Game 113 Overflow Thread
by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2009 3:49 PM EDT
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PrintThis overflow gets posted in the 8th inning. I'm an inning early. Go Cards!
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KHALIL!!
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I hope he gets a good welcome at Busch
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
perfect timing
my FF was starting to shit and act like it was about to crash
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
K-Bot!
Pour it on! Avenge Albert!
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
this inning calls for a kaheel
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
kal-el even
buccos officially down for the count
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
now I'm confused
I thought Kal-El was Kyle Lohse.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
he is
my bad
seeing him get a hit was too much for my fingers
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
it's the Cardinals' fault for taking so many players with lookalike names.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
We had a...
cal el on this team a few years ago. He sucked.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
bahaha. oh memories.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
A rainy day after labor day
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Natural order of things - In Macbeth when nature is disturbed all manner of weird things happen
Owls fly around during the day, horses eat each other, Cards front office obtains good players. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
No, they're being punished because they're not very good.
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
no.
they’re being punished by the cardinals for having a roster of AAA ballplayers.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Cubs in Coors.
Look at scoreboard. Weep.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
Cubs got 'em loaded with 1 out a Fukodome up
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
*and
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
i only find it funny
if I imagine Harry Caray pronouncing it.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
harry caray.
mispronouncing it. every night.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
that's the one!
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
They're about to take the lead
Bases loaded, 1 out.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Capps is going to wake in a cold sweat for the rest of his life
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Sauce time
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Don't throw that changeup in the zone
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
he's crazy Motte right now
fewer words. more thumping.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Uh oh
Back-to-back sauce. Fingers crossed.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
Best thing about this
if we hang on that is, is that Pin gets the win
The Redbirds are of the highest priority to me... As it should be
I didn't think about that.
Good for him. He buckled, but didn’t break. After the 3rd inning he was way better.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Thurston and Motte in
Wow, kind of like taking methadone, isn’t it?
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Being addicted to a drug that doesn't make you high?
I guess.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
methadone doesn't get you high?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
first pitch drill?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
/sad panda
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
hell no, not Motte
that’s manslaughter
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Oh, lord - Thursy and Welly in - GoBs tempting to give Pirates a chance
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
whoops Motte not Welly - just pitches like him
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
nah.
it’s the perfect situation for welley. in fact, it’s the only situation for welley.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
hoople time
better have better sauce today
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
nah
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
yeah their feed is going nuts
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
lol
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
HD feed was goofy
for awhile, so I came upstairs and joined all my Internet friends.
Hello Internet friends!!
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
no more Sauce.
bye Sauce.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
And Tony's seen enough
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
can't give up 2 dingers
if you only pitch to one guy
genius
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
When I saw Motte and Thurston in there
I started fearing the 5 run inning and Thurston getting up with the game on the line in the 9th
by olddomination on Aug 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Motte's performance reminds me of
My first time having sex. A couple throws than out of the game fast
Stat Whore
Really fast with no control?
Hell, I’m still having sex that way.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
hard and straight as an arrow?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
welly can hold this lead.
Even if you suck as bad as franklin you can hold this lead.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 9, 2009 3:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
What was TLR even thinking was going to happen there?
What a bizarre usage of Motte.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I sense that Jason is in the doghouse.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Ever see the JC Penny dog house commercial? Should have Motte there and set the house in Cleveland
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
What was he hoping for the outcome?
You’re up by 4. You used Motte yesterday. Why is he going to Motte again only to pull him after a base hit? I don’t really understand.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
you know in a month or so, tony,
We might need the still functioning members of the bullpen like trever miller. It would be nice if they weren’t burnt out from pitching in four-run games. Thx.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 9, 2009 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hillman used Soria in a 9-run game last night
I think Soria is the only decent arm in the Royals bullpen. Naturally Soria gave up 3 runs.
KSDK can't even handle airing their ads.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Cubs escape inning
with one run.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
probably the rockies were the ones escaping.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the (intended) joke.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
how is pineiro
the pitcher of record?
he only pitched seven
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
oh shit
it’s the eighth
i thought it was the ninth
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
yeah
that’s gotta be it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
b/c he was the last pitcher who had pitched for us
when we went up.
He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt
He was the pitcher...
when the runs were scored.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
the thought of Dennys steadying a boat is an interesting image
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
So, worried or relieved with Pineiro's outing?
I didn’t like the battering he was taking early on, but I thought he settled down, made some good pitches, and his mound presence on defense helped right his ship.
At least he didn’t cave, and he hung tough, which I was happy to see.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
livin on the edge
against the bucs
tougher more than better
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Return to those thrilling days of Izzyear
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Nice.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 9, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask and ye shall receive
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
there ya go
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Aug 9, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
BIG Strikeout, Trev
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
how many pitchers can we use
to get 6 outs?
find out after this short break!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
my moey is on 5
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 9, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
always on five
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Aug 9, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
How dare KSDK go to commercial
I really wanted to do the ooooooh for I Saw Her Standing There… what a bunch of jerkfaces.
Why not?
Why have him up if he’s just going to fight Thompson for those mop-up jobs?
by Michael_68_1999 on Aug 9, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw Hawk
And I don’t know why, but I instantly thought of this picture:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Aug 9, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Such a rec!
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
now i'm nervous
kmac needs to go more than 1 batter today
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
gaww?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
K-Mac in
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
K-smack (ed)
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Agree - particularly if you striek "management"
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
E-HILL
LOLOLOLOL
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
and a wild pitch and the run scores
loololololololol
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 9, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
The Cardinals' bullpen (prior to this game) have throw the
fewest innings in all of baseball. They’ve had more appearances than 21 other teams.
This is shitty bullpen management.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
wow
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
and/or
crappy pitchers who get in trouble instantly too often
some of both i think
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Sure that might get you past a few teams
but to be in the top 10 in appearances when you are DEAD LAST in innings thrown. Sorry, that’s got TLR’s fingerprints all over it.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
perhaps over-managed
because the pieces just aren’t that great.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Good find
Pretty telling stat
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
pay no attention
to the man behind the aviators
He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt
So you're saying...
our relievers should face more hitters in general?
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
When we're up by 4 runs?
Yeah, I’d find a guy like Hawksworth who can toss two innings and let him at it. Obviously TLR had no intention of that from the start by sending in Motte.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Right...
but I mean in general. Too much fiddling and playing the matchups by TLR? I ask b/c he’s always done it this way, and he’s widely regarded (correctly, imo) as the best in baseball at handling the pen. Is he doing something different this year? Or just the usual habits taken to extremes?
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
That I can't answer.
It seems like we’ve seen a lot of relievers in these games even when we’ve got a healthy margin to work with but I don’t have any objective way of verifying it. That’s an opinion that’s likely to have a lot of personal bias in it.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
i'd agree with that
TLR uses premium arms in garbage situations way too often for my liking, I think I’ll have to go put some numbers together about that.
However, he’s won a few more world series’ than i have. I’m not saying I can’t question his decision making this year, but i think he’s earned the benefit of the doubt.
he's lost a few more than you, as well.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
TLR always gets the panics as September gets closer
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
My biggest issue with this
is all the warmup pitches we’re asking our relievers to throw and the constant up and down for their arms. These guys are going to be (if they aren’t already) exhausted.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
if they're exhausting themselves warming up, they shouldn't be playing organized baseball.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i think the point
is that they’re having to work more than they need to. in a season that is exhausting before the fact
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
my point is that they know their bodies better than we do.
they know when they’re warm. if they’re up in the pen, it’s to get warm, not to exert or over-exert.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
but
getting warm != rest. a bullpen can’t have enough rest going down the stretch
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
larussa may have mismanaged the 'pen.
i won’t argue that. but he’s not ruining arms.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
he throws one pitch.
back-to-back against the same team with him is just silly. we can’t say for sure that’s arm fatigue.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
this guy's supposed to be our closer of the future and he can't pitch on back to back nights?
WTF.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Not until he's
refined his secondary stuff.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
my comment was addressed to those specualting about arm fatigue..
not to the fact Motte doesn’t have a second pitch and his fastball is very hittable now.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
A sideways 8, I think
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
warming up in the pen is essentially playing catch. and it's not game-situation stress.
it’s not even remotely similar.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
totally agree.
everyone knows starters throw between starts, right?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like i have an ally who has actuall
played baseball before.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I played (and pitched) in college
unfortunately, being a 6’0" righthander who topped out at 87mph meant an end to any hope of playing further.
I don’t think people generally give enough weight to the variability your arm experiences when pitching. Some days your arm feels great, even if you’ve pitched three days in a row, other times you haven’t pitched in a week and your arm is dead – your fastball has no zip, your curve doesn’t bite. Believe me, a pitcher can tell when he’s doesn’t have “it” – and knows he’s going to get lit up. Coaches can often spot it too, even if the pitcher doesn’t intimate it. If Tony pulls a guy after one hit, it means he saw something he didn’t like, or Motte could have let him know he didn’t have “it.” Who knows. Ultimately, the bullpen management worked out well today. TLR pulled a guy quick because he didn’t want the game to get out of control, he brought in a loogy to get an important strikeout, and he went back to a RH to close out the game (no thanks to Thursty). Hardly bullpen mismanagment today.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that the run differential dictated that a mop-up guy would have sufficed,
Instead he burns three of his highest-leverage and most appearance relievers.
15=/=25
Congratulations
you and hangingfromatree continue to completely miss the point. it’s not about isolated incidents of pitchers throwing consecutively. it’s about a systematic overusage of the bullpen in scenarios where it isn’t warranted. It’s about an additional 10% warmup throws adding to that workload that aren’t even thrown in game.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
you say systematic overusage as if you know what the f you're talking about...
nothing you’ve said so far indicates overusage, much less systematic overusage.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
fewest innings and top 1/3rd appearances
doesn’t sound like people are being used needlessly? When I do something I don’t need to do, I call that going overboard. When TLR uses multiple relievers in low leverage situations repeatedly, that’s an overusage of the bullpen as a whole.
I’m (as in me personally) am not contending that he’s overusing any individual reliever but rather that he’s overusing the bullpen as a whole.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
that's my point....
simply juxtaposing the number of bullpen innings and the number of appearances doesn’t show “needlessness.” Wouldn’t these factors necessarily affect those numbers, but not indicate TLR’s “needless” meddling?
1. Our starters (who have collectively been good, Wellemeyer notwithstanding) throw more innings than other teams’ starters (causing fewer available bullpen innings).
2. We’ve had a 13-man bullpen for part of the season, allowing TLR the “luxury” of switching out relievers more frequently. (I’m not arguing having 13 men was “good,” just saying that it likely led to more switches but not necessarily more innings per arm)
3. We have two loogys, leading to more switches. They throw few innings and I’m not aware that their # of apearances, or innings, are out of line with their career norms or their preferences.
4. Our relievers seem like they walk a lot of batters (I haven’t done the stats work on this but our bullpen’s walk rate has to be higher than most, right?). I’d rather TLR have a quick hook when relievers start walking people.
5. Much of our relief corps is fungible (and not especially good)- except for Franklin and the loogys, I don’t think anyone’s been that impressive, so why would it matter whether they got “saved” for some unknown future higher leverage situation?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
- Fewest innings
- 9th in appearances
- 13 pitchers
Something is wrong here. Those three things should not be taking place in the same season.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Something is wrong here. Those three things should not be taking place in the same season.
What is “wrong” though? Because it just doesn’t seem right to you? Because it conflicts with some pre-conceived notion you have with how a bullpen should be run?
One could just easily point to these same things and say “look how great TLR is managing the bullpen.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 10, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
warm-up pitches are not workload. period.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i think we all agree just about every aspect of the all-star game
is a recipe for disaster. throwing a hundred warm-up pitches, getting up and sitting down and never knowing when or if you’re going into a game that [barely] matters is not the most clever idea. that, however, is not how tlr manages the bullpen, despite numerous one-batter appearances by his staff.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
but
you just said it’s playing catch and doesn’t affect the pitcher. i could go and play catch and throw the ball 100 times!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
not what i said exactly.
warming up once is one thing. lidge got up six times in that all-star game. we’re making specific reference to one event, rather than the generalizing we’ve been doing during the whole of this discourse. different thing entirely. he didn’t throw 100 balls in one session. he got up. threw. sat. got up. threw. sat. got up. threw. sat. got up, sat, got up. threw. sat. et cetera. tony isn’t having his guys do this. no competent coach would. nor would even an incompetent one. plus, lidge is fragile and one isolated incident. he’s not the rule.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
who knows really how lidge got hurt.
that was one hypothesis.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
teams track how many warmup pitches their pitchers throw
so I’m disinclined to just take your word on that one.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
the pen has pitched the fewest innings in the majors...
which you acknowledge, and then you say “they’re having to work more than they need to.” Which one is it? Or do you just want to complain about TLR?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is this:
Pitchers are coming in and throwing less than one or even zero innings at a time more than any other team in the league. When we are up by a large margin, your pitchers who average the highest LI should not be in the game at all, and the fact that they are pitching on consecutive days just makes it even more ridiculous.
15=/=25
Pitchers are coming in and throwing less than one or even zero innings at a time more than any other team in the league.
Why is this necessarily “bad”? Is it that TLR has a quick hook? If he does, is that neceesarily “bad”? Is poart of the issue attributable to the fact that we had we’ve had a 13 man bullpen so TLR has had the luxury of swapping out more often? Does every team have two loogys?
Do the pitchers who have the highest LI “deserve” it? Motte doesn’t anymore, IMO. At this point I’d save Hawk for higher leverage than Motte, and some others.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why not let Motte not left in there to get those guys out?
He’s not saving anything by running Motte out there first.
15=/=25
Okay, wow.
Then why not leave Motte in there to get those guys out?
He’s not saving anything by running Motte out there first.
15=/=25
I would have probably left Motte out there for one more batter (who was a switch hitter)...
but it doesn’t bother me that he got the quick hook. Motte has been responsible for some big innings.
Also, don’t we have to figure out the “importance” of the game to assess the leverage? For example, given where we are with the Cubs, doesn’t each of these games where we’re within a game or two of them make a relatively large difference in playoff odds? Perhpas earlier in the year (or even later in the year), 10% odds wouldn’t justify using three relievers to get six outs, but given the relative importance of the game, it does now.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
how
is a win tomorrow anymore significant than a win april 17th?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Tell that to the Nats, Pirates, Mets, etc.
Games now, and whether they are won or lost, have a bigger effect on the percentage chance that the Cards make the playoffs. So, whether the first game of the year is won or lost may make no appreciable difference in making the playoffs but a game late in the year, in the middle of a tightly-bunched pennant race, may have a relatively large effect on playoff chances. It is of course dependent on context because for some teams, those early games were more “important” because they are completely out of the pennant race and their wins now make no difference.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 10, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Those two points aren't mutually exclusive
A bullpen can throw the fewest innings in the majors and still have relievers doing more work than they need to. This is, once again, a question as to TLR’s bullpen management and the purpose of guys like Hawksworth and Thompson in games where we have a sizable lead. If Thompson can’t protect a 4 run lead in the 8th than he needs to just be DFA’d now because we’re essentially playing with a 24 man roster at that point.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
still have relievers doing more work than they need to.
You’ve done nothing but speculate that this is so. If there’s a line between overuse (say, fatigue or increased chance of injury) and underuse (lack of sharpness, also potential injury), you’ve done nothing to show that any particular relievers fall into either category because of TLR’s bullpen management.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, I'll offer a completely
different reason not to manage the bullpen this way. Because baseball is entertainment, just like movies and symphonies, and no one buys a ticket to a ballgame to see TLR change pitchers 3 times in an inning of a game with a 4-run lead. Doesn’t it drive you nuts to have to WATCH an inning like that?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 9, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
but it does give me chance to grab another beer!
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 10, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait,
you mean you don’t have a mini-fridge built into your chair? 21st century, man!
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 10, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
the pen has pitched the fewest innings and at times we've had a 13-man pen...
and now we’re complaininjg about over-using the bullpen through warm-up pitches? Good God.
The bull pen usage was quite good today. Brought in MOtte in a relatively low leverage situation – tried to get a 1-2-3 inning out of him but the first guy hits a rope. So, bring in yuor LOOGY to get an important out and bring back a righty, KMAC to close out the inning and finish it out. JUst because it’s not a save situation, doesn’t mean the game is over. A four run lead with 6 outs left in the middle of the pennant chase isn’t an automatic win.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not an automatic win,
Chances Blake Hawksworth comes in and gives up 5 runs in two innings: 5%
Chances Motte/Miller/Mac give up five runs over two innings: 5%
15=/=25
that's a bit of an overstatement
in reality, it was probably (pulling the numbers from my arse) more like 3% vs 6%. With the caveat that if hawksworth got CLOSE to giving up 5 runs, those other guys could have still come in to pitch.
Remember, WPA is an empirically based estimate; it takes into account dusty baker trying to stretch arroyo into the 8th, mariano, etc. The guy throwing the ball makes a big difference.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
Actually, Miller is the only guy with a better FIP than Hawksworth,
but if you have actual numbers to justify that 3 and 6%, go ahead and throw them out there.
15=/=25
huh?
No idea what point you are trying to make here.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
it was arbitrary, as I said in the OP.
The point is, just because fangraphs says “5%”, does not mean that the odds of any given pitcher blowing the game is 5%.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
First, if there is any gain, it's a gain of bullshit percentage points at the cost of burning three relievers.
Second, I don’t think there is any gain.
15=/=25
The flip side of that
is that the batter matters as well and the Pirates are employing hitters on the low/left side of the probability curve, imo.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Umm..
I’d rather see Hawk than Motte (or maybe even Kmac, he walks to many for me), so the fact TLR may have saved Hawk for a potential higher leverage situation in the next two days bothers me not at all.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It also doesn't bother you that he used three relievers to get six outs.
The point is that replacement-level performance in that situation would have had a 90% chance of winning the game. There’s no reason for a short leash there.
15=/=25
It doesn't bother me when...
no one’s shown that using those three relievers to get those six outs will result in some concomitant downside risk over the next few days (or the rest of the season, for that matter). That’s the underlying assumption to your complaint, but it’s not obvious.
Is MIller unavailable tomorrow for loogy duties? Is he significantly worse when pitching back to back loogy outings over his career?
Is not having Kmac for tomorrow going to be important, if he’s in fact not available? Is Kmac necessarily a better option than Hawksworth if we need a non-Franklin rh option tomorrow? What are the odds that such a situation will even arise tomorrow? Is that greater than the “leverage” in this game?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Does it change much if we're judging whether he gives up 4 vs. 5 runs?
4 would seem to be the more important number.
In any event, I don’t assess that protecting Motte/MIller/Kmac for a potential higher leverage situation in the next few days (of course, one may not arise) is very important because I don’t assess that any of them are better than Hawk/Thompson or whoever else would have gone in.
Also, I’m assuming that the LI doesn’t change based on who’s leading…is that right? Even if that’s so, there is probably a good argument that it would make a difference to who a manager should choose based on which team is leading. I’d much rather see TLR use better relievers with a 4-run lead in the 8th inning than when the Cards are four runs down.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 9, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
from a purely statistical point of view. what good does that do us?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
glovewick, thank you
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Nice job K-Mac!!
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
alright, guys
let’s make this an embarrassment for the pilates
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Whew - that was close. Can you imagine being a Pirates' fan and having to replay the last two innings?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Or the last 17 years?
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
by Ted Glover on Aug 9, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't have to imagine it
I was here for T.E.S.S.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Fixed
Whew – that was close. Can you imagine being a Pirates’ fan and having to replay the last two innings?
remind me of the rule
If you enter with the tying run on deck – save situation?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 9, 2009 4:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yes
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
yeah but he won't finish the game in all likelihood so it becomes moot
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 9, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought it was
in the hole
nobody on, three run game is a save situation
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
For the 9th do you stay with Kmac?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Yes
Franklin pitched the last 2 days in a row.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure he starts, but
any whiff of trouble and Franklin gets the call.
And Franklin sucks.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
better go with Franklin
After all, he is a very good pitcher
*see its ok because I used this sarcasm font I just found out about. What a useless feature...
Whatever you did
It looks like taking a NES cart out of the nintendo with the power on.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No no no
You’ve got to keep the door open and put a second cartridge on top of the first one and hit the reset button twice.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to wonder how we're impacting kids now
without letting them creatively try to figure out how to get their game work… stupid reliable vidya games.
i like to throw them at my nephew
it improves his dexterity
Knock on wood
Are we seriously about to sweep the Pirates? When was the last time we swept the Pirates?
(Okay, it probably wasn’t that long ago. But man, the Pirates always seem to put up annoyingly good fight.)
The last time the Cardinals swept the Pirates in a three-game series
Was the final three games of the 2007 season.
by Michael_68_1999 on Aug 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
thurston in.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
close
same result though.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Aug 9, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
more likely to touch the bench. . . too bad he ever leaves it
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
not a chance
i’ll hold my breath on freese first
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
dont hold your breath
we would probably lose someone else to MEM for Glaus coming up (if he ever does)
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Aug 9, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
thurston sticks b/c he's our only LH PH.
I’d just as soon we call up mark hamilton or jay if we really just need someone for platoon split purposes. Thurston hasn’t really been hitting righties anyway. Craig would be a better option against pitchers of either handedness.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 9, 2009 4:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
August is winter in Australia
Ironically, that’s where Jay’s train of thought went 12 years ago.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
i live in Chicago
and watch a lot of Cubs games. That dude has been legit this season, every game I wonder when the wheels are going to fall off.
he doesn't have great stuff
but you can’t argue with how effective he’s been. really solid ROY candidate.
Hammel has been hit this afternoon
Eight hits in three-plus innings. He ate his Lucky Charms for breakfast.
by Michael_68_1999 on Aug 9, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I love the idea
of a Cubs team 2 games back going into Philly demoralized with their patch-up pitchers throwing.
Isn't that series in Wrigley?
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
I just read...
Sazarmardzjia is going in place of Z, not Marshall or the guy they called up. That’s problematic. He will get hammered in Philly.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
That's a shame
But he can throw the hell out of a football.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
twit of the month so far: joe strauss
‘Samardzija: is that foreignspeak for “brad thompson”?’
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 9, 2009 8:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Does pissed off Albert get to hit in the 9th?
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
The Cubs-Rox game so far has been a comedy of errors for the Flubs
They showed a replay of all of the defensive miscues in the game (there were already at least 3 or 4, and it’s only the 3rd inning), then they came back to the game, and Koyie Hill promptly threw the ball into center field to allow Fowler to go all the way to third, and then Wells threw a WP to allow him to score.
LOL Flubs.
I gotta watch this...
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Beam down the Cubs, Scottie. . ..
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Yes
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
that's why his jaw is so huge
It’s the transmitter.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
No
He uses Boog’s mustache as a transmitter
by cloistermaximus on Aug 9, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
greaaaaat. where is Khalil when you need him
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
There's the Thurston we know and can't stand!
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
they think that's his name.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Thursty equal excellence in all aspects of the game - basrunning, hitting, fielding
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I love Albert's micro-calculations.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
99.99!!!!
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Good fine for Thursty and the genius who put him in the game
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
not in time
wait, he’s out by a mile!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
LOL
Yeah, Jay Randolph in the booth now is like Willy Mays as a Met.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
How can Jay say not in time...
when he was all kinds of out at first? Does he even bother looking at the field?
he must also
be the ump in my slow pitch softball league
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by hoofhearted-pujols on Aug 9, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
okay kmac
i wanna watch the chubs. let’s do this
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
that'll do!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
That's a Winner!!
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
WOOHOO!
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
+11!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
...the thing about that French maid
is the air conditioner is running right behind her.
But I still wouldn’t eat that sandwich.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Not as much fun as Zeptember...
oh wait we’re not talking about Classic Rock stations… damnit I fail again.
hawpe
lead off double
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
quirky dimensions
strike again
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
for all the fail of Lake DeWitt
I am so glad our baseball stadium is shaped like a baseball stadium.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I like the 150 ft LF line
but a 440 ft CF with a well manicured hill.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
And the Ferris Wheel!!
Can’t forget the Ferris Wheel!!!
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
And the windmill
and the little castle where you have to putt across the drawbridge.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 9, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And a MOAT!!!!
With alligators!!!
And I can bring my wife…..Morgan Fairchild.
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
how many errors is that?
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Helton forgot it was Milton Bradley
and didn’t take third.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
he gave us heart attacks
Then he remembered it was the Pirates, and settled down. He was K’ing like a madman.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
fielding, too.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Beat like a rented mule early on
And the phrase ‘regression to the mean’ kept popping into my head. But he really settled down, made some good pitches and fielding plays, and overall it was a decent outing.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
thank god for that called strike a foot outside
once he figured out that was there, he rolled.
Ungood to have to count on umpiring incompetence to get people out, though.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
He started off really shaky
With bad curveballs and pitches left up in the zone.
Then, he settled down and looked good.
isn't that... again?
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I can hear the circus music now.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
But that wasn't Fuku's fault
that was a “Coors Field single”. Thhhpt, Cubs broadcasters.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 9, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
it's still fun to watch... three men enter, no one leaves
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Any news on Aramis Ramirez?
Saw he left with a sore shoulder last night and isn’t in the lineup today.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
They said...
it’s a pervasive pain that happens every time he swings. He’ll supposedly be in the lineup tomorrow. Z and Lilly back around the 17th. Until then it’s Harden/Gorzelanny/Smardjziza-Marshall/Wells/Dempster.
We have to win this division.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
It's definitely there for the taking
You know, as a baseball fan, I like watching Aramis Ramirez. I have to wonder, though, if his shoulder will be a persistent issue for the rest of his career, and if his power won’t be permanently affected, like what happened to Scott Rolen.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
I'd be surprised if he hits with much power
the rest of the season. That is a seious injury and the second time he sustained it. He might have a power drop in the future like Scott Rolen after his shoulder issues.
No worries, it just means we think alike
And you have my heartfelt condolences.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Do Cardinal fans wear a hat with feathers and a beak on the road
like the Cubbie fan that has the wrap around bear hat?
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
when I think "Colorado" and "bear suit"....
I don’t necessarily think of baseball.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That's just -- scary.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
Dude's a Furry.
“A subgroup of science fiction and fantasy fans who focus on cartoon animals, anthropomorphic animals, or human-animal hybrids.” — UD
They’re weird.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
they're just misunderstood.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
The Animals, naturally::
“Yes, I’m just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don’t let me be misunderstood.”
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
Wow -- Helton gets another double.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
LOL at the Cub propaganda...
Len Kasper: “If the Cubs don’t win today, there will be a tie in the loss column in the NL Central.”
Again, I hope no one is falling for this crap. What this means is that even if the Cubs were to keep pace with the Cardinals the rest of the way, they must win ALL FOUR of their extra games just to tie.
V, b.
Loss column argument =
Chewbacca defense
by purple_haze on Aug 9, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
hah
…ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
and
Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I’m a lawyer defending a major record company, and I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you’re in that jury room deliberatin’ and conjugatin’ the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.
If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!!
The defense rests.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
If the Cubs don’t win today, there will be a tie in the loss column in the NL Central.
That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with the standings? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with the standings! It does not make sense! Look at me. I’m a broadcaster for a Major League Baseball team, and I’m talkin’ about the loss column. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense!
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 9, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
HA!!
Rec
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Atta boy Pineiro
You had me worried, but then you struck out 4 Pirates in a row and never looked back.
The three headed monster remains
three-headed monster?
welley, motte, and thompson?
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
This place is getting frightening.
The Shining, furries, and now this.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
the mustaches have more power than we thought
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Mulder, Maroth, Kip Wells
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
okay i'll play
I’ll bang maroth, kill wells and marry mulder.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Aug 9, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Marquis, Wells, and Marquis' ego
Run Vince run! There's a tarp chasing you! Run! It's right behind you!
Cubs are really looking pathetic at the moment.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
Training wheels are off
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
moment century. FYP
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Correction noted.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
Yeeha.
Keep on keepin’ on, Rox.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
piniella got kicked out of the game early
and this is STILL helping his pythag vs real world record.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
Cubs are gonna have a tough time
coming back from this.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
And here comes gasoline on the fire
in the form of Aaron Heilman
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Higher, at least today
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Torch the bullpen
just in time for the Phillies!
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
Lou gets ejected, gameboard
is himself, the Cubs are getting crushed, and the Cards sweep the Bucs.
Yeah, all is definitely right with the world.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
Mad triumvirate Lou, Milton, and Zambrano
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
OT: Waiver Question
Lets say we claim a pitcher off of somebody. Lets say that we gave Khalil Greene to them in the trade. Can the trade not go through until Khalil has cleared waivers as well? I’m thinking the answers yet. Also do only players on the 25-man have to clear or is also the 40-man?
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
I think
that since we’re past the trade deadline, anyone traded must pass through waivers.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 9, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone has to clear...
I don’t think that would be a problem with Greene.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
Anybody else hear that Bosox claimed Cristian Guzman
off waivers today?
ESPN radio
Any word what Nats will do?
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
Beautiful
2 games up.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
Winner winner
rock cornish game hen dinner.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
That would be a bad situation for all involved I think
There’s a lot of animosity towards Mulder. Well, not him, but the situation with his injuries and the Player Who Shall Not Be Named. I have nothing but respect for him, because I never saw anyone bust his ass harder to try and come back, but it just wasn’t meant to be here, I s’pose.
I hope he catches on and has a long and prosperous career…just not here.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
BBTN snubs Boog
Boooooooooo. All three of those turns were better than Brandon effin Inge’s.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
now I'm mad
None of his throws are mentioned anywhere, covered anywhere, and not all of them are online. @%*&!#&%&
AVENGE BOOG
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
maybe it'll show up on the late edition, but I didn't see it
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That's excellent news!
I wonder what the plan for him is for the rest of the season. Take it easy in Palm Beach? Maybe move up to AAA? Or could he even get a callup in September?
He pitched 3 scoreless a week ago and had a good number of strikeouts if I recall. If he’s on the fast track back up, I assume he’ll get bumped up to Springfield for his next start.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
He's on the 40 man, IIRC
So a Sep call up isn’t out of the question. I’d like to see what he could do.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
He's also on the payroll
Since he is on the Major League DL, Jaime has been earning the major league minimum as well as major league service time. He was optioned to Memphis 8/27/08 but decided to have surgery shortly after, so I think the CBA rules reverted him back to the major league roster.
What to make of this quote
“I think he [Estabrook] read it exactly right, I think it was an intentional hit and there’s no doubt in my mind it came from the bench, and I really believe it didn’t come from the manager,” La Russa said. “Don’t ask me to expound on that. It was intentional, it came from the bench and it wasn’t the manager who ordered it.”
What the hell is Tony talking about?
he's not talking to us.
he’s talking to someone on the pirates.
by hangingfromatree on Aug 9, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The ghosts of
Lloyd McClendon and Gerald Perry?
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 10, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
cut the next part off
but Tony apparently thought it was ordered by the pitching coach. For some reason.
I gotta go pick someone up, but I wanted to leave this out for opinions...
I’m thinking of removing the Molina portion of my sig. I mean, my name is already Yadi2, so it’s not like there won’t be a shout-out … what do you guys think? Keep it or dump it?
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
KEEP IT!
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I want to add a Boog-ism
But that makes the sig way too long already. And I’m kinda pissed at Yadi. [ponders]
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I understand how you feel but
They don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. Neither should you.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Aug 10, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
No no, keep it.
It is one of my fav. sigs on here and I re-read it on a regular basis. Because it is true and it keeps the fear in me.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Aug 10, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like the
Boog stuff interfering with your Molina sig.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
shinfday
only twelve more days until the weekend!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
New Elias ranking estimates out:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18348553/Rankings-080909
- Rick Ankiel – Just shy of Type B status. Was dropping like a rock, has bounced back slightly. Prediction: will NOT make Type B, WILL be offered arb, may or may not be back.
- Joel Pineiro – Rocketing up the charts is just shy of Type B as well. Welly is the lowest ranked “B” so that will help the cause. Prediction: WILL make Type B, WILL be offered arb, probably won’t be back in a “Matt Morris, 2 year/$12 million, take it or leave it” type deal. For the record, Jocketty played that well. Matt Morris is on the Pirates payroll THIS YEAR.
Mark DeRosa – On the cusp of Type A. There are four guys ahead of him and two are Scott Rolen and Troy Glaus. Both will fall, obviously, with Rolen suffering from “concussion-like” symptoms. Prediction: WILL make Type A, WILL be offered arb, will likely be back in a deal we’ll live to regret.
Others: Holliday a solid Type A; Trever Miller is a Type A; Welly, LaRue, Greene, and Glaus will be nothing, nothing, nothing, and Type B, respectively, but of course won’t be offered arb.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
no Rolen applause situation tomorrow or tuesday or wednesday
looks like Scotty is out of action until Friday
That's a shame...
But I’d be lying if I said I was upset to see Adam Rosales starting all 3 games at 3rd.
V, b.
relatives are in town, and they're Reds fans
So good news… game for me!
Bad news… it’s a Welley start.
Boog had better be playing, man, or I’m gonna be drowning my sorrows…
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Post Dispatch cannot figure out how to spell Brendan
Ryan.
RAAAAAHHHH AVENGE BOOG
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
You are just havin' a rough day, aren't you?
My prescription: more franklins.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 10, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
at the time, it was too late for franklins
But it is a new day, my friend.
AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
to be fair
that’s probably the AP, not the PD
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Aug 10, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to know the total number of pitches thrown by National League bullpens
because this is getting absurd. Preplanned pitching changes to use 4 guys is wasting time. If you don’t feel the guy you send out there can protect a 4 run lead, don’t have him on the team.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 10, 2009 1:23 AM EDT reply actions
That doesn't mean the pen hasn't been mismanaged.
Dennys Reyes has 26.0 IP and 52 appearances.
He’s the guy lefty who “you can leave him in to face right-handers”. Right. As long as you’re leaving him in to serve up a 4 pitch walk.
Motte is the next in line with 49 appearances and 39 innings. Talk about yanking a guy’s chain. If TLR doesn’t trust Motte to do the BS mop-up, why is he on the roster?
If the pen was performing well under TLR’s micromanagement, that would be one thing, but we only have two people who are above average right now and one of them is the freaking LOOGY.
15=/=25
And that's without mentioning the 13 pitcher catastrophe,
the Brad “headhunter” Thompson situation (and by situation I mean he sucks). And it’s the back end of the rotation, but Todd Wellemeyer is also somehow still on this team despite the legitimate performance of Boggs.
15=/=25
I wasn't defending the management of the bullpen...
HL said he would like to know the pitches thrown by NL bullpens, and the Cardinal bullpen has the fewest innings in the league. That would seem to indicate a low number of total pitches thrown. I don’t know how I came off as commenting on the management of the bullpen.
V, b.
HL was also commenting on the planned pen usage and on Jason Motte specifically-
that he shouldn’t be on the team of LaRussa wouldn’t trust him with a 4 run lead.
15=/=25
That wouldn't tell the story
because if they are coming in, throwing 8 pitches to 1 batter and giving up a walk…they don’t even count towards the inning.
We lead in appearances but trail in innings pitched, so I wonder if we are throwing a ton of pitches.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 10, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions
For example
Our relievers have faced the 3rd fewest batters if all relievers in MLB baseball but have the 9th most appearances.
In 331 games (appearances) we’ve faced 1309 batters. That works out to facing 3.6 batters a game? No wonder we have so few innings pitched.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 10, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
But doesn't that just mean Tony uses more pitchers for fewer outs?
I’m just confused, because once the starter is out of the game, the rest of the outs are going to be credited to the bullpen regardless of appearances. So it doesn’t matter if you use 7 relievers to get 9 outs, or one reliever to get 9 outs, the bullpen is still credited with 3 IP. The appearances are inflated, but that’s it.
They also have the 3rd fewest walks and the the fewest strikeouts, so I don’t see how it would all equate to an inordinate amount of pitches thrown.
Again, Im not defending the management of the bullpen at all, I just don’t see what you mean with the pitches thrown.
V, b.
Basically, appearances count for something.
Even if a pitcher throws 9 pitch innings three days in a row, he probably isn’t available the fourth. Pitchers have to warm up every time they come out, and despite what some people think, warm up pitches are counted by coaches and regimented. In general our pitchers throw very few pitches (lowest in the league despite as many as four games more than some teams), but Tony has more multiple-reliever innings than any other manager.
It’s not clear that this has or will have any effect of performance, but it doesn’t seem like it’s making the pen any better: Most of our relievers are below average, and the two above average relievers are the ones who have the most consistent roles (Closer and real LOOGY). More than anything it’s just frustrating, because there isn’t really a justifiable reason to run three pitchers out for six outs with a four run lead, even if it isn’t causing a specific, immediate harm.
15=/=25
I get that...
And again, I was in no way commenting on the management of the bullpen and how it has affected their performance. I was imply disagreeing with the thought that the bullpen has thrown a large number of pitches. I agree that Tony uses way too many relievers a good deal of the time, and I understand that warmup pitches are included. But I just couldn’t see how they would have thrown all that many pitches as a group.
V, b.
There is the issue of individual cases.
K-Mac, for instance, has thrown quite a few innings and the most pitches of anyone in our pen and ranks in the company of league leaders, but he’s 200 pitches behind walk-machine Marmol, the jamster Kevin Gregg. Like I said, I don’t think there’s any substantial evidence that this is hurting us, but let’s be even less like the Cubs if we can.
15=/=25
When our relievers enter the game
they are 16th in average leverage.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 10, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Just so you know, we are last in pitches thrown.
We’re actually over 100 pitches behind the Rox despite only being 1 inning behind them. Probably a result of our lower K numbers, fewer intentional walks, and lower BABIP.
15=/=25
That's what I've been looking for
Good. So we are throwing 4852 pitches in 331 appearances or 14.6 pitches per appearance. That doesn’t seem too bad.
Or, if you do it in relation to innings pitched it is 4852 pitches in 300.1 innings or 16 pitches per inning. Just about right.
I just wonder what the relation is between use and appearances here. Our starting rotation is throwing more innings than most teams in baseball. What does this say about the use of the bullpen? Is the fact that we have had the fewest innings available for our relievers to pitch but yet they’ve made 9th most appearances a good thing or a bad thing?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 10, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I think it's bullshit.
If nothing else, it’s annoying meddling, but it makes our bullpen less flexible and like I said above, warm up pitches count for something.
My favorite number of the night is 15417- our pitching staff has thrown the fewest pitches in the league despite our four games played surplus over some teams.
15=/=25
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