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Lessons To Be Learned and Lived

So we're in full swing of both LCS's now, with one series surprisingly close and the other just plain surprising. Honestly, if you thought the Rangers would be up three games to one, with just a single inning standing between the Yankees and an ignominious sweep out of the playoffs, then raise your hand up high and be counted. You are apparently a baseball genius.

As gratifying as it's been seeing the Yankees get knocked around, though, let's face it: most of us probably don't care a whole lot about the outcomes of these series. I'm sure there are a few here who either through geography or association or some other mystical reason of their own have a deep and abiding investment in one of these teams. I do not.

However, what I do care quite deeply about is our own El Birdos, and what lessons they might be able to glean from the teams still playing baseball right now. The Cardinals are heading into an incredibly pivotal offseason, and they can use all the help available. Each of the four teams playing right now has something to teach us, I feel; something enduring and meaningful about success and why they're having it. So let's just see if we can't drag those lessons out into the light, shall we?

Star-divide

I'm going to start with the National League, and then move on to the junior circuit as we go.

The Philadelphia Phillies

The Lesson: Patience

It's easy now to look at the Phillies and see only the model franchise in the National League, the dynasty team with the amazing core of talent, the team which seems to show very few signs of slowing down any time soon, unless their general manager actually manages to trade every last prospect they have in his quest to build the greatest rotation ever known to man. The Phillies are incredibly good, and it's hard to look at them and not be a little dazzled.

This is a team, though, which despite having players like Chase Utley on their roster could not break into the playoffs as recently as 2006. Their pitching was atrocious to the point their world-beater offense simply couldn't support it. It would have been easy to look at the mix and decide it just wasn't right, that something was missing, and blow it all up to try and start over.

The Phillies that we see today were not assembled on the quick. The core that gives them such a remarkable base to build upon began coming together better than a decade ago. Jimmy Rollins came first, drafted out of high school in 1996. Chase Utley was drafted out of UCLA in 2000, and Ryan Howard followed in the fifth round of the 2001 draft, taken out of what was then Southwest Missouri State. Cole Hamels came along in 2002.

Just as important as drafting and developing the players was figuring out how to use them. When Ryan Howard was on his way up the ladder, he looked to be blocked, quite honestly. The Phils already had a first baseman. Guy by the name of Jim Thome. Pretty good hitter, actually. But when Philadelphia felt Howard was ready to take the job at first, they moved Thome to make room for the kid they believed in. They didn't let a misguided belief in the value of veteranness or an attachment to a player whose best days had passed him by get in the way of their plan. They believed in the player they had brought along, and made the move to open a spot for him.

What the Lesson Means to the Cardinals

I think you can all see where I'm going with this, but here goes anyway. The Phillies team we see today took a decade to assemble. Through it all, they stayed with their plan, with their belief in the players they were developing. The Cardinals have been in serious draft and develop mode since 2005, just five years ago. In that time their system has produced one cornerstone talent and a bunch of players to round out the margins of a big-league roster. There should be at least one more cornerstone player in the minors now; some combination of Zach Cox/Shelby Miller/Carlos Martinez/Bryan Martinez/Oscar Tejada should end up as at least one star player. Yet we hear from the field management and even some factions of the front office about how unsatisfactory the pipeline has been.

The lesson is patience, letting the plan you've put in place have time to work, rather than making moves to fill holes today at a long--term cost. You want quantity of talent? How about the trades the Cardinals made last season to bring in Khalil Greene and Mark DeRosa? Matt Holliday was at least a player the Cards viewed as a long-term part of the plan; you can argue how much value there was in trading for him rather than just waiting and signing him, but the fact is he's a big part of the team's future. DeRosa and Greene, though, while both decent risks to take in certain ways, were never seen as anything more than temporary stopgaps until something longer term could be found. It isn't my intention to dig around in the past and criticise, but how good would Chris Perez and Luke Gregerson look added to the Cardinals' already-impressive collection of bullpen talent? At the very least it would present more opportunity for the front office to go out and try to acquire a building block for the future.

I know the calculus is a little different when the best player in the game is whiling away his few remaining hours in a Cardinal uniform surrounded by mediocre talent, but that actually speaks to another point I have later. For now, though, remember the patience of waiting for you plan to come through and let's move on to the...

San Francisco Giants

The Lesson: Elite Talent Goes a Long Way

Okay, look, let's not kid ourselves here. We all know what the San Francisco Giants are. The Giants are a one-trick pony of epic proportions. It just so happens that one trick is of Harry Houdini quality.

The Giants are, simply put, an okay team with a couple transcendent players. They don't really hit all that much, they don't run much, they don't hit a ton of home runs, and the defense is just okay. But good god can they ever pitch. The Phillies are a much better team pretty much top to bottom, but the Giants are up 2-1 in their series because their elite players have carried them to a 2-1 series lead.

What the Lesson Means to the Cardinals

Fortunately, this is a lesson the Cardinals seem to be learning as time goes by, but it still bears repeating: elite talent goes a long, long way. When you draft, draft the guy with the talent to be a star, not the future role-player with great instincts and questionable bat speed. The Giants are where they are now because they took the chance on Tim Lincecum and Madison Bumgarner. They picked those guys and paid those guys and now they can sit back and just watch those guys do what needs to be done.

Please note this is not an endorsement of the stars-and-scrubs approach to building a roster. I don't think you cannibalize big swaths of your team for the benefit of having a few huge talents. The lesson is when the talent is available to you you take it. One Tim Lincecum can make a world of difference; five Lance Lynns are very useful but will never do what that one can do. When you do all you can to build a roster with world-class talent, you invite in greatness for a visit. When you fill your house with mediocrity you only ensure there isn't room for greatness when it does stop by.

Texas Rangers 

The Lesson: There's Life After the Big Guy is Gone

A few years back, the Texas Rangers had one of the better sluggers in the American League in their lineup. Mark Texeira was a beast, no doubt about it. Funny thing was, the Rangers didn't seem to be able to get much of anything done with him out there. The team around him just wasn't good enough.

A couple years before that, the Rangers had an even better slugger in their lineup. They had given him an unprecedented contract to come and be the centerpiece of something special, but Tom Hicks and the rest of the Rangers' front office found that their budget simply couldn't support handing a huge percentage of their payroll to one player, no matter how transcendent the player or how Texas-sized the pile of bad idea money grew. Alex Rodriguez did his damnedest to live up to that massive sinkhole of a contract, but it didn't matter how good he was. The team wasn't good enough.

In both cases, of course, the Rangers traded away their centerpiece player. The A-Rod contract was bad enough they could only finagle Alfonso Soriano out of the deal (not a terrible return, but still), but the Mark Texeira deal was a pretty damned fine one. They got a remarkably promising young shortstop out of the deal, as well as a pitcher who's already closing for them and really is faced only with the question of what his role is going to be long term. It's just a shame Saltalamacchia didn't really pan out the way he was expected to. On the other hand, it does give us a nice cautionary tale, reminding us prospects are called so for a reason.

The Rangers are a better team now than they ever were with either Alex Rodriguez or Mark Texeira on their roster, a point against stars and scrubs. You concentrate too much of your resources and too much of your talent in just a few spots, then what happens when those spots fail?

What the Lesson Means to the Cardinals

Oh, come on. I know you can all see where I'm going with this one. The Cardinals have Albert Pujols, one of the truly great players in the history of the franchise and the game itself, on their roster right now. This season will be his last on his current contract, and he's going to need a lot of money to stay here. You can argue he'll give a discount because he loves the game and he loves the city and he loves to win, but I don't really buy it. When Ryan Howard got his big-ass deal before the season, Albert's manager refused to say they would use that deal as any sort of basis for a new Albert contract. The way they view it, he said (paraphrasing), is that there's Albert, all by himself on an island, and then there's everyone else. You can look at that statement a lot of ways, but I see it as a declaration that Albert should be on his own pedestal beyond everyone else.

Regardless, the Cardinals need to look very long and very hard at whether or not signing Albert to a mega-contract is really going to be the best course of action for this team long term. I know there are plenty of people who would swear off the Cards if Albert left, but I'll bet those same people would come back as soon as they started winning again.

It's hard to let go of such a magnificent talent, but teams win championships. Individual players do not. If you can get a return on Albert that makes you better, you take it. The Rangers couldn't win paying Alex Rodriguez 30% of their payroll; I wonder if the Cardinals will try to win paying Albert that much?

For the record: LB and I were discussing this very thing just the other day while hammering out some stuff for this year's Maple Street Annual, and Larry disagrees with me. He thinks you sign Albert to whatever he wants money-wise, but try to keep the years down a bit. If you can't get a deal done, you take one last shot with him and then accept the draft picks when he walks. I happen to think getting just a pair of draft picks for Albert might be the worst possible outcome; if you're not going to sign him you need to move him for the best haul you can possibly get, in my ever so humble. I don't have a point, I just wanted to toss in what seemed to me an interesting anecdote and get you all thinking about ordering your 2011 Maple Street Press Annual. Anyway, on to the final team, the...

New York Yankees

The Lesson: Money Doesn't Just Talk, It Wins

I don't hate hate the Yankees, but I do kind of hate them. Being sure Cliff Lee will pitch the next five years in pinstripes is sickening, to be quite honest.  It feels inevitable, and it makes you a little angry. Nonetheless, there's a lesson to be learned from the Yankees, who just buy whatever the hell they want and then go out and win championships.

If you really want to improve a baseball team, there's one way that's faster and more effective than just about any other: spend some money on it. The Yankees don't operate in the same universe as most of the rest of baseball in terms of revenue, but the principle remains the same right on down the line. If you want to win, you can always go out and bring in some player to help you do that, so long as you're willing to sign the checks. Money talks and bullshit walks, as they say, and so far as I know that's not a shot at the people who prefer on-base percentage to batting average.

What the Lesson Means to the Cardinals

The Cardinals have moved into a bright and shiny new stadium in recent years, one which was built largely on the theory that a new stadium would allow them to remain competitive with their payroll allocation. The attendance numbers have remained ridiculous, but payroll has somewhat stagnated. Unfortunately, there have been some remarkably bad decisions made on certain contracts (I think we all know which needlessly handsome starter we're looking at),  and the team needs upgrades. If you're serious about winning, then break out the wallet (I refuse to use that ridiculous contraction), and pay for more talent. There isn't a truckload of talent out there, but there's enough to upgrade this team. A player like Hiroyuki Nakajima, the Japanese shortstop set to begin contract negotiations with his NPB team today (and whom I wrote a column about this morning for the RFT in honour of said negotiations), will cost you money, but he won't cost you players. You don't have to give up talent, you don't have to give up draft picks. All you have to give up is money.

If the Cards think they need Jake Westbrook, then they can't count on him signing some sort of big discount deal. He has a right to get what he's worth on the open market, and I'm pretty sure he'll be more than willing to exercise that right. Pony up for the guy if he's what you believe you really need. Hell, the same thing could apply to Albert, I suppose, thus ruining one of my two points, but I think there's a line to be drawn between paying a guy and crippling your franchise. It's up to the Cards to find that line, or draw it if it isn't out there already.

***

Four teams left, each one with something to teach us about how to build a winner. You have to be patient and believe in the process like the Phillies. You have to be willing to bet on the big payday, secure in the knowledge that one big payday will wipe out all your losses in an instant like the Giants. You have to understand that one man does not a team make, and that just because you have to give up something you love it doesn't mean there's no opportunity for something even better to come along, like the Rangers. And then, when all else fails and you can't seem to get what you need to get, you have to be willing to reach for the pocketbook and get what you need to get the old fashioned way: buy it. Like the Yankees.

So what does all this mean for the Cardinals this offseason? Only they can decide that. But there are lessons to be had. Let's hope our team is paying attention.

The Baron's Playlist for the 20th of October, 2010

"Blangee Blee" - Land of Talk 

"Never Gonna Give You Up" - the Black Keys

"In Response" - Peter Wolf Crier

"Gray Sunset" - Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti

"I'm Gonna Change Your Life" - The Thermals

"Revenge Wears No Wristwatch" - The Walkmen (there's a live in-studio performance slated to go tonight on Rob Levy's Juxtaposition on KDHX. 7-9pm, 88.1 FM or streaming here)

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Connecting the dots

The fact Perez and Gregerson are gone must be Marty Mason’s fault.

by jjray on Oct 20, 2010 2:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Irony of ironies

The Derosa deal could (in the long run) be a worse blow then giving away Dan Haren…

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

How so?

