The Further Discussion of All Things Thread
by the red baron on Dec 1, 2010 3:21 PM EST
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PrintPlease forgive me, folks, but things have come up at work I have to deal with, and I'm just not going to be able to put together a full post for today. Yesterday's thread is bursting at the seams, though (and, I'm sure, messing with your load times something fierce), so here's an open thread to get you through until tomorrow.
I published my own thoughts about the Ryan Theriot deal yesterday over at the RFT; spoiler alert: I don't much care for it. Unfortunately, this team continues making decisions day after day without asking my opinion first, so it seems like this sort of thing is just going to keep happening.
Juan Uribe is off the market, Orlando Hudson is still out there, Cliff Lee may stay a Ranger, and Jacoby Ellsbury may be on the block. Discuss whatever you like. I do apologise again for this shoddy substitute for real content, but that's just how it is today. Have a nice rest of your Wednesday.
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Damn you RB......
I know and respect that you’re in a hurry, but no play list?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
RR's playlist for 12/1
Violent Femmes – Country Death Song
Pearl Jam – Black
Led Zepplin – Boogie with Stu
Neil Young – Cow Girl in the Sand
Bob Dylan – Hurricane
Sublime – Doin Time
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Dec 1, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Love Cowgirl in the Sand
One of my all-time favorite Neil songs.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 1, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Just for you.
“The Blizzard” – Johnny Cash
“The Blizzard” – Camera Obscura
“Spy Who Loved Moose” – Bentley Rhythm Ace
“Celebrate” – Dark Dark Dark
“Maniac Melody” – Howie B
“My Shining Hour” – John Coltrane
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Dec 2, 2010 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
I wish something would come up at work that I'd have to deal with.
Instead, I’m counting the numerous misspellings of “Theriot” on Cards Talk and reading theories about what NASA’s Astrobiology News Conference will reveal tomorrow.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
boog is an alien
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
by sportsman on Dec 1, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Second 2nd Option
I want Eckstein back. Is there anything crazy about that. I think he’s a free agent and he’s familiar with the Club. (World Series MVP) I think he would be great.
Are you kidding me?
I don’t even know if you’re trolling us anymore
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i've never been a troll, for one thing
and why the hell you guys always jump on me drives me crazy. i know i’m pessimistic, but you guys drive me crazy sometimes. am i not entitled to an opinion without someone bitching at me? if you want me out of here, then just say it already, and i’ll go.
/end rant
hey Mo: theriot at 2B, boog at SS.
How would bringing Eckstein back solve anything?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
he gets along with TLR
so TLR will be in a Good Mood, and will therefore drink less in between innings, and will therefore make better decisions in late and close situations/extra innings games.
Simple logic- that’s gotta be worth at least one win, maybe several.
...i seriously get lumped in with this kid? seriously?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 1, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
tell us more, zoomzoomj88
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
So, what teams might be interested in getting Brendan Ryan?
Since it’s almost a foregone conclusion now he’s going to be traded.
Maybe there’s a GM out there who actually values, or even better overvalues, great SS defense and will give us something awesome in return. That’s about the only thing that might make me not hate this stupid Theriot fiasco.
Would the Rays be a legitimate possibility?
Reports have the Cardinals still interested in Bartlett and at this point in time, the Rays are planning on using Brignac at Shortstop next season.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Dec 1, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Bartlett/Theriot is literally no better than Boog/Skip
Not worth the trades required to acquire them, anyways
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I agree with you to a certain extent.
Having said that, I just wanted to throw out a possible trade partner that Mo might be considering.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Dec 1, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Billy Beane
would value somebody like Brendan Ryan, a plus defender undervalued by the market, and especially his present club.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Dec 1, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
They've already got their own version of Brendan Ryan
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Cliff Pennington?
The guy worth 3.7fWAR last year (to Ryan’s 1WAR)? I guess he’s a “version” of Ryan in that he does play SS and also was a good defender last year. Of course, if our version put up a 3.7fWAR last year, we wouldn’t be talking about him being traded.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 1, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
And we all see the fruits of success. . .
that have come from the A’s turn to defense as the new OBP (i.e. the most undervalued attribute).
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
There's a lot of value to gain from accurately quantifying defense. It's EASILY the most misunderstood aspect of baseball left
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Disagree
It’s considered by most people at this point I think. The most misunderstood aspect left at this point is baserunning IMO.
Not afraid to nitpick
Of course it's considered, but there's SO much debate over UZR that it's tough to accurately gauge how a player field next year based on his past few years of UZR
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Right
But people are at least trying to value defense. I at least haven’t heard a single discussion on Carl Crawford’s worth based on his ability to take the extra base (and not just steals). There’s the BPro stats, but who knows how accurate those are.
Not afraid to nitpick
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6760
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I don't disagree with your point. . .
but I suspect that I disagree with the way that you would apply it.
If Billy Beane is accurately quantifying the worth of defense, then he’s doing something else horribly wrong; the A’s haven’t finished over .500 since 2006.
I would go so far as to say that he’s overvaluing the worth of defense, something that I fear that we are all doing with respect to Boog.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
The A's are at a certain disadvantage
They don’t have the payroll to compete with the big guys
They’re also not so bad (possibly because of Beane’s effectiveness) that they accrue several years of high draft picks, as the Rays and Giants did
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
They don't have the payroll because
they do a lousy job of marketing. I get very tired of hearing A’s apologists whinge about how Oakland is blue-collar, no money, etc. There is plenty of money closer to their stadium than about half of the Cardinals “local” fan base is to Busch.
If they ever start acting like they’re serious about competing, who knows, they might even pull in enough fans that they would do so.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 1, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Well I was talking from Billy Beane's perspective. The A's owner is making bank.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
the orioles?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
The classic no-hit SS pipeline from STL to BAL
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Am I wrong to think of them as the least fun team in baseball?
Would he even be allowed to wear the high socks and do impressions? They just seem so sad. (Qualifier: I know NOTHING about the Orioles.)
by peach concrete on Dec 1, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Buck would allow very much goofing off.
Always late to the party
They came a long way from St. Louie
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 1, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
There was an article in yesterdays SF Chronicle
Listing all the shortstops that would be available either for trade or FA and his name was not amount them. I take that ad somewhat of a good sign that maybe he’ll stay sn Theriot will play 2nd base ? I think he was not good at it so that’s probably where TLR will put him.
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 1, 2010 4:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Spellcheck fail
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 1, 2010 4:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seattle would be willing to get a competent shortstop that is defensive wizard
However, that said, don’t expect much in return. Minus a few interesting pitching prospects, Dustin Ackley and some miscellaneous others they probably won’t give up, nothing of interest exists in their system
Seattle needs to hold onto its young talent right now
I don’t think they’re going to swap anything of value for a question mark like the Boogster.
Oooooh man I'd love to see Boog on the Mariners
There are some interesting names that the Mariners don’t really value. Greg Halman comes to mind. Strikes out a TON, but the tools and the numbers are there
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
They have a back up catcher for us, too.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Already read an abundance of commentary
about how having Theriot as the everyday shortstop is a bad idea. But, I have not heard anyone discuss the trade itself. Am I the only one that thinks this is a great trade for MO?? He essentially traded last years version of Brad Thompson for a very serviceable infielder. Yes, there are downsides to this considering Tony will probably start him as the everyday shortstop. But that doesn’t mean it was a bad trade at all.
If they use Theriot as "New Aaron Miles"
it will be a great trade in my opinion. That would be an upgrade in the utility infield role while not giving up much of anything that cant be easily replaced by the farm system. If Theriot gets 500 PA as the Cards SS it will be a blow to the team and pitching staff.
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
by nomar34 on Dec 1, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 1, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's a pretty good trade, value wise
But the reasoning behind it is terrible. If Theriot were replacing/platooning with Skip, then yeah, it’d be fine. That’s not the case
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
The trade itself was fine......
I have a problem,with the team paying 6 million dollars for 2 Skip Schumakers.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Mo seems to do that.
A seemingly innocuous trade for all the wrong reasons.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 1, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
+1 to you and rui
theriot should not be the starting SS, platooning there with boog if anything. theriot should be the starting 2B. don’t know what mo values in skip and NOT in boog….
hey Mo: theriot at 2B, boog at SS.
Skip has some nebulous quality that TLR likes.
I believe it’s commonly referred to as “grit.” Also, Skip is going to cost $2.7 million, and is a below-league average defender and was a below-league average hitter last season. He’s the tougher piece to move.
i'd much rather have a boog at SS-theriot at 2B then theriot-skip
it just sucks that boog is gonna probably be gone when he didn’t really deserve to get the heave-ho
hey Mo: theriot at 2B, boog at SS.
In Skip's defense,
Boog was nigh-apocalyptically bad with the bat last year. His downard spiral never stopped. Skip, on the other hand, managed to sort of stanch the bleeding in the second half, and going forward, he looks more likely to regress to something approaching acceptable offensive output. If the avowed purpose of the MIF moves is to increase offensive performance, then then better person to move is Ryan.
Not saying I necessarily agree with the reasoning, but that’s likely some part of the though process that’s going on in the FO.
if that's the reasoning, the reasoning is teh stupid.
when you pick a player, you don’t get to isolate just his defense or just his offense. you buy the total player. so the total value should be considered.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
I don't disagree.
But Mo has said, multiple times, that they want more offense out of the middle infield. Theriot+Skip is likely to be better, offensively, next season than Skip+Ryan. As such, the FO has taken a step towards meeting their goal.
And our league leading pitcjing staff,
will pay the price of the GIANT FUCKING SUCKHOLE that our MIF will be.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
well, then, he should sign adam dunn and put him at SS. that will maximize our offensive value there.
it will be a problem when both adam wainwright and chris carpenter announces they have a bad case of the flu in march that will last through october.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Look, Tom, I like Boog too. I hope this move was part of some giant machination that leads to Skip leaving,
Boog at short, Hudson at second, Theriot at a Super-U guy, and, since we’re going with absurdly extreme examples now, Tim Lincecum somehow making his way to STL .
I think, though, that the FO is entitled to make the decision that they want to boost offensive output and are willing to sacrifice defense to do so. They have access to the same information we do – they’re not missing some giant well of knowledge. Clearly, they’ve decided that, in light of all the existing factors, performance-, contract- and personality-based, that Skip is the favored middle infielder. Maybe they’re just tired of Brendan’s seeming ADD, and they love Skip’s “I’ll do whatever they ask,” mentality so much that they’e tired of Brendan. One of the biggest problems the team had last year was the offense sputtering. Removing the weakest bat from that lineup, “teh stupid” or not, is one viable way to go about changing that.
numbers... not.... adding up.... must stop.... hand... of...death....
j/k
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
then the front office is wrong. they're allowed to do whatever they like. i'm allowed to point out
its stupidity.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Why am I even trying to defend an estimation I disagree with?
I agree, by any total performance-based evaluation, that Boog beats Skip. I simply disagree that concluding something is “stupid” may be unwarranted when we’re aware that evaluations aren’t made on a purely performance-driven basis.
if they're not evaluating based on performance
that is stupid.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
but if Pujols and LaRussa and Molina
can’t stand the guy because they think his head isn’t in the game…well, maybe it’s hard for us to judge how stupid ditching Ryan would be.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
it would be nice if they did their jobs
and not someone else’s job.
