Tony La Russa has been managing the St. Louis Cardinals since Carlos Martinez was four
by DanUpBaby on Oct 19, 2010 6:01 AM EDT
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PrintTony La Russa is back for year sixteen, which means that this is more or less going to be the team we were excited about last March. I'm in favor of this move, but I know a lot of people aren't, and I understand that position. My own, titled "Because somebody has to be the manager", is informed by the following fake bullet points:
1. I think most of what we ascribe to Tony La Russa as his own particular foibles are the foibles of nearly every manager in baseball. I think there's an instructive quote from Joe Posnanski's most recent blog entry about Ron Gardenhire, on whom Poz has long had an immense manager-crush:
... the anti-Gardy crowd was overpowering. They bludgeoned me with stories of crazy lineup moves and bizarre bullpen maneuvers and folksy Gardy quotes that suggested he was at least Cardinal in the Roman Church of Grit.
I think you'll find those same faults applied to almost every manager some fanbase cares about enough to disagree on. For instance, Joe Maddon, the official manager of the internet—there's a joemaddonsucks.com, although it is devoted mainly to claims that he is both too sabermetric and, in his avowal of pitching and defense, presumably too traditional.
2. I think Tony La Russa's own flaws are played up too much, because they're easy to write about. Of course, this is my fault as much as it is anybody else's. It's easy to talk about when the Cardinals are playing somebody who should not be playing baseball; it's difficult to say when somebody who should not be playing baseball is playing over his head and it's thanks to some brilliant managerial trick or hunch.
In 2009 the Cardinals got an adequate season at second base out of a fourth outfielder; in 2008 they got one out of Aaron Miles, who most certainly did not get them one in 2010. It's easy to say that the 2010 situation is La Russa's fault, because Aaron Miles is his guy and Tyler Greene could be playing in 2010; it's difficult to say whether Schumaker or 08-Miles would have succeeded elsewhere.
3. I think this is a team that is still well-served by continuity.
The core remains Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday, Adam Wainwright, and Chris Carpenter—all veterans, all presumably unhindered by La Russa's always-on intensity. And for all the complaints in 2010, Aaron Miles was the only clearly La Russian gamble that cost the team relative to its other options; the major sub-replacement-level dent in the Cardinals' erstwhile depth was Felipe Lopez, whose disastrous cliff-diving led to an admittedly inexplicable Pedro Feliz acquisition.
Elsewhere—Colby Rasmus was the source of a lot of drama but also had an OPS+ of 132 in 144 games. Randy Winn saw his playing time disappear almost entirely after Jon Jay played over his head and acted thereafter as the fifth outfieder. Allen Craig disappeared to AAA ostensibly to get at-bats, something we might believe if Joe Maddon said it; hit the stuffing out of the ball in AAA; and, returned to action in September, was played frequently. I don't know how he did it, but Jeff Suppan had an ERA of 3.84 over his 70 innings.
What killed the Cardinals last season was not the La Russa moves we can easily identify and criticize—it was widespread underperformance from Felipe Lopez, Brendan Ryan, Skip Schumaker, Yadier Molina. That might be Tony La Russa's fault, too, but La Russa as a manager who doesn't get the most (or in the case of Felipe Lopez even a little) out of his players doesn't jibe with my own observations and his propensity for choosing players who appear less talented over players who are, well, better.
I can't make a really strong argument for Tony La Russa because I don't know enough about managerial analysis to hold a strong position in either direction. But I think his culpability for 2010 is naturally overstated from the traditional sabermetric position: He was bad at the few things we could prove he influenced, but their total value was small, and his position compared to a replacement manager not especially retrogressive.
I don't think he'll put that blurb on his business card, but I'm more willing to defer to a manager's reputation than, say, a right fielder's. Tony La Russa's is still excellent, and it would take either an incredibly dim view of managerial value (at which point I'm not sure it matters whether he's around or not) or an incredibly bright view of the teams he's had in his career to take nothing positive from his career record.
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Tough 2011
unless they make some changes. They really seem to be missing an X factor which is a Vince Coleman type of top of the lineup guy. If they don’t start getting someone at the top of the lineup who can get on-base, I suspect we wil be treated to the same fits and starts.
I’m also worried that Carp will be measurably worse and Waino has arm problems but if they are serious about signing Westbrook and Lohse reverts to even an average pitcher in 2011 then I feel better about rotation. I’d stil like to see Suppan back for 10-15 spot starts/replacement pitcher in case of injury.
No closer which needs to be resolved and if the top of the lineup hitter can be a 2B, then even better.
Ryan is the only guy I am not worried about. I expect breakout season from him with a season to strengthen his wrist
Just win
I will blame you when suppan is back and has an 8era over 15starts. I will then be coming for your head.
by CodyG on Oct 19, 2010 10:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you don't even have a sword
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
huh...
i thought this was Cody.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
can someone take a head with that?
and more importantly, who armed Cody
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
hahahahahahaha
more like this.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 19, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The last thing this team needs is Vince Coleman at the top of the lineup.
He of the .326 OBP while in a Cardinal uniform.
This club doesn’t need speed at the top of the lineup as much as it needs guys who get on base at a high rate. The perfect top of lineup players for this club? Mid-80’s Wade Boggs and Rickey Henderson. Superb defense at 3B and LF and OBP’s north of .400. That would put 5 straight .375+ OBP’s at the top of the lineup. We’d wear out starting pitchers by making them throw strikes and work with men on base all the time. You know, kinda like the Yankees do unless they’re playing Texas in the playoffs.
Hell, Tommy Herr (Career .347 OBP) leading off would be better than Vince Coleman. As would Fernando Vina, David Eckstein (2006 variety), or even mid-career Ozzie, who was above .360 OBP for a few years in his prime to go along with his stellar defense.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That's why I'd try Freeze at leadoff.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
i would be amenable to at least trying this out for a bit.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I pray for his ankles daily
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Coleman did have some years with a .350 to .360ish OBP, but your point still stands.
Some years he was not all that great at getting on base, which is the main thing one should ask of a lead off guy (well, it’s the first thing you should ask of any hitter, make fewer outs, but I think you get my drift).
Skip at his best is a tolerable lead off guy because he got on base at an above-average rate. I hated seeing the occasional dalliances with Ryan batting first. Ugh.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
If Mark Ellis can mirror his road numbers overall
he would be the perfect addition 3 of the last six years his road OBP is over .380 and over .350 5 of the last six years on the road. Two of the top 5 hitters in the NL (Carlos Gonzalez, and Lego) had severely depressed numbers playing in Oakland and I believe Ellis could break out to the tune of 300/370/450 slash line moving to STL
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Yeah, I wouldn't mind having him.
How old is Ellis now?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
33 but coming off of a .291/.358/.381 slash line
with a 12.7 UZR/150 at second
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Vince Coleman's abilities have been horribly overrated
He was a low-OBP guy who also happened to run well. Juan Pierre does that but I don’t want anyone like that anywhere near the top of this order b/c he’d be taking a lot of right hand turns to the first base dugout after recording a gazillion outs.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 19, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
FWIW,
Coleman was a marginally better lead-off man in the mid-80s than his clone would be now, because of the difference in run-scoring environments.
Actually, that may be arguable, now that I think of it. The more accurate statement would be that Coleman was a better hitter in 1985 than he would be today, as measured relative to the league average hitter:
2010: 255/324/399 R/G: 4.33
1985: 252/319/374 R/G: 4.07
League OBP and R/G exploded shortly after Coleman’s banner rookie year of 1985. In fact, in 1987, the NL’s run-scoring environment was greater than in this year of the pitcher:
1987: 261/328/404 R/G: 4.52
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
my favorite vince coleman year
is 1986. Here are his component numbers from Baseball-Reference: -26 batting runs; +4 fielding runs; +17 baserunning. The most exciting one win player of all time.
I think it's really, really hard to measure
The impact that a great baserunner like that has on the game though. It puts a lot of pressure on the defense and the pitcher, which probably enhances the run scoring ability of the offensive team whenever that guy is on base, due to the increased chances for people being out of position or the pitcher making a mistake.
Although, it’s even better if you’re Tim Raines and you succeed at an 85% clip while hitting home runs and getting on base 38% of the time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
If memory serves. . .
BP looked at your contention regarding baserunners putting pressure on the defense, and came back with inconclusive results at best.
Good luck finding anything in the archive on that site anymore, of course. It’s the Aaron Miles of sabremetric websotes right now.
I tend to agree with you about the effect of baserunning, and think that it’s about time for a cycle of base stealers. To coutneract the Cardinals and the other rabbit teams of the 80s, good armed catchers were all the rage. That has now come full circle, IMHO.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They did...and the results were inconclusive
And no, I can’t find the damn thing either.
I just think it’s really hard to measure statistically in any form, which is the whole problem with it anecdotally — you really don’t have any idea what kind of effect it has, so it’s impossible to tell whether it’s positive or negative.
I just know that at the lower levels (read: high school & Legion ball) that it puts a lot of pressure on the defense and pitchers which ends up causing a lot of fat pitches and defenders out of position.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Goshdarn it, 4s. . .
we agree on something.
I’m speechless.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
it's all about the stolen bases, baby
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions
really I dont think we need a super fast base stealer
as much as we need our guys to run the bases better
that to me would make more of a difference, we have guys like Skip and Ryan who while fast dont use it on the bases to take the extra base ect.
but what the heck do I know
by jealousblues on Oct 19, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
This is kind of a weak post Danup
You can’t cite “LaRussa gets the most out of his players” with regards to Miles and Schumaker, and then assuage his blame in the massive underperforming of Schumaker, Ryan, Lopez and Molina. The Cardinals as a whole underperformed their preseason projections by 5-7 games. I don’t think you can judge a manager based on that, but if you are, you have to be consistent at the very least.
Point 1 is a given. All managers have their little idiosyncrasies that are most likely batshit insane. I would reckon that all managers are terrible tacticians and you couldn’t really argue that LaRussa is worse than the rest. Those are minor in the scope of things because there is really only so much proper bullpen management or lineup construction can do for you.
The biggest problems with LaRussa are much more disturbing and apparently atypically. He appears to have a large amount of control over who makes the roster and which players are acquired by the team. I refuse to believe that Mo, on his own free will, would acquire the corps of the already terrible Aaron Miles, put him on the roster and allow Tony to give him 150 PA over a half season. There is no way such an idiot could ever rise to the GM’s position. The fact that Tony gave him so many plate appearances (not to mention the history between the two) strongly suggest LaRussa had a large role in the move. And Miles somehow lucked into a replacement level performance, so the insanity of him getting significant playing time on a contender’s roster was not quite understood by people. History shows us that Tony has no fucking idea how to evaluate players, and with an increasingly pussyfooted GM in Mozeliak, Tony will have more control over who is on the roster.
And that’s mild compared to his most serious transgression – openly and publicly feuding with the teams 24 year old, cost controlled and amazing centerfielder. By all accounts, Rasmus is a quiet guy who will not stir up shit and simply likes to do his job. If you are a typical manager, this is the kind of guy you simply leave alone, especially when that player is putting up a .950 OPS in the first half. I mean do you people simply not realize the insanity of Rasmus requesting a trade because he did not get along with Tony? It’s not like Rasmus is a clubhouse cancer in the slightest.
Tony, simply put, has far more an impact than any other manager in baseball because of his reputation and his personality allowing him to have influence on both players and roster moves. Over the past couple of years he has gotten into multiple feuds with star players – forcing one of them to be traded, and another to request it – and his playing time allocations seem to be literally insane (seriously, which other organization would allow 500 at bats to go to Miles, Stavinoha and Feliz on a contending team?).
If the strongest argument you can make for LaRussa’s continued return is his intense personality probably won’t effect the perennial MVP/Cy Young candidates in Pujols, Wainwright, Carpenter, and Holliday, well that’s just weak sauce. Gdm could do that.
I won’t argue that LaRussa hasn’t had a good career, but I think over the past could of years and going forward, he is a massive detriment to this team.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 19, 2010 7:00 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
....looks around....
Begins slow clap. Well said rebuttal.
by TheWagonMakerCometh on Oct 19, 2010 7:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
so the biggest problem with TLR
The biggest problems with LaRussa are much more disturbing and apparently atypically. He appears to have a large amount of control over who makes the roster and which players are acquired by the team. I refuse to believe that Mo, on his own free will, would acquire the corps of the already terrible Aaron Miles, put him on the roster and allow Tony to give him 150 PA over a half season
Is Mo’s inability to do his job?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
by Evilfrog on Oct 19, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
from what i gathered....
TLR’s biggest problem is that he has more impact than any other manager in baseball. He has earned the ability to have a larger impact, but I think vivaelpujols is saying it’s starting to become a problem. Baseball teams have a GM for a reason. They have a separate Manager and a separate hitting coach for a reason. They have a head of scouting. When you start trying to have one man do EVERYTHING, and not worrying about what he should be worrying about (managing…especially when you have a guy like TLR that analyses stuff to the inth degree), you have problems.
One guy can’t do all of it…it’ll make him insane. Insane enough to give 500 ABs to Miles, Feliz, and Stavinoha. Just sayin…
Tony loves control...he loves the power to be able to make decisions....
i get that….but sometimes…what’s the saying..“Too much of a good thing, isn’t a good thing”. I think that could be applied to Tony, but he is so deep into it, he can’t even see how it’s a problem.
Biggest problem with VEB
Is people excusing Mo of all responsibility for Roster moves they don’t like and laying the blame solely on Tony.
First, The combination of Feliz, Miles, and Stavinoha had 402 PAs. Not 500 ABs.
Second, Stavinoha was the fifth starter no matter who else was on the roster. When Tony had Craig, Craig started over Stavinoha, when Tony had Jay, Jay started over Stavinoha, when Tony had Winn, Winn started over Stavinoha. There is nothing to indicate that Tony preferred Stavinoha over any of the other outfielders we have. It baffles me why people think that Tony is the sole reason Stavinoha was on the roster when he had time and time again showed that he preferred other players.
Third, while I don’t doubt that Tony wanted Mo to get him a 3rd baseman who was capable of playing thirdbase. (Drunk with power obviously.) Feliz was the answer that Mo came up with. Why are we blaming that on Tony?
This argument is silly. If you are saying Tony’s biggest problem is that Mo is a doormat, get a new GM who isn’t a doormat.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
by Evilfrog on Oct 19, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
at which point La Russa will leave.
lol.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
then you kill two birds with one stone. You have a GM with Balls and no Tony.
However; If Tony leaves I’m of the opinion we will still have roster moves like this because they are not Tony’s fault.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
the thing is, I disagree with just averaging out how many times people got starts
it’s when they got starts, when they were substituted in, what the situation was (sorry, sbn makes it easy to bold).
when there are at least ten games where the choice was not only wrong but spectacularly wrong, complete with bad results, you can’t say that the manager put the team in a position to win. and that’s his job.
we’re paying him $5 million to do this? we lose the NL Central by five games? really? I don’t care how he does it. it’s not about eccentricities. it’s about the basics of the job description — putting the team in a position to win. even in their bad position, even with the way Mo put the team together, it’s still the NL Central. they were beating good teams and folding against the Astros and Pirates. if they’re beating good teams, that means there’s enough tools in the toolbox to get something done. it’s not a good toolbox — that is Mo’s responsibility.
but is Tony fulfilling his job description? it really doesn’t look that way.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
These here are are valid reason's to complain about TLR's managing job
it’s when they got starts, when they were substituted in, what the situation was
I disagree with the when they got starts part. For the most part Stavinoha’s starts were limited to the beginning of the year and when Colby and Ludwick was down. I do not believe that Stavinoha would have received significantly less starts if another Manager was managing.
However; I would really like to see less double-switches that take out your best defensive OFers/Infielders. (I might point out though, that he was constant in who he pulled, which was normally the OF’er who made the last out.)
These are valid reasons to make a change, but they are not what most people on VEB echo when calling for Tony’s head. Also, some of the moves Tony makes are moves that a lot of manager’s will make anyway. So don’t get your hopes up that the next Manager will fix these mistakes.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
so your beef is with VEB?
just so’s I know. so I can go into hiding.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
VEB
= Viva El Birdos. As in this site. I don’t have a beef with this site. I love it. But when it comes to Tony most people here complain the loudest about him having a team with Suppan, Stavinoha, Miles, and McDougal on it. Which is more a Mo thing and not a Tony thing.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
well, good luck engaging with most people
if they’re here. I have to say, I somehow doubt this ‘most people’ will have their mind changed.
I have to say, constantly correcting people who aren’t even saying that only serves to deflect from the main issue.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
This is wrong.
