Viva El Birdos Hall of Fame Community Vote
by DanUpBaby on Jan 5, 2010 5:00 AM EST
Email
PrintI've got a five hour drive today, and then I'm done with the danup endless christmas tour of 2009; this means, unequivocally, that the Cardinals will sign Matt Holliday sometime between now and noon, when I am, say, car-singing the harmonica solo in "My Name is Jonas" and thinking about eating a McDonalds breakfast.
I've put the other front-page posters on some ominously colored alert in the interim. But nothing says travel day post like something I have to collate later, and with that in mind I hereby offer you: the official VEB Hall of Fame Ballot. The Hall rules apply—select any number of players, up to ten—and we'll be using their list of players, much to Will Clark's chagrin.
Some interesting players are on this year's list, even though most of them don't have a chance at even hitting the 5% window to return next year. Ray Lankford we discussed already, but there's also...
- Mike Jackson, the prototypical set-up man, the rich club's Dave Weathers. So few relievers are just above average every year—it seems like the only consistent ones are the superstars. But Mike Jackson carried a career ERA of 3.42 over an incredible 1,005 games while having just two gaudy relief seasons. He wasn't as good as Bruce Sutter... but was he that much worse than Bruce Sutter? (As much as I rag on Bruce Sutter, I'm really just concerned about our general lack of a coherent Hall of Fame Reliever idea. Sometimes I wish we could just stop everything some boring February and convene an official meeting of the BBWAA and the BBWAA-haters—everybody in a room until we decide who belongs in the Hall of Fame and who belongs in the Hall of Feared Closers.)
- Kevin Appier, who was unfortunate enough to have what amounts to a Hall of Fame peak in Kansas City, during the start of the Home Run 90s, before he blew his arm out. 239 starts, 1644 innings, a 140 ERA+ between 1990 and 1997... and a record of 103-74, with just three years over 15 wins. The years after his arm injury were at best uninspiring—a few years as the scout's proverbial Number Three Guy, more injury troubles—but his peak, thrown as it was into the teeth of the new live ball era, is as good as any of the second tier of that clutch of great nineties pitchers.
- Pat Hentgen, who went to what is now known as the Pat Hentgen School of Blowing Your Arm Out and Winning a Cy Young. Since 1993 only he and Randy Johnson have pitched 260 innings more than once, and nobody else did it back to back. It's easy to say he was never the same afterward, and it probably shortened his career... but he was never the same before that, either. So go boldly toward the record books now, and worry about being able to comb your own hair later. He earns style points for having the last full season of his career wrenched out of his arm by the expert on the subject, Dave Duncan.
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Happy Mungday...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordian_calendar ummm yeah Mungday… how bout that…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i've always quite liked the Happy Mungdays
“Step On” was a classic.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
i rescued the princess!
another dream reached. vote for none of em. umpirre spitters don’t get in the first ballot.
when does RB Fallstrom get inducted to the hall of fame?
Poor Appier
He was screwed up by KC’s messy handling of a 4-man rotation. They burnt his arm out in a stretch of ten or so starts and he never came back the same. I believe it was Baseball Prospectus that covered it in detail a couple years back, and their theory is (was?) that a 4-man rotation can be better than a 5-man as long as you don’t get the pitch counts too high.
Long-time lurker here, first post, please be gentle. Mistakes will be made …
Originally from northeast Missouri, been living in Japan for 15 years now. 45 y.o., grew up listening to the ends of games as reported by Jack and Mike on an earphone connected to a multi-band radio at night in bed when my parents thought I was sleeping. Attended Mizzou and was a freshman in ’82 when the Cards finally rewarded my loyalty through all the stinky 70s teams by winning the crown.
Pleasure being aboard! (Almost feels I have posted here before, now that I have described my fanroots a little… The Yahoo board, perhaps?)
Simba for the HOF!
a warm welcome to you sir!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Hey there!
Bring logic and level-headedness to most of your comments and you’ll be welcome here forever!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, and, bring brownies too.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I Try My Bestest....
Here’s a few moore:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
logic & level headeness? really?
how the f did i get here then?
and konichiwa tokyo.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Welcome welcome
Always a good thing to have more comment-folk. Stick around. I’d say only about 35-40% of us bite.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
hall of fame biting average apparently
Some people have their own bowling ball and their own bowling shoes and no friends.
My ballot is...
Alomar, Blyleven, Larkin, Martinez, McGwire, Raines, Trammell, and Dale Murphy. I’m too young to remember anything but a washed-up Dale Murphy but he certainly had a HOF peak even if it all came crashing down early in his career. If we could only combine Murphy’s 20s w/ Edmonds’ 30s…now that’s a first-ballot guy (I hate the first-ballot thing, a HOFer is a HOFer, right?).
Same as mine
with the addition of Martinez (still haven’t decided how to value a DH, but incline toward “weakly”) and Murphy (HoF-level part of his career was much too short). I also considered Lee Smith, but the bar for closers is exceptionally high.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 5, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Google Documents/Forms
Rock! It worked just fine. Oddly enough, in my classes today I’m showing my students how to use Google documents so I can avoid having 500 pgs. of sophomore research papers coming to me in 6-8 weeks….
Of course, I’ll still have 500 pgs. of sophomore research papers, but at least they’ll be in electronic form. Makes it a little easier.
You don't mind reading all of those off a computer screen?
That would bother me… but then again carrying around that many pages is also a pain in the ass.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sweet!
Google forms kicks butt!!
:=8)
I know you’ll all hold it against me, but I had to vote for Edgar Martinez. Yes, he was a 1 dimensional player – all he did was be the cowsumate professional hitter of his era. And he got a ton of walks for all you Billy Beaners who’d rather see a guy take a freebie than hit. Dude had a career .933 OPS in 18 years! A couple of injuries aside, EMart probably would have had 3,000 hits. He’s still a marginal guy, overall, but I’d vote him in over McGriff, Mattingly, Raines, and a few udders on that list as well.
Just the MooCow opinion.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
not quite the same thing
…But I had to vote for Smith. I can’t see how he doesn’t get in even though he was just a reliever. But at least there’s precedent. Shouldn’t the hall have just a special reliever section? And if so, why not a special DH section?
Dots Miller for HOF. 'cuz a name means everything!
I Voted for Lee Smith Too....
…he was just a beast in his day. Closers were not valued back then, and now many cowsider them to be over-valued, but they are now a very important part of the way the modern game is played. Like udder positions, the best ones are usually the ones who are cowsistant the longest, and Lee Smith was that.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I loved Lee Smith ...
Shambling in from the bullpen, looking immensely peeved that his nap had been interrupted, intent on finishing the game so he could resume the nap.
ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss
+1
Lee Smith was my favorite reliever of the 1980’s and 1990’s and got the most saves of any pitcher from 1980-1999. I’ll never forget the day the Cubs traded Lee Smith to Boston for Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi. Smith blew 12 saves in 1987, and the Cubs felt like they just had to unload him. That was one of the worst trades the Cubs ever made.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Luckily the Hall has realized
the DH is ricockulous and it trying to wipe all memories of it from the game… At least that’s what I like to think…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Not to be a dick
And he got a ton of walks for all you Billy Beaners who’d rather see a guy take a freebie than hit.
…but have you ever read Moneyball? He was building a team around slow, high OBP, moderate power hitters b/c the market was not valuing them properly and therefore he could get them for cheap. He’s not had a team put together like that since 2004. If you have , do you realize a walk is not more valuable than a hit, but it’s a thousand times better than an out and guys who walk a lot usually have other skills that can be logically connected to their walking? What you’ve written here is sort of a back-hoofed pot-shot, even if you didn’t intend it that way. Careful, Mr. Cow!
With all of that said, I completely agree that Martinez was a HoFer. The guy could absolutely mash. As I said below, the DH issue never would have come up if he’d played in a big market’s hype machine and/or was able to stand over at 1b and act like he was playing there.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, it was a Pot-Shot....
…although tongue-in-cheek.
;=8)
of course a walk is better than an out, but I have herd the walk praised by some to such an extent that it is curiously implied that a batter should not even bother to swing because a sure walk was better than a possible out. That sort of retrograde thinking gets my udders in a twist, and the collective moo-ing from the herd over such an anathema is most unpleasant indeed. Take a freebie, yes, but a hit is always better.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Things like this...
are why I love VEB more than any other blog. Creativity and inclusiveness of the community… s’what it’s all about with a blog.
Who has two thumbs and got a shout out on KTRS this morning?
by Mister Eff on Jan 5, 2010 9:32 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Outstanding
I do believe this picture should appear anytime we mention the man.
"But as the leadoff guy that inning, my job is to get on base and let guys drive me in." - Albert Pujols 8/20/09, base-clogger.
You rob a liquor store and that is the description they used?
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty awful description
That could be anybody.
Looks like you got punched in the chin rather than actual hair.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I am offended by that statement
Since that is also the only place I can grow facial hair.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
/sadface
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
why did THIS GUY
get a shout out?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
This guy's got jokes
And he brought them to the party.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
Maracek said he didn't know why Boras, Mo, and DeWitt were meeting in Austin at the 6:15 sports report
so I tweeted him while I was driving to work that it’s b/c Holliday is staying there this offseason and he mentioned me reporting that at the 6:45 sports report.
i told you guys that last night!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Nobody cares
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
i've always liked Maracek
i like him a bit more now
non-douchiness FTW!!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
That's who I thought he meant the whole time.
"But as the leadoff guy that inning, my job is to get on base and let guys drive me in." - Albert Pujols 8/20/09, base-clogger.
Yesterday, I lamented MLB's fan unfriendliness (based primarily on Blackout Restrictions for TV).
A handful of folks felt that baseball’s new technology use made them one of the best league’s for fans. Yahoo’s Big League Stew put a list together of the top 10 stories we’re likely to see in the “’Teens,” which has a similar sentiment I thought I’d pass along.
8. MLB Advanced Media continues to rise? — One of the biggest baseball business stories in the 2000s was how baseball adapted to the Internet better than any other sports league and then launched its own network at the start of 2009. Both successes increased revenue streams for the league, but the pressure to innovate with new technology will continue well into the ‘Teens. Here’s hoping they start allowing their video to be embedded across the web.
10. Rising cost of games — The cost of going to a baseball game will always be a story, but with the advent of variable pricing and the class system at new Yankee Stadium it’ll be interesting to see if this is the decade that completely blocks middle class families from attending games. But with increasing technology and great ways to watch games on your big screen TV, your computer and even your smart phone, will it even matter? A titanic shift in the way we consume baseball could be coming.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
On the statements in bold...
I definitely feel that way about football, and I’m sure lots of other people do. I just don’t think it’s worth it to bother. But I dunno… there’s just something about hearing the bat crack and singing during the seventh inning stretch. I still feel like live baseball is such a different and positive experience from watching on television that I would really miss it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I equate live baseball with live hockey
You can watch the game on TV, but it’s a different experience going to the ballpark itself, just like watching hockey in person is so much different than watching it on TV.
I think football and basketball, for the most part, are pretty similar experiences whether you’re there or watching at home — in fact, I’d almost rather watch football at home most of the time, the beer is cheaper.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah football live is a let down
Even when the Rams were good it was not that enjoyable to see them live. But I used to love to go Mizzou games. Their was a lot more energy in the crowds so who knows.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Hence...
Jerry Jones building a stadium with a huge fucking TV in it.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Another late-empire, post-affluence...
cathedral. 30 years from now we’re going to be warehousing lunatics in that thing.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
The same thing was said about the Astrodome though
And that building is actually more green than a lot of other stadia built in the last few years. Not LEED certified green, but for the size of the complex it’s pretty impressive.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Is that Urkel or the black twin of the old Six Flags guy?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
My money is on Brother Mouzoune from the Wire
it’s definitely him.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
S-s-s-s A-a-a-a F-f-f-f E-e-e-e T-t-t-t Y-y-y-y Safe, dance!
We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
‘Cause your friends don’t dance and if they don’t dance
Well they’re no friends of mine
I say, we can go where we want to
A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
And we can dance
(dances in chair)
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry, but could you rephrase in GIF form?
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
HFS
®
sometimes it’s really hard to be a Cowboys fan
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I never understood baseball until I went to games
You can’t get camera angles on every part of the field without losing details.
Not worried till they perfect holograms. No spoilers, prophet!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Yeah NFL games are kind of a drag
I try to get down to the Dome once a year or so, but it’s been harder the last few years as my girls have been aging and getting involved with stuff. Anyway, it’s expensive, you have to park and get out (blech) and there are so many commercial breaks that the game seems really punctuated. Plus, the Rams are sucktastic. Back in the Greatest Show days and up until the end of Linehan’s first year the teams were at least semi-competitive and the dome used to get fairly loud and stuff, so that was fun… Now? Well it’s a tomb.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe it's just because I have always seen baseball live
but I can’t imagine not having the option to go to a game. It’s something I plan every year to do. And not just one or two games but many and in different cities too.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
One of the biggest baseball business stories in the 2000s was how baseball adapted to the Internet better than any other sports league and then launched its own network at the start of 2009. Both successes increased revenue streams for the league …. Here’s hoping they start allowing their video to be embedded across the web.
