St. Louis Cardinals attempt to upgrade middle infield while not spinning
by DanUpBaby on Nov 15, 2010 6:01 AM EST
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Clearly John Mozeliak, the St. Louis Cardinals, and Joe Srauss know the right .573 OPS hitter to question publicly to rouse Viva El Birdos into a barely manageable offseason fury. Let's pretend Brendan Ryan is a really boring guy, and that Skip Schumaker is still a really boring guy. What is it about this article that might make us so mad?
Okay—this thought-experiment is hard to do. Part of Brendan Ryan's appeal is that he makes baseball more fun to watch. He's a showman in the field and a funny guy off it; he gives excellent quotes and appears in webisodes, happy, it seems, to be famous, to have an audience. That doesn't make him a better baseball player, but it makes him a baseball player I like to watch. I have reached terminal apathy about the playoffs, so this might not be true of everybody, but I'd give up a win or so relative to a replacement player to watch him play, sure.
But back to the thought-experiment. Brendan Ryan-Prime collects stamps as a hobby, and he definitely wouldn't do a webisode about it. Stamp-collecting is personal. He's a good shortstop because he knows exactly where to stand before the ball has been hit, and he always uses two hands, which Al loves. His parents' nickname for him is Brendan.
Brendan Ryan-Prime and Skip Schumaker-Prime, who is the same as regular Schumaker only without the facial hair, are coming off bad years. Schumaker lost the offensive value that made him an interesting second baseman and didn't gain the kind of defensive confidence that might make him a real second baseman. He was a bad offensive second baseman and a bad defensive second baseman and, because versatility is important, a bad offensive outfielder and a bad defensive outfielder.
Next year Schumaker will probably get some of that offensive value back. He'll still be a bad defensive second baseman, but he'd been an average hitter—above-average for the position—for 1327 at-bats before last season. His line-drive percentage was high and his BAbip was low, et cetera.
Now, even though Brendan Ryan-Prime puts me to sleep to watch, and wears his uniform in a way that leaves no impression on me at all, Schumaker-Prime seems like a worse value proposition. Ryan-Prime was a historically bad hitter last season, but the Cardinals won't be hoping for him to get back the one thing that makes him valuable—only the one thing that makes him a starter.
But I can't help but wonder what the point of choosing between these two less-than-sterling options is. If the Cardinals plan on "upgrading" in the infield—and the choices, Juan Uribe most recently, aren't clear and obvious two-win guys, the Cardinals gain little by declaring one survivor the winner and shipping the other off.
The right way to upgrade from these positions, if the Cardinals aren't willing to play in the Dan Uggla et al waters, is to treat them like one position. The Cardinals need to get better performance out of shortstopsecondbase. They have an outstanding defensive shortstop who might not be able to hit and a second baseman who might still be an average hitter. Unless they pick up a guy who can be a shortstop or second baseman without those caveats, they're best off rotating through their options until they determine whose strengths are most in evidence in 2011.
Right now, Brendan Ryan's strength is in evidence, and Skip Schumaker's is not. That's why I'd prefer Ryan even if he were boring. Schumaker really does offer a "comfort level of being probable", but the level at which he's likely to play still makes me uncomfortable.
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I'd agree.
Ryan is the one of the two with a plus skill. Neither is in line for a silver bat, and Skip is light years away from a gold glove. I don’t get it. Other than Skip is signed and a TLR favorite, what does he offer? Many on this board have made the case that poor defense cost the Cards the division. How does downgrading your defense at ss help that? 2B is whdere the change should be made.
by vinniefromjersey on Nov 15, 2010 6:36 AM EST reply actions
This issue it seems to me
is not just where the change should be made, but where it can be made. Moz & Cie seem to be saying that in the market they’re facing it’s easier to move a $1M D-(bat)/A+(field) SS and upgrade to a B/B than to move a $3M C/B and upgrade to a B/B.
ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss
this, I buy.
but they could have said it differently. as much as Skip has spent the last two seasons having anxiety attacks over being trade-bait, Brendan should never find out that he’s trade-bait until the day of the next game.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You really think he didn't already know?
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 15, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
he's not stupid.
however, there is a gaping difference in one’s morale between knowing your job is on the line and spending a quiet season working out of it, and knowing your job is on the line and having your bosses tell the whole world in excruciating detail that you are expendable.
kindly do not imply that I’m that short-sighted.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think this is the crux of the argument
It serves many purposes – It’s easier to move near-defensive wizard SS in his first arb year than a one-dimensional offensive, sub-par defensive 4th OF converted to 2B, and oh by the way, he’s owed $2.7mil (what was said above). Also, it appears they’re trying really hard to NOT throw Skip under the bus in case someone IS interested, and salvage what little trade appeal he has (he’s got the confidence of all the coaching staff!). Does this mean you have to throw the other guy under the bus to do so? Well, no, and that’s just poor reasoning/interviewing skills (and it’s what we’ve seen from TLR before).
Bottom line: You’ve got to spend money to make money. I don’t think that they really WANT to get rid of Brendan, but out of the two, he’s got the better potential for return.
Amaury Cazana for RF in 2011 - the legend will never die!
You really think Schumaker is a B at 2b?
Since when?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Moore Like a C-, IMO...
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
That is supposed to be a C Minus.
:=8/
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Yeah, I confused myself with that clever notation.
It was supposed to be C/C-. It was C/C- if you factor in typing while waiting for the coffee to brew.
ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss
there is no stat for brewing coffee!!!
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
What About Tea??
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Yes, but there is a stat for not having drunk coffee.
I wrote metonymically.
ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss
And yet...
…when a rook comes up for a few weeks in Sept. they always call it a ‘cup of coffee’…
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
why is the push in the middle infield?
why is it not at third base?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
assuming freese will be back healthy
:shrug: it’s what they did last year.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
progressing nicely ahead of schedule
we don’t need any depth at 3B
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
I weep for the future.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
does that mean Jeff Suppan will play 3B some time midseason?
cause if it happens I will come after you with a pitchfork
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
also, Joe Mather dislikes Ryan'. he confides to Jon Jay that he has those "beady eyes"
fortunately Jon Jay is cool as the other side of the pillow, and the cloud of unease hangs without any significant clubhouse repercussions, save Felipe Lopez’s sudden outburst, “You’re not even real, man! You’re not alive! Dios Mio, WHAT ARE WE ALL, ANYWAY!”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This was some subpar writing, Danup
Unusual, as I generally love your blogsmanship. Not that I didn’t agree with the final point but you don’t really make much of an argument here in favor of Boog. Oh well, everyone has their off days I suppose.
Save Brendan Ryan!
Seriously, people who live in St. Louie Louie need to put this Rally to Restore Ryan together. Here’s a link to some info about the necessary permit:
http://stlcin.missouri.org/faqs/displaytopicdetail.cfm?TopicId=560
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Here is a link to the permit application form
http://stlouis.missouri.org//government/forms/510-230.pdf
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Here's a link to the Pappy's Smokehouse catering page
http://pappyssmokehouse.com/Catering.php
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Here's a link to the contact page at NewsChannel 5
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=5441175
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
And finally, if you people can get your acts together, I will personally donate $100, poor-ass college student that I am, to help pay for expenses
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
I would recommend collaborating with Goold/Miklasz/Leach from the get-go
figure out what charity you’re fundraising for and inform them of your intentions.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Mmmm
Ribs from Pappys
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 15, 2010 9:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm out
my travel plans are too screwed up. they’re Schroedinger’s travel plans.
there were a couple of guys who said they were going to spear-head it, they might be working on it via e-mail.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That was me who said I'd spearhead it last Friday.
Unfortunately, my life got hella-complicated over the weekend. In short, I’m likely going to have to move sometime between now and Dec. 1, so time is going to be directed at locating and procuring an alternate residence, and preparing and unloading my own.
As mysterui can attest, sometimes city/municipal ordinances suck.
I'd do it...
but my travel schedule for work is also jacked up. I don’t have anything on the calendar right now, but I do have 3-4 active projects that will need the work to be done before Dec 15. One in Texas, one in NW Iowa, one in eastern Ohio and on in NE Minnesota.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
I think it's more like an admission that our love of Boog is not entirely of the on-the-field variety
I think the case for Boog over Schu, if we’re faced with such a choice, is clear. Just not crystal, “clear as a mountain stream, BUSSCCHH”, clear-as-day clear.
Basically, Skip does nothing very well. He does something OK, hitting, and he does something mediocre, defense at second base. The fact that he can play mediocre-to-bad defense at second base instead of left field helps him a little, too. Brendan plays great defense at one of the hardest positions. He had an offensive season that could be compared to the Marianas Trench, and he was still more valuable than Skip because Skip stopped doing anything particularly well.
Even so, he was worth 1 WAR while Skip was a touch below replacement. Skip has to be at his very best to be around average, maybe a tad over. I can’t see Boog’s ceiling being much beyond 3 to 4 wins. That’s if his hitting improves by a whole lot.
I love Boog and all, and I’d definitely choose him over Skip. But it’s not like we’re talking about an MVP caliber player over Aaron Miles or something.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Who is this mythical man, then?
Who is the B/B at both middle infield positions that is going to come cheaply and be able to play in 100-120 games a year?
STEPHEN DREW
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
sorry for yelling
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Ostensibly
Tyler Greene?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
MI and Right Field
First, let us hope that Mo is saying "Let’s hide what we really want to do and not put our “cards” on the table". Surely he is just trying to trick the other GM’s into a better deal at second.
