holliday signs.
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 5:56 PM EST
1340 comments
try not to burn this place down.
why is this jon heyman tweet SI story different from all others?
The St. Louis Cardinals have agreed to a seven-year, $120 million deal with Matt Holliday, SI.com has learned. Holliday will also get a full no-trade clause.
For the mathematically impaired, that would be a roughly $17M AAV for Matt Holliday. Seems like a lot for a guy with no other serious suitors.
Some O'Fallon realtor is in for a big commission in the near future, I think.
0 recs |
1340 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
We just sealed...
the next three division titles and you’re griping…
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
by guayzimi on Jan 5, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bleh indeed
come spring, I’ll be rooting for Holliday. Right now I am upset with the years. Hopefully Mo still has money to get us some pitching help.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully this isn't true.
120? obviously a typo. more like 7/102.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
think about it though
what’s 17 mil in seven years?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
119?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That might actually be...
sub-minimum wage.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
by guayzimi on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
woo
German Post WWI inflation…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that someone
adjusting for the apocalypse I see?
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oooh that's right. i completely forgot the apocalypse projections.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't we just
start signing guys to hugely backloaded contracts that start inflating in 2013? C’mon Mo! Sign Sheets for 7 years too!
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
by flipthebird on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be so certain.
And even if that was so, what about the next four? Potentially disastrous.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Jan 5, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sure, because a gigantic contract for an outfielder has never backfired on anybody.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My $0.02
Which is worth $0.00, by the way, is: yucky.
Free Milton
by all4tookie on Jan 5, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hey, tookie. long time no see.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hola.
Congrats on the front page promotion if I didn’t tell you already. I’ve been lurking (except on Saturdays when the articles make my brain smoke).
All work and no play makes all4tookie suck.
Free Milton
by all4tookie on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's less than a centiquid.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NTC
not worth the blue balls.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 5:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if MO's balls weren't aluminum this whole time.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or aluminium.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that too
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. We're American. We drop that unneeded "i"
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we have more than one Brit now
be careful
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't tread on me.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who's the other one?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 5, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
happy he signed
Everyone was jumping for joy when the deal was rumored to be 7-98 so what’s the difference of 3 million per year? Maybe, don’t answer that, veb. Regardless, ill sleep well tonight.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Jan 5, 2010 5:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
a middle relief pitcher or a flier on a decent pitcher
thats what 3 mil is worth.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
But…in the grand scheme of the things it represents around 3 percent of the cardinals payroll. I’d rather him at 14 but I’m not gonna go crazy at 17. I’d much rather given him 4-80 though.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with this
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there aren't many
middle relievers in baseball worth $3M and certainly none on our roster.
by chuckb on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but that's what they go for on a market at times.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our organizational philosophy, however
is to develop all of our bullpen arms in house, which is a good philosophy to have, imo. Look at how many pitchers we’ve drafted as relievers and have moved to relief since Luhnow and Mo took over in the front office.
I hope that we can begin to develop some more MLB regulars though, because we’re not going to be able to spend on big contracts (>$10M AAV) if we have Holliday and Pujols on the team.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a middle reliever was honestly something i picked from the sky
i could have said league average outfielder or a 2 WAR middle infielder as well.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we're set for the next 5 years
in LF and CF, and hopefully one of DJ Tools or Allen Craig can handle RF after Ludwick’s time is up. Really no room for middling outfielders. Boog is probably the SS for the next few years unless Tyler Greene figures out how to take a pitch or Kozma blossoms with the bat (not likely, imo).
$3M per season is just not a lot honestly. Considering it’s less AAV than I thought we’d get him for, it’s spot on with his projected WAR over that period (meaning it was evaluated well at cost), and he’s the best hitter at his position over the last 5 seasons I think this is going to be a good deal for us. We have a fantastic 1-2 punch in the middle of our lineup now, and if Rasmus can develop into a .350-.360 wOBA hitter in the next couple of seasons our offense should be pretty good for years to come — we could be looking at another MV3 situation.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree on all points
i was trying to send the message that three million simply wasn’t enough to really fuss about.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
weren’t you taking the opposite stance 30 minutes ago?
either way, i agree. kind of. i don’t like 7 years, but overall, i’m pleased
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
How is that? The entire offseason I said I’d be happy with a deal at $18MM AAV or less because he’d likely be worth that even on an 8 year contract.
I said earlier that I think Rasmus needs to become a very good cost controlled player and that Shelby Miller and another pitching prospect have to pan out for us to be competitive at this payroll threshold over the entire life of the contract.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i dunno
lots of info really fast. just thought you were saying you didn’t like it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind the contract
I don’t like the years, and NTC for the first four years kinda sucks even though I don’t know why we’d trade him it’s always nice to have the option to do so. I think the value is just about right, maybe a year too long, but OTOH, we have an All-Star LF in the fold now and two potential franchise type players on one team — can’t really complain about that.
I’ll be interested to see how the negotiations with Albert go and where payroll goes over the next couple of seasons. I have a feeling payroll is going to go up as the organization takes a shot at going deep in the playoffs the next couple of seasons.
I just hope they sign another pitcher instead of Miguel Tejada. Ugh.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe , but
isn’t that about what frizzy is getting
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
by sportsman on Jan 5, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you could get a comparable MR pitcher for league minimum with a decent farm.
This gives us a few years to build that farm without needing to trade prospects for another “impact bat.”
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 5, 2010 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still dont like the 7th year
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, 6/102 was realistic, I thought.
He gets 17 mil AAV, and cracks the 100 mill threshold. I’d still like to hear the official announcement.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the 7th year blows chunks
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 5, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm OK with This...
…it’s a lot of molah, granted, and a lot of years – but if it keeps the Mang in St. Louis, then its a bargain. Our outfield, barring injury, is set for a good while. Give it up to ownership, they ponied up for a good player. Let’s just hope he’s near worth it in years 5-7. The no-trade clause is key, though. We’re in bed with this cowtract come hell or high bacon…errr, water.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Jan 5, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How much does this contract
increase the likelihood that Albert sticks around? 5%? Maybe…
Albert’s decision is going to come down to the money and the team and this signing may have increased his likelihood in staying here only slightly. It’s not nothing, but this signing, by itself, won’t keep Albert in St. Louis.
by chuckb on Jan 6, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
then, i'm glad we have a good hitter
if albert still won’t talk next offseason, it’s time to flip him for another team’s entire farm
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 6, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you actually just misspell moolah and make it less bovine?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 6, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Typing with Hooves is Rough....
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Jan 6, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, actually now that I think about it more
I don’t like this very much. I remember being quite dismayed at the 8/128 rumor. This ain’t much better, if at all.
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
At least there is no opt out clause
i was worried about that…i wonder if there are any option years…7 years is a long time…maybe one of the years is an option
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
7 years is a very, very long time with a NTC.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Jan 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tru dat
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Holliday will be a Cardinal in 2016
That’s two presidential elections from now!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
damn
i was gonna vote for him in 2016
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Albert will run?
Part of me thinks he won’t want to play and be prez at the same time, but I have to believe he could do it.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jan 5, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
albert's got to be thinking bigger than just the US
universe is more in his ballpark
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why bother?
He’s already the king of a much better country, Albertofstan.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
by mojowo11 on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Albert and Stan
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
King Albert is not eligible to be Prez of the US.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 5, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you doubt the power of Albert Pujols?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Politics are for mortals
The Mang is a deity
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 5, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he will when thr DR becomes a state
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder if that will ever happen?
i doubt it will until something happens with cuba
NO POLITICS GDM! sry
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 5, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what?
we’d have to annex the Dominican, which is a country on its own. I think matty’s talking about the whole Constitutional thing where only a natural-born U.S. citizen can become president. unless, uh, you’re being sarcastic, in which case now you know.
so Albert could never be POTUS.
but AJ could, in about 25 years.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 6, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that one day
all of the Dominican Republic will read this thread. They will then say “Hey, Albert really does need to become the Prez” . Long story short, the whole of the DR petitions the US to become a state.
And yeah, I was talkin about the whole Constitutional thingy.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 6, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just for comedic value:
Domincan Repubic population: 10,000,000
Alaska population: 698,473
Wyoming Population: 532,668
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 6, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha...you sheep. You think we'll still have elections in 2016
Zeitgeist!!! New World Order!!!! Illuminati!!! Bilderberg!!! ZOMG ZOMG!!!