TLR has an outsized influence on roster make-up. And DeWitt allows him to have it. There is not a chain of command with Mo at the top, reporting to the owner. TLR has a close relationship to DeWitt and that makes the roster situation cloudy at best. I think that DeWitt should enforce a chain of command ending with the GM, but won’t do so until after TLR leaves.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yes the chain of Command should end in Mo
and it is DeWitts fault if it doesn’t. But I don’t believe that Mo is powerless. He just signed a three year deal and fired Marty Mason. And he has in the past traded TLR’s grandson away.
Mo is not powerless. And he needs to exert his power if TLR has too big of a share of roster make-up.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I think he was going for godson.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That's what I thought
But with this organization’s predilection to nepotism, I wouldn’t have been that surprised.
Yeah, I'm not TLR's hugest fan or anything
But I also think it is MO’s job to flex a little more muscle, probably. I have no idea how much DeWitt enables La Russa, but that could be a big factor too. It would make it harder for MO to lay down the law if DeWitt is on Tony’s side.
The above comment possibly contains complete speculation.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You are making an assumption. . .
that “Suppan, Stavinhoa, Miles, and MacDougal. . . is more of a Mo thing and not a Tony thing”
Granted, those taking the oposite tack are making the opposite assumption, but they are both assumptions.
And there is more evidence on their side of the ledger than there is on your side of the ledger, IMHO.
That being said, I am ambivalent on whether TLR should stay or go for many of the reasons that you give. TLR didn’t cause Schu and Molina to have down years and Lohse to take a line drive off of the forearm and Freese to not drink his milk as a kid, and if all of those things hadn’t happened, we’d all probably be still griping about why the Cards got swept by the Phillies in the NLDS.
TLR’s Pros: Offensive game planning for big games, Preparation, Dave Duncan, most players want to play for him
TLR’s Cons: Thinking and wanting to show that he is smarter than you when it comes to making in-game tactical decisions, September, affinity for GRIT, picks fights
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
"You are making an assumption. . ."
Yes I am. Combining that with the fact that it’s Mo Job to make the roster. Mo has said he sets the roster.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Hearsay
Not admissable.
In all seriousness, what else is Mo going to say? Yeah, I’m a paper tiger. When TLR jumps, I say how high.
Seriously, TLR is a HOF manager, Mo is a guy in his third year on the job who wasn’t even the organization’s first choice for the job. The most creible evidence is that TLR has way more influence in personnel decisions than any other manager in baseball. Forcing the Rolen trade at the Winter Meeting, indicating to the press that Colby had requested a trade when Colby and Mo had indicated otherwise, not using Brian Anderson. . . I could go on and on.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
hearsay?
It’s a direct quote. Hearsay is when we connect the dots of Mo going out and signing MacDougal was because Tony made a power play.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Um, no. . .
hearsay (at least in the legal, evidentiary sense, which is the reference I was making) is asserting someone’s statement for the truth of the matter asserted.
Objection sustained.
Connecting the dots of Mo signing MacDougal thanks to a TLR power play would be the application of circumstantial evidence. Granted, the circumstantial evidence is not particularly compelling in some cases.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
This argument makes sense.
And it’s arguments like this that I can understand. I really just don’t know who would do a better job.
TLR is like our 66 year-old wife. He used to look good. But after years of looking at his dour scowl, sagging skin, living with all those goddamn pets, his antisocial quirks, we’ve had enough. Hell, even his smile creeps us out now. 16 years is a long time.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Oct 19, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
like I said
co-dependence.
personally, I would rather we were co-dependent with Dave Duncan.
I will say, though, the reverse is true. if Tony had won even a half dozen of those close-and-winnable games, I wouldn’t say he was losing his touch. I’d probably say: fix the September swoon and he’ll be okay.
and yeah, I say Tony because it is the players he puts on the field. I know there are extenuating circumstances, but neither can I possibly believe that there were these circumstances every single time. there was nothing wrong with the players’ preparations, and outside of the (overblown) Colby issue, only Lopez seemed to veer way off course. yeah, they were panicking at the plate.
then I think — whose job is it to stop the offense from panicking? oh yeah. it’s the manager’s job. and for 90% of the year, he was ineffective at this.
to rip out a random (and non-representative) anecdote, Brendan Ryan should not be asking Albert Pujols if it’s time to be worried yet. the manager should leave no doubt in his team that it’s not time to panic. I really think that — while effective — TLR’s reliance on veterans to do his job for him is irresponsible.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I can understand arguments about his on-field management.
He deserves blame for his mistakes, even if all managers make them. It’s part of their job.
He did seem to lose the team this year. Whether it’s true, it seemed that way. It was unsettling to say the least.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
The crux of the biscuit...
“…we lose the NL Central by five games? … even in their bad position, even with the way Mo put the team together, it’s still the NL Central. they were beating good teams and folding against the Astros and Pirates. if they’re beating good teams, that means there’s enough tools in the toolbox to get something done. "
Tony has to take some blame for the team underperforming against inferior competition. Is it enough to lose his job over? Given the options to replace him, probably not.
I want more... More baaaacon!
Jim Gaffigan
by blueinmemphis on Oct 19, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I was told the crux of the biscuit
is the apostrophe. Seriously though, I agree w/ you about replacement options (or the lack thereof).
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Oct 19, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
this hits the nail on the head
we can speculate all we want about whether tony or mo has “control” over the roster, and i admit that i have gone back and forth on this issue. i also believed for a long time this season that Tony WAS playing the better player when that better player was available to him. but then, in the last 6-8 weeks of the season, things started to change.
look, almost every team has its macdougals, stavinohas, and felizes. if tony is out of options at 3rd, and he has to play feliz, i get that. he doesn’t have to bat him 5th. if the BP is taxed and tony has to thrown macdougal out there, i get that. but he doesn’t have to let macdougal continue pitching two more innings after blowing the lead in a close and important game. these are the differences i think yadi2 is talking about.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Oct 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there it is
I should have known I needed a lawyer
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
MacDougal lost only one lead
I agree he sucks but in his 17 appearances only once did he enter with a lead and leave with the Cards trailing (Aug 2nd). After that, he never entered a game where the Cards were down less than three runs or leading by less than eight.
And Feliz never should have batted fifth for those three games.
i did some additional research
between august 20 (when we were 4.5 games back) and september 4 (when we were 8 games back and definitively out of it), these are the people who batted 5th:
Feliz
Jay
Lopez
Lopez
Lopez
Jay
Winn
Lopez
Feliz
Feliz
Molina
Jay
Rasmus
Stavinoha
That two-week stretch was the most critical two-week stretch of the season and we blew it. I understand that Rasmus was unavailable for some of that time. But that is a TERRIBLE collection of guys batting 5th. It was that time period that I lost faith in TLR. and you can point to roster construction all you want, but the fact of the matter is, TLR, and only TLR, makes the lineups.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Sure, TLR makes the lineups.
But he can only play the guys Mo gives him. It’s not like there’s some dynamic where Mo approaches Tony about what his needs are and how he feels they should be met. At some point, Tony just has to man up and do his job and not play the crap that Mo gives him.
(I’ll now sit back and see how many heads explode at the reversal here. :-) )
Why did you leave off Craig's starts?
The Cards were tied for first on 8/14, the day Colby injured his leg. Craig was batting fifth for the first three losses of the slide. Craig had 8 starts early in the slide and had as much difficulty as the rest of the team. (.188/.278/.344/.622 split)
Colby should have been DL’d instead of becoming a sparingly used PH. Bringing up Mather would have allowed for another CF option and kept Stavinoha in the PH role.
easy to say Colby should have been DL'd
but should you really DL a guy if you expect him to be back in two or three days?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
oh i didnt do that on purpose, i just started with the first game that feliz batted 5th because i was curious if we were still "in" the race at that point.
and we were. and then we weren’t.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I want to know who made this decision
07/28/10
St. Louis Cardinals purchased RHP Mike MacDougal from Memphis Redbirds.
St. Louis Cardinals optioned RHP Fernando Salas to Memphis Redbirds.
The arguement over how much sway TLR has over Mo
…isn’t one that I think any of us are in the know to actually answer, so I’m pretty comfortable to start at the assumptions of job description. I also think Tony does get an unfair rap over not playing younger players. That was, after all, what got us a ring on ’06 (a rookie closer for a control freak manger? really?) and is pretty much the MO of the organization at this point, and TLR keeps coming back for it.
But, there are managerial piffles that are trifling: the double switches, the over dependence on SSS match ups which most often don’t often play out, but are pointed to as managerial genius when they do, the substitutions that don’t seem to make sense, and the way too many PAs for players who don’t deserve them (whether or not it’s his fault or Mo’s they are on the roster in the first place). But I can’t tell you in aggregate how many wins bench mismanagement (in hopes of, ironically, keeping the bench “fresh”) cost the cards over the year, but I’d reckon it’s probable fewer than what my memory would indicate.
And I can’t really tell you whether TLR creates over performance or under performance in his players … although I think you can make the case that he did wear out Molina this year. I’d really like to see what Molina’s wOBA looked like for a couple starts after a day off compared to the rest of the season. This is one thing in 2010 that really bugged me.
…But what really, really drives me crazy is how he will call out or get in tiffs with players in a public way. It seems like he should know better. It seems like he does know better. But he’s done it, and historically it’s had some negative impact.
And now, I must get back to playing Fallout New Vegas. Here’s hoping for no glitches.
let's go bitches!
by Oedipa Maas on Oct 19, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
younger players
playing them out of position is a bigger trend than I first thought. also something else than shouldn’t be averaged out.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
but mostly
those younger players playing out of position happens later in the season so they can evaluate ABs in situations were they otherwise wouldn’t get major lease ABs.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I think Tony's power in the organization is shown by Mason's firing
All the following is supposition but it makes sense to me (take that for what it is worth) given how long Tony’s decision to return took. Near the end of the season, all we heard was that the FO thought Tony’s coaching staff needed to be refreshed with younger blood. My guess is that is what Mo wanted to be done as a condition of Tony returning. Tony probably refused and said he wouldn’t return without all his coaches. Given this, DeWitt decided he wasn’t willing to let Tony walk, so all parties “compromised” by firing Marty Mason, a coach who didn’t sit in the dugout and one who is not generally considered to be a Tony coach. It all reflects more disassociation between DeWitt, Mo, and Tony. Heaven help us.
i see that as a good thing
Mo and Tony need to be separate. They need to disagree on stuff.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
you miss the point, frog
it’s not that Tony and Mo need to be separate and disagree on stuff – any two powerful people will have disagreements – it’s where the power is in the organization – to me, Mason’s firing and the non-firing of anyone else, indicates that it isn’t with Mo – it’s just one more indication that Tony wants to go in one direction and Mo in another – at the moment, I think the higher powers (De Witt) have decided to back Tony – as an aside, it makes it very clear why few people outside the organization were truly interested in the GM job when Jocketty was fired a few years ago
I'm confused
are you suggesting it was Tony who had Mason fired?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
no frog
Tony didn’t have Mason fired per se – I just think Mason was the only person who could be fired given two things: 1) Tony would be back and would not come back if anyone else had been let go, and 2) someone had to go given all the comments coming out about changes in the coaching staff
I don't know. . .
that it’s that “the higher powers have decided to back Tony”.
It’s more complicated than that. The powers that be clearly want to go in the youth direction, but they also don’t want to take the hit in the press (or, perhaps, more importantly, in the mind of Albert Pujols) from alienating/running off/firing a HOF manager who has brought the franchise years of success and a World Championship.
There is an uncomfortable amount of front office politics, and there will be until: (1) TLR retires, (2) the owners get tired of the drama and can TLR, or (3) TLR gets an offer that he sees as better in his annual post-season limbo. As long as the Cardinals continue to win and make the playoffs every other year or so, this situation is the Cardinals’ front office, like it or not.
The two things that could trhow a monkey wrench into the analysis are if Pujols doesn’t want to play for TLR, or if Pujols signs an extension and is locked up. After that, it becomes more likely (almost certain in the first event) that the owners will have had enough of TLR.
Smart money, however, absent a Pujols/TLR falling out, is that TLR stays with the Cards until he moves into 2nd place on the All-Time managerial wins list and then retires.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not suggesting that office politics are all about TLR, are you?
We had Jocketty v. Luhnow and who knows who else were involved in the two camps. I feel that this whole thread is a bit too speculative for me. Even when folks are actually let go, e.g. Jocketty, Mason, it’s really not clear to me what all went into the decision. Employers have to be careful for fear of being sued by the employees.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I don't understand this.
The information available suggests Mo had Mason fired, not TLR. Mason coached for TLR for like 13 years – how was he not a “Tony coach.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He was also a member of the Cards org
for 25 years….well before TLR came aboard. They got rid of the definition of a company man, and the problem that I have, is him being fired for airing his grievances (FESTUVUS!!!!). If after 25 years with the same club, the guy can’t speak his mind without getting fired, I say shame on the Cards, not Mason.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Oct 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The fact that the pitching staff thought so highly of him,
you would think would buy him some leeway, but what do I know.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
asshattery?
oh wait… is this rhetorical?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
a bit.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
it may well be involved, for all we know.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It just seems to me
to be a crap reason for getting rid of a guy who has been with the org as long as he has.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
conspiracy theory
this has something to do with Luhnow and Vuch.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This very well may be true.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It depends how much of his mind he was speaking
He is only the mechanics coach after all, he should really shut up about other issues.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I think he had every right to have input on how the minor league staff was being instructed. He had been there and done that. Again, this is all speculation though, because none of us really know what was said. I personally think he was merely the sacrificial lamb.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
What if the voicing of discontent
was giving anonymous quotes to Joe Strauss about how no one in the minor league system was ready for the big leagues yet?
True or not, that should not be voiced to the media.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I agree,
but it’s merely speculation that he was the leak.
“Marty was definitely outspoken,” Mozeliak said. “And when I look at when you’re trying to put a group together, and understanding that this job is already hard enough, to have people that are second-guessing or challenging decisions, it makes it tough. … He certainly made his views known and we obviously decided to make a change.”
The quote just says he was outspoken.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I agree
if That was Mason he should be fired. And this move would make 100% complete sense. However, I’d be careful of connecting the dots and assuming it was Mason. We might never know for sure one way or the other.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
if, hypothetically,
the mechanics coach has to fix all the mechanical problems of the young pitchers coming up, and if, hypothetically, these problems are endangering the pitchers’ careers,
who else is going to say something?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that's not even the kind of thing
that gets fixed at the MLB level. as mcgwire said, these guys are more or less finished products. the kind of mechanical adjustments that hitting or pitching coaches make are almost entirely of the day-to-day adjustment variety
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
that's why it's hypothetical
what if he’s not having to make just day-to-day adjustments?
I’m just saying it’s not just “oh, he’s the mechanics guy, what does he know.” Mechanics is kind of a big deal.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well
it’s not like mo’ is eliminating the position of bullpen coach. he’s just getting a new one. i have a feeling that a MLB GM isn’t going to just forget to have someone on the roster who understands pitching mechanics
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
right now
I wouldn’t put money on it.
…somewhere Dave Duncan realizes Marty didn’t have any binders…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Binders are actually put together by interns upstairs
Just sayin’
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Dunc seems to do it himself.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I am skeptical that this is true
I’ve seen the binders that the Mariners use, and they are DETAILED
Duncan would basically need to chart every single pitch thrown by every single pitcher that we face
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
uh yes.
because that’s all you see him do.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I mean, I'm not discounting that you're right
But by video, with every clip at his disposal, it takes the Mariners guy like 5 days to put together a binder for one team. Pitchers learn new pitches, they develop new approaches, so he HAS to have someone keeping up with all of that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
well, I'm sure he has someone enter it into the computer
they’ve been quoted as saying he’s embraced the technology
but the HD shots of Dunc sitting there marking all the pitches can’t be my imagination.
if you mean pitching when they’re not against the Cardinals, the Cards have employed that video guy for years. he’s most certainly not an intern.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
If DD goes,
the book must stay!!!!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Carp is memorizing it as fast as he can
CDGAFAYBA
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i know someone who knows that video guy, btw.
i should see if i can get any scoop.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Oh you think you fancy, huh?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
nah. best it did was get me tickets next to skip's cousin once.
but i’m still inquiring for scoop.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
VEB don't post at midnight
we rock
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
not the roster
but you catch what i’m cheesin’
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
good point though...
what is the collective noun for the coaches?
every time I say ‘staff’, people think of the pitchers.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
old guys who no longer fit into uniforms yet still wear them.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
...you sure about that?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it works really.
it’s not like mo’ is eliminating the position of bullpen coach. he’s just getting a new one. i have a feeling that a MLB GM isn’t going to just forget to have someone on the old guys who no longer fit into uniforms yet still wear them who understands pitching mechanics.
See. People know what group you are talking about.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
aw man, there's no way I'll remember that
am clearly inadequate.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
but dave mckay is in pretty good shape
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Well,
he was in charge of the 1980’s Oakland Athletics workout regimen that won wide acclaim of revolutionizing the workout philosophy in baseball.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i would just refer to the collective
of uniformed personnel as the clubhouse. clubhouse minus players is, i dunno, coaching staff, i guess
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
cowching staff?
clubcowse?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
what greivances did he have?
