Twelve Over
by DanUpBaby on Aug 11, 2009 5:04 AM EDT
683 comments
The last time the Cardinals were this far over .500—it's La Russa's favorite unit of measure, so I suppose we ought to be conversant in it—was eleven months ago yesterday, the morning of September 10, 2008. The Cardinals had been floating between ten and fourteen games over since the beginning of August and stood, on that day, at 78-66, which unfortunately for them was eight games back of first. That night they began the seven game losing streak that saw us politely but firmly into a premature Hot Stove season. The Cardinals are better this year than they were last year—better this month than they were last—but the moves the Cubs have made have also been very beneficial.
That's what's interesting to me about watching a team play the games, as opposed to reading about them in hindsight in my parents' basement. (That is a hurtful blogger stereotype, and I apologize. Sometimes I'm in their living room.) In the end, of course, a lot of what [the royal] we remember about a team is tied into their final position in the standings, but the same is true in-season; this team wouldn't feel so exciting, I keep telling myself, if they were eight back.
Because that 2008 squad was—divorced from the standings—actually in pretty good shape heading into the final slumping-over. Jason Motte had come up and was about to do his Eric Gagne routine; Adam Wainwright was three starts back from that infuriating finger injury; Felipe Lopez was exceeding everybody's wildest expectations. Aside from Rick Ankiel, who was so important to the team in the early going, everyone that mattered was doing at least as well as was expected. On a small scale, because of course this is nothing like acquiring Matt Holliday or getting Chris Carpenter back, the team had Come Together like it has now. But there was no room for them.
So it's nice to be twelve over, but it's even nicer to be twelve over when the other guys are seven over, and the other other guys are one under.
The 2007 team—well, they were one over. Is that alright? I've basically put that entire Series Hangover squad out of mind; when FSN was showing their Scott Rolen highlight package (I looked away during the Choi collision) I was surprised to be surprised when they mentioned his .398 slugging percentage that year. I've smoothed it out in my head; he was alright in 2006, with signs of shoulder trouble, and then some vague arguing happened at some point and Troy Glaus was on the team. Jason Isringhausen's brilliant comeback season? Well, he was bad, and then he was really good, and then he was bad again, I don't know. Even Albert was only kind of ridiculous that year.
But they beat the tar out of the Pirates on September 6, went one over, and were apparently within one game of the NL Central lead. Bad Omen: the win went to Kelvin Jimenez, the official allegorical figure of the 2007 St. Louis Cardinals.
But I think it was fair, on the part of the GOB, to taketh away what they had so inexplicably giveth the year before; there's only so many times a team can fall over backwards into the playoffs before it becomes boring. These guys kind of undercut my thesis, because they could have been eleven games ahead of the Cubs and I'd still have been wary of them; if this were a literature paper I would probably just delete their section entirely and push the margins in. The 2007 Cardinals never felt like a great team, except maybe in the days immediately after the Rick Ankiel Experience; that they flirted with 2006: The Sequel before dismantling the MV3 Cardinals once and for all is of no concern to me, now that I don't have to watch it.
The original 2006 was two separate teams, and I've kind of forgotten about the first one, the inexplicable pseudo-juggernauts that found themselves sixteen games over .500 on July 26 despite being markedly worse than the older teams they resembled. The Cardinals won that game while starting Scott Spiezio, John "You'll Only Remember Me If He Types J-Rod" Rodriguez, Aaron Miles, and Gary Bennett, which seems like a fitting image for the team that graced the rest of the regular season with its presence.
Baseball Reference's chart for that day is particularly edifying. On that date the Cardinals had Albert Pujols, Jim Edmonds, Scott Rolen, and Chris Carpenter. They had played exactly 100 games and they were sixteen games over .500. They really shouldn't have been; their Pythagorean record was closer to 52-48. From that day forward they had, if you watched Baseball Tonight, Albert Pujols Is All Alone in That Lineup, Scott Rolen Whose Shoulder Might Just Fall Off Every Day Now, and Is Jim Edmonds Still Playing?, and they underplayed their Pythag, did it so spectacularly that only one team in the National League could claim to do so badly over the rest of the season.
July 2006 was the first month of my long-term plan to completely neglect my old blog, so I can't say much as to my own state of mind except to say that search referrals were much more exotic (and infrequent) when I ran a website whose name was itself What She Said. But I came all this way to say that while it's difficult to be caught in the moment, knowing that so many moments past have been engineered to make fans look foolish, I like the way this team looks. This team likes the way this team looks.
It has to do with a lot of things—it plays good (sometimes brilliant) defense, which means it rarely looks listless; its competitors aren't playing all that well; it's a different team than the one we got tired of midseason—but just because we can name the confounders that make things seem more secure than they are doesn't mean we can't enjoy this for what it is. The Cardinals are 12 games over .500; La Russa is already talking about fifteen, and from fifteen to twenty, and from twenty to 51, undoubtedly, but for today we can enjoy a good team playing as well as it can. It's good to see.
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I need some help here from everyone
I’m a poor college kid so I’m going to go up early to the game tomorrow and get the 11.50 tickets, and I have two little questions. I know the ticket office opens at 9, but what time should I get there to ensure I get those tickets. And I really want to go somewhere to eat that is a St. Louis original and somewhere where I have never been, so are there any off the wall suggestions from people? Thanks I didn’t know where to post this, and I know you guys are teh pro vets at the STLz.
And I would say good post dan, but it is way too hurtful. It was the first painful, look-ahead-to-next-season season of my die-hard Cardinals fandom. Oh the many nights of crying myself to sleep in my mother’s basement.
Get there at 7 or so
And line up on the third base side. You’ll get an envelope with two vouchers to redeem for tickets at the centerfield gate 15 min prior to first pitch. Never gotten a bad seat with the 550 tickets; wish I could do it more.
People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.
as for food
15 is not really that expensive but may be a bit too pricey for a college budget, but I recommend it for any Edmonds fan.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
anybody been there on a friday?
Rumor has it chicks drink free and $20 all you can drink for the dudes….if that’s the case I would like to personally thank jimmy ballgame for blackout nights that are in my immediate future.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Fits over the outside of the, uh, equipment,
rather than inside.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 11, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds much more like my kind of catheter
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yep. The kinder, gentler, catheter.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 11, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
*kinder, gentler catheter
got a little carried away with the commas there.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 11, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
When it comes to catheters
I can’t say I have much brand loyalty.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
went there on Sunday (again)....
got Pappy’s is awesome! Might wanna call ahead though to get a sense of the line/food availability, particularly on weekends.
IMO's Pizza
It’s cheap and within walking distance of Busch. Plus, they have toasted raviolis, a St. Louis Original.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't think there is anything I take more seriously in life than giving food recommendations, so..
as someone else mentioned, Schlafly Tap Room is a good suggestion if you want some local brew w/ your meal
O’Connel’s Pub great Irish pub, just a short drive from the stadium and has fantastic burgers
Best Steakhouse – Also a short drive from the stadium, cafeteria sstyle place w/ really cheap steaks that aren’t half bad
Seamus McDaniel’s out in dogtown, so a little further from the stadium than the rest. But fantastic burgers. You could even take the short drive to a metrolink station and take that down from heree if you wanted to
Gyros House – In the Loop, so not too too far from the stadium. Rinky-dink place with some of the best gyros I’ve ever had. Get the jumbo w/ tzaziki & hummus if you go, its heavenly. Then there are plenty of bars in the loop to walk around to, and you could take metrolink once again.
If you decide on one of these and need more details about the metro or whatever, just post and I’ll fill you in
I will second (third and fourth)
O’Connel’s Pub. Best burgers I’ve eaten again and again.
I will (only) second Seamus’. Also good burgers.
I will add – hop down south a few blocks to Soulard and go to Johnny’s for the Cajun wings, or McGurk’s for anything on the menu.
mcgurks isn't college kid budget friendly
best patio bar in STL though.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
It's not horrible, though...price wise.
You can get good value for your $. It’s not as expensive as others on the list above.
JASON MARQUIS
SAYS WHERES THE BEEF?
sorry moocow had too!
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
why stop there, moo? combine your
Two strongest impulses.
Eat more jason marquis!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 11, 2009 10:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Of course I'm on board with O'Connell's
terrific burgers, not too pricey. McGuirk’s is ok, budget-wise it may be a stretch. If you decide to say “screw it” and go anyway, try the wings. Plus Soulard is not the worst place to be caught after the game if you’ve had a few libations.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah the Gyro House
That is my sanctuary. I am going to be in town for one day on the 17th and I am going to find a way to eat there. Many a time has I had a delicious House Gyro before heading out to a game. They play middle eastern pop music and there are only like five tables packed together, but take a bite, my brothers. Mmm that is some delicious lamb.
by purple_haze on Aug 11, 2009 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I grew up next to the loop but somehow I've never been to Gyro House
I kept forgetting it existed. Could anybody rate their gyros in comparison to Olympia and Coffee Oasis?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Better but messier than Olympia
I’ve never had Coffe Oasis. Ari’s is my favorite gyro in St Louis, though.
Shut up, Fritz™.
Salvato's FTW
domo arrigato, Mr. Salvato.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Where is Salvato's?
There was a place called Salvato’s in the Loop for a while but I thought it left. And it was more of a straight up sandwich place.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Grammar fail
Knew I should have proofread that.
Has = have
Those damn lolcats are getting to me.
by purple_haze on Aug 11, 2009 1:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tucker's Place
Very St. Louis original. Geat filet- mignions for the money. 20 bucks will get you an 8oz filet with salad and huge baked potato. There’s also the house special 12oz filet if you really like your meat. 2117 S 12th St, St Louis, MO is the address. Just a few blocks south of Busch Stadium.
Courtesy Diner!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
And I was playing word association games.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I've been to tuckers a few times.
Twice, there was this pleasant little mouse scurrying around my feet eating food dropped from tables. Both times about half the people just got up and left. They didn’t pay or anything, they just saw the mouse, got up, and left the building.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Oh yeah, and the girls that don't wear underwear working at the bar. That is a very nice thing about Tucker's
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Why have I never heard this before?
I’m already planning my next trip to STL
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 11, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That sounds like a tall tail to me
Lies. All lies. Tucker’s is the best steakhouse for the money. And underwearless female bartenders are a plus!
Hey, it's no skin off my back.
As long as that mouse was in the dining room, then I knew he wasn’t taking a shit in the kitchen.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I haven't been there in close to 10 years
but is Rossino’s still good? Probably more of a place to take a date than go alone though. I’ll have to find an excuse to head down there to wine and dine the wife.
OH! You break my heart!
Man, STLRegalia, Rossino’s was my favorite restaurant in the whole city. It’s where I first courted my now longtime girlfriend. Many, many good nights there. Oh, it was wonderful….
But here’s where the tears start – IT’S GONE! It happened very suddenly about three years ago. No explanation. No relocation. Not even a different restaurant in the same place. Just poof. No more.
Damn it…I was havin’ a pretty alright morning, too….
TED DREWS
Prediction: The Detroit Tigers' biggest obstacle to a championship will be keeping a straight face. The Tigers in three. (OK, make it four.) -USA Today 10/20/06
by TigersInThree on Aug 11, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i still cry myself to sleep every night in me mom's basement
wait,,,,did i just say that out loud?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Lemmon's in South City
that is all.
"Every epoch dreams its successor" - Jules Michelet
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always wanted to stop in there.
Really good, huh?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Another good night from the Cards
Good signs from Lohse. Beat the bad teams silly and play .500 against everyone else. With the Cubs and Astros injured a run of .600/.650 ball might get us a decent lead heading into september.
I’m encouraged. Plus with Carp/Waino/Piniero to go in the playoffs they project well.
Just win
I'm astonished to see
all these posts the past few months, where Pineiro’s name is used in the same breath as Carp and Waino’s. It makes a predicter proud! Only about 4 more wins till my early prediction comes true….btw, how does one go about finding one’s earlier activity than what’s on my profile page?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Aug 11, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
September 2006
A month that will probably stick forever (well slightly behind October of the same year).
It was my first year subscribing to mlb so I could catch every game. I was finishing my basement but always had the computer on in the corner playing the game. Every night I’d go down and work and it seemed every night I would get pissed off listening to them blow a lead.