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahaha
bilderberg
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NTCs aren't the end-all
Players waive no-trade clauses all the time.
by roebirds on Jan 5, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have been okay with an opt out clause after 3 or 4 years
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea, for us
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
either way
I would have been peeing my pants happy if it would have been a 4 year deal
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aw
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm excited!
under the $18M AAV
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Jan 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
your avatar will be SEVEN YEARS OLD before we can trade him
if it’s that kind of an NTC.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so what you're saying
is that my son will have plenty of time to follow possibly the best 3-4 hitters in the league, at the tail end of their prime?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
only if they can re-sign Pujols for more than that.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
after this showing
of wanting to win, I don’t see a scenario where he doesn’t….but I’m just an excited fan and not being that rational.
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Jan 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
where's flim?
i win the shirt.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
IJUSTWANTTOBEPARTOFTHISDISCUSSIONWITHOUTACTUALLYSAYINGANYTHING!
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jan 5, 2010 6:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
let's go twitter scraping...
Goold: http://twitter.com/dgoold/status/7417967361
@amberkow No, but look for smoke. Black smoke means talks continue. White smoke means he has signed. #stlcards
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well now we need vexed to p'shop a papal holliday
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
easy
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
brb.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget the nuts
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
...what?
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this bowl of nuts.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Booyah!
Full-Size located HERE
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
good work vexed
now keep that bench warm. you’re in charge of the seeds. don’t mix them with the nuts.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
very nice
I don’t know what you call the person how hangs out and stands next to the pope. I didn’t know they had agents.
by spfldbird on Jan 5, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they have their own version of secret service
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Papal Guards, baby... Straight outta the Swiss Army
BEST UNIFORMS EVER
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Designed by Michelangelo
That may or may not actually be true. If you ask the right tour guide, everything in Rome was designed by Michelangelo, including the airport.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jan 5, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They're not out of the swiss army
they’re called the “Swiss guard” but they’re italian.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
die schweizer garde
silly silly uniforms
by d-dee on Jan 5, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Snap...this bad boy got green?!
It’s been so long since any comment I’ve made was rec’d.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 6, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what's the deal with Hass avocados?
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
F*ck em.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 6, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you've gotta balance the bench-warming with the photoshop
that’ll be chapter 2 in your baseball biography
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 6, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here's one
"/>
Ya know, I still don’t like that he is wearing #15. Too soon to be giving that number to someone for seven years.
by spfldbird on Jan 5, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
y'know, ... it occurs to me that he should be a cardinal.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But red birettas are nowhere near as cool as popehats.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
[shrugs] you're the expert
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am?! I wiki'd what the hat was called.
…Do cardinals get bulletproof cars? No. Popes do.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dear vexed
don’t admit wiki’ing unless you’re cribbing from them
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dear y2s
Don’t tell me what to do.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well now you're not an expert.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Expert benchwarmer.
Expert photoshooper.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 5, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA
and next he’ll be blessing the people with a stoic Deus Caritas Est
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
heh, Timmeh K is still on Randy Johnson
eat that, Boras. Big Unit’s presser is in an hour, I think.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
honestly,
it’s still a victory for mo
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
eh
i’ll give him a draw
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
considering that it's boras
and he originally wanted 22MM a year. then 18MM. 17 aint bad. especially if all 7 years aren’t guaranteed
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea but no other suitors
and….well thats all
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
but he pretty much had to get more than bay. and he didn’t get much more than bay. so, not bad, mo. still kind of a sucky contract, but oh well
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The scary part:
Biggest contracts ever given to outfielders:
Manny Ramirez – 160
Alfonso Soriano – 136
Vernon Wells – 126
Matthew Holliday – 119
Fear mongering and hot stove go hand in hand
Free Melodi Dushane
by all4tookie on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Question:
Is Matt Holliday more akin to Soriano, Wells, or Ramirez? I would say Ramirez. Nonetheless, it is quite a king’s ransom, isn’t it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez...
in the sense that he’s good, whereas the other two never really were.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
by guayzimi on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fonzy was awesome for a couple of years
middle infielder (albeit crappy one), great contact hitter, 30+ HR-power. It’s just he had a skillset that tends to horribly tank with age.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
def manny
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he's most similar
to Ramirez, of those players, and Manny was well worth that contract over it’s entirety.
You also forgot Carlos Beltran (7Y$119M) on your list.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice addendum.
Agree that Holliday is probably the second best of the group with a skill set that doesn’t age as poorly
Free Melodi Dushane
by all4tookie on Jan 5, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ABOUT TIME!
I’ll be sleeping a lot better tonight knowing that Holliday has signed. Now we can move on!
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Matty Ho speaks
http://twitter.com/dgoold/status/7418790026
Matt Holliday appearing on Doug Gottlieb show (on ESPN Radio) right now to confirm his deal.
less than 5 seconds ago from web
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
now that is some twitterin'
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just turned it on
did they hang up on him?
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Goold again
Holliday on Gottlieb show: “I’m going back to the Cardinals.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://den-a.plr.liquidcompass.net/standard_plr/audio_player.php?id=WXOSFM&playerType=silverlight
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks dude
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they just said
full interview at 6:05
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
holliday
said 120 guaranteed with an option year on the end
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cards still interested in tejada they say
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
face+palm.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
are the Cards aware they also need apple hurlers with which to hurl the spheroid plate-ward.
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i'll fling said apples for league minimum
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll fling them for just the meal money
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
by mojowo11 on Jan 5, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd fling 'em, and pay them to fling 'em
just to be on the same field with the Mang.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 5, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The rotation's pretty full
they could use more bullpen depth (smoltz), but I’m not too concerned with a crappy fifth starter
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 5, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps Dave Duncan could dig a trench,
so that the sinker would be so low as he desires it.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Jan 5, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 6, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When did we re-hire Walt?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I assume this info followed this path:
Boras —> Heyman —> SI.com —> VEB
This makes me cautious about believing this is a contract for a guaranteed length of 7 years at $120MM. Accepting the report as true, we didn’t overpay as much as I feared we might. The last couple of days got me overly optimistic that we would sign him to a very reasonable deal and I’m now attempting to tamp down those unrealistic expectations. I don’t hate this deal. And, if Year 7 is a vesting option, I’ll be very pleased with 6 years of a $17MM AAV. $18MM was the limit of my stomaching the deal and 6 years was my ideal length. So, what does someone with my tastes think of this? I guess I like it. $1MM less in AAV than was my limit, but one year over my ideal length. Matt Holliday will be 36 in the final year of this deal, for perspective, and that’s okay.
The real winners are Mo and DeWitt. The “DeWallet” jokes are done, for at least until the Pujols extension talks are over and done and Mo went out and gave up faberge eggs to Win Now and then spent over $100MM to Win Now again. Good for DeWitt. Good for Mo. Good for the 2010 Cardinals. Good Cardinal fans for the near future, without question.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think we are all winners if those "DeWallet" jokes are done
i will switch to loving this deal, if those jokes are done
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The silver lining.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DeWallet puns go on Holliday with new, more punny last name in the Cards
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
by mojowo11 on Jan 5, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
further update from heyman.
The two sides had previously discussed a seven-year deal worth roughly $16 million per, but Holliday was seeking more annual money than Jason Bay recently received from the Mets in his four-year, $66 million contract. This contract would pay Holliday more than $17 million on average for each of the seven seasons.
i’m glad that one-upping jason bay is what’s really important.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I blame Canada for the financial crisis.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All right
those are fighting words. We are very patriotic, and do not accept any dissing. My oldest son living in Toronto went to a Buffalo Bills game against the Toronto Argonauts (weird exhibition game) and the fans were booing when they played the Canadian national anthemn (presumably against the team, not the song). My son, being a feisty sort, started asking the nearby fans why were they booing the Canadian anthemn. One thing led to another, and he got ejected God bless America.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 5, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be pretty ashamed and offended if I saw Americans booing the Canadian national anthemn
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the FRENCH national anthem...
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That song is so gory.
It’s a really strange juxtaposition of the majestic major key and then the slashing of throats and blood watering the valleys of France.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 5, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Marseillaise is sooooo closely tied with the international movement
toward democracy—if you boo it, you hate democracy.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 6, 2010 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and casablanca, too
and who here but adam dunn hates both democracy and casablanca?
by DanUpBaby on Jan 6, 2010 2:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm starting to believe Adam Dunn is a ginger
it would make so much sense
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 6, 2010 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be very upset if fans were booing the Canadian National Anthem.