I missed that part.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
jmo did what he did in the confines of bdw's budget
i repaet my self, but i’m sure jmo and tlr would have preferred better mid-season additions
but all changes were cost neutral to mlb minimum
not changing my sig
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
yeah, that's what it comes down to
The feuding with stars thing (next reality show?) I’m more persuaded by. That’s not to say that managers should cow-tow to their stars. That strikes me as a potentially toxic clubhouse situation, but feuding shouldn’t get to the press. That’s just bad policy. If a manager lets it get out, that’s bad management. If the player leaks it, that’s disloyalty, not only to the manager, but the team as well. Either way, not terribly pretty.
On the other hand, and maybe someone else could enlighten, I don’t recall how the Rolen and/or Colby tiffs made it to the press.
There doesn’t seem to be a reason why a manager would want to f with a guy like colby, but I don’t know the guy, so who knows. maybe he’s actually a complete johnson.
TLR and colby have made nice, Mo says he isn’t going anywhere… without anything substantial to go on (Strauss’ “teams would like to have Rasmus” obvious observation doesn’t really count for much) I guess I’ll take their word for it.
I never have blamed TLR for the Rolen dust-up. He was hurt and playing like poo. Those guys sit (in my unpublished unwritten book) and just have to deal with it.
But, managers (probably) set the tone for the team. In which case, the buck should be stopping with TLR when it comes to clubhouse chemistry, whether it was “his fault” or not.
They say sing while you slave but I just get bored
by Scarecrow7775 on Oct 19, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Colby tiff
from a Strauss article Sep 5 2010
A source familiar with the situation said Rasmus approached general manager John Mozeliak with his request during the team’s July 23-25 series against the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field. After Rasmus arrived late to the park due to travel complications created by an early morning downpour, La Russa chastised the player in a closed-door meeting. La Russa threatened Rasmus with an option to Triple-A Memphis, according to the source.
Rasmus afterward communicated his frustration to Mozeliak, who assured the player he was going nowhere.
Strauss received information from someone in the clubhouse (say it so Marty Mason) and went to Tony for confirmation, which Tony as always did his “best” to diffuse.
The article led reporters to ambush Colby, who spoke in his native tongue thereby confusing the scribes, which let to Passan asking Albert what he thought about Colby wanting to get out of STL. I hope the press corps had access to clean towels during this dust up.
I am not sure about the timing of this issue and the Jay-Colby comparison made by Tony during a pre game radio interview. I do know this was a week after Colby was pulled from the original lineup against the Nationals and Strauss threw a twitter fit over not being informed.
just like to reiterate
After Rasmus arrived late to the park due to travel complications created by an early morning downpour, La Russa chastised the player in a closed-door meeting.
And if it was indeed Marty Mason, then he should be fired. Actually, whoever leaked that should be let go our least punished.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
exactly
from what I gather, Tony’s strong point as a manager is pregame preparation. I don’t think anyone here will say it’s in game decisions. No StaivoMiles would go a long way in curbing this fault.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I'm with Evilfrog here...
I’m sure TLR has an impact on roster moves (only because I’ve been told as much), and it seems to be a strong influence (once again, because others have said so). Even so, i don’t think any fan has much of an idea as to the extent of his influence on Mo. Even if TLR is like Mo’s crazy girlfriend with a knife, and Mo cowers in fear and nods when TLR makes a request, then it is Mo’s fault for not doing his job.
TLR deserves plenty of criticism, some of his lineups, double switches, perceived feuds etc… are unacceptable. Yet, I just don’t think it’s fair to blame him for the poopstains that were added to our team this season.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Really, Sheckie?
Not even Aaron Miles and Mike MacDougal? Or Jeff Suppan?
Granted, Suppan worked out about as well as you could have expected, but that is not really the point.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Show me the extent of TLR's influence on roster decisions
not PERCEIVED influence, actual influence. Something more than “this is a gritty guy that TLR likes…”, because that is nothing more than your opinion. It all just seems like speculation to me.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Aaron Miles literally said Tony was instrumental in getting him on the team this year.
The end.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Well, i responded already down below.
That only shows that TLR wanted Miles on the team, and Mo signed him to the team. Not that Miles was signed despite Mo’s desires.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
When Mo traded Duncan, Tony was able to threaten his way into getting Matt Holldiay.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
which by the way
is Awesome. He was the second best player on our team and will be for years to come. And if Pujols walks we still have an corner piece.
But I’d like to give Mo credit for going out and getting the piece we needed to make a playoff push and then signing the guy. It was a great trade by Mo, giving a way an overvalued prospect who did not have a future in St. Louis. (unless of course, Pujols goes down.)
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Which is all completely beside the point:
TLR has influence on the roster moves to a greater degree than any manager in baseball. He didn’t pick up Rich Hill, sign the Lohse contract, dig up MacDougal, sign Lopex, but his hand is obvious in other moves that have been made.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
To what extent?
That’s all I want to know.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
How would you like me to prove the extent to you?
Consider: TLR should, by his job description, have little to NO influence on granular personnel decisions. Instead, he has agitated for and gotten at least three major trades (Drew, Mulder, Holliday), gets his favorite washed-up vets to fill out his roster, and has an ownership group that frequently backs him up over Mo.
It isn’t possible for either of us to know the extent through simple research, but it seems obvious to me that the extent, whatever its depth, is too much.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Rolen and Edmonds weren't exactly major trades,
and Kennedy getting cut wasn’t a trade at all. But yeah, all of those happened.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
I agreed with Rolen trade
He seemed washed up. And for a year we got the better 3B.
TLR feuding with our star 3B during the NLCS and World Series is no good. But, I’m not sure you can blame that solely on TLR either.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I'd like evidence to show that Mo disagrees with any of the above
So fine Tony wants certain moves, but that doesn’t mean that Mo disagrees with those moves.
That's all i want to know as well.
How many of these “TLR moves” are against the wishes of Walt or Mo
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
TLR forced Mo's hand on the Rolen trade
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
If Rolen was solely because of his dispute with TLR. Shame on Mo, TLR and Scott.
If Scott was also traded because he seemed washed up. Good for Mo. Santa was pretty good for us before he was injured.
I didn’t like the Rolen situation. A feud starting between the manager and one of our stars during the NLCS is unacceptable. I loved Rolen. But until this year, he seemed done.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
All points well taken. . .
but it still doesn’t change TLR’s petulantly forcing his GM into a trade with his comments at the Winter Meetings. That the trade turned out well in the short-term doesn’t take away TLR’s fault in the matter.
After all, let’s not forget that Glaus looked washed-up at the time, too.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
trade could have easily had gone down anyway
with Rolen asking to be traded before the winter meetings.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I'm with ya on the Rolen affair.
But I think Rolen helped force that hand. Either way, TLR deserves plenty of blame.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
If I'm not mistaken,
that is the consensus view around here. I can dig up some quotes, but I have a feeling you don’t have any intention of doing the same.
For the moment: TLR wanted Holliday. He wanted him before he was traded to Oakland, and he was agitating for him in 2009. Mo Made a move that pissed Tony off, and then suddenly Mo is making a move that makes Tony happy again.
If nothing more you can feel free to admit the odd correlation between Mo’s imperative and TLR’s happiness.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
The Holliday trade was in the works
prior to the trade of Duncan. You are saying that Tony demanded Mo acquire Holliday after Mo traded Duncan. That is what I am calling bullshit on. Tony had been asking for Holliday for over a year. The Cards were rumored to have offered Ludwick for Holliday in Nov 2008.
Isn't that kind of speculation too?
MO then proceeded to sign the guy to a seven year deal. Maybe he also wanted Holliday?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I would hope Mo wanted Holliday
He is an All Star player who plays a position that we were in need of.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Manager wants really good player who's available in trade (Holliday) to fill obvious glaring need (LF) so team can make pennant run.
If this is an indictment of TLR, color me unimpressed.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 19, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Aaron miles is a great example
and really one of two I buy. Suppan might be another though I would think that request would have came from Duncan after PJ Hawksworth failed to hold down the 5th starter. MacDougal doesn’t make any sense what so ever. I fail to see the connection there and wouldn’t have been surprised if Tony and Duncan even knew he became available.
Stavinoha seems to me like a Mo move. Since Mo is the one who says he has no place for him in AAA. And the entire time he was up with the majors tony shown desire to play other players.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Personally, I'm much more concerned with Tony's fighting with good players,
because I doubt we are going to get a JD Drew haul for Rasmus.
It seems pretty obvious that MacDougal was not TLR’s fault (“Get me a hard-throwing reliever with no control NOW!”), and I’d be willing to say Feliz is probably also Mo’s responsibility.
On the other hand, TLR practically refused to play Craig when he was first placed on the roster, still subbed inferior players for Rasmus, continued to play Skip and Stav in the OF when there were four other outfielders on the active roster, and ran Molina into the ground.
These are among the many garden-variety bullshit managerial moves that most managers are probably prone to making. I think the problem is the TLR’s clout allows him to actually make any personnel decisions, and pointing out the fact that he didn’t make all of them doesn’t really convince me that his influence isn’t detrimental.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
some of his on-field managerial decisions were deplorable.
You are right about that.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
But many, many managers suck at those decisions,
and TLR is probably not the worst and could be average.
I would argue that he is detrimental to the team for other reasons.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
His feuds (real or perceived) seem to last too long.
It is the manager’s duty to squash those IMMEDIATELY.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Craig starts
Craig received three starts before being demoted on April 26 for Jon Jay. Mather received three starts in the same time frame. Stav had zero starts. Who was supposed to sit- Holliday, Rasmus or Ludwick so that Craig could get more playing time?
So they demoted the player who had recieved starts and not the player who had not recieved starts.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
This. . .
actually does not bother me. Craig needed ABs because he has upside and was not getting the ABs in the majors.. Stavinhoa, eh, you arguably know what you have. More ABs at AAA aren’t going to help him become any better.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I was kind of surprised that Stav, Craig, and Mather all came up to start the year
I understood Stav at the time, but wasn’t thrilled with it. I was excited about seeing Craig, but it might have been better just to let him get regular PAs from the get-go. The whole “nothing left to prove” thing really was true for Stav, so he didn’t have any more potential to reach.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You have failed to address TLR's fighting with his good players.
Please explain how on more than one occasion talking to the press about the faults of your young CFer is anything but idiocy and hubris.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Billy Martin vs. Reggie Jackson
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Billy Martin proved what a powerful strategic tool paranoia is. He believed that everyone was against him. And so he spent every waking moment figuring out how imaginary enemies could be defeated in their nefarious plots. (..). He was sure the world hated him. And so he turned that really raw, frightened paranoia into wonderful strategic intelligence.
God that sounds familiar.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Considering both personalities involved...
a clash was inevitable.
And everyone probably was against Billy. He was a complete jerk.
But it gives some credence to the saying “just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean that they’re not out to get you.”
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
the most negative quote I can find on Colby
Is him talking about how Jay does a better job on taking pitches on the outside of the plate to right field and laying off those lay and away balls. In the same series of questions he also talks about how hard a worker Colby is and how is a special talent. That is not was not trashing his players.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Tony and Colby were both asked about the trade request,
Colby declined to comment, and Tony confirmed the request and told the reporters to ask Colby about it.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
TLR doesn't take any blame for anything.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
what would you like for him to say?
Deny that it happened even without being sure if Colby was the one who had said it happened? Or say yes it happened and then give out details? Other(please explain)?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
It's more of a generic statement....
not necessarily about the Colby incident. I don’t ever remember TLR accepting any responsibility for any of his obvious failings. Instead, he turns on people and becomes surly. I can’t point to a specific incident but it’s just something I’ve picked up on over the years.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it would have been wiser
to deflect it away from Colby rather than toward him.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
"no comment" would have been fine.
Or a non-answer like “I’ve never heard him ask for a trade.”
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Oct 19, 2010 11:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yea, something like that.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
"I've never heard him ask for a trade"
would not work unless he knew where the leak was coming from. Because if Colby mentioned it than Tony is point blank calling Colby a liar.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
complete non story
Both were blind sighted by the press presumably without knowing what was already said and who said it. Tony’s answer was more correct than Colby’s.The correct answer from Colby would have been to say yes it happened but we are not going to talk about it. I am not blaming Colby for his answer. He has no real experience dealing with the press.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Circumstantial evidence is pretty damning here, Frog
Mozeliak’s last “ManTheEffUp” move was dealing Duncan, who is essentially TLR’s nephew at this point. To that point, minus the preposterous Lohse contract, Mo had done a pretty fine job in my estimation. Then LaRussa and Duncan throw piss fits, Holliday is brought in (and it seems we Cards fans haven’t much to complain about regarding that trade unless the Walrus shows he’s an actual hitter) and ever since then it’s been one move after another that screams TLR. Which suggests to me that Mo is quite capable of doing his job, but is either a coward (which seems to be your position) or feels pressure from above to make TLR happy no matter the cost. If the field manager has that kind of pull with the owner, then his ass needs to move the hell on.
VEP made a second point that was conveniently ignored. Colby Rasmus is a quiet, unassuming, kid who may be a bit stubborn and slow to make adjustments, true, but is undeniably talented. In July, when acc. to TLR (and why is TLR, an adult, airing his dirty laundry with a 24 year old kid with reporters? Seriously?) Rasmus wanted out, the kid was posting a .900+ OPS. Why in the hell is the field manager feuding with those kind of guys? I get the point managers should want to push guys to their very best but if the guy, a future star of the team, is at least in that ballpark of unhappy then it’s gone wwwaaaayyyy too far. LaRussa pulled the same shit with Rolen before Raz and JD Drew before that. The message is clear… if you’re really freaking good, but don’t blindly follow King Tony’s wishes, your ass is grass. That kind of thing actively hurts the team. Not to say that other managers don’t do that kind of thing, but when baseball is loaded with bench coaches and unemployed managers dying for jobs why on earth should this organization put up with one who very clearly does?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 19, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
How do we know that Mo didn't want to sign Miles?
And I don’t know much about the Rasmus/TLR feud… But did it start with TLR telling someone that Cheese requested a trade? All I heard him say was that Cheesegate was a non-issue.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Miles said TLR was instrumental in getting him back on the team.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Ok.
That doesn’t mean Mo didn’t want to sign him, then TLR forced him to. It means that TLR pushed for Miles on the team, and Mo signed him to the team.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
In the same way that guns don't kill people, bullets do,
yes, TLR didn’t hand-type the contract, pick up Miles at his home and drive him to the stadium, sign the contract with him, and then help him put on his uniform like a big boy and then fill out the lineup card with him in it, yeah TLR isn’t responsible for Miles being on the team.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
TLR deserves all the blame for putting him in the lineup.
It’s on Mo to not sign craptastic players. No matter how hard his manager pushes for him.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Oct 19, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is overly simplistic. . .
“It’s on Mo to not sign craptastic players. No matter how hard his manager pushes for him.”
In a pissing match in the press or in the FO, Mo loses. Hence, TLR gets his way more often than would, say Joe Shlabotnik, manager of the Cardinals.
It is just part of what some on here call the LaRussa tax. You can argue that it is worth it, but denying that it exists is being willfully blind.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not arguing that it doesn't exist.
I just don’t know how much of influence TLR has on roster decisions. I don’t think anyone else does either.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
guns don't kill people
people do.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Guns don't kill people. I kill people.
(courtesy of shirt from Billy Madison)
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
not Billy Madison, Happy Gilmore
STUPID!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Mo released him a year earlier
Why would he want to resign him after putting up one the worst seasons of all time?
by vivaelpujols on Oct 19, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a really good question.
But I doubt the answer is near as simple as “Tony made him do it.”
Tony may have pushed him, Tony may have convinced him. But I haven’t seen anything but speculation that shows that Tony would have made him sign miles.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
except Tony has leverage.
as long as he keeps signing one-year deals, Tony always has leverage. even if they’re friendly suggestions, these are not friendly suggestions. it’s like one’s landlord making a friendly suggestion.
and we’re always working on speculation. except why would Miles tell the paper that Tony was instrumental in hiring him.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
but "instrumental" doesn't mean...
“TLR got me signed even though Mo didn’t want to sign me”
I don’t doubt that TLR pushed. He may have pulled some sort of weird power play to sign Miles. It just seems more likely that he convinced Mo that it was the right move to make.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
well, by the same token, you don't know that either.
the point, though, is that Tony should have nothing to do with that. at most he should say “we have a hole we need to fill” and that’s it. Miles should not even think to drop Tony’s name at all.
(and my god, if Aaron Miles is on his short list, then that does reflect on his managerial smarts. now, granted, I can see why Miles is a candidate, because many of the interviews mentioned that he already knew the system and he could fill in immediately. and TLR is one of the few managers who would know how to deploy him. does that outweigh the liabilities, though… )
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Oh i'm not trying to say I know.
