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Matt Holliday: Did We Buy High On His Home Run Swing?

Now that Matt Holliday's going to be a Cardinal for pretty much the duration, I thought I'd take a quick look at his swing and see how it rates on the, "Which swings of the Cardinal players do you like," scale. I will do this using the clip below, which shows Matt Holliday hitting a home run to Left Field off of a 92 MPH fastball inside in the 8th inning on September 3rd, 2009.

V_h_hd_bb_public_mattholliday_1b_hr_tolf_090053_20fps_sf_medium


The bottom line is that, with one minor-ish exception, I like Matt Holliday's swing a lot and wouldn't have a problem if my son started emulating it in games.[1]

Lose the Leg Lift?

I can understand why Mark McGwire tried to get Matt Holliday to tame down his leg kick. It sure is funky and unusual. However, based on studying Matt Holliday's swing, I can tell you that his leg kick is intertwined with his timing. If you're smart, you don't mess with a hitter's timing mechanism. As a result, it's like an inoperable brain tumor; you can't do anything about it without running a huge risk of killing the patient (or the swing, as the case may be).[2]

Walking Away from the Hands

A hitter's primary source of power is the muscles of the core. As Ted Williams understood, hitters tap into the muscles of the core by rotating their hips ahead of their shoulders (and thus their hands). One way to achieve this separation is by walking away from the hands; by leaving the hands back as you start to stride forward toward the pitcher. In the clip above, Matt Holliday provides a nice example of what this looks like in action.[3]

Textbook Position at the Point Of Contact

At the Point Of Contact (POC) Matt Holliday is in an absolutely textbook position. His back elbow is bent 90 degrees and in the Power L position, his front elbow is bent a bit due to the inside location of the pitch, and his back knee is also in the Power L position. Matt Holliday does make the Power V, but it's one or two frames after the POC. Matt Holliday's swing is also quite short, at 3.5 to 4 frames at 20 frames per second.

Ryan Ludwick, Are You Paying Attention?

Another thing I like about Matt Holliday's swing is how stable his head is. While Ryan Ludwick's head droops like the head of a frat boy who's realized (too late) that he's walked into a drag bar, Matt Holiday's head is quite stable. That is all the more remarkable given Matt Holliday's big leg kick. Like Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday watches the ball more with his eyes than with his head and, just as importantly, he doesn't try to watch the bat hit the ball.

That's All For Now

That's all I've got for now. I reserve the right to add sections as the mood strikes me or if someone asks a particularly interesting question.

[1] I still prefer Albert's swing for younger kids because there are fewer moving parts and thus less to screw up.

[2] A leg lift like Holliday's can take an extra bit of coordination to pull off, and men often lose that extra bit around 30 or so (or at least I did, and of course what I lost wasn’t just a little bit and I didn’t have that much to start with). Think about how Tiger Woods had to rebuild his swing a couple of years back. This could have been what McGwire was thinking about when he worked with Holliday a year or so ago. He may have been trying to be proactive about this. Holliday’s upper body is fine and his eye is good, which is important.I could see Holliday struggling in the next few years and having to rebuild his timing mechanism to something simpler like you see in the swings of Chipper, Carlos Beltran, A-Rod, or Manny. Given his more upright stance, I don’t know if Holliday could pull off Pujols’ minimal stride.

[3] Keeping the hands back is something that Albert talks about because, in addition to increasing separation, it can also increase your adjustability to off-speed and breaking pitches.

23 recs  |  Comment 139 comments |

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Great post.

 Given the monster contract he just signed, this is comforting. Along those lines, In your experience are there certain swing types that tend to age better or worse than others? If so, which type does Holliday have?

by ViperLjs on Jan 8, 2010 9:49 PM EST reply actions  

The leg lift is something to wonder about

That can take an extra bit of coordination to pull off, and men often lose that extra bit around 30 or so (or at least I did, and of course what I lost wasn’t just a little bit and I didn’t have that much to start with). Think about how Tiger Woods had to rebuild his swing a couple of years back.