I think it is one of the better National Anthems. That I’ve heard to be fair.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 5, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
it happened. Anyhow, as a general principle, I don’t know why they play anthems at games anyhow. What bugged my son was that our politicians followed the US into Afghanistan, but the fans were really abusive about Canada sitting on the rail. Just bad Bufflaloes I guess. I was in AFG for 3 years, so maybe that incited him.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 5, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness,
Holliday’s probably earned a better contract than Bay. (I’m sure that there are some numbers somewhere to prove me wrong on that, but hey, I’ll stick to my story.)
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
by splhcb67 on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a better contract than Bays, even if it has a lesser AAV
it’s a 120M dollar f’in contract!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How is that fair?
If Holliday deserved a better contract than Bay, the Mets could have given him one. The bottom line is that the Cards were bidding against no one and raised their offer b/c Boras complained that he couldn’t get a lower AAV than Bay. That’s bad business.
by chuckb on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Holliday was somewhat...
over a barrel, but so were the Cardinals. Our offense was going to suck without Holliday and everyone knew it.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
by guayzimi on Jan 5, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That, and you want your long-term FA signing to be happy.
That extra 500k a year isn’t hamstringing the Cards. The length of the contract will be the problem.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was a big consideration
They want him to be happy here and you know how athletes can get about being disrespected.
by spfldbird on Jan 5, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And we could have distributed the money towards Felipe Lopez, John Smoltz and Ben Sheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And..
- then have Sheets, Smoltz, and Garcia have a steel cage death match for the fifth starting spot?
- Go with a 6 or 7 man rotation?
- Break Lohses legs?
Why would both Smoltz and Sheets sign with us when we have exactly one open rotation spot? Sometimes I think you get confused about what would be awesome for the Cardinals and what’s actually possible and realistic.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
plus
we have at least 4 war locked up for the next 4-5 years. flops, smoltz and sheets don’t give us that. maybe we can make bargain steals like that every year, but i doubt it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Check out next years free agent class
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and that's going to continue to perpetuate?
either way, you’re proposing that we spend $17MM/yr for 5 WAR every year in the future. we’ve probably done that if not a little better for the next 4-5 years and then we’ll be overpaying a bit the last couple years. and that doesn’t account for inflation
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
minus whoever signs extensions
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 6, 2010 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We're also assuming
That the Cards aren’t making any adjustments on the revenue side with Holliday vs. without. In the short term particularly, since we are talking about 1 year deals presumably with those 3.
I think Holliday increases the spending cap to some extent because there are fans that will spend to see him more than any other FA option(s). It’s in many of their heads that this is the guy that is needed, and revenue will reflect that mindset whether we share that belief or not.
by Merry CRasmus on Jan 5, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia goes to the minors
I’ve always said that. Also, with Sheets, Carp, Penny and Smoltz in the same rotation, you don’t think at least 1 of them will miss significant amount of time.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
But how do you sell that to the guy you’re signing as the 6th starter?
“Don’t worry Ben, as soon as Chris, Kyle, Brad, or John goes down with an injury, you’re the very next option!!!”
On what fucking planet does he not tell us to shove it?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, unless lohse has "starting pitcher" in his contract, we could have a
carp
waino
sheets
smoltz
penny
rotation
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could....
so then we have a $10M long reliever? Is that really a good use of resources? I think not.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lohse's contract is a sunk cost. if we can add wins to the team that way, why not?
also, he would as much be a 6th starter in waiting. those five guys are not going to make 33 starts each.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but what do you tell lohse?
and why are we simply assuming he’s going to suck?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone's assuming anything
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 5, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he was injured last year for the first time in his career
I for one expect a rebound
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Jan 5, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i at least
“hope” for a rebound…
or else
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
by BVHeck on Jan 5, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no one's assuming that.
i’m assuming that he’s the least essential part of that rotation.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and so we can just throw his ass into the bullpen?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i was trying to come up with a scenario where you could add two pitchers to
the rotation.
i don’t think this is likely, but it’s not out of the question.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and you think he would just respond,
have a good attitude, and pitch well out of the bullpen?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actuallly I think he'd demand a trade
This idea is getting better and better
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 5, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you expect a team to take him
and his salary…and give us something decent in exchange?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ken. Williams
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 5, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's an incredible waste of resources
considering that Sheets and Smoltz are health risks as it is, and neither will probably be better than a 1.5 WAR upgrade over Lohse.
I think the money could be better spent on upgrading our LF by 4 WAR. Mo and DeWitt seem to agree.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nah
we’re throwing away wins by sticking lohse in the pen
i think he’ll be 2 WAR next season. putting him in the pen as a long man makes him more like 0.5 WAR
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Riiiight
What if he holds out and doesn’t show up to camp? How does it play then?
And why do you guys just assume that humans will just do as you tell them to do? Do you manage robots at work or something?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't smoltz say he was willing to work from the pen?
although it was also reported he wanted to start. In that scenario, I pencil in those 5 guys to start, offer Smoltz a contract with incentives based on appearances or something, and tell him straight off the bat that if he’s healthy, he’s the full-time closer for a team that has Holliday and Pujols in the middle of the lineup and a pretty awesome 5-man rotation.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your comment reads as Man Stew Man Stew Man Stew
I approve.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 6, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i bet you do
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Put Smoltz in the pen for the start of the season
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you telling him this before or after you sign him?
Do you think he can’t read between the lines? He wants to start, so he’ll sign with incentives that allow him to start like he did in Boston probably. A HOF veteran of 20 years is not going to get fucked into doing something he doesn’t want to do.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He actually said before
He prefers to close in the regular season and start in the playoffs. But alas he would be signed as our 8th inning man.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz said that?
Find it, because I don’t buy it, and that doesn’t make a lick of sense either. If you’re in the bullpen all year, you’re certainly not making your first start of the year in the playoffs.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he said it last year right before the playoffs started on the radio
I think it was October on ESPN 101.1
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well there's this from the
Smoltz has drawn interested from teams as a starter, late-inning reliever, and a hybrid of both (the Phils have needs in the back end of their rotation and bullpen). The pitcher is open to all those possibilities, and will weigh his options after completing this information-gathering phase of his process.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Jan 5, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just b/c it doesn;t make sense, that doesn't mean
he personally doesn’t like the thrill of starting a postseason game and the thrill of closing a regular season game over starting a regular season game and closing in the playoffs.
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again?
You asked for and received multiple verifications of this interview in a previous thread, and ignored it as you continued posting.
by astrostl on Jan 5, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz has never said this
But thanks, jerkoff.
His agent has, but agents will say anything to get the best deal for their client. Do you really believe that he’d come to the Cardinals to pitch in the bullpen when he could start for someone like the Mets?
The man has said, repeatedly, over the past 3 seasons that he wants. to. start. games.
Show me a quote from Smoltz himself that he would rather close than start. Good luck.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 9:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz has never said this
But thanks, jerkoff.
See, this is why you annoy people. There was absolutely no call for that comment.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You asked for and received multiple verifications of this interview in a previous thread, and ignored it as you continued posting.
There’s also no call for this, but, as usual, I’m the bad guy.
I’m done with this thread.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
This was not ignored, but Smoltz was also taken ENTIRELY OUT OF CONTEXT by the posters citing this as evidence that he’ll work in the bullpen.
He simply said that he’s weighing his options and will look for a fit that is best for him. Considering that for the last 2+ seasons he has said that he would rather start, that starting is easier on his arm, that his contract in Boston was set up in such a way that they would either start him or let him go, I’ll take this to mean that he’s looking for a places where he can start games, if there aren’t any available then he might look at closing or he might just retire.
He’s never EVER, EVER said, in any quote that I’ve seen, that he prefers closing to starting.
If I turn people off, then fine, I’m really fucking tired of people not taking players at their word and taking what they say out of context because it fits what they would LIKE to happen.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We are talking about a specific interview in which he was asked whether he prefers to start or close, and his response was that he feels like he has the greatest impact on the game when closing in the regular season and starting in the post-season. It was not taken out of context, and it was unambiguous.
I believe you when you say that you didn’t hear him say this, but he has many interviews.
by astrostl on Jan 6, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, stick, dude.
Your arguments are pretty sound.
But your inability to phrase it without making the other person look stupid is why people can’t argue with you w/out getting pissed off.
