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at long last, the hot stove

that special season is upon us again, when young men everywhere make mlbtraderumors.com their homepages, and unintentional comedy falls from dayton moore's mouth. 

yes, the hot stove has come again, bringing gifts for all the good girls and boys, leaving lumps of junior spivey for those who have been naughty.

the season looks to be a little less hot stove-y for the cardinals. they are hard at work trying to convince jake westbrook to stay for another two years, but not any longer tha that. they have alleged blockbuster deals/signings to come, but i will not hold my breath.

i am not too concerned about the westbrook negotiations. i like him, but we really don't need an okay pitcher on a long contract here. if we can get him for two years, fine. if somebody wants to give him three years, then vaya con dios, jake.

there are other interesting 4th starter options. and given that the dodgers are signing (an admittedly older) (though also better) hiroki kuroda to a 1y/$12m contract, i'm not jumping at the chance to give jake three years. carl pavano may be available, since the twins don't seem able to retain his services. javier vasquez is a good name to follow. even kenshin kawakami was recently outrighted to aa by the braves for the purposes of shopping him to japan. kawakami seems like a competent 4th starter who would have been given a chance to rebound had he not been on the most preposterously deep rotation in the majors. 

much of the remaining action is happening on other teams, though. and by "action," i mean comedy.

the aforementioned dayton moore shows why he is running one of the worst teams in the majors. again. he has decided that what the royals really need in the outfield is jeff francoeur. now, dayton is not the first to fall for the siren song of the frenchy. omar minaya - recently fired for being flagrantly, comically bad at his job - heard it too. now, i don't find it implausible that a team might find a use for a replacement value corner of. but who targets one in early november? wouldn't one like to see whether a more valuable player is left on the market in january or february, as has happened the past few seasons, like austin kearns or kelly johnson, who the diamondbacks picked up for a song?

the same story is being told in our nation's capital, where the nats have indicated an apparently serious interest in aaron miles. again, i suppose i can come up with a scenario wherein aaron miles is a legitimate option for your club: it's february, your farm has poor infield depth, you look around and ask "who is the best backup infielder still on the market who i can get for league min?" i can imagine the answer might be aaron miles. but, again, why in mid-november would you make that decision?

the a's made two early moves - trading for david dejesus, and claiming edwin encarnacion. the athletics appear to be engaged in some kind of experimental roster shaping. i believe they have decided, given their pitcher friendly field, to abolish the infield and run 5 or 6 outfielders at a time. all their pitchers will pitch to contact - flyball contact. seriously, they are hoarding defense-first, contact-hitting outfielders like they are going to be currency after the robots take over . . . but i've said too much. they are also inexplicably looking at signing lance berkman to dh, filling one of the slots you would think would be just perfect for a team with one or four too many outfielders to rotate said outfielders through.

dan uggla turned down a 4y/$48m offer from the marlins. the marlins indicated that was as high as they would go, which is too bad because the marlins could have had a middle infield making 10 times what all the other players on the field together make. seriously, though, it's good to see the fish make a serious effort to retain their best players.

for cardinals fans, the good news is that uggla is now on the market. the bad news is he will cost a lot in trade and want something more than 4y/$48m for an extension. i don't see a match for us there.

so, this year's hot stove season has begun with any number of inscrutable and dreadful moves or expressions of interest. if our team isn't making good moves, at least let those of other teams be entertaining.

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"cardinals" and "hot stove" are rarely mentioned in the same sentence

especially in recent years. odds are we’ll have the typical cardinals offseason, waiting until january and february to get everyone else’s scrubs. that’s one of the things i don’t like about mo… he doesn’t get deals done when they’re necessary. i would love to see westy back and us get a run at some middle infielders, but my gut tells me that none of it will happen.

by zoomzoomj88 on Nov 13, 2010 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

matt holliday would like a word with you

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 13, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Brad Penny too

I can’t believe that stupid narrative is still sticking even though we signed the premier free agent of last off-season, not to mention a (former) all-star pitcher.

by mattyp on Nov 13, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

and Felipe Lopez

…a dude coming off a near 5 WAR season

by mattyp on Nov 13, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

“The Cards never make any trade deadline deals either….”

-Bizarro

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 13, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

what are you even talking about

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 13, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

wait i understand how this game works

what also suck is that the cardinals have no top of the rotation ptiching! and it seems like that black hole at first base will never be filled with some competent prodcution

stupid cardinals

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 13, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i think Mo will perform better once the shadow of the Pujols deal is not over him anymore

of course that’s relative because we’ll only have pennies left to spend so…

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

*and* gals

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 1:36 PM EST reply actions  

arrrgggh MCC has found my weakness

montages

or, young catcher leaps at bearded guy many times.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

this one

too

growing weaker… from… clever juxtaposition of video with expansive music… rrggghhh

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, Cubbies.

Harry Caray statue base broken.

Also:

This is the one part of the statue I dislike. It looks like the six people that Harry wrongly sent to hell — and hell lies somewhere between the press box and Harry’s pants.

Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.

by The Continental on Nov 13, 2010 2:00 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

yeah, that looks truly horrifying

the two guys on the left looks very malevolent, towards the right it looks like someone screaming on fire alongside a demonic baby. always thought that this sculpture was really weird!

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 13, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

that's creepy as hell

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 13, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Given the rumors of what got Harry run out of town in St. Louis

this may be more accurate than you intended.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Nov 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

How is that not green?

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by ducttape16 on Nov 13, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

In a world

that otherwise made perfect sense, there was a man. A desperate man, clinging to the threads of his tattered career. A pact with Lucifer would ensure him the mindless adoration of throngs of drunken, blue-clad minions. But at what a cost?

Will Ferrell is Harry Caray in The Announcer. Directed by Wes Craven. Rated R.

Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.

by The Continental on Nov 13, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions   5 recs

Reminiscent of Auguste Rodin's Gates of Hell

Linki-pedia!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Never move to California.

That is all.

I AM DISENCHANTED WITH THIS STATE

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Nov 13, 2010 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

Where do you live?

I love California, at lest the northern part of the state.

by mattisnotfrench on Nov 13, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

see the previous thread

near the bottom

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks everyone who leaves CA ends up smothering all the nice parts of the

country(Northern Idaho, Colorado, the Flathead Valley, Jackson Hole) in a population boom

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

They all need to stay the hell away.....

It’s cold up here, no one likes the cold,

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 13, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Then you should move to New Mexico.

Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.

by The Continental on Nov 13, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Too late. Santa Fe has already been Californicated.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Nov 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

(musical accompaniment)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlUKcNNmywk

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

me too.

i live in fresno. shithole.

by sociopath on Nov 13, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

it's 75 and sunny here in redondo

I’m going to the beach tomorrow- and it’s November. Yuck!

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

don't get stabbed

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

OT... i'm not watching the Harry Potter previews

but they play in the background… and although I know what scene it is
when the TV says “All right, strip!”
I automatically check that it’s the movie I think it is.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

Re-reading Deathly Hallows right now

I had completely forgotten so many details since last time I read the books. Like, Kreacher is pretty important to the story for certain specific reasons, for example.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

they make fab door stops

but it’s mostly because the time pressures made her forgo any kind of professional editing. the last three could have done with a machete job, and they would’ve been closer to masterpieces instead of mishmashes.

so… this means you’re READING? and not watching A:TLA? VEB, den of readers.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, I can make time for both

About to watch the fourth episode actually.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

you got me on the 3rd episode, eh?

i’m sorely out of practice reccing shows and things, but I always try to pick some episode number — if you get here, and you like it, that’s it, man… game over.

but i’m not very good at it. i’m still trying to convince a couple of friends that once they get past Tom Bombadil…

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha. I never got to Tom Bombadil.

I could only take so much description of forests, the kind that have trees and stuff.
As for Harry Potter, I never minded the length because they read so fast. I always figured they must be set in somewhat larger than normal font or spacing or something, and weren’t actually as long as they seemed. As for whether there is unnecessary fluff in some of them, I was way too into the story to be able to be critical about something like that, so I’ll defer to others.
Anyway, Avatar is really growing on me. I feel like I recognize a couple voice actors. I figured out really quickly that Zuko is Rufio from Hook.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

dead to me!

never got to Tom Bombadil?

I weep for the future.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been reading it with my son.

We’re on Weathertop.

Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.

by The Continental on Nov 13, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Weathertop's badass.

it probably carried me through reading all the politics later

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry dooder

I loved The Hobbit. But I got about 100 pages into Fellowship and got bored. Someday I’ll try it again.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The Hobbit is Completely Different.

unless I’ve got all my histories mixed up, he wrote it for his kids when they were little and cute. the Trilogy (which actually isn’t a trilogy) was an opus that was partly corresponded with his son in the front lines.

again, this is out of my shoddy recollection. there’s like ten books about it, at least.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

try slogging through The Simarillion

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I did and I enjoyed it

/NERD

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

though granted, the part that stands out is the crazy incest.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah I have heard that he was trying to create a

Catholic Mythology

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

wait, maybe that was Lost Tales.

I’m actually still missing a few, but it’s fun to dig through. every now and then there’s this footnote about Gandalf kickin’ it and smokin’ some weed.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I can never decide for sure whether pipeweed

is regular or wacky tabacky neither was frowned upon nearly as much in the 30’s

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

So did I especially the parts about Gondolin

and the Creation Myth

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I have read the Silmarillion

its a bit like reading The Bible.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Nov 14, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

It's supposed to be

I really like his comparison of the two kinds of song, of the creation of evil and his description of the difference in the attraction to light or darkness

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 14, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

after a week of discussing popular culture on VEB

I have come to the conclusion that expectations kill more hours of enjoyment than anything else.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

or maybe it was spoilers.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

also he kind of wrote it so he could make up a language or five.

there’s a whole heaving war that goes on (which I dorkily looked up after reading the whole thing) but it’s best experienced as an increasingly dangerous travelogue.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

his son Christopher had a hand in

completing some of the other 8 or so LOTR books right?

