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Around SBN: Dissecting Nick Diaz's Positive Drug Test

The September Shuffle


I had an epiphany last night while watching the Cardinals flail wildly at everything Wandy threw up there. I finally realised just what it is about our coaching staff's philosophies that bothers me so much.

We've heard, for years and years and years now, about the Dave Duncan School of Pitching, also known as the Great Contact Academy. Duncan's philosophy has always focused on getting quick outs and avoiding walks. The earlier in the count you can get a player to swing and get himself out, the better. Walks are to be avoided at all costs; they're the very worst thing you can possibly do.

On the other hand, you have Hal McRae and his hitting philosophy, which is apparently to swing early, swing often, and don't stop swinging until you're done. Cardinal hitters consistently take the most aggressive approach possible to the plate; first pitch swinging is common, especially in anything resembling an RBI situation.

Do you see the problem? Essentially, the Cardinals are their own pitching coach's dream matchup. For a pitching coach who despises walks above all else, a team that constantly swings early in the count, long before the walk becomes much of a concern, would be absolute heaven. So my question is this: if your pitching coach, considered by many people to be the best in the game -- and possibly the best ever -- thinks walks are the very worst outcome to a plate appearance, don't you think you might encourage your offense to do just that thing to opposing pitchers?

Now, don't get me wrong here; I'm not saying the Cards would have had a ton of chance against Wandy regardless of how they approached him. The little guy was flat on, and sometimes you just aren't going to hit a guy. But watching Cardinal hitters constantly hacking away last night, I was struck by the dichotomy of philosophies on hitting and pitching.  You value aggressive, early swinging when pitching, because it leads to quicker, easier outs. And hitting? You counsel your hitters to be aggressive early and be ready to swing at the first strike the batter sees.

Star-divide

September is very nearly here, and along with that comes expanded rosters, that most exciting time of year when we get to see at least a couple guys brought up, guys whose names we may have heard all year long as they put themselves on the map with big seasons. Or maybe just Nick Stavinoha. Either way.

So I thought I would look today at the players most likely to get the call in a little less than a week to help bolster the Cards' roster down the stretch. I'm not expecting a huge haul, if only because the Cardinals under Tony La Russa have mostly declined to call up more than a handful of players. Another odd philosophical move to my way of thinking; Tony frets all year long about running short of players, particularly pitchers, and then when the chance comes to bring up enough extra guys to be able to double- and even triple-switch between pretty much every batter if he would like, he declines to do so in order to keep from having too many players just hanging around. Sigh.

Beginning with position players, just because.

Matt Pagnozzi, Catcher-- yeah, I know, and I agree. Pagnozzi is kind of a terrible player. He doesn't hit, he isn't particularly good at throwing out runners; in short, he just doesn't do a whole lot that stands out. Of course, he does have that magical quality of Intangible, which as far as I can tell is just shorthand for "the thing that keeps guys on a team when there isn't any real reason for them to be on the team."  I'm exaggerating, but only kind of. Still, with the Cards' only real catching prospect in the high minors, Bryan Anderson, both hurt and going the way of the dodo on prospect lists, I don't see any way Pags2 doesn't get the call as the third catcher. And let's face it: third catcher isn't the sort of job description that lends itself to real impact, positive or negative. He'll need to be added to the 40 man roster, but I think he may have the inside track to replace LaRue next year, so I don't believe that will be an issue. Odds of Callup: 90%

David Freese, Third Base-- Ah, the sad tale of David Freese! A tale of woe and gloom and ankle problems, existing only to break the heart of those who hear it! Freese is likely first in line to try and fill the Cards' hot corner vacancy in 2010 if they fail to resign Mark of the Rose, and he's capable of playing solid defense at either corner infield position. If it were my team, he would get the call. However, it isn't my team, and so things are much less cut and dried here. He's been out quite a bit of the year with an injury, so the Cardinals may be hesitant to keep him playing all the way up until October. Odds of Callup: 50%

Tyler Greene, Shortstop-- Tyler, on the other hand, has probably got this thing in the bag. He's already been up this season, and made a fairly representative showing. Sure, the low contact rate followed him up as most of us expected, but he showed a little pop, a little speed, a nice glove, and the ability to play three infield positions. Even with Thursty Joe still somehow hanging around (seriously, how does that happen?), the promise of versatility will be enough to get Tyler back to the 'Lou. Odds of Callup: 90%

 Nick Stavinoha, Outfield-- Sigh. As sure as I am we'll see both Greene and Pagnozzi up with the big club, I'm actually even more sure we'll see the Stav Infection. He's like John Gall, but with a freakish resemblance to Aaron Miles. Call it my Lock of the Week. Odds of Callup: 95% 

Joe Mather, Outfield-- now this one is a bit more interesting. We got a taste of what Joey Bombs is all about last season. We saw the power, the defense, that loping athleticism. For a while, it looked as if Mr. Bombs might even end up taking the lion's share of time at third base this season. Sadly, injuries to his wrist have made 2009 a lost season for Joe, and I wonder if the Cardinals will want to bring him up and put off his rest and rehab any longer than necessary. On a personal level, i kind of hope we see him, just because I'm a fan, but I can certainly understand why we may not. Odds of Callup: 40% 

Jarrett Hoffpauir, Second Base-- We all love the Hoff. Admit it, you love the Hoff. You don't have to be shy; it's okay to love the Hoff. That being said, the Hoff is limited to second base defensively (well, he would be on a sane team; on a Tony team, his inability to throw a ball more than 40 ft means nothing; let's get him some reps in right field, shall we?), and he isn't a particularly imposing hitter. His one great skill is the ability to take a walk, and I'm not entirely sure how highly valued that is 'round these parts. (See my intro for further details.) Odds of Callup: 60%

 Shane Robinson, Outfield-- Sure, he's just the sort of player both Cardinal manager and Cardinal fans love, but seeing as how he hits right-handed, I'm not sure Robinson has a ton of value. Sure, he's at least a real outfielder, but that's another of those things I'm not sure matters as much as you or I might like. After all, why keep an outfielder on the roster when an infielder can stand out there and hope the ball doesn't come toward him? Odds of Callup: 50%

Jon Jay, Outfield-- Now we're getting into more of an audition sort of role, and La Russa teams rarely have many spots for these sorts of players. On the upside, Jay is left-handed, which is actually a bonus now that the roster has been so radically reconstructed, and is capable of playing excellent defense in all three outfield positions. On the downside, Skip Schumaker is a lot like Jay, and can still be moved back to the outfield whenever needed. Jay would also have to be added to the 40 man, so I think this one is a long shot. Odds of Callup: 20%

Mark Hamilton, First Base-- He's big. He's strong. He's left-handed. And he can flat out hit. Larry thinks Hamilton might warrant a call as a big bench bat, and I might be inclined to agree, if not for the fact I think there's another guy who might make a better choice for that role. Again, would need to be added to the 40. Another definite long shot. Odds of Callup: 15%

Allen Craig, Third Base/ Left Field/ Whatever-- Remember about ten seconds ago, when I said there was a guy who was probably better as a September bench bat? I was talking about Craig, who has done nothing but hit since, well, ever. Plenty has been said both here and over at Future Redbirds about the truly baffling way Craig has been handled, and honestly, I expect the bafflement to continue. He would be a perfect fit to step in and offer some real thunder off the bench -- sort of like a good version of Stavinoha -- but I just don't expect it to happen. Hopefully, I'm proven wrong. Odds of Callup: 20%

And now, for the pitchers.