Your contributions are great. But it sucks that they have to be taken with a punch in the nuts on such a regular basis.
by arch support on Jan 6, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Arch
but astro nearly always comes off like a prick to me, as if he knows better than everyone else. I get a little sick of it.
As far as me ignoring evidence — that’s patently untrue because the quote was taken out of the context of the conversation that he was having on the radio. The degree to which people go to fill their own delusional fantasies continues to be impressive.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't trying to say anything about the validity of astro's post.
Just stating my opinion on what it’s like to be on the other side of a fourstick conversation.
by arch support on Jan 7, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FlimtotheFlam: “actually I heard him on ESPN 101.1 right before the playoffs / He said he prefers the Bullpen in the regular season and likes to start in the playoffs”
astrostl: “I heard the same interview / I thought it was TV around the playoffs, but it might have been repeated. I remember him saying something to the effect of him saying that it maximizes his feeling of having affected the game.”
mattyfrommo: “He also said the same thing on an FSM interview”
I don’t personally know Flim or matty, and I did not conspire with them to make up having heard an interview. Which do you think is more likely: that three people who say so all heard the same thing, or that it did not and could not have happened simply because you didn’t hear it yourself?
In addition to all the other benefits, if you tone down your assertions it will be easier to course-correct if it turns out that you were mistaken. The way you dig in your heels makes it virtually impossible to save face in light of an error, and you compound it by insulting people who disagree.
by astrostl on Jan 6, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In addition to all the other benefits, if you tone down your assertions it will be easier to course-correct if it turns out that you were mistaken. The way you dig in your heels makes it virtually impossible to save face in light of an error, and you compound it by insulting people who disagree.
Thanks Mr. Freud.
I guess we’ll have to see won’t we? I don’t think that he’ll take a closer’s position if a starting spot is available. Period. You can fucking disagree all you want, I’m past the point of giving a shit.
My original point still stands — You can’t keep signing free agent starters when you have no spots left in your rotation. You can speculate all you want about moving pitchers to the bullpen or which guys might want to pitch where uder what circumstances. Bottom line — it’s all hearsay and is ridiculous to discuss because it will not happen.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I think is likely:
Which do you think is more likely: that three people who say so all heard the same thing, or that it did not and could not have happened simply because you didn’t hear it yourself?
That you all assumed that because he’s said that he may like to pitch out of the bullpen on occasion (crucial games, playoffs, etc.) that you all then inferred that means he’s open to pitching out of the bullpen.
See, when you take things out of the context of the conversation, it’s easy to misinterpret what someone was saying. I’ll take the other thousand quotes I’ve heard on Dan Patrick’s show and read in the newspaper and other sources, as well as his quirky Red Sox contract to mean that he IS more interested in starting than relieving and that he’ll take nearly every opportunity to start games if given one.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As stated above, it wasn’t an inference or a misinterpretation. If you think this, you are thinking about a different interview.
by astrostl on Jan 6, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not insulting you
You assuming that I’d ignored a bunch of evidence. I didn’t. That’s pretty fucking insulting to say to someone who nearly always has a researched opinion on things and backs up his assertions with evidence.
As far as calling you a jerk-off, well, sometimes you come off like an all-knowing prick. You don’t want to be part of the conversation? Scroll the fuck on down then. We don’t need your sniping.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not assuming that you ignored it, there is a written record: you asked, received, remained active in that thread, and then asked again in this one.
Examples of your “all-knowing” assertions:
“The dude will simply RETIRE if his only option is to pitch in the bullpen. He hates it there”
“He will not be in the bullpen for any team at the start of next year. Period. Move on.”
“It’s not bluster, sir, it’s fact. He’s stated 100 million times in the last 3 years that he doesn’t want to work in the bullpen.”
You went on – several times – to insist that those of us who heard his words must been twisting them and/or taking them out of context, rather than consider that you may have missed the interview.
Your opinions may be researched, but your posts are full of assertions with no backup and plenty of unnecessary, colorful language. It’s not good.
And now you’re claiming that you’re not insulting me in the same post where you acknowledge having called me a jerk-off – I just don’t know what to say!
by astrostl on Jan 6, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i think
it was the other way around
and i think it was more like he was willing to close in the playoffs. he prefers to start on the whole
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness
He’s probably earned a better contract than:
- Vernon Wells
- Alfonso Soriano
But that doesn’t mean I have to pay him BETTER than that, just because.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WOOO!!!
Money schmoney
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
by MilCardFan on Jan 5, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
More tweetage
From Goold: “Holliday said the deal is seven years, $119 million, though it has some language that makes it $120 million guaranteed.”
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jan 5, 2010 6:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
more tweetage
per Leach: “Holliday indicated that there may be a club option for 2017”
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good thing, though
if it’s, say, for another $17m. If he ages really well and is still hitting like an elite guy at 36 (like, I dunno, Manny or someone), and if inflation of FA deals makes $17m > 3WAR in value, it might be something we’d want to pick up.
I MUCH prefer it if the 7th year of the deal is the option, though.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Goold
I hope not nexdef’d
Holliday said the deal is seven years, $119 million, though it has some language that makes it $120 million guaranteed.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
boo
too many years. I hope they are not all guaranteed. or the Cards have exceptional insurance that pays them back if he hits under .280.
by spfldbird on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll wait until we've got all the contract details before I make any judgment.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What the hell is wrong with you?
This is the Internet.
by Youneverknow on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, get your eght inches out and vent!
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
I... am gonna rec this.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't you want to holler
“Yeah get your eight inches out and vent!”?
we all get 8" on the internet, y’know. except for gdm (which he told us himself)
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would yell....
but sometimes the internet world and the real world merge and if I yell…… my boss would just have to say….. “Impressed, but you have to go home now, for good”
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 5, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IT'S COLD!!!!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in this same boat.
My initial reaction though:
AAV is about right, probably one year too long, but we don’t have enough info to know if there was another good deal on the table, I hate NTC, but I think it was required.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
like bouros says
franchise players get ntc, just like lohse
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
by sportsman on Jan 5, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My thought also
This is too simple of a contract for the Cardinals just straight up
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
holliday said
that there was “some stuff” in the contract.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Only in America can you drop a fly ball to help lose an important playoff game and wind up 120 million richer 2 months later. But it’s not my money – so…YAY!!!!! Actually pretty stoked.
by riotmute on Jan 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
busttterrrrrrr
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thank you - i needed a good laugh
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Jan 5, 2010 6:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
uh, Olney...
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome.
This made the front page of deadspin.
Free Melodi Dushane
by all4tookie on Jan 6, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No offense but
Matt Holliday got everything he wanted, minus $1M a year. Did we really win this negotiation with no competition?
I’m glad he’s on our team but that’s a lot of money and years.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
probably not
But we got the best player on the market and albert got his robin for the next 7 years.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Jan 5, 2010 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
This presupposes that Batman is not in Gotham in two.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you go to hell, you go straight to hell!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In this particular instance
You have to get Holliday back and then deal with Pujols later. If you don’t sign Holliday and Pujols leaves anyway, you’re really in a bind. At least now you have Holliday in the fold and if Albert decides to bolt for $30M per season to the Yankees or Boston, then you still have a franchise player to build around.
I’m going to wait for more details on this particular contract before I comment. Suffice to say, if this is the deal, I think the AAV is about right, it’s the years that disturb me. There’s a rumor of a team option for an 8th season, which means 8Y$128M was probably a starting point.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line...
Three things need to happen for us to compete over the life of this contract without raising payroll significantly, outside of signing Pujols:
- Shelby Miller has to be the real deal.
- Our farm system must produce another starter and 2 other position players who are league average or better.
- Colby Rasmus must become a franchise type player in CF.
If those three things happen, we’re looking at a competitive ballclub over the entire 7 years, providing we keep Pujols of course.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
work harder on Shelby, AJ.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, this makes this deal absolutely
makes the next few drafts critical. We’re going to be in dire need of young, cost-controlled pitching.
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
quick movers, too
I think we need to draft a couple of late college guys who could make the majors in 2-3 years.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and if you're john mozeliak
haven’t you researched this? don’t you think he would know if he was being foolish by wasting this money away?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're not gdm's son
Your SoonerFan’s son
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i knew his mom was cheating on me!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is John Hendry? Is Brian Sabean?
