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The 2009 Draft in Review, Part One

Trust me, Matt. We all feel the same.(AP Photo/Tom Gannam)

More photos » by Tom Gannam - AP

Trust me, Matt. We all feel the same.(AP Photo/Tom Gannam)

Gee, wasn't that an awful game last night?

It felt a whole lot like one of last year's losses, to be honest. Lots and lots of baserunners, yet the Cardinals just couldn't seem to get that one big hit to break things open. They had eight hits in the first four innings, and pretty much nothing to show for it. Yep, just like 2008 all over again. There was even some bullpen frustration, in the person of one Jason Motte, in whom I am really beginning to lose faith. The really odd thing about Motte isn't that he's struggling, it's the way he's struggling. I'm sure I've been down this road before, so I won't belabour the point too very much, but remember when Motte came up last year? He threw really, really hard, stalked around like a crazy person on the mound, and filled the strike zone with fastballs. Sure, he didn't have much of another pitch, but when you throw that hard and consistently put the ball in the zone, you don't really need one all that badly.

Well, this year, Motte's control is markedly worse, and I can't decide if it's because he's lost confidence in his ability to just blow it by hitters or if his control is actually regressing. He's throwing more offspeed stuff, and that's where he's giving up most of his hits, to be honest. His delivery is slower and more measured now than it was early in the year when he was dominating, and he's much less animated on the mound. I honestly don't know what's going on with Motte, but I'm not sure it's just the usual struggles of a young pitcher trying to figure out how best to get outs at the major league level. And I'm sure lots of people will just piss and moan about how Motte is just awful, and I'm way overanalyzing this, but that is, quite frankly, bullshit. Pitchers struggle all the time, but this isn't just struggling. This is a guy who literally looks like a completely different pitcher, even from who he was just a couple months ago.

So what's the fix? Honestly, I don't know, because I don't understand the problem. I don't know if Motte has just lost confidence, or if trying to slow down his delivery to stay under control has caused this, or if he's gotten himself all screwed up trying to figure out a bunch of offspeed stuff, or if his arm is about to fall off. It could be none of the above, or it could be all of the above. Whatever the case, things are going badly wrong with Jason Motte, and the coaching staff needs to figure out some way to get him back on track, and fast. Does it say more about the coaches or me that I have absolutely no faith in their ability to do so?

Anyhow, enough of all that. In the comments section yesterday, there was some discussion of whether the Cardinals have made any real progress in the signing of Shelby Miller, their first round draft pick in June. Fourstick pointed out I haven't ever properly put together a draft review; shockingly enough, I realised I hadn't done so. I was certain I had written up such a document at some point, but no. Therefore, I scrapped what I had been mulling over for today (trust me, it was a pretty weak idea; you aren't missing anything), and decided that, with less than a week to go until the signing deadline for draftees, we should have a pretty good idea of how it turned out by now. And so I present to you, the El Vivi Birders Reader (put that one in your glossary, Yadi), my 2009 Draft Wrap.

Star-divide

I'm going to break this down round by round for the first seven rounds this week, then cover the rest of the draft as a whole next week. I was going to give letter grades, but instead decided to opt for a bit less concrete form of grading. Anyhow...

1st Round Pick- Shelby Miller, RHP Texas HS

This is the big one, really, the one we're all so worried about the Cardinals signing. Miller is the highest upside arm the Cardinals have drafted since probably Mark McCormick in 2005, and comes without the baggage of poor college performance and an injury history McCormick brought along. It was a gutsy pick at 19 for the Cardinals, who have shied away from players of this ilk in recent years, and a really excellent choice to boot. With the departure of Brett Wallace, the up and down season of Daryl Jones, and the graduation of Colby Rasmus to big league backup, Shelby Miller could very well be the Cards' #1 prospect next year if he signs, based entirely on projection.

The question, of course, is whether he'll sign, and I'm sure plenty of people out there are getting understandably antsy. Not to worry, I say, and this is why: Of the 30 players selected in the first round of this year's draft, only 13 have signed. That's right. Thirteen. What this says to me is that most of these other players have reached deals with their picks, but are waiting until the last second to announce them in order to push the resulting firestorm straight through the commissioner's office. I think 2009 is going to be the straw that finally breaks the draft camel's back and forces the league to do something differently in terms of slotting. Personally, I've always been against the slotting practice; the arguments that players in the league aren't getting paid as much as kids straight out of college, even though they've accomplished so much more and blah blah blah holds no water with me. No player is paid according to what he's done. Players are paid according to how much leverage they have. Players in the draft already have no choice as to where they're going, and now we want to limit how much money they can try to get? Doesn't seem too very fair to me. However, at some point, this whole mess is beginning to hurt the teams, the players, and the game itself. A slotting system isn't going to be fair, I don't believe, but I do think it's going to end up being necessary, just to make it so teams can actually draft, sign, and develop players in any kind of effective manner.

Alright. Enough of that digression. This is the bottom line: I think the Cardinals will sign Shelby Miller, and I think he's going to be very, very good. Even at a $4 million bonus or so, I think the Cards learned their lesson in the Rick Porcello fiasco; i.e. if you want the top talent, you're going to have to be willing to either buy it or invest in it. Investing is much cheaper than trying to buy it on the open market. If the Cardinals do somehow fail to sign Miller, I think it takes much of the lustre off this draft class.

2nd Round - Robert Stock, C, University of Southern California

In the second round, the Cardinals took one of the more intriguing picks available, choosing Robert Stock, the 19 year old former phenom out of USC. Stock was a two-way player at USC, and plenty of scouts and the like feel as if he has more potential on the mound than behind the plate. Nonetheless, the Cardinals took him as a catcher, and I completely agree with the move. He signed very quickly after the draft and was tossed right into short-season ball.

Stock has played at Johnson City since signing, and is currently hitting .351/.427/.567 with 4 homers. His BABIP is very high at .400, so he's definitely due for some regression there, but he's also hitting line drives at a 22% clip, so he is making hard contact on a consistent basis. The walk rate is a little low, with only 8 walks in 110 plate appearances, but that's the sort of thing that can certainly be worked on. Besides, when a guy is hitting as well as Stock has so far in his short pro career, it's tough to criticise him for not taking more pitches. I like his swing, particularly the way he uses his hands, though I think he could do a better job of syncing up his upper and lower body. Even so, his ISO is 216 right now, so he's doing a nice job of driving the ball at the very least.

Behind the plate, Stock has always grabbed good reviews, particularly for his arm, which generated fastballs as high as 95 off the mound. The rest of his defensive package is supposedly sound fundamentally, though there was talk as he moved through his college career that he had regressed in some of those areas. To me, I'm not all that concerned; as young as he was, playing at a major college program, I'm frankly impressed he managed to keep his head above water at all. (Remember, Stock graduated early from high school to start at USC when he was just 17.)

Personally, I'm thrilled the Cardinals allowed Stock to remain a catcher for now. The importance of positional value is tough to overstate, and to have a guy at catcher with the kind of offensive ceiling Stock has is a mighty valuable commodity. If he sounds a little like Bryan Anderson, that's probably because he is, a lefty-swinging catcher who projects to be an offensive-minded player down the road. The difference between the two is Stock doesn't have so many defensive questions attached, and a better, less handsy swing.

So does he end up at catcher or pitcher long-term? Well, as Azru pointed out in the comments over at FR, the Cardinals may not have actually liked Stock as a catcher better, but took the path of least resistance, as he wanted to be a catcher. They may still be looking at him as a pitcher down the road. But to me, when a 19 year old comes into pro ball and hits the way Stock has so far at such a premium position, I think you have to leave him there. To me, he's a catcher, and could be a damned good one. Also, and prepare yourself for a bit of a Dan 'n Al Moment here, you'll see a theme in some of the Cards' draft picks this year: taking players who are exceptionally young for their experience level. JuCo players with great tools, guys like Stock, that sort of thing. With Stock, who is only nineteen years old and yet has already played three years in the toughest college baseball conference in the nation, it's like getting a college player, but he's still the age of a high schooler.

Can I get a You Know, it Really Is?

3rd Round - Joe Kelly, RHP, University of California, Riverside

Let me get this out of the way up front: I'm a big fan of Joe Kelly. Players who can touch 99 on the gun, with a ton of movement, don't just grow on trees. Even so, Kelly never put up quite the number in college you would expect, getting hit much more than someone with his stuff should. He falls into one of those odd demographics, that of the somewhat raw college pitcher, and while I'm not normally a fan of that, I think the upside here could be significant. Kelly signed quickly after the draft (you'll notice a pattern here), and  has been pitching for short-season Batavia.

Kelly's line so far is a mixed bag. His ERA is very high, at 4.70, but his FIP is a full two runs lower, at 2.68. Ordinarily, you would think he's obviously been hugely unlucky so far, but his low FIP also features a 0% HR rate, which won't continue. So far, he's been much the pitcher he was in college, a guy with ridiculous talent who, for whatever reason, gives up more hits than he should. Let's call it the Adam Reifer syndrome. He's striking out hitters at a little less than a batter per inning, and is only walking 5.6% of hitters he's faced.

Kelly has three pitches, a plus-plus fastball that touches 99 (think of Ryan Perry, the reliever for the Tigers), a hard slider that rates a plus pitch, and a nice changeup that's average now, and might be just a tick above down the line. With three usable pitches, there's been some talk of moving Kelly to a starting role, and I don't think that would be a terrible idea. Personally, I still think he's a reliever down the line (he closed in college, and has mostly worked in relief so far as a pro), but putting him into the rotation certainly isn't going to hurt.

I'm not a big fan of Kelly's arm action; it's very long and somewhat slingy, and some scouts have theorized the reason he's so hittable is because hitters have an easy time tracking such a long arm action. I have no idea if that's the case or not, but I do think the Cardinals would do well to help him tighten up his delivery some.

Bottom line, I think the Cards did a very nice job on this pick. Kelly has a first-round arm, but fell to the third because his numbers are a little iffy. He could move very quickly through the system, and as we've seen this season, you can never have enough bullpen depth. Kelly's ceiling is as a closer, but I think it's more likely he ends up a fireballing setup man. Who knows, maybe he takes to starting, but he just feels like a reliever to me. I don't know why.

4th Round - Scott Bittle, RHP, Ole Miss

Now this one is interesting. It pissed off a bunch of people when the Cardinals took Bittle here, as he's a right-handed reliever with a pretty significant injury history. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Cards taking the exact same player every damned round, and especially when it's a type of player we already have too many of anyway. Of course, since trading away so many right-handed relievers, the cupboard is no longer quite so chock-full of them.