DeRosa + whatever paid him for two relievers

Mulder + A LOT OF MONEY for a legitimate cost controlled ace

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

dan haren sux now.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure if serious

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh...about half and half

a way worse deal than losing perez, for sure. but dan haren isn’t really as good as he used to be.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's no way to really say that

According to Pitch f/x, his stuff is about the same as it’s always been. The distribution of pitches is pretty different, but that’s mostly a classification thing

And then BABIP, etc., that I’m tired of writing about

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

i mean, he put up a 4.4 fWAR this season. Thats a win more than Chris Carpenter.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

geez i didn't think i was going to get flack for this opinion.

after watching haren pitch pretty regularly for three years, he didn’t look as dominant this season, at least when he was with the d-backs. i suppose i could look up the stats and try to quantify it. i don’t think his split finger fastball was as effective, and i think his K:BB ratio was up. i could be totally wrong.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta park-adjust too, though

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're right, he wasn't as good as last season. And I'm too lazy to check his batted ball profile to see if it was luck based

But he was still a very good starter.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah thats why i said i was only 1/2 serious.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we discussed this earlier in the year,

when Haren being traded was the rumor du jour. I think Haren was not as good this season as either of the last two, but still better than three or four seasons ago.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

i concur in your assessment.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends ultimately

On how well Perez does over his career. But thus far, the kid looks good. It would have been nice to have that second option other than Motte. Just in case.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

in six seasons since we traded him

Haren has put up 29.9 rWAR.

No closer in the history of ever has put up value like that.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trades are two-sided

Mulder at least gave the Cardinals ONE good year. How much did we get for Derosa? 68 games, and an OPS+ of 83.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mulder was a multi year committment for a lot of money

And we got nothing out of him

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

As opposed to

Trading a young stud reliever for a rental player who broke down as soon as he got off the lot?

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Relievers are pretty fungible

Even good ones

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

but not GREAT ones really.

I mean Mariano Rivera…I mean, his career has little equal as far as closer goes.

by ADMDrayson on Oct 20, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

A good reason not to bet on his second coming.

"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy

by hazel on Oct 20, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

we got one decent year out of Mulder.

and gave up a serviceable reliever, an ace and an OBP machine that is just now starting to produce.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

We received the pleasure of watching Cubs fans burn their Dero

jerseys. I am exaggerating, it was only one.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Oct 20, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

or, to put it another way

Eric Gagne’s Cy Young 2003 season was about as valuable as Dan Haren this year in a “down” year.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're comparing apples to oranges

By your logic, we should always trade for the higher WAR player, regardless of position. How many GREAT closers are in the game today? Now ask yourself how many GREAT starters are in the game today?

I would wager finding a true 9th inning stopper is more difficult.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh nope

A starter is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS more important than a closer

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming similar stuff

Like a mediocre starter is always more important than a mediocre closer

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

People are arguing that Haren is an "ace"

You mean you wouldn’t trade Haren for say, Mariano Rivera, straight up?

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

nope.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many Franklins to you drink

During the 9th inning, when the Cardinals make the post-season? I’m curious.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's better than not having a lead to begin with because your starter sucks

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 9th is irrelevant if everything before it sucks.

If Lohse starts, how often would Rivera see action?

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are 8 IP before the 9th inning.

Without 8 good IP, the closer is a non-factor.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

One more log for the fire

Rivera makes $15 Million a year
Haren makes about $8 Million a year

Granted, Rivera plays for the Yankees, but you don’t think that perhaps there is something to be learned from this disparity?

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

That the market for closers is inefficient?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be more specific

The perceived utility of a closer is greater than their actual utility

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

Lidge is making $12 million this year
Papelbon is making $9.3 million this year
Fuentes is making $9 million this year
Wagner is making $6.7 million this year

Seems like a lot of teams are putting a pretty high premium on a position you don’t seem to think is all that important.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

doesn't make them right

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

i mean, given the volatile nature of relievers's performances anyway

and the ready availability of more, there’s no reason to invest so much money in an “elite” closer. Look at where Francisco Cordero is right now. Look at the rapid downfalls of Brad Lidge, or Papelbon or Fuentes. Pitchers who can throw very well for one inning are not that rare, and should be developed through the minor league system, not signed out of free agency.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hence, the market is inefficient

It’s not the best allocation of resources… the money is better used on a starter

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you're basically saying

The ownership of the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Twins, and Braves have been stupid with their money. Gotcha.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are implying that teams and GMs are infallible

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

basically, yeah

those teams have spent their money poorly

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since 1998

Those teams have won the World Series seven out of twelve times. Looks like they are spending their money well, thanks.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm done with this argument

this is one long appeal to authority with no objective reasoning. you think they won the world series because they spent a shit-ton on a dude that throws one inning every few games? fine.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

My only question at this point

Is have I succeeded at generating an artificial T.E.S.S., or do I need to post a few more times? ;-)

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, a T.E.S.S. is when the Cards fuck up a game in the most mind-blowing way possible

those really suck.

You just happen to be wrong on the internet. No big deal.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just happen to be OPINIONATED

Let us be kind, kiss and make up, mmmk?

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think those teams pay a lot of money

for a closer, as a political move. They are paying more money for someone so, they can say we got the best guy out there to not blow a lead, and if he does…well then at least we tried.

Whereas if they got someone who was just a plain jane reliever to trot out in the 9th and they blew it, the fans would cry that the ownership is cheap and needs to go out and pay rivera.

by ADMDrayson on Oct 20, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's a reason politics is banned here at VEB

give me Eduardo Sanchez anyday

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not what he is saying at all.

Matt Capps closed for the Twins this season. Fuentes was a situational reliever. I am saying that the Angels were stupid with their money when they signed Fuentes. And I stated that the time that the Cards would be stupid to sign Fuentes for that amount of money.

Papelbon makes $9.3MM. Well, the Sox are paying Lackey $18.7MM and Beckett $12.1MM. Each of these pitchers signed new contracts last offseason, if I’m not mistaken. So, the Sox clearly value a top-flight starter more than a top-flight closer.

The Phillies are paying Halladay and Oswalt more than Lidge. When Hamels becomes a FA, he will very likely make more than his team’s closer.

The Braves are paying Derek Lowe, Tim Hudson, and Kenshin Kawakami more than Wagner.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

and guess what, Rivera has almost zero surplus value over the course of his career.

Dan Haren’s surplus value? About 103 million dollars.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

ROFL

Two observations:

1) Who is more likely to get into the HOF – Mariano Rivera or Dan Haren?

2) Rivera in his 92 (!) playoff appearances, has an ERA of 0.72, and a WHIP of 0.77.

Forgive me, but don’t give me that “surplus value” argument. Steinbrenner and his sons probably think Rivera is worth half a billion for his lifetime of service.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

1) Is a ridiculous argument. Like seriously. Nobody's saying Rivera isn't one of the best closers of all time

But he’s not more valuable to his team than CC Sabathia

2) …Yeah, he’s great. He’s also not asked to do as much as starters are.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

rivera is helped by pitching his whole career for the yanks

the Yanks are always stacked to the ceiling w/ talent, which is why Rivera had a chance to pitch in so many playoff games.

youneverknow

by floodOfLove on Oct 20, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

And in all of those games

He dominated the opposing lineup. It was just him and his cutter against the best hitters in baseball. And he almost always won.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody's fucking arguing that

Rivera’s a great pitcher

He does not contribute more wins (NOT W/L, but WAR) to his team than a mediocre starter

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

THE RENT'S TOO DAMN HIGH!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now this is an argument that I can get behind

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wins and Value

Are two different commodities. Its like the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

Rivera’s very presence changes a game. Managers have to plan differently because he is always there as a weapon.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay, so he makes some intangible contribution that no one can measure

that’s why he deserves more money than Dan Haren.

I’ve got some magic beans to sell ya.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You won't be laughing when

I bring back the singing harp and the gold-egg laying chicken.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was a goose, actually.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 20, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Value is measured in Wins.

Here are the WAR for Haren over his career, and the value of his performance:

2005: 4.0 ($13.5MM)
2006: 4.0 ($14.9MM)
2007: 4.9 ($20.2MM)
2008: 6.5 ($29.1MM)
2009: 6.1 ($27.3MM)
2010: 4.4 ($17.8MM)

If Haren gets a contract of about $15MM yearly, the team will likely have underpaid for his services.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...

That’s a six-year average of about $20.5 million. You think he’s going to get a contract for that much?

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

my only contribution to this subthread will be to mention the 2008 cardinals and the 31 blown saves.

that is all.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

during which time we paid Jason Isringhausen 8 million dollars

to turn us all into substance abusers.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except in Arizona.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

my point was merely to suggest the importance of relief pitching and perhaps why it may not be asinine to pay closers as much as teams tend to.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm of the opinion

that a big reason why we had so many blown saves was that we kept trotting out the pitcher we were paying $8MM to be a closer. Perhaps if we weren’t paying him so much, the club would have quicker to cut bait on him in late-inning situations.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

ooh chicken or the egg? interesting point.

either way, that season sucked and did demonstrate, at least, the importance of a good closer.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

except we were actually paying a ton of money for a reliever at that point?

i don’t get your point.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't get your response.

the argument was whether relievers are overvalued/overpaid. i was merely suggesting that the answer to that question may depend on who you ask. i think the cardinals would have gladly paid $15m in 2008 for a guy who would not have blown 31 saves.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe, but paying more is just rarely a good solution

think of all the best bullpens out there. the braves, the giants, the padres. how many of their pitchers are signed out of free agency? how many are homegrown?

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about you get back to me after the Yankees sign Cliff Lee?

Not that the Yankees paying CC Sabathia $24.2MM and AJ Burnett $16.5MM doesn’t help us answer this question. If Dan Haren makes it to the open free agent market, he will almost certainly make more that Rivera. If the Yanks sign him, he will certainly make more than Rivera. (All of this assumes that either isn’t injured.)

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

This might make some people angry

But if Haren gets a multi-year deal where he is making more than $15 million annually, than someone has overpaid.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not a big alcohol drinker, and I find the rampant, socially acceptable alcoholism on this blog somewhat disturbing

but regardless, theres a certain romanticism given to the closer of a baseball team that causes people to overvalue them. It’s understandable, given that they are the pitcher who is throwing when the game ends, so people are more aware of their performance. But not only is the ninth only one inning, it’s also not always the highest leverage inning of a game.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Logic

tells me that the ninth inning is almost always the highest leverage inning in a game… especially when it’s close. You’ve argued that the ninth doesn’t matter if all the 8 before suck… I can argue All the 8 are worthless if you F up the ninth. I’m not arguing Haren isn’t more valuable than Rivera, or even that closers are not overvalued. It’s just you are implying closers hold as much value as a backup catcher. Lacking a shut down type guy in the back end of our bullpen has hurt us in recenty years in my opinion. Like some have said, SABR is only part of the baseball story. Trust me I hate Tony’s affection for grit and playing “proven” players. But sometimes this SABR thing forces fans to have tunnel vision and trust these metrics and these metrics only.

by thewizard3 on Oct 20, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

wut

No, his point is that the current iteration of a closer ONLY pitches the 9th inning, with a slight possibility that he’ll start with 2 outs in the 8th

In a 3-2 game, which is higher leverage? Man on 3rd with 1 out in the 7th, or bases empty in the 9th?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a no-brainer.

I would take Haren every time.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely not

Especially at their respective salaries

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its my turn to sigh

Some men are meant to throw 20-30 pitches a night and that’s it. Rivera is the greatest reliever of his generation. He has one pitch, and when it’s right, he is absolutely unhittable.

Btw, I’m no Yankee lover. But I respect that guy for his talent.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris Perez might be a damn good closer

but Dan Haren is an ace and now it looks like Daric Barton is gonna work out at 1B. That trade was a bad loss,

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Dan

But his career record is 91-74. His career ERA is 3.66.
He is definitely a horse, but I’m not sure if I would classify him as an “ace”.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

*sigh*

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

career FIP 3.67; career xFIP 3.64

career k/9: 7.7 career BB/9: 2.0

just by way of comparison – waino’s career #s:

FIP 3.36; xFIP 3.72

k/9: 7.45; BB/9: 2.56

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

God, do you even WATCH the games?!

