Breaking down the Cy
by chuckb on Aug 27, 2009 2:00 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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PrintAnother great start by Adam Wainwright has thrust him front and center into the NL Cy Young discussion. Just think of where he’d be if not for a relatively rough start to the season. In April, despite having just a 2.76 ERA, Wainwright walked 18 in 29.1 innings. Many of us were trying to figure out what the hell was wrong w/ him and how effective he’d be. At the same time, Carp went on the DL w/ a side injury and our rotation didn’t look near as potent as it appears right now.
Despite Wainwright’s April control problems, May and June were actually his worst months. His walk rate fell considerably but he gave up 11 homers in just 75.2 innings in those 2 months. His May ERA was 3.80 and his June ERA was 3.82 – not horrendous by any stretch but still a far cry from how he’s pitched over the last 2 months. In July and August, Wainer’s thrown 82 innings and has given up exactly 3 homers. He walked 13 in 46.1 innings in July and has walked exactly 1 in August – Manny Ramirez in the 5th inning on the 19th. Wainwright’s ERA was 1.17 in July and 1.26 in August. His OPS against was .581 in July and .566 in August.
Wainwright leads the NL in wins and innings pitched. He’s 4th in ERA at 2.50. Of course, Carp’s 1st in ERA and will attempt to tie Wainwright for the league lead in wins this afternoon. He’s 5th in the NL in Ks and 7th in RAR. Let’s look at the major contenders for the Cy as we head toward the final month of the season.
| Record | ERA | IP | HR | K | FIP | RAR | tRA | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Carpenter | 14-3 | 2.16 | 145.2 | 7 | 111 | 2.77 | 38.8 | 2.54 |
| Cain | 12-4 | 2.39 | 177.1 | 17 | 133 | 3.90 | 28.5 | 4.12 |
| Lincecum | 12-4 | 2.43 | 185.1 | 8 | 214 | 2.23 | 61.4 | 2.56 |
| Wainwright | 15-7 | 2.50 | 187.0 | 15 | 157 | 3.35 | 38.2 | 3.58 |
| Haren | 12-8 | 2.73 | 181.0 | 22 | 173 | 3.27 | 43.1 | 3.35 |
| Johnson | 12-3 | 2.99 | 165.2 | 12 | 142 | 3.15 | 37.3 | 3.61 |
| Vazquez | 10-9 | 3.14 | 169 | 17 | 186 | 2.85 | 44.8 | 3.29 |
| Jimenez | 12-9 | 3.36 | 174.1 | 9 | 154 | 3.27 | 44.4 | 3.19 |
In looking over these numbers, the first thing I notice is that Joel Pineiro’s going to get screwed in the Cy Young voting. He ought to be in this group but w/ Carp and Wainwright having such outstanding years, Pineiro’s not going to get many votes at all. They’re bigger names w/ more wins and Pineiro’s fantastic season is going to be relatively unnoticed by the voters.
Next – forget about Vazquez or Johnson. They’re not going to make the playoffs, Vazquez has always been underappreciated and no one knows who Josh Johnson is. Jimenez and Haren won’t have much of a chance either. Haren’s team is awful and Jimenez’s ERA is too high. Of course, he plays for the Rockies and his numbers are fantastic. Plus, no one knows who he is. These 4 will deserve a better fate.
Some have complained that Wainwright and Carpenter may take votes away from one another. Is it possible that Cain takes some votes from Lincecum? Probably not but some will see Cain’s ERA as being lower than Wainwright (if it remains lower) and Cain’s number of innings pitched as being higher than Carp’s and put Cain too high on their ballot. I think it’s pretty clear right now that Lincecum is the favorite. If he’s not, he should be. There are only 2 things holding Lincecum back right now and both are stupid reasons not to vote for him. The first is that he has 3 fewer wins than Wainwright (and hopefully Carp after today) and the second is that the Giants are not likely to make the playoffs. Neither of those is Lincecum’s fault. He’s the best pitcher in the NL and, if the season ended today, deserves the Cy Young.
That said, Carp and Wainwright are probably both in the top 3-4 right now. Carp’s held back by the fact that he missed about 6 weeks worth of starts earlier in the season and Wainwright’s numbers just aren’t quite as good as Lincecum’s. Hopefully, he can continue pitching the way he’s pitched over the last 2 months and force some voters to put him above Lincecum on the ballot.
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I'm not sure
But it is sorta impressive that they’ve gone 12-8 in games where they didn’t use a starting pitcher.
The other team can't generally hit it as far off of a tee.
The whole no momentum thing…just sayin.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 27, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Fun Fact
For Carpenter to have a 2.77 FIP with 145.2 home runs in 7 innings, he would need to have a 945 strikeouts and zero walks. So yeah, that’s fucking impressive.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
That's a lot of dropped third strikes...
But he wouldn’t have to worry about it if he’d quit tipping his pitches.
V, b.
I think the problem with the dropped strikes is actually Yadi tipping his catches.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Lincecum
I think there is about a snowball’s chance in hell that he doesn’t win the Cy Young. He is that good.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
I dunno
I wonder if the season finishes now, you’ve got Carp, with a great comeback year, more wins, and a superior ERA. That’s kindof what the voters look at. Also, as we saw in 06, they tend to dislike giving the CY to guys they gave it to the previous year.
Additionally, Waino’s got a shot at 20 wins. I reckon if he continues to pitch as he has done, he could just about finish with 20 and a similar ERA. I think they’ll find it hard to give it to Lincecum if he’s got 4 or 5 fewer wins than Adam.
Next – forget about Vazquez or Johnson. They’re not going to make the playoffs, Vazquez has always been underappreciated and no one knows who Josh Johnson is. Jimenez and Haren won’t have much of a chance either. Haren’s team is awful and Jimenez’s ERA is too high. Of course, he plays for the Rockies and his numbers are fantastic. Plus, no one knows who he is. These 4 will deserve a better fate.
Hmmm, I see your point chuck, but I sort of feel that they will deserve their fate – that is, none of those four should be winning the Cy Young this year, and none of them (with the possible exception of Vasquez who’s been about as good as Wainwright), because they’ve not been as good as Carp, Waino (arguably) or Lincecum.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 5:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Carp's year (and last year...and the year before) hurt him.
He’s going to get the Comeback Player of the Year Award and I think some voters might figure since he’s getting that award, someone else should get the CY
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
If this was any other ordinary year for pitchers
and if Albert Pujols wasn’t ridiculous, and Hanley Ramirez wasn’t a badass, Carpenter could conceivably , if he wins the rest of his starts, be in contention for the Comeback, CY, and MVP.
Boy do I love me some Chris Carpenter.
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Didn't Cliff Lee get the comeback award
and then win the Cy Young?
Man, with this outfield, need to get rid of that Rasmus, no Ankiel, wait no, Rasmus wait...To hell with Ankiel FREE KOBE RAMSIS
I don't know.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
IF ONLY THERE WAS SOME SORT OF NETWORK OF CONNECTED COMPUTERS AND SERVERS WE COULD LOOK THIS UP ON!
Or, just a series of tubes!
He did, yes.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Like some kinda inter-web?
Or an e-net or net-tron or something. This idea has got legs I tell you!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
If it has legs then step on it.
We can’t have something like that running around, it might get out of control. People might start devoting all their time to it. Nothing useful would ever be done again.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 27, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
you silly
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
yup..kinda the point i was making too.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
That would never work.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
If the seaon finishes now
He has my vote. But if it finished a month again Wainwright wouldn’t even have been in the top 5.
Little help
Can’t find a coherent definition of FIP or RAR… specifically what they are, why they’re relevant and what would constitute a good rating/score
Thanks
FIP stands for "Fielding Independant Pitching"
It is basically what a player’s ERA would look like if he had an average defense behind him, and had neutral timing. It’s based off of strikeouts, walks and homers, which are really the only 3 things that a pitcher has control over. Balls in play, are often subject to bad or good luck. Just ask Joel Pineiro today! Because FIP is based off of more controllable skills, it correlates better year to year and is a better indicator of a players real ability. tRA is a variation of FIP using batted ball data, such as LD, GB and FB rates.
RAR is how many runs a player would contribute to an average player over a “replacement level pitcher” (think Todd Wellemeyer). It’s based off of FIP and is pretty straightforward. Say you have Waino, who has a 3.35 FIP in 187 innings. A replacement level pitcher would have an FIP of around 5.50, so in those 187 innings, Waino would allow about 45 fewer runs. Then those are park adjusted, because Wainwright plays in a pitchers park, so his numbers will be a little bit deflated. That’s how you get the number shown above.
Did that help?
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s based off of strikeouts, walks and homers, which are really the only 3 things that a pitcher has control over.
I never really like that description of FIP (not that I dislike the stat, I feel that both FIP and tRA have their advantages and disadvantages) but the whole “K/BB/HR is all a pitcher controls” trope is a bit unfair on tRA IMO – it’s pretty clear that pitchers have significant control over whether they get their outs on the ground or in the air (although I believe the relative value of each out is very, very similar).
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm giving him the simplified version
It’s also clear that pitchers don’t have as much control over K’s and BB’s due to quality of hitters faced, ballpark, and most importantly random error in missed calls by umpires.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions
completely agree
about the calls by the umps making a difference.
Going by my recent numbers
There is an SD of .25 runs per 9 for all pitchers based off of random missed calls.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah that could be pretty significant over a whole season
of course, the SD will not equal SD for one game x number of games, but I’m assuming it will certainly be multiple runs, if not even into the double figures. Pretty significant, and interesting.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah that could be pretty significant over a whole season
of course, the SD will not equal SD for one game x number of games, but I’m assuming it will certainly be multiple runs, if not even into the double figures. Pretty significant, and interesting.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
please don't give Wellemeyer the honor of calling him a replacement level player
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, Waino's just checking to make sure he wasn't sweating in that pic
“Any sweat in the old hat? Nope, dry as a desert. Lemme just sniff this armpit…yup, smells good.”
fyi
carp’s innings and HR allowed are switched in the chart
Holliday: "Albert, Carp and I have been talking about it and we think we know what your problem is. You've been tipping your swings." I expect no further problems.
they're?