If I have come off that way, I have been conveying myself badly. I just think blaming TLR for roster moves is a matter speculation. And using roster construction as a indictment of TLR’s negative impact on our team is speculation.
The focus should be on the things we know he messes up. Batting Feliz 5th, double switches that cause Pujols to bat in front of the pitcher, bullpen management that handcuffs in extra innings, extended feuds (real or perceived) with players, having a creepy smile while he holds kittens.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
And even though I doubt it.
I don’t know. TLR may be able to force Mo to make moves that he doesn’t want to make. I don’t know, very few do.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
different
scenarios. The Cubs paid Miles 3Mil. The Cardinals got him this season for a pro rated league min. Mo could like the talent at one price point and not the other.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
my position isn't that Mo is a Coward
My position is these moves Scream of Mo and not TLR. Suggesting that TLR is being all these moves would be suggesting that Mo is a coward, not doing his job, and would be better off just getting rid of the GM position and use that money in scouting players in Korea or something. I DO NOT think Mo is a coward. I DO NOT think that is even that bad of a GM. I DO think that some of the bad moves this year were Mo’s fault.
As far as the second point I’ve been in circles with VEP on it before and did not feel the need to address it this morning.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Rereading my comment...
…makes it clear that I failed to proofread it and failed to accurately summarize your position. Error on my part.
However, regardless of if you’d had it with VEP’s second point, leaving it out of your was an egregious oversight. VEP wrote:
And that’s mild compared to his most serious transgression –
Followed by his comment on the tiff with Rasmus. You wrote:
so the biggest problem with TLR… is Mo’s inability to do his job
You misconstrued VEP’s position as badly as I did yours. And it’s on this second point that the indictment against LaRussa is strongest. It’s debatable how much roster control TLR has… I come down on one side and you come down on the other and all we have is opaque media reports to go on one way or the other… but it’s pretty obvious that, through the media, TLR has duked it out with key Cardinals players before. Good players have actively wanted to leave this franchise as a direct result of LaRussa’s managerial style. Now, some people are just grouchy and wouldn’t be happy if they were given a billion dollars and keys to eight BMW’s… but that Rolen and Rasmus were at least as upset as they were, that LaRussa refused to back them up or at least say “No Comment,” and that LaRussa let Bissinger’s anti-JD Drew hatchet job in 3 Nights in August stand is, at the absolute best, unprofessional, and actively damaging to the team at worst. And these are just the most obvious examples I can think of off the top of my head. At some point this organization has to decide if it values good players or an aging manager who has a year-to-year, seemingly lifetime contract.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 19, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Not disagreeing on Drew, but I'd make that trade again a hundred times over
He never played more than 140 games in a Cardinal uniform, played fewer than 120 twice, and was going to ask for a max contract, which he ended up getting. He was great when he was on the field, but he could never stay on the field.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'll readily admit that one worked out pretty well
I wonder if the Bravos weren’t sure what they had in Wainwright or if Carp/Izzy’s work with him was just that awesome or something like that… Regardless my point is that good players shouldn’t get drummed out because of the field manager. Drew was also approaching free agency so I bet that had a lot to do with the decision to trade him.
What bugged me was, as wrote in my reply to Evilfrog, the hatchet job against the guy in 3 Nights. Bissinger’s job was, of course, to tell a good story and sell books. JD Drew worked well in the narrative as the guy who just didn’t buy in and it spiced up the story. Hell I’m sure some of it was true. But LaRussa could have still backed the guy up instead of letting Bissinger savage the guy. That didn’t happen and it kind of bugged me. It just screams unprofessional to me.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 19, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The Braves knew what they had....
but they’re so good at finding and developing pitching talent that they can afford to trade some away to acquire impact MLB talent. They traded us a major league starter (Marquis) and a guy they drafted in the 1st round (Wainwright) because they needed a good left handed bat that played outfield. It’s trading from farm depth to fill a major league need when you’re trying to win now.
Hell, just look at their minor league system right now. They have EIGHT starters graded B or better, and graduated Hanson, Medlen, and Jurrjens in the last two years who aren’t included in that group. It’s just incredible how good they are at turning out major league pitchers, both in the rotation and in the bullpen.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
And they got Jurjens for Renteria two years ago
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
To be fair...
JD Drew really is an ass and has had personality conflicts pretty much wherever he’s been. Rolen was run out of Philidelphia after a manager conflict as well. It’s also fairly well known that Colby was a bit of a handful especially last year with all his personal trouble.
So to sum it up, TLR’s bigges personality clashes were with a young, somewhat spoiled kid and two notorious malcontents.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I don't recall any personality conflicts with Drew in Atlanta, L.A., or Boston.
But, that could just be my bad memory.
TLR has had conflicts with: Ozzie Smith, Steve Kline, JD Drew, Tino Martinez, Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds, Colby Rasmus…Am I forgetting anyone else?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I had a conflict with Tino
namely that he was taking AB’s away from a certain GOAT
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
yeah, Adam Kennedy.
Ozzie is an easy one to explain. He was an aging vet with no arm left that needed to be platooned. Everyone knew that BUT Ozzie. Ozzie wanted to go out in one final year of glory. TLR wanted to field his best team (which probably didn’t include much of Ozzie).
Steve Kline flipped off fans, was a general weirdo (what else should we have expected from a leftie though?), and was a bit lax about team rules.
I don’t remember a rift about Tino, though he generally sucked here anyway.
You and I both know that Jimmy had a pretty active nightlife that may or may not have his availability a few times. He was my favorite Cardinal of all time, but he loved to go out and have a beer or 10. Even during season with no off day afterward. That would piss off any manager just a bit.
TLR has managed about 30 major league players every year for the last 16 years and we can remember 7 or 8 players that he had spats with. How many bosses in this world haven’t fought with at least a small percentage of their players?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
how many bosses make it public knowledge outside the company?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
aye, we shouldn't know any of this.
the fact that we do is telling.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
How many bosses are covered
12 hours per day by a cadre of reporters?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
so, it's okay
to spill private clubhouse business just because someone asked?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
No, but how do you lie
when the player himself aired a bit of the rumors himself?
Prophet, I bet you have no idea of how much stuff he does keep from the press.
And, hey, how ’come so many of us here think it was awesome when Carp chewed Ryan out TWICE on camera, yet when Tony tries to be diplomatic about a problem with the press we get angry for airing dirty laundry?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
you don't need to lie
that assumes that he has to say anything
and i didn’t think carp was awesome at all there. honestly, carp is one of a couple of very high profile, very good cardinals who seem like downright dicks to me. i just don’t talk about because a) it doesn’t really matter with regard to team performance and b) because these are popular players and i don’t feel like having a pissing match over something so inconsequential
in carp’s defense, though, i think he at least thought he was out of camera shot
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Yeah,
I wasn’t calling you out individually on the Carp thing.
Personally, I think Tony could do a better job of managing the team, but after being a pretty avid fan of baseball in general for the last 15 years or so, I think there are MUCH worse managers out there.
I just think we as a fanbase are kind of stuck in a “grass is greeener” scenario. We do have it pretty good with Tony. We have good teams that play hard and generally win.
I’ll also say this: sometimes saying “no comment” does more damage than trying to explain a situation.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
But is that Tony?
Or Albert, Carp, Wainwright, Holliday?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
There are worse managers
But I think there are better ones as well. How many wins per season does TLR have over his career? Just curious.
“No comment” is better than some of the things TLR says.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Baseball Reference Says
32 Years
2638 Wins
5 Pennants and 2 World Series Titles
Believe that is 82.4 wins per year.
don't forget
number of losses.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He asked a question
And I answered it. But yes, Tony has thus far lost 2,293 games. That’s an average of 71.6 per year.
And before you ask, the reason those numbers turn out that way is he had a couple of seasons where he didn’t manage the whole year. Not to mention the 1994 strike.
To be fair,
one should probably throw out the seasons that were not a full season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
82.4 per year.
thanx!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
how many bosses
have reporters asking them and their employees questions about each other everyday after work?
All sports organizations have these issues.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
but there's no reason to air it out.
that’s why they’re asked questions, because they’re the public face of the team.
yet another item on a manager’s job description.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
not all of these came from Tony
AK I remember clearing was him talking to the press
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
so, that gives tony the right to rebut?
mo’ and his handling of marty mason is how these kinds of things should be handled. we don’t even know there was ever an issue until it’s been resolved
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
he can't just say
No comment, no comment. Etc..
It doesn’t work. MLB want’s their managers to talk to the Press. I’m sure Tony would be all about never having to talk to reporters if it was an option.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
false.
tony loves the attention. and he loves to act like he hates it.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
you really think
that mo’ would have preferred tony saying “yeah, he requested a trade. he requested one last year, too” to “that’s private clubhouse business and i’m not going to comment on it. don’t ask again”?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
if Colby would have been the one talking about trade
then yes. He would have. Otherwise he would have been calling Colby a liar.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
how does the latter statement make colby into a liar?
and when did colby confirm, on record, that he requested a trade anyway?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
he didn't
Tony did not know where the Comments were coming from at the time he was asked about it. So he told the truth.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
he still never had to say anything
i don’t see how anything could be more prudent, especially given the context that you mention, than to just say “no comment”
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
the political world comes to mind
but when there are issues, the person just gets fired. obama doesn’t go ranting to the media because rahm emanuel (however it’s spelled) isn’t as savvy as whoever else
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
(well, mostly 'cause rahm will cut you)
/politics
/and not really. one hopes.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Just about every politician and professional and college sports coach out there.
It’s one thing to despise the media in general (Bob Knight, Bill Parcells). It’s another to despise them until you have a reason to use them as leverage.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
AK's beef was
Tony benching him after AK sucked.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
tony has no beef with anyone
Veggie remember?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I don't think it was right....
to ask Ozzie to move to second base after a HOF career at SS.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Cal Ripkin...
(one of my favorite players of all time) was willing to move, and it wasn’t at the end of his career. Ozzie wasn’t willing to move (and I don’t blame him) but TLR insisted on it.
I remember an incident late in McGwire’s career when he was struggling. Tony let him go to the on deck circle until his at bat came up, then pulled him back for a pinch hitter. Tony knew he might possibly pinch hit for him but to let him go on deck first them pull him back was embarrassing to a player of that stature. Similar treatment of Ozzie.
It’s something that a manager should know better than to do. It happened to Ruth once in his career and he hit the roof over it. So would I.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to nit-pick
Cal Ripkin, one of my favorite players of all time) was willing to move, and it wasn’t at the end of his career.
Cal was a SS for (about) 14 years.
Cal was a 3B for (about) 5 years.
Maybe I’m splitting hairs, but 3/4 of Ripken’s career was at SS. His move to 3B was at the END of his career.
And while I have tremendous respect for Ozzie and all he did for the Cardinals, what does that say about him as a “team player”?
you got me there...
I though he moved a little earlier than that.
I don’t want to say what it says about Ozzie being a team player, but he deserved the respect of not playing 2nd if he chose not to.
He was always a team player for Herzog and Torre but when LaRussa got here things went sour in a hurry.
My basic point is, though, that sometimes TLR doesn’t show the respect for his players that they deserve (sometimes).
That’s debatable, but he just strikes me that way.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a team player for Whitey and Torre because they didn't want to move him from SS
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
no shit!
They had better sense.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
They also didn't have a better option at the position.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
yea,
I thought about that after I posted.
They didn’t have Royce Clayton. But even with Clayton, I wouldn’t ask Ozzie to switch to 2nd……well, I might ask but that’s all. I wouldn’t insist. I’d ask Clayton first and I might insist a little more until Ozzie retired (to save face, if necessary).
There’s a 50/50 chance that Oz would have looked like crap at 2nd and I’m sure he didn’t want to go out that way.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't a fan during this time
But was Royce Clayton a stud prospect coming up?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Los Gigantes 1st rounder, 15th overall.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
no
he was an established premier shortstop, with a cannon arm. Maybe one of the top 4 ss’s. But he was in the prime of his career, not a shoe-in for the Hall of fame like Ozzie.
Other SS’s at the time were Barry Larkin and Gary Templeton.
Smith, Larkin, Clayton and Templeton were probably the highest ranked at the time.
Larkin was almost as good in the field as Ozzie but had a better stick. Templeton had great range for a big guy and was a switch hitter like Ozzie but had a big head and derailed his career here in STL with a “pulled groin”, so to speak. Clayton had an arm like Brendon Ryan…maybe better but not quite the range of Larkin or Oz.
(all from memory)…better check this out yourself.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
thanx for the refresher!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He was established and "on the cusp" of becoming a star
A lesser Larkin or Ozzie would be quite correct, in my memory.
I remember reading a ST story about Clayton idolizing Ozzie and happy to be on the same roster. I wonder how he felt a couple of weeks in.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
I wonder how Tony would react
If the front office would want him to be the third base coach?
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Hutchinson vs. Ruth
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
bollocks.
They polled all ML players on their least favorite manager – or the manager they’d least like to work for -
Results:
1) Ozzie Guillen
2) Lou Piniella
3) TLR
Lou’s gone. Tony is one step up from ozzie guillen, in the estimation of players. He’s not just one of several who have the odd personality conflict. He’s among the worst offenders.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Oct 20, 2010 12:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tom, that's not telling the whole story.
TLR scored as #3 for best manager on the same poll.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
it's an
espn insider article, but I found this reproduced:
Best Manager
1. Bobby Cox, Braves: 23%
2. Mike Scioscia, Angels: 16%
T3. Joe Torre, Dodgers; Tony LaRussa, Cardinals: 11% each
5. Terry Francona, Red Sox: 7%
6. Joe Girardi, Yankees: 6%
7. Joe Maddon, Rays: 4%
T8. Four managers tied with 3% each
T12. Two managers tied with 2% each
T14. Two managers tied 1% each
Last manager you’d play for
1. Ozzie Guillen: 30%
2. Lou Pinella: 29%
3. Tony LaRussa: 7%
4. Dusty Baker: 5%
T5. Five managers tied with 3%
T10. Seven managers tied with 2%
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
in all honesty, i had not recalled the favorable
Rankings. But I think the point still stands – tony has a rep for being one of the more antagonistic managers. I am not surprised that he evokes such a love/hate response.the comments above about tony having some favorite guys and some he throws under the bus sound right to me.
I still don’t think it’s right to say that tony is just one of many who have personality conflicts. Tony has a particular proclivity for offending people.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Oct 20, 2010 1:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just wanted to point out
that he had just as many (actually more) favorable votes than the other way. I also found it interesting the first time I read that poll that he was the only guy on both lists. Just shows how polarizing the guy is.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Funny
Are any of the rest of the top 5 also listed in the bottom 5? Ummmmmm. No. Just one.
And Ron Gardenhire isn’t on there? That has to be because he’s had so few free agent players play for him doesn’t it?
Also, I would love to have Terry Francona as the Cardinals manager. I think he’s the most underrated manager in the big leagues. He handles personalities well, uses his bench well, has a generally good repoire with both players and media. He just doesn’t get any credit for it because he manages the big budget Red Sox.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Any of the rest of the bottom 5
in the top 5?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I believe that DeWitt is to blame for Tony's influence on roster construction, not Mo.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hard to prove
but I agree.
the trouble with qualitative stuff like interpersonal relationships is we the public don’t have enough information about them, and the people inside them tend not to see it’s happening.
if only there were some group of impartial observers to clarify the situation.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Why do you think you know these people?
By all accounts, Rasmus is a quiet guy who will not stir up shit and simply likes to do his job.
By all accounts, Tiger Woods is a committed family man.
It’s not like Rasmus is a clubhouse cancer in the slightest.
I don’t know why people continue to project their constructions of what these people are like. You don’t know these people. You don’t know what Colby’s like and you don’t know what TLR’s really like either. You know very little about their interactions, and most of what you think you know, as reported by the press, is probably inaccurate. (Have you ever been involved in a situation that’s gotten a lot of press coverage? The press coverage is always, always wrong, often in significant aspects.)
Criticize Tony and Mo for putting crappy players on the roster (and playing them). They deserve it. But all this “personsality conflict” stuff is just reality tv fluff.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 19, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
It's still a pot that was stirred by TLR.
Tony called Rasmus out in the press. How in the hell is that anything but completely out of line?
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Here, Here!!
Can I get an Amen?
It’s funny how some people think they have inside information, isn’t it?
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what this has to do with airing dirty laundry in the press.
If TLR likes you, he will defend you to the death to the press and the public (ex. McGwire in ’98 and ’99, Aaron Miles).