Just because a fellow is a GM, doesn’t mean they are automatically making intelligent, informed uses of someone else’s money.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Jim Hendry
I just totally flubbed that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but doesn't he deserve the benefit of the doubt for now?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't hate this deal,
but I do hate the Lohse contract, which I immediately criticized (and haven’t stopped) even with VEP and other very smart individuals attempting to talk me down. I don’t think a GM ever deserves the benefit of the doubt when we can criticize based on an objective analysis of value. I’m more than willing to listen to such criticisms, to form my own opinion. Right now, I don’t hate it and it will make an enjoyable next two seasons, I hope.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
like i said, i think mo deserves two years on this one.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lohse had some rough luck last year...
He started out great and then got banged up.
Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.
by Red Blazer on Jan 5, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like my sister in her 20's
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 5, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is your sister a good "buy low" candidate?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
how is this not green?
LOL
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know how missed that yesterday
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn!
Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.
by Red Blazer on Jan 5, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But even the best-case scenario had Lohse being "just about worth that deal"
it wasn’t like there was any ceiling for him to better it, and it didn’t factor in the possibility he might get hurt (as he did) or might start to suck as his stuff deteriorates in his age 32 and 33 years.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
but there’s also a lot you can’t predict here. You can’t even predict Pujols coming back as much as we’d like to.
You can’t predict pitching draft picks to hit the major leagues or not get injured.
Hell, maybe DeWitt is thinking about payroll going up in the near future for whatever reason.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but this is what i'm saying
of course you can’t predict who is going to work out and isn’t going to work out, but that’s what you have scouts for, to tell you who has the best chance of working out.
i still think mo isn’t even in the conversation for holliday if he doesn’t think at least somewhat highly of what the farm has to offer in the next five years. luhnow does exist for a reason.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're totally wrong
You have Pujols in his prime for 2-4 more seasons, with the current pitching staff of Carp, WW, Lohse in place for at least the next 4 years. The iron is hot, it’s time to strike, regardless of what we have coming up, and we just graduated the #3 prospect in all of baseball to the majors last year.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think we agree...
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we should trade Shelby while his value is up?
Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.
by Red Blazer on Jan 5, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's both a terrible idea and impossible until this summer.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and his value is not yet up
he is far from being at his best trade value, and I am not endorsing trading Shelby
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
straight up for Longoria
git r done.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
git r done + british accent = mind blown
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 6, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
git r done + british accent =
(you’re welcome, ladies of VEB)
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 6, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good lord
if could spend 5 hours a day working out, maybe i’d look something like that. maybe
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you still have that
whole ginger thing to contend with…..so, ya, not so much.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Jan 6, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
story of my life
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's more diet than workout
you’d have to give up bacon/pie/chocolate brownies
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 6, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
locking up rasmus should be a high priority
On par with extending Pujols. If Mo could sign him to a deal like what Longoria gave to TB, that will help a lot going forward…
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
by SleepyCA on Jan 5, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree,
but the notion that now Albert Pujols will assuredly come back is presumptuous. That’s all I’m saying.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel more relieved than excited
The deal is done, but it makes me very nervous for the mid-to-late aughts.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jan 5, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mid-to-late teens?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still signing my checks "2009" too
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jan 5, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wrote my rent check like that
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mid-to-late onesies
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
by mojowo11 on Jan 5, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
though i do wonder if the orioles were more involved than they let on….on mlb radio yesterday, they acted like the orioles were really involved
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We better win the fucking World Series in the next few years
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
heck yes we better
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
One of Holliday’s kids liked the Cards a lot before the trade (per Goold)
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Marecek got nexdef'd
that was in the 4 Days in July article. which Goold wrote. Goold’s tweaking the guy.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the next time he drops a fly ball in the playoffs he's in trouble!
For this much money I expect a lot. I hope he realizes that.
by spfldbird on Jan 5, 2010 6:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Matt Holliday, sitting at home, brings up his iPhone and writes a note:
“Note to self: spfldbird on VEB expects a lot for this much money. "
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It will be me, too.
And most everyone on this board as well as the P-D board and people who don’t even comment on boards. I was just teasing. We had this very discussion a while back. When a player conducts himself in this manner during negotiations, seeming saying, “I’m worth $20MM,” then he has to expect that folks will hold him to a $20MM standard (or, a 7-year, $120MM standard, as the case may be).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
stock up on nuts. practice aim.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he's back on gottlieb's show
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 6:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
report back!
we have some leftover pie
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he uses the mini urinal when all other urinals are occupied
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's the same deal beltran got in '05
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
are you going to take this one or shall i?
by chuckb on Jan 5, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are we gonna get a chuck post out of this?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are you or chuck ever happy with a move the team makes?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet they like the Gutierrez extension
Free Melodi Dushane
by all4tookie on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You bet I do
infinitely better than this signing. In fact, Gutierrez is probably as good right now as Holliday. He’s certainly close and he’s younger and will make $100 M less. It’s a much better signing and it just isn’t close.
by chuckb on Jan 6, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
When you consider that Grady Sizemore signed this same deal in a much better market 4 years ago, you could make the case that they overpaid. He’s going to have to remain superhuman on defense because his best offensive season is barely above league average at .337 wOBA. He certainly isn’t the 6 WAR player he was last year, I would guess he’s no better than 4 WAR going forward, with nearly 2 WAR coming on defense.
This was also buying out arbitration years — if you think they get him this cheap as an unrestricted FA, you’re fucking nuts. Lets not compare completely different situations — thanks.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm forever happy
I just type so that you will get your panties in a bunch.
I feel so much better now.
by chuckb on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't appreciate the sarcasm.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he wrote it
so i’m sure he did.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this better be intentional irony. because if it's not, that's pretty ironic.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ummm...
your comment was full of sarcasm as well
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
man i'm good!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's not what she said
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was funny
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sarcasm
the whole thread on my part was sarcasm.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I LOVED Smoltz
LOVED the original Lohse deal.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i loved the lou brock deal
old school, bitches!!!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 5, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know,
I’m calling your bullshit here. This is the post you so often linked to and if you use the James WAR, the Cardinals UNDERPAID by 2 million dollars. I think you’re being awfully shifty in your position.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking for myself,
but I suspect VEP might be on a similar page as me, I don’t have a problem with the dollar total. It’s the seventh guaranteed year that tarnishes the deal. Nonetheless, I don’t hate the deal. I allowed myself to be convinced that Holliday might be had on a guaranteed 6-year deal and now I’m wrestling with those dashed expectations.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
I think everyone was overly optimistic about us having Holliday over some proverbial barrel. I was there too. I’m just not sure that’s an accurate assesment after seeing what our actual deal was.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 5, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a fair price
However, who else was on Holliday? What other team was going to bid for him and pay nearly this much? Besides the market’s been much worse than the estimates in that article so far. This is a bad deal.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prior to Bay and Holliday
the market was sitting around 3.5-3.7/WAR. You’d expect it to sit low when the biggest FA still haven’t signed. If that comes up to anything at or over 4M/WAR, this contract is eminently defensible.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 5, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is "eminently defensible"
but that doesn’t make it a great contract from the team’s point of view. I’ll grant, however, that it is “eminently defensible.”
by chuckb on Jan 6, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially since
a 4 WAR player is worth more than twice a 2 WAR player, especially for the Cardinals, who have Pujols
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 6, 2010 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's also more risk with one 4 WAR player vs. two 2 WAR players
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 6, 2010 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not enough to cancel out the extra reward
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 6, 2010 2:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
...The cardinals are playoff favorites, even before the Holliday trade
Risk is more detrimental to our playoff odds than reward is beneficial.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 6, 2010 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that it has been shown
that successful playoff teams should maximize:
1) Power hitting
2) Good defense
3) Frontline starting
4) shutdown relief pitching
Since we have no real HR threat behind Pujols (barring Rasmus developing further), adding holliday is probably pretty crucial to playoff success, IMO
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 6, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmmmm
What other team was going to bid for him and pay nearly this much?
I dunno, do you? There are two big market teams with holes in LF right now (Anaheim, NYY), and I think that Baltimore might have gotten into it at $15M or $16M AAV for the same length of contract and begun building around Holliday and their young core of position players (Wieters, Markakis, Jones) and pitching prospects.
Bottom line — you don’t know any more than the rest of us, and chances are Mo knows more than you do in this instance because he was doing the negotiating and you weren’t. You’re parsing on imperfect information here.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel confident that nobody was going to go 7 years for Holliday
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not as confident as you are.