P.J. Walters, RHP-- Let's face it: wicked awesome screwball or no, Walters just can't seem to get his shit together for any extended period of time. He showed some good at the major league level, but got his ass handed to him plenty of other times. He dominates at the Triple A level, then walks everyone and gets knocked around the next time out. I just can't figure him out. Nonetheless, he's already been here this season, and gives Tony an option to soak up some innings if need be. Odds of Callup: 90%

Josh Kinney, RHP-- Another for the enigma file. Kinney is still living off his brilliant 2006 postseason performance in a lot of our hearts, even though he's been just godawful this season. Still, there's very little downside to bringing him up, so I expect to see him. Odds of Callup: 90%

Royce Ring, LHP-- Ring has been pretty outstanding in the minors this year, and we all know how much Tony likes being able to play his matchup games. The only problem is Ring would have to be added to the 40 man roster, but I think someone like Hoffpauir could be moved off if necessary, assuming he doesn't get called up. Tough call on this one; I expect Tony to want him up, and Mozeliak to be hesitant due to the roster machinations needed. Odds of Callup: 30%

Matthew Scherer, RHP-- hey, there's got to be some reason he was put on the 40 before the season, right? Scherer hasn't been overwhelming in Triple A this season, but he's been pretty good. For a team suddenly looking a bit thin in terms of right-handed relief, he just might be a nice option, in a path-of-least-resistance sort of way. I have to admit, I do sort of wish I were talking about Luis Perdomo here instead of Scherer. Oh, well. Odds of Callup: 50%

Jaime Garcia, LHP-- Another really tough call. The thing is, if Garcia is healthy -- and he appears to be -- he fits both the "help now" and "future audition" imperatives which drive most September callups. On the other hand, John Mozeliak has stated publicly he doesn't expect to see Garcia this year; I can only imagine due to some sort of hesitance to rush him back. To which I would reply: what exactly is the difference between a pitch thrown at the major league level and the Triple A level? Either way, the pitch is still being thrown. I suppose an argument could be made for the level of intensity being different, but I'm not sure I quite buy it. If it were me in the big chair, I would have Garcia up here and get him into a few games, but I'm doubtful that's going to happen. Odds of Callup: 30% 

Eduardo Sanchez, RHP-- And now we come to the really fascinating one. Sanchez is, as most of you probably know, the newest hot thing down at Double A, where he's closing out games and making hitters look utterly helpless while doing it. Honestly, Sanchez is a little bit like Francisco Samuel, who made such an impression in spring training, except he actually has an idea where the ball is going when he lets go of it. Personally, I would looooove to see Sanchez brought up; I've seen him a couple times, and he's just ridiculous. He can hit 98, 99 with his fastball, and I honestly don't know what the breaking thing he throws is supposed to be, but I can tell you it's unhittable. Of all the guys the Cards could possibly bring up, Sanchez probably represents the best chance of catching lightning in a bottle, in much the same way the Angels did back in '02 with Francisco Rodriguez. Will the Cardinals take the chance? I highly doubt it. Sanchez will likely finish his year out in Double A, and get a chance at an NRI for spring training next year. Still, if you're looking for a guy who could come up and possibly make a real, meaningful impact, I would have to say Sanchez is the guy you're hoping for. I think he could get major leaguers out right now, if only given the chance. Odds of Callup: 15% 

I considered a few other guys, but purposely ignored anyone going to the Arizona Fall League. This specifically ruled out Dan Descalso, who I would love to see get at least a look with the big club, and Daryl Jones, who I also love but is probably best served getting regular work after a tough year spent trying to stay healthy consistently.

Thoughts?

The Baron's Playlist for 26th August, 2006

 "The Golden Age" - Resonars

"No Fun" - The Stooges

"If You Can't Give Me Everything" - The Reigning Sound

"Making Time" - Creation

"Trash" - New York Dolls (In honour of the best garage rock show in St. Louis, and the DJ with the sexiest voice.) 

Poll
Which philosophy do you prefer?
Lots of players; plenty of options, the player benefit from the atmosphere, and you can get a look at some guys.
355 votes
Fewer players; guys shouldn't be here just to sit, and that clubhouse chemistry is too delicate.
262 votes

617 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 294 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Garcia

From what I understand about TJ surgery, expecting Garcia to be getting major league hitters out this early in his recovery might be unreasonable. Let’s just get him ready for ST next year.

by mikey_mac on Aug 26, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I expect Garcia to be up

Just because he is already producing results in AAA, if he keeps that up I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get some LOOGY work or a spot start.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

any available spot starts would go to Smoltz, no?

I guess with Lohse out though, that’s not the case…I’m confused

by STLRegalia on Aug 26, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking more along the lines of late in September

when we might want to rest the top end guys another day or so or use another starter to set up our rotation. Or maybe they move Smoltz to the pen mid Sept because they don’t plan on needing him as a starter in Oct but want him as a releiver so you use Garcia as the 5th starter.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly, I expect PK to get that role

providing we’re still umpteen games ahead towards the back end of the season.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s pretty much my take. It’s more than just intensity—if he’s called up, the organization is expecting him to perform against major league hitting. If they think that kind of audition is too soon, they shouldn’t call him up.

by Forsch31 on Aug 26, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

I didn’t know what to make of it, so I assumed it was an intentionally vague mashup of baseball cliches, ie “getting a look at some guys” and what not.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Aug 26, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it isn't really

That is what is so weird, it is techinically after the break but SB must show polls before breaks even when there is stuff after. Just a weird setup.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sometimes I wonder

If Allen Craig is just a really big asshole and nobody likes him so they just keep dicking him around and they don’t feel bad about it because he’s a whiner and he listens to Fallout Boy in the clubhouse or something.

by mojowo11 on Aug 26, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

…but seriously, though.

by RedbirdAvenger on Aug 26, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Until he signs with the Cards

He can’t be “called up” :)

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

troy glaus should probably make an appearance; i don't see him not getting called up.

azru is going to come and honk his horn for tyler henley, but I think he falls into the dan descalso (who has not been hitting at memphis) and djtools box of “let’s see what you’ve got in spring training.”

adam ottavino might actually make some sense as a call up — he may be more interesting to look at in relief than anybody on the list other than jaime garcia or sanchez. he needs a 40-man spot, but he’ll have to be protected this fall anyway.

a lot of the final decisions depend as much on health as anything: if mather and glaus are really healthy, then forget about craig or hamilton getting a look. if not, both can go on the 60-day dl and you might see craig and hamilton called up. khalil greene, lohse, garcia, some other folks also have existing health issues which may or may not allow them on the roster.

the club also needs to look hard at which players it plans on cutting from the roster this offseason. it makes no sense to leave healthy but marginal players on the roster if you’re not going to use them in september. see robinson, scherer, or kinney. if we don’t use them now, when?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Glaus should be called up prior to August 31st

because they should ensure he’s eligible for the playoffs, imo.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Already eligible

from what I’ve read, Glaus already qualifies him for the post season eligibility roster by being on the 15 day DL . I’m basing that on this article from Sept 07 answering questions on Ellsbury eligibility. Here is the main comment

Red Sox director of baseball operations Brian O’Halloran explain. — “The position-player-for-position-player / pitcher-for-pitcher requirement is indeed now gone for substitutions prior to a series,” O’Halloran wrote in an e-mail. "However, teams now are allowed to substitute for an injured player during a series. Such in-series substitutions are position-player-for-position-player / pitcher-for-pitcher, and the injured player cannot be active for the remainder of that series or the next series. Those substitutions also require MLB approval.