If he doesn’t like you, he airs it publicly in an attempt to get you to fall in line (J.D. Drew, Jason Marquis, Scott Rolen, Adam Kennedy, Anthony Reyes, Colby Rasmus)
You’re right, I don’t know any of these guys personally, but the words and actions do mean something. I don’t see how calling out a player in the press has any positive consequences come of it, especially when those players are typically aloof, workmanlike (not to mention extremely talented) players like Drew, Rolen, and Rasmus. You don’t see many successful coaches do this with star talent…..except for those coaches that Tony hangs out with (Bob Knight, Bill Parcells).
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Oct 19, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 19, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I get sick of reading how Tony
ed over Rolen.
Rolen was hurt, and playing like hammered goat crap. We were trying to win a WS title. What do you want Tony to do, play a bad player that is hurt, over somebody that might be able to be more productive? I sure don’t.
Rolen got his feelings hurt, and acted like a baby. Boo frickin’ hoo.
I want the manager of my favorite team, especially during playoff time, to do EVERYTHING he can to win games/series. If that means sitting Albert Pujols b/c he is hurt and not producing, and we have a better option, then Albert can sit on the pine. Period. To suggest otherwise is silly.
We're not referring to the NLCS incident.
With that I completely agree with you, and Rolen got over it and had a very good World Series for us. I’m referring to all the Rolen bashing that went on during the winter meetings that year in which Tony basically put the organization in a spot where they had to deal him because there wasn’t any going back after those things were said.
I think that is what the others are referring to when talking about running Rolen out of town. It stemmed from the NLCS incident where he got benched, but Tony just couldn’t let it alone that someone would question his authority and then ripped the player publicly when there was no need or justification for doing so.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Rolen was also speaking to the media about it
during the off season, and before the winter meeting when Tony went off.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
but, but
he started it!
tony’s the manager
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
plenty of fault to go around.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I agree Tony's the manager
i think it’s part of his duty to squash public feuds. If he dislikes someone, he should’ve kept it in the organization. Same with Scotty, but I think in this situation the manager is held to a higher standard.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
What is this, 3rd Grade?
“But, But HE’S DOING IT?!?!?!?!”
Good grief — act like a man and suck it up. Meet with the guy and bury the hatchet.
Nope, instead I’m going to rip him in the media, because, in the history of time, this has proven to be productive.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
are you talking about Tony or Rolen?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Because Rasmus has said like 6 words to the press?
I think it’s pretty clear that Rasmus is not a shit stirring type of guy – you can be skeptical if you want, but there is clearly a reason for me to think this way. There is no reason to think that Rasmus is a clubhouse cancer.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 19, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
he's probably misunderstood a lot
because he sounds like Boomhaur (however that’s spelled).
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a class at ten, but let me see if I can make myself clearer
If you reread the part you cite in the beginning you’ll see I’m only saying it’s difficult to tell when a player overperforming his projections has been helped by the manager, and only too easy to lay it on the manager when a player underperforms them. La Russa’s appeared to do well by this in the past, and he appeared to do poorly this year, but I would take no more stock in that than I would Colby Rasmus’s one-year UZR.
As for Miles, La Russa’s influence is certain there and there alone, although I think you’re giving other GMs too much credit when you suggest “such an idiot [would never] rise to the GM position.” Nevertheless, this is the one I concede, and the one I think we overvalue as a result—we know, clearly, that Miles was La Russa’s doing, because he said so, but he was a replacement level player competing with other players who were probably at or near replacement level.
The other moves that are grouped under this category I find extremely difficult to level at La Russa alone—Mike MacDougal, et cetera. I think you’re arguing from insufficient evidence when you suggest La Russa has such a massive or unique impact on personnel moves—Chris Duncan did finally get traded, Marty Mason has been fired, etc., and Mike MacDougal, for instance, is only a clear La Russa move inasmuch as he is a veteran and terrible at baseball. As for other contending team hijinks I would suggest a look at the Rangers’ various attempts to fill space at catcher and first; the White Sox’s determination to give Mark Kotsay 100 games at DH, Juan Pierre 160 games in left, Omar Vizquel 100 at third; the Twins’ long-term fascination with Nick Punto; the Phillies’ flirtations with Wilson Valdez, Greg Dobbs, and Juan Castro (OPS+ 29); or the Padres’ 117 games of Tony Gwynn Jr.
RE: the open and public feuding with Colby Rasmus, the accounts that we have now that the season is over, both parties concerned have recanted, and Colby Rasmus put up a season much better than we could have expected seem pretty slim as a reason to call La Russa a “massive detriment” to the team, or to suggest we believe Joe Strauss over Mozeliak and post-reconciliation La Russa and Rasmus. Actually
You’re right that he has a history of going to the mat with stars, one I’m typically on the wrong side of—I excoriated that J.D. Drew trade until 2006, and will never forgive La Russa for denying me the chance to see an MV4 lineup in 2004—but J.D. Drew was a year from free agency and Scott Rolen, whose contract ran a year longer, looked no less done than Troy Glaus in 2008. Forcing the team to dump a cost-controlled star center fielder would, indeed, be a new move for La Russa.
In the end I think you’re misrepresenting both the degree of my argument and its focus, and part of that might be my fault. What I don’t want to do is to start off pissed at La Russa and interpret the evidence through the lens of his perceived inadequacies, and having tried to avoid that I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s a capable manager, and that given how difficult it is to evaluate a manager I’d rather bet on him than the field. If Colby Rasmus gets traded (for something other than Adam Wainwright et al), I’m wrong.
by DanUpBaby on Oct 19, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
hm—no idea where that actually was supposed to lead in paragraph four.
also, read that first sentence “if you reread the part you cite in the beginning [and also if I rewrite it]”, because I won’t argue it was my most lucid work.
Tony Gwynn Jr. doesn't count.
The dude was like a CF-Brendan Ryan (defense so good, his overall value manages to come out positive in spite of his terrible offense). His WAR was 1.7. He also stole 17 bases with a 80+% success rate.
I know I’m nitpicking on something that’s a bit tangential to the discussion; I just wanted to defend Gwynn the Thin.
Could Colby Rasmus hit a ball so hard that even he couldn't catch it?
by Cardinals645 on Oct 19, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
True dat
Way better than the 75-post threads that have been the norm around here lately
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'd agree
Arguing about baseball is much better than not talking about baseball.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
thank you
the fact that we have these public feuds, and that he has ran players like Scott Rolen off the team, shows that he needs to learn some people skills, or he needs to get over himself. his managing style is also becoming outdated, and as you mentioned the roster and bullpen management leaves much to be desired. there’s guys out there that would do a better job, but unfortunately the hiring process for MLB managers is not a very logical or rational one.
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Showing some more of my ignorance here......
can somebody please explain the green thing to me?
What does it mean and how does it happen?
(I’m embarrassed).
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
do you mean
the “green” thing as in the movement to call everything slightly less damaging to the environment green.
Or the Tyler Greene thing?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I mean a post turning green.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Any post with 6 (or more) rec's
Goes green.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
when a post gets 6 recs
(click the actions button and then click rec for a post you like agree, chuckled at, etc.) it becomes serious here at VEB, and becomes green. Other VEB blogs have a lower thresh hold for comments turning green, say 2 or three recs.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Nice typo.
All your blogs belong to VEB.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
oh
if you click the action button next to reply you can click on Rec. With 6 recs a post becomes green. That way good post stand out for people who just kinda of skim through.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Ah!
I’ve rec’d stuff but didn’t know that enough of those turned a post green. Thanx. I’m enlightened!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
because VEB has been falling behind in its recs and ought to be ashamed
so many comments sitting at 4 recs and 5 recs, they might as well be blue.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe there's just not 6 people here that can agree on something.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
and rec'd.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
flagged
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
and that's the fun of it
i rec’d you
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
My advice would be. . .
to call your doctor.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 20, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
This entire thread is so boring to me, I can't even explain it in words
Only in slow, painfully noncommittal hand gestures
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol sound familiar anyone?
Joe Maddon was winning games, even with his shenanigans, his lineup changes, his constant tinkering, his usage of players that shouldn’t even be in the major leagues, and yes, his ridiculous road trips that kept players minds on other things than trying to win games.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
except he's winning in the AL East.
all the Cards have to do is get out of the NL Central.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I would love to have Maddon over Tony
But explain how Mo and DeWitt can make that happen. Only thing that comes to mind is Money. Money money money.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I'm not sure that was rockstar's point...
and I was pretty sure I was responding to that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hmmm..Maddon grew up a Cardinal fan...
who has a richer tradition…Rays or Cadinals? AL East or NL Central? Albert Pujols?
I don’t think it would be the hardest thing in the world to get a guy like Maddon to come to the Cardinals. Plus, The Ryas are going to be losing a big chunk of that team via free agency pretty soon starting with Carl Crawford in about a month.
Maddon is good because...
the Rays were so bad, for so long, that they got to draft a bunch of top-shelf talent that the Cards never had a chance at – Longoria, Price, Niemann, BJ Upton. Even Garza was traded for Delmon Young, another top draft pick.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 19, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maddon is highly overrated as a strategist.
However, he still doesn’t talk to the media about clubhouse fights.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
no not at all
What Maddon did say was clear enough, especially since had benched Upton on Aug. 6 for a similar infraction: "I can’t make it any more plain, simple, obvious, black and white. There are no gray areas. I can’t have Aki (Iwamura) run like he is and (Carlos) Pena and Cliff (Floyd), who has two bad knees, etc., and permit that. I can’t permit it."
Upton, who said he didn’t hustle because he mistakenly thought there were two outs, didn’t take kindly to how he was removed from the game.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/rays/content/upton-pulled-game
By the way, He also benched Upton, the young and up coming star, a week later for not hustling.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
if you got la russa really drunk (make sure you're the dd) and asked him about it
he’d probably tell you he benched Rasmus because he didn’t keep his head in the game or hustle enough at some moment that meant absolutely nothing to us. Upton is more demonstratively a headcase, but Maddon did bring it up with the media. Didn’t the Rasmus fight start with both of them trying really unconvincingly to keep it out of the media?
Also...it's not like BJ Upton was tearing the cover off the ball either.
Dude had a .237/.322/.424/.745 line for the year, .100+ points below where Rasmus ended up.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
just make sure you take of the first
swing and a long one…
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
ah!
swing and a miss!
This is what I get for mutlitasking
“Make sure you take the keys first..” is what i meant to type.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Rasmus-LaRussa fight
Colby was benched for a late arrival to the July 24th Cubs game. Lopez was also benched. Colby’s benching lasted three days, Lopez lasted one day. Colby’s benching was attributed to Ludwick’s activation and Colby being in a funk
Manager Tony La Russa used Ludwick’s return as an opportunity to give Jon Jay the start in center field over slumping Colby Rasmus. La Russa is aware of Rasmus’ overall 1-for-20 funk in addition to being hitless with even strikeouts in his last 13 day at-bats. As for the center field mix, La Russa is as impressed with Jay as he is perplexed by Rasmus’ fits of production followed by profound slumps. “One of the things we complimented [Rasmus] about this spring and a good part of this season was that it looked like he had learned a lot from last year and he wasn’t playing as young,” La Russa said. “I want to be able to give him that compliment at the end. I hope he earns it.”
This was also reported on Lopez
Manager Tony La Russa has removed Felipe Lopez from today’s start, replacing him as leadoff hitter with Aaron Miles and at third base with Tyler Greene. La Russa described the move as a “manager decision,” adding that the move was not injury-related.
La Russa met with Lopez after Saturday’s 5-0 loss in which the Cardinals infielder struck out three times and endured a difficult defensive game.
Lopez did not appear outside the Cardinals dugout along with the other position players for the National Anthem.
In the July 24th closed door meeting, Colby and LaRussa have strong and loud words while LaRussa explains his expectations. Strong words include LaRussa threatening sending Colby to AAA and Colby responding with his “trade request”, or more likely “just trade me your old fart”.
Strauss breaks the July 24th story on Sept 5th.
A source familiar with the situation said Rasmus approached general manager John Mozeliak with his request during the team’s July 23-25 series against the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field. After Rasmus arrived late to the park due to travel complications created by an early morning downpour, La Russa chastised the player in a closed-door meeting. La Russa threatened Rasmus with an option to Triple-A Memphis, according to the source.Colby never asked Mo for a trade per the following from a Sept 6 article
Rasmus afterward communicated his frustration to Mozeliak, who assured the player he was going nowhere.
“I believe this is way overblown. He or his agent never requested [a trade] from me,” said Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak via e-mail on Tuesday.
Albert talks to Colby on Sep 6th flight to Milwaukee about how to keep away from Strauss in the future.
Mo’s take on the trade request from Sept Social Media night
In response to a separate question about Rasmus, he spoke more forcefully regarding the status of the young outfielder. Rasmus requested a trade earlier this season, but has since said that he’s happy in St. Louis.
“A lot of times players, out of frustration or for whatever reason, may go into a meeting and come out saying some things they may regret,” Mozeliak said. “But a lot of times, you have to understand, these things never get out there. In this particular case, it’s been festering for a while. But I can assure you, Colby’s not going to be traded. I can also assure you that some of the things he’s dealing with are typical growing pains that young players go through. When I look at the talent he brings to the table, and when I think about how I could replace that, I realize that would be a very difficult task ahead.”
by ubeddie on Oct 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Lopez benching may have been longer
if we had someone besides Aaron Miles on the roster to play third.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Greene was on the roster
manager’s decision on that one. Miles started at third twice (june 9 & august 3) during the season and substituted at 3rd three times for a total of 25 defensive innings.
18 of Miles 22 starts were at 2B in place of Schu when the Cards faced lefties. Miles had 2 starts at SS besides his 2 at 3B.
Greene was on the roster
but not available due to injury. If you recall shortly after that incident he went to the DL.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Greene did play for Lopez
on the 24th, then only made one more start at SS before his Aug 1st demotion/DL stint. Lopez kept playing except for one start by Miles and one by Craig before Pedro came to the rescue.
yes
but Greene was limited to PHing duties after that do to soreness, made that august start, and was again limited. He was set to start the next day, but instead they were making the roster move, so he decided to go on the DL instead.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Really? I suppose the Cardinals haven't had any 1st round picks in any of those years, right?
I get tired of this line, because it’s completely ill-informed. Let’s go through their lineup:
C – Jaso: Drafted 12th Round 2003
1B – Pena: Drafted by Texas (1st, 10th), released by not one, not two, but THREE teams (DET, NYY, BOS), and picked up by Tampa as freely available talent.
2B – Rodriguez: Drafted by Anaheim (3rd round), acquired for Scott Kazmir, who was acquired by frisking Steve Phillips.
3B – Longoria: Drafted 1st round, 3rd pick, 2006
SS – Bartlett: Drafted 13th round by SDP, traded with Garza for Harris, Pridie, Young.
LF – Crawford: Drafted 2nd round 1999
CF – Upton: Drafted 1st round, 2nd pick, 2002
RF – Zobrist: Drafted by Houston (6th Round), acquired with another player for Aubrey Huff in ’06.
BN – Brignac: Drafted, 2nd round, 2004
BN – Joyce: Drafted by DET, 12th round, 2005. Acquired for Edwin Jackson.
BN – Aybar: Signed as Amateur FA by LAD, acquired via trade with Atlanta for Jeff Ridgway.
BN – Jennings: Drafted, 10th Round, 2006.
SP – Price: Drafted, 1st round, 1st pick.
SP – Garza: Drafted by MIN, 1st round 25th pick; Acquired with Bartlett in trade posted above.
SP – Niemann: Drafted 1st round, 4th pick.
SP – Shields: Drafted 16th round, 2000
SP – Davis: Drafted 3rd round, 2004
RP – Soriano – Signed as FA 2010.
RP – Hellickson – Drafted 4th round, 2005.
RP – Cormier – FA, 2009
RP – Benoit – FA, 2010
RP – Wheeler – Traded for Ty Wigginton.
RP – Balfour – Acquired for Seth McClung.
So — they have exactly FOUR players on their 40 man that they drafted in the first round with a protected pick.
You know what else? They don’t miss on their top picks very often, which is probably more of the reason that they’re successful rather than just having the option to draft that high all the time. Here are their 1st round and supplemental picks from 2000 – 2008:
Tim Beckham
David Price
Evan Longoria
Wade Townsend
Jeff Niemann
Delmon Young
B.J. Upton
Dewon Brazelton
Rocco Baldelli
So, that’s 6 out of 9 that are in the majors or have been a productive major league player, and Beckham is still pretty young.
Now, the Pirates and Royals were just as bad over those years as the Rays, and here are their first rounders over the same time period:
Pirates:
Pedro Alvarez
Daniel Moskos
Brad Lincoln
Andrew McCutchen
Neil Walker
Paul Maholm
Bryan Bullington
John Van Benschoten
Sean Burnett
Royals:
Eric Hosmer
Mike Montgomery
Mike Moustakas
Luke Hochevar
Alex Gordon
Billy Butler
Matthew Campbell
J.P. Howell
Christopher Lubanski
Mitch Maier
Zack Greinke
Colt Griffin
Mike Stodolka
So — out of those two teams, who drafted nearly all those guys in the top 10, they have about as many MLB regulars or rotation starters between them as the Rays do by themselves with fewer picks.