I guess all that frustration made October that much sweeter. Someone needs to post the Beltran gif again. Brings a tear to my eye…
The question is
how to avoid another September like that? Too many TLR teams have turned into pumpkins in September for me to believe it’s altogether coincidence. T think this year’s team should be more resistant to the problem than the ones in the past three years … but …
by StanTheManFan on Aug 11, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
the schedule is not necessarily bad
Now that I’ve seen this team. But the overabundance of Brewers and the brutal road trips make me leery of the same.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Septembers under LaRussa
Year: September/October record (win %) – overall record (win %)
1996: 17-9 (.654) – 88-74 (.543)
1997: 10-16 (.385) – 73-89 (.451)
1998: 18-7 (.720) – 83-79 (.512)
1999: 11-17 (.393) – 75-86 (.466)
2000: 20-9 (.690) – 95-67 (.586)
2001: 20-8 (.714) – 93-69 (.574)
2002: 21-6 (.778) – 97-64 (.599)
2003: 13-13 (.500) – 85-77 (.525)
2004: 18-13 (.581) – 105-57 (.648)
2005: 15-13 (.536) – 100-62 (.617)
2006: 12-17 (.414) – 83-78 (.516)
2007: 13-18 (.419) – 78-84 (.481)
2008: 12-13 (.480) – 86-76 (.531)
13 year Totals: 200-159 (.557) – 1141-963 (.542)
So, TLR’s Cardinal teams have been (overall) slightly better in September than in the regular season, but the past three years have been especially bad and the past 6 years they’ve been anywhere from slightly worse (2003) to MUCH worse (2006) than their regular season record would indicate.
2006 notwithstanding,
hasn’t a lot of their games been against good division rivals in September? I seem to remember a few years ago, MLB set up schedules so division foes would play each other more in the last games of the year. That could explain a bit of it, since we may have been playing a disproportionate number of games against the Brewers and Cubbies, which have both been pretty good for the last few years.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Double-edged sword
would also mean we have been playing more of the Pirates/Reds who sold at the deadline and are a lot worse in the second half than the first
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
how many of those games
were after they or somebody else clinched the division, leading to september call ups playing a lot?
http://i26.tinypic.com/hrlpgo.jpg
Testicle-exploding shit storm, circa 7/12/08 - We will never forget!
I've never noticed how hard he's pulling down on the ball in this .gif
He really WAS trying to throw his best curveball
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
nice point
should be required watching for young pitchers who don’t follow through all the way with their curves.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 11, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
See, kids,
when you give your best effort, you will succeed.
by cardsgirl95 on Aug 11, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
don't lie to the childern cardsgirl,
they won’t always succeed, but at least they’ll have no regrets because they gave it their best shot
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
we can't all be winners, somebody has to lose, it's the nature of the beast
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
it's like he trying to scratch his own back - from the wrong side
slow motion and still -shot pitching is painful to watch. such contortions make me wonder how pitchers aren’t injured more frequently.
i was at
my gf at the times apartment, watching this, i saw that and immediately went running around her apartment complex screaming were going to the series. (at that moment in my head, i knew the relationship was over) She was never going to see me during the World Series and immediately knew I was nuts
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on Aug 11, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have no clue what you're talking about
But I think I like you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Hah
If she wasn’t running around with you, she ain’t the one.
I decided about 4 days ago that I will never be able to date a girl that isn’t at least interested in baseball.
After she convinced me to leave my house to watch the game in public (sports bar), I asked a girl who has been after me for awhile who the best baseball player is right now. Albert Pujols was in the midst of his 6-6 streak or whatever, and she responded with Barry Bonds. I’ve never had the urge to slap a girl before, but now I know what it feels like and I am only slightly ashamed to be aware of it.
Anyway, I just won’t be able to get along with a girl if she just doesn’t understand the wonder that is baseball.
I'd just like to meet a decent girl that likes baseball.
But they just aren’t around these days.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too...
but my wife says no. :(
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 11, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's all I was going for...
I can be a bit of a laugh-whore.
My wife is actually pretty cool. She likes to go to games, and watched the playoffs with me in ‘06. Unfortunately, she doesn’t have much interetst in regular season games, and for some reason thinks we should “watch something we both like”…whatever that means.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
+1
my wife is the exact same way. She’ll watch playoff games, otherwise she wants us to watch something we “both like.” Other than that, she’s perfect;)
meh. focus on the "decent girl" bit. if she's a decent girl and she likes you, she'll
a) respect you enough to try to interest herself in it; and b) if she doesn’t care for it, she’ll let you have the space to be a baseball freak.
if she’ll go with you to a game and read a magazine while you’re there, so YOU can enjoy the game, that’s a good meeting-halfway thing.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
luckily
my wife is attracted to Pujols, which led her to becoming somewhat interested in the cardinals. (and a lot easier to convince that my home office definitely needed a Pujols fathead)
sage-like advice...
My wife is great, but just doesn’t really get into sports while I am pretty much a sports junkie (she makes fun of me about how she can’t turn on any of our TVs without it being tuned to FSN, MLBN, NFLN, or ESPN).
She definitely gives me the space to indulge my fandom and enjoys anything live, especially if we’re getting all-inclusive seats ;-)
Oh and I forgot to mention
that she’s from the Chicagoland area and her dad is a huge Cubs fan, so it’s kinda like I stole one!
As you all know, I’ve had a lot more to brag about than the father-in-law in recent memory!
And not-so-recent memory
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
And dementia-riddled memory
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 11, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Recs all around
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Aug 11, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Well part of my problem is I get obsessive over things.
Everytime I talk to “normal people” about the Cardinals or Radiohead, my other over-the-top, I get weird looks. I just usually don’t mention me liking baseball as much as I do. I’ve found you have to keep the crazy on the inside.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
okc or kid a?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
better yet
just rank all the albums in order of preference so i can more properly evaluate your worth as a person
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
pssh
plebian
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
alternate ending:
Shut up, Fritz™.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
that's so ridiculous
have you listened to high and dry?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
they have lots of guitar-y songs
bodysnatchers
jigsaw
2+2=5
go to sleep
etc
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
recent guitar-y songs*
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Kid A/mensiac is really the only break.
And even in that there is Optimistic a raging guitar song, by Radiohead standards. HTTT and IR certainly have their guitar moments.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh how I love breaking out the list
1. OKC
2. Kid A
3. Amnesiac
4. HTTT
5. IR
6. The Bends
7. That which shall not be named
It is worth mentioning that 4-6 switch constantly, and 1-3 are cemented in place.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd probably swap okc and kid a
based on which one i’m more burned out on. otherwise perfect list
you should join mortigitempo.com. cool radiohead board with cool people and a modest mlb thread
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
At ease is just so grumpy
But the music forum there is really great. But I’ll check it out.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
be warned
there are an alarming number of cub fans
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
and the music forum there
(mt) used to be so great. it;s what sucked me in. but it’s pretty tame lately
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I'm pretty sure I've been at mt before
It looks familiar. But I hate signing up for new forums because I always spend five minutes looking for something witty that everyone would get, but then I always fail back on something really lame.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
if you just make a welcome thread
they’ll probably think you’re an alias and you’ll get loads of attention
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I love that the same guy from atease
is trying to bring Lift back there too. The fan requests always make me lol.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah that guy?
haha, it was so naive. kinda cute, but can’t go unpunished
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Idk if you're on atease
but some of the member at mt are members over at atease. And there seem to be more posts for each thread over at atease. And now I really regret not just saying oh I like that creep song to see your reaction.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i've got an account or two
but i haven’t posted there for years. i like the people at mt better. and the atease music forum is more indie slanted, whereas mt is more jazz, world, psych, avant-garde, etc. and i prefer the latter
and i would’ve shaken my head and ridiculed you. really if you’re looking to talk about radiohead, mt probably isn’t the place. it’s hardly a radiohead board anymore. the regulars only post in the rh topics to make fun of the noobs, or grters
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I'll check out the music forum then.
I rely too much on atease for music suggestions. And half of the music posters are P4k approved and the other half are hipster bashers. It can get old but there is a lot of good conversation that goes on there. The Radiohead sub-forums can be teh lolz a lot of times though.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
what is this mt you speak of?
sounds like I need to get on over there… probably atease too, I’m into tons of different stuff
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
mortigitempo.com
i’m a pretty prominent member, so i’ll have you guys’ backs if you join
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i think so
and the dude was a huge douche, made fun of some girl because she had cancer and got run off the board
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
that sounds like this bbs I used to go to
for mr. bungle, there were some huge flamewars there, and one guy said the same thing to a girl there, dude was a c*$%smoker
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
that kind of drama is pretty rare
and those are the few times the whole board will band together to eliminate
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
anyways, I'll join up over there
and try to figure out who you are, most likely tonight
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
the name i use most
is prophet john
i have a colby av. should be easy to spot
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Ok I joined an introduced myself
I tried to mess with them, but I don’t know if it will work.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
nobody will get the colby jokes, but if you’re lucky one of the cub fans will see your avatar
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
probably the best radiohead song ever
imo
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That is one place I don't even try to touch
Along with favorite album ever, best Beatles song/album, and worst Nickelback song.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Weird, I didn't know that Radiohead recorded an album called
Dan Haren whoa, that’s weird, I suddenly forgot what I was going to type there.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Favorite albums of the decade
With the year half over and the aughts nearly finished I’ve given a lot of thought to my favorite albums of the decade. Kid A is probably in my top 5.
As of this moment, I’d go with
1. LCD Soundsystem – Sound of Silver
2. Joanna Newsom – Milk-eyed Mender
3. Interpol – Turn on the Bright Lights
4. Radiohead – Kid A
5. The Strokes – Is this It?
6. Junior Boys – Last Exit
7. Animal Collective – Strawberry Jam
8. Sufjan Stevens – Illinoise
9. Wolf Parade – Apologies to the Queen Mary
10. Electric Wizard – Dopethrone
Personal Radiohead Rankings:
1. OCK
1. Kid A (How to Disappear Completely or: Mark Prior)
They are essentially interchangeable to me, but lately I’ve been on a Tourist/Subterranean Homesick Alien Kick. Both two of my favorite albums of all-time.
^
^
3. IR
4. The Bends
^
5. HTTT
6. Amnesiac
^10×50
7. PabLOL Honey
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Aug 11, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It would take me at leat 5 days of reflection to properly respond to this comment.
My initial impression is that “Apologies to the Queen Mary” should be higher and “White Blood Cells” should be on there somewhere. I will get back to you with further thoughts and, perhaps, a list.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'll show my support
for your choice of Interpol’s “Turn on the Bright Lights”. I can listen to at least one track from that album no matter what mood I’m in.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't care what my elitist friends say
that’s a great album
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I'm in agreement with both of you.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hey, i like mainly industrial/synth music
and consider that a great album. those who basically regurgitate what they read in magnet magazine will just have to learn to accept it.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Surprised at the lack of Bends love
is it trendy to trash it now or something? Remains one of 3 or 4 favourite albums of all time.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I still really like it
To me though, it just doesn’t compare to top tier Radiohead ie Kid A/OKC, which isn’t exactly a diss.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Aug 11, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
it's a good album
it just doesn’t compare to most of their other work
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Saying it isn't up to OKC and Kid A/mensiac quality
isn’t an insult to me. It is still amazing.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
it’s like an 8.5
street spirit is so cash
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
OK Computer
is their best and one of the best ever.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
You love Lionel Richie?
I love Lionel Richie, too!!! That is so cool!!!
Not really, just going for a laugh, people.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
"Hello" is my ringback tone
so I make whomever calls me listen to it.
(unless it’s my wife. she hears Waiting for a girl like you)
Karaoke / Open Mic
That’s not to say that I couldn’t sing the shit out of it if I had to (as part of a bet or a weird “My song sucks worse than yours” competition).
I think that song was part of our winter concert back in 5th grade or something. I can’t believe I can remember crap like that.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
how can you not like Lionel Richie??
oh yeah…this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0mk_J0zyc
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
true, true
I lucked out. My wife, when we met, was not a big sports fan at all. Now, after 9 years of knowing her and 3 years of marriage, she goes out of her way to ask detailed questions and get to know the games that I love all the more. It’s fantastic.
Some can be converted
My wife loves the Cardinals now thanks to me. She is from the Northwest, and her family are all Mariners fans. But she herself wasn’t really a baseball freak or anything.
She was a pretty serious soccer player growing up, so maybe the fact that she was already into sports helped. Anyway, don’t lose hope. Even if a girl isn’t into baseball to start with you can groom that interest with the right girl.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The girl doesn't have to like baseball
Just accept that I am in love with it
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta mention this
My wife isn’t into baseball, but she does pay attention.