“The way substitutions (before a series) work in general is as follows: each team’s initial pool of eligible players is the 25 players on its active roster at midnight on 8/31 plus any players on the 15-day DL, 60-day DL, suspended list, bereavement list, etc. So we have 28 players in this pool (25 plus Donnelly, Clement, and Mirabelli, all of whom were on the DL on 8/31).

The actual mlb post season eligibility rule is rule 40(a) which I can’t find anywhere.

by ubeddie on Aug 26, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was on the 60 day DL I beleive

and the club can choose anyone to “substitute” for a 60 day DL member from anyone that was in the organization 1 Sep. I may be missunderstanding this but I beleive he is eligble since he was that DL’d person.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't think he was ever transferred to the 60 day dl

here is the initial transaction from the mothership.

3/28/09 Placed 3B Troy Glaus and LHP Jaime Garcia on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to March 27.

Use of the 60 day is to make more room on the 40 man roster, which hasn’t been an issue all season. IIRC, right now the Cards are at the high water mark of having 38 players on the 40 man.

by ubeddie on Aug 26, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

your right

You do have to have a full 40 man roster but I thought we did at one point, maybe they never were transferred.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't he just be retroactively transferred at any time?

It’s not like he’s appeared in a game in the last 60 days.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 26, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

If his back spasms or shoulder issues reoccur

probably, but not while he is playing in Memphis. Also, Glaus would have to agree with the DL and he might not want that since he is a FA in two months.

by ubeddie on Aug 26, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

It doesn't make sense, does it?

DD’s pitching philosophy has one key component, and that is controlling the at-bat by throwing pitcher’s strikes. These are, of course, pitches low in the zone and on the inside and outside “blacks.” The whole point is to force the hitter to swing at pitches they can’t do much about, to make less-than-solid contact, and put the ball on the ground. Ideally, this will drive down pitch counts and walks.

However, the BoB hitters seem to have been instructed to be aggressive on strikes. Have we not just established that just because a pitch is a strike does not mean it should be swung at? An 0-1 FB on the black outside is a strike, yes, but how many hitters can make solid, line-drive type contact with that pitch on a consistent basis? Even Albert isn’t going to make a living on that pitch. I also think that telling hitters to go to the plate to be aggressive on pitches in the zone leads to being aggressive on pitches OUT of the zone. Now, this is not to say that in pitcher’s counts (0-2, 1-2) a hitter should not protect himself, only that it makes no logical sense for hitters to turn hitter’s counts into pitcher’s counts. And yet our favorite team seems to enjoy doing just that…Very frustrating stuff.

As for callups…My gut tells me that the guys we’ve already seen with the big club, we’ll see again. This includes Walters, Kinney, Robinson, plus Pagnozzi because technically he’s the best catcher left. I’d like to see Sanchez, Garcia, and Mather, and if Craig doesn’t get a callup it tells me the FO would rather he simply run through the house with scissors or something. At any rate, it’s looking more and more like those September games will mean less, so it may be a good time to see what any of these guys do, albeit in a small sample size.

/shockingly verbose comment ended

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I meant to include the Infection too...oops

Seriously, if I hear one more person say Stavinoha was clutch and got a raw deal, I’ll be perturbed. That line of thinking is rather prevalent amongst several of my golf buddies/work colleagues. Inexplicable.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

My argument whenever some lunkhead says anything like that:

“Sure, he won a couple of games with late hits, but didn’t he also contribute to a whole LOT of losses with his pathetic 0-for-4, 3K performances, and his crappy sub-.600 OPS? So he owed us those couple of wins and a heck of a lot more”.

Also, VEP’s chair analogy works pretty well too…

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Internet pet peeve

When people put “/end of _” or something like that. The “/” means end — it originated from programming terminology. Think of, say, HTML where you turn something on with a < _ > and then turn it off with < /_ >. So when you’re ending something with a slash, just put (to use this example) “/shocking verbose comment,” which then reads as “end shockingly verbose comment.” Same applies for “/sarcasm” or “/kidding” or “/cubs season.”

Sorry, that just really bothers me. Much more than it should, I admit.

Nice comment, by the way.

by mojowo11 on Aug 26, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Technically it's double negative, so all comments are sarcastic from that point on

I’ll close it off for you…

/shockingly verbose comment

/geek

I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

slashes can also be toggles in video games

I know in wow /pvp will turn pvp flags on and off, so slash can be shown as a toggle.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

And as people who live in their moms' basements

You can bet we’re all avid gamers. Someone pass me a Red Bull.

by mojowo11 on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't talk about WoW

please? i’ve lost multiple friends to that game

On Chris Carpenter in the 2009 Cy Young Race: "He's got one," Wainwright said. "He doesn't need another one."

by tehzachatak on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The game itself isn't at fault

I was “lost” to it for awhile as well, and after a break I realized the addictive tendencies I was having were as similar as what a chain smoker must feel. I don’t blame a video game for being too good to put down, I blame myself for not being able to put it down. Anything is fine in moderation.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except murder.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 26, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Aug 26, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen to that.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 26, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at this photograph

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

not sure which song you are referring to,

but now I have, Filter(I think) ’ s song in my head: “can you take my picture, cause I won’t remember…”

by STLRegalia on Aug 26, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really know HTML, so I had to piece this together from context

Thanks for making it more clear. I hope you realize that, now that I know for sure how it works, I’ll be more tempted to use it. It’s your fault if I end up being the straw that broke the meme’s back. Or the motorcycle with which the meme jumps the shark. Or that one final ridiculous injury that ends up nailing the final nail into the coffin of some nameless baseball team.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Aug 26, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just to let you know...

the shark has a frickin’ laser beam on its head.

If that helps any.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll remember this...

…and use it to my advantage by provoking you with unnecessary /end conclusions to comments. Consider yourself warned! Boom…that just happened.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was a toggle about 30 years before HTML existed

Not that I’m old or anything, but it doesn’t mean “end”

by sdrone on Aug 26, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

true

it means on or off based on the previous state, even in html it just means to turn off a tag, its just that the on statement doesn’t include the /.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 26, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well in terms of internet lingo

I would argue that it does mean end, and I’d be unsurprised if that usage came from HTML (for obvious reasons). This I know from spending altogether too much time on internet message boards over the last 7-8 years.

by mojowo11 on Aug 27, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

if you don't swing at an 0-1 fastball on the black.

and btw; it’s not just swing at strikes. It’s swing at quaility strikes. You are now 0-2.