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah. baseball is boring.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup, i'd give Waino the narrow edge with those numbers

but Haren has been doing it much longer.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

right. and if Waino is an "ace" then so is Haren.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post

But I’m just going to jump right to the playlist. Revenge wears no wristwatch is an outstanding song, top 5 Walkmen song for me (#2 on the album after Waaaaaake Up).

by lightbulb on Oct 20, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

My second favourite as well, though for me it falls behind We've Been Had.

Which I totally heard first on a Saturn advert.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 20, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the analogies

I read these comments a lot but never post mostly because the stat stuff is usually over my head but I just don’t get this. Haven’t the Phillies basically stopped following this theory and started using the Jocketty model. How could any team other than possibly the Red Sox or Mets use the Yankees as a model. Aren’t the Cardinals already the Giants? “an okay team with a couple transcendent players.”

by 51 on Oct 20, 2010 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

you do have a point. the phillies' payroll is now in the $140mm area, which puts them behind only the Cubs in the NL, and (I think) 4th overall.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

so i guess they applied a little bit of #1 and #4.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

if anyone's interested

opening day 2010 payrolls

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Phillies started out as a smaller market team than they are now, but after making the playoffs for a few years in a row (and a world series, to boot)

They were able to boost payroll to what it is now

The Twins did a similar thing

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, new stadium

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

why didn't we after 2000-2006?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

We paid for our own stadium.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, we did

    * 2010: $ 94,220,500
    * 2009: $ 88,528,409
    * 2008: $ 99,624,449
    * 2007: $ 90,286,823

    * 2006: $ 88,891,371

    * 2005: $ 92,106,833

    * 2004: $ 83,228,333

    * 2003: $ 83,786,666

    * 2002: $ 74,660,875

    * 2001: $ 78,538,333

    * 2000: $ 63,900,000

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

the phillies payroll went from $113mm in 2009 to $141mm in 2010

almost 30 million in one year. ours has taken 10 years to make the same leap.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on the CPI

That $88.9 million in 2006 is equivalent to $96.3 million in today’s dollars.

Also, when you compare to the rest of the league (not considering some of the cheap ownership groups, like the Marlins, Padres, and Pirates), the Cardinals payroll looks pretty stagnant since 2006. It went up just 5.3 million nominal dollars, while declining in terms of real dollars.

Brewers 2006: $57.6M vs. 90.4M in 2010 (up 32.8)
Cubs 2006: $94.4M vs. 144.4M in 2010 (up 50)
Reds 2006: $60.9M vs. 76.2M in 2010 (up 15.3)
Astros 2006: $92.6 vs. 92.6M in 2010 (no change)
Dodgers 2006: $98.4M vs. 102.1M in 2010 (up 3.7)
Giants 2006: $90.1M vs. 96.3M in 2010 (up 6.2)
Diamondbacks 2006: $59.7M vs. 75.5M in 2010 (up 15.8)
Mets 2006: $101.1M vs. 126.5M in 2010 (up 25.4)
Rockies 2006: $41.2M vs. 84.3M in 2010 (up 43.1)
Braves 2006: $90.2M vs. 83.9M in 2010 (down 6.3)
Nationals 2006: $63.1M vs. 66.3M in 2010 (up 3.2)
Phillies 2006: $88.3M vs. 138.2M in 2010 (up 49.9)

It’s pretty clear that the Cardinals payroll hasn’t been keeping up with the rest of the league, at least to me. Also, the payroll definitely hasn’t increased as a result of having the new stadium. If anything, the new stadium (and possibly WS victory) has caused payroll to sit around the same level for a few years. That kind of sucks considering how much fan support there has been.

by thegodfather on Oct 20, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i suspect the new stadium was seen a s new revenue

if they got someone else to pay for it

don’t know what their debt service is, but i’d guess it is more than rent would have been

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

So much this

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Oct 20, 2010 11:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Not really.

A very interesting website, Field of Schemes, breaks down Busch III:

The St. Louis Cardinals finally revealed the “investors” behind the private share of their $387.5 million stadium plan, and it turns out to be – tah-dah! – the St. Louis Cardinals themselves. Apparently unable to find anyone who wanted to own a major-league baseball stadium – gosh, we can’t imagine why – the Cardinals have decided to put another $30 million in cash into the stadium project, while selling $200 million in private bonds to finance the remainder of the construction cost.

The final tally, then, has the costs of the new facility breaking down like so:

* $42.7 million in state funds to pay for infrastructure and the demolition an replacement of an interstate ramp;
* $3.4 million a year from the elimination of a city ticket tax, which should pay off $42.9 million worth of bonds;
* $90 million in cash from the Cardinals;
* $200.5 million in private stadium bonds, to be paid off by the team at $15.9 million a year;
* a $45 million county loan, to be repaid by the team with interest – though the Cards can instead choose to simply hand over the stadium after 30 years, which they almost certainly will.

So while involving substantial public funds – somewhere between one-quarter and one-third the total construction cost, depending on how you count that loan – the new St. Louis stadium will still involve the second-most private money of any baseball park of the last 30 years, after the San Francisco Giants’ Pacific Bell Park, which was 90% privately funded.

It’s a site that is definitely worth checking out, if you are interested in this type of thing. Also, I wonder if the $15.9MM in annual interest payments may be why payroll has not increased.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice. Thanks.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

The St. Louis Cardinals: We're really just your average good ol' Mom and Pop operation

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

also

they had $90m to put in!

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Oct 20, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

my hands are still bleeding from the last bake sale

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

wtf did you bake?

acid cake?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

midnight shift?

he wasn’t baking then

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

was that what the whole cake thing was about??? a bake sale??? Really?

I thought ya’ll were just trying to impress Holliday with your midwestern goodness.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

at first, yes

then we were just trying to pay for him
someone was chained to the Kitchenaid

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

there aren't enough kitchenaids in St. Louis to pay for Albert.

We will have to set up a cake factory

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

interest

and then principal to buy/own something that no one will buy

unless the browns resurrect themselves

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Oct 20, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Philly was never a small market

Philly might have been a “small market” by payroll but it was never really a Small Market. Philly is and always has been a huge market. It is the 4th largest media market in the country and more importantly the largest without a second team. St. Louis by contrast is 21st between Sacremento and Portland. If you start accounting for average income St. Louis drops even farther. You just cannot compare the two franchises financially. Philly’s radio contract might be worth more than Cards’ TV contract.

The Twins are a far more analogous although still in a significantly better situation.

by 51 on Oct 20, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

So they're becoming more efficient

And we’ve always spent pretty close to as much as we possibly can

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Philly's efficient days are behind them.

They had team-friendly deals in place for major producers, but are now having to pay closer to the market rate to retain these talents. You could probably look at 2008 as their peak in efficiency. 2009 might have been the Cardinals’ efficiency peak.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I were the Phillies GM

Id dump the whole lot of them in the offseason for AAA/AA sure-bets and start over. I think curretn team will only decline from here, but the individual talents can generate a lot of prospects.

Just win

by The Duke on Oct 20, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Efficient

My opinion is that efficiency in this circumstance is hard to quantify. The Phillys have more talent but spend more money and if you listen to their ownership they claim they are maxed out in terms of salary. They have also potentially “mortgaged their future” in terms of trades in the last three years.

As an aside, I don’t know that I agree with the premise in the post that the Phillys are in a position to continue success for a long time. Werth is gone next year, their core is past age 30 and getting more expensive each year.

by 51 on Oct 20, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I meant from 2005-2010

They were coming closer and closer to the payroll that their market SHOULD be able to withstand

For awhile, they were vastly underspending that for whatever reason, and they might be overspending now

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

the Cardinals market is larger (geographically) than most

I think the organization could definitely capitalize and put together a sizable TV contract over the large swaths of the Midwest which are inhabited by Cards fans. As for stadium attendance, we punch way above our weight class. I don’t think the Cardinals are as mid-market as people think.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Cardinals Are Not Mid Market

Its true that the Cardinals are not mid market – they are certainly small market. If number of fans = value of TV contracts St. Louis would be in much better shape. Unfortunately it does not and the large geography works against the Cards. Outside the St. Louis metro area the St. Louis Cardinals TV rights are not worth much. The value of TV contracts are based on popularity and city size. The unfortunate fact is that surrounding cities like Memphis, Springfield (any), Cape, etc are just not going to generate the rights fees to offset the dramatic difference in population size. And the Cardinals can’t just walk into Chicago, KC, etc and sell their TV rights.

St. Louis is one of the few large spending teams whose revenue is almostly totally generated from attendance. Maybe they are not spending enough of the gate on salaries or maybe they could build a better mouse trap but they have serious disadvantages.

by 51 on Oct 20, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

You should post more.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is why the Cardinals should buy up their TV contracts

like the Yankees have. But, to be honest, this is not my area of expertise.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe

I have been suprised for the last couple of years that the Cardinals have not tried to start their own Regional Sports Channel. I assumed it was coming because by all estimations it has been wildly successful for the O’s, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and others. I think the problem is start up costs. I most familiar with the NY deals. Both the Mets and Yankees had significant partners (Time Warner and Goldman respecitvely, (I think)). Apparently the start up costs for the RSNs is much more than one would guess. I also think the radio experience might have soured ownership on this idea. My understanding is that the Cardinals pulled the radio broadcasts off KMOX because they set up the equivalent of their own radio RSN with KTRS. I think what they found is they did not make as nearly enough money as they thought.

by 51 on Oct 20, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

blues and rams in the dumps with no broadcast value

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Oct 20, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, where do you read about this sort of stuff?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

A little here and there

In terms of websites mostly the Business of Baseball. I have seen some stuff on Fangraphs and BP as well. The annual Forbes article on the value of baseball franchises is interesting. The leaked documents from the Marlins were also informative about the industry. Also websites that cover TV ratings. A lot I just picked up over the years. When the Cards were campaigning for a new stadium I found the whole debate about how much money the owners were making very interesting so I kind of just started keeping my eye out for that kind of thing. I also have a couple of friends in sports media industries I have talked to about this stuff.

I think it is a very interesting topic that does not get covered in the media nearly enough. One issue that I do not think Cardinals fans think about is how the fate of St. Louis directly impacts that Cardinals. As industries and talent have left St. Louis, the realitive size of the city has shrunk. Given that the number of eyeballs watching TVs and the average salaries of those eyeballs directly impact revenue, the trend for the Cards and the rest of the teams in the industrial midwest is not necessarily positive.

by 51 on Oct 20, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Phillies have gone to somewhat of a Jocketty approach lately, yes.

However, my point was not to point out how smart they are at this exact moment, but only to try and illuminate what was good about the way they got here in the first place. If they continue dealing away talent at the rate they have been the last couple seasons, I fully expect them to fall apart in a few more years when their players start to really hit the aging wall and the cupboard is bare of replacements. However, none of that changes the intelligent approach which allowed them to assemble this talent core in the first place.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did you just Rick Roll the play list?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Haha, Never gonna give you up

Never gonna let you down, Never gonna run around and desert you

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Oct 20, 2010 11:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Honestly, that did occur to me, but I decided against it.

Was concerned if I tossed out an Astley no one would bother checking out the actual Black Keys song. (which I sort of wish was a cover of Rick Astley, by the by.)

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I had to go check it out,

just on the chance it was a cover.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dead Money

Great article, Dan. My only argument is this continuing drumbeat about the Cardinals wasting money on Lohse. From my perspective, the Cards have a fairly tight, efficient roster. Other than Lohse, how much money is wasted?

As far as I can tell, the people getting the big bucks in 2010 earned their money…

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

It was RB, not DanUp.

Just saying….

Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue....

by Futility Infielder on Oct 20, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

What he said

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 20, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I stand very corrected

Apologies to RB, Dan, and whoever wants a slice of “I was wrong” pie.
And believe me, it’s a very big pie.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

dead money by year

2008 – Carp and Mulder $17 mm
2009 – Glaus, Kennedy and KGreene $22 mm
2010 – 2/3rds of PennyLohse $11 mm

by ubeddie on Oct 20, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

10% of player salary lost

Seems pretty acceptable to me, these days. How much did the Cubs lose in comparison?