Apparently Mo wasn’t either or we wouldn’t have offered this contract.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mozeliak has a nasty habit of over-paying
I’m not convinced he’s anywhere near as smart as some of his defenders think. He’s only in his 2nd year as a GM, and I think he’s been taken advantage of once or twice. The 2nd Lohse contract, the Holliday trade, the DeRosa trade, the Holliday contract. We’ve arguably over-paid on all these. I like Penny and think the deal was fair, but there’s a pretty good chance that someone like Brett Myers or Jose Contreras signs for like <$5m in February. The only cheapies he’s got are Lugo and the first Lohse deal.
I stand by my pre-Holliday belief that Mozeliak is a below-average GM. Not bad, not egregious, not great, just kinda mediocre.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really
because a lot of us were all over his nuts for getting a free Julio Lugo, a great 1 year deal for Lohse, a cheap John Smoltz . . . He’s had two instances of overpaying, imo – the second Lohse contract and the Joel Pineiro contract. Outside of that he’s made a bunch of deals at market value and some trades that we can endlessly debate the value of.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 6, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does he get absolved for the Piniero contract
given that Piniero picked up the slack and then some last year?
by arch support on Jan 6, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless there's a coherent argument to be made
that his 2009 season was predictable at the time of the contract. . . then no. He got lucky. I
‘m highly skeptical that anyone can craft an argument that amounts to more than “well, we thought his stuff was better than his results”. If I recall correctly, the sinker he learned isn’t even a “normal” sinking pitch but some weird single seam adaptation.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 6, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and iirc, something dunc told him to do after the 08 season, halfway into his contract.
so, not a pitch that won him the contract.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 6, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, this comment ignores how few contracts he's signed.
really, those are the two major FA contracts he’s negotiated. he’s handled some other minor ones (on which he’s arguably overpaid, though not to a huge extent: penny, franklin), but who else has he signed? i guess the first lohse contract.
on the trade front, there was certainly a substantial group of posters who thought he overpaid for holliday and especially derosa in terms of prospects. the khalil greene trade has been criticized, though more on the lack of due diligence than the overpay.
i won’t say i agree with every one of these criticisms, but he sure doesn’t have a rep as a sharp dealer in free agent negotiations.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 6, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah I forgot about Franklin
to me, that extension showed a fundamental lack of understanding of how and when to deal with a player, advanced stats etc. etc. We signed him to an unnecessary extension to pitch in (I think) his age 37 or 38 season (!) when he’d had precisely two good seasons of bullpen pitching in his lengthy career, and when he was ALREADY signed for 2010.
I really, really, really hated that when it was done, just because it was SO unnecessary (if Franklin continued to be productive in 2010, presumably not 2009-type-productive as he’d NEVER been that good before and was lucky with BABIP, HR/FB AND LOB%, but kinda decent-set-up-guy-who-can-close-if-need-be-and-get-some-GBs productive, we could STILL have signed him to a similar contract. Fact was, Franklin was at the highest value he’d pretty much had in his CAREER, during a season which all the peripherals and his lengthy resume suggested was entirely unsustainable and likely unrepeatable, AND we had him for 2010 and likely an option to sign him to an extension later, AND then Mo still went ahead and did it).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 7, 2010 5:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
I think he’s good at identifying parts we need (pretty much everyone he’s acquired so far has been a good player, and has filled a requirement for us) but, so far, pretty bad at acquiring them at a good price.
My feeling is that GMs, in general, are getting better and better, with the increased acceptance of more advanced stats & scouting methods, and the worst of the “old school” gradually losing their jobs. It’s going to be harder and harder to put together a consistently winning team on a middling (or even high-middling) payroll, unless you have a GM who’s great at swinging below market-value deals, or a fantastic farm system. Whilst I like our scouting/development guys on the farm, the thing that worries me is that our minor league system is (at least until next year’s draft) one of the weakest in baseball, and our GM has shown no aptitude for acquiring players below market value. That’s not a recipe for sustained success.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 7, 2010 5:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize....
that if Walt was still here we wouldn’t have been in the payroll situation to even be bidding for Matt Holliday right? You can blame Mo on this if you want, but it’s DeWitt writing the checks and obviously Bill feels that his was a good deal for the Cardinals.
You very rarely, if ever, get an MVP level player to sign for less than market value, and this deal is EXACTLY market value, as multiple people have pointed out. We didn’t overpay, unless you make the naive assumption that nobody else was interested.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 6, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my assumption is that no-one else was interested in 7 years or greatly exceeding $120m
that might be an incorrect assumption. I guess we don’t know. There certainly weren’t any credible rumours of any other teams being involved; that doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen, of course, but I assume if Boras had a $100m+ offer on the table from Boston, or NYY, or LAA or something, we’d have heard about it. I remain utterly unconvinced by the Baltimore rumours, and I expect Holliday would’ve had limited interest in going there if we got anywhere near what they were offering anyhow.
The market is dictated by demand, IMO, and it seemed like, after a couple of weeks of rumours suggesting that demand for Holliday was unexpectedly extremely low, we signed him to a huge deal that he might, with a prevailing wind, be worth, in $/WAR terms, in an offseason in which free agent values have been pretty low and everyone (so far) has had to settle for less than they wanted.
You do realize….
that if Walt was still here we wouldn’t have been in the payroll situation to even be bidding for Matt Holliday right? You can blame Mo on this if you want, but it’s DeWitt writing the checks and obviously Bill feels that his was a good deal for the Cardinals.
Yup. Jocketty is a pretty awful GM by modern (i.e. last couple of years) standards. I said Mo was merely below-average, so I prefer him to Walt. I don’t think it’s a terrible deal, and I’m excited to see Holliday, going forward, but I can’t help but feel that a more shrewd or hard-nosed GM could’ve got him for less, which was the feeling I got when we traded for him, and the feeling I got when we signed Lohse to a stupid deal, and the feeling I got when we traded for DeRo (even though I liked that trade up to a point), and the feeling I got when we signed Pineiro to his last deal. I think Mo has strengths, he’s good at identifying players that we need, but I think (so far) he’s been sub-optimal when it’s come to obtaining those players for a good price.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it occurs to me, since he's staying... and the pie worked (kinda)...
WE CAN EAT ALL THIS PIE.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I actually have some coconut cream pie in the fridge
c’mon over everybody!* *
* * not fang or zoomzoom though
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
finished mine last night
holidays officially over
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
by sportsman on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gawd i would kill for some good coconut cream pie
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist...
…but I have to believe that this makes it an absolute certainty that the Cards and Albert work together on a contract that won’t hamstring the franchise, and that Albert will make sure that his contract won’t make it impossible for the team to pursue deals in the near future.
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
by splhcb67 on Jan 5, 2010 6:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well, glad that's over
not too thrilled with his defense, and dude better stay healthy, but I’m excited nonetheless. shoulda got a better deal though, try 16 mil per year at most
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 6:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's only a mil different. Not THAT big of a deal for the baseball Cardinals.
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
by flipthebird on Jan 5, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
they just overpaid a bit
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
6x16
don’t see why that wasn’t possible
who else would give that
hamfighters?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
by sportsman on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you care about 1 million annually?
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Jan 5, 2010 8:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
all told
it would be $23m less
not chicken feed
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
by sportsman on Jan 5, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
talking about 2 different things
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Jan 5, 2010 11:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
$1 million might buy us, say, Russ Springer
who is a big upgrade over K-Mac/Boggs/whoever in middle relief.
Also, there’s an old GM adage – “look after the millions and the tens-of-millions will look after themselves”.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1 million is less than 1% total annual payroll.
Im not going to get too worked about about it. If you the Cards want Springer they can afford him.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Jan 6, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's an old GM adage?
That can’t be more than like 20 years old.
by arch support on Jan 6, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Orix Blue Wave?
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
by flipthebird on Jan 5, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's naive to think the Cardinals were bidding against no one
when the Angels, Red Sox and Yankees could all easily make room for a left fielder. This talk that we’re bidding against ourselves is silly.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 5, 2010 6:19 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
it's true that our bid had to be
sufficiently high to keep others out of it but the only way any of those 3 were really going to get involved was if they smelled a real bargain. The Cards are better here as a result but are also stuck w/ a huge contract for 7 years when 6 would’ve sealed the deal. Is the 7th year a huge albatross? Probably not but at some point Mo has to call Boras’ bluff and dare him to go play for the O’s.
by chuckb on Jan 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
6 would’ve sealed the deal.