Bittle signed only recently, for a below-slot amount of $75,000. The delay, and the low amount, are based on his medical history, which includes lots and lots of shoulder issues, and the fact he's fifth-year college senior, and as such had absolutely no leverage. Scary? Yes. But the thing is, the numbers for Bittle don't lie.

He's put up literal Nintendo number pretty much every season, with his 2008 campaign being one for the ages. He struck out 16.6 batters per nine innings that year, and even this season, while missing time due to a shoulder strain, still managed to strike out 13.4/9.

Don't get me wrong, Scott Bittle is a definite risk. With his history of shoulder issues, you have to worry he has some sort of chronic problem and the Cardinals will never get anything out of him. But in the end, a fourth-round pick and less than a hundred grand is a fairly small gamble. And with those number, the payoff could be significant. He hasn't made his pro debut yet, but the Cards have him on a throwing program designed to strengthen his shoulder, and he's supposedly going to enter into the system at Palm Beach.

As for what it says about the Cards' drafting strategy, I'm not at all upset by them taking this type player. I know, I'm one who always clamours for more upside at the top of the draft, but as I've watched this minor league system evolve, I've softened my stance somewhat. I still want upside at the very top, the first round players, because that's where you have the true monster talents, I think, and you want to take advantage of those. Your core players mostly come from the first couple rounds, non- Albert division, anyhow. But as you move into these middle sort of rounds, there are lots of ways to go. And I've said it before, but I'll say it again: developing your own relievers is incredibly efficient, compared to actually signing them on the open market. We've all been very frustrated with the bullpen's performance of late; just think how much worse it would be if we were actually paying all these guys free agent prices.

If Bittle is healthy, he'll fly through the system. He has one pitch, his cutter, that is just unhittable, and a reliever's mentality. We may only be looking at a 3-5 year career for a guy like this, but even in just those years, he could be an extremely valuable commodity. I think he ends up a setup guy in the mold of someone like Keith Foulke: not overpowering, but with one pitch so good he can just air it out over and over again and get outs. I think it was a risk worth taking, as the Cardinals pulled yet another guy who had been projected as a first-rounder at some point.

5th Round- Ryan Jackson, SS, University of Miami

Of the first five draft picks the Cards took this year, all five had, at one point or another, been mentioned as possible first rounders. Bittle went in the supplemental round to the Yankees in '08 before they decided they didn't like his shoulder MRI, Robert Stock was Bryce Harper before Bryce Harper was Bryce Harper (okay, so the level of hype wasn't quite as high, but there was still talk of him making the majors by the time he was 20), Joe Kelly was projected as a mid-first rounder before his junior season, when his number just weren't great, and Shelby Miller, well, he is a first round pick. Add to that Ryan Jackson, the shortstop with the magic glove out of the U.

Jackson has been known as a defensive wizard for several years, but has been known as an offensive liability for almost as long. His sophomore year of college, he began to turn that reputation around, as he posted a .918 OPS, but he fell back just as hard his junior year, with a .741.

Jackson signed right around the same time Stock and Kelly did, and made his debut shortly after in Batavia. So far, what Jackson has done is pretty much exactly what you would expect from an all-glove, no-hit shortstop. The reports on his defense have been sterling, but he's hit only .236/.307/.261. He has yet to hit a home run.

Still, Jackson isn't completely hopeless at the plate. He's walking in more than 10% of his plate appearances, while striking out in 14%. Small victories, I know, but a good contact rate and plate discipline are certainly decent places to start. He may remain Adam Everett his whole career, but a guy like that still has plenty of value. That offensive spike his sophomore year points to there being more ability in his bat than we've seen so far as well. Regardless, Jackson was a steal in the fifth round, a player who entered the 2009 season in the conversation as the best collegiate shortstop of the class, and most analysts had pegged somewhere in the 3rd round. He plays a premium position, and plays it beautifully. The Cardinals certainly could have done worse here, and I think Jackson was a very good use of the pick.

6th round- Virgil Hill, OF, Los Angeles Mission College (JC)

Okay, first things first: Virgil Hill is the most athletic player the Cardinals took in this entire draft. While I doubt the veracity of his college coach's claim that Hill can run a 6.0 60 (that's off the charts, world-class sprinter speed; the best NFL return men usually fall in the 6.2-6.3 range), the fact is, Hill is extremely fast. His father is a professional boxer, so the athletic bloodlines are certainly there as well. Plus, you have to admit, Quicksilver Jr. is just too cool a nickname.

Here's the problem with Virgil Hill: he doesn't really know what he's doing at the plate just yet. He hit very well in college, but that was for a small JuCo school. Pro ball hasn't been all that kind to him yet, as he's hitting only .225/.317/.324 for the Cardinals' Gulf Coast League affiliate, the lowest level of minor league ball the Cards have in America. He's striking out in almost 30% of his plate appearances, and isn't walking a whole lot, either. He has stolen 9 bases, rather impressive considering he's only been on base 36 times.

Hill is clearly a long-term project, Daryl Jones with even better speed. If the minor league coaching staff can develop his bat, Hill could turn into a very useful player. It's impossible at this point to say what his ceiling might be, simply because he's so far away. But as a choice made purely on tools, I like this pick. Maybe Hill never develops into anything, maybe he turns into Carl Crawford. It's impossible to say. Nonetheless, this is a really exiting gamble.