Second: Why is everyone hip on a platoon in right? Craig is better at the bat than Jay, and their fielding is close. Young hitters should not be platooned unless they show they cannot his from one side. Craig hits both righties and lefties. Jay should be the fourth outfielder, unless something dramatic happens in Spring Training. He has the same upside as Colby.
by Remember Kenny B on Nov 15, 2010 9:23 AM EST reply actions
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
Craig does NOT have the upside of Colby. He doesn’t have that potential with either the glove or the bat.
However, I do agree with you about who should be playing right field. Craig should be there, and Jay should still see plenty of AB’s as the 4th OF in a LaRussa system.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I'm pretty sure
that no one thinks that Craig’s D will ever be close to Jay’s.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
How much difference?
Is there enough difference to worry about? I’d take nine good bats with average defence over nine “good gloves no hit” any day.
by Remember Kenny B on Nov 15, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
i would like to order a Tony Larussa Prime
an even keel, patient, supportive, white-haired manager who smiles often and speaks kindly
he and our John Mozeliak Prime GM are best friends in and out of the stadium but don’t interfere with each other’s responsibilities because they’re professional like that
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Wait a month.
The TLR Prime you described will be descending chimneys and giving presents to good little boys and girls.
And your John Mozielak prime just left baseball to start a recording career.
by dronemc on Nov 15, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I watched only a few series of Cardinals games this year
When they were playing Arizona. One game in particular stood out like a sore thumb. I was sitting in the Chase Field press box, and someone on AZ with an above-average amount of speed (so CY, KJ, Upton, Parra, not-LaRoche, etc.) hit a grounder, not particularly hard, mind you, into the first and second base hole.
A normal second baseman would have simply ranged left, scooped it up, and made a soft throw to first that a fourth grader could have caught. Skip inexplicably ranged at almost a straight-shot towards the “Gold Glover” Chase Field attendee down the first base line in foul territory, scooped the ball up a good ten to fifteen feet onto the grass, and made an awkward, off-balance throw to first which didn’t beat the runner.
Summary: You could use a new second baseman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU_9zTD9B98&feature=related
Apparently there's an epilepsy warning on this video. But it's so incredibly cool.
by Dan Strittmatter on Nov 15, 2010 9:47 AM EST reply actions
Being a contrarian. . .
Skip’s lifetime slash stats: 291/349/383
Boog’s lifetime slash stats: 259/314/344
The first line is somewhere between replacement-level and league average, with a useful OBP, in enough plate appearances (1987) to be meaningful, and with a minor league portfolio to make that line seem real.
The second line is below replacement. Period. And there is nothing in Ryan’s minor league stats to make you believe that those slash stats are underrepresenting Ryan’s true talent level with the bat.
If you believe that there are a handful of quadruple-A SSs out there that can field as well as Ryan without hitting markedly worse, then Ryan is a very fungible commodity. I don’t necessarily agree with that statement, but it is still probably the general consensus among major league scouts.
I don’t think that there is much of a case to be made for keeping Ryan over Schu, frankly.
All that being said, I don’t see any obvious alternatives to either of them on the free agent market, at least not any that are a good bet to deliver better performance, much less value. So I would hold onto both and hope that Boog starts to hit like he did in 2009’s small sample size and that Skip’s 2010 was an anomaly rather than the end. Oh, and I’d also see what Daniel Descalso can do at 2B. And comb the minor league FA wires for potential replacements with whom you could catch lightning in a bottle.
If you can trade either of them and get anything of value (doubtful, that, but more likely for Skip than Boog), then I think you have to do it.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 9:54 AM EST reply actions
Stop making sense...
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
I suppose...
Adam Everett is wanting to play…maybe he makes B Ryan fungible?
Jimmy Ballgame for 2011 RFer!!!
by cardzfanbub on Nov 15, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
i'd think so, considering
that ryan is a younger version of everett, and his (everett’s) supposedly other-worldy defense didn’t make him irreplaceable either…
Houston traded Zobrist because they had Everett.
He was considered irreplaceable when he was considered a prime defensive talent.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
No offense. . .
but using Houston as evidence of accurate player evaluation over the last decade or so is not particularly compelling.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Sure. And Houston trading Zobrist is a moment that makes me laugh.
But I’m just pointing out that teams can consider prime defensive talent to be irreplaceable.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
The obvious case to be made for Ryan
is in the fact that, over the last 2 years, Ryan’s defense has been 4 wins better than Skip’s. As poor as Ryan’s offense is, it’s not 2 wins worse than Skip’s next year but we know, based on the last 2 years worth of data, that Skip’s defense will be in the neighborhood of 2 wins worse than Ryan’s.
Ryan has been worth 1.2 wins more than Skip each of the last 2 seasons. He’s also cheaper than Skip. That’s the case to be made for Ryan over Skip.
by chuckb on Nov 15, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 14 recs
Rec
I honesty don’t know how you can make a comparison of Ryan and Skip without mentioning defense.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I honesty don't know why we are comparing Ryan to Skip
When the should be compare to what is how much it would cost to upgrade to what is available at short, to how much it would cost to upgrade to what is available at second. If it’s cheaper to pick up 2 Wins at short than it is to pick up 2 wins at second, we should do that. If it’s cheaper to pick up two 2 Wins at Second than it is to pick up 2 wins at short, we should do that. And if the price is right, pick up wins at both positions.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
by Evilfrog on Nov 15, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
this is the post right here. read carefully
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Sure
But presumably they won’t be able to boost both. Boog is a better package than Skip and could probably handle second, so if they can upgrade at SS then they can slide Boog over. Either way, I think the Skipper Clipper has sailed.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 15, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
the reason we are talking about it is because MO & TLR have said
they need to upgrade the MI & Skippy isn’t the one that needs to be upgraded. it’s stupid & shortsighted of them both & just another example of what’s wrong with the entire organization.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
It's a false choice
Not sure why the management thinks they need to make it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
because Tony F'ing LaRussa
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Except Brendan Ryan has never been below replacement level in his life.
it’s sad that people underestimate the value of elite defense. If AAAA players could play defense like Brendan Ryan then they would not be AAAA players.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
so why dont we just go ahead and
get stephen drew and chone figgins? that way Mo doesn’t have to play favorites.
I was speaking of offensive replacement level. . .
Again, the theory is that there are a bunch of guys in AAA who can field at a major league level, even at an elite major league level, who can’t hit their way out of a brown paper bag.
That theory has been around for decades and is still prevalent in major league front offices. I probably agree with it, although my guess is that there are 3 or 4 of those guys rather than 15-20.
The view that Boog is fungible is not based upon undervaluing the worth of elite defense, it’s based upon the supposed availability of replacements who are capable of playing elite defense.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
As examples (perhaps). . .
why hasn’t Chin-Lung Hu made it to the majors? or Freddy Galvis? or Cliff Pennington? or Brian Bocock?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Pennington put up 3.7 fWAR this season.
so I’m not sure where you’re coming from there.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
I had forgotten that Pennington had made it. . .
Pennington was roundly considered to be one of the top fielding SSs in the minors the past few seasons, but it still took him a few years of riding the Sacramento – Oakland shuttle to make it. Whether he can continue to hold his job despite hitting 250/319/368 will be an interesting question, especially since he plays for the defense-first A’s.
I’d probably rather have him that Boog, FWIW. He has a better walk rate and a slightly better minor league hitting resume. Admittedly, Boog’s minor league stats are hard to interpret with eyeballs, as he got jerked around from level to level pretty frequently, never really spending a whole year at any one level in the high minors. He also grades out with at least above-average defense, with the potential to play it elitely.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
And yes, obviously
Chin-Lung Hu and Brian Bocock have made the majors, but they haven’t stuck, because they can’t hit.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
if there are 3 or 4 of those guys in the minors who can play elite defense at short
they are a top 100 prospect. Guys like Elvis Andrus, Jose Iglesias et al. There are obviously tons of players in the “all glove, no bat” mold. Some make it and some don’t. It just depends on how good that glove can be and how well they can keep their bat from damaging their value.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
well, isn't that my point?
I would disagree with your first sentence: those guys are only top 100 prospects if they can play elite defense AND have a projectible bat,
Andrus had a projectible bat, and has kept his bat at the major league level.
Ryan’s bat was never projectible at the major league level, at least not based on his minor league stats. Ergo, he was never considered a top 100 prospect.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Andrus' minor league line
.275/.343/.361
His bat has always been a question. He was rated so highly because he was just THAT good of a defender.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
by comparison, Brendan Ryan's minor league line
.292/.340/.384
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Apples to oranges
Andrus put up his numbers at ages 16-19 (!!).
Boog had 479 PAs at AAA from age 24-27, where he put up this line: 252/303/341
Huge difference.
Boog was never considered to be a top prospect, quite simply. He was merely promoted through a system that was bereft of middle infield prospects.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
but Elvis Andrus has never hit in any manner that excited anyone. He’s merely not sucked so bad that his defense was entirely mitigated. Brendan Ryan did the same thing at an older age, which makes him less valuable as a player but does not make his production any easier to replace.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Quibble
You don’t see why people would be excited about a guy’s offense who hit 290/350/367 at 19yp at AA?
It wasn’t just defense.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
That's terrible offense BTW, the age doesn't make up for it
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
really?
For a 19yr old shortstop in AA?