It’s not just about drafting in the top of the first round. It’s about minimizing mistakes with those picks and getting good value in the middle rounds, like the Rays have with Hellickson, Crawford, Davis, and Brignac.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Oct 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What does any of this have to do with whether Joe Maddon is good?
Are you saying Maddon, scouted, drafted, developed or traded for these guys. these guys?
All you did was support my main argument that Maddon got to manage of bunch of good players and whoever managed the Pirates and Royals did not. Appreciate the further research.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You said that the reason Joe Maddon is good
is because the Rays were terrible for years and drafted in the top of the draft and got a whole shitload of great talent. Which simply isn’t true. Only two of their regulars were drafted by them in the first round, and only two of their pitchers were. In that case, the Cardinals should win 100 games every year, because we have Pujols and Rasmus. It’s a shit argument….and now you’re trying to change it. Imagine that.
You were completely ignoring the fact that Carlos Pena went from FAT to MVP candidate (Pena credits Maddon for helping him turn his career around), that the Rays have done a very good job of drafting (along with a bit of luck, obviously), and that their organization as a whole is very well run.
Does drafting high help? Yes, but only if you draft the right guys and then develop them to ensure that they pan out, while getting good value later in the draft and via trade.
Maddon is a good manager because he knows his team well, and manages accordingly. This is something La Russa used to do very well, although I think that he’s lost some of this ability in recent years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Quote:
the Rays were so bad, for so long, that they got to draft a bunch of top-shelf talent
That’s not true. That’s my point.
Sure, they have 4 guys, but 4 guys don’t make a team. It takes 25 to fill out a roster.
Hell, the Cardinals were more “home-grown” than the Rays were this year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Why are you going nuclear?
Just coming into this conversation, and I’m puzzled why you’re so hot and bothered, fourstick. But I’m not here to fight, so I’ll just make a few indisputable points and get out of the way.
-The Rays were terrible for a number of years
-The Rays had a number of high draft picks in a relatively short span of time
-The Rays drafted very well on those high draft picks
And finally, an opinion – good players can make a manager look better than he or she actually is. Say whatever you want, but its hard to deny that picking up Longoria, Upton and Price all in super high draft picks has given the Rays several of the key pieces necessary to win. Yes, Maddon is pretty good as a manager. But he looks even BETTER because he has young, talented players that have been in the Rays organization from the get-go.
Baseball drafting is often a crapshoot. The Rays drafts over a short period of time were both educated AND lucky. That’s why they are so formidable, despite a low payroll.
Why are you going nuclear?
Have you ever read a fourstick post here? lol
/just a joke FS.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
...
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
He's going nuclear because he's responding to me...
he follows me around this site like a pet chihuahua.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Get a life dude
I don’t follow you around — you make silly points using no evidence and then try to recuse yourself from them. And then blame me for calling you out for being silly and uninformed.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The point is that it wasn't just because they drafted high after sucking for 15 years.
They drafted high pretty much the entire first 8 years they were in existence and they sucked the whole time. They have also been very good at making trades for undervalued players and finding good players in the middle rounds of the draft who develop into really good players.
They’ve fleeced other GM’s pretty spectacularly in both Kazmir deals and in the deal for Zobrist, mainly because those GM’s didn’t know what they had or what they were getting. They drafted Brignac in the second round while we drafted Kozma in the first round. Hellickson is probably the best minor league pitcher that will be in a rotation next year and he was a third round choice. Desmond Jennings is a very good player that will probably replace Carl Crawford next year and he was a 10th round pick.
Sure, they’ve been a bit lucky, but they’re also really, really good at identifying talent, developing talent, and acquiring talent from other organizations. They’ve also been really, really good at locking up the young talent to excellent team friendly deals (Longoria, Crawford) that buy out their arb years and then some.
So — it’s fucking WRONG to imply that the Rays are good because they drafted in the top of the draft after sucking for a decade. The other teams that have drafted in the top play in much shittier divisions and can’t ever seem to procure good talent and have a fair number of busts on their record in the last 10 years. The Rays are simply a very well run organization that gets no fan support and has won the best division in baseball 2 of the last 3 years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Let's take Upton, Longoria, Price, and Niemann off their roster....
and replace them with Jennings, Brignac (who plays SS and moves Zobrist to 3B), Hellickson, and Aneury Rodriguez. Sure, there will be some fall off, but it’s not like they immediately become a team drafting in the top 5 again.
Not to mention that their farm system has a ton of depth and is actually BETTER now than it was 5 years ago when they were drafting in the top 5 every year. They really make their middle round picks pay off.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't think WMT was criticizing the Rays. . .
they certainly deserve credit for their drafting prowess. I think his point is that Joe Maddon has lots of talent, therefore Joe Maddon wins. Which is true.
I tend to agree that managers get too much credit for winning.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true
But I think that Maddon also does a good job of managing his team to it’s strengths. Something that a lot of managers don’t do. I think Bobby Cox might be the best in the history of game and changing his managing to benefit the roster that he has.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I agree 100%
there are 2 types of great leaders. One type develops a system of leadership, then either recruits people that are predisposed to that system or trains people to acclimate to his system. The other type changes his system according to the personell available.
IMO, both can be great leaders. The second type is very rare however. Most coaches/managers/CEO’s are of the first type.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Don't forget Whitey!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
All the more reason,
TLR should have no say in roster construction. That rays roster was built by awesome personnel evaluation professionals. TLR may have some redeeming qualities, but picking the most talented player has never been one of them.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
by hazel on Oct 19, 2010 11:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I dunno, the Royals draft picks look damn good.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Huh?
I’ll give you Greinke and Butler, but Gordon has been a bust thus far, Hochevar hasn’t been anything to write home about and the rest of those guys are total busts. If you’re drafting in the top 10 for a full decade, you have to get more than 2 impact guys if your franchise is going to turn around. Either that, or you have to have a great latin american operation (Rangers, Braves) or knock your middle round picks out of the park (Rays). K.C. and Pittsburgh have none of those things.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The Rays traded a useful player for a manager once...
We even have Randy Winn!
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
terrifying picture
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I like it when Holliday shows some emotion.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i would not be surprised if one day he turns green and rips up his uniform
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
it's kind of awesome
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
One thing that I noticed and really appreciated about Holliday.
He worked his ass off all year long. Up until the last game of the year, he looked like he was giving his all every game. I appreciate when you can notice that.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Even more terrifying in uniform
by Buckeye Redbird on Oct 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Holy crap! it's UNCANNY!!!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
continuity? or co-dependence?
At this point, I don’t think any of us can be non-partisan about this whole La Russa thing. But I would like people to stop twisting around reality to suit their arguments.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It's all spilled milk now.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 10:48 AM EDT reply actions
so it was MooCow.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, that's it! That's the ticket!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Damn cows.
Starting fires, spilling milk, being all shaky.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
You did good cow,
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Sweet! There are mugs!!!!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/products.php?term=nertlerb&defid=4464894
:=8D
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
that's all it takes to hold back matt holliday?
must be some sort of lego disactivation switch. let’s make sure it’s not accidentally triggered in april again
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
is he made of metal?
look around the wrist
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
that's how the Cardinals are actually paying him
$17 million each year spent on making him a robotman.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
maybe what the Blues need is to pick up a robotman from Oklahoma
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
robots as high as an elephant's eye, climbing clear up to the sky
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey are we having a T.E. S. S.
and it isn’t even baseball season.? Good stuff.
For my money I agree with bgh:
TLR has an outsized influence on roster make-up. And DeWitt allows him to have it. There is not a chain of command with Mo at the top, reporting to the owner. TLR has a close relationship to DeWitt and that makes the roster situation cloudy at best. I think that DeWitt should enforce a chain of command ending with the GM, but won’t do so until after TLR leaves.
And to make more money I must get back to work.
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
what the kids are saying
- BJRains Cards manager Tony La Russa will meet the media at 7:30 p.m. tonight for “an informal Q & A session” at Busch Stadium. #itswhathereleasesays 11 minutes ago via web
- JohnMarecek Unconfirmed reports suggest “informal Q&A” w/ TLR is pot luck / BYOB #stlcards 4 minutes ago via TweetDeck
- BJRains @JohnMarecek I heard @DavidMWilhelm makes a great bean dip. 3 minutes ago via web in reply to JohnMarecek
That gives Strauss about 4 hours…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
all right, VEB! I'm sure Goold is reading right now as he contemplates writing a pop-up book of stats and anecdotes
What shall we ask TLR?
And who will die?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
What percentage of Hollidome's body is actually metal?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
1% less than the major league allowed maximum.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
i think we have discussed this
Matt is literally a lego and someone said “have u ever tried to actually break a lego” (one of my favorite posts ever btw)….not sure who said this but take ur credit
also y2s stated he was some type of carbon fiber plated material
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
His head,
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
more evidence
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
need to superimpose
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
pshop and I don't get along.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
make someone do it
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Get on it Cody.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
we should ask...
who he plans on trading Colby for?
Ask where the new Bullpen coach is coming from, and maybe ask about the importance of locking up Pujols this winter.
Also, whoever eats what Strauss brings.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I refuse to believe
that Strauss would bring anything.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
straussie
shows up with plastic knives, all stolen from the Cardinals press box last year…
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
ok, you're right
whoever eats that would die.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
they're about to leave for this shindig
last chance to make your bets
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the cubs are such copycats
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
in case you're not watching the postseason
don’t miss this:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12857151
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So sorry Ryne,
Also, I like how Rosenthal sourced himself in the story.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
always knew he was a perv
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Would that be a form of narcissism?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 19, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm going to be ill
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This is a bad PR move. . .
but who is to say that it is a bad baseball move.
Ryne Sandberg is less proven than this guy that the Cubs just hired.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 19, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure that's entirely true
Wasn’t this year Quade’s managerial debut in MLB? He and Ryno have mostly just managed in the minors. Ah well. I’m sure the cubs know what they’re doing…
Sandberg's only been a full time coach starting in the 2007 season
Quade has been coaching since 1985 and has over 1,000 wins as a minor league manager.
haha i'm sorry but
Ah well. I’m sure the cubs know what they’re doing…
reallly? do they really know what they are doing? I’d like to think yes but then I have to go back to the Soriano, Zambrano, Fukudome, Ramirez contracts and then i don’t know what to think….
by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 19, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
sarchasm.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
my sarchasm meter failed clearly
but uh… still to assume an MLB franchise knows what they are doing isn’t that much of a stretch even for the Cubs
by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 20, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
What Yadi said
Hence my “…” trailing off into the sunset.
The Cubbies wrote the college textbook for boneheaded decisions.
its not there
fault soriano didnt play to his potential
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
add to that...
they’ve known what they’re doing for at least 100 years.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
So potential DD reclamation projects for the pen
how do Tankersley and Denny Bautista strike you?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
K-Rod?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
A very interesting Idea if DD could trim that BB rate he would be unstoppable
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Query: is anyone actually rooting for the Phillies?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I am rooting for their players
but not their team. or anyone else who looks like a Phillie. or their mom.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
im the same way oddly enough
I like a lot of their players, but I just dont like that team
by jealousblues on Oct 19, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
the fans really ruin it for everyone
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
i little bit more after they swept the reds
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I am.
After ’87 and ’02, I could never cheer for the Giants.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hmmm. acceptable answer.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I don't want to know that he's called "Big Daddy Cain"
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
another query: which is "better for baseball":
Giants-Rangers because its two totally different teams who haven’t been the WS for quite awhile
OR
Yankees-Phillies because they have bigger fan bases and will keep more people interested in the series?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Best for baseball:
NYY vs. SF. Large east coast media market and most well-known franchise vs. large west coast media market and well-known franchise.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm excited for that time zone schedule.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
when does daylight savings time happen anyway? we don't play that way in AZ
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
we're in it right now.
we’ve been speaking to you from another dimension this whole time.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
mind=blown
but also you are wrong. its 330 in STL right now, 130 in PHX. soon it will be 230/130
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
no, really
DST is for summer. not winter. you’re talking about when it ends.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
dammit sbn
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
damn, i don't know anything. when it comes to daylight savings time, us arizonans are really.... in the dark....
YYYEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHH
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
i hate waking up and it's dark outside
so much harder to get out of bed.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
The worst is when you wake up and it is dark. Then, it is dark when you drive home from work.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this is my whole life, daylight savings time or not.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I usually go home and then come back after dark.
But I don’t bill by the hour.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i hate the winter
no baseball no sun make evilfrog go something something.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I LOOOOVE the Winter!
No ticks, mosquitoes, or flies to get my tail twitching!
;=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
The hell you do.
You’re stuck eating hay and standing in the driving snow all winter. Trust me, you like the summer way better.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
This....my internal clock is all fucked up....
Try moving north…..it’s dark till damn near 8AM, and gets dark again by 7. I feel like it’s time for bed at about 8:00 anymore.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
noooooooooooo
we’re dooooomeedddd
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Why does Matt Cain look like he's hoping Michael Cera plays him in the movie?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Christian Bale for Cole Hamels?
I can’t really think of anyone that pale.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the kid from the sixth sense for buster posey
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
is that kid sober?
/saying ‘kid’ just so you don’t feel old
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Homer Bailey looks EXACTLY like Christian Bale
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
oh yeah
my bad
so who’s playing Cole?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
luke wilson?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
that's pretty good
that Josh guy doesn’t have the vacant look, though.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Discovery article about why people suck at hitting curveballs
Link fail.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
clearly it's a chart of whether TLR's eccentricities are acceptable.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
FFS
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the hell, cody
it’s not daylight savings midnight
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that will just fester and carry over to next season
or some kind of long-term contract for Aaron Miles.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Azru has no one to blame for this but himself........
in bed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
16,000 Diamondbacks Fans Killed On Complimentary Rattlesnake Night
Crazy mo’fucking snakes, in my mo’fucking Arizona.
VEB's only queer since '09
can you two get a room
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
with a gif I made
twist the knife, wouldja
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
wow
nice editing….terrible pic of oilspill
we are missing the bear and the nose candy
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I await a long explanation from VEP where I don't understand what he just said.
by CodyG on Oct 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
are we legally allowed to explain porn to you?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Joe Buck admits that the pitcher is waiting on him to finish reading the lineup.
Moments later, he is defenestrated by Chris Carpenter.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
If the Phillies suddenly lose the ability to hit, this could be the longest baseball game ever
VEB's only queer since '09
Gaints have the best pitching staff in baseball
Though the Phillies might have the better top three.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
links!
players REALLY EXCITED about Tony’s return
Insinu-Rains askin’ the leading questions again
Also, does Tony just want a road trip in his movie? eww.
Goold weighs in on the whole pitchers in the postseason thing we’ve been tossing around lately
Gibson, Lee, Timmeh, oh my
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
a meme is born
Bill James has an app for that.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
"Not the face!"
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
If Sabathia gets 23m a year in NY. (7 years, 163 million)
Lee will at least be in the ballpark.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
am I the only one
that thinks that the Yankees don’t have unlimited extra payroll space for another contract like this?
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
you haven't heard their plan to use the human energy of Manhattan to generate unlimited power for their reality-immersive construct of YES
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
They've gotta be pushing how far they can go.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You might find this article interesting
It explains how much the Yankees are worth (back in 2008). A few highlights:
-Forbes says the team is worth about $1.3 billion
-Team revenue was around $327 million
-The Yankees revenue was expected to double with the YES Network and new stadium
Their payroll isn’t unlimited, but…
Click for Full Article
that's what i'm talking about
jeter is going to sign some 2/32 contract this offseason
lee ain’t gonna be a yankee
by YesWeOquendo on Oct 19, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Rangers have a legit shot to keep him.
But they also have to keep in mind that they will have to pay Josh Hamilton a lot of money in the near future. I think that Lee will end up with a 6 year/115m contract from the Rangers personally, near what Johan Santana and Sabathia make.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
The Rangers just got a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE TV deal
And they’re also generating a lot of revenue from the playoffs, with the bulk of that money going into the baseball budget… I think they’ll be able to increase their budget. I agree that they’ll try to keep Lee
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
what freakin genius scheduled an LCS game at 3 pm on a Tuesday?
if anyone still wants to watch it
ST streams
in-browser feed
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
There are always people pushing for day games in the playoffs/world series
I think the argument is that it makes it more accessible for kids and is better than the late night games.
George Carlin....something something.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
maaaan Cody Ross wears a LOT of eyeblack
A LOT
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
jesus christ on a shishkabob
i am really really sick of hearing about Tony LaRussa
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Giants up 1-0
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
dayyumm, Cody Ross.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Cody Ross is going to get the Yadi treatment in SF
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you are done aaron miles!