Does anyone know if there is away to compare BaBIP vs OBP with an 0-2 count?

by Evilfrog on Aug 26, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

At the major league level...

…you can’t live in fear of 2-strike counts. 0-2 is a bad spot to be, for sure, but isn’t 0-2 with a bat in your hand preferable to jogging back to the dugout, no? Besides that, you are taking an example to demonstrate a larger point and confusing it with the central fact that not all strikes are pitches that should be swung at by all hitters. The Cardinals have a pitching staff that is told to dominate the count and get hitters to swing at pitchers’ pitches, and yet the offense is guilty of this very same flaw. The Cardinals pitching staff would have an absolute field day with all of the non-Albert and Holliday hitters in the lineup. Why? Because they get themselves out swinging at nasty stuff they have no prayer of hitting solidly.

At any rate, the message very well may be “be aggressive on quality strikes.” I have no problem with that, and in fact I think it’s a good approach. But somewhere the message with this team is lost. We know that after a loss late in that outstanding April run that LaRussa publicly said he wanted them to be more aggressive, even though as a group their discipliine was outstanding and they were drawing a good number of BB’s to go with the consistently solid hits. The Cardinals are near the bottom in almost every single plate discipline category. Every last one. I’m not positive who is to blame, but while the theoretical plan may be to be aggressive on hitters’ strikes, that is not what the actual game plan has ever been for this team.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

thoughts on part 1: plate discipline.

The cards have a fairly pedestrian 17th in the majors BB rate at 9.0%. The spread in the middle is not huge, with most teams coming in somewhere between 8.6% and 9.8%. The teams at the extremes are interesting, and both serious postseason contenders.

SF Giants have a Francoeurian 6.3% BB rate. Yanks, Red Socks, Rays, and (in the top slot) Rockies all have a 10%+ walk rate. The Rockies have an 11.0% walk rate. The Phils trail slightly at 9.8. The Angels and White Sox keep us company as other contenders right at or around 9.0%. Check out who keeps the Giants company with the worst BB rates: Mariners, Astros, Royals, Pirates, Rangers, Reds, Athletics. With the exception of the Rangers, pretty much some of the worst teams in the majors. Walks are pretty important, folks.

The O swing percentage speaks even better to the plate discipline concern. The Yanks swing at the fewest pitches out of the zone: 22.4%. The Giants swing at the most: 32.0%. The Cardinals come out worse by this measure: we swing at 26.3% of all pitches out of the zone, 7th worst in the majors. If we are going to break out of our persistent slumps, we need to take better at-bats.

And when we play the Giants, please let’s watch them get themselves out.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Shawon Duston is

their infield coach, so that doesn’t surprise me at all. Also, Kung Fu Panda hasn’t seen a pitch he won’t swing at. I think he swings at something like 50-60% of the first 2 pitches he sees.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 26, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's interesting to find the A's near the bottom

when their GM supposedly actively seeks guys who have high walk rates.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The A's

also haven’t been very good for the last few years — perhaps he should go back to his former strategy.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true

but I’d imagine that 90% (OK so Ed Wade is in the other 10%…) of major league GMs are now looking at OBP as the primary single measure of how good a hitter is (or, at least, are considering it “very important”), and, financially, the A’s can’t really compete. So the high OBP/power guys with low average (the Adam Dunns of this world) are probably getting more $ than they were in the Moneyball heyday. Something like that.

Beane probably can’t afford the top OBP guys now, because even ones with other flaws (bad defence – Dunn) are getting top money. The market inefficiencies are arguably elsewhere (short-term veteran contracts, trading major league talent for ’spects during the season, looking for defence-first guys who can hold a bat, like Mark Ellis etc.).

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know for a fact that the Giants don't value walks

Among other things, Carney Lansford is their HC, and he was no Kevin Youkilis.

I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa whoa

Wait a second now…… it doesn’t make sense to measure the soundness of a team’s pitching philosophy by comparing it to the team’s hitting philosophy, and vice versa.

The value of the coaching approaches is measured in comparison to the opposition’s philosophies. DD sees the contact approach as strategic in relation to the popular opposition strategy of wait-and-see. And HM sees the contact approach as strategic in relation to the popular opposition strategy of assuming the batters will wait-and-see.

In other words, both strategies work when independently compared to opposition philosophies.

True, it would be funny if the team played itself, but it’s more of a daydream than a real assessment of coaching philosophies.

The Cards at night, are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas

by texbird on Aug 26, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions  

He's not doing that though

what he’s saying is that it’s probably a good thing that our hitters don’t face our pitchers, because they would play right into their gameplan: swinging early and often against the Cards starting pitchers is a recipe for disaster.

Both philosophies work to an extent, but I think that the hitting philosophy espoused by McRae has hurt us a bit this year, because the players are being overly aggressive and swinging at a lot of balls out of the strike zone. Look at toms comment above. There’s a reason that those teams are near the top in runs scored and also near the top in walk rate — they’re getting on base more and getting better pitches to hit.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we know where this comes from?

Do we know that this comes from McRae? Or could it be from higher up or from individual hitters? Just asking.

by Remember Kenny B on Aug 26, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

From what I've heard of McRae

he is utterly clueless. I really, really hope we’re rid of him as soon as possible.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pitchers meetings

Maybe Rick keeps attending the wrong meetings and that’s why he is swinging at everything.

by ubeddie on Aug 26, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

lol

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

RE: Plate Discipline

I remember the Yankees teams from 1996-1999 as being some of the toughest teams to pitch against, because they didn’t swing at anything outside the strike zone, took a lot of walks, fouled off a lot of pitches, and worked a lot of deep counts. Those teams wear out 3-5 starters before the 5th inning, and then spend the next 4 innings mashing the hell out of your bullpen.

In the day and age of pitching counts and arm stress injuries, being a patient hitter and working a lot of deep counts works to an offense’s advantage more often than not.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 2:36 PM EDT reply actions  

That was their well-known

minor league philosophy. work the count. In theory, it still is.

by sdrone on Aug 26, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those Yankees teams were a true juggernaut

That 1998 team had not a single 30-hr hitter, and yet was top-tier in the league in that category b/c they had a LOT of guys with SOME power. O’Neill, Martinez, and Williams did the heavy lifting, Strawberry had a really fine season as DH, and Scott motherfletching Brosius had a .371 OBP and 19 HR. That was very nearly the perfect offensive team.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT

Name the 1990s HR leaders

I got 20/24

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I got 17.

Missed Jeff friggin Bagwell.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only got 13

But, to be fair, I was like 12 in the year 2000.

by mojowo11 on Aug 26, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got 19...

My big miss was Larry Walker.

I also missed Jay Buhner (whom I thought of but didn’t type, damnit), Andres Galarraga, Joe Carter, and Dean Palmer. Dean Palmer?