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Christopher mostly assembled the notes

he was kind of the sounding-board, but I believe JRR did allllllll the legwork. I’ve always known the son as the Compiler and Finder of Cool Footnotes.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Tolkien actually went back and revised The Hobbit. He re-wrote some of Gollum's dialog to make him darker

to fit better with the version in LotR. He’d go from “bless us and splash us” to “curse us and crush us” and so forth. The Hobbit is / was more kid friendly.

Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.

by The Continental on Nov 14, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, they were completely different

The Hobbit was relatively easy to read. I don’t necessarily shy away from books that are difficult to read, but I never ended up having the time or inclination to get back into LOTR. Someday I will, I promised myself.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 14, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

6 and 7 are a mess

but five might be my favorite of the series. Or maybe third-favorite? Good, anyway.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 13, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i still like 3

nothing like finding out your role models might be murdering freaks

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

4 was the fucking best

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Nov 14, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

3-4-5 is definitely the peak of the series

usually my favorite is whichever one I’ve read most recently.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 14, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

it is snowing like a mofo

up in herr

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Nov 13, 2010 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

I don't mean to be pessimistic

But I don’t see this team improving much over the offseason. Our best bet is for existing pieces to play above their offensive averages (Craig, Jay, Ryan, Molina) and for Carpenter & Garcia to repeat their 2010 performances in 2011, which is unlikely. Is Lohse going to really pitch any better and/or stay healthy? Is Freese going to stay healthy?

On the plus side, I don’t think the team can be much more inconsistent then they were in 2010, so either we go down hard or we win the division

by riotmute on Nov 13, 2010 2:51 PM EST reply actions  

Wonder what Chief Justice would fetch as part of a trade?

As is being pointed out in Future Redbirds, Adron Chambers’ red-hot AFL is creating a real question as to whether we’d be better going forward with him or with JJ.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Nov 13, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

(illustration)

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

cards front office?

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Nov 13, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Mo carries a purse?

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

that's actually an old-timey briefcase. the leather just looks agéd.

it belonged to the judge. /cough/

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Old-timey?

1990s. sigh.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Nov 13, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

how? he died in 1995.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

so it was you!!

I didn’t read the whole page, but I assumed he used it while he was serving.

you sure your boss likes you? j/k

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

so you've been carrying a purse since 1995?

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

we're trying to convey

that the $1000 purses they sell chicks are actually tacky old briefcases. except made in the exotic orient.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Honey, i been carryin since 1965.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Nov 13, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

d-dee got told.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm gonna go stand in the corner now

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

actually, I just want to post the gif.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

No,no,no

d-dee’s my heroine. only one here that froths more rabidly than I on reading joe strauss.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Nov 13, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

If only one of them was right-handed, we could platoon them

and for The Chamber of Justice.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Frick

for should be form. Damn my crappy typing to wherever Harry Caray sends his victims.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

guarded by Carayberus?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Rescued by Harrykles?

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Nov 13, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Ferried across Styx by Charayon.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll put my two cents in

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Uggla is a perfect fit for us, but only for 1 year.

The Marlins are looking for relief pitching, so throw them one of either Boggs or K-Mac; Reifer, Sanchez, or Mulligan; Cruz, Anderson, or Hill; and maybe Kelly. Give them Jones too if they want him (jk).
Uggla is a realistic MI upgrade (offensively) that the Cards actually have the pieces to deal for (without having to give up Miller… hopefully). You let him walk after next season and take the draft picks, as he’ll probably stay a Type A FA.

Padres' RFL for GG!

by stxcardsfan on Nov 13, 2010 3:22 PM EST reply actions  

but, long term

nfw i’d give him even the 4/48 he was offered
at his age, only an AL team should be even looking at that kind of deal

more interesting is upton’s availability and their infield surplus

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Nov 13, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

or a team with a potential opening at 1B after next season

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

twue

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Nov 13, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

since he's going to very likely be Type A

the marlins are going to want to be compensated for him in that way too.

Other than Cano, Uggla was probably the best hitting 2B in the major leagues last year (considering Utley missed so much time). Even considering his arb salary, his surplus value and type A status is going to cost more than a poo-poo platter of right-handed relief and a AAA catcher.

Boggs, Lance Lynn, Cruz + lower level good prospect (Longmire?)? I’m not sure that package has enough upside for the Marlins. I’d love to give them Schumaker and $ for his salary as well.

As an aside, I hope we don’t trade Joe Kelly. I don’t think he’s a starter longterm but love him as another bullpen arm with a closer quality fastball.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 13, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

on the other hand, he'll cost $10M+ next season

so the Marlins will really pay for that draft pick, if they keep him. I’ll be very surprised if they do.

it just depends what other teams are willing to pay for him. He probably offers more marginal value to the Cardinals than to most teams- only 2 teams got less fWAR value out of 2B than STL last year (Mets and Indians) and I can’t see the Indians being interested, or the Marlins trading a star to the Mets.