7th round - Kyle Conley, OF, University of Washington

I'll be honest with you: I wasn't a fan of this pick when it was made. And so far, I'm still not a huge fan of it. Conley is a big, strong kid who plays primarily right field, a bit like Jon Edwards, one of my own favourite sleeper prospects who has been a sleeper going on three seasons now.

Conley started out at Low A Quad Cities after being drafted, and was clearly overmatched. He hit only .200, with a .542 OPS, and was striking out in a full third of his PAs. Wisely, the Cardinals moved him down a level before he got just absolutely buried, and he has taken off since moving to Batavia, hitting .375/.483/.875, good for an OPS of 1.358. (!) It's only 29 PAs, yes, but just the fact he's been able to make hard contact consistently since moving down is cause for optimism. Odd stat fact: at QC, Conley was striking out 33.3% of the time, but also had a 23% line drive rate. He either crushed the ball or missed it entirely, apparently, with very little in between; to me, that signifies a player who can hit a fastball really, really hard, but has little to no ability to recognise breaking pitches, missing them completely.

Conley is really kind of an odd pick, as he was a college senior, yet had fairly little experience playing baseball. He was a football player primarily through high school and some of college, and then tore up his shoulder on a checked swing early in his college playing days. He missed quite a lot of time with that, before coming back strong his senior season. Thus, you have a player who's already 22 and will turn 23 before opening day of 2009, yet has little experience playing baseball at a high level and is still very raw. He has a strong arm, but isn't all that athletic, so it's likely he won't be a plus fielder. Overall, it's kind of an odd combination.

What Conley does bring, though, is power, and plenty of it. He can hit a baseball a very long way, and has always been noted for his patience at the plate. In looking for a comp, maybe he's sort of a right-handed Adam Dunn, only without the hatred for America?

Bottom line, I thought there were other players the Cards would have done better to take here, but there are some intriguing things about Conley. I'm still not a huge fan, but that doesn't mean he couldn't turn into something good.

Alright, folks. That's it. I'll cover the rest of the draft picks next week, by which time we'll know for sure if Miller signed or not. Take care.

The Baron's Playlist for the 12th of August, 2009: Ladies' Day

 "Sick Muse"- Metric

"Cherry Tulips"- Headlights

"Suzanne"- Hope Sandoval and the Warm Inventions

"Forests and Sands"- Camera Obscura

"Drill 'Em All"- Ruth Wallis

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oh dear...
His delivery is slower and more measured now than it was early in the year when he was dominating, and he’s much less animated on the mound.

Did he get Duncan’d?

Last year Yadi was obsessed with slowing him down, when what I was seeing was a clear rhythm that enabled him to mess with the hitter’s head, as well as deliver good pitches.

Or maybe Chris Perez was his BFF.

But yeah, I was a little taken aback by Motte’s demeanor last night. It was rather un-Sauce.

I do think he’s got to straighten out his pitch selection.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

For the glossary,

I would suggest that Motte has been “Dunc’d.” Kind of like with Ashton Kutcher, but with Dave Duncan.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

only if it enters regular parlance

I’m tied to the metrics, man. No going with my gut. That’s for geniuses.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, Duncan and Perez having similar problems is leading me to believe he got

Duncaned

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*Motte

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sauce, noooooo.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wondered how many posts it would take

for this suggestion to come up. Not that I necessarily disagree with it. I just hope we don’t start comparing Motte to a certain other pitcher who, many on the board decided, Duncan broke.

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 12, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ARey or YP?

because he broke both of them, and now it looks like he’s breaking Apple Sauce. why he can’t just leave pitchers alone who aren’t broken, i’ll never know. but i wish MO or Bill would step in & stop him.

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Aug 12, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

An interesting draft

The Cardinals got five players that were in discussions of being 1st round picks at one point or another, so I guess that’s a positive, right?

godfather of futureredbirds.net

by erik on Aug 12, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe it is.

Naturally, I defer to your expertise in the end. So, are we getting a real paper prospect handbook?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

or

back to the future

time will tell i guess

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Aug 12, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

taking a quick look at a stat that hasn't gotten a ton of play on VEB:

Motte’s fastball has taken a huge hit in value — in a very small sample, his FB went from being worth 3.67 wFB/C (runs above average per hundred pitches thrown) in a small 08 sample size to being below average: -0.66 in 2009. He throws the FB 75% of the time.

His secondary pitches have gotten mixed reviews. The slider hasn’t gotten hit too badly – at 1.17 wSL/C for a minor positive value. He throws that about 12% of the time. The rest of the secondary pitches are listed as a weird mix of stuff – probably mostly wrongly classified pitches. Fangraphs HATES the splitter it picks up occasionally (3% of the time): -10.48 wSF/C. The cut fastball it picks up is about average.

Anyway, the long and short is that his fastball is getting beat up pretty bad. if you throw at 95-96 mph, and your FB is below average, you’re doing something wrong. if your FB is your go-to pitch 75% of the time, you’re going to pitch like a below average pitcher. something’s wrong with motte, and it’s not his secondary pitches.

i loved hope sandoval with mazzy star. i thought “bavarian fruit bread” was a tolerable solo follow up; not terrific, but mostly i’m sad that she’s kind of fallen off the map. what a gorgeous voice.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My concern with Motte

fastball velocity.

Even a flat, grooved FB at ~100mph is hard to hit, for major leaguers. But Motte’s sitting around the 95, 96 range a lot this year. Because of that, he’s taken a few hits (mostly hard, aerial ones) when guys have just sat on the fastball, knowing he throws it ~90% of the time. Because of that, he’s trying to nibble more, and because of that, he’s walking guys.

I’d like him to finish the year throwing nothing but his best, hardest FB to right-handers (I’d prefer him not to face lefties at all) and I’d like them to work on a changeup with him over the winter. I realise it’s not a pitch he’s ever used, but, at his speed, he doesn’t need a huge difference in pace to really upset hitters’ timing, and I think it’s maybe an easier pitch to control than the breaking stuff he’s used so far. My main concern with this plan is that, to the best of my knowledge, Duncan/the organisation is a not a changeup fan (or indeed coaches it at all – other than Hawksworth, I can’t think of any pitchers high up in our system that use it as their main secondary pitch, now Mortensen’s gone).

More velocity, more stuff in the zone, less crappy breaking balls. Also, face fewer hitters (maybe just righties) and pitch less on consecutive days. That’s how I’d manage Motte.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 13, 2009 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pics or it didn't happen

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

Shut up, Fritz™.

by Alxfritz on Aug 12, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you, sir, may have won.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

david sunflower seeds suck

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Aug 12, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you tried Spitz Dill Pickle?

"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 12, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is very gritty

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

booglicious, even.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

careful with that thing

it contains the power of Boog’s vengeance. it is more powerful than you will ever know (not powerful enough to not shrink in a warm wash though, so be careful!)

by mattyp on Aug 12, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

have some sunflower seeds

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand the Porcello comment

I’ve seen it mentioned repeatedly on Porcello that we “screwed up”. Maybe I have my facts wrong, but didn’t a whole bunch of teams pass on Porcello or did he go in the pick after us?

Wasn’t the issue “signabililty” in that he wanted insanely more money than other folks in the draft?

Seems more to me that Luhnow can’t be held responsible for the reasonable position that they didn’t want to pay $8 million to a high school player.

Just win

by The Duke on Aug 12, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He wanted a Major League contract too

not just the signing bonus.

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Aug 12, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I always forget about that

That’s kind of crazy.
I wonder: Assuming that Porcello was just out of the question, does anybody remember who else was available at that time that the Cardinals might have drafted instead of Kozma? I’m not trying to be mean to Kozma or something, I’m just curious. A lot of the Kozma disappointment is linked to the Porcello situation. But was there a better choice that someone wanted to see the Cardinals make besides Porcello?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Aug 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i won't claim to have any foresight here.

but looking back at the draft list, aaron poreda was taken after kozma, as was tim alderson — both recent centerpieces in trades (for peavy and freddy sanchez, respectively).

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hm

I knew next to nothing about either of those guys. Poreda looks interesting. FIP of 3.30 or so even though he’s walking 6+/9, 55% GBs. Ah well.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Aug 12, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

alderson

is supposedly pretty high ceiling. he was second on the giants’ list after bumgarner

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 12, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's very polished

but his stuff is not hugely inspiring. He’s probably better than any pitcher in our system but from what I’ve heard I dunno if he’s more than a #3 at MLB level. Thing is, he’s very high floor – doesn’t walk many, gets groundballs, and has a bunch of league-average pitches. Seems to me that his upside isn’t as high as some, but he’s got an excellent chance of making it. Giants got absolutely raped on that one.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 13, 2009 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both of those guys

would have been better choices for us, since we had just graduated two pitchers out of our system (Wainwright and Reyes) to the majors in the couple of years before that draft. Kozma was a need based draft pick, but drafting a high school kid for an immediate need is just silly, unless that high school kid is A-Rod or Griffey.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not many people hold Luhnow responsible for the Porcello screw up

most people lay that blame on the shoulders of Dewitt

by dcfcblues on Aug 12, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

RB just called it a fiasco -- a drafting selection that is remembered years later, by many fans, as a

terrible decision counts as a fiasco.

i’d probably say that (ignoring the obvious hindsight factor) i agree with the club about not signing porcello. there’s solid arguments to be made on both sides. but i think shelby miller asking for $3-4M is more reasonable than porcello asking for $8m and a ML contract.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess that's my point

Most clubs decided not to go there. It’s not like he fell into our lap and we were the only team that chose not to set that precedent. To me it’s like saying , we would be a better team with a payroll of $130 million a year — what a bunch of screw-ups in management.

Just win

by The Duke on Aug 12, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the blame

is that Porcello was #1 on the Cards draft board and they didn’t sign him b/c of the money (whether it’s ML contact or not).

Luhnow, et al wanted him but the owner’s wouldn’t pay.

(or at least that’s how I remember it and a tweet from Derrick Goold reinforced this)

by creativereason on Aug 12, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree...

… it’s not the money, it’s the ML contract that kills.

but Detroit was able to mitigate that somewhat by adding cheap options for ‘11 and ’12. if both are exercised, Porcello’s deal will be something like 6/$10mn. which makes the whole thing more palatable.

by kindred on Aug 12, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct

everyone always talks about the money — it was putting him immediately on the 40 man roster that had a lot of teams balking about his deal, and deservedly so. He wasn’t Doc Gooden or anything, most people pegged him to be 2-3 years away when he was drafted and he got to the majors quicker than that — nobody would have foreseen him being this good this quickly.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Nobody"?

Detroit apparently did, since they basically acceded to his demands.

by StanTheManFan on Aug 12, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way

did Detroit think that he would have started the year in the big leagues in 2009. They were taking a gamble that he would be a good pitcher for them at some point. Hindsight is always 20/20 on these things — you’d be calling them a group of morons if he was struggling like Pete Kozma has struggled for us.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that you, Pete?

Who knew that you referred to yourself in the third person as “The Duke?”

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good roundup RB

And I wasn’t chastising you for not putting one up, I simply thought that you probably had one in the works and were waiting to see what happened with Miller before throwing up a post about the draft next Wednesday.

I really like our draft this year, and I think this 2009 draft in itself really opened up the worm can for Moz to make deals to put the ‘09 Cardinals in playoff and World Series contention. Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I don’t think that we trade away both Perez and Todd if we hadn’t drafted Kelly and Bittle (although Sanchez’s emergence probably helped as well).

There’s a lot of potential here, and it’s nice to see that Stock has gotten off to such a great start in rookie ball. He could be the absolute steal of this draft considering how highly touted he was a few years ago, and where we were able to pick him up. If he’s able to handle catching with that stick, we have a bona-fide top trading chip on our hands even if he isn’t going to be Molina’s replacement. I hope he continues to hit…

I would use 2008’s version of Pat Burrell as an upside comp for Conley — big power numbers and lots of strikeouts from the right side.

I’m not high on Jackson — that pick was ok, but I thought there were some other talents in that fifth round that the Cards could have taken instead of basically adding another player who is very similar to two other players in the system already (Kozma and Vasquez) who are also both younger than Jackson is. Sure, he might have been whispered as first round talent, but there’s a reason he was there in the fifth, and a team with two similar players in its system really shouldn’t be gambling on him if there are other players (Kyle Bellamy, Caleb Cotham, Matthew Way — all college pitchers) available to roll the dice with.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re: "gambling" on Jackson

I kinda take a different view, fourstick, in that this was, in essence, quite a conservative pick. I’m pretty sure they got Jackson as Kozma insurance – Pete’s struggled (quite badly) so far after being rushed, and a lot of people are questioning his bat at a pretty fundamental level. Additionally, he might not quite be the elite defender he was touted as, either. I think Jackson’s basically plan B for “post-Boog shortstop”.

Vasquez is a total bust, I think, and I’m not sure we’re actually that deep in the middle infield. Only Descalso, at the moment, looks like a genuine future MLB talent, and even that’s only based on one year of AA hitting….

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 13, 2009 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you know, if Albert comes out of this without any wear-and-tear

I’ll be pleased with this little stunt. I mean, Albert looks like he’s enjoying himself.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was surprised no one had brought that up yet

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he seems a helluva lot more relaxed than at the ASG

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

makes sense

this is just a publicity stunt

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get the impression he's genuinely tickled by Shaq

That’s an idea. How about we fly in all the people he idolizes, and give him a break from being idolized? Would that be so ridiculous?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus, he's probably not used to being the small guy

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

as long as he doesn't decide to become law enforcement, that seems like a good plan

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lineup - No Corky Rammus

Schumaker, 2B

Ryan, SS

Pujols, 1B

Holliday, LF

Ludwick, RF

Ankiel, CF

DeRosa, 3B

Molina, C

Carpenter, P

by OCCardsFan on Aug 12, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oh noz, where is corky ramos!!!!???

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Intrestingly enough

Colby has a brother named Corky if anyone didnt know

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on Aug 12, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*Cory sorry

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on Aug 12, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he just pitched a no-no in the appalachian league.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is that the "more-talented brother"?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

really?

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

boog is not a #2 hitter. why not luddy?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boog took some good ABs last night

So now he is a number 2 hitter of course. And Ank once hit a homer off Bailey so he is a better choice than Corky, I suppose.

Luddy batting 2nd would make sense to me. I am glad to see Yadier Slomina batting 8th though.

by OCCardsFan on Aug 12, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

or Holliday?

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 12, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We did not trade for Holliday

To hit him 2nd. We needed a guy to bridge the gap between Albert and guys like Luddy/Glaus/DeRosa.

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 12, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we got holliday

to help us win

and of course to fulfill the fallacy of protection from the 4-hole, which i guess is your point

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 12, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny

Ludwick was the offensive player of the month for July, and Holliday wasn’t here for most of July. I think Luddy in the 4 hole would work out just fine with Derosa hitting behind him in the 5 spot and Ankiel/Rasmus 6th.

There’s an argument to me made that he’d be just as valuable, if not more so, hitting in front of Albert.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

riding the streak

I am not quite pleased.

Unless, of course, someone told him the guy’s name is “Homer” so that means he’ll get a pitch to hit.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt mind seeing

Luddy at the #2 but that would mean Ank is #5 which does not interest me at all

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on Aug 12, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

switch with Boog?

hmmmm.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boog at 5

is not at all better than boog at 2

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on Aug 12, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

dislodging Boog to anywhere else weakens different parts of the lineup.

Well, maybe TLR is riding the hot streak. #2 is terribly iffy, though. Maybe he just wants to give him more pitches to hit.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see that

really im fine with almost anybody there with the exception of Joe Thurston

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on Aug 12, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We wouldn't want to overexpose our rookie would we?

Oh no, for heaven’s sake, Ankiel hasn’t started in one game, we gotta get him in there. Don’t fret that his defense is worse than Colby’s, is 0 for his last 11 and 5 for his last 38, we gotta get him in there.

/sarcastic rant

Sponsored by Slick-Rick 'Stache Cream

by The_teague on Aug 12, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you know... I'm concerned about Greene now

I think less playing time is not the answer in his case. He needs more time on the field, not less.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he should get constant Pinch-hitting ABs

and come in during Tony’s patented double switches…

but until K-Bot can prove he can keep his BA over the mendoza line, I dont give him spots starks.

Sponsored by Slick-Rick 'Stache Cream

by The_teague on Aug 12, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice sig

I’m trying to figure how to work in behavioral conditioning into this comment, but I’m pretty much failing.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely OT: Replaying controversial calls

I was wondering about this myself while I was at the Phils Cards game last week and JSL talked about it today in his chat. I didn’t realize that it was MLB policy to bar teams from replaying controversial calls. From a fan perspective, why should I be in the dark at the stadium while they replay it ad naseum on TV? It kind of kills the experience when you know you’ve gotta go home to watch the highlights just to see if they got the call right or not. Anybody know when the adopted this?

by dugmartsch on Aug 12, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

in the long run, it doesn't matter

The ladies in the row in front of us just called home, and they relayed the replay to everyone.

I think in terms of crowd-control, it might be a good idea not to whip a Philly crowd into a frenzy.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at the game last night and was wondering the same thing

on a couple questionable calls at first and second base that went against us. I figured it was probably MLB policy, but thought there was a small chance the Cards chose to do it on their own. (After all, the Best Fans in Baseball might just up and trash the place if Yadi or Albert gets hosed….)

by BTown Birds fan on Aug 12, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Been doing it for years

Camden Yards opened in 1993 and had tv’s in the club boxes that would receive the local broadcast. When there was a close play, the stadium replay wouldn’t show it but some people could watch on the club box tv’s to see the replay.

by ubeddie on Aug 12, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT: So you know how when I joined a while back,

I said I’d been lurking since 2006? Well, I decided to see if I had created an account or anything in the past before creating this one, and I couldn’t figure out why the username (this one) wasn’t coming up as used or something, because I could’ve sworn I had one. Oh well, I thought, I’m just stupid and forgetful.

Anyhow, I was signing in today and accidentally put a space in between the two words in my un, and lo and behold, SB Nation welcomed me back.

So, I have an account from 2006. With a UID and everything. After I claimed it, I realized I could’ve claimed it with this one and brought all that activity over, but I’m stupid so I didn’t realize that in time. I’m pretty sure I’ll transfer my activity over there now though. So, yeah.

I’m still tickled I have a UID number, even though it’s in the low 1000 range.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Aug 12, 2009 5:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And, here it is.

Booyah.

Btw, RB, awesome post today. It was well worth waiting for.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by il rosso on Aug 12, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's cool, dude.

(The lack of responses to this was tragic.)

by mojowo11 on Aug 12, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is pretty awesome

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Aug 12, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

I also had a different screen name, but I cannot remember what it is. I’ve tried a bunch of stuff, but nothing. That’s cool that you figured yours out.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Aug 13, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought on my old blog

there was some sort of variant of spantalones commenting, maybe?

Shut up, Fritz™.

by Alxfritz on Aug 13, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was me.

I looked up spantalones, but found nothing.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Aug 13, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

alright

enough people are doing it. Where in the world do I find this number?

by stlfan on Aug 13, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nevermind

1960 on here and 776 on Royals Review.

Does it only kick in after 100+ posts or something?

by stlfan on Aug 13, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smoltz refused minors assignment

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kick the tires, Mo. Kick them good.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 12, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can see us bringing

him in for some bullpen depth

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on Aug 12, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And much needed

veteranenness.

Shut up, Fritz™.

by Alxfritz on Aug 12, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mmmm veteranness. creamy goodness!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OTM says that the Didgers are looking at him.

How much do you give for him? They are thinking that they won’t get much. Or do we take a chance of him not getting traded and picking him up later?

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 12, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Smoltz contract remain intact if traded

He has a wierd clause about being paid $35,000 per day on the active roster. If so, wait until he is a free agent than try to sign him.

by ubeddie on Aug 12, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, after he has passed through waivers, his contract is all on the sox.

if released, he gets picked up for prorated league min. if traded, same deal (though part of the trade may require that the picking up team pay the sox part of the salary).

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

blurbs from mo, dgoold.

mo thinks daryl jones should get some time in winter leagues, kozma to remain at Spfld next year.

mo denies that sanchez is a candidate for sept. callup.

mo says mather is working out in jupiter.

goold tweets that 2008 international signing luis de la cruz is going to the Penn League ASG, along with 1b prospect to watch Alan Ahmady (2009 11th round sign) and Santo Maertz .

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i thought

de la cruz was ding horribly? am i thinking of someone else?

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 12, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm confusing roberto de la cruz (not yet 18) and luis de la cruz (20yo).

luis © was selected to the ASG – according to goold – but was a 2007 signing. roberto de la cruz (3b) was the 2008 signing that got the huge bonus. otoh, both of them had pretty suck seasons this year.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ah yeah

i was confusing them, too. yeah, roberto de la cruz was the big signing that has flopped so far

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 12, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's still not yet 18.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the GCL is the weirdest thing in the world

three of the top four news items on the MiLB landing page is “GCL team A no-hits GCL team B.” It really is just an instructional league with box scores.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 12, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i realize the GCL and DSL are pretty informal

but if we’re going to cream over grabiel hernandez, we can be a little disappointed in roberto de la cruz

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 12, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would strongly suggest that grabiel hernandez is a nice prospect but

that the GCL stats probably tell you no more than what you knew at drafting time. please refrain from any undue ejaculation.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

TWSS.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 13, 2009 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if we....

get Glaus back before September, wouldn’t that be like—

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You know it really is

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on Aug 12, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i will believe it when i see it.

i don’t think we need to go through the tortured chronology of projected return dates (the first one was the end of April, IIRC) for Mr. Glaus.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aaron Crow

RB,

If Crow doesn’t sign what happens? does he have to go through draft again next year? Does not signing two years in a row make economic sense for him?

Just win

by The Duke on Aug 12, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is massively OT, but...

I guess this is what happens when club doesn’t have Albert Pujols.

Huh. Human nature affecting the way a human being plays baseball? Why, I thought they were automatons, performing exactly the way statistics on a stat sheet say they will, every single time they pitch, bat, run the bases or field. At least, that’s what I’ve been told.

Not hustling is just human nature…

Or maybe it’s just the cubs.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

^a club

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since when does statistics have to do with hustle?

I normally think Al is pretty fair, but that’s a really ridiculous statement to make in lieu of what we’re talking about here: with 2 outs in an inning, Theriot simply didn’t bust his ass to home plate, and it nearly cost the Cubs a run. Sorry, Ryan, but you get paid a handsome amount of money to play a game, and if you can’t bother to bust your ass for 180 feet to make sure your team scores a run, you deserve to be called out by your team’s announcer, no matter what game, day, or time it occurs. There’s simply no excuse to NOT hustle on that play, the situation demands it.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

I was just stunned by its… I don’t even have words.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 12, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe the BCB said that,

Brenly was trying to build a “strawman” out of this whole thing. It had nothing really to do with Theriot but the fact that Brenly called him out. Couldn’t really believe what I was reading.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 12, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I should say the posters on the BCB were saying this.

Several were bagging on the writer for suggesting that Brenly was correct.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 12, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miklasz with a tweet:

http://twitter.com/miklasz/status/3273763748

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Aug 12, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Shocked!

That’s what I am, SHOCKED!!!

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see one of them, not both

Spier more than Smoltz, Spier is under contract for next year too I thought. If he comes around we have a real cheap arm

by from First to Third on Aug 12, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hardy and Hall DFA?!?

I’m just saying I’d take either over being thursty. Hell I’d rather have Hall than Greene. Now there would be a trade.

by Harknights on Aug 12, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hall was dfa'd. hardy outrighted to the minors.

i can’t see why you would want hall – he’s basically brian barden. good glove, poor hitting.compare barden’s hitting to hall’s this year, and i think barden comes out ahead.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hardy and free agency

if the brewers leave hardy in the minors for 21 days, JJ won’t be a free agent until after 2011. Talk about screwing someone.

by ubeddie on Aug 12, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He kinda screwed himself

with his play this year. Just like any other job, you don’t do it well, you could get replaced by the next guy in line, and that’s what’s happened here.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Call up on Sept 2nd

means he is under team control through 2011. Call up on Sept 1 means he is a free agent after the 2010 season.

by ubeddie on Aug 12, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again

do you think the Brewers are sending him down if he’s hitting like he was last year? NO fucking way — but he’s given them that option by not playing well this season so they’re going to see what they have in Escobar and possibly move him in the offseason. He’s much more attractive with one more year of team control right?

Why is it screwing the player? Hardy’s been screwing the team with his performance thus far, so they should protect their investment right now to maximize it’s value later. Like I said, it’s no different than business done in any other industry.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 13, 2009 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not as screwed as he'll be when he gets traded to washington or wherever in the offseason

b/c escobar does well in the bigs.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

did they call him up?

if so, exciting times

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 12, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup. they're going to see what they've got.

i think if he doesn’t totally screw the pooch, hardy is trade bait.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Aug 12, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He might be a free agent sooner than he thinks...

He’s making $4.65 million this year, I believe, and he’ll head upward from that. Sounds like a non-tender candidate.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Aug 12, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hardy wasn't DFA'd, he was optioned to AAA

Hall was DFA’d because he didn’t have options left and has looked like a homeless Rob Deer for most of this season.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 12, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice post RB

on the whole, I felt it was a good mix of solid talents, plus a few upside arms. I really feel all of the top 5 picks have a 50%+ chance of contributing something at the major league level, and so I feel we got really good value all the way there.

I have a major man-crush on Scott Bittle and I’ll be following his career closely. I really feel that he might just be the sleeper in this year’s draft class and could be a future star reliever if only his shoulder stays attached to his arm. I really think he was a great gamble in the 4th round.

I wasn’t so keen on Stock at first (seemed to me an odd pick, in that it was part-risk, part-safe; they took a risk on a guy with high upside who’d offensively fallen off a cliff, but leveraged that against the fact that he’d probably be a round 4-5 bullpen arm if he was just a pitcher.), he’s growing on me now. Looks like they’re playing the long game with him, and I think that’s fair enough. He’s young enough that we can afford to wait 4 or 5 years to graduate him, and that’ll be just in time for end of Molina’s current contract, too.

Ryan Jackson seems like good Kozma insurance, and should (hopefully) graduate around the time Brendan Ryan will be moving towards free agency. I think his bat is a major question mark and he may never make it, but he’s probably got a >50% shot of being Boog, and that seems like a solid round 5 pick to me.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 13, 2009 6:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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