I was watching a Reds/Cubs game . Rolen comes up. She says “hey, isn’t that Mr. Rolen? The Cardinals player you liked?”
“Honey, you’re OK in my book!”
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to smack a bitch?!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I'm pretty lucky
my wife is a huge Cards fan also. Game time is a huge deal at our house, and we’ve even rescheduled dinner and the kids’ bath time depending on the start time of the game. You know you’re a Cards family when you’re at the zoo and your 2 year old son sees a drawing of a cardinal, points wildly and says “Daddy! Baseball!”
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 11, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
d'aww
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
God
I could watch this forever
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Aug 11, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Love the
Gibby-like falling of the mound. One of the best moments I have ever seen.
by rockin the red on Aug 11, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I had the exact same thought, watching that over and over again,
all I could think of was Gibson with his left arm flung waaaaay out to the side, right leg flung out the other way, and then…..all I could think of was ‘68, and the ball hit back up the middle…..can’t say anymore, where’s some wood, where’s some wood!?!?!?!?!?!?!!????!!!
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Aug 11, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
To quote, well, me...
My name is A.D.A.M. I just became self-aware. I think I was sent to destroy all in my path. The earth will rue the day they doubted my mustache.
Postscript-he did not have The Stache back then…it was more of a playoff beard. Still.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
oh man
I might get to grow a playoff beard again! I might have to put the site back online.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
That would be fine.
Playoff beards dovetail nicely with my deer season beard anyway.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
On to tonight
If Mitchell pitches well over these two starts does he keep the spot? Is it safe to assume TLR gives is right back to Welley after a quick DL stint?
In my mind,
the Colonel DL stint is the beginning of the end for him. I don’t think that we see Welley in much other than the WonderRole.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Pythagorean record
This has to be the most useless new stat in baseball. Games are played for the purpose of winning or losing them. Some are won on bloop singles, and some are lost on bad hops. Some nights you win by 7 because the other team uses Aaron Miles to pitch the last two innings. 160+ games are played to even this out. Any statistic that shows what you should have won or lost is meaningless. A teams record speaks for itself.
by Remember Kenny B on Aug 11, 2009 9:07 AM EDT reply actions
Yes, like in 2006.
There was no reason to think the Cardinals were not a 16-wins-over-.500 club and no reason to suspect that they wouldn’t finish 25 games over. None whatsoever. Their record spoke for itself.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It sure has hell hasn't proven to be a good indicator of records
As show by a mere 7 game deviation from actual W/L since TLR’s reign
Oh wait
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Most of what you say is true...
but when pythag records correlate so high with the actual records of teams over a significant sample size (say 10 years), and they DO, it’s not a meaningless statistic.
Think about it. How many winning teams do you ever see that have more runs scored on them than they are able to score? Even teams with two awesome starters, one average starter, and two horrible starters, and an average-ish offense (think 2009 SF Giants or 2006 Cardinals) score more than they give up over the course of a season. You would agree with this right?
If so, then it’s a simple step to figure out exactly what the differential in runs scored vs. runs against is in terms of won-loss record.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Why use 10 years?
Using long term data in this case is meaningless. The Cardinal team in the last half of 06 was not the same team as the first half. They did not regress to a statistical number, they put different players on the field.
Combining more than one year in the age of free agency is silly. If you put a different team on the field, they will have a different record.
Is it supposed to be a predictor? Pythag data did not predict the downturn in 2006. It would have if we had put the same team on the field.
by Remember Kenny B on Aug 11, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
You are completely missing the point.
Pythag is used as a gauge to see how lucky/unlucky teams have been with their run distribution. Why don’t you read up on it before making baseless claims about its utility? Minds far greater than ours have dedicated years of study to it and its relation to actual records.
The pythag that is usually quoted is the quick and dirty method. Pay attention to the theoretical explanation and links I provided above, and you will see that there are even further, more useful iterations of the analysis.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
It all depends on what you want to use it for....
Let’s say you’re a GM at the all-star break and your team is in the pennant race. If your pythag (among other tools) indicates that you’re “better” than your record, perhaps you don’t need to make a deal to compete. Conversely, if you’re really “lucky” by pythag and your record is better than it “should” be, you know you need to make a deal. Likewise, a pythag could show that it really is time to sell even if your record is better than your pythag, because your team isn’t going to make up ground as currently constructed.
Season to season, pythag could be helpful in showing that you do not have to rebuild, even after a bad record the prior season, because the team is “better” than that record and will likely be better the next season.
As well, there are many other uses. You seem to want to use it for something it wasn’t designed for. That’s fine, but it’s no surprise that you think a hammer is useless for changing a tire.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 11, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
if the Astros had paid some attention to their uber-lucky pythag over the first half of this season (which they may’ve done), they’d have known they were really lucky to be in the pennant race and would’ve more or less anticipated that they’d be 7 games back (or something) by now, and probably more by the end of the year, thus enabling them to not blow any more of their threadbare minor league system on short-term acquisitions that probably wouldn’t turn them into a contender anyhow.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
that might be a bad example, because if they didn’t have injuries to both Oswalt and Fat Elvis they may not be so crippled right now.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
OR
they may be a good example, because they suck balls.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly!
The Mariners made this mistake when they traded for Bedard. Judging by their record they were “just a piece away” so they gave up tons to get a front line starter. Then they broke 100 losses.
15=/=25
I think that could well go down as *perhaps* the worst trade of the last decade.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You've missed the point...
Using long term data in this case is meaningless.
You said it was a meaningless statistic, I simply said that the correlation with W/L records over a 10 year period is pretty solid, indicating that it is not a “worthless” statistic by any means.
Is it supposed to be a predictor?
No, it’s meant to tell you how well a team has performed up to a certain point in time, so that you can make a hypothesis about how good your team might be going forward. If you’re 10 games over .500, but your Pythag has you 2 games under .500, it’s more than likely that you’ve been lucky to that point in the season and that your team isn’t as good as your record states it to be. The inverse is also true. You could be much worse than your Pythag, which means your team has been unlucky and should have a better record than it does. Do you not think that luck factors into the game of baseball?
Your “Aaron Miles pitching” hypothesis is utter bullshit — it happens maybe two or three times a year, if that, and it’s always in games that are already blowouts, so it’s not going to affect your Pythag to any great extent. It seems to me that you’re attempting to use the stat for a purpose for which it is not intended, which is why you think it’s a worthless statistic.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Thanks for the attack
What is this statistic supposed to be used for? I read the site and it is supposed to factor in luck. But it doesn’t account for bad hops, bad calls, or drives that fall 1 ft short of the fence. I say the luck balances out. It also says, “In addition, the formula tends to regress toward the mean”. So what’s the point?
How is the Pythag supposed to be used? If it is not to predict or to explain, I don’t get it. You seem to think it is to take a deeper look at past performance. Maybe a tool for the general manager, but not a good one.
Like many team statistics, it ignores team chemistry, which may be less important in baseball than some other sports, but it is still a factor that can’t be calculated. Or does it reveal team chemistry instead of luck?
by Remember Kenny B on Aug 11, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
I read the site and it is supposed to factor in luck. But it doesn’t account for bad hops, bad calls, or drives that fall 1 ft short of the fence.
You wouldn’t describe those events as bad luck?
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll put this as simply as possible for you
1) Pythagorean W/L has a HUGE correlation with actual w/l. In the link I posted earlier, through 2200+ games, there is only a 7 game deviation between the two.
2) Since it has this correlation, if you have outperformed or underperformed your Pythagorean W/L, chances are your your team’s actual W/L will regress to their level of play, which is what Pythagorean W/L quantifies
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Ok, don't really know where to start...has NOTHING to do with team chemistry.
Lets take a hypothetical. Lets say the Cardinals score 9 runs one game and give up 5. They win, 9-5. But does that mean they outscored the opponent in every inning? Of course not. Can we predict how many innings they would typically win if the final score was 9-5? Sure – with pythag. Running it through the basic formula, we get .764. So, based on pythag, we would expect to win 76.4% of the innings if the final was 9-5 (pretend no innings could tie). Any number of innings won that is greater than 76.4% of them played would be “lucky”, any less than that would be “unlucky”
Now, instead of a single game and predicting inning wins, use that same methodology over a whole season’s worth of runs data and game wins and losses.
Pythag has nothing to do with “luck” in terms of bad hops, barely missed HRs, whatever other example you gave. It is about RUN DISTRIBUTION – how a team has performed relative to how it could have been expected to perform given the amount of runs that it allowed and scored.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I'm not going to bother responding...
you and mysterui have covered all the relevant points here. I feel like this poster is a “statistics cynic” and thus isn’t going to understand any explanation that we put out there.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 11, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are wrong about that
I appreciate a lot of the new statistics, and enjoy learning about them. I was the first one in my class that understood ERA.
Here is the challenge:
Please look at everyone’s Pythag data, and tell me who will improve and who will decline in the rest of the season. Please do not use the Astros because of injuries. Everyone can predict that there numbers will go down since they lost two of the better players in the league. Also, do not use teams such as the Cards since their first half number is not relevant to their current team makeup. Oh wait, does that also apply to most of the other teams? Anyway, if the data makes a good prediction, I can become a believer.
by Remember Kenny B on Aug 11, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
How old are you that you were the first in your class to understand ERA? Haha
We’re not saying to use Pythag and only Pythag, or that it’s even that predictive. But it’s definitely not meaningless, which you originally stated
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'm 64
And I calculated my first batting average with a Big Chief tablet and a Number 2 pencil.
by Remember Kenny B on Aug 11, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The Marlins will fade and the Braves will finish 2nd in the NL East.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The Braves have underperformed their pythag for the last 5 years running
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Pythag
is not a predictive statistic, as someone above noted. It’s meant to tell you where the teams are relative to how well they’ve played. Like ERA — the statistic you understand as well as anyone — it’s a measure of what HAS happened, not what will happen. If Pineiro’s ERA is 2.91, does that mean he’s going to pitch at a 2.91 clip the rest of the season? Absolutely not. Same w/ pythag. Is it perfect? It certainly is not but neither is ERA. ERA doesn’t account for park factors, defense and (dare I say it…) luck!
Pythag is a good, if imperfect, indicator of how well a team has played. Past tense. Some teams do outperform their pythagorean record just as others underperform it. There is lots of speculation as to why teams outperform or underperform their pythagorean record but one such reason is luck. There are lots of reasons why pitchers pitch better or worse than their actual ERAs. One reason is luck.
Wait
- I never said it was predictive
So why in the hell would I try and predict things by using it?
- I didn’t use the Astros, sir, someone else did, and I pointed out that they may have been subdued by injuries, but that doesn’t mean they’re record wasn’t an overperforming factor in their first half, does it?
- Again, the data isn’t intended to make a prediction, it’s intended to give you an idea how lucky/unlucky you’ve been over the course of a given number of games.
Now, given that context, why would I accept a challenge to use a statistic outside of it’s frame of relevance, which I’ve pointed out three times in three different posts?
You’re essentially asking me to use a tire iron to cut your hair. I could give it a shot, but you may not like the results.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Let's try this another way:
Can the pythag set to a leg? No: Or an arm? No: Or lower the time spent on the DL? No. The pythag hath no skill in Tommy-John then? No. What is the pythag? A series of numbers. And what is in those numbers? Bits. A trim reckoning! Who hath it? He that managed o’ Wednesday. Doth he feel it? No. Doth it play into his small-sample-size based matchup decisions? No. ‘Tis insensible then? Yea, to the players and managers. But will it not live with the fans and broadcasters? No. Why? Joe Morgan will not suffer it. Therefore, I’ll none of it. The pythag is a mere scutcheon- and so ends my catechism.
15=/=25
by hazel on Aug 11, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
And what a catechism it was.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Just eyeballing it, how many fewer games do you think we would've won
If we didn’t make the Matt Holliday trade?
I know that baseball incidents aren’t isolated, but I would venture a guess and say about 3 games fewer? Does that sound right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
He carried us
nearly that whole first week he was here, and we still lost 3 games to the Phillies and Dodgers. I would say two games, but that’s a WAG on my part.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Well, I have been keeping track of pitchers' and batters' WPA by game
Not exactly what you are looking for, but definitely insightful…
You can really see how the pitching staff/defense has carried us, but things are trending up for the batters since Holliday arrived.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 11, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Interesting
Our lineup is making our pitchers pitch better. Is this some sort of bizarro protection?
Not a projection (but I could combine the lines into one)
The red line is on a pretty consistent upward trend the entire year – the pitchers didn’t just suddenly turn awesome. This graph just breaks out contribution to team record by batters and pitchers (pitchers get credit for defense). Clearly evident is the fact that the pitching staff has carried us most of the year. If the recent trend of batters and pitchers both showing up continues, we are in for a fun fall.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
what exactly do you mean by
we are in for a fun fall
?
are you referring to seasonal change or an impending ledge?
haha
I should have said glorious Autumn.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
So what's that big jump around 5/23
for the pitching?
We had an awesome 5 game stretch for our starters
Where they all went like 7+ innings with <2 ER or something like that. That might be it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Remember that streak where our starters went nuts?
Here we go: from May 18-27, we gave up 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 3, 1, 1, 2 runs. 9 runs in 9 games. awesome.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Couldn't the pitching curve going up at the time of offensive suckage
just mean that the team was more dependent on pitching/defense for winning? I could be misunderstanding something about how WPA works, but if the offense gets worse, the team is necessarily relying more on defense and pitching to win, so wouldn’t the pitching curve probably rise as a result, even if they continued the same kind of production?
Again, I could be WPA-failing pretty hard here, so apologies of that’s the case.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Well, yes and no -
They are relying on pitching/defense to win, sure, but the pitching/defense still has to actually perform well enough to win. Remember WPA is context leveraged, so the graph shows exactly what contributed to the Cardinals wins.
In other words, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the offense sucked, just that the pitchers/defense contributed far and away more to the success.
Sorry, its hard to articulate my point here. WPA kinda sucks on its own (errors, for one, really mess with it), but its the only context considerate way I know of to guage win contribution.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I think I understand what you're saying
I think so anyway. And I’m not sure how good a job I did in trying to get my question across. But yeah, WPA is really cool but it also seems really prone to misuse so sometimes I am unduly skeptical of its use from the get-go.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'll join the rec parade
great stuff. there’s a tendency of statheads in baseball to debate and compare stats that have little or no material differences. this, obviously, is an exception.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You think Holliday's been worth
3 wins in 2 1/2 weeks? No way!
Fangraphs has him at 1.1 w/ the Cards. Sounds about right to me, though I’m a little concerned about positional adjustments for LF vs. RF. Maybe a little high then.
I'm not saying WAR
I’m just saying, how many games we would have lost if we had Chris Duncan in left rather than Matt Holliday
A non-statistical approach, if you will
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
More
F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday
by vivaelpujols on Aug 11, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I fully submit that his "value"
in terms of WAR is not that high, but I would also say that there are at least 2-3 games in the last two weeks that we probably don’t win without his bat in the lineup, especially with Albert struggling. Ludwick’s resurgence has helped and so has DeRosa’s addition of power at the 3B position, but Holliday has been awfully good since he’s been here.
That said, 1.1 WAR in around 2 weeks worth of games is a pretty damn sick number, is it not?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Off topic but
what would be the value in WAR of a perfect game?
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha
Cubbies Nation sponsors the 2004 Cards B-R page
I’m not going to say what i think about our team, because i don’t want to jink it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
yeah, they had a fanpost about it
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
lets sponser a page where they got to the world series
since me or my parents were born…oh wait….well at least when my grandpa was 7.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
request
I’m gonna be at the game tonight… could someone post on the on-going mix tape saga, and like, if Boog reveals that the sunflower seeds are part of some secret Matt Holliday cult?
Thanks.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I expect you to pull a Prince....
get down there and demand to be let into that clubhouse, and get the story. We’ll call it VEB’s Behind the music.
Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"
sadly I'll be there with family
Reds fans. Hence the odd choice of game.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 11, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
You mentioned Cubs, so let's have an update
Zambrano on DL with back issues.
Lilly on DL with “knee issues”
Gorzelanny, the acquisition from the Pirates, went down last night after either getting hit in the foot with a line drive or diving after a ball and twisting his ankle.
Ramirez sat out; the Cubs are admitting he may not be right all of next year (we knew this from experience of course).
Their bullpen has pitched 2 games in the last few days. They’re thin and heading to the Phillies.
This is the time for us to make a run.
And they're making errors
Like a team full of Duncans
by olddomination on Aug 11, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
"There's no art....
To find the glove’s construction in the face:
He was an outfielder on whom we built
An absolute trust."
I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O
The Elder Duncan Speaks:
“My plenteous joys,
Wanton in fulness, seek to hide themselves
In drops of sorrow. Sons, kinsmen, thanes,
And you whose places are the nearest, know
We will establish our estate upon
Our eldest, Chris, whom we name hereafter
The Prince of Jackadongyland; which honour must
Not unaccompanied invest him only,
But signs of nobleness, like stars, shall shine
On all deservers. From hence to Boston,
And bind us further to you.”
I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O
Now thou hast it all:
DeRosa, Lugo, Holliday, as the weird women promised, and I fear that didst play most foully for it.
by Youneverknow on Aug 11, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Weird sisters = Baseball Annies
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Blood will have blood. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
And we play 2 more with the Reds
and then get the Padres for 3 this weekend, ALL AT HOME. We’re 3 games up now, and should have a shot at pushing it to 5 or 6 over this week. I would be nice to be in the same position the Cubs were last year in the middle of August, wouldn’t it?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
It would be ideal.
And while the Cubs are slogging through playoff-caliber clubs, now is the time to put some distance between us and the pack, a la the ’08 Cubs. However, we should not follow their October precedent.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Horrible time for the Cubs to be "slogging through playoff-caliber clubs"
They have a weak defense (looking at you Alfonso!) and compromised offense (Soto and Bradley stinking and ARam being hurt) AND their two best pitchers are out for the time being. The Cards HAVE to take care of business now against the dregs of the NL Central.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree 100%
We need to give ourselves some breathing room this week, given our schedule.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Pedro is starting one of the games against the Cubs
Ruh roh
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I foresee
Five innings, two runs, three Ks for Pedro.
And a Phillies win.
by Michael_68_1999 on Aug 11, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
I’m just not sure what ot make of Pedro. He could kick butt or he could spontaneously combust.
I think he will most likely suck.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't bet against him.
Dude has one of the best pitching resumes in the history of the game. His peak years (‘97-’03) were probably the best ever. While he’s certainly well past his prime, I think he will still have something left in the tank at age 37- especially considering he is well rested and fully healthy (well, as healthy as he can be) for the first time in a number of years.
by southsidepat on Aug 11, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Cub upcoming schedule
is a mixed bag. Three at home with the two Pennsylvania clubs (so… 3-3?), then back on the road (where they, the Cubs, have stunk it up this year) for three at SD then four with LA. They end the month at home with the Mets sandwiched between the Nats and Astros. So, overall, not that much tougher than the Cards schedule opponent-wise (mainly, the difference is the Phillies instead of our series with the Reds, an admittedly significant difference), but due to their current pitching problems, AmRam’s health, and the two series coming up right away with the Phils and Dodgers, we should, and need to, pick up a couple or three more games on them.
Overall, the Cubs have 29 home, 23 road games left (if I counted correctly) which tends to make one worry as good as they have played at home this season. (Cards have 26 home/22 road games left)
by ArkansasTravs on Aug 11, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I was focused on the week.
We realistically could go 5-1 vs. Cincy and SD at home and the Cubs could go 1-5 or 2-4 against Colorado and Philly.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm looking at the short term of a week here...
If we’re able to sit at the top of the division with a 5-6 game lead next Monday, it will be much, much tougher for anyone to catch us with only around 40 games left on the schedule or so.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
How many long. long losing streaks
Did that 2006 team have?
I remember some massive destructions at the hands of the AL
If memory serves me
there were three streaks that lasted 7 games or longer, which is the first time a La Russa managed club had any losing streaks of that length ever, and they did it three different times.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
It was two 8-game losing streaks and a 7-game one, right?
2006 was such an emotional rollercoaster, baseball-wise. And I know that is a very cliched term to use, but I think it fits pretty well.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
amen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHZ-TnxcDN4
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
another unusual happening last night
Troy Tulowiski (spelling?) hit for the cycle against Cubs last night. He also had a grand slam that was reversed after review and ruled foul. He then promptly hit a double for two runs.
Had the home run not been ruled foul, he would not have hit for the cycle but would have had 5 hits and 2 HR’s.
Apparently he's one of 3 players to have hit for the cycle and turn an unassisted triple play in a career
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
The Rockies should trade us Tulo
for Welley, Stav, and Kozma. That’s fair, right? I mean, he wasn’t awesome in 2008 so he probably sucks.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
We already have the most awesome SS ever
The boog man is not impressed.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 11, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Boooooog
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 11, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Quick wikipedia cross-ref gives John Valentin from the Red Sox...not sure about the last one
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
George Burns, '23
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 11, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Sweet. Just saw another good trivia question -
Name the 3 franchises that have never had someone hit for the cycle
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
"Say Good Night, Gracie."
Oh… wrong George Burns!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 11, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
after the grand slam
he hit a single that plated two (advanced to second on the throw home).
He hit a single in his 5th at bat as well, so if he hit a grand slam, his cycle would have held up.
Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
Hmmmm!
I watched the last of game after the Card’s game was over and the Colorado announcers said that the double came after the foul HR and he wouldn’t have had the cycle. You might be right but if you are he had to have 6 at bats.
I should add a disclaimer
I’m basing my info on BBTN, so there is a high probability that it’s wrong…
Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
It was a single
the double came in a later at bat in the game.
He hit a HR, singled, doubled, tripled, singled
yep just confirmed
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/COL/COL200908100.shtml
Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
Yeah the box score says you are right
but what is confusing to me is that before the last single, which I saw’ the announcers were already saying it had hit for cycle or so I understood. I must have misunderstood. I thought the last single was just an added single.
the last single WAS just an added single
1st AB: HR
2nd AB: Foul boul Grandslam, ended up hitting a single
3rd AB: Double
4th AB: Triple
5th AB: Single (after he had already completed the cycle)
So when they talk about
a “natural cycle” do they mean 1B-2B-3B-HR in that order, or could it go HR-3B-2B-1B too?
And didn’t John Mabry hit a natural cycle for the Cardinals one time?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 11, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The first one.
I guess the second one would be the unnatural cycle.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Maybe the anti-natural cycle?
Or the dark natural cycle? Like dark matter. Scientists don’t actually have proof of it but it better be there or else they have to come up with a new theory.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i wonder if a bunch of guys that live together and do steroids
Eventually have their cycles sync up
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a chance for the natural
in his last AB….would have been pretty neat.
Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"
The triple he hit was complete bullshit too
Soriano just lazily roamed over, STILL misplayed it, and the 3B missed the throw while Tulo was still like 5 steps away. Should have been a double and an error.
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Soriano "lazily roamed" after a ball?
No way!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, really
We must not be talking about the same Soriano. The one I know of always sprints after the ball and is a fundamentally strong outfielder.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
not to nit-pick
but it was a single after the homerun was reversed, and he had another one of those in the 8th.
(I was going back and forth in order to send updated “haha” texts)
The home run wasn't reversed
It was called foul. Tracy argued. Umps reviewed. Confirmed foul.
The ball was impossible to see. I couldn’t see it on slow mo replay until it got in front of a brick building across the street.
Fun homerun reversal story. Angels game - forget who they were playing. Anyway Angels' opponent
hits one down the left field line and the third base umpire calls it foul. Home plate umpire reverses the call and declares a homerun. Angels’ manager, Dick Williams, catapults on to the field, goes wild and is tossed. Angels pitcher run, too. Next Nolan Ryan comes in as relief pitcher. First pitch the catcher ducks and home plate umpire takes one in the mask and is knocked silly. When he recovers tosses Ryan and the catcher.
You had to be there. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
OT - Draft picks (specifically Shelby Miller)
We’re less than a week away from the signing deadline for underclassmen and prep draft picks, does anyone know who has yet to sign? I know Miller hasn’t, but is there anybody else? Does anyone know what the signing bonus for Miller is reported to be?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i wonder
if he doesnt sign with the nats if the Cards take a flyer on him in the next draft
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
Wishful thinking.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
fire up the van
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 11, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
We won't ever get the chance
someone else will take him in the top 2 or 3 picks again.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
He's a fascist.
Our pitchers follow a more democratic method.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Now, now...
…no schadenfreude for the poor Nats, please! ;-)
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 11, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
aren't they on fire?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 11, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
8 in a row
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Trying to give the Royals a chance to complete for that first pick
Pretty charitable of them.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Since their 18-11 start
The Royals have been the worst team in baseball. They’ve been like 4 games worse than the Nats too, so it’s not like it’s been close. The Royals do have Zach Greinke, who is having a historically great season that may push him over 10 WAR AS A DAMN PITCHER, and yet they are still an abominable team. His record is a mere 11-7, while he consistently dominates his opponent. Goes to show the uselessness of W/L.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
In other words
We should pray to heavens that the Nats sign Strasburg so that KC can’t draft him next year? A Strasburg/Greinke combo in a rotation would be ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as Albert Pujols.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Strasburg/Greinke/Crow
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Horrifying
Especially when Strasburg tells everyone he’s just been messing with them and starts using his ACTUAL dominant arm, his left. He actually throws 112 lefty. Or something…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That might finally be enough to convince Albert to start pitching lefty too.
That’s right, Albert is actually the best left-handed pitcher in the world. He plays first base everyday because otherwise it’d just not be fair.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yeah, BUT...
they still have “interim” tags on their GM and manager; and it’s the same roster that has (ahem) performed poorly so far this season.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 11, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Baseball America Draft Database
BBA has it broken down by round or by team. It is a pretty handy tool.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/2009draftdb.php
BTW, the talk is that Miller is looking somewhere in the $3.5 – 4 mil range. There are a lot of guys who have yet to sign, so I suspect there will be a ton of activity on this front in the next few days.
by southsidepat on Aug 11, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not worried,
I was just wondering where we’re at, and RB hasn’t done a draft round-up in a while with all the flurry around the team’s deadline deals and such. Maybe he’ll have one up tomorrow…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
miller was always going to come down to the deadline.
not saying we should or shouldn’t be worried, just that there’s not much more reason to today than there was a month ago.
Agreed
The majority of the top picks are taking the wait-and-see approach. Miller’s situation is not unusual. Currently there are 19 out of 32 1RDP’s that are still unsigned. In the end, I’d expect that all but 1 or 2 are signed by the deadline.
by southsidepat on Aug 11, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
OT: LOL Ricciardi
Discuss
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Aug 11, 2009 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Gave away Alex Rios for nothing?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
And I mean literally nothing
No B-level prospects, no C-level prospects
Nothing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Apparently he's new-NEW age GM
- Draft great young player.
- Sign great young player to a ridiculous contract after he has one good season
- Give away player for nothing before he becomes expensive.
Is the economy killing the Jays that bad?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
His recent moves just don't make sense
He talks about being in win-now mode by keeping Halladay for a run next year, but gets rid of one of the best position players who had a below market value contract in 2010.
There is some chatter about them using the money to extend Halladay, but can the Jays really afford $20-$25m per for one player with that Wells albatross already on the books?
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
They have a bunch of strong pitching in their system
why would they extend Halladay on an albatross contract when they could have traded him for good position playing and pitching prospects and start over?
Congrats to Ricciardi though, instead of being known as “the guy who hates Adam Dunn” he’ll now be known as the “idiot GM who gives away talented players for free”.
This is why I’m glad that the Cardinals front office and ownership has been so good at negotiating with our own free agents and not offering them ridiculous money for no reason.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
we'll see...
This is why I’m glad that the Cardinals front office and ownership has been so good at negotiating with our own free agents and not offering them ridiculous money for no reason.
Maybe you have a different opinion of the Lohse negotiations than I do. Could be worse, but I’d say they offered a ridiculous amount of money for no reason.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 11, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not talking about Lohse
more about Molina, Waino, and Albert. None of those guys have complete albatross contracts and both Yadi’s and Adam’s are very club friendly.
I don’t think the Lohse contract was a good one.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
really
for what we’re getting, albert’s contract is very club friendly. probably the bes tin baseball. it could only be better by being longer
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Fangraphs recently broke it down, and they rated
Alberts contract the #4 most valuable, behind the (ridiculous) Longoria deal, Hanley, and Justin Upton
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
yeah
forgot about hanley’s contract. it’s ridiculous
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
?
Alberts contract the #4 most valuable, behind the (ridiculous) Longoria deal, Hanley, and Justin Upton
i'm saying
which is ridiculous
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I agree.
And I never thought I’d feel that a baseball player contract “could only be better by being longer.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Huh??
You specifically said our own free agents…none of the three you mentioned have ever been free agents.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I can't help but feel that maybe, instead of giving away a ton of talent for a couple of months of Holliday
and then signing him to a big contract, we might’ve been better just giving them Shane Petersen or something for Rios.
I’m still convinced that Rios is gonna turn out good, and that he’s signed to a pretty team-friendly deal. He only needs to be a 2-win player (or so) going forward for it to be worth the moolah. He could play RF for us, Colby in CF, Ludwick in left. Best defensive OF in baseball.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Rios wouldn't have fallen to us.
We’re something like 5th from last in line among all teams for AL waived players.
15=/=25
no, but FM's idea about throwing a semi-prospect like peterson might
have been a valid idea.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Didn't we trade him to the A's?
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yes - FM was saying we should have offered him for rios instead of
holliday.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Gotcha
Note to self: read whole thread before commenting
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno if I necessarily think we SHOULD
but if they were basically giving Rios away, I can’t help but feel I’d have liked him on our team going forward AND to still have Wallace (plus some extra $ versus what Holliday will cost).
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
They have a serious attendance problem in Toronto.
The Rolen and Rios salary dumps (and the B.J. Ryan DFA) make me wonder how much longer Ricciardi will be around.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Riccardi is GM not President
Attendance is not in his control
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The product on the field has a correlation to attendance.
When clubs win, fans come out to the ol’ ballyard. When clubs lose, fans stay at home. The roster is in his control. The players on said roster are not winning, which is causing a downturn in attendance and, I assume, revenues. Thus, I wouldn’t be surprised if Toronto fires him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Blue Jays GM confirms there never was a Halladay
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/blue_jays_gm_confirms_there_never
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 12, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it was a horrible move
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
For nothing in return?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yeah
Rios at best will equal the value of the contract in terms of value
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot can happen in 5 years
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
You raise a compelling argument
I hadn’t thought of that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
If you judge him solely on 2009, maybe
Getting rid of him now is the epitome of selling low. You also have to consider his previous seasons – he was/is a really good outfielder and if he regresses to his mean, he has nowhere to go but up and will certainly be very valuable.
Also have to factor in the value of 1 WAR on the FA market. Given that last year was ridiculously cheap, Rios will be extremely inexpensive relative to FA alternatives in the future.
Throw in the fact that a guy like Peavy is commanding Dexter Carter, Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, and Adam Russell, and letting him go for free was silly.
TURN THOSE MACHINES BACK ON, MORTIMER!!!!!!!
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
you guys sometimes seem to forget
Prospects don’t pay the bills. It is not like you can go to the bank and cash a check for a prospect worth X amount of money. Sometimes a club needs actual money more than potential prospects. If I remember correctly Toronto’s attendance is way down this year.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Here are the main points
1) Alex Rios was a 5.5 WAR player last year, worth $24.6 million
2) His contract is 5 more years, $60 million
3) This year, he has a .294 BABIP, which is 30 points below his career average
4) His rates (BB%, LD%, K%) are pretty similar to last year’s
5) Trading him is fine. Getting NOTHING back for him is not
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Rios is not a 5.5 Win player
2.5 of the Wins were for defense alone last year. This year he is only worth 1.1 wins so far.
I would say he is closer to a 3.5 win to a 4.0 win player. Which doesn’t seem bad for a 5 year/$60M contract. Except in 5 years a lot can happen. A player can decline or simple get hurt. Their is always an element of risk for that increases with every year on a contract.
The Jays couldn’t take that risk so moved Rios.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Nonsense, IMO
if he’s a 3.5 win player (which I just about agree with, I think, value-wise) a 5 year, $60m contract is great value. No matter how you slice it. Other than getting lucky/good in your drafts, you really can’t get that sort of value for money easily in baseball (it’s not easy to get a 3.5+ win player, in his prime, for $12m/yr in the free-agent market). It’s also backloaded, which is good for the team (i.e. he doesn’t cost much now, so they could dump him/try to trade him after 2 years when the cost bumps up a bit).
I guess it’s possible you might be able to spend that contract money on something that’ll be worth more than 3.5 wins/yr, but it’s not easy on the free agent market. They had a player signed to a below-market value contract. Given Ricciardi’s recent lack of success in such negotiations, I’m not really convinced they’re going to find anything better to spend that cash on.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
What if he dives and hurts his back
Out for the season. He suddenly is a 0 win player. You assume to much
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
What if he breaks out and hits .330/.400/.600 with awesome defense?
Same argument could be made that you assume too little.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I am not necessarily trying say trading Rios was a good idea
I am simply trying to explain to you guys sometimes it is simply about the money. That is the bottom line. You guys can’t grasp this thought for some reason.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That's fair enough
however, you have to think they should’ve realised that when they offered that deal.
Also, seems to me you were arguing that it was “too risky” to keep Rios, and not that they (economically speaking) simply couldn’t afford his contract any more. I disagree with the former, but can imagine the latter is a distinct possibility.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't say it's simply about the money
They didn’t trade Roy Halladay when they could’ve
Performance and future value isn’t taken into account?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Halladay has a lot more value than Rios
Not just in the baseball sense but in the overall organization.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Then it's not only about money
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Of course not
But it is still a large factor
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
same argument applies for any player
and it’s specious. The WAR $ valuation per win takes into account the possibility that a player could be injured and unproductive, and a position player is less of an injury risk than a pitcher.
If you go down that argument’s logical route, you can argue to never sign any player to a long-term contract except one that is absurdly team-friendly (i.e. you’ll never ever sign any free agents) and become the Florida Marlins.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No it doesn't
And Frankly the whole 1 Win equals $4.4M is the the dumbest thing ever. Where is the curve?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you claiming that you're smarter than the ones who came up with that valuation?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I spent a decent of amount of time last off season
Emailing back and forth with Sean “CHONE” Smith and Tom Tango about the value of a win.
I have different numbers in regards to what a value of a win is. A Two Win player is worth more than double 2 One Win players. The value of scarcity of positions is not taken into account into such crude one win equals $4.4M.
It is a rough guideline that is abused like UZR/150 is.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It IS a rough guideline yeah
like I said below, context, scarcity etc comes into it. But Rios is much more valuable than $12m/yr, however you slice it. He plays a defensively challenging (i.e. scarce) position (CF) and is a much better than average player (if we assume the 3.5 win thing), so either way, according to your argument, we should be assigning him MORE than $4.4m per win he provides.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Average =/= replacement
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Isn't scarcity of postition...
part of the WAR calculation? It may not be a factor in the value/win, but is used to adjust said wins.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Aug 11, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
NO IT ISN"T
Wins are bought linearly, and the value of wins (playoff probability added) is linear.
F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday
by vivaelpujols on Aug 11, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
why does that even matter? Rios is a 3-4 win player? Wouldn’t the 4.5 MIl/WAr be undervaluing him?
F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday
by vivaelpujols on Aug 11, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more...
about the way WAR, UZR, and dollars/win are, IMO, (mis)used. These stats are guidelines, and the distinctions made between players at the margins just don’t exist with the certainty asserted.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 11, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
"No it doesn't"?
well, yes it does.
I don’t subscribe to the 1 win = $4.4m thing religiously either. It depends on context. Suffice to say, however, that the valuation of free agent players takes into account the total amount of money paid to free agents, and the total amount of WAR they produce. It’s a simple division. So it includes all the guys like Jason Schmidt, as well as the guys like Rios.
And, realistically, an outfielder having a career-threatening injury isn’t hugely likely. You might as well argue it’s stupid to ever sign a player long-term if you’re going to say “well, he might get injured” without recognising that this is a risk that teams have to balance when offering contracts.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Injury Risk
This is present with every player signed to a contract by an organization. Now, some players with an injury history might be considered to be a higher injury risk, but I don’t know that Rios is one of those types.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I read today,
He has been on the DL one time in his career with an infected leg. Not exactly a recurring, nagging injury likely to flare up.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
That argument applies to every single player ever ever ever
Any one of them could have a catastrophic injury at any time, and as such there is ALWAYS risk involved. Rios only has to be a hair over two WAR for the next five years to “earn” that contract. Considering he’s in the midst of an unlucky hitting season (dramatically lower BABIP) I’d say it’s highly likely he’ll rebound.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait:
Sometimes a club needs actual money more than potential prospects.
Why are money and prospects mutually exclusive? I am saying they could have dumped his salary AND gotten some chips from the Sox or whoever else – if not at the deadline then in the offseason.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Do you think they didn't try to get prospects from the Sox?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter
if they wanted prospects and didn’t get them, they could have kept him. It’s not like they DFA’d him, they simply put him on waivers.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Toronto is averaging over 5000 less a game this year
So around 400,000 less people this year than last. I think they simply needed the money
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Then why not move Halladay?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Halladay has more value
And over produces on his contract
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You just said that it's
“simply about money sometimes”. If that’s the case, then Halladay makes more money this year and next year than Rios, so unless the Jays are turning into the Marlins financially this is a really stupid deal.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Gate receipts when Roy pitches
are much higher than on days he doens’t pitch. Also, Rios had a very public profanity laced spat that was youtubed earlier this season and has lost alot of support among Jays fans.
But Rios is comparatively cheap right now
Do you think they were that desperate that they had to dump him RIGHT AWAY? Why hang on to Halladay if they were on the verge of such a huge financial disaster?
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I have the same problem with what the Reds are doing.
They have very little shot at winning this or next year. Why not try to land some prospects when you can? Nope, they go and get an aging, oft-injured 3b.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
That was much worst move
Than simply giving up Rios
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Dumping Rios doesn't mean giving up on 2010
Dumping Halladay is pretty damn close to it
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the crux of the argument:
With the money that they save from dumping Rios, they cannot go out to the FA market and replace his production. His contract was undervalued.
If you think that they can compete in 2010 getting a little bit worse, you are entitled to your opinion.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
They want to resign Scutaro
And it might not of been possible without dumping Rios. Easier to replace an OFer than a MIFer
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 11, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you hear JP's press conference?
He threw Scutaro under a fucking bus and sat on it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I think if the Bluejays think they have any hope of contention in 2010
they are sadly mistaken.
I think Ricciardi, unless he’s an idiot, knows it too. They probably just want to retain the veneer of outwardly appearing to try.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Scutaro isn't going to be that expensive.
He is likely to be a type A free agent – no one is going to want to give up 2 draft picks for him, much like the orlando cabrera situation last year. Toronto will likely offer him arb, which there is a high likelihood he accepts.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
nor is Scutaro that good
the Rios dumping is inexplicable in light of Ricciardi’s pig-headedness re: the Halladay trade negotiations. He’s going to keep Halladay and go for it next year and then he dumps his best position player for nothing but salary relief. Bizarre! What good does Halladay do you next year then?
I honestly don't get it
I think that realistically he must have been posturing with the “win in 2010” talk, and is going to re-test the Halladay waters in the offseason.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
He has to trade Halladay now, IMO.
His maneuverings make no sense to me. The Rolen trade wasn’t great, but I understand it as salary relief. So, whatever. The lack of a Halladay trade is bizarre. He was getting some very good offers. As Chuck points out, he then announces he’s in “win in 2010” mode and promptly trades his best position player for little more than a bag of baseballs. He keeps Vernon Wells. Alex Rios is the player most likely to be an effective big leaguer the next time the Jays are in a position to compete. It’s just bizarre.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I agree with you re:Halladay
Ricciardi could have easily gotten the moon for Halladay but was only going to take the stars (which no one was willing to pony up). I think it’s the classic example of overselling your hand.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what?
They can’t find someone over the next 5 years for $60 M in this climate that will produce better than Alex fucking Rios?
They should quit baseball if they can’t.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 11, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you think his talent level is?
His salary (from Cots): 2010:$9.7M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
I think he is a true talent 3 WAR guy on the conservative side. If 1 WAR costs $4.5 million, thats a pretty significant bargain for the first year of that deal at least – why just give that away?
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Because you have ZERO assurances
you will be able to get out from under giving him $12 M for the next 4+ years.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 11, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're going to give a player away for free
you should at least do it with the contract that is the biggest albatross on your team, which was Vernon Wells. Obviously nobody would bite on taking Wells off of their hands, so he moved Rios instead because he still had value.
Now, to your point: If they are in such bad financial shape that they have to give away players for nothing in return, then why wasn’t Halladay traded for the Philly package that got Cliff Lee? You would save nearly twice what Rios is owed for the next two years and get prospects in return who could help your cost average per player drop immensely, making the Wells and Rios contracts more palatable. Instead, they gave away a player and got nothing in return except salary relief that’s 2-3 years down the road, when the Yanks will have a bunch of guys in their mid-30’s anchoring down their payroll.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Yeah
and I suspect Halladay could’ve brought back a little more than the Tribe got for Lee, even given his less-friendly contract, he’s simply a better pitcher. They basically held out for wayyyy too much and Amaro called their bluff. Presumably, no-one else was offering anything like that for Halladay (though personally I’d have liked to have got him for something like the Holliday package).
Makes no sense.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Literally giving away a good player on a team-friendly deal isn't a horrible move?
Okay….
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but they gave him to my husband's favorite team. So it's okay by me.
They plan to move him into center field, which has been a black hole of nothingness for them for about 5 years running. If they change their mind and send him to right field, they don’t have to try to keep iron glove Jermaine Dye out there.
When Scotty Pods and DeWayne Wise are taking regular turns in your outfield, getting an Alex Rios for only money is a gift from the GOB.
For the Jays, it’s incredibly stupid IMO to give up Rios for nothing, so yeah, I agree with you. A horrible deal.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, and could you get Mike Adams for the bullpen, please?
Bad words aren't allowed to be said about DeWayne Wise ever again
After the Perfect Catch
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Actually, I'm not trying to say bad things about DeWayne Wise
He made that great catch, and actually quite a few others that were pretty great. He’s even gotten a key hit or two. He just doesn’t hit enough to be out there much. I’m all for the Sox keeping him, provided they play him part time. He’s been around a long time-up and down, passed through a couple organizations. I’m glad he’s in a place that understands and appreciates what he can do, without fretting too much about what he can’t do.
My husband thinks Rios being in an actual hitters park is going to help him.
Oh, and I think it’s neat that Wise will always be known for the perfect catch in the perfect game.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, and could you get Mike Adams for the bullpen, please?
I agree about the hitters' park thing re:Rios
obviously won’t affect his WAR or whatever (park-adjusted) but I think he’ll have a new lease of life, offensively.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
This is my favorite quote...
Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said the move was not “a financial dump,” but acknowledged that Toronto needs “more financial flexibility.”
Paraphrasing: “It’s not a salary dump, it’s a salary dump.”
Adding to paraphrase: "If any team in it’s right fucking mind would take Vernon Wells for nothing, well, we’d have even more “financial flexibility”.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 11, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, his real name is Alexis
I wouldn’t want no nancy on my team, either
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Aug 11, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alexis Rios is baseball's ultimate Lindsey Hunter All-Star
Bill Simmons leaves much to be desired as a sports-thinking, but I do love the Lindsey Hunter-All Star team.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
alexis sounds like a strippers name
no offense to our stripper friends, i’m just sayin
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
i wonder if they'll start dancing on the foul poles during the 7th inning stretch?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
they have a good history on the south side
of good ball park promotions
(see disco demolition night, or whatever it was called)
Alexei Ramirez is how it's spelled
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I believe it's said like this...
ah-LEX-ees.
Maybe?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
uh-lex-ee
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Are we talking about Ramirez or Rios?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i was talking about ramirez
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Damnit, me...pay the fuck attention!
What?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
after looking
i think it’s me that wasn’t paying attention
i have no idea about rios. i though it was just alex rios
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
What about a boy
named Sue?
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, my daddy left home when I was three...
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
has any gm ever come out and said "this is a salary dump"?
i think that the padres’ gm may have said something about having to cut salary. but i don’t know that they ever come out and say anything more than “we think trading (jake peavy/jason marquis/whoever) is the right move for the team right now and gives us the flexibility we need.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
next up: Halladay demands trade
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 11, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
presumably followed by having to give him up for a package inferior to what they could've got from the Phillies a month ago...
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 11, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
La Russa's favorite unit of measure
is not wins above .500. it is Grit Per Inch. all-time leaders: eck, miles.
This is several days late and totally off topic
but I’ve been out of town and I’m just now catching up on the important reading in my life.
And it seems to have gone entirely unremarked.
That the game-thread haiku suddenly morphed into a game-thread double dactyl has me finally convinced about this whole internet thing—we might have something here. Laurels to you, Danup.
So there were dactyls?
I honestly don’t remember exactly what a dactyl is… but I have not-so-fond memories of trying to do scansion of Latin Poetry in dactylic hexameter in ninth grade. It’s strange enough to do scansion for the first time with a language that you speak every day… doing it for a language that nobody actually speaks anymore was pretty daunting.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
All I learned in 4 years of Latin was that
Caecilius in foro ambulat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
And semper ubi sub ubi
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Always where under where
Always wear underwear
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Underwear is unnecessary
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's have an empirical study
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I'm not sure I know what that means,
but I am going to remove my underwear on lunch and see if I’m able to complete my day without it.
Not just complete,
but perform better than with replacement level underwear
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
whatever is freely available in the dirty laundry hamper
probably something along the lines of tighty whiteys with a hole and a skid mark or two
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 11, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is the underwear with Pujols on the front
and a Pegacorn on the rear.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Make sure you wear those rightside out
Watch out for the horn
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
The one that starts higgeldy piggeldy
It’s a nonsense form, waiting for the name Jonathan Pappelbon.
Ah. Didn't realize it was that specific.
The examples in the wikipedia article are hilarious
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
GREAT GREAT article at BtB about replacement level and Alex Rios
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Wainer's Uncle Charlie
Here’s a different view of how Wainer throws his Uncle Charlie curve.
It’s really quite simple. He just pulls down hard over the front top of the ball with his middle finger. He extends his index finger so it doesn’t get in the way.
I’ve got some other angles, and I’ll see if any are even clearer.
I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.
pulls down hard w/ middle finger -- like the one that got the pulley injury?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Yep. That's the one.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
There's the rub
I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.
didn’t get to see the show last night because Shellac was playing a free show last night in downtown Chicago (that was weird)…. but I was excited to see when I got home that A. Lohse did well and B. Boog is back and hitting the ball off the outfield fence again. one of my favorite players after the last few months.
looking forward to checking out a game or two this weekend! and trying the toasted ravioli and meeting up for VEB day
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions
*didn't get to see the game
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I just saw them when they came through Portland last month
Absolutely phenomenal show. My only disappointment was that they didn’t play Wingwalker.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 11, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
it was crazy hearing them on a giant soundsystem at a free outdoor show with kids running around
lots of F bombs for that
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
the little ones seemed to be really enjoying it though
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
"Prayer to God"
is holy crap good.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Aug 11, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw them once under similar circumstances
They played the noise festival in Princeton about 10 years ago when I was living in Jersey. It was a huge outdoor event with US Maple, Uzeda, Don Cab, Enemy Mine, Arab on Radar. It was crazy fucking loud.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 11, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Don Cab is amazing to watch live
Damon Che has to bolt his drumkit into a special board he brings with so they don’t move around when he’s playing… probably the best drummer I’ve ever seen.
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
OT: self-reccin' again
Have arrived at a stopping point with the Glossary. (Check out the extra players section…)
Again, still many borderline calls to be made, but my guidelines are that it
1. is not related to only one poster or group of posters
2. is being used on a regular basis.
In other words, I just plug it into search and check the comments. I just work here, man.
THANK YOU to everyone who contributed. Doing anything that rates 90 recs is a humbling and terrifying experience. Salute!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Much appreciated
I think VEB may be teetering on the brink of being too self-referential (not that it shouldn’t with the great content it pumps out on a daily basis, but still). The current glossary is likely just enough…for now.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 11, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
if it doesn't catch on, it doesn't catch on
With the glossary out there, my cut-offs for abridgment will be more stringent. I’ve eliminated a few phrases I’ve coined, as well, just because they’re under-used.
The easiest measure is when there’s a split-second ALL-CAPS moment, and everyone uses the term. Can’t fake spontaneity.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
also, I'm opposed to noobs coming in
and acting like they know all the terms. I lurked for years, whippersnappers!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I don't know the terms
Sorry Mr. Yadi2Second. I just want to be accepted.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
LURK MOAR!
Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"
And try to throw some sinkers if you can
kthanx
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 11, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome BP scouting report of the Cubs/Phils series
Here.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
a "nostalgic" piece on all that's missing from baseball...
Except I’ve seen some of them every game in Busch Stadium.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I get yelled at by my softball team
because I basket catch virtually every pop up that comes my way.
I like to feel like I’m doing my part to bring it back.
baseball salutes you
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Happy Birthday Colby!!!!
And many more Redbird birthday’s to come!!!
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
That presupposes that he'll be starting.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
it's quasi-official.
welly to the DL. anybody want to guess whether how much his elbow hurts depends on how well mitch boggs pitches?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
i'd say so
considering that boggs was already in the cardinal clubhouse by the time welly’s scratch was announced
but i dunno, maybe he was just sayin’ hey on the day before his scheduled start for memphis
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
only if there's quotes around it
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Too soon...
I will joke all day about putting a worthless human being to death, but I will NEVER joke about putting down an adorable yellow labrador.
V, b.
You know, why don't we just call Holliday "The Protector"
It screams of “The Terminator”, which he is built like. It also gives off some sort of “white-knight on a horse coming in to help AP fend off the wicked Dragon of suckitude” image.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
if only lineup protection wasn't a myth..
..debate started.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
It would have to be at least a somewhat ironic nickname.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Well, he is kind of the opposite of Larry Walker...
…in that he plays LF, bats right…can we call him Rally Runner?
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I kinda like that actually
Kim Jong Il finds it confusing though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 11, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta switch the Rs and Ls!!
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
A recommendation for you, sir.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah
why can’t they just say that adding an above average regular to the lineup, that replaces a below average hitter, means success
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Precisely
Turns out improving your lineup usually leads to scoring more.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees...
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
But old baseball wisdom is old, therefore it's better.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'll bite.....
What do you consider lineup protection?
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
Oh really nothing.
Hence the whole “white knight” meme. I have been flogged with my own tube sock full of information about how lineup protection really doesn’t exist ever since I joined here, which was a good while ago.
The name would be a bit of a tongue-in-cheek reference in regards to traditional thinking about lineup protection. However, it would also be a bit serious in that he has ridden in on his white horse to protect our lineup from the likes of Dunc, Stav, and Thursty Joe in left field.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
There is no debating.....
That it protects Albert to some degree.
Even if that degree is simply that a team cannot take Albert away by not pitching to him, b/c we have a really good bat behind him. Does Holliday not “protect” Albert more than Ankiel would?
That is why I asked exactly what he meant by lineup protection. Alot can fall under that subject.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
What about adding a high OBP player or two in front of Pujols?
Isn’t that “protection?”
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Absolutely.....
I think what we are hitting in front of Albert is fine though. Skip has done a good job. Now, the 2 hole could use some help, but I tell you, I really like Lugo up there as well. Of course, Lugo is a good guy to hit 7th or 8th as well, as his speed plays well in bunting situations.
I really wish Colby was swinging a better bat. He too plays well in the 2 hole when he is.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
I don't think Colby is a good fit for the 2 hole
His OBP isn’t good, and batting him 5th of 6th would maximize his power and basestealing ability.
F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday
by vivaelpujols on Aug 11, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh.....
His power isn’t enough to unseat Luddy from the 5th spot, and I think he probably belongs below DeRosa as well.
There is no reason Colby can’t/shouldn’t walk more than he has. And again, I wasn’t saying I’d put him there this year, bc outside of a 3 week stretch, he hasn’t done much.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
I'd rather have this lineup
Schumaker
Holiday
Pujols
Ludwick
Derosa
Rasmus
Yadi
Ryan
Pitcher
F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday
by vivaelpujols on Aug 11, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Boner
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Aug 11, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see your point.....
I just hate to waste Holliday’s ability to drive in runs, by having Ryan, the pitcher, and Skip hit ahead of him. I want a little bit better situation for our second best hitter.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
To follow up.....
Holliday’s OB skills still play in the 4th spot, b/c you have guys like Luddy and DeRosa/Raz behind him that are still RBI guys. Plus, you can use his speed after Pujols, it doesn’t play ahead of him.
Think of it this way…..sure a double by Holliday is good if one of the guys ahead of him is on, but all those xtra base hits in front of Pujols simply make it the easy decision to walk Albert. Holliday doubles? Walk Albert and deal with whats behind him. If Lugo, or Raz, or whomever doubles in the two hole, you can’t walk Albert, cause then you have Holliday still.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
Holliday's biggest ability is to get on base at a high clip
And DeRosa, Pujols and Ludwick are plenty good at driving in runs.
Either way, it doesn’t really matter that much. If you and I were to put out two different lineups, the difference in RS would be negligable.
F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday
by vivaelpujols on Aug 11, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW...
Holliday’s slash stats since joining the Cards:
.459 /.500/.803/1.303 (OPS+ 239)
Holy Fucking Shit ©
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
That's great
but seriously, he needs to be taking more walks….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
That lineup is ideal.
I might switch B-Ryan and Pitcher for nostalgia.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
now that's a freakin lineup!
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
Except switch Rasmus and Derosa
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Walking Albert is almost always a good thing for the Cardinals.
If we cannot agree on this matter, further discussion will be fruitless.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
With Holliday and a healthy Luddy behind him?
Agreed.
With a slumping Luddy and either Raz or Ankiel/Duncan behind him? No way Jose.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
Close enough for me
Lets see some Albert walks tonight, Lehr!
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
putting Albert on intentionally
in most circumstances, is a good thing for us
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
no debating?
really? should we go through albert’s stats from before holliday joined the team v. those after he joined the team? i think we would find some room for debate.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
A slump is a slump
Geez.
Nobody said if you place Holliday behind Albert, Albert will never get out again.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
I don't think that tom s. is saying that was the expectation.
But, surely, if “protecting” a batter with the player batting behind him is, in fact, possible, then you’re giving a player more “protection” by batting a better hitter behind him. It would therefore follow that the player being protected’s numbers should go up, which is the point tom s. was making, I believe.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't think that there is such thing as "lineup protection"
insofar as no matter who hits behind a player, that players’ production won’t materially increase.
For instance, whoever hits in the 2-hole in front of Albert doesn’t get a boost in his avg, obp, slg, or ops, or anything (his production becomes more valuable as a runner on for Albert is more valuable than a runner on for anyone else, but his actual production doesn’t increase).
For everyone that says the protected hitter is going to get more fastballs/better pitches to hit (all evidence is to the contrary), his likelihood of being walked is dramatically decreased as empirical evidence has shown.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
OK, all arguments aside,
does the name have legs? I really like it.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Yeah, I do like that one.
The dude really does look like man who should be riding a Chariot. I think “The Roman” has been tossed about as well.
I’ve also considered “Shooter”, ‘cause he’s from Oklahoma and he really shoots the gaps well, but that brought visions of “Shooter McGavin” from Happy Gilmore and I just couldn’t do it. But, being from OK really begs for the name Doc. Sadly, Mr. Halladay has already claimed that one.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I still like Bug.
Sadly I’m alone.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I think The Trojan...
combines the Roman Holliday thing with protection. We’ll soon know if it flies.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
None of these are tripping my trigger.
but I got nothing either. “the 4th guy.” “TLR’s boy”
“Walrus v2”
we might just end up Ludwicking him
Holli-_.
_-day.
That’s my guess.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
exactly
Next time he nutmegs someone…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Agreed.
The best way to “protect” Pujols is to put a high-OBP guy with a high walk rate in the lineup in front of him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think you should look at the numbers
because the overwhelming majority of the players who have batted in front of Pujols during his Cardinal career have done markedly better batting in front of him than when batting elsewhere. The only way lineup protection can be even close to real is when the delta between the talent level of adjacent players is huge. For example, Pujols can protect an Aaron Miles, but nobody can protect Pujols. Conversely, an absolute pile of suckitude batting behind Pujols (a la Dick’n’Dunc) can negatively impact Albert, especially if he doesn’t exercise good plate discipline.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I have looked at the numbers...
Actually, I would like to know what numbers you are looking at
Links like I provided would be much more helpful than just telling me to “look at the numbers”
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
I have read all the articles you linked
but they don’t explain how the hitters who batted in front of Pujols from 2004-2008 slashed .305/.370/.510/.880 in 2328 PAs and those same players slashed .267/.352/.438/.790 in 3387 PAs when not hitting directly in front of Pujols. In general the more marginal the player in front of Pujols the larger the effect. I haven’t run the numbers when the sultans of suck were hitting behind Pujols as they (thank God) probably aren’t enough PAs to be statistically significant.
I can’t disagree that the notion of protection has very little credence in general, but I don’t think you can say the Pujols effect doesn’t exist.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I wouldn't say that having Pujols
in the lineup doesn’t effect the players batting around him, but I do think that it’s pretty marginal at best. Maybe those same players hit better with the bases empty than with runners on, an Albert is on base nearly half the time.
The whole “lineup protection” idea has been studied by people like Tom Tango and Bill James, and they’ve found that having a better hitter hitting behind someone like Pujols doesn’t really effect Pujols’ numbers, mostly because unless Albert Pujols is batting behind Albert Pujols, you’d still rather take your chances with the other guy. I do think that players would generally see more strikes hitting in front of Pujols, but I don’t know that to be the case.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I agree with you in general
especially that there really isn’t a human being alive who could “protect” Albert Pujols. I still don’t think you can ignore the substantial boost in the production of the guys who have hit in front of him though. I haven’t broken down the numbers for this year, but don’t you think 5000+ PAs is signficant?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I agree that it is...
but there could be varying other degrees to which their enhanced success could be applied as well:
- Some could hit better with the bases empty.
- Some may hit fastballs better than curveballs and see more of those in the 2 spot.
- There could be some split issues here too: Perhaps Duncan faced more hittable righties in the 2 hole and more tough lefties in the 4 hole.
- Perhaps there’s more pressure to produce runs in the cleanup spot than in the second spot and certain guys can’t handle that (see Soriano, Alfonso)
It’s intuitive that Pujols would be the difference, because he’s the common factor here, but that doesn’t explain Holliday’s fantastic start with the BOB — would he be batting .650 hitting in the 2 spot? I highly doubt it. Similarly, Ludwick’s numbers form a small sample size — when he was hitting in front of Pujols last year he was still being platooned, and thus facing pitchers who he had more of an advantage against, His OPS in the 4 spot last year is only .50 points lower, and could well be factored into playing every day and facing tougher pitchers.
I’m not inclined to disagree with your point, I think it may very well be valid, but it’s also really hard to prove with empirical evidence that certain guys hit better in front of Pujols than behind him, and how to best take advantage of that situation.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
True
I just think that some folks get a little dogmatic about certain ideas that they consider to be proven and let it interfere with their judgment. I would say there is a large body of evidence that heavily discounts the protection myth, but there are a lot of things that just don’t apply to Albert the same way as they do to everyone else. FWIW, if Ludwick truly was being platooned in the #2 spot then the advantage is all the more real since he has been a reverse split guy.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Not necessarily
FWIW, if Ludwick truly was being platooned in the #2 spot then the advantage is all the more real since he has been a reverse split guy.
He may have been hitting there against pitchers that LaRussa felt he had an advantage against, more so than Rick or Duncan did. The platoon from the beginning of last season was not indicative of traditional platoon usage if you’ll remember — it was about finding out who the productive outfield tandem was going to be.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
The Protector....
Kinda sounds like a bad TNT drama.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 11, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
then
can we call apu whitney houston?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
don't you fucking do it
don’t anyone of you get that gotdamned fucking song stuck in my head
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
And I........will always......
Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"
funnily, enough, i believe those are the actual lyrics to
“i will always love you (reprise) (bobby brown remix).”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 11, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
damnit, my true identity has been compromised!
abort the mission! abort! abort!
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
What song are you guys talking about?
Speaking of songs, I just heard this 90’s cover of a Dolly Parton song that I’ve always loved. It was covered by some gal named Whitney Houston? Anyway, it goes "And IIIIIIIIIIIIII will always LOOOOOO—
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
where's my knife?
damnit! why can’t i ever find anything when i need it! sonofabitch!
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Here is a lengthy article
on Tommy John surgery increase in teenagers for those that might have interest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/magazine/09littleleague-t.html?_r=3&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all
Interesting note from that article
Andrews says that a properly thrown curveball (and he stresses properly) does not place undue stress on the elbow.
And he says that a slider stresses the shoulder more than the elbow. Which I didn’t know, and find odd, but I’m no genius on the subject.
I’ll avoid the discussion about the dad who was trying to protect his kid but kept letting him pitch through pain, etc. I was talking to my brother last night and he knows guys who’ve done the same thing with their kid.
Comments
And he says that a slider stresses the shoulder more than the elbow. Which I didn’t know, and find odd, but I’m no genius on the subject.
There’s no evidence for this (or logic).
I think the problem is that the people who are measuring this aren’t doing it right.
I’ll avoid the discussion about the dad who was trying to protect his kid but kept letting him pitch through pain, etc. I was talking to my brother last night and he knows guys who’ve done the same thing with their kid.
In the 8th grade City/County playoffs, we went up against a kid who threw 140 pitches and a CG. That was on top of 2 innings and maybe 30 pitches 3 days before.
They ended up losing in the finals, I assume because this kid was used up.
I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.
Wrong interpretation of the slider
I don’t think you’re interpreting what Andrews said correctly…
Those who threw sliders were 86 percent more likely to endure elbow pain.
I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.
No offense but
I’m more disposed to take Andrews word over yours.
But Andrews didn't say what you said he did
At least not in the article cited above.
Here’s the full quote…
In 1999, with $150,000 in financing and sponsorship by USA Baseball, Andrews and Fleisig began the first in a series of studies on the interlocking relationships between pitch count, pitch type, arm fatigue and pain. That year they collected data from 476 Alabama youth-league pitchers between the ages of 9 and 14. Their findings: Over the course of the season, more than half of the pitchers experienced shoulder or elbow pain. For each increment of 25 pitches thrown after 50 pitches, the percentage of pitchers experiencing pain increased as fatigue set in. Those who threw curveballs were 52 percent more likely to feel shoulder pain. Those who threw sliders were 86 percent more likely to endure elbow pain.
Also, the slider WILL put more stress on the shoulder than the curve, but that’s because it’s thrown harder.
That’s not significant.
What is significance is the increased risk of elbow pain.
I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.
which one is that one?
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine too i am so PUMPED!
im thinking about growing one just so i can wear them together…im sure my wife will have something to say about that though…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
we could do a fanshot or fanpost
showing everyone wearing their VEB attire… flim rulz
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine as well
How many do you think he sold after BOOG! was sporting it?
Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"
Mine shipped today as well
I bet they sold a ton after last night.
After much negotiation, I convinced my wife to let me grow the stache. I started it on Monday 7/27. The Cards are 10-3 since I started it.
Unfortunately, I don’t grow facial hair very quickly so my stache is worse than everyone’s except Colby.
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I feel your pain
I’m at day 66 with my stache, and it’s just now able to be seen from accross a room. going back and figuring out their record since I started growing it is too much effort for me though.
Never had facial hair before
And it took some serious concessions to get it done but there is no way it is coming off until the season is over. Should be nice and bushy by November.
Can’t wait for the t-shirt. Since it shipped today I should have it for the VEB meet and greet on Saturday.
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
Rockin the beard
I grew this while spending 5 days on a desert island (that is owned by the Boy Scouts) in the Florida Keys…
It was kind of cool, but it scratched a bit.
Sadly, I had to shave it off for a project.
I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.
How did you put the picture in the comment?
It won’t let me do it unless I publish it to a URL.
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
click the pic of the tree
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
When I do that
It opens the box asking for the URL (http://) and I don’t have the picture on the web, it is on my local hard drive.
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
upload to tinypic.com
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
Stache progress - Day 16
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
Didn't work
Work firewall must be blocking.
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I have the pic posted to Facebook
So I just link to it there.
I'm dumb, she's a lesbian. I thought I had found the one.
We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good.
Pink triangle on her sleeve let me know the truth.
my guess is: a lot
It made 10@10, #3.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Seriously, is this a music blog or a baseball blog?
Why do we wind up with 50-60 music posts on at least 2 threads per week?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
hipsters
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Hm, maybe you're on to something
They were talking about Radiohead.
I say, if they weigh the same as a duck, they’re a dirty hipster, and we burn ’em! With fire!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Burn The Witch!!!!
going to be the greatest Radioheadsong to ever come across this earth.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
actually, that's a Queens of the Stone Age song
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh the doubters will see some day
The doubters shall see!!
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 11, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
What floats on water?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
pumice?
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Aug 11, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
that is a good band
you should check out their album pebbles
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
hmmm
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like an early 70s prog rock band
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
'00s
noise pop band
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
sounds cool
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
if you search
you can probably find a thread on mt with a dl link. if you’re into doing illegal stuff like that. if not, i’m nust kidding
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Churches
Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!
by jd is legend on Aug 11, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Get off my phonograph, damn hippies!
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
lol
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
for someone
who bitches about people who talk about soccer, football, etc in game threads, i’ll just sit here and look pretty
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i dunno
Red Baron? people listen to music a lot?
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Music is pretty awesome, kind of like the St. Louis Cardinals
I think there would definitely be some kind of correlation if you ran the numbers. This could lead to a whole new interpretation of “lineup composition”… or it would if that weren’t a myth.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
it could be the musicbaseball genome project
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
And it is really sad to me, b/c it is like they are speaking a different language
I’ve literally never heard of 90-95 percent of the artists and songs. I didn’t realize I was so sheltered.
I'm sort of at the other end of the spectrum
I see a lot of the bands and think “oh that’s quaint”
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm right there with you.
I suspect I’m tuned into different radio stations than others on this blog from STL.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I listen to NPR.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Perseids tonight
Expected to peak Wednesday morning around 1 a.m., and then again just before dawn. Might stay up for that after the game.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
or earlier
“Between 9 p.m. and 11 p.m. (local time wherever you are), meteors will be less frequent but may look brighter than during the shower’s peak.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
sometimes I wonder: if I change my avatar, will azru kill me?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
is this why you don't have one?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
hmm
so I wonder who will be in the lineup for tonight’s game? I haven’t even heard who’s pitching yet
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions
Pitching Match-Up:
Mitchell Boggs vs. Justin Lehr, making his third start of the season and of his MLB career.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
weird
right when I went over to look at who’s pitching and came back, there were comments.
I actually already knew Boggs was pitching but forgot, since I’m a space cadet.
this other young pitcher looks like he is doing a little better than boggs, but it should be a good matchup
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Lehr's had two starts this season.
He’s essentially a blank slate. Two months ago, I’d have predicted a 2-run performance by the offense. Now, I wouldn’t be surprised if we chase him in the bottom of the fifth with a crooked number leading to a serious number for the game.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
lugo in for boog/dero in for greene
Schumaker
Rasmus
Pujols
Holliday
Ludwick
DeRosa
Molina
Lugo
Boggs
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Aug 11, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Boog :(
Oh well. [sigh]
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
avenge :(
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it's slim chances I'll be able to go to another game this season, too
I was hoping to see him out there.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
first season in a while
i won’t be able to go to busch
unless someone in my family just happens to surprise me nest weekend when i fly back. doubtful, though since i will going to see my newborn niece
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
just tell her parents it's never too early to become a cards fan.
trying to teach my daughter to say “albert pujols” right now.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
That's adorable.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
yes. hmm.
a charitable view would be that boog is just coming off injury. i think tony is really enjoying his new toys, though.
i’m very pessimistic about lugo maintaining his value at SS as anything other than a backup. he makes a lot of sense as a platoon partner with skippy; skippy gets the start against a rightie, though.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I am mostly perplexed when Brendan doesn't go in
when the groundball pitchers go up. But yes, as my sig says… he had two ankles.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Is it my misimagination...
or does Lugo have a little bit of history as a malcontent/pouter?
I think we’ll see Lugo quite a bit at SS even if Boog isn’t injured. I think Tony will attempt to placate Lugo a little.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 11, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
apparently Tony isn't expecting a lot of ground balls from Boggs
and since Boog’s ankle is still barking, he’s having a rest tonight
apparently
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Seems more palatable to say to the press than...
“I’m appeasing this moody sumbitch Lugo because he’s under contract for next year and Boog’s still happy to be here so I’m not worried his opinion.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 11, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
“and Boog’s still happy to be herehas the disposition of a golden retriever so I’m not worried his opinion."
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 11, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rofl
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
True. Tony does know his dogs, after all.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 11, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
that's the secret to getting out of the doghouse.
you have to like sleeping there.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Aug 11, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I really wish there was someway to eliminate the Molina double-play
If Molina has someone in scoring position I love having him at the plate. But if someone’s on first I always get the feeling that a double-play is imminent.
by Cardfanintherock on Aug 11, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
make him bunt
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Aug 11, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
NO!
OHMIGOD NO RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I will try to make note of his speed
or lack thereof out of the box.
I mean, it’s an effin disappointment when I went and put my screenname on the line for him.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
blame momma molina for not making him faster
and that assclown Bud for not approving him being able to run with a jet pack
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I dig that lineup
Use Lugo against the junkballer to get some runs early then Boog it up late for d.
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
+1
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Lugo's patience
Will be better served against a guy like Lehr. Hoepfully we’ll score some early runs tonight and have a rocking chair game. We’ve been scoring all our runs from the 6th innning on lately.
"If you're excited about what you've done, you lose focus on what you're supposed to be doing next. I'll check out the stats at the end of the season. I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I've soured on Rasmus in the no. 2 slot.
I’d prefer him down in the order. But, at least Rasmus is playing what with Rick Ankiel turning it around and swinging a white hot bat and all.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Colby's borderline-.300 OBP...
…in the two hole doesn’t sound the least bit good to me. I’d like to see him hit 6 or 7 right now.
On a related note…I guess Ank’s hot stretch there has come to an end though. 5 hits in his last 37 PA. Yuck.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 11, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
haven't looked but
are there any updates on shelby miller? the deadline for signings is pretty soon right?
I really hope we sign him!
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
he's not going to be signed until the last minute -- like this weekend.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
if that happens, we need to raise a toast to the Miller signing
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I plan on raising a toast of Miller whether or not we sign him.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
a toast
to rick porcello?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Hm
I’m trying to figure out a mixed drink to make out of this. The best I can think of is a glass of Miller with a shot of limon(Por)cello. It’d be called the Draft Pick and would probably not be too good tasting.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
a glass of port with a shot of limoncello in it? revolting.
but properly reconstructs the name.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Try this.....
Miller bought Coors, Coors makes Blue Moon, and Blu Moon is good with Orange(citrus)
Blue Moon w/ limon(Por)cello.
Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"
heh
Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 11, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Since we are looking back at the last few years
here is the thing. If we don’t sign Shelby Miller, I’m going to be really pissed the team sat back and did nothing last year at the deadline. I was ok with the team standing still (outside of Lopez) at the deadline and finishing 4 GB in the Wild Card because it improved their draft position.
But, if they don’t even sign the high draft pick they got….then they just pissed away the last two months of last season for no reason. We saw Adam Kennedy play RF for no damn reason. We saw Aaron Miles starting almost every day for no damn reason.
It will reopen a wound.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 11, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions
Won't we get that pick back this season?
Don’t get me wrong, I want Shelby to sign as well, but depending what he is asking for, I wouldn’t give him the moon.
There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges
yeah, but
are we going to get a top-5 or 10 pick at 19 next? hell, we’ll probably be closer to 30
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
you get the same number pick again. the problem is that it's then a must sign.
if you don’t sign the second year, you get nothing.
so the nats kept the #10 slot (#11? can’t quite remember) they had from aaron crow last year. but they ended up getting a not-really-top-ten name, because they had to be sure to sign the guy.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Pretty sure you get the same pick +1
So the Nats would technically have #2 next year if they don’t ink him (which they will)
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
good point
if we don’t sign him, we get our #19 pick again and our low 20’s pick
but my point is we won’t get his talent level at either of those picks
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Agree
but my point is we won’t get his talent level at either of those picks
and we also have the potential to drop further if anyone ahead of us fails to sign their choice
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
i think i meant the same thing and just didn't read your comment right.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Boog and Shaq
via Leach Twitter:
Avenge, tiny man!
Shut up, Fritz™.
by Alxfritz on Aug 11, 2009 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We need to think of a
nice caption for this photo
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby
"I'll bet you can't grow a mustache this awesome, Shaq."
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
great post Dan
although i had to restrain myself from punching something while thinking about the 07 team. the rollercoaster from 06 was the most rewarding feeling i’ve ever had from a sports team because of the way it ended. all i have to say about last year is we better sign shelby miller. nice silversun pickups reference as well. fresh off seeing them at lollapalooza, where they gave the second best performance of sunday. anyways, go birds!! let’s get some breathing room this week!!!
"A slick way to out-figure a person is to get him figuring you figure he's figuring you're figuring he'll figure you aren't really figuring what you want him to figure you figure." ~ Whitey Herzog
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