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Aug 26, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought of Ron Gant and didn't type him

I also somehow missed Mike Piazza. I got Dean Palmer because I started typing in random popular last names. I’ve never even heard of him.

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only missed one

And I typed it repeatedly. I just figured it was the Florida version of said school. Almost missed Arky as well.

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

25/26

Missed Miami of Ohio.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

same here

never even thought of either miami for some reason. had 90+ seconds with 1 team missing and never got it.

"I've got six players coming in who think they poop ice cream,"

by jacksonian on Aug 26, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitt was another down-to-the-wire one

I was surprised Miami (FL) and FSU weren’t on there, and I was surprised they wouldn’t take Miami when I typed it like ten times. “Maybe I misspelled it the nine times before!”

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

You want a fun one?

Try this one: NBA #1 Draft Picks since 1968. I got 24/25, but I’m an NBA geek.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, random popular names was how i got Gonzalez, who I had somehow forgotten.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Aug 26, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I typed in Gonzalez thinking of Luis Gonzalez

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Related OT

MLB Walk Leaders

I finished 22 out of 24 on the 90’s HR list — missed Dante Bichette and Greg Vaughn.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

25 out of 25 on the walk leaders

that was close…got down to 2 with 90 seconds left and it took me forever to come up with Yost and Collins.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

God. I sucked at that.

Had no idea Joe Morgan was on there, missed Yost, Evans Sheffield Collins Foxx and Thome.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Aug 26, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Missed Yost and Evans.

I misspelled Yaz’s name like 5 times before I just looked it up.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

by lunchboxbomb on Aug 26, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah the Z comes later than I thought at first.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Aug 26, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got Bichette,

but I misspelled Albert Bell(e). How stupid. AND, I did not get Canseco. Pathetic. Just pathetic. Anyone who got Greg Vaughn, I salute you.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 26, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got Greg Vaughn

Of course, both he and Mo popped up when I typed in “Vaughn”

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got 12

After people I thought I knew I just went on people I thought I did steroids. And I was born in 1991. I feel proud.

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 26, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I was surprised how few recent players were on there- and none of the ones I guessed.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Aug 26, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

That picture makes me want to hide my children

and I don’t even HAVE children.

It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.

by YesWeOquendo on Aug 26, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Reminds me of this...

I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the reason you see our hitters being agressive....

is b/c we have alot of marginal players taking AB’s. Guys like Ryan, Skip, Duncan, Ankiel, probably Raz for now…..can’t afford to fall behind. I’m not saying I’m a proponent of them swinging at “balls”, but I’m not against them swinging at first pitch strikes, when they get a pitch they can hit, or that they are looking for. There are ALOT of pitchers out there that throw some pretty meaty first pitch strikes trying to get ahead. I’d hate to see our mediocre hitters taking thos pitches, and hitting from behind in the count.

Matt Holliday. Nuff said.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 26, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

it's not first-pitch strike swinging that's the problem.
The O swing percentage speaks even better to the plate discipline concern. The Yanks swing at the fewest pitches out of the zone: 22.4%. The Giants swing at the most: 32.0%. The Cardinals come out worse by this measure: we swing at 26.3% of all pitches out of the zone, 7th worst in the majors. If we are going to break out of our persistent slumps, we need to take better at-bats.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

To me.....

That just doesn’t seem extreme.

The difference between Cardinal hitters and Yankee hitters is 4%. I mean, that is probably 2-3 swings a game, right?

Matt Holliday. Nuff said.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

the O-swing measure is a good measure of our batters' patience and eyes.

if we’re swinging at 20% more out-of-zone pitches, we’re probably also swinging at a lot of marginal or unhittable strikes. the O swing rate is an index of what we’re doing at the plate.

i doubt any one measure is hugely significant over the course of one game. but the effects add up over a season.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

so

what does it matter if we swing at a "unhittable"strike……or watch said strike be called a strike by the ump?

by RedJoker on Aug 26, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, for one, if you swing, it's obviously a strike.

if you don’t, there’re enough mental lapses by the umps that the ump may call it a ball.

but mostly (and maybe what i could have made clearer) is that by “unhittable” i meant not “impossible to get the bat on” but “impossible to get a hit on”. pitches that are likely to go for a ground out or a pop out rather than a ball that you can drive.

redbird had this to say above:

DD’s pitching philosophy has one key component, and that is controlling the at-bat by throwing pitcher’s strikes. These are, of course, pitches low in the zone and on the inside and outside "blacks." The whole point is to force the hitter to swing at pitches they can’t do much about, to make less-than-solid contact, and put the ball on the ground. Ideally, this will drive down pitch counts and walks

maybe i should have said “pitcher’s strikes.”

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok

so more to the beat of “its a strike that has a high chance of producing an out?”

by RedJoker on Aug 26, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's pretty significant

O-Swing has a very high correlation with walks. 4% of pitches (which is about 6 swings a game actually) probably makes us lose 1 walk a game.

Smoltz.

by vivaelpujols on Aug 26, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And,

losing one walk per game means we lose 162 baserunners over the course of a season.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 26, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

umm, off the top of my head, .28?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see your point...

but disagree. I think marginal hitters are most helped by waiting for good pitches to hit. All of those guys have reputations of being aggressive which will lead most pitchers to throw pitches just close enough to the zone to get a swing, but not driveable. Also, I would take Shumaker off that list. At this point I think he can be called a legit big-league hitter (that should never face lefties).

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Aug 26, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you.....

But we’ve had alot of hitters that shouldn’t be taking AB’s against lefties, that have had to do just that. Guys like Raz, Ankiel, Duncan, and Skip. That has probably skewed our numbers a bit too, b/c some of those guys, especially when they were in their funks, were looking God-awful against lefties.

Matt Holliday. Nuff said.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 26, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even then

they should go up looking for a pitch they can hit and be aggressive on that pitch. I can understand being fooled from time to time, but just going up there hacking isn’t producing results, why not try it the other way around?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Einstein, I believe, said...

…“The definition of insanity is repeated the exact same process and expecting different results.”

If a team that goes to the plate swinging like madmen and simply can’t sustain rallies or even start them at any point, shouldn’t something change?

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think sooner has a point here

I’ll wager that our plate disclipline, by any independent measure, has been a lot better in the month and a half since we’ve added Holliday, DeRo and Lugo. Also, we spent 2 or 3 months with truly execrable left-handed hitters facing left-handed pitching. And played Joe Thurston most days. And played Tyler Greene at all. That’s really not a recipe for great plate discipline.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Out of that list

Craig, Jay, Garcia, Craig, and, of course, the Hoff. I do love the Hoff. And Craig.

And I would assume our pitching and hitting coaches simply don’t compare notes. I bet they’ve noticed this little epiphany as well, but since DD and Hal are established and probably have respect for the other’s area of “expertise”, I doubt either one of them would mention it. Even though their philosophies essentially contradict one another’s, it won’t change. And Craig.

No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.

by RunninRedbird on Aug 26, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Which is where

TLR has a responsibility to get involved. I would think a guy who’s managed Rickey, McGwire and Pujols would have a gut understanding of why patience at the plate is so important.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 26, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tony isn't going to interfere with Dave. Ever.

And he’s probably afraid Hal would throw a phone at him if he did….

No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.

by RunninRedbird on Aug 26, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you remember during the HR Derby

when Pujols did the interview and told them that TLR gave Pujols grief about not swinging earlier in the count?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 26, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cards plate discipline is what has me worried come the playoffs.

That is IF we make the playoffs.

Watching teams like the Phillies and Rockies score many runs I can’t help but be a little worried. I know our staff can shut down some big offensive teams, but I don’t think our guys can compete in a big scoring game. I hate to say it but I don’t see us being able to keep up with the offenses of the top AL teams at all. If we could some how squeak our way into the WS I don’t like our chances against the Yankees run scoring machine. Our only hope is that our starters keep us into games (which is what is happening now) because our plate discipline is taking us out of some big scoring chances.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

for some reason I cannot wrap my mind around that poll question

any of these would make me happy for a call up: Freese, Hoff, Craig, Mather… please, just one of those 4??

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 26, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Plate Discipline

Was it me or did the ump last night have an especially crazy strike zone?

It seemed to be shifted down 6 inches or so.

I wonder if that affects the judgments of whether pitches are called balls and strikes by Pitch F/X and it might distort some of the data that is generated.

Do they adjust for the strike zone that is called by the ump on a given night?

I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions  

i though

they showed called strikes out of the zone.

by RedJoker on Aug 26, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was absolutely nuts

I couldn’t see any consistency the first few innings, in particular.

by RedbirdAvenger on Aug 26, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have the hitting philosophy wrong

It isn’t swing early, swing often, and dont stop swing.

It’s don’t no swing at a good pitch to hit because it may be the only one you see. The fact that the cardinals were swing at junk indicate that they weren’t following McRae’s teaching. Not that they are. Because if they were they would not swing and balls in the dirt or out of the strike zone.

by Evilfrog on Aug 26, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

maybe - we don't know what exactly mcrae teaches.

but there have been public statements that the hitters need to be “more aggressive” and mcrae was quoted earlier in the season as being “mystified” about why guys were suddenly striking out a lot.

if there’s a team-wide problem with overly aggressive swinging, you would expect mcrae and tony to address it with the team. they clearly addressed the “problem” in april (a month in which we did kind of okay with the hitting, iirc) by demanding hitters get more aggressive. it’s not unreasonable to see that the club publicly demands that the team change its approach in one case but not the other and conclude that the teamwide silence on freeswinging suggests endorsement of the practice.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

dfa mcrae

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 26, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

There are plenty of quotes from Tony stating that they being “aggressive” means not missing your pitch to hit. It doesn’t mean taking swings at bad pitches. We just choice to hold on to the one “more aggressive” comment that was made back in late april.

by Evilfrog on Aug 26, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

no batting coach is saying

(1) swing at bad pitches
or
(2) lay off good pitches

The philosophy is a matter of which way to err. An “aggressive” approach says it’s better to swing at a bad pitch than miss a good one. A “patient” approach says it’s better to let a good pitch go than to swing at a bad one. By emphasizing “not missing your pitch to hit” you are implicitly accepting more swings at bad pitches.

by brackenthebox on Aug 26, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

A lot of this argument turns into a non-starter, because no coach would actually tell their players to do the things which lead to bad outcomes—i.e. to not swing at strikes or to swing at pitches outside the zone. But depending on what the coach emphasizes, the players could conceivably err on either side.
So if you tell your hitters to be “aggressive” you clearly want them to be aggressive in a good way, and that is all. But it’s reasonable to expect that they could start being over-aggressive or badly aggressive.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Aug 26, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 5:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

has the club done anything that has substantially changed the free-swinging that we have

seen over the last 3 months? if they don’t act to change it, then they’re at least tolerating, if not encouraging free swinging.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

shock therapy is next on the list

then getting players who can recognize a pitch will be the next step. Eliminate Ank from the team and the numbers probably improve dramatically.

by ubeddie on Aug 26, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Arguably there are several

guys that the coaches aren’t ever going to influence too heavily, for better or worse. But I wonder if Colby is trying to take that approach to heart and it’s hurting his game. He’s clearly got a good eye, but is much more of a free-swinger than I expected. Does he feel like his PT is dependent on adopting this approach?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 26, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i compared the O-swing rates for several players between april and may months ago.

the O-swing rates got worse for everybody but thurston and ryan and one other, iirc.

some of them – Khalil, Duncan, Colby, and Barden stick in my head – got MUCH worse. like a 18% O-swing to a 28% O-swing.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either way it's a swing-first mentality.

Because a batter cannot predict which pitches will be strikes with much accuracy, a swing-first mentality results in more swings at balls.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Aug 26, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

McRae can't have it both ways

Either the message is “hack away boys!” or the message is “swing at good pitches” and the team is simply botching it. The coach’s job is to get his team to do what he preaches. Right now the team follows the first plan and is hardly what I’d call an offensive juggernaut. Average pitchers dominate this team from time to time simply by throwing to the periphery of the zone and watching all of the non-Albert hitters ground out or pop up or just plain whiff. If this isn’t the plan, then McRae is simply doing a horrible job communicating The Plan.

Of course this ignores the ugly third door…that is that there is no coherent plan other than grab a bat and go hit, and later I’ll help your swing. I don’t think that Tony LaRussa would let that fly though, so again either what we’re seeing IS the plan or the plan is just not being executed.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT but I found it hilarious

Pete Abe: Had to pass this along. In the wake of the Billy Wagner deal, Red Sox GM Theo Epstein was asked about the critical comments Jonathan Papelbon made a few days ago. "He’s not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with," Epstein said, before explaining that Papelbon now accepted the deal.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

by lunchboxbomb on Aug 26, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

hahaha.

awesome.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

In related news...

Bears shit in the woods.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 26, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

with the pope?

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Aug 26, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: A Tough Question with some Tough Answers
A little background— as a young child, I was extremely anal-retentive for some reason. And I mean that literally— I tried not to poop as often as possible. I have no clue why I did it, but in the end the near-constant constipation seriously screwed up my large intestine. I’ve seen x-rays of my abdomen, and the last half-foot of my intestine before my anus is a little over twice the width it should be— stretched out, and such— and it simply doesn’t move stool along as it should. The result of this is that as poop tries to go along it’s merry way, it finds near the end of it’s journey that there’s suddenly nothing to push it along any more. So, it builds up, and builds up, and builds up… and basically, I end up taking two or three massive shits per week. There’s not really anything I can do about it.

I’ve got about a 15% ‘success’ rate on clogging toilets— I’m pretty used to just dealing with it and unclogging them now, once it’s clear that things aren’t working as they should (it must’ve been terrible for my parents when I was younger, though). I’m fine with dealing with all this privately. But in a dorm setting, with shared bathrooms… I’d really rather keep the rest of the residents from experiencing my intestinal issues second-hand, for all our sakes.

I just don’t know how I should even begin to deal with this issue. Does reddit have any advice for me?