Side note, I doubt if they still want relief pitching, after the Maybin dump. And I’ll be upset if they trade Lynn, even for a ~3-4 WAR upgrade and two draft picks.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

just saw that maybin deal too and agree about the relief pitching

the marlins will pay him the $10MM but will expect to get, say, $18MM in production value over a replacement guy (who would they play at 2B if not Uggla? Coughlan?). So you’re looking at something like $8MM in value plus type A picks when he walks.

In any event, I think they’ll deal him at the trade deadline. They’ll get to see if they’re in the pennant race, will get a lot of great prodcution for the price, and will probably be able to get the same trade value at the deadline that they would get in the offseason.

I’d like the Cards to trade for Uggla assuming we don’t give up Shelby and then let him walk after next year for the picks.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 13, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Kelly looked good as a starter until he tired out later in the season

I think he could stick in the spot if the Cardinals keep building up his inning count.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Nov 13, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Hot Stove Speculation...

So let me just start by saying I want Rasmus to stay but…

Marlins look like they may have an opening in CF(although I don’t know their depth chart)

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/padres-marlins-discussing-cameron-maybin.html

We get Ugla and something else good they get Rasmus?

Then I cry… :(

You fit into me
like a hook into an eye

a fish hook
an open eye

by Red Blazer on Nov 13, 2010 3:43 PM EST reply actions  

good...

Cheese gets better with age.

I think Colby will smack a lot of …“OH MY GOD” pettite style homeruns over his career.

You fit into me
like a hook into an eye

a fish hook
an open eye

by Red Blazer on Nov 13, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

he cranks em

I’m surprised people don’t like this more

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

can this just be the standard response

for any post about trading Rasmus? Please?

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 13, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

No

Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)

by mattyfrommo on Nov 13, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

well played

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 13, 2010 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

we need to stop talking bad (the truth) about aaron miles

or the Nats might change their mind
that way we can pick him up in July after they release him and will only have to deal with him half a season instead of the entire time

so let’s start talking up Aaron Miles!!!
- he’s got major grit
- he’s very handsome when you close your eyes and think of Brad Pitt
- he can surprise any infielder with a targeted bloop single that drops right behind him but shallow enough that the outfielder behind him can’t get it
- he might get your leadoff runner thrown out but he will get himself on first so even steven
- i’ve seen him hit a double once
- he’s a clubhouse … um.. presence
- he can sometimes make good plays at second if he has a good SS and a good 1B and a hitter with molinaesque running skills
- he can quickly disguise himself as a garden gnome so the hitter thinks there’s no one playing there and will hit right at him
- he’s a proven veteran ™
- he’ll play 1B, 2B, 3B, SS or pitch if needed
- he’s a born closer
- he’s got an awesome AVG and even more awesome ERA

so dear Nats, sigh Aaron Miles!!!
(i hope TLR is not reading this or we might sign him instead)

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 3:51 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

did anyone notice that Renteria said Tony had something to do with convincing him to choose moar baseball?

and he coincidentally wants to return to the Cardinals?

I’m going to reverse my Occam’s razor and assume any gritty ballplayer setting foot in the Bay Area is BOB-bound.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

some recent thoughts from Mr Tony Rasmus over at the Cardinal Nation blog (11/11-11/13)
I’ve spoken to Brendan 100 times and he is one kid who actually loves the cardinals and loves and respects TLR. [..] [H]e really wants to be in St. Louis, no matter what anyones says to him or how much they may tell him he is not a big leaguer, he still wants to be a Cardinal. [..] loves and respects TLR. Its definitely a one sided love affair it seems. He’s learning a life lesson the hard way, sometimes no matter how hard you try to please somebody, they always see you as second rate.
So the younger guys spend all their waking moments on the field worrying about not making mistakes and that only makes them make more. Colby has gotten worse these last two years. He was the most instinctive player I have ever had play for me in high school. [..] Now he looks lost most of the time. Brendan has looked the same, Greene as well. Jay started having his fill there at the end. Case in point, Colby was made to play much more shallow this past year by TLR and his defense slipped according to all accounts. 2009 Colby played where he thought he should have played. [..] Tony coming out and saying one day that he positioned Jay too shallow….not once did he say that about Colby. :) Yet he positioned the OF.
If Tony doesn’t like you then Albert doesn’t like you so then you have more to put up with than you can imagine.
Colby actually just found a new home in the St. Louis area, complete with a basement big enough for a full batting cage. He just put money down and has, I believe, had someone sign a contract to purchase his old home. Colby has actually scheduled some hitting sessions with Mark McGwire for this month as he knows he needs to be the hitter that Mark and TLR want him to be.

He actually wants to be in St. Louis and actually is excited to get after it this year in hopes that the team can win enough games so that TLR can retire a year earlier than he presently had planned. :) Trying to help TLR reach the Hall of Fame a year sooner than some would expect.

I actually believe Colby is in Illinois right now on a hunting trip with Mark McGwire. [..] I believe Pheasants are on the menu this weekend.
[I coach] a team, here in God’s country, Alabama. I am dead set on not doing any hitting work this year with anyone north of Auburn Alabama. That is a promise. Mark knows how to hit, hopefully he knows how to coach hitting.

[..] If TLr found out that I was going to be giving hitting lessons anywhere in St. Louis he may have the power cut off, or even may have the house bulldozed.
There is no doubt there is not much togetherness involved in this group. There is the pitchers led by Carp, There is the duo of Albert and Yadi, and then there is the rest of the group. All under the umbrella of leadership of TLR.

I heard this at the end last year when someone was asked why there was no fight left in the team. The response was that they were too tired from fighting among themselves.

i can’t tell if he’s making up shit or not or it’s a mixture of both. i think the man likes to hear himself speak, but he does make some valid points. regardless, he needs to stop talking on behalf of his son

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 4:45 PM EST reply actions  

he thinks the FO should give TLR a bunch of veterans

cause that’s the kind of people he works with best and just trade the young guys
i think the FO needs to step on TLR’s neck and tell him to stop being an idiot

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

On whose accounts?

Are you in the clubhouse frequently?

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Nov 13, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

"IMO"

does mean “in my opinion”. I may disagree with the guy on a regular basis, but he’s entitled to it.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Which part do you think is inaccurate? Moreover, if the criteria for having an opinion about the Cards is being in the clubhouse frequently, you should probably stick to your day job and give up blogging.

In order of the blockquotes:
1. I’ve seen several reports that Boog likes/respects TLR and wants to play for him. Boog also seems to be hard on himself when he fails the team/TLR. Given his sporadic playing time and other comments from the team about replacing Boog, I think it’s fair to say that Boog is often in TLR’s doghouse and that the love affair is one-sided, etc. His account of the Boog/TLR relationship seems accurate to me.

2. I think the younger players do probably walk on eggshells playing for TLR. I thnk Colby did look more instinctual defensively last year but looked much worse this year, particularly because he consistently played too shallow. I thought Jay played too shallow as well. Last, I believe TLR and the coaches do position the outfield and that they consistently fucked up in this regard. Again, accurate, IMO.

3. I think if TLR doesn’t like you, then Albert doesn’t like you either. TLR and Albert’s relationship is well-chronicled and it was apparent to me that Albert does not “like” Colby from Albert’s comments earlier this year. If Albert and Colby had a close relationship (and I’ve never seen any indication that they do) or were friends, Albert’s comments about Colby’s trade request make no sense. Again, the comments seem accurate and I think Colby’s dad would have some insight about how players on the outs with TLR/Albert get treated since his son is one of those players.

4. I don’t doubt that Colby hopes TLR retires soon. (I wasn’t expressing an opinion about the batting cage or the hunting trip)

5. skipping the 5th block quote, the 6th seems like an accurate picture of the Cards clubhouse from the reports I’ve seen. Carp’s the leader of the staff, Albert and Yadi are close, and a lot of guys are on the outside – like Boog, Colby, even Holliday.

Again, Tony Rasmus’ comments on these issues look right to me.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 13, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I make a point of keeping out of clubhouse dynamics as I know little about them.

(Front office dynamics are an area I’ll wade into on occasion but I do know some about that, if not as much as I’d like.)

Tony Rasmus has a history of speaking out of turn. For someone who often claims that he doesn’t talk to Colby very frequently, he sure passes along ALOT of supposed feelings and events from Colby. I don’t claim to understand that father-son dynamic but I’ve learned not to trust it.

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Nov 13, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

But I'm not looking for a tit-for-tat

so if I came off as dismissive, I apologize. I just think there are good reasons to be skeptical of Papa Rasmus (who has an axe to grind) and what he says on internet forums. It may not even be him! (Or at least he’ll say that later.)

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Nov 13, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Do we really believe that Colby's Dad is going to give a fair account of what's going on

I read this grouping of accounts as follows:

1. All the snot-nosed kids who used to be the best player on the team growing up are having a tough time adjusting to being average/needing to work their ass off to stay in the majors.

2. My guess is that most workplaces have social strata where the people who have been around the longest (and/ or are seen as leaders) and contribute the most hang out together and the newbies need to find their way.

3. That Colby’s dad makes it 1000% more difficult for Colby to assimilate. He needs to go monk-silent

Just win

by The Duke on Nov 13, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

#1 and #3 for sure
  1. probably shouldn’t really happen in mlb, these days, but probably does. Whether it happens or not is on the manager to decide, probably, and the manager should be judged by the results (doesn’t seem like tlr is). but may be too soon to tell.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

wow, how did "#2" become "1. indented" via sbn?

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

testing
  1. testing

eh.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate that

Sometimes auto-formatting is invasive.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

my brain kind of stopped somewhere around

Colby + Mac + armed somewhere in Illinois

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

why do you think i'm not leaving the house this weekend?

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I've bought into the TLR

doesn’t know how to manage a certain type of player.