The guy who really needs to come back to earth is Julio Lugo. He flat-out sucks, or at least he did until he sold his soul at the foot of the Gateway Arch. by Not Bruce Froemming BCB
fail?
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 27, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
they're
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I am confusulated.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It's so hard to tell with you.
You’re always so serious, how can we tell when your being sarcastic?
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Guys, Matt Murton Dfa'd
Career .345 wOBA in over 1000 major league at bats, and has a 9.2 career UZR/150 in nearly 2000 innings in left. Plus, he’s only 27 and was mashing in Triple A. He’s free, isn’t going to be a free agent for 3 years, and still has options left.
Am I missing something? This is a 2-3 WAR player, who can be treated and paid like some AAA scrub – why haven’t teams lined up to get him yet? He’d be a good backup plan for us if we don’t resign Holliday next year.
Smoltz.
was he just DFA'd or released?
Could they just be trying to send him to the minors? Though a few days prior to september I don’t know why you would do that. But DFA doesn’t mean able to be signed always. If he has options left though they would have just optioned him, something is fishy here.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I'm pretty sure he's released
He was already in AAA, so there’s no need to play shenanigans like that. They released him because they had to make room on the 40 man roster for Juan Rincon.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
released or just DFA'd to get off the 40 man roster?
Just DFA’ing doesn’t always mean release though it very well could in this case.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
seems like it is just to get him off the 40 man
DENVER — A day after calling up two outfielders from Triple-A Colorado Springs to take the place of a disabled outfielder and an optioned relief pitcher, the Rockies balanced the books Wednesday, reinstating reliever Juan Rincon from the disabled list and designating outfielder Matt Murton off the Major League active roster in preparation for optioning him back to Colorado Springs, where he’d been a day earlier.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090826&content_id=6631640&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
possibly the best used "heh" of the season
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I beg to differ
heh
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
At first I thought you were talking about Ricardo Rincon
That would really be funny
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
hahahahahahaha
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Some guys look much better on paper, i suppose.
Then you watch them play and you think “ugh”. Heck, even Billy Beane had him and didn’t want him anymore.
I think his biggest negative (negatives?) is he’s slow as hell, doesn’t hit for any power, is not very good in the field, and has a crappy arm.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Well
There is a point where his stats outweigh scouting. And they suggest he is an above average hitter and fielder.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I know what you're saying and I get it.
I’m just saying, if a guy like Billy Beane (who once coveted Matt Murton) found no use for him in relatively short order, then I think we should all take notice.
Also, “above average hitter”? His career ops is .791 and his ops+ is 101. Isn’t that about as average as it gets with the stick? And don’t we all consider “average” to be much below what we want on the team? Isn’t Brad Thompson “average”?
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Billy Beane is nothing more than an idealogue
it’s all about winning stuff to dry hump in this league
by STLRegalia on Aug 27, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So we're using OPS+ now?
Are you serious? Do you have any idea the flaws in that stat? His career wOBA (WHICH ACCURATELY REFLECTS RUN SCORING) is .345 compared to a league average of about .330 during that span. Over his 1000 or so plate appearances, that’s about 15 runs ABOVE AVERAGE.
And that Billy Beane shit is bullshit. He’s not perfect. I’ll repeat, in over 1000 PA in the majors, Murton has been an above average hitter and defender. He is also in his prime, 27, and is coming off of a very good year in AAA. Fuck Billy Beane.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks for freaking out.
but once again you keep saying “average” and I happen to see people throw fits around her all the time when the discussion of Brad Thompson and the term “average” comes in to play.
You obviously know a hell of a lot more than i do, i’m stuck in like 2008 or something, hell, I still like to use B-R when I know I should be using fangraphs and for that, I apologize. So, I guess I’m not up on the latest definition of “average”. I thought Brad Thompson was average. Apparently Matt Murtong is better than Brad Thompson. Fantastic.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Maybe Brad Thompson is replacement level, not league average?
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Look down one more post, retard
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Just to let others know
You were referring to yourself.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Aug 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
don't be so hard on JD, JD
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
i'm not quite sure WHAT Brad Thompson is
but he sure as hell ain’t average
nobody who looks like that and kills small animals is “average.”
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I read that as...
nobody who looks likethatand kills small animals is "average."
And I thought he does kinda look like a baby animal…?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
like a baby seal
Holliday: "Albert, Carp and I have been talking about it and we think we know what your problem is. You've been tipping your swings." I expect no further problems.
So we’re using OPS+ now? Are you serious? Do you have any idea the flaws in that stat?
I think comments like these are a chief contributor to people calling advanced stats confusing, calling those that use them nerds, and then continuing to use batting average.
Take a deep breath and read Justin Inaz’s (the guy who compiled WAR before Fangraphs had UZR) “Why Do I Keep Using OPS?” writeup for more perspective on OPS vs wOBA.
OPS is a lot better than the status quo, and I’d be pleased as punch to see it on every scoreboard and hear it on every broadcast. And once people are see the benefits of deeper analysis (“hey, this OPS thing does seem to tell more of the story than AVG…”) I would expect them to be more willing to embrace further statistical improvement.
His career wOBA (WHICH ACCURATELY REFLECTS RUN SCORING) is .345 compared to a league average of about .330 during that span. Over his 1000 or so plate appearances, that’s about 15 runs ABOVE AVERAGE.
In deeper nerd territory, nothing’s perfect. wOBA published at Fangraphs isn’t park or league-adjusted, and according to ESPN’s park factors all the time Murton’s played save Oakland has been in hitter’s parks (CHN 05, CHN 06, CHN 07, CHN 08, OAK 08, COL 09). His wOBA+ by year according to Statcorner is 112, 106, 106, 64, and 106. The average Statcorner wOBA (counts reaches on error, doesn’t count SB/CS, etc.) for the specific leagues in which he’s played is .337; Fangraphs .329 wOBA is MLB-wide.
And that Billy Beane shit is bullshit. He’s not perfect…Fuck Billy Beane.
And I think this cheapens any argument. Facts speak for themselves. Emotions? Hrmph.
I still think it’s safe to say he’s a nice plus with the glove and a slightly above-average bat.
by astrostl on Aug 27, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Billy Beane is not infallible,
and throwing him trade of Murton out there as evidence that Murton isn’t valuable is not evidence. Beane got rid of Murton because he had too many outfielders and Murton was the most expendable one.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Wow, It's funny that I mixed in facts in those last two sentences
And that Billy Beane shit is bullshit. He’s not perfect.
I’ll repeat, in over 1000 PA in the majors, Murton has been an above average hitter and defender. He is also in his prime, 27, and is coming off of a very good year in AAA.
Fuck Billy Beane.
Looks different know huh?
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I used a proper ellipsis to denote that the quote was truncated.
I personally consider the “mixing” of facts to be irrelevant; if there is no emotional cursing, it’s just an assessment – no mixing necessary. I quoted the gratuitous elements because I was referencing them independently, and attempting to make the point that what you typed doesn’t add anything, and can only take away.
To answer directly, it doesn’t look different to me. Your antagonistic “Wow it’s funny” and “huh?” lines – while completely ignoring the main points of my post – are unsurprising but still disappointing. Isn’t clinical objectivity a keystone of technical analysis? I think you can be a better analyst and ambassador than this.
Jesus fucking christ
You can’t use elispses when trying to show intent. I stated that Billy Beane was wrong, and I backed up with facts, or at least a solid foundation of an opinion. Your way of phrasing my quote was disengenious, and that’s why i was acting rude to you.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 28, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
(double-response, the one below was meant for this thread)
Caustic emotion itself was the subject being discussed, so that’s what would have been quoted even if it happened to bookend the world’s truest fact. I suggested that level of response isn’t warranted, and in response to that I’ve gotten much more of it without offering any myself. It wasn’t disingenuous, and – as before – there’s still no justification to be rude.
A hypothetical:
/ Son of a shit fucked fuck
Someday we’ll find it
The Rainbow Connection
The lovers, the dreamers and me
Shitty shitty bang bang fuck /
If you took task with my use of expletives, would you be misrepresenting me or quoting out of context if you were to omit the chorus to Kermit the Frog’s “Rainbow Connection” in response?
It’s not as if you said the opposite; the basic sentiment was still “Fuck Billy Beane.” I’m not offended by salty words, I just think it makes your position seem less objective and that arguments should strive for objectivity. You won’t have to draw conclusions for people if you present solid facts, because they’ll be obvious.
Why do you give a crap how I present my opinions?
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 28, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he likes you
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 28, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a part of my environment. Unscientifically-presented science – most notably negative – belies to me the nobly objective goal of SABR. I’ve interacted with you in the past, hope to in the future, and also hope that interaction is cool and thoughtful. And to a specific point, I’d personally like those that publish and speak for the “community” to be perceived as helpful ambassadors rather than snarky elitists because there are enough problems with that perception already. Let’s encourage people to embrace the goal, right?
Also, are you seriously arguing that OPS is as good as wOBA?
You know that is OPS doesn’t properly weight OBP and SLG. It sounds like you are just arguing for the sake of it.
Your point about park factors is good, but it still doesn’t make Murton a below average hitter. Murton still has 8.6 career park adjusted batting runs according to FanGraphs.
Obviously, I wasn’t trying to push a new statistic on anyone. However, Tackle Box challenged my correct assertion by using an outdated and wrong stat. I felt my reponse, without caps maybe, was perfectly acceptable.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 28, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
“Are you seriously…” is another bad way to start a dialog.
Also, are you seriously arguing that OPS is as good as wOBA?
Nope.