This is hilarious, because Yahoo’s hockey blog (Puck Daddy) had virtually the same statement about the NHL’s adapting to the Internet. Except the NHL does allow embedded video. (Does MLB still not? Tossers.)
(Since I rarely comment here — {checks history…whoa, I’ve commented just once since SBN 2.0 launched} — I’m not sure why this one brought me out of lurkerville. I guess because it’s a funny reflection of silos and sports niches. As in: “The sport I follow most closely is definitely better at Activity X than any of the other sports I follow far less.” How do you know? “Because I do.” Score one for MLB and NHL PR, or at least for general fanaticism.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
Gameday versus NHL equivelant
I have tried to watch hockey using their version of gameday and while it is interesting to see where the last shot happened from and such it isn’t the same as watching pitch by pitch. Baseball is slow enough that following from the internet or my mobile phone actually lets me see every peice of action.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Yeah, I agree in that department the speed of the game gives MLB the win. The passive nature of baseball makes it infinitely more suited to that way of following a game. Same with SBN game threads, actually: There’s only so much funny you can type before you’re missing the game (in hockey).
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
I was comparing to the NFL (of which I am a big fan) in my comments yesterday
and MLB is miles ahead. The only way to legally stream NFL games right now is if you satisfy one of the following:
(1) already subscribe to HD sunday ticket ($450 or so, only available through directv)
(2) live in Manhattan
(3) live outside the US
by brackenthebox on Jan 5, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
they were testing a stand alone streaming sunday ticket there this year
I’m guessing it was supposed to be a rigorous test given the high volume of people in the area, but I don’t know for sure. Hopefully they’ll have a streaming package available in the next couple years for those of us in the US who can’t get or don’t want directv.
by brackenthebox on Jan 5, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I've always secretly hoped the NFL drops the ball on new media
…and loses some of its stranglehold on the American consciousness as a result. That’s a league that could use being knocked down a few pegs.
Lighthouse Hockey: Eyes on Tavares, mug full of Moulson.
i don't think people will stop going to games,
many teams last year started doing promo’s to keep fans interested like slashing prices, food & drink specials, etc. the Yanks & mets even slashed prices on their most expensive seats when they realized no one was going to pay those prices for them. even in a horrible economy people came out. baseball unlike any sport is part of what makes America great. it’s in our DNA. as long as the owners keep that in mind by & keep prices reasonable, which they showed last year they are willing to do, and at least try to have a competitive team each season, attendance will be fine.
but if they don’t get their act together with those archaic tv blackouts, all hell will break loose.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I went with
Lee Smith, Dale Murphy, Mark McGwire, and Andre Dawson.
that's pretty much who I'd pick
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
i can't vote for andre, i just can't do it
he & dale fall into that hall of very good players along with don mattingly
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I had to do a lot of checking on stats to fill out my ballot
Since I didn’t start seriously following baseball and getting to know baseball stats until college, I have little other recourse when trying to make evaluations. Although, given my age, I wouldn’t necessarily have had realistic or fair memories of most of these players in their heyday anyway. I remember thinking Lee Smith was a bit more awesome than he really was.
That said, I plan to keep loudly trying to make a case for Jim Edmonds when the time comes.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
How about that Beltre contract?
I read about it and thought, “Wow, what a steal for Boston!” Of course, then Rob Neyer provided the proper context:
You’re going to see this deal referred to as a steal in some quarters. Unless you’re a doctor with an intimate knowledge of Beltre’s current physiology, you really can’t know that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That's the caveat with almost any injured player
but there’s no reasonable way for fans to assess health of players making it kind of a moot point. What I found most interesting was the rumor that he turned down several multiyear deals to take a short term contract. I don’t know if that’s him trying to pull a Lohse or wanting to play for a specific team or whatever.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Perhaps he didn't turn them down at the same time.
the Phillies were apparently one of the clubs with the offer, and the A’s the other. The Phillies, most logically, offered it early, and when Boras/Beltre said, ‘thanks, but we’ll wait’, Amaro moved on to Polanco.
Beltre probably wanted to stay away from the Coliseum and figured this was an agreeable alternative to continuing to wait.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jan 5, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
that just seems pedantic
but under the assumption he can put up the numbers he did last year, he’s worth 1yr/9m.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Shouldn't one be pedantic when talking about spending $9MM?
Even the Red Sox?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i think the red sox
should be thorough. i don’t think sports writers should be pedantic. “there might be things you don’t know!” well, of course. when is that not true?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Yeah...
..pedanticity isn’t ner…oh wait, caught myself! DASS ES VERBOTEN!
:=8O
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Not to get all pedantic or anything...
but isn’t the noun form “pedantry”?
8 year olds, Dude…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i really like "pedanticity"
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
isn't that what gets people thrown in jail?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
one who participates in pedantry
is a pedant?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
don't know
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
So you have no frame of reference here?
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
And as long as we're being pedantic ...
DAS IST VERBOTEN!
ceterum censeo, delendo est Joe Strauss
by alberich on Jan 5, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
empfohlen!
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Seems pretty straightforward...
Boston is the best place for RH pull hitters and it’s a big stage. If he repeats 2004 he’ll make Bay money or more; if he repeats 2005-‘09 he’ll get what he would have gotten if he had signed a multi-year deal this off-season.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
no
not even close.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
it's more than just that
it’s the AAV of all contracts. they add 16.5 for lackey, 9 for beltre, and like 7.5 for cameron
2009 plus those puts them at 154
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I think you have to break $170M in 2010 for the luxury tax
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
you do
just saying, they’re getting close before i even include arb raises. plus, that 121 probably isn’t accurate for the total AAVs of all contract. they might be in the early stages of some backloaded contracts. i just don’t care enough about boston to look
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Papelbon is the only guy they have to worry about in Arb
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
pedroia is still pre arb?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
They still aren't going to be close
Here’s their payroll obligations right now. Including Lackey and Beltre (and the money they owe to Lugo, Wagner, and Alex Gonzalez) they’re at $144M for next year and only have arb raises the Papelbon (~$9M), Kotchman (~$4.5M), Hermida (~$4M), Okajima (~$1.5M), Delcarman (~$0.8M), and Ramirez (~$0.8M).
Add all that up and they’re at ~$164.5M, which is still plenty below the tax and they’re all but done with FA at this point. They still might deal Lowell and shed a few million, and they might not sign Okajima at all and just let him go.
Closer than they looked orginally, but a far cry from going over it yet.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
that's only 5 away!
that’s pretty damn close i would say
i came up with this, but i didn’t know some of their guys and didn’t know who was under team control. i was pretty close on my first guess
drew – 14
ortiz – 13
lowell – 12.5
beckett – 10
lugo – 9
daisuke – 8.67
papelbon – 8 (WAG)
youk – 10.3125
varitek – 10
pedroia – 6.75
okajimi – 3 (WAG)
saito – 3 (WAG)
lopez – 2 (WAG)
tazawa – 1.1
lester – 6
delcarmen – 1 (WAG)
ramirez – 1 (WAG)
ellsbury – .5
buchholz – .5
cameron – 7.5
beltre – 9.5
lackey – 16.5
153.8325
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
tek getting paid 10
completely blew my mind…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
The greatest lie that Boras ever told
was telling the Red Sox that they couldn’t win without Jason Varitek and that he would be worth more than 90% of all major league catchers because of this.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Jan 5, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but did he put the little "C" on him?
that’s worth millions right there
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm not sure that's right (about Veritek)
I thought last year he signed a $5M deal with a two-fold option (a team option at $x and a player option at something below $5M, like $3M). I assume he exercised the player option.
That is wholly from one-year-old, resin-congested memory. Where did you get $10M? That seems like his previous contract. There’s no way he got that last off-season when nobody would sign him and the Sox just did him a PR-friendly favor.
Varitek, Jason c 11.020 Scott Boras 1 yr/$5M (09)+10 m opt
so, i was wrong. his AAV is 7.5
he’s still getting 10 this year, though
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
unless
10 is the year and ‘m’ stands for mutual
it does say 3MM under ’10, but i assume that was the buyout
i think you’re right, now. his aav is 4
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
exactly
That’s what I remember. It was a $5M deal last year with a team/mutual option for $10M or a player option for $3M. He exercised the player option, I think. His AAV is $4M.
So my mind shouldn't be blown???
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Nope
Your sense of all that is fair and decent in this world was correct. Not even the Red Sox are willing to pay Varitek $10M at this stage of his career.
Whew...
now I can go back to my strict drug regimen to keep my mind limber…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Saito won't be back
- I doubt Delcarmen and Ramirez get $1M in their Arb 1 year.
- Lackey makes $18M next season, then $16.xxx after that.
- Papelbon will get $9M, I’m almost sure of it.
- I would guess that they’re going to deal Lowell after he proves he can hit in ST next year. Sure, they’ll probably eat $6-$8M of that deal, but that frees up $4M more.
- Dice-K might also get dealt if they can’t swing a Bucholz type deal for Adrian Gonzalez.
I’ll just put it this way: I don’t see a snowball’s chance in hell that they end up over the tax at any point next year.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
They just traded Kotchman to the M's
so that dumps about $3M or so depending on what his arb award ends up being.
Which means Branyan isn’t likely to be back in Seattle, hmmmmmmmmmmm, 3B?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
More than being disappointed . . .
The Beltre deal makes be laugh uncontrollably at just about every deal inked between 2006 and up to (and including) the Kyle Lohse deal in 2008. Do you remember a rapidly declining Jeff Jenkins getting $30M from the Phillies? Gary Matthews getting $55M from the Angels for making one crazy catch? Juan Pierre getting the same from the Dodgers without making any crazy catches? Even the Twins splurged by giving Nick Punto the same guaranteed money as Beltre will get at the end of the 2008 season (albeit for 2 seasons of Nick Punto . . . which I am not entirely sure is better than one season of Nick Punto).
I think the economy...
…has actually helped baseball contracts somewhat. Times are good, why not toss tens of millions at Juan Effing Pierre for all those singles and steals and kindnesses (is that a word?)? Gary Matthews had a season out of line with all of his others and made one of the greatest catches ever, sure he’s good… $55M!!! And so on…
Now it seems that teams are thinking twice about those deals. I bet having more stat-minded guys around FO’s helps too, but when there’s more fear-of-spending it keeps guys like Coletti and Sabean from going nutzo. That’s my wild-ass-guess anyway.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
is there any reason
to read the 350 comments in last night’s overflow?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
mostly about TCU and Boise bowl game
There wasn’t an immense amount of Holliday discussion since the article Strauss posted didn’t really have anything new in it.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
kinda figured
oh well
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Nope.
Unless you want to learn about technical music stuff digitization of LPs.
Now with extra feisty!
me like technical music and digitalization
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Long time lurker.....first time poster
Enjoy reading all these comments and getting some good laughs everyday fellas!
I filled out my ballot: Alomar, Blyleven, Larkin, Martinez, McGwire, Smith, Trammel. Seriously considered Dawson, but…..voting for a former Cub seemed like a “Cardinal Sin”…ha!
Considered Murphy too, but he basically trampled me whenever I was trying to get his autograph as a kid. So, I pretty much consider him to be an Asshat! Got a picture with and autograph from Tito Landrum and Darrell Porter that day, which helped make up for the Murphy incident though.
by One Flew Over The Cardinals Nest on Jan 5, 2010 10:32 AM EST reply actions
Welcome, love the name
And Dawson isn’t deserving, so screw that Flubbie.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
DARRELL PORTER FOR THE HOF
hey guy. Welcome! I, too, like the handle.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome!
Like lots of people have said… Awesome name.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
one flew over the cuckoo's nest is one of the best books I've read
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
i like your name, i hope you can live up to it
welcome aboard
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Long time lurker also-minimal poster
I’ve posted a few times, but mainly I enjoy seeing what all of you “regulars” have to say. I voted for Alomar, Larkin, McGwire and Smith, I didn’t use any statistical methods with my vote, just my memories of what all of these guys did for baseball.
by CycloneCardinal on Jan 5, 2010 10:50 AM EST reply actions
Are you ISU Cyclone Cardinal?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Cyclones & Cardinals
I’m an ISU Cyclone as well as a Cardinal fan!
by CycloneCardinal on Jan 5, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
wow, some serious lurker love today
welcome! I was in the same boat as you this time in ’08.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
so run away now CC
you don’t wanna end up like the monk!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i wonder what made them all come out of the lurker closet today?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I have a sneaking...
suspicion we are going to see Mo sign Tejada for 1/8 or 2/12. I was somewhat happy about this, but then I looked up his BR page – the guy has 37 walks in his last 1,330 plate appearances. That is difficult to even believe. Do we want this on our team?