And there are good players that are that type of player. And we just run them out of town or stifle them. I wonder what team Colby’s going to OPS .900 for?

by infallibleopiniongenerator on Nov 13, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

hopefully removing Floppy from the mix will help some

they were 9-4 after releasing him- that’s like, 8% of the way to 112 wins.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Odd young guys in the pen seem to be doing fine and Garcia was fantastic

(maybe they didnt have to worry about mistakes…being pitchers and all)

by jealousblues on Nov 14, 2010 4:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyone catch the article on the Secret Weapon?

Looking at the Mets job, it would appear. I would hate to see Oquendo leave, but the man has earned a shot at managing somewhere, methinks.

P-D Article

by JWO on Nov 13, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

he's earned a shot at managing the Cardinals, i think

but given that TLR will get another 10 one year + option contracts, i don’t see that happening

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm glad we didn't go after kuroda

11-13, 3.39 ERA last year. about to sign a 1 year, $12M deal with dodgers.

by zoomzoomj88 on Nov 13, 2010 6:25 PM EST reply actions  

Kuroda was a 4.2 fWAR player last year

That’s actually pretty damn good value

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Nov 13, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

one year, $12 million wouldn't have done it for you

for a guy who’s been really solid two years out of three, when Westbrook apparently wants multiple years?

by DanUpBaby on Nov 13, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

That's still a worthy investment at 1 year

And Lohse’s deal wasn’t terrible… he just had a string of fluke injuries. It happens.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Nov 13, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, no one could ever have predicted a decline in his age 30+ seasons

Not to mention, spendying 10% of your budget for ~2 expected WAR is usually a terrible idea.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

It didn't have anything to do with decline... it had to do with freaky injuries

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Nov 13, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, it wasn't a decline

since he never had a peak.

Mo paid him to be the player, from age 29-age 33, that he was from 22-28. IE, From 2001-2009, he averaged 2.1 WAR; Mo paid him like a guaranteed zero risk 2.3 WAR player.

Guess what- there’s risk. It was a terrible deal.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry, 30-33 as from 22-29

makes it an even worse decision, actually.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

you don't like kyle lohse

we get it

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 13, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

no, I loved him in 2008

and thought it was a mistake to resign him. I have nothing against him as a player or as a person.

It is a fair statement to say that I don’t like John Mozeliak, for signing Kyle Lohse to a deal that might prevent us from resigning albert pujols.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2010 3:03 AM EST up reply actions  

i gotcha

i don’t think that deal will prevent us from signing pujols. if we can’t sign pujols, it’s going ot be because of pujols’ demands

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 14, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The facts are terrible with Lohse

so it’s easy for everyone on this site to say this was a bad deal, but he’s been hurt for two seasons. The deal will never be able to be judged on its merits. This site is full of rigor on statistics but even if you hate the NTC clause and the salary over four years, you can’t say it was a good or bad deal. It’s just bad luck – we’ll never know if this was a good deal or not.

I think it was at worst a slightly worse than market deal at the time and factoring in the the great year he had virtually for free i thought it was quite defensible and had the potential for upside.

Just win

by The Duke on Nov 13, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

go back and read the VEB thread the day it was signed

it was a terrible deal then, and it’s terrible now. He had no upside; his “upside” was earning his paycheck. His downside was what we got.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 13, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

so

pretty similar to chris carpenter’s deal?

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 13, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

this conflation of Lohse’s deal and Lohse’s performance is a little tired. they’re hand-in-hand, but they’re not the same thing.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

meh

lohse’s performance cripples the team because he has been bad. Lohse’s contract cripples the team because it prevents us from replacing him.

it’s the gift that keeps on giving, and it was completely predictable. iboros hated it, chuckb hated it, cards fan in chitown hated it, nomar34 hated it, I hated it, etc. Soonerfan liked it, which should be evidence enough against it.

Interesting how few posters in that thread are still around, actually.

anyway, my quote from that thread- “we’re betting $50M that he’ll age differently from every other guy with a similar skill set. Hope we’re right”.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

but we're not talking about how predictable it was, which is my point.

the reasons it became bad ARE NOT the reasons you ALL predicted it would go bad with. you ALL predicted he would pitch badly when healthy.

The Duke is saying there is no way of knowing if he could have turned it around when healthy BECAUSE HE DID NOT GET THE CHANCE TO BE HEALTHY.

and oh my god, what the fuck, VEB? we’re right because we all say so and the stupid people said it was wrong? what is this? we joke about the collective but this is entirely stupid for fostering discussion.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

sigh

The Duke states that “the deal will never be judged on it’s merits”, and that is false. The merits of the deal are that Mo risked ~12% of his budget on a guy who might be worth 2 wins if he stays healthy and doesn’t do what every pitcher like him has done, historically.

Mo did not do a proper risk analysis. The fact is that he’s a pitcher, and they are high risk- both performance and injury (which are related).

Signing league-average pitchers to market-value (or over-value) deals is ALWAYS a bad move. Sometimes it works out, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a bad move.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

no, carpenter's deal was decent

i supported it when it was signed, and support it now. He had tremendous upside, and signed a below-market contract. With time value of money considered, he basically signed the same contract as Lohse, coming off of a cy young season and a year in which he led the team to a world series victory- 12 WAR over the previous 2 years.