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

A more systematic accounting is probably in order, too.

Freese was “dead money” last season, too. In ’08, I might consider Izzy to be in that category, as well. I think we also were still paying Edmonds in ’08. And these are just examples off the top of my head.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Freese?

He got paid 400 K, how is that dead money? Or are you thinking of someone else?

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 20, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, even in his short stint, Freese still produced more than his salary

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

overpaid, but by how much?

aav of 7-8 million seems better, but that is only 2m wasted dollars/yr

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was hoping for a link to the RFT article you mention

now I guess I’ll just have to go find it and pretend I’m not lazy…

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?

by nomar34 on Oct 20, 2010 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

BOOM!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

yay!

thanks!

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?

by nomar34 on Oct 20, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops, sorry.

I would have, but forgot. Thanks to RR for the assist.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone know where I can get some info on how many line drives that an individual hits actually fall for hits?

I know fangraphs has the batted ball data for how many line drives a guy hits, but I need how often those actually fall for hits.

Anyone?

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

by flipthebird15 on Oct 20, 2010 2:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you looking for spray charts from specific players with hits separated by batted ball type?

Or are you just looking for percentages for specific players?

"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy

by hazel on Oct 20, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Percentages of line drives that go for hits for individual players would work.

Either one would work though I think.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

by flipthebird15 on Oct 21, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think the point about money is the most eloquent

what is the use of having money, of earning huge profits if it isn’t going to be invested? I know that there is no point spending money for the sake of it, but there is such a thing as being too cautiious and that is what the Cards’ FO is (potentially). The similairity with the Rangers is a little disconcerting, that we may only start winning if/after Pujols slings his metaphorical hook.

VEB's only queer since '09

by Aranathor on Oct 20, 2010 2:49 PM EDT reply actions  

some of your lessons contradict each other rather seriously rb

the entirety of “elite talent goes a long way” followed up in the next segment with “It’s hard to let go of such a magnificent talent, but teams win championships. Individual players do not.” is a head scratcher.

guess there’s more than one way to skin a cat

by YesWeOquendo on Oct 20, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Poor kitty....

:=8(

Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Oct 20, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think they contradict each other

They just illustrate that seemingly similar situations (holy unintentional alliteration, Batman!) can actually be quite different and have different outcomes. The Giants are competing way better with their small amount of elite talent than the Rangers did, and there are many reasons for that. For one, I’m guessing the Giants’ elite talent is cheaper and less concentrated in one super-player. Bumgardner and Posey are not expensive but are very, very talented. What kind of pitching and supporting offense did Rodriguez and Teixeira have around them on the Rangers?
I just realized I have no idea how cheap Tex was while he was still with the Rangers, so that could be a huge flaw in my argument here. Anyway, the main point is that even though elite talent goes a long way, it can be a two-edged sword; if you aren’t careful you can get lazy with the rest of your roster and talented core won’t be able to raise up the scrubs high enough to compete.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

He signed a HUGE bonus out of the draft, I know that

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Back then, what was a "huge" bonus?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

$9.8 million

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 8:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Not a contradiction.

There are two statements there.

Statement One: You need elite talent, rather than mediocre talent, to win big. Ergo, elite talent is worth investing in.

Statement Two: Investing too much of your money and resources into one player, or even just a couple great players, will leave you with a roster that’s too top heavy and cannot support that elite talent you invested in.

Winning requires top-end talent, but you have to balance that top-end talent with the need for a roster that can produce from more than just one or two spots. That’s balance, not contradiction.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see how a roster constructed around a Pujols and Holliday type with great pitching would fare surrounded by really fast players with good walk rates

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

With those restrictions?

Very very very very very well

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

mwuhuhuhuhuh

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2010 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did you just ejaculate?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

not again

towel please

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

i don't even care as much about the speed

if you just put a bunch of OBP only players around Pujols/Holliday/Rasmus, that would be just swell.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

but the speed would just up their obp even more

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2010 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

It seems to me like Bryan Martinez is just barely on the radar screen

And I think you mean Oscar Taveras, unless there’s some exciting Oscar prospect that somehow completely escaped me. As for the other three, yeah, I think there’s some star power there.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Who is Bryan Martinez?

I only know of Carlos “formerly Matias” Martinez.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's the sadly unknown Martinez who put up great numbers this year at the Dominican and Gulf Coast leagues.

He’ll sneak into the tail end of my top 20 prospects.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=martin002bry

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not how he's doing it.

He’s a stuff guy, very raw still at the moment.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm ranking Tyrell Jenkins above him at the moment

just because i really don’t know about Bryan. Theyre both very raw, obviously. But one has Dominican numbers and I’ve seen lots and lots of video of the other and read more scouting of the other. I like what I’ve seen and heard about Tyrell and so I’m favoring the scouting over the numbers for the moment.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coolness

Yet another name to keep an eye on. I am getting excited to watch the prospects we have in the low minors.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's our alternate Martinez.

Not as heralded as Carlos, but the numbers are pretty ungodly.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Oscar Tejada is in the Red Sux organization.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Oct 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right. Taveras.

My mistake. I was typing this in a hurry this morning and pulled the wrong name out of the old mental bag. Good catch.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Supplemental

Other available lessons.

Yankees/Jeter: trotting out the fan favorites year after year is no way to guarantee performance. I think Carp, Holliday, and Albert may still have their best year ahead of them, but only because they posses tremendous talent AND determination that together can will them beyond reasonable expectations. If this proves true, it will be in spite of their maturity, not because of it. Eventually all will decline, even to replacement level, despite their salaries.

Phillies/Oswalt: If you have millions burning a hole in your pocket mid-season and hopes of the playoffs (even if you’re not first in the standings) you go get the best damn player available, whether they fill a gaping hole or not. It doesn’t take cash to import mediocrity, but you can spend it anyway.

by oldchap on Oct 20, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Peak Performance

Position players typically peak at age 28 or 29. Pitchers typically peak a little later. If we assume that Pujols, Holliday, and Carpenter follow typical aging patterns, their best seasons are likely behind them.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uhhh are you sure?

I’m pretty sure pitchers peak earlier

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh wait. Nevermind

The picture I was looking at was scaled funny

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who knows about Pujols

nothing would surprise me from that guy. Holliday seems to be following an untraditional career path (read this little blurb on his career in Sickel’s most recent post. But for sure, Carp’s best days are behind him. We should trade him.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree about holliday...he may have "peaked" but i expect to see him repeat 2010 production at least 3-4 more times.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know if I expect quite that from him

but I definitely think he’s still in his peak.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are reasons Hall of Famers are in the Hall of Fame.

Usually, it’s some combination of transcendent skill and longevity. Even so, expecting Pujols to achieve Hall of Fame longevity is still a gamble.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not like his production has followed a typical aging curve. The dude sprung into the major leagues, a fully formed superstar

and has basically been doing the same thing over and over for a decade. That consistency speaks of someone who can maintain his production. Unless he gets smacked by injuries (which could very well happen) I don’t see any red flags that would indicate a lack of longevity.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The red flag is nature.

I want to be clear that I don’t disagree. If I am going to pay a player on the wrong side of 30 a lot of money for a lot of years, I think Pujols is the best gamble to take. He already plays first base and is highly skilled with the glove there. But, you could have written what you just did about Todd Helton, jason Giambi, Albert Belle, and Frank Thomas, too. With age, injuries seem to nag a little bit longer and take a little larger toll on production. With age, a player also seems to be more susceptible to injuries. And we can’t afford paying $30MM for $10MM in production. (Unlike, say, the Yankees or Red Sox, which can absorb a non-producing big ticket player.)

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not like his production has followed a typical aging curve. The dude sprung into the major leagues, a fully formed superstar

and has basically been doing the same thing over and over for a decade. That consistency speaks of someone who can maintain his production. Unless he gets smacked by injuries (which could very well happen) I don’t see any red flags that would indicate a lack of longevity.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe its a gamble

But Pujols has played the following number of games each season:

2001 – 161 games
2002 – 157 games
2003 – 157 games
2004 – 154 games
2005 – 161 games
2006 – 143 games
2007 – 158 games
2008 – 148 games
2009 – 160 games
2010 – 159 games

Pujols and his longevity look like a good bet, to me.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

HFS...he only got one day off his rookie season? incredible

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

he is the maching, right?

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also...

He had a rookie OPS of… wait for it… 1.013.
If I was Tony, I’d ride that horse into the ground too.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll never forget the season's second series against the Diamondbacks.

He had 4 hits in the first two games. Then, Game 3 featured The Big Unit vs. Ankiel as the pitching match-up. Pujols crushed a 2-RBI double off of Johnson. Then, I made Pujols on Triple Play Baseball and my brother said I made his circle too big and that he wasn’t that good of a hitter. Little did either of us know…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

i saw ankiel pitch against johnson here in arizona that year. ank won.

/weeps

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That double

That was when I knew he was going to be impressive (though, of course, not THIS impressive).

If I remember right, he was down 0-2 in his fifth career game against Randy Johnson. Just hitting the ball would have been an achievement then, but to take a good pitch and turn it into a double was incredible.

I still have that game on VHS somewhere.

by Cardinal70 on Oct 21, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

LIVE STREAMS for today

ALCS game 5 at 3 pm central
NLCS game 4 at 6:30 pm central

ST streams for both

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 3:34 PM EDT reply actions  

I may be crazy, but I really wonder if the payroll hasn't gone up THAT much

because DeWitt is setting aside money for Albert.

I know, it’s not probable. But it’s possible. It’s what a normal person who sees a cash problem in the future might do.

by sdrone on Oct 20, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

We're also assuming that the Phillies aren't stupid

They very might well be outspending what is prudent

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Howard's extension?

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nevermind...I'm agreeing with you.

(Note to self: Read beyond the subject line.)

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I am reading Cot's right,

they have $143MM+ already committed for 2011, and that is without arbitration salaries. The Phillies also already have $86MM+ committed for 2012.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't forget the present economic situation

that has a major impact on financial operations of any company and one that depends heavily on ticket sales should be cautious with overspending if the return at present is unknown

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that ownership using fear about ticket sales

to justify a lower payroll is a weak argument.

2010 attendance: 3.30M (4th in MLB)
2009: 3.34M (4th)
2008: 3.43M (4th)
2007: 3.55M (4th)
2006: 3.41M (4th)

That’s pretty darn good attendance considering the Cardinals haven’t won a playoff game since 2006.

by thegodfather on Oct 20, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, if I remember correctly...

the Cardinals were openly conservative about their attendance expectations when the economic downturn started. They then were openly pleasantly surprised when it didn’t appear to have a very significant effect. Who knows how much of that was posturing. But by their own account the economy didn’t have the huge negative impact on ticket sales that some people feared.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Giants spending

The Giants also spent $126 mm on Zito and $60 mm on Rowand. Zito didn’t make the playoff roster and the Giants still owe him $64.5 mm in the next three years. Rowand has 5 PA’s in the postseason so far and his contract runs two more years for $24 mm. That’s a lot of Dead Money.

by ubeddie on Oct 20, 2010 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

True.

The Giants have, in a bizarre way, been successful in rebuilding almost in spite of their front office’s best efforts on the market.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've said it before and i'll say it again.

Yankee pitchers pitching MEEEAAAAT in this series.

VEB's only queer since '09

by Aranathor on Oct 20, 2010 4:10 PM EDT reply actions  

this is kind of a meaty post...

are we watching the Yanks death rattle here or in the morning overflow?

Maybe we should game thread over there so it doesn’t get too craaaaazy.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

look back

the post is now a game thread

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know, y'all could have just mentioned it.

it was cut and pasted from MLB.com.

so it’s their fault.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

not to mention, I don't see anyone else bothering to make an overflow

/rattles tip jar

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Noticed it much earlier. Figured you c&p'ed.

Pretty bad for MLB to flub that.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

thar uh perfesionul orguhnisashun

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You jinxing jinxer you

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn, 5-0 yanks. B2B HRs from Swish and Cano

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm a little sad the cameras didn't zoom in on the fans like they did yesterday

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Oct 20, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that Tosh?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

that does sorta look like him

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Oct 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

That guy behind deputy dog there

Is saying some naughty words. Over and over…

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

And over and over!

hahaha…

"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.

by pattimagee on Oct 20, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or maybe zoomed into this group during the later innings.