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
but he can hit the ball out of the infield
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
giants will sign him no doubt
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 5:34 PM EDT reply actions
alright giants! 2-0
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Bruce Bochey is pulling a LaRussa
he may act like a moron all year long but come playoff time, he finally gets his lineup right, sits back and lets his team play.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
really ? is that what La Russa does?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I can only assume
since the last time we were in the playoffs for more than 20 minutes, that’s what happened.
Right?
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember So Taguchi and Speez getting a good chunk of playing time.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I remember Speez
being a better option than Rolen at the time. Also kinda kicked off that whole thingie we talked about up top.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I remember Speez hitting a couple of game tying/winning triples that were awesome
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I have a dim memory of the playoffs .......yeah i guess he did let'um play
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions
Top of the 5th, 2 run lead
too early to defensive replacement for Pat Burrell?
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2010 5:41 PM EDT reply actions
so much for my DVR!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're worried about spoilers
for the game going on, this is the wrong place to be. I’m actually shocked that there isn’t a live blog going on for those of us not watching.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
we suck at liveblogging
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You're telling me....is it still 2-0?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
there's another run somewhere in there
some guy with a lot of hairgel un-earned it for them
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I love how ESPN Gametracker
Has SF as projected to win by 81%, despite the Phillies having four more innings to play and only a two-run deficit.
Math is fun.
Same with FanGraphs
Though they probably use similar systems
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
that guy at second base is having a bad day
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that's what happens when cody ross steals all the eyeblack in both clubhouses
to put on his face
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
mabe chase should put his sunglasses on instead of parking them on his hat
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 5:56 PM EDT reply actions
Heres a pretty good fanpost on minorleagueball about our prospects
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/10/18/1759867/my-cardinals-top-26-prospects
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
That's great, thank you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
who the hell is oscar tavares?
4th best prospect that i’ve never even heard of…other names that don’t ring a bell to me are nick longmire, audry perez, and Cody Stanley….
by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 20, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
this is definitely the list of a guy who prefers
Ceiling/potential over achievement. There’s not a right way or a wrong way to do it, it’s just a particular take on it.
That said, I’m having trouble grasping this matt carpenter ranking . . . .
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Oct 20, 2010 1:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, he's easily in the top 10 for me
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Maybe you should pay more attention to the minor leagues?
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
NO, KEN ROSENTHAL. WE DON'T GOT YOU.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
why are we getting what sounds like the births/weddings/anniversaries/obits?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
cause thats what old people talk about
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions
Last offseason when I was driving a cab I picked up Cody Ross' Brother
Steven he fronts a rock band here, all he talked about was how much Cody wanted out of the cheap ass Florida franchise.That and he said Giambi was a great guy to party with, Holliday was too straight of an arrow for his taste, and that Cody wanted to play for STL or the Cubs
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
really?
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
We could have Cody Ross and Colby Rasmus in the outfield
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
he's a utility infielder
also he sucks in an Aaron Miles-like fashion
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Does he match Miles' grit factor?
Baseball makes the world go 'round, or at least in my world it does.
by Whiteyballer on Oct 20, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah he said he had played in the Midwest in the minors and. enjoyed it.
they are from a town about 4 hours from Denver and he said the Rockies are someone he would have liked too, but they are not well known for bringing in FA talent. Mostly he hated having to fight with management for every dime, that they had traded Miggy and the Marlins seemed to constantly be in rebuilding mode. He seems to be really being enjoying his time in SF though although they already have Torres Rowand locked up there and Brandon Belt is making a push to the majors
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
pass
I would have loved Cody Ross when he was underrated, but now it looks like he might be overrated this offseason
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
probably will but his similarity score is closest to Thudwick just a thought
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
meh - if i were the giants' gm, i wouldn't
Think rowand was likely to do much for me in 2011.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Oct 20, 2010 12:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Holliday really was destined to play with Albert.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I hope we haven't seen
the best of Holliday-Pujols yet.
Ruth-Gehrig
Mantle-Maris
McGwire-Conseco
That’s what I want to see just once from Matt & Albert.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
they both put up phenomenal years
but hopefully theres more to come
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
I'm hoping for 40 & 40
but that may be unrealistic, maybe.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
more like 45 and 35 both with 300+/400+/525+ lines
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I want a HR battle...
in the 40 range. It’s possible. Damn, that’d be fun!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, Holliday isn't that type of hitter =/
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
high hopes
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Oct 19, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
he has had a 12HR month in his career so he could hit 40
if his May this year had looked like the rest of his months he would have topped 30 easily
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
yea, I know.
truthfully, I’d be surprised if anybody we have reaches 40 other than Albert, but if anybody did I think it would be Holliday. It would be tough to get 30 for anybody that’s not penciled in everyday. Craig would have to catch fire early in the season in order to secure a spot that he has to be pried out of.
Based on this season, the way all the platooning went, I don’t see anybody playing enough to rack up 30-35 other than Albert and Matt.
I guess maybe Colby could have a break-out year but there’s just something not right about Colby, be it LaRussa or something else, and Craig has only shown flashes against major league pitching so far.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens next year.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
she's the sister with the dead eyes.
too creepy.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yes, but Emily Deschanel is about as exciting as wheat toast.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
in bed?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I had wheat toast with strawberry jelly this morning,
and I found it riveting.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
whole wheat?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
cracked.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oh shit!
got me all excited
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
i just looked at cain's pitch count - not a very good ball to strike ratio
for those that have been watching – (i’m only listening) is he getting squeezed or just lucky? i’m surprised that the phillies lineup has allowed him to throw so many out of the zone
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I'll show you a good ball to strike ratio
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Dunno, but he's hit 2 guys, given up 2 hits and walked 3
allow one baserunner an inning and the pitch count goes way up
VEB's only queer since '09
Ok it's Blackbeard and the Giants are winning
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
beard against beard
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
werth has a wimpy beard
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
Chase Utley's wife disagrees.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
she has never met Wilson I bet
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
Wilson can tell balls apart by smell.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He's channelling his inner Motte?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I think Motte talks to them and they talk back.
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
Motte smells his glove
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
There's been no joke about this post yet?!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
In bed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
gints win
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
for the record, that's Song 2 in techno
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so THAT'S what that was... geez.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I just read your new tag line.
You are an unusual person
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
Well do something about that
or are you out of liquor? The stores should still be open
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
tomorrow is my birthday
you can get drunk in my honor
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
I saw that tuna was 69 cents a can,
decided that was a good enough reason to get drunk.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
yes, that's an even better reason
It happens more than once a year.
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
what did I tell you guys about celebrations
you don’t need a special reason to pop one open
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Friday the 13th fell on a Wednesday this month...
So I celebrated that!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I get to celebrate most months that way.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Matt Cain has clown hair!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
well I was thinking he doesn't look like a ballplayer
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
he's *clearly* angling for a Head and Shoulders ad campaign
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Matt Cain's hair just got 10x bigger
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Fox casters having to dodge flying debris
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by the way
every time Fox plays the handegg music during the MLB playoffs, a puppy dies.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
OT: College Gameday is coming to MU this weekend. My friends want sign ideas.
Here’s what I’ve thought up in the last couple minutes:
Bob Stoops? More like Bob Poops!
Oklahoma Smells Like Farts!
Hey Corso! Show Me Your Torso!
CHOKElahoma
JOKElahoma
Lou Holtz Has Lost His Mind!
Any ideas would be welcome
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Q: What does a OU graduate and a tornado have in common?
A. They both will end up in a trailer park
h/t The Dude
Fire La Russa!
I like the first one
Ohhh man, I remember when USC was relevant =(
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Chris Gaines Is From Oklahoma Too!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
go easy on us?
no…it will be a good game….espn @ 7pm right?
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't spell "Take It Easy On Us!" without OU!
It’s unfortunate MU will get beat at homecoming.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
You can't spell "C_ck S_cker" without OU
I stole that from the internet.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
well time for the yanks game
i caught the end of the giants game……i had no time for the day game…thats bullshit scheduling!
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 8:01 PM EDT reply actions
Tommy Hunter...Karate Master
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Interference?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Sure looked like he had a chance at it.
Why no review?
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems like the perfect time for it
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Oh, it's the Yankees.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
why have it if you're not going to use it?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
ohhhhh so NOW you won't review it
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
OK, that's legit.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:38 PM EDT reply actions
Or did it hook foul?
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You've got to be kidding me.
foul
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
there goes Fat Elvis
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that looks pretty foul. sorry Fat Elvis.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
If review is for boundary calls, then why are judgement calls allowed?
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
poopy pants
that’s why
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
FOUL BALL!!
If this isn’t reversed… I’m calling foul!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
you may need new material.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
whatever that's a knee slapper!
A real belly acher!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
shenanigans...you want to call shenanigans
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
holy hell berkman smoked that ball
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
you know, I kind of hate that boundary calls depend on the Guys in the Truck and all their minions. there's really no robot cameradudes
coughludwick’sdoublecough
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that was the Guys in the Blimp's fault.
Just a dumb idea all around.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Hey, they got it right.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:41 PM EDT reply actions
...........IT'S ONLY THE SECOND INNING?
aaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
AL'd
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
AL games suck.
The most interesting thing of this series has been the umps.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
game 1 HP ump
was excellent….game 2 was bad
1 for 2 again ……..if im remembering the correct series…they all run together sometimes
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Poz
Ump was right. Rulebook: No interference shall be allowed when fielder reaches over a fence … to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
clearly outfielders need poisoned spikes on their gloves
that’ll teach those bums.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
serious question
what about in play interfernce…i believe they said bartman reached in play…i think that was in the play of field
whats the ruling is it an automatic out or what?
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
pics of Tony choosing who dies!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I vote the guy to his left
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Gríma son of Gálmód
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
No no no... Our right, his left
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
helpful illustration
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
bite your tongue
that’s Hummel.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
see, you can tell it's Hummel,
because he didn’t shoot a guy in the face.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
and he doesn't run on batteries.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 19, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look close enough,
you can see Strauss’ ass on his head.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I should note that judging from Goold's twitter
he wasn’t there
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so.... why doesn't anyone mount a camera on top of the foul poles?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Mama's gonna kill someone, I guess.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
a summary
andrewdmoses TLR reiterates that Duncan will want a multi-year deal. Also says McGwire is very busy with the kids, going to be a tough decision for him. 6 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
is that a polite way to say that DD's sorta pissed?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
pissed in what sense?
Dunc’s said three years for a while
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I know, but I wonder
if it wasn’t reiterated because of Mason being let go.
/just stirring the pot.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I think andrewmoses was going for more of an "old man is redundant" vibe
which is poor tweeting — repeating probably has fewer characters
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He's young, yeah? Intern for KTRS or something?
Pretty sweet gig
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
continued
FSM sounds hungry.
- Fox_Sports_MW “There will be more intense scrutiny” on baserunning-tony on changes 8 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
- Fox_Sports_MW Tony continues to speak to media at this hour 12 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
- Fox_Sports_MW Dave McKay’s three grandchildren on the West Coast also could be a factor for Dave coming back, Tony says. 13 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I don't understand what this means
http://twitter.com/Fox_Sports_MW/status/27886408211
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I still find it odd,
that a guy who’s spent his entire career with this franchise, get’s told to go piss up a rope. If it was about giving somebody a chance, perhaps Mason could have had another role? I dunno, but it’s all a little strange.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Most juicy speculation is that it was him who leaked the Colby trade thing, yeah?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Actually he threatened to disclose what Motte says to the glove.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
That's just VEB gone wild......
I haven’t even seen Gordon print that.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Also, who will give the back rubs?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'll do it
they don’t even have to pay me
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
are they really chanting 'AJ'?
they’re being supportive? wow
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It's helping hands night at the park.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
Wow, nice play Tex.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 8:56 PM EDT reply actions
AHAHAHAHAHA A-ROD
BENGIE MADE IT HOME
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
what the hell, Hambone.
he had a play.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
young
gets it out of his baseball glove quickly on that play
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 9:05 PM EDT reply actions
You are all now manually remembering how terrible Granderson looked against curveballs in 2005
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Lietch cracks me up.
This inning is the final proof that every Major League Baseball game needs four right field umpires, all of whom are robots.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'm sure tex is a good dude, but most of the time he looks like a worried gorilla.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
What a bunch of asshat
home fans. Bartman strikes again.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
but that souvenir ball
is like two months’ rent
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's only because the RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/19/the-rent-is-too-damn-high-jimmy-mcmillan_n_768140.html
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
The rent is too damn high!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Yeah I thought so too..
I’m sure it will be, although it shouldn’t be.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I support this man for NY governor
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
even smoltz knows burnett has a shitty fastball
based on his comments “somehow…he needs to be effective with his fastball”
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 9:19 PM EDT reply actions
In general, I think the Hunter kid got hosed
by the plate ump. Thus he had to come in with more hittable strikes. Burnett got better calls.
Interview with
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
That's actually a very good interview
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
its sort of weird to hear his voice.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
In Yankees pinstripes, Berkman reminds me of Spanky McFarland.
Just me? OK.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 9:40 PM EDT reply actions
that's so sad
JohnMarecek Sounds like I was the only alleged media member not in attendance for tonight’s TLR fireside chat #stlcards 9 minutes ago via TweetDeck
BJ Rains was there….
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
was Maracek accused
of #poaching as well? I didn’t pick that one up. I thought it was all BJ.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
nice, Elvis
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Great play Andrus.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
HAHAHAHA
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Smoltz says they'll be billing the yankees
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yea
no way gardner has to pay for that
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Camera down! Camera down!
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 9:48 PM EDT reply actions
CAMERA DOWN!!!! CAMERA DOWN!!!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
that's a fantastic shot!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Welcome to avant garde baseball.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 9:49 PM EDT reply actions
call Boog and Bombs!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
can't he just break the rest of the lens?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Darling went to the Joe Morgan school of color commentating
belabor the obvious, and ignore the fact that a viewer can SEE what happened too
i like darling
tv guys are kinda stuck because they probably are forced to describe despite us being able to see the obv
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Asshat fans strike again.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
yankee luck vs cub non luck
o well……anytime im at a game that is always in my mind…does anyone learn!
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
although
gardner didnt go all psycho and explode like alou did
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Texira down!!!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
with a hammy of some sort.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oooh could we see Lance in there?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
oooh they're scared of pitchers hitting?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
They should have pinch run with a pitcher,
move Lance to first, and manage the rest of the game like they were an NL team.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
this is why Albert doesn't leg it to first all the time.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Just for some closure
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
...
“I appreciated the opportunity to come back,” La Russa said Tuesday evening. “You start thinking about goals. I came up with some goals, very specific ones. One of my goals is to have the media feel like I’m more lovable.”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
(and of course)
He described himself as “feeling full of (cayenne) and vinegar” for the coming season.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
by the way, friends
if you’re pissing cayenne, see a doctor.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I assume that
cats will be involved.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
then he went to dinner with Red.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
does mutual option
mean either party can trigger it, or do we have to go through this shit again?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Both have to trigger the option
the terms are set so there isn’t bickering about dollars. The contract usually has language specifying that the option has to be triggered x days (less than 10 hopefully) after the conclusion of the cards season.
is there a duel? and a quest?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
"I'm not lovable?"
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
yes.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
what happened to teixeira?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
hammy hustling to first
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
who's gonna make mindblowing picks in the dirt?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Nick Swisher.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
did you also miss the camera being taken out and the multiple Bartmans?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
pulled up short
with a hammy legging out a single.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
fyp
with a hammy legging out a single. a fielders choice on the back end of a double play
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
ya, that.
legging out something or other.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
so this is how 1000 Ways to Die never runs out of material
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Same here
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_britain_segway_death
BTW… how do i post links in such a way as your “P-D” above?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
you click
, then paste the link exactly like that. click “new”, too, if you want to be nice.
don’t ask about the other button. we don’t talk about that one.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Type whatever word you like.....
I’ll use linki. Highlight your word, linki, and then click and paste your link.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
use the chain button
first capture your link address, then highlight the words you want to use for the link, hit the chain link icon next to the tree icon and paste the web address. And check the use new window box too
oh yes...pro tip...
click the open in new box.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
THANKS YA'LL
VEB is so helpful.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
in bed
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
that's probably the only thing that VEB can't provide
Disclaimer: I do NOT want VEB to start providing it
by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 20, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
You've never been around for dating advice nights?
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
THAT'S WHAT WE DO IN TEXAS
WE GO FIRST TO SECOND
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
head first?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
only in bed
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
of course, of course
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
BENGIE!!!!!!!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's how Molina's roll.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I always pictured it differently.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if Yadi is there?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
he's got the two kids
he’s probably home in the PR
it’s Bengie who stays stateside.
I’m not sure what Jose, the quiet one, does.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
BENGIE!!!!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
BEST TIMING OF A MONTAGE EVER
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
More Molinas!