Even missing 2 years of the new deal, he’ll come close to earning what he was paid. We were on the hook for $8M already in ‘07, which he missed (no way we decline that option), so the contract “cost” us only 0.5M in 2007 and 55M from 2008-2011. He was worth $42.5m from 2008-2010 and has a year (maybe two) to go on the deal. So it’s still in the “we’ll see” group, but his 5.6 fWAR in ’09 and 3.7 fWAR in ’10 were huge towards the team success.

Imagine if we’d been really couting on lohse/penny/etc?

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2010 2:36 AM EST up reply actions  

he was signed to a contract

that paid him $15MM for his age 36 season. there wasn’t a very good chance he’d put up 3.7 WAR his age 35 season, either. and that was right about earning his paycheck. which was probably his upside at the time. he also got hurt and missed a significant amount time.

in the "we’ll see" group

that’s the problem. you’re evaluating lohse’s contract based on lohse’s performance which has been dependent on things that were out of his control and things that mo’ couldn’t have known would happen when he signed him. people tend to forget that lohse had never been on the DL before. he seemed a safe bet to put up average production. it’s a defensible signing.

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 14, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

absolutely not

see the link above. Lohse’s contract was bad when he signed it, we all said it was bad in 2008, etc.

Carp’s contract will, at worst, be a push.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2010 2:51 AM EST up reply actions  

bottom line is, the ~5-6 WAR potential players are the guys you bet on

sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but they are the ones who are team-changers. That’s what you pay for.

You should never pay $12M/yr for mediocrity, unless you want to be a mediocre team. The risk is close to the same for both, and just because someone hasn’t been on the DL in the past is really not a point in their favor. it just doesn’t work that way.

This is also why you don’t replace ryan ludwick with Jon Jay. Even if both collapse, Luddy had the potential to be much more than Jay ever did- you let him do what he does and see what he does and then work with that.

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2010 2:59 AM EST up reply actions  

a good track record of health

is not a point in their favor?

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 14, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

the threads were universally negative at the time. But because people thought it was a bad deal for the next four years is not justification for saying the deal is bad now. He got hurt.

Let’s assume he comes back and throws up two 2.0.2.5 WAR seasons for us. I would argue then the evidence is that the deal was likely a solid (not great) deal ruined by two seasons of injury. In fact, had Lohse just done what was expected we would have made the playoffs this year and the whole situation would look different from the vantage point of a playoff run.

Just win

by The Duke on Nov 14, 2010 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's approach this from a difference direction

You say “had Lohse just done what was expected…”

What reason do we have, either in 2008 or today, to “expect” that Lohse would continue to perform as a 2-2.5 WAR pitcher from age 30-33?

As discussed in the 2008 thread, none of his comparable pitchers did that.

Is there any evidence to support your claim?

Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers

by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

if lohse had gotten a one-year deal

we would never have learned what fascial release surgery was.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 13, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Umm...

…I’m trying to figure out if this is a joke or what.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 13, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

look at that hr/9 he would be my dream replacement for De La Rosa

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Expressing myself in gif form

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Nov 13, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Furthermore,

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Nov 13, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions   5 recs

sometimes i wonder if you're trolling

or if you just regularly say the exact opposite of what makes sense

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 13, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

the 'recent activity' tab tells its own story

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

aren't those the same thing?

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Nov 14, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

cody

mind explaining how you made this again?

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 13, 2010 9:03 PM EST reply actions  

Cody's camera shoots in our "normal" version of space-time just like any other camera.

This is how Chris Carpenter appears to simple 4 dimensional creatures.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 13, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

they were my pictures

cody just layered them in GIMP. I’m looking for tutorials to do some of these myself

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 13, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

GIMP?

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by ducttape16 on Nov 13, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Brian Wilson does not approve of this

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 13, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

picture

link

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 13, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

so that's what Leno is up to these days

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Leno apparently disrespected the WS Trophy

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

So a quick question about park adjustments

They take the run environment into account when creating a park factor right? Is there any more science to this than just adding up the aggregate runs and home runs?

In the 1990’s the Rockies had an OF that outside of Larry Walker was made up of lumbering, aging power hitters playing behind a sub-par defensive infield, and with a pitching staff that was made up of rushed prospects, expansion draft leftovers, and FA signings that massively underperformed.

How much of fact that the home lineup is made up of Adam Dunn’s get taken into account on park factors?

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Nov 13, 2010 11:34 PM EST reply actions  

As I understand it, the basic component of park factor calculations is the ratio of home scoring per game to road scoring per game. Several iterations of adjustments are made to the calculation to account for the fact that a team doesn’t have to face its own pitching, differences between number of outs for home and road, differences in the composition of road games (due to division alignment, for instance), etc.

by clack on Nov 14, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

nice username

heh

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

but what makes you say this?

