What Might Otherwise Have Been
by DanUpBaby on Sep 25, 2009 6:00 AM EDT
Email
PrintI've decided this is the problem: my expectations are artificially high, but I refuse to believe they are. I did all the right things when the Cardinals started trading faberge eggs for veterans—I got overly protective of Chris Perez, of whom, as a reliever taken in the draft, I was not originally overly fond, and then I freaked out for no fewer than three months whenever the topic of trading for Matt Holliday came up. But put them in the lineup—well, it wouldn't be baseball if I couldn't get a little carried away. So when Bud Norris, who is not even a soft-tosser, shows the Brian Moehler hoodoo, it's easy for me to forget entirely the game before that. So a lot of it is just generalized angst, baseball fibromyalgia.
Localized point of concern: Ryan Ludwick. Remember this? In Price is Right parlance, we've all gone over—our lowest Thudwick OPS was .840, which is 57 points too high. Somebody should have gone $1.
In our defense, we weren't the only ones wagering that Ludwick would go all Dow 36,000 on the National League—even ZiPS predicted he'd maintain an OPS of .869, which is itself a hundred points off his banner 2008. You could get pretty pessimistic without assuming that 2009 would be the third-best season of his Cardinals career, but here we are at the end of the regular season and Ludwick's contributed nearly four wins fewer than he did last year. But his defense is better!
He is not the worst offender in this regard, or even the worst offender from the outfield, but his, I think, is the last case we've kept ourselves from getting hopeless about. Not only was he better than Rick Ankiel last year—not only was he not a pitcher five years ago—but he also has managed to be The Ryan Ludwick when he hasn't completely sucked. Three months are solidly above our lowest predictor; three months are significantly below his actual performance. He's been everything, it would seem, but a guy with a .783 OPS. Rick Ankiel, on the other hand... he's pretty much been below our expectations the entire time, until, by sheer force of will, he managed to revise them this far downward.
That said, his recent performance—no extra base hits in two weeks, strikeouts in (arbitrary endpoints alert) 10 of his last 27 at-bats... it's been tough to stomach. But now that Troy Glaus has played for the Cardinals in 2009, Ludwick escapes the Biggest Disaster tag.
But the amazing thing about this team is how well they've adjusted to losing so much from a 2008 club that was already kind of flawed. Forget about the acquisitions, forget, even, about Pujols—we might have been irrationally exuberant about Ryan Ludwick, but who among us was flowery enough about things to guess these guys would replace all of the production from these other guys?
2008 Losers 2009 GainersWAR 09-08 WAR 09-08Glaus -5.3 Carpenter 5.0Ludwick -3.8 Pineiro 4.4Lohse -2.5 Wainwright 3.0Ankiel -1.7 Ryan 2.8Wellemeyer -1.7 Franklin 1.415.0 16.6
These Cardinals could very easily have been crippled by what they lost—to get two wins from your second and third most valuable players the year before is a disaster, an nine game swing. To make matters worse, they basically lose their second and third most effective starting pitchers. I feel a Yogi-ism coming on—
YOGI: You know, for a team that's pretty much the same, these guys are really different.
AL: You know, Yogi, they really are.
DAN: Aflac??
Having begun the year by writing player capsules for the Maple Street Annual I've got a weird frame of reference for all this, because again and again I'm struck by how wrong I was. Look down the list of WAR losers; rest assured that I proclaimed each of them vital to the Cardinals' success in 2009. (While we're at it, there is probably at least one VEB post with my name on it for each of Pineiro, Ryan, and Franklin lamenting them as dead weight on a roster full of more exciting players. I'm sorry.)
This isn't the way I'd build a team on a year to year basis, but I'll take it; the Trader Mo blow-out will rightfully be a central point of the 2009 Cardinals Commemorative DVD, but the way they managed to replace all that production from the year before is just as amazing.
441 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Ludwick's offense has fallen into quicksand
since his NL Player of the Month award in July.
I can’t figure it out. Luddy was the guy next to Albert who I thought would benefit the most from Holliday joining the team. The pressure of being the clean-up guy was off him and I figured he would start to really light it up. But the complete opposite has happened and he looks horrible at the plate, even more so when runners are on. More times than not he swings at the first pitch and misses badly. And he is either striking out or hitting ground balls that end up as double plays (see the Chicago game this past Sunday). I admit I don’t get to see many of the games…but for those who do has he changed his stance at the plate??
I dare say this though…if somehow Luddy can find his stroke in the playoffs we can go far…because when he’s hot he can carry the team as much as Albert & Holliday. Let’s just pray he gets going once the calendar turns to October.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
If Ludwicks gets it going for the playoffs....
well, wow, this team just became 1A with the Yankees. Of course, that’s a big if.
More to the point, with a season full of surprises and success, Ludwick’s and Ankiel’s season have been great disappointments. Ankiel because he turned into a pumpkin and Ludwick because he is not the “perennial all-star” many of thus thought he would/had become. Maybe it’s an off year or maybe he reverted back to his true form. I tend to side with the latter. Unfortunately, this is yet another reason why signing Holiday is dire.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
grammer alert - Not signing holiday would have dire consequences.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
If all else remains constant,
I really think Ludwick is the key to our playoff success (ok, the bullpen has to pick it up too). Even when Pujols and Holliday are having good stretches, this team is still susceptible to offensive droughts. We are really going to need that offensive jolt from a third source in the playoffs—be it Rasmus, Derosa, or Ludwick. But I really think its Ludwick that’s going to have to step up. Sometimes Albert has a good game and we still lose. Sometimes Holliday has a good game and we still lose. I admit I haven’t been able to watch many games since I moved away from STL mid-way through the season, but it just seems to me that when Ludwick has a good game, we almost always win.
please tell me you
did not move any where close to KC its a death trap
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
Death Trap
In what ways is KC a death trap? I live here, and find its strikingly similar to St. Louis (where I grew up), except for the bad baseball.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
I think he means KC-KS
My sister lives near Independence or something and makes fun of the west side.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
"Makes fun"
isn’t a good description… Laments the conditions over there is more apt.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
So is the west side basically their version of East St. Louis?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yep, complete with section 8 homes
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
My theory
is that each city decided Missouri was kind of lame and started colonies in the neighboring states, hoping to eventually relocate entirely. But then the colonies didn’t do so hot, so both cities decided they’d stay in Missouri after all. At least they are on the edges and not stuck in the middle of the state.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Its not as bad as East St. Louis
but yes, it can get rough. But overall I was talking about the metro areas as a whole. The same things are available in both areas. In fact a good portion of the KS side is wonderful.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
Arnold?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I thought
that was Adair county?
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
Please don't compare Luddy's season with Ankiel's
Ankiel’s season has been orders of magnitude more dissappointing to the point where my blood starts to boil every time I see is name in the starting lineup. Expecting Ludwick to repeat last season was setting yourself up for dissappointment.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
of course he swings at the first pitch
he’s not a little leaguer and states numerous times he looks for his pitch regardless of count of situation. In his monster year he OPS’d on the 1st pitch 1.390
His swing data shows he let 244 go for balls, let 148 go for called strikes, and swung at 179:
called balls 244
called strikes 148
swinging strikes 21
fouls 75
outs 50
1b 8
2b 10
3b 2
hr 13
I’m still looking for 2009 pitch f/x swing data though…
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Maybe it's just me
but the times I have seen him over the past several weeks he’s just up there hacking at the first pitch and not “looking for his pitch” Like I said I don’t get to see many games…I’m just going by the few I have seen. His main problem right now is when runners are on it seems. He doesn’t seem like he is seeing the ball well at all. It wasn’t a problem earlier in the year….but it’s become a rather stark slump for Luddy as of late.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I don't mean to knitpick,
but Ludwick has 5 GIDP this year, which is less than his 8 last season. That’s very low, especially with over 500 PAs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well played.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I really need to stop posting
since I never do my homework before I do. Oh well at least it’s Friday :)
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
no no no! don't stop!
i haven’t done homework since 96! if you stop posting, they’ll make me stop.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
...what's homework?
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
come on
don’t bother posting if you haven’t taken the time to look up these kinds of things
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=homework
by brackenthebox on Sep 25, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Well played. LMGTFY is one of the best websites of all time.
OF ALL TIME.
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
alt caption
Bud Norris realizes he sold his soul to win one lousy game and he wants a redo the deal to include at least one bag of cheesy poofs and maybe some nachos.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Yeah, I want some Cheesy Poofs!
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
I love Cheesy Poofs, you love Cheesy Poofs
If we didn’t eat Cheesy Poofs, we’d be lame!
I’m talkin’ Night Court in its fourth season laaaaaaame….
by Andyfantastic on Sep 25, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Cheesy Poofs FTW
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
Sold his soul to own the Cardinals, you mean
2 games, 13 IP, 8 H, 0 R.
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
Between, Bud, Wandy, and Moehler...
How did we ever beat the Astros this year? Oh that’s right, because we knock the shit out of ROY OSWALT. Stupid baseball.
V, b.
Hey, if we have to choose
between beating good pitchers and beating bad ones, I choose beating good. The good ones are usually the ones who pitch in the postseason.
but then what if a good pitcher becomes sucky?
we’re screwed!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
irrationally exuberant
I c wat u did thar
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
does no one like Ryan Ludwick in the man stew?
Luggage aside, in this last series alone he went an awfully long time with the seat of his pants torn out; jokingly (?!) agreed with Al (??!) about punching TLR; and then Albert left him hanging on a post-run high-five.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I've thought that too.
Maybe Ludwick is a real jerk? He seems like a nice dude, but you never know. He doesn’t seem to gel with the rest of the team as much as everybody else. If I wasn’t getting along with my teamates, I think I’d struggle at the plate too.
by cloistermaximus on Sep 25, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
he always struck me as having a wry sense of humor
understated guy. his body language just seems very tentative. doesn’t seem like the douchey sort, really.
i’m starting to suspect his best friend is Chris Duncan or something.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
offday nexdef'd
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/4354134353
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Not suprising
If the Cards seriously want to make a move to resign Matt Holliday, they can only do so in the context of knowing where the stand on a long term deal with Pujols. Signing Albert to an extension removes the uncertainty.
(a thread in which people are *still* commenting)
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Cue Bueller
You’re still here? Go home. Go!
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
Well,
it’s Heyman. But, it makes sense. Get it done now and give him a big raise once Carp’s contract comes off the books.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Move Luddy up to 2nd
Suggested lineup:
Skip
Ludwick
Pujols
Holliday
DeRosa
Rasmus
Molina
Ryan
Carp
See if Ludwick can regain his comfort at the plate batting in front of Pujols. We might have racked up a good number of wins this season without him consistently performing well, but he will be crucial next month.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Molina bumped up, with the last three:
Rasmus, Carp, Ryan
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
That's a good idea
I haven’t really been digging the whole “both our lefties are back to back” thing with Rasmus/Schumaker to begin with, it makes more sense to split them up.
Not afraid to nitpick
I heart this idea
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i've been saying move Luddy to the 2 hole for months
of course, no one ever listens to me
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Good read.
I think Joe Posnanski is great and posts like this one are a big reason why. It’s entitled, “What Our Eyes See,” and analyzes HOFer Jim Rice’s blog post on Zach Greinke after Rice watched Greinke’s 6-inning, 2-hit, 0-run effort versus Boston which left Rice less than gushing about Greinke’s abilities as a pitcher. I think reading this will cause a bit of self-reflection in the way that we sometimes argue a player’s merits here, or personnel choices by Mo & Co.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I read that last night and got strange looks for how much I was cracking up.
Jim Rice is… something special.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
there is something deeply poetic about this quote
“Slider away,” Rick Ankiel pleaded. “Slider away and you have him.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Maybe we should fix it
“there is something deeply poetic psychoanalytic about this quote”
There, all better.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Off topic
Anyone know of a good place to watch Cards games in DC? I normally watch at my buddy’s place as he has MLB package but he’s out of town.
Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.
almost all sports bars now-a-days have the MLB packages.
BWW does, Hooters as well.
There are two BWW in the DC area www.buffalowildwings.com and a handful of hooters www.hooters.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
more than a handful is too much.
"The almighty tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he’s pretty sure you’re screwed" Albert to opposing pitchers.
by swmofan on Sep 25, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess it would all be relative
to the size of the hands?
"The almighty tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he’s pretty sure you’re screwed" Albert to opposing pitchers.
My buddy used to say
more than a mouthful is a waste.
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 25, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The one time I went to watch a Cards game in DC
It was in DuPont circle, I think it was Stetson’s. That’s just a block away from Brickskeller for some excellent pre/post libation, too.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
OT: Postseason tickets
anybody else waiting in the “virtual waiting room” for playoff tickets?
standing room only left!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
and some single seats, hmm.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
got one.
I gotta get another, or my family will KILL me.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
annnnd my family is going to kill me.
I passed on nosebleeds, but then I realized we could go to the game together and sit apart. dumb of me.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
when it says there aren't tickets available for 1 person
I assume that means “sold out, you m’fer.”?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
and I'm right.
Only Standing Room and single seats remain for League Championship Home Game 3
Division Series Home Game 1 and 2, and League Championship Home Game 1 and 2 are sold out.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope you're happy, Cardinals.
I’m going to be disowned over this.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
You can always buy SRO on stubhub.
"The almighty tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he’s pretty sure you’re screwed" Albert to opposing pitchers.
true
I kinda started buying without consulting anyone else’s schedules, too. so maybe, maybe we can figure it out via stubhub… without breaking anyone’s bank. maybe.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
How dare you interrupt
Yadi’s inner monologue!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Sep 25, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
it's never a monologue
see sig.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
family is highly overrated
you’re probably better off having VEB as your family now
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
VEB's parenting skills suck!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Keep talking like that
and you’ll be grounded until the Cubs win the World Series. How’s that for good parenting, you little punk ass?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
fetch my belt!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Go get me a switch
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Sep 26, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaddup
and go back to watching yer damn baby einstein videos! daddy’s gotta drink his box of wine.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Sep 25, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You can sell them on ebay as a curio...
after the Cards drop 10 in a row and the Cubs win out.
Ask me about my avatar!
Luddy has tanked in the XBH department since Holliday came on the seen
Since moving to 5th in the order he has completely stopped hitting for power. I was kinda frustrated when he was moved to 5th at the time because he had been hitting well again before that. I was hoping they would plug Holliday into the 5th spot and leave Luddy at cleanup.
I agree with the previous post and its been said around here before…..try him in the 2 hole. Couldnt hurt…at the very least its better then Ankiel and his .270ish OBP!!! (different topic but Ankiel should not get a signle start in the playoffs! hes terrible).
I really feel this is just a down year for Ludwick…something has gotten his swing out of sorts….just not swinging with authority, all singles swings the past 6 weeks. When healthy he projects to hit for more power.
Milt Thompson FTW!
Do have to come to Ludwicks defense also.....
As a run producer over all he’s done well this year. With 89 RBI’s and around a .300 average with men on base i’ll take that.
Milt Thompson FTW!
Re: Ludwick's Likeability
He played a big role in the Shaq vs. Pujols episode. It’s not like Ludwick has national appeal or is “camera friendly”, so I’m assuming Pujols asked him to be involved. Makes me think that they are somewhat tight.
body language was tentative there too; granted, edited for Shaqvision
I like Luddy a lot, in a likeable ballplayer kinda way who likes to play kickball with little kids and does fairly well pwning the FSM guys. He just seems a bit down on the dumps this year… I mean, for Ludwick. In his understated everyman way.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
remember how in the spring he said he added some muscle weight
to prove to everyone he deserved his “big” contract? and remember how awful he was because of it? yeah, i think he’s feels like he doesn’t deserve his deal & that’s clearly effected his play. his #‘s are down & i think he feels like he’s letting everyone down. i think the pressure has gotten to him.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
so he's got a case of the Lohshies?
or even a past Franklin. That does make sense.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Revisting October 2008....
Knowing what we know now, would anyone here now trade Ryan Ludwick to Colorado with a pitching prospect (just for congruity’s sake let’s say Clay Mortenson) for Matt Holliday?
Implications:
- The team has Holliday for the full year, but has Dunkiel in RF all season.
- Wallace is still our top trade chip at the deadline, allowing us to deal him for a different outfielder or keep him.
- The Duncan trade might not happen without Ludwick (I still think it would, however). For the sake of Chaos Theory that has to be considered.
- Allen Craig may have very well gotten a call up by now…
Essentially, it’s basically asking whether you’d rather have 23 year old Brett Wallace going forward or 29 year old Ryan Ludwick. I’d be interested to see how those who hated the Holliday trade in terms of value would answer this question.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
No comparison...
really. Let me ask you a question. If we had traded Ludwick to Colorado and he had posted a 280/360/500 line, would Colorado have been willing to give him up for Wallace in July? Definitely yes.
Ask me about my avatar!
Sure they would
look at the total crap they have at 3B and the large lot of good players they have in the OF! That’s a totally different question than the one that I asked.
Remember that this deal was rumored to be on the table last offseason, and none of us wanted to deal Ludwick at that time for one season of Matt Holliday - mainly because most of us thought he as a .850.900 OPS player going forward and would be fairly cheap for at least another season. He’s still a solid outfielder and has a good bat, but he’s not what we thought he was last October. At that time, a lot of us thought that Ankiel was still going to be a .850 OPS outfielder as well, since there were plenty of people here that didn’t want to trade him for anything either.
It’s not “no comparison”, it’s a very interesting question.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I don't think...
they even would’ve accepted Ludwick and Mortensen…. Gonzalez, Smith, and Street has a lot more upside.
Ask me about my avatar!
That's still not answering the question
It’s avoiding the question. The deal was rumored to be out there — would you make this deal instead of the deal that we ended up making, knowing what we know now?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
my gut says no
while luddy has been down overall, i most definitely prefer him out there than some combo of dunkiel get regular ABs, even with the additional half year of Holliday.
the wild card is what else we might have used Wallace for at the trade deadline. i dont recall another OF moved that I can say I would have had great interest in that would be worth Wallace. maybe attempting to pry Crawford away from the rays. but i doubt they make that move til the off season regardless of what we offered in this hypothetical situation
So you're asking...
if, last winter, we knew that Ludwick would be a sub 800 ops guy AND that we would eventually trade Wallace/Mort/Peterson for Holliday to juice up the offense, would we trade Ludwick and Mort for Holliday last winter.
Of course the answer is yes. If we somehow knew that one player would suck, and the other would be great, why wouldn’t we trade sucky for great?
Ask me about my avatar!
Ludwick sucks?
Wallace is great?
Of course the answer is yes?
Extreme oversimplification.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I meant Holliday has been great...
In 2008 Ludwick and Holliday were both worth roughly six wins and had similar ZIPS projections for 2009. Ludwick was projected as 274/.347/.522. I can’t find Holliday, but I believe it was similar. Last winter, trading the two players for each other was obviously a dumb move for the Cardinals considering that Ludwick was under control for two years past when Holliday would become an FA.
But you’re asking that if we knew that Ludwick would slump to a two-win player, while Holliday would remain a six-win player, would we trade them for each other. How can the answer not be yes?
Ask me about my avatar!
Sure, one for one we would
but the Cardinals would have had to throw another player into that deal for sure, and we’d only have Holliday for 2009 guaranteed, whereas Ludwick is controlled for the next couple of years yet. That has to be factored in, and you’re not doing so.
A lot of it hinges on whether you believe that ‘09 Ludwick is the “True Ryan Ludwick”, but even if you do, that 2 win player for 3 more seasons is roughly equal to Holliday’s 6 wins in 2009.
I tend to agree with you — I would have done that deal knowing what I know now, but you can see how WAR valuations for projected seasons can make even that deal look a lot closer than it probably should look.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Wallace puts it far over the top...
I could make the case that Holliday 2009 is as valuable as Ludwick 2009-2011, but when you toss in Wallace, it’s not even close.
Ask me about my avatar!
in response to this —
Let me ask you a question. If we had traded Ludwick to Colorado and he had posted a 280/360/500 line, would Colorado have been willing to give him up for Wallace in July? Definitely yes.
- i have to disagree. at best, the answer to this question is “maybe.” because at the break, Colorado was 2 games out in the wild-card chase, and their record was only half a game worse than the Cardinals’. if (as you postulate) Luddy had an .860 OPS at the time, it’s hard to imagine Colorado dumping him for a not-quite-MLB-ready prospect. that’s a trade you make if you’re playing for next year -- and at the break, Colorado was definitely still playing for 2009.
now, you might argue that Colorado would have been in a much worse position at the break if, during the winter, they had traded for Ludwick / Perez / Schu instead of for street and gonzalez. that’s a fair argument, but it’s impossible to know the answer. if Luddy had an .860 OPS, as postulated, i suspect they’d be in contention no matter what.
at this moment in time, wallace looks like a vastly more valuable commodity. but as of late july - when luddy had pushed his OPS back up near .850, and wallace was struggling to adjust to triple A - it wasn’t such a clear-cut call. and until wallace proves he can play 3B adequately in the bigs, his true value will be very difficult to project.
new SBNation
does not care for the -- blah bla blah -- style of writing. it annoys me.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
blah blah blah pretty much is my style.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
alt+0151 on windows, option+shift+- on macs
I didn’t know the comments had implemented textile, but that’s how I used to get around it on another web site.
SBNATION IS PREJUDICED AGAINST EM DASHES
Pro-tip — if you use em dashes in excess (like me), always preview your post so you don’t screw up like that guy with the eye avatar up there.
It happens
when you have a hyphen that gets recognized as a dash. It’s a really annoying format issue here at SBNation.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
hmm...
thougth they were farther back than that… in any case I suppose should have put it in terms of value. Ludwick is going to cost around $16 million from 2009-2011. Going into the season it would have been reasonable to assume he would’ve contributed, what, 10-12 war over that time period? Now we’re looking at maybe 9 war? In any case, Wallace is so much more valuable than that.
But you’re right it would’ve been an odd trade to make given they were so close to the WC lead.
Ask me about my avatar!
The problem with WAR value analysis though
is that it completely disregards the time, score, and situation of when the deal takes place. It’s concerned only with the intrinsic value of the players on each side of the equation, and that’s simply not the way that trades should be evaluated.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i'm inclined to agree w/ you fourstick
basically, the “R” value in WAR -- ie, the replacement player -- is not a constant. it varies from situation to situation. in the case we’re discussing here, if Colorado traded for Wallace he would be replacing Ian Stewart, who (like Wallace) is young, cheap, and can hit. so a WAR-centric analysis is not all that meaningful. Wallace would not be adding 3.0 wins a year (or whatever his projected WAR is) to the Rockies’ baseline, because their baseline at 3b is not a generic baseline-level player; he’d be replacing a guy who is nearly as good (or maybe better, when you factor in defense).
in this hypothetical case, even though wallace is more valuable intrinsically, luddy might be more valuable within the Rockies’ specific context -- and that would be true whether or not they were in contention.
no
Timeline matters to me. Before Holliday left his home grounds, he hadn’t tasted the sweet failboat of a non-competitive AL team. His price point reflected that.
At the time, I am not even sure we knew if Colby was coming up or not — and Ludwick is the last outfielder I want to see leave, if only because he’s been saving a lot of runs out there. I liked that he’d be motivated to succeed not only as a major leaguer, but as a difference-maker on a good team.
Also at the time, we had no idea if the bullpen was going to firm up. Trading away TINSTAAPPs was the last thing I’d want to do.
The value of those deals changed over time. I’d still keep Ludwick.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
that is to say
The ability to keep Holliday is a large part of his potential value.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
This is how I feel as well
But I’m also not as high on Wallace as a lot of other people here, so I’d like to see how they feel on this topic. In terms of WAR value, I think you almost have to pull the trigger on the Ludwick deal, because, according to guys like VEP, Ludwick won’t be worth as much in his cost controlled years as Wallace would be, assuming Wallace plays 3B for the Cardinals.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Wallace never struck me as a good fit for the Cardinals, anyway.
I was always waiting for Wallace to develop some other skill. Like a third arm or something, I dunno.
I confess I don’t really follow the prospects all that much….
As a team, we may need Ludwick more, if only for the transitional period — too many guys in that outfield were and are having ups and downs. Luddy’s been a steady, if not spectacular constant.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ludwick's numbers with RISP this season
.326/.373/.956 AVG/OBP/OPS. I’d still keep him.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
could we be the first to clinch our
Division? I know that the yanks have clinched a playoff spot, but not their division. The dodgers are close to clinching a playoff spot, but not their division.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Sep 25, 2009 11:59 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
well FWIW Matt Holliday wants to kick the butts of his old team. in a friendly way.
he’s probably making that “grrr” face, too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's a foregone conclusion...
that we’ll be the first to clinch. Our magic number is one while the Phillies, Dodgers and Angels set at four…the Yankees at five and Detroit at 8. All we need is a Cubs loss or a Cards win in the next two days to be first to clinch.
Dodgers can’t clinch this weekend without us winning at least one game.
Angels play late on Saturday, so we have the opp to clinch before them.
Philadelphia has the best chance…but they need 2 wins and 2 Atlanta losses, and possibly their Saturday game to finish before ours.
Also we have Carp and Waino going tonight and tomorrow…we should be able to win one. If not, the Cubs are going up against Lincecum and Zito and should be able to lose one.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Who gets a warning for throwing a hanging curveball up and in?
Only the Royals.
Not afraid to nitpick
it was great to see that Zack Greinke is in fact badass, though.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Dennis Leonard
holds the KC record for strikeouts in a season? I’d have never guessed that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
admit it, Zack. embrace the badassery.
Greinke was ejected after Gibson’s call of a ball that gave Red Sox batter Jacoby Ellsbury a 2-2 count against Royals starter Anthony Lerew. But it wasn’t just that pitch that riled Greinke. He’d been watching Gibson’s calls from the dugout and later from a television in the clubhouse.
Finally, he came into the dugout and unloaded verbally.
“I just lost my composure, at least temporarily,” Greinke said. “I don’t usually do that. But it happens sometimes. I did right there, I don’t know why. It wasn’t warranted to be as vocal as I was about it.”
Yes, Greinke is usually the mild-mannered superman who spends most of his time gaining momentum for the AL Cy Young Award. This was a rare outburst.
“I was loud because I wanted him to hear me,” Greinke said. “I shouldn’t have done it.”
Gibson pointed toward the dugout and thumbed out Greinke, who left immediately.
to retrieve his luggage.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 25, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
in which case Zack's best response is "Who?"
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Maybe Zack's Response
Should be, “yeah he was a great receiver, but why should I care about his analysis of my pitching. Wait which Rice?”
Greinke is a bit overrated
I’d like to see how he’d fare against the Yankees this year.
He doesn’t deserve the AL Cy Young without facing the Yankees. To be considered the best, you have to beat the best, which I doubt he could do. The Yankees would chew him up and smack around his fraudulent ERA.
by olddomination on Sep 25, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jim.....is that you?
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
I have read a lot of crazy comments on VEB, and this is one of them
Although if you expand this kind of logic, no Yankee pitcher can ever again win the Cy Young.
Also;
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
you've gotta be kidding.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
And add to that the other story on the WWL's site
about Rich Harden sitting the rest of the season out because…he doesn’t wanna pitch no more, basically.
(Yes, I know, if Harden’s arm is actually fatigued, it’s probably a good idea to shut it down rather than pitch completely unimportant games…but man, they just make it too easy sometimes, don’t they?)
given the sheer, beautiful violence of our walk-off celebrations
I wouldn’t lay the schadenfreude too thick. We’re always a few punches away from snapping Brendan Ryan like a matchstick…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Oh, I know, believe me...
But really…it’s pretty much impossible for me to not make at least a little fun of the Cubs whenever possible. It’s in the blood…almost like a reflex. It’d be like asking a salmon not to swim upstream, a bird not to lay eggs, Tim McCarver not to state the obvious every time he opens his mouth.
you need to talk to fang, then.
gdm’s disowned him
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Ryan's fine
Remember the Cards have a boxing coach.
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
6ly
Boog is a walking injury risk. Even if he brings up his offensive numbers, they’ll always need a reliable backup for him.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Amen
I think the club should impose a restriction on the kidney punches, at least for the rest of the regular season.
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 25, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, you weren't kidding
“He doesn’t want to pitch and we respect his wishes,” Piniella said. … “We want to thank him for his contributions.”
I still can’t believe that isn’t an Onion article.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
"We want to thank him for his contributions."
Doesn’t that sound like something you’d say about a player you had NO intentions of trying to re-sign?
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 25, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Piniella buys into the “curse” business now, does he?
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
i think they coined it last year-ish....
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Changed his tune
since first coming on board and insisting that nobody in the organization refer to curses and voodoo and pictures of a wizard and what-not.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
hehehe.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Well...
I think that may be because nothing is ever Lou’s fault, and when I say “ever” I mean like not in eleventy billion years has Lou ever done anything wrong.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Nah, they're
“cubby occurences” according to him. heh.
According to those lousy Brits
the Cardinals are an obscure baseball team.
Twitter has decided to act after Tony La Russa, the coach of an obscure American baseball team, launched a legal action over a fake account. He claimed that postings in which he appeared to make light of the death of two of his players had been ‘hurtful’.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1214734/Trick-Tweet-Twitter-launches-crackdown-millions-duped-fake-accounts.html#ixzz0S8imqnOY
fanshot nexdef'd.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Fanshots
Some of them are real good.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
Or, as the old adage goes,
Don’t judge content by its sidebar prominence.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Sep 25, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
that's crazy man
some of those fanshots are freakin’ awesome
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Yeah, I never fanpost, I'm a shooter.
…and you’re missin out on my comedy gold.
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
and informitive
why some tell you to buy cool new books, and some add to the growing legend of Boog
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
don't blame me
I did buy the cool book
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Probably
but I would venture to say that every cricket club in England is probably “obscure” to you too. In fact, you could probably say the same thing about most of the Premier League soccer clubs too.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Sorry
but you’re wrong on the Premier League club part (though totally right on the cricket part). I’m a soccer (futbol) fanatic.
I agree. Most people know about Premier League teams, or at least most journalists.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Not Newcastle.
/sigh
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
My favorite
is Tottenham Hotspur. Not that I know anything about them, I just love the name.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I disagree with that assessment
When you qualify something with an adjective like “obscure”, you’re saying that it’s obscure compared to others of its kind.
“An obscure comic book convention” couldn’t be used to refer to large conventions that would be obscure to mainstream society if you’re using the English language in a non-obfuscatory way.
“An obscure baseball team” similarly would be used to refer to baseball teams that are relatively unknown compared to other baseball teams.
Not being prescriptive, just making an observation on how that construction would be interpreted.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Sep 25, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's the writer's faulty word usage that's troubling...
but you can see where I’m coming from — if this person knows nothing of baseball, just like most Americans know nothing of Cricket, then the only baseball teams he’s probably even going to recognize are the Red Sox and Yankees (thanks WWL!!!).
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
See, I can see where you're coming from, that's likely what happened.
If so it’s a really dumb writing choice (not that you said it wasn’t). Gee, I personally haven’t heard of a baseball team, when admittedly I probably could only name about 2 or 3 teams in the first place? Must be obscure! And I have no problem with my article assuming this to be the case. I’ll even help myself out by not naming the team in question, making it more unlikely my readers will recognize anything since they’d have to actually know who Tony La Russa is to figure out which team I’m talking about.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
it's infuriating because one is a NEWS person
readers will not know of obscure persons and events because they are not informed of them. thus making them obscure.
it’s like umpires with a magic amoeba strikezone.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
A self-fulfilling prophecy, almost.
This pitcher has awesome control, so that was probably a strike. (Then, later…) Wow, look how seldom that pitcher walks anybody, he really does have great control!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Good point.
I don’t know why I occasionally forget that journalists (aside from the few true beat reporters left in sports and business sections) don’t do their homework.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
-1
Gross, extreme, insulting, untrue blanket statement right there.
I'm afraid you are among the majority...
with your opinion on this board, and it wasn’t a blanket statement:
the few true beat reporters left in sports and business sections
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
They don't make them like they used to
You can easily make a generalization the reporters don’t have to do as much homework, and whether that’s critical of the reporters, editors, or society in general I’ll leave to you. However, If you look at a Time magazine or NYTimes piece from 20 years ago and one from yesterday, the quality of writing, the amount of analysis, etc. is not even in the same ballpark. I guess everyone’s to blame on that.
In Prague it was hilarious
I got split off from the group at one point—-at 1 AM—-and I was trying to call people but my phone wasn’t working or the network was down or something. The automated response operator thing would say “I’m sorry, but the phone you are trying to ring is being cheeky, please try again later”.
Not afraid to nitpick
From what I've heard of Prague
I expect that would be of heightened hilarity, too.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
I was shitting my pants at the time
By myself in the middle of a city where not a high percentage of people even speak English and even the cabbies are known to screw you over. Luckily I managed the most improbable and awesome use of my high school German possibly imaginable.
Not afraid to nitpick
I love it when languages come in handy when you don't expect it.
My Spanish skills once really impressed some ladies in the elevator of the Reichstag. Also I once used it to converse with a rather interesting smelling eastern European couple who happened to speak it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
In a train in Italy. Europe is crazy like that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I had a Bulgarian Spanish teacher at SIU
never figured that one out
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Sep 25, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting
The name of the chair of the Spanish department at my college was Wilhelmson.
Also there was this Bulgarian exchange student name German (pronounced with a g as in gut, not a g as in germ) whose nickname was Gero and he was a really cool dude. He was really good-looking too, I think people knew he had a girl back home or else ladies would have been all over him what with him being tall and dark and having an accent.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Older Eastern Europeans don't believe in deodorant
The public transit frequently smelled AWFUL.
The best is when your American accent comes in handy. If you run into a British girl, make sure you use the word “delicious”. Apparently we say it funny and awesome and sexy. Don’t ask me, just go with it.
But getting lost—-all because I went 30 yards and 10 seconds away to get a chicken sandwich—-eventually led to me pulling off the smoothest line of my life: “So how do you say you have beautiful eyes”. Thus “cheeky phones” are funny ha-ha and not funny god-damnit.
God I want to back to Europe.
Not afraid to nitpick
obscure indeed
From this side of the Atlantic, the Mail is an obscure British newspaper.
The comment illustrates the writer’s ignorance, but nothing to get upset about.
I have a hard time believing it's ignorance
I find it more likely that it’s some kind of inside joke between that writer and some friend who is a Cards fan. Few Daily Mail readers might notice, but mentioning any kind of relative obscurity doesn’t serve any purpose other than antagonizing someone or other.
Nothing to get upset about, but still quirky enough to take note of and BS about.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
"Nothing to get upset about, but still quirky enough..." etc
That was the thinking behind my fanshot. I mostly find it amusing and just good fodder for humorous complaint, but when you break it down it really is kind of dumb.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The Cardinals are obscure to foreigners
Most have never heard of St. Louis, so would they be expected to know a team playing in a city they’ve never heard of? Plus, the Cardinals haven’t really had much success (only two titles in the past 40 years), so they wouldn’t gain international notice.
by olddomination on Sep 25, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If you were writing an article about the manager of Manchester City
would you refer to them as an obscure (european) football team or just a football team? They’re not even as successful as the Cardinals have been, but they’re far from obscure.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I would just like to say
I can’t watch (most of the) game tonight, but I am ready to get home from work, pop a Schlafly’s Oatmeal Stout and celebrate a division clinch.
Seems only fitting Carpenter has the chance to win the clinching game.
For me it'll be Schalfly's Octoberfest
Would that be an act or hubris towards the GOB?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
someone pointed out that the safest way was to not mention a time and date.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Also, I figure that in this hypothetical situation the Cardinals would have already achieved the feat of playing in said month.
So it’s celebrating something that happened in the past, rather than predicting the future.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
you're Dr. Who?
I knew it!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm getting some champagne for tonight.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Oh we're clenching tonight...
I forgot.
Or is it clinching? Last night one guy said he was looking forward to clinching and clenching.
Ask me about my avatar!
Hopfully both!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
unclenching is the hard part
not that i’m here to talk about the past or anything
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
ive been drinking those for the past several weeks....
its glorious……
speaking of beer, for those in the stl area check out the new des peres schnucks….the beer section/room is heaven
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
so is the one in cottleville
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Sep 25, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
STLtoday...
http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=663072
Their forum posts are pure comedy.
Any idiot would know that.
That has to be a joke, right?
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
to think i used to post there as my main cardinals outlet...
/shudders
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Someone's Been Sipping Fermented Moo Juice...
…from Sarah Palin’s glass…
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Sep 25, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1000
rec’d…
I can’t even imagine the epic failure that was her “presentation” in Hong Kong earlier this week.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
WARNING POLITICS EVASIVE MANEUVERS GO
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Sep 25, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this lends credence to my belief that about 20% of internet posts are simply
performance art by bored art students around the country.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
This is almost like a conspiracy theory.
If the Cardinals win, Bud Selig will break up the team! And it will be illegitimate because Bud Selig does not have an American birth certificate!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Apropos of nothing,
I just noticed that the Cards lead MLB in pitches per inning by a mile. The difference between us and #2 is more than the difference between #2 and #20.
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 25, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
DD sez : pitch to contact!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Especially impressive
when you consider that our batters are at the second to the bottom for P/PA (3.66) behind the Giants(3.62) and our pitchers don’t ever get to face our own batters, and only rarely the Giants’.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
wait
is this the good kind of ridiculous (AP) or the bad kind?
...yes?
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
for our pitchers, the good kind
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
...and yet we have the lowest number of pitches?
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
I think it means first in the ratio, as in the best ratio
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
fist in the ratio.
This ain’t BCB.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
fist in the ratio.
sounds like an obscure Steely Dan single.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Sep 25, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just to be clear, I meant "lead" in a good way -
our pitchers throw the fewest pitches per inning. We also have the fewest BB/9, and the third best K/BB ratio. Thanks, Joel!
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 25, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice Weihenstephan glass
My favorite German beer.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
I've only had a couple types but Weihenstephan is awesome.
I’ve had their hefe and the Korbinian Doppelbock. Oh goodness.
I love beer.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
God I can't remember the name right now
But it was Konig [Something] Dunkel Weissbier (dark wheat) and it was on a different plane of existence from other beers. German beer rules all.
Not afraid to nitpick
I love a good dunkelweiss
Erdinger made the first one I had and I’ve had a soft spot for them ever since
by brackenthebox on Sep 26, 2009 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions
had my first schlafly the other day
The APA…wasn’t as good as i had hoped, but i’m not a big fan of IPAs and The Flying Saucer didn’t have their seasonal brew, although they said they did
They did have a Scottish Belhaven, and it was yummy
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
goddamn
i miss me some schlafly. i think i set a personal best on number of pale ales imbibed during my last visit to the stl.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Sep 25, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
How are the batters at seeing pitches compared to the rest of the league?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Not good.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You mean good.
We’re still trying to be aggressive, right?!?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Astros have a higher P/PA ratio, though
3.75
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
Interestingly though
When looking at the teams that we have the possibility of facing in the playoffs though, they’re all ahead of the Cardinals by a mile in taking walks. It’s kinda like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object — something’s going to have to break a different direction somewhere…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Gorilla Monsoon?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
this entire thread is like trying to explain 'suck' to Ryan Franklin.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
Apparently the Mrs has made 9:30 dinner reservations tonight for us with some of her high school friends. And it’s one of those fancy restaurants that doesn’t have TVs and will disprove of the celebratory thrusting of my crotch in victory when we clinch. This does not please me.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
"when we clinch"
Ahem. Did you ever stop and think that maybe this is the GOB preemptively punishing you for assuming too much?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
No. GOB and I are tight.
He said Carp gets it done tonight and would like to know which one of you is Hermano.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
has anyone here actually been able to settle on a favorite AD character?
imo its impossible
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Not really
I’m tempted to say GOB just because he’s the most wacky. But actually, Buster could be said to be the most wacky as well, or Tobias. And there are other characters who are just as funny in their own way. Lucille (not Lucille 2) is hilarious. George Michael is hilarious and he’s also a more sympathetic character than most in that show. It’s very difficult to choose since they’re all so well done.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Bob Loblaw
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
thus why the show was cancled
i still don’t get it
I liked how they made little references to the fact nobody was apparently watching.
They were very subtle and well-hidden, such as when the narrator says “please watch our show”.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i think it comes down to gob, tobias, and buster
but then you think of george michael’s fascination with the mayon-egg and you can’t leave him out either. or how he just collapses to the floor in grief after she dumps him…..
man oh man is that show brilliant.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Id have to say
tobias because i laugh as soon as i see him
same
that was my halloween costume two years ago. i drank a lot and got blue paint on everything in my apartment building and the bar i was at. overall it was one of my better halloweens
by gotyourselfastew on Sep 25, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Dig the name. Welcome to VEB
I did the same thing, except it was with my redundant zombie Jesus costume.
It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.
by YesWeOquendo on Sep 25, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm getting 200 dollars to...
…completely shave my head, paint myself blue (except for a small patch in the back), and rock nevernude cut-offs at the premier of the movie.
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
I did the same thing (same year, I believe)
I also had Analrapist business cards that I was handing out to everyone I met. In retrospect, the show probably wasn’t quite popular enough for taking the costume to that extent.
by brackenthebox on Sep 25, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I have
the same kind of situation, we are to go to my wife’s friends tonight and i dont know the husband, so i have no idea if we will take offense when i take his remote from him and flip between the cards game and the mizzu game on his TV.
thank God for context...
that phrase is a little scary by itself.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
you have no idea
although, still, the past is the past & i’m not going to talk about it
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Just bring your own universal remote
I’m sure that would be much less akward
by brackenthebox on Sep 25, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
We normally do around 7:30. I have no idea why we're eating so late.
However, if Carp wants to be awesome and finish the game ~2 hours, we could catch the end in the bar across the street.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I see you being...
fashionably late for dinner?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
And thats juts the reservation! We porobably won't eat until like 10:15!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
...my schedule says the game starts at 7:10.
Carp start is about 2 hours, if all goes well…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I love that even games a time zone away to the west...
Start earlier than games at Busch.
No more 7:15! Viva el 7:05!
V, b.
now I'm just guessing here
quid = watching The Hangover last night
quo = 9:30 dinner at fancy restaurant tonight
it seems you have chosen poorly
by brackenthebox on Sep 25, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The movie was her idea!
Or so I thought…
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Correct response:
Have a friend text you when the cards score. Jump up and do your crotch thrusting dance. Get kicked out. Go home and watch the rest of the game.
buy your wife a gift certificate for a massage.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
or...
feign H1N1 and tell your wife it’d be a shame for her to miss dinner with friends because your sick.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Maybe my most important discovery in life
Is that one of the best things a man can be good at is giving massages. It’s the ultimate any-time free gift.
On the other hand, it negates the power of buying massage gift certificates. So you have to come up with other stuff.
I'm quite certain
that the guys in the kitchen have a TV. If you have time for some pre-gaming at the bar, I bet you could talk the keep into getting you updates.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
I have MLB audio on my blackberry
I may just play the game during dinner, pretending it’s totally normal.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Are you in St. Louis? If you are people will think this is totally normal, I’m pretty sure.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
yup.
I’m really hoping the game only goes two hours.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I followed a Cards-Cubs game
on a blackberry (the gameday thingy) during a wedding. It was great until I dropped it and got it taken away from me. I was trying to send signs to the groomsmen for updates.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
For my fellow non-St. Louisans...
Tomorrow night’s game is on MLB Network.
Sunday afternoon’s game is on TBS.
V, b.
Cool. I can watch Sunday’s on my normal TV. Clemson really needs to get MLB Network.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
oh well, eff! that's an anticlimactic answer
Wellemeyer was the Halo junkie.
that explains so much.
maybe the rumors of him getting stuck on video games over preparation are true.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
he ruins everything
i hope he’s not gotten Colby hooked on the life of xbox
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Why do they call it an X-BOX 360?!
’Cause when you see it, you turn 360 degrees and walk away!
amidoinitrite?
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
If you turned 360 degrees you would be facing it again.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
He was told there'd be no math.
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
So since we don’t get it, we’re the cool kids? Okay, this works.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Dude, I'm internet-cool.
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
I'm also offended...
Since I own an Xbox 360. And I THINK, although I’m not positive, that it was an insult to my finely crafted machine that has required replacement on no fewer than 3 occasions.
V, b.
I've been wanting one JUST for Forza 2...
…but then again, I want a PS3 for The Show
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
Yeah, I guess GT5 should be coming out soon enough...
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
not sure if serious
i’m a fellow 360 brethren of three months (my fiancee made the purchase, i’ve sworn by nintendo most of my life) and i’ve perpetually enjoyed the orange box, but little else since. i just received oblivion and bioshock in the mail, so hopefully that changes. but for right now…eh.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Sep 25, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for SOMEONE getting it.......
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
Yessssssss!
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
clenching lineup?
Skip Ryan Pujols Holliday Rasmus Ludwick DeRosa Molina Carp
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Yay Colby’s playing! I was going to go out but now I think I’ll stay home.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
that's what she said?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I wasn’t really going out-out. That was my original plan but then people called me to get them keys or let them in at all hours of the night last night so I was too tired to really go out. I was going to go to something at my church. Now I’m staying in because I’m too tired to do anything.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I'm staying in
because that’s where the champagne is.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
Still think
you move Ludwick up and not down here, and hate to see Molina batting in front of the pitcher.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
Rasmusticus?
“I am Colby Rasmus”
“I am Colby Rasmus”
“I am Colby Rasmus”
…
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
I got Pujols
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 25, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I got Ludwick
I suppose I should start being more carefull with my luggage.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Quiz link?
I took the legends quiz and got Gibby.
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
I am Rick Ankiel, according to facebook.
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
"POOL TEMPERATURES FUCK YEAH"--tgreenfield, The September 10th-11th VEB Off-Topic Explosion
I'm sorry.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
We are both headcases?
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
"POOL TEMPERATURES FUCK YEAH"--tgreenfield, The September 10th-11th VEB Off-Topic Explosion
1995 World Series highlights on MLB Network...
And Jim Thome just let loose an uber-douche bat flip in game 5.
V, b.
And back to Atlanta for Game 6!
The first shot? Guys playing banjos. See…because it’s the South. Ha!
V, b.
And finally...
A championship parade through Atlanta with hilariously dated wardrobe selections. And Bobby Cox wasn’t beating his wife, which was good for everybody.
V, b.
can someone please explain why the 4th starter in postseason is even up for debate?
Lohse – 4.81 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, .779 OPS against, 68 k’s, 34 BB’s
Smoltz – 3.18 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 600 OPS against, 37 k’s, 4 BB’s – best postseason pitcher of all time
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions
because smoltz would have a more important role in the postseason as a reliever.
probably.
and i would suggest smoltz is merely the winningest rather than best postseason pitcher.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Because the team may be
better off with Smoltz coming out of the pen in high leverage situations than just one start. JMHO
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
isn't starting lohse over smoltz - almost giving a game away?
all the games are way too important to be sacrificing any games. K-Mac and Hawksworth are worthy set-up men, the only way it makes any sense is if Franklin doesn’t have his shit together still…and even then, I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with it. I think starting Lohse is almost guaranteeing a loss while, Miller, K-mac, Hawk, and Franklin should be able to nail down 6-9 outs
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a fourth spot in the rotation.
Loshe is a pretty strong #4 in my book (assuming he can throw.)
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
K-Mac and Hawksworth
Come on man. I love Hawk, and K-Mac, but seriously. That card house could tumble at any time.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Giving a game a way
Lohse isn’t that bad – it’s not like they’re talking about starting Welley. We’ll see what he looks like in the couple starts he get to finish out the regular season, but he was pretty respectable in Houston on Monday. (Keeping in mind that the two HR he allowed were to the short porch in left, although if I remember correctly Berkman’s was pretty legit.)
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 25, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No to mention
he would be going up against the other teams 4th starter.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
with the exception of Detroit's Jarrod Washburn...
there isn’t a playoff-bound teams 4 starter that I’d like Lohse’s chances against
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
My point was this.
You said starting Lohse would be giving a game away. I wouldn’t go that far against ANY other team’s 4th starter. Maybe against Cliff Lee another ace.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I envision more of a 5 runs in 4 innings type performance...
than a 3 runs in 6 innings type performance, which I think you can reasonably expect from smoltz…..I’m not sure if you can EXPECT that from Lohse
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Or the other team's 1-starter
on short rest if their backs are against the wall. Either way, I’d be happy to see Smoltz pitch in two (or even all) of the three games before that one.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
but say...
the cardinals are losing the series 3-0 or 2-1…do you really want lohse pitching over smoltz in such a pivotal game?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
even if were up 2-1...it gives the other team a better chance
of tying the series up.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You would really rather
Relay on a bullpen of KMac, Hawk, and Franklin in EVERY one of those games when you could have Smoltz back there? We coul play these games all day.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, I'm done.
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
meh...i guess I'm just not as afraid of 3 relievers with a combined 2.42 ERA ...
as I am of a starter who has been consistantly bad most of the season
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
And injured......
the rotation will play out…If Lohse finishes strong he’s the guy…you’re picking your stats at will….what’s Smotzl’s line look like with the AL numbers in there? I’d assume worse than a season of mediocre Lohse. Smotzl will be used where he will be most effective in DD and TLR’s eye’s…….Speaking of DD, anybody know where he is tonight?
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
speaking of dunc...
any chance Oquendo lands the Houston (or any) gig and takes dunc with him?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're underestimating Lohse
I don’t think he’s as bad as his numbers this year (w/ multiple injuries) indicate.
In any event, Smoltz coming out of the bullpen 1) can pitch in more games and 2) will pitch much higher leverage innings than Lohse will. Lohse will likely only appear once in any given series, Smoltz could conceivably appear in as many as four games in a seven game series.
Lohse's stats this season are consinstant with his career stats
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I would argue that they regressed after he got injured.
But it really doesn’t matter, as your mind was made up when you hit post the first time.
! start vs 3-4 late inning high leverage situations. Don’t forget the TLR proven veteran mantra. If Lohse is healthy, I’m convinced he is the 4th guy.
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
he didn't regress too much
he had 4 quality starts out of 9 tries before the injury, and 5 quality starts in 11 tries since the injury
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd start Lohse
and if I’m really that worried about him, I have the short hook for him if he struggles early. And Admiral First Ballot is still available for the later, highly leveraged innings. (I don’t think Smoltz would make a good long reliever….)
Or, since the guy is signed to a large contract with a NTC, maybe I try to trust at least a teensy bit and hope he’s able to settle in, since he’s going to be pitching here beyond just this year.
it’s not like they’re talking about starting Welley
Maybe not,….but those Lohse stats above are pretty Welley-esque compared to welley’s career stats
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 25, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
well, we could theoretically win the NLDS in three straight games.
i would think having him in the relief corps would strengthen our chances there. if you assume a 4 or 5 game series, i don’t know if he’s better off in the bullpen or the rotation. but i don’t see starting lohse or even boggs as giving the game away.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
do you need a 4th starter after the NLDS?
I was thinking more along the lines of Smoltz taking the start in the NLDS and then being available out of the pen for the rest of the playoffs.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
At any rate
If the intent is to use Smoltz out of the pen in the playoffs, I sure hope they try him in relief a few times before the season is over.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think...
that’s the nut of the issue – he wants to start and only signed with STL b/c they told him he could start.
Ask me about my avatar!
And start he has...
I can’t imagine that Smoltz wouldn’t do what is best for the team to help them win a championship. S’pose I could be wrong though.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert Pujols is better than you." -Jim Palmer
by tangledbrett on Sep 25, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true....
the quote was something to the effect of take the starts, get stronger, and when the playoffs start, I just want the ball. Doesn’t care about the situation. I will dig for the quote.
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
Here you are
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
TLR
"His attitude echoes ours and that is he’s got experience doing both, and he’s willing to do whatever gives us our best chance to win," La Russa said. "Right now it’s important for him to take innings and get his delivery going and have a feel for his pitches.
"So the more he’s out there, the better."
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
hmm...
that’s TLR paraphrasing Smoltz… big diff. I bet Smoltz doesn’t take the ball out of the pen regularly – he might make a random appearance in a deciding game. I fervently hope I’m wrong, especially now that Franklin has been so good.
Ask me about my avatar!
Smotzl echoes the same thing
"I don’t feel like I’m on any audition," Smoltz said. "What they got me here to do is to pitch and pitch in big games. Whatever role that is, it’s irrelevant at this point."
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
FIRST!
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
Are you late or early?
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
Neither. Bored.
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
yea, and the first among you shall be last, and the last first.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Cut it with the fancy-talk.
Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!
Why is it that national media members are so ignorant about our salary situation?
The information is freely available, yet “they” keep getting it so wrong…
I consistently hear that our salary situation limits us to “80mm” when it’s pretty clear that we are prepared to go significantly higher.
THEN… “these people” keep saying Pujols shouldn’t sign for anything less than A-Rod money… 30mm/year?!?! Seriously? That’s ridiculous. Firstly, YANKEES. Secondly, DIFFERENT ECONOMY. Finally, when he signed his original deal he could have demanded much more and we likely would have bowed to his demands, but he didn’t… because… HIS AGENT ISN’T SCOTT BORAS.
/rant
Of course I could be wrong and Pujols will eat up 30 million of our 80 million team salary in 2012. That would be awesome.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
I'd guess our salary will be over 100 megabucks
next year. If they managed to fill the seats this year, they can fill it any year so long as the product is good.
I imagine Pujols’ extension will have a lot of charitable provisions in it that offsets the paid salary looking significantly below market.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
This is what I have thought all along.
Attendance will be up in 2010 (how much depends on the postseason) and 100mm is a reasonably figure (we’ve been there before)… I don’t see Pujols’ salary costing the team more than 23mm/year plus incentives/NTC, especially if it’s the 5/6 year variety.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Has anyone else posted Neyer's take on Heymen's tweet?
Neyer does make a point:
Maybe I’m missing something here, but when you’ve got a player locked up for two more seasons after this one, wouldn’t you want avoid negotiating with him immediately after his best season?
I like Neyer , but he kind misses the fact that all of Pujols’ seasons are RIDICULOUS. I fully expect next season to be better than this one, so DeWitt should negotiate with him before THAT monster season.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Yeah...
As unbelievable as Albert has been this year, he’s been so good for so long that it’s hard to imagine it affecting his new deal all that much.
V, b.
reading the tea leaves
I think DeWitt is OK with payroll going up. I think they’re gonna try to sign Holliday. If Boras is asking for $25M/yr obviously he’s going to the Yanks, but as long as his demands are reasonable I think they’ll sign him. Pujols is obviously going to Get Paid.
I don’t think anybody knows where it’s going to go from there (DeRo? Pineiro?).
Goold had an intriguing idea
which might negate the Detrimental Man Stew effect … have management tell them outright to get the band back together. So the demands will be high, but they won’t be franchise-crippling, and they could theoretically lock up the priorities.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Pretty sure
DeRo and Pineiro will find lucrative contracts elsewhere.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
uh, he shouldn't take less than $30Mill per
he shouldn’t take less than $40Mill actually
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I don't understand this sentiment.
What do you do with 30M per year when you’ve already made 100M+ in the last decade. I’ve said this time and again, but if I was a baseball player, I’d have Tim Wakefield’s contract with the Red Sox.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
it has nothing to do with what he should do with the money (and that's really none of our business)
but more to do with that is what his true value is, and therefore what he should get paid. i did not say that is what he is going to get paid, i said that’s what he should get paid. i was simply repeating the research that chuck & others have done that has shown Albert’s true, real world, per season dollar amount value.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
So Aaron Cook hasn't pitched in over a month...
And his three previous starts? 3 IP and 4 ER, 2.1 IP and 7 ER, 5 IP and 3 ER.
So all of that guarantees 7 innings of 3-hit ball tonight, right?
V, b.
He's handsome, too
I expect him to pitch ten innings of shutout ball.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
I have decided that I need to get my head out of the gutter
my grandpa saw Joe DiMaggio play the field
my dad saw Hank Aaron go deep
I think it is a good thing I don’t ever feel the need to have children, because I don’t know how to explain to them how and why I saw Albert Pujols do everything
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
you have to get to home plate to have children
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
false. michael jackson has never had sex with a woman.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
don't GDM me Y2S, don't you dare do that!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
- Robinson Cano and Denzel Washington face off in Jay Leno’s Yankees trivia contest
- Shane Victorino lands role on ‘Hawaii Five-0′
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
