Albert Pujols, Joey Votto, and the MVP
by DanUpBaby on Nov 23, 2010 6:01 AM EST
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PrintI would have liked to see Albert Pujols win the MVP this year, and I think—but can't be sure—that under Pepsi Challenge conditions I still would have voted for him. Choice P would have nearly identical hitting numbers, nine additional games, and a better long-term record as a defensive player. (Pragmatically, he would also have a higher bWAR, and I always check Baseball-Reference before Fangraphs, and if I wasn't taking voting very seriously...)
But I definitely can't be mad about it, even if Votto is probably more like the player he was in 2009 than the one he was in 2010, going forward. For one thing, he wasn't picked for the wrong statistical reasons—in fact, Pujols was more likely to win the MVP that way this year, with the RBI and home run titles. Votto had a higher OPS and, like Pujols, wasn't doing the damage on defense or the basepaths that's expected of slugging first basemen.
For another, Albert Pujols isn't coming off his best season. Having spent all year worrying about his performance and his single-season UZR and his constant, nagging injuries I can't in good faith act like nobody else saw it or was influenced by it, however irrational it finally is to worry about the long-term value of a guy who finished the season with an OPS+ of 173.
Votto, meanwhile, had his best season—probably the best one he'll ever had—and came on strong with a team that was doing the same thing. That gives a different subjective impression of a player and his value, and I'm not above that kind of thing when it comes to voting for awards like these that do—whether we like it or not—have some narrative component.
You can see what I'm getting at, here: I can't get mad at Joey Votto because he's not Ryan Howard. And luckily for Votto, Howard managed to inadvertently stumble into another ridiculous MVP decision, earning a second-place MVP vote from somebody who must not have watched any baseball this season. As I mentioned on SB Nation yesterday, Ryan Howard finished eighth in the National League in WAR.
Oh, sorry, I read that wrong. Eighth on the Philadelphia Phillies in WAR, behind Roy Oswalt, who pitched 83 innings as a Phillie and did not, I'm told, receive any MVP votes at all.
So this isn't Ryan Howard, and as a result I'm fine with it; it's much closer to the Derrek Lee situation in 2005. (Lee actually also finished that season with a 174 OPS+, weirdly enough.) I remember being surprised Pujols was named MVP that year, and I'm not surprised he wasn't this year.
MLB Trade Rumors is reporting that the Reds and Votto are now engaged in intermittent, inscrutable discussions regarding a long-term contract. If that doesn't allow you a little sympathy for Votto and Reds fans everywhere, I don't know what will.
Meanwhile, the Cardinals are apparently interested in Jason Bartlett, which seems like a move that's being contemplated two years too late. Bartlett had a huge 2009—.320/.389/.490 with 14 home runs and 30 stolen bases—but the rest of his career looks similar enough to 2010 to give me serious pause about 2011. This year he's not a bad player to have, but he's not a great player to get.
He's just another infielder who would probably be an upgrade at second base but is far from a certain boon at shortstop, and given the Cardinals' stated position on Ryan and Schumaker he's another infielder I can't assume Mozeliak/La Russa would utilize effectively.
Apparently any Bartlett move is on hold pending the results of the posting process for Japanese shortstop Tsuyoshi Nishioka; bidding ends this afternoon at four o'clock. The Cardinals haven't been connected with Nishioka at all, but despite my reservations about his true talent level I feel like he's our last hope for an upgrade that doesn't cause the team to unnecessarily displace a lot of defensive value by benching Ryan instead of Skip Schumaker.
How's this for an endorsement: I like Nishioka because his weak arm and teams' general post-Kaz-Matsui suspicion of Japanese shortstops make him more likely to end up at second base than Bartlett or Juan Uribe. I hope his agents use that quote when they're negotiating his contract.
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that time warp thing albert's doing
is a little trick he picked up from amaury cazana
Kyle Lohse has a No-Trade Clause.
i would like for someone to sign joey votto long term
and then trade him to the cubs
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
why?
if i have to be looking up at an NL central team, i’d rather it be the reds than the cubs
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
This ALMOOST makes me wanna be a Phillies fan...
http://shop.tastykake.com/Products/Philadelphia-Phillies-Tin__101944.aspx
Tastykakes are the greatest thing on earth, period!
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
It's what's for dinner
I’m thinking of something else …
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
to crash or not to crash
based on watching him in Louisville, now a few years ago, I always felt that the kid was the real deal. Based on that mostly (the raw talent, I mean), I am moderately thumbs up on whether he can continue to be a top-ten vote-getting MVP type player.
On the he will regress side, Votto does not seem to be a carry the load type person/player. His and the Reds’ season this year seemed bizarre in some ways. He CAN be ‘pitched to’ (well, at least more so than the likes of Pujols, or Cargo, for instance) but often wasn’t this season. In other words, the spotlight doesn’t suit him.
So if the Reds, or whatever team he’s on, doesn’t have at least one other attention-getting boomer, I could see him slipping into Mark Grace status, which ain’t half bad really, especially if he does not grow up to be an excessively obnoxious broadcaster.
Lastly (in the negative) if I were a Reds’ fan, his defense, tho improved some from Louisville days, would bother me.
Time to Raid the Cubbies??
http://cubsbillygoatblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/cubs-add-4-to-roster-marquez-smith-left.html
I say we take him before someone else does!
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Heeee.....
“The biggest name left unprotected is third base prospect Marquez Smith. It was somewhat surprising to not see his name added to the roster. Smith re-established himself as a legitimate prospect after hitting .314/.384/.574 with 17 HR’s in 303 AB’s at AAA Iowa this year….Thus, for now at least, we have to cross our fingers that Marquez Smith makes it through the Rule 5 draft as a Cub, as he is one prospect I would hate to lose for no reason other than a numbers crunch.”
The dumb Cubs mistake cud be our tasty third base gain!
:=8D
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
There's no way they'd put him on the 25 all year to protect him.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
he would be the ideal back up
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Well, not long term...
But hey, he got to play baseball for the St. Louis Cardinals, that must have been pretty awesome.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'll see you in hell, Blaine Boyer.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I hear it's lovely this time of year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'd take it over this crap weather any day.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
How much do you love Montana now, RR?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 23, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
It's fine as long as you stay inside.....
-8, and the wind chill is at -25.
Lewis Black said it best.
and Moar.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Even in November my air conditioning is running all day....
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
that's awesome, it's going to snow here thru night & fri
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i generally try to not be vulgar on here this early in the day,
but fuck that noise. If I ever had a job that required me to live anywhere north of here, I’d be finding a new damn job.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 23, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and I friggin love Lewis Black.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 23, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
He hitting and D are good...
…and he would def. protect Freese, and maybe even back up Pujols at first. Ideal cost-cowtrolled relatively young (25) roster monkey who cud step in if/when Freese breaks both arms and legs running out a bunt…
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
I've heard that anyone can play 2nd
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Best article layout ever!
Read Bernie’s answer, especially the beginning of his last paragraph, and then directly following him is Bryan Burwell’s answer. You couldn’t script this any better!
NL MVP: Agree with the decision?
Amaury Cazana for RF in 2011 - the legend will never die!
Burwell
is truly a master of comedic timing – and by comedic timing, I mean to say embarrassing himself thoroughly.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
My god, that had to be intentional, didn't it?
