What would you expect from a good farm system?

by tarakas on Dec 5, 2010 4:38 PM EST

I have tried to list what the Cardinals farm system has produced since 2003--a period of 8 years. This gets tricky, because someone like Wainwright can be seen as a product of the Braves system, and someone like Gregerson could be seen as a Cardinal. I'll put an asterisk next to be people who started in another organization.

I decided to list only players getting at least 1000 plate appearances in the majors or pitching 150 innings. Thus Josh Kinney and Bo Hart, sadly, do not make the cut.

Position players: Molina, Ryan, Schumaker, Duncan, *Ludwick, Rasmus

Pitchers: Haren, Reyes, *Wainwright, Narverson, Garcia, Mclellan, Boggs, Perez, Thompson, Gregerson

Feel free to let me know if I missed anyone.

I assume Motte and Jay will make the list before their careers are over. I'm sure some will make a case for Craig and Freese eventually making it.

We could make a study of this (I may in a few weeks when I have the time), and see how this compares to other teams, such as in WAR. I'm guessing it is well below average--particularly in position players. It would be a big help if other can make similar lists for other organizations we can use as a reference.

Any thoughts?

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I don't get how you...

can assess the Cardinals’ farm system while simultaneously excluding Pujols, Freese, Jay, Craig, Wallace, Boggs, Motte etc… Why exclude all those very valuable players?

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Dec 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST reply actions

Because they haven't met an arbitrary number of PAs or IP

I would suggest to list everyone that has appeared in a Major League game instead of limiting PAs or IP.

Always late to the party

by Skips OCD on Dec 5, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions

Because I was sorting for people who had made a significant contribution

So we produced Jason Simontachi, Josh Kinney, and Bo Hart. Who frikkin cares?

I was looking for people with significant major league playing time.

I actually included Boggs. He qualifies. It doesn’t take much.

Freese, Craig, etc. We don’t know if they will be significant players or not. Freese and Craig may never get to 1000 PA.

I measured the last 8 years. Who the farm system was producing 9 years ago does not seem terribly relevant as to whether it has been productive lately.

You have to have a cutoff someplace. I mean, if you were rating the Yankees, how much credit should the current farm system get for Jeter and Rivera? Would you say, “See, we signed Mariano Rivera in 1990. Our farm system is doing great!”

by tarakas on Dec 5, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions

I would LOVE to see a systematic study of this

Especially something like going back and looking at the farm system rankings from an org like Baseball America from 2006, 2007, etc and seeing how the guys they rated highly turned out.

Also, I would say that AW is a product of our system, since we drafted JD drew and traded him for AW, and AW is still inside the 6 years of original team control guaranteed by the CBA. OTOH, I wouldn’t include, say, Matt Holliday, since even though we traded drafted talent for him, we signed him to an extension at market value. But that’s all based on pretty arbitrary definitions.

As far as guys you missed, the complete list of players who got 500+ PA’s with the cardinals in the last 8 years is here. AFAICT, you only missed Taguchi and Ankiel. Pitchers with 150+ IP are listed here- think you got everyone, but someone else can double check (my eyes are a bit fried).

by SleepyCA on Dec 5, 2010 7:48 PM EST reply actions