“I think comments like these are a chief contributor to people calling advanced stats confusing, calling those that use them nerds, and then continuing to use batting average.”
This was in reference to looking down one’s nose at OPS+ users.
“Take a deep breath and read Justin Inaz’s (the guy who compiled WAR before Fangraphs had UZR) "Why Do I Keep Using OPS?" writeup for more perspective on OPS vs wOBA.”
This provided a link which highlighted how close OPS and wOBA are.
“OPS is a lot better than the status quo, and I’d be pleased as punch to see it on every scoreboard and hear it on every broadcast. And once people are see the benefits of deeper analysis ("hey, this OPS thing does seem to tell more of the story than AVG…") I would expect them to be more willing to embrace further statistical improvement.”
And this stated that I think if people continue accepting OPS (ESPN, Chase Field scoreboard, etc.) I think it will make it easier to accept deeper stats – like wOBA.
Your point about park factors is good, but it still doesn’t make Murton a below average hitter.
I agree that it doesn’t, and I already stated the opposite: “I still think it’s safe to say he’s a nice plus with the glove and a slightly above-average bat.”
However, Tackle Box challenged my correct assertion by using an outdated and wrong stat.
The “outdated and wrong” OPS+ gives Murton a career 101. wOBA isn’t adjusted, but wOBA+? 103. Is a two (2) point difference really worth this tempest in a teapot? I use wOBA myself by default, but I think we’re talking about a quick and dirty scale along the lines of “bad/average/good.” I think OPS+ suffices for that, and I wouldn’t want to push someone on a more SABR path away with elitism.
I felt my reponse, without caps maybe, was perfectly acceptable.
It’s not my job or position to defend Tackle Box, but let’s keep it real:
So we’re using OPS+ now? Are you serious? Do you have any idea the flaws in that stat?
Like your responses to me, that isn’t the way to conduct respectful conversation.
OPS is not nearly as good as wOBA on an individual player level
It correlates well on a team level, because most teams have a similar distrubtin of OBP and slugging. Matt Murton on the other hand, has an OPB 25 points above league average, but an average slugging, which means he will be underrated by OPS.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 28, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Murton has a career 101 OPS+ per Baseball-Reference.
Matt Murton has a (manually calculated) career 103 wOBA+ per Statcorner.
I think that rests the concern that OPS+ underrates Murton in particular to the point of mattering. I’m aware of the pros and cons of standard OPS-based metrics and how “abnormal” OBP/SLG profiles can affect them, but despite not using it myself I’m just not leaping to criticize those that do.
He's above average
That’s the point I was trying to make. And while a difference of 2 points of OPS+ isn’t amazing, it isn’t insignificant.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 28, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The “problem with OPS+” just seemed to me a position in search of a supporting fact. His unadjusted wOBA looks decent, but I don’t think that calling a 103 (or a 97) wOBA+ “average” is nearly unfair – I’d sooner say that than “above average” if only using words.
I also think he’s a steal of a deal, and hope that he at least manages to find his way toward a platoon position on a friendly team.
Caustic emotion itself was the subject being discussed, so that’s what would have been quoted even if it happened to bookend the world’s truest fact. I suggested that level of response isn’t warranted, and in response to that I’ve gotten much more of it without offering any myself. It wasn’t disingenuous, and – as before – there’s still no justification to be rude.
dude
Matt Murton SUCKS
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And no
Brad Thompson is not average. He is replacement level. An average position player is worth about 9 million of the free agent market.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
So, "average" is better than "replacement level"?
I thought it was the other way around. I’ll never remember this stuff.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
replacement level
is AAAA level, someone that any farm system just has loads of or can get on the minor leageu market and pay major league minimum for the rest of the year
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
but he is soooo clutch!
Obviously clutichiness isn’t taken into account when determining a replacement level player
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 28, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
average > replacement level.
replacement level players are “freely available talent”, and are (roughly) average fielders and far below average hitters.
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
How do you rate replacement level pitchers?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Aug 27, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
5.40ish ERA in the rotation
4.50ish ERA in the bullpen.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
gag I hate that reliever rating
I’ve always felt that the theoretical determination for that ERA was way to low.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
i feel ya on that
I always thought starter’s replacement level is to high and starters are overvalued by metrics. Their doesn’t seem be enough starters with negative value
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, starters with negative value don't often pitch in the majors
That’s why it’s called “replacement level”
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
just not sure about WAR for pitchers
I have preferred WPA
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate WPA too.
I think the MLEs overestimate the availability of capable relievers in the majors.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
WPA is pretty convoluted for sure
esp for pitchers, as it is really pitchers + defense
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I just don't care for the contextual adjustments
it applies to relievers. If you your relievers pitch the first three innings of the game and your starter go the last 6, you’d see a completely different result. I don’t care for the leveraging aspect.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
but the 1st inning is less valuable
than the ninth
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't beleive I just saw you say that
How is any inning more “valuable” than any other? Didn’t we prove that Tuesday night by scoring 1 run in the first then holding it the entire game? Maybe I missed the sarcasm.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Exactly
Which is why I never got TLR’s late-inning defensive substitutions. Defense is valuable every inning. I guess his logic is that, when ahead, preventing the other team from scoring is more important than scoring yourself? But, if you’re down a single run, run prevention is still rather important.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Those make a lot of sense
If you’re up by 1+ runs, the marginal value of allowing 1 run is way higher than the marginal value of scoring 1 run. Defensive substitutions might be one of the ways teams could in theory beat their Pythag come to think of it.
Not afraid to nitpick
Less chances to come back
It is that simple
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
That is saying that
a run scored in the first is less valuable than a run scorred in the ninth just because the other team has more chances to score. In the end the teams have the same number of innings to score.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
That is not what it is saying
It is saying that a run scored in the first inning of a scoreless game is less valuable than one scored in the bottom of the ninth of a scoreless game. It is saying that a Sammy Sosa Special (solo HR, 7th inning, changing the score from 8-2 to 8-3) is less valuable than a go-ahead homer in the top of the eighth.
WPA has lots of limitations. It doesn’t separate pitching from defense. It doesn’t separate hitting skill from plain luck (errors, etc.). It doesn’t separate good baserunners from advantageous RBI-men (when Albert made the mad dash from 2nd against Colorado last year, he recieved no credit and Ankiel got all the glory for grounding out to the right side).
But it also doesn’t get “mad” when your backup MI serves up 7 runs in an emergency pitching appearance; it says, “Who gives a shit? You were already down ten runs.” It looks at Kip Wells and says, “Gee, thanks, Kip, for shutting down the other team for innings 2-5. It’s too bad that it doesn’t mean crap after you let them bat 11 deep in the first.” It gives more proper credit to Albert’s Easter 3-HR performance than some dolt’s trio of jacks off strung-out relievers in a 15-2 blowout.
I am probably the biggest proponent of WPA on this board and I’ll be the first to tell you that the stat has enough issues to be handled with some speculation. But that doesn’t mean that it should be dismissed either.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
Well...
I go back and forth on this and I’m not entirely sure I understand it. but I think the thinking goes thusly: scoring in the ninth inning means more than scoring in the first, because the other team has fewer opportunities to counter-act it.
Think about scoring a goal in the fifth minute of a soccer game. The other team has lots of time to come back. But if you suddenly break a 0-0 tie with a minute and a half left, that goal means more.
I can see how this is useful in certain kinds of analyses. However, it could also be easily abused.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
At the very least WAR is doing closers way wrong [begin tangents]
#1. A closer in the real world is going to be used in high leverage situations, so the value of the runs he allows will naturally be higher than say a mop-up guy. That’s just the way it is. I don’t know how much credit you should give the player himself for this, but in constructing a team it is important.
#2. As such, in the real world, the best reliever is usually going to close or at the very least be the setup guy. Every team has a pitcher better than a generic replacement level reliever if only by accident (say the “throw every free reliever at a wall and see what sticks” method that finds an Aardsma by simple virtue of selection of the best out of that group), thus I’m almost positive that a replacement level closer is better than a generic 4.5 ERA replacement reliever.
#3. A clear closer chains down your entire relievers and this actually matters due to leverage. Your previous best reliever is now your #2, your #2 now your #3 and so on till you bump off your worst guy. Your whole bullpen gets better in a greater way by way of leverage than bumping a bench player off the roster.
So IMO the value of a dominant closer is done all kinds of wrong by straight WAR, and intuitively looking at the numbers WAR doesn’t make sense. The Twins only lose two more games with Aaron Heilman closing instead of Joe Nathan?
And this is one of the few areas where I would say the unquantifiable effect of psychology has to play a role too. I don’t know how much that would be obviously, but there have to be mental bonus points for having Rivera winning every game vs. a Balky Hip Isringhausen donating 9th inning leads away.
For a starting pitcher I couldn’t really care less about WPA. A pitcher’s potential WPA positive or negative is affected greatly by his own offense’s ability to score runs. That’s exactly what we’re trying to avoid.
Not afraid to nitpick
Which has Wellemeyer
As the worst pitcher in baseball
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don't think a 5.5ish ERA is too high
If you’re picking up the Jeff Weavers and Sidney Ponsons of the world, are you really expecting better than 5.5 ERA?
Not afraid to nitpick
Someone (not on VEB) did a
great post a few years ago when Todd Ziele retired, remarking that Ziele’s career numbers just about nailed “league average” for the era of his career.
And clearly, though not a player any of us were probably excited about, Ziele was definitely not replacement level.
If you had a team with 23 average players and 2 superstars, that would be a fine team.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
but every time you plug a Joe Thurston in, you’re actually losing something (probably more than normal replacement players because Thurston can’t baserun or play defense either_
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Who said Beane had no use for Murton?
He used him to acquire Matt Holliday. Does that mean we had no use for Mortensen or Wallace? No, it meant you have to give up something to get something. It doesn’t mean that Beane didn’t like Murton just as it didn’t mean that the Cards didn’t like Wallace.
Matt Holliday was traded to Oakland for Huston Street, Greg Smith, and Carlos Gonzalez
Matt Murton was traded to Colorado for Corey Wimberly.
And, in three months, Murton played in 9 games for Oakland and 32 with Sacramento. I’d say Billy Beane had no use for Matt Murton.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
"In exchange for Murton, the Athletics free a 40 man roster spot, an outfield from overflowing, and Wimbley"
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a-pair-of-trades
Sweeney, Buck, Davis, Holliday, Cust, Patterson, Cunningham. Plus Murton that’s 8 OFs for 3-4 positions.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
what's your point?
because i still fail to see where Beane had a use for Murton because you’re saying he wasn’t better than any of those “outfielders” (Patterson is a utility player who has yet to see MLB playing time this season).
Beane dumped him to make room for Holliday. He didn’t use him to acquire Holliday, he dumped him off the roster for a 25 year old middle infielder who’s yet to make it past AA so they could add Holliday.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Moving goalposts.
You said Beane dumped Murton because he had no value. He traded Murton to free up the opportunity cost of Murton’s roster spot. You were wrong.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
So his only value to Billy Beane was that he was holding a spot on the 40 man roster?
On the Oakland A’s……….
When can we sign this guy!?!
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Yes, please!
Of course, his being a former I-Cub may be coloring my perception of his skills.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He's left field only and
he tends not to have any power.
If he could play center, he’d be awesome. I’m surprised his UZR is above zero. You certainly can’t tell that by watching him play.
yeah, awesome, just another excuse for us not to play Colby every day.
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Am I missing something? This is a 2-3 WAR player, who can be treated and paid like some AAA scrub – why haven’t teams lined up to get him yet?
He’s a ginger?
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
No
I have blond hair. But on a related note, I wouldn’t sign me either.
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, your picture looks like you have red hair
I assume that’s you, right?
So yeah, Gingers have to be off limits.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's the real reason McGwire won't make the Hall of Fame.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 27, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Definitely me
My hair does look a little darker than usual in that picture
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
burn them!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been found out!
I must flee VEB!
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Red power!
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Shut up Fritz!
Holliday: "Albert, Carp and I have been talking about it and we think we know what your problem is. You've been tipping your swings." I expect no further problems.
Matt Murton seems like he should be older than 27 to me
It seems like he’s been on the list of players that, inexplicably, can’t seem to stick anywhere despite being perfectly decent, forever. 27 isn’t very young anymore but it isn’t exactly old either.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
agreed
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
don't the cards already have rule 5 issues?
would this exacerbate them?
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Aug 27, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
if picking up matt murton
means jon jay gets claimed, so be it
even if murton spends the rest of the season in AAA, he can be our fourth outfielder next year when ank walks or he can be the lf if holliday doesn’t re-seign
do we necessarily need him? no. but he’s depth. then we can use him or jay or craig or sugar shane and pick up some rh relief or fill whatever othe hole pops open
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
we have like 60 guys (no joke)
That have to be on 40 man roster next year or be exposed
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish we'd just traded for him, instead of Holliday :-(
I realise the Matt trade is probably going to put us into the post-season, but a big part of the reluctance of folks on here to consider a Murton trade was that he was effective, a proven average-to-slightly-above-average major leaguer, and cheap, thus Colorado would value him and potentially ask for something good in return.
It turns out they actually don’t value the guy at all, and we could’ve got a 2-3WAR LF for a bag of balls and kept Brett Wallace. Poo.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's trade Craig for him.
They both need to be free.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
"no one knows who Josh Johnson is."
LOL – when I first looked at the table, I thought, “Which Johnson is that? Randy’s not having that good a season, is he?”
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Ha! I thought the same thing.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
I'm sad to say that I almost thought maybe it was Randy Johnson
then I thought “… wait a minute, there’s a Johnson who pitches for Florida… right? What’s his first name again? Johnny? Jack? Joe?”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I had to look him up on B-R
Since I was thinking he played for Colorado, for some reason.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
He's on my BOAB team.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
You're missing one reason not to vote for Lincecum, chuck...
The crotchety old BBWA writers don’t like rewarding guys two years in a row, especially young guys who might win more Cy Young’s down the road. I mean Clemens’ only cheated won seven of the damn things, so Lincecum shouldn’t win more than 5 unless he cheats wins more games than Clemens does. Know what I mean?
/rant
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
"get off my idol's level"
BBWA says Clemens is a GOD
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Maybe if Lincecum got a dang haircut he'd deserve a Cy Yound and more wins and run support.
Hippies. Didn’t Timmy learn anything from Ben Affleck paddling him mercilessly in “Dazed and Confused”?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 27, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's also a defender for Spain's national soccer team
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Steve Phillips says...
…pitchers earn their run support. If Lincecum set a better vibe of vibiness in his clubhouse, his team could play more relaxed and would routinely put up 12-15 runs/game MINIMUM. However, he clearly does not, so therefore his record is an accurate reflection of his ability.
Boom.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
That's how you win ballgames.
Seriously though, run support is kind of interesting to me. I’ve been wondering if crappy pitcher sometimes get good run support because they consistently end up facing other crappy pitchers? I would imagine it’s more common for #5 type pitchers to face each other than for low rotation pitchers to face upper rotation pitchers. I would think this could lead to the offense simply doing better on those days because the opposing pitchers tend to be worse. This would get messed up by off-days and what not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something to it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I've thought about this as well.
Shouldn’t be that difficult to study…
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Hopefully
So, someone should do that study. Just not me… because I’m too lazy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
beer!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think I am starting to get too excited when Waino pitches
This man is starting to become a St. Louis Cardinal legend, right here in our own time. Maybe I am overstating it a bit, but after that magic he had his rookie year, and the total shutdown pitcher that he is giving serious hints of becoming right now, I just think that maybe, just maybe, we are witnessing one of those special talents that our fathers (and mothers) witnessed when Ol Number 45 was on the mound.
Am I crazy for thinking that ^?
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Waino and Pujols
are both similar to me, I mean isn’t the feeling you get when Waino takes the mound much the same type of feeling you got when Pujols went to the plate in 2005? Both kind of came out of nowhere their rookie seasons and became something great really fast.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Yadier Molina.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Very similar
Yadi though took a bit longer, he came up as a backup (I know that is similar to a releiver) and his bat took a few years to season. He is becoming that type of guy now, especially the glove work, but just a few rungs down…and he is my favorite right now
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
To me, Yadi is even more a of a thing.
He doesn’t have the natural tools Wainwright and Pujols yet through constant hard work, he has turned himself into a really good baseball player. They way he and Pujols work together is like the Harlem Globtrotters. They’re just always thinking the exact same thing.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
"This guy has a funny head, let's pick him off."?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
GLOBtrotters?
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
G@#$@)#* Left On Base!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
are you?
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
possibly
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Aw crap we're stuck in a time loop.
I knew I shouldn’t have divided by 0.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Aw crap we're stuck in a time loop.
I knew I shouldn’t have divided by 0.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I haven't eaten
since later this afternoon.
HERE comes Albert, HERE comes the throw...
by Hummingbird on Aug 27, 2009 10:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Great film.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Getting aggressive with your posts, I see...
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 27, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I strongly believe
Waino is in the process of becoming a Halladay-esque pitcher. A workhorse who will give you 200+ innings and sub-3 ERA every year for the next 6-7 seasons. He’s already got that going for him this season. The only thing missing is the CGSO’s
No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.
by RunninRedbird on Aug 27, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
So a much less discussed pitcher award
Is Joel in line for the Gold Glove this year?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I think Maddux has one more left in him
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
considering he hasn't pitched this year?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
That'll make it closer
but Maddux will still get votes.
by StanTheManFan on Aug 27, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly what I was thinking
These are the people that vote on GG. I would not be surprised if a few managers thought he was still playing.
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
or they'll just give it to Smoltz
Smoltz, Maddux, Glavine, what’s the difference anyway
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter
No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.
by RunninRedbird on Aug 27, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Naw, they'll give it to Maddux again
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
That somehow reminds me of the Deadspin headline when McNair was shot
It was something like “Steve McNair shot and killed, probable for week 1”
/please don’t turn into another football subthread, for the sake of everyone on VEB who doesn’t like football
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
How bout them Irish
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Beautiful lasses
and terrific beer. What’s not to like?
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Aug 27, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gingers
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Gingervitis, to be exact
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Technically
The Scots are the gingerest people in the world.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Technically
“The Scots are the gingerest people gingers in the world.”
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 27, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They make a fine brew!
BRILLIANT!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 27, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe we can start a write-in campaign
or Tweet in campaign. It’s not like ESPN knows where St. Louis is.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
amen to that
I thought he deserved it last year, too. Remember his crazy kick-save play?
Logan Franklin saves our goat-beard
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2009-08-27-2976705954_x.htm
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
thats great
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
hahaha.
“Why,” he said, “did I wait eight years to learn a sinker like this?”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
On lincecum
as waino would say, “he’s already got one, he doesn’t need another”
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
"What?"
“He says they’ve already got one!”
“Are you sure you’ve got one?”
“Oh yes, its very nice…(I told them we’ve already got one!)”
“Umm, can we come up and have a look?”
“Oh course not! You are English-types!”
“Well what are you then?”
“I’m French! Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king!”
;=8)
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
Run away!
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 27, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
More pluses for Lincecum and even Cain
I was looking over BR’s pitching leaders and noticed that Lincecum and Cain both lead the league in complete games with 4, Pineiro, Haren and a couple others are tied for 3rd with 3, Carp is tied with Marquis, Happ, Lee and a bunch of others with 2.
But what gives Lincecum an even better shot is his 2 shutouts tied for first with Joel, Happ and Arroyo.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Brad Penny: released by the Red Sox
Link
The good:
Penny is still striking out 6.1 batters per nine, with a K/BB ratio of 2.1. His numbers are a bit inflated due to a .336 BABIP (19% LD rate), and his timing has been below average with a strand rate of 64.4% vs. avg. of 71.9%.