At least in terms of editor placement of the responses, if not in terms of telling Bernie what Burwell wrote.
Really the whole sequence is like that
It goes a-b-a-b-a, with the a’s being the “they were basically the same so I guess the voters still put way too much stock in the playoff part of ‘valuable’” midnset and the b’s saying “Pujols didn’t carry his team to the playoff and Votto did, so Votto is more valuable”.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The other a's are Good and Hummel, and Gordon is the other b.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Really? I'd have never guessed that.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Heh. Totally unpredictable, I know!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
burwell... doh.
i fully agree with bernie. the mvp voting style is a bunch of BS. how do you give albert 2/3’s of the triple crown and NOT give him the MVP when he had a better season than votto?
by zoomzoomj88 on Nov 23, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Just curious zoomzoom,
is there anything you DO like? Not just limited to baseball, but anything at all?
i may be a bit of a pessimist on here...
but yeah, i like things. golf, baseball, writing, and i root for my teams diehard (cards & rams mostly). i actually do know what i’m talking about, even though i may seem like an idiot on here (now’s the part where you all laugh and/or go "f’n zoomzoom’, right?)
by zoomzoomj88 on Nov 23, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
hang on, zoomzoom.
I’m a pretty avid golfer, and there is no such thing as “liking” golf. Golf is a sport you hate because you can never beat it. You just keep coming back out of frustration.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
You know,
I’ve read somewhere that Pujols and McGwire are actually pretty good golfers. I would pay money to see them hit their drivers.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
You keep coming back because of that ONE shot each round that is perfect.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
He mostly just likes to bitch
I know, I’m his father
SD
by Gibby45 on Nov 23, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
no kidding, you are zoomzoom's father. I had no idea.
Blessed are they who are pleasant to blog with....
REALZ.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
is this
FACT?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
man, ain't nobody pickin up what i'm puttin' down
oh well.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
IT'S FUCKING COLD, I CAN'T THINK MAN!!!
I’m just banging keys trying to keep the blood flowing.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Another interesting euphemism from RiverRat
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
where's your keg
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I was at work....
it’s getting a workout now.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
HOW IS THAT COMMENT NOT GREEN????
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
It doesn't have any recs.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 23, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no not that one, gibby45's about zoomzoom
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
That doesn't have any recs, either.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
that's what i'm talking about!
it’s has two now & i am one of them, i can’t believe i missed it 6 months ago
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
because it just says "Yes"?
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
and it kills my punchline
but it seems RR’s keys are frozen. so it’s no big thing.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
But they still voted for Votto
Bernie, Goold, and Hummel all say they are shocked that Votto got 31 of 32 first place votes, but then Bernie and Hummel concede they would have (Bernie) or did (Hummel) vote for Votto anyway.
Would it have been so crazy for one of them to add a few sentences that read: “Votto had an outstanding season, but no one can deny that playing in the Great American Ballpark aided those numbers. Pujols put up largely the same numbers in a slight pitcher’s park, just like he does every year. Park factors matter and should be considered when voting.”
The fact that Votto batted better on the road
does not mean that his home numbers were not inflated. It just means that he was actually a pedestrian hitter at home (relatively speaking) but his numbers looked more impressive due to inflation, just not as impressive as his road numbers.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
by Rejuvenile on Nov 23, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm aware
but it certainly deflates the argument a good bit. Not something I’d point out in the context the OP used it.
Not really. Batting better on the road is probably random variation
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
ok, but let's be honest: when are park factors going to matter
in an MVP vote, realistically (esp. given the voters). I’m much more sympathetic to saber stats and the like than the average fan, and even I am a little hesitant to get on board the “he was the most valuable player in baseball, given the park he plays in” train.
I mean, I understand that even most sabermetricically-inclined writers don't include park factors
But if we’re analyzing after the fact, it’s clear that Votto benefited and Pujols opposite-of-benefited from their respective home parks
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Why shouldn't park factors matter?
I mean isn’t that why Todd Helton didn’t win 20 MVPs?
by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
that might have had something to do with playing on sub-.500 teams
Larry Walker, Matt Holliday and Dante Bichette did okay in the voting during good seasons by the team
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
No it doesn't at all
His road numbers have nothing to do with his home numbers.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
the idea is that Votto's talent is being overstated because of GABP inflation
which is simply not the case, as his away numbers show.
Fire John Mozeliak
by purple_haze on Nov 23, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
That was not really my point though
I say clearing that Votto had an outstanding season, and also that park factors should be consider. It seems like you might be running away with the idea that I’m saying Votto somehow is undeserving. My point was that playing in a hitters park helps. Hitting better on the road doesn’t mean to say he did not benefit from GABP; it means that his SLG was boosted to .556 because of playing there.
park factors should never be considered
in an award that is designed to award past performances.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Why?
Do we not try to isolate pitchers performance from his fielders? How is that any different than park factors? It’s all about context.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2010 3:07 AM EST up reply actions
for starters
maybe he wouldn’t try to hit pop ups to left field if he was in another stadium. If he was in petco, he might try to just line it into left-center.
And we shouldn’t remove a pitchers performance from his defense when trying to give out awards for past performance. Because a pitchers defense effects how a pitcher pitches to a batter.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
really what I mean is
awards should be for what DID happen. Not for what MAY HAVE happened given a different set of circumstances.
If you want to use park adjustments or babip to evaluate what a player may do going forward go ahead. But they should not be used to try to normalize previous numbers and then hand out awards.
ps. Hollliday can’t hit away from Cools field.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Again, I kind of agree with you
I think things like batted ball adjustments and park adjustments are probably a very good guess of what would have happened under different circumstances. I don’t have a problem with taking them into account to analyze what happened in the past, but they shouldn’t be taken as indisputable or something.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
...
really what I mean is
awards should be for what DID happen. Not for what MAY HAVE happened given a different set of circumstances.
Again, your understanding of park factors is incorrect. That’s alright, many people misunderstand park factors in the context of WAR and value. I won’t hold it against you for talking out of your ass!
Thankfully, I do know what I’m talking about!! The mathematical calculation of value is a players runs – his replacements runs. We agree right? The more production you could out of a player compared to what you would if that player was injured and you had to replace him with some yutz, the more valuable that player is.
So let’s say Votto hits for a .380 wOBA in Cincy. Normally, the league average hitter would hit for around a .330 wOBA, however, in Cincy, the league average hitter will hit for something like a .340 wOBA. Therefore, Votto is less valuable comparatively (which is the only definition of value – compared to your replacement).
Park Factors are NOT adjusting the player in questions stats, they are adjusting the RUN ENVIRONMENT of that player.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm being over the top condescending, but I'm mostly just fucking with you
I meant no offense.
But seriously, you’re dead wrong on the park factor issue. And it’s the same with defense. If you put an average pitcher in front of the Mariner’s defense, his ERA would be lower.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I think you've actually got a good point
We can’t assume that players don’t take outside factors into account when they try to accomplish things in games. It should logically have some effect on how they approach tasks in a baseball game. I would think it would, anyway. Baseball players are rational actors. I would think this were true in sports just as it is in economics.
