Let's talk about the Cardinals' coaching staff (and how great Andy Pettitte's PED apology must have been)
by DanUpBaby on Oct 18, 2010 6:01 AM EDT
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PrintI got back late Sunday night from a wedding, during which I didn't behave nearly irresponsibly enough to really earn this day off. That said—this morning I am as exhausted as the current Cardinals news cycle. Tony La Russa: He might be the Cardinals manager, but then, he might not be.
In addition to the Rangers-Yankees game, this might be worth discussing—lost in the talk about La Russa being all but a sure thing is this particularly Straussian blurb from the article itself:
Still unclear is whether La Russa will retain his entire coaching staff, which has received significant front-office scrutiny long before the team concluded its 86-76 second-place season.
This could well be a Full-Unicorn item—the recasting of a long-term trend as a hot-button issue—but it's interesting to think about; La Russa certainly has a lot to do with the tone of the clubhouse, and the way in which it operates, but is his influence so strong that any coaching changes would be irrelevant to the makeup of the team?
Also, does this mean Mark McGwire won't pinch hit next September?
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I have had enough of this quantum-entangled baseball.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
d-dee's candidate for movie poster
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Not just ANY coaching change
but yeah, many coaching changes would probably be “irrelevant to the makeup of the team.” It would not be “irrelevant” if Duncan left. It might not be if Oquendo left. But I don’t think changes to the other coaches would change the “makeup” much.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
I think the baserunning mishaps probably are the main cause of the front-office scrutiny.
If the coaches can’t communicate the fundamentals, then they are not doing something right…
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
also, George Kissell's ghost showed up nightly to rip them a new one
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ummmm, well
communicate is one thing, but in TLR’s caste system
certain folks get to do pretty much what they want
including not running to first, or running bases expeditiously
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
We musn't do that...
No one has ever managed so brilliantly as the great Tony LaRussa! No other manager could have made the playoffs with the early-00’s Cardinals rosters!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 18, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
that seems like a pretty good mooooooooooove...
(copyright of The MooCow)
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
As much as I like cows,
I’m not replacing Duncan and Mason with cows, sorry Cow.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't care who goes
as long as Duncan stays
If knowledge is the key, then just show me the lock.
Got the scrawny legs but I move just like Lou Brock.
by purple_haze on Oct 18, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't need any of this...
And that’s the only thing I need is this. I don’t need this or this. Just this ashtray… And this paddle game. The ashtray and the paddle game and that’s all I need… And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that’s all I need… And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control, and the paddle ball… And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that’s all I need. And that’s all I need too. I don’t need one other thing, not one… I need this. The paddle game and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches for sure. Well what are you looking at? What do you think I’m some kind of a jerk or something! And this. That’s all I need.
[walking outside]
by thepainguy on Oct 18, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
is that like seperating the shit from the shinola?
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Oct 18, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt they would target McGwire.
It was a good pitching season across baseball. Offense was down nearly across-the-board. And, the most glaring underperformers seem to have had a healthy does of bad luck. Even Brendan Ryan’s season was unlucky, even if it would have been terrible with average luck. I think we need to perhaps accept the reality that Brendan Ryan is just not very good at all at hitting a pitched baseball.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
fun fact
Brendan Ryan used to get by … with his offense.
If he gets it right from the neck up, we might yet be surprised.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
i also have not given up on Boog as a passable offensive shortstop
he did have wrist surgery pretty close to the season.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I'm blaming that surgery for a good bit of it.
Mostly cuz I’m hoping that Boog isn’t as abysmal next year.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm blaming the shortened spring training after the surgery
it just set off the long slide, and he never really righted it till into the second half.
(I also blame the umpires in the Philly series.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh! the hope of the offseason.
Even somewhere in between this year and ’09 will do it for me. And a season-long Boog/Bombs Show! That would probably raise WAR by around .05, right?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
[weep] we should have known...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that the thread that the whole "hitting dingerz' came from or was that from before?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
dingers pre-date McGwire, I believe
the memes married pretty quickly
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It was the marriage of Mac talking about hitting dingers that I was getting at.
Like the post right after he was hired was the tongue in cheek of him talking about hitting dingers and how important they were. Funny shit right there.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
i always thought the dingers thing was from ten years ago
never was good at the maths…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
it may have been.
I can’t keep this shit straight. My wife’s pregnancy-brain must be seeping into me.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Seattle!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
RR to the rescue.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a rough year.