I say it right now: they are not going to win diddly-squat if their idea of team construction is “whoever we like.”
no player is above the game. if there’s a bunch of players just calling the shots, regardless of the actual on-field evaluation, who’s running this team? is it just their little man stew club? I want the best players on the field. I don’t frickin’ care if they all get along or not. I don’t get to magically choose my co-workers, even if I’ve got the most production.
now, if there’s something else Brendan did that crossed the line, okay then. we’ve had those players. we lost one of those players. I just personally find it hard to believe; if something had happened to that extent, everyone would know in five minutes. (e.g. we immediately knew about the mini-cam drama, because they mentioned it on air.)
footnote thing. it’s interesting that most people forget … the reason Brendan Ryan forgot his glove when Carp was pitching, was because he was spending extra time in the batting cages.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 1, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, but. . .
I don’t think that defensive value is so readily quantifiable as offensive value. Throwing around defensive WAR and acting that it is as reliable an indicator of value as offensive WAR, as many posters here often do, is in my opinion wrong-headed.
Defensive stats are good enough to tell you generally how good a player is defensively relative to his peers at a position, but I don’t think they should be treated as a precise measure of value.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
there's a difference between not relying on precise value, and refusing to recognize that boog is one of the
best defensive middle infielders in the game, while skip is one of the worst.
i don’t think that there’s any question that skip is much, much worse than brendan ryan under almost any evaluation of defense. even stat-skeptics agree on that.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
It's not a matter of precision
I agree that Boog is a much, much better defender than Skip.
Theriot and Skip are each better offensive players than Boog.
The question is whether Boog’s defensive advantage is worth more to the Cardinals than Skip’s offensive advantage over Boog. (It’s a bit more complicated than that because of the ability to play Theriot at either 2B or SS, but you get the drift.)
I don’t think defensive metrics have advanced to the point where you can accurately answer the question.
Boog is somewhere between a very good and transcendent SS defensively. He is a well-below average hitter.
Skippy is somewhere between atrocious and merely awful defensively. He has been a slightly above-average hitter, but had a below average 2010 with the bat and has a distrubing trendline.
The Riot is somewhere between below average and slightly above average as a defensive SS. Like Skip, he has been, on balance, a slighlty above-average hitter, with more variability than Skip, but had a below average 2010 with the bat and a distrubing trendline.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
ok, i'm going to show you two sets of numbers
Set A:
[ -0.3/3.1/8.4/11.5// -2.3/1.0/-3.8/-2.5/-11.3/-13.2//0.0/0.6/3.6/1.7/3.7/4.7]
Set B:
[2.6/-8.5/-0.4/-23.8//-0.9/-5.2/4.1/8.1/5.6/-7.5//-1.5/10.7/-13.9/1.1/-10.1/-19.7]
any thoughts on which ones look more stable?
the key is this: Set A is the defensive run value above average of Ryan//Schumaker//Theriot by year. Set B is the offensive run value.
There are huge swings from year to year in defensive value (note, in skippy’s case, the last two figures —11.3 and -13.2 are when he’s at second). There are also huge swings in offensive value; if anything bigger. i don’t know that it’s really much more challenging to say what someone’s defensive value is versus their offensive value. skippy looks like he’s generally above average, but not by much, and ryan looks like he’s generally below average by (again, eyeballing) 5 to 10 runs.
if you weight brendan ryan’s value by playing time, it’s probably wrong to find a fixed number and claim exact value (e.g., brendan ryan is worth exactly 8 runs above average!), but it’s not wrong to say that he’s worth probably between 5-10 runs per year on defense. similarly, given skippy’s substantial negative scores at second (i think it’s fair to disregard his offensive scores), it’s probably fair to say that he’s around 10 runs below average - could be -12, could be -8, but in that area.
given the positional adjustment, it’s quite clear that ryan is more valuable than skippy, by any reasonable estimation.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Dec 1, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let's Not Forget....
….that there are times when he looses it, both with the bat and the glove. Overall Boog is a great SS with excellent range, but he is young and can be incowsistant at times. Let’s not over-lionize him because we like him. I like him too, I’d prefer he stay, but he may be able to get us something back we need moore. The question is do we have faith that the Cards FO can swing a good deal for Boog? That’s what I am hesitant about. The Riot’s addition isn’t inspiring a lot of bravado with this cow. The moore I think about it the moore I wonder about packaging Boog with, say, JJ to the Sawks for prospects or a starter. They are looking for an outfielder, and they are not guaranteed to get eitherr Werth or Crawford.
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
that happened once, and there were a lot of catastrophic circumstances leading up to that
like the two bases he could have gotten in the Philly game, thanks umps.
prove to me the circumstances are repeatable! wrist surgery, shortened spring training, and changing his swing every five minutes! prove it!
it’s all fine to look at the numbers, but remember where they came from. this is not a trend, it’s an outlier.
(and no, I am not over-lionizing him. I know he’s not going to have huge offensive upside. but generalizing from small sample sizes makes no sense either.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the other thing is, in 2009, every mistake he made was corrected.
compare with Freese’s bare-handing antics coupled with his unsure footwork. Brendan did something fairly extraordinary in that he corrected every mistake by the next game. (save baserunning, but he still ended up on the leaderboard there.)
is that going to hold up? I don’t know. but they don’t just magically Not Exist.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and he does't HAVE to have huge offensive upside
He’s a better defender than pennington, and pennington was worth 3.7 fWAR with a .687 OPS. It’s entirely reasonable to expect something like a .700 OPS out of Ryan next year, imho.
Lots of PD innunedo about how teammates want to "gone" Boog. Anyone know how accurate this notion is?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
it goes like this every time
strauss says it → all stl media jumps on the bandwaggon just so they don’t miss a potential sensation → it gets really ugly if fespn picks up on it → turns out to be overblown, taken out of context, or plain fabricated → everyone moves on as if it never happened
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
can you give me an example
of when something joe strauss reported was just plain fabricated. i appear to have missed it. if it actually happened, i may want to adjust my opinion of his credibility
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Dec 1, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm rather outside the loop, is the thinking that Strauss is something of trial balloon buffoon for the Cards' management?
If so, what is to be gained by bad-mouthing Boog? Those disparaging words diminish what limited trade value Ryan has. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
see: Colby Rasmus.
stirring the pot can use the truth too, guys. to this day there are still teams inquiring about Colby when the original matter was likely resolved within the week.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it's his job to report things
there wasn’t anything untrue about the colby situation. he even got quotes from colby. how was not supposed to report it?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
misrepresented how?
intentionally, or because he didn’t have all the facts? He is a sportswriter and is never going to have all the facts, because he isn’t inside the clubhouse 24/7. At some point, he’s gotta go with what he’s got. I think he’s a lousy reporter with a paucity of writing talent, so I don’t care for him. But I would hesitate to accuse him of dishonesty.
intentionally.
HE left out the fact that Albert sat next to Colby on the flight out of town that night and apologized for overreacting to the rumors about what had been said. That fact didn’t come to light until weeks later.
well then, leaving relevant facts out
just to craft a juicy narrative is dishonest, and I can’t defend him for that (except maybe the meager, uninspired defense that reporters have to sell papers, and are realistically going to take some liberties to emphasize the facts in a way that makes the story more intriguing. But completely leaving facts out is different, I guess)
leaving out parts of the truth = lying = fabrication
let’s not mince it, yo.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
wasn't that well after he published the story?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
there was the initial story
that was published months after the “trade request”, and then there were the follow-on stuff.
The “albert apologizing on the airplane” didn’t come out until much later, although it happened the same day the story came out.
that's the third time today
i’ve had to look up the definition of a word used in a baseball context
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I read a chat by him
Where he almost literally said, “Everyone in the organization says that the situation is resolved and that he won’t be traded. Obviously, he’s going to be available.”
Nope
Strauss says things that are unpleasant, and people have decided he does so only so that he can became famous. As if he shouldn’t have broke the Colby-trade-snafu story.
Anyway, clearly he’s making up the fact that many of his teammates don’t like Ryan. Obviously Pujols’ across the infield glares were done so out of love.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
i've seen pujols angrily yell at molina during a game
and molina yelling just as angrily back
your point is moot
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
But she gets props for using the correct word.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
As opposed to
mute?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 1, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Than
Than!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 1, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
it's a good trade in a vacuum. Mo got something of marginal value
for something with no real value to this team. But unfortunately, trades don’t happen in a vacuum—and if the consequence of this trade is a Theriot-Schumaker MIF, then it’s regrettable.
That last sentence is a real kick to the nuts.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 1, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
So would anyone else like to see
Holliday in LF, Ellsbury in CF, and Rasmus in right?
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
unsubscribe...
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
'druther have Berkman/Craig in LF, Rasmus in CF, and Holliday in RF
Rasmus is probably better than Ellsbury in CF anyways
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I dunno
Ellsbury has been banged up, but when he’s healthy he’s got incredible range. He could potentially be a top of the order guy. And Rasmus’s bat plays better in a corner OF spot than his does.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Could he play second?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 1, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I dont know
but the Giants are looking for a LH first baseman…#VEB2008
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
if you have rasmus and ellsbury in the PF
who cares whose bat plays better where? put the better of the two in CF. colby is clearly the better of the two
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
dont think you land jacoby
without using raz..
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
Also: Having two Coby's would drive TLR nuts
'Hold my stones!'
"Ernie Hayes is up there playing with his organ again." - Mike Shannon
That alone makes me want it to happen.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I think Cox
and some sort of pu pu platter could maybe get him. Possibly if you took on Papelbons contract.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
That's a terrible trade then
You’re not paying for Ellsbury; you’re paying for the marginal upgrade from Jay/Craig to Ellsbury, which if at ALL, is not much
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Ellsbury isn't that expensive though.
He still has a few more seasons of team control if I remember correctly. I mean Papelbon kind of sucks, but he’d still be better than someone were going to trot out of the bullpen next season.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Did you even read my post?
I don’t paying him money, I mean paying prospects
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Thats why I said a Cox(or a Cox like prospect, should have been more specific) like prospect
And some garbage.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Okay, I feel like we're going nowhere
You are willing to give up Cox + Prospects to obtain Jacoby Ellsbury (who is not a marked improvement over Craig/Jay) AND pay Papelbon?
Dude I’m sorry but that’s idiotic
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I mean if your sold on Jay replicating his success
Then keep him. I’m not sold on him.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
That's not even my point
How much of an upgrade is Ellsbury over a Craig/Jay platoon?
Is that upgrade worth a Top-30 prospect and Papelbon’s contract? (and that’s assuming the Sox feel like Papelbon is expendable, which is another story)
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
He'd be a decent bet for 3-4 WAR
so it would be a 1-2 win upgrade over Jay/Craig, most likely. Possibly more.