Without a pitch fx database (yet), in his last start against the Yankees his fastball sat around 95, topping out at 97.6. By all indications he is 100% healthy.
The bad:
He is giving up 1.2 HR/9, and while his HR/FB% is in line with career norms, his FB% of 40.1% is a career high and his GB/FB rate is just 1.02.
The ugly:
His tRA is 5.21 (his FIP is a bit better, just about league average at 4.45), and batters are getting on against him at a .350 clip. In 101 batters faced in August, opponents are OPSing .953 against him (for what that is worth).
Does anybody think a flyer on Penny is realistic/worth it? He is set to clear waivers on Monday, and then could be signed by any team. Perhaps another solid start by Smoltz over the weekend could further gild Duncan’s reputation as savior, and with a little needling get Penny back to the NL. Why not get a RH arm for the stretch? I mean, he’s a Red Sox reclamation project, it has to work.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
but MooCow
he is a former Red Sox!
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
It would be quite pennywise
considering he would probably cost less than $100 grand. Not bad for a league average pitcher whose fastball averages 94 on the year.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Meh...
..I am not impressed with his pitching this year. Besides, don’t we already have enough average to below average pitchers on the team? Does he push Smoltz out of the rotation? Lohse? Motte? He has said he does not want to come out of the ‘pen. I think the team has ’gelled’ (a word I know u sabr-nicks hate), and see no need to force an-udder new face into the dugout.
My hovercraft is full of eels!
:=8O
or we could just get him to spite the Red Sox
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Have you checked out "my" tutorial on BtB?
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, thank you for doing that
I’m trying to get some time away from my work computer to get it done. I’ve just been using Brooks Baseball till I can get it up and running.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Jeff Zimmerman has a SQL dump of every pitch
If you know how to use SQL. Although there is some data missing.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Well it’s obvious
he is tipping his pitches.
by RedJoker on Aug 27, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's funny because it's true.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
+1
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
How many useful players...
re the BoSox going to dump this season? I think you have to kick the tires here…if for no other reason than to get exclusive negtiating rights into November. He’d cost you around $90K, and might still be worth a compensation pick if offered arby (currently 5 points out of type B range in the AL). He could also be an excellent RH’d setup option!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
clearly, a lot.
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
i'll take it.
at worst, he gives us a guy who could probably come out of the bullpen and throw 97 for an inning
at best, i’m SURE he could be better than lohse right now.
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
and i would also love to see us sign him for cheap for next year
and have him be a 4 starter.
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
i wouldn't resign him - except for super cheap - but he'd sure be a nice arm in the seventh.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
well i'd assume he'd be supercheap
he signed with the sox for 5 mil for a season. then he sucked it up this season. i bet we could get him for 3 mil, which in terms of starting pitching in MLB IS supercheap.
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely worth it, IMO.
Of course, I wanted the Cards to sign him in the offseason. If nothing else, throw his 97-mph in the ‘pen. Unlike the other 97-mph fastball guy, he has secondary pitches. IF he can be had for the minimum, then I’d absolutely bring him on. The strikeout and walk rates are heartening. If not now, then we should explore bringing him on in the offseason.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Bullpen could use a RH that can dial it up to 97 and throw strikes.
I’m in. Plus, he already knows Smoltz and Lugo.
Pretty much FML any time Todd Wellemeyer touches a baseball or Joe Thurston runs the bases.
by Cardinals645 on Aug 27, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
boooooooy this would be interesting
I was interested in Penny over the winter.
FWIW
ESPN still hosts a page tracking the Cy Young “standings,” as determined by a Neyer/James formula—and right now our Mr. Wueno holds a slim lead.
NB: the formula isn’t meant to evaluate who ought to win the Cy, just who is likely to win. In trying to reflect the priorities of voters, it disproportionately rewards things like win totals and team success. And it’s usually pretty accurate.
HERE comes Albert, HERE comes the throw...
It's called the last 8 or 10 in a row...
correctly.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
That makes me wonder if it's a
self fulfilling prophecy then…lol. All the voters look here to see who they “should” vote for, and then vote that way.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
of course not
reporters always do their own research
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 28, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
so based on that
Franklin is our 3rd best candidate
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
It goes a little haywire with relievers...
mainly because the voters are wildly irrational when it comes to dealing with them.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
Bullshit
You are flat out wrong. I will now edit your comment to make it not totally wrong and life-force-sucking…
It goes a little haywire with relievers mainly because the voters are wildly irrational.
when it comes to dealing with them.
There. Good day. Heehee…
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 27, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
If the season was ended today
You would add up to 12 more points for the Cardinal’s and subtract points away from Lincecum for the bonus of winning your division
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
How exactly is Ryan Sucklinhausen 6th on that list
damn midwest bias.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 27, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
did chuckb really say this?
Joel Pineiro’s going to get screwed in the Cy Young voting.
who would have thunk that last year? or this year?
Joel did (at least according to me)
Pinero cruising saying to himself: "Self, you are a certified bad ass and Puerto Rico is missing out on this year’s NL Cy Young winner."
by STLRegalia on Mar 7, 2009 10:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Looks like I under estimated Joel
I’m going with Joel Pinero- pissed off from not being a starter for Puerto Rico will dominate ST and win 13 games this year
Wallace – hits better than everyone, including Pujols, during ST and forces TLR to play him.
- I’ve never been good at these games
by STLRegalia on Feb 18, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was way off on the Walrus prediction, but he turned into Holliday, who, since getting here, has probably hit better than pujols
clearly you need to post moar during ST
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
ST posting FTW
Carp (or Waino) for NL Cy Young!
by zoomzoomj88 on Aug 27, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with this.
Jo-El’s strikeout rate just isn’t high enough for me to consider him over other pitchers with comparable stats but higher K rates. To me, that type of dominance is indicative of being awarded the Cy Young. Call me a fascist, but that’s how I feel about the award. I realize some true democrats will disagree with me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not that I think Jo-El is the CYA winner
But K-rate alone has no more bearing on pitching than GB-rates and BB-rates.
Not afraid to nitpick
BB rate, no.
I think the best indication of a pitcher’s skill is ability to strike batters out and to not walk batters. I think GB-rate is way down on the list of having bearing on a pitcher’s skill. I think the Cy Young winner should be dominant, which, to me, means he doesn’t walk many batters and strikes out a lot of batters. As for non-strikeout outs, I don’t really put any weight in whether they are by the flyball or groundball.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
GB-rate implies a lack of home runs
To me it’s about preventing runs. Is it not? I don’t care what (provided it’s sustainable) formula he’s doing to get there, and preventing bombs is huge in doing that. Brandon Webb has/had nothing on Ricky Nolasco on K/BB, but he’(wa)s simply better.
Not afraid to nitpick
Sustainability
I am not talking about constructing a staff; I am talking about who should be the Cy Young award winner. If players are not putting the ball in play as often because they are striking out, a pitcher is more dominant, in my opinion. The fewer balls in play, the fewer opportunities to score runs. Likewise, with walks. The fewer baserunners, the fewer opportunities to score runs. So, for the Cy Young, I would vote for a pitcher with few walks and more strikeouts over a pitcher with few walks and less strikeouts. I would not base my Cy Young vote on GB% much at all.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
They Cy Young is about "dominance" and not pitching well?
Would you rather have Ricky Nolasco with his much better K/BB ratio this year or Brandon Webb circa 2007? How does preventing home runs not create “fewer opportunities to score”?
Not afraid to nitpick
It's about both.
If you have two pitchers who have done well at preventing runs, then I would give the Cy Young to the pitcher with more strikeouts. Between Carpenter and Pineiro, for instance, I would give the Cy Young to Carpenter over Pineiro. Both have low HR rates, both have low BB rates, but Carpenter has struck out more batters. That’s just me, though.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I wouldn't base it on GB%
I’d base it on preventing runs, and Piniero has done a fantastic job of that. To me, a low tRA (or ERA for you BBWAA voters reading this, or not) is the most important factor. You can be dominant by never allowing anyone to hit the ball hard even though a lot of guys put the ball in play against you. If a guy strikes out 4 out of every 5 hitters but that fifth guy hits a home run 1/3 of the time, I’d much rather have the groundball pitcher who gets 4 out of every 5 guys out on ground balls while that fifth guy finds a hole for a single or a gap for a double every fifth time. Couple that with a low walk rate, and you’re going to be very good at preventing runs, unlike an A.J. Burnett, who can strike out a lot of guys, but put a lot of guys on base in the process, thus leading to the occasional three run homer because he gives up a lot of home runs.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I am a know-nothing...
but I completely disagree. I think GB pitchers are close to equal with strikeout pitchers. If a pitcher has a low K rate he better have a high GB rate, and vice-versa. BB rate needs to be kept low regardless of K or GB rate.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize the Cy Young is named after a guy with a career K-rate of 3.43, right?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I'd love to see either Carp or Waino win the Cy
but, realistically, I don’t see a chance of that happening. Lincecum is too good, plus Carp doesn’t have the innings. Waino would probably have the best shot of the two (Carp & Waino). I’d have it like this:
1. Lincecum
2. Waino
3. Carp
Carp (or Waino) for NL Cy Young!