Oh wait, those seats would have been empty.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

What is that dude on the right saying to his kid?

-- -- -- -- - his glove”

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Effing Yankees fans.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really can't figure out why New Yorkers are despised

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Oct 21, 2010 5:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh Rangers :(

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not giving up on this one

Rangers have been scoring massive numbers of runs. They better hope CC keeps chugging along.

by JWO on Oct 20, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy shit

Yanks are cursed at 1B

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

i was going to suggest trading their 3B for our 1B to break both curses, but then i remembered that that would be a terrible idea

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

thinking of that made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

what if we trade OUR 3B for THEIR 1B

which, I think at this point is swisher. so freese for swish straight up?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would be more interesting.

Although if they decided to put David at 1B, he would be CHILLY to the idea of putting his fragile body against the Yankee’s “curse”

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fat Elvis is down!

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Oct 20, 2010 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

its really only the 6th inning?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 6:38 PM EDT reply actions  

AL baseball.

Quick, efficient, exciting…

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

alright, someone in strauss' chat today called him "master of the inside whispering"

show yourself!

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

by the way, strauss says pujols sat for a 60 Minutes interview recently.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

60 Minutes

I believe they followed him to the Dominican as he sets up a baseball league down there. Mainly his off-the-field charitable stuff. I’ve heard it’ll be on sometime in November.

by Cardinal70 on Oct 21, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I assumed it was you, and that you were being sarcastic.

You are one of the few left who rides the Straussicorn ocean disaster wave. Or, whatever it is called.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 20, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i dont participate in the live chat, but i do sometimes read the transcripts when VEB is dead...like right now.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy Crap.

I’m Getting Live Video Through At Bat On My Droid.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm with EJ, Kareem in the back was pretty funny

Smoltzi looked so happy in that picture.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

That was a nice play

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 7:28 PM EDT reply actions  

They're showing clips from the 1996 NLCS

my first sports-related heartbreak. It hurts to this day.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 7:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I hated the Braves for years because of that.

It’s still kind of tough to see that footage.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

those scenes of Eck cheering after closing out Game 4

is when I truly fell in love with baseball. And then I quickly realized how much loving baseball can suck…

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't remember much other than the heartbreaking camera shots of Ozzie

with that “well, this is how my career is gonna end, that kinda sucks” look on his face in game 7.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

F'in Donovan Osborne

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

yuck the fankees?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 7:35 PM EDT reply actions  

how did derek jeter win so many golden gloves?

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

because he's a true yankee.

True Yankee
A leader. A guy who’s full of intangible qualities that help him triumph – with class. Derek Jeter. A guy who has a certain look in his eye, like he knows what it means to don the pinstripes with some motherfletching pride. Bernie. Mantle. Joe D. Jeter. A guy who you want in the trenches with you. Mattingly. Joe Girardi. Derek. Jim Leyritz. Posada. Derek Jeter. A guy who stares adversity in the face and says, "I play for the Yankees, and that means something, and I am going to hit a HR off BK Kim in this World Series Game because I am a New York Yankee." Scott Brosius. Tino. Dave Justice. Derek Jeter. A winner. Derek Jeter.
Here are some people who are not True Yankees: Alex Rodriguez, Mike Mussina, Jason Giambi, Alfonso Soriano, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, and every other New York Yankee who has never been on a Yankees’ World Series winning team.
If you ever – ever – hear someone use the phrase "True Yankee," for any reason, I want you to find the nearest exit, form an orderly line, and leave the premises quickly and calmly. Seek shelter. Cover head. Report the incident to your nearest FJM representative immediately. You are in great danger, because the person you are talking to is an idiot.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other True Yankees

Roger Clemens, Kenny Rogers, Darryl Strawberry, Cecil Fielder, Chuck Knoblauch. And Alfonso Soriano was on 2 of their championship teams.

I hate Yankee fans. I’m guessing the 80’s had no “True Yankees”

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mattingly was it.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

A True Cardinal.

A dude with a mustache. One who “DON’T GIVE A F*CK!”

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also... This

Makes me happy.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

um...was that really horrible or was it just the radio feed?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 7:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Huey Lewis!

Looks old…

Am I the only one on VEB?

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 8:07 PM EDT reply actions  

No...

There is another…
At least for a few more minutes.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 20, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm here

I also have ice cream to eat so I may get distracted.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally understandable.

We all scream for ice cream.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

giants up 1-0......

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 8:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with Buck and McCarver

Does that make me a bad person?

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 8:32 PM EDT reply actions  

McCarver has not been nearly as irritating durning this series.

So I would say no, you are not a bad person

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I acutally like Joe Buck.

Maybe it’s because I remember the days of him doing Cardinals games with his dad. But I think he does a pretty solid job for TV baseball

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well the Phillies have figured out how to keep Cody Ross from driving in runs

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 8:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this

even though the talk about elite players and not paying too much for a player is at odds. I’m going to have to agree with lboros on this one.

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 8:34 PM EDT reply actions  

I have been interested in comparing Giants/Cardinals finances

Because they are two teams that did not get a lot of public funding for their stadium. I was living in the bay area when that stadium was built and wondered how it would effect things here. SF is a much bigger market of course, but there are a lot of ways to spend your money in SF. In StL baseball is king. Someday I will get the time.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I kinda agree with RB about Albert, even though I would hate to see him leave.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going with the theory that he will give a slight discount, and the team will up payroll

might be wishful, but hey

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

my heart says keep him

my brain says trade

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Oct 20, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I commented on Vince Coleman yesterday

and got ripped. The general tone of the comments was that his sabr-stats suck and who would want a player like that.

I get all all the sabr stuff, but does anyone who saw Vince Coleman in his hey day think that any team wouldn’t want him at the top of the order wreaking havoc. Its fascinating to hear people talk about him like he couldn’t possibly add value — “league average, we could get a hundred like him”. Clearly he was the centerpiece of those teams in the mid 80’s.

Does that Mean Lou Brock couldn’t get anyone’s interest either? When you see highlight reels of the mid-60s, they don’t show the guys putting up the big stats, they show Brock making teams look like they were playing in a different sport.

If we think Brock and Coleman wouldn’t be fit to be on our team, then the stats have to be missing something.

Just win

by The Duke on Oct 20, 2010 8:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Vince Coleman is no Lou Brock.

Not even close.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that is what he was trying to say...

Brock was a transcendent player. I’m with Duke on this. I understand the value of sabermetrics. They are incredibly useful/powerfu tools. But sabr-stats aren’t perfect and they don’t tell the whole story. Sabr-stats, just like any other stat, are open to a wide-range of interpretations. They should be just one part of the matrix of evaluating a player’s value.

Now…I don’t know what else could/should be used. That is just my badly-worded, uneducated and probably ill-advised opinion.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that the argument against Vince

is at what point does speed out weigh a.324 obp? Speed only works when it’s on base.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone who watched vince know how often he stole third?

i mean stealing third should add like zero value when you have lighting speed. All I can imagine is the squeeze at home will be more likely.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Oct 20, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

how many times do you see a pitcher concerned about a guy stealing third

Vince unnerved everyone when he was dancing off of second. Every time Vince was on-base there was a chance for something unexpected happening. I don’t know how the stats can pick up on this, but he had a far bigger impact than his basic stats would show.

And as Joe Torre used to say about Whitey’s teams — “they are always going from first to damn third”.

Just win

by The Duke on Oct 20, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is calculated into WAR, I believe

IIRC, it’s essentially how much more often you take first to third over the average player in a certain situation

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok --let's go with WAR

12.8 in six seasons and he rates as a pinch runner for you?

Just win

by The Duke on Oct 20, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, I would obviously start him

That’s basically an average player

I’m not saying he’s a bad player by any means, but as a personal preference, I’d rather have OBP over speed

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

right, Coleman had legendary speed

and still only rated as an average player.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

If speed is where all his value is coming from, why wouldn't i try to just pinch run him?

that’s getting on base 162 times a year(once a game compared to my calculated 1.41 times a game).
aside from a couple of starts I don’t see any harm using him exclusively as a pinch runner.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Oct 20, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Herb Washington!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whippersnapper!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

29 in 74...good for 7th in the league.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I cannot confirm nor deny this

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

How does WAR translate over the "eras" of baseball

how well does it take into effect the different conditions of the game in the 80’s or 90’s?

Does that make any sense?

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's adjusted for run environment, yes

wOBA – league average wOBA divided by 1.15 times plate appearances = runs above average by linear weights. Simple, easy, and accurate. This is the joy of wOBA.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

wOBA seems like a good way to measure the batting of a player

I used to love OPS, I understand why wOBA could be better. Thank you mysterui!

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

i remember vince coleman

his best weapon was speed. i don’t know how sabemretrics accounts for speed. that would be interesting to look at.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks Cody

I read it. I didn’t necessarily understand it. I need to know why a stolen base is worth .018 wins. I guess I need to go read THE BOOK. that will be a while.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Money Quote
For the same reason, outs are more precious, which makes a caught stealing even more devastating. As an example, the win value of a stolen base in 1968 (the Year of the Pitcher) was .027 wins, while being caught stealing only cost the team .04 wins. This lead to a breakeven point of just below 60 percent.

If we took Vince Coleman in his prime and transplanted him directly into today’s run environment, he’d basically be Michael Bourne. He was more valuable then than he would be now because of the relative scarcity in runs

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Michael Bourn, All-Star.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You got it right with your last sentence.

Mid 80’s Vince Coleman was more valuable in the mid 80’s than he would be now. But if he played now, he would be a different player. Which, I know, isn’t really making any sort of point.

I grew up watching Whiteyball. I LOVE speed for a team. I wish the Cardinals had better basestealers. If the Cardinals has 100 SB guy, I would probably cry of happiness. So I probably overvalue it.

How good a baserunner was Vince, outside of the basestealing?

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have such great memories of that time I probably overvalue it too.

Sports reporters in other cities used to write long articles about the Cardinals and their speed when they came to town. The speed was different and they were very successful. Pitchers did not know how to handle it. Vince was the rookie of the year. It was all so awesome.

I don’t know what kind of baserunner he was. I just looked at his numbers on BR and he sure did strike out a lot.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

And mediocre is very, very generous

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's not the question

that’s a sabr-answer to my question. Give me a robot with the following stats, and I’ll tell you whether I want him on my team or not.

The question is, would you want Lou Brock and Vince Coleman. I think that is a much different question.

Just win

by The Duke on Oct 20, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

on the 2011 team?

Lou Brock-yes
Vince Coleman- pinch runner.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Oct 20, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brock yes.

Coleman, maybe.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can I have Willie instead?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 20, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I blame Willie for Miles...

TLR always trying to find the next super(duper)utility guy that he had with Willie. Willie was the first (and only) “King of the Grit”

Just stop it TLR. Willie was one of a kind.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I say Willie

I mean the Willie that played CF not the utility guy Willie. Big difference.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 20, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either way.

I’d like them both. Especially over Aaron Miles (the batter/fielder)

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

posey is a pimp!

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 8:54 PM EDT reply actions  

sometimes he reminds me of well-trimmed Jon Heder

and he is pretty good at baseball.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, good at baseball.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

let's stay on topic, here

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha I didn't get this the first time around

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buster Posey has some Molina in him

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:20 PM EDT reply actions  

no seriously look at the Giants' first round picks from 06-08

2006-lincecum
2007-Bumgarner
2008=Posey
2009-Zachary Wheeler(TBD)

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Oct 20, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Sabean...

once said he’d rather have no first rounder at all then pay the going rate… I wonder if this little run of blind luck has changed his thinking at all.

Fire La Russa!

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

sabean was having a lot of luck with signing high priced free agents so maybe

he decided to try something different.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

oops he was NOT having a lot of luck with free agents.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Rated R Superstar

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 9:30 PM EDT reply actions  

soooo....

quick hook for Bumgarner, then leave Casillas in no matter what happens.

Fire La Russa!

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 9:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Casilla needs a beard.

True Fact: Beard have a calming effect on the wearer.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

damn, can you believe this fuckin inning...