However, I still have a couple problems with it. Each team has to play half of its game in its home park. Pujols didn’t get the benefit of deciding to play to the advantages of GABP in half his games, whereas Votto did. It would still be an advantage Votto had access to that Pujols did not have access to, since Pujols’ park is known to not be as helpful to hitters (to the best of our knowledge anyway). For pitchers, even if a pitcher knows his defense well and consciously relies on them where he wouldn’t normally, the defense still deserves some credit for making the plays. The pitcher cannot, alone, make his defense play well behind him, he has to trust them. I feel like this is still giving credit to a pitcher for something he didn’t technically do.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
why don't we have a pitcher factor too?
Pujols didn’t have to face Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Jaime Garcia, or Brad Penny before his grand slam.
Pujols hit .317 / .450 / .492 /.942 against Red’s pitching. Which make up 11% of his PAs
Votto hit .290 / .389 / .452 /.841against Cardinal pitching. Which make up 11% of his PAs
Not to mentions the Cardinals luck in missing Aces throughout the month of April.
As far as pictures, I’m completely Okay with taking in More stats, as long as you are doing things like saying, “oh, Wainwright and Carpenter has a better defense so I’m going weigh some of their stats less.” Looking at you Law.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
According to Baseball Prospectus
Pujols faced pitchers who gave up a weighted .247/.330/.388 slash line. Votto faced pitchers who gave up a .243/.326/.376 slash line.
Votto had the easier amount of pitchers faced, so his stats should be adjusted down even further (or rather his replacements stats should be adjusted up).
I agree that pitchers and batters faced should be taken into account, but usually they tend to even out over a full season unlike park factors and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
um...
Pujols faced pitchers who gave up a weighted .247/.330/.388 slash line. Votto faced pitchers who gave up a .243/.326/.376 slash line.
How are Votto’s pitchers easier when they gave up a better line?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
But the park adjustments are run based because it's about value, not about skill or effect
The idea behind park factors is that if you put an average hitter in Votto’s park, he would add more runs to his team than an average hitter in Petco. The run environment is higher in Cincy meaning that everyone’s stats will be inflated. Joey Votto hitting for a .380 wOBA in Cincy is less valuable than Adrian Gonzolez hitting for a .380 wOBA in Petco.
Also, yeah, pitchers pitch to their defense to some (small) degree, but they can’t control how well their defense plays.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
His away numbers show that he hit better away than at home
They show nothing about how his home numbers are inflated. We know the single season home/road splits mean nothing going forward, which means they mean nothing about the specific park factors of the player involved. If Votto has like 5 more seasons of better away numbers than home numbers, then yeah we can say that he isn’t getting a big GAB boost. But right now, we should assume that he’s like virtually every other hitter – his home numbers are inflated by GAB.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2010 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
but i wasn't commenting on how he hit.
i was commenting on his talent. i know you can’t show true talent in a season’s worth of away stats but you can’t count his home park advantage against him because the lack of a split.
Fire John Mozeliak
Yes, you can
And I’m telling you why.
The split between his home/road numbers means nothing (or very close to nothing) about his true ability, right? So that means there was no skill involved in the split, but rather just random variation.
The two are independent of eachother because of this. Therefore, you have to adjust his home numbers independently of his road numbers. And it’s obvious that he was more likely effected by GAB than he was hurt by them.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Where's everyone at today?
Part of me wonders if somebody voted Howard 2nd just to mess with us.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I wouldn't mind signing Bartlett on the cheap.
That being said, I’m still rather agitated that MoRussa are choosing to upgrade SS rather than 2B this winter. Or from an internal perspective, am I the only person who feels that Descalso could easily match, and quite possibly outperform Skip there next season? Yes I know that Skip’s value (however limited) is increased exponentially at 2B, but when you’re not hitting and providing piss-poor defense, what good are you? -0.2 WAR it would seem.
Skip leading the league in tightest batting gloves should not factor into this decision.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
It would be a trade, not a signing.
Bartlett will make $5MM or $6MM in arbitration, I would think.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Just saw that....
and I hereby change my opinion. Far too much for a replacement that would, at best, be a modest upgrade over Ryan.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I really like Bartlett
but I would only do the trade if we were kind of fleecing them
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
nope
there is a great chance skip outperforms descalasco… .649 MLE if I remember correctly
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 24, 2010 3:50 AM EST up reply actions
On the MVP,
it’s become pretty apparent to me that Albert is costing himself awards by his very greatness.
When he has an Albert Pujols year, it’s expected. When Joey Votto has an Albert Pujols year, he gets 31 out of 32 first place votes.
Basically, the baseball writers are now awarding other players for having a year like Albert does EVERY FREAKING YEAR.
Hmm, Albert hit .320 with 40 homers, 100+ RBI’s, 100+ runs, and an OPS over 1.000. Yeah, he does that every year. Wait, Joey Votto had a year like that too!? Let’s give him the MVP!!!!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
But Votto led his team to the playoffs
and then the long playoff run… errr this is awkward.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
Pujols' achilles heel
is that he has yet to lead his team to getting swept in three games by the Phillies… in October!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
But he wont he MVP that year
I’m just talking about 2010. Phillies, Dodgers, whatever. It changes year to year (just like MVP criteria).
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Fun with "stats" I just made up.
I know this has probably been done before, but since my meetings cancelled this morning, I decided to look at Albert’s MVP finishes. In his 10 seasons in the league, he’s won the MVP or finished second 7 times. He’s finsihed 3rd, 4th, and 9th in the other three years. Essentially, Albert’s been one of the top 4 players in the league, by the voters estimation anyway, EVERY YEAR BUT ONE IN HIS CAREER. He’s NEVER been out of the top 10.
Seeing that, I decided to make up a little rating system that’s horribly non-scientific and flawed in about a bajillion ways, but fun for me nonetheless. I set up a point system – winning the MVP is worth 10 points, 2nd is worth 9, etc, all the way down to 10th being worth 1 point. I totaled the points, and divided by number of years in the player’s career.
Pujols’ average result yearly – 8.2, or rougly the equivalent of finishing just slightly worse than second place every season.
Other notables –
Votto – 3.33 (1 MVP in 3 seasons, SSS issues, probably)
A-Rod – 4 (3 MVPs)
Jeter – 2 (Surprisingly good, considering he’s never won an MVP)
Mantle – 4.28 (3 MVPs)
Musial – 4.18 (3 MVPs)
DiMaggio – 5.38 (3 MVPs)
Aaron – 3.96 (1 MVP)
Ruth – 0.95 (1 MVP, a 5th and a 6th place finish in 22 seasons. I think the numbers may be a bit off here, as BR doesn’t have any other info for MVP finishes.)
Williams – 4.84 (2 MVPs)
Short version – Pujols is REALLY FRICKING GOOD, and compares favorably against some of the historical greats. Nothing we didn’t already know. He’ll probably fall off a bit during his decline phase, but damn, does his MVP consistency look good right now.
by dronemc on Nov 23, 2010 11:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ruth actually never won the BBWAA award
he did win the League award in 1923, but that award had restrictions on it, such as previous winners were ineligible to win it a second time; that award was only given out in the AL from 1922-28, and the BBWAA award didn’t start until 1931. Also, based on your system, what is BigHead Bonds’ number?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I've been calling Elijah Wood
trying to convince him to erase Barry Bonds from baseball’s memories.
He hasn’t returned my phone calls. I hope his caller ID works.
Why Elijah Wood?
Are you perhaps thinking of his doppelganger, Daniel Radcliffe?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Elijah Wood would get his co-workers to come over and hook baseball up to Lacuna, Inc. equipment
Daniel Radcliffe would call Emma Watson over (because she’s the best at charms and such) to cast Obliviate on baseball.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I presume.