If
Wainwright and/or Carp win 20+ games and Lincecum ends up with 16 or so, the voters will see that a lot more than K/9, FIP, RAR, tRA, ect. (IMO)
yeah.
i think this is very underrated. the “mystique” of being a 20 game winner (especially if you’re the only one) is a big deal. if Waino goes 20-8 on the season with a 2.50 ERA and 200 strikeouts, and Linceum goes 15-5 with a 2.43 and 275 K’s, even if by any metric Linceum CONTRIBUTES more, all the voters are going to have that big-ol 5 game win gap staring them in the face. i’d like to see what the biggest gap win-wise between the league leader and the cy young winner has ever been (researching now). i doubt it’s very high (in the obvious exclusion of relievers winning the cy)
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
NL win gaps
2008: leader: Webb 22 Cy: Linceum 18
2007: leader: Peavy 19 Cy: Peavy 19
2006: leader: Webb 16 (tied) Cy: Webb 16
2005: leader: Willis 22 Cy: Carp 21
2004: leader: Oswalt 20 Cy: Clemens 18
2003: leader: Ortiz 21 Cy: Gagne 2 (disregard)
2002: leader: Johnson 24 Cy: Johnson 24
2001: leader: Morris 21 (tied) Cy: Johnson 21
2000: leader: Glavine 21 Cy: Johnson 19
1999: leader: Hampton 22 Cy: Johnson 17
1998: leader: Glavine 20 Cy: Glavine 20
1997: leader: Neagle 20 Cy: Pedro 17
so this proves nothing. whatever :P
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
2005 seems like so long ago, doesn't it.
I suspect this is especially true for the D-Train…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Denny Neagle
Tee hee
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
sometimes i forget ortiz was good.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I agree.
It’s very simplistic, but that 20-win mark can really sway some voters.
As a heeter, I'm no afray of ennybodie.
- APu.
I know I'm not the first person to point this out (in fact I just learned it recently)
But tRA isn’t scaled the way that FIP is, correct? So you would usually expect tRA of a pitcher to be higher than his ERA or FIP. Cain’s tRA of 4.12 is actually pretty darn good. Carpenter and Lincecum have tRA numbers that look like Cy Young ERA numbers. Holy crap those two are pitchin’ good.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yes, to get tRA on an ERA scaled *.92
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 27, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Pineiro tRA is 2.94
Just for the Record
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
tRA is directly related to
THE NUMBER OF SINKERS YOU THROW
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Piñeiro is awesome
Gah. It still feels weird. I might never get over this.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's actually a little less wierd if
you accept that he really is inhabited by the ghost of Christy Mathewson.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Or we could just start calculating it on an ERA scale
like every other pitching stat rather than an RA scale to satisfy one person’s leaning. . .
/grumble grumble
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
btw, OT but via BJRains on twitter
Matt Holliday on 1380 this AM: “This is a baseball city that’s second to none. Hopefully, I will be able to be around here for a long time”
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
MIDWEST NICE IS STARTING TO WORK GUYS KEEP IT GOING
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
MOAR PIE !!!11! !!!!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
meanwhile in the City of Wind
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4423669
Milton Bradley said he’s experienced plenty of hatred during his rough first season with the Chicago Cubs after signing a three-year, $30 million contract. Bradley has been booed at times by the impatient fans at Wrigley Field during Chicago’s disappointing season.
Left fielder Alfonso Soriano, who’s also struggled this season, said ignoring the fans who boo is the best way to shut them up and off.
“You cannot listen to those fans because they pay their money, they can do whatever they want. But if you listen, they want to do it more,” Soriano said. “But if you ignore them like `I don’t care,’ they want to get tired.”
why do players sign with the Cubs again?
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
in all fairness
i’d boo milton bradley and soriano too
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
well Aaron Miles is a double-agent, so there's that.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Tom Boswell slams Cubs in today's WaPo
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
meh. he gets negative style points for citing RBI's and pitcher W-L records.
teh cubbies suck is not a story.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Oh my God!!
I forgot they signed him for 3/30. I would boo Jim Hendry every time Bradley stepped on the field.
We bitch a lot about the Lohse contract this year, and the Pineiro contract last year. Hell, we even complained about Carp’s extension. But we haven’t come close to some of this crap the Cubbies are stuck with for the next few years.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
WOW HOLY SMOKES KEEP WITH THE PIEZ!
WUD U LIKE MOAR PIEZ?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 27, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Time to bust out the big guns.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
yesterday's mix-tape
I finally effin figured it out (with thanks to Evil Frog)
1. Hit Me With Your Best Shot
2. Broken Wings
3. Funky Town
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
this cardinal season is brought to you in part
by the musical collection “Now that’s what I call eighties music: In case you were too coked out to recall the eighties” [volumes one through twenty-eight].
i don’t know about you, but I never actually need to hear any of those songs again. first, because none of them are in fact that good. second, because they have been absorbed into my DNA after having heard each of them approximately 7,000 times. when i am in the nursing home — or the space nursing home, or whatever they have in 2057 or so — and i have forgotten my children’s names, i will still be able to sing “take . . . these broken wings . . . and learn to fly again . . . learn to live, to love so free, yeaaahh.”
oh, sweet death panel of the mid-21st century.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 27, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but if they win, it will become popular again
retro rules
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
And mail me mine
Unless you already have, I just haven’t gotten it
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
negative
I order T-shirts online. Like a shit load with even extra’s. But the order’s kept trickling in. So I might have to make another order soon.
Speaking of does anyone have any interest in hoodies? Right now Hanes has them super cheap for good quality ones.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Cool...as long as my WS celebratory photo album has me wearing it, I'll be happy
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
yes
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
22.50 for a hoodie right now
vs 15.00 for a T-shirt
I got a good deal on some hoodies but it won’t last long. I only got 3 more left
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Part the Red Sea?
ugh….I suppose someone had to go there, right?
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
So can get the hoodie for $22.50?
I think I’m down. What are the color options?
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
Red Hoodie with Black Ink
Blue Hoodie with Red Ink
Blue Hoodie with Black Ink
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
i wantz one
Red Hoodie w/ Black Ink, size large
Do I need to e-mail you?
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
I will be a trickler soon
Look for my order. Also interested in a hoodie, if its a good one and not a crappy one.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
It is actually a really good one
I hate crappy quality T-shirts and Hoodies
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks for all the hard work
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Aug 27, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been meaning to ask you...
I’m thinking about ordering a couple, but would it be better to wait a while until so things calm down? I figure you’re probably pretty busy making them and I don’t want you to be further swamped. Of course, I also assume you’re not going to be making them forever so I was wondering if you’ll stop taking orders after a certain date?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yeah i was gonna ask just about the same thing
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't see why I would stop making them
I am somewhat swamped with orders right now. But that isn’t really a problem. The problem was finding a good supplier of shirts. I hated the local supply of blue shirts. They were too thin and was not impressed with them.
So now I am just waiting for the shirts to come in.
I will actually probably just switch to long sleeve shirts and hoodies in winter time. I don’t see why I would stop making them. I already made the screen for them.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Coolness
I’ll probably order a couple soon then.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Is there a fanpost or fanshot that shows what they look like?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
look at my sig
That is a link to my Fanpost
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
definitely let us know when you add long sleeve if you do, Flim
think I’ll still order a regular tee but long sleeve is my style, so I’d like one of those too
i can do it pretty much any time
I just don’t have any samples. I honestly want to do a dress shirt. I have done a few of my own polo’s
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I might have to consider a polo...
I’m not much of a T-shirt guy. Would the screen print be on the back, or kindof smaller and where a pocket would be?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i did it on the front of my polo
I got paint on it from another project and just painted over it
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to maybe send you a polo
if you’d be willing, or to at least take a peek at one of the polos you’ve done for yourself.
I will upload a pic of it later
It doesn’t look that good honestly. It was kind of mess up that I redid but still looks original as hell
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Flim
I sent you an email last week on Friday but haven’t heard anything back about a shirt. Do I need to resend or did you get it?
1 part Douchebag, 3 part Hipster!
resend it
I can’t find it. I normally respond back quite fast. I can’t find your e-mail
My email is FlimtotheFlam@gmail.com
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
via BJRains twitter
lineup:
2B Schumaker
SS Lugo
1B Pujols
LF Holliday
RF Ludwick
CF Rasmus
3B DeRosa
C Molina
P Carpenter
damn i really thought today was the day Luddy was gonna get his shot in the 2 hole
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
Boog would be bored anyway.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
he's... happy.
gasp.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm just glad Dick isn't playing
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
That's what she said
And that’s how we figured out Aunt Margaret was a lesbian
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Menopause, maybe
She’s just not that impressed
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
Wow, yes I am totally expecting
To see the getaway day lineup with Molina at 1st, LaRue, Thursty, etc.
but we are at home so there is no "getting away" to do
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I think you'd see a "Tony" lineup.....
if we hadn’t just had Monday off, and if we didn’t have next Monday off as well.
I actually almost posted this morning that it might be a good day to rest AP and/or Holliday. Then I remembered that Carp is pitching, saw that AP and Holliday have hit Moehler well, and remembered the days off. Play the A Team.
Matt Holliday. Nuff said.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Play the A-team?
AWESOME!!! We get to see Pujols hit in front of B.A. Barrakus!!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
no, no
He meant we get to play against the A-Team. We need our best lineup because you just know their manager’s plan will come together, and he will love it.
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 27, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Hannibal can definitely outmanage TLR.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I miss Boog already
I will get over it though
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
want some seeds?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
i like everything about this lineup except the lack of boog and luddy not hitting #2. but what are you gonna do, as tony lineups goes this is a good one
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Tony's just as ready as the rest of us for us to put up a 10-spot on Brian F. Moehler
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
oh god don't jinx it please
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
PLEASE move Luddy out of the 5 spot
He hasn’t hit for hist since being moved there…try something different TLR!!
You love to go on and on about putting guys in front of Pujols to get them going again. Get on with it!!!
Milt Thompson FTW!
wow....interesting way to spell shit there
Milt Thompson FTW!
Is it just me or is TLR
riding Yadi awfully hard?
Does he want to just wrap up this division title ASAP?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
well there's that
and then there’s the fact that our backup catcher has a Pornstache
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
it isn't just you
I hope Yadi has something left in the tank for the hypothetical postseason
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 27, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking the same last night
he’s not getting many days off since Wellemeyer and his non-existent personal catcher went away.