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I recall back in January talking up the Rangers

but even I didn’t think they’d go this far in the playoffs…of course, after today’s game, it’s now possible to contemplate that this might be as far as they go, if the Yankee bats have truly awakened. Still, I hate the Yankees more than any other team in baseball, bar none, so Come On, Strangers!

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Oct 20, 2010 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Torres is actually doing better

His problem isn’t his timing. His problem is that he’s trying to pull everything and hit dingers.

That’s why Philly’s pitching him away away away.

They are trying to get him to roll over on that pitch.

That AB was an improvement.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

They may

But it’s totally fucked up his swing.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

It usually does.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I told him what I told my kids

1. Either take the outside pitch or hit it the other way. You are dead if you try to pull it.

2. Try to hit hard doubles. Let the home runs take care of themselves.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

you tell you daughter that when she plays football?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's a lie

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

they should make more commercials like this one

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes I prefer hunky starting pitchers.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

that

and i enjoy an awesome defensive move way more than a hr

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

you mean boog-like defensive moves

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

fyi, painguy

you get a lot of grief around here, but I really enjoy your perspective — don’t get run off

Just win

by The Duke on Oct 20, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

he does?

who gives oleary trouble?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now I'm getting grief from SF writers

SF M-N Piece on Torres

It’s flattering that he said I have worked with Pujols, but it’s not true.

This guy was there when Torres and I were talking hitting (Lincecum was there too). However, I know enough about Andres to know to not talk about mechanics with him in-season.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

you ruined him!!!!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do actually feel kind of bad

What I should have done, when Andres said he wanted to figure out how to get to 30 home runs, is push back on that.

I was smart enough to not talk mechanics with him, except for one set-up thing that shouldn’t have affected his swing.

I’ve got a couple of suggestions for the off-season, but deliberately didn’t bring them up at the time.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow the author is 6ly just pulling crap out of his ass
Perhaps it’s not a coincidence that Torres began his sharp downturn Aug. 20 in St. Louis, after a long dugout discussion with Chris O’Leary, his personal hitting coach who also works with Cardinals slugger Albert Pujols.

Torres struck out three times that night, acknowledging he had too many mechanical thoughts going through his head.

did you send him an email to make a correction? what an idiot
serious journalism i tell ya. i bet that’s their strauss. slap a unicorn on it and dgaf

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow, that guy sounds like a douche in this article

its like “hey i’m not saying it’s all this dude Chris O’Leary’s fault but… y’know… i’m just sayin’”

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

second that...

the echo chamber can get a little dull

Fire La Russa!

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, don't go Chris.

i think that scouting is a perspective that is ill-represented here on VEB.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dig painguy too.

He provides a unique perspective. The sprited debate over Lil’ Pagz got a little too spirited.

But… he did ruin Torres. And I can only assume he is responsible for Albert’s slight dip in production this year. He is an obvious charlatan, a no good swindler, out to ruin baseball players.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

How could he have ruined Torres?

before Torres came to him, he was on a path out of professional baseball. As for lil’ Pags, I’m sure his mechanics look fine, but that dude is never gonna be a good hitter. He could be a less terrible player, but even if he gets a lot better, he’s still not gonna be good. Sorry thepainguy.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

sarchasm

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, that was more addressed at the Giants fans criticizing Chris and that dumbass "journalist"

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

man freddy sanchez is one ugly ass mofo

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

well, I guess that separate game thread thing didn't go over so well

but look on the bright side — you got to see Mark DeRosa.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

what separate game thread

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

what mark derosa?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean this Mark DeRosa?

“Hello ladies. I am Mark From The Rose.”

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

'Of'

and yes. he was laughing with persons other than us.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

"de" can me from "from" as well.

And with a look like that, he obviously came from a rose.

Either works, but i forgot the meme was “of”, I apologize.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

*mean

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe you can figure out

how to distinguish DeRosa and de la Rosa

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flash Cards

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually "de" was probably meant to simply separate "Rosa"

as “Rosa” could be a first name as well. But “de” was also used to show that person was from a specific place, but that doesn’t make sense with “Rosa”

“de la” is used more as “of the” or “of”

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

so marky mark popped out of a flower?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

with that gaze. I can only assume yes.

Right out of a flower and right into some beautiful lady’s heart.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

she is pretty hot....

but we try not to post them on veb.
google is easy, though.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

holy moly!

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope I have done my good service for the day.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

of the Rose makes more sense for de la Rosa

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually, both if we're rocking it spanish style

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welp, time to go cross dress and play Ultimate frisbee

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 20, 2010 9:59 PM EDT reply actions  

A rule of thumb in Ultimate:

If the dude is wearing a skirt, he’s gonna kick your ass all game.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

These bullpens...

kind of suck.

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

cody ross looks like he has a vampire bat on his face

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

it is.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

must be cause night game wtf?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cody Cody Cody Cody

he is making the most of his 15 minutes.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

what's that make

an rbi every 2 minutes and a homerun every 3?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

well I hope you get your 15 minutes some day

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

in bed.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is a hell of a game

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Note to self

Never give Cody Ross ANYTHING down and in.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

i know better, but i'll rec it.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

IT WAS FAIR

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

CHALK!!!

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Fair.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

ROBBED!!!

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

90% of missed fair/foul calls occur...

in the post-season when there are six umpires.

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions  

oh yes

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yes

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of America...

will no doubt be fooled

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.

As long as Bob Brenly is not involved.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

BRING ON THE ROBOTS....

Giants just got Ludwicked, except there was a camera this time.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I gotta give the umps the benefit on that one.

That’s one I could argue either way all night.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

SUDDENLY

IRRELEVANT

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, yes it is.

Delightfully so!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

PANDAAAAAAAAAAAA

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

PANDA EXPRESS!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Kung fuuuuuuuuuuu

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

DRAMA!

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

EVEN BETTER !!

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Panda comes through!!!!!!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Sandoval is a REALLY nice guy

Super quiet and serious. Been through shit this year. Very happy for him.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Panda!

"/>

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions  

the panda is having some fun out there.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

...

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

that's it

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know i shouldnt but i fuckin love that !!

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

take a look at his splits

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Oct 21, 2010 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes he falls on his face

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT reply actions  

clearly, you broke him

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

that walk - it's on you!

for shame!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

no wonder no one has dies lately, look what death is doing

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Ah shit

He chased away, although that was a decent pitch.

But he needs to take away.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

the phaaaannttttom of the opera issss theerreeeeee insiddddde your miiindddd

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

someone should tranq you

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

i am

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok Giants as long as the Phillies are giving up runs

You could use a couple more.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

are those giant melanoma?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

they call Freddy "the mole " affectionately of course

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

please tell me the singular is melanomum

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't. that's Latin, and 'melanoma' is Greek.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn

but it’s just plain ol’ english, too, i think. medium, datum, etc

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you can start that meme, eventually you'll be correct.

good luck.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're going in the wrong direction ...

Melanoma is the singular, plural if it were real Greek or Latin would be melanomata.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Oct 20, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, yadi2

said “those melanoma” and he’s a dude who generally knows his grammar, so i was following his lead

so, is the plural “melanomata” or possibly “melanomae”?

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

ohhh you were going for number, not the root

the trouble is ‘melanoma’ is also the general name for the cancer, so I got my collective mixed up with my plural. or just didn’t hit the ‘s’.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's melanomata ...

… if Hippocrates is your diagnostician. If it’s Dr. John (or Dr. Jean, or Dr. Chandra) it’s melanomas.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Oct 20, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

dear giants could you maybe not blow this please

kthanks

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:28 PM EDT reply actions  

yes.

this kind of game is so much fun.

If it was the Cardinals I would be too nervous.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the Children!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:29 PM EDT reply actions  

dick bright

rofl

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

yep. my roommate and i had a hearty chuckle about that.

maturity.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

did you laugh, then gaze into each other's eyes and then make out?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

is this a fanfic?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you...watching me?

his eyes are the softest of blues.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

your roomie is jake westbrook?

no wonder you’re making out

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alright, some fiddlin'

Hey, that’s not Cotton Eyed Joe!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

what's with the fuckin god bless america every game?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

it's all a bit lol if you ask me

and the crowd’s reaction? how phony

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah they dont even play it at regular giants games do they ? i dont recall having to hear it

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think they just usually commercial break it out

i seem to recall it being played at games i’ve been too, but it’s been a while

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

it is played at the springfield cardinal games

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

9/11

Yeah, I know. It’s been 9 years.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's what I was thinking. that's when it started.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

they didn't play it before then?

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

they played TMOTTBG

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, tmottbg

how could i forget tmottbg

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

wtfitmottbg?

digaf?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

idk

and pn

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

think Harry Caray.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah, of course

they still play that during the 7th inning stretch

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are you, some kinda fuckin' commie?

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just don't understand american's need to profess their love for the country every fuckin chance they get

it’s a bit ridiculous

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

YOU GET OUT!!!!!!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

who's gonna beat joe strauss for you all then?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me

But we get a bonus if we flank him.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Oct 20, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's 'cause we're filthy cheaters

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

in bed.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

as if singing a damn song proves anything...

besides, it’s SF where no one “loves” America.

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

gasp

they ran out of love in San Francisco? I refuse to believe that.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

well at the time when it started it was very meaningful.

but like most things it has turned into just another tradition and people forget why they are doing it.

You know right after 911, everyone wanted to buy american flags and all the flag makers hadn’t sold flags in years and there were no flags to be founed.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

America. Fuck Yeah!

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gonna show my flag geek here

You don’t have to remove your caps for the playing of God Bless America, only for the playing of the SSB.

It’s fine if you want to, but they shouldn’t announce it.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

okay wth is ssb?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

with the bombs

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

lrn2amerka

only the national anthem of THE BEST COUNTRY EVAR

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not that great of an anthem

i know, ’cause i watched the futbol

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh shit i forgot the anthem actually had a title

i’m so gonna fail that citizenship test

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

the names of the Supreme Court justices are the hardest

and no… none of them are John Jay.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bushrod Washington was on the first supreme court.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

wtf do i need to know that?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you can keep straight discussions on CSPAN.

You watch lots of CSPAN right?

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bushrod Washington was George Washington's nephew.

They will ask that.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

unless they drastically changed the format, you have to know the names of officials from all three branches plus your own state, d-dee.

i ain’t joking.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

possibly they did change it

here’s the old one
here’s the new one

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh crap..what are the duties of congress??? thats a trick question.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

get rich and get re-elected

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

who is the head of your local government?

thats a crappy vague question.

this is a hard test even for a lawyer. i guarantee my BF would fail.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's vague because there are different forms of local government

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

right. why dont they just say, who is your mayor?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have a mayor.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

well you fail then!

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

because like I said

some local governments don’t have mayors

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

……

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

lern2localgovernment

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

i understand that. my point was just that the term "local government" is vague.

it could be your city, your county, your state, etc.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually, no

it’s the local branch of your government. as opposed to state and federal.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

your local government could be your city council though.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep.

that’s the question.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

so if i start this discussion during the test

they let me pass just so i get the hell out of their office, right?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

is the correct answer for IL

“whoever’s headed to jail next”?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

ba BOOM tssschhhh

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i would not pass the new one

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was using the old one, though.

it’s possible d-dee has it easier.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

2008

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

two years ago i think

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you have to know the words to the SSB

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

d-dee, if they ask you for authors of the Federalist papers

don’t start laughing
they wouldn’t get it

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know, i am afraid they'll either say something that will remind me of some inside joke

and i will start cracking up like a loony
or when they make me write something down, i’ll spell moar the veb way or sth

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

If spelling is a part of the test

Then I want to retest 300 million or so current citizens.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

yeah, you gotta write couple of sentences down

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

can you take your cell phone in with you?

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't cheat, the test is administered one on one by a uscis employee

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL USCIS doesn't know the answers....to ANYTHING

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

you do immi law too ihb?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

immigration law in the US is a convoluted mess.

If IHB does immigration law, i feel bad for him. it was the WORST law school class i had.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

her. and i do immigration pro bono work.

i currently have an asylum case.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I apologize.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha no worries.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

tell me, is it true most lawyers will tell a foreign partner to just get to the us, do a “spontaneous” wedding and file paperwork directly?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have no idea, honestly.

but my asylum client did just get married, and i am going through all the normal paperwork. it is expensive.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have done A LOT with marriage based visas

for quite a few ppl (all legal and bona fide marriages of course)
you’d be amazed what kind of “legal advice” people are given and how they get screwed by self-proclaimed immi lawyers that have no clue

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i would never give advice like that. but i mean, i've been working on this case for two years and i still don't know shit about immigration law, so....

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, asylum is tricky

did he marry an american?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

she did, yes.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

there should be no problem then

adjustment of status should be all you need to do?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

except she's technically an illegal immigrant.

i mean, she came here illegally, fleeing from her country. i am working to make her legal, but it adds complications.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

aaargh, i thought you said she had asylum papers

but i’ve seen quite a few overstayers and a couple illegals get a visa through AOS
i hope she squeezes through

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

me too.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh... pro bono...

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

your face is pro bono

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

How dare you

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

but he does all that good work in africa!

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Oct 21, 2010 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

you're an attorney, too, sheckie?

there are lots of us here.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

well... I graduated law school.

I might take the bar in february. but right now i have other plans.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

such as?

p.s. good for you – there are much better careers out there

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

well right now...

I’m trying to get into the FBI, but I have to wait until November to even get started in the LOOOONG hiring process (bureaucracy!).

I also recently took the FSOT as a bit of a backup plan.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

what is the FSOT?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Foreign Service Officers Test

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

i looked into that

but they wanted me to give up my birth-citizenship
boo

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

fuck that shit

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeh seriously

the constant lawyer talk just goes right through my head, don’t understand much of it

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 20, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You've looked at samples, right?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

not too close

i think it’s a 100 or sth possible questions and they ask you up to 10 you need to get 6 right
or sth

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they ask you this
What is one thing Benjamin Franklin is famous for?

Answer whore mongering. I’m curious if that’s an acceptable answer.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

not only is it acceptable, it's a direct pass

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

no text-a-friend, eh?

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think it's only fair she gets 3 life lines

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

i’ll check for bribe-an-employee

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where are you?

They’re maybe a little edgy right now in Arizona and adjoining territories. But Chicago should be better, especially if you volunteer to work the polls as a Democratic observer. That demonstrates an understanding of the American political system that trumps any ten questions.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Oct 20, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

ahahaha

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

star spangled banner.....Francis Scott Key.

You might need to know that one.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 20, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

An 18th century drinking song, Anacreon the Brave

… pretty good, too, if you take it up to tempo with lots of trombone on the bottom.

ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss

by alberich on Oct 20, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bastardo!

hahaha

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:34 PM EDT reply actions  

anyone else's Fox HD channel not coming in?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 10:35 PM EDT reply actions  

i dunno

i’m in like argentina or belgium or something watching on MLB.tv

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

You should consider yourself lucky...

these closeups of Wilson, Torres, Sanchez etc can scare the little ones…

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have to watch this game in...GASP....regular definition.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

BUSTAH!

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Busta Rhymes!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT reply actions  

put your bat where your eye can see?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hitting like a dungeon dragon

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

gimme some mo!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

ATCQ featuring Busta

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

alright buster!!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:38 PM EDT reply actions  

f'in yeah

That’s what Torres has to learn to do.

With his speed…

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it a good idea to do the big front leg pick up/stride...

before the ball even leaves the pitchers hand?

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

you think the pitcher should throw the ball before his stride?

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends

One thing Torres has changed — that may be partly my fault but also due to his trying to hit dingers — is that he’s gone to a leg lift like Soriano’s. He’s freakin obsessed with Soriano. I’ve told him to go back to the double tap he usually does and forget that Soriano shit.

In general, good hitters stride much later than people think.

Get your front down early — which Jaramillo is big on — is actually bad advice.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously not a problem

It’s key to timing and lets you adjust to the pitch better and more.

That’s why Big Mac f’d up Holliday when he changed his stride.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you do your leg lift at the high cock position...

…then you can pause at the top of the leg lift if you think you see an off speed pitch.

Holliday does this.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, Chris.

But, can I get a high-five from someone for High Cock Position? Come on, anybody?

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

o/

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Oct 21, 2010 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

gotta say

this tiered access time shit for registration that my school does is bullshit. sitting here watching seats for a class that i critically need to take next semester wither away to nothing and i can’t even register until tomorrow at 2 (and i have a damn test starting then!) when registration opened monday at like 8am

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

this is where you find out who's registered for that class and leave a dead horse in their bed

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've considered similar

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

if it's full by the time i can register tomorrow

you bet your ass, i’ll be communicating with the professor and asking the professor the courses prereq to talk to him and vouch that i’m serious about this shit, etc

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

down to seats....

le fu

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 21, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

5 seats

including numbers when indicating a quantity is important

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 21, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I've never really had a huge problem here

You pick classes based on how many credits you’ve taken at the school already… sure, I haven’t gotten into a few classes I wanted to take, but nothing crisis worthy

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

here comes batman

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:44 PM EDT reply actions  

this will ensure your place in history, Cody Ross

(for this week at least)

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Posey'd!!!

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

there wasn't any bad hop...

Posey screened him

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oops.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

It's Jimmy Rollins, Gold Glover

It had to be a bad hop.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah. Gravity wave.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

gimme some runz!!!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:47 PM EDT reply actions  

mike fontenot?

who didn’t the giants acquire at the deadline?

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Pedro Feliz

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pedro Feliz. :-(

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I detect a consensus forming here.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

SF already ditched Winn and Felix a long time ago remember ?

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh that is right, I had forgotten

they got the best Pete had to give

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

and it was just like you see now . bad

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok pablo

did you see the little kid with the panda suit on.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT reply actions  

No.

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

no,

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, just lousy.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

extremely lousy

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, not EXTREMELY. Just ... lousy.

4.15 ERA in that park is bad, but not disgraceful. Compare, for example, certain St. Louis starters who will go unnamed.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

its hard to watch him meltdown

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

not lately

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

meh, the rockies have a better top 6 than zito

Ubaldo
Chacin
De La Rosa
Hammels
Cook
Francis

I guess it’s questionable around cook francis though.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Oct 20, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lincecum Cain Sanchez Bumgarner >>>> Ubaldo Chacin De La Rosa Hammels

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

your pants are on fire

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

nein

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

HE!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not Chinese for no?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Either 无 or 不 would work

Your character means “is present”

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

no.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is an epic AB

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 10:51 PM EDT reply actions  

bullshit

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 10:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Panda giveth, Panda taketh away.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

the panda pooped

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

The beard! It does nothing!

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

dude looks like the Taliban

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:05 PM EDT reply actions  

when's brian wilson's beard going to pitch?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:06 PM EDT reply actions  

i wish he would go crazy and start experimenting with an Eephus or something

alienating the rest of the bullpen as he constructs the most glorious season for a closer ever.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I will always post this when Brian Wilson is involved

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

and rightfully so

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

this game is really exciting. i'm so glad i'm not a phillies fan. the anxiety would be outrageous at this point

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:07 PM EDT reply actions  

The book on Torres is clearly away away away

It’ll be interesting to see if he can make the adjustment.

Oh, and screwball!

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 11:11 PM EDT reply actions  

YOU BROKE HIM!!!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeeey brian wilson coming up

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Getting good vibrations?

Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork

by TBender on Oct 20, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

fear the beard montage

ahaha

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn right your bad!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah WTF?

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

he owes us a torres

and he also tried to brake pujols
where’s my pitchfork?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

is it 5-5? this standard definition (and my vision) is so bad i really can't tell

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:20 PM EDT reply actions  

yup 5-5

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:21 PM EDT reply actions  

and he was safe, but whatever

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah safe.

Boog would’ve

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

my dog always whines to go out 2 out in the 9th

ass

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Really, Oswalt?

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 11:25 PM EDT reply actions  

desperate times....

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 20, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wilson looks like Old Prospector

And Oswalt? What about a game 6?

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 20, 2010 11:26 PM EDT reply actions  

that would be assuming he's a wainwright

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

halladay will pitch next

then hamels in game 7, i guess

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh hei little roy

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:27 PM EDT reply actions  

somewhere TLR is shaking his head

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

it could go 15 innings!

and actually TLR is in STL

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Albert would have had that

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 11:30 PM EDT reply actions  

boog would have had that

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

why you...

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Howard face plant

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm no Phillies Phan, but

bravo to Manuel for using Oz there! That kind of creative thinking (use a guy out of the pen on his throw day) should happen more often — plus Oswalt is entitled to some post-season exposure, after what he’s had to endure for the last few years.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 11:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I guess, but

I’d wondered for years why that isn’t done more often. Nice to see a manager willing to take the chance, and take the risk of it blowing up in his face.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm kidding

Kind of.

Actually, very valid point.

by thepainguy on Oct 20, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the post season, every competent manager overmanages.

Joe Torre said once that the secret to managing in the post season is to treat every game as though it’s game 7 of the World Series. He should know; he’s been there enough.

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lest I be misunderstood

I don’t object to the final result …

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's a reason its called overmanaging

its not meant as a compliment; and as to your point, i’ll use the wikipedia source

Joe Torre says that overmanaging is smart.
Torre is authoritative.
Therefore, overmanaging is smart.

I could probably buy into it, but I don’t like the reasoning very much

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 20, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

so cody ross ends this one?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:31 PM EDT reply actions  

daaaaaamn

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

d'oh

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

alriiiiight

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:33 PM EDT reply actions  

oh, poor roy

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

oswalt sucks

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice job cutting that off before it got to the wall.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

i don't think he scores anyway

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, but their season is over if he does.

Had to go balls out there.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would've had to go...

through the wall, across the boardwalk, into the drink, down the continental shelf, and into the abyss for Huff to score. And even then I’m not sure he makes it.

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

squeeze !!! bochy !

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:35 PM EDT reply actions  

chin music

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:35 PM EDT reply actions  

oswalt losing his composure out there

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:35 PM EDT reply actions  

or his control

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

one is the cause of the other

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

that looked like hbp

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:36 PM EDT reply actions  

hit!!

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:36 PM EDT reply actions  

is the home plate umpire going on sonar?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions  

woo!

sucks that it had to be oswalt, though

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.

by StanTheManFan on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

and ballgame

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions  

WINNAR!

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions  

wow !!!

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions  

That'll do, Uribe. That'll do.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:38 PM EDT reply actions  

that is one scary pile of meat

some illegal wrestling moves too

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:38 PM EDT reply actions  

bat flip ala floppy

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:38 PM EDT reply actions  

see them prudently climbing over the fence

instead of leaping

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 PM EDT reply actions  

oh, wtf

i was totally thinking that was the series

there’s another game left

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 PM EDT reply actions  

What the hell, me too.

Where’d I get that?

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

the oswalt move makes way less sense now

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

No kidding.

If there’s no tomorrow, I can kind of see it.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

aaaaaahhhhh it's a gnome

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 PM EDT reply actions  

in bed

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

well, I guess it would have been weirder if the Braves made it to the WS

but this is pretty wild… now go Rangers!

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 PM EDT reply actions  

there's another game, yo

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

dang

going on vacation has my whole schedule messed up

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

how tiny is ken rosenthal?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:39 PM EDT reply actions  

oh what !!

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I said that out loud, didn't I

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

whoa...

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

posey has a voice like Carpenter

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Good lord...

this is the worst post-game interview since Rasmus hit that dinger

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 11:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I liked that interview

are you talking about the riff raff interview

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

he said rift raft thats when i joined VEB

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was after the fight in Cinncy

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colby = awesome

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

heey it's the beard

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:41 PM EDT reply actions  

the fashionably ripped shirt

or maybe the product of rage

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

can we murder someone over using the handegg music during playoff baseball?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:43 PM EDT reply actions  

timmeh pitching tomorrow?

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:43 PM EDT reply actions  

go gnats

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah !!

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

from last night

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh no...

Jeffrey Maier is back at the game!

Screw you, you freakin stats nerd

by guayzimi on Oct 20, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

BBTN is picking it up

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Kurkjian! on location

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Possibly the only guy there shorter than Rosenthal.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always thought Rosenthal was shorter

Kurkjian’s got a weedier build, tho

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh. Wikipedia sez Rosenthal is four feet tall.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I HATE Kurkjian!

HATE HATE HATE!

I may like him more than Joe Mor(on)gan, but I just don’t know.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 21, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because 95% percent of the time he says NOTHING worthwhile.