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm diggin Jessica Pare lately

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

new p-d story up

it has a little bit of new stuff in it

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_f4340e12-78ca-5a08-8744-22c627598ebc.html

As part of his winter blueprint, Mozeliak insists the club will more readily examine alternatives to Gold Glove contender Brendan Ryan at shortstop than second baseman Skip Schumaker or center fielder Colby Rasmus. Mozeliak called Rasmus “almost impossible to replace” given his production, potential and relatively low salary while admitting to strong support for Schumaker from manager Tony La Russa and his coaching staff.
Mozeliak holds out hope that the club can retain free-agent pitcher Jake Westbrook but allows that the club may reshape its search for an innings eater should the issue linger much longer.
“I suspect this is not going to be something that can leak into December,” Mozeliak said.
Mozeliak has worked to improve a sometimes jagged relationship between player and manager that in July led Rasmus to request a trade during a heated exchange with La Russa. Mozeliak does not deny an issue existed but insists edges have been smoothed.
“We’ve all talked through it,” Mozeliak said. “I really don’t see it as a big issue anymore.”
Mozeliak added: “I don’t think someone with his service time (two years) can pick and choose where he wants to be. That’s the nature of this business. If somebody didn’t want him here — the manager, for example — we’d have to do something about it. But Tony realizes he’s a talented player and can help us win some games.”

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 14, 2010 2:00 AM EST reply actions  

yes Strauss, thanks for rewording the same shit and posing it as a new story

ass

so that’s how we do business, Mo, we play favorites? Colby stays cause you know he’s great and a five-year-old knows that his value is way higher than that of a grumpy Larussa; but to place a shitty second baseman who really isn’t a second baseman at all just because someone on you staff said he was their pal, over your stellar ss who just needs some encouragement and a some more time and attention in the batting cage – that is the dumbest way to do business.
trade him and we’ll see what becomes of your pitching to contact strategy, when there’s no one there to bail out your rotation

bravo!

and Strauss, you are a fuckin moron for bringing this up again and again and again when there’s no development.
AAAARGH!!

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Nov 14, 2010 2:28 AM EST up reply actions  

i dunno

i think it’s kind of a coin toss. they were both pretty terrible last year. and i bet there are also better alternatives to upgrade SS. stephen drew would be nice. i can’t think of where we could get that kind of upgrade for second base

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Nov 14, 2010 2:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Ryan actually has a stand-out skill

Skip, at his very best, is probably around average, right? That’s if he pretty much does everything as well as he can at the same time. And we already know his defense at second base is pretty bad.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 14, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

skip's a replacement level player more than likely

unless he starts hitting again (even then that is not that impressive) and he somehow makes his defense much better

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

This is dumb

Brendan Ryan was worth a win last season and Skip was sub-replacement level. Boog was the most valuable defender in baseball in 2010 at the most premium position on the field. Skip cannot play second base. Also, finding production at second base is always easier than finding production at SS. So basically, you are wrong in so many ways.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Nov 14, 2010 5:43 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

FACT

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I just don't understand why the team seems to be bending over backwards to keep Skip around

I really like the guy, especially because he was willing to change positions. But he is way, way, way more upgradeable than Ryan and Rasmus.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 14, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

absolutely

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

How is the team seeming to be bending over backwards to keep Skip around?

Unless you define “bending over backwards” as not cutting him as sunk costs. The team hasn’t done anything other than simply keep him on the roster. (Hardly radical at this point in the offseason)

Do you think the team should have already traded him? My next question would be – for what? (I suggest for a box of kolaches, if we can get that.)

As for Ryan, the irrational Boog love is getting out of control. Boog is a premier defensive player. That’s it. His realistic upside is league average production. He’s Adam Everett. Which is fine. But it’s not like he can’t be upgraded.

You know how bad Ryan was last year? In over two hundred fewer PAs, EDGAR RENTERIA was 30% MORE valuable by fWAR.

Jerry f’in Hairston was almost TWICE as valuable as Boog by fWAR with the same number of PAs and the same atrocious BABIP. Seriously.

I even like Boog and want him to be the starting SS next year and I want Schumaker cut or traded, but let’s not pretend that a reasonable GM or coach would not look at Boog’s performance last year and say – “We might need to upgrade there next year.”

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 14, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say Boog isn't replaceable

Boog isn’t ever going to be that great either, unless he pulls an Ozzie Smith and completely reinvents himself as a good offensive player. I agree that the Boog love is getting silly, and I’ve had to temper my own enthusiasm for him after taking a good hard look at the facts.
The problem I have is that there seems to be this narrative now about choosing between upgrading at second base or at shortstop. The Cardinals are talking this up, not us lowly VEBers. Mozeliak and Tony have made comments about this lately. If it’s a choice between Skip and Boog (and I would shout from the rooftops that this is a false choice and it’s a silly exercise) then I think it’s clear that Boog is the one we should keep. I don’t see how that isn’t obvious.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 15, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

*facepalm*

this means we are going to have a shoddy defense shortstop starting most likely

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I really thought there were more comments in this posts

then I realized that there were so many extant comments in previous threads, it just felt like a lot.

Sunday thread.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 14, 2010 10:00 AM EST reply actions  

Men AND Women, Tom.

I’m just as addicted as anybody.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Nov 14, 2010 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

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