I don’t know if that is worth Cox, but it would be worth something.
i'll keep cox at that price
tyvm
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
in bed
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
this is a quality conversation
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
You mean the part where I repeated myself 5 times?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
all i know
is that i z’d and i laughed and it was good
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
in what sense does papelbon "kind of suck"? nathan, soria, rivera . . . what other relievers offer more value than
papelbon? papelbon’s problem is not that he “kind of sucks,” it’s that he’ll be very expensive.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Sucks is to harsh
But his numbers have gotten worse every season.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
he's been worth at least 2 wins every season except 2010. he was top ten among relievers in value in 2009.
he was #2 behind rivera in 2008 in value. it’s not “too harsh.” it’s dead wrong.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
ugh. what kind of value are you seriously expecting from ellsbury?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Something between his 2008 and 2009 seasons.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
so like 3 wins? cox is a top-flight prospect. you want to trade a guy who's likely to be worth something like
$30m in excess value to the club in order to gain a win or so in RF? no.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
I don't think he's even a win better than Craig/Jay
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I've got .8 War for Jay and Craig has nuetral WAR wise
He’s actually -0.1 so Yea I think Ellsbury would be an upgrade. Sue me.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
...you're using their 2010 stats. You realize Jacoby had a -.2 WAR last year, right?
I’m not saying Jacoby won’t be an upgrade. Is that upgrade worth the package of prospects you want to give up? There is not a single GM in the entire world that will not accept that trade IMMEDIATELY
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Yea
Baseball reference has him at -.4 for last season.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
what is this i don't even
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/ellsbja01.shtml
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
keep it coming, guy
mysterui doesn’t get it
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Dec 1, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for lulz
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
both jay and craig are going to regress, but craig in a positive direction, jay in a negative one.
craig has a bill james projection for a .350 wOBA, jay .326. ellsbury: .349.
just eyeballing that, i read jay/craig as a 2 win combo. call ellsbury 3 wins. it’s a meaning ful difference, but not worth giving up cox.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
wow
i like the way bill james likes allen craig?
.350 would be amazing
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
bill james disagrees
and correctly points out that there’s not really been any data to support the claim
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I have a couple anecdotes to support it
Anyway, let’s change the subject to something I’m not wrong about.
granted
his support for it was mainly anecdotal. all he really said was that he rigorously reviews the projections every year and that his data does not indicate being overly optimistic
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
It could just be that he's as optimistic as other projections are pessimistic?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
if i had the time/desire
i’d try to do some half-assed analysis to see if there were any trends to be noticed in the major projection systems
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
for the record, i'm not in love with the bill james projections.
the other ones just aren’t out yet.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
well, i haven't seen it
that it means it doesn’t exist!
i was going off what bill james said. got a link? i would be interested in reading
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
There are a couple of studies at THT
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/article/the-crazy-bill-james-projections/
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/article/the-thought-process-behind-the-bill-james-system/
And I’m sure there are more on InsideTheBook.com, which you can search for.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
The two links
support Bill James’ position and essentially make fun of anecdotal internet comments saying that James’ projections are overly optimistic.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 1, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Nope
They say that Bill James projects a higher baseline, which necessarily means that every single projection from him is going to be optimistic.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
read the articles again...
and note the context part.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 1, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
I did note that
It doesn’t disqualify my point. While James’ individual projections may not be optimistic compared to his baseline, they are all optimistic compared to other projection systems and reality.
Oh, and hey, I found another link:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/are_bill_james_forecasts_optimistic/
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
i read it
it’s not saying james is inherently optimistic. just saying it’s optimistic relative to the other projection system. what i would like to see is someone actually measure how accurate all the systems were at projecting the players and see if james actually is systematically optimistic
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I'm trying to find that on InsideTheBook
I know there was a thread where someone showed James’ projections were optomistic.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 2, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
this?
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/bill_james_speaks/#3
i think this issue is addressed in the second THT article you posted
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
the first one
is arguing against the claim that bill james is optimistic
the second one is an explanation of why the james porjection system has a higher run environment. i don’t see how that would really affect rate stats, though. for pitchers, sure, but a .350 wOBA is the same in 5 PAs as it is in 600
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
an excellent strategy, sir
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You and mob16151 need to
get smaller sigs, sheesh!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 1, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind seeing
Ellsbury in left or right. Rasmus will not be displaced as the CF.
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
yeah, I don't get why you'd move Ras out of CF
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 1, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
so that means RF is off limits
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 1, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
sounds like a great reason to put him in RF, then
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Typically you want your best outfield arm in right
By this logic, all signs point to somebody falling outside of the category “girl”
wat
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 1, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
The increased popularity of "wat" as a reply on the internets is my favorite phenomenon of the 21st century
It says so much while saying so little
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I know it's early in the 21st century. . .
but favorite phenomenon?
Wow.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
So there's thing called hyperbole
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
wat?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
You're doin it wrong
No question mark
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
dammit. again, i am not as cool as the cool kids.
it’s like middle school all over again.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Doh!
Hope I got that right, including the exclamation mark.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 1, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
The greatest literary device of all time.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
OF ALL TIME.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Meh
I’m an alliteration man, myself. To each his own.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
...You're not on top of your game today, are you?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
That's not what your mom said last night.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Actually, I am. . .
I just don’t have a very high ceiling, kind of like Boog’s offense.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
So
sibilance sucks?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 1, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
If this happens
I will start referring to our outfield collective as “The Jacolby Ellsbury Legohead.” They are a combination of individuals into a single entity. They are one.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Scratch that
Jacolby Rasberry Legohead is even better.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Dec 1, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ellsbury's middle name is McCabe
Can you work that in somewhere.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Majacolby Rasberryday
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 1, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
will there be a line of breakfast muffins?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The true reason Colby's so laconic
is that it hurts to talk, since his cereal always scrapes up the roof of his mouth.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I hate to be "that guy" and I LOVE Raz and hope he is here to stay...
but could you imagine how insufferable he and his dad COULD be if he got moved to RF?
Isn't this the majors now?
Why the hell does the opinion of a player’s dad have any value anymore? It’s not high school
(Be gentle, I’m new here and might have missed something regarding this reference)
No.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 1, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
someone please check Mozeliak's head
cause that thing seems to be malfunctioning big time
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
by d-dee on Dec 1, 2010 3:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm curious if there's a "they know something we don't" thing going on here.
It’s not like the FO is unaware of the concepts of regression and defensive value. They’ve certainly got people there that dedicate even more to thinking about these things than we do. I’ve got to wonder if there’s some clubhouse issue that Ryan causes or if he’s just impossible with which to deal personally, or something. I suppose there’s no way to really know the answer to that, though.
Ryan and Mather's pilot was accepted by MTV
and they’ve both quietly chosen to retire?
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Dec 1, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
not before he gets to pitch.
but yah, I am quietly worried about the x factor that the press isn’t privy to.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's considered a clubhouse asset, actually.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 1, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
And sound effects for interviews.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 1, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
What could they possibly "know" about Ryan?
Even if he hits as bad as last year he’s still as good as Skip, and probably Theriot. And there’s no way he hits as bad as last year.
The appeal to the authority card could work if we’re dealing with the Rays or Sox FO here, but no way in hell it works with the “Mo who signed Lohse to a 4 year 41 million dollar deal” front office.
It should be uncontroversial that this entire situation is based off of wrongheaded thinking by the front office.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
this.
I find it amazing that Mo is willing to bet $4M, plus a young pitcher, that Theriot bounces back (at age 31) from a .286 wOBA season (with inferior defense to the incumbent). It’s like he has no concept of the price of risk.
Guy has a career wOBA of .307, with an elevated BABIP. He may have a dead-cat-bounce left in him, but at the price he’s gonna go for, and the amount of risk involved, Theriot is a dangerous choice. This is basically the opposite of the Felipe Lopez deal from last year.
Fire TLR if he can’t get along with the ozzie smith of 2010.
no, I think firing Tony would take care of most of the problems this team has
even ones among the players
I'm not sure about that 100%
but it is Tony who lets the veterans run the clubhouse. every ex-player will mention that.
there was a recent story where he sent a coach to give a player a hug. ‘cause, y’know. his own chances of success wouldn’t be good.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"It’s not like the FO is unaware of the concepts of regression and defensive value."
You’d be surpised how stupid most baseball people are.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Except that we KNOW that the Cardinals have Sig Mejdal in a position of power
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
They also have Girsch and Luhnow
Somehow, Aaron Miles, Pedro Feliz and Nick Stavinoha each got 100 PA for this team last year.
I have serious doubts as to the amount of influence that very bright minds in the Cardinals FO have.
Oh I just read what I was replying to
I… have no argument with what you said. My statement just kind of stands on its own
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
he doesn't need to hide
the entire BCB is already laughing at us
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
If we're concerned about BCB laughing at us.
We’re really, really sad.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
The Cubs can't laugh at us
until we extend Theriot for 6 years at 20 per, then move him to the bullpen. Their own coach last season decided that watching someone slowly die was preferable to going to Cubs games.
by mattyp on Dec 1, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
wat
I’ve got to quit doing that.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
i was wondering when you'd arrive
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yesterday when i heard about the trade
i thought okay, we could have had him for free later on but whatever, at least someone figured out that Skip’s ass needs to be put on the bench at least half the season, bravo Mo
and then i read the he’s-our-starting-shortstop-as-of-now bullshit and i just lost it. i mean what stupefying moronic loyalty are you keeping mo, and to whom???
who in their right fuckin mind goes for ryan theriot now? not only that, a 31 year-old 2.6 mil ryan theriot! so he can play short??? really? because we don’t pitch to contact and we don’t have a stellar defensive ss, but we have a stellar 2B already… Mo does know his new purchase can play second, right? i mean, we really need to check if he does
just seeing theriot in a photoshopped stl hat makes me want to hurl. his stl hat coming at the expense of boog makes me want to rage. someone better disinfect him before he arrives
first the lohse contract, then no extension for albert, then bidding against ourselves for holliday, then miles and feliz and soup, then ludwick, then marty mason, then the tlr extension, then skip, then this i mean come the fuck on! get SOMETHING right, mo, will ya?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
by d-dee on Dec 1, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
so you haven't stabbed anyone in the previous thread?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It was to crowded for stabbing?
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
actually that's when you go for multiple casualties
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i am just too dumfounded to do anything
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Have a drink.
It helps.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
that will be some looooong ass idiotic infuriating frustrating 4 months
why does our fo want me to hate baseball?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
i'm just not a fan of stupidity
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Heh
Same here!
I pretty much am frustrated about all the things you are frustrated about, just not as intensely I think.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
only people with real live friends and other hobbies would say that
you normalo you
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
by d-dee on Dec 1, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually
I’m OK with the Ludwick trade, and don’t know enough about Marty Mason to care too much about it. But yeah, I’m starting to lose faith in MO. Although, if Straussicorn’s hintings are to be believed, the Ryan thing may have been unavoidable. If there truly was some huge rift between him and other more important people in the team/org, then that makes the situation very different. We can defer to on-the-field arguments all we want, but at some point it just becomes untenable to keep an employee around who creates interpersonal problems that can’t be resolved.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Still
That doesn’t explain why we aren’t trying as hard to replace Schu! Come on, man.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
again
if strauss’ words are to be believed, skip is entirely in play. but i can understand prioritizing the bad player with clubhouse problems over the bad player who is well respected
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Oh, are there development that I missed?
I didn’t really know anything specifically about upgrading 2B yet, just some rumbling about Hudson, and I couldn’t remember if that was a rumor or not.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's in the Theriot story.
Paraphrasing Mozeliak:
“Theriot’s versatile. If there’s a chance to upgrade the left side further, then Theriot moves to the right side.”