I really dislike the needless trivia being pointed to as relevant.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 21, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

you must really hate me then

j/k

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

now that YOU brought it up...

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Oct 21, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

All of baseball is needless trivia.

I like the odd ball stats he comes up with.

No worries, though. We all have our preferences.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 21, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

TBS has a way, way better post-game crew.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions  

fox has a way, way better game crew

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think McCarver negates most of Fox's advantage there.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

he does pick up on game details quicker, but for everything else….

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

the guys didn't appreciate the dumb and dumber comment

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 20, 2010 11:49 PM EDT reply actions  

for those of you who have watched every inning

how many times has Bruce Bochy double switched in the post season? I noticed he did it tonight.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:50 PM EDT reply actions  

i think every game mostly for Burrell or Fontenot

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

really? I guess I could go look at the box scores.

I’ve been watching TLR do it almost every game. and sometimes more than once a game. I wondered if all managers did it.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

well how often other managers did it.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

i dont know but i live in SF and watch Bochy double switch alot

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

wild screams ring out in the background.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:51 PM EDT reply actions  

man... other blogs are just super uptight

i look at them and they all seem so hostile. for anyone lurking on here who might be another team’s fan, feel free to post or whatever. it’s cool, we can even make some hot cocoa or like pop in a dvd.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

and then lock you in a room full of eels!

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

with ken rosenthal

"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.

by riftraftredbird on Oct 21, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

a hovercraft full of eels?

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

only if it's the future

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

my nipples explode with delight

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

well ok then

*walks away from this conversation.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Oct 21, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

drop your panties, i cannot wait till lunchtime

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. Exactly.

Lookout Landing is just terribly fucking uptight.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

CodyG sucks

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:23 AM EDT reply actions  

so....who's tried spice?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

wat

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

i dont know, just keeping the conversation going.

its either this or watch “ultimate fighter”

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is spice a euphemism for an illicit drug?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

its a perfectly legal drug actually

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh. Interesting.

I was just being snarky, but I was half-right

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

its some new thing, i guess its like smoking incense or something. but its legal and you get high

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah disclaimer: i dont smoke and although i have a couple times, i generally dont like it.

this spice thing is supposed to be mild. and legal. i dont know, just wondering if anyone had the scoop

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

nope, its much stronger

and (currently) legal.

but if you’re concerned with health, I would stick with good old harmless marijuana. not that spice is terrible for you, but there’s just not a lot of studies that show what it does.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

personally, i pretty much take any drug thats offered to me

which is probably the worst policy imaginable.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or best?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

but the alcoholism on this board is disturbing?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not claiming to be socially acceptable

i know i’m a fucked up person.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

and by the way

i’m not trying to seem like a drug addict here. I’ve never purchased anything other than weed in my life and I havent had an illegal drug of any kind in several months. just sayin’ i’m not exactly the “just say no” type.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

or the "can say no" type?

Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908

by TomCat009 on Oct 21, 2010 5:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

believe me

i disturb myself more than any other person in the universe.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

beer and good whisky, they just keep on giving!

"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not doing anything, just curious

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

is spice K2?

It’s illegal in Missouri now. And I think Kansas.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Oct 21, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

its a k-2

probably more dangerous than weed but a much stronger high

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

blame sbn and its outages

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

that was crazy. i was all, NO COMMENTING?!?!?!? waaaat?????????????!!!!!!!!!!

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

durrr

 Joe Blanton: “We didn’t really lose. We just ran out of innings.” #Phillies #SFGiants 4 minutes ago via web

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 1:29 AM EDT reply actions  

i didn't lose, i was just behind when time ran out?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

IS THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT TRUE OR FALSE?! EXPLAIN YOUR ANSWER

 “An ordinary least squares regression of Y onto X will be internally inconsistent if X is correlated with the error term”

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:32 AM EDT reply actions  

true

because i’m high and have never taken a stat class

Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter

by prophetjohn on Oct 21, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You would be correct

If X is correlated with the error term, that implies that you have omitted a relevant variable that has been captured by the error term

That will make your regressor X biased and inconsistent.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is much less fun than studying for my Beatles test

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

which album cover did NOT suggest that paul was dead?

how many beatles songs had more than 3 guitar cords?

who is the walrus?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Three

Twenty Nine

Mike Holmgren

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

your first answer is not an answer

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

the walrus was paul

lots of beatles songs have more than three chords.
nothing suggested paul was dead, people just overanalyze everything the beatles ever did.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

i call BS on your third answer.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

no, mike holmgren really is the walrus, at least on the west coast.

well, if you live in SF Bay Area or Seattle

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 21, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

i meant that nothing suggested paul was dead.

they put him in a coffin on an album cover. they knew what they were doing.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meet the Beatles

Suggested that Paul was alive.
Most of their songs had more than 3 chords.

Bonus question:
Why is George Brett better than the Beatles or Elvis?

Answer:
Because the Beatles and Elvis combined didn’t even come close to 3000 hits!

Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.

by Dave Pendleton on Oct 21, 2010 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Where did George first become interested in the sitar?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

after the whole maharishi thing

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nope. During one scene of "Help!" they're in a diner where sitarists play "A Hard Day's Night"

He got interested, started playing around with it, then got Ravi Shankar (Norah Jones’ dad) to teach him. His interest in this actually led him to the Maharishi

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

well

i had sex with your sister.

If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.

by purple_haze on Oct 21, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

In bed

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

wait

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

i need to travel for work more... i miss the late nite drunken veb

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 1:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Where you at?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I literally just made instant oatmeal and am drinking a Sam Adams White Ale

Get like me

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know Erik Manning tweeted about this like a week ago

But is anybody bored by Fangraphs/THT/BtB articles?

VEP, are there any other sources for really interesting research?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Oct 21, 2010 2:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Well I would suggest getting the THT Annual

That’s the best of the best by the best, and it’s all completely original research. In lieu of that, I would look at Jeremy Greenhouse at Baseball Analysts, and that’s about it. You could wait for my once-every-three-month post I guess.

by vivaelpujols on Oct 22, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

VEB late nite was pretty interesting

You can go back to your caves. The early morning shift is here.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 21, 2010 8:51 AM EDT reply actions  

might as well sit a spell

have some doughnuts. we can’t do a thing till the forklift gets here.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I had to go to bed early last night, assuming the Phillies were going to tie the series.

Heh, heh, heh.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 21, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was multitasking... couldn't really watch the game much

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

are you ever not on here?

I know that is poor grammar.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 21, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't give away all my secrets.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

You missed a great game.

Watching this series – well all of the giants games has been great. They seem to thrive on close 1-run games.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 21, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

FOX/MLB nightmare

SFG / TEX World Series.

Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: Rasmus 8, Jay/Craig 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, M Carpenter 5, Molina 2, T Greene 4, Ryan 6, pitcher

by gocards62 on Oct 21, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

so in other words, any series without the yankees

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 21, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

i am all for it

suck it selig!

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 21, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

interviews

Mo on the state of the Cardinals – 14 minutes
nothing really groundbreaking:

  • relationship with Tony now “reached a different level as far as how [Mo and TLR] communicate”
  • mutual option of contract is good
  • had succession plan in place if Tony wasn’t going to come back but never contacted anyone
  • October is a pain in the ass for a GM
  • Marty is gone because “if you’re all trying to pull in the same direction [..] there were some questions on that in terms of how he worked with the FO [..] creating an opportunity for someone in our MiL system”
  • Tony was supportive of kicking Marty out
  • 2010 was frustrating, injuries, timing of injuries – losing Lohse and Penny in a week, we didn’t have depth on the pitching side
  • 2011 should make sure we have depth in certain spots
  • no changes as of yesterday on the coaching staff side, hopefully will know by the weekend or early part of next week
  • Mac is mulling it over
  • unlikely anyone will be unsatisfied with contract but possible
  • Westy’s presence was a success, we’d pursue it but lot of things that want to look at
  • need better bats at the bottom part of lineup
  • need to add offense – we don’t know where and from where, might have to be a trade because FA market isn’t exactly awesome
  • Jay got off really hot, Craig started really crappy but left a lasting impression of how well he played towards the end – Tony and Mo believe given opportunity to play every day, can help team win
  • Descalso did great even though 3rd isn’t his natural position
  • will assess Freeze month by month, if in December there’s any doubt of his progressing nicely, we won’t gamble
  • Boog “is another young man tale of two cities”, 2009 vs 2010, he’s got talent but don’t know if we’ll give him the job – someone more consistent in the lineup might make more sense
  • team won’t be vastly different in 2011, can’t change core but also can’t change all four (2b, ss, 3b, rf) but team might have a “different energy”
  • Mo won’t hang with Snooky on the Jersey shore this offseason

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 21, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

a different level? second base?

/juvenile

nice job, d-dee

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I noticed that different level but was not thinking china and flatware

More along the lines that Mo has learned his place.

All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz

by spfldbird on Oct 21, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

interview 2

TLR on return 14 minutes
jeans shirt with a us flag star – stylish.. says arf on it so i’ll let it by

  • “you control what you think”
  • put off thinking about personal situation after the season was determined
  • “when you manage it’s a very personal year to year thing, i don’t care what the contract says”
  • tlr’s family goes on the internet and reads the drama – he doesn’t want them to
  • as a fan you should want a manager that the FO really wants and the players want and a manager who still gets fired up about doing the job
  • had offer from ownership before he left, he then first checked with the players who said they wanted him to be back, his gut told him he should come back so here he is
  • lots of bla bla on motivation
  • Tony is fired up about next season
  • his wife is awesome
  • friends and family follow what is read and said about him but he doesn’t always want to hear it
  • you always work to keep your message fresh, especially when you’ve been around for a while, the challenge is to say the same thing different ways, don’t compromise the core of how you go about it
  • “we won’t 52 games at home [..] be fair to our team, we didn’t stink as a team, we had periods of play that wasn’t good or losses to losing teams, we gotta figure out that was about”
  • you gotta be careful overreacting on the negative side or pretty soon you’re gonna cure problems that really weren’t problems"
  • Mo’s first full season 2008 was “a rude awakening”, relationship with Mo has now improved
  • “there’s an ownership level and there’s a FO level and then there’s those of us in uniform – ML, MiL, we have bosses, I understood the issues coming from the top about our coaching staff, about Marty [..] I feel a change had to be made [..] he is an excellent baseball man and a contributor [..] in Marty’s case they felt they wanted to make a change and I can understand where they’re coming from [..] he’s gonna be missed, very close to our bullpen and they’re gonna have an adjustment to make”
  • Cat: “reporters, there’s one guy with a camera and a microphone who asks a question that ruffles your feathers, how are you gonna handle that?”
       TLT: “that’s my goal [..] i’m gonna be lovable to the media, i’m gonna say hey, that’s a great question and i love you for it man and this is why this answer is gonna sound kinda inconsistent with that cause i don’t wanna tell you what a stupid clueless..[..] i am bothered and i want our fans to know this [..] some of the things that i get accused of to the extent they are true would really upset and disappoint [my parents] – being rude, condescending, that stuff [..] if we would do these things an hour aster the game rather than 10 minutes it’d be easier [..] but now that i’m gonna have this love everybody button that i push since the game is over and we get beat – hey what’s the big deal man [..] let’s all hug each other and talk about how we stunk and every decision i made was wrong [..] that’s my goal, i’m gonna be lovable” <- i give this 2 losses before he comes back to normal

Tony interviews are always funny – angry Tony, sarcastic Tony, good mood Tony – always entertaining

..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter

by d-dee on Oct 21, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If any of his family happens to read this, please pass this along......

STOP PLAYING AARON FUCKING MILES!!!!!

That is all.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

they must love that we keep c/ping the rabbit costumes

hopefully they are planning another production

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

my $.02

jay is gone this offseason. we get a new starting 2b. schu/craig platoon in RF. descalso & greene on the bench.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

What do you mean by

competent?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

compote

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Surprise!

Tony Cruz hits two homers, plays first base in AFL.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 21, 2010 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

[reads subject line] I see what you did there.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could write headlines for the P-D.

But then, so could any random kindergartener.

"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.

by The Continental on Oct 21, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

barcode

is there some sort of helmet-theft ring in AZ?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Danup’s got a post up.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2010 11:06 AM EDT reply actions  

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