*File photo of a hobbit somehow using a landline
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Forgot he was in this movie...
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Ditto.
Totally forgot about this movie, as well. I was thinking of what Emma Watson did in Deathly Hallows, Pt. 1, and assumed that was what clank was thinking of.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
You get no argument from me.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah...
now about that hair…. grow it back!
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 24, 2010 3:53 AM EST up reply actions
Award Shares
Baseball-reference actually provides a similar stat called award share which takes the number of points the mvp candidate received and divides it by the maximum points available; i.e. a unanimous MVP would receive 100% award share (Pujols in 2009) or a voter with 31 of 32 1st place votes and 1 2nd place vote would receive 99% (Votto in 2010).
Right now Pujols is 3rd on the all time list for career win shares (6.51) behind Barry Bonds (9.3) and Stan Musial (6.96).
I don't get the
“Votto should have won but Albert should have gotten more 1st place votes” argument…in theory shouldn’t Pujols received zero 1st place votes? Or rather :
Votto: 32 1st place votes,
Pujols: 32 2nd place votes,
Halladay: 32 3rd place votes
It just doesnt make since to say he didnt deserve to win but he deserved more 1st place votes…Not picking on anyone in particular just strikes me as odd…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
I think the logic is this...
Votto deserved to win, nobody will complain about him winning. However, Pujols deserved the award just as much. Both had their own arguments.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I think the argument makes sense because there aren't clearly defined criteria for voting
There are 32 voters from all over the country with their own individual criteria. There were enough statistical categories where Pujols was ahead of Votto that I’d have thought someone besides his hometown writer would have put him at #1. If you look at the past unanimous or nearly unanimous winners, they generally clearly stood out from the competition. But given how close Pujols’ and Votto’s numbers were, it seems strange that this vote was almost unanimous.
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 23, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
That's probably a good explanation
but I think a more important question is who didn’t vote Albert #2? Who’s the idiot (from Philly, no doubt) that voted Howard #2? How does anyone in their right mind vote Albert #6?
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, if you are trying to build up out rage
this would be a much better place to start then “Votto should have won but Albert should have gotten more 1st place votes.”
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
And I'm not upset that Albert didn't win
Votto was just as deserving. And the end result (Votto, Albert, Cargo) is what I expected and think can be justified. It is bothersome that some folks apparently take their responsibility lightly or are really just that stupid to vote as they did.
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, there's always got to be at least one completely horseshit ballot
Witness the guy that voted Bronson Arroyo fifth for Cy Young this year.
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 23, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
One of these things is not like the other
He learned on a golf course somewhere in Mexico — his foursome included Cardinals right-hander Chris Carpenter, Phillies backup first baseman Mike Sweeney and Padres righty Chris Young — he was the unanimous 2010 National League Cy Young Award winner.
by WizardofOz1982 on Nov 23, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I understand if you thought he would get more 1st place votes,
I thought that too…but to say he should have gotten them but Votto deserved the award is the part that is odd in my brain. I would have voted for Pujols because they were so damn close and I am a Cardinals fan first. I just feel this argument is more meant to stir up outrage than actually be logical.
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
I don't think he "should" have in any sort of moral sense, and I don't really
feel any outrage about it. But it just seems like a bizarre result given their numbers, and compared to past MVP votes. I’m perfectly fine with Votto winning, but there are enough reasons to like Pujols over him that I find it odd that virtually no one did. I think we’re probably more or less in agreement.
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 23, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's more surprising given what we know about the voting process
Plenty of writers voted for Ryan Howard 1st in 2008, for example, despite the fact that he was nowhere near as good as Albert. And gee, I think he happened to lead in homers and RBI that year, hmm. Pujols still won, and I agree with the result, just not the process.
This year I don’t really agree or disagree with the result since you basically have to give the award to one of two equally deserving candidates. I merely find it surprising that almost all the voters happened to think Votto was more deserving this year.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Why isn't this obvious? Or maybe it is, and we're just not coming out and saying it...
It’s clear that every voter outside of St. Louis would rather vote for anyone other than Pujols. Those 7 awards that Bonds won are not to be tolerated again, especially considering the whole PEDs hoopla surrounding those awards. I think the writers outside of St. Louis are tired of hearing just how great Albert is, and given someone who had similar numbers, they’ll vote for that guy.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
It's really not strange at all...it follows binary voting patterns to a T
Here is something I wrote in a comment last week to bgh’s excellent fanpost on all things pujolsian:
In any event, I actually think Votto will win the MVP vote quite handily. IMO, the similarity between the players (same position, same division/league, very, very similar stats) actually increases the likelihood that it won’t be a close vote because there remains one clear differentiating fact between the players – Votto’s team beat Pujols’s team for a playoff spot. It’s similar to what happened in the Wainwright/Halladay vote (though the effect won’t be quite as great because of Pujols’s reputation)
The voting pattern and the players involved was never going to lead to a close vote – Votto and Pujols had extremely close performances last year (it was as close to a “toss-up” as reasonably possible) with one obvious differentiator that was important to the voters – the Reds made the playoffs.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
By very traditional metrics, Pujols was rated the better player:
He won the GG and he led the league in RBI and HR.
By very advanced metrics, they were very close with Pujols slightly ahead on average and their defense basically equal:
bWAR Pujols 7.2, Votto 6.2
fWAR Pujols 7.3 Votto 7.4
wRC+ Pujols 169 Votto 170
However, by somewhat advanced and especially non-park adjusted metrics, Votto was the league leader:
OBP Pujols .414 Votto .424 (Votto lead the league)
OPS Pujols 1.011 Votto 1.024 (Votto lead the league)
OPS+ Pujols 173 Votto 174
Considering that both the traditional stats, and the very cutting edge stats gave the edge to Pujols, it seems odd, especially to people like Bernie who probably expected others to go with the traditional stats, that almost no one actually picked Pujols. When Ryan Howard recieves a second place vote, you know some people are using some unorthodox method, yet Votto’s award was so damn close to unanimous it just seems very coincidental.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
Frankly,
I think a lot of the Votto vote was just a vote that was aimed at novelty. Everyone knows Pujols is the best. Everyone just kind of had a feeling Votto deserved it. Everyone didn’t expect everyone else to have the same sort of feeling.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
along the lines of
‘Votto had an MVP-caliber season, better give him the award, since he most likely wont do that ever again, while Pujols will probably win 5 of the next 8’
babip!!!
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
his BABIP dropped from 2009 to 2010
yet his rate stats improved.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 23, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Votto is Malone to Pujols's Jordan, in my mind.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think it's pretty obvious Pujols is running against his former accomplishments
every year now as well. I think the fact that he had, by his standards, a pretty pedestrian if not slightly down year hurt him. That, and the fact the Cardinals didn’t make the playoffs.
So no interest in Marquez Smith???
:=8/
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
check him out....
http://cubsstats.blogspot.com/2010/10/who-is-marquez-smith.html
and he’s unprotected – someone call MO!
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
He even made it to Fangraphs!
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/szymborskis-mles-five-notable-triple-a-batters/
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Massive interest in Marquez Smith.
He and Jeremy Horst are my two biggest wants from the Rule V right now, and both have the bonus of being farmhands for division rivals who could really fill big needs for our team.
