NL Central Offseason Revue Pt. 3: The Houston Artificial Grass Substitutes
To open with a particularly apropos quote, I'm not here to talk about the past.
No, my concern this morning is not the past, ladies and gentlemen, but the future! The future of the division we all hold so dear to our collective breasts, that extra-teamed group known as the National League Central. I come before you today not to dwell upon what has gone before, but to shed light on what shall be! I ask you, are you ready, ladies and gentlemen?
What was that? I can't hear you! I said, are you ready?!
Alright, now that we're all properly pumped up, let us take a look at the next team in our (now) alphabetically organised list of competitors: the Astros of Houston, Texas.
Houston Astros 2009 Record: 74-88, 17 games out of first
Pythagorean Record: 68-94 (643 runs scored, 770 allowed)
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I just don't quite understand what the Houston Astros are thinking most days. Drayton McLane just seems to get crazier and crazier every year, and a once-great franchise just seems to be slowly sinking further and further into the sea. Then again, the Astros have had a couple very strong drafts in a row now, so perhaps there is hope on the horizon after all.
Nonetheless, I'm having a hell of a time figuring out just how the Astros look at the world. As bad as their record was, they actually outperformed their pythagorean, so the truth may be even more unpleasant than the reality. With that in mind, you might think the Astros would finally do the unthinkable and start their badly needed rebuilding process in earnest.
Yes, you might think that. However, you would be wrong.
Offense: It was supposed to be the strength of the Astros going into the 2009 season, an offense featuring bats up and down the lineup capable of producing. Unfortunately, someone forgot to tell the Astros' hitters how imposing they were supposed to be, and the results were not so good.
Lance Berkman still makes the Houston offense go, and he'll be back in 2010. The Big Puma's production numbers slipped a bit from 2008 to '09, largely due to some nagging injuries, but he still managed to provide the 'Stros with a force in the middle of the lineup. Carlos Lee, the Astros' other big-ticket hitter, was good as well, but he wasn't great. The unfortunate thing, of course, is the Astros are paying Lee to be great.
Hunter Pence proved to be a solid contributor, an .800+ OPS hitter with plus defense in right field. Michael Bourn wins the Great Leap Forward Award, as he improved his OPS by 150 points from 2008 to 2009. (.588 to .738) An OPS+ of 96 may not seem all that impressive, but when it comes from a solid defensive center fielder, it certainly isn't anything to sneeze at, either. (See also Rasmus, Colby)
That's the good. Now for the bad.
The Astros gave over 500 plate appearances to Kaz Matsui and his .659 OPS. They also gave Ivan Rodriguez half a season's worth of ABs to put up a .662. Rodriguez will be plying his trade elsewhere this season, so that helps. The same can't be said of Matsui, sadly.
Houston did go out and sign Pedro Feliz to a very nice contract; at $4.5 million he should represent a solid value. Feliz isn't much shakes with the lumber, though, preferring to make his money with the glove. He'll be better overall that Geoff Blum was, but I'm not sure how much he'll really contribute to the cause of improving the Houston offense.
The biggest departure for the Astros on the offensive side of things is Miguel Tejada, who posted a .795 OPS last year at short. It appears Houston will attempt to fill Tejada's shoes with Tommy Manzella, a 26 year old who posted a .750 OPS last year in Triple A. The reports on Manzella's defense are generally positive, and he should represent a definite upgrade over the increasingly immobile Tejada. Still, the dropoff in offense may make the whole thing a zero-sum game. Of course, the money saved still makes it the right decision.
As far as the catcher position, I really don't have much of a read on what the 'Stros are thinking. The two favourites for the job are JR Towles, who has struggled badly since his red-hot debut, but still has a ton of talent and certainly could be used strictly as an anti-Cardinal weapon if all else fails. Humberto Quintero played a significant amount at the big league level last year and looks like a solid if unspectacular player. He didn't hit a ton, but garnered positive reviews for his defense, throwing out 46% of attempted basestealers. Between Quintero and Towles, the Astros likely have most of the backstop playing time locked up at little more than league minimum.
One intriguing option could be Jason Castro, the Astros' first-round pick in 2008. He's still awfully young, and is almost certainly headed to Triple A to begin the season, but his ceiling is almost certainly higher than either of the 'Stros incumbents, and it's not out of the realm of possibility Castro could make his way to Houston this year.
Starting Pitching
Just as Lance Berkman is the engine that drives the Houston offense, the Astros' starting rotation is largely driven by a superstar moving into the downside of his career: Roy Oswalt. Oswalt is still a very good starter, though his 2009 numbers were certainly a step down from his typical season. Nonetheless, I fully expect to see Oswalt on the mound for the Astros on Opening Day and inhabiting the nightmares of Cardinal fans throughout the summer.
There was, however, a bit of a passing of the torch in 2009, as the top of the Houston rotation saw Wandy F. Rodriguez step forward to become the team's de facto ace. Perhaps fittingly, Wandy also inherited Oswalt's position in baseball as a whole, as he may now be the most underrated pitcher in the game. Unfortunately for the rest of the division, there's really nothing in Wandy's statistical profile that suggests he's due to fall off a cliff any time soon.
The rest of the Astros' rotation in 2009 was a rather piecemeal affair, with Brian Moehler making 29 starts and Mike Hampton, Felipe Paulino, Russ Ortiz(!), and Bud Norris combining to shoulder the rest of the load. Of those five, Moehler, Paulino, and Norris all look to be returning in 2010. Moehler is a really, really bad starter, except when he's pitching against the Cardinals. He's sort of like the JR Towles of the pitching world. Norris and Paulino, on the other hand, are extremely talented young pitchers who both need nothing more than time to develop. Norris is a bit further along, and looked like an emerging young stud at times last year. Paulino may have even more electric stuff, but is also quite a bit more raw.
The Astros recently made a move to upgrade their rotation with the addition of Brett 'Why Do You Make Me Hit You?' Myers. He'll slot in behind Wandy and Oswalt, if he can prove he's fully healthy, and could certainly represent a powerful force as a #3 starter.
And then, of course, the mere fact that Russ Ortiz won't be anywhere near the Houston rotation in 2010 is cause enough for optimism. Call it the Todd Wellemeyer Effect.
Bullpen
And here's where things get really weird. Two words: Brandon Lyon.
Last season, Houston had one of the toughest closers in all of baseball, with Jose Valverde locking up the leads he managed to get. Valverde won't be with the Astros in 2010, leaving a very large hold at the back end of their bullpen. It looks as if they will try to fill in that hole with a combination of two Winter Meeting pickups: Matt Lindstrom and the aforementioned Mr. Lyon. Lindstrom is certainly the more imposing of the two, with closer stuff, but Brandon Lyon somehow keeps getting handed closer jobs, and I just can't quite figure it out. How the 'Stros deal with the end of games may be one of the more intriguing storylines in the entire division this coming season.
The rest of the bullpen was solid, but not extremely noteworthy in '09. Jeff Fulchino and Tim Byrdak were both useful arms and will return in 2010. LaTroy Hawkins was shockingly good, but has taken off for greener pastures.
Offseason Priorities
Honestly, it seems the Astros have already finished what they're likely to do this offseason. They paid way too much for Brandon Lyon to help fill in for the departing Valverde, and the signing of Brett Myers gives them a remarkably solid rotation. (Well, potentially, anyway.)
Other than those moves, Houston actually appears to be in a bit of a holding pattern. The outfield is set, the right side of the infield is under contract. They seem to be looking at internal options for both catcher and shortstop, with catcher in particular a position the Astros have high hopes for in the very near future. Feliz gives them a solid presence at third base, though he certainly isn't a long-term solution.
I think the Astros are probably finished. They don't really even have a need for any utility help with Geoff Blum and Jeff Keppinger both hanging around, so even the fringe moves we so often see for teams going into spring training will likely be thin on the ground in Astroland.
The Bottom Line
I don't think the Astros are going to be much of a threat this season. I look at their woeful Pythagorean record from a year ago and I see a team who just doesn't have the firepower to get it done. Then, I look at what their rotation could be capable of, and I'm not so sure. If Oswalt returns to form and Wandy can replicate his 2009 performance, they have an elite 1-2 punch. Myers is remarkably similar to Brad Penny in my assessment; both are power pitchers who have always had better arms than results and have fallen on hard times recently. Either one could easily recapture some bit of their promise and end up being very, very good.
At the back of the rotation, I think Houston holds a real advantage. Norris is an emerging star, and Kyle Lohse is, well, Kyle Lohse. The 5th starter spot is probably a wash, with Houston having the more dynamic arm in Paulino but the Cardinals having the more impressive pitcher in Garcia. (Plus whatever else may come.) At the very least, the 'Stros could always just stick Moehler in that 5th spot against the Cardinals and ensure themselves of one victory in any given series.
Personally, I see the Astros back in the 4th/5th spot in the division, the victims of an offense that could really use some more oomph and a bullpen that won't come near the standards of Houston bullpens past. Then again, I also see them as the team most likely to beat you 3-2 on any given day, and that could very well make them a dangerous team.
The Baron's Playlist for the 13th of January, 2009
"Metanoia" - MGMT
"Think Long" - Mates of State
"The City Waltz" - The Ghost is Dancing
"X-Pat" - Octoberman
"Save Me Save Me" - Xiu Xiu
"Laura" - Girls
2 recs |
537 comments
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Comments
We traded Kyle Lohse...
to the Astros? Brilliant!
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
I just don't see Houston factoring into the division this year
Too many things have to go perfectly right for them to win more than 85 games, and it’s going to take more than 85 wins to nab the division.
They have a great one, two punch in the rotation, just like the Cardinals, unfortunately if falls off a fucking cliff after that. We think the CARDINALS need more starters? Astros fans are going to get treated to Replacement Level Tuesday, Minor League Equivalent Wednesday, and Is This the Wife Beater from Philly? Thursdays all season long. I guess that will lead to some exciting games, if you like watching the opposing team score a crapload of runs and beat up your bullpen so bad that they’re then ineffective when Wandy and Oswalt pitch and actually give your team a chance to win.
I don’t understand why they didn’t just sign Valverde and trade for Lindstrom — they probably would have spent a little more money than they did on Lyon, but at least they’d have a legit closer at the back end of the bullpen.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 13, 2010 11:55 AM EST reply actions 13 recs
+1
it seems hard for me to imagine the astros not coming in 5th or 6th. wandy and oswalt have to basically go out and throw complete games every fifth day for them to even have a chance, and that only adds up to 60ish wins.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 13, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand why they didn’t just sign Valverde and trade for Lindstrom — they probably would have spent a little more money than they did on Lyon, but at least they’d have a legit closer at the back end of the bullpen.
Yup. They could’ve saved a couple of mill on 3B by just signing Joe Crede, too, who’s Pedro Feliz with more injury issues.
I also kind of agree with you that RB is somewhat over-rating the back end of the Astros’ rotation. Paulino isn’t that great and Norris is yet to convince me. Still, IF everything breaks right they could have a good rotation.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 13, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
If they have Moehler
We are SCREWED!
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I lol'd
Astros fans are going to get treated to Replacement Level Tuesday, Minor League Equivalent Wednesday, and Is This the Wife Beater from Philly? Thursdays all season long.
A rec for you, sir
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
And one from me...
Maybe they could make a T-shirt? Put that up against old 10-run Sunday ones or something.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 13, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
where's Flim? he's the t shirt man
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Seems to me
the Astros may be a little smarter than you give them credit, RB (though probably only a little). Sounds like they have a program this year to develop their young starting pitching. With so much of it, and the problems on offense, they probably aren’t going anywhere this year whatever else they do. Reasonable to (semi) write off this year, give their young pitchers and shortstop playing time to see what they have, and perhaps try harder next year. Of course, this assumes Oswalt, Berkman, and Lee will still be productive then.