This could have been what McGwire was thinking about when he worked with Holliday a year or so ago. He may have been trying to be proactive about this.

Holliday’s upper body is fine and his eye is good, which is important.

I could see Holliday struggling in the next few years and having to rebuild his timing mechanism to something simpler like you see in the swings of Chipper, Carlos Beltran, A-Rod, or Manny. Given his more upright stance, I don’t know if he could pull off Pujols’ minimal stride.

by thepainguy on Jan 8, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a lot later for athletes

especially dedicated athletes who work out constantly. You see the same thing with shooting mechanics in the NBA.

by sdrone on Jan 9, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

MLB players actually peak between ages 30-33

Basketball players start to decline, but not even at the age of 30. Kobe Bryant is over 30 and he is leading the league in scoring. I think Holliday will get better as a hitter and his power will actually increase in the next 2-3 years.

"Basketball is life"

by NBAFAN8 on Jan 11, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's Hope So

But I’m willing to bet he’s going to have to simplify things at some point, probably mid-contract. This doesn’t necessarily have to cost him any power. However, there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth for a year or so.

by thepainguy on Jan 11, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

It may not cost him power...

but like a lot of the 5 tool players as they get older (pre-steroid era that is) they may find they aren’t able to hit .300 or better anymore, but more like .270 or .280 with similar power numbers as the lack of coordination leads to a decrease in the ability to square the ball up.

Some hitters are able to avoid this (Hank Aaron, for instance), but others have aged into a 3TO guy, like Griffey after age 31, although injuries probably had a great deal to do with that.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jan 11, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess the concern with Holliday

is that at a ~10% walkrate and only 25-30 HR/yr, he’d not make an especially great 3TO guy. A lot of his value is tied up in his line drive powar and contact skills…

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

...and another rec for you

I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 8, 2010 10:02 PM EST reply actions  

ditto, and i have a request

can you do this for other players? or would that simply be too big of a project? i’ve always liked ManRam’s swing for another RH’s example. or Mauer’s, Griffey’s or Bonds swing for southpaws. i get if you can’t do it, but i’d just thought i’d ask.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 9, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Will do

I have good footage of Mauer, Manny, and others.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

griffey

really doesn’t have a very good swing. long and loopy

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

He's got a lot of...

…“Don’t try this at home, kids,” aspects to his swing.

For instance, the big old arm bar.

I did an analysis of his swing for the Cincinnati Enquirer a while back that you still may be able to find on one of the Internets.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

is this it?

A look inside ken griffey jr’s swing

it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

The swing wasn’t a home run, but one he still hit really hard to RF.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

griffey

always had that really long follow through and high finish (which i am not a huge fan of when trying to emulate a swing), but getting from his hands back to the point of contact was as quick as anyone, especially in his Seattle days.

by tireinhardt6 on Jan 9, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

His quick hands were what saved him

Most people can’t do that, which is why you don’t see that swing much.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

A lot has been said about Edmond's swing

It sure is aesthetically pleasing, but I wonder what painguy would have to say about it?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jan 9, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked it

However, it’s a bit different. He had a bigger uppercut and more rearward lean because he was more of a curveball hitter, so had to swing on a steeper plane.

I would have loved to have gotten it in HD.

Here’s all I’ve got.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

flagged!

seriously! I really, really like this fanpost, but that just ruined it for me.

I still think that’s a sweet, sweet swing.

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 9, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

no kidding, couldn't he have shown the 12th inning HR from 04?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 9, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

That's so funny

I didn’t even notice the uni. I was just looking at the swing.

Let me see if I have a less offensive clip.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

how could you not notice?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 9, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Here are two more appropriate clips

These look like two different views of the same swing.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

They do look like it, but they aren't.

The top one is at Busch III and the bottom is at Busch II.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Jan 9, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

they both sure are purty

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 9, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

lovely, rec'd!

My all-time favourite cardinal I think. #2 looks like it’s going a LONG way – hanging slider, I think, from the catcher’s set-up?

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 10, 2010 6:37 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It is incredible

that with the type of long uppercut swing Edmonds has he was able to get to that fastball in the second video (i imagine that this is Game 6 in 2004?). While I haven’t looked at the stats to back this up, it seems like Edmonds’s long swing came back to bite him; an older and slower Edmonds would never have been able to hit that pitch with that same type of swing.

by tireinhardt6 on Jan 10, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

That's funny

because, just going from memry, that swing on the bottom one looks much less uppercutty than I remember Edmonds being

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jan 14, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Very nice, once more

the interesting thing to the uninitiated (i.e. Me) watching Holliday play is how fast he appears to swing. He looks like he’s got one of the hardest swings around, and seems to “cut” under the ball to drive it and give it loft. All this, plus what you suggest above is a mechanically decent swing, makes me wonder why he doesn’t hit more HR. I wonder if it’s actually just an approach thing and he’s actually sacrificing a bit of potential power intentionally to drive the ball into play more and make better contact (i.e. keep his average & his doubles up).

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 9, 2010 5:13 AM EST reply actions  

The major league swing is a slight uppercut...

…because that lets you match the trajectory of the swing to the trajectory of the pitch (which is dropping slightly to a lot). You can see that the bat head is below his hands in Frame 18, which is indicative of this.

In terms of the force with which he swings, I’m not sure what his bat speed is. What I see is a pretty typical swing. I do think some of it has to do with his approach.

Let me ponder this.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

unfortunately

if i have to hear another stl media person say “violent swing”…

oh rats. seven years, huh?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jan 9, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say Holliday's swing is violent

I’d put it pretty much in the middle of the pack.

He’s trying to hit the ball hard, which is how you get on base even if you put the ball on the ground (and you’re playing on grass and not AstroTurf), but he’s pretty smooth while executing it.

Also, Holliday isn’t a high SLG, crap AVG guy. Instead, he can hit for both power and average.

IOW, this is a TOTALLY bogus criticism.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

precisely

why i am not looking forward to the stl media [and so forth]

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jan 10, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I could care less if the swing is violent or if the media thinks so

The fact of the matter is the guy can flat out hit.

"Basketball is life"

by NBAFAN8 on Jan 11, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

you're obviously not having to listen to the local feed......

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jan 11, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I really love your swing analysis posts

out of curiosity, you may have said before, where do you get the video for these?

They say sing while you slave but I just get bored

by Scarecrow7775 on Jan 9, 2010 5:40 AM EST reply actions  

Would it be possible

to compare pitch f/x data on off-speed pitches for Holliday and Pujols as a sort of gauge on whether the leg-kick really handicaps Holliday?

Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.

by giveml on Jan 9, 2010 8:41 AM EST reply actions  

Probably

My impression of Pujols is that he’s pretty much a pure FB hitter. He will swing at sliders but I really don’t see people throw him curves (or he doesn’t swing at them).

Holliday does swing at curves, which could have something to do with his HR rate as discussed above. It’s easier to square up a FB plus you’ve got more energy to work with.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

i dunno

if pujols is the best comparison, but he definitely does better on change ups than holliday. but he also does better on everything else. i’d like to know where i can find ld/fb/gb% per pitch type. seems like useful info

for reference
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1873&position=OF#pitchtype
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1177&position=1B#pitchtype

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

how big

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll check actually

I’ll do a split season correlation and plug that into Tango’s formula. Just give me a couple of days ;)

by vivaelpujols on Jan 9, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

nice analysis

his swing looks good to me. head is relatively static throughout and at the point of contact, he looks a lot like albert

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

yeah

it’s a “noisy” action but for me, the important bits (hands, head, torso) are actually pretty still.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 10, 2010 6:40 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't like

how he seems kinda hunched over, though

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 10:39 AM EST reply actions  

yeah

frames 14-17 reminds me a little too much of luddy

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

He has to hunch over like that...

…because his lower body is more upright (his knees are bent less than Pujols).

That is how he covers the ball down in the zone.