Per Fangraphs:
Name: Marquez Smith, 25, 3B
Organization: Chicago (NL) Level: Triple-A
Actual: 341 PA, .314/.384/.574 (.358 BABIP), .412 wOBA
zMLE: 341 PA, .278/.340/.502 (.317 BABIP), .366 wOBA
Notes
• So far as I can tell, has never, ever, never, ever, never been on a prospect list of any sort. Or, at least not recently he hasn’t.
• Per Scout.com, was drafted a total of four times: 36th round of 2003 draft by Twins, 46th round of 2004 draft by Angels, 35th round of 2006 draft by Cubs, and, finally, by Cubs in eighth round of 2007 draft from Clemson University.
• Finished at +15 runs afield in 2008, per TotalZone, and +22 runs in 2009.
Bat that could be above average, and above average with the glove?! Where the F do I sign up?
Horst‘s fangraphs page, including a 2010 line that had him FIP 1.99 at AA and 2.78 at AAA. This guy may never fill Dennys Reyes’s waistband, but he can sure as hell fill his shoes.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
Smith cud give Tastee a run for his moolah RIGHT NOW....
…much less at Spring Training. He would be a huge scoop for us, WE MUST GET HIM!!!!
:=8D
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Tastee is just so damn far from a sure thing.
In order of how much I trust each player to produce,
Pujols,
Holliday,
Yadi,
Rasmus,
Ryan’s glove,
Craigjay,
Freese,
Ryan’s bat/Skip Schumaker
Freese seems to be recovering very well, but in addition to his injury history, his 2010 season was built upon a .370 BABIP- higher than Joey Votto and Albert Pujols. At the very worst, Smith flops in spring training and gets sent home. At best we end up with two legitimate third basemen and one of them ends up platooning at second base with Skippy.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
I'm sure Freese will show up to ST
in the best shape of his career…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
CAN HE PLAY SECOND BASE
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
interestingly...
…I’ve herd talk in the Cubs organization that they were thinking about trying him out at second in AAA this year…
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
how do the order work?
worst to first?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
i imagine he's gone, then
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
it's the fucking cubs
and if we do find out something is wrong with him, we just send him back
it’s a lottery ticket that you can get a refund on if it isn’t a winner
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Cubs screw up....
they decided to protect 4 catchers, so it would seem
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Cardinals have signed Raul Valdes, LH reliever
to a minor league contract. He had a 4.91 ERA for the Mutts last year, and 56/27 K/BB ratio in 58+ innings. He had been outrighted off the Mets’ 40-man earlier this month.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions
Good move:
Valdes vs lefties 2010: 11.57 K/9 1.29 BB/9 2.78 xFIP
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
the next joe thurston, everybody!
/facepalm
by zoomzoomj88 on Nov 23, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
He's more valuable than Thurston...
because at the very least, this guy could throw BP to Amaury Cazana.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
this doesn't even make sense
if you’re going to obnoxiously gripe about everything, at least try to make sense
i meant that
he’ll prob. be like thurston – the unknown guy who might be on our big league roster that’s a waste of a spot. ala stav.
by zoomzoomj88 on Nov 23, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
...Why wouldn't you have just said "the next Dennys Reyes, everybody!"
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Nov 23, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
seems like a potional Loogy
and after the diners performance last year, i’m okay with bring in a guy on a minor league contract for depth there.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I'm guessing
A slider potion restores health points and mana points, whereas a fastball potion only restores health points.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He might be a nice cheap option as a loogy though
Thurston was way over-exposed, but Valdes has a split which would lead me to assume he’d be a loogy candidate, and a cheap one at that. The Cards clearly prefer to save money in the bullpen.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
this is how all loogys should be found...
good job, mo.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
+1
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
Sooo... apparently the Cards just signed someone named Raul Valdes to a minor league contract
He’s a LHP who was in the Mets’ bullpen last year. I’ve never heard of him, which probably isn’t that surprising. He strikes out almost one batter per inning, but walks about half that many.
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 23, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions
25 BBs against righthanders comparied to 3 against left handers
Assuming he is being used as a loogy, a lot of those walks more than likely came from the dug out as “don’t intentionally walk this guy, but don’t think him anything he could hit either.”
Of course, I’ve never seen him pitch.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Yeah, I hadn't noticed how crazy his splits are
a 9:1 K:BB vs. lefties and a roughly 1:1 K:BB vs. righties.
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 23, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.
walk rate for loogys can get quickly skewed based on context. his walk rate against lefties (the people he’s actually trying to retire), looks good.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
but then
we’re just splitting a small sample into an even smaller sample. let’s just say that it’s incredibly difficult to evaluate relievers, especially reliever specialists
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Which is also why is makes sense to not spend money on them if you don't have to
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yes, I suppose you could just throw up your hands when trying to evaluate
players who don’t have huge sample sizes from which to analyze….
Or you could make reasonable inferences from the avilable data and look for ways to investigate further (like going back through the context for his walks to see if he was pitching around people to get to another lefty batter or before another reliever came in).
I think I’ll stick with the latter, as I hope the Cardinals do when they have a chance to pick up players on the cheap, like this one, who might be useful.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
actually
when dealing with small sample size I think it’s better to rely on scouts. I.E, how is that slider working and is he hitting his spots? Fast ball has zip. etc. etc.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I'll zip your fast ball
wait
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
call me.
er …
wait.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
What kind of coffee do you drink in the morning?
…wait
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Dear journal
Today, Nov 23rd in the Year 2010, at exactly 2:23 PM PST. VEP and I agreed on something besides Aaron Miles sucks.
Evilfrog
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
looking at it again, I'm not sure it is an unreliable sample size in this context. 25 BBs to righties and only three to lefties in 58 inings?
I’d have to break out my HP 48G, but that looks pretty significant.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
So much better than any TI. I've got the 48GX.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Works 50% the time,
every time.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
OT: Browser Help
I can’t access Gmail at work but I can access iGoogle with an added Gmail gadget. This worked fine for me in the past but the problem I’m having now is that Firefox is giving me the “Untrusted Connection” message. I know there’s a button at the bottom to view & approve the certificate but the Gadget cuts that off so I can’t get to the button. Does anyone know how I can approve the certificate in another fashion?
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
only thing i've got
is it looks like you can import certificates. if you can access it on IE, export those certificates and import them into FF?
i’ve got a similar problem with gmail not loading in FF or chrome while at work. i just use IE when i need to check my email
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Firefox packages the data in a way that it gets through my works firewall
IE does not. I’ll have to export them at home and send them to work I guess. . .
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I don't suppose it's possible to just adjust the settings on Firefox?
I know that sounds silly and obvious, but sometimes people don’t think of the obvious. Though, if it’s at work maybe you’d be barred from adjusting that sort of setting anyway.
Also, you’re a robot. Can’t you just hook yourself up to the computer and tell it what to do? And while you’re at it, shut down all the garbage mashers on the detention level!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
No! Shut them all down!
Stupid offseason.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 23, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I have full access to the firefox settings.
I can get to the settings that determine certificate verification but I don’t see a way to manually add certificates or disable that feature.