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Ahhh
Coolness. I hope y’all forgive me for not wanting to wade all the way through Strauss… I was trying to piece together the important parts.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Strauss buried that pretty deep.
Pertinent paragraphs:
Schumaker now represents a potential variable. La Russa still supports Schumaker at second base, but other quarters in the organization believe his versatility may enhance his value. The next several weeks probably will determine his role.
“It allows us some flexibility there, because obviously Theriot can play second or short,” Mozeliak said. “If … there is another player out there who allows us some flexibility on the left side, then it does allow us to move Theriot to the right side. It’s hard to say what that next move will look like.”
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Cool, thanks for digging on my behalf
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
mainly
it’s just something to the effect of “expect another move” and “theriot’s ability to play SS or 2B leaves open the possibilty for acquiring a 2B, SS or 3B.” he posited that if it’s a 2B, skip would likely be dealt. but he didn’t indicate that was anything more than his personal opinion. the “expect another move for an infielder” thing appears to have come from a club source
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Proof that Mozeliak isn't trying hard to replace Skip?
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
It just hasn't been talked about as much, so I'm assuming here
I guess I should have put that in subjunctive… that wouldn’t explain why we wouldn’t replace Skip. Better.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Better.
Otherwise, it’s kinda like saying that because there has been no news about it, Pujols and St. Louis aren’t working on an extension.
Goold mocked that situation yesterday by comparing it to the Jeter negotiations.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
I have been trying not to over-interpret the admitted preference
that MO stated for upgrading SS over 2B, but I guess I went and did it anyway.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i think it'll be another bait and switch
get theriot to justify kicking out boog and then putting theriot on 2b to sit skip down.
too bad we can’t financially afford to play any of those little games if there would be a pujols extension
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
The fact that Theriot is our starting shortstop
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
you's just bein' silly, now
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
But c'mon, they addressed the shortstop "problem" before the second base PROBLEM
And have spent 3 million doing so.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
it appears
that there was more of a problem with brendan ryan than just his defense which made the GM feel that he had to go
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
and by defense i mean on-field production
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
In other words
Strauss thinks something, you listen.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
yes, but can i add to it
strauss says something, i use my faculty of reason to assess it in the context of the situation and decide that it’s a more likely explanation than “john mozeliak, long time, heavy supporter of brendan ryan miraculously and suddenly has no faith in him to the point that he sacrifices leverage by telling the media that he plans to trade ryan.”
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I can do that too!
Joe Strauss → full of shit, I don’t take anything he says without a massive grain of salt.
John Mozeliak → the perfect combination of bad and pussy. Routinely makes bad decisions and defers to La Russa.
Brendan Ryan → good player hated by La Russa because TLR.
Skip Schumaker → bad player loved by La Russa because TLR.
I think you can sum it up from here.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
if you're going to leap to conclusions without looking at 100% of the available information
you’re going to come up with some unreasonable reasons.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
aaah
Yeah vivaelpujols, you are right, Strauss just made up the “important players have a problem with Brendan thing”. Also, TLR dislikes him because he is an old coot.
I’m glad you’re brave enough to beat this drum, and to do so in such a not condescending prickish tone.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
sarcastically calling someone condescending and prickish
a rarely used strategy
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 1, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
i'm google image searching for a funny image with "hipster troll" as keywords
nothing applicable, but it’s kinda surreal
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 1, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
what i don't get is is why everyone should assume
strauss is always being told the truth
or is being told anything instead of him just making/interpreting own observations
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
i'm amazed he gets so many Pujols scoops when Pujols despises him so.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ot
lol
i’m on a site where someone’s username is dienemutter.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So
You’re gonna have to explain
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
your mom
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
by Shi on Dec 1, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
in bed
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Lets hug it out.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
in bed
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
It will fall out of favor in like 2 more days
for something even more absurd, if it’s any consolation.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I'm lobbying for a glorious return of "chickenbutt"
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I was so much younger then...
you’re right! those were glorious days!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Those memories are flooding back to me
Kids being obsessed with Troll dolls and pogs, and giggling as they ask their friends to join the “Pen 15 Club”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
how fast were those slap bracelets banned?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hate's a strong word there zoomzoom
i don’t think anyone hates you… strongly disagrees with some of your opinions… well that’s something totally different
but seriously, your mom
thats what the user name means in german. seems to be spelled a bit wrong, but thats the intent it seems.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
by Shi on Dec 1, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHA
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
If the Cardinals are giving me Ryan Theriot as a birthday present,
they better have included a fucking gift receipt.
by spants on Dec 1, 2010 4:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
he tried to return to the base
but it didn’t work
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 1, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
happy birthday, spants!
i just got you some lefty reliever named tallet. he was on clearance, so no returns.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
They got you Tallet, actually.
Theriot was for someone else.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
wat
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
It still stops short of being satisfying.
But as a second option it wouldn’t be too bad.
Aaaand I’m officially trying too hard with the puns.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
People with lots of money
BBWAA will be roasting Tony LaRussa. Bob Knight and Billby Bob Thornton are already confirmed roasters
$150 for a ticket, $1500 for a table
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
$150 because it'll last three nights, that's how much material there is
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Brian Tallet as Inspector Jacques Clouseau greets Ryan Theriot outside of a hotel in Louisiana after Theriot is DFA'd by the Cardinals
Date: Late Summer 2011
Location: Hilton Baton Rouge Capitol Center Hotel in Baton Rouge, La
Inspector Clouseau: “How long have you been a bellboy?”
Bellboy: “Oh, too long, Monsieur.”
Inspector Clouseau: “Keep up the good work, and I shall see to it you become a bell man.”
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Dec 1, 2010 4:45 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
then Carp luggaged them both.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 1, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So who played Goldeneye back in the day?
Because apparently it’s back on the Wii. And yes I just noticed.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I played a ton of goldeneye
but I think this is just a new game with the same title, and not a remake. and I’m not down with that.
is this code for egging their house? or menacing glares while flipping up our collars?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Possibly singing doo whop?
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I dunno, man. get the boys together and meet in the back. DanUp's not down with it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Alright cool cat. lol
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I would be totally stoked if they took the SAME level layouts
and just updated the controls & graphics for the Wii. Seriously. I would buy that game. Don’t change anything else. I would buy that game.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Yay slap fight multi player
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
We had a whole bench of 25th men last year
and at least 3 spots in the order that were automatic outs every night. I’m willing to wait to for the cake to finish baking before I pass judgement. This deal seems a good start if a little bit expensive.
I don’t know what the deal is with Ryan and Colby Clearly neither of them is respected. Ryan has had one gaffe after another and Albert completed unloaded on Colby during the TLR-Colby meltdown.
I love ryan and hope he doesn;t get the Adam Kennedy treatment but The cards don’t want to play him. I think if I were him, I’d volunteer to start in AAA and keep a low profile and work on whatever maturity issues need to be worked on and hope that the org will come around. Distance from TLR would serve him well right about now.
I hate dealing him at the bottom — we need to find a way to help him back.
Just win
Brendan Ryan reminds me a lot of Torres a few years back
Crazy ability combined with out of control ADD and crap hitting instruction from someone.
So what you're saying is
that you can fix him?
Always late to the party
Proof that yearly awards are silly #3,947
I glanced at MLB Network today, and they were going over the candidates for the “breakout” of the year award. This is not an award I generally care about too much, but the idea behind it is kind of cool, I think. It’s kind of similar to the ROY, only you don’t have to be a rookie. It’s an award for a sudden awesome performance. It’s voted on, I believe, by the hoi polloi that are the fans of the MLB. It is one of the many “This Year In Baseball” awards.
So what is so stupid about it if it doesn’t really matter that much? Well, among the nominees are obvious choices like Latos, Jose Bautista, Carlos Gonzalez, and the like. Somehow, in their infinite wisdom, they left out probably the second most obvious choice, Andres Torres.
An award for a breakout performance in 2010 did not include Andres Torres as a nominee. 6 WAR Andres Torres. World Series champion Andres Torres.
I’m not even saying he should have won. I would have voted for Bautista. But he obviously deserves a nomination. After all the hype and his appearance in a WS winning playoff team, did they just forget the guy existed?
Now, you might be thinking: Sure, he had a great year, but he did basically the same thing last year in a partial season, so that was his real breakout, right? He just continued his 2009 success. Except, you could say the exact same thing about Martin Prado, Bautista, and Angel Pagan, who are all nominated. Hell, Pagan basically did the same thing in 2010 as Torres, only not as good. Torres won the freaking World Series, how the hell did they leave him off the list???
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
MLBN has a unreconciled difference with TPG
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
I didn't play pro ball
Seriously, a producer got in touch with me once and we got into a conversation about something. He was all interested until he learned that I didn’t play at a high level.
They have the Joe Morgan Syndrome big time.
The level of analysis is mostly stupid on MLB Network
Far too many guys who are only on there because they used to play and are decent at talking on television. Harold Reynolds routinely makes a fool of himself when they have any sort of debate. His argument against Felix Hernandez for Cy Young was “but… wins! Wins!” and pretty much nothing else. He preferred Sabathia.
They do have some cool shows (I like Prime 9 even if it’s far from perfect and talks about the triple crown stats too much, it’s fun to learn about great players I don’t know) and some good talking heads too, but yeah. I agree with you.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
And I like when they jump around the various games at night
Just randomly showing an AB, or an inning.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Playoff soccer game tonight
5th grade boys but I’m still crazy nervous.
Someone please say something random but absorbing. I need to kill an hour.
PitchFX sucks, perhaps?
watch youtube videos.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 1, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
"fear factor"
“funny 911 calls”
“funniest thing ever”
“buzzer beater”
“shaq”
“awkward sports interviews”
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 1, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Very cool
Saw that once up close, kind of.
A big red tailed hawk hunts around our baseball field. I was dragging the field once and some blackbirds were eating something in the outfield. Suddenly the hawk drops out of the sky and absolutely blows up one of the blackbirds right next to me.
Little dude didn’t have a chance.
eagle goat
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Eagle goat was awesome
I figured he was just throwing him off the edge to pick at him after the fall.
MOKEY GOAT CUP ROPE
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
^ MONKEY
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
KARATE MONKEY DEATH CAR!
jimmy have fear? a thousand times no!
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Does anybody know where I can get a Duvel tulip glass?!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
....you break one?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I wish I had one in the first place to break
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
is that some kind of wedding tradition
?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I've looked there
…there’s no way to buy from that site, as best as I can tell
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Heh. Didn't notice that.
Run with Cody’s suggestion.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That $7.00 is looking promising
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Ugh shipping kills it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I just bought all 7.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 1, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hey who recced this?!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
DGJDSLKJGSDLKJGLDKSGJ VICTORY
http://www.bevmo.com/Shop/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17633
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
PICK UP IN STORE FUCK YEAH
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Why did you need our help again, exactly?
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Oh I'd been searching for like 2 weeks. I drove to the BevMo in West Hollywood to look for it, but they only had a Chimay Goblet
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Yet another random tidbit
I checked BaseballProjection.com today, and found some sad updates. He tells people looking for 2011 projections to check ZiPS instead. It also says he probably won’t be updating his WAR figured for 2010 since he doesn’t wanna and they’re on B-R. Lastly, he is working for a team soon, can’t say who or for what, and says the site will be dead for the time being.