Tough Answers

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 26, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow

That’s all I’ve got (that I will post).

Well, I'm from Texas and my mama taught me to not piss all over myself.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone in my family had this problem

He wouldn’t go for more than a week sometimes. If I remember right, the condition was called mega rectum.

by 1brdon on Aug 26, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

just drink more coffee

duh

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 26, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, is there something wrong with a 41 year-old man wearing skinny jeans?

Just asking.

For a friend.

Well, I'm from Texas and my mama taught me to not piss all over myself.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the difference between a hipster and a hipster doofus?

Well, I'm from Texas and my mama taught me to not piss all over myself.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's Catch-22.

if you’re self-aware and humble enough to recognize you’re a hipster, you’re not really a hipster, since pretention is the hallmark of the hipster.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I might love The Hoff.

Should I be concerned?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

If lovin' this is wrong, do you want to be right?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do like puppies.....

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

as long as you don't mean David Hasselhoff

I think you will be fine.

When Albert first talked about Hoffpauir in a post-game interview, I was confused by his accent and thought the clubhouse nickname for him was “Hoppy.” Which is cuter and funnier than Hoffy.

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tonights Lineup via FSN Tweet

Schumaker 2B
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
DeRosa 3B
Ankiel RF
Molina C
Ryan SS
Pineiro P

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Aug 26, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Anyone got an extra ticket?

I’m going down to the game to film Oswalt.

I wish I could have picked up one of the freebies offered here yesterday.

Well, I'm from Texas and my mama taught me to not piss all over myself.

by thepainguy on Aug 26, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Good lord

Wagon has a Cy Young night and we’re bitching about the Cardinal hitters struggling against a good pitcher??

by DocLockdown on Aug 26, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

good point

but his post was pretty good…it’s kinda ironic don’t ya think..it’s like rain…wait

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Aug 26, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fanposts

So both the Jersey Number and Glossary fanposts have now disappeared from the front page. I think the glossary should be in the new member orientation and the jersey number fanpost should be up till it is no longer needed.

"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.

by indakind on Aug 26, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Danup doesn't know how to sticky fanposts

Not sure if you can or not. Never seen it on another SBNation site before.

The writer of the fanposts should just put the link in their sigs like I did with my T-Shirt Fanpost

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 26, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That

or the authors of those fanposts could simply repost it as “old fanpost name #2.” Then, assuming people on the site want to see it on the main page still, it could get rec’d again to put it on the front page.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Aug 26, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

or someone else could do that

and take credit for all of the original poster’s hard work.

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Aug 26, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but I'm constantly updating the glossary

I would lose edit access.

Someone suggested putting it in as a link on the right side, next to the community guidelines. Which would be an honor. My table-making abilities are humble at best.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

because one day

I may cut down on commenting in VEB. Then you’ll all bitch at me in absentia.

Also, Boog and Yadi would be crowded.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was me

i recommended it because if you’re going to jump into the VEB pool, you better make sure you know what’s going on. otherwise, i’m going to hold your head under water till the bubbles stop.

/no not really.

//well now that i think about it, i probably will

///or maybe i won’t, i guess it depends on how my day went. do you really want to take the chance i won’t?

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Aug 26, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yes and no

As someone recently that had to post multiple fanposts about same subject (T-shirts and meetup). I hated the fact I was putting up a fanpost of pretty much the exact same thing knocking down some other fanpost. I wasn’t adding anything new to the forum but simply just keeping the fanpost visible.

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 26, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true it would get old

It was just a thought.

Any idea when you’ll be able to ship out those powder blue shirts?

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Aug 26, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably Monday

I wanted to ship them out by Friday but I won’t get the T-shirts till than.

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 26, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds great

There’s no rush. It’s really cool that you put all of this work into doing the shirts. Thanks man.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Aug 26, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the info

I just thought that both should have a more permanent place for now.

"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.

by indakind on Aug 26, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yesterday

I sort of ranted about the postseason ticket prices. I was mistaken.

The item name in my cardinals tickets account was equivocal. In one place it said “division series” and in another it said “postseason.” The way the items were listed led me to believe that the cost was $2662 for 3 sets of 2 NLDS tickets, which would be absurd. Apparently, the $2662 is actually for 3 NLDS, 4 NLCS, and 3 WS games. That’s much more reasonable, and I feel sort of like an idiot for going off about the prices.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Aug 26, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

So, you pay $2,662 for 10 games?

Is that 2 tickets per game?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 26, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

In section 160.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Aug 26, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I sat in 160 tonight

with First Pitch tix for only $5.50 each. Much better deal than 130 each. Then again, for a world series game, I would part with 130, maybe more.

by ckeiner on Aug 26, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

how does that work?

if the Cardinals go fewer games, you’re buying more expensive tickets?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

aha

these maths, they pwn me. thanks.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That a fair price actually

It’s an average of $133 a seat (good seats— plus you could always sell 2 or 3 of them) and if the Cardinals play 10 post season home games, it’s going to be a very special year.

sooo…. godfather… any chance I can buy 2 of those off you for World Series game 3?

I

by salukihoops on Aug 26, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah definitely

The only caveat being I don’t know which of the games I’m going to go to. I’d certainly be willing to sell to someone on here. It takes out the middleman and the 25% in total fees StubHub charges.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Aug 26, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Astros lineup via Miklasz tweet

Bourn CF
Pence RF
Berkman 1B
Lee LF
Tejada SS
Blum 3B
Matsui 2B
Coste C
Oswalt P

Carp (or Waino) for NL Cy Young!

by zoomzoomj88 on Aug 26, 2009 5:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I see Bourn hitting leadoff

…and I want to chuckle to myself.

Then I remember that through some BABIP luck (likely less of it than w/ many hitters because he has such great speed) and a real increase in measurable batting eye, Bourn has actually been a pretty effective leadoff hitter this season.

I would imagine he will regress at some point, but nevertheless the current increased BB-rate is a good sign for him and for the Astros…and a bad sign for us Cards fans. The more useless players non-Cardinals players, the better!

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 26, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, surprisingly

He’s been a 3.7 WAR player according to John Marecek, IIRC

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Aug 26, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indians bus has minor accident in KC

[fake blockquote] KANSAS CITY — No one was hurt. No one was shot. No one was wearing go-go boots.

So when compared to the bus incident that transpired with the Tribe here in 2004, what happened Wednesday morning was pretty tame.

En route to Kauffman Stadium for the series finale against the Royals, the Indians’ team bus, which carried eight players, was sideswiped by a car that hydroplaned in the rain on the Blue Parkway. After the minor accident, town cars arrived to take the players to the ballpark, and they arrived about a half-hour later than originally anticipated.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions  

What happened there in 2004?

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

a rookie dodged a bullet because of his go-go boots.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

"a random gunshot struck pitcher Kyle Denney in the right calf"

linkity

I see Yadi2 beat me to it. What he said.