I’m not being snarky I’m sincerely asking.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Nov 15, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
A .717 OPS would be below average in the majors
In AA, that’s miserable. Now he’s 19, so that doesn’t really mean much towards how he’ll do when he’s 22, but it’s a terrible offensive performance.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
For a 19yo
facing a bunch of 23-25yo pitchers, that’s a nice line.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
A bit older actually. . .
this is a dated study that I found here with a simple Google search, comparing the Eastern League (AA) with the PCL (AAA):
http://obsessivegiantscompulsive.blogspot.com/2006/07/core-dump-aaa-vs-aa-differences.html
For pitchers, the ages are similar to the hitters. In the EL, 25.2 years; in the PCL, 27.2 years. The distribution shows the bulk of the EL pitchers being from age 23 to 27, while for the PCL, the bulk being from 23 to 31. In the EL, 5% is 21 years and younger; in the PCL, 5% is 22 years and younger. In the EL, pitchers 27 years and above make up 27% of the players; in the PCL, pitchers 27 years and above make up 53% (again, about half are past their peak skill age point) of the players. Again, clearly, the same distribution pattern holds.
Granted, this is just one study, and therefore, I would not write a doctoral dissertation or stake my life on the general, average range of pitchers in AA being 23-25, but for the purposes of taking a few minutes at lunch to converse politely on a blog, it’s going to have to do.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
this is pretty good offense
tbh
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
skip vs shu
where does tg fit in?
seems is likely to give more b offense and defense over a season, which would put him ahead of both
how much worse would we be with descalso at 4 and tg at 6?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
But going back to your original point
I can’t see how Schu would be more difficult to replace than Boog. If you just consider the bat and the position, Schu’s production is difficult to replace, but his defense eats up his value. I think Tyler Greene and Dan Descalso could both outperform Schumaker going forward. The same could not be said of anyone in our system for Brendan Ryan.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
this
the only thing hard-to-replace about Skip are his looks.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why couldn't tyler greene replace ryan?
I mean, I like Ryan just as much as anybody and would rather see them get rid of Schu if one of them has to go, but isn’t Greene: Ryan as Descalso: Schumaker? I’ve always heard Greene to be an average defensive SS and somewhere between replacement level and average on offense, basically the same WAR as Ryan this year (although accumulated differently). Now, I believe that Ryan will perform better next year than this past year, but isn’t reasonable to expect Greene to be a 1-1.5 WAR player if he got the playing time, which is what Ryan was this year?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov
What is the argument against moving Greene to 2b?
Can he play the position? Does that devalue his defensive value?
I think a MIF of Greene/Ryan can look pretty good, and Greene won’t be a complete black hole offensively.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
he's a natural SS
I thought it was common practice to keep someone at the most challenging defensive until they prove they cannot handle it
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov
yeah, like when they called up Brendan Ryan to play half his innings at third base
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but in light of Ryan being a superior
SS and Greene being an upgrade over Schumaker, can we not move Greene to 2b?
I suppose Greene is probably slotted for super-sub duties this year, though. He is capable at SS and a 3b, and with Miles gone, he would make some sense in that role.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Unfortunately
Aaron Miles has yet to be shown the door. And since he’s grit personified, TLR maybe blocks the doorway.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
He's a FA, so he's halfway out the door.
Also, fun fact: Miles was traded for Juan Uribe.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
Unfortunately
Aaron Miles has not yet been shown the door.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh
SBN’d.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree about descalsco
but Greene comparisons
Greene: .221/.328/.327 with a .292 wOBA… He had a .266 BABIP as well which is near Ryan unlucky
Schu: .265/.328/.372 with a .299 wOBA… He had a .294 BABIP
What’s the difference? Besides the fact that Schu is probably 10-20 off his likely BABIP and much much better defense….
AND Greene has a history of having some power – .482 SLUG last year and .456 SLUG this year at Memphis….
Descalsco… im not feeling him near as much… his MLE is what like .650 OPS projection with below average defense…..
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 15, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Schu's career line. . .
is made worse by his atrocious 2009. In any of the 2 years before, he OBP’d between 358 and 364, and between 384 and 393 against righties.
He’s no All-Star, but a lefty-hitting 2B who can OBP to the tune of 390 in the good side of a platoon has value. There are things that you can do on defense to mitigate his effect: have your 1B and SS cheat to cover his lack of range, sub him for a better defensive player when appropriate. You can’t put the ball on a tee for Boog to hit better, or ask the pitchers to pretty please not throw him breaking pitches.
Don’t get me wrong, Skip Shumacker’s role on most playoff teams would be at most as the big side of a 2B platoon on a team with a rangy 1B and SS (which the Cards have), and a flyball pitching staff (eh, not so much).
And there is certainly no guarantee that Shumacker will ever hit again like he did in 08-09. In fact, i am pessimistic on that front, as i think that low power slappy hitters like him do not age well.
All of those caveats aside, there is little in Boog’s history to indicate that he will ever be anything other than an automatic out in the lineup. He is rangy, fer sure, but this season, at least, he was somewhat error prone. He ain’t Ozzie Smith out there.
Neither are a good bet to be even average major league players at their positions going forward, but Skippy has at least had some offensive value in the past that projects forward. Hoping that Boog will become even adequate offensively is just wishcasting.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I hope you meant his atrocious 2010, not 2009.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
This... is why I have a problem with your posts
Schu’s career line. . .
is made worse by his atrocious 2009. In any of the 2 years before, he OBP’d between 358 and 364./blockquote>
The fact that you say this like it’s a good thing shows ignorance towards how to properly statistically evaluate players. Skips 2010 season is the most important season towards projecting his future performance. It’s the most recent data point – you can’t just write off his worst season as an aberration and project his pre-2010 stats going forward.
He’s no All-Star, but a lefty-hitting 2B who can OBP to the tune of 390 in the good side of a platoon has valueHe has OBP’d to the tune of a .390 OBP before 2010. Besides, platoon splits need to be heaviliy regressed towards the league average – they have very weak predictive value. Again, I would suggest you need to read more about this.
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/is_ryan_howard_really_that_bad_versus_lhp/
There are things that you can do on defense to mitigate his effect: have your 1B and SS cheat to cover his lack of range, sub him for a better defensive player when appropriate.Zero evidence for this. Absolutely none. If you have your SS and 1B cheat wouldn’t that open a hole on the other side? I don’t know, neither do you. Stop making stuff up.
All of those caveats aside, there is little in Boog’s history to indicate that he will ever be anything other than an automatic out in the lineup.The difference between Skip’s and Ryan’s career OBP is .041 points – that’s means that Skip is solid hitter and Ryan is black hole? No it means that Skip is a better hitter than Ryan – that’s all it means. There is no exponential black hole factor for worse hitters (or at least not at Ryan’s level – his OBP isn’t that much worse than league average).
He is rangy, fer sure, but this season, at least, he was somewhat error prone. He ain’t Ozzie Smith out there.
First off, errors are meaningly in and of themselves. The defensive stats (which may or may not be accurate, but are 100% better than errors) have Ryan as by far the best defender in baseball the past two years. Regardless if he is or is not Ozzie Smith, his defense is far better than Skip’s and far between than the gap between the two on offense.Neither are a good bet to be even average major league players at their positions going forwardActually, Ryan has been worth 2.25 WAR per 600 plate appearances in his career. That’s exactly league average. Skip has been worth 1.1 WAR per 600 over his career. So you right that one of those players is not a good bet to be league average going forward.
but Skippy has at least had some offensive value in the past that projects forward. Hoping that Boog will become even adequate offensively is just wishcasting.Again, irrelevant. The combination of Skips offense + defense is worse than the combination of Ryan’s offense + defense
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Wow.
Really, this is amusing. My posts are not intended to be a doctoral dissertation. They are mere opinions, offered to instigate discussion. Similar to yours, in fact, VEP. I guess your opinions are “righter” than mine.
You win. Congratulations.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
See that's so underhanded
You clearly were advancing a position, and doing so in a very opinionated matter. Don’t cop out!
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously. . .
this is baseball, not negotiating a peace treaty, or finding the cure to cancer.
Chill out.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
So basically
You “offer opinions to instigate discussion.” VEP initiates said discussion. You freak out and refuse to discuss back, act condescending (“this is amusing”) without offering counterpoints, and play the “U MAD?” troll card by telling him to “chill out.”
You can’t actually expect to be taken seriously if you’re going to refuse to defend your opinions while acting aloof.
THIS IS MY CHANCE
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Nov 15, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
what teeeeh fuck is this?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
he was disappointed yesterday that a relevant situation
never presented itself for him to use his new favorite gif.
(see, their hands make the U shape, and the text completes the “U MAD” meme[?])
Kyle Lohse has a No-Trade Clause.
i'll never be american enough
to get that kind of stuff without explanation..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
if you look it up and it makes no sense
this is where you tell the kids to get off your lawn
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Warren Sapp and Michael Irvin making
The U symbol for Miami?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Excuse me?
I “discussed back” with those who “discussed”. See my discussions with PurpleHaze, which were perfectly polite, even though there was disagreement..
I initially “discussed back” with VEP despite his rudely presenting his own opinion an as fact,, as in:
VEP: There is no such thing as offensive replacement level There is no such thing as defensive replacement level. There is only total value.
Your argument could not be more wrong. I would suggest reading more about sabermetric player evaluation
To which I responded (politely):
Thanks. . . for your opinion. B-Ref includes a column named "O-RAR", which it defines as Offensive runs above replacement level. It merely backs out defensive RAR from total RAR.