Not just the team performance, but the whole Josh Lueke deal as well
That said, he’s completely revamped the minor league system and the future looks really really bright. Guys like Pineda, Smoak, Ackley, Nick Franklin, etc.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
if that's your definition of 'big'...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The short ST may have had a bit to do with it,
but almost nobody that has wrist surgery does worth a damn for at least half a season. Like when DLee or Big Papi had theirs, and they didn’t have theirs right before ST, it took them quite a while to get even close to normal and they are much better hitters than Boog.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
someone's told Brendan this, right?
can we send him a telegram?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
orlando cabrera is that you?
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
hey now, low blow
don’t you remember what happened? Ryan was safe to the bag twice, and called out both times. One would’ve been a triple.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
a stand up triple.
the bottom dropped out soon after.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Just my opinion
I don’t think you replace members of the coaching staff before you identify why the team has failed to make the playoffs. It’s a little like a captain forcing his first-mate to walk the plank, just because the ship was struck by a whale…
whales...
the secret bastards of the sea.
Also… it looks like this NLCS might be pretty competitive
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
we know why the team didn't make the playoffs
- cause that guy holliday can’t hit with risp, just cut him
- that dude pujols can’t hit some lousy 50 home runs like bautista,
- some guy named ludriguez didn’t want to stay and play with us
- and we keep starting that kid named after a cheese all the freakin time. i mean come on, how good can someone be if he was named after a cheese?
- and that judge? what is a judge doing on a baseball field? if you’ll play him at least give him a hammer to hit with, he might feel more comfortable and actually make contact for a change
- and besides, runs scored on dingers are worth less than regular runs blooped in by our most consistent producer and stellar diverse infielder aaron miles – heeeeello! duh!
- and i mean, running the bases perfectly can only go so far, right?
- also, our manager just alienated everyone, cause he insisted on playing the guys with the best avg, which is really a no brainer, i don’t know what everyone is complaining about.
- and the guy just would not change the lineup no matter the circumstances. he found what worked and didn’t change it – he’s consistent like that.
- and you know, there’s only so much we could have done – the competition was ridiculously awesome – that guy bud norris is a killer. you also face the pirates – they are not called that for no reason!
so yeah, we know exactly who to blame
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
by d-dee on Oct 18, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
can you believe that we kept letting that Waino guy pitch?
Waino sounds like Wino…I bet he was drunk while pitching.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
And that Carpenter dude?!?!
He even said “I don’t give a f*ck!”…so why should we let him play if he doesn’t care? He should go build a house or some luggage.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
he should build a house made of luggage
and take that wino guy and the other foreigner with him, oh and the old guy with the folder and maybe they can watch our real two aces pitch so they can learn something
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
OH NOOO!! ZOMBIE WEREWOLVES!!!!!! :=8O
http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/40372/zombie-werewolves-attack-troma-halloween
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
I finally got a smrt phone......
Droid X is insane.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
2010 This Year in Baseball Awards
You can vote here.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
clip it for your scrapbook
Hummel on this day in 1985
and more. chills, man. chills.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ozzie Smith: The 2 million dollar man.
Wow. Just….wow.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
but back then, that bought you a tanker's worth of gas.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It's just mind blowing that it used to be like that compared to today.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
giant pants, man.
or alternately, really tight ones.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hahaha
and at one time I didn’t have grey in my hair.lol
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So, I guess it's a good thing that we have a 40-man crunch
It sounds like we will have to leave some folks available for the Rule 5 draft this winter. I sure hope they pick the right ones to leave off the roster. The FO needs to get their crystal ball cleaned and ready.
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 18, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Hawksworth and Stavinova
are both out of options and could be taken off the 40 man to make room to add some of the newbies. The alternative is to hold on to either or both for insurance through Spring Training then try to send them down to AAA. Could also release Pagnozzi since it is doubtful any other team would offer him a major league contract and he’d be available to sign to a minor league deal if the organization doesn’t believe Anderson is capable of calling a major league game.
Goold said we had six openings
then promptly filled one with Sanchez and noted that re-signing Westbrook (if that happens) would take another. So, we have four or five to play with. I would certainly hope that Stavinoha’s spot is one of the seven that Goold said he would imagine would be opened up (before adding Freese back to get the the six noted above).
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 18, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
six openings are from
Westbrook, Reyes, Winn, Miles, Suppan and Feliz. Both Penny and LaRue don’t count towards the 40.