Does this mean no more CHONE?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i must have missed where this was posted
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/round-two/article_4d6426f2-fd74-11df-823f-00127992bc8b.html
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_a986a11b-4465-5ae6-9aee-a1fe5e916d34.html
two posts indicate that boog is as good as gone, and likely by the end of the winter meetings. apparently tony and a few of the teammates (carp? pujols?) hated him and that’s why he’s being replaced. not an inability to properly evaluate him
not that that reasoning really makes it any better, but what’re you gonna do?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
or at least
no necessarily an inability to properly evaluate him. i have a suspicion that john mozeliak has access to and knows how to interpret boog’s BABIP
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Presumably
he also has access to his minor league stats, and knows how to properly interpret them. 479 PAs of a 252/303/341 AAA career ain’t exactly awe-inspiring.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 1, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
well, count me out of the group
that thinks boog is significantly likely to improve on his 1 WAR season in 2011. it still seems silly to ship a guy out because chris carpenter doesn’t like him, though. but like i said, what’re you gonna do? trade carp?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Let's just see how Carp reacts
to groundballs going ALL through our superb defensive combination of MIF’ers. I bet he goes back to Mo’s office begging to trade back for Boog.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Boog for Starting Shortstop in 2011!
theriot is average at worst
and there’s likely another move coming
i have a feeling that if it was bad enough to get him sent off, the players who got him sent off aren’t going to be begging for him to come back
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
first of all, Carp has frequently said that Boog's the best who's ever played short behind him.
that whole thing was a FESPN blowup — everyone admonishes Brendan, and if it were a problem, he would’ve been gone two years ago, not right now.
secondly, as much as I am beginning to suspect there’s an unknown factor that really dug him into the doghouse, the pre-existing condition of Skip always getting preference despite his numbers, well, pre-existed any of these problems. not to mention we have no data whatsoever that there’s Something Else pushing everyone to this Inevitable Decision. does not pass Occam’s razor. it is just suspicion and speculation.
the control condition is Felipe Lopez, whose troubles were well-publicized, even though they probably should have stayed in the clubhouse. it’s either really well hidden, or the one player who broadcasts 98% of his private details is keeping something behind closed doors.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 1, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it stinks like a Colby feud
I am not inclined to give it more fuel, even if the possibility looks plausible to me.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"clubhouse leaders"
leaves about 4 possibilites. i’m inclined to think it’s not adam wainwright. of the remaining three, i find it most likely to be chris carpenter or albert pujols. one of the two was seen on national TV screaming at the SS
i’m also more likely to believe the st louis media who are closer to the situation and have access to the players.
i see no reason to believe that brendan ryan thinks he can benefit from airing his laundry in public. saying “pujols/carp hates me” serves no purpose
and i also don’t think your logic follows that if there was a problem with brendan’s personality, he would have been gone two years ago? how do you even reach that conclusion? mozeliak’s change from an ardent supporter of brendan for years to ready to deal him within weeks speaks volumes
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
because he had run-ins with the likes of Jimmy, back when he was not a starter, and not known for anything
defense OR offense. they had more reason to scrub him then than now.
and look at what Strauss is saying. they don’t like him because he couldn’t mesh with the first year at any professional level hitting coach. seriously? coming off wrist surgery, the starting shortstop doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt, but Mark McGwire does?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you don't generally ditch the talent
after one-time offenses. it appears this is something that has been an issue for a while and now the length of time it’s been an issue, plus his terrible season spelled enough
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
that hadn't occurred to me
it’s plausible
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
also, I'm trying in vain to find your clubhouse leaders quote
/fail
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
sorry for the delay, AVG broke my computer
vikelt: Joe, do you agree with what appears to be the decision to get rid of Brendan Ryan? The stats cited by DG and BM seem to militate against replacing him with Theriot. I also note that Ryan righted things a bit offensively in the 2d half last season, hitting .252. I think he may do better this year but isn’t that number bearable given his defense and the Cards reliance on ground ball pitching? What say you?
Joe Strauss: Again, the decision regarding Theriot/Ryan wasn’t based solely on numbers. When clubhouse leaders become dissatisfied with a role player, the outcome is predictable. Splitting hairs about how often a guy goes first-to-third aren’t overriding factors.
Ryan is an often spectacular defender who ranked as one of the game’s worst offensive players last season. Tardiness and impolitic comments eroded his support among field staff and, yes, teammates. Don’t lay it all on the manager.
http://interact.stltoday.com/discussions/sports/joe-strauss-live/LD1129101290/all
Brendan’s outstanding glove work couldn’t overcome the grumbling that management — and perhaps a few teammates, too — had about his flighty personality.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/round-two/article_4d6426f2-fd74-11df-823f-00127992bc8b.html
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
i'm not interested in having a conversation about joe strauss
what i will say, though, is that the st louis sports media are certainly more knowledgeable about the situation than you or i. the information is what we have and it makes logical sense considering the circumstances. no my problem you have issues with a writer’s personality
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
appeals to authority are bad too
don’t have a conversation about strauss. i would love for that.
but you can’t quote his opinions (baseless ones, unless he’s denying us info) and then be like “i don’t want to talk about strauss”
i’ll talk about facts, that’s cool
Baseless?
There is more meat there than the usual Straussian speculation.
Field staff and teammates have stopped supporting Ryan because of his personality and comments.
He states that quite clearly.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
I think something like this is "officially" baseless
but shouldn’t be discounted entirely. Since there is no actual, specific quote or verifiable statement we can’t really know exactly what’s going on. But the reasons for the un-verifiability (spellcheck doesn’t like that word, whatevs) probably have to do with protecting anonymity, right? Strauss has some honor. I could see how he’d be able to get some actual inside info but not be able to reveal where it came from.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Dec 1, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Otherwise, somebody somewhere is just lying.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yeah
The best way to shoot your career in the foot face everything as a journalist is to reveal a source who doesn’t want to be revealed. It violates a vital trust and people won’t talk to you anymore, anonymously or otherwise. It leads to situations like this where we can’t be sure how much Strauss is injecting his own opinion into the matter, but nonetheless, it’s really the best anyone could hope to do as a journalist unless one of the players actually was willing to be quoted as saying Brendan Ryan is annoying little freak or something.
Suffice it to say that if it were a more reputable journalist who didn’t have such a record of being full of shit, I’d be much quicker to believe it. As it is, it’s coming from Strauss, and therefore it gets a handful of grains of salt from me.
I wish we had a meta-press that would go and talk to the players about how they feel about members of the press, so we could have someone not-quoting an anonymous player saying that Strauss is a pompous blowhard.
by mojowo11 on Dec 1, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
YES
I can’t believe people don’t understand this.
Thank you for saying it.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
because people don't say things like that on the record
and if he quotes individuals when they asked to remain nameless, they don’t talk to him at all
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
how do you know he's not just talking about stuff we all know about?
like on-field stony death glares from carpenter and pujols?
i wouldn’t assume he has the inside scoop, given the way its phrased.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
he might be
it’s become apparent that pujols and carp have been more open about it than i thought. that makes the claim more salient in my opinion
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
methinks you need to study logic
before you start calling people out on theirs. there’s no inferential claim linking the premise that joe strauss said it as concrete proof of its truth. what i said is:
the information is what we have and it makes logical sense considering the circumstances
i can certainly say that i don’t want to have a conversation about joe strauss. his celebrity villain status around here annoys me. the information is what it is. we don’t have facts. use your reasoning inside the context to determine what you think of it. or just leave it if you think the media or strauss have no credibility
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
celebrity villain status?
no celebrity status
douche status – absolutely
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
at the mere mention of his name
people flood the board with pictures of unicorns. he’s a celebrity around here and solely because of the people who hate him
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Dec 1, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
when there's a reason to believe anything strauss says, we should
until then, how can we? it’s way difficult to pull something useful out of his writings.
i don’t care that you don’t like, me not liking strauss. that’s not here or there
but you opened the door. when you use info, you subject yourself to criticism of your info’s source.
all i want is to be informed about players/coaches/managements opinions, and not strausses. is that to much? i can’t believe you’re arguing with me about this. i know you want the same
then offer me your argument
as to why joe strauss’ information is not valid. you didn’t criticize my source’s info beyond saying that it is baseless. and since you want to go all formal logic, that is what we call asserting the arbitrary. in essence, your claim that his information is baseless is, well, baseless
my argument that his information has some merit is that he has access to the people whose opinions he claims to be representing. does that make his information infallible? no. but no one has yet to point out a situation where strauss was clearly lying. if you have examples, point them out, please. until then, i am going to continue to give the news reported by joe strauss and the rest of the st louis sports media greater weight than the other information we have, which is nothing.
and for the record, i don’t care what you think of joe strauss. i kind of care how you represent your feelings for him, but that’s fairly easy to ignore. what i don’t like is someone posting a picture of a unicorn as their argument and then in the next post, falsely pointing out informal fallacies in my reasoning
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Dec 1, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not sure where i gave off the formal logic vibe, but sure, why not?
my arguement as to why joe strauss’ info is not valid/baseless, is that until he provides us with a credible source or reference as to organizational inner workings, his writings are referring to himself.
i have no problem with his honesty or journalistic integrity. none at all
my problem is he gives us no useable info. in the future, we won’t be able to refer back and understand who has problems with players. we can’t check other info against his sources. he literally gives us nothing.
and you can reason and apply logic and assess the arbitrary all day. and maybe you’ll get something hugely useful out of doing so. i sincerely hope you do. but you shouldn’t have to. not for a second
that's not the way journalism works
nothing good would come out of people going on record about a player currently on the roster
i also think it’s fairly reasonable to believe that if the entire clubhouse reads this article and goes “wtf, no one dislikes boog” then strauss wouldn’t get the kind of interviews that he does. he obviously has some sort of trust within the clubhouse to get stuff like the colby interviews
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Right
and if he did quote the players complaining about Ryan then VEB would be burning with posters complaining about a teammate throwing poor Boog under a bus. And then a picture of a unicorn.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
also untrue. VEB's meaner than that.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/11/2/1110887/travel-day#23752255
the latest incident in Cinci was mostly how FESPN foamed all over themselves trying to play it up.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Baseless
The “information” we have is that Joe Strauss asserts such-and-such.
The only ground you offer for believing such-and-such is that Joe Strauss is in a position to know such-and-such (which is in fact more basis than Joe Strauss himself advances; *he*offers nothing in support of such-and-such; his assertion is, quite literally, baseless). This is not evidence for such-and-such, merely an account of how, if such-and-such is true, it might come to Joe Strauss’ attention.
In these circumstances, our only authority for believing such-and-such is Joe Strauss; it is accordingly entirely in order to raise questions of his competence and credibility. To my mind his repeated citation of facts out of sequence and out of context in order to create the appearance of rancour calls his competence and credibility into doubt — all the more so when he makes his allegatons in a forum where he is not restrained by whatever passes at today’s Post-Dispatch for editorial supervision.
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
by alberich on Dec 1, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we burn people for heresay
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Wait, we meant heresy. Our bad.
These apology letters are gonna be embarassing.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
by TBender on Dec 2, 2010 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, we prefer the comfy chair.
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!
by The Spanish Inquisition on Dec 2, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
so i've heard
if you don’t trust his credibility, disregard it. i think what he says makes sense given the context and other information that is available
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Tell me, which members of the team did he interview to get his information?
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
read the rest of the thread
look for the long string of comments about naming sources who requested to be unnamed.
tom s also has a point. it’s not like it’s a secret that albert and carp don’t like boog. they’ve made that pretty clear. so he may not have been told this information by a cardinals employee
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I guarantee you that Carp and Pujols don't dislike Ryan to the point where they want him out of the clubhouse
That narrative is Strauss talking out of his ass.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
OH SNAP
Bob French: Is it common, or even considered, that a pitcher would request a middle infielder(s) to play behind him, as might happen with a particular catcher?
Joe Strauss: Yes, it is. Note how often Brendan Ryan starts behind Chris Carpenter. Coincidence?
via IHeartBoog, July 2010
Sorry I wasn’t able to find the quote about Brendan Ryan being the best shortstop Carp’s ever played for.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
or 'with'. there was probably a 'behind', actually, but until I find the quote
I’m not going there.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and for the record, I don't disagree with the st. louis media
I disagree with your assessment. especially when we ripped apart FESPN’s so-called analysis of Carp talking to Brendan in what he figured was in private. tempest in a teacup. P-D forum fodder. the most obvious fallacy is that Carp screams at everybody (not to mention he let it affect him on the mound this year, which was noted quite often.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i defended carp in that instance
i do believe he thinks he was out of camera shot. i also characterized carp as probably not a very likable guy. and i doubt that carp goes around screaming at most of his teammates like that. that’s not a very good way to get the respect that he seems to have in the clubhouse. i don’t think carlos lee is held in quite the same regard as teammates
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
what are you talking about?
there was an earlier quote that he got Boog to shut up while he was standing by second base. on top of that, there’s a lot of documentation of the guys hinting around that Carp is a hardass.
that’s probably why they respect him — I don’t see how else a pitcher injured as much as he’s been would still have that clubhouse in thrall.
you can’t just doubt something when there’s mounds of evidence to the contrary. Brendan Ryan is not specially reserved for the worst beatdowns.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i guess there's ryan ludwick, eh?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I don't think you know how Occam's razor works...
Because the hypothesis that requires the fewest assumptions to explain Boog’s status as a trade candidate is pretty apparent….
He sucked last year.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 1, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
actually, he didn't "suck last year". he was ordinary.
he hit dreadfully. but relative to other shortstops he was basically ordinary in total value.
there were 20 SS who provided more than 1.5 WAR. there were 26 SS who provided between 1.5 WAR and .5 WAR. he certainly was not good, but he was in the undifferentiated mass of guys who provided more than replacement value. i guess you could call that sucking, but i wouldn’t. sucking means being substantially worse than the majority of guys.
more importantly, the chances that he will be worth -2 wins with the bat next year (for everyone who doesn’t judge players on just one season) is very low.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Dec 1, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Suck is obviously a relative term everyone defines their own way...
Out of 34 ML SS who had at least 350PAs, Ryan was 24th out of 34 in fWAR, residing among talents like Ronny Cedeno, Wilson Valdez and Erick Aybar. He was better than replacement level so perhaps that means he didn’t technically suck, if that’s your measure. He also is one of the best baseball players on the planet, as he plays in the majors, so he clearly doesn’t suck at baseball. Again, all relative.
More relevantly, my comment was addressed to the point that no one needs to dream up a conspiracy theory for why Boog might be traded; it’s because he wasn’t very good last year.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 1, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
he had surgery on his fuckin wrist
and a new hitting instructor who a) changed his stance/just watched him keep changing his stance without doing anything about it and b) doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing
sucked so much at the plate, to make up for it to come out with a positive WAR he sure was worth A TON defensively. give him a fuckin shot
i love carp, but he’ll be lost without boog this year. i can’t remind people often enough we pitch to contact and we have two holes at second and third
and if they do end up unloading boog, i hope he hits a home run off of each and every one of our pitchers next season
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
he had surgery on his fuckin wrist
that seems like the best reason to get any kind of value we can out of him.
hitting instructor who a) watched him keep changing his stance without doing anything about it and b) doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing
we don’t have any way of knowing this kind of stuff. boog seems like a neat guy, but it’s important to be objective
i love carp, but he’ll be lost without boog this year. i can’t remind people often enough we pitch to contact and we have two holes at second and third
he did pretty alright with david eckstein and ronnie belliard behind him. boog’s defense is valuable, but carp and waino are just good pitchers. check the FIP
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
that seems like the best reason to get any kind of value we can out of him.
give him time to recover, give him half a season and if you don’t like what you see, trade him
we don’t have any way of knowing this kind of stuff. boog seems like a neat guy, but it’s important to be objective
how am i not being objective? boog has changed his stance multiple times, mac is on the let-them-fail-on-their-own trip. as a hitting coach maybe you should, i don’t know… do something to help him…
he did pretty alright with david eckstein and ronnie belliard behind him. boog’s defense is valuable, but carp and waino are just good pitchers. check the FIP
that was 4-5 years ago and before the injury, carp will be 36 this coming season
i can’t find his FIP for 2010 though, do you know what it is?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Just get something straight here
The Cardinals are gonna go into 2011 with 4 50%+ groundball pitchers in their starting staff, and Lohse who is probably close that.
I’m sure that those pitchers will be missing Boog heavily.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
maybe not Westy so much
and Lohse will be giving out HRs so it doesn’t matter
but the other 3, yeah, they’ll miss him
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
i still operate under the assumption lohse will dominate 2011
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
....the hair clippers
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i bet he breaks a toe and is out 4 months
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 1, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
no, that's Freese.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
did you learn nothing from yesterdays acquisition?
with power comes responsibility
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 1, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
clank, you are the only one
did you dispose of chalk?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
reduce reuse recyle
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Jayson Werth
In no way whatsoever am I saying Boog will become Jayson Werth or Derrek Lee next year however Boog had wrist surgery and a truncated recovery timetable much like both those guys did.
There was a time that Jayson Werth was considered waiver fodder because of his wrist surgery and depressed offensive stats. I don’t think Derrek Lee was ever considered waiver fodder but he did have a terrible year after having wrist surgery and then bounced back well the next year. Here’s hoping that Cardinals aren’t making the same mistake.
If Boog’s wrist is the reason that he dropped from 2009 levels to 2010 levels with the bat, and I think it’s very strong proponent, it’s quite possible that he returns to those levels when his wrist is fully healed. If so then we’re losing a very valuable shortstop because someone in the clubhouse can’t deal with bad jokes? I thought they were adults.
by WizardofOz1982 on Dec 2, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yet, he was better than Theriot and Skip
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like these turds either....
Being “better” than these meager-talent gritmeisters is not a feather in Boog’s cap.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 1, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
having a slightly better bat than boog though
sure is worth a lot to our FO
and that assessment of value shouldn’t be a feather in mo’s hat either
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
So far...
All that’s happened is that Blake Hawksworth has been traded for Ryan Theriot, which on balance, is a fine trade.
I’ll reserve my comments about Mo’s apparent stupidity until the offseason is over and we see what the roster looks like.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 1, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Mo has said that Theriot is a starter over Boog, and not Skip
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, how's that for stupidity?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
he said if the season starts today, that's the case
he also said that it’s likely they’ll continue to upgrade the infield
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Dec 1, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Theriot was replacement last year
Yeah, he’s better, but how is he possibly “average at worst”? Boog is as good or better going forward.
BOTH ARE BETTER THAN SKIP.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
we were talking about defense
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
bottom line
theriot is an expensive spare part infielder who has just begun the bounce around, try to hang on phase of his career
of course, we traded for him
and we’ll have him for years because there is no one else in the
pipeline (sorry tg)
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
He is a free agent next year
I bet Theriot is a 2 win player this year
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 2, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
which will ensure that we pay him $6M to play SS in 2012.
/bangs head on desk.
by SleepyCA on Dec 2, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
or we trade/non-tender him
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Well...
what’re you gonna do? trade carp?
If the price is right…
by JWO on Dec 1, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with that
but i think you’re more likely to lose if you’re trading away your #2 starter than you are trading away a guy who struggled to beat replacement level
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Really?
He puts up 1 WAR with a .260 wOBA and a .250 BABIP, and he’s not going to improve on that?
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
the brendan ryan i watched
did not seem like a player plagued by batted ball luck. it’s also important to read all the words that i use. i should probably make greater use of italics. i don’t think boog is significantly likely to improve on his 1 WAR season. i think he was a terrible hitter before he was an unlucky hitter. if it’s because of his wrist, ask joe mather or mark derosa how it’s working out for them
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
uh, no.
he played his whole career with a bum wrist. remember how he kept letting go of his bat? he didn’t do it once this year. most days he was not able to put in batting practice because of the pain. this is pre-2010.
now, because he played with this his entire adult life, on top of the physical part of the surgery, it’s going to feel different mentally and kinetically. he literally rebooted everything about his swing. it is NOT THE SAME as Joe Mather or Mark DeRosa.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
arguably, there is a window for him to become better than he's ever been.
I wouldn’t bet on it, but once again, numbers are being thrown out there without looking at what happened.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
mark derosa
played at least all of the 2009 season with a bum wrist. he put up a .346 wOBA and popped 13 HRs in 314 PAs with the indians. he then had surgery and has barely played since. there’s also plenty to indicate that he had been playing with the wrist issue for a long time. his wrist was wrapped back when he was a cub
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Brendan Ryan's wrist was injured in high school, dude.
he was literally picked up and moved through the system for years while playing with this condition. are you suggesting that every wrist surgery is exactly the same? because they weren’t the same. Brendan’s surgery was non-invasive enough that he was back in spring training instead of sitting out half the year. you’re correlating like crazy.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hell, i agree with you about the wrist surgery
i was battling the logic that he should be excused “because he’s coming off wrist surgery” when it was really even surgery in anything but the strictest sense
my main point is that 2010 brendan ryan was plagued by something much worse than luck. i don’t really have any peripherals or anything to back it up, but the boy looked awful
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
So, that "something other than luck"
Didn’t happen to effect his K rate, or his BB rate, or his LD rate, or anything really besides BABIP – the stat most influenced by luck, in which single season BABIP is probably 20% in a hitters control?
Naw, I don’t buy that.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
my problem with it is
1. is it repeatable
2. is it not repeatable
I do not see any evidence that 2010 is repeatable. not enough to just throw him out with the bathwater. not with the amount of help he gives the team — and the pitchers.
and by the way, we keep saying it, over and over again: surgery, spring training, changing his swing every five minutes. under the tutelage of the hitting coach, might I add. are these underlying causes repeatable? are they going to fuck us over to the point where we have to let him go? all of this, by the way, is publicly available information, so I don’t understand this tendency by several people to just throw out this data. of, y’know, what actually happened.
Skip, on the other hand, sucks like clockwork. I don’t see him being worried — oh, okay, he probably is worried about his job, being himself. but still. there is a lot of noise that Skip was chosen to stay regardless of how much he could help the team on the field going forward. because La Familia decided.