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was waiting for jd to call bs

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry if I spoiled it

sometimes I’m miss know-it-all

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I ate dinner

Interesting…

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: VEB Community Service

I just wanted to warn you all to NOT click, I say DO NOT CLICK on the link spants has provided in the “fire burning in the outfield” fanshot. For those of you that have already clicked on it, I don’t feel sorry for you because one of you SOBs could have warned me first. For all others, don’t be curious, don’t ask, just DON"T click for GOBs sake.

My grammar is off, I think I needed a semicolon or somethin up there ^. I am gonna blame spants for all grammatical errors for the rest of the night.

"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 26, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

fifteen-year-olds girls do stupid stuff

it can’t be helped

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was not a girl

"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 26, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I watched the OTHER video

good lord! Okay, THAT was not a girl.

Bears should not be allowed to wear leotards.

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tried to warn you

I did not post that information so that video would get more hits.

"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 26, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

dancing hard enough to make the floor and/or camera shake is funny

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I thought!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Aug 26, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

did you just plus one yourself

in a roundabout way?

"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 26, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

She did.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Aug 26, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I kinda thought it was funny

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. Do it. You know you want to.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Aug 26, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitching Rotation

I’ll be at the games saturday and sunday and I’m trying to figure out who’ll be pitching. The probable pitchers on stlcardinals.com says Boggs Saturday and Waino Sunday (coincidentally it’s AW Bobblehead night!). However, the dispatch said “the spot of injured Kyle Lohse, with Brad Thompson, Mitchell Boggs and Blake Hawksworth in the mix to start Friday”. Does that mean it’s Smoltz Saturday? I’m keeping my fingers crossed that this is the case.

THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!

by stltrav09 on Aug 26, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought Smoltz was Friday

But I’d be happy to see him Saturday. I’m going to the Saturday and Sunday games this weekend. And I am going to camp out at the gate like a stalker fangirl for photo day.

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

but only a few hours early...not overnight or anything

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Aug 26, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I found our answer.
Manager Tony La Russa wouldn’t necessarily commit to that, other than to say that John Smoltz and Boggs would start Friday and Saturday, in some order.

THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!

by stltrav09 on Aug 26, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

damnit hit post too early

confirmed on @101espn

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Aug 26, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am really, really glad that Boggs has leap-frogged Thompson and Welly

as our 6th starter. I’m pretty sure he’s gonna be our #5 next year. I can see him doing OK.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 5:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's a greaty weekend promotion wise

Photos on the field saturday. AW Bobbleheads and jersey off their backs day Sunday.

THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!

by stltrav09 on Aug 26, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

the words "Rockies ace Jason Marquis"

are not what you expect to hear in general.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

well cause

A) it would cause you to challenge every thing you hold true

B)its not true in any way. Jimenez’s stats are above and beyond betty’s.

by FunkeeC on Aug 26, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

BUT HEZ GOTT WINZZ@@!!!@!

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 26, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

[weep]

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

just think...

If we kept him we could have a rotation of Carpenter, Wainwright, Pineiro and Marquis!!!!

by Evilfrog on Aug 26, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Betty is now explaining "sick" to SC.

That’s their ‘thing’. That all the kids are saying.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: September callups

Listening to 101 ESPN Radio and they said a few tidbits/speculations about potential callups that I thought were interesting.

  • Matt Pagnozzi isn’t a given for a callup for the third catcher. 101 ESPN mentioned that the Cards could use Stavinoha as the 3rd catcher, backup OF, and emergency 1B
  • Jaime Garcia could get a call up. Tony couldn’t confirm or deny any talks about Garcia.
  • Other than that, didn’t say much and all this is Brian Feldman speculating from what he’s heard and interviewed

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Aug 26, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Ken Rosenthal makes my ears bleed...

Why can’t he talk like a normal person? He says every sentence like he’s telling a ghost story around the campfire.

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Aug 26, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

you're assuming he's a person?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sitting @ hraboskys right now

No beer tub girls…that sucks.
You know, al, that really does.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Aug 26, 2009 7:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Jason Marquis has a New York accent?

I never knew. I hate him even more.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Aug 26, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

staten island little league supporter

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think at this point the only thing that would do

Is increase our ex-Cub factor

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really, really like Murton

and I would really, really like to have him, but I think he’s worth being an every-day player and has limited value as a bench OF. He was my #1 guy I wanted in LF earlier this year, before Holliday. I suppose he’d make a useful plan B if we feel that re-signing Matt is unlikely.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 27, 2009 5:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha, for a sec

i thought that Cody Ross meant Cloby Rasums

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Aug 26, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too

“Cloby”…heh

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cloby Rasums

that might be my favorite one so far

"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 26, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

i saw someone else call him cloby before

so i stole it and dyslexiced his last name a little too.
my “real life” friends hate it when i call him that, but i do it all the time.

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Aug 26, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like that even more than Rasputin

and I did not think that was possible

"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 26, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

how about Rasmusin?

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 26, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cody Ramos is my current fave

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 26, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish you guys would stop

messing with Moby Slashums name. It’s just not funny anymore.

by DarkHelmut on Aug 26, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take a ride on that knockdown pitch Big Boy

yeah, that is why I love Mike Shannon. Keep em coming Moonman!

"Ludwick, I could kiss you on the nuts!" - the red baron 7-29-09

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 26, 2009 7:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Great...

MLB Network is already stooping to ESPN’s level. They just put up a graphic at the bottom of the screen that said “What rock superstar is at Yankee Stadium tonight?” and mentioned it briefly. Then they went to commercial as if that makes me want to know any more. Awesome.

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Aug 26, 2009 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

when did WW have a complete game?

FSMW’s graphic just gave carp, waino, and pineiro a CG apiece

by EinFesteBusch on Aug 26, 2009 8:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I think the rain-shortened 5-inning win over Washington is considered a CG

"You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don’t want to do is hit a home run. That’s a rally-killer." - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Aug 26, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah, yes

well, whatever gets it done right?

by EinFesteBusch on Aug 26, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did pitch 9 innings in a game that went 10

so getting the CG in a rain-shortened outing sort of makes up for it.

No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.

by RunninRedbird on Aug 27, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

The rain shortened game in Washington

a few weeks ago.

"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."

by Smokin Turkeys on Aug 26, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

game thread?

hello? is this thing on?

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Aug 26, 2009 8:05 PM EDT reply actions  

JERK

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Aug 26, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jerk.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 26, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah!

Wait, what?

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 26, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicken

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Aug 26, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

i like chicken

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Aug 26, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are the result of f'''(x)

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

are we getting a game thread

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions  

forgot a )

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big Dunc is back

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Is the game alreay happening?

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 26, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

cancelled

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Aug 26, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

bunt?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 26, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Harden on the ropes already!

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Aug 26, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions  

So, should I just Fanpost this?

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 26, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions  

did dan just say fat elvis was in great shape?

holy fucking shit®™ ©

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Aug 26, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions  

nice inning pinata

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions  

has anyone else been turned off of wolfenstein because of the commercial

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions  

got a game thread up

can’t do a link. Sorry.

I've made a huge tiny mistake.

by the red baron on Aug 26, 2009 8:22 PM EDT reply actions  

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