I forgot about McDougal as one to cut too.
by ubeddie on Oct 18, 2010 6:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
handegg...
Junior Seau … bad day.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Cholly on Oswalt: "Past the base, what're you gonna do? Rope 'em?"
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
someone has to fix this gif
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the Phils have the most disturbing gifs
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
However, Cholly made the right call
if the CF doesn’t hesitate before throwing home (I think Oswalt’s slight hesitation caused him to do likewise), they nail him at home. Probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the game though.
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 18, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, I know.
I’m just sharing Cholly’s verbal stylings. The newest ride at the park! Rope a Roy!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
sorry.... it was "What the hell you gon' do? Rope 'em?"
he then claimed he was not a cowboy
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Mason Let Go
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
Does anyone have a rational explanation for this?
by PeterStork670 on Oct 18, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
whoa. WTF
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Wow.
There has to be more to this than what is in that report.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
McGwire probably retained
No specific mention of McGwire, but not ruled out like MM was. Maybe he can be the bullpen coach now instead. Money quote: “Mason had made clear to Mozeliak his misgivings about the integrity of the player development pipeline, an opinion club sources believe made him vulnerable to Monday’s move.”
im thinking
they are letting Carp handle all of Mason’s duties this year…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
that's great
and who’s going to handle Carp’s mechanical issues?
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
I asked Carp
you can guess what he said…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
wtf just happened?
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
apparently Marty didn't like the way pitchers were being taught in the minors.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
still that is a disagreement that can be talked about
and an agreement can be reached for the benefit of everyone
that is the dumbest move of 2010
dumber than adding Miles, Feliz and Soup altogether
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
that doesn't make much sense
I mean, I know duncan has had some issues with that in the past. However; why would Marty quit because Duncan has an issue with stuff. It doesn’t fix the issue. Duncan would still have an issue with it.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Maybe a power play on Mo's part?
He doesn’t want to fire Dunc, but he fired Marty to show Dunc who’s the boss.
My sense — which is backed up by history (ala Anthony Reyes) and some other stuff — is that Dunc only wants pitch to contact, keep the ball down, sinkerball guys and doesn’t want anyone else.
This may be related to Shelby Miller. Dunc may think he can’t use him and doesn’t want any more guys like him drafted.
However, others are making the case for drafting the best pitcher available regardless of whether he’s got a sinker or not.
Dunc had high praise for Shelby in Spring Training, I believe....
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
In public, yes...
I’m not sure Shelby is the guy, but he’s an obvious candidate. It could also be Motte or some others.
Bottom line is that Dunc doesn’t think these guys will ever work and he doesn’t want them. He wants them traded before they get to him.
Strikeout pitchers can also be groundball pitchers
I think you might be hypothesizing a bit too deeply
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
and Pineiro, Joel.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
wainwright, adam
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
last name comma first name
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
It's an interesting though
If Dave Duncan is really that stubborn, then part of me hopes they let him go when La Russa does. I don’t understand how someone can see all these pitchers succeed in the majors on other teams who are not sinkerball specialists and still insist that this is the only kind of pitcher he can tolerate. That just seems insane to me. I know he has his philosophy of pitching, but can he honestly expect the organization to base the entire pitching half of their farm system solely on his preferences?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
And I just want to say I am skeptical about your hypothesis
But it is a possibility I suppose
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i seriously doubt this
i would like to believe one of the most renowned pitching coaches of all-time is this much of a dumbass….
This may be related to Shelby Miller. Dunc may think he can’t use him and doesn’t want any more guys like him drafted.
i feel like the odds that this are true are slim and that you are just pulling this out of your ass, because shelby isn’t even close enough to the big leagues for dunc to probably go and say something like that
by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 18, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
just for reference
shelby miller had a 46% GB% and a 4:1 k/bb as a 19yo. So your hypothesis seems unlikely, at best.
If anything, Duncan is gonna stick around an extra year so he can take credit for the kid’s success (and may be worried that someone along the line will ruin his future prodigy before he has a chance to mold him into the greatest living icon of duncanist philosophy).
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
so I'm thinking we're fucked
he’s one of the mechanics guys.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Carp is going to be working overtime on anti-pitch tipping drills
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
catching the tip is one thing
anyone in a cards uniform can do that
fixing it is another
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
do they usually have pressers when he announces he's coming back?
