Current Batting Splits

by chuckb on Jul 9, 2009 2:00 AM EDT in News Comment 208 comments

Thankfully this guy does this stuff every now and then.(AP Photo/Al Behrman)

I was curious about some of the Cardinals situational hitting as well as how bad they actually had been against lefties (Hint: really bad) so I started going through the NL league splits over at baseball-reference. I decided to go through them all and divide them up into categories according to the team’s proficiency with each. Below I have split them up into 5 categories relative to the rest of the league – way above average, above average, average, below average, and way below average. The team’s NL rank is in parentheses. You’ll notice that the ranks are not consistently placed into categories b/c it’s possible to be 2nd or 3rd in the league in a category but still be relatively close to league average. I would, therefore, have classified that split as above average instead of way above average, for example. I used OPS as the barometer for comparison.

WAY ABOVE AVERAGE

vs. RHP (2)
April (2)
July (5)
First basemen (1)
3rd place hitters (1)
9th place hitters (5)
3-1 counts (3)
1-2 counts (3)
3-2 counts (2)
after 2-0 counts (2)
after 2-1 counts (1)
after 3-1 counts (3)
after 0-2 counts (3)
3 balls (1)
runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs (2)
no outs (2)
tie game (1)
extra innings (1) – only 19 PAs
vs. relievers (3)
in Domes (1) – only 291 PA

ABOVE AVERAGE

as right handed batters (5) (thank you, Albert!)
Away (7)
Catchers (4)
2nd Basemen (9)
Pitchers (8)
1st batter of the game (5)
leading off an inning (4)
1st place hitters (8)
2nd place hitters (7)
0-2 counts (4)
2-2 counts (6)
after 0-1 counts (3)
after 2-2 counts (2)
2 strikes (4)
runner on 1st (5)
runner on 2nd (5)
runners on 1st and 2nd (6)
bases loaded (3)
scoring margin greater than 4 runs (7)
3rd inning (6)
4th inning (5)
5th inning (7)
6th inning (5)
7th inning (5)
vs. starter, 2nd time through the order (3)
vs. starter, 3rd time through the order (3)
vs. power pitchers (7)
in day games (6)

AVERAGE

as left handed batters (7)
June (9)
starters (7)
subs (9)
2-0 counts (8)
after 3-0 counts (9)
after 1-1 counts (7)
after 1-2 counts (9)
w/ runners in scoring position (8)
w/ no one on base (7)
w/ runners on base (7)
runners on 2nd and 3rd (9)
1 out (7)
within 1 run (7)
within 2 runs (9)
within 4 runs (7)
high leverage (9)
medium leverage (6)
low leverage (5)
1st inning (8)
9th inning (8)
vs. fly ball pitchers (8)
vs. ground ball pitchers (9)
open roof stadiums (8)

BELOW AVERAGE

at home (12)
Shortstops (9)
Center fielders (9)
Right fielders (10)
Pinch hitters (12)
5th place hitters (11)
8th place hitters (11)
on the 1st pitch (9)
3-0 counts (12)
0-1 counts (13)
1-1 counts (10)
runner on third (11)
w/ 2 outs (14)
late and close situations (11)
within 3 runs (11)
in the 8th inning (10)
at night (11)

WAY BELOW AVERAGE

vs. left handed pitchers (16)
in May (13)
Third basemen (14)
Left fielders (13)
4th place hitters (15)
6th place hitters (14)
7th place hitters (14)
1-0 counts (15)
runners on 1st and 3rd (14)
runner on third and 2 out (16)
2 outs and runners in scoring position (15)
2nd inning (16)
vs. starting pitchers, 1st time through the order (16)
vs. finesse pitchers

The bottom line – we’re an average offensive team…but only b/c we have Pujols. We have some big holes in the order and, in fact, it’s tough for the team to score once we get past the 3rd spot in the order. Hopefully Ludwick’s heating up and that will change somewhat. We’re neither very good nor very bad in the clutch – we’re good in tie games but not w/ 2 outs and runners in scoring position, for example. But we’re average. We’re average against fly ball pitchers AND ground ball pitchers. We’re average in high, medium, and low leverage situations. Our starters are average and so are our subs.

Going into this exercise we probably already knew where we were especially weak (vs. lefties and at 3B) and where we were especially strong (1B) but we might not have known how bad we are the first time through the order – simply awful! Any idea why? We’re below average on the first pitch and yet we’ve put more first pitches in play than any other team in the NL. Does this make sense? I don’t have a lot of new answers here. I was just hoping that condensing this info would stimulate some discussion until the game arrives at 1:00. It’s a rubber game and we’re facing a lefty. You probably don’t need to look at the info above to know how we’ve fared against lefties but did you know we were above average in day games? Hopefully that helps us today (and this weekend!)

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Comments

I wonder if part of the first time through problems is

because we aren’t seeing enough pitches in those early at-bats to make mid-at bat adjustments.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2009 2:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Whither the productive at-bat! I know it exists. Or is it a pegacorn?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 9, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't you kill my dream

pegicorn’s are real

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jul 9, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what I thought

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they must be overanxious at the start of the game

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know how to get career splits

but Pinata is only 1-4 this year in day games (5-5 under the lights) and 3-5 on the road.
On a plus note, our last 19 runs scored have been produced without an RBI from Albert.

Has either starter (ours) for the Sunday DH with the Cubs been announced yet? As I understand it, it’s Puppy on Friday and Carp on Sat. Sun ? ?

by the Tewk on Jul 9, 2009 2:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Lohse and Wainwright on Sunday...

Who knows in what order…

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Jul 9, 2009 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dead last against lefthanded pitching...

Shocking. Speaking of, anyone want to venture a guess at today’s lineup against Parra? I’m betting Colby is the only lefty in the lineup, and I’m assuming Yadi gets the day off before the Cubs series. My fearless dive into the mind of a genius:

Ryan SS
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Ludwick RF
Stavinoha LF
Barden 3B
LaRue C
Pineiro P
Hoffpauir 2B

I’m sure it’ll be something close to this, but the bottom line is that it won’t be pretty.

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Jul 9, 2009 3:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe

but I am craving a line-up without Ankiel, Duncan or Thursty

by the Tewk on Jul 9, 2009 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this!

by _pistol_ on Jul 9, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm excited to see hauff in a line up

Hope you’re right! A hit each from Stav, Barden, and Hoff would be an improvement from those respective spots in the order. First time seeing Hoffpauir this week. He’s impressed me with his approach so far. I hope you’re wrong about Yadi though. The guy is hot and with 4 