I would love there to be another reason, I really would. but if the only thing they repeat is the same irrational idea, and there is no strategic value to it, there is a pretty good chance they actually believe this irrational idea. and they’re probably going to act on it going forward.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 1, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I watches enough Brendan Ryan atbats
in 2010 to comfortable blame us awful offense on swinging at terrible pitches, popping up meatballs, and taking strikes.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Well this is awkward
His strikeout rate, walk rate and popup rate’s were the same or better than last year!
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
I think this probably had something to do with it
He doesn’t have much power and he hit a lot of fly balls. That’s not a good recipe for success for Brendan Ryan, I don’t think.
Then he should start doing push-ups every time he hits a flyball
/MajorLeague’d
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Wow
that’s truly surprising and extremely hard to believe, but if them’s the numbers I suppose I have no choice. Is his popup rate terribly high? Particularly for a guy that should almost never be trying to hit the ball over the fence?
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
His popup rate is a bit high
Nothing hugely sigficant, but yeah, you’d rather have him him hitting it on the ground more.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
oh, you mean
DINGERS?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by the way, when do we hold Mark McGwire accountable?
is that on the schedule?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
we hold him accountable somewhere
around the 2nd week of November after the initial championship celebration.
Then we praise him for coaxing an 85hr season out of Pujols, a .399 (so close!) BA for Holliday, and 211 RBI for Colby.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
this is going to be a long offseason.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i have no idea how to evaluate a batting coach
i don’t think anyone really does. that makes it kind of hard to put on the schedule. we could look at overall team offensive performance, but there’s way too many external factors. the last two season are also only .004 wOBA points different
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
o-swing
bb rate, k rate, ld/fb/fb
they’re all pretty much the same.i still think he looked terrible at the plate, but i’m not gonna keep arguing a point that i have no empirical evidence to support
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Dec 2, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
also, no need to feel awkward
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
and are you watching the interviews, the descriptions of the surgery, the approaches at the plate?
that’s what I mean by “all the data”. other players don’t give out that much information. Ryan, for whatever reason, not only talks for himself, but the reporters, his coaches, his teammates, and some members of his family just flood the aether. if the Post-Dispatch would only archive correctly, you could lay out a nice chart of his success at the plate vs. when he started simplifying his approach to “put his eyes in a better place to see the ball.” every other player makes those adjustments all the time, but we don’t get to find out when and where and how.
it makes no sense to average out numbers to get a distribution, when you can watch it happen from more angles. it makes the numbers more useful, instead of using them to make a point.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Players who wOBA .324 in the previous season are not true talent level .250 wOBA hitters
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
with a .332 BABIP
and it’s remarkable what wrist surgery does to a hitter’s true talent level
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Did Boog even have that high of an BABIP in the minors?
I mean 2009 was probably boog’s career year since starting professional ball. (jon jay argument)
what do we take as his true talent?
i would say
assuming he’s healthy .310-.320
with his defense, that’s valuable. but i’m not sure it’s worth burning the stadium down over especially if there were off the field issues that necessitated his removal from the team
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Wait, you think he's a true talent .310-.320 wOBA guy?
Doesn’t this directly contradict what you’re saying above?
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
You do realize that he had a .250 BABIP last year, right?
So you’re saying that’s not unlucky, but his .330 BABIP beforehand is lucky?
Regardless, I think your dead wrong. Boog’s career wOBA is well above his 2010. His 2009 was well above his 2010. His 2010 had a BABIP 50 points lower than the league average.
There is zero evidence that Boog is as bad as he was last year.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
he doesn't profile as the type of hitter to sustain
above average BABIPs. and i didn’t say that he didn’t suffer from any batted ball luck. i said that i think his terrible hitting was the bigger cause for it
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Who said anything about "above average"?
I would settle for .290, which would still knock his wOBA up .30 points.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Wrist Surgery
Ask Derrek Lee and Jayson Werth how their wrist surgeries are playing out. We can play that game on either side of it.
by WizardofOz1982 on Dec 2, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
why?
he’s clearly not THIS bad a hitter. wOBAr gives him a 30 point bump on this season and he was better last year. So there is no reason at all to think he won’t regress positively in that aspect. Which means you think his defense is gonna go downhill. Right?
Fire John Mozeliak
his minor league BABIP is .302
his major league BABIP is .292
there is no reason on the planet to think he won’t improve his hitting next season. So saying that he will continue to be a 1.0 WAR player going forward is by necessity an argument regarding his defense. So enlighten me on Boog’s defense, PJ.
Fire John Mozeliak
Your BABIP is expected to go down as you move up in leagues (...I'm assuming)
Better pitchers = worse contact
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
my point about adding the MILB babip is that it doesn't have anything bad to say about his batted ball profile
there is no reason to think that he wont improve on a .253 babip
Fire John Mozeliak
there's a big difference between the players disliking him and Tony disliking
I agree with you, if it’s Carp and Pujols, then it’s regrettable but probably for the best; You can’t let players dictate roster moves, but if there really doesn’t seem to be any hope of reconciliation and there are players representing 10+ wins on one side and a 1 Win player on the other….uh yeah, that’s a pretty easy decision. That being said, if this is all because Tony and Big Mac couldn’t get along with him, then F that. Those guys add nothing to this team, you could make a pretty strong argument they actually cost the team wins last year. That would really piss me off, but this is all speculation and we’ll probably never know the truth for sure.
i never heard anything about mac
i thought they liked each other
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
everything i've gathered from pujols interviews is that he doesn't like boog much
not brendan ryan the player but the slight eye rolling and struggling to say something nice about his personality, and the best it amounts to is “brendan being brendan” all point to pujols being one of the alleged clubhouse leaders disliking boog
carp cares more about winning but i don’t think he likes him much either. telling him to put camera away or he’ll break it in half might be an instance of that
if albert dislikes boog, then by default, yadi dislikes boog
waino likes everyone
so there
but it’s strauss, so whatever it is, it’s bound to be overblown and mostly out of context
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
i don't remember the instances you cite
so i guess it’s likely to be three out of the four
bad combo for boog
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Pujols: "I'm not re-signing if Brendan Ryan is around."
Mo: “Someone get Colletti on the phone, and tell Hawksworth to pack a bag.”
by mojowo11 on Dec 1, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that fuckin sucks
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 1, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
DO NOT WANT
damnit i am sad
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Who the hell *hates* Boog?
You can find him annoying sure, but hate seriously? Is he a clubhouse cancer or something?
I hate this team so much. More drama than a spanish soap opera.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and not even half the nudity and arm waving
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
yeah, I'm getting pretty sick of the 'tudes, the drama, the questionable moves
I don’t think Larussa is the worst manager, but he’s definitely not one of the best. at this point, I just want to see him retire.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 2, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, pretty much
over and over again
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 2, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
At this point, the concept of a fanbase
not having to deal with all kinds of intrigue and suspicion and internal power struggles and so on is basically foreign to me — that worries me.
kids with learners permits have never known a different manager.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
they just weren't alive for it
i’ve been driving almost 10 years and i can’t remember a cardinals team not managed by la russa
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
what would it take for you to change your alliance?
Not being snarky, just curious where the final straw is, or if there is one.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
I myself have been frequently miffed at this franchise
not sure what it would take for me.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
the Cardinals irritate me to no end
I still devour any bit of info I can about them, read about their history, scour ebay for vintage Cards paraphernalia, adorn my house with Cards shit, eagerly wait every season, and spend more money than will ever be justifiable going to games and following them around the country. In other words, it would take a whole hell of lot more than hating our manager to renounce this team.
yeah, this too shall pass
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 2, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
As someone who sat through the apathy and ineptitude of 91-95...
It’s gonna take a lot more that this to move me to another team.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
No straw
I pretty much hate all other teams, except for the Royals, but they are just sad and their front office is even more dysfunctional than ours.
I guess I could end up being a Nationals or Rays fan, but that’s for different reasons.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 2, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
i would just stop watching baseball if it came to that
i can’t be a fan of another team
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
this
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 2, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
i couldn't bring myself to it
but the cards annoy me to no end, with the TLR ‘is he coming back or isn’t he’, TLR’s managing oddities, team drama, and years where it gets nervewracking, either in the regular season or playoffs. but, no matter what, i’ll always bleed cardinal red. but, if albert were to leave, it would be a little tougher.
hey Mo: theriot at 2B, boog at SS.
the chatmeister is working overtime
the dude is still answering questions
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
i can't believe they used
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh no...
12:01
[Comment From MikeMike: ]
any word on the potential new hire(s)?
Wednesday December 1, 2010 12:01 Mike
12:01
Dave Cameron:
We debuted two new writers on the site this morning – Chris Cwik and Dayn Perry, both of whom I’m excited about having on board. We’ll have several more new guys coming on board in the next week or two.
I’m not reading Perry’s stuff…
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
Dayn f'ing Perry?
FanGraphs is quickly becoming ESPN.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I saw that Jose Lopez of the Seattle mariners may be non tendered
I don’t really know a whole lot about the guy especially his d but I know he hit like 25 home runs 1-2 years ago and he would probably come cheaply and can play 2nd and 3rd…any intrest there?
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 1, 2010 7:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yea but he's only 27
And in comparison to skip he seems like a substantial upgrade…bring him in keep boog skip and theriot and let them battle for those spots in spring training? It’s irrelevant I think anyway as the org seems perfectly content giving ss to theriot and may be done upgrading the infield…owell it could be worse, we could have a junior spivey Rico washingnton Ruben gotay infield battle, that would be fun
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 1, 2010 7:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Too volatile
He’s had two years where he was a decently above average player. He has also had a few replacement level years. One year of about 1.7 WAR too, I think. Basically, like Skip, everything has to go right for him to be an average player. He seems like a very bad bet, to me, for that to happen. But he is younger than I thought, so maybe room for growth. He’d have to learn how to take some walks, and learn it hard.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
boog's ceiling is way highter than skips, say 1.5-2 WAR? dunno if you comparing them is fair
if everything goes right for him, i could see boog in the 3-4 war range
2.5 for defense, 1.5 for offense. over a full season, this isn’t unreasonable. he’s done it in the past
+25, eh?
his numbers thus far indicate he’s closer to +10. what makes you think he’s a 25 run-above-average defender?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
ah
i guess you’re going by DRS. i know more about UZR, so that’s what i’m inclined to use
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
If Boog is a +15 defender
He’s a +22.5 run defense player when you consider his position.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 1, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I was comparing Skip to Jose Lopez
I was assuming that was what TheHolyDiver19 was talking about, and it was just a reply fail.
“Basically, like Skip, everything has to go right for [Jose Lopez] to be an average player.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Your right
We have enough bets to deal with. it was just a thought after noticing the non tender is all what with the mif mess
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 1, 2010 9:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I fell into the trap of being interested in him for a while
But when I took a close look at his numbers I decided I was against it. Perpetually low OBP that wouldn’t help us, up and down production, etc. Some power, but not a guarantee to be significant.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Here's a quote I found on Lookout Landing that describes perfectly how I feel about Jose Lopez
This pleases me. It’s not that Lopez was the worst player ever, or that I don’t expect him to rebound somewhat this season. There are just some players that you get sick of watching and Lopez epitomizes this phenomenon for me. From his batting stance, to the way he swings at everything, to the way he runs, to his fat, dopey face. I’ve had enough.
Now let’s get some Ackley up in this bitch.
Objectively, would he be the worst move ever? Probably not
Subjectively, every single one of you will hate his guts at the end of his contract
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Eh, at least he has some actual skills
Good power. I’d hate Miles, Stavinoha, Theriot (although he might walk a bit), Suppan, etc. much more.
Remember Dan's dFAWAR or whatever post a few days ago?
Lopez, despite being a better player, is way lower on that scale than they are.
Just trust me on this. This is one thing I have 100% confidence in.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
How about a Kouz, Lopez, Theriot IF?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I know literally nothing about Kevin Kouzmanoff
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
that IF would have
wOBA’s of .296, 268 and 286 with good defense
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I refuse to believe that Jose Lopez plays good defense
No matter what UZR says
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
don't get VEP started, it is right you are wrong
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Yeah, because I think single season UZR means anything significant about talent
Although I am glad you think of me as an entity.
seems like Lopez is the Tyler Greene if Tyler Greene sucked over 600 PAs last season
Fire John Mozeliak
He's got Dustin Pedroia power
Actually that’s a really good comp. Ackley’s defense is probably worse at this point, but it’s a work in progress
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
He had a 67:52 BB:K ratio this year, by the way
That’s incredible
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Dustin Pedroia is an anomaly
I would not want my comp to be Pedroia, seeing as his is a rare case. I don’t expect more than 15-20 homers out of Ackley. I like him better than Cox but not by a lot.
Fire John Mozeliak
If there's one tool to miss in a prospect, isn't power the best one? It develops.
Sure, Ackley will never be a 20 HR guy, especially at SafeCo, but he’s still valuable if he can hover in the .450 SLG area.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it does develop
there’s just not enough there to justify the hype, in my opinion.
Fire John Mozeliak
I hadnt really though about Berkman in our outfield but thats an interesting thought. Id like Mo to offer Adam Dunn $8 mil a year for the next four years. We’ll have to get Colby to get his Kelly Leek on and catch everything in RF but that would be a seriously potent lineup. I’d go Theriot, Dunn, Albert, MH, Rasmus, Freese?, Molina, Schu, Pitcher. We would just have to get used to those pesky rally killing homeruns
"I don't take no anesthetic. Did Lincoln ask for any girlie gas when they blowed his head off?"
I wouldn't leadoff Theriot until he proves he's got the OBP back
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
My immediate thought when Theriot said he wants to steal more bases was
Okay, well, you’re hitting sixth then — steal second and let Yadi single you in.
single ahead of yadi
must steal second asap
otherwise—giddyup
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
IF WE SIGN BRAD HAWPE I WILL BURN THIS FUCKER DOWN!
continue as you were.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Can he play short?
Then let’s not sign him.
edit: I know Brad Hawpe cannot play short.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
he might actually be better at SS than RF
given his defensive history (-36 in RF in 2008!!!) Totally different skill set, and all.
I still don't understand why Colorado never
put him in left and Holliday in right.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
Does it really matter all that much?
aside from having the arm for right field…
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
Probably not. But he could not have been any worse than Hawpe in right....
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
going off memory, but I don't think Matt was that good on D
he really improved a lot this year.
he might even get new shoes.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Good reason.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
he's traditionally been above average
but 2010 might have been a little fluky as far as UZR goes
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Left Field in Coors takes wheels to play something Hawpe never had
Hawpe’s arm is really his only plus defensive attribute
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
On a possible positive note
Did anyone else notice that in today’s chat Strauss said, twice, that he thought the Albert re-signing would be done by Jan. 15 (2011)? Both times was in a response to a question about “When?”, but he (Strauss) didn’t respond by saying “if”, “<50%”, or other such, just that he expected it done my mid – January.
he's just saying random stuff
so that he’s said everything once and then he can go and point back to it with i told you so
basically, he can go ahead and kiss my ass
until there’s a press release, i dgaf what strauss says and i sure as hell ain’t reading his chats
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
remember when all we had to worry about was Matt Holliday?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
longtime Cardinal left fielder
Matt Holliday. He really is able to strike a baseball with vigor. I suggest you make yourself familiar with this baseball great.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 1, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
not till he has a Moment
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well he's had a few "almost-moments" right
some walkoff action and whatnot? Perhaps a crucial dinger against the Reds?
I say “almost-moments” because there was no Lidgeian Trauma to sear the moment into my brain.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
there's got to be at least some caramelization. grill-marks, ideally.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
nutcracker moment
is his #1 so far
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
you see that large, round object in the horizon?
now squint till you see the top, then keep scanning down till you see the eyes. if you hit some sunflower seeds, you’ve gone too far.
That’s Matt Holliday.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and yet you said it anyway
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
give him a break
besides
gifs aren’t words.
technically.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm just being jazzy!
in truth i spread love!
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
if you could get a certain someone out her to spread her luv my way
i’d be forever in your debt
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Sorry, I'm mostly only able to spread my own love
and you probably don’t want any of that junk.
(WEEPS DRAMATICALLY)
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
if he worked for the P-D
he’d be the second-best sportswriter on the team, automatically, just fr admitting he has nothing to say.
i'm better than Bernie? score!
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
real good, second one will hopefully be tomorrow or friday
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
no, i called this AM & the VP said as long at it's kept short & trimmed it's fine
which is how i always keep it. i didn’t know it, but that was what today was about, making sure i look the part. the main interview will be with the ceo & he’ll decide if i’m right for the job.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Semen collector at a horse farm.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
so you'll be arranging for the hookers and blow.
good stuff.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
how do you train someone for that?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Well, I would start by going to Vegas,
but that’s just me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i wouldn't survive a week in VEGAS
although i’ve always wanted to go & just have has much debauchery as i possibly could before i died
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
okay!
so i agree that boog is probably going to outperform his 1 WAR season. 2 WAR player is probably a good projection for his 2011 if he gets 600 PAs. but i still think there are likely to be clubhouse problems behind him losing his job/probably getting traded. it’s the only way that everything makes sense. mozeliak seems to be saying that he is actively trying to trade boog.
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
i take the wait and see approach myself
Hold judgement till something happens with Boog
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 2, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
yup
boog is the starting shortstop until someone actually starts over him
one of the few Truths in this world is that TLR starts whomever the fuck he wants
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 2, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
yes, finally
took you long enough.
Sorry I didn’t read this before going stat-hunting and hand-calculating his minor league babip.
Fire John Mozeliak
So my 5th graders lost on PKs
We had 10 good opportunities to their 1 or 2, but we couldn’t put the biscuit in the basket.
PKs are bullshit anyway
you wouldn’t end a basketball game on a free throw shooting contest, would you. Though I guess there’s an element of pragmatic necessity to Pks.
60 minutes plus two 10 minute overtimes
2 hour game, 0-0 tie.
If it was the championship, we would have been declared co-champions.
My son had some great corners, but my guys don’t always like to head the ball or to stay home on the back post so they went through the crease
so there are good odds
that Ryan Theriot will get to ride the opening day chevy
hmm.
someone will tell him that the horses bite, right?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
when did the Cards drop Ford?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
well hell
I thought ‘ford’ and wrote ‘chevy’
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
December 16, 1988
Traded by the St. Louis Cardinals with Steve Lake to the Philadelphia Phillies for Milt Thompson.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
OT
music that I can’t stop listening to:
Pomegranates-One of Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UL8W6XIwBk = a good song but the album has better but this one is easy to find
Cards Fan in Chitown I think you might like this.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 1:12 AM EST reply actions
it's not too shabby
a little more pop than I usually listen to
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 2, 2010 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
i heard this cool cover of hey hey my my last night on SOA's finale
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
que
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
this is very funny
http://www.urlesque.com/2010/11/17/man-forced-eat-beard-remixed/
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 2, 2010 1:20 AM EST reply actions
Well I just finished my last practice with the USC Ultimate Frisbee team =(
Feels bad man
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Congrats
You are no longer a douchebag college frisbee player…
just a straightup douchebag AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
God you're such a beta male
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
You know
Like not an alpha male
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Damnit
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=beta%20male
Well you’re right, although I hardly fit into the stereotype. But I doubt you’re an alpha male either.
Haha this insult works so well
I can not attest to my alpha maleness or my beta maleness
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
you are a sigma male, a standard deviant
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I always considered him a mu male, because he is mean
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
This thread is awesome
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/11/26/1837623/how-would-you-market-the-mariners
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Inside jokes you might not get:
Mariners had an “I can haz cheezburger” promotion night this summer where they gave out LOLcat bobbleheads. Sadly, they do not give bobbleheads out to interns, so I did not get one.
The Mariners play in the “SoDo” district of Seattle, and during the Griffey peak years, their version of the cardiac kids was “SoDo Mojo”
Ryan Rowland-Smith is nicknamed “Hyphen” for obvious reasons
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Oh my God
I’m looking through their “LLemmies Balloting” fanpost (which Y2S should do for us, by the way…)
These are their options for Post of the Year, non-picture division:
That’s weird
My cat is more like Cory Lidle. It died when I threw it into the side of a building.
’No one allow Michael Pineda into a vehicle.
Which is in response to a post saying that the Mariners are becoming the Angels
The other ones are inside jokes or something and aren’t actually that funny
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
how could you call that not funny
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I never said they weren't funny
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I prefer VEB's community
They just seem to have less of a filter than we do haha
I don’t even know what to do with this post
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/1/18/1258759/felix-thread-2#29114286
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
holy shit those bastards are fucked up
if you learn stuff from them you won’t be around here very much longer
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
So I'm listening to "The Diamond Sea" right now.
That is all. Y’all are missing out if you are listening to anything else.
Trivia Questions?
I was voluntold I’m running a trivia night at my bar Thursday night and I need some cardinal’s/baseball trivia questions…So?
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
Q; Who's stinky?
A: Fredbird!
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
Q: Should Adam Wainwright wear a sombrero or a fedora?
A: Fedora unless he is celebrating something, in which case the sombrero or a clown-wig is acceptable.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
Q. During Stan Musial's 22 years in a Cardinals unifrom one other Cardinal won the MVP
award who was it?
A. Marty Marion in 1944
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Which was a fucking sham.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
come on Marion was the original Eckstein
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
That should probably be enough questions for a successful trivia night.
Tiebreaker: How many souls has Tony LaRussa sucked Dementor-style from the bodies of innocents and stored in his magical soultrunk?
A: 8
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 2, 2010 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
I read through one of them
Welp I’m done for the night haha
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
well
the Replacements Let it Be IS better than the Beatles.
Other than that, these are all pretty good reasons to love the Beatles.
Fire John Mozeliak
lateral trade
after years of suffering Joe Morgan, my joy at his release from duties on ESPN Sunday games is now tempered by the news that he is essentially being replaced by (throw up) Bobby Valentine.
I still have the mute button.
we're the Beach Boys
i’m cool with that. LaRussa is no Brian Wilson though.
No, not THAT Brian Wilson.
Fire John Mozeliak
Well, at times such commitments must crop up anytime and you never know maybe this is just the comic relief here. I also learnt that Uribe is off market and nobody wants Orlando Hudson’s services, anyway I will also leaver others to start the session as I join them later.
Michael Jordan in his prime
I'm gonna go ahead and spell it out.
WHAT THE FUCK?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
this is what this site has been missing
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 3, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
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