TONY: ITS NOT TOO LATE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
what is that going to be on?
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
You guys are taking the zombie werewolf news with surprising calm....
:=8.
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
I didn't have time to respond.
I was too busy melting down my mom’s silver china set to make bullets.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
GOB i am angry
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
It's not that huge of a deal
Would I like to see a fresh face? Sure!
Are we going to be hugely unsuccessful with Tony? Doubtful
Note: I almost typed “facebook” while typing “face.” Oh, technology..
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
how long have you been a cardinals fan?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
just postulating...the rest of us have had three additional years of tony.
i’d like to see how you feel in three years.
we have been “hugely unsuccessful” with Tony since 2006. really, since 2005.
and to clarify, this year, we had two of the top 10 hitters in the NL, two of the top 10 pitchers, and a top 10 rookie. we didn’t even make the playoffs. i call that “hugely unsuccessful.” maybe i’m in the minority.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
this year was hugely unsuccessfull
if you are measuring in terms of talent and results. (which is how I would judge a team.) However; but 2007 and 2009 were hugely successful in those terms.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
i saw 2009 as not successful at all
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
i mean, getting swept out of the playoffs when we had holliday pujols and two of the top 3 Cy young vote getters?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
the team was picked to finished third
One of the CY young vote getters was beat up. Holliday tried to catch a ball with his nuts, and Pujols was a none factor. That series wasn’t Tony’s fault. It wasn’t like he had Miles out there or Ankiel starting.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
no and i'm not blaming it on tony
although, lets not forget how bad we played at the end of the season that landed us in LA for the first 2 games. my point was that this hasn’t been a “successful” team since 2005/6
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
TLR got us to the tournament.
The rest is fate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
what about not getting home field advantage?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
How do you separate hugely unsuccessful from hugely unlucky?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
with the observation that pedro feliz batted 5th SEVERAL times
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Other managers make bad decisions all the time
Joe Maddon, who this board continually honks for, is one of the worst bullpen managers I’ve EVER seen
Bringing Tony back isn’t a move I LOVE, but I don’t HATE it either. If you’re being realistic with yourself, what’s the marginal upgrade from Tony to whoever else?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i agree with you for the most part
on paper, its a marginal upgrade. and i guess i don’t HATE this move. but, after watching him manage for 15 years, i’m ready for a change. i’m ready for a season where i dont feel frustrated at least once during every game. i know other managers make bad decisions. but just not so often.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I'm with you, I really am
I’d love to see somebody new come in here. But I’m not going to get worked up over it because it’s just not worth it.
There’s things to gripe about every manager… isn’t it at least somewhat comforting to know exactly WHAT we’re going to gripe about with Tony?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i suppose its the devil you know type argument
i’m not worked up; just disappointed.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
well Tony can't take all the heat for that.
This year sucked. We had Miles, Feliz, Winn getting signed to the team, which none of use are quite sure as to the extent of TLR’s influence in those roster decisions. We had those (and Stav Infection) getting regular playing time, which is TLR’s fault.
Yes, we had a great core. But the fringe players either were known-suckage (Miles, Supp, Feliz, Winn) put on the team, unexpectedly sucked (Ryan, Yadi’s offense), were injured (Penny) , or sucked to an unexpected degree (Skip).
Tony deserves a fair amount of criticism, many of his lineups, double switches, micromanaging escapades were miserable failures. I’m just not sure some of things for which he is criticized are fair.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
i agree with that. and to be clear, i'm not really "blaming" tony for anything other than batting feliz 5th.
what i AM saying is that, for whatever reason, this team has underperformed the last two years. and, for whatever reason, the team hasn’t been successful in the last five years. maybe moving tony doesn’t solve the problem. but i don’t see how going into next season with essentially the same team and the same manager does, either.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I actually wouldn't say we underperformed last year
We underperformed once we got to the playoffs, I guess, but that’s 3 games. Anything can happen in 3 games
Do you not remember Chris Duncan starting in LF and Ankiel starting in CF?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I understand what you're saying
I can see the disappointment, frustration, whatever people feel towards TLR coming back. I’m not super excited about him returning, but I’m not sure what else is out there. All managers frustrate all fanbases, constantly.