The certificate expired on 11/18. Grrr. . . .this just gets more frustrating.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Ah
Dang. I honestly don’t remember too much about Firefox anymore. Used to use it at work, but I use Chrome now. I was shooting for one of those “hidden in plain sight” solutions. Oh well.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
nvm
I found the certificate addition — it’s buried about three buttons deep in the settings — and after adding it, they’ve adjusted the firewall to block that gadget. Bastards.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
This happened to my igoogle this morning
It couldn’t play well with using https only for the gmail widget. Cleared up after an hour… no idea what it was about.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Victor Martinez signed by Tigers
Team St. Louis played in the World Series that one time have signed Victor Martinez
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/tigers-reach-agreement-with-victor-martinez.html
Any opinions, i thought he’d get a bigger contract, even though he’s a 1Bman or DH in reality.
You can't spell 'Inebriated' without 'Aranathor'
Forsooth and Verily
Bigger?
If you’re right about his position, seems like what he signed will be an overpay.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I'd say it's an overpayment.
I’m a fan of Alex Avila in the not-so long term, and I feel as though the Tigers signed Martinez more as a developmental stopgap for him at catcher for this season. I’d be willing to bet that Martinez plays cumulatively twice as much at DH than at C over the duration of this contract.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
HFS
HFS!!
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
terrible.
good for sabean for rolling the dice on huff and it paying off big, but he should leave the table and cash out now.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sabean seems to be falling into a "results justify the roster composition" trap.
Huff is going to be 34. I doubt he wOBA’s in the .380’s next season or the season after.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
To be fair
Huff seems to have genuinely change his approach this year. Walked a lot more this year than ever before, and seemed to be more selective in general. This is at least different than signing him coming off his nice 2008 season, for example.
never was that much of a fan of the MVP award
I’d much rather have Pujols, you can keep Votto, Reds!
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 1:44 PM EST reply actions
The IFAP Club
http://www.joesportsfan.com/?p=6331
Throw out the 2007 season and that number becomes even more ridiculous.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
IFAP?
couldn’t have come up with a better name?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Yeah, this is the internet after all...
But it’s JoeSportsFan, so I’m gonna guess it was intentional.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I agree on it being intentional.
I’d also add that this is probably the first “IFAP” club formed outside of 4Chan.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
So VEB is already on top of the Valdes sign, as expected. I found out about it a few minutes ago on MLBTR here:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/cardinals-sign-raul-valdes.html
The real story: Since when are batters referred to as “southpaws”? I’ve been a baseball fan for a loooooong time and I’ve never heard the term used for batters. Doesn’t that make the false presumption that all left-handed batters also throw left-handed? The kallawaykid ain’t buyin’ it!
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
Aside from the false presumption. . .
it also ignores the positional reason that left-handed pitchers are called ‘southpaws’, namely, that in most ballparks near the turn of the centurym home plate was on the west end of the field, so a left-handed pitcher used the arm/hand/paw on the south side of his body.
The same would not apply to a left-handed batter. In fact, his left arm would be on the west side of his body. . . although he would be standing on the south side of home plate.
There are other theories as to how the term originated, but this seems to be the best-supported one by far.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 23, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the "southpaw" namesake came from boxing...
that’s what I get for trusting everything Mickey Goldmill says.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Suggested Reading
Try reading the Southpaw by Mark Harris. A great baseball book for boys. I tried to swith hands when I read it in the 1950s, but that too failed.
by Remember Kenny B on Nov 23, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Also...
…quite a few MLBTR peoples have been on this “Cards gotta trade for Jose Reyes” kick. I’m not buying it. He’s too pricey, a question mark for 2011 and would cost the farm. Where does VEB nation land on this topic? If you’ve already discussed, link me and I’ll read-up on it. Just need to know where me and these other folks land on the whackometer.
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
not sure what it would cost, but it would be
exciting
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
Mets are supposedly not going to shop him until the season gets underway and they know what they have
And then they’ll either shop or sign him.
Thought #3, then I'm back to work:
Not a knock on Votto. Just an Observation: Does he not have the most forgettable face in baseball? It’s kinda like the generic “create a player” face in The Show. I wonder if the Reds marketing team will take any initiative on this now that he’s MVP. Maybe have him do a one-on-one w/Spiezio.
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
He's got a slight Jersey Shore look about him.
Spiezio could easily help extrapolate that.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
he should get a face tat
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
i think most players should get face tats
Can you imagine Yadi going all Tyson on his face? Runners wouldn’t even try to steal.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
he has the racing stripes for that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
true that
also, runners can foolishly continue to run against Yadi…and get mowed down like the samurai in that Tom Cruise movie.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Wouldn't the catcher's mask cover up the tattoo?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
when he rips it off, they'd realize their mistake
?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
...
Meanwhile, the Cardinals are apparently interested in Jason Bartlett, which seems like a move that’s being contemplated two years too late. Bartlett had a huge 2009—.320/.389/.490 with 14 home runs and 30 stolen bases—but the rest of his career looks similar enough to 2010 to give me serious pause about 2011. This year he’s not a bad player to have, but he’s not a great player to get.
This isn’t really how it works. I understand the cognitive process to assume that if a player has one really good year in a sea of mediocrity, that one good year was a fluke – but that’s not how it works statistically. If you view his 2009 as a continuous range of performance along with 2008 and 2010 (you would weight the most recent PA higher – seasons are only a rough proxy for this), he’s like a better player going forward than both his career numbers and his non 2009 numbers.
And that's about a 2.5 WAR player - before the league adjustment.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
why would he get better?
he’s 31 and by most statistical and visual accounts his defense seems worse.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
What do you mean?
His weighted fWAR the past three years is 2.4. And I think any subtraction to take from aging has to be mitigated by moving from the hardest division in baseball to the easiest.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
It's not that hard to hit and play ss in the AL East...
if you’re on the Rays. There are lots of guys to tee off on – beckett, burnett, vasquez, millwood, dicek, guthrie, etc… He’s trending sharply downward in the field and his hitting is consistently 320 woba with a huge blip in 2009.
Even if you don’t subscribe to the “blip” theory of baseball statistics, you’re still paying prospects and $5 million for one year of David Eckstein/Ryan Theriot. Plus he won’t come cheap because he’s wildly overrated.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
"It's not that hard to hit and play ss in the AL East..."
LOL WUT
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
maybe he means...
they have bad pitchers and slow runners in the AL Easy..???
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
The four non-Rays teams...
in the AL East really didn’t pitch all that well in 2010. The Yanks and Orioles were actually quite bad.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
And they were even worse in the year Bartlett hit well...
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
by hazel on Nov 23, 2010 10:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
at $5M, we'd likely not be getting any surplus value
…compared to boog if boog is ~1.5 WAR. this is without counting the player(s) lost in the trade to get bartlett.
i figured this is what danup was alluding to with this:
This year he’s not a bad player to have, but he’s not a great player to get.