Look, I’m all for questioning the GM but I don’t understand this. Did Moezeliak think, “Let’s throw out another year just to screw ourselves down the line?” I doubt Mozeliak started at 7 years.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 5, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How do we *know* six would have sealed the deal?
If it would have, wouldn’t it have?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we should have walked away before going to seven.
if we had to sign felipe lopez and smoltz instead, that wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we should have.
But, that’s a different argument. How can we criticize Mo by stating that Holliday/Boras would have settled for a six-year deal when we don’t know know they would have so settled?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's not really the point.
in negotiation, you have a breaking point. if you stick to your breaking point, either the other party agrees to your terms or you break it off and do otherwise.
if holliday isn’t worth a 7y/$120m extension (which is an open question), then you have to stick to whatever you think is appropriate (6y/$100m) and be ready to walk away. if you don’t have a walk-away number (especially against scott boras), you’re just going to end up letting the other party run the negotiations. so, walking away and not getting screwed are two sides of the same coin.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Although this deal makes me think that payroll is probably going to go up to somewhere around $105-$110M or so over the next 4 seasons to make the team competitive. I think we’re going to see ownership spend more to try and win championships as they did in the early part of the decade. Maybe $120M was the walking away point — maybe they came down to where we were from their perch at $140M or whatever. We really don’t know.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think we will see a payroll increase to about $110MM to keep Yadi, Wainwright, Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that is one hell of a core.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But,
the Cards aren’t going to trial and getting a six-year deal. It’s a seventh year or no Matt Holliday and we needed Matt Holliday in our lineup as much as he needed our contract, if not more. Perhaps seven years was the Cards’ walkaway number, which, if true, one can certainly quibble and I’m more than open to the quibbling. But, again, how do we know that seven years wasn’t Boras and Holliday’s last and best offer? We don’t. All I am questioning is how we can criticize the deal because it is seven years in length and six years would have been enough to sign Holliday when we were not in the room and are not privy to the negotiations’ back-and-forth?
All we have heard of the negotiations is what Heyman has echoed from Scott Boras. I’m not willing to criticize based on that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
six is better than seven, but seven is better than zero.
Everyone wants to focus on how few teams were in on Holliday, but how about how few runs we scored last year… and how few options we had to improve if we didn’t sign him.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
by guayzimi on Jan 5, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeppers
I am not happy about the years, but I am giddy about having Holliday back.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
most of the “chatter” earlier today talked about an eight year deal proposed by the Cardinals (at, presumably about the same total, or maybe the $128M mentioned several times). Holliday asked for, apparently, one year less in order to raise the AAV. (Well, OK, probably Boras, but…)
So the Cards seemed to be willing to go up to 8 (eight!) years but at a lower AAV. Six would definitely have been preferable, but it might have taken $18-19M/yr to get Holliday to say yes.
by ArkansasTravs on Jan 5, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
last and best
or what
end up like manny?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
by sportsman on Jan 5, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree with this
even if Holliday didn’t figure into the Yankees plans, you’d have to figure there was a price point where they’d say, “eh, screw it,” and just sign him. Hard to think that something like 5/80 wouldn’t prompt that attitude. Then again, there’s a lot of space between 5/80 and 7/120.
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Red Sox have room for a left fielder?
by vivaelpujols on Jan 5, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you missed a verb, there
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"make" room
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jacoby ellsbury
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
There’s no way they’d pass up on Matt Holliday because of Jacoby Ellsbury. If Holliday was available at the right price they’d be on it. We just don’t know what the right price was.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jan 6, 2010 8:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ellsbury is a 2-3 WAR player
There is no way they would pay 17 million a year for a 2 WAR upgrade.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 6, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh come on
he’s broken 2 WAR once. and his 3.3 WAR in ‘08 looks to be entirely due to a huge outlier in UZR that is way out of line with his career. regress him the appropriate 0.5 WAR and he projects as 1.4 WAR player. i’ll even be generous and give him 1.7 WAR on the assumption that his true UZR is somewhere between 6.9 of ’08 and -18.3 of ’09
jacoby ellsbury does not block matt holliday by any stretch of the imagination
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 6, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UZR has his defense fluctuating a lot
However, both the fans scouting report and scouts think VERY highly of his defense. I would call him +5 going forward. His offense is slightly below average, but steals help him. He’s -5 as a hitter. That makes an average player, who is still under team control for the next 3 years.
The Red Sox would NOT pay 17 million for a 3 WAR upgrade, the only reason the Cardinals are going so high is because Craig is probably only a 1 WAR player in left, and I doubt the FO has confidence in him to even do that.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 6, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way they would pay 17 million a year for a 2 WAR upgrade.
But Ellsbury has a lot of value as a “name” player as a trade centrepiece. What if the Padres would consider Ellsbury as a big part of any deal for A-Gon?
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 7, 2010 6:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys,
I was actually the one offering Matt 6/100. He was going to juggle oranges and perform random acts of kindness for the elderly. His damn wife wanted the 7th year though. Leslee knows how to finagle.
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
by flipthebird on Jan 5, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Leslee has to prove herself
Dee Dee sets a high bar
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MOAR LEGO!
(anybody got the original gif?)
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
on the other hand...
@GoElBirdos Cubs fan friend of mine is literally too flustered to speak.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also rumored....
Holliday getting $60M per nut hit by that fly ball in the NLDS.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
TIMMEH K SPEAKS
“I can’t tell you how many players I’ve talked to who’ve played in St. Louis who say: I wanna play here for the rest of my life.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
"he loves it, he lives it, and there's absolutely no chance he's going to get fat and lazy"
thankyouTim.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If that really was a quote, I believe it
he might venture into sucktitude because of age or injury, but you can tell by looking at the guy that he wont get fat or lazy
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Kurkjian, man. Timmeh.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Quote continues:
“…provided they fork over more money than Jason Bay got, ‘cause if not, fuck em. I’ll play in Baltimore.”
by arch support on Jan 5, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's because of the PIE
MOAR PIES for everyone!!
"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."
--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre
by MilCardFan on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
This could look really, really ugly in 2017.
by craig3410 on Jan 5, 2010 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Actually, we'll have a lot of payroll free that year now.
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if the payroll in 2017 is 110M
we still have 93M left!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HOLLIDAY WILL BE A FREE AGENT IN 2017
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FUCK
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we should offer an extension right now
I want Tung Po!
by ILoveTheSt.LouisCardinals on Jan 5, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ask him if he'll promise to finish his career in St. Louis
Then starts “Holliday to Yankees” rumors if he delays giving a concrete answer.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jan 5, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HA!
No option year pick up MO! Balls of steel!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
backloaded or frontloaded makes a difference
The AAV is $17 MM but we don’t know the year by year breakdown. Could be structured like ARod’s ($32M in 2010 to $20M in 2017) or like Bay’s which has a $8.5M bonus, $6.5M salary in 2010 and $16M in 2011-2013.
by ubeddie on Jan 5, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
17 every year
per boras
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
i get this doesn’t necessarily mean that
5:40pm: MLB.com’s Matthew Leach reports the deal will be finalized when Holliday passes his physical, and hears from Holliday agent Scott Boras that the deal will pay the outfielder an even $17MM per season (via Twitter).
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the case though
Holliday kinda alluded to that in his interview on ESPN Radio.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
seems too vanilla
of a contract for Boras. $17M for seven years, NTC and $1M option buyout. Where the plane trips, three room suites on the road, preferred seating tickets, polo lessons for the kids.
I would have thought he’d have some signing bonus but then again he missed last tax year.
by ubeddie on Jan 5, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the yankees will take him in 2014
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i hate to say this,
but STFU
c’mon gdm, put the kid in his place
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what the hell?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't be posting crap like that
it’s a major buzzkill
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it would potentially be a good thing.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
see, and now i have to take this whole subthread back
I crossed the threads and thought you were talking about Pujols.
My goodness, fang might be right?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh god no
pujols + in yankees uniform = fang in tears and very pissed at mo
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he'll end his career as their DH
get used to it, it’s gonna happen
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Jan 6, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe end it there
but i guarantee he won’t sign with them to be a dh. they’ll be dhing teixeira if they want albert
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 6, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So could Demi Moore,
but I’ll take my chances. :)
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
by splhcb67 on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
101 will replay the Gottleib interview shortly.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Makes the Bay contract look really good
I don’t dislike Holliday, but we definately negotiated as if he had all the leverage. I’m sure other teams wanted Holliday, but for 7 years? I doubt it.