They’re still out there.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 10:33 PM EDT reply actions
damn i missed it
did a molina drive in a run?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
ginormous 3-run homer.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
hell yeah!
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
bout to be some grilled chicken strip sammich up in this piece
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
damn, at this rate
Yadi best get himself another ring
gotta keep up with the bros!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
there's derek!
i thought they were gonna have a dugout shot with no shot of jeter
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
bahaha
sad arod is sad
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
someone
needs to keep that pic for future reference
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
and gif
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
even better than Sad Catcher.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if d-dee got it?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
check out sager's velvet
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
A buddy of mine had a car with upholstery like that.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
why is there a big empty space
where the douchebags who interfered were setting?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
they were sold to pay for ARod.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
whats the going rate for 3 douchebags now??
I thought they had negative value?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
their apartments will be sold too.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
dang.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Only Hugh Hefner could pull off that jacket,
and you Craig, are no Hugh Hefner.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
for posterity
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
they'll have to play the 8th and 9th as well
could roll over into tomorrow
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
The Yankees best case scenario is that they have to BEAT Cliff Lee in Game 7
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
quotables
BJRains Tony La Russa: “I’ve gotten some texts from players that cemented what I felt like when I first got home. The players have been very good.” 4 minutes ago via
then he gave them biscuits
miklasz @JohnMarecek Hell, 2nite was monthly cigar dinner with da goodfellas. I ain’t giving that up for TLR. Been listening to him for 15 yrs, LOL. 13 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter in reply to JohnMarecek
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
New tricks can be fun!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
So, I go to HEB
and I miss the Molina effect.
Although, I loved the replay showing ARod’s self-gratification disgust.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
your texas is showing
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
HEB is good times?
i guess. . .
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's been 20 years...
…so more nostalgia than anything.
I also have fond memories of Nuevo Laredo and can’t wait to go back and spend a few evenings there drinking tequila and eating on the street.
I just sang a sad trombone
hahha
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That one didn't need any help.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 10:50 PM EDT reply actions
just some guy who used to be a cub.
for like, ten minutes.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
MLB.tv just cut out
i guess they decided if the yankees are losing no one wants to watch?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Pitching change
The Yankees decided Logan wasn’t doing well.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
announcers were too despondent to inform the viewers, i guess
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, i guess there was actually a commercial break
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
confession
even though this thread is slow to load, i refresh it to see how many “in bed”s get recs
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Welcome to the game, Joba.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 10:54 PM EDT reply actions
Le joba no botha.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
this picture brings back memories.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
bigger hair when cap is off
Elvis or Cain?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Andrus hasn't had a haircut since the season started, so I'll pick him.
He’s got anti-Rasmus hair.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
forgot which dugout to throw the bat to?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Yankees won't sniff the playoffs next year...
even with Crawford and Lee. They’ll have about $120 million worth of totally crap players.
Fire La Russa!
they'll sign beltre, too
need some pop off the bench
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
there at $144.6 mm before
signing Jeter ($22.6mm) or Rivera ($15mm) and having Pettite ($11.75mm) retire.
I have a feeling...
one of Tex, Sabathia, or ARod is going to be completely washed up in less than two years. That would really kill them.
Fire La Russa!
Watching ARod throw is odd.
Seems like every throw he’s making barely gets there.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
its because he's only thinking of how he looks throwing it , its all theatre
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He is going to be 36 next year...
and he has $174 million left on his contract… Seems like a slight overpay.
Fire La Russa!
ya it is
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
On a similar subject
Watching this game, it felt like Rodriguez and Jeter were both a touch slow getting to a lot of balls. I’m too lazy to go look up their UZR for this year, but one wonders.
AJ has three more seasons too
$16.5 mm each. What I’d love to see is the elimination of the DH. Yanks are counting on that position for A Rod.
Is this the part where the stadium empties out?
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 10:58 PM EDT reply actions
watchoo mean, 'got'
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
3 hours ... and 6 1/2 innings
Fast AL game
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
3 hours in and just to the 7th inning stretch
FFS AL baseball is too long.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Dude is singing the whole song?
Yep, speed of the game is important.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
note to nyy
don’t play with strangers
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
bout to pull the trigger on this monitor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254048
got a coupon code making it $179 shipped. 25", 2ms, 1080p, HDMI, 15000:1
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
That looks sweet...
I’m about to pull the trigger on Brinner.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
bacon?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 19, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, pork sausage...
I had to eat it before it went bad. My bacon is frozen and safe.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
HILLBILLY KUNG FU!!!!!! :=8D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuigcXvcy1A
Ninjy chop!
Judy chop!
:=8D
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
Too busy listening to Homer and Jethro songs on YouTube.
“He didn’t like her apartment, so he knocked her flat.”
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The Wonder Woman outfit makes it.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Don't be tryin this on your kids or your dogs, mmkay.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
wow just heard about the intentions of the guy who ran
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 11:22 PM EDT reply actions
Grim LaRogue?
Sounds like a character from an especially bad fanfic.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, it really couldn't be scripted any better.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
So Girardi went with Cervelli to give Posada a rest...
and now that they have a 5% we Posada is back in…
Fire La Russa!
what are you talking about
don’t you know about the AJ-Posada feud? because Posada sucks so bad as a catcher?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah..
but Girardi swore it was for rest. I know he’s BSing us, but still. The Yanks can’t score and Cervelli sucks monstrously.
Fire La Russa!
Actually, they are both pretty awful.
Cervelli is at least cheap and young while being awful.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Game Five batting practice
will take place one hour after the conclusion of this game.
by ubeddie on Oct 19, 2010 11:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
so what do yanks fans complain about in the offseason?
why do we spend 80 mil on burnett?
by guillermozeliak on Oct 19, 2010 11:28 PM EDT reply actions
Why won't Cliff Lee take our $160 million?
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
What is the cut-off for 2010 memes?
Last day of the postseason? First of the year? First day of ST?
I ask because I’m just getting the hang of some of the new memes and don’t want to use them beyond their expiration date?
Memes never die
They just get archived in Y2S’s sub-basement.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
not true. i remember being told i wasn't allowed to use 6ly anymore.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
6ly?
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
in soviet veb, the posts meme YOU
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Azru we'll tell us.....
in bed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Since Azru started that one
it’s his fault if it goes beyond the appointed time.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 19, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
there it is.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
HFS
is Washington reprising game 1? What does it take to get Feliz into a competitive game??
Fire La Russa!
DD and TLR sent him packing years ago.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This is some of the obtuse managing I've ever seen...
If the Yankees come back and the Rangers lose this series, Washington is an all-time goat.
Fire La Russa!
Berkman puts on a yanquis uni
and he looks more cleancut than he ever has.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It's the pinstripes...
if they made the Babe look slim and trim it can work the same with Felvis.
Fire La Russa!
I hear they are slimming.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
so have they thrown the game yet?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Hamilton is a monster.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
And that should send the stadium staff home...
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
ahahaha.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 19, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Hamilton!
IN BED!!!!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
beat down
in bed
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 11:56 PM EDT reply actions
double beat down !!!
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 19, 2010 11:58 PM EDT reply actions
Goodness.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 11:58 PM EDT reply actions
Nolan Ryan is enjoying himself.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 19, 2010 11:59 PM EDT reply actions
Even Andrus' hair is headed for the hotel.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
CRUZ
IN BED!!!!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
swish fall down
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so earlier
was that Elvis teaching Bengie how to dance?
because surely it wasn’t how to run.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
2:30 CST start time tomorrow
I should be able to catch the last 6 innings after I get off work at 530
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
CDT
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I dont use Ds. I don't believe in Daylight Time.
Or… I’m ignorant.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
easily
also why couldnt have hamilton saved one of his HR’s for the yankee bartman incident!!! damn that man!
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I walked up to the room clerk
He looked at me and said
“You can have a room, but you will have to make your bed”
I said “That’s OK, buddy.”
“I learned that from my ma.”
And he reached out and handed me a hammer and a saw…
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 12:05 AM EDT reply actions
homer and jethro?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I haven’t heard this stuff in years.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
his mandolin playing is over the top good !
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Oct 20, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
How much is that houn' down in the winder?
with the basketball nose on its face?
You know what a basketball nose is,
It dribbles all over the place.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Success.
"he and the umpire pitched a no-hitter. He gave him every pitch. Basically, we had no chance." -Orlando Cabrera, whinging eunuch.
by The Continental on Oct 20, 2010 12:13 AM EDT reply actions
did Bengie change equipment?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
anyone else hearing the rally pig?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Just a high pitched tone that made me want
to gouge my ear out, but I wouldn’t describe it as the rally pig.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
the rally pig's microphone.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
So, there'es no Reese's or KitKat's
left in the Halloween candy…the little rats are down to Hershey’s, MilkDud’s, and Whoppers.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
:)
whoppers is just plain mean to the kids
it happens it our house too…..shit gets eaten right away
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
So far, my postseason predictions are looking pretty good
When I made my bracket, I said the Yankees, Rangers, Giants and Philly would advance from the first round. Then I said the Rangers and Giants would go to the WS. Then I said the Giants would win it. I didn’t get the number of games right, but the outcomes are perfect so far.
Proof:
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
you really thought San Fran would sweep?
the only way i could say that is… well me being biased and hating the phillies team
by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 20, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
looking back on it, I'm not sure why I said San Fran would sweep
I guess I saw the Phillies falling apart for some reason
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Oct 20, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
is anyone surprised that TLR is returning?
hope not
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 20, 2010 2:15 AM EDT reply actions
i think it was fitting
that strauss wrote the article…..he’s the gopher…the guy that does the grunt work
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
so Saito to replace Frankie?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
If by Saito you mean Motte then yes
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
So who are the bullpen LHP next year?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Trever and some other cheap lefty? Will Saito be cheap?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Maybe, hard to tell
Joe Beimel was not given a contract untill mid april last year and he only got $850
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
jesus!
can we get this derek holland guy!!!
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
No, my son.
Holland walks with Nolan Freakin’ Ryan.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
pedro! feliciano!
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Oct 20, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
teixeira
done…wow that sucks
side note this game was closer than the score indicated…swisher hit…berkman just foul…8th inning not scoring on bases loaded…michael youngs snab at third…and finally andrus play in the 4th
if Hamilton ties it in the 7th w/ the HR…yankees get the HBP in the 8th…it couldve been a 4-3 win…pretty crazy game
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:36 AM EDT reply actions
Are you related to John Mozeliak?
Are you John Mozeliak?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
what? ur now asking this?
and u do know that guillermo is william
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
but sadly im not :)
and have no connection for u to get a job
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
He's desperate.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
This is not the Mozeliak you are looking for.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
assuming
they dont pitch around Murphy…and molina doesnt jack the HR
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
See, the problem is that you can't think of baseball like that
If a guy gets picked off first and the next guy hits a home run, the announcers always say, “Oh you lost a run”
But that’s not necessarily true because the pitcher changes his approach based on if a man is on base or for a billion other reasons
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
oh...i hate that too
ur example is perfect w/ the pick off
but murphy was an easier out imo
by guillermozeliak on Oct 20, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
So where does Jaivier Vazquez end up?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Somewhere in the NL, that's fo sho
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Meh, Seattle or Oakland seem like decent choices
But I like Washington, or the Mets to give him a shot.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Seattle's rotation is fine
SafeCo suppresses home runs a LOT so we can afford to pick up cheap flyball pitchers and not have to pay a lot of money there
We need o-fence. And badly.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Probably not... he had an okay, not great year between AA and AAA last year. I suppose he's still an upgrade over Jose Lopez
So if he’s non-tendered, then Chone would move back to 3rd and there’d be an opening at 2nd for Ackley
I wouldn’t though. He needs some more time defensively (he’s a converted outfielder), and I think a year of success will be good for him long-run
Smoak will be starting at 1st all year, though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
He didn't start sucking because he went to the AL East
he started sucking because he lost velocity on his fastball.
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
Being in the AL East does compound that issue however.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Bengie really hasn't gotten over the fat kid thing
Why doesn’t he just slim down like Yadi, and steal a few bases.
/insensitive
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
maybe he likes food more than bases.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
"It's not bad for a fat kid that everyone makes fun of when he runs"
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
he just just hit homers
then he can walk around the bases.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
that's what i was thinkin
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So now we have the McGwire watch.
Personally, I hope he decides to stay home with the wife & kids. If he does I’d like to see Larry Walker take his place.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
I've beat this drum before,
but Larry has said numerous times that he
*1. has no desire to.
*2. has no idea how to teach people to hit.
or something like that.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
well, scratch that then. How about Will Clark?
I wouldn’t be opposed to getting Hal McRea back.
Got any suggestions?
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
what's wrong with McGwire?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I personally have no problem with him,
he’s saying he may not return though because of the triplets.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
TRIPLETS
probably all have red hair.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
and arms like Popeye.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't say he's done a good or bad job...
But I’m more old school and have a dislike for the players who cheated with steroids….
(and I don’t want to open that can of worms again). Also, over the years the Cardinals have had a little more class and have parted ways with people for lesser offenses…Keith Hernandez and Scott Spezio come to mind right off.
I’d like to see a return to that philosophy. McGwire is somewhat of a blight that way.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
It just depends on whether you dislike the guy for what he did or not.
I personally don’t blame him, and it’s not like a hitting coach does that much anyway.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Wait, what?
How is snorting coke worse than using steroids?
I can see how one would equate the two (I wouldn’t, but I get why some would), but coke is less offensive than steroids?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 20, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
mmm, methinks someone is not familiar with Speezer's history, at the least
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
wait, what?
do you have this backwards? i hope you are trying to say that snorting coke is much worse than doing steroids.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I'm saying that coke was a lesser offense.
I don’t think it’s a performance enhancer….on a baseball field. Maybe it is for some. But even if coke and steroids are equal (both are illegal) the Cardinals cut ties with the coke offenders.
I’ll admit that Spezio had some other issues and that Lonnie Smith also had a drug problem, but both of them came forward and asked for help…which the team offered. But McGwire didn’t come clean until he wanted to get back into baseball. I don’t think Mac would have ever admitted it unless it was absolutely necessary.
I’d feel a little better about Mac if had come clean earlier, before a job offer.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 20, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
ah, I miss the old amphetamine enhanced days of yore
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 23, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, it was a simpler time.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 23, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind McGwire coming back
I’m glad he had a chance to come clean about the whole steroid stuff. I don’t know if he was a reason for our offensive woes this season. I like McGwire, he’s always seemed like a classy enough guy (outside the steroid thing, let’s not start that), his relationship with the Cardinals has always seemed mutually beneficial. And, it would be a wild story if he got a chance to pitch hit during the playoffs!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
He would rather teach people how to forecheck
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
uh, I think Schlereth just did some homicide on SC
at least, he was fixin’ to when I left the tv.
NFL better watch out.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yeah he is worked up.
I can understand his argument. I’m just not sure it’s the most logical.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
he's perfect for tv, though.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
in any case, he's saying that if the NFL is making money off those hits, they shouldn't take money from the players for those hits.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 20, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that part
there is a lot of work to be done to avoid a lockout for next year. It seems likes a new issue is thrown on the fire every week… Eh, oh well.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
THE RENT"S TOO DAMN HIGH!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
OT:
Mitchell & Ness digs the powder blues
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
check out this chick at the game
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It looks like the bad guy from Rock & Rule
I have never actually seen this movie, anybody know if it is cool?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
a waiting-for
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
soooo....i guess "in bed" is the new TWSS?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
azru started it
hey if i post a non-partisan link about the judiciary, will you protect me, IHB?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ok here I go
Missouri Bar rates their judges here: http://www.mobar.org/data/judges10/index.htm
It’s kind of like reccing them.
rather important this year because they’re recommending not to retain someone.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i will protect you because the judiciary is supposed to be inherently non-political.
……supposed to be……
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Let me know when that kicks in.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It'll kick in right about the time
that we have a sensible interpretation of the interstate commerce clause. So, never ever ever.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Manager input on roster - Orioles viewpoint
this was in today’s Baltimore Sun from Andy MacPhail on Buck Showalter’s input on roster construction
Asked about Showalter’s offseason role, MacPhail said late last month: "Buck will have a lot of say. I always think it’s important for a manager to be involved in the player personnel decisions. Why on earth would you want to make a move where your manager isn’t supportive of it right from the beginning? I think Buck, by virtue of his past, what he’s done, and by the nature of the force of his personality, will probably be more involved than our previous managers, and that’s fine by us."
disappointed
Late to this dance, but I am disappointed that Tony returned. Would have much preferred handing the reins over to Ted Simmons, generally regarded as one of the smartest people managing or not managing in baseball.
I think he would have pitched some of “Tony’s guys” overboard and really connected and developed the younger guys like Rasmus, Jay and Craig.
It’s a shame, because Simba is 64 and if he got a gig would be the oldest rookie manager in the history of baseball. But this is SIMBA we’re talking about here. If anyone could do it, he could.
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