What does a win cost this offseason?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And we could move Barlett to second
At any rate, paying market value for a win isn’t the worst thing.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
as long as your face is around.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Unlike your face.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 23, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Not if we gave them Boog in the trade
Which is what I fear would happen. If the club is dead set on getting a MIF that can, ostensibly, upgrade the SS position, then I’d just as soon we end up signing Uribe or another FA (are there any worth looking at?) so that BRyan doesn’t have to go the other way in a trade. (I’m making the supposition that he would go to whomever in any trade)
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
it depends on the talent required to get bartlett
Ryan/Bartlett starting, Schu on the bench: ~5 WAR @ ~$7.5M
Bartlett/Schu starting, Ryan on the bench: ~5 WAR @ ~$7.5M
Ryan/Schu starting, TGreene on the bench: ~3.5 WAR @ ~$3M
So we net ~1.5 WAR for ~$4.5M without considering the WAR/cost of the players sent to TB. If we could get bartlett for a redundant piece in our system, it would make sense. i’m not so sure we really have many valuable, redundant pieces.
you might move bartlett to 2B
and i’d second the idea, but tony shoots it down before it gets off the ground. if not injured, skippie will lead stl in GS at 2B, for the 3rd season in a row. bartlett would play at brendans expense.
by ball in play on Nov 23, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Bernie addressed this today in his note
here & there’s one thing i really agree with & proves the writers really are asshats. it’s that if Votto played for the Cards & Albert for the reds, the reds still would have won the division. well duh, if Albert played in the great american launching pad he’d hit 90 home runs, drive in 250RBI’s avg .700 slg .800, with a ,1000 OPB be a 500WAR player. the fact that Votto actually preformed worse there than on the road should have given the writers a pause & led them to dig deep into his numbers. but did they do that? no, they did what they always do & gave the award to a player because his team was better than another players team. that’s what bugs me so much about this. i don’t mind that Votto won, it bugs me why he won & that it was a straussycorn vote away from being unanimous.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i was just coming here to post that link
bernie couldn’t be more correct. pujols wins the mvp if his teammates don’t fall flat on their faces in late august and september.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 23, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
thanksgiving
Weinberg and third basement David Freese helped pass out turkeys to the hungry at Kingdom House at 1321 South 11th Street on Tuesday morning.
Weinberg then deflected two frozen turkeys and a pallet of cranberry sauce from Freese’s ankles.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2010 5:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
also: way to go on the typo, KSDK
unless…. they know something….
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
if you can't trust spell check
who can you trust? apparently not your editor.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
they have editors??!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
LOL
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Jeter
As someone who hates the Yankees and hates Jeter even more, I am having a smashing good time watching their contract struggles. The Yankees created this monster by over-hyping and over-paying Mr. Jeter for the past 10 years. Now, Jeter believes his own hype and feels like he should continue to get overpaid when his skills have eroded. (undeserved Gold Glove aside) I snicker when owner Hank tells Captain Charisma to check out that free agent market. Well, Derek, go ahead…you will be lucky to get a 2 year, $20 million deal to play 3rd base somewhere…unless those Red Sockers up there in bean town just want to aggravate the Bronx Bullies. Good luck getting $20,000,000+ per year for about 4 more years like you want! Yes, the Yankees will have to get by without their CAPTAIN. (How will they manage that? Their $200 million payroll can’t possibly cover that hole.) And Derek may have to downgrade to former supermodels.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
Downgrade? Naw...
He’ll just hit up some old buddies for chicks.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Receeding Hairline Powers Activate!!!
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Nov 23, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Isn't he dating Minka Kelly?
I don’t think I can mock the hairline of a fellow who is dating her.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Nah, they're still just dating.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
for a second I thought they were playing dreamcast
then I remembered what 360 controllers look like and lost all respect for them again.
I'm perplexed by Derek Jeter's ear.
It appears that his whole head is receding.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 23, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
stop staring at it dear god we may lose another one
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
but it looks like an elf's ear
plus he has the fresh prince flat top hair goin on. Very bizarre.
by peppermartin on Nov 23, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
now , wait, which combo makes the supermodel coat herself in whipped cream?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Nov 23, 2010 10:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
if i knew that i'd be king of the world
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
by gdm426 on Nov 23, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it might work
you just don’t get to watch
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
he is starting to look like Kid from Kid N Play
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
by TomCat009 on Nov 24, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So, are we all in agreement that Jeter looks like...
a mash-up of Kid, Fresh Prince, and an elf?
Granted, I’d deal with looking like that as well if I had his income and Minka Kelly
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Nov 24, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
I keep thinking you're
The Continental
will have to think of another nickname besides an abbreviation
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Damnit, clank.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 24, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I finally found it in my heart to vote "50" on the fan satisfaction meter
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 7:42 PM EST reply actions
still clicking 10.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
dayum
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Trevor Hoffman has curly fries
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
But, he agreed not to eat them.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
makes sense
CJ Beatty loves the food, and hates the dentist.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I would take Zimmerman over Headley any day
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/substituting-drs-for-uzr-in-war/
interesting concept
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 8:27 PM EST reply actions
'87 WS Game 7 on ESPN Classic now.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:19 PM EST reply actions
Secret Weapon!
Boy, was he skinny.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Steve freaking Lake, ladies and gents!
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Cards up 2 - 0 after 1.
I feel good about this.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Uh oh.
What was Whitey thinking, putting a rookie out there for Game 7?
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Buy-A-Vowel wasn't happy about that call.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
Buy another K, Hrbek
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
That was a nice throw by Coleman.
Baylor was safe, though. Lake didn’t get the tag down.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
2 - 1.
Magrane left that on a tee.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Just watching Ozzie make a routine play to his left is nice.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck you, Jim Lindeman.
He was out, though. Bah.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
And Puckett takes Cox first pitch to right center.
His glorious mustache couldn’t save him. Tie game.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, another nice throw by Coleman.
And Lake held on after getting plowed at the plate.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Herr was safe!
And he was interfered with!
And the pitch was a balk!
Fuck you umps!
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, I know how this game ends.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Shhh. Don't spoil it.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Lindeman killed Dumbledore!
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
What?
All this time I thought it was Curt Ford!
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
Here comes Worrell
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Cox lets the ump have it as he walks off.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Aw. Run scores on grounder to third.
They can come back, though. They’re only down by one.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
You might want to pour a drink.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That's pretty much true all the time.
Also- Oh, Jack Clark. If only you weren’t riding the bench with an owchie ankle.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
he's practicing looking like a pumpkin
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
It was a sad day when he was eaten by the king of the oopa-loompas
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Blyleven looking pretty relaxed,
sticking his tongue out at the camera.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
maybe his ankle
was really just a cover for having poopy in his pants
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, oh. 4 - 2 now.
I don’t like where this is going.
If Lake makes that catch at the plate, it saves a run.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Top 9, last chance Birdos.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Reardon in to try to close it out for the Twinks.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Herr pops out to shallow center.
Puckett tracks it down.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Curt Ford is built like a whippet.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
keep us informed
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Pendelton on deck!
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
McGee grounds to third.
They… they lost. I thought sure they were going to pull it out this time.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
And now, here's The Fonz
to talk about reverse mortgages.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
he what
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Damn, that was a nice trophy that year.
Also, Reggie Jackson covering the trophy ceremony. Excellent.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Pops out to third. Two away.
McGee up to save us all.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 23, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby Knight is talking baseball....
Thanks TLR.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
For those who like My Bloody Valentine, check these guys out... :=8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anOYvY2eFlI
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
And here is a criminally-ignored band also in the MBV vein. Great stuff!! :=8D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnLNc-F4_8I
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
it seems like a lot of bands in that genre are not as noisy as mbv
I like some of the more stripped down stuff that is obviously influenced by them, but you’d think there would be more of the noisy types.
how do you feel about Medicine? that band was pretty cool… certainly more hit and miss than my bloody valentine. also, have you heard Jesu? that stuff is amazing. they’re the only ones I can think of doing the wall of sound similar to mbv.
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
danke
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
has anybody heard about the hottest new conspiracy theory?
something to the effect of the united states is not a country, it is a corporation run by the IMF and the original constitution was thrown out in 1871
hit up the google if you like conspiracy theories
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
international mother f*ers
?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
heck yeah
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
also the civil war
was orchestrated by international bankers and had nothing to do with slavery. hot stuff
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Black Market Baby!!!! :=8D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUdffEVgMqw
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
This video contains content from WMG, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 23, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm, works ok fer me. Anyone for Gun Club??? :=8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87xHDJKETwg
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
One Moore - Palomar!!!! :=8D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhJt8AERNdM
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
dead here, too
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Impossible Mission Force?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
For you "Dick in a Toaster" folks...
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
OT: saw the harry potter movie tonight, it was okay.
but emma watson is hot. it cannot be overstated.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 23, 2010 11:56 PM EST reply actions
Got SBN'd trying to respond earlier.
Saw this at a midnight showing Thursday night, thought it was better than ok, and yeah, Emma Watson is a hot hottie, and she even looks good with short hair. Check out these two photos of her.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 24, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
still like her better with the long her
but she can rock the pixie look too.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 24, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I thought it was one of the more compelling movies from a personal relationship standpoint
A little slow paced though. I enjoyed it though.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
yeah um no.
Grow the hair back ladies. All of you. You all look better with long hair. (I realize that ladies can say that all guys look better with say… six packs, or without mustaches. ..)
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
by Evilfrog on Nov 24, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagree.
Something about a girl with short hair makes me instantly much more interested in them than I would otherwise be.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
Sorry hazel,
the frog is right on this. Now, conform.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i think it depends on the skull shape.
and sometimes, the lip shape.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 24, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I think I'm with Hazel on this
pixie cuts, pageboys, yea, I usually like those. (Of course, in Ms. Watson’s case, I don’t think it makes much of a difference, no complaints either way.)
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 24, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Not all of us care what men think we look like.
In fact, most fashion and whatnot is for other women.
My husband says he prefers me to have longer hair. But when I have a pixie cut he cannot keep his hands off of my hair.
At any rate, this is turning into an Emma Watson fan blog.
Getting a tad redundant the last few days.
Plus there are probably dozens of fan sites better suited to your Emma Watson “needs.”
no it's not
and i fall in the pro long hair group. long full bodied hair with a few curls is just so damn sexy
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
OT Anybody got any tips on the turkey stuffing ? i'm tired of the regular bread ,celery ,onion etc .
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Nov 24, 2010 12:32 AM EST reply actions
look for the recipes with nuts in them
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 24, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
no WC in Calif thanks GOB's
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Nov 24, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
WEAK
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 24, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
bacon
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 24, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
i've done thanksgiving with people who put chorizo in their stuffing
it was excellent.
Fire John Mozeliak
by purple_haze on Nov 24, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
thanks , my brother bagged a wild turkey yesterday , i'll see if i can get a recipe with chorizo
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Nov 24, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Brine that thing........
trust me. Wild turkey’s have got to be one of the “gamiest” birds out there.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
Brine/Deep Fry
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
Yes!
But don’t burn down your house in the process.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
I was planning on deep frying
but it looks like rain all day tomorrow. Not happy.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I've grilled ours the last couple of years.
It works well, but you end up with a jigsaw puzzle bird so you miss out on the Norman Rockwell moment.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 24, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
My dad sometimes uses his outdoor grill
He turns the heat on one side and puts the bird on the other. Works sorta like a grill, sorta like an oven. He really likes how it turns out.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
first you wrap your turkey in bacon
then you get a chicken & wrap it in bacon, then you get a duck & wrap it in bacon, then you stuff the duck in the chicken, and then the stuff the chicken & duck in the turkey, cook on low heat for 8-12 hours & then have the greatest thanksgiving day of your life
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
happy skanksgiving!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 24, 2010 1:25 AM EST reply actions
then you should go out to some bar and try to catch a hot minute
now that your employed the women won’t be able to resist
by YesWeOquendo on Nov 24, 2010 3:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'm not really in the condition to drive
and all the bars close up here at 1
and the only hot minute i want to catch is totally having way to much fun toying with me
seriously, she’s pure evil. like charlie brown & the football evil time a billion
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
wow, never heard that before, i think you're right too
dammit
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i'm bored
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2010/11/23/1832719/aubrey-huff-re-signs-for-two-years#52718808
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
anyone care to discuss what it would take for the Cardinals
To trade for one of these guys: Mark Ellis, JJ Hardy, Stephen Drew….
It is seemly more likely we go after a SS than a 2nd baseman, but Ellis seems like the kind of guy Tony would like. I know most of us like Drew but don’t think we would have what it takes to pull off a trade without giving up Shelby or Colby…
Does anyone think Arizona may consider a package like this, and would anyone be on board?:
Motte + Lynn + Salas or Sanchez + Jay
I know that would be a lot to give up but we have plenty of bullpen depth (something they lack), and they would be getting a possible closer (Motte) and another decent right handed bullpen arm. Lynn gives them a legit back end of the rotation prospect and Jay gives them some flexibility if they end up dumping Upton or Young. I actually think it may be a little much to give up, I maybe would hope we could do it without having to include Lynn and maybe throw in Tyler Greene or Anderson instead. If we get a MIF in any trade and Skip becomes an extra OFer/Utility player, doesn’t it kind of make Jay less valuable? Obviously, I think we all like Jay better than Skip, but Skip is a Tony favorite and I don’t see him being very attractive to other teams.
by mick311 on Nov 24, 2010 11:24 AM EST via mobile reply actions
What are their posting fees like?
Somewhat neat co-inky-dinky fact: I read this, then turned around to get ready to leave and I saw that the Indian grad students have started a cricket match in the empty parking lot next to my building. Maybe I should go do some scouting and report my findings to Mo.
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 24, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't think you were a fan of hers.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 24, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
scroll up.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 24, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
just cruising past
first, it’s great to see a comment like this…obviously, the MVP is rarely if ever totally objective, and actually, it really can’t be…as a reds’ fan, i am of course happy as can be with votto getting it this year…yet even i can see how anyone would have to look at pujols and say he also had to be way more than just ‘considered’…i’ve always liked albert, and definitely believe he is one of the two or three best players in the game…the fact that he is so consistent from year to year also goes along way toward making me think he is actually THE best player in the game…
and i’m not going into some spiel about how votto deserved it more…you might be surprised, too, that so many of our fans over here also think right along these same lines about pujols…yes, we would have been pretty disappointed if votto hadn’t won the MVP, but as you say about joey, we wouldn’t have had much to complain about if he’d come in behind albert…
as to whatever else the cardinals do, i’ll wish them well…well enough, anyway, to still have to fight off the reds if they’re going to reclaim the division next year…lol…lots of people aren’t really seeing what has happened over here with our club, and i sure wouldn’t go claiming that all is done that can be done with the reds…but we’ve got some ‘real-deal’ youngsters, and lots of them, so unless something very horrendous happens, the cardinals will have a lot to contend with from us…
thanks again for the posting…i hang around a bit, and enjoy it when there’s something thoughtful to read…
Yay for thoughtful, intelligent posters from enemy clubs!
Now, as long as we reciprocate, maybe there is hope for the world.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 27, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
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