Shut up, Fritz™.
Since the all star break
Yadi has started 34 of the cards 38 games. That is a lot but if you look at it with the off days it is not as bad. Using the off days, Yadi has started 34 games in 42 days since the all star break.
Could be concerned about the opposite – Larue is getting rusty
He'll probably get multiple off days
in September.
Love Rasmus in the 6 spot
I want to see him run more.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Holding hands with Skip
through a flowery meadow.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i just love number 28 in general.. he's fire burning in the outfield
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Why you gotta bring that up?
Carp (or Waino) for NL Cy Young!
by zoomzoomj88 on Aug 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
because i love her
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
awkward
And can no longer be 500 yards outside of a school or Chuckie Cheese
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
That seems like the best spot for him. Put Molina 7th and anytime Rasmus is on, send him, and take the DP out of the equation.
by Merry CRasmus on Aug 27, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Forget it.
He’s going for that smooth home run.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
+1
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
I like that lineup.
Bravo, TLR.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Need to hit Moehler today
it was embarrassing last time we faced him
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
Isn't he still unbeaten against us?
Carp (or Waino) for NL Cy Young!
by zoomzoomj88 on Aug 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Small sample size
1 – 0
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
sorry should have done more research :(((
3 – 0 w/2 ND over the last two years
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
Me like
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Luddy dodges a bullet, or worse
damn i really thought today was the day Luddy was gonna get his shot in the 2 hole
Luddy is ecstatic that you are wrong.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 27, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Road to Wellville
Oh, no, no, I can’t eat 15 gallons of yoghurt.
Oh, it’s not going in that end, Mr. Ludwick.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
Very disappointing for Wainwright
The only 3 times since July 1 has he not gotten a win and all 3 times he pitched 7 innings and gave up exactly 2 runs.
All 3 of those starts should have been wins for him…..would have probably made him a shoe in to win if he was sitting at 17 or 18 wins right now.
Milt Thompson FTW!
Yeah, but all pitchers have
that kind of luck … pitching great but getting NDs or even Ls.
Reason number 4,338 for why wins and losses are a lousy way to measure a pitcher.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure Lincecum has...
1.5 or 2 starts that he should have but didn’t get the win for every such start that Waino has.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
He's got more than that...
8 innings, 0 ERs, 0BB, 13 KS, ND
7, 1, 1, 9, ND
7, 1, 1, 10, ND
7, 2, 1, 7, ND
8.2, 2, 1, 7, ND
8, 3, 0, 9, L
Wainwright, Haren, and Cain all have a similar number of these. Carp is the one Cy contender that’s mostly avoided the tough luck.
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
It's not luck with Carp.
He’ll beat the shit out of someone if they don’t score more runs.
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
"Get on base next inning or I'll throw my Samsonite right at your stupid face."
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'm happy you qualified yourself as being the red joker. As well as capitalization.
Otherwise we were gonna have to throw down.
Not afraid to nitpick
Swimmy...Swammy...
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
He'll hire their...
“luggage” to do it.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
one of those was against Moehler
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
The irony!
The horror!
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
he also got
a bunch of wins early in the season with mediocre outings
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Interesting things, awards
I like when my favorite players win awards, but I want them to deserve it. If Lincecum has a better claim to the Cy Young by the end of the year, I would actually be disappointed were the BBWAA to give it to someone else, even if that someone else were Wainwright or Carpenter.
Also, I kind of had assumed that maybe Clemens really deserved the Cy Young in 2005. He did have that sub-2 ERA, right? Rally’s WAR index has Carp with 4.8 WAR that year, whereas Clemens is at 7.2. But, Fangraphs tells a different story. They have Carp at 6.8 versus Clemens’ 6.1. Carp’s tRA is slightly better for the year. He pitched more innings (although Clemens did pitch about 211 innings himself) and Carp’s K/9 and K/BB type numbers seem to be better or close enough to make it a tie. So maybe I was wrong about 2005.
Next, I shall convince myself that Albert was truly the 2005 MVP (I’ve also always had my doubts about that one).
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Is anyone else having issues with the table?
There is this big blank space up there
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions
yeah but don't worry
it just happens every time we’re talking about really, really good pitchers. i think it’s just a bug in the SBNation software
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
tired meme is tired
it wants to sleep
DANNY HAREN
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
now that's one visitation girl who has really let herself go.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Yes.
I’m tired of it too. Also tired of:
“Boog :(” and it’s variants
anything “hipster,” even bashing
pie
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
i don't think Boog is a meme
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
it isn't
It’s his actual family nickname.
I wouldn’t use it if there weren’t so many Ryans, tbh.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
:(
aw
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
You're tired of pie?
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
she's a witch!
burn her!
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Not in real life.
Just tired of it in my internet life.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Well,
September begins OPERATION FRIED CHICKEN, leading into October’s OPERATION CHILI.
Shut up, Fritz™.
But that
makes November OPERATION BLOCKED ARTERY!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
If we are getting meme hate off our chest
Well I always disliked the Franklin Sucks one
Cause I think he is good and wish we could talk about it more often
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Joel
I hear many people say the win loss record is overated…and usually I disagree…however look at how well Joel has pitched to be saddled with L’s when the team was playing poorly…withut stat checking it has seemed that he was the pony for no runs early in the yr. according to yahoo he has only 3 no decisions… but I believe he should have several more wins by his name this yr…
Im not sure how big of a factor QS are in the CY voting and maybe those are overdone too..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
well SBNation's just eaten 3 of my posts
screw them. Suffice to say – Murton good, Holliday trade bad. I was confused about something. I thought something VEP said was interesting. That’s the cliff notes. Jeez.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
I firmly believe that posters earn their technical support.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
fair.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 28, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Steve Phillips told me so!
And that’s all I need.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Alfonso Soriano's Contract
Did you realize that Soriano makes $18MM in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yes. Yes I did.
And it brings me great joy.
My Cub fan friends all thought I was just jealous when I made fun of that contract when he was signed. They all agree with me now.
Shut up, Fritz™.
i was so excited when they signed him
Vernon Wells here Soriano comes
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
But isn't Wells' contract more ridiculously backloaded?
Like, all of a sudden he starts making over 20 million?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Had a similar
“I don’t know when we’re gonna be good again” conversation with a Cub fan buddy of mine. He was rattling off all the aging dudes making lots and lots of money. He somehow forgot about Soriano, so I had to politely remind him.
unbelievable isn't it
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
ROFLCOPTER
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see your ROFL Copter and raise you...........
A LOLCANO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 27, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
where teh crap
do you guys come up with these things? I teach college kids and I’ve never, ever seen/heard of either.
you know how they're all on their laptops?
…..yeah.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
+1
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
in my day, all we were doing was stealing music.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
that's a background activity now
in a week or two i will be browsing VEB like it’s my job during class
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
I'm on VEB in class as we speak
Baseball goes hand in hand with Quantitative Economics right?
Not afraid to nitpick
it really does.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
of course
sabermetrics man
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
the graduate students
make the LOLcats.
Because they have cats.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
:O :O :O
http://icanhascheezburger.com/
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
oh my gob.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
wow. just. wow.
So…(prepares to show his age), what’s the deal with the (hopefully) intentional misspellings?
it is the first language born of the interwebs
by brackenthebox on Aug 27, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
put together a lolcat powerpoint of your next lecture.
see how it goes.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
make sure you have tenure first.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
wiki sez
A lolcat is an image combining a photograph, most frequently of a cat, with a humorous and idiosyncratic caption in (often) broken English—a dialect which is known as “lolspeak” or “kitty pidgin” and which parodies the poor grammar typically attributed to Internet slang. The name “lolcat” is a compound word of the acronymic abbreviation “LOL” and the word “cat”.1 A synonym for “lolcat” is cat macro, since the images are a type of image macro.2 Lolcats are designed for photo sharing imageboards and other internet forums.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
oh GOOD LORD man
then again, I’m in I.T. so I know it even though I’m old. sorry.
http://www.acc.umu.se/~zqad/cats/
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
be prepared to lose an entire afternoon laughing your ass off
see also: Failblog
A slightly different sense of humor, but game threads will make a lot more sense….
or BCB.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm usually pretty good in game threads
Of course, if folks start LOLcatting around and junk, well, I’ll have to find something else to do while “working from home.”
it's basically the internet version of
America’s Funniest Home Videos, except no Bob Saget and no commercial breaks.
Also, to help a bit as well,
<ahref=“http://www.threadless.com/profile/157345/ecky_ducky/blog/222233/Which_is_the_best_LOLCAT_ever_Huh” target="new">here’s a thread of a bunch of funny lolcats. I think that meme is a bit tired now, but there are some that consistently funny ones.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
Total fail.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
wait wait wait
If you’re a college football fan than you haven’t been fully introduced to LOLcats until you’ve seen the Big TweLOLve series over at RockMNation.
Love the lolcano
"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Aug 27, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
First order of business for Ricketts...
Fire Hendry!
Seriously, why do GMs keep falling for contract year blips?
Now if we can just bring Piniero back…
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
except derek jeter
who looks like a better deal than ARod right now
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
especially when you consider Jeter's contract never had the chance to be an albatross
effin Yankees
"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 27, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i remember when he signed that deal
and people bashed the yankees to hell for giving 18 million a year to a shortstop without great power for 10 years, by the end of which he’d be in his mid 30s.
now looking back that could go down as one of the better signings ever made.
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I would disagree:
Fangraphs Value for Derek Jeter
His contract was signed in 2001, so add another $11M on to his salary numbers, and add around $11.5M to his value numbers (around 4.5 WAR worth, total estimate). He’s been worth right around $6M more than his contract over the life of it, and is putting up a sick amount of value this year, which I’m assuming has somewhat to do with the UZR baseline for SS dropping WAY down in the AL this season due to the loss of some horrible defenders from last year. I seriously doubt he’s been worth a full win more on defense than he has at any other point in his career at age 35.