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
no
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Not when that money could have gotten us Adrian Beltre
If he signs Tejada it better be on a one year deal for less than $4M and to play 3B.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
that wouldn't be too bad
but assuming we sign Holliday, we’re going to have very limited resources left and the priority absolutely needs to be pitching
I just don't see him being any better than Freese in the same number of AB's
I’d much rather roll the dice on Russel Branyan’s defense to platoon with Freese at 3B and hit in the two hole because of his good on-base ability. I think Branyan could be healthy for 400 PA’s next year playing the hot corner and his left handed, high OBP would look good with he and Skip in front of Albert against righties.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
+1 on Branyan
as you know, I love me some Branyan (if there’s cash for him) and some Cust (if, as seems increasingly unlikely, we don’t end up with Holliday). I do feel, however, that Holliday makes it slightly less important to add anything at 3B (as we don’t really need that big bat anymore) and makes adding to the pitching side of the ball a bit more important.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I get that feeling also....
Would probably start at 3rd, and be the backup shortstop that we could use. Usually amongst league leaders in hits and has some pop. Probably a pretty decent number 2 hitter imo.
by One Flew Over The Cardinals Nest on Jan 5, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I don't believe I would
He’s an aging hitter who has basically told walking to go eff itself. His power has dropped off too, so his value would lie almost entirely in his ability to get hits, which again could drop off too considering he’s getting old. I think he could play 3rd, if he were willing to move (and I think he’d have to b/c Boog has earned the benefit of the doubt) but he’s going be kind of expensive compared to a Freese or Craig.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
I just dunno where that money's coming from
but I’d be fairly pissed if we sign Tejada to that deal and start the season with Franklinstein closing and Garcia as our 5th starter. And even more pissed when Joe Crede signs back with the twins for about $2m.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
If he bats second
I’m not too worried about him not walking. He would hopefully see a ton of strikes and even fewer of the sliders he can’t hit anymore. At 2/12, I’d take it. 1/8 seems a tad too high.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think Tejada is a win and half better than Freese?
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
I have zero confidence in Freese to a) stay healthy b) not completely flame out.
His been involved in incidents in 2 off-season, one in which he injured himself and the other in which he was arrested. He kept his injury last season a secret until it reached a point he physically couldn’t perform because of it.
If you asked me if I thought he’d be better than Allen Craig, no…I don’t think he would be. But the Cardinals seem intent on Craig NOT playing 3B.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Agree with this...
Got a real bad feeling about Freese, and I’ll bet you La Russa is angling for someone else as well.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
if i were la russa
and didn’t need to be concerned with the org beyond next year, i would be too. but if we sign holliday, i say we pick up calero and call it an offseason
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
smoltz?
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
doubt we have the money
i bet he wants at least 6
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i don't think he'll be better than craig
necessarily. probably be close. i think it’s kind of silly and baseless, though, to claim a lack of confidence in his ability to stay healthy. i guess maybe he gets in a car accident again, but that’s not exactly the same thing as chris carpenter’s arm hanging on with duct tape
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I'm not worried about him getting injured again
I’m worried about his make-up. He’d be a 27 year old Major League rookie who has been given two chances to be the starting 3B for a MLB club and in both prior off-seasons he’s done something to put that in jeopardy.
I just don’t have a lot of confidence in him, injury or no.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
i dunno
there have been lengthy debates about his drinking and the effect that will/should have on his playing time. as for last offseason….what? he shouldn’t drive his car? we have no reason to believe he was being negligent then, so i’m not going to assume so
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It was the not-informing-the-Cardinals part that was negligent.
He didn’t tell them he was injured. Seems rather immature. I guess we’ll see what happens.
Now with extra feisty!
i guess that was irresponsible
but i find it hard to blame the guy. he was 26-years-old and finally getting his chance when a stupid f’ing car accident was about to ruin it all
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It does seem immature...
In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and say that David Freese is immature. But David Freese has probably been treated differently (read: awesomely) his whole life because he’s really freaking good at baseball. That has to adversely affect your maturity level.
Also, let’s not look at these guys as regular people like you and me. They are grown men who light each others shoelaces on fire for fun. They spit wherever they want. They parade around naked in their workplace and spend over 100 nights on the road per year. I matured into a responsible adult very quickly when I started having to live and behave like one. If I never had to mature in this way (like baseball players), would I have matured?
by IA Card on Jan 5, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
this comment is even more awesome with your Motte avatar.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
with or without goggles?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I am still waiting for my body to mature
Some day…. Some day I will be able to grow a mustache
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
colby is that you
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
It'll happen!
At least that’s what I keep telling myself.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i get the feeling if i was mr freeze, i'd flame out quickly too
i’d just live it up way to hard & way to often
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Huh?
- It’s been proven a number of times that pitch quality isn’t much better with a good hitter hitting behind you.
- I would be MORE concerned about his not walking if he’s hitting in front of Albert, because he’s not going to hit .330 and I’d like to see two guys getting on base at a .345-.360 clip on base in front of our best hitter. Tejada would have to hit .330 or better with his shitty walk rate to approach that OBP.
- You’d rather have him for two years rather than just one? When he’s shown a pretty monstrous decline in skills over the previous two seasons? I hope it isn’t 1/$8, but I’m certainly more in favor of that than 2/$12.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I would rather have him for two years
at a cheaper annual rate than just one at a higher number.
I’m heading out the door so I can’t check this but what is Tejada’s contact rate. That may have something to do with his walkrate being so low. He struck out less than 50 times last year, so he may be one of those players that can make contact with a lot of pitches…good and bad…which supresses both his walk and strikeout rates.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Someone grab this data for me
while I’m out. What is Tejada’s ‘pitches per at-bat’ average and where does it rank MLB wise the past few seasons.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ok
O-Contact %:
2009 Tejada: 76.1%
2009 Lg Avg: 61.8%
Tejada Career: 64.9% — above league average.
Total Contact %:
2009 Tejada: 88.4%
2009 Lg Avg: 80.5%
Tejada Career: 85.5%
P/PA: 2008 = 3.73; 2009 = 3.42; Career = 2.46
He hit .313 last year with a BABIP of .323 and an O-Contact % that’s WAY above his career and league averages, so he’s due for some regression in all of those. He’s very, very good at making contact with pitches in the strike zone throughout his whole career, but his HR/FB rate is way down the past couple of years despite playing a park that gives up a shitload of homers to right handed pull hitters, and Tejada is one of those. He’s also seeing more pitches that his career average in both of the last two seasons, yet he’s taking fewer walks. Any drop off in his ability to hit line drives or an unlucky BABIP on ground balls and he’s a nearly worthless offensive player.
I stand by what I said earlier. I don’t like him if he’s hitting in the 2 spot because he’s not likely to hit .330 (he’s done it only once in his entire career), and that’s the only way he’s going to post an OBP in the .350 to .360 range.. I like him a whole lot more if he’s hitting down in the order at the 5 (preferably) or 6 spots because his lack of power will play better with LaRussa’s gameplans of putting runners in motion with his high contact rate.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I know it's been proven
about the pitch quality, and what not, but I still say Pujols is the exception to the rule, and that Tejada would see a lot of pitches in the strike zone batting in front of Pujols.
I’m not sure how I would feel about him being a Cardinal, except for the fact that it would mean they would never have to face him, since he always seems to come up with big hits against the Cardinals
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I actually agree. . .
that Pujols may be the exception to the rule.
But that still doesn’t mean that I want Tejada. He’s done.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 5, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Miguel Tejada - steroids + actual age = no thanks
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Maybe,
but over his entire career, hitters batting in front of Pujols haven’t hit noticeably better there than they have at other positions in the lineup.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
But have they seen more pitches in the strikezone
than they did in other spots in the order?
Just because they get more strikes doesn’t mean they will make contact.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
I believe
that Steve at PAH9 was going to look at this, but most other studies I’ve seen show that there isn’t much difference in the number of strikes thrown to hitters that are “protected”.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
It very well could be one of those 'beliefs'
that are simply not true. But logically, it makes sense you would pitch to the guy batting in front of the greatest hitter of a generation.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
But it also doesn't make sense
to pitch him differently than you would normally to get him out. Think about it.
Essentially what you’re saying is that instead of sticking to a gameplan that would be the ideal best way to pitch a hitter, you’re now going to change it and throw him MORE strikes than he would normally see, hoping that he’ll put the ball in play and get himself out or strikeout by swinging through strikes? That really doesn’t make a lot of sense.
You’re also making the assumption that pitchers have an overt control over who they give out bases on balls to, yet most of the pitchers who give up a lot of walks walk EVERYONE, not just the 6, 7, and 8 hitters who don’t have great hitters behind them usually. Essentially: I should throw this guy a BP fastball rather than walking him because Pujols is up next. I just don’t buy that theory.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
but you may not be tempted in a 2-2 count
and a 3-2 count to throw him a slider low and away with Pujols coming up behind. Even though the low and away slider tends to get the previous hitter out. The would you rather risk giving up a solo HR to Tejada or pitching to Pujols with a man on base?
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
What about Game Theory though?
I don’t know if I necessarily agree with fourstick, but if you’re a pitcher and afraid to throw a fastball to the guy in front of Pujols on a 3-2 count, won’t the batter be licking his chops for said fastball … making him easier to fool on a breaking ball?
I guess I could see game theory cancelling out, or at least minimizing, any advantage batting in front of #5 would bring.
I think if you see an effect it's gonna be in hitters' counts
At 3-0 or 3-1, particularly with two out, I can easily see a pitcher saying “alright, I’ll just put this guy on and get the next one.” If that next batter is ridiculous, a pitcher would never think like that.
I’ve never seen a definitive study on the subject (largely because I haven’t looked for it), but if I was doing one, I’d take a look at those types of scenarios.
by brackenthebox on Jan 5, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
we had a discussion in the hot stove thread on this
i think its in the hitters counts where you wil see a difference for the reason you describe above.
Just win
Now you're talking about measuring actual INTENT
and that’s going to be next to impossible to do. You’d have to interview the pitcher’s and hope they’re not blowing smoke up your ass.
I don’t think that any amount of statistical analysis is going to bear this out — there is simply too much noise and too many variables to make a determination of the intent of the pitcher or the subliminal changes in the pitcher due to a great hitter being on deck.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
fixed
there is simply too much noise and too many variables to make a determination of the intent of the pitcher or the subliminal changes in the pitcher due toa greatthe greatest hitter being on deck.
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Steve is
But I’m taking a global-ish view first and trying to hold various things constant, so it’s taking awhile. I’ve pulled most of the data, but now I have to do all the analyzing.
Early indications look like it’s more myth than reality, but there’s some specifics (Like the hitters count idea referenced that I haven’t looked at yet.)
by stevesommer05 on Jan 6, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
me too
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
i'd rather see neither one of them
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I voted for
Roberto Alomar, Bert Blyleven, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Mark McGwire, and Tim Raines
Really hard to leave out Raines, no?
during his peak (which was fairly lengthy for a OBP-and-speed guy) he was probably 2nd only to Henderson in terms of lead-off hitters in the last quarter-century or so. For me, that’s probably a fair resume for HOF candidature.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
...best SB% of anyone with 500+ steals
Probably makes him the best basestealer ever, no?
Ricky had more volume, but a higher CS% as well.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
his 1987 season was just downright awesome
He would be a shoo-in if he had played in NY or Boston. One of my fave non-Cards of all-time
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
And he did it all
while trying not to break the vials of crack in his pants… man had a lot of talent…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
win
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
You mean...
that piece of canvas failed to hold 400 pounds?? I never would’ve guessed either…
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
400?
Being a little generous there. I’d wager 475-500
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
I figured this was an HOF vote,
so I did what any baseball writer worth his salt would do, and randomly picked 10 names.
* is an Asshat
yeah
i don’t know enough about all these guys to pick. i’d probably put mcgwire on my ballot, though
so.
1. mcgwire
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
then it's not a surprise
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I went
Raines, McGwire, Martinez, Larkin, Blyleven, Alomar, and Lankford. If they let Jim Rice get it, damn it, I get to vote for Ray Lankford!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
ditto and i also voted for Lee, Lee belongs in there too damnit!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Hey DanUp
You can also change the “post-vote” text. I think it’s under the “more actions” tab or something. Just another place to put a snarky one-liner, heh.
Oh, and if you mothertruckers don’t elect Tim Raines, I’ll blow up this website. Seriously, I’ll do it.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
This is rather interesting
According to Frank Cusumano, Matt Holliday has put an offer in to buy a home in the St. Louis area.
oh snap
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Who is Frank Cusumano?
A St. Louis realtor?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He doesn't get much work anymore
So he has to make some money on the side
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I love Frank Cusomano.
I am sad he doesn’t get as much work as I think he should.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I don't have cable so the only games I ever got to watch were
The games on Channel 5 with Frank on Sundays
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
oh come on
throw down the cash for cable of mlb.tv
you call youself a baseball fan!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I don't watch TV so I can't justify it
And I kind of always preferred the radio. Plus, their is so many free video feeds if I really wanted to. I have contemplated mlb.tv though since I figured out how to get their blackout rules.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
And I kind of always preferred the radio
baffling
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Yep.
When it comes to baseball, most definitely.
by mynameistyler on Jan 5, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
i like to see it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I enjoy watching it...
but when there is a quality broadcaster, I will gladly take their call over a bogus-lame tv duo.
by mynameistyler on Jan 5, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Radio broadcasts of baseball are awesome.
Far superior to any other sport. The pacing of baseball is perfect for radio as are the sounds of the game. You can hear the crack of the bat and it is wonderful.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
you can hear the crack of the bat
on fsmw broadcasts
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
seeing what's happening outweighs that by a fair amount
probably blasphemy, but shannon doesn’t really blow me away. he’s of the same mindset of pretty much all the other old guys. difference being the dumb shit he says is funny instead of infuriating
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 5, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At least you could mute Al and put on iTunes
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
i tried that and didn't like it
if i could ever get it to sync up, i would mute fsn and listen to shannon while watching, but the radio broadcast is always behind
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it is not hard to do
you just have to find an internet feed of the radio
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying put on music
I think it’s pretty sweet to watch baseball with my music on
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
MOAR ZEPPELIN
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Jan 5, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
DVR the game?
and watch it with a couple second delay?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
you think i have
all that expensive stuff?
i don’t live in market anyway, so i have to get my mlb.tv on. though, i think if i get a roku player (mlb.tv support to your tv in hd along with netflix) you can use dvr there
i wish i could just get mlb.tv to my ps3. so stupid that i can’t
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
MLB.tv has a DVR function now, fwiw
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you can't set it to record while you're not watching it though
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
do you get to
meet lots of sweet ass ballplayers?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
oh not that Shannon
Just Shannons in general.
P.S
I did go fishing with John Mabry once
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
ha okay
i think i’m related to a shannon, also
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
did he use dynamite to try & scare you?
he’s been known to do that. IZZY too
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
There is a corollary between the invent of T.V.
and the falling off of baseball as the nation’s favorite sport. Listening to games on the radio is a lot of fun, especially visualizing the plays. Of course, I would also rather read a book than watch T.V., so I am probably very much in the minority with my love of baseball on the radio. Have you ever listened to the baseball history radio network (or, whatever it’s called) when they have old broadcasts on? It’s so cool. Those broadcasters back then were awesome.
I’m not saying that I would choose radio over T.V., which seems to be how prophetjohn is framing the issue. I am simply celebrating baseball on the radio because I love the medium.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Basketball and hockey are hard to listen to
Too fast-paced to get an accurate picture
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
I know the Bradley and Illinois b-ball announcers
well enough to follow along easily, but when I don’t know the announcers tendencies, I can’t keep up.
the argument should start and stop with AL
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
yes but even that assclown will never ruin watching the game for me
but i do love shannon & miss jack buck more & more as every day passes. it’s just a blessing to watch dodger games & enjoy Vin while he’s still here.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I listened to opening day last year
and let me tell you hearing the crack of the bat vs Motte was not fun, but definetely let me feel like I was at the game.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
reporter or something similar
he plays some role in the fsmw broadcasts
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Thank you.
Not living in St. Louis, I am not familiar with the folks who work for the local TV affiliates. I am, however, concerned that I don’t recognize the name from FSMW broadcasts.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i'm just tarded
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
He wasn't on any FSMW broadcasts
only the KSDK ones, he is their on field reporter. He also has or used to have a radio show
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
ah, ksdk
i was close
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Sweet
Maybe he’ll buy that piece of crap house they’re building next to my parents’ home in Edwardsville. My dad would just sit in his yard and stare at Holliday’s home waiting for him to leave.
but what high school will they go to?
what high school?!!!
/Louisan
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
You can just tell so much by the high school.
It’s true.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Well yeah.
But since that is who I usually associate with it works very well for me.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Yeah, as someone who went to high school elsewhere and then college in STL
I was amazed by the universally accepted stereotyping/prejudice behind the “WHICH HIGH SCHOOL?!” questioning.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
i've never lived in st louis
and even i’m familiar with this. kinda weird
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
The foundation of society...
in St. Louis is race and class, but you can’t actually admit that, so you have to get at it in roundabout ways.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
In my opinion,
the stl/high school thing is due to most people in St. Louis never getting the hell out of St. Louis. When everything’s static, knowledge of high school attendance can tell you more about a person than it should.
I hate it, but that’s what it is.
it's very very clicky too
one of the things i’m actually fear about moving there if i ever get the chance because it’s almost impossible for an outsider to make friends there. and yes i’m an outsider even though i’m from mizzou, if you never lived in the STL & went to high school there you’re an outsider
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I was in an interview once
and the guy I was interviewing with made the statement that STL can’t figure out if it’s the southern most northern city or the northern most southern city… I think that pretty well sums the place up…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
it's not a southern city at all from what i can tell
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i have
good point
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
against the cubs on july 4 no less
at least i got to see albert hit #300
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Try listening to 92.3
StL has one of the strongest Country Music markets and there are a ton of rednecks in the StL Metro area.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
yeah but come on
i live in the south. stl is not very distinctly southern
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
and austin isn't particularly redneck
but it feels way more southern than st louis
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
maybe because it's in the south?
and i hate that st. louis has one of the best country markets around.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
exactly...
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Yeah, I hate those redneck St. Louisans that classify people based on superficial stuff like high school and musical taste!
Wait, what?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
there are other bases upon which to classify people?
like what kind of beer they drink?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
or don't drink beer at all
rabble rabble rabble
by brackenthebox on Jan 5, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Heh
By the way, stlcardinalsfang, I was totally kidding. After reading my comment again I fear it being misinterpreted as some sort of slam or something, I only meant it as light-hearted jabbing.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i just don't like country music
but i won’t lie, i classify people based on where they went to high school.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
As do I
as a native St. Louisan who still lives here, I just really enjoy this kind of joking around.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
high school?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I smell a high-school username matching fanpost
if we offend everyone, it’s like we offended no one.
by brackenthebox on Jan 5, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
look up all the Cardinals' high schools too
everyone, not just the Saint Louisans.
then, maybe, it’s fanpost fodder.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I do like *real* country music
when they were singing about real problems and real life. if I wanted slow-tempo pop, I’d listen to pop.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
more songs about dead dogs!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
yes!
I had always meant to check out the Carter Family too, but never got around to it.
I also like the community sorts of tunes that are closer to Irish reels than ballads and such.
am remarkably lazy about music, though.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
who?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
more songs about broke down trucks!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
~a blew the tranny in mah ford today, bwow wow~
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
wait, that doesn't sound right
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I like songs about mama.
Or trains. Or trucks. Or prison. Or gettin’ drunk.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
YEAH
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it's not in the south, it's in Texas
and every one in Texas knows Austin isn’t really Texas. too many hippies
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
According to my Southern friends
Southerners make a big distinction between redneck, in the south, and southern. St. Louis in most southern people’s minds is in none of those categories. Southern Missouri like Jefferson County on down may fall into redneck. Arkansas=redneck. Kentucky=redneck. They haven’t figured out what to do with Tennessee, it’s definitely not southern though. Southern= North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Texas and Florida are in the south but not southern.
This is what my South Carolinian friends tell me.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I don't know enough about the rest of what you said.
But I agree with the part about Texas and Florida.
Now with extra feisty!
Erroneous
They all fall under some category of southern.
- Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, North Florida are the Deep South/Gulf Coast
- Arkansas, West Tennessee, Central Tennessee are the mid-South
- Eastern Tennessee, Western North Carolina, Western Virginia, West Virginia are Appalachian South
- Eastern North Carolina, South Carolina are coastal South
- Kentucky, Missouri, Northern Virginia are borderline
- Texas is its own place
- Florida south of Gainesville is Northern
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Nah
Appalachian. Just wanted to get a rise out of you ;)
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
I was gonna say.
I see mountains out of my window! My favorite thing in the world is mountains. Are mountains. Hmmmmm…
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Is
The noun in the sentence is “thing” which is singular.
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
That is what I thought.
It just sounds wrong but that is why I remembered it I think.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
the virgina's & n ky are not the south
they fall into the hillbilly appalachian definition. same goes for se mizzou, western ky. tennessee is all south, i don’t know what cgirly southern friends are thinking. the jacsonville part of florida is also northern, but you’re right about the rest of the state.
the definition of southern vs hillbilly appalachian is an entirely different subject. the easiest difference is manners. southern’s have them, hillbilly’s don’t. the hoosier’s of the STL/metro east also fall under the hillbilly definition. i’m not saying all hillbilly’s & hoosiers have no manners, but that’s the simplest way i know of to describe the difference. it is in no way a slight to anyone, i’m from se mizzou so it’s in my blood & i am very hillbilly/hoosierish in many ways.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
In the south.
Not southern, Tennessee. There’s a definite difference in attitude there. I can’t describe it but it’s there.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
yeah i don't get that
i’ve been all over tenn & the carolina’s & i don’t see a difference.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Yeah
They aren’t obsessed with themselves in Tennessee
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 6, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
and they also say
STL is the westernmost eastern city, and KC is the easternmost western city. So there.
Further proof that there is just nothing in the middle of Missouri
Well, there’s some sort of college or something…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
There are a few
but I went to Rolla (MSM/UMR/MST, wish it would just stick with a freakin name already!) and always used to joke that if the US was everywhere we were in the middle of everywhere and since MO is nowhere we were also in the middle of nowhere.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
no... there is this:
just east of Edgar Springs, Missouri is the mean center of U.S. population
it’ll probably stay in Missouri for the next couple of decades, unless the asteroid takes out the East coast.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
but, but
that’s…….math. what have you become?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
wiki
it’s not real math if wiki does it for you.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Yeah
That is where I got my “center of everywhere” comment above, rolla is just north of that point and when I first saw that we were that close to the statistical population center and also nearly the E/W center of MO, though Columbia is much closer to dead center.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
sadly the geographic center is in Kansas.
Lebanon, even.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Heh. I like the map that shows its movement westward
The mean population center took a step in Kentucky for a while, then decided to stay clear from then on.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I think it says a lot about STL
Namely that no one here gets out alive… Granted I am saying that from some place other than STL so take that as you will…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
no one here gets out alive
isn’t that everywhere
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Dude I'm immortal...
I don’t know what you have going down…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
rather
i think there’s just a window. if you don’t make that window, getting of wherever you grew up gets significantly harder every year
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It really helps
when you go to college a good car ride away from where you grew up…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i go to college
a 14 hour car ride from where i grew
i took a little hop at first, wited a few years and then ran really far away
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I'm hoping to follow a similar path
Everytime I go to my parents place to visit I think to myself I should have just killed myself back in the day… That place is a dump. The general area, not my parents house…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
is that why I keep hearing Queen ...
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't actually judge someone based on where they went to high school.
I just like to ask. It has a lot to do with sports for me. Like you went to Villa, you have a good Field Hockey team. I don’t say, “you went to Villa. You must be rich or something.”
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Implications
are in the mind of the beholder only. Nothing to do with naivety.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 5, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Oh please.
That’s ridiculous. I don’t give a sh*t where anyone went to high school.
Now with extra feisty!
I would
be very interested in having an in depth discussion on what living in St. Louis is like from all perspectives, but this is not the place for that. Maybe a VEB meeting this summer? Also, I was not making a personal comment, just responding to what you said.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 5, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly didn't create the implications,
and when you hear people say things explicitly, you learn that many others are believing the same things and just not saying them out loud.
Now with extra feisty!
It
is hard for me to understand the US. Not an indictment, but just that I have lived in Africa and Asia for 33 years, and never felt any social exclusion wherever I was. And I hope that it is the same in Canada, although in reality it is probably not. I guess it is a different crucible in the US. Sorry if I offend at all, and I guess that I am way off topic.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 5, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
You didn't offend. I just didn't think you understood what we were discussing.
The problem with St. Louis is that it’s the world’s largest small town. Everyone is up in everyone’s business.
Now with extra feisty!
You hear that Cathy is getting a divorce?
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
That is probably the best description of it
St Louis is not your typical “big city” and is much more like a small city, even the “news” is much more small city type. The fact that a local person dieing of H1N1 lead the 10pm, 5am, 530am and 6am news lastnight and this morning is very telling. In Chicago or NY I doubt it would have even been a footnote. We get very little national news on our local news but when I go visit my family in the DC area their “local” news is basically a rehash of the national and in NY when I was there earlier this year they covered a few local stories but mostly was limited to things affecting the entire city not just small hot spots.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
in chicago there was more murder news than weather.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I like STL better than Chicago
but isn’t St. Louis ranked as one of the most dangerous places to live every year. (along with Flint and Detroit, MI)?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
yes but
the last time I looked further into those rankings Detroit and Chicago and other “big cities” were ranked by City Limits alone while StL was ranked as a “metro area” and thus it’s rankings included rates for ESL and North County. I would love to see how ESL would rank alone, probably as the most dangerous.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
You've got it backwards
we’re so high in crime b/c it’s only city proper for those stats. I’d say 1/3 of the city is dangerous as all get outs.
This is correct.
STL is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to city-to-city comparisons since virtually all other American cities include the surrounding county in their demographic data.
The same reason STL has no tax revenue is the same reason STL is listed as a dangerous city.
I made the mistake
one night, of letting a couple guys know what my area code was. Someone shouted “618” and then someone shouted “314”, so I decided it would be a smart idea to yell “217”…luckily the police had already been called and the crowd was big enough that I could hide, so I lived to talk about it
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
drunk after all inclusive section in CF
somehow ended up at club Buca (sp?) and then stumbled out after last call to the scene which I described
(Astros rain delayed heart breaker of 2008)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
i remember one time
i took a wrong turn leaving the stadium and i had to drive all the way across town to get to I 70 via kings hwy. rough area. and i had to pee. very uncomfortable stop at the gas station
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
oh my god
that is THE ABSOLUTE WORST part of st. louis right there. i wasn’t even allowed to drive through it for work let alone stop at the gas station to pee. wow dude, wow.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
funnily enough
i was not sure if i was going the right way, so while stopped at a red light, some thug lookin dude pulled up next to me and i asked him if i was going the right way to get to 70 and he was very polite and helpful!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
WOW WOW WOW
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
ironically enough
i live on kings hwy now. just in a different town
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
same thing happened to my buddy and me
we ended up being surrounded by all these tricked out muscles cars being raced by gangsters of some stripe or another. they kept circling us, passing in various formations and driving very very fast. it was frightening. thank god it was after a day game
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
that was pretty much it
i like that story, though because i had no clue where i was or what i was getting myself into, but everyone i tell it to is like HFS you’re alive! after driving down kings hwy at midnight!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Oh. My. God.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
St. Louis is a very safe city
if you avoid certain areas:
you’re gonna have to drag that photo to see it, but the vast majority of murders take place in North City. I bet if you excluded North City St. Louis would be above average in safety. Just don’t go there (besides the occasional voyage to Crown Candy Kithcen)
+1
i make the joke that i like my wedge that’s south of 40 and north of 270 as my staying place. while true, if you take out basically anything north of 40 and east of 170 as well as east st. louis, you’ve got a damn safe town.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
nah, there are still nice areas there
north of delmar and east of, say, skinker is where you start to run into trouble
or the occasional scrounging for heroin
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
And even all those north city murders
are effecting a very specific demographic: namely young black males.
I’ve always thought the “oooo the city is dangerous” mentality was silly. The murders are mostly gang-related; why are they going to waste their time on a doughy suburbanite who stops for gas? Fear makes the wolf look bigger.
east saint louis is second in the US in crime rate
East Saint Louis and Opa Locka, Florida have the highest crime rates in the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_St.Louis,Illinois#Crime
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Whoa
SBN italicized the “Louis,” because it was between underscores, but the link still works
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
OMG did you know George Clooney shot a movie in OUR CITY???
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
To explain, the high school thing is more running gag than serious judgment
No one really cares where people went to high school, the concept has metastasized into so much of a joke that it has just become the standard “ice breaker” for the St. Louis area for no particular reason.
Very much so.
My original comment was very facetious. I do like kind of knowing what area people grew up in mainly because usually I can start a conversation based on somethings from that part of town with a new person fairly easily.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I went to a High School with a guy that threw a perfect game
What you got that is right
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
chaminade. heh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAlU7RbvHTs&feature=related
/webster groves alum
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Chaminade??? More like... Chami-NERD!!!
Desmet??? More like… Suck-smet!!!
Sucksmet was actually the ironically stupid nickname for Desmet at my highschool. We were meta like that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I laughed
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
BTW I went to St. Charles West in the late-80's
What does that mean about me?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
it means stop smoking meth!
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
my apologies.
get a brain, moran-self!
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
had to laugh at that
the guy I’m living with is a Blackhawks fan and they brought up what do they put in the water in STL… someone responded with meth. Another guy said that’s only standard in Jefferson County… it’s still optional in the city…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
heehee
My nephew goes to school at Truman State up in Adair Co., which claims to be the meth capital of Missouri. It’s odd that these methy counties actually take some perverse joy in their methy-ness. It’s odd.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
They're bringing a Moneyball POV to life
Can’t all be great places to live so let’s be great at meth until the market corrects itself…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Central Illinois Meth
winner winner, meth dinner
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Doubly funny since St. Louis has some of the best tap water in the country
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yeah, watchout with the meth!
We don’t have meth problems in God’s Country!!!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
You know what's funny is...
…St. Charles County is pretty far from the sticks. It’s population was booming for awhile and it feels like just another suburb…
…And yet demographically it’s very very weird. We have a generation of former city-labor children mixed with people from really rural areas who moved in from the real sticks. Throw ‘em all in a pot and you have St. Charles County… a bunch of middle class people who either think they’re cowboys or that they’re rich and all of them listen to country and crappy hip-hop (I mean I had MJ and Run-DMC! Now they have Lil Lil and Lil Boof and whoever the hell else). Now St. Charles city (the 63301 and 63303 area codes) is seeing a lot of people move out to Wentzville and stuff b/c I guess St. Charles is too ethnic or something stupid. Weird place. Also, the city council has apparently been thinking about banning cursing in bars. No, seriously!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Saint Charles county though
Is rated one of the best places to live in the country on a regular basis.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I really like it out here
It’s inexpensive and with the Page Ave. extension and I-70 the city is easy to reach. There’s a diverse range of food choices and several really nice golf courses. The schools aren’t too bad and the people are nice for the most part. My comment may have come across as negative, and while I find the people of STCC odd this is still a pretty decent place to live. I’ve been here much of my life since the age of 11 so obviously I don’t hate it!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
the best thing I can say about St. Chas
at least there aren’t any stoplights on 40 any more. I can shave 15-20 min+ off the trip to KC by getting on 70 in Wentzville.
Craig C has different data
http://twitter.com/craigcalcaterra/status/7409041674
I hear that Holliday has also put offers on houses in NY, SF and Balt, as well as a “mystery condo” somwhere.
i’m not repeating that hashtag, even in jest
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 5, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
p sure he's joking
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
aye
the hashtag tipped me off, and yet it still pissed me off. BEES.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
This is one of the better jokes I've heard this week.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
The glorious ballot of redbirdnation8206 is...
Alomar, Blyleven, Lankford*, Larkin, Edgar, Big Mac, Raines, and Trammell.
I figure Blyleven was close to the best of the group and has been hosed royally. Mac has also been hosed by complete and utter hypocrisy and self-righteousness by the BBRAA (to borrow Mr. Law’s term), and hell they even have the gall to say they wouldn’t vote for him b/c he wasn’t a very good playerEdgar Martinez will probably be overlooked b/c he was a DH. Martinez’s non-inclusion would be a shame, because if he had the career he did in New York, LA, or Boston and faked first base he’d probably be a lock.
I think Raines, as the 2nd best leadoff man of the past 50 years or so has a strong case (high OBP coupled with a lot of steals at a really high rate). Larkin and Alomar both had good bats for their positions and were considered slick fielders, though we don’t really have a particularly good way of measuring that. So anyway, that’s my ballot. I have a nasty case of the flu (not H1N1 though) and will now be returning to the couch.
*Just for the sake of as many BoB-wearers as possible!!!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions
I remember Trammell being good
Than I looked at his BR page and was rather under whelmed
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
What you have to keep in mind is that he was a SS
He had some injury issues that I think hamper his case too, but take a look at this: Ripken v. Trammell wOBAs
They were fairly similar hitters and the best season was had by Trammell, not Cal. I’ll concede of course that Cal is in the HoF largely b/c he was a very good player and The Streak® and I have no problem with that… but their performance was fairly similar and Trammell was considered the better fielder. I think that he gets overlooked considering the offensive boom at the SS position in the mid-late 90’s with guys like Jeter, young Nomar, and A-Rod.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
heh, I think I posted the exact same vote that you did!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
If Blyleven doesn't get in this year
He’s never getting in. This is a pretty weak class, especially for pitchers, and Mac is still getting blackballed, so I’m thinking there might be 3 guys getting in, and those three guys being Larkin, Trammell, and Blyleven. I think Robbie Alomar’s huge dropoff is going to hurt him more than a lot of people think, and the spitting incident isn’t going to help him either — I can’t see him getting in on the first ballot with those issues.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Bert...
…is never getting in.
He was the Javier Vasquez of his time. Would you let Javier Vasquez in?
He was WAY better than Javy Vasquez
They aren’t even comparable pitchers except for strikeouts.
Evidence? Here, and here , and, ultimately, here.
He’s the best pitcher not in the HOF and had he played on more winning teams, would probably have around 320 wins.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
You are right...
…of course. But think about it, if people are looking at statistics they would just vote him in—really it would be in the realm of no-brainer land. But no one is looking at Blyleven’s statistics.
It isn’t really meant to be a serios statement, because I think if Vasquez could continue to play at a similar level to how he has played to this point in his career for 20 years, you could make a pretty solid arguement that he should be in.
The point of the statement is that their is something that feels similar to them and feeling is how these people are voting. This is purely an attempt to give a modern day example of a pitcher that stats say is very good, but it doesn’t neccesarily feel like he is that good.
javy vazquez feels good man
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Yeah
But the gist I was getting at:
1. Lots of strike outs.
2. W-L that doesn’t match his statistics
3. Moved around a lot. Like Blyleven he has played for a lot of team in his 10 years.
i dunno
i think you just have a unique way of evaluating pitchers
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I am not being very articulate...
…because somehow it sounds like I don’t like either of these guys—when actually Vasquez is on of my favorite pitchers in the game.
i just wanted to use a "feels good man" reference
http://noisnois.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/1pantsdownpee.jpg
warning. this picture depicts a cartoon frog’s butt. and the pic is big
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
The whole
“I wouldn’t go to the ballpark to watch Bert Blyleven pitch” Corollary? I really despise this line of thinking.
I would never go the ballpark to just watch Tom Glavine pitch, he’s the most boring pitcher to watch in the last 20 years. Yet he’ll be a first ballot HOF player.
Just because he wasn’t exciting, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a HOF talent. Blyleven has been credited by many fans, players, and scouts that he had the best curveball they’ve ever seen, and some even said it was the best PITCH they’d ever seen.
3. Moved around a lot. Like Blyleven he has played for a lot of team in his 10 years.
Nolan Ryan moved around a lot and he’s in the HOF. What? Seven no-hitters you say? How about all of Blyleven’s shutouts and complete games? I think those are far more valuable to your team than 7 no-hitters. He was one of the top 5 pitchers in the entire league for his prime, which was around 10 seasons long — that’s a LONG prime of a career.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I would love to see run support for HOF pitchers statistics,
just to further the revelation that “wins” and “losses” are pretty worthless as “statistics.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well..
…if Vazquez had started in MLB when he was 19 and kept throwing until he was 39, had made over 30 starts most of those seasons, and racked up as many K’s and shutouts as Blyleven, I would think about it.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Indians sign Kearns to a minor-league deal
His defense is stellar in RF, and if he can bounce back with the bat, he’d be a terrific pickup. Nice no-risk signing for them. I would’ve liked to see this signing for the Cards if the Holliday thing fell through.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
with kearns and duncan
they could’ve suddenly got pretty good at hitting LHP without spending more than the MLB equivalent of a couple of dimes.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 5, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
God Larry Bigbie was such a bum
Dude took Steroids and still didn’t help at all.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
The only thing Larry Bigbie was good at was
making Aaron Miles look good
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Hey he looked okay running down the line
That dude was a waste of space though. Big guy, decent swing, good speed… and he was just awful.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
My vote
Roberto Alomar - Simply a no brainer for me. The best all-around 2B I’ve ever seen. The spitting thing matters very little to me. If Ty Cobb is in, if Juan Marachial is in after braining a guy with a baseball bat, Alomar can get in for spitting on a guy who called him a racist name.
Barry Larkin – If not for Ozzie, Larkin would have a resume that would probably be the gold standard for SS in baseball history.
Edgar Martinez – One of the first ‘DH exclusive’ players. He is 43rd all time in OPS+. 38th in Adjusted Batting Wins. In my book, he’s in.
Harold Baines – I’m going to be honest, I had no idea until last year that Harold Baines WASN’T actually in the HOF. Stuck around way too long and still couldn’t get to the magical 500 HR plateau. Baines is a weak case. I don’t have any empirical reason for voting him in but I figure I’m afforded atleast 1 soft spot vote for the dreaded ‘he looked like a HOF’er’ vote.
Mark McGwire – Steroids or no Steroids, you hit almost 600 HRs…you are a HOF’er.
Fred McGriff – McGriff is a guy who tried to hang around just to reach some magical numbers to ensure his Cooperstown plaque. From his rookie season until his final full season, the guy had a 100+ OPS+ . His career OPS+ of 134 puts him just outside the Top 100, more in the Boog Powell range. Even still, The Crime Dog gets my vote.
Tim Raines – If the best of his career had been played in America, he’d already be in. 5th All-Time in Stolen Bases, everyone ahead of him is in the HOF. Not one dimensional like the next in line Vince Coleman.
Bert Blyleven – This is my Mike Mussina vote. Never won a Cy Young, never got to 300 wins. Bert does have on thing over Moose in that he reached 3,000 strikeouts. Yes, he stuck around FOREVER but we shouldn’t necessarily punish guys for having long careers.
Lee Smith - Before Hoffman and Rivera, he was #1. With the love for closers in the HOF growing, Lee deserves his day. He should have had it 2 years ago.
Don Mattingly – The Keith Hernandez vote. One of the greatest 1B offensively and defensively, for a short period of time. His career was plagued with back injures…much like Mex. Nine Gold Gloves at 1B, only trails Mex. He was an offensive force before the injuries and maintained his defensive dominance after.
Who didn’t get my vote?
Andre Dawson – You steal Ozzie Smith’s MVP, you burn in hell forever.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 12:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
LOL!!!
+1,000 for the Dawson non-vote!
:=8)
Nut’n like nursing and polishing a grudge until its hard and shiny, like a pearl, a pearl of discowtent and cowtempt!
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
if don mattingly
why not Ray Lankford, at that point? Four years as a great hitter who plays good defense at a bad-defense position, two years as a really good hitter who does same, and six years as Doug Mientkiewicz just doesn’t do it for me; he’s like a low-rent version of George Sisler, right down to the several years post-injury as an intermittently useful hanger-on.
Birdland Post
In baseball history, according to the indispensable Cot’s Baseball Contracts (soon to be part of the Baseball Prospectus Empire), six outfielders have signed deals worth a total of $100 million or more. The range goes from Manny Ramirez’s eight-year, $160-million deal with Boston signed back before 2001 to Carlos Lee’s six-year, $100-million deal done with Houston before 2007. Holliday is likely to be the seventh, and he’ll be the third of the group represented by Boras. All of the previous six contracts share some of the same underpinnings.
First: Cot’s has been bought out by BP? It’s now going to be a pay-for-access site, I assume?
Second: Goold totally stole my thunder with this post. I even have the data (salary and OPS+ by seasonal age) on comparative production in a spreadsheet and the Fanpost half-written. Should I complete the Fanpost?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Cot's will still be free on BP
They’re going to do some visual enhancements and whatnot, but it’ll still be gratis.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
That is good to hear.
I was worried for a moment.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This
Going to do some visual enhancements
BP couldn’t visually enhance its way out of a paper sack. Their site is practically unreadable.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
Baseball Reference has the worst page ever
The individual player pages are fine but it is nearly impossible to navigate their site.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
i hate b-r.com
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
You and Adam Dunn.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
They need to hire someone to fix their web page
Fangraphs still doesn’t have right vs left splits. It drives me crazy
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
this and era+
are the only reasons to go to b-r
unless you have a subscription
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
What's horribly irritating...
…is that between B-ref and Fangraphs you have a lot of good stuff, just about all you’d ever need… it’s just that you can’t get everything you want from one of them. Fangraphs has a better collection of stats, but no splits and I don’t like their game logs. B-ref’s player pages are good, but they don’t keep FIP and don’t have good defensive data. B-P is hopeless. Their website looks like a basic word document. So yeah…
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
adding
I hope these guys don’t read criticism of the appearance of their web sites and go totally overboard with Flash bullshit and turn into ESPN. I kind of like the old school, visually plain type pages, it’s really more about functionality and ease of use for me, rather than animated robots and neon borders….
actually this would be my guess why BP's
metrics are usually obscure even though they are very similar under the hood and based on a lot of Bill James stuff.
Personally my intro to SABR was their book.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Apparently they're doing a lot of enhancements to their own page too.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by all means, complete the Fanpost
be sure to take a dig at TheGoodReporter (did I do that right ?) for stealing said thunder. He thinks he is awesome and all that, someone really needs to knock him down a notch or two( I know I got that idiom wrong, but whatever!)
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Goold's blog
the more interesting part of his blog is that PECOTA shows a fairly large dropoff for Holliday over the length of a seven-year contract – Goold asks for suggestions why PECOTA would show this – any ideas?
It depends on what he is using from Holliday's BP page.
I no longer have a subscription, but they do probability projections. I am not for sure what he is using exactly.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like Goold is using the projections
by you need a subscription to get them, which I don’t have.
FWIW, those six $100M outfielders
Manny Ramirez
Alfonso Soriano
Vernon Wells
Carlos Beltran
Ken Griffey Jr
Carlos Lee
one of these things is not like the others….
and i would have exactly 0 of them for 100 million now.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
If we didn't have Colby
I would still take Beltran for 6y/$100 M(16.6). According to Fangraphs, his value has been:
6.3
25.8
20.1
30.1
13.2 (injured)
-———
95.5 M
Not sure what the hell happened that first season. He just plum sucked.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
you would take beltran right now straight up for 6/100?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
I would take 2000 Manny Ramirez
for $100M, and I’d take 2005 Carlos Beltran for $100M easily.
Everyone else is kinda up in the air, except for Wells, who just plain sucks and has sucked since his one great season.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
yeah
but would you sign the 2009 versions to a 17 million dollar contract?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
like I said, all he does is snap on new hair.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
yes
but the question is this:
is 2016/2017 matt holliday going to be better than 2009 manny?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Depends...
does he take estrogen, get caught, and sit out 50 games? If not, I say his production will be better, lol.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
No idea.
But I don’t think it’s that easy to compare. You’ve got markedly different players and, more importantly, a completely different market.
So, instead of asking whether 2016 Holliday will be better than 2008 Manny, I think we should ask will 2016 Holliday be worth his 2016 salary. Just like the question for the BoSox was will 2008 Manny be worth his 2008 salary.
I don’t know the answer to this question, but it’s a better one to ask than Is Holliday going to be as awesome as Beltran and Manny. Because ~$17M in 2016 will probably not be anything like $22M (or whatever it was) in 2008.
Obviously not
But Holliday is about the same age as those guys were when they signed those big deals.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I would sign 2009 version of Beltran
to $17 M a year if we are going to give that same money to Holliday. I’d take Beltran over Holliday….well, maybe not when age is factored in.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Re: age
They’re only 2.5 years apart, and (IMO) Beltran will age better than Holliday, recent injuries aside
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
so you'd rather give 16-18 mil to a 39 year old beltran
over a 36 year old holliday?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
When did Griffey sign his?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Exactly.
Beltran and Manny earned their money.
A case could be made for Lee too.
2007 11.5M salary 13.7M value
2008 12.5M salary 15.2M value
2009 19.0M salary 11.1M value
Of course, the contract isn’t over yet; he’s still got plenty of time to tank. But to this point it hasn’t been a disaster.
I'm guessing he's going to be right at market value
especially since market value in 2009 and 2010 isn’t going to be as high as it was in 2006 and 2007.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Keep doing it
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Bernie keeps mentioning TLR liking Tejada
gah.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
"you would have three guys in your lineup that would be in the top-five in grounding into double plays"
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
"away from Minute Maid Park, he has about as much power as Brendan Ryan or Skip Schumaker"
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Per HR tracker
that is an incorrect statement.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
he was going by slugging percentage
I assume that’s some new-fangled stat….
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I see.
So by “power,” Bernie means SLG %, not HR and double totals?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
he was talking pretty fast, so I assume so.
then he started talking about meatloaf and I was distracted. so I’m not the best source.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
My hope is that he was talking about meatloaf the food,
because, for some reason, that would be pretty humorous to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'd pay some to charity if Bernie analyzed Meatloaf, at length
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
gleanings from BLS
Do we want Matthew Broderick? Do we?
Italian-American Baseball Heroes cards. Nice pencils… except for most of the St. Louis personalities. wtf.
Why do the Southsiders want an expansion that includes Memphis? They can barely draw enough for the Redbirds. Las Vegas is dyin’ for a real team.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
When I look at those Italian American Baseball Cards
All I keep thinking to my self is
Ehhh
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
hfs there's something wrong with mike piazza
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
wasn't he in the MST3K movie?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
So there you have it
A letter opener.
That’s when I shove my ovipositor down your throat and lay my eggs in your chest—I’m not an alien!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
No Bandwagon jumpers Broderick!
Jon Stewart is hanging his head in shame at your sports bigamy.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
hell yeah! We'll take Broderick
if he can replace AL in the booth and tell more stories about Brando.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
even if he breaks into song?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
especially if he breaks into song.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Jan 5, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
well. maybe if he re-filmed Bueller in Busch Stadium
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
what if he just released outtakes of ferris pissing in the troughs at wrigley?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
that would just make him even more popular among cubdom?
just a guess.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it's probably a Wrigley tradition?
I have no idea.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Autozone = Great AAA park
Key word = AAA
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Davidson is talking about what they're actively doing about talking to their young players
about alcohol and partying. Blues don’t seem to have a problem with being a little proactive.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
wow, he's putting his job on the line
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
they apparently hire off-duty police officers to come with them when they go out
plus designated drivers. (this is what they do voluntarily.)
Davidson is all for livin’ it up! responsibly.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
whoa!
I will be appearing on 590 The Fan St. Louis today at 1:30pm CST. I’ll also being doing a chat here at the site at 3pm CST.
- Tim Dierkes
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the mlbtr dude
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He's kind of...
a faux expert. He grabbed a corner of the on-line baseball world and eliminated all competitors through a lot of hard work and just by being an early entrant… that doesn’t mean he actually knows more than you or I do about this stuff.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
yeah, but he compiles stuff. about baseball.
let’s just say I wanna hear if he sounds as geeky as he makes himself out to be.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I definitely admire...
what he’s done… He definitely works hard. I just don’t know if he has any actual baseball expertise beyond what the average poster on this site has, for example.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
hence... my interest.
[coughs]
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
hm, I could use... some curly fries
arby filing period starts today
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
My guesses for Arb: Ludwick $5.5M, Schumaker $2.5M, and Kinney $750K
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
we should put up some curly fries for good guesses.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
well i did successful guess that Thompson would be released
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
you can get a selection from the sauce station.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
HFS ®
after a whole morning of not hearing one, they ran an Arby’s ad. scary.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
After all this Arby's and curly fry talk
I think I may have to go there for lunch ok let’s be honest breakfast… Thanks for making me fat people…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I checked to see where the nearest one was
Luckily it’s a long way away. I’ll eat my healthy packed lunch after all.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
What makes a HoFer?
I’m interested to find out what people look for when considering a HoF candidate? Being a Brit who didn’t move to the US and St Louis until 2001, and had only been following baseball since Channel 5 started showing live games at 2am(!) in the late 90’s, I haven’t had much chance to see many of these players play. Therefore I find myself limited to looking at some of their stats, especially in this case the “stat de jour” WAR.
I calculated two values, an average WAR for the player’s entire career and an average WAR for their best 10 consecutive years. My thinking being that a HoF player ought to have a career where they perform on average significantly better than an average MLB player (so WAR > 2.0) and a solid portion of their career where they produce at superstar levels on average. Problem is, what values would you look for? Career average greater than 3.0 WAR/yr and peak average greater than 4.5 WAR/yr? Lower? Higher?
For example, are people aware that Robin Ventura has a 10yr career peak average WAR of over 4.5? And averaged 3.67 WAR over his 15 year career? That’s better than Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson in both categories yet no-one seems to be considering Robin Ventura a HoF candidate. Similarly Kevin Appier.
Then there’s Tim Raines who had 10 superstar years at 4.93 WAR average and 12 years where he totaled 15 WAR over the 12 years.
Maybe it’s a combination of things, for example Mark McGwire was amazingly consistent throughout his career at 4.2 WAR/yr compared to a best 10yr peak average of only 4.4 WAR/yr. So his consistency is probably worthy of consideration if it weren’t for the question marks on whether he would have been that consistent without the juice.
Anyway I’m interested to hear people’s views on this subject and whether a player’s achievements can be fairly judged using limited stats only.
Obviously...
This doesn’t include evaluation of relievers. That at least I understand.
I should have voted for Ventura
simply for having the marbles to Rush Mr. Nolan Ryan, as a rookie.
* is an Asshat
TLC cage match.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Don't go chasing waterfalls...
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
i thought the same thing
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I should point out...
…that the only other time Ryan had been rushed he curled up in a ball and protected his arm. Ryan became a True Badass© largely by pummeling Ventura’s dome.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
nice post
let me be the first to say: for a foreigner, your english is impeccable.
by _pistol_ on Jan 5, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this really makes me laugh more than it should
thanks pistol!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
that's how you know he's foreign.
“i totaly hate when cardnals loose theyre games”
that’s real american speaking.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Did anyone else read this with a British accent?
I don’t think a player’s contribution can be described exclusively with stats no, but they can give you the raw totals of what a guy did on the field without (as much) bias. Obviously that is very useful, but there are cases like Ozzie where yeah, he may not have in terms of raw production been a slam dunk 1st ballot HOFer, but the fact that he was considered the best defensive player in history goes above and beyond being a good enough player to be a HOFer.
But for the most part, if we’re evaluating if someone is in fact good enough to be in the HOF, then I think stats can paint most of the picture. Bert Blyleven vs. Jack Morris is so insanely one-sided statistically there just should be no question who is more deserving.
Not afraid to nitpick
i tried
but it came out as some tortuous amalgam of mexican/australian
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Monk might.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He probably reads everything with a British accent
Just a guess
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
I can understand most Brits
But I don’t have a damn clue what the Irish are saying
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 5, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
You understand Cockney?
I spent some time around a couple from Liverpool one time and had to ask them to repeat everything at least three times to understand them
The only problem I had with the Irish were that they spoke too softly
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Give them a couple of drinks....
that will usually take care of the soft talker part.
* is an Asshat
This (the Irish part)
although they certainly have a different vernacular, its incredible that they’re still speaking English and I have no freaking clue what they’re saying. The accent is not as pronounced in the East, especially around Dublin, but I have relatives in Cork. I stayed with them for three days and hardly understood a single word. Now, I share a duplex with a recent Irish immigrant. It’s so bad that if I see him outside or in the laundry room or something, I’ll run away to avoid talking him. It’s just too awkward standing there, and going, “riiiiiggggghht” after he’s just spent three minutes talking to me.
IMHO
the hardest Brit accent to understand is that of the Geordies, otherwise known as people from Newcastle, yes, of the brown ale. Geordie accents are unintelligible to the uninitiated. Met a lot of them off the oil rigs in Africa and Indonesia.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 5, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
i did, but then when i'm wearing this bowler hat, everything comes out british.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
i thought that said bovine halter
and i was like wut
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I think it's the whole picture, honestly.
Of the guys that you mention, I don’t think any are HOFers, except Raines. And I don’t think that WAR/yr is a great measure at all. Speaking in very general terms, I think that there are three routes to being a HOFer:
1) Being very good for a long time (most HOFers fit in this category).
2) Being otherworldly good for a shorter period of “peak” time (Sandy Koufax and IMHO Bruce Sutter fit into this category).
3) Being close to criteria 1 or 2, but having some other criteria that puts you over the top.
Obviously, this ignores any number arguments like 500 HRs or 300 wins or 3000 hits.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 5, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I also have to use OPS+ and ERA+
along with the WAR statistics because it allows you to compare players from different eras with each other since the + statistics are adjusted for the peer players of that era.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
what are
the * statistics?
like tRA*
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
tRA* regresses to league average
StatCorner has a tRA+ and wOBA+ that do similar things to what OPS+ and ERA+, i.e. give a relation to league average.
I just find OPS+ and ERA+ easier to deal with, tbh.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i know what the + stats are
so basically, the * stats are projections?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Definition at StatCorner
The regressed version of tRA. tRA* takes each of the pitcher’s major component stats and regresses them back to league average, the magnitude of regression being based on the amount of batters the pitcher faces. tRA* is not a measurement of a pitcher’s results per se, but should be seen as the system’s best estimate of a pitcher’s true talent level based on his stats in any given year at any given level. tRA* does not consider a pitcher’s statistics from other years and leagues.
That says it about as well as I can. They regress to league average to measure talent level based on batter’s faced.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
they're talking about OPS+ and WAR
Bernie and… I think that’s Stark.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
oh, and B-R. haha.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
You talk about getting bad baseball advice
How come I have never heard of Matt Harrington before? A #1 pick talent, yet poor decisions allowed him never to play even minor league ball.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
interesting story
saw the “outside the lines” story a few months ago. Didn’t know whether to feel sorry for the guy or call a him a greedy basterd. He was young and received terrible advice. regardless if it was his fault or his dad’s, or his agent’s, it’s sad to see wasted talent.
I assume that Scott Boras is involved in this somehow?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
yes, not the first agent
The Rockies’ final offer was $4 million and a guaranteed major league callup by the end of 2002. Harrington turned down the deal, sat out the season and re-entered the draft in 2001. While Harrington and his parents publicly supported their agent at the time, they ultimately fired Tanzer and filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against him for giving bad advice. Tanzer was replaced with super-agent Scott Boras, who also proved unsuccessful getting Harrington signed.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Agent
So, Tanzer advises the kid to not sign, sit out a year, and re-enter the draft, and the family hires Scott Boras, he who is well-known for utilizing the same strategy, while suing Tanzer? This seems like a very odd bit of logic.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I've read about this kid before
They sound like a family that simply got caught up in their situation. They started drowning but couldn’t find their life vest. Sad too, b/c it was the kid who got screwed in the end.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Insurance Money
Luckily the kid took insurance out on his shoulder and was paid out a sum of money. It cannot be disclosed because it is court sealed. Also, he did get a payment from Tanzer. Obviously these two payments are much lower than he would have received if he signed at the outset but he was not left empty handed.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
My ballot
I’m feeling generous today:
Bert Blyleven – No explanation necessary; he’s not an Inner Circle HOFer or anything, but he’s an easy call.
Tim Raines – On a different day, I might not vote for him, and I wouldn’t blame anyone who didn’t, but the guy is 5th all time in SB. His career OPS of 810 goes up to 884 if you add SB minus CS to SLG, which, as a fan of the early to mid-80s Redbirds, I think is fair. Close call, but his longevity is the X-factor that gets him on my ballot. Plus, it would be kind of cool to see Whitey and the Rock go in on the same day.
Mark McGwire – Another easy call unless you are a sanctimonious sportswriter.
Edgar Martinez – Went back and forth on this one, but at the end of the day, I think it’s an easy call. He was just an amazing hitter, and the prototypical DH. I will be honest, the AL’s apparent inability to find good DHs influenced my decision some. Career 933 OPS and 147 OPS+ though is pretty much good enough under any circumstances.
Lee Arthur Smith – Weakest selection on my ballot, as I think he’s not as good as Hoffman and Rivera who should and will get in. Still, his longevity and general effectiveness or better make him better than John Franco, Troy Percival, or Billy Wagner, who weren’t as good for as long and shouldn’t go in (barring a late finishing kick from Percival or Wagner, of course).
Roberto Alomar – Another close call, but he gets credit for being a 2B, and a truly excellent one at that. I don’t think it’s a stretch to call him the Brooks Robinson of 2B, and if I’m not going to hold Big Mac’s chemical enhancement issues against him, I’m not going to hold the spitting incident against Robby.
Notable omissions:
Andre Dawson
Harold Baines
Ray Lankford (for purely sentimental reasons)
Alan Trammel
Dave Parker (for mostly sentimental reasons)
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 5, 2010 2:46 PM EST reply actions
Did someone already link to the mlb.com article?
Here:“http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100104&content_id=7872354&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb”
Seems like 7/98.5 might be the deal.
Sorry if I’m severly nextdef’d.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
The story ties two independent reports together.
ESPN.com reported Monday evening that the club and Scott Boras, Holliday’s agent, are “close to a deal” and that the team has “centered on” a seven-year framework.
And then the infamous Bowden tweet:
Earlier in the day, former Reds and Nationals general manager and current Sirius/XM radio personality Jim Bowden wrote on his Twitter account that team and player were “closing in on” a $98.5 million contract. However, by early evening, that tweet had been taken down.
If it were 7 years at $98.5MM, I would be astounded.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
wear a guard. they're steel.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Dude, if Mo got Holliday for 7/$98.5M I would literally run about naked
Mozeliak would have my undying loyalty. I think he’s done a pretty good job for the most part, but damn that would be beast.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 5, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
boras previously
always pointed to contracts like soriano and lee
maybe mo was like, look at pujols’ contract. you think you’re better? didn’t think so. now you get the same years, less money. otherwise, get out
bam!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
there'd be a line
I don’t see it, there’s just no way he’s talked Boras down that far.
If that turns out to be true Mo would be known as The Guy Who Pwned Boras.
that would be amazing
but it’s really hard to believe
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I will personally go to mo's house and give him a high five if this is accurate
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7/$98.5M
Would not totally surprise me. Look at what Holliday has said all along:
- He wants a long term contract.
- He wants a full no-trade clause.
- He’d like to play in the same place for a long time after signing this contract, presumably because his family wants to put down roots.
- He’s never really said anything about being the top paid player at his position, or one of the top paid players in baseball, and this would still be a good raise for him over what he made last year.
It all leads me to believe that he’s willing to give up some AAV dollars for stable longevity. If you’re Mo and DeWitt than you offer him a long term contract with a smaller AAV than what Jason Bay got, give him a year more than he would get elsewhere, and give him his no-trade clause. “Matt, we’re willing to commit to you long term and make the BoB the jersey you retire in, but we’d ask that you agree to concessions on the money side in exchange for the NTC and the extended contract.”
I think that’s fair, and if that’s what he’s looking for then it doesn’t totally surprise me.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
And don't forget about his expressed desire to play for a winner. . .
That’s a safer bet in the Loo than in the Kingdom of Minaya or Baltimore.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 5, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
let this be so.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jan 5, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
so
is this amount right: Glaus to the Braves for two million.
Hell, I would’ve taken that for a little more depth at third so we can focus what money we have left on pitching, and maybe a back-up/platoon OF.
he's not going to atlanta to play at third.
he’s going to play at first. there’s a reason for that. it’s not clear that glaus CAN play at third. $2m would be a lot for a PH/Albert backup.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Who probably should head over to 1st in the next few years if he's still around
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
I love mine so much I take bathroom mirror iphone myspace pics in it.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Who do you think is responsible for that wailing saxophone solo in "Careless Whisper"?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i need to call my old apartment complex!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
!Sodrib Le Aviv
Never heard of that place…
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
I love mine so much I want to take it behind the middle school and get it pregnant
by brackenthebox on Jan 5, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
before or after Adam Wainwright's curveball...?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
now i think i may have to get one.....
if only the baby blue wasnt so much more…hint hint
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
DAMNIT!
was just getting ready to post that…you stole my thunder
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Gotta be faster than that
That’s NOT what she said
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
If Rick Ankiel ends up being that lefthanded first baseman, I think my head will explode.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Would that be the ultimate "Hi guys in the truck"?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Chris Duncan is free now
And they probably still won’t take him. Sigh.
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chris duncan won't play another inning of major league baseball.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
if his problems were really more health related than performance related
I can see him catching on somewhere for power off the bench
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Sigh???
Why the sigh? It’s better that he’s gone. He was terrible. Wouldn’t even be in the Majors if it wasn’t for being on his daddy’s ballclub for 4 years.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
that and dropping bombs and taking walks
(along with chewing a mean tobacco)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Please, not this argument again
While he might be done now, almost every team in baseball would have found a place for him after that 2006 season.
.952 OPS followed by an .834 is not a terrible ballplayer.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
+1
the duncan-was-only-on-the-team-because-of-the-pitching-coach argument is pretty dead to me. the dude effing performed in 2006 before having neck issues.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
my ballot:
Blyleven, Dawson, Larkin, Mattingly, McGwire, Morris, Raines, Smith, Trammell, Ventura
probably should have Alomar in there, but at least he should get enough votes to stay on the ballot.
I guess this means I’d have to vote for Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, et al….
This is fun
Adrian Beltre’s defensive highlight reel from his time with the Mariners
If you wanted to be sad, watch this. Or entertained. Either one.
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Man, I've never seen a 3B with an underhanded whip like that.
He throws harder like that and more accurately than I’ve seen.
Yeah
His arm is just stupid strong. I watch him throw out guys submarine style from foul territory and I have to chuckle.
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HoF Ballot
I submitted these guys.
1. Roberto Alomar
- Pretty well covered by everyone here already. He should be a shoo in.
2. Bert Blyleven
- Pretty well covered as well. I’m not sure how he isn’t already enshrined.
3. Barry Larkin
- Underrated his whole career because of injury (deserved) and because of the other shortstops who were playing at the time (undeserved) like Ozzie Smith and Cal Ripken.
4. Edgar Martinez
- He’s easily the best hitter in this list of possible candidates. I don’t think he was as bad in the field as advertised either but the fact that he was a DH shouldn’t be held against him at all.
5. Mark McGwire
- McGwire should be in the Hall of Fame. He was much more than just a home run hitter. Since this has been discussed to death I’ll leave it at that.
6. Tim Raines
- I don’t know about the second best lead off hitter of all time, given his overall health and stats, but Rock was one hell of a ball player. On ability alone I’d agree because he could do everything. He played an awfully long time though to not get 3000 hits or 1000 steals (for a guy whose game was built mostly on OBP and speed). He had a great 6 year peak but a really sharp decline, mostly due to injury. Those durability concerns are what resulted in him not hitting those normal HoF rate stats. He was probably as close to Rickey Henderson as there is but injuries prevented him from showcasing that ability consistently.
7. Alan Trammell
- Trammell is another victim of Cal Ripken and Ozzie Smith I think. He wasn’t quite as good as Larkin with the bat, though he wasn’t far behind him. I think he was a bit better in the field than Larkin was though so I see them as a wash more or less. Both should be inducted and probably will be at some point.
Write In Vote:
Lou Whitaker
- Yes I know he’s not on the ballot and for the life of me I don’t understand why he only received 15 votes in ‘01. Check the numbers though and he’s probably a top 10-15 second baseman of all time. He is the best AL second baseman of the late 70s-early 90s (correct me if I’m forgetting someone), since Alomar was in the NL until 1991 and didn’t do much in the AL till 1993. He was a very good hitter (ranks up there with Joe Morgan, minus the speed, and Ryne Sandberg) and a very good defensive second baseman. He should be in.
Bubble:
Andre Dawson
Dale Murphy
- Gonna lump these two together into the Hall of Really, Really Good Players who just aren’t quite there. I know I’ve championed Dawson in the past but the more I’ve looked at it, the more I’ve come to agree with the consensus that he was a really good player but not quite HoF material. Murphy was a perennial 25-30 HR, 90-100 RBI guy. All I remember of his defense is that he had a cannon for an arm. Both had pretty nice peaks but if the choice came down to one or the other for me it would be Murphy because he had the better peak and he got on base at a somewhat decent clip.
Jack Morris
- The guy just flat out took the ball every day. He’s the winningest pitcher of the 80s but he lost a lot of games too. He compares nicely to a guy like Red Ruffing who is already in the Hall of Fame but he compares pretty favorably to Jamie Moyer too and I just can’t see Jamie Moyer making the Hall of Fame. If he had more strikeouts, more shutouts, threw a couple no hitters, or just dominated the league for a period of time (3-4 years at his peak) then I’d view him more favorably I think. He was always one of the top 4 or 5 starters in the AL for the bulk of his career but I don’t think he was ever the best starter in the AL at any point in his career.
goodnight sweet prince
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/randy-johnson-to-announce-retirement.html
appropriate thread to announce this in
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it's not the 175 million, the five cy youngs, the 4,875 strikeouts, the 3.29 ERA, or the perfect game i'll remember
it’s this.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
HFS
i’ve never seen that before. that thing EXPLODED. fucking epic
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
You've never seen that?
That’s surprising
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
never?
wow.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
never seen it?
well… you’ve been missing out.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
haha
i’ve been watching baseball for like 15 years
but never like this and hardly at all from like ages 15-21 or so. so, i’m not surprised that i haven;t seen this, but i wouldn’t classify myself as new to baseball
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I knew exactly what you linked to before I clicked
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Ya..I'm at work and YouTube is blocked.....
I assume that the link contains a bird. Or it was at one time.
* is an Asshat
Why was he batting righty?
I remember the Unit throwing over John Kruk’s head in an ASG once and then making him look stupid on three heaters
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 5, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
It was opposite day.
He tried to get jersey number ‘EE’ but the equipment manager wasn’t having it.
Now with extra feisty!
big unit nooooo
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He could become a closer
and probably play another 6 years. He should soooo totally do it.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Buzz B just said "people say who are the heroes left, and there's only Albert."
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
so this is on-topic?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Perfectly.
Although Buzz has got a lot of competition in the Jerk/Blowhard Sportswriter HOF. I may not vote for him since he’s only a first-ballot candidate. And I never went to the ballpark to see Buzz be a jerk.
But Jack Morris, on the other hand …
i don't know anyone in the whole world who thinks more highly of themselves then buzz effing bissinger
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
WAT ABOUT JETAH?
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I dunno where to start on this
2. There has been a lot of buzz in the industry that Omar Minaya favored Matt Holliday much more than Bay, but because of the finances was pushed by ownership to focus on the less expensive Bay. Minaya insisted that was not true; that he likes both players a great deal. In fact, Minaya said that he saw the value of the players as similar, and if they were that close it would be foolish not to take the finances into account. The likelihood is that Holliday will receive a contract for $40 million or more guaranteed than the $66 million assured to Bay.
3. Multiple Mets officials said they know the metrics show the opposite, but that their scouts contend Bay is a better defender than Holliday. Not only does that dispute statistical findings, but pretty much the scouting perception around the game. So Met scouts are on the griddle for this one if it turns out that Bay cannot handle the spacious left field at Citi Field.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
The Mets have gone from
semi-annual division winners to cuckoo in a disturbingly short period of time.
Injuries decimated them in 2009.
Reyes, Beltran, and Delgado all went down. That’s pretty brutal. I would bet that they are very much in the hunt for a 2010 playoff berth if Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Bay, and Santana stay healthy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
But I recall
before 2009, there was a lot of commentary that Minaya was dropping the ball by not having any depth behind his starting 8.
Injuries suck and all, but it’s not like they were a well built team independent of those injuries. I’m not as bullish on the Mets this year and certainly not the next few seasons as those players age.
I don't recall such commentary,
but that does not mean that such criticisms were not made about the Mets’ roster construction. However, I would counter with the question of what club could stand to lose their leadoff hitter, cleanup hitter, and number 5 hitter, yet still be playoff competitive? On May 19th, the day of Reyes’s injury (if I remember correctly), the Mets were 1 GB of Philly, but had a better run differential. On June 22nd, the day Beltran went on the DL, they were 1.5 GB of the Phillies. Very few teams could cope with losing three of the top four hitters on their club.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
they're the astros of the east
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
but he had 15 assists!
He must be a great OF.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Watching Holliday patrol left field last year didn't make you question his UZR rating?
I know it made me more skeptical.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
It certainly does not.
It also does not mean that Bay’s UZR is wrong, either. Holliday’s UZR being overly rosy does not mean that Bay’s is overly harsh, to be sure, but I would not hold up UZR as definitive proof that Holliday is above-average in LF and Bay is the second-coming of Mannywood in left.
I wonder if the Mets have their own defensive metric, or, if they just rely on scouts. If they only rely on scouts for gauging a player’s defensive skill, then Omar should not be in charge.
All of that said, Matt Holliday, more than any other player, has caused me to question UZR. Outside of him, it seems to compliment what your eyes are telliing you: Brendan Ryan is excellent, Colby Rasmus is unequaled, Skip improved as the season went on, Ludwick is a solid defender, etc. Holliday’s play in left just doesn’t line up with his UZR, and I’m not even talking about the NLDS. Of couse, 2009 was his worse UZR year, so, maybe next year, we’ll see an improvement from Holliday (provided he is wearing the birds-on-the-bat).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
I ask this without thinking about it much
what left fielders look significantly better than Holliday by the eye test? I don’t watch much (any?) baseball beyond the Cards, but it seems like the LF bar might just be really low.
by brackenthebox on Jan 5, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think UZR just doesnt measure LF very accurately
I blame it on on the ballparks and those silly quirks
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I think that there is something to that.
Is there a LF UZR list anywhere? Who are our LFers?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, these two ideas are not contradictory
1. Matt Holliday is not a good defensive outfielder
2. Matt Holliday has a positive-value UZR in LF
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 5, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
The mind of Minaya
I am SOOOOOO glad Minaya marches to the beat of a different drummer. With his budget and a clue, he could build a monster team. Instead, he’ll get to watch Bay playing “the spacious left field at Citi park.”
This is fundamentally...
why the NL is worse than the AL. The AL has Epstein and Cashman leading the way and everyone has to match or be irrelevant. The NL has Colletti, Hendry, and Minaya. There is no NL team that combines the big wallet with enlightened decision-making.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
the AL has
Riccardi and Moore though
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Ithink guayzimi was making a point about big market clubs with good GMs.
The NL doesn’t really have any, while the two biggest market clubs, both in the AL, each have a pretty good GM.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Lee Smith
yeah, I’m biased. he’s one of my favorite all time players
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 5, 2010 5:23 PM EST reply actions
now this is what sports is all about
courtesy of the sometimes hated bryan burwell
and i should note that I know the family and can truly say they’re some of the nicest people you’ll ever meet. i suppose that’s cliche but its true.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
that was very touching
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Thanks for making me cry.
Good job Kirkwood. I can give credit where it’s due.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
you're just tempting him to post moar bakon
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I sum up.
(and I think I’ll keep subject-lining these with “I sum up” so it’s easy to find.)
someone rescued the princess…?
MOAR LURKERS. welcome them.
lurker one, lurker two, lurker three, lurker four
Mister Eff has a sighting, complete with drawing.
Holliday real estate (with ventures into St. Louis and high schools)
the rest of it is news and links and signings, so you’d better keep up with the news in your neighborhood, because this is the biggest small town in the world.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
haha
fist?
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
I wish the SBN powers-that-be...
would add seconds to the time stamp. That would be most helpful.
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
Don't we know that guayzimi was at least one second earlier in posting?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 5, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
that would only result in all sorts of sbn'ing races/virtual drinking games...
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
VEB Power Inning...a beer for each new thread?
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
i was thinking every minute you try to post right on the :00
however many seconds you miss it by is how many drinks you take
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
yikes
that could get sloppy…
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'd get drunk just based on my internet connection lag
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
scene: man is drooling on computer keyboarded, surrounded by a little of beer bottles
Man (slurring): Damn you Windows ME!!!!
end scene
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
edit function!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
This is a lesson to you...
there’s no time for fancy linking where breaking news is concerned…
4-6 more WAR in 2010!
lesson learned
just f’in post it.
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
psh
it’s a time for celebrating, right?
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
two simultaneous posts
did you know our grandparents sometimes didn’t know the results of a series until all 3 games had already been played?
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Jan 5, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
it's a wonder the game survived
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 5, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW
We may only be hours away. So we should have news early next week. :/
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
EXCITING
HSDFKHSDFSDIFHSDFKNADFI!!!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's done.
7/120, according to SI. Discuss.
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
meh
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it has to come from someone besides Heyman before I will believe it
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
actually
if the 7th year is an option or vesting, i like it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
7/120 is not a good deal.
Not Vernon Soriano-bad, but still bad.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
FANSHOT--MIGRATE
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/posts/list?type=FanShot
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:54 PM EST reply actions
fanpost worthy, surely
no one looks at fanshots
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
NEW LINK
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/1/5/1235636/holliday-signs-for-7-120-says-si
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
nevermind
tom’s on it.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, not fast enought
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
my fanshot was faster :p
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 5, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
one day you will learn
faster is not always better.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
damn it fang
don’t be go twittering something based on Heyman!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
well, he is boras' lackey
probably pretty good for this kind of stuff
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
This
As far as being in the know regarding rumors and such, he’s pretty good.
Could not care less for his analysis though.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
I'm not sure I believe you without a link.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/1/5/1235632/holliday-signs-with-cards-for-7-120
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
we have a front page post up.
the sbn folks apparently like their breaking news in front page status.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
glad if it's done
A little more than I would have liked, but I’ll be happy to see Lego in the lineup. In LF, maybe not so much.
Voted for
Ventura, Smith, Raines, Mattingly, Baines, Blyleven and Martinez, without checking stats. These were the names of the 80’s and 90’s, and I liked them. So, there’s that.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 5, 2010 8:18 PM EST reply actions
when Lee Smith came into games, you knew it was over
he was also lots of fun to watch pitch
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 6, 2010 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
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