It's going to get ugly this year in Houston
What they gained in Feliz, they lost with Manzella; what they gained with Myers, they lost with Lyon. Plus there’s dropoffs waiting to happen all over the place: Oswalt and his bulging disks, Wandy, Bourn… Bourn alone is going to hemorrage 2.5 wins according to CHONE, and this is a team that had a 68-94 pythg record last year.
As for their pitching, I’ll bet you anything Moehler starts in the rotation and Paulino gets kicked to the pen…
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Yeah, but I'm like of like CRay.
You have to give the franchise some credit for being willing to hang on to their core players, even if they are past their prime a bit. Oswalt and Berkman have been the face of that franchise for years, and it creates a lot of good will to the community that the ’Stros are willing to be that loyal to them. They did the same with Biggio, and they tried to be as loyal as they could with Ausmus.
I wish they weren’t in the Central, because I like the way they are run. They are my second-favorite team. They aren’t terribly hamstrung by horrible contracts (except Lee) into the future, and they do have some very exciting young players both in the minors and at the ML level.
With all that being said, they should be penalized 10 wins every year for having the dumbest ballpark in the major leagues.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
There's something...
to be said for loyalty, but they’ve lost attendance four years in a row and are now 9th of 16 teams in the NL, according to BR data. Their strategy since 2006 is to go into every season with no legitimate shot, play poorly, spend a bunch of money without getting any better, then rinse and repeat.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Agreed
when you’re losing fans as it is, maybe it’s best to trade Oswalt and Berkman while they still have some value, then start over fresh with a bunch of young prospects and a rebuilt farm system while letting the kids play.
They went all-in a couple of years ago at the wrong time and gave up way to much for Tejada. Their lineup could really use Luke Scott about now, considering that Berkman is the only LHH they have that can scare anyone. Feliz is a worthless signing, and Lyon is signed for multiple years after a so-so campaign in Detroit last year where he couldn’t hold down the closer or set-up jobs.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think I follow the Astros closer...
than any team, aside from the Cards. They won the pennant in 05, were 500 in 06, then lost 90 in 07. At that point, Berkman and Oswalt were still beasts and Lee’s contract was semi-movable given his decent performance. They could’ve acquired massive talent and cleared payroll. Instead they went with Tejada and Kaz Matsui. We’re really lucky they went in that direction.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
That's what I was trying to say
Had they gone in another direction, kept Luke Scott, and signed, say, Adam Everett to play SS, they’d look a lot better right now, that’s for sure. They also could have kept Chad Qualls and not overpaid to acquire Valverde and his huge contract. They’ve kinda lost the Bourn trade too, as Lidge turned in at least one good season in Philly and Bourn really hasn’t lived up to his potential.
Although I’m sure they didn’t think the Jason Lane and their two catching prospects were going to be complete busts either.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It's fun to think back...
on all the fiascos – Jason Jennings seems so long ago.
Once McLane sells the team and they’re able to reset the payroll in 2012, they’ll soon be the cream of the NL Central. The natural order – given market size/geography/stadium – is Houston, Chicago, STL/Cincy, Milwaukee/Pittsburgh. There’s just so much stupidity in this division right now…
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Hmmmm. . .
I don’t know that I agree with that ordering of market size. Houston is a bigger metro area to be sure, but as far as a “baseball market”, I don’t see it outranking either Chicago or St. Louis.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
CHicagoland is almost twice as big
9.something million to 5.something million.
If you cut Chicagoland down to just Cook County, it’s probably 7m.
But...
half of Chicago doesn’t care for the north siders and they’ve got a pee wee stadium. If they could charge $9 for a bottle of water like at Fenway, that would be one thing, but prices seem relatively reasonable. I think their revenues are roughly comparable, from what I’ve read.
Another thing to consider: Houston built it’s last great team out of Texans who wanted to come home and were willing to take a discount. Texas pumps out a ton of talent. I happen to think Houston is an armpit, but I lot of people like it.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
No way is Houston a better baseball market than Chicago
Houstonians only come when the ’Stros win. Cubs fans will fill the stadium no matter how bad the Cubs are. The Cubs also have big revenue streams from the surrounding rooftops, local TV, etc.
St. Louis is a better baseball market too, IMHO, and a better stadium.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
that's entire metro area, though
actual city pop is chicago – 2.8, houston – 2.2
thy’re pretty comparable in size
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
They’ve kinda lost the Bourn trade too, as Lidge turned in at least one good season in Philly and Bourn really hasn’t lived up to his potential.
Not really sure I agree. Bourn was really valuable last year, and he really turned around his hitting profile, got on base at an acceptable clip (slightly BABIP-inflated, I think, but given his speed if he can even maintain an average OBP he’s quite valuable down the order), and is a good fielder. I think they got several cheap years of an above-average player for a slightly over-rated and expensive closer, personally.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
thing is
they haven’t really got enough young, impact talent in the high minors to do much in the forthcoming year or two. Castro’s about their only good prospect at that level, and he only really profiles as an average-to-slightly-above catcher, from what I’ve heard. They’re pretty much stuck treading water and hoping to luck into the postseason for the next 2 years. Trouble is, they’ve had a TON of luck the last two seasons and finished well off the pace. If it all breaks even, they’re headed to a pretty bad record, IMO.
The young starters they have (Paulino & Norris) are OK but they’re not going to be aces at the big league level. Likewise the other young role-players (Pence, Bourn, Manzella) – they either know what they’ve got (above average guys in pence & bourn) or they’re not going to turn into anything special (Manzella).
Also, they’ve got an owner who knows nothing about baseball and is apparently trying to offload the team (and who I suspect might trim payroll if he can’t), and a GM who may well be close to the worst in baseball. They really need to rebuild, trouble is, the ownership and front office are not the right people to get it done.
I’ve said a couple of times here that I think the Astros could be headed into being the worst franchise in baseball in a year or two; perhaps that’s slightly melodramatic, but I really feel that going into a holding pattern now is doing them no good. They should trade berkman sometime close to the deadline, keep Lee as their notional “star” for the fans (i.e. because no-one will eat that horrific contract) and perhaps look to get some value out of, say, Hunter Pence, as he might be their best trade chip. It’s time to blow this thing up.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 13, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't disagree, Felonius
but given their situation, what else can they do but hope for luck? And, as said above, they will keep attendance up by holding on to some of their key (and well-liked) players. IF some of their youngsters prove to be better than anticipated, then next year they might try to sign some better free agents and try to seriously contend. Though as you said, this would imply they know what they are doing!
there's some truth in that, actually
it probably doesn’t hurt them THAT much, now they’ve built a team to TRY to contend, to at least have a go this year. I can’t imagine too many teams are beating down the door to trader top prospects for any of their players, and a good season for Berkman (who, Pence aside, is probably their best asset) may help him regain some value. Perhaps he’ll actually be worth more at the deadline than he is now.
That’s the trouble when your major league team is treading water, your minor league system is mediocre and lacks impact talent, and your front office isn’t very good. Your hands are kinda tied. Even with the sort of rebuilding effort they need, they probably won’t be very relevant for a few years. However, putting it off just puts back the amount of time until they’ll be a winning team again.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 13, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I feel bad for 'Stros fans.
They had a really exciting team a few years ago. They don’t have much to look forward to for a while unless some changes are made at the top soon.
by arch support on Jan 13, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
as long as Dayton Moore is still employed
he’s guaranteed #30 on the GM power rankings, but point taken.
That's a little unfair
Minaya gives him a run for his money…and Minaya has a hell of a lot more cash to work with!
I still think Moore's probably the worst GM around
but I agree he could probably do more with his “process” if he had more money to make it work. You can actually get decent players of the sort he likes with a bit of payroll. I’m sure the Royals would still suck, though.
Also, KC have done OK in terms of minor league development, compared at least to some teams. Whilst that’s not entirely Moore’s domain, I suppose I’d give him a lick of credit for it.
IMO, Brian Sabean and Ed Wade should be in the discussion too. Neither have a clue how to value major league talent and build a team with it, and consistently make moves that show facile over-estimation of certain player types, and a fundamental lack of understanding of what they actually need to add to improve. Wade’s stubborn reluctance to realise the Astros have been non-competitive for 3 years (if you include 2010) and to rebuild is one of the strangest pieces of cognitive dissonance in the GM world…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 7:40 AM EST up reply actions
a rebuilding theme fits with everything except throwing a pile of money at brandon lyon.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
so is it officially known as a rebuliding theme park?
I’ve need to check if fritz has a title on that artwork
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
no, that just means it needs to be rebuilt
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
is this where I mention someone wants to buy the team?
Someone wants to buy the team. McLane insists this does not mean he’s trying to sell.
Also they DFA’d Bourgeois.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Who the hell are the Astros and what do they have to do with Mark McGwire?
by Mister Eff on Jan 13, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
as much they're taking shots at Cards fans for forgiving and forgetting and pie
I don’t think most of the national media realizes: Hal McRae was that bad. He was that bad! Of course that’s relief in the streets of St. Louis.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
is it alright to pop in some Reds blurbs in a Stros post?
“So here’s the metaphor I used when teams expressed concern this would be for just the highest bidder, like New York or Boston,” Hendricks said. “‘If I had a great first baseman from Cuba, do you think I’d call the St. Louis Cardinals first?’ We wanted opportunity. We would like to put him in a system where he’d have an opportunity to emerge sooner.”
Besides staying competitive with the money and offering opportunity, the Reds also stressed the intangibles that would eventually help sway Chapman.
“We talked about having a Latin catcher [Ramon Hernandez] and a manager [Dusty Baker] that speaks Spanish,” assistant GM Bob Miller said. “We talked about our new facility in Goodyear, Ariz., and there being a good, young core of pitchers and players he could grow with. We talked up Bryan Price and the history of the Reds. He liked the idea of wearing the ‘C’ on his head.”
I have no words.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Hmmmmm
He liked the idea of wearing the ‘C’ on his head."
All in favor of developing a special occasion Cardinals baseball cap (to be used on opening day, holidays, etc.) that has a C on it to lure braindead Cuban players to St. Louis please say “Aye.”.
AYE!
Thanks everyone, motion passed by a count of 4,000,000 to 1 (Damn you LaRussa and your traditionalist tendencies!!!)
You’re right Mr. Hendricks — his signing with Cincy had nothing to do with their offer being double what everyone else’s offer was.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Baker speaks Spanish?
I can just see Chapman listening, eyes growing wide with with fear, as Dusty tells him, “Mantengo mi juventud devorando las carreras de jarras jovenes.”
by dronemc on Jan 13, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ciento cincuenta tiros...
son muy pocos por un caballo como ti…
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
fyi - lanzador is the player; jarra is the thing you pour water out of.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
Noted.
Future attempts at cross-lingual humor will first include a vocab check.
it was pretty funny, though. i rec'd it nonetheless.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
But does...
Dusty know that?
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
I took French in high school
Someone translate this sentence about a jar for me.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
It means...
I maintain by your by devouring the careers of young [water carrying mechanisms]. I used the wrong spanish word for “pitcher”, it would seem.
so does Tony
it’s inexplicable.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
English mot...... aw screw it
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
He has devoured the careers of fine young pitchers before....
Dusty would not be my choice to develop a talented young pitcher, but who am I to say?
Those toothpicks he's always chewing...
…are made out of shoulder shavings from Mark Prior.
If I were a Reds fan, I'd give up baseball, just based on that last paragraph
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
it's really sad up here man
really depressingly sad. no media has even talked about this except a couple online stuff.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
brandon jones
lets pick him up and make him our 4th outfielder
this has nothing to do with this post
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That Kiffin is a real p**** eh?
/handegg talk
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
you have no clue
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 13, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Ok more handegg...
I get the sense UT thinks of itself as not the kind of place a guy uses and throws away… The thing is USC is THE ULTIMATE in college jobs. First, it’s LA, second there is no other football team there. Don’t feel too bad…
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
its the ancillary stuff that is killing me
he’s a scumbag, but this was his “dream job” or whatever, so i can give him a pass(though it is shitty to build up morale for a year, then just leave)
what i can’t give him a pass for is they way he is dealing with our recruits…we had 8 players who enrolled early(this semester) and he and orgeron called everyone of them last night and told them not to go to class today, that there were scholarships waiting for them at USC…bushleague
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Brutal...
Big-time college sports is an absolutely cutthroat business.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
I heard there was near rioting on campus
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
ah the rock
college kids are really innovative at times
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
there is some acrostic action there
the lame attempt at a hand doesn’t speak well to their biology or art programs
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Makes me wonder how the students feel about
Tyler Smith, everyone’s fun-loving, drug dealing, gun toting college basketball player. To think, he transferred to UT because of “family concerns”.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Well, actually, his story is kind of sad
He wanted to go to UT originally, but his father hated Pearl. So he went to the basketball that is Iowa. His father then got cancer, and gave his blessing for Tyler to transfer to Tennessee.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
And WHY did his dad not like Bruce Pearl?
Because Bruce is about as clean a college coach as you’re going to find, and blew whistles on recruiting violations back in the 1980’s. That’s why it took him forever to get a big time head coaching job.
Sad story, yes, however, from what I know of Tyler Smith, he’s been a troublemaker just about everywhere he’s been.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Blowing whistles on "alleged" recruiting violations
generally isn’t appreciated by rival schools. You’d better be right about it if you blow the whistle, and it better be egregious, not a bunch of ticky-tack stuff. There’s a reason why Bruce Pearl and Roy Williams are pariahs in the coaching community.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Bruce Pearl and Ryan Braun run in similar circles
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
for shame f,, for shame
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
You think I don't hear this phrase all the time?
As if.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Can you blame him?
If you didn’t have a father, who the hell is there to guide you. I mean, Pearl is a good guy, but he has his own family to worry about, plus you wouldn’t have much of a connection to him. Can’t blame him for how he turned out.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I'm sorry...
But you are clueless on this.
Tyler was committed to Buzz Peterson, with whom Billy had a relationship. Buzz was fired and Billy was upset about it. He had no relationship with Bruce and didn’t want Tyler playing for someone he knew nothing about and subsequently did not trust. It had absolutely zero to do with Bruce Pearl turning in Illinois in 1989. Nothing. No one but Illinois cares about that crap anymore.
Tyler still wanted to go to Tennessee, Billy did not want him there. Bruce visited Tyler at school, it upset Billy, and they asked out of the LOI. Bruce refused, which further harbored the ill will from Billy. Tyler went to prep school and then to Iowa before Billy was diagnosed with cancer. Tyler came back to Tennessee (with his Billy’s blessing) and Billy died before Tyler played a game for Tennessee. Bruce and Billy actually built a positive relationship before his death.
And I’m not sure what “you know” of Tyler Smith, but he has in no way been a troublemaker everywhere he has been. No incidents in high school, no incidents at prep school, no incidents at Iowa, and no incidents at Tennessee prior to the arrest. He made a huge mistake and was dismissed from the program. In regards to your comments about student and fan reaction, no one protested it because it was a justifiable move. He screwed up and is gone. How all this relates to Kiffin jumping ship, I have no idea, but I just thought i should point some things out.
Thanks, I know the whole story
I don’t need to have it read back to me.
No incidents at Iowa? Sorry, it appears you’re ill informed. I’m not going to get into it here, but there were various incidents at Iowa that didn’t make the paper.
Regarding Bruce Pearl: It has everything to do with him turning in Illinois. Buzz Peterson specifically told his Billy about the violations and how Bruce wasn’t someone to be trusted. So Billy took it upon himself to guide his kid elsewhere when it was clear that he would have thrived playing in Bruce Pearl’s system. It’s a clear case of over-parenting, and it cost this kid two years of college and probably an NBA career.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
If you knew the whole story...
You wouldn’t be making stuff up and/or posting the wildly inaccurate information you believe. Absolutely no one has ever indicated that Billy’s distrust of Bruce had to do with the Iowa/Illinois thing. No one. It was 100% about Billy having a very strong relationship with Buzz, Buzz being fired, UT not hiring some nobody Billy wanted them to hire, and Billy getting upset. Bruce Pearl never had a chance with Tyler the first go around.
As for the incidents that “didn’t make the papers”, well, that’s a nice way of saying “I don’t have direct knowledge of ANYTHING, but I slandered the kid and I’m sticking by it with vague references.” I could sit here all day and tell you Tyler spent his free time in Knoxville reading to sick children, only it didn’t make the papers. Gee, what a nice guy. And although that isn’t true, you couldn’t prove it. See how easy it is? No one is classifying Tyler as an angel, but if he had been a “troublemaker” his whole life, it sure stands to reason he would have ended up with legal trouble way before now.
And let’s be honest, now that I see you are an Iowa State fan and maybe even an alum, shouldn’t we take your version of events regarding a former Iowa assistant coach and a former Iowa basketball player with a grain of salt?
"Mommy, is that a rocket ship?"
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
if this is true
orgeron called everyone of them last night and told them not to go to class today, that there were scholarships waiting for them at USC
he is truly a pile of shit
wait - i just read the rules
i’ll rephrase…
Kiffin’s actions are truly shitty.
by _pistol_ on Jan 13, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not only that...
he changed his baby boy’s name from “Knox” to “Angel”
What a clown…
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
is this true
i was wondering if he was gonna do that
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
j/k...
but i wouldn’t put it past him
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Achilles would be a better name probably
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
according to recruits
and some UT officials…its very very true
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
He copped to it...
It’s extremely low but such is the recruiting game.
But it’s all moot because the early enrollees were stuck at Tennessee once it hit 12:01 AM on the first day of class.
So they can either transfer and sit out a year, or ask to be released (would not happen).
it's USC. it's not like he left for bama or flordia
they’ll never meet each other & he never really wanted to be there in the first place. he was just there till something on the west side came up so he jumped.
and the thing about the kids, well you shouldn’t be surprised. welcome to college handegg in the 21st century. of course he’s going to try & take some of them with him. half of USC recruits aren’t coming there since Pete left so he has to try & do something so close to signing day. is it dirty? no, but it’s how the game is played.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
This is the general feeling of everyone...
The thing with offering the early enrollees is as classless as classless gets, but that’s not why people are upset. You are correct in that we do not think of ourselves as a stepping stone job, and most rational college football fans would agree. Snake or not, I believe Kiffin when he says he would not have left for any other job but USC. We all knew he wanted that job ultimately, but no one knew it would come open this soon or that he would be a serious candidate this soon. It was awful, awful timing.
People are upset because he was building something and it was readily apparent. The difference in coaching was obvious, and the recruiting of that staff was lights out. We were on the way back to competing for SEC and national titles in a hurry. But just like that, he’s gone to LA and we’re probably going to be left with a decimated recruiting class. It already puts you behind with 2011 kids, so you’re looking at 2012 before a new staff can really get an even playing field on a recruiting class. Not to mention a new staff will be hard pressed to match the recruiting ability of his staff.
So what all that means is that we won’t be seriously competitive again until probably 2014 or so in a best case scenario. That’s compared to the previous target of 2011, which was the first year we all expected to really compete for an SEC title again. So he effectively set us back further than where we were before he arrived, all because of the timing.
Lane didn’t care about Tennessee, and that’s fine, no one cared as long as we got results. But his “dream job” became available before anyone ever imagined, and he dropped us like a bad habit. He’s not a very good human being, he’s a douchebag, but he’s a very good coach and an unbelievable recruiter. We had a taste of what was to come and he yanked it away. People are pissed. That’s pretty much the gist of it. I would still take him back in a heartbeat.
On the bright side, at least Lane Kiffin used a Trojan when he screwed Tennessee...
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Jan 13, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 15 recs
MAKE IT GREEN
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Good NRI
Too bad the Braves already picked up Hinske. Lefty OF with a little pop who can marginally play 3B would’ve been a good bench move.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
yeah
Hinske made a boatload of sense for us, unfortunately.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 13, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Can Jones play CF?
If not, I’m not sure what the attraction is. Because he’s lefthanded?
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Looks like
he hasn’t played any CF since 2006, and not much then.
Jon Jay’s a likelier success story.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
they should pick him up on a minor league deal and keep him on the memphis roster this season.
The guy has got more upside than any of the OF on the AAA roster. If the guy can get his bat going, he could play a big role for us in future seasons or we could just trade him. The guy was once a highly touted prospect.
he was the 70th rated prospect in america in 2006
that has to count for something, right?
I just was thinking NRI would be good…i he sucks we cut him loose, but maybe he just needed a change of scenery
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Ah, the Astros
Such a worthy foe
a few seasons ago.
…
And that’s about all the poetry I have in me. I will be signing autographs later.
But seriously, Houston is a rather poorly run organization. I don’t mind that they are fairly aggressive every off season and are always adding several pieces and making a few trades and all of that stuff… it’s just that their FO clearly has no clue how to evaluate or how to price players. I mean, Brandon Lyon? Really? Moves like these scream “We have no creativity in our FO!” I guess Lyon’s 54 career saves scream out “Experienced closer.” I guess they have Lindstrom too, who has a big fastball that hasn’t translated into exciting results. And Feliz? The guy can pick it, sure, but he cannot hit. He’s a fine player if you’re surrounding him with guys like Chase Utley and Ryan Howard and Jayson Werth and miracle-season Ibanez, but Houston has Berkman and then a couple of solid guys (Lee and Pence) and… ???? They’re basically tossing a pittance into an already lost cause at third.
Really, how do these moves accomplish anything other than filling out their roster? I don’t remember who said it and don’t have time to go look it up, but in baseball “You’re either getting better or you’re getting worse.” I’m not sure these moves make them worse, but they are certainly doing nothing to suggest they’re heading in the right direction either.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 13, 2010 1:09 PM EST reply actions
is forever just another word?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Astros' Payroll
Houston’s payroll was a little over $103MM last season, which in the top 10, yet they won 74 games and should have won less. I find this fact amazing. C
arlos Lee made $19MM in 2009 for the Astros last season. This reflects the risk for mid-major market clubs (I know how big Houston’s market actually is) when handing out big-money, long-term deals to guys who don’t deserve it. Lee’s contract is terrible. It’s a horrible allocation of resources. He simply doesn’t do anything well enough to warrant a $19MM salary and there was no reason to suspect he would.
Puma made $14.5MM and Oswalt made $15MM. This also shows how difficult it is for a club like the Cardinals or Astros to win with non-great performances from their cornerstone players who are being paid significant salaries. When Berkman’s production goes down (his WAR fell by half from ’08 to ’09), they struggle mightily. Likewise, when Oswalt has a good-but-not-outstanding year, they are unable to make a playoff run.
This reality supports developing a strong farm system all the more. For starters, you are less likely to waste your money on Carlos Lee types by signing them for way more than they are worth. You can also fill in for injured players more easily, allowing you to keep your head above water until Puma is healthy, for example.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Fixed!
This also shows how difficult it is for a club like the Cardinals or Astros to win with non-great performances from their cornerstone players who are being paid significant salaries and you trade all the value in your farm system when overpaying for a 33 (or is it 36?) year old Miguel Tejada and you piss away good money by signing a horrible relief pitcher to a $15M contract
I felt like that was pertinent information on the subject
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Even more fixed!
This also shows how difficult it is for a club like the Cardinals or Astros to win with non-great performances from their cornerstone players who are being paid significant salaries and you trade all the value in your farm system when overpaying for a 33 (or is it 36?) year old Miguel Tejada and you piss away good money by signing a horrible relief pitcher to a $15M contract and then with these mistakes refuse to admit that your team is godawful and don’t trade them for decent farm system material.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Y'know. . .
I’m not as down on Carlos Lee as you are, but I think he’s a pretty good comp for Matt Holliday, as I think about it.
They both signed:
- at similar points in their careers (Lee prior to his Age 31 season, Holliday prior to his Age 30 season, BTW, Happy B-Day, Lego, on Friday)
- after impressive runs of offensive-production, that were based more on batting average than you would ideally like to see (as compared to OBP/wlak rate)
- to play LF and be the second-best hitter on a team with a first-order stud in the lineup (i.e. Berkman, Pujols)
- at a time with both were plus baserunners (seriously, look at Lee’s baserunning numbers pre-Astros for his career he is 115/41 SB/CS)
- and to similar contracts (Lee: 6 years, $100M; Holliday: 7 years, $120M)
Now, it’s not a perfect comparison. Holliday was always a better player than Lee, both offensively (even after adjusting for home parks) and defensively (Lee was further down the inevitable defensive slide when the ‘Stros signed him; his defensive metrics have actually improved substantially since joining the ’Stros, probably thanks to having to cover less ground). Lee’s contract was structured more poorly than Lego’s; as bgh has noted, backloading probably wasn’t a great idea from a tracking value perspective. Lee’s contract was also signed at a time when player value was inflated as compared to now. Lee was also, to put it politely, a bit more pear-shaped than Holliday at the time, although they are both big guys.
All that being said, the comparison makes me feel a bit better about Holliday in the birds on the bat. Lee played 160 games last season while battling through hammy problems and still managed to put up a 300/343/489 line, good for a 118 OPS+ (remember that’s park-adjusted), and a 355 wOBA. I’d take that in year 4 of Holliday’s contract and feel pretty good about it, particularly if he does it while playing hurt like Lee did last season, and that’s without even adjusting for Holliday starting from a bigger “base” of performance than Lee from which to regress/degrade.
-
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Holliday is way more balanced than Lee
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
you can say that again
plus he’s not one of America’s fattest fatties
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I think he did say it again...
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Word on the street is
Holliday is way more balanced than Lee.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Oh don't worry
I have multiple sources.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
by mojowo11 on Jan 13, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
YEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
dude does a mean downward facing dog.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
lego yoga!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it's all on the internet.

some of it isn’t even porn.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
from the A's days
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I didn't get this at first...
Something to be ashamed of or proud of? Or neither? I’m not sure.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
115/41 isn't a good SB%
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
73% isn't bad. . .
and it’s certainly better than you would expect for a fat man.
Besides, it was better than that (75.5%) before he joined the ’Stros.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
So he was good before he signed his huge contract
and he’s been worse since that time, while not stealing hardly any bases over the last few years due to his ever ballooning weight. I don’t see how it’s rational to say that his SB’s make him more worth his contract, when stealing at less than an 80% rate hurts your team and you haven’t stolen more than 10 bases since signing your big fat contract.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Didn't say that.
I said that Lee and Holliday’s situations were very similar when they signed their contract in several respects, including being good basreunners. And as a bad-case scenario for Holliday’s contract, I’d take Carlos Lee’s production in year 4, that’s all.
Also, I thought that 72% was the break-even for base-stealing?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
70% is the breakeven point for sb% IIRC
by vivaelpujols on Jan 13, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
What's his baserunning valued at otherwise?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Nevermind:
Below average, but could have been worse I guess.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Holliday is a far better on-base guy than Lee
Hollidays Walk Rates: 7.2, 7.0, 7.2, 7.2, 9.0, 12.1, 11.0 — Career: 9.1
Lee’s Walk Rates: 2.6, 6.2, 6.4, 13.2, 5.6, 8.4, 8.4, 8.5, 7.8, 7.8, 6.3 — Career: 7.4
Not surprisingly, their career OBPs are not even in the same standard deviation. Holliday’s is .387; Lee’s is .344. Sure, Holliday’s career BA is .318, 17 points higher than Lee’s .291. That higher BA still isn’t enough to bring Holliday’s OBP ISO of 69 down to Lee’s 53. If I were spending $100MM, I’d much, much rather spend it on Holliday than Lee.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm not sure I'd take a .355 wOBA in year 4 of Holliday's contract
the ZiPS projections I linked to in a fanshot a while back actually project him to be nearly that good in the last couple of years of the deal.
I think I’d hope for a LITTLE more.
I think the thing with Lee is, he was never that great a hitter, and he has never walked much. Other than his slightly weird 2002 season where he randomly had a 5% higher walkrate than any other year, he generally hovered around a 6-8% walkrate in Chicago. Also, despite hitting a fair number of HR, he never had the slugging % that Holliday consistently puts up because Holliday’s a better contact hitter and hits more doubles.
They’re not terrible comps, but really, through age 29, Carlos Lee had never put up close to a .400 wOBA year. His best year had been a .379 with the WhiteSox (also in a hitter’s park), and that was quite an outlier, his average being around .360. According to UZR, in the four years up to that point that it counts, he probably wasn’t as good in the field, either. He never approached Holliday on WAR, and was actually below average for a couple of those years.
Holliday, through age 29, with the exception of his first year in the league, has never had a wOBA below .375 and has averaged .400. His OBP beats Lee, and he’s been solidly better as a slugger too, mainly due to his greater contact rate. His BB% has also seen an increase in the last 2 years as he’s become more patient, although his HR rate (and SLG%) has fallen away a bit. He’s a better hitter through age 29, and, to be honest, it’s not even close.
Weirdly, Lee’s not actually been as bad as he might’ve been – he’s actually improved as a hitter since moving to the ‘stros, even though his defence has been solidly bad. He’s been a 3-win player pretty solidly, which is arguably more than they could’ve expected so far for a guy with that type of body and that type of non-elite bat.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
Sure,
the comparison breaks down if you look too closely. Although wOBA tends to make the difference look bigger than it is, since it is not park-adjusted.
I was looking at Lee’s performance kind of as a worst-case scenario for Holliday given the similarity of the contracts. It makes me sleep better at night.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 14, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Although wOBA tends to make the difference look bigger than it is, since it is not park-adjusted.
Agreed, although Lee has spent basically 90% of his career in good-to-great hitters’ parks.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
i know, where is our melancholy barron?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
he's putting himself in position, just in case,
to be the one who can say, “i told you so…”
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
Astros won't be much of a factor
unless Berkman has an amazing season, Oswalt stays healthy and returns to form, Carlos Lee picks up the slack, Hunter Pence goes on a tear, etc etc. so many ifs, and they still don’t have a very good bullpen at that. would take the cubs and cards to underperform and the reds to continue to be the reds of recent memory.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 1:37 PM EST reply actions
Speaking of Valverde
Cardinals apparently made him an offer:
this is awesome news, but i still don't want to give htown our pick
there has to be a way around this
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
wooooot!
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
i'd rather have a first round pick
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I thought the Astros...
didn’t offer arb…. Cancel that woot. It would be nice to put Franklin back in the 8th inning though
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Me, too.
We’re certain that Valverde was offered arbitration?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he was recently featured in an article as the only remaining Type A who would cost a pick.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
Then,
why on earth are we sacrificing our first-round draft pick for him when we could make a run at the other pitchers we’ve discussed. It makes absolutely no sense, especially in the context of the Holliday deal, the forthcoming Pujols megadeal, and the raiding of the farm to trade for DeRosa and Holliday as well as the graduations of many other prospects to the big-league roster.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
preach it!
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
It is only a #25 pick...
we’ve got two other supplementals in the 30s, and an upgrade from Franklin to Valverde is meaningful. I bet he signs for one year, $5 million and a guarantee not to offer arbitration. This could be ok.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Price.
I don’t disagree that Valverde would be an upgrade. However, I think there are other upgrades to be had that do not cost us the no. 25 pick. Why reduce your draft pick total in slots 25-50 by one-third if a comparable upgrade can be had without doing so (and probably at a similar dollar amount)?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
SMOLTZ
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
YES
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
$5M would get us most of the way to a smoltz signing.
and if we really need another reliever, we could get cheaper non-type A relievers whose value would be about one or two runs less than valverde over the whole year. i’m not spending a pick to get two runs.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
I'd definitely prefer Smoltz...
but it seems like something has gone wrong there. Why hasn’t that happened yet?
Or, sign Orlando Hudson, trade Skip for a reliever, and get an upgrade at two positions.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
my surmise is that smoltz would have understood he had to wait for holliday.
being second fiddle to penny may rankle a bit and may eliminate whatever hometown preference we might have gotten.
smoltz is probably third in line of the remaining starters after pineiro and sheets. i bet his market is about 2 weeks out. say the dodgers lose out on pineiro — they could jack up smoltz’s price. if i were him, i wouldn’t settle for anything less than penny money right now.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
I'm not sure
O-Dog is an upgrade at 2B over Skip.
They look like pretty similar players if you ask me. I know Skip has been protected from lefties some, but if you add in the split for his RHH substitute, be it Lugo, or Floppy, or Tyler Greene, my guess is that you come up with a comparable wOBA.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Isn't Hudson *way* better defensively?
Or, would it be more accurate for me to write, “Hudson used to be way better defensively than Skip?”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The second one
Hudson was below average in 150 games there last year: -4 by UZR
Skippy was -8 overall, but he clearly was better at the end of the year than he was at the beginning, so there’s no reason he couldn’t be that good in 2010.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd rather sign Belli.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
*for nothing other than nostalgia,
and the ability to once again use the adjective/nickname “Fatletic” on a regular basis.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
we need that picture
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Thug 4 Life

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
How can I own this photo which commemorates...
…one of the key plays from our magical 2006 title run?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
right click, save image...
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
use it's wisely bgh
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
After decimating the system last year
the Cardinals need as many high end picks as they can get.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
is there anyway we can sign val & not give up the pick?
there has to be a loophole. there’s a loophole for everything
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
1. sawx sign val
2. he blows a series vs the yanks
3. traded to Cards for Fat Miles
4.????
5. Cards beat sawx for WS flags
6. Profit!!!!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
If the Astros sign and trade him
We can trade for him. Didn’t the Twins pull off something similar to this last year?
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
sign him after june
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
he'll get a deal before then though
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
okay?
i was just stating that that’s the only way to sign him without giving up a pick. or being the astros. and i’d rather give up a pick than be the astros. i’d also rather just not have that 0.5-1 WAR and keep the pick
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I think so too,
it all depends on what he costs us, which can’t be much because nobody else seems to even be bidding for his services. If the cost of the draft pick is factored into the contract, I’m fine with it. Seems like the Cardinals do better on supplemental, 2nd, and 3rd round picks lately than they do on first rounders.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I doubt Valverde gets $5M
giving up the draft pick would keep most suitors away, and since the Cards have a couple of other picks in the same territory, they would be the perfect candidate to buy low, IMHO.
Sounds like low-hanging fruit to me.
[ducks]
A pick in that neighborhood is only “worth” around $2-$3M anyway, if memory serves, isn’t it?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
shelby miller would like a word with you
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
He's done nothing at the pro level yet. Nothing
Obviously he has a high ceiling, but I’m not putting the cart before the horse here.
Here are the Cardinals’ first round picks this decade:
Miller, Wallace, Kozma, Ottavino, Rasmus, Tyler Greene, Chris Lambert, Daric Barton, Justin Pope, Shaun Boyd, Blake Williams.
Here are the supplemental and 2nd round picks:
Supplemental: Lance Lynn, Clay Mortenson, Chris Perez, Mark McCormick, Tyler Herron.
Second Round: Robert Stock, Shane Peterson, David Kopp, Jess Todd, Thomas Furnish, John Jay, Mark Hamilton, Josh Wilson, Nick Webber, Mike Ferris, Stuart Pomeranz, Danny Haren, Chris Narveson.
That’s a LOT of value in the supplemental and second rounds, with the best player from this decade coming in the second (Haren). You could make the case that there are as many total busts in the first round (Lambert, Pope, Boyd, Williams) than there are in the second round (Furnish, Wilson, Webber, Ferris, Pomeranz), when they had more picks.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
most of what you're talking about
are jocketty-era moves. wallace and miller are two pretty solid pick ups
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
And Kozma and Ottovino
were bad drafts.
Keep in mind that Mozeliak was in charge of the farm system and draft prep for that last 3-4 years of he Jocketty era, so he’s not blameless in some of these picks either.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
so?
are you actually claiming that this is predictive that our second and below round picks are going to be better than our first round picks?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 14, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I think there's a compelling argument that Ottavino
was a fine draft. He’s got live stuff and a good repertoire. He just never has learned the control that the Cardinals were hoping for.
Now Kozma was a disaster from the get go. . .
Think; It's not illegal yet.
yeah
and he’s still young enough to get better (indeed, for me, there were some very promising signs last year in the 2nd half), or to turn into a competent set-up guy or something. I’d say he’s probably right around the average in terms of what you’d expect from a 20-something draft pick.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
Anyway
My point was that we’ve been really good at finding value in the supplemental and second rounds here, and if Piniero signs elsewhere we’d have 2 supplemental picks and a second rounder.
I think it would be ok, in this scenario, to sign Valverde if he doesn’t eat up all of our remaining budget. One win better than Franklin? Talk about cherry-picking some stats. If you think that Franklin is capable of putting up a season as good as last year’s again, you’re nuts. Dude had an ERA below 1.00 at the All Star break — I don’t see that happening again. Valverde strikes out 10 guys per 9, walks about as many as Franklin does, and doesn’t blow very many saves (fewer than 10% of his save opportunities career). He’s a very good closer.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
how am i cherry picking stats?
i used the most commonly accepted metric around here for total value. franklin’s average season WAR is right around replacement level. the last few seasons, valverde has average less than 1 WAR. closers are too overvalued. i’ll be damned if i’m gonna give up a first round pick and 5-7MM for 1 WAR and a maximum of 5 saves difference.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 14, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
WAR
does a really shitty job of grading closers because it doesn’t have leverage index to value their innings pitched or the an adjustment based on hitters faced.
Mariano Rivera has the best WAR of any reliever last year….2 WAR. Two. I’m sorry, but I think Rivera is worth much more than 2 wins to the Yankees because of when he pitches and who he pitches to.
WXRL isn’t perfect, but it manages to value relievers better than WAR does. Unfortunately, I can’t find the WXRL figures for this year and I don’t have a subscription to BP. If you do, you can look it up, but I’ll bet that Valverde is at the top of the second tier of closers over the last 3 seasons in WXRL, and is light years better than any guy in the Cardinal bullpen over that span. I’d also wager that he was better than Franklin even LAST season, when Franklin had a career year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jan 14, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
depends if you buy into LI
i’m not sure i do. and i don’t know why relievers should be graded particularly different than other relievers/players. there’s pretty good evidence to suggest that the concept of a closer is bullshit anyway. if you put a league average relieve in the ninth inning how much worse is his save percentage gonna be than rivera’s? not much, i would wager. i think 2 WAR seems reasonable considering the amount of innings he gets
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
if you put a league average relieve in the ninth inning how much worse is his save percentage gonna be than rivera’s?
Kinda off-topic, but there’s probably a reasonable argument that we don’t even have one of those (except maybe from the left side).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
and i don’t know why relievers should be graded particularly different than other relievers/players.
Guys who throw exculsively in the 9th inning in late-and-close situations certainly should be, IMO.
1) this is the main reason; in 200 IP or whatever, your average starting pitcher is going to be throwing a LOT of innings in pretty unimportant situations. If the team’s 5 runs up, or 5 runs behind, whatever he does is pretty unimportant. A closer is always guaranteed to be pitching when his stats really matter. I suspect a typical SP throws maybe 20-30% of his innings in situations that really just don’t matter at all.
2) A closer (or other late-inning reliever), especially in the NL, typically faces significantly better hitters than a starting pitcher does. The starter gets 2-3 “free” outs per start against the opposing starting pitcher, and is unlikely to face a lot of pinch-hitters who are selected to be especially good at facing him (e.g. taking advantage of platoon splits, which generally happens in the latter innings).
3) not sure I buy into this, but I suspect most pitchers do, which is probably psychologically important: the pressure of throwing the 9th inning and being “the guy” is pretty big. Everything else being equal, I think someone who succeeds in that environment may need different psychological tools than someone who starts or throws middle relief.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
Also
You’re not replacing Franklin, you’re replacing the worst RHP in the Cardinal bullpen, then shifting Franklin down to the setup role, and everyone else down a spot as well. By chaining, Valverde might not only be worth a half win more in that closer’s role, his presence alone might be worth a half win more in each successive bullpen spot..
You can’t just compare reliever to reliever like you do with players — you have to compare the impact of that reliever on the rest of the bullpen, because adding a great closer at the back end improves the bullpen overall via chaining. This same effect could be had by adding someone like Calero, Springer, or Dotel to a lesser extent. Calero would be my choice out of any of these guys as he likely will cost next to nothing and doesn’t require a draft pick to acquire, but it’s not like Valverde is a horrible option.
So when I say “cherry-picking” I mean it — you’re using the one stat that makes Franklin look as valuable as Valverde. Everything else is going to value Valverde higher.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
no
i’m using the only stat that kind of accurately compares their total value to the team. 19.5 k/9 over 60 innings just doesn’t add up to that much.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
history
doesn’t have to repeat
higher represents more opportunity
no way a year of vv is worth a #25, not to mention killing off all remaining salary flexibiity
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
yeah best case scenario
is that he’s a win better than franklin? gimme a #25 overall pick
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 13, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
why? that's a weird move, to bid on a closer, much less a type a.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
Two Headed Closer Monster...
…once replaces the udder when they get tired/ineffective. Werks fer me.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Valverde and Motte
with Franklin as setup
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm so torn!
He’s a definite upgrade at closer (I’m really worried about Franklin in 2010)… but our pick!
Also, I thought we hated Tim Brown now.
seems like our money is better spent elsewhere and our pick is independently valuable.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
I'm REALLY worried about Franklin.
by Mister Eff on Jan 13, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am more worried about our long term goals
With so much money diverted to Holliday we need to rebuild our farm system.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
you could pick up arredondo or dotel or springer or calero for less money and no pick.
i wasn’t on board with picking up wagner, but at least he was really head and shoulders over the competition. if you’re going to blow a pick on a reliever, he’s one you’d do it for. not somebody who’s marginally better than kevin gregg (valverde’s projected RAR – 7; gregg – 4).
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
Isn't Arredondo out for the year?
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
sorry, you're right. tj surgery and out for 2010.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
Just checking
Wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy. Still like Kiko and Springer as options for the bullpen (mostly Kiko).
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
there is no reason why the Cards shouldn't sign SMOLTZY, Springer & Kiko
not one good reason
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Especially since they have the cheat code for unlimited money
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
by mojowo11 on Jan 13, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hold down shift and T
When the text box appears, type DEWALLET and hit enter.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
was that code online? i've been looking for it forever
in all 6nish, they could do that for less than $7-$8 Mil
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
not if smoltzy wants >$5m, which seems possible
I think both Springer and Calero could cost $1-3m. I’d be surprised if both cost as little as 1. Calero’s really worth at least 3, and Springer probably 2, in the current market.
If we could get Smoltz + one of them I’d be overjoyed.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
springer is listed on baseball projection at 5 RAR.
bill james has him at 3.87 and chone at 3.98 for FIP; valverde has a projected 3.43 and 3.87 FIP by the respective projections.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
sorry, i gave you springers. franklin gets a projected 4.11 FIP from chone and a hideous 4.75 FIP from Bill James.
barf.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
"closer" is a bullshit concept.
the only reason valverde is a closer and kiko calero isn’t is because somebody let valverde pitch the ninth inning. that’s like saying that matt kemp isn’t a slugger because joe torre made him hit 8th.
maybe tony wouldn’t use springer that way. i don’t know. tony doesn’t have a thing to complain about right now, though. i’m really tired of the club trying to put together a team tony likes rather than the best one possible.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
Matt Kemp is dating Rihanna
Things turned out okay for him.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Only a wizard could pull such sorcery
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think the dodgers are keeping him, somehow.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Sign me up for wizard school, then
I hope I’m a Hufflepuff.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
eh, she's damaged goods now. no thanks
and i’m not talking about what her assclown bf did to her so don’t get your panties in a bunch folks. take a look at her now & then go look at her when she first broke in. it’s two totally different girls
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
yeah
she isnt a piece of meat….f’in gdm…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
yeah ... beef ages well
Why Rihanna doesn’t
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
i didn't say she was, stop twisting my words
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
right, she's a celebrity
even less worthy of being dignified
not that i don’t treat pieces of meat well. i do
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Personally
I think she’s much more attractive now than back when she was the same old conformist pop star look. But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Who Dat?
Does she do something? I haven’t kept up with single-name celebrities these days…
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Yes, it is B.S.
But, not to our manager. I’ll never forget early last year when Reyes closed a game and I went on a five-minute rant of excitement at the bar comparing TLR to Nixon and saying that, if Nixon could go to China, TLR could do away with a designated “closer.” I was very, very wrong.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Is it really a weird move
when we name alcoholic drinks after our closer?
I wonder who the other team is?
hope not cubbies.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure if this is old news
I think a VEB’er was the person who asked this question…
* In response to a question I recently received on Twitter, the following Cardinals prospects will attend the annual Rookie Career Development Program: Bryan Anderson, Allen Craig, Jon Jay and Francisco Samuel. Thanks to friend and colleague Jonathan Mayo for the info.I recall people here saying that this is often a sign of who the big club expects to compete for a roster spot this year. That seems doubtful with Anderson, but otherwise…verrrrry interesting.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Kudos
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Here is a video of
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
I wish he’d have talked a little more about what they discussed in the program, but interesting nonetheless.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
he'd tell you, but they'd have to kill you
then the van drives away
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I tried to warn them, Flim
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I was curious to see if the Cardinals would possibly send
Tyler Henley. He was the only Cardinal outside of Jon Jay to have decent Winter League stats.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
ALLEN CRAIG
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
who?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i weep for him every night

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Allen Craig Craig Allen Allen Allen Craig Allen....Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
Eet hurts my widdle head…
:=8(
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Creepy...
While throwing my trash out this morning, I noticed a box in my dumpster with my wife’s maiden name on it and our old apartment address. I read the shipping zip code on it and ran that through my g-mail, and sure enough it’s the box of an old nintendo I bought on ebay in 2007.
I threw that box away when we moved into our house in May of 2008.
Which means one of my neighbors took it out of our dumpster then and is just now throwing it away again.
going green *is* creepy.
also, I take a knife to all our junk mail with addresses and names on them.
mostly for the knifework.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and we promise to tie up all the confusing loose ends
on next week’s thread
by brackenthebox on Jan 13, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Before or after the spider bit your taint?
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Jan 13, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So if Joel's asking price is actually in the 2-year/$15 million range
Would it make sense for us to spend our remaining budget on him? Or would that leave too many other holes?
Frankly, I wouldn’t mind having our little Cy Trio back, and with Penny and Lohse, that would be a pretty solid 1-5…Garcia would get another year to develop while also playing the part of 6th starter in the likely case that someone goes down due to injury.
Thoughts?
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
i'd rather spend on him than valverde
would be hard to find a better 1-5 in the league, and i also think you could get him to sign for a little less too. he said he would like to come back here and honestly if you could get 13-14 from the cards, wouldn’t your take it over 15-16 from the mets?
Actually i would rather have smoltz and a bench bat for 1 year than jo-el for 2 or 3.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
considering that we lose an arb pick if we sign joel
a 13-14 contract costs us about that same as 15-16 costs the mets
by brackenthebox on Jan 13, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Type B compensation picks are worth $2M?
I don’t think it’s that high….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
from Erik
• Picks 1 though 5 on average gave their teams $32M of production.
• Picks 6 through 10, $22.4M
• 11-15, $17.6M
• 16-20, $18.9M
• 21-30 $6.6M
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
So picks 30-55 (generally)
are all valued at $2M? I don’t think so.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Depends on where the picks fall,
but I could see their value being $2MM.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm gonna guess
that his pick will be worse less than $500,000 by value. It’s going to be near the back of the supplemental picks, and the value is going to fall of considerably after pick 35.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
why 35?
where did this seemingly arbitrary number come from?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
because that was the first number that came in his head
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Because its a sandwich pick, I'd imagine.
Pinata is not rated as the top Type B, I suspect, so we wouldn’t get one of the top supplemental picks. Or, that’s how I interpreted it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Supplemental picks
are doled out by the ranking of the player in the Elias list. Pineiro won’t be the top type B, and since Type A’s also require a supplemental pick, the pick for him is going to be quite a ways down in the draft.
Also, if the 30th pick is worth $6.6M (which I’m dubious on, because there’s quite a difference in talent between 21 and 30), that means 30-35 will be worth less than that (probably $2M or so), and after that it’s going to drop off very quickly in terms of value because you’re going to see more high-upside picks of players who have injury histories and players who’ve dropped out of the first round for significant reasons. You’re going to see more busts here than you will in the top of the first round, because it’s essentially a free pick that you’re getting as compensation, without having to give up any other pick in the draft.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
to the first paragraph,
okay?
to the rest, i don’t see any reason that quality of picks is going to decline at a suddenly much faster rate between 30 and 60 as between 1 and 30
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Why?
There’s a $12M dropoff between picks 19 and picks 21, so what makes you think it’s going to decline slower?
Explain yourself.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
where did i say it would decline slower!
i said there is no reason to think there would be a rapid increase in decline of quality.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 14, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, you did
i don’t see any reason that quality of picks is going to decline at a suddenly much faster rate between 30 and 60 as between 1 and 30
You’re either saying it declines at a lesser rate than the picks before it, or you totally misunderstood what I was saying.
I worked it out…if it declines at the same rate as the previous set of picks, my $500,000 quote is about spot on for picks from 45-50. I think it will actually decline at a faster rate overall because of the number of high-upside high school guys who have issues that knocked them out of the first round that get drafted in the 30-50 picks that are generally supplemental choices. Those players tend to burn out at a higher rate but are worth a risk at that point in the draft because they cost less to sign the later they are taken.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
are you actually reading what you're posting
that quote does not say that i think the quality of picks will decline slower. it says that i don’t think they will decline faster.
you’re falling into old habits and i don’t particularly feel like defending the strawmen you set up
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I worked it out…if it declines at the same rate as the previous set of picks, my $500,000 quote is about spot on for picks from 45-50. I think it will actually decline at a faster rate overall because of the number of high-upside high school guys who have issues that knocked them out of the first round that get drafted in the 30-50 picks that are generally supplemental choices. Those players tend to burn out at a higher rate but are worth a risk at that point in the draft because they cost less to sign the later they are taken.
and i don’t have a problem with this. $500,000 seems reasonable enough to me. know what doesn’t sound reasonable?
the value is going to fall of considerably after pick 35
the theory that the rate of decline rapidly increases after pick number 35
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
that's just a guess, though
I get the feeling that picks 30-50 actually lose their value at a slower rate than those in the top 20 or so. Again, though, that’s kind of a guess.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
See above
It drops off $12M or so from 15-19 to 21-30. So why wouldn’t it continue to drop off on a steep curve for the reasons I voiced above?
I’d like to see an analysis of this but I can’t find one.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Well, I agree that the difference between the top 20 and the picks 20+ is steep
and for me, that’s kinda clear in the sort of players you can get – we got Wallace in the top 20, and a lot of the players in the teens are guys that were legit top-10 talents who fell that far due to signability concerns (e.g. Shelby Miller at 18). I think most of those guys are off the board in the 20s. Therefore, the big drop-off in talent occurs at that point, and then it’s on a fairly gentle downward slope from 20 onwards.
I just feel there’s a bigger difference between the types of guys who go in the teens and in the late-20s than there is in the types of guys who go in the late 20s and the late 30s.
Like I say, both sides of this argument are just opinion, in the absence of a more detailed analysis, it’d have to stay that way. I’d be interested to see a scatter plot of the WAR/value put up by each individual pick in the draft and try to draw a curve through it, see what sort of distribution best fits. I guess it’d be very noisy, though.
In any case, you argue above that the drop-off from the teens to the 20s is similar in precipitousness to the drop-off from the 20s to the 30s. Even if that is the case, the drop off from the teens to the 20s is about a 60% reduction in value. If that holds for the 20s to the 30s/40s (and I think Pinata was near the top of the pitching type Bs, so a pick at around 40-odd is probably what we’re expecting), the average value will indeed be around the $2m region, not the $500k you suggested.
For the average value in the sandwich rounds to fall to $500k, you’d have to have a MUCH greater fall-off of talent from the ~20s to the ~30s/40s than we see from the teens to the 20s. I’d struggle to think of a rational argument as to why this would happen. It really only takes one sandwich pick per year to turn into a star, or a couple of guys to become league average types, for a pick in that region to exceed $1m in average value.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
so pics 11-15 are less valuable than pics 16-20?
this fail the smell test for anyone else?
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 13, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Could be signability/cost differentials causing that.
Anyway it’s not a very large discrepancy.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
all it needs is a couple of absolute superstars to be drafted in the 16-20 range
from what I recall, this sample only takes in a couple of years of the draft. There’s going to be pretty big error bars, and it only takes a couple of outliers in the 16-20 range to really bump up the average value. If it’s a 5-year sample, that 16-20 pick range only represents 25 players.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
ok, i know what these values represent, but
i don’t think that is the right way to look t it. it is an opportunity that may average out at $X, but there are probabilities involved that cannot be replicated and are really hard to assign hard dollar values to. if you could pay 2-3m for the opportunity to draft the 25th best amateur player, you would do it, and probably more. the dollar logic says you would have to draft 15 players to get to where chapman is today. i think that it is unlikely to require that many attempts.
ps—we’ve done some pretty poor early round drafting over the years
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
I think they are probably not adjusted for signing bonuses, however
if you’re paying 2-3m for the 25th pick and THEN also paying him $3m in signing bonuses, the amount you give up is somewhat more than just the “value” of the pick.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
I'd take him, but that would have him earning the same as in 2009.
I know the market is different, but Joel was a far superior version of himself last season than in previous contract years. I’d be surprised if he resigned with the Cardinals for the same amount.
Now with extra feisty!
i don't think jo-el is interested
has there even been confirmed dialogue between him (or his agent) and the team?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 13, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I remember reading that he was interested in returning to the Cardinals
But since he actually hit free agency, I haven’t heard anything about discussions between the Cards and his agent. Then again, Penny snuck up on me, so that doesn’t necessarily mean nothing is happening.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
this is true
but as a former cardinals, it seems as if there would have been some sort of murmurings by now if he was interested in re-upping with the team.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 13, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Can't blame him for not wanting to be part of the re-up gang
All he wants to do is ride around shining while he can afford it
I just responded
very belatedly to VEP’s post the other day about the 2010 salary level, and accompanying WAR, and asked a similar question, amongst others. In short, if our 2010 salary level is at about $90m, and if management/ownership was willing to go to $110m (I remember this was the figure being mentioned earlier), why not take Joel with the $20m remaining, plus Dotel or similar person, plus LH bench guy? Or, does management figure 90 wins is enough, be efficient and economize, no need to spend more $ for above WAR guys, and pad the bottom line next year? Also, winning the central division is not winning all of the marbles, how does that factor into decisions on how much to spend, or does anyone except the fans care?
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 13, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think the assumption is
that management ISN’T prepared to go to that payroll level. A lot of the estimates I’ve seen don’t have the Cards making a huge profit, year-on-year, so an extra $12m or so of payroll above what we paid in 2009 (especially as we only got one home playoff game to boost revenues, the absolute worst-case scenario when we made the post-season) might be a stretch.
Also, there’s the 2011 issue – if we bump payroll to $110m now, and we’re stuck with Pineiro, all our current pitchers (sans Penny) and pretty much all our position players, plus possibly a second year on Dotel, it makes it hard to afford an extra $10m per year (or whatever) to pay Pujols. I suspect any payroll increases will be pretty solidly tied to extending Albert, and personally I’ve got no problem with that.
Also, winning the central division is not winning all of the marbles, how does that factor into decisions on how much to spend, or does anyone except the fans care?
I’d imagine it probably doesn’t factor MUCH into the pre-season decisions. At best we’re maybe only a 60% shot to make the post-season next year (I imagine most estimates would be lower, actually), so 40% of the time the playoff roster doesn’t matter anyhow. Having a good bullpen/closer correlates pretty well with playoff success, so I imagine if this line of thinking enters Mo’s head, it’s maybe along the lines of “if I can add a really good closer, instead of a really good 5th starter, it’s probably more worthwhile, bearing the post-season in mind”, hence, I guess, the apparent interest in Valverde.
90 wins (or whatever we’re projected) probably isn’t enough, but it’s probably on the downslope of the curve of “how much you’re prepared to pay for a win”:

Just ignoring the x-axis scale, if this curve is equivalent (on the x-axis; horizontal) to “how many wins the team is projected to have”, and on the y-axis (vertical) to “how much is each win worth”, the absolute tip of the curve (i.e. when every win matters the most) is probably right about where your nearest rival is. That is, if we’re projected to win 85 games, and the Cubs are projected to win 85 games, every win we can gain is of an absolute maximal value. We’re probably just to the right-hand side of that (say, projected to win 90 games, with the Cubs and Brewers projected to win mid-80s) but they’re still CLOSE enough to us to make every extra win still “quite valuable”. With a projected 5-win lead, we’re only an injury (say, Carp going down for the year) away from being drawn back into the pack.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks
Felonius. I left the discussion last night and just saw this, which addresses the questions that I was asking, and I agree with what you are saying, particularly that the payroll may be more limited. Also, what you are saying at the end about each additional win at the margin being “quite valuable” is what I was getting at in suggesting that getting Joel for $10m or perhaps even less now, as spring training gets closer, might be well worth the additional 4.8 WAR that his 2009 season represented, although regression in 2010 is likely. However, even 3 wins above replacement would be good value for a (one year?) contract of $10m or less, if he was willing to accept it, would it not?
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 14, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
yep, it probably would
from what I understand, though, Joel’s right on the cusp of what we can afford next year at his very cheapest, and probably beyond it otherwise. But I agree – I think he probably represents a pretty sizeable upgrade over what we’ll have going in the #5 slot.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
While Berkman, Norris and Moehler
kicked our ass last year, they won’t do much better than last year. I imagine they’ll be in the middle or toward the bottom of the Central.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
SIGN FELIPE LOPEZ & JOHN SMOLTZ!
and by they, I mean the Stros
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
SIGN FELIPE LOPEZ & JOHN SMOLTZ!
P.S.
We are > 50 degrees here in KC. I’m so excited that I’m in the house typing on the $@#%ing computer.
(….)
60 and sunny here in San Francisco!
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
41 in K-Vegas!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 13, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
that's what we call kirksville these days
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 13, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
all of you can piss off
it’s fukcing freezing out here
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
70 and sunny in Phoenix!
Sorry gdm. I really like it here.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
That's where I'm going to retire to
Too many old people and hurricanes in Florida
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
True
I guess it doesn’t have quite the reputation Fla has. Plus, better golf courses and (as I said before) no hurricanes!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I would not live in Phoenix though during the summer
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
its not nearly as bad as you would think.
i’ve completely adapted after less than two years.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
But I like hot weather, alot
Humid sucks, but it’s not humid in Arizona. Besides, if it’s too hot to handle, don’t go outside. As a retiree, I wouldn’t ever have to go outside on 150+ degree days.
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
It's poop again!

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
As my friend who went to U of A said
Summer in Zona is basically like living in a blow dryer.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
But there's candy!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 13, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Hey
I am here in Queen Creek, escaping the BC winter! And as confessed the other day, no spring calf! No need to stay here in the summer. Love the sports choices here. My sons were here for the holidays. Saw the Suns 3 times, and Coyotes vs. Canucks (surprisingly good hockey on the Coyotes’ part). Suns and Cards on tv. I am looking forward to picking and choosing amongst the spring training loitering opportunities, plus ASU basketball, and Central Arizona College basketball and baseball. CAC has a surprisingly national calibre program. Women’s juco basketball champs last year, and perennial baseball national juco contenders.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jan 13, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
never apologize, it's my own fault i'm in frozen hell
btw, have you ever been to los taquitos grill?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I don't think so
But there are 2,343,678,498,378 Mexican places in Phoenix, so you never know.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
it was on the food network so i thought it might be a popular joint
and the family who runs it are really hot women, so that’s mainly why i remembered the place
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
25!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
This division has two 1/2 's
top cards, cubs, brewers
bottom reds, astros, bucs
anyone of the top 3 could win the division and it wouldn’t be a total shock.
any of the bottom 3 over .500 (well maybe the reds could) it would be a total shock.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
I disagree with this
Cincy is a very good bet to be .500 or better. They had a ton of injuries last year and finished only 6 games under .500. If they can avoid a few key injuries (Volquez, Votto, and Bruce, namely), figure out how to convince Cueto that July is really just the second April, and convince Homer Bailey that April is an early August, they’ll have a shot at 85-90 wins.
Of course, Dusty Baker is involved, so there’s a high probability that he fucks this up somehow.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
those are alot of ifs
isn’t volquez out till middle of the year with tommy john. They have a suspect bats to go with suspect pitching alot has to go right for them to be a .500 team
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
A lot went wrong for them last year and they had a Pythag of 76-86
That’s only a 5 game swing, while Votto and Bruce played on 131 and 101 games respectively.
Add to that a full year of Stubbs and Dickerson, which will improve their lineup AND their outfield defense, a full year of Rolen, who is a huge upgrade defensively and offensively, and a bounce back year from Harang, they could be in the hunt.
It’s not fair to put Cincy in the same class at Pittsburgh when they are clearly more talented.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
the problem with the natti is every year you here this is the year they turn it all around
until they actually do it, i’ll always keep them down there with the pirates. they’ve always got promise & a bunch of what if’s. and there’s always the Dusty Baker factor. you can’t count them to do anything till they actually do it
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
McCutchen
is the only guy I’d want to replace someone on my team if I’m the Reds. Maybe Ronny Cedeno, since they are lacking any kind of talent at SS.
Garret Jones over Votto? Hell no.
Cincy is heads and shoulders better than PIttsburgh in terms of talent alone, and their Pythag was NINE games better than the Pirates. I mean, seriously, they aren’t even in the same class.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
hey man i agree with you, i really do
but they always find a way to never put it together. maybe this really is their year. i’d like it to be if only so the national media won’t look down on the Cards for winning the weakest division in the NL
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
that's exactly my feelings
i keep here in this if the reds get it together blah balh. next year with a healthy volquez and harang and arroyo gone they’ll have some cash and be able to get some better end of rotation pitching
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
Their lineup looks pretty good...
Stubbs CF/LF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Rolen 3B
Dickerson LF/CF
Hanigan C
Replacement Ray SS
P
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Volquez/Owings/Chapman?
Plus they have a pretty decent bullpen as well.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
They'd better have a good bullpen
If you drop $12 million a year on Coco Cordero and then field a shitty bullpen, you end up looking like a big dummy.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Masset, Herrerra, Rhodes, and Ramirez
ahead of Cordero is pretty good. Their bullpen is probably better than ours and might be the best in the division.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Nick Masset is really under-rated.
one of the better set-up guys that nobody’s heard of.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
I was very impressed with him in his appearances against us last year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i just don't have any faith in the pitching staff of the Brewers
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
see that just seals it*
*sarcasm
In honesty they have enough bats to make up for that poor pitching staff. I didn’t say they would win the division, and i don’t even think they’ll be in the running for the wild card, but they could suprise. I won’t sleep on them.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
I don't think Bats can help you if you one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
well
i have to say this years staff will be better than last years, wolf has to help, and hawkins will help in the bull pen.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
But I can't see Old Man Hofffman keep it up
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hawkins in 2009
2.13 ERA
3.80 xFIP
3.97 FIP
5.25 tRA
Just sayin’.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
yes, but he's still a hell of a lot better than Seth McClung
I agree that Hawkins wasn’t a very good signing, but he’ll probably add 0.5-1 win over what they were trotting out last year in the pen. I think it’s better than the Lyon/Houston signing.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Where?
Dammit, I’ve been searching for Mark Mulder news everywhere and can’t find a word.
/sarcasm
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 13, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds do better than the Brewers
I’ll be shocked if it’s not the Cards or the Cubbies
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Link?
Don’t make me use Google…
Okay I caved, here’s the link.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
you can also look on fangraphs player pages
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Well I can't link to all of those
I AM ONLY ONE MAN
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
but you've got all that good mojo
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
false.
what about this?
if you link there, why would you need to link elsewhere.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
Those numbers make me proud to be an Albertofstanian.
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jan 13, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
What?
Marcel lost all credibility with me. How could you project Pujols to have a wOBA in the .420s? Okay, so maybe it was .414 back in aught-seven, but that was the Forgotten Aught, so it doesn’t really count.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Marcels typically under-shoot everything, offense-wise
I don’t think it’s a very good projection, but it’s better as a comparative system, IMO. Maybe the very simple way it’s applied and regressed doesn’t deal very well with huge outliers either (and AP is the definition of an outlier…).
I actually wonder if the .394 wOBA projection isn’t a bit bullish on Holliday, OTOH. Marcels aren’t park adjusted in any way, though, I believe. Still, he’s projected to be the 5th best hitter in baseball, behind Albert, Prince, Hanley and A-Rod. Pretty cool.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
Not really that different
Just a lot fewer PA’s. Other than that, the numbers look about the same.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
yes....
because of the lower number of PA’s. So would you rather have Matt Holliday that has 660 PA’s of .389 wOBA or the Matt Holliday that has 550 PA’s of .398 wOBA.
Sorry, I’ll take the one with 660 PA’s thanks.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Does CHONE not believe in UIBB?
Or do thy just assume Albert finally has “protection”? Or that his ~16% BB% is unsustainable?
They could look at the huge dip in walk rate during the second half of '09 and project that
to be more indicative moving forward…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you know what i hate about the stros?
it’s how the Cards always play down to their level & no win is ever easy. i don’t know why that is, but it’s really f’ing frustrating to watch. the stros don’t have any business whatsoever keeping up with them, yet every game is tight & in doubt. the Cards should blow them out of the water yet guys like wandy & brian f moehler shut the O down for 8 innings. ugh, somebody please make it stop already.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
this gives me a good idea, which has probably been already discussed/or invented
bourbon bacon
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
yeppers
a place out in seattle or portland first starting making it i think
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i must have this

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
not bacon flavored bourbon mind you
bourbon flavored bacon
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think knob creek would work well
if you can afford to use it for that
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
I was planning on doing a dry cure,
so it wouldn’t take much bourbon, just turn the cure into a paste. It may work better in a brine. I’ll have to think about this.
* is an Asshat
I don't get
my bellies till next week..20 lbs…I’m going to do 4 flavors and see which I like best.
* is an Asshat
I'm doing cajun and pepper
and now bourbon for sure. I’ll probably do maple or honey, but it will be light. I don’t like a lot of the maple bacon and sausages out there because they are so overpowering and sweet.
* is an Asshat
Bourbon Vodka
At a bar in DSM, the bartenders and cooks mixed vodka with bacon grease and made what, I suppose, is some sort of bootleg bacon vodka. I had a shot last summer and it was absolutely the most disgusting beverage I have ever tasted. This is not to condemn back-flavored bourbon, but is meant simply as a warning.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
*Bacon Vodka
It’s been a very long and busy day. If that makes any sense.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I have no idea why
but bacon flavored alcohol sounds super gross, but alcohol flavored bacon sounds amazing.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
I thought we were supposed to be done with bacon?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 14, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
damnit JD what are you doing man?!?!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Yes, please, enough bacon pseudo-"jokes"
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
That sounds like it's more of a problem with the Cardinals than the Astros
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
i blame hal mcrae
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I blame Adam kennedy
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I have long hated the Astros
for some reason, even the Cubbies don’t raise my ire as much as the ‘stros (although their success in 07 and 08 probably put them back on top of my shit list). There’s something about the ‘stros that’s just always made me really dislike them. At first I think it was mostly Brad Lidge, but now I can’t even say it’s any specific player, because I quite like some of them.
Minute Maid is a shit-hole, that might be part of it. Wade and McLane are complete idiots, that’s probably part of it, too. But yeah, I just can’t stand them Astros.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Well, the fact that most of the people on this blog
could do a much better job than that organization kind of says something….
Man, what I could do with Minaya’s budget…
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
speaking of 'stros
aren’t they trying to sell the team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 13, 2010 7:16 PM EST reply actions
i'm saving my allowance
for the next few weeks to make an offer
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
Leach says the Valverde thing is bunk
Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports reported on his Twitter account on Wednesday that St. Louis was one of the clubs with a standing offer to Valverde and his agents at the Beverly Hills Sports Council. And at first blush, it makes some sense, because the Cards would love to add a pitcher who could complement Ryan Franklin at the back of their bullpen.
However, a Cardinals source said on Wednesday that an offer to Valverde would be “news to me,” and that there is “nothing to it.”
…
It would be all but impossible to sign Valverde and address any of the other needs, and starting depth appears to be a more pressing need for the Cardinals than right-handed relief.
I consider this good news. We need to stock the system with cheap talent for the next seven or eight years of Pujolliday.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Great news.
Thanks for passing it along. We should have known better. Mo is more intelligent than that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
uh
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
OT: Check out my blog
I don’t mean to be selfish, but I would be happy if you would. I welcome all comments and constructive criticism. I know you guys know what you’re talking about. I have faith in you.
It’s just getting off the ground, and will be better in time, but here ’tis so far.
Check out my sports blog!
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
SIGN FELIPE LOPEZ & JOHN SMOLTZ!
I think there's a broken link on the Lane Kiffin thing
otherwise, it’s looking nice. I like the layout.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
beltran is out for another three months
Mets center fielder Carlos Beltran has undergone microfracture knee surgery, without permission from the club, a source tells the New York Post’s Joel Sherman
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/7732469105
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/carlos-beltran-undergoes-knee-surgery.html
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
The Mets sadden me.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 13, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
in other news
rick ankiel’s job market just widened
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 13, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WOO HOO!!!!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
yeah, but no one will be watching this year
if it’s a one-year deal, he might disappear into the rest of the general malaise.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
new york will suck
but people will be watching. a lot of people. which is not a good environment for a fragile psyche.
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
i'd be more concerned with the availability of off-field distractions
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
That would be an epic falling apart.
The mean side of me (which, let’s be honest, is most of me) wants him to go there as retribution for giving up pitching.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
The Mets are maintaining that Carlos Beltran’s right knee surgery was done without their blessing and may pursue some form of action.
It’s possible (but unlikely) the Mets could move to void Beltran’s entire contract. More than likely, they’ll try to recoup partial monetary loss, perhaps in returned salary for the time he will be out. However, these types of suits against a player rarely succeed, never mind win. Beltran is expected to be out no less than 12 weeks with the injury
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 13, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
if they void his deal, but bushleague
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
and i hope the Cards pick him up
damn SBN
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'd go for the throat...
if I were the Mets. 2 years and $36 million left on the contract… Looks like he’ll miss a minimum of 25% of that. He’s not going to contribute to that team again.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
if he can be cut, as per the contract
I’d probably do it if I were them. A healthy beltran is worth that deal, though, so it’s probably not worth the pain/legal wrangling/bad publicity that would inevitably ensue.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Hopefully he actually returns before the season starts
and doesn’t get Glaused
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
well
he return to baseball activities in 12 weeks. that’s mid april. then he goes to extended spring and probably a MiL rehab after that. i’m guessing he’ll be back around the AS break
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jan 13, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
He might be completely finished...
his knee was getting worse as the offseason progressed. That’s never a good sign. Now he’s dabbling in some kind of secret micro-fracture surgery? That’s a frequent career ender for a lot of NBA guys. Amare Stoudamire had it and came back a couple years later looking like an old man.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Maybe...
No idea what this does to his hitting. I don’t even know which leg it is. He’s got a no-trade clause and an untradeable two years and $37 mill left on his contract. They say center can actually be easier than the corners because you rarely have to stop quickly. But the Mets said that he has osteoarthritis and he wasn’t able to do “pre-spring training condtioning.”
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Amar'e is probably the one guy who was able to recover from it
The other two high profile cases, Greg Oden and Tracy McGrady, haven’t been the same players since the operation.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Didn't that happen to Bill Russell as well?
Can’t remember
Still, I don’t watch the NBA much (College Basketball is better imo), but I hope Oden does well. At least so the Blazers (My favorite team for a few reasons) can feel better about not grabbing Durant. They would probably be at least in the Finals by now with him.
Never liked McGrady, and he may have just sabotaged his last chance at a big deal.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
So, I saw something I liked in
this article from Goold.
McGwire described how ready he is now to get to spring training and begin working with the Cardinals hitters. He has been reviewing video of some of the hitters, and he’s been preparing some ways to get his message across. During the session Wednesday with Schumaker and Ryan, he stressed what he usually stresses: Direct line to the pitch. Consistent swing mechanics (even when there is no intent to swing at, say, a ball out of the strike zone). And, especially with Ryan, keeping the forearm and bat in a right angle longer and through the ball.
I already like him more than McRae.
Now with extra feisty!
Boog made me laugh.
"What’s happening?" the shortstop said. "What have you been up to?"
"Oh," McGwire said, "not much."
* is an Asshat
Boooooooooog.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
I'm liking this decision more and more everyday.
I am so excited for this season.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 13, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Not that I didn't like it at first.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 13, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Shoe Sale
Love My Shoes is have a crazy shoe sale
ST50CP apply that to take 50% off
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 13, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
seriously?
flim….seriously?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
He's just trying to help me out!
Thanks flim.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 14, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
and i reserve full right to give him crap for it.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
AHHHHHH!
They keep not having my size!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 14, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
And the coupon code expired on the 11th of 2009.
:(
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 14, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I mean 2010.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 14, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
I actually appreciate this, somehow
The GF promised me when she got a job she’d get a sexy pair of heels to celebrate. I will pass this along.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
i hate girls in heels
and i am quite tall. Boots with heels, yeah I can go with that, but stilletto shoes I’m just not keen on at all. I think quite a few guys feel this way, actually. My GF insists on wearing them out even though they’re not practical and I don’t really like them. Drives me mad.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't mind them when I was dating
because they were a good excuse for a footrub later on, which leads to other things, as Marcellus Wallace would tell you I’m sure….
Now that I’m married? Hate ‘em, but my wife doesn’t wear them much at all anymore, thank goodness.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I love heels for my own sake.
I don’t really care what boys think. I figure if a boy can’t stand me wearing heels all the time we aren’t going to work and that’s his problem.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You go girl!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Jan 14, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
surprise of 2010 season.
boog slugs 15 dingers.
if you don't know what is wrong with me, then you don't know what you've missed. - macmanus
then turns right around and jacks 15 dongs.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know which of those descriptions is dirtier.
I think I’m gonna go with “jacks 15 dongs”.
by arch support on Jan 14, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
the shorts, haha
new gloves, too? Skip best get his routine down.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
true
just not used to seeing anyone wearing anything louder than Boog’s gear
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
you know what they say, when at the beach
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
must be an in season thing
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
"The other day," Schumaker said of their batting practice session Sunday, "he hit 10 out of the park in a row, I swear. He still has that power."
If that’s true, its pretty impressive… I wonder how he would do against real pitching…
by purple_haze on Jan 14, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
I bet the movement of hair around Boog's face is a suitable offseason disguise.
Until he speaks. Or… okay, it would last about 20 seconds.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
also, it's hilarious that I know
that’s Boog without even reading the caption
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
who else would that be?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Skip is also present
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
he doesn't hit righty though
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
yeah
backing up there, what I meant is you can’t see his face in that shot.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
i know BOOG when i see him as well
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I forgot how much
Cardinal Mark McGwire meant to me until I looked at those pictures. I feel like a kid again.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
i just wasted 20 minutes of my life reading the comments below that article
can someone explain to me why i did that?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
make yourself useful
I think I know what Boog’s shirt says, but I can’t be totally sure. link link
and don’t look at Skip’s shorts.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
i'm pretty sure it says "so fresh so clean"
and jared’s shorts look like swimming trunks.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
oh, jared.
that’s what I thought, thanks. nice little shot of irony, there, Boog.
I’ll still be (irrationally) mad if his pre-swing routine changes, though.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
yes
just like i was irrationally mad about holliday changing his number.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
wasn't it rational
because you’d bought a #15 jersey?
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
yeah...
but i was irrationally actually pissed about it.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
but you had a reason for it
so wouldn’t that make it “rational”? That’s what I’m saying. Nvm.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
Who was asking when Skip had hair?
He appears to have hair now. Unless that’s someone else.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 14, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Oh spants mentioned this.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jan 14, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
FYI the blogzone has a few more details than the article
It’s slightly more mancrushy on Boog, as is Goold’s wont.
Yeah I said it. wont.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
'wont' should really make a comeback
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Alas, in this modern grammar-deprived age
Wont will be too often mistaken for won’t.
by purple_haze on Jan 14, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
alack.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jan 14, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
CHONE has Boog regressing on offense (by about 6 runs)
and actually improving on defense. Don’t think either of those will happen though… it seems like once he got adjusted to ML pitching he ceased to be an offensive liability and its hard to believe the defense could get any better.
by purple_haze on Jan 14, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
I can definitely see his offense regressing
fwiw. I still think it’s on very shaky ground. He was in the zone for quite a lot of last year, but he doesn’t have great discipline, power or contact skills to fall back on if it’s not all working out. I think his D is as good as advertised, but I could see him dropping back to slightly below-average overall due to a regression with the bat. I’m not confident in another year of .350 OBP, and I’ll be pleasantly surprised if he does that again.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 14, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
OT (sorta): Don't know if anyone else has seen Christine Brennan's post about Big Mac
You can tell from the title how she feels about the subject.
Cheating Mark McGwire gets a pass from Bud Selig
Not sure I’ve ever read her stuff, so don’t know how to treat her rant. Let’s just say, she has some valid points, but I don’t wholly agree with her view.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 14, 2010 12:29 AM EST reply actions
what a dumb _________
Couldn’t make it past the first sentence or two: “perpetrating a great fraud on a nation.” It’s baseball. How do people still not get this. It’s the hitting of a ball with a bat. People with oversized leather mitts catch the ball and toss it to people wearing tight-fitting clown pants sans suspenders, and its all cheered on by a probable alcoholic in a bird suit.
Seriously it is a game
We don’t hold our politicians to the same fire we even hold Mark McGwire. Honestly this kind of stuff just makes me feel sick to my stomach. It just feels so fake.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 14, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
While I don't agree with most of what she says
and, yes, it is just a game…however, McGwire did make a ton of money, getting paid at least partially from us, the fans. Though I was never a big Big Mac fan (having left St. Louis many, many years ago), I was certainly happy to have him on the team I’ve rooted for all my 50+ years of life. My daughter sported a McGwire jersey as a youngster, only because he was one of the few bright spots on those late 90’s teams. Once the allegations about his steroid use started to show up in the papers and on the boob- and intertubes, I was initially unbelieving, then outraged, but finally, resigned to the liklihood that he had, in fact, used them. I’ve distanced myself emotionally from Mr. Mac quite some time ago, even before his appearance before Congress. I’m glad that he’s come clean, I don’t agree with Ms. Brennan that he hemmed and hawed. But I agree that, aside from being persona non grata for the last 5 years or so, he has received what amounts to less than a slap on the wrist from the Commish. Of course, we all know what a toady Selig is, so it’s not exactly unexpected. It just makes me wonder what would have happened if someone else, say Fay Vincent Mark II, were running baseball.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 14, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
See, for me
I was 10 years old and had few interests and cares outside of my own little world. But the excitement over Big Mac and the fact that he represented my home and city to the rest of the country was so cool.
I would watch him hit home runs on Channel 5 highlight reels and his dingers became my concept of a home run. Anything less than a McGwiresque home run was puny and cheap. I now look back and realize that those homers (like the one he socked where they put a band-aid up on the P-D ad in center at the spot it hit… HFS ©) were a treat to watch and so I revere Big Mac for the power he had. I repeat, it was a treat to watch him. And I just can’t wrap my head around these people that try to cast him down. He kicked ass. Don’t you remember? Don’t act like you weren’t there. Don’t act like your response to those home runs was to look at the guy next to you and say “Ya, it’s not that great because he’s on steroids” and not “Whoa”. Or, maybe it was. In which case my 10 year old self would feel sorry for your sad, cynical life and continue to cheer him on. In fact, my current self would, too.
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
I am assuming you're not 10 years old anymore.
I’m just figuring…. that being math, and all.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
All I can say is nothing.
This is among the most yawn-worthy of all the articles I’ve seen on McGwire. Have you got a writing job and space to fill with vacuous, content-free moralizing? It’s your lucky day.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
all i can say is i don't give a fuck & i never did
and i don’t want to here some holier than thou assclown reporter tell me i should be outraged. mind your own damn business & stop telling everyone how to live their life already. 6ly press, STFU
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'm the opposite-
I generally like to hear the takes of reporters on the situation, when they involve actual reporting or actual thought. The Outside the Lines discussion on McGwire kind of summed up my thoughts and did it without this flair of patronizing moraltude (that’s right, I invented a word to describe this condescending anti-journalism).
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Jan 14, 2010 5:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Y2S, can moraltude go into the glossary?
I am sure it is going to be used A LOT between now and ST
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
the unicorns seem to prevail over it
and again, it’s based on usage, not me.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
ugh
i just can’t stand any holier-than-thou journalist trying to turn people who have probably already made up their minds about the situation (Goose Gossage has – who the eff cares?) against one of my favorite cardinals.
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
btw
where was the link to the occasion mac did say “i never took steroids” prior to this whole thing this week?
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
it was in strauss's column or one of the other 15 PD articles about him the other day
apparently his lawyers told him to say that too
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
why i was reading yahoo blog comments, i don't know but
this one made me lol:
7. Posted by J G Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:13 pm EST
LaRussa knew, LaRussa knows, LaRussa pushed steroid use, and LaRussa continues to push steroid use. The one guy who stood up to him and refused to use steroids got run out of town (Rolen).
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
Nice to see
people are still posting with wreckless abandon. Makes me warm and fuzzy inside…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Jan 14, 2010 4:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tony LaRussa has mastered the way to get around steroid testing!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
hot damn
i can’t find wherever that tgreene video was posted, but that dude has a canon. i wish he’d figure it out at the plate. that was boog-esque
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
wrong thread no wonder
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
tigers signed valverde
/exhale
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
man i am closing this thread
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
you did good
you are posting this for people that like living in the past
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
"You hit it good, you hit it good...."
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 15, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
I come from the future!
with a link about the Astros, as promised.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

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