He’ll make $22M next season, and have to be worth around 5 WAR next year to make his contract equal his value over the life of it. While that’s pretty good, I’m certain it isn’t the even in the ballpark with some of the best signings ever made.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
It is they might break even signing
If they are lucky
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The aforementioned A-Rod
He was worth WAY more than his original deal that he signed with Texas, and it’s not even close. If you factor in the positional adjustments and move him back to SS playing for the Yankees (he was an average defender there, same as Jeter), he’s worth around $320M on that $252M contract. THAT, my friends, is a great signing, money be damned.
Same with Pujols, A 7Y$100M deal and has been worth over $220M in the first 6 years of that deal. He could be worth over $200M more than his salary by the end of that contract, even if it ended next year and the option wasn’t picked up for 2011.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I'd go eight with Pujols,
Hanley (if he had been allowed to reach FA), Mauer… Basically, any player that 1) isn’t going to get fat (Cabrera), 2) has a good attitude, 3) is <30 y.o., and 4) consistantly >5 WAR. Not that those grow on trees or anything…
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
Mauer
I don’t know. He’s a catcher. If he’s open to shifting positions, then maybe. I guess they do have the DH as a safety net in the AL, but, if I were an NL club, I don’t know that I’d sign Mauer for eight years.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he's a handsome...
Oh crap, he is a handsome man.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
this is the most awkward picture I can find of him.
Everything else is Minnesota big blue sky the-ugly-ones-died-of-frostbite perfect.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He uses glasses?
I did not know that.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
I guess the only taunt we could use is "nerd"
But that would still be a compliment to him.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I mean
If my girlfriend hooked up with Joe Mauer I’m not sure I’d even be mad. I might even be happy.
Not afraid to nitpick
he's such a nice boy.
And… he actually is a nice boy.
That’s what fucks you up about Minnesota. It’s crafty.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
It's freaking awesome
I’ve been pointing that out to Cubs fans the last month or so.
Not October yet
Sure, everything is looking good right now…let us see what happens in the last 2 weeks of Sept. and then Oct. MVPs and and Cys are not passed out until then. Make the playoffs, win the NL…and then we can reflect on a good season. The WS is all that matters in the long run…
The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time. - Catfish Hunter
If I were a player, that would be my mentality.
But, I’m a fan, and I am curious about these types of things and enjoy discussing them.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Any chances
BBWA look at Waino’s impressive streak of 26 straight outings of 6+ innings when voting? This stands out to me alot…
No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.
They don't look at actual good pitching
They go: wins, check; era, check; media attention, check. Sir, here is your award
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 27, 2009 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I get to see carp go for win 15 live
Got me some tickets and I’ll be ATG (according to gameday?) this afternoon
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 27, 2009 12:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Man, I don't think I can remember any season
Where so many players have been released, DFA’d, or traded in all my years of following baseball
economics
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
$13,598.64
Is that right?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
huh
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
by tehzachatak on Aug 27, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
K-Mac is one of the player representatives? wow.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Wainwright is another
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Wainwright's start... Shyster has it right
This game took 2:10, which is roughly the length of your average AL East inning.
AMEN
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Also,
I didn’t realize the Cubs were just 2 games over .500. We’re 20 games over. Awesome.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
yeah, but they're only 7 games back in the loss column
for whatever reason, cub fans obsess over the loss column differential.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Another one to add
to my list of links I post whenever my Cub fan friends start chiding me about Pujols being surly or cocky or something like that. Usually with a subject line of “What does Soriano do with his stolen Cub salary?” or the like.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I think we can narrow it down to Lincecum and Carpenter
if Wainwright continues to improve though, who knows…
does anyone think any of the voters will be influenced by Lincecum’s shaky start in the All Star Game? some Cy Young voters could view this as inexperience and might choose Carp over him just on the fact that Carp has “veteran presence” or whatever. plus there’s still over a month of baseball left, Carp could usurp Lincecum’s lead in statistics.
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions
MLBTR reporting via Team 1380, "Holliday Interested In Extension With Cardinals"
He hasn’t begun negotiating an extension with the team, but says there’s a chance he signs one before the season’s over.
pie?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
are we talking open-faced or with pastry topping?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Pastry toppings, of course. Don't undersestimate the Midwest Nice.
And of course I’m sure the contract will include some some gooey-butter-cake-based incentives for things like the MVP, All-Star teams, etc.
GBC incentives, I like it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
As long as "pies" doesn't include pizza pies
It’s not that I don’t like St. Louis style pizza, but there’s a pretty sizable number of people who don’t. I wouldn’t want him to turn sour and start demanding a trade two years from now.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
In other words, it's a risk I'd rather not take.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
My feeling is
If Matt Holliday doesn’t like Imo’s, he can get the hell out of my city.
But I have strong feelings about such things.
I hate Imo's.
Ugh. It sucks so badly.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
You've never had a Chicago dog, obviously
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
so you're saying the "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!" I heard this
morning was the voice of Scott Boras resounding through the land?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
theory: Loshie is useful even from the DL
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I hope that was the "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" you heard this morning.
And I equally hope you hear it again before season’s end when Holliday signs for less than $18MM a year. (I chose that number after finding Soriano’s contract information.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
would Matt and Albert accept discounted contracts
If Albert’s were $1 more?
Disregarding amount, just the whole “Albert should be king” thing. Which is not at all ridiculous.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He must not want to play for the Yankees...
they’ve got $26 million coming off the books with Matsui and Damon and nobody to play the outfield. I wonder if they’d do 7yrs/$125 million…
Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.
probably
but they’re not as nice as we are
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
Pretend you're Matt Holliday
- You just played a half season in the AL and hated it.
- You’ve come back to the NL and torn it a new one since returning.
- You’re not a media whore.
- You’re from Oklahoma and you have a deeply religious background.
- You’re family oriented and they like it in the Midwest since they’re close to home.
Why would you even think about signing in NY? If you figure that the cost of living and state taxes in New York are higher, does it really make sense to uproot your family and play in NY if you can play in the league you like, in the Midwest, and with the best player in the game for around $4M per year less?
I think he is one of those players where money isn’t the most important thing to him. He just seems that way from the things that he’s said since he’s been here.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 27, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Further
If he signed in NY and played like he did the first half of ‘09 in Oakland for the first half of next year, do you think that Yankee fans are going to accept that? Nobody watches Oakland play, and Oakland fans don’t really seem like the booing type, but Yankee fans would be all over his ass like stink in shit if he opened horribly in New York.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
it'll depend on the Mrs., I think
She may put her foot down on the school situation. And you don’t need to make as much to live very, very comfortably in St. Louis. With land, even.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Haha.
I think the intro music they used during their interview of Holliday this morning was Holiday by Green Day. How amusing. Here’s the interview. It doesn’t start for about for about a minute.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Also, here's a graph:
That red line going up is us. Everything else going down is the rest of the Central division.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
for the record, I am still afraid of the Brewers.
Always watch out for the cornered ones.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
But we are 12 games up
and only play 9 more games w/BrewCrew. As long as we stay more than 9 games ahead of them, I wouldn’t worry too much.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
oh, not them catching us.
more like breaking into a clubhouse door and sitting on someone until Lugo breaks it up
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
fyp
more like breaking into a clubhouse door and sitting on someone until Lugo breaks it up decapitates prince fielder and eats his innards with his hands.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
but by then it would be too late!
you know how much body mass we’re talking before inertia sets in?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
They had to tone it down, obviously.
I mean, kids play that game.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I smell a VEB meme brewing....
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 28, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually the Holliday interview doesn't
start for about a 1/3 of the way through that mp3.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Listening right now,
Holliday seems like a pretty cool dude.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Holliday:
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Also, they really lead him
into saying staying in St. Louis would be awesome. What’s he gonna say, I hate St. Louis? I dunno, color me skeptical about an extension, although I’d love it if he signed one.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Also, I sig'd that.
Done talking to myself now.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
OT
I have been robotized
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions
http://areyoubotornot.com/?mId=31399778.3
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
http://areyoubotornot.com/?mId=31399778.3
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm really worried about you
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
well, thanks?
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
pre-game has begun.
In the meantime, I feel we need our own gooey butter cake picture.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8616/img30611.jpg
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
oh don't do that to me please
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
i think my cholesterol went up just looking at that picture.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
this guy loves Brendan Ryan!
Also the Arkansas fan tweaks The Cat. Just toying with him.
“Oh gosh, you’re talking to someone from Minnesota.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
At the end of the interview, they
asked Holliday, “Best team ever, or best team ever?” He stumbled over himself trying to be nice to the Rockies. It was pretty amusing.
Well, we have to get to the World Series, I think the opportunity is there. I’ve only gotten to the World Series once…we got our butts kicked. So, yeah, I think the potential is there. We’ll see.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
you know, those Rick Ankiel CO throws would not have worked
If
1. Troy Glaus hadn’t sold it.
2. Troy Glaus weren’t so tall.
Sadly, The Rose would’ve had to hop, possibly off the bag.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
K-Mac's inspirational story!!
Wow. This is Disney music.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Franklin confesses he doesn't know why the beard
or why it talks to him. sometimes.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
FSM has a magic adjusting text poll
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
NL Pitching Leaders
http://espn.go.com/mlb/statistics
Wins – Wainwright – 15
ERA – Carpenter – 2.16
Saves – Franklin – 34
How often does a team own all 3 categories with 3 different pitches?
Fan of: Cards, Blues, Yellow Jackets, Rams, Wolverines, and Blazers.
by ColinMacLeod on Aug 27, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
woah
cool
On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."
HI GUYS IN THE TRUCK
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
heh.
for serious. stop being lazy, do stuff yourself guys! nah, just kidding, we love you! give holliday some pie, okay?
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
i dunno, i'd cut them some slack
they have to deal with dan and al
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
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