This is pretty comparable to what you see in other upright hitters like Manny, A-Rod, and Beltran.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

but

wouldn’t he (in theory) be a better hitter if he dropped down with his knees, like a piston to get the ball (kinda like what you see colby practice between pitches) instead of hunching over?

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I prefer that due to less head movement

You could argue that’s why Albert is better.

However, that takes huge quad and core strength.*

  • We have discussed before how Albert has an unusual body shape. It’s really a swimmer’s body, with a LONG torso and relatively shorter legs. Very much like Michael Phelps.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

.....................he's a dolphin?!!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jan 10, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

i thought swimmers had very long arms & legs

longer levers/propellers should = more power at the tips, shouldn’t they?

Also, the build for certain strokes is very different – breast-strokers have MASSIVE shoulders, triceps and chests, and pretty big thighs, whereas specialist freestylers (I think) have more core strength and fast-twitch-type physiques…

Albert’s pretty special, really, isn’t he? I can’t think of anyone else who “squats” like he does to quite same extent. Like you say, I have to think that’s got to be an advantage in terms of keeping his head upright yet still being able to reach balls down and away. I’ve always thought his set-up looks REALLY tough on the quads. I play volleyball, so I’m broadly used to a similar stance (relatively upright back with a squat/crouching lower body, although I think it’s more of a semi-unbalanced, weight-forward thing than Albert’s stance, and with a bit less squating) but I’m not sure I could do the Albert set-up 30-odd times a game without having sore quads at the end of it.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 10, 2010 6:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Most of a swimmer's power is in the core

That’s why they limit dolphin kicks (think of The Man From Atlantis), but swimmers use them as long as they can.

Using the big muscles of the core is much more efficient than using the small muscles of the shoulders.

by thepainguy on Jan 12, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

All swimmers should have a lot of core strength.

If you are doing each stroke right you should be using mostly your core to power you through the water, your arms and legs should just be helping. The different body types of swimmers in my experience have usually come from long distance versus short distance swimmers. Long distance swimmers are more likely to have broad shoulders and huge thighs from what I’ve seen. Also keep in mind this depends on their body type, naturally small swimmers won’t appear to have really broad shoulders but proportionally they do.
I was a swimmer (I hurt my shoulder so I don’t swim competitively anymore) and I know from experience the core thing. When I first started I relied solely on my legs and arms but as I got better I started focusing more on my core and my times made a huge jump after that switch was made.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 12, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

breastrokers definitely have enormous shoulders and chests compared to freestylers

world champion brenton rickard:

although I guess world freestyle champ paul biedermann is pretty big in that area too…

Still, I think you can see the breaststroker’s shoulders are somewhat bigger….

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 13, 2010 6:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Chris, I thought you once

made a comment about Matt’s swing finish. Something about his elbow maybe hyper-extending or something?

That’s the best photo I can find quickly. Oh wait, here’s another one.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Jan 9, 2010 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

Wow.

Look at his arm.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 9, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Taking the hand too far behind the coronal plane...

…(basically the back) can put strain on the front of the shoulder.

On several occasions I have seen hitters end up with labrum problems due to this. It’s VERY rare, but it does happen.

While I like one-handed finishes, this is a risk.

Holliday’s doesn’t do this too bad (Pujols is pretty much perfect).

I have a clip of Hanley Ramirez doing this much worse. His arm is in a terrible position.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Dig this pic of Hanley Ramirez

Not only is his hand way behind the coronal plane, he’s actually palm up.

This is REALLY bad for the shoulder.

I haven’t checked his injury history, but this makes me really nervous.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

So I looked up HanRam's health history...

…and he’s had problems with his left shoulder.

I wonder why…

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

photoshop

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 9, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't that on a HR where he's swinging harder?

does he really do that after every swing? i didn’t think Lego did that n every swing either.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 9, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Foul tip

Looks like a high FB.

This is a bit unusual, but you only have to do that a few times to have problems.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

heck my arm would fall off if i did that once

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 9, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Holy sh*t!

That is gross.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Jan 9, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

you'd be surprised how much the elbow naturally hyperextends when doing things like swinging a bat

although I suspect for athletes who are naturally “good” at doing what they’re doing, it might happen more than for a “normal” person. If you watch a cricketer’s bowling action, they nearly all hyperextend the elbow as they bowl. Same with pitchers.

I guess the possible issue with a hitter like Holliday is that they’ve got the unnatural extra weight of a bat extending a couple of feet from the end of the arm, so the forces on the elbow will be a LOT greater. I’m surprised there aren’t more elbow injuries from that sort of thing. I guess the joint just gets used to it…

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 10, 2010 6:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Did Preston Wilson have shoulder problems?

I think I remember him doing something like this before. After his swing his arm went back around his body like this, and the end of the bat ended up swooping back over his head. It was really weird looking.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jan 11, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Bah-doom CCCHHHH

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 12, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey-oh!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jan 14, 2010 7:50 AM EST up reply actions  

way to go spants!

Now you’ll have us all worrying about Holliday blowing out his elbow, too.

I hope you are happy with yourself.

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 9, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Whatever

He doesn’t exactly have a rocket launcher for an arm anyway.

I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...

by mojowo11 on Jan 18, 2010 3:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Does anyone else love watching bats flex during swings?

I think it’s quite cool that a rock hard bat and a rock hard ball can exert so much force on each other that they temporarily rearrange the physical properties of each other.

Science, baby!

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 9, 2010 8:25 PM EST reply actions  

Unfortunately

This is mostly an artifact of how the camera’s shutter works.

by thepainguy on Jan 9, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

It's still neat.

My favorite camera trick is the one when the ball is embedded in the bat.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Jan 9, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

it's because the end of the bat is travelling much faster than the handle, isn't it?

you need a REALLY fast shutterspeed to freeze both of them?

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 10, 2010 6:52 AM EST up reply actions  

It's called a rolling shutter

The shutter doesn’t capture the whole image all at once. Instead, it scans from top to bottom and then starts back up at the top. That scan down the frame gives fast-moving objects time to move a bit between scan lines.

by thepainguy on Jan 10, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you have any film on Rasmus yet?

Particularly of the kind you would like to share with us?

by stlfan on Jan 10, 2010 12:33 AM EST reply actions  

...i read that as entirely dirty.

dangit! i swear a month ago that would never have entered my mind.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jan 10, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

science is inherently sexy.

Colby Rasmus + films = ugh no, no, no whispering.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jan 10, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey!

I wrote that! If anyone innuendos me I will hunt them down and kill them. By “hunt them down” I mean I will sit on my butt and recover from the flu, and by “kill them” I mean watch TV.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 10, 2010 2:46 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i don't follow,,,,

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 10, 2010 3:12 AM EST up reply actions  

"frat boy who's realized (too late) that he's walked into a drag bar"

I don’t see the downside of this.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jan 10, 2010 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

Especially if you get to witness it

get it on film, then email his entire fraternity the youtube link.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jan 11, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Since seeing these posts on VEB

I started using my DVR as a swing viewer. When MLB shows Ken Burn’s “Baseball” mini series I record it and when the Babe, Gehrig, Williams are shown in a swing I go framw by frame and you can see the same thing thepainguy is talking about. I also think that the Babe was the first to have the body strength and the rotational swing style to make it go.

You see the great hitters of the first two decades of the 1900s like Cobb and his open hand swing, Speaker, you see contact as the only important part of hitting to them. But Babe was going to get 1/4th of the at bats and he was going to make the most of them.

Gehrig had great swing that was pure rotation. Slow it down and you see the same things as Pujols. He did have a longer stride though.

PS. Chris I still want a brakedown on Schmidt

Andy S

by apaul1029 on Jan 10, 2010 10:03 PM EST reply actions  

Hey TPG...

I’m watching this McGwire interview and I was wondering if you have a way to check Mac’s swing speed between say ’90, and again in ’98, and the change in his swing (he says shortening it). Just thinking you might have access to some video.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Jan 11, 2010 11:06 PM EST reply actions  

you shouldn't need tpg to do that for you

just look at it, it’s perfectly clear how much shorter his swing got, and therefore how much more powerful & quicker it was

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 11, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

email hardcore legend, he'll hook you right up

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 12, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I've never gotten any good video of his swing

I have liked what I see.