It might not be the most up-to-date stat, or the one that you prefer. Offense is far easier and more reliable to quantify than defense. For these and other reasons, it makes all kinds of sense to characterize a player as above or below replacement level on offense.
Specifically, with which part of my argument did you disagree? Ryan’s fungibility?
Then I got several different responses (some upthread, in nested discussions with other posters) that ranged from condescending to personal attacks, that misrepresented the arguments that I was making in several particulars, argued for the sake of arguing with tangential discussions (i.e. the Elvis Andrus AA piece), and then merely countered my opinions with his own opinions in a my [pinky finger] is bigger than your [pinky finger] fashion.
So instead of engaging in some flame war, or getting personal, or going tit for tat with some of the misrepresentations, or continuing some of the my [pinky finger] is bigger than your [pinky finger] opinion arguments to which there is no real answer, I abandonded the field.
I enjoy discussing baseball with those who are polite (or at least not condescending and personal), and with those who debate in an intellectually honest manner and will continue to do so.
Life is too short to debate just for the sake of winning points, IMHO.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure its interesting
but there’s no way i’m reading all of that
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
As much as I loved seeing The Wizard play the position of SS,
saying that Boog doesn’t, in effect, hold a candle to Ozzie defensively is preposterous. Ozzie’s career as a major league shortstop had him with 21.6 dWAR (B-R) in 21,785.2 defensive innings, or 0.99 dWAR/1,000 innings. Boog, including his time at 2B and 3B, has 4.1 dWAR in his career in 2,936 defensive innings (2,377 at SS), or 1.40 dWAR/1,000 innings. Ozzie had two seasons total in his career where he put up a higher dWAR than Boog’s 2009, but only one where he had a better dWAR rate (1989 = 3.1 dWAR in 1,336.1 innings, versus 1.8 dWAR in 830.0 innings, or 2.89 dWAR extrapolated to the same innings as Ozzie’s 1989). Maybe the offensive to defensive ratios for “replacement level” have shifted over the last 20 years, but even adjusted, Boog’s defensive skill is still pretty close to the bar set by Ozzie.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Before anyone claims that
I’m including Ozzie’s decline years and that’s throwing off the rates:
Ozzie’s peak years (ages 27-35) = 15.2 dWAR in 11,578 innings = 1.31 dWAR/1,000 innings
It would still have to be one hell of an adjustment to move Boog into the “not a holding a candle to” category.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
There is no such thing as offensive replacement level
There is no such thing as defensive replacement level. There is only total value.
Your argument could not be more wrong. I would suggest reading more about sabermetric player evaluation.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, disagreeing is one thing.
Being a condescending prick is another, VEP.
We get it – you’re more versed than most in sabermetric analysis. You like stats and quantitative measures; good for you. They’re a better tool than most things for baseball evaluation. But man, your delivery can be confrontational, bordering on arrogant at times.
Take it for what its worth, but I, personally, expect a little higher level of discourse coming out of one of the more preeminent posters on the board here.
by dronemc on Nov 15, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
personally, that didn't come across as condescending
of course maybe i’m just used to how VEP argues…..
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 15, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
recent activity can speak for itself.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Like fourstick, VEP can be a little abrasive
but you just have to take it in stride and make your counter argument. Sometimes, he is wrong wronga wrong (like about Jeremy Hellickson) and you can’t just back down at his first dismissal of your opinion.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is that the other guy is stating his opinion (which is 100% wrong)
As fact and using that to form his entire argument.
But I suppose I could have been politer. Then again there is past history with SouthsideCardsFan being blatantly wrong yet sure of himself on a whole host of issues, so I would say this is more bias towards the poster than my general attitude.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck You.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
If you are making the argument that he's stating his opinion as fact
then I guess you can counter it. But it seems that what you are saying is that his fact is actually just his opinion, and that it is 100% wrong. I get into this argument with my 10 year old son all the time, and I happen to be in the wrong most of the time. He states his opinion as fact, but it is just his opinion, whether he understands that or not. And, as his opinion, his statement, for him, is true…not “100% wrong”.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
You say yourself that it is his opinion
whether he thinks it’s fact, or not. And you say that he’s 100% wrong. But, truthfully, it is very hard for an opinion to be wrong, and you know this. You just would rather argue about it than let it go. And I know you’re not the only one who does this, especially on this site; but these arguments often get rancorous, and really, why? It’s just not that important.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well I mean if you want me to stop arguing against a point (an opinion or whatever)
Which I feel is blatantly wrong, then I don’t know what to tell you.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
what he is saying touches on the case of Cake: Having vs. Eating it to
you can’t one minute argue that a person is stating an opinion as a fact, and then attack them for stating an opinion. If it is a fact then it can’t be argued, if it is an opinion then it is his and while it may IYO be misguided he is entitled to it
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Just as VEP is entitled to attempt to show him why he's wrong
…which he is
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
shouldn't you be being ticketed somewhere?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
LDKGJLSKDGJKLSDGJLKJDLGJLSDGJLSDGJ
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I got a ticket for 62 in a 45MPH zone three weeks ago
and as I was driving the same stretch last week I saw that it was actually a 55MPH zone, but I had already sent the ticket in
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
The problem with speeding tickets like that, though, is that you still can't be like "Oh well I didn't speed"
Because you did. Just not egregiously so.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
still I wonder If I could have gotten off
by saying this ticket is for driving 17 miles an hour over the limit which I never did
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Heh heh heh... gotten off
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
reminds me what I used to tell people
who would hit on me when I drove a cab. They would ask “When do you get off?” and I would respond “Almost every time”
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
17mph over vs. 7
is a difference of $80 up here.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
daaamn
what does 62 in a 35 get you in CA?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
jail
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
good thing i did this crap in illinois then
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
except you're a lot more likely to actually get pulled over in IL than CA
just so many people driving fast out here that they don’t even really bother unless you’re being an idiot, or are really unlucky.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
try getting something built
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Mmmmmmmm.....cake.....
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
I thought cow's were into pies?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
That's after the cake...
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Reminds me of Absence of Malice
the difference between what is factual, and what is the truth. Or at least, what is accurate, vs. what is true.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 16, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
what is it with you and points?
(and sticking them in people)
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
well cutting, sticking, and directing a point that's our Spants
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
That's gonna be hard to say
with a ball gag in your mouth.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
surely one can borrow some pressure-sensitive device from the machine
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 16, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Next question is:
How do you know?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 16, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought this was a blog for ball play—
oh.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 16, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
i'd love for someone to come up with the VORP
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
yeah, that's why he fit in so well around here
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
why can't there be an offensive replacement level?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
i mean
the level of offense you would get out of your average readily available replacement. makes sense to me.
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
because teams don't replace hitters, they replace players
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
so?
there’s a theoretical replacement level player. that theoretical player has specific level of offense to be expected. I think its fair to call it replacement level.
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn't matter what the theoretical players offense is, it matters what his overall value is: the combination of offense and defense and positional value
If Adam Dunn suddenly was a league average hitter, he would be a replacement level player because his defense is so terrible and he plays an easy position. If Brendan Ryan was a league average hitter, he would be an excellent player.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
kind of missing the point, here
We evaluate offense and defense separately all the time. The replacement player is just a measuring stick. Why can’t we break up the components of his overall value to be able to better evaluate a real player?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
We can, that's what WAR does
It compares offense, defense, and positional value to a league average player, then compares the sum of that value to the sum of the value you’d get if you called up some AAAA player.
The replacement level part has to be on a player basis, not split up to individual components. That’s the only way the theoretical backing makes sense.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
but that's silly
comparing offense to league average isn’t different than comparing it to the average offense of a theoretical replacement player. it may be easier because we have a picture in our mind of average offense (.330-ish wOBA), but it still makes just as much sense compare a player’s offense to that of replacement. the dude is just saying that boog (or whoever we’re talking about) is probably about a .300 wOBA hitter.
all i’m saying is i think you’re being a little hard on a guy for using clunky, but still sensible analysis to make a point. sure, there’s no such thing as a replacement level hitter, but there’s also no such thing as a replacement level player. it’s all theoretical. any time you’re measuring only offensive performance or only defensive performance, you’re taking the trees out of the proverbial forest. DH notwithstanding, there is no “hitter” or “defender” in baseball. there’s only players.
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
good points, prophetjosh
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
welllll, thats just like your opinion, man
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
But he was using the idea of "offensive replacement level" to imply that Boog was more fungible than Skip
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
well, then that's silly
and you should argue that boog is not more fungible than skip, i would say
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
they could both be eliminated with an appropriate fungicide
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
in the AL, this situation is plausible
'Hold my stones!'
"Ernie Hayes is up there playing with his organ again." - Mike Shannon
Thanks. . .
for your opinion. B-Ref includes a column named “O-RAR”, which it defines as Offensive runs above replacement level. It merely backs out defensive RAR from total RAR.
It might not be the most up-to-date stat, or the one that you prefer. Offense is far easier and more reliable to quantify than defense. For these and other reasons, it makes all kinds of sense to characterize a player as above or below replacement level on offense.
Specifically, with which part of my argument did you disagree? Ryan’s fungibility?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 15, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Either you are misinterpreting the B-Ref column
Or it is not meant to be there. It’s been agreed upon by nearly every single sabermetrician out there that there is no such thing as replacement level hitters or fielders, but replacement level players.
I disagree with everything you say, first starting with your characterization of offensive and defensive replacement level. Also, Ryan is not more fungible than Skip because Ryan is better than Skip. Skip’s advantage on offense is far less than Ryan’s advantage on defense. As redbirdnation said below, there are plenty of players with meh hitting and bleh defense. There are less players with bleh hitting and WOW defense. Secondly, even if Ryan was more fungible than Skip (he’s not, because he’s better) that wouldn’t matter because he is better.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
VEP, B-R does have oWAR and dWAR stats
and WAR = oWAR + dWAR
I agree players are evaluated as offense and defense together but for theoretical purposes i don’t see a problem in splitting the metric into components
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Ok, first off, what BBREF is doing is assume league average defense in oWAR and league average offense in dWAR
Got it? So they are comparing players to the replacement level player if all we considered was offense. That’s solely for function purposes (Adam Dunn was worth 5 wins on offense, but negative 2 wins on defense!), and it doesn’t matter towards the overall WAR stat.
The reason that you can’t split the metric into components is that replacement level part of the metric signifies the production that you would get from a AAAA hitter, or some guy off of the waiver wire. Somebody who you could get for the league minimum without having to trade anyone.
That player can vary in how he gets his value. He could be a shitty hitter, or a shitty fielder, or he can be sucky at both, but is a catcher so he manages to be replacement level. It doesn’t matter how he gets his value, what matters is his overall value. Therefore the replacement level component of WAR is “how many runs would a league average player produce over a replacement level player in a given amount of plate appearances”. Since offense, defense, position, baserunning – are compared to league average, league average is compared to the sum of offense, defense, position, baserunning of a replacement level player.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
See, this is why I prefer baseball cards....
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Do These Come with Bubblegum?
:=8.
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Actually Its kind of a cool card...
….although I’d like some moore specific info on it, like BABIP, LD%, and UZR, as well as the AVG OBP SLG OPS info. Not a bad concept though…
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
sure you can split the metric into components
but each has to be interpreted in the context of the other for every individual player
i just thought you were saying the stats didn’t exist
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Then how do we formulate a replacement-level DH?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
i get what you're saying
but a replacement level DH isn’t the same thing as your average replacement offensive level. you would expect higher offensive output from them. just like a replacement level 1B isn’t going to be the same hitter as a replacement level C
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Right, but there
is still a replacement level for them. Whatever the bar needs to be set at, you can surely seperate the two aspects of a player’s game out. Hell, they HAVE to be formulated seperately in order to generate their WAR in the first place.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
what happens when a DH is left in the game to field though?
is he then still being regarded as the DH and accumulates defensive stats or does he, for stat purposes assume the position of the position player?
if you look at Vlad e.g. he has defensive stats but he’s also listed as DH-LF-RF. i don’t care for the AL enough to know if he started some games in the OF so someone enlighten me please
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
definitely
maybe i misunderstood what you were driving at
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
This. Is a sensible view of the problem.
The way I look at it (and admittedly, I am not a model of consistency on how I think about this particular conundrum)… I would rather have a hole in our lineup that we can hide at the 8-9 spot, that provides fantastic MIF defense, than have a hole in our MIF defense that provides meh offense that should be at the 8-9 spot.
Now if one of them could learn to bunt…
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by the way, i meant that southside's view was sensible.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
A run saved is a run scored
We just need to upgrade at MIF, whether it comes defensively or offensively
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
DEFENSE RA RA RA
In all seriousness, Ryan’s defensive advantage over Skip is on the order of 25 runs a season. The difference between with the two with the bat is on the order of 10 runs a season. Hence, Ryan >> Skip.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
since there really is no market for either
can’t we just
0. FO stfu about it
1. extend albert
2. sign westy
3. drop the dead weight from the roster
4. scope the farm for who we can put on 2B or 3B (greene, descalso deserve a chance) even if it’s just for depth
5. then see if there’s something on the market we can buy with the rest of our money
6. start the season and move pieces at the trade deadline if necessary
that way if we still have half a season to bounce back if necessary
we have albert’s signature and we don’t need to worry about that
even we if have a bad year, in 2012 we have carp (theoretically) off the books, and so are skip and franklin and we’ll finally be in our last year of lohse.
we can then win it all and the world can end for all i care
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Except
that once we do 1., then 2. becomes harder, and if we can still do 2., then there’s no money left for 5.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
2. open dewallet and sign westy
5. buy peanuts and beer with the rest of the money (retail, can’t afford prices in the stadium)
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
you forgot 7 and 8
7) train monkey to joust
8) Profit!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Oh, and replace the Birds on the Bats with Cows on the Bats!
:=8D
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
The St Louis Cowdinals?
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Gateway Park
When they were still discussing the naming rights for the new ballpark, I thought an interesting (non-Busch) option would be for Gateway Computers to pick up the tab. This would make the stadium Gateway Park (or whatever) with a solid view of the Gateway Arch. But just so long as they didn’t paint the seats white with black splotches.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
are they still in business?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The raceway?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
of course if you just look at offense that's what's going to stick out
that yes, Skip is a little better at hitting… but why ignore Boog’s plus defense? I don’t get it
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
They have to wear gloves too
One’s a meh hitter and the other’s a bleh hitter. One’s a WOW fielder and the other’s a bleh fielder. The bleh+WOW is better overall than the meh+bleh. This organization seems to like the meh+bleh for some reason.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 15, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
they need to focus on defense more as an org imo
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Those three ought to cover it
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 15, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
not on a TLR team
you gotta have a veteran presence factor, and of course, a grit factor
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
meh, it shouldn't matter where we get our value from
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
but if it is something easily fixable...
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Our only clear negative defender is Skip. Ryan, Colby, Pujols, Holliday, Molina and Jay are all + defenders and Freese is probably around average. Our hitting on the other hand is much worse.
Regardless, second base is the easiest position for us to replace because Skip is the worst starter on our team.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
thats all I'm sayin, really
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think they just need to get the best players they can afford
…and then worry about what their relative strengths and weaknesses later when it’s clear they’re major league quality (or not I suppose). Every ML-quality player can be useful for something (except Aaron Miles, though he’s not really ML-quality TONY LA RUSSA!!!!), it’s just a matter of figuring out what that is.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 15, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'M BACK ON FIREFOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear ProphetJohn,
You are my hero. This is the best Monday ever.
Sincerely,
Robot
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
in bed
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
hey, nice
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
When did Goold start refering to Braun
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That is just disturbing....
:=8.
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
you don't remember
the greatest catch ever. where he did a snow angel in the outfield?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I do not.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
a search
link
memesplanation
related: mojo’s epic ASG comment*
*oddly, SBN does not believe that mojo exists. ohhhnoooooooo
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
oh good, it was just my search-fail.
I thought we lost our mojo. …….wait.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
existential battle!
fight!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
SBN has lost its mojo?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
HOF column by ESPN's Schoenfeld:
Relevant material:
Ted Simmons
Career stats: .285/.348/.437, 248 HRs, 1389 RBIs, 2472 hits, 1074 runs, 8-time All-Star.
Career in a sentence: One of the best-hitting catchers of all time; during his 10-year peak from 1971 to 1980 he averaged .301 with an 834 OPS and 90 RBIs per season.
Reason he’s not in the Hall of Fame: He wasn’t as good as Bench.
Real reason he’s not in the Hall of Fame: He wasn’t as good as Bench.
Simmons came up a couple years after Bench and suffered from the inevitable comparisons. The Cardinals in the ‘70s were a bit of a mess, never making the playoffs, making bad talent judgments (Steve Carlton, Jose Cruz, Reggie Smith) and were essentially viewed as a club that failed to reach its potential. Simmons was smart, outspoken and wore sideburns and long hair. Being the team’s best player, much of the blame was naturally placed on him. Meanwhile, Bench’s Reds always won, and he had nice, short-cropped hair. The media never latched on to how good Simmons was, and then when he didn’t play as well after getting traded to Milwaukee everyone kind of forgot about him.
Most ridiculous thing about his career: Received just 3.7 percent of the vote in his first year and was booted from the ballot because of the 5 percent rule. Really? A catcher who hit like he did got only 17 votes?
Nerdy analysis: Simmons ranks ninth among catchers on baseball reference’s WAR list. The eight players ahead of him: Bench, Ivan Rodriguez, Carlton Fisk, Gary Carter, Yogi Berra, Mike Piazza, Bill Dickey and Mickey Cochrane, all Hall of Famers or future Hall of Famers. Six Hall of Fame catchers rate below Simmons.
Best eligible player at his position not in the Hall: Simmons.
Should he make it: Yes.
Will he make it? He’s remained in the game in various capacities through the years (GM, bench coach, advisor), which should help him with the executives on the committee. I have to think Bench will be an important voice, the guy who could persuade voters either way. Herzog is also on the committee, and he’s the guy who traded Simmons away from St. Louis. I say he makes it.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
I'm a 70's kid....
…I grew up with Teddy Boy as catcher, he was a rock for our team for a long time. I think he gets in too.
:=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Yeah, it's time. Past time, really.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 15, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
The guy would have been first ballot in a Boston or NYY hat
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Please don't do this
The cardinals have a LOT of HOFers, we get noticed, just not Simmons
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 15, 2010 6:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right on
Simmons is quite the enigma. It’s clear he belongs in the Hall of Fame. The more advanced stats tell us this is so as much as the more traditional ones do. He has a career WAR over 60. His peak was very long and had multiple years around 6 WAR, which is basically MVP-level (I think, correct me if I’m wrong about this. There is even a fun stat out there called WAM, Wins Above MVP which a couple cool BtB posts used recently to measure the super-elite players in history).
Anyway, what’s crazy is that, with his counting stats, considering he’s a catcher, I would think he’s easily in the Hall. Maybe he really did stick around just long enough that people forgot how awesome he was?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Also, something I just now noticed about Simmons
His BB% kinda cratered upon leaving St. Louis, and recovered gradually but did not get back up to the levels of his peak. What might cause that?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
someone trying to teach him how to hit
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I guess so?
I don’t understand it. Anybody know if there is anecdotal evidence of Milwaukee coaches trying to change his approach or something?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
unfortunately
Ted was a poor defensive catcher and a lot of his offensive stats come while playing other positions. So he is not as great of a player as he looks on paper. I love the guy, but he is not a HOF’er.
I think the current thinking is
that he was an average to very slightly below average catcher. Johnny Bench shouldn’t be the measure of his defensive prowess. Therefore, his case rests on his offense which is top 10 for cachers all time. He should go in.
Just win
I don't understand why the change in positions should lessen his HOF case
if his value as a player was still good enough. The metrics seem to indicate that maybe he did have a Hall of Fame career, and wouldn’t they take that into account?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
so the Phillies hired Ryne Sandberg
I am so, so, so tempted to see if anyone’s in BCB.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah, what happened there
the cubs must have pissed him off. it’s not like this is any kind of promotion. and i imagine charlie manuel is less likely to lose his job than dick mcjuggler or whoever the cubs current manager is
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
'cause they blocked him from the big job in the ivy hole
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
well, now he's more blocked
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
i'll look up where the phillies minors are
maybe he hates iowa
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Lehigh Valley IronPigs
they have a golf tournament
2008 ballpark of the year, organization of the year, tourism awards… highest per game attendance
not a bad gig.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
my guess is that the Cubs decided to pay minimum wage on the manager spot
Sandberg woulda cost more than Quade, amirite?
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
trading boog doesn't make much sense
since he had an off year last year. either that or he had a career year in 08. i’d much rather see the cards go after 2B or 3B instead of SS.
Is it at all possible
that we might try to move Ryan ‘cause we know Skip is un-moveable and we’re going to give the job to Greene? Maybe we can get something, anything, a decent relief pitcher, for Ryan?
HAHAHAHAHA. I know, I know. But I’m grasping at straws here.
i don't understand why not being useful at anything else should get you a starting job.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Boog over Skip
At their best, Boog is a better overall package. Skip is atrocious at second, isn’t getting better, and isn’t a good enough hitter to make up for it. Boog can be a better hitter and requires only an OBP/wOBA within spitting distance of average to be a useful player. This team needs to balance hitting with defense and upgrading Skippy, who does neither particularly well, seems the best play. Sorry Skippy… It’s nothing personal. Just business.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 15, 2010 12:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wish they would just concentrate on second base and get it over with
they might as well sign someone that can play 2nd and shortstop though, since Tony thinks Skip is really good. Sign Uribe, or if Renteria, they can play both
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 12:19 PM EST reply actions
or should they sign a third baseman
hmmm
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
nice
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
more MIF by committee is probably the best idea
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
The obvious reason for trading Schumaker over Boog
I Heart IHB, and if Boog goes, does IHB?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 15, 2010 12:21 PM EST reply actions
que?
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Nov 15, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder sometimes, what I would do if I moved away from Chicago
but at least I have control over that
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
i will stay but will have a sad.
i don’t know the protocol…is a screen name change recommended?
we also have Skip’sOCD to think about.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
lol
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
we'll always have boog
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
only mods can change their names
if you want to or have to change your name, have to make a new account
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I would absolutely hate it if Boog gets the boot
He plays fantastic defense, and this organization has always valued defense at SS (see: Izturis, Cesar). Pitchers request to have Boog behind them, he has clubhouse presence and phenomenal range. OTOH, Skip has shown no improvement at 2B, and even though he projects to have a better 2011 at the plate, there is little to suggest that he will be more valuable than Boog… Heck, find a 2B, not a SS…
Oh, and I cringe over the idea of Orlando Cabrera replacing Boog. The guy has an amazing .657 OPS!
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
just think, if we hired iztoo to play second
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
what part?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Hee hee
“Dickey”
Stupid offseason.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 15, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
federally appropriated funds may not be used...
1) to create new embryonic cells, solely and expressly for the purposes of doing research upon them
2) to fund research on (both previously existing and those which were created without the use of federal funds) embryonic cells (cell lines) that may expose those cells to a risk of death which is greater than what is allowed in situ (in the womb/uterine) research.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
Buster gets ROY
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
surprising
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
yeah that is surprising
but probably correct
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I think I can tell who the pirates writer voted 2 and 3
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
It's already on his plaque
No one will ever notice.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
I thought he was already in
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
the voters were probably swayed by HR and BA totals
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Frankly, I think they're racist
and I look forward to all sportswriters claims as such.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Keep an eye on the Huffington post sports page
I am sure they will do a serial, interviewing Torii, Dye and Sheffield
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Stephen A Smith is gonna flip the hell out.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I can't rec from my phone
But if I could and I could do it Halo style you would be getting a recamanjaro
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 15, 2010 7:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And defense
Posey’s defense and “game-calling” (that nebulous thing that means nothing) were both praised.
that can only mean one thing
he was made an honorary Molina in a secret ceremony
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
After which, Benjie was sent packing.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Honorary Molina
Does that mean he’ll defect to the Cardinals to be with Yadier like the Stastny brothers did way back when?
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Wow Chacin doesn't get even one vote for 137 innings of 142 ERA+ pitching with 9 K/9
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
mostly for Renck who covers the Rockies
I would have at least thrown him a 3rd place
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
egads
have we not heard this scribe’s name before?
but surely it means nothing, as these are esteemed gentlepersons of wisdom.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
these are the same guys who left Robbie Alomar, Lou Whitaker, and Ted Simmons
out in the cold, but were able to rally the energy to put Jim Rice in the Hall with Andre Dawson?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I am not sure if it is Ringlesby or Renck who gets the vote
either way they should rally at least a little homerism
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Tracy's votes have been suspect for quite some time now.
I think it has to do with the hat.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
hides the brain slug?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I believe you mean a Yeerk
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Gaby Sanchez is fourth
but it’s okay
he’ll win ROY from the WWE
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Not that it mattered in the final count, but the Pittsburgh reporter who had the two Pirates players
at second and third place apparently left Heyward off his ballot altogether. Kind of like the ass who left Carp (or was it Wainwright?) completely off his Cy ballot last year.
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 15, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Calcaterra spills it on the voters
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/15/the-posey-and-heyward-omitters-speak/
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
also kind of surprised the Natinels writer didn't give Strasburg a 3rd place
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
i had Heyward and Jason as ROYs
Jackson was better but Jaso was SO good and he was a catcher… the only disparity was PAs…
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 16, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Isn't part of the question whether it's actually feasible to upgrade at each position, not just which one we would rather upgrade?
Perhaps Mo feels like the possible upgrades at shortstop through trade are much more appealing than what is available at 2B.
Granted considering the free agent market with guys like Orlando Hudson available that seems a bit odd, but we don’t have that much of an idea who is really on the trade block and what teams are asking in return for players.
Granted the way Mo worded the statement, placing “emphasis” on SS, doesn’t make it sound this way either, but I’m just playing a bit of the devil’s advocate. While most of us agree Boog is the more valuable player, it’s possible that the best way to upgrade the team heading in to next season is a replacement at shortstop over second base.
this is true
wouldn’t be the first time
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
if Mo and Strauss are sitting somewhere on a boat
smoking cigars, reading VEB and laughing their asses off
i will be quite pissed
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Mo quit, didn't he?
I think he eats OCD pizza now.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i hope someone's told brendan
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
joey bombs was sent with the message
…oh wait
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
it was on his ipod
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"This is odd. I think that last song was actually Mather singing to Boog."
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
by TBender on Nov 15, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
twas you, right?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
i distinctly remember another picture from the same series
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
the way i see it
there are two possibilities at 2B: uggla and johnson. uggla is going to cost too much money, johnson will probably cost a lot in talent.
uribe is old and probably wants multiple years. i’m also not convinced of his offense. he was an average at best guy until he came out of nowhere in his age 30 season and started putting up good offensive and defensive numbers. hudson is also old and didn’t put up numbers better than what we should expect out of skip. he also look to be declining and will probably get twice what skip is making
a lot of people disagree, but i think stephen drew will come a reasonable cost in talent (less than uggla or johnson). and if the mets decide they’re going into rebuild mode, we might be able to pry apart jose reyes considering that we would be buying low on him. we’d also get prospects in return when he walks as a free agent. he’s about as expensive as uggla, though
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
have we given up on signing renteria to play 2B?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Why do you think Stephen Drew will be cheaper than Uggla?
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
because uggla made $8MM last year
and drew made $3.4MM
also because uggla is seen as the elusive “slugger” who can “hit 30 HRs”. whereas drew is seen more as an average-ish offensive guy with a decent glove
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
wait
that’s why drew will be MORE… he costs less money… the higher the price tag, the less talent you need to get
also im not sure who thinks drew has an average bat (.354 wOBA really?)
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 16, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
yeah and he's never put up anything close to that any other year
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 16, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
The Indians re-signed Tony Reyes
hopefully his flatbill can stay healthy, and he’ll finally pan out for them.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
you mean Anthony?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah him too
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
His friends call him Tony.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Sheckie is his friend?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
his non-friends sometimes call him Tony too.
but only when trying to act cool
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Sheckie is cool?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"...trying to ACT cool"
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
so you're not cool
gotcha
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh geez No! Exact opposite
This guy, though, IS cool.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Hey!
where’d you get that picture of me from high school?!?
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 15, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
In all honesty, I am pretty impressed.
He has the PowerGlove, a ControllerStaff and a holster for his Zapper.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
he could have implemented the virtua boy if he were from the future
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
With a SuperScope as his primary ranged weapon.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
lol!
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
He'd become a truly unstoppable warrior.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
don't even ask what happens if he connects a game genie into a game shark
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he'd be like Link+Samus+Mario+Bayou Billy+Bill/Lance+Mega Man
aka Albert Pujols
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
And then just to make things crazy
He’d bring Aeris back to life. I know, it’s Playstation not Nintendo, but I think a being of his power could cross the platform plane.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Add in the Konami Code
and you got one BAMF.
I misspoke before… THEN you would be approaching Albert Pujols.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Albert Pujols can beat Contra without the Konami code.
In fact, Albert Pujols can beat Contra with zero lives left.
With one hand.
With his other hand he can beat Bubble Bobble with no passwords or warp umbrellas.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 15, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
in Mario 3 Albert Pujols always has the P-Wing
by DanUpBaby on Nov 15, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Instead of letters from the Princess
In each world Albert gets a letter of surrender from Bowser begging him to accept.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 15, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My Virtual Boy is still broken
Until I resolder the piece that’s apparently come loose it will be most effective as a piece of a similar Captain N costume.
he shoulda used an Advantage as the chest plate though
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Now THIS is a hero for my generation.
A Power Pad could’ve been his cape.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
winnar
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
i wonder if he's already here?
better question is where’s he going to hang out? there’s literally nothing to do around here unless you’re a college kid
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Um... From Buster Olney
Other clubs perceive the Marlins are absolutely intent on moving Uggla ASAP, and they are not asking for a high return.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
It's from Buster,
so they’re probably asking for Pujols in return.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Are these whisperings amongst front office personnel?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
are they in anyone's ear?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Well hopefully we can hop in and see what happens.
although,this morning they weren’t shopping him aggressively.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
further from Buster....
“a couple of decent guys, no A-plus prospects necessary. They know Uggla’s salary and impending free agency precludes them from getting the top-of-the-line prospects. "
A+ prospects are the only top-of-the-line prospects?
I think there are maybe 2 or 3 A+ prospects in all of MiLB
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
concernig Ugla
mlbtraderumors now says Marlins are looking for a catcher and a pitcher back…
do we have any of those?
You fit into me
like a hook into an eye
a fish hook
an open eye
by Red Blazer on Nov 15, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If the Blue Jays are the favorites, and are offering Arrencibia, there's no way we can compete
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I don't know...
if the Jays are offering Arrencibia I would turn that down.
I knew this guy once who had that shit and he was all kinds of fucked up for days.
You fit into me
like a hook into an eye
a fish hook
an open eye
by Red Blazer on Nov 15, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
why???? why is this not green????
and i stopped touching myself at nights months ago so i know that’s not why
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i read that as buster posey
and i’m thinking, what this guy wins ROY and now he thinks he knows everything?!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Nov 15, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
not gonna lie
you gave me a nice laugh
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 16, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
throw Lynn + bullpen arm at them, get Uggla
sign Westy, win WS. Yes, I realize that will require a payroll hike, and yes, I realize we’re not really in a great position to be trading away young, cost-controlled, serviceable arms. But who gives a shit? Didn’t you see, we won the WS in my scenario. Why am I not GM yet?
by mattyp on Nov 15, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
matty's got a point, his plan definitely includes winning the world series.
Can’t really argue that it doesn’t.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 15, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
twould preclude signing westbrook
probably means kmac in the rotation which i’m okay with
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
if we can not give up lynn and do it that would be x10 better
i want lynn for next year when carp leaves
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 16, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Lynn + bullpen arm + Tyler Greene
would be my limit. But I would do it.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
skip and stav maybe?
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
yes, and as a bonus
this man will eat his own beard for their amusement. How could they possibly turn down this deal?
little do they know, both these players can only do well as a Marlin
how to convince…
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
a pitcher and a catcher, eh?
if we can afford his salary, how bit lynn and anderson?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
from purple row
1. Out of all 2B, all time, there have been 63 individual seasons where a 2B hit over 25 HR and over 100 OPS+. Jeff Kent did it 6 times, and Rogers Hornsby, Ryne Sandberg, Dan Uggla, and Joe Gordon had 5 such seasons apiece. Chase Utley and Alfonso Soriano have 4 apiece.
2. Out of all 2B, all time, there have been 28 individual seasons where a 2B hit over 30 HR and posted an OPS+ greater than 100. Of those 28 seasons, 3 of them belonged to Rogers Hornsby, Jeff Kent, Chase Utley, and Alfonso Soriano (3 apiece, that is). Bret Boone, Joe Gordon, and Ryne Sandberg had 2 apiece. Aaron Hill, Bobby Grich, Brandon Phillips, Ian Kinsler, and Jay Bell all did it once. Dan Uggla has done it 4 times. Not only has Uggla done it 4 times, but Uggla is the only 2B ever to have 4 30+ HR seasons.
3. Dan Uggla has never had a sub-2 WAR season per fangraphs and only 1 season sub-2 WAR per BBR (2007).
4. Dan Uggla averages 3.8 WAR per season.
5. Dan Uggla led the NL in 2B fielding assists in 2009.
Here are some not-so-fun facts about Dan Uggla:
1. Dan Uggla has posted a positive UZR twice: 2006 and 2008. Ever other season has been -7 UZR or worse. If UZR isn’t your cup of tea, Uggla has never posted a positive TZ. His 2006 and 2008 campaigns were the least-negative of how he grades out.
2. Uggla led the NL in 2B errors in 2010.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
So, just noticed this (OT too)
This is the Bill James projection for Allen Craig for 2011:
.283/.335/.461, .350 wOBA, 120 wRC+.
I’d take that. That’s pretty much Ryan Ludwick’s career line. Dunno what kind of defense to expect from him, and I know Bill James’ projections are not the best, [insert more caveats here], etc. Anyway, I found that interesting.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
On days Craig plays rather than Jay, I'm a big fan of having him play LF and Holliday play right
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I could dig this.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Yeah, that would be interesting
Especially since Holliday offered to try out RF. Optimizing both offense and defense is fun.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
you're not a True Cardinal till you play another position
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Maybe that's why TLR keeps trying to play GM.
by dronemc on Nov 15, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
now that's funny
and it should also be green dammit
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
did my part
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
and that's why we love IHB
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
and that's why we love IHB
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
in....
I’ll stop now.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
you're all wrong
we heart IHB
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this guy can't win
he finally got a moment, and now he’s gotta learn a new position
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
no one considered it till he volunteered
maybe he thinks there are more moments in right. he saw that Ludwig guy
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh i forgot all about the seeding
that is crucial
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i don't see mh as a better fielder than ac
ac looked pretty good last. no joe mather, but at least passable
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
holliday is definitely the better defender of the two
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it seemed optimistic to me too.
I thought I remembered that James projections are generally high, but I wasn’t sure if I was confusing his projections with something else. Are they just bullish across the board on offense? The only reason I bring it up is because they’re the only ones available yet, and eh, it’s early hot stove season. Not much going on.
For the record, I would be ecstatic if Craig matched that projection.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
shelby miller named cardinals' minor league player of the year
in other news, the sky is blue
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
oops
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
that's matt carpenter
shelby was the minor league pitcher of the year
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
thats what i meant. geez
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
now go to your room
no TV, either
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
its the only way i'll learn
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
oh so you like the rough stuff?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
in bed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
in bed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
yeah that's why he fit in around here
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
in bed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
professional headline writers
I am tempted to start a write-in campaign to make these felony offenses.
“Should John Tyner Should Worry about More Than His Junk?
Posted by Joshua Norman”
Really? In a science / sociology article? Can someone go stab these people?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ironically, it's condescending.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
headline writers (like yours truly) are completely subordinate to SEO concerns now
Maybe this guy really wanted to nail down the top Google News spot for the word “should.”
i should have known it was tabs in the British sense
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So, here's an awesome web thingie:
A Taxonomy of the Logical Fallacies.
Also, Wezen-Ball made a periodic table of the Hall of Fame, check it out. There’s a link on the front page of Beyond the Boxscore.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
so that's what a strawman fallacy is
Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)
I don't know why my opponent Mattyfrommo keeps saying Hitler was made of straw
but it is typical of his type to say things like that.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
....a matty?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
But listen, and understand: more Mattys are out there
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
by TomCat009 on Nov 16, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
eeek.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I need the help of a Saberface.
Could someone provide me a nice, simple, but precise explanation of “replacement player”?
I’ve heard it described as a “AAAA type player” (see above), the creator of VORP defined a replacement hitter as “roughly 80% as good as an average major league hitter at his position.” (link). BaseballReference defines it as " …an average Triple-A callup who might appear in the majors only as replacement for an injured player, and whose hitting, fielding, and (if applicable) pitching skills are far below league average." (link)
These definitions seem a tad arbitrary and abstract. I’ve always assumed it was a more precise value/measurement. I’m not trying to start some sort of theological/philosophical debate (but I can’t stop it…), I am honestly just curious. I know VEP is a big Saber, can someone give a fool a bit of help?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
It's a player that is freely available; that is, they are worth no more than the league minimum
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Nov 15, 2010 7:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
so it is just kind of an arbitrary concept
that is just fine. I’m just curious.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I'm trying to understand the different measurements a bit better.
having a good understanding of the “replacement player” concept is essential to that.
Would Neifi Perez be considered the ultimate replacement player (Career WAR of .1)?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
here
WAR is wins above replacement. Replacement is [..] the talent level for which you would pay the minimum salary on the open market, or for which you can obtain at minimal cost in a trade.
For nonpitchers, that level is set at -2.25 wins per 162 games, below the average for that league. Since the same stats of an average AL player is better than the same stats of an average NL player (i.e., the AL is the better league), we have different replacement levels. Those levels are -2.5 wins per 162 games in the AL, and -2.0 wins in the NL.
The positional adjustments are:
+1.0 wins C
+0.5 SS/CF
+0.0 2B/3B
-0.5 LF/RF/PH
-1.0 1B
-1.5 DH
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
I want to know where the numbers 2.5 wins and -2.0 wins come from
Do they actually tabulate up the value of all call-ups in a given year? Or is it more theoretical than that? Anybody know?
I’ve read before that replacement level is empirically derived, but I wasn’t sure exactly what the writer meant by that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yes, that means he is the defition of a replacement level player
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno, man
Shouldn’t a replacement player NOT get that much playing time over 11 years? He’s got over 5500 PA to his name
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
he's replacing alot of dudes!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Nov 15, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
...
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/replacement-level-article/
There’s a lot more articles at The Hardball Times about repalcement level as well.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
the average freely available type of player
the kind of production that is available to all teams via call ups, mid season free agents or waiver acquisitions. to be more specific, 2 wins below an average player
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
No.
He is well below replacement level. The guy amassed a negative 1.4 WAR in just 278 career PA.
Cardinals fan from Korea
by FreeRedbird on Nov 16, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
no
he’s not replacement level, he’s Stavisuckian level
by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 16, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
an astronomical .286 OBP with a .339 SLG
epicly bad
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 16, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
he used up all his power for that one
damn, we had two epic homers like that, see also Brad Penny
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 16, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
are there any biology types here?
like, anyone who has a good understanding of DNA synthesis, specifically?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Monk, but unfortunately for you,
he hasn’t posted in weeks.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
no wait, this is the right thread
where did everyone go
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
what i your biology problem?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
it's not a problem
it’s an inconsistency in the text book that i need explained. it’s kind of complicated, but i guess i can explain what the issue is
DNA strands have directionality, right? and during DNA synthesis, new nucleotides can only be added to the 3’ end of a strand. the book, and my lecturer, points out that once you get to the end of the lagging strand, there’s no room for an RNA primer and all that is left is an exposed 5’ end of an RNA primer. i want to know why you don’t have the same problem on the leading strand. while you can continuously synthesize once you get started and there are no okazaki fragments, that first RNA primer on the 5’ end of the leading strand has to be removed which exposes a 5’ end. the book says that the leading strand is an exact copy every time and the lagging strand gets a bit shorter every time. but it doesn’t make sense. unless telomerase extends the leading strand every time (something that is only supposed to happen on the lagging strand and only during meiosis) the leading strand would have to also get a little bit shorter every time
you get me, dawg?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
That gave me a headache just reading it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 15, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
why i need someone who has a good understanding of DNA synthesis. it’s very complicated shit
and really it’s nothing compared to shit i had to learn in cellular respiration like electron transport chains, the Krebs cycle and ATP synthase
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
at the same time, it's pretty amazing what is known
and in how much detail it is known about what goes on at an atomic level
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I fully agree. I love reading that stuff, but I can only grasp a small part of it.
What really blows my mind is how much of this was in the realm of science fiction for so long, and yet now we’re actually realizing it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 15, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
well,
had they not discovered the double helical nature of DNA, i might not be having to learn this stuff i guess
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
i actually got this figured out
the both strands are both leading and lagging at the same time at different ends
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0072437316/120076/micro04.swf
http://www.johnkyrk.com/DNAreplication.html
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that said Kruk at first
imagine an army of Kruks
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
So, I don't know if this thread is dead for the moment
but is anybody watching Monday Night Football? The Eagles are completely dismantling the Redskins. 34-0 in about a quarter of play. I think they’re going for a record or something.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yeah, 'cause normally with some good bow technique it's the other way around
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
haha
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 15, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
The hunter...
has become the hunted!
And of course, soon after I make that post the Redskins show some signs of life. It’s still pretty early in the game.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
normally you'd be seeing below a small black boy telling you that you are a racists
but these are far from normal times
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
That is also....
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Reminds me of when Baltimore dismantled New England last year
Though that was way more surprising
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it begs the question
is Skip Schumaker actually really boring?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
he seems that way
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 15, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
he did want to be in law enforcement
now look at him. he has a fan named Monster.
is Monster related to Machine? hmm.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
do tell about the Monster
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
That goes back to the San Quentin tour, I think.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 15, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
here's us explaining it to az
but it’s out of P-D
SEE, they stole it all from us. Mark DeRosa. rally thong. everything.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
scrolling
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Lance Lynn's nickname down from there
this is a classic thread.
even though. well. yeah, the thread’s the highlight.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Mister Eff, another one to put on the MIA list.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 15, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
eff that guy
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
n/m. I forgot.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 15, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
shhh
heh heh heh
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 15, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
i thought mister eff was fritz
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Nov 15, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
I’d like to blame the booze, but I’m just getting started.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 15, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
he was an asshole.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
that's why he fit in so well around here
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
well, now we know what CJ Beatty's up to
http://twitter.com/cjbeatty44/status/4395181612736512
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
who is the 16-year-old girl?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
i really appreciate CJ
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
flashcards
http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/15/a-quick-guide-to-pertinent-2011-minor-league-relievers/
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
THANK GOD
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
az needs a little table style="padding" but otherwise... it's a real flashcard.
sweeeeeet. now to break out the cardstock…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
From azru's description,
I think he’s high on Chuckie Fick.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
in bed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
What really is driving the Boog, Skippy debate is
if we get rid of Skip, who is going to repeatedly adjust his batting gloves after every pitch?
Are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
They're going to sign Nomar Garciaparra
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Nov 16, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
As bad as skip is with that,
he’ll never top Nomar’s between-pitch routine. Any more needlessly complex routine and he’d be doing Japanese noh theater in the batter’s box.
by dronemc on Nov 16, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
oh please
they’re really watching him lean his bat between his legs.
oh… were we supposed to mention that?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I dug into my personal stash....
but I’ve only got Colby.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i posit it's more impressive with skip 'cause of the proportion of height to bat length
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
anyone know why mcnabb got his new contract?
15 mil/yr for 5 years!
by guillermozeliak on Nov 16, 2010 1:33 AM EST reply actions
The Phillies think they are overpaying for his decline
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
he's a nice, honorable man with some football skills
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 16, 2010 2:54 AM EST up reply actions
what?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
it's posting my reply's under the wrong comments
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
that's why he fit in so well around here
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
ya now their popping up late along with all over the place
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
in bed......
but it’s gdm, so we all know that’s not true.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
heh....
I didn’t notice anything out of the norm…..just the normal rabble.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
that doesn't speak to highly of my posting skills
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
hey look, straussycorn opened his pie hole
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
wow
wtf is Mo trying to do?
“we’re in a hurry- don’t want to drag this out- gotta get done next month- i’m just gonna go ahead and set my leverage on fire so I’m sure to overpay- thanks, I’ll be here through 2013”
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
like i've been saying for a while now, he's been a big disappointment as GM
i love the part where he said the deal would prevent them from upgrades after next year. that’s really comforting.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
it just astounds me that someone that bad at negotiating
somehow made it to the position he’s in. I mean, that’s a big part of the job description, and he’s just awful at it.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
i wonder how good he is at poker?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Yeah, I'm trying not to read too much into it myself
I thought I remembered it being said of Mozeliak, when he was initially made GM, that his specialty was the actual negotiating of contracts and sorting out specifics and stuff like that. Now, a lot of people point to the Lohse contract and say that’s bupkis, but I’ll wait and see.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
also, marty over at the biz of baseball
is really trying to piss us off
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
pujols for hanley?
In a heartbeat. Probably same for Mike Stanton.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
My gut reaction is fuck that shit.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
no way, if you trade Albert you go big or go home
you get at least Johnson, Hanley, Uggla, Stanton, Morrison in return or you go elsewhere
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I would think the Giants, Angels, Yankees, Red Sox, and Mariners would have both
the young talent, and monetary resources to make a trade for APu worth it for both sides.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
yeah, but likely nothing that's such an open-and-shut win for STL
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Hanley is a nice player but not a face of the franchise type
He will likely continue to shed value as he slows and is better suited at 2B or 3B defensively. I think he is an amazing talent, but if you think Tony doesn’t like Rasmus’ attitude imagine his opinion of Hanley.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Uhh
Hanley has a career 143 wRC+, all as a shortstop. He’s been worth 28.5 wins in 5 seasons.
I honestly don’t know who would be more of a “face of the franchise” type.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 16, 2010 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
someone who isn't a dick
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Stanton plus Morrison and Dominguez would plug a lot of holes
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
yeah, for hanley maybe
not stanton.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
correction
pujols for hanley and uggla? in a heartbeat
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 16, 2010 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
only if they take lohse's contract
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
yeah, gotta send two for two on this deal
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 16, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
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