I don’t agree we underperformed last year. We were a bit of a suprise (as was our play in 2008). And yea we faded at the end of the season, but if TLR takes the blame for that, does he also get the credit for that incredible tear we went on in August?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
i'm not blaming or crediting tony, i'm just saying this team has not been successful, and i would call this season "hugely unsuccessful"
and i’m not saying its tony’s fault. mysterui said, “are we going to be hugely unsuccessful with tony? probably not.” and then i said, we’ve been hugely unsuccessful for awhile. my point was just that its not a given that we will be competitive or not “hugely unsuccessful” just because we retain tony
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
We're gonna have to fight, aren't we?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
let me just be disappointed for like one day!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Can I watch?
Weapons?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Gotcha!
I think we’ll be ok. As long as our bench isn’t full of Winn, Feliz, Miles, Stav and the like.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
and batting Feliz 5th shall not be forgiven!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I mean, he did have an OPS+ of 100 twice in his career, so there's that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yeh and it had nothing to do with the fact that he's played 10 years
regardless of the fact that those 10 years have proven him to be a terrible hitter, he still played 10 years which convinces him he’s better than tyler greene for instance
by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 18, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
and also moving the reliever to the 4th spot in TWO (!) extra innings games that we ended up losing
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Might nto be hugeless unsuccessful
But it made it likely we won’t be seeing the playoffs again for another year. It’s been once out of the 4 years, which is saying a lot considering we are in the worse division in baseball and have the biggest payroll in the division besides the Cubs, who are well, the Cubs.
at least there is an answer
not the one I wanted but now to move on to more interesting topics like “Is Atlanta, Toronto and Arizona still interested in Colby?”
Miles will be given a chance in ST...
and you know what happens when Miles is given a chance: 300 plate appearances, minimum.
Fire La Russa!
Note to Mo
Dear Mo,
Bringing TLR back in itself is not a mistake. However, bringing Tony’s pets back. That is a mistake. Fight the power. Say “No.” to Tony’s grit request.
Evilfrog.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
40 man roster issues might help fans
Goold’s article today notes that there are only six open slots in the 40 man roster before adding players otherwise eligible for the Rule 5 draft. Westbrook or another vet will one of the slots and the other slots might fill in with Rule 5 players. The only way to add a grit player like Miles might be to cut ties with Stavinoha. Hopefully, Mo fills up the roster quickly.
the nice thing about guys like miles
is that you can DFA them all you want, and they will just keep coming back.
It’s beautiful, really, like a self-licking ice-cream cone.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Terrible
I’m sure Mason really deserved the ax. I just think it’s time to freshen things up from the top down not the other way around.
interesting
and what is the better bullpen coach you have lined up?
so let’s just fire everyone and hope for the best?..
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Name 3 other bullpen coaches.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
dick pole
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
that's kind of like three
but honestly, if there was a coach i ever wanted to be a cardinal, it’s dick fucking pole
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
didn't know you were into that
…wait.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Accountability
Are the Cardinals just accepting their mediocrity or is anyone actually accountable for the way the team seemingly underachieves?
Oh wait, this was all Marty Mason and Hal McRae’s fault!
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2010 4:50 PM EDT reply actions
Unless Dewitt...
Adds $30M in payroll, it doesn’t matter who is managing. (even though I would prefer a new one)
If DeWitt did add $30MM in payroll,
it still largely would not matter who is managing.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
So, do the Cards really think Mason deserved to go, or...
is he just the victim of some sort of internal power struggle?
Perhaps Mo, or someone else, wanted to fire someone higher, but couldn’t. Is the firing of Mason just a signal to someone else?
I saw an unreliable source
mention a screw up with management of an expense account on Mason’s part. That would be less juicy than “he doesn’t buy-in to the philosophy”
What was our pythagorean w-l this year?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
we covered this...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
enter the cow.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i will not.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Anybody with a BA subscription wanna give me a summary of
This article about Descalso?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
It’s boiler plate stuff. (I still love you Derrick!)
I think the target audience is non-Cardinal prospect watchers. It’s meant to introduce Descalso to a broader audience.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Should I be encouraged by the amount of non-VEB, non-Future Redbirds stuff about Descalso
that I’ve seen online? It isn’t a huge amount or anything, but he’s getting mentions here and there.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
One-year contract extensions
are TLR’s version of “just the tip.”
by he's_our_catcher on Oct 18, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions
here we go again.
another year of tony’s antics, desire for washed-up ballplayers, stupid managing decisions and the other stuff? NOOOOOO!
this is a stupid move. but then again, who would’ve been tlr’s replacement if he didn’t return?
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