For instance, this clip is pretty much perfect (e.g. notice the Power L, not Power V, in the back arm) and similar to what you see in Holliday’s swing at the POC.

I have often wondered how much the benefits of steroids were physical and how much they wee mental.

by thepainguy on Jan 12, 2010 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I would guess some of both

I mean, if they were making him healthier and giving him more work-out ability or whatever, that would surely help. Plus, there’s the very real placebo effect. The mind is rather powerful sometimes… I remember once seeing a video that one of my colleagues sent me showing Dr. Nicholas Humphrey, a prof. at LSE*, talking about how part of the reason that medicine and doctors are effective is because they make people feel as if they will get better, which aids the healing process. Obviously this doesn’t work completely for everything (if your arm falls off you can’t will it to reattach itself or anything).

So anyway, I’d imagine if Mac believed steroids would help him, they probably did to some extent. Maybe a little, maybe barely at all, maybe a lot. Who knows? Anyway, I’d go with some of both.

*LSE: London School of Economics, one of the top social science schools in the entire world.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 12, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

the placebo effect and people's natural ability to heal certainly are real and aid the healing process.

People make billions of dollars a year selling vials of water as “homeopathy”.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 12, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Am I crazy

Or does Mark not actually look all that huge in this photo? I mean, I know he’s in motion and there are angles and such that make it harder to see what his physique really looked like. But players also wore their pants and jerseys tighter back then. If he were playing right now I don’t think he’d seem as big as he did in the 90s.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jan 14, 2010 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah I thought that

if anything, he looks very slender for a modern-day 1B. I can’t think of two many first sackers who look that wiry these days. Chad Tracy’s quite tall, but most of the good ones are either built like brick shithouses (as they say in these parts), like Albert, or are just downright fat (Fielder, Sandoval, Howard etc etc). Derek Lee’s about the only quite skinny one i can think of, and I can imagine even he’d look about 6 feet wide if you actually met him in person…

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Basically what I'm saying is

until someone comes up with some goddamn proof, I do NOT under any circumstances believe all this dirty rumour and conjecture about Mark McGwire taking performance-enhancing drugs!

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

a true conspiracy theorist

wouldn’t believe his recent admission, either, or at least not take it at face value. Admitting steroids use had no real cost to him, and the only way to get people to shut up about it would be to admit it so he could get on with his life… rough couple of days, then it truly is the past.

it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie

by SleepyCA on Jan 16, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

If he had come out

and denied taking steroids, even if that were the 100% truth, he would have been slaughtered. He gave the media what they wanted.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Jan 16, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

and he's still being slaughtered

f’in media, they’re never happy

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Jan 16, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

loney

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jan 14, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

yah, good call.

though he’s probably also of the “holy shit, I had no idea how built he was” type if you run into him in real life, i imagine…

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:28 AM EST up reply actions  

true

but i imagine most ball players are like that. seeing close ups of boog, i kinda feel the same way

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jan 17, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

a question that has often troubled me.

who makes shithouses out of bricks?

if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 17, 2010 5:03 AM EST up reply actions  

perhaps more concerningly

who makes brickhouses out of shit?

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 18, 2010 6:30 AM EST up reply actions  

His legs were never all that large.

I remember seeing him up close and his biceps were the size of my thighs and his forearms were the size of my calves. He had my legs for arms!

by Mister Eff on Jan 14, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

You're probably right

I think the angle of the photo just hides his upper body muscles a bit.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jan 15, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

And to my naked eye

I wouldn’t be surprised if there weren’t some aspect ratio nonsense going on there. Something seems… off

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jan 15, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

me too

and I remember seeing him from the upper decks

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jan 15, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Similarly, I've seen Holliday up close a few times

And I always came away with the impression that he could break me in two if he wanted.

I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...

by mojowo11 on Jan 18, 2010 3:24 AM EST up reply actions  

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