Just like the Lohse contract, Mo was way to quick with the trigger. You have to play a little hardball as a gm.
by TheBirds on Jan 5, 2010 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Lohse contract was over the top
but Matt Holliday is no Kyle Lohse.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true, but 120 Million is no 40 million
I’m just pointing out we have a history of overpaying when extending player’s contracts.
by TheBirds on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This wasn't an extension.
This was a free agent signing on the open market.
Who have we overpaid for when extending? Pujols? Molina? Wainwright? No one hates the Lohse contract more than me, but it doesn’t reflect a tendancy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lohse was a pree agent, too, no?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he is Scottish
Free Melodi Dushane
by all4tookie on Jan 5, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He would have been
but that deal got done before the 2008 season actually concluded, so it’s kind of an extension I guess.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought he signed
literally the day after the season ended
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they held him out of the last game he was supposed to pitch
just to work on the deal. Didn’t want him to blow out a shoulder and not be able to sign
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind that free agency doesn't start until November.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So does this leave enough money to sign Smoltz?
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
maybe you should capitalize it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SMOLTZ
(like this?)
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know how I'll feel about this
if we don’t extend pujols.
Dots Miller for HOF. 'cuz a name means everything!
by Oedipa Maas on Jan 5, 2010 6:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well there's no way they made this deal without considering that first
doesn’t make anything certain, but should put us all at ease just a bit more.
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's actually
rhe part that worries me. the contingency plan.
Dots Miller for HOF. 'cuz a name means everything!
by Oedipa Maas on Jan 5, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am listening to Matt Holliday failing to actually describe the terms of his contract.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah like he didn't know the exact numbers..
by riotmute on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
damn you Boras!!!!!!!!
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, he knows the terms
i don’t buy otherwise for a second
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no there was a lot of mumbling and stumbling
like right now
[ho-hum, slightly bored voice] “Yeah, I’m excited about it.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, i noticed that
YOU SOUND PRETTY EXCITED
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"somebody hasn't forgot the dropped ball..."
they say skeptically on 101
OF COURSE WE HAVEN’T.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, personally, I like it...
In 6 years, 17 million will be more like 10 million.
And better spending 17 million on a great player, than 10 on an average one that had a career year. Or two of them.
by DiscoJer on Jan 5, 2010 6:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
In 6 years, 17 million will be more like 10 million.
Yes, money sure has changed since 2004.
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We have new 10s and 5s do we not???
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Jan 5, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And quarters don't have bees on them anymore!
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that's like 25 centiquids.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
centiquid inflation is steep!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mmmmmmmmmmm, not quite
I get what you’re trying to say, but you’re talking about double-digit inflation, which isn’t likely to happen, or FA value being nearly 60% higher than it is now. I don’t see that happening either.
I would guess that $17M in 2016 will be around $14M in their dollars.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but think about it this way
did holliday even get what he was expecting to get on the open market?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
I think he was expecting to get $20M a year and he’s far short of that. I would guess 7Y$140M was what he really, really wanted and the market just dictated that he wasn’t going to get that.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so MARKET adjusted (not necessarily inflation adjusted)
he still could be a steal in 2017.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
depends on how the business of baseball is doing in 7 years and I think it’s hard to say for sure at this point, and how healthy and productive he can be at that time.
Just hope he’s more like Larry Walker and not Brian Giles
I really don’t want to see sub-.800 OPS numbers from Holliday in his age 34-35 and 37 seasons.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd actuallly not complain too much
about 5200 PA’s of an OBP-heavy 137 OPS+ over the next 7 years…
Giles is actually a pretty good-case scenario for H. Over that period, Giles would have been worth something like 170M, assuming a WAR is worth $4.5M.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
by SleepyCA on Jan 5, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I’m just hoping for Larry Walker, LMAO.
I was specifically referring to the age 35-37 seasons for both. Walker was pretty productive to the end and was an above average fielder over that time too. Giles has been below average defensively and offensively for 3 of the past 4 seasons. I would not like to see this happen.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My first thought was Brian Giles was awesome till last year
I still hope the Cardinals sign him
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Giles was pretty kick-ass in 2008
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jan 5, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, which current Cardinals should we not get too attached to
because they’re gone once they hit FA eligibility?
Wainwright, Molina and maybe Rasmus?
by craig3410 on Jan 5, 2010 6:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Waino.
Molina and Pujols are a unit. Raz will get locked down Evan Longoria-style.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Jan 5, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope he is that stupid.
Or that good.
Free Melodi Dushane
by all4tookie on Jan 5, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They do share the same agent
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 5, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he does have a kid to think about.
and what baseball town is so idyllic and full of pie for a young kid
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
braintwin #2.
that’s what I was thinking.
*Ghostrider isn’t around, so I guess you’re it. congrats?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
luddy
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
by sportsman on Jan 5, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he can ride away in a limo right now for all i care.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not worrying about that yet , as it regards Wainwright
that’s so far down the road, we don’t even know if he will still have an arm left
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
luddy
and probably yadi
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp
Waino has a nice club option for 2012 ($9M) & 2013 ($12M) and Carp has a $1 M buyout in 2012. Also Waino’s club options vest if he finishes in the top 5 of CY Young voting in 2010 or 2011.
by ubeddie on Jan 5, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
both?
so he needs one cy young vote next season for both options to vest? i love waino, but that seems like a gimme
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it has to be '10 & 11
09 means nothing
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 5, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
next season is not '09
but that answers my question. thanks
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly hope
that those options end up being vested.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp's likely to not get re-signed
unless he’s willing to sign for under market, probably substantially so.
by ArkansasTravs on Jan 5, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think it needs to be considered
if we even want carp around in 2013
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm so, so hoping he takes over as coach
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
me too
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but
i think he’ll want to pitch in 2013. unless he’s completely broke down
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he already is
saved our season by righting Wainer early in the summer
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying make it official.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Jan 5, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true, true.
but… he’d need a binder of his own. should we really be risking his fingers while he’s an active player?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody will have to pry that binder out of Dunc's cold dead fingers.....
I could only think of a couple of people up for that.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Jan 5, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp does seem to read it on a regular basis, though.
so he’ll need one of his own.
maybe Wainer can give him a tablet and stylus with optional touchscreen.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True
he’ll be what, 36, 37 then? The idea of him staying with the Cards in some capacity, say a roving pitching instructor, is very appealing to me.
by ArkansasTravs on Jan 6, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
y'know... I know it's wrong and horrible but I wouldn't be as sad if Pujols walked...
if we couldn’t keep Wainwright.
(also I would still be more sad if Pujols walked without taking Yadi with him. I’m weird, I know.)
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
er, I don't know if that sentence even makes sense.
but you know what I mean.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I get it
It’d be sadder to see Waino go. I agree. As much as I love Pujols, I don’t think I’d cry if we got a ridiculous spread of talent for him.
by Mulliganstew on Jan 5, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I’d probably trade him now for someone like Longoria, or maybe even Utley or HanRam.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 6, 2010 5:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
7 years - better than 8 years
this is my new tagline
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jan 5, 2010 6:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
remember when Boras wanted 8/$160mn?
this is better than that. i’ll bet we average +2 surplus WAR every year over the life of the contract. which is not to say that i won’t be complaining about it in 2016, but it’s probably a pretty good deal for the Cards.
by kindred on Jan 5, 2010 6:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
bait and switch.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday really should have taken the Rox offer in hindsight.
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except maybe he didn't want to wear purple any longer.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Jan 5, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He wanted a longer guaranteed deal
Sure, the money was better, but that wasn’t what he wanted.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wanted NTC
IIRC Colorado wasn’t willing to give the full no trade clause.
by ubeddie on Jan 5, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boras floated 8/160 as a starting point
It’s no different than when Damon asked for 90something, or it took 200M to even talk about Beltran, or 300M to even talk about A-Rod.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish BCB would hurry up and start crying
over this deal, lamenting their diminishing prospects in the Central over the next few years. That would make me feel better about this deal.
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Did that blog die in the last month or something?
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Al killed it...
with his interminable nostalgia.
No one cares about the photos!!!
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
by guayzimi on Jan 5, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, they've been busily debating whether
2010 should be pronounced “two thousand ten” or “twenty ten.” Asshats.
by mattyp on Jan 5, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs