Pitching to Contract
by DanUpBaby on Aug 31, 2009 6:00 AM EDT
925 comments
It hasn't come up, because his ERA is still rapidly approaching one, but the motion to rename the black part of home plate the Ryan Franklin Zone has begun to run out of steam—since the all-star break he's struck out seven and walked seven in eighteen innings, and in August (where he's not allowed a run in eleven innings) those numbers are four and six. His BB/9 for the season, 2.3, is coming up on twice as high as it was in his first season with the Cardinals. His BABiP is .211.
I bring this up just to say that I don't have a major problem with the Ryan Franklin extension—he's been great this year, and an additional $4 million in 2011 isn't going to make or break this team. But it just seems so inessential—he's already signed past this stereotypical Contract Year, and despite his wavering command his value is never going to be higher than it is right now—that I'm not sure of the benefit, except to boost the morale of a guy who should really be having the time of his baseball life anyway.
I'm not going to get mad about it. Of all the guys in the bullpen to be mad about—well, he doesn't register.
Meanwhile, in The Offseason: Dave Duncan won't come back, unless he does. There's a lot to take out of this story, because there's a lot of divergent story hung on one spindly little clothesline—Dave Duncan's future in St. Louis. Let's try this with bullet points.
1. Dave Duncan is not happy about Chris Duncan. This should and will surprise nobody; he wasn't happy when it happened, and he's probably less happy now that Chris is unemployed going into the end of the minor league season. Strauss treats this thread as the lead item, and it might be the best symbol of the disconnect that's grown between the dugout and the front office, but it seems almost secondary to the question of Duncan's continued employment with the Cardinals; it's symptomatic of something that's not the main complaint.
It's clear that neither Older Duncan nor La Russa feel that Younger Duncan was treated with the respect due him on the way out (or while he played), although Duncan's contention that he doesn't "know of any player in this town who went through what he experienced" makes this Ray Lankford fan do a brief double take. But even as Duncan maintains that his decision will be personal and not professional, he does so based on an event that sprang from his new, subordinate professional role—bullet point two:
2. Dave Duncan is not happy about the Faberge Egg Syndicate. This will come as a shock to those who associate the Clay Mortensens and Lance Lynns of the Cardinals' recent drafts with Duncan's pitch-to-no-strikeouts philosophy, but apparently Duncan is no longer a major force in the team's organizational pitching philosophy. Pull quote:
Since Mozeliak's hiring, player development has become more autonomous under vice president of scouting and player development Jeff Luhnow. A number of Duncan's confidantes, including former minor-league pitching coordinator Mark Riggins, have resigned or been removed. Duncan now isn't consulted on either potential player acquisitions or organization instruction. Communication between the two sides is scattershot, at best.
"It's changed the last three years," Duncan said. "We have our way of doing things up here, and they do things their way in the minor leagues. We're not involved. That's the way it is."
As the proud owner of an Anthony Reyes jersey I can't say I'm crushed by this idea, but not consulting Duncan at all on player acquisition—particularly in mid-season—seems like a needlessly acrimonious, inefficient way of doing things.As pitching coaches go, Duncan is more a Jocketty than a Mozeliak; his "thing", the reason he's here, is taking a certain kind of acquisition, a Woody Williams or a Ryan Franklin, and turning them into momentarily superb pitchers.
He shouldn't have veto power, but employing a pitching coach with his own philosophy is an implicit concession, to some degree, to his philosophy. From the new front office's reluctance to do that we can infer something else—if he's not being pushed out, they won't be that concerned if he thinks he is.
His use of "we"—that could be La Russa and Duncan or Duncan and his protege, Marty Mason—is interesting because of the next point in the article:
3. Duncan and La Russa aren't a package deal. It's La Russa who says this, not Duncan, which makes me think that La Russa's return in 2010 is a little more certain than we previously thought:
Duncan intends to coach next season, whether in St. Louis or elsewhere. Any perception that he and La Russa are intrinsically linked is incomplete.
"I've told him before that our personal relationship never stands in the way of the professional," La Russa said. "Nothing has changed, and nothing will change about that."
Likewise, La Russa believes a pull exists due to those returning next season from the current pitching staff. He dismisses any suggestion that his longtime ally has reached an indelible decision.
"I know when it comes down to making a decision, Dave has tremendous personal and professional interest invested in the guys here and the guys here next year," La Russa said. "He values that deeply."
Later on in the article La Russa says, while discussing the new organizational pitching philosophy, that some of the new ideas are different from what Dave—no "we" involved—believes. I'd be interested to see who gets custody of Marty Mason if Duncan leaves but La Russa stays. Mason's the official team shadowy figure; once every year or so people who like to think they have inside information claim that he's the real mastermind behind the Duncan Pitching Philosophy, and even the less conspiratorially inclined are aware that he seems like Duncan's natural successor. But if Duncan leaves, instead of retiring, he might go with him—given the organization's reluctance to commit (at least to the degree Duncan wants) to their philosophy, that might be the best thing for all concerned.
What this article confirms, more than anything else, is 4. The lines of communication are down. Wainwright had a great Dave Duncan game yesterday; he got a ton of groundballs, and he was relentless about putting his fastball in the bottom third of the strike zone. Look at this PitchF/X chart:
The last few batters he faced before he ran out of gas, all at once, seemed like a perfect explication of the Dave Duncan philosophy—he avoided going up in the zone entirely, he stuck to the corners at the middle of the plate, but most of all he concerned himself with firing fastballs into that bottom third.
But Wainwright is a (somewhat rare) example of how well things worked when a modicum of flexibility was shown on both sides. He's thrown a curveball as his best pitch ever since he was a Braves farmhand; it's not a prototypical Duncan pitch, but he's able to combine it with that fastball—the vast majority of which at least register, based on movement, as two-seamers—to get strikeouts and groundballs, and to avoid big innings when his fastball command falters. He and Reyes came up through the system at the same time—in hindsight Reyes's injury problems may have been inevitable, but in one case a player's strengths were supplemented; in another they were sublimated.
It's a shame that this kind of cooperation seems increasingly unlikely to happen in the future. As both sides move toward a split there's no room, between the Duncan faction and the Luhnow faction, to work together; maybe it couldn't have happened, but it might have been worth a try.
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good thing divorce lawyers aren't lumberjacks
Marty Mason would be split down the middle.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What do we do about the shih-tzu?
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
joint custody
ba dum ching
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That article was interesting
Probably more info on Dave Duncan than we have received in 10 years. I don’t react the same way as you though.
First, I think the most interesting part is his criticism of the training staff which has been aired here. The P-Ds wilingness to print this speaks volumes about the long list of unexplained injuries and begs for a follow-up story.
Second, I think it is probably a good thing that Duncan has little or nothing to do with draft picks. I’m all for letting the professional scounts and player development people assess raw talent — I’m not sure why Duncan or La Russa think they have any bonafides for such analysis.
Third, does he really have no say in mid season pickups? I’m sure I remember LaRussa saying that Duncan was a big advocate of picking up Wellemeyer. Wasn’t Kip Wells a Duncan desire as well? I would be surprised and disappointed if the FO is not pulsing LaDunc on what players they like on other teams from time to time, but again the art of trading and all the issues with contracts etc are really out of their realm.
Fourth, on organizational instruction, I would think Duncan should have more say in pitcher development at AAA and maybe AA. Seems counter-productive not to have him involved. Question here for me is: did he lose input into the process or did he lose a good friend (Riggins)? Duncan may be mixing one thing with another based on his reaction to the Chris Duncan issue.
Fifth, this sounds an awful lot like LaRussa’s complaints about direction last year. That seems to have modified. I’m guessing big Dave is looking for a little love. Hopefully MO is smart enough to reel him back in.
Plenty of fodder here for those who think they deliberately ruined Reyes, but my guess is that this is all part of LaDunc trying to reassert control of the team with DeWItt while they are 20 games over .500 and largely untouchable. These guys like complete control.
Just win
by The Duke on Aug 31, 2009 7:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why don't we just
bring in Halladay in the off-season? LaRussa’s happy now that we have Holliday.
/partial sarcasm
by stlfan on Aug 31, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't agree
with your lead.
It wasn’t an ‘interesting’ article; it was an appalling farrago of unsubstantiated conjecture, nudge-wink innuendo, quotes that seemed to mean something but didn’t quite, month-old ‘news’ … and a few genuinely interesting tidbits that might have been worked up into stories if Strauss had been more concerned with doing his homework and less with creating a sensational flashy Sunday headline.
We learned a lot more about Dave Duncan from Burwell’s 8/28 ‘side session’ story. What this gossip-column piece tells us about DD is that the man does his damnedest to be courteous and responsive to the media people who want to exploit him to create controversy. Anybody remember Kevin Slaten?
by alberich on Aug 31, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ya
St. Louis media, they’re real intense. Aside from the Slaten incident, DD couldn’t find a more docile set of lambs to report on him.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Aug 31, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lambs or lions isn't the point
Journalistic competence is the point. Would you put dreck like this on FR? The corrective to lazily and complacently regurgitating what the org sees fit to deliver is not lazily and complacently throwing a bunch of quotes into a heap – it’s going out and finding and documenting a story.
by alberich on Aug 31, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's kind of my attitude, as well.
There wasn’t much story there, just a louder voicing of the whispers.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Aug 31, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Media
I’m no fan of Strauss, in particular, and I think his editor should refrain from printing pieces straight out of the LaDunc PR department. That said, the calling out of the training staff is very interesting, and it’s somethng that I think just about every member of this community would like to do. That said, the other interesting point is that Chris Duncan refused to go to a checkup because he was scared of what it might reveal, yet it’s the training staff’s fault that his injuries went undiagnosed. And then TLR is praising this type of behavior after running Rolen out of town for a tiff that sprung from this type of behavior. This is just bizarre “reporting.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Calling out" the training staff?
What power does the training staff have? If they have motivations that are anything but professional concern for the well-being of the players, doesn’t it stand to reason that those motivations arise from the training staff being pushed in one direction or another by the coaches or the front office?
I don’t get why they should be the villains in this story, given that it’s much more likely they are pawns.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Incompetence
Whether justified or not, the Rolen/Mulder/Duncan/Edmonds littany was just frustrating.
However, in Chris Duncan’s case, I don’t know that they were to blame. It seems, from this story, that Chris may be the one on whose shoulders blame should rest. If Dave is calling out the trainers, I think it speaks to his irrationality on the subject.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan playing through a sports hernia when it was clear he was next to worthless was pretty bad
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Especially* in the context of the season,
where we weren’t going to benefit in any way from it (despite the late-season, Ankiel-fuelled charge).
I’m a little fuzzy on what everyone knew and when they knew it with the hernia and it becoming a double-herniea. So, I’ll ask for someone to hash that out for me. As for the neck problems, I believe this was late in being diagnosed because Duncan didn’t tell anyone. Is that accurate?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not the training staff's fault
that’s the managers. If the player tells the training staff “I’m fine.” What are they to do? They can be skeptical about the guy saying he isn’t in pain, and they may know he is in fact in pain, but if the guy is lying about his injury, then it is all on the player and manager.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Aug 31, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is it the manager's fault?
If the player is lying?
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the implication
is that the manager knows the player is lying and that the manager actually cultivates a culture of toughness that encourages this type of behavior. I don’t remember the exact quote, but TLR essentially said that he has even more respect for Chris Duncan if he was concealing the extent of his pain/injury. That is just kind of sick.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 31, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess.
We all applaud players who suck it up and play though pain. If they don’t, they’re labled soft (Rich Harden comes to mind, so does a young J.D. Drew). So, there’s a fine line.
Basically, all players play hurt, but you don’t play injured.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, what he said
LaRussa would know before the training staff would know that DD’s boy was hurting. Dave would know that his son was in pain. He should have mentioned something to the staff if he wanted something done about it.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Aug 31, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pardon me for asking
but what story did you read?
dave duncan missed a game last week, his first in who knows how many years. his son went through a messy divorce just recently and, oh by the way, his contract is up at the end of the season. the time is now to write a story like this.
the quotes from duncan were very interesting and let us, the readers, know a lot about what he is thinking. up until know, we never knew how dave felt on the record about the chris situation. also, it’s always been assumed that dave and tony were a package deal and we learn that that is not the case.
i really don’t know what you were looking for in an article. i thought it was solid and well done.
by averagejoe on Aug 31, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...who got divorced?
And if you didn’t know how Dave felt about the Chris situation until JOE STRAUSS REPORTS IT, we weren’t paying attention.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his contract is up?
there’s an option for 2010. Tony’s the one who’s contract is totally up at the end of the season
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He and Tony have the same deals
mutual options.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not according to Cots. it says no option on Tony
it has nothing on Dave though
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're not "real" options
like the players have. Just “hey you want to come back?” “Yep!” type deals.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think those are called.
Mutual Options.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh...
..he said farrago. Now I’m hungry…
:=8/
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Aug 31, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARey isn't the only one they "ruined"
see Chris YP Perez & Jason Apple Sauce Motte. why he can work with Carp & Adam, and totally fuck up those three is beyond me. i just don’t get it.
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by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
theory: maybe it's Mason.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen success
was thinking about trying to prove/disprove a theory around this. Dunc is known for success with starters and it appears his game planning is a huge part of that success. Has anyone looked at Dunc’s bullpens over the years to see if any trends exist as compared to other bullpens or league average bullpens. Eck and good Izzy might mask some things too.
by ubeddie on Aug 31, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they stated flat-out that Mason was in charge of the 'pen, one game.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Motte seems to be ruined more by opposing hitters
than anything Duncan is doing. If those are 98 mph two-seamers he’s throwing, I stand corrected.
by DanUpBaby on Aug 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we might be talking about breaking Motte's crazy.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably totally confirmation bias
But it seems when he actually has his top end 96-99 velocity he’s been serviceable (still not touching 100/101 like last year but whatever), but he’s been down around 91-95 in more than a few outings and he’s got no shot if he’s anywhere near 92 mph.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah what's up with that?
one day he can’t hit the upper 90’s & the next day he can. i wonder why?
and Dan, you don’t find it at all surprising that when Dave gets it in his head he has throw down in the zone, suddenly the opposition can hit him?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wainwright and Carpenter
are much better pitchers than those other guys?
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we're not bringing up Piñeiro?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swear he's an evil twin.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've now seen this repeated several times.
how did the cards “fuck up” perez?
ML 09: 4.15
memphis 09: bb/9- 6.75
ML 08: 4.75
memphis 08: 4.15
mem/spfld 07: 6.71
QC 06: 6.04
where do you see a pitcher who has control of his pitches? what is he doing differently that dave has changed? it seems like he’s never had good control. other than that, his k rates are the same, his GB rates seem the same. what did dave fuck up?
and as for motte, i’ll just echo what danup said below.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very true YP has control issues
but when Dave got in his head they became much much worse. look at his numbers now that he’s up here in the mistake by the lake. dude is flat out dealing. is it a coincidence? it’s a hell of a one if it is.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his fragments in St. Louis
as tom pointed out, are his second and third lowest walk rates at any one stop prior to arriving in Cleveland. Perez has always had control problems, and he probably always will.
I will agree that Perez was poorly utilized in St. Louis, and that La Russa and the Cardinals failed to notice McClellan’s control problems at the same time they were hiding Perez for his. But his numbers are more or less what could have been expected from a guy adjusting to MLB pitching for the first time—in fact, control-wise they’re better than could have been expected.
by DanUpBaby on Aug 31, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chris faced 75 batters in cleveland.
pitcher bb/9 stats don’t stabilize until after about 550 PAs.
it’s the same kind of coincidence that we see all the time in baseball. it shouldn’t seem strange.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so if he's still pitching well after he faces 150 batters, what then?
is it because he’s no longer under Dave?
i’m not saying Dave is the reason for these three guys problems. not at all. i’m just saying i think it’s logical to believe he is one of the reasons why they have had problems. YP has never had great control, Motte really does need an off speed pitch, and ARey had control issues too. do you think it’s possible they will all be more successful with a different pitching coach? because i do. and that’s not a shot at Dave, i just think it’s a proven fact he works better with pitchers who are different then these three.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who knows? if he improves, is it because of something dave wasn't doing?
because of something a coach or another player in cleveland did? because he’s another year older and wiser?
but i think it’s illogical to look at a guy who had a 6+ BB/9 in the minors, who lowered his BB/9 during his tenure with the cards, and say that duncan made him worse. same thing with motte. plenty of people said a one-pitch wonder is going to get hit around in the bigs in a way in which he wouldn’t at memphis.
i’m not going to say that duncan is at fault for either motte or perez’s struggles, unless somebody puts some solid research together that shows that what’s being taught isn’t working. for instance, if a pitch f/x analysis showed that motte gets a ton of swinging strikes with high, hard fastballs, but gets hit around when he throws them low, that might be evidence. but i don’t see a basis for what you’re saying for motte or perez.
you also just have to keep in mind that there are a large number of pitching prospects who, for whatever reason, just don’t make the jump to the majors. that’s true everywhere.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 19 IP with Cleveland
he has 22Ks and 4BBs and hasn’t been scored on since 7/7. I guess he’s just lucky.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 31, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
19 IP means about jack shit, gdm.
see what about twice as much time on the mound means.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will one day fritz
one day,,,,
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by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i didn't even say that! givemi did!
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by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, i get you guys all confuzzled.
its the “g” and the “m.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you were thinking it though!
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 31, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GET OUT OF MY HEAD
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by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While 19 IP does (probably) mean jack shit,
the author of that article completely misuses the term “variance” and then (incorrectly) claims to demonstrate it with a hand-picked population over a cherry picked period of performance. It’s entertaining, but definitely not some kind of trump card.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
by SleepyCA on Aug 31, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, because Motte was definitely polished when he arrived
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rent the U-Haul
If Duncan is speaking in the open about this then he is gone. No way you can complain about your boss outloud and keep your job. For all the praise Dunc is given for the Woody’s there are failures like Wells. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a good/great pitching coach. Just that he is a coach. And even that is a little inaccurate. Dunc is more of a “life coach” then a true “mechanical, your arm is in an inverted obtuse triangle when you throw the knuckle curve” guy.
To me the questions are: Who gets Dunc’s job? What’s Marty’s contract situation like?
No Geometry was harmed in the typing of this post.
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Aug 31, 2009 7:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
john smoltz?
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
by SleepyCA on Aug 31, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can Carp & Smoltz be player coaches?
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by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am all for it
prepare the luggage!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you would know when somebody wasn't doing their job,
the next time they pitched they would have a black eye.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be less afraid about who gets Duncan's job
Be more afraid about where Duncan goes after this.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 7:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Leo?
I’ll compare Dunc leaving to Leo. Leo was just as respected and mentioned in the same breath as Dunc in terms of greatness. When Leo left the Braves I made it a point to try and follow the Orioles (what kind of loser bird is that any way?) to see the “Leo Affect”. I don’t think Leo made a difference there. And I don’t think Dunc would lead Kerry Woods to win 30 games.
Misusing affect and effect for 35 years!
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Aug 31, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm more concerned
about Duncan staying in-division.
Talk about a scouting report.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
Pitch f/x is just as good.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 31, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure it is.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Sep 1, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds?
I could see Jocketty pulling him in…
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If so
then that’s probably evidence that Dunc is past his prime.
The Reds have a long-standing problem with hiring yesterday’s hero and finding out that yesterday’s hero is not tomorrow’s. May this problem continue … although all else equal, I’d prefer they not hire Dunc.
by StanTheManFan on Aug 31, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan and Baker on the same staff?
Talk about two guys with nothing in common. If Jocketty is bringing in Dave, he might as well hire a top hitting coach as a manager and get rid of Dusty, since those two will knock heads constantly over pitching. Dusty isn’t smart enough to just leave Dave alone with his pitchers, imo.
Also, Dusty won’t take the heat for Dave like Tony does. Tony takes all the blame when a pitching change doesn’t work out, when the staff is carrying 13 pitchers for what seems like no reason, for using Todd Wellemeyer well past when he’s been effective. Dave takes all the credit when a Woody Williams comes in and pitches great or when he turns around a Joel Piniero. I don’t understand why he would want to leave St. Louis, where he’s revered and protected from scrutiny. I think this is a crotchety old man upset about change in the organization and how his son was treated — when he would have been treated worse by just about every other organization.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very true
I didn’t take Baker into account, but I could see Jocketty hiring him anyway. I also agree the grumpy old man syndrom has set in with Duncan and it now seems every little thing is bothering him. I also wonder if Chris is more hurt than we know, if that “personal” day was to see a doctor with Chris or something. It has me worried that the playing time did more damage to Chris than we know and Dave is trying to find someone to blame when he knows there really is noone to blame.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris
The part that was interesting to me was the talk about a “lack of respect” rather than chris being cut in and of itself. It’s entirely possible that dave understands the org can cut players, trade them, etc, but that he’s upset by the uncerimonious way they did it. Tony and Dave are old baseball guys who are sticklers for “respect”. this shines through in how tony handles retribution for hbp, making young players “earn their spots”, and in this case with the handling of chris duncan. for example, tony mentions he has MORE respect for chris because he was playing through injuries that were hurting his play without telling the training staff. Yet, this was a major negative impact on the team’s performance.
Viewing the world through this prism, i think tony has very little over which to complain. the FO showed him and the players respect by going out and getting the player TLR thought would protect pujols and filled a middle infield hole with a pricey, successful veteran. That shows commitment and respect
Dunc, though, can probably still feel slighted.
by spencegrif on Aug 31, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still fail to see what the org did wrong with Chris Duncan
it’s not like they outrighted him or sent him to the minors (which his play deserved) after he sucked for like TWO AND A HALF YEARS and played through most of that period carrying (and apparently somewhat hiding) an injury that meant he wasn’t productive.
Chris got traded in what turned out to be a great move for the org. If they dumped him for a spare part and then later waived the spare part (like with Brian Barton, who was actually better than Duncan last year) I could see cause for argument, but they got a FREE Julio Lugo, who’s turned out to be a very serviceable player (and worth more in his month-and-a-bit with the club than Duncan has been for quite some time).
Chris Duncan was a terrible, terrible baseball player for quite a long time, and had an injury (and surgery) of the sort that routinely ends a pro athlete’s career. I can’t see why trading him for a useful piece was in any way “disrespectful”. Players get traded all the time.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 5:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"when he would have been treated worse by just about every other organization"
so true, I bet DD is really pissed about how Boston treated the boy.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I really don't get
Duncan has to be able to look at the situation objectively. Boston had basically no reason to cut him from AAA other than that they figured he’d never be a major leaguer. They cut him in a month. How can he be pissed at Cards management for trading BabyDunc when he wasn’t even good enough to stick in fucking AAA? An ounce of objectivity would be useful.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EXACTLY
BOS booted him, putting him into that oh-so-scrubby status with Lugo, aka “a guy who’s DFA’d and not even on a major league roster” (paraphrasing here).
You’d think you’d be a little more aware of how your actions/words look when you’re such a public figure. This is absurd.
by goodymobb on Aug 31, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scouting report?
I believe it would say
“MOAR SINKERS”
by dcfcblues on Aug 31, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hay Now...
….no need to dis on Balti-moo, udderwise known as Balmer and Charm City.. Great baseball town, great baseball tradition, suffered through a lousy owner. If it weren’t for the Cards, I’d be an Orioles fan!
:=8)
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Aug 31, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Leo Mazzone a great pitching coach or did he just get to coach Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz in their primes?
Same for Bobby Cox
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great players and great coaches usually have one thing in common...
they are on the same teams…
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Trey Hillman is some manager
Zack Greinke is so lucky
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before he left Atlanta...
…he was the subject of a chapter in Roger Kahn’s book on pitching entitled The Head Game. I cannot recall the exact quote, but Mazzone did say something to the effect that he’d see what kind of a coach he really was when he didn’t have the greatest pitching triumvirate of this generation to work with.
Now to be fair, this cuts the other way too…if you have a trash pitching staff, I’m not sure how much the coach can do. Personally, I think both Mazzone and Duncan have had, on balance, positive and beneficial impacts on their respective clubs, but they can only do so much. Players have to get you the rest of the way.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 31, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be afraid of where Duncan goes
if he takes the Cardinal infield with him.
I've made a huge tiny mistake.
by the red baron on Aug 31, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry Red, Az won't let him kidnap Skippy
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more I think about it the more I read it as Duncan
not being smart enough to get mad at TLR when Larussa kept putting the kid in the lineup. His problems are pretty much solved if someone who doesn’t suck is on the lineup card.
Or hell maybe TLR is who he’s who he’s REALLY mad at. He’s just being sneaky.
by sdrone on Aug 31, 2009 9:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You might be on to something.
And it’s telling that TLR says he was not “fully aware” of the extent of Chris’ injuries. Which I think is utter horseshit and speaks to poor communication between Dunc Sr. and TLR, and/or a manager who only sees what he wants to.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Several questions
Maybe even ethical ones. What is the obligation of the training staff to alert the manager of a player’s injuries? Reading the article, it seems as if Duncan wouldn’t have gone to even the training staff for treatment, but, nonetheless, if a trainer believes a player to be injured yet still playing and, in doing so, risking a worsening of the injury, shouldn’t they tell the manager? Furthermore, if Chris Duncan never told anyone he was hurting, then how on earth is it the training staff’s fault for not protecting him?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New Management
I know TLR is having the time of his life this season. It seems the least stressful of any season since 2005 (no extended losing streaks ala 06, no DUI/team loss ala 07) and they are winning the close games. If we were to win it all this year I could easily see Tony call it quits and ending on a high note. If we don’t I am not sure if he might just come back for another season.
Assuming Tony does retire and Duncan finds a new job with or without Mason. Who takes over? I know these discussions have happened before so this is nothing new but who are your prime, Manager, Hitting and Pitching coach candidates? You can expand to bench, 1st and 3rd if you feel the need.
Manager: Oquendo
Hitting Coach: Big Mac ;) but in all seriousness Walker or Edmonds I think would be good
Pitching: Mason or Matheny (though I like him in the Bullpen, and Carp would be great at this at some point in time down the road)
I also wonder if Ozzie will take a role on the field if Tony is gone. Lots of things about this team will probably change if/when Tony decides to leave.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt we need a collection
of ex-Cardinals for these jobs. How do we know Mike Matheny has any concept of how to be a pitching coach? Shouldn’t we look for an ex-pitcher for that job?
I know it won’t happen because of the way his first tenure here ended, but I think Mitchell Paige did a fine job as hitting coach.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm
Shouldn’t we look for an ex-pitcher for that job?
Catchers, specifically defensive minded ones like Matheny who prided himself on handling a pitching staff, make very good pitching coaches. Dave Duncan was a catcher, not a pitcher.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Often the best coaches didn't play that position
That way they have some perspective.
Also, at the major level the pitching coach’s main responsibility is approach-related stuff; what to throw to who when.
Very little mechanical stuff is accomplished, or even discussed, at the major league level.
Well, I'm from Texas and my mama taught me to not piss all over myself.
by thepainguy on Aug 31, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Duncan one of the only,
if not THE only, non-pitcher to be a pitching coach in MLB today?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but it shows that being a pitcher isn't critical (or even good)
Well, I'm from Texas and my mama taught me to not piss all over myself.
by thepainguy on Aug 31, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm. Interesting, then,
that 29 of the 30 pitching coaches in the majors right now are ex-pitchers, a trend that I’ll bet has held for decades.
To say that catchers make very good pitching coaches would seem to rely on a very, very small sample size.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think catchers make good pitching coaches
Duncan biggest talent is in calling games
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 31, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that there is a massive sample,
of pitchers being terrible pitching coaches. Please do not spout this conventional wisdom.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Aug 31, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, think about what you're saying.
There is also a massive sample of pitchers being great pitching coaches. The key word in both cases is “massive.”
Ain’t nothing massive about the number of catchers as PCs. Is Dunc a good PC? Yes. Does that prove anything? Not at this sample size it doesn’t.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're arguing from ignorance-
just because we don’t know something for sure doesn’t mean it has no chance of succeeding. And more importantly, there is a lot of evidence that people who go from doing a job to teaching it in the way that pitchers do are under the influence of a lot of bullcrap old-fashioned conventional wisdom. Precisely the reason DD has a good pitching strategy is because he has a different perspective on it.
And are there really that many great pitching coaches that were pitchers? How many of those could be attributed simply to talented pitchers at their disposal? The only other pitching coach who got much note was Leo Mazzone who himself admitted that his reputation was built entirely on the pitching primes of three hall-of-famers.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Aug 31, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're reading more into my posts than
there is. I never said anything about anything not having a chance of succeeding. See my response to fourstick below.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If 29 out of 30 people
jumped off of a bridge, would you jump off of a bridge too? Just because it’s conventional, doesn’t make it wise. There are a ton of minor league pitching and bullpen coaches that were catchers at one point in time, and look at how many big league managers were catchers. I guess Girardi and Scioscia don’t have any input on the pitching of their ballclubs?
At the big league level it’s about gameplanning more than anything — the ability to condense scouting reports and histories so that you have a plan for attacking hitters and then being able to relay that plan to your pitching staff and get them to follow it. Now, who would be better at that than a good defensive catcher? They already have tons of experience at it as players, so it’s a natural move into pitching.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, but i'm afraid of bridges
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hazel and fourstick,
I expected better out of you two. Read the thread. Fourstick said:
“Catchers, specifically defensive minded ones like Matheny who prided himself on handling a pitching staff, make very good pitching coaches.”
That’s a declarative statement from a stat-savvy guy who usually has great evidence for his positions. Now, if he had said “It’s reasonable to think that catchers can make very good pitching coaches,” I would not have even responded because I agree with that. I can easily imagine how their experience and perspective could be valuable in that role. But my point is that there is exactly ONE former catcher working as a PC in MLB. And in the 35 years I’ve watched baseball, I’ll bet there have been others, but they have been extremely rare and I certainly can’t think of one. So in this case you’re basing a declarative statement on an n of 1. And I’m not trying to defend conventional wisdom. I couldn’t give a crap about where pitching coaches got their experience. I’m pointing out that you’re taking an awfully strong position based on a) conjecture about why a catcher COULD be a good PC, and b) one example that we have so far identified, Dave Duncan. To make a pretty good analogy, I could say that former ML starting pitchers make pretty good power-hitting outfielders, based on Rick Ankiel. But there would be no reliable evidence for that.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what effect, if any, DD's absense would have on Yadi's job behind the plate
Yadi always calls a good game, but how much of that comes from Duncan in the dugout?
by EinFesteBusch on Aug 31, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan credits Yadi for calling a more aggressive game than he does.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not focused on "ex cardinals"
but Oquendo has been touted for that job for years and Walker has been mentioned as a hitting coach for awhile too. Matheny Was also well known for being able to work with pitchers and I figured that like Duncan he would make a fine coach. I actually think Catchers make the better coaches to a pitcher since they see so many different ones and they aren’t trying to force their mechanics.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walker and Matheny aren't even coaching right now.....
Excuse me if I want a little more experience on our roster than that. Walker is on record as saying, I believe, that he doesn’t want a full-time job right now, as he wants to watch his kids grow up. And I’ve never seen Oquendo pimped for the head job anywhere outside of a few STL Cardinal message boards and blogs. Not saying I’d be against it, just saying it isn’t a sure thing. And again, I’m not thrilled with giving a guy his chance to “learn on the job” in STL. Let him go learn somewhere else.
Matt Holliday. Nuff said.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 31, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't TSW
being talked about as a potential MLB manager during the World Classic?
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oquendo's been interviewed
at least a couple of times by other ML teams, I believe.
Some baseball people have said he’s got good potential, but I’m always a little wary of the many Cardinal fans who just assume he’d be a good one, despite the fact that they have no information to support that idea.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember him interviewing too.
I think he interviewed for Seattle, maybe?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 31, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention Puerto Rico, which was instrumental in Piñeiro's sudden awesomeness.
So he clearly is has some experience and is interested in managing. I have no idea if he’d be a good manager but it’s not exactly a crazy idea.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the Futures game
His entire family is into the game. The man does nothing but live and breathe baseball. There’ll have to be a shakedown cruise, but I don’t hate it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Houston
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the Father's
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Walker has been quoted as saying
That he would have no idea how to teach someone else how to hit. I’m not buying him as a hitting coach. Maybe Will Clark?
by OCCardsFan on Aug 31, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I remembered that too
Will Clark would be awesome. I wonder if Jack Clark would be upset though. “I was on this team for longer, and somehow I’m the other Clark! Nobody remembers me! That bastard…”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Yeah, Think Cow...
…Mike Clark, Phil Clark, Mark Clark , Danny Clark, Jim Clark, Stan Clarke, and Josh Clarke must feel!
;=8)
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Aug 31, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd think he'd have something to add with approach as like a bench coach or something if he was down for that
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
I hate Will Clark — thank god he hit when he got traded here, I don’t think I could have dealt with it otherwise. Personally, I’d rather we sold someone’s soul to Satan and installed him as hitting coach than have to put up with Will Clark back in the organization. Ugh.
/rant
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark is very happy simi retired & working for the DBacks
he has said there’s no way in hell right now he wants to do anything different than what he is doing right now.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're like the anti-me!
Man I love Will Clark!
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Kip Wells...
would be an excellent hitting coach. He’s seen plenty of good swings from about 55’ away and watched a lot of well hit balls go over the fence.
by Jumsy on Aug 31, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oquendo
He was interviewed at least twice last season, as I recall, and I believe he was a candidate for the Brewers job a few years ago too. As far as “pimping” anyone for a head job, that never happens in public outside of the organization that you work for, so saying that you haven’t heard anything isn’t really saying all that much at all. I’d prefer that if TLR leaves that the organization keeps things in house instead of bringing in a headstrong manager just to get a “name” that has had success, unless that name is Buck Showalter and if it is, I’d be all for it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect you'd see the Cardinals tab a minor league coach over Oquendo.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Aug 31, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like Pop
He is probably second on my list. I also wonder if and when So Taguchi will take on a managing job, and I also wonder whether that will be here or in Japan. I think he would be very good at it.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh lord
Just imagine him arguing a call with an umpire
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
screw So
I’ll take Ichiro.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There'd definitely be more cursing that way.
Ichiro would argue with the ump in the form of improvisational curse-word haiku. So would probably be a lot more polite.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you heard about Ichiro visiting Sisler's grave
He’d be perfect in St. Louis. Great attention to history. And he’s totally dekin’ pitchers into throwing him his pitch.
However, he might balk on reasons of horrible diet.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would so love Ichiro to have anything to do with St. Louis
And you’re right about the Sisler thing. That was classy, even if a lot of people have no idea who he is. But I can’t imagine him being with any organization other than Seattle.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the seafood is just so much better.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love him to unleash the English
And be even more entertaining than Ozzie.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love Ichiro
I’ve been thinking about it lately, what would my lineup of favorite (not necessarily best) non-Cardinals look like?
Definitely Ichiro in RF, Josh Hamilton or Grady Sizemore in CF, Zack Greinke at P, maybe Brian Roberts at 2B
Kind of blanking here, any thoughts from the rest of VEB?
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dreamy Joe Mauer
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
though sometimes I entertain myself
pondering what a catcher / back-up tandem of Mauer and Pierzynski would be like.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would consist of Mauer starting every game
and A.J. annoying the shit out of everyone else in the dugout.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would watch that sitcom.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might actually take me some J Roll.
Based on pretty much nothing. He just seems smart about it.
And I’d take Carl Crawford.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me it can be hard to separate out non-Cards that are my favorites, because I have to find a reason not to like other good players.
That said, I basically drafted a team of some of my favorite non-Cardinals in a fantasy team and it worked out awesome. I know that “nobody cares about [my] fantasy team” but I did think it was interesting how many players I actively like I was able to draft. Lineup includes McCann, Pablo Sandoval, Adrian Gonzalez, Hanley, Utley, Granderson, Markakis. I tend to like outfielders with all-around ability, like the Grandersons and Sizemores of the world. I hope Colby ends up in that conversation.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot the Panda!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my $0.02
C Mauer
1B Tex
2B Utley
SS Hanley
3B Zimmerman
LF Lind
CF Adam Jones
RF Swisher/Werth
P Lincecum
P
P Jurrjens
P Slowey
P Garza
RP Wuertz
RP Rivera
RP Sherrill
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(basically an all-star team)
Adam Dunn and Dexter Fowler are a couple guys I like who aren’t all-world
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not only is Dunn not all world
but he is anti-american…boo!
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might even be anit-world.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
especially if he pretends the baseball is a mini-earth, and that’s why he hits the ball so far!
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He loves global warming
When he sees a baseball, he pictures an all white, snow covered world and it enrages him. He want’s all ice caps to melt so he hits the “world” as hard as he can out of rage.
Really…Adam Dunn needs to see a therapist or something.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he hits it so smooooth
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you only listed 4 SP's!
but i think there’s a smudge on my screen…
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
by BVHeck on Aug 31, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm probably going to get shot down for this but whatever
What about Mark McGwire as a hitting coach? I know he screwed up Holliday somewhat when Holliday trained with him, but a dude with such a high pedigree (Steroids or not, you still have to at least know how to get contact on the ball) would be a nice addition. My 2nd choice would probably be Edmonds.
Man, with this outfield, need to get rid of that Rasmus, no Ankiel, wait no, Rasmus wait...To hell with Ankiel FREE KOBE RAMSIS
by Taskmaster on Aug 31, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have no problem with McGwire being a hitting coach
but i prefer Walker if only because there would be less circus.
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walker does off-season stuff with the team, right?
I thought his approach to hitting was basically “I dunno, I just hit the ball good.” So I’m not sure how he’d be that great a hitting coach. I always thought he had more to do with fielding and fundamental stuff.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am still perplexed as to what a good hitting coach does.
I would take…. Albert Pujols, to be honest.
I mean, come on. Yadier Molina had no offense to speak of since forever.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats why I put Big Mac on there, but I don't think it would fly
I don’t think he screwed Holliday up, they have a short time to work in the winter on things and I wonder if what Big Mac suggested was just something for Matt to try out. Without being there to oversee it and possibly correct what wasn’t working I doubt we can blame Big Mac for making a suggestion that just didn’t work with Holliday. You have to try things and then know when it isn’t working and try something else and he wasn’t given that oppurtunity during the season.
But he also worked out with Skip and several others. I think he has been learning the hitting coach trade for awhile now and would probably be good at it.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't see Mac wanting that job, for one
and I don’t think he’d be a very good hitting coach. He struggled for years in the early 90’s with his own hitting without being able to figure it out on his own, so we’d entrust him to work with other guys to find problems and develop young hitters? I think that’s a disaster waiting to happen, not to mention the absolute fucking circus that it would involve.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diagnosing your own flaws is MUCH harder than
diagnosing flaws in others. Why do you think Tiger Woods has a swing coach?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 31, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His diagnosis nearly killed Holliday's season.
That makes him 0 for 1.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Aug 31, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, he's 1 for 2 then.
Skippy credits Mark’s offseason hitting workouts for his success as a major league hitter.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 31, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also coached...
CHRIS DUNCAN!
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to say
whether it was his contribution that led to Holliday’s slow start. There are lots of variables at work there. Obviously, now he’s made the adjustment and credits that with his turn around. Other factors could easily be in play.
by Toddius on Aug 31, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Holliday alluded to (or flat out said)
that he had to dump what McGwire did to get back on track….or something like that.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understandable
But I don’t think that Mac is the type of guy I’d want as a hitting coach. I think Cal Ripken would make an amazing hitting instructor, as would guys like Alan Trammell or Mike Greenwell — guys who struggled as hitters but were able to work their way out of things based on hard work and practice. Not that Mac isn’t that type of guy, I just don’t know how good a teacher he would be — he’s famously tentative and shy when approaching others and those aren’t great traits to have as an instructor of any kind.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Oquendo should be the manager, and Fred McGriff and Tom Emanski should coach 1st and 3rd and be defensive coaches…Every OFer could throw a ball into a trash can from the OF every time.
by Jumsy on Aug 31, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
John Mabry would do a good job.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Aug 31, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
I’ve never heard of Mabry helping anyone out. Not that I’m dialed in to baseball gossip, of course.
by sdrone on Aug 31, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a good pinch-hitter
when he was a Cardinal, there were lots of articles talking about how he would help the call-ups on their PH approach since it was their role here and something they never did in the minors.
He joined the team at one point during this season and helped out the Stavinova on this very thing.
The way I see it, all a pitching coach has to do for the regulars is help them with their homework—make sure they’ve reviewed their video and scouting reports. His real work is with the bench fodder and call-ups and I figure that Mabry would help those types out a lot better than a great player like McGwire for whom hitting always came a little easier and how had fewer struggles during his batting career to overcome.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Aug 31, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mabry
was an easygoing likeable player that got along with everybody from what I could glean from all reports and he was a good hitter and passed along instruction to younger players. Who could be better.
by ridgesee on Aug 31, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved Mabry
but his swing was horrible. He was good in his role, especially that sweet game in Cincy. Too much movement in the swing.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Aug 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think McGwire would be an outstanding hitting coach,
and have actually suggested it before. Unfortunately, there’s so much other stuff that comes along with that it would probably never happen.
Imagine the magic pixie dust that would fly around the league then when our guys all started hitting .320/.410./.530.
I've made a huge tiny mistake.
by the red baron on Aug 31, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't blame him.
He can live his life with some privacy and relative obscurity now, as a retired player. Taking a coaching job opens him up to questions about PEDs every day from the media. I suspect that is why McGwire won’t even be a Spring Training instructor, instead working out privately with players during the offseason.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoever Albert Pujols wants to play for.
If TLR is a tie that keeps Albert in STL, then TLR should be the guy. The replacement must be approved by AP, even if it is Bobby Valentine.
by Jumsy on Aug 31, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
from an organisational point of view
it would be cool (if TLR leaves and Oquendo moves into a more senior role) for Ozzie Smith to be brought back as our 3B coach (or maybe infielding coach or something). It is long overdue for him to be a major, official part of this organisation.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 5:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another classic DanUp-ism:
“…he stuck to the corners at the middle of the plate…”
I sometimes don’t always understand half the time.
by the Tewk on Aug 31, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
can we call those Danism's?
or is that already taken?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of all the things that could theoretically be called danisms
I hope it’s not this. (You can find more in my new book, When You Come to a Fork in the Road—Don’t Proofread It!.)
by DanUpBaby on Aug 31, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never proofread anything i write either
that still does not excuse that what i say is probably wrong
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Hope...
….is that this all blows over somecow, and we retain LaDunc. I think overall the team has been better off with them than without over the years, and if our team is blossoming into a perennial cowtender it would nice not to rock the boat by bringing in someone new with a whole different managing/pitching philosophy.
Moost of you all recall that I was fairly vocal about trading Lil Dunc, but that was before I knew the extent of his neck problems. I think he bears a lot of responsibility for not allowing himself enough time to heal properly. But LaDunc has a good point: the media and fan base went a little over the top in excoriating Lil Dunc as if he were the main problem with this team. This team had a lot of issues early on, and it worries me to see the unceremonious and often tawdry way the team tosses aside those who have served the team well in the past but are cowsidered no use now (see A Kennedy). The Cardinal organization has moore class than that.
Lil Dunc tried to play before he was ready to come back; TLR played him moore than he should have, partly to give him the chance to ‘play his way’ back to his old form; Papa Dunc thinks with his heart when it comes to his son, as any father would. Let’s just hope the soap opera dies down and is drowned out by a championship season, and we get the gang back together next year for an-udder go.
As for Lil Dunc, he needs time away to heal and re-focus. The odds are long, but there have been a few players who have battled back from adversity (see Ankiel), and he can too, with or without the Cards.
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Aug 31, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't
the “fan base” that went over the top, it was a few fans who went over the top. Not to get too tied up into semantics here, but those are 2 very different things.
And even among the nastiest critics of Chris Duncan, I don’t think there were many, if any, who considered him the “main problem” of the team. Let’s not forget, Ankiel was sucking just about as badly if not worse most of the first half, and we had to watch the early-season 3B platoon fall off the face of the earth after the first 2 months, and there were more than a few other problems on the team.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about everyone else
but my unhappiness at Dunc’s playing time was always directed at the guy who wrote his name on the lineup card. I still don’t think TLR/DD understand that a lot of that vitriol was directed at them.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 31, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
And they MIGHT actually have some idea of it if anyone in the STL media would ever grow a pair and ask them some real questions.
Reporter (in response to Tony’s “vomit” tirade): “Do you think any of the negative treatment you’re talking about stemmed from him playing at less than 100%, and playing poorly after being penciled into the lineup?”
Perfectly reasonable question.
by goodymobb on Aug 31, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it worries me to see the unceremonious and often tawdry way the team tosses aside those who have served the team well in the past but are cowsidered no use now (see A Kennedy).
That’s, you know, kinda how it works. You’d rather we held onto players simply because of what they did in the past, as opposed to what they’re doing now?
Baseball players are exceptionally well-paid for doing one thing very well. They owe their teams no loyalty and (in general) will play for the team that offers them the best contract. I don’t especially see why teams should show excessive loyalty to players, above that which is determined by economics.
Chris Duncan sucked, had done for 2 years, and he was traded for a useful, productive major league player. He wasn’t buried in the minor leagues by the Cardinals, nor do I see how he was “disrespected” by being traded, something that happens to every baseball player at some point. I don’t see why we should’ve showed “loyalty” to this particular player and make our team worse as a result. Lugo is better than Duncan, and costs less. Ergo, it was the right thing to do.
I also take issue with the suggestion that what Dave Duncan did (publicly criticise his employer) was what “any father would do” in the circumstances, or that it was justified or reasonable. If you and your son worked for a company, and your son had been extremely unproductive and had not met any of the company’s requirements, and he was moved on sabbatical (ON FULL PAY) to another company, I suspect if you went and spoke to a newspaper, telling them basically that you felt the company were shitbags and had disrespected you and your family, I suspect you could expect to be fired, or at the very least disciplined. Frankly, I pretty much lost any sympathy I had for Dave Duncan when he did that. I’ll be sorry to lose him as a pitching coach, but after that outburst, IMO the organisation needs to kick him to the kerb.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand
all about how losing or not having control can make a control freak cranky. As far as Chris goes, I think it’s commendable that Dave is fond of his son. But dude, like it or not, business is sometimes business.
by bobcat80 on Aug 31, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
If Dave couldn’t handle his son being treated like a professional ballplayer, then perhaps he shouldn’t have been put in the situation in the first place.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave McKay must be the bigger man*
I dont remember him threatening to take his ball and go home when we release Cody (the original, not Ramos) back in ’04…
(*this was not intended to be a steroids joke)
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bigger man? Or simply easier to replace?
by StanTheManFan on Aug 31, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know, McKay throws batting practice everyday
how are you going to replace that? Plus he slaps some great ass over at first base after the hitter gets on…
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back rubs
Creepy back rubs
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but it feels so right
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
What the hell is that?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Aug 31, 2009 11:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
That's not their egos he's stroking!
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know baseball players needed fluffers
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone needs a fluffer.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you forget whispering in their ear.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soft, sweet nothings
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
>screechy high-pitched voice<
hey, paper boy! i got some candy for you. why don’t you come inside and get some?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It must be my birthday!
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really go for a back rub right now
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he an outfield coach?
I’ve never really understood what else he does. Obviously Oquendo has extra duties like infield coaching.
by sdrone on Aug 31, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cant you read?
ass slaps and back rubs!
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
He’s responsible for timing the opposing pitchers delivery. Other than that? uh…
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he's the OF coach
It sounds like he also is sort of the back-up hitting coach and has at various points been a strength and conditioning guy. But he’s definately in charge of the OF.
One of my favorite moments in Cardinals-watching came a few seasons ago when Al decided that OFers stink at throwing now because they don’t take IF/OF pregame anymore. He asked McKay about it and he said that pregame was really only a show they put on for fans and that the system they use now gets the OFers considerably more throws than they had in the past. Al has yet to repeat that line of thought, though I’ve heard others bring it up. Still…I laughed.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 31, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
…I thought Dave McKay played second base mainly…
:=8/
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Aug 31, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tp Home field Advantage or Not?
If San Francisco wins the wild card, I’d just as soon not win home field advantage during the playoffs. I think we’d be better off stating with the Dodgers, even with mostly away games, than we would be starting against Lincecum and Cain. And may be those to gents do us a solid and knock off the Phillies?
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Aug 31, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Giants can't hit...
We match Lincecum-Cain-Zito with Carpenter-Wainwright-Pineiro. They don’t scare me nearly as much as they do some. I’d rather beat them, then have home field in the NLCS against the Dodgers or Phillies. No question in my mind. We especially don’t want to play 4 out of 7 in that bandbox in Philadelphia.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Aug 31, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i need a molina v. molina power surge
Holliday: "Albert, Carp and I have been talking about it and we think we know what your problem is. You've been tipping your swings." I expect no further problems.
by slash2049 on Aug 31, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather face the Rockies than the Giants personally
One team has Lincecum and Cain, with Bruce Bochy as manager
The other has no Lincecum or Cain, with Jim Tracy as manager
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
Jason Marquis is their second best starter.
FWIW, Marquis, Jimenez, Hammell, and De La Rosa have all been better per FIP than Matt Cain has this year.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to face the Rockies
for the War of the Roses; DeRosa v. De La Rosa.
But yeah, the Rockies have one of those very solid rotations but not necessarily the much desired “one-two punch”
I really don’t know if another playoff-bound staff has as good a 1-2-3 as we do, or even a 1-2. Lincecum is great, but Carp and Wainwright is better than Lincecum and Cain. Cliff Lee is awesome but I can’t imagine Happ is really that good.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamels?
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been good this year but not great.
But maybe he’d put it together for the playoffs. I keep seeing “Lee/Happ” getting buzz because of the years they’re having, and I think Happ is definitely benefitting from some luck. Hamels is no slough though, he’s a fine pitcher and isn’t as bad as he’s looked. He’s rocking a FIP around 4. tRA is 4.86 though according to fangraphs.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh
Didn’t realize that. Although he’s been injured some this year, no?
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I've yet to see an attempted explanation
I don’t really know much about his year other than cursory looks at fangraphs.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the playoffs exposed him to too many extra games
and he started to melt
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
So is he just worn out then? I would think an injury would be possible in that case.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, he's just made of wax.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't there some speculation that his elbow was giving out?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Aug 31, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm looking forward to the "homecoming" series
Atlanta and Colorado.
Also those might be games that Count to those teams.
Frankly I’m additionally leery of San Francisco because Bengie seems to pwn Yadier.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure LBoros wouldn't mind a Rockies-Cards series.
Isn’t he from Denver?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think maybe he'd blog more?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about this the other day
If (knock on wood) we win (knock on wood) the World (knock…) Series (…on wood), I’d like an lboros post the morning after. With all due respect to our awesome current mods, of course.
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that JD.
I could go for a serious lack of capital letters.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 31, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what's gotta happen for an lb post? geez.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Hate Jason Marquis!!!
>=8/
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Aug 31, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so do i cow
so do i
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would, too...
But he’s talking about sacrificing home field throughout just to avoid the Giants in the NLDS. I disagree with that wholeheartedly.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Aug 31, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Tracy...
is a better manager than Bruce Bochy. Every year that Tracy has had a losing record, look at the roster and tell me the team’s record should have been considerably better. ’05 Dodgers? Gagne and Drew hurt, Beltre just bolted for FA, and Jeff Weaver was the staff Ace. ’06 & ’07 Pittsburgh…Need I say more?
by Jumsy on Aug 31, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillies are the only ones that scare me
What I don’t want is for us to face the Phillies in any series, other than that I don’t care which NL West foes we face. And if we do have to play the Phillies I would love to have homefield advantage\
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
With as reliant as they are on the HR, playing an extra game at Busch seems pretty beneficial. But I’m like you, I don’t want to see them at all. I feel like the Cardinals are the best team in the NL, but they’ve just made a habit of kicking the shit out of us.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Aug 31, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
game at Busch = the only time Ryan Howard will get an entire section to cheer for him.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt the cheers will be to loud
during the playoffs…
Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
by stlhulsey on Aug 31, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he makes the last out of the NLCS it might be ;)
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
home field advantage
with the Phils is crucial. They look like the biggest post season obstacle we’d probably face. I think we can take anyone out of the west, but will have some problems, especially if the offense gets even more anemic.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Essentially tied w/Phils, w/2 games in hand
PHI — 75 – 53 .586
STL — 77 – 55 .583
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on Aug 31, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loss column!
Wait… nevermind.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not me
Home field all the way. We match up well with the Giants pitching staff, and we have Pujols and Holliday, who hit good pitchers pretty well and are both better than any of the offensive players on the Giants entire team. Carp, WW, and Piniero would carve up their free swinging lineup and their bullpen isn’t that great — then we get the Dodgers or Phils at home to start that series, and I’d much rather face the Phils faltering bullpen in a game 6 at home than in a game 6 on the road, but that’s just me.
I still think the Rockies are going to win the Wild Card, in which case I’d much rather start at home and be 2-0 going to Colorado.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG!
They know Skip and Brendan’s names! And they know what they do! On SC! #9 on top weekend plays.
Cats and dogs living together.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my white noise disturbs your soul?
I’m more productive when there’s meaningless drivel on a loop.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
If I’m up studying late at night, SC on repeat truly does make the best background noise.
by Frozen_Beltran on Aug 31, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wainwright's Birthday Party
I imagine the starting 8 walking up to Wainwright and Pujols saying, “We all went in together and got you two runs of offensive support.” Wainwright awkwardly thanking them like a grandparent who bought him a sweater at Christmas. Then, after the game, McClellan, Miller, and Franklin, walk up and Franklin says, “We all three pitched in and got you 3 innings of shutout relief, ya know, so that you can receive your league-leading sixteenth ‘win,’ no matter how silly a stat it is.” Wainwright naturally replies with enthusism, “Thanks guys! This is exactly what I needed!”
Meanwhile, a BBWAA member on a coast peruses the morning box scores and mutters to himself, “Wow, Wainwright got his sixteenth win yesterday…”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
and Wellemeyer is in the corner crying because no one got him anything for his Birthday (also yesterday)
except for a bus ticket down to Memphis
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 31, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would personally buy him a helicopter or limo ride down to memphis.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Aug 31, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Chris Duncan Situation
It’s really ridiculous. The reason we as fans were on him so much isn’t because he sucked. We knew what he was in his last two season with the club: a LH bench power bat. LaRussa saw him as an starting outfielder based on a strong ‘06 and an unwavering allegience to Dave Duncan. That was where the problem with the fans lay, not we Chris’s ability, but with the “nepotism” that was prevelant. It’s the same deal with Ankiel this year(though that is changing). Rasmus is a better baseball player in every facet of the game, yet LaRussa refused to sit his adopted son, team betterment be damned. Tony is a great manager, but he is loyal to a fault. Dave Duncan feeling disrespected is his fatherly emotion, it has nothing to do with baseball. The trade made us better, plain and simple. Get over it.
And I refuse to believe that drafting players like Mort, and Lynn was done against Duncan’s pitching philosophy. Both are prototypical pitch to contact guys(Mort moreso than Lynn).
If he’s going to be like this from now on, I say bring on Marty Mason. I doubt he would turn down a Pitching Coach gig to continue to be DD’s stooge.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Aug 31, 2009 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Dunc's pitching philosophy is misunderstood
It’s not “strikeouts are bad, contact is good.” It’s “walks and home runs are bad, strikeouts are a little over-rated compared to how bad those latter two are, and if you can change the way you pitch (take a little off the fastball and keep it down in the zone where the plate looks bigger to the umpire for whatever reason, usually) to lower your BB/9 and HR/9 more than your K/9, you’re improving yourself.” And that’s a philosophy with solid theoretical and empirical support.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Aug 31, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Dave may not have wanted Chris Duncan sent to Boston, but it wasn’t shabby treatment. Being a LH bench power bat, or maybe sometime first baseman, for Boston is about the best possible situation for Chris to regain some value.
by madridbend on Aug 31, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
If Dave still wants his son in the MLB this is best. Chris can’t be a cardinal forever, atleast he got a ring
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 31, 2009 12:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Unless we turn him into a flag
Than he would fly forever
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 31, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or a trophy.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Duncan reincarnated as a trophy...
I like it. Kharmic retribution for his despicable acts from 2006.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Aug 31, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would he then hump himself?
The philosophical and physiological paradoxes arising from Duncan-turned-trophy are too terrible to comprehend.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 31, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go hump yourself!
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, now that I'm thinking more about it.
it reminds me of all the movies and tv shows where two people have switched bodies espeically when it’s a male and a female switching. I’ve always wondered how in hell you would keep your hands off yourself if you were in that situation.
And by “you” I mean “me” and I think I already know the answer so I should probably stop talking.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perceived Nepotism
TLR stuck with Chris Duncan and it was bemoaned, being labeled outright as nepotism. However, TLR was just as patient, if not more patient, with Thurston and Ankiel. In fact, he’s still playing Ankiel more than he should. The difference is that neither of their fathers are on the staff. Was Chris being Dave’s son a factor in TLR’s decisionmaking toward Chris? Probably. Was TLR continuing to play Duncan based solely on his last name? I don’t think so.
I’m someone who has long stuck up for Chris Duncan, especially during 2006 and 2007. The problem was simply health. And, after a great start to the season, his falloff in production clearly demonstrated continuing health problems which necessitated a roster move. The problem became one because it was clear to every fan, even Chris Duncan fans, that he should not be getting the large number of PAs that he was getting. And the name on his jersey colored our perceptions as to why he was getting those PAs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
TLR also played Stav, and Shane Robinson. And Ludwick was also struggling in the beginning. OF was just a mess with no clear solutions. The choice b/t no power and guaranteed strikeout is pretty tough.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Aug 31, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no kidding about dick n thurston
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thursty is apparently a TLR fan
so that explains him
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still doesn't make it right
he has no business being on the team. especially considering someone named Craig is wasting away down in memphis
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dick and thrust?
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Aug 31, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think i've seen that movie
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Midwest stadium recommendations
My buddies and I just finished a whirlwind east coast ballpark tour and had so much fun that we are already talking about next year. Our plan is to start in either Cleveland, Cincinnati, or Detroit, and head to Milwaukee and Wrigley before concluding at Busch (maybe adding KC in there if we can make it work).
The question then is where to start. Is there one of those first three that we should definitely do over the others? Busch and Wrigley are the only musts, and Miller just makes sense since it is right there (we’d hit the Cell too but Cubs and Sox are rarely at home the same weekend). I think that I’d personally like to see Jacobs the most, but Detroit might be easier travel wise and I’ve heard good things about Great American Ballpark. Any tips??
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely go to Kauffman
I love that stadium and think it’s beautiful. Plus, it’s very cheap and you can get very good seats for that low price. (Wrigley and Busch will be expensive.) There is a cool tailgating atmosphere, which you could plan to take advantage of by buying the $8-parking pass with your tickets. I love going to Royals games and have always enjoyed Kauffman. Plus, they have K.C.-brewed beer at some kiosks.
I’ve heard that the Tigers’ stadium is beautiful. I’ve alwasy wanted to go to Jacobs Field wearing one of these. You’ve got some tough decisions to make.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a sweet tee
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome
My diehard Tribe fan buddy from Cleveland was so pissed when they changed the name.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone still calls it the Jake
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on Kauffman
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about Tigers stadium
But the Jake is a great park to go to. Barring mayflies and seagulls, of course.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh
and I forgot to add that GABP isn’t anything to write home about. Just my opinion.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? What other stadium would you compare it to?
The only real reason I’m keeping Miller on the list is that it would be possible to do a day game at wrigley and a night game there with public transportation between so we can imbibe. We just made our own day/night doubleheader at Yankee and Citizens Bank and it was an amazing day.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh
I don’t think any ball park is really comparable. Each one I’ve been to has it’s own charms … I just did’t think GABP seemed all that particularly special. Reminds me of Citizens, but more run down. I wouldn’t say it’s a “never go there, it sucks” venue like some concert halls, it just doesn’t stack up to Cleveland or anywhere you just went to out east.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sucks that GABP is considered "run down" given that it's been open for 6 years
Although, in my one trip to Cincy in my life, the general feeling I got about the whole place was “run down.” They were still in the process of constructing GABP then (2001).
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah maybe that was just the whole vibe
I had from Cincy in general. And I make silly aesthetic judgments about stupid stuff like steamboats for little reason, flagpoles on hills in center field, and netting on the ceiling to keep the concrete from falling on peoples’ heads.
Come to think of it, it wasn’t bad at all. Just not… great.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so maybe it should just be the American Ballpark?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Eh American Ballpark?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 31, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate GABP
They don’t have normal nachos at the regular concession stands. It’s the premade cold bullshit. I walked around literally the entire stadium to find that exactly one stand served regular nachos.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
never have I seen someone so invested in nachos
It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.
by YesWeOquendo on Aug 31, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went to the concessions to get nachos
And it became one of those “I’ve already been too far already not to get nachos.”
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ohio has a bad vibe dude, not just down there
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not run down, it's just blanned & borning
there’s nothing special about it. the Jake is a much, much all around better park.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
way too much blanning went on there
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Aug 31, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they really should get a handle on it, they're outta control
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they were talking about making it a Federal offence?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, you make some awesome points.
Cheap and local brews are talking my language, which is awesomese.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the brews probably wouldn't be cheap
This is a sports event after all.
(I’m assuming he was saying only the tickets were cheap)
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's a given.
Can’t be worse than the $10 for Bud/Bud light at Yankee though.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
$10 for Bud Light. I just couldn’t bring myself to do that. I’m pretty sure I could concoct some vaguely-tasting bubbly water with a little alcohol in it and for much less than $10.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ferment snocones. like they do in prison.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheaper than Yankee Stadium,
…but, not cheap by any means. However, the tickets (as mattybobo correctly assumed) are very cheap. Plus, in K.C., you can tour the Boulevard brewery.
Speaking of such tours, Budweiser now has the “Brewmaster tour” that is supposed to be pretty cool. Has anyone been?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went on the Bud plant tour in, ermmm, 2003 I think
possibly 04. It was OK really, for a random rainy day.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of those ballparks...
I think Jacobs and Comerica Field are the nicest. Haven’t been to GAB, though.
Miller is nothing special; it’s new, it’s a big, pretty garage. Not a bad place to see a game. But the parks in Detroit and Cleveland should most DEFINITELY be hit.
And Wrigley… ugh. Talk about an enormous, concrete urinal. I hate that place.
by RedbirdAvenger on Aug 31, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
On the concrete urinal, I hate the gumbox
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 31, 2009 12:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Miller.
It does have a neat tailgating tradition, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miller Park & Wrigley Field
I live pretty much halfway between the two ballparks and I’ve said before that these two are opposites of each other. Miller has very good parking, fairly easy access to the highway, easy & clean concourses, good variety of ballpark food, modern bathrooms, and a comfortable experience when the weather isn’t the best. Wrigley has the tradition in the park, passion in the stands, and despite all of its flaws, still seems to be the more desirable place to see a game (maybe its the bird watching). Where one ballpark has an advantage, the other has a significant disadvantage.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Aug 31, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weather
A great point. When planning such a road trip, you are at Mother Nature’s mercy as to weather. If you went to Miller, you’d be certain to see and entire game.
Also, Target Field opens next year in Minneapolis. I’m interested to see that one.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but it won't have a roof(?)!!!!
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 31, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes no sense whatsoever to me.
I know they had baseball in Minneapolis for two decades without a roof, but I just feel that they are asking for snowouts and iceouts. Heck, in Des Moines this year, the first I-Cubs game got snowed out and we are four hours south of the Twice Cities.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 31, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are only two seasons
winter and road construction.
they’re crazy if they think road construction will hang on just for their stadium. unless they have new warming grass technology.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
global warming
have you not been listening to Al Gore?
by STLRegalia on Aug 31, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there have been more tornadoes, though.
for 6
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm in the minority here
but I really like Wrigley. A day game at Wrigley remains one of the great baseball occasions IMO…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, to a point
I love watching a game at Wrigley, from the moment I sit in my seat until I have to leave it again. Before I sit in it and after I do so, it pretty much sucks, only in as much as a day at the ballpark can suck.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Sep 1, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about PNC in Pittsburgh?
I’ve heard nothing but rave reviews about it
(Unless of course you hit it as part of your east coast swing)
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PNC is my favorite
NL park in the east, for sure. great sight lines.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've hit PNC before..
..and it is awesome. Highly recommended for anyone who can make the trip.
The trip I just finished was Fenway, Yankee, Citizens Bank and Camden. VERY full 3 days.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Camden Yards is still one of my favorite.
by gdowdy3 on Aug 31, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was wonderful.
Great sightlines, beautiful day, and just happened to be dollar dog day. Amazing.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a nice game
I go to O’s games over the Nats all the time. Both teams stink, but the atmosphere at Camden is great.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, except
when the Yankees or Red Sox are in town and their fans take up 60 percent of the seats. And then, since all NY/Bos games are classified as “premium” by the O’s, I get to pay 20 percent extra to listen to them while their teams beat down the O’s.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was buying an O's T-shirt at the Babe Ruth museum after the game yesterday..
..and they were gearing up for the huge influx in sales as the Yankees come to town for the series this week. I was pretty shocked at the amount of AL East gear you could buy there – there was an entire section devoted strictly to Yankees and Red Sox stuff.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so it's kind of like the upper NE when the colors turn.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the whole
atmosphere is hard to reconcile myself to. Of course, there really are massive numbers of New Yorkers and New Englanders who live in this part of the country. But I always suspect there might be a certain portion of the natives who just switched over because the O’s are so hopeless.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed out
The only time I’ve ever been in Baltimore was during the winter. Actually bought a t-shirt and had dinner at the ESPN Zone at the ballpark, but have not had the pleasure of watching a game there.
A couple blocks from there was a small bar that had 10 cent garlic wings. Best damn wings ever.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Aug 31, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Been to Camden Yards and I think it's my favorite stadium
On another trip I did Old Yankee Stadium and Fenway on consecutive nights, which was pretty awesome. Never did Citizen’s Bank though, mostly b/c I’m not sure I could tolerate Philly phans.
Note-the folks I encountered at Fenway were all very nice to me and it wasn’t a particularly hostile environment. Granted they were also playing the 2007 Rays that night and it was Lester’s home debut after his bout with cancer, so there’s that…
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 31, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love Camden but
For the atmosphere I prefer new Busch. Camden has lots more to do near the stadium that I would actually take advantage of compared to downtown St Louis though. Camden also comes across as a mini city with a baseball diamond in it where Busch is a stadium built to house baseball. But I like both. It has been awhile since I have been to Camden though, last time I was there was when they were still flipping numbers for Ripken prior to him breaking the record.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One nice thing
about Camden is it’s almost impossible to get lost in it, no matter how drunk you are. There are places in Busch III that can be seriously confusing for someone who is … shall we say, impaired.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
It may just be me being a homer, but only Busch rivals PNC. PNC has a beer stand down the right field line with 20 different beers on tap. You also can’t be the price for tickets up close (walked up to the ticket window and chose where I wanted to sit for $30/ticket). The Stadium is beautiful. It’s a real shame that they don’t have more fans attend (I was working in Pittsburgh, live in Indianapolis, attended a Pirates game with 8,000 fans, then went home on the weekend to an Indianapolis Indians game (Pirates AAA team), and there were 10,000 fans present).
I’ve been to GABP, and people in Cincy think it is one of the best, but it is clearly not even close. I have also been to Wrigley (not impressed other than the fact that it is old and has history-of losing). I have been to a Chase Field (used to be The BOB), and it was nice, I just didn’t feel like I was at a game since the roof was closed. I had tickets for a game at US Cellular Field, but it got rained out.
by Jumsy on Aug 31, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indianapolis Indians
They play in one heck of a ballpark. I love it. (I went there once the year it was opened, I think, in 1996.)
by stlfan on Aug 31, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Victory Field
I’m from Indiana and the State HS Baseball Finals are held there. Playing in that park is one of my all-time best memories. Gorgeous, gorgeous park.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Sep 1, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a very nice stadium...
I would actually recommend stopping in Indy to catch a game if the schedule permits and you decide to go from Chicago to Cincy. From Chicago to Indy is about 3.5 hours, 1.5 from Indy to Cincy, then another 5.5 hours to STL.
by Jumsy on Sep 1, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the BOB
Or Chase Field – you are right, it does not feel like a ball game at all with the roof closed (which it was for the entire pre-game in the game I went to.) Once the roof is opened, it is a BEAUTIFUL park. You can see the mountains (at least from the nose-bleed seats I was in) through the giant windows that open up (along with the retractable roof) in the outfield.
by stlfan on Aug 31, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
i attended on a really nice evening – and had the opposite occur, as the roof was open when we arrived. i have no idea why they closed it, but suddenly it was like trying to watch a baseball game inside a pinball machine.
"He ran hard, but he didn't run fast. He runs like he's mad at the ground." - opposing broadcaster describing Yadi's speed.
by TNTinCO on Aug 31, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went on the 4th of July to Chase Field.
They opened the roof for the fireworks. It was a pretty good place to watch a game. Camden and the new Busch are my favorites. Tropicana and Minutemaid are the worst. Tropicana is a total dump. The atmosphere sucks and the acoustics are horrible. The guy in centerfield with the cowbell made me want to vomit. The only plusses were the free parking and the barbecue nachos.
by cdc81 on Sep 1, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed out on Camden on my road trip in New England/eastern seaboard last year
went to Old Yankee, which was pretty cool, Pettitte vs Bedard, and a lot of runs. But as a Stadium it didn’t do much for me, really, and the concessions were astronomical (9 bucks for not-quite-a-pint of shit beer). Also it’s in a pretty crappy area.
Fenway was pretty cool, though.
The Yards is high on my “places to see a ballgame in the future” list, though.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a tip:
base it on the schedule. Meaning, make sure you see the Cards play someone good at home, and build it from there.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Aug 31, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that Chris has been released
Why not sign him to a minor league contract and invite him to spring training? If he is still hurt and can recover why not give him a chance ? If he is unable to get it together by ST he spends 2010 in Memphis. What is the harm in that? The FO has had communication problem before. This is something that needs to be fixed no matter who is coaching.
by nybirdfan on Aug 31, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather them go after Shelley in the offseason
C-Dunc is done in this town. If he makes the team, then Larussa will be obliged to play him, and at the cost of whom in the lineup? Ludwick, left fielder X, Pujols?
by olddomination on Aug 31, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we can cut him again
and go through this crap 1 more time?
by sdrone on Aug 31, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
so his dad will stay in town. I wouldn’t put him on the 40 man roster unless he proved he was healthy, but it would worth it to me to keep Poppa Dunc in the BOB. I think Poppa Dunc is more important the Tony to this teams future success.
by nybirdfan on Aug 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I heard Chris didn't want to return to the Cards
… due to the all charges of nepotism and all the other sordid history.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Aug 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
®
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OT- 50% off tix vs. Brew Crew
Sorry for the tangent, but I know some folks on here are still unable to receive (or simply don’t know about) the E-Saver discounted ticket announcements. Here is another for anyone who’s interested:
E-Saver vs. Brewers
Don’t miss this Central Division Showdown when the Brewers visit Busch Stadium September 1-3. Ticket Alert Subscribers can purchase any available ticket for 50% OFF! This great deal includes the popular All-Inclusive Areas!
Coupon Code: ESAVER
- Offer does not include Bleachers, Outfield Terrace Reserved or Standing Room Only.
by goodymobb on Aug 31, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Holliday likes it when you buy tickets
Maybe even more than pies.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha...
The half-off though is great for the all-inclusive areas. I’ve used those several times this year, to the point that I’ve sold season tickets I have (I’m in a group) when there’s a half-off promo the same game. You definitely get your money’s worth between the seat, a hot dog or two (or three of four, depending on appetite), a couple of beers (depending on the thirst), and some ballpark nachos. Oh and they have deliciously fat brownies too.
Totally worth it.
by goodymobb on Aug 31, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much is all-inclusive in Busch?
and where are the seats?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New coaching staff
I wouldn’t mind at all seeing Oquendo as manager (would probably keep Pujols happy too). Walker as the hitting coach. And what about Pags as the Pitching coach? He has made it well known he wants to coach.
by TNCardsFan on Aug 31, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Regarding the fear of Philly
I agree that I want no part of Philadelphia, but I don’t think a series against them is as bleak a “Phillies in 3” scenario as it’s being made out to be.
True, the Cards have gotten smoked 4 times by the Phillies this year. However, three of those games were started by Lohse, Boggs, and Wellemeyer, who have been getting smoked in most every start, never mind a team the likes of Philadelphia. Yes, Wainwright got hammered in the other loss this year, but we can all agree that Wainwright now is pitching a lot better than that earlier verson. And last year’s 20-2 loss? Another Wellemeyer gem.
Carpenter never faced them, and Piniero in his only start against them shut them down.
On the other side of the ball, Cliff Lee absolutely dominated the Cardinals this year in Cleveland. However, in that game, at least an excuse of not having the auxillary right-handed bats could be made. The Cards did beat Hamels the one time they faced him last year, and did the same with Happ this year. However, it’s well documented that Blanton has owned them the past two year.
While it still would be an upset to topple the Phils in October, one must remember that (hopefully) Wellemeyer and Lohse won’t be starting the first two games (and neither will Blanton).
by olddomination on Aug 31, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to hire coaches who have shown
they can help us. rookie coaches are great, but some experience would be great too.
by sdrone on Aug 31, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would be all about who sucks more
Franklin or Lidge
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one thing I'm positive about re: Philly
is that their rotation in the playoffs is likely to be 3 (if not 4) lefties – whilst that would’ve scared me shitless earlier this year, I feel like we hit the southpaws really well now. Most of our better hitters have a platoon split, and they’re all RHB.
With all the lefties/switch-hitters they have (Utley, Howard, J-Rol, Victorino, Ibanez etc), however, I’d feel a bit better if at least one of our aces threw from the left-hand side. I can see Trever Miller seeing a LOT of action in a StL-Phi series…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For all our "med staff sucks"
It got pointed out on the White Sox broadcast that Aaron Boone returned from open heart surgery faster than Jose Reyes has been on the DL from what started as a hamstring strain.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Most exciting hamstring strain EVER
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's just such a dynamic presence on the disabled list.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh god the douchery.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can't even control it...
Who would be in your Fave Five?
My parents, my brother and I’ll keep two spots open for two girls.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Aug 31, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he thinks it's normal!
You’ve seen his shirts, right?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least his collar isn't poped
It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.
by YesWeOquendo on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's angered by your mocking
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Haha
I was just getting that jpeg ready for another airing….
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that just an old hyperglow shirt
with lettering on it?
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anythings possible
the “brah’s” got three shirts on
that we can see
It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.
by YesWeOquendo on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crap...I should've looked down more....
Good observation.
by goodymobb on Aug 31, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wear
long sleeve shirts under shortsleeve shirts under long sleeve shirts
by STLRegalia on Aug 31, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stewie as "Zack Sawyer"
or whatever he called himself in that one episode?
by goodymobb on Aug 31, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you get a sexy party!
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I googled hyperglow to try to find a good picture
But I came up with this and I’m not sure what I think of it.
There is nothing that ThinkGeek won’t put caffeine into.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are many caffeinated beers
Mostly stouts and porters.
by sdrone on Aug 31, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but do they glow?
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 31, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the 80s are back
they need to glow.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh.
I didn’t know that. I guess it would make sense for a coffee stout or something like that to have caffeine, but how does it get in there without being artificially added?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly that.
artificially added.
Young’s Double Chocolate Stout (for instance) contains a chocolate extract, which’ll have theobromine (which acts in a similar way to caffeine I believe) and a tiny amount of caffeine. It’s also really nice. I’m guessing any other stout/porter which has coffee or chocolate as an additive will work in much the same way…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I generally feel weird about mixing caffeine and alcohol
But I used to love rum-and-cokes. Maybe I should try some more exotic stouts.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Sep 1, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dated myself
never heard of Hyperglow. Thought the Fritz was referring to the Hypercolor t-shirts that were popular when I was in Junior High or so…
Braun’s clothing line is an even worse idea than that, though.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Aug 31, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are the ones I meant!
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you dated yourself? how'd that go?
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can usually close the deal that way...usually
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
definitely ups the chances
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how much do you suck if you get shot down?
i’m not speaking from experience mind you, i’m just curious.
that’s all.
honest.
it sooooo didn’t happen to me
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would it be rude to say "Let's go Dutch?"
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
except it's $78
http://store.soliscompany.com/new20recotho.html?gclid=CITe_c-vzpwCFSMeDQod1W_CJQ
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good lord how many
shirts is he actually wearing there? I count 3 and I’m betting there’s an undershirt or “wifebeater” underneath it all. That might be a record.
by goodymobb on Aug 31, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the deputy does not quite understand "layering"
Which is odd, given that it’s Milwaukee.
No, Prince does not constitute ‘layering.’ He brings his own.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the one
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm honestly surprised he didn't answer "Who's your favorite superhero" with "Ryan Braun, brah!"
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He fought the urge to do a snow angel in the track
I’d actually defend something like that. Seems more funny/innocent than douchy. Then…
it just may be the best catch ever
ugh… long live the deputy
It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.
by YesWeOquendo on Aug 31, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"it just may be the best catch ever"
He just doesn’t seem like someone who can sell a line like that. He’s like the inverse-Zack Greinke. Greinke would know that it most definitely was the best catch ever, not one of. He’s probably also call someone a hilarious nickname and declare that he did it to try to teach them all something.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not Zack
Zack would just smile and imply that he just called someone a hilarious nickname but he’s too shy to actually say it. Then there would be a reluctant dimple.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was probably his best catch ever.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Aug 31, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jewish?
isn’t Braun Jewish? Was there malice involved in asking about his favorite Christmas gift?
by STLRegalia on Aug 31, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, for two reasons
1) He said “Christmas or holiday” so maybe that would be a little more PC
2) He’s asked that question of other (non-Jewish) players in the P-DQ series
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see...
I wasn’t sure if it had been asked in other ones and was too lazy busy at work to research
by STLRegalia on Aug 31, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too lazy at work to even slack off?
Yikes
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip's play (and Dan's call) on repeat in the previews
I do like it when the boys score some highlights from those east coast scumbuckets.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I suck. that was #8.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
All of Waino’s highlights are accompanied by cheap shots at Beltran.
Line of the day, from @miklasz: Wainwright’s bobblehead “reportedly struck out Carlos Beltran’s bobblehead in the bobblehead factory.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
From BBTN.
Adam Wainwright has a pretty good curveball. Carlos Beltran, your thoughts?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Aug 31, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew it was a big mistake as soon as I clicked.
Does Ken Rosenthal list English as a first language?
Maybe, if you are Twins general manager Bill Smith, you’re calling the Cubs this morning, saying, “I’ve got to have Rich Harden.”
But maybe, if you are Cubs GM Jim Hendry, you’re responding, “Not so fast.”
This gem: “The Cubs still have a chance, too.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is that a babelfish translation?
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bill smith think make for glorious maximized team group of baseball for exchange gentlemanly
player under soft new shine.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
evident the wash.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my face hurts
from banging my head on the table.
I don’t think he’s human.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One wonders
if said same writer hadn’t counted out the Cardinals at this point last year…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no idea how it will pan out
but I hope Duncan doesn’t keep bringing this up as we get closer to the playoffs
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, the PD will
remember 2007 and the LaRussa return watch.
by ubeddie on Aug 31, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it wrong?
That this makes me lose a bit of respect for DD. Seriously, you’ve been a coach in the majors for 30 years, and you can’t extract personal from professional. To imply that Chris was treated worse than any other Cardinal ever is ridiculous, and the fact that Chris got to be simply mediocre in the field isn’t exactly something the cheer about. The guy was an abortion in right field in the 06 season, and despite his 22HRs, the defense still counts. I get that it’s his kid, but if he can;t separate what was a sound business move (which he even acknowledges) from the it’s my kid approach he’s taking, then I’m really taken back.
by Cardsfan25 on Aug 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Someone needs to tell him Lugo the MIFer has outhit Duncan the "LFer"
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how DD acts around Lugo...
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't get
how it’s the Cardinals fault that Chris didn;t relay how bad his injuries were. Even LaRussa said that he didn;t know, and that if he had he wouldn’t have played him. I just can’t believe that a “professional” like Duncan is taking this as something personal against him. It’s OK for him to get it in his head that a guy is not good enough (Reyes), but when his own kid gives everyone the proof, like Chris’ sub .240 AVG he thinks they’re being “mean”. It’s completely ridiculous. I can understand having an issue with the developmental side of things, but to wrap all this up into one big beef seems rather childish…
by Cardsfan25 on Aug 31, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly I agree with you
This does seem a bit unprofessional, though I’m not sure if I hold DD accountable for that. He’s very attached to his son, and there’s nothing wrong with that. When you have family members on the same team like that, you take the chance that things will get messy. That’s just how it is.
However; I do think Dave Duncan makes one good point.
There needs to be stronger communication between the medical staff and the FO/Manager/Coaches.
How ridiculous is it that Chris could actually keep the fact that he was basically physically unfit to play from Tony when Tony is the freaking manager? How does that kind of information not get relayed to all the decision makers?
It’s completely unacceptable for such vital information to be kept from the guy who’s deciding who should play. It doesn’t help the team if he’s playing like crap. I don’t know if there’s some sort of legal code that prevents them from passing the information to the manager, but if there isn’t then this is a problem the organization NEEDS to address.
Pretty much FML any time Todd Wellemeyer touches a baseball or Joe Thurston runs the bases.
by Cardinals645 on Aug 31, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but I fail to see how it’s the teams fault…DD basically said his kid was extremely hurt, but even TLR didn’t know so who exactly is to blame…If DD knew how hurt he was, why didn;t he say something. He wants to get all protective Daddy now, why didn’t do it before? Maybe because his kid was fighting for a job, and he wanted him to do well…In the end Chris hurt the team, and if injuries were the reason, then DD should have said something as both a coach, and father
by Cardsfan25 on Aug 31, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
injuries aside
performance should have benched Chris. The training staff’s role, imo, was more towards not getting Chris on the DL and into surgery sooner. One issue to remember in all this is the HIPPA rules on confidentiality, even for family members, as well as the CBA. The training staff has to walk a fine line. Tony doesn’t have those issues to worry about when deciding whether or not to play someone performing at Chris’ level.
by ubeddie on Aug 31, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand there must be some rules
But if teams get to see the results of a FA’s physical, then why can’t they know the medical info for their own players?
Consider that ignoring an injury can impact a player’s value down the road. This is a huge issue for players with longterm contracts or under team control for a few years.
Pretty much FML any time Todd Wellemeyer touches a baseball or Joe Thurston runs the bases.
by Cardinals645 on Aug 31, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This goes one of two ways.
1. If the team doctors are allowed to share the information with team officials, then it’s an organizational issue because a team is run from the top down. So if information isn’t being shared widely enough, then the team is being run correctly.
Or, 2.
If the doctors are bound by law/hippocratic oath to keep that information confidential, then they should do a better job of making the player understand the risks involved in playing through an injury.
I’m not saying it’s all the team’s fault, but there is some blame to be shared.
Pretty much FML any time Todd Wellemeyer touches a baseball or Joe Thurston runs the bases.
by Cardinals645 on Aug 31, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he has any sense of self preservation
he probably spends most of his time averting his eyes respectfully.
by brackenthebox on Aug 31, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
appaprently
DD didn;t pay attention to the routine flyballs his kid couldn’t manage to get a glove on in 06. He was the worst fielder I have ever seen in Cardinal red, but the fans still supported him far more than most other cities ever would have…
by Cardsfan25 on Aug 31, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
he really didn’t start getting it from the fans until he stopped hitting.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can recall
there being discussion about trading Duncan after 06 because his bat was solid, but his defense was suspect, and thus he was best suited to be a DH. That’s not an attack, it’s the truth, but apparently in papa Duncans mind that was a ruthless, and uncalled for attack…completely ridiculous
by Cardsfan25 on Aug 31, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember a trade idea being floated around
A. Reyes
C. Duncan
C. Rasmus
for
D. Willis
WHEW
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it were
A. Reyes
C. Duncan
N. Stavinoha
for
D. Willis
It might have been a good idea (at the time). Of course, we’d now be saddled with a 7-year, $120 million contract to Willis that Jock would have signed him to that offseason.
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was never a big Willis fan
And I’m glad that STL never traded for him. He had a good year in 2005, when he won 22 games, but other than that, I’ve never been a big D Willis fan.
Carp (or Waino) for NL Cy Young!
by zoomzoomj88 on Aug 31, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if we win the 2006 WS without Reyes' pitching in Game 1?
Of course, we can never know that. I mean, if we didn’t have Reyes we may never have gotten shelled in Game 4 of the NLCS and won that series in 5.
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate that i paid hundreds of dollars to watch that game.
Only one I saw in person in 06.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes was tipping his pitches!
No really. He was. Started pitching from the stretch.
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DD
I wonder how DD acts around Lugo…
Probably with great reverence and a considerable amount of fear….
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
awesome.
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God forbid DD is ever the pitching coach in Philly and one of his kids plays for them
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a galaxy of laser pointers, dancing on his face
It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.
by YesWeOquendo on Aug 31, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'd be like Space Mountain.
Pretty much FML any time Todd Wellemeyer touches a baseball or Joe Thurston runs the bases.
by Cardinals645 on Aug 31, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't they build that ballpark?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always look forward to the random Ric Flair posting
Just win
by The Duke on Aug 31, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's kind of what I was thinking
..forget about the BFIB crap, but in reality his kid would’ve been treated far worse in the majority of the other baseball cities, save the ones that don’t compete, and thus don’t care…
by Cardsfan25 on Aug 31, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm...it's a fucking job
I think some people around here need to get some perspective on the personal v. professional. Who do you think DD shoud care about more and owe more loyalty to – his son or the baseball company he currently works for? If the answer isn’t obvious to you then a) you don’t have kids or a family you care about and b) your subjective worldview might be a tad out of whack.
Moreover, you don’t know what went on behind the scenes between the FO and Chris Duncan and the coaching staff and the medical staff. So, if DD thinks his son was treated shabbily by the organization, he’d probably know better than you since no one here really knows anything about that issue. And if he did believe his son was treated like shit, then why would he still work for the organization after his contract is up?
Your comments imply that the only thing DD should be weighing is whether his son should have been traded, DFA’d, or demoted given his onfield performance. But obviously, the objective question of CD’s performance is irrelevant and NOT the issue.
Sorry for the rant (a little), but I’ve been really taken aback by some of the comments here.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 31, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in all honestly
i would tell the company i worked for to go fuck themselves if they screwed over any of my family…i dont think Chris was screwed over here but like you mentioned i dont know what went on behind the scenes.
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
by nomar34 on Aug 31, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is why many companies don't hire relatives.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
by Tackle Box on Aug 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're always taken aback when anyone questions the coaching staff.
Don’t act like it’s something new.
I've made a huge tiny mistake.
by the red baron on Aug 31, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I actually wasn't taken aback, just mirroring the last sentence of the post to which I responded.
And it’s really weird to me why everyone cannot seem to grasp that DD’s gripe isn’t that his son was traded per se, it has to do with how he was treated throughout the last few years.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 31, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened that we don't know about?
Did members of the media kick Lil Dunc in the junk? For cripes’ sake, the guy wasn’t right for over a year and he still gets ran out there. Maybe instead of bitching about the way Chris was treated by the media, Dave should realise that maybe Tony should not have ran him out there when he was obviously not healthy enough to play, but no, it has to be the media and fans’ fault.
This is professional sports we are talking about, the media and fans are not always rational when it comes to professional sports. If Dave can’t figure that out and seperate his anger from his job, maybe it is time for him to hang it up or move on.
And geesh , all this is rambling coming from a fan of the Duncans. Wait, you can be a fan and still be objective about their faults, right?
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 31, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point had to do with....
DD’s perceptions about how the FO treated CD, though you’re right that he did complain about the “media” too. And I’m sure DD and TLR did discuss TLR’s use of Dunc and DD may well have a complaint with TLR, though I’m sure that stays in-house.
Again, I don’t think DD’s gripe is that his son was traded, it was the handling of CD’s situation by the FO over a period of several years. The focus on the “trade,” as if that ’s issue with DD, is misplaced IMO.
The meme here that “DD doesn’t know how professional sports work because he’s upset solely because his poor-performing son was traded” is really pretty silly to me.
It’s also pretty silly that some expect DD to separate his personal feelings about the situation from his “job” – as if the two could be separated or as if they should be. Hasn’t anyone here quit their job because they didn’t like the work environment? Because they got disrespected by their boss? Because their boss is an asshole?
Instead, most posters here, because they have no idea about the work environment or how Moz is as a boss, or what the slights were, or anything else, simply dismiss those factors and focus on what they do know -- a) CD sucked at baseball b) CD got traded and c) DD is upset. Then they take those three pieces of information and draw an incomplete and very likely fallacious conclusion.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 1, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT
Pretty much FML any time Todd Wellemeyer touches a baseball or Joe Thurston runs the bases.
by Cardinals645 on Aug 31, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
That is pretty damn lame.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sweet baby jebus
“lame” doesn’t even begin to cover it. That’s Braun-esque.
by Oedipa Maas on Aug 31, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Birthdays
So my family and I are going to the games on Wednesday and Thursday. My oldest son is turning 5 on Wednesday, and I wanted to do a birthday message for him.
I know I can do it online, but can I do it for both games (some of my family won’t be there on Wednesday to see it)? Secondly, is there anything else that they do for kids birthdays that I don’t know about?
by saladdays on Aug 31, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if you are lucky
and get down by the field for pre-game you may be able to get him a ball. Make sure that you let the usher/ball boy and any players that are within earshot that its his birthday. Good luck!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Aug 31, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion on Dunc crossposted from my FanShot
I would rather have Dave Duncan as the Cards pitching coach as opposed to not having Dave Duncan. However, it appears that he has limited skills. He is one of the best gameplanners there is (the best in my book). Whatever pixie dust he has found to revive the careers of veterans such as Williams, Kile, Lohse, Pineiro, and others is one-of-a-kind and a great asset. However, he is not the perfect pitching coach. He (and part of this falls on La Russa and maybe even Mason) allows veteran pitchers who have proven they cannot get the job done to continue to hurt the team while ignoring the alternative options either due to stylistic preferences (Welly over Boggs), sentimentality (Izzy over everybody else) or "veteranness" (both).
The St. Louis media is remarkably tame. When I am able to catch the post-game press conferences, few if any questions challenge the mighty authority figures. The PD writers have every right to call out players who are not performing. Fans have every right to expect to see the best product on the field and should critique the moves of the team. Duncan should be able to withstand the pressure that comes from a fanbase to make the best move. To me, this is simply part of being a coach in the major leagues.
On Chris Duncan; he has not been healthy since his breakout year 3 years ago. His performance since then has been atrocious. 2008 wOBA .318; 2009 wOBA .306, with UZRs well below average. He should not have been on the baseball field witht he types of injuries he has had. Plain and simple. That Chris Duncan was hiding injuries, hurting the team by playing as a shell of his potential with these injuries, and even refusing to take medical advice this year by skipping the appointment with the surgeon is unnacceptable.
It is interesting that Dave Duncan can see himself as a coach on a team that is not managed by Tony La Russa. I certainly have trouble envisioning that scenario.
Dave Duncan is not the General Manager. He is not front office figure. He is a pitching coach. To me, this means he is to coach the pitchers, assist the manager, be subordinate to the manager and the GM. Dave Duncan should not be involved in personnel decisions. it is Mozeliak’s job to bring in the best talent and create the best team. Duncan should not, therefore, have sway in the direction of the minor leagues, the free agents sought after (unless asked) the financial direction of ownership, the organization of the minor league pitchers and coaches, or the general philosophy of the organization. Jocketty or Riggins may have given him privileged input into the direction of the team, but he should not expect that just because of his tenure or success.
"I've got six players coming in who think they poop ice cream,"
by jacksonian on Aug 31, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
US Open starts today
Go Roddick!
"I've got six players coming in who think they poop ice cream,"
by jacksonian on Aug 31, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't like furry ballz?
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
by guayzimi on Aug 31, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go Nadal
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When my boss asks why I decided to leave work two hours early
I’ll tell him a guy on the internet told me to go home.
My near-future employment or lack thereof rests in your hands.
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calvin & Hobbes
Calvin: Mrs. Wormwood, I gotta go
Mrs. W.: Can it wait?
Calvin: I gotta go bad
Mrs. W.: Alright then
[Calvin walks through the kitchen]
Mom: What are you doing home?
Calvin: I had to go
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Aug 31, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+infinity
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Aug 31, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the last two seasons have been too lopsided
a ton of games in the first half of the season, then for August and September you get too many off days.
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like off days
the first half of the season was ruff
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but we're good now!
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but you don't want them all burnt out come october
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't tell me what i want!
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right, sorry. that's your wifes job right?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Over the line!
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark it zero dude.
"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
by RiverRat on Aug 31, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still have not seen that movie
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do it
But definitely see it more than once. It took me a few viewings to truly appreciate it
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don't fight the afterward desire to acquire White Russians
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Aug 31, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've been drinking those since 1985
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion on DD
I understand his frustrations surrounding his son, I really do. The only thing I don’t get is how he can’t let it slide. You’d think that he would understand the professional side of the deal, but for whatever reason, he can’t get past it. Maybe it wasn’t such a good idea that father and son were on the same team. Every fan knew that Lil Dunc was an awful ballplayer and needed to be let go.
I really hate to think of how DD could leave the Cardinals, since he’s been with the team as long as TLR has. More likely than not though, I see DD in a different uniform than a St. Louis one. He’s mad at the media, mad at how his son was treated, and doesn’t like the way things are run. Those three things, I think, are enough to make DD want to leave. I’d love to see him get past the issues and be back with the Cardinals in 2010, but I just don’t see it happening.
Carp (or Waino) for NL Cy Young!
by zoomzoomj88 on Aug 31, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Strauss is doing the rehashing
Duncan is on a self imposed boycott of the PD since Chris was traded.
The only thing I don’t get is how he can’t let it slide.
Duncan took a personal day and Strauss linked the event with Dave’s reaction last month. I don’t think Duncan is still pissed running around the clubhouse daily screaming at players and staff, he just isn’t going to bother with PD writers.
by ubeddie on Aug 31, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to me, if he leaves because of this
after he’s had a few months to think about the whole thing, he will be remembered as being either childish or unprofessional
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, Chris Duncan's seriously the reason the pitching coach wants to leave?
Really? The man went 1 for 27 in semiregular playing time the month before betting cut, while STILL GETTING SEMIREGULAR PLAYING time and his father’s bitching about him getting traded?
I mean, if his name was Chris Smith and part of what would become him didn’t come out of the team’s current pitching coach, when would they have cut ties with him? The ‘08 offseason? I mean, hell, if Duncan needs his yearly dosage of nepotism, how about we at least trade for the kid of his that can actually HIT? (Shelley’s leading the International League in homers, with 29.)
Thank god LaRussa only had daughters; otherwise we’d have to suffer through little Johnny LaRussa hitting .156 with 2 home runs this year.
by craig3410 on Aug 31, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well, that and combined with a lack of communication between staff members
it would make sense… then it would just be the catalyst
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know exactly how the trade went down for Lugo
For all we know, the Red Sox asked for Duncan. They hadn’t done the Victor Martinez deal and had a hole at first base with the uncertain health of Mike Lowell. They had added Laroche and had Kotsay playing a lot. They wouldn’t be sure a Martinez deal would be done, and may have been trying to stockpile as much 1b/DH talent as they could (as Ortiz at the time of the trade was starting to get mired in another huge slump).
From the outside, I don’t see how Chris Duncan was mistreated. He was given more than enough chances to play, and he was ineffective at best and hurting the team at his worst. It was amazing that he was involved in any trade at all, because on any other team (especially in the NL) he would have been DFAed.
by olddomination on Aug 31, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to me, he was the opposite of mistreated
it would be different if Chris had put up even decent numbers to warrant him staying in the lineup, but not hitting at a major league level coupled with playing subpar defense doesn’t win you playing time, and the general manager did his job by moving him since he was unnecessary (and was arguably playing too often, you can’t just expect him to start hitting every time you put him out there when he hasn’t been hitting)
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you limiting "mistreatment" by the organization...
to the objective question of whether Chris Duncan should have been traded (or DFA’d or demoted) given his onfield performance?
Is it because that’s your only frame of reference for the situation? Because Chris’ on-field performance is your only knoweldge of the situation?
It seems obvious to me that DD is not upset because his son was “traded” (even players who are playing well get traded), it is because of how is son was “treated.” And none of us really knows anything at all about that.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
we know that usually well behaved fans started getting pissed off at him getting a lot of playing time, and took that situation out on him. that’s what we know for sure. other than that, he was traded. is that bad treatment? I guess you could call it that.
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really find it interesting that Tony would not follow Duncan.
I thought he would. But I also thought he would be gone after Walt left too.
Duncan is a great pitching coach. Not saying we won’t have another great one after him. But this season would have been completely different without Dave Duncan.
by Evilfrog on Aug 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I was a little flabbergasted by that too
but there’s still a lot to happen
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony has just seemed more relaxed
And it doesn’t seem like it’s just the winning streak. His snipes at the press seem more playful and less acrimonious, he seems more physically approachable to his players, and he actually seems to know the rookies’ names. I mean, sitting down and telling The Hoff that getting sent down again wasn’t about his performance and to keep working … that just doesn’t sound like Don Tony.
Before any of the acquisitions, he was saying he liked this bunch.
I think if Albert stays, Tony stays.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was appeased by the Holliday trade ;)
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew there was something up
when he hugged Colby. wtf was that
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he finally got his man, hugs for everyone!
even you Cody
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Aug 31, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off-day distraction: better Cardinal outfielder: So Taguchi or Pedro Guerrero?
I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I don’t even know why I bothered to ask the question. In fact, its not even close. I mean, So has 354 wins as a Cardinal! He led the Redbirds to a .612 winning percentage in the 578 games in which he appeared. Guerrero won just 250 of his 499 games in a Cardinal uniform (.501). So knows how to win!
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so taguchi has two rings. carl crawford: none. nuff said.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can give me any number of stats for Zack Greinke
But the dude has never been to the playoffs. Jason Marquis has been on a playoff team for NINE STRAIGHT YEARS. Give me Marquis every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cliff lee is 12-10; jamie moyer is 12-9.
clearly jamie is a better pitcher, because he’s lost one fewer game.
maybe jamie could give cliff some pointers. that youngster could learn from a grizzled veteran like jamie.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't understand why Moyer's the one in the pen and Lee's the one in the rotation
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Lee is the better "thrower", but Moyer is the better "pitcher"
They are both real baseball players though
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loss column FTW
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oooh. Irony.
It’s like goldy and bronzey, except it’s made of iron.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
u c wut i did ther?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Sep 1, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pointers as in...
Deciding to throw his changeup as a fastball (in order to drop the 15 mph to reach the Moyer fastball level), then really slowing his arm down for the fastball so it becomes his changeup.
by Jumsy on Sep 1, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet I know who did more cocaine
and had more sex with OJ Simpsons wife.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, So was a wild man back in the day.
I've made a huge tiny mistake.
by the red baron on Aug 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't pedro guerrero mostly play first base?
for some reason I remember him playing at first, heh
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he definitely played the most at 1B now that I look
I was reaching into the memory bank. 7 year old all4tookie is dumb. Seriously though stop with this stat checking its a beautiful day out there
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised I can remember that heh
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Taguchi was never once struck out by li'l Henry Rowengartner
Advantage: Taguchi.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly related
I think Ryan Braun was a pitcher for the Cubs earlier in his career. Evidence:
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
both of them look like they wear Transformers pajamas to bed.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or power rangers
yeah, definitely power rangers pj’s
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 31, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Were power rangers around in Rowbulfungers day?
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fine
Voltron (ultraman?)
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 31, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 31, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GARDENHOSER!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 31, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved ryan braun's work in "Blast from the Past"
by DanUpBaby on Aug 31, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I had the same thought
Although “George of the Jungle” was a close second.
Well, I'm from Texas and my mama taught me to not piss all over myself.
by thepainguy on Aug 31, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Taguchi's name also functions as an exclamation or an adjective!
ex. This party is So Taguchi!
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Aug 31, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boog says he likes Pedro.
I’m kind of split, weirdly. I still remember Pedro, and of course who can forget the So Man.
Nostalgia could be coloring both.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take Pedro
but So will always have a place in my heart
Just win
by The Duke on Aug 31, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewcrew...
went ahead and kept Hardy down for more than 20 days, thus putting his free agency back an entire year. He’ll fetch more in a trade now, it is said. I wonder if they’ll get blackballed by the players over this.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
by guayzimi on Aug 31, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
are they all douches? is this like Douchebag City?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 31, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have absolutely no problem with that
it’s not like Hardy was knocking the cover off the ball. Nor is it like he’s not going to be in the richest ~0.0001% of the human population at the end of his career…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so Giants sign Penny
anyone concerned about him being the 3rd pitcher behind Lincecum and Cain instead of Zito?…yeah me neither
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Aug 31, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I'm just waiting for the Sox to release Beckett so we can pick him up for pro-rated league minimum
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd be way better in the NL
And then go on to suck in the postseason. The irony!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, have you looked at how Zito's been pitching since the All Star Break?
Barry’s back, baby! I saw the game on MLB network Saturday night-Barry got a standing O-he was magnificent. Anyone who wants a part of Barry right now hasn’t been paying attention.
I’d rather face Penny, unless I’m the Dodgers. He left LA land mad.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, and could you get Mike Adams for the bullpen, please?
by jillsinmo on Aug 31, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its too bad that the Giants only have him for four more years at $18m a pop
I bet they wish they could have extended him way, way longer.
After all, the days of him walking a batter an inning are long gone! He hasn’t done that since August 24!
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 31, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was tipping pitches for a really, really long time.
Randy Johnson finally noticed and helped him fix it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 31, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha! I didn't mention the contract.
Nice. He did walk 6 batters on that particular day. So? He gave up only one unearned run, and 3 hits in that game. He’s walked 19 in 56 1/3 innings since the break. A marked improvement for him.
I stand by my statement that I wouldn’t want to face him right now. That was a big game for the Giants on Saturday, and he came up big.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, and could you get Mike Adams for the bullpen, please?
by jillsinmo on Aug 31, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been a lot better this year
still, I think he’s a marginal #3. I think Penny’s probably better, and a fit Big Unit probably is too.
Zito still has a K/BB ratio of less than 2:1 (which I kinda feel is about the lowest point at which a pitcher can have any real success at major league level) and has been a bit luckier on HR than he has in the last couple of years. I still think he’s probably a below average SP.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His FIP this year is above average
And he’s getting a nice ammount of popups.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 1, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His taste is literature is surely irrelevant
although I imagine that’s not particularly rare in professional athletes.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 1, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
post season tickets
article at PD about registering for random drawing
by ubeddie on Aug 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't see
where i need to go on stlcardinals.com to enter myself into the drawing
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Aug 31, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
registration starting tomorrow
so the mothership might not be updated yet
by ubeddie on Aug 31, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sweet, thanks
getting to see a post season game for the first time in my life could soothe my the pains of not seeing a single baseball game live and in-person all season long
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Aug 31, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT (but hey, it's an off day)
anybody else going to the Illinois/Missouri game? Just got my tickets today and am getting a tad bit excited. (The juice will be loose in STL)
by STLRegalia on Aug 31, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope, but am excited to see it on TV.
Just can’t get amped up to watch football inside a dome on what will probably be a beautiful 80 degree day outside.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
aww shit, dawg
`
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Aug 31, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the dome your stuck in there...
no windows. It’s like going to a movie…
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
by guayzimi on Aug 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah domes suck
apparently twins fans will be treated to thier escape from a dome here soon. i as a packers fan hate that when i get to see my team play here in st louis I have to do it in a tuna can that feels colder at 70 degrees, than snow and freezing temperatures feel at outdoor stadiums. stupid lambs
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 31, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is of course except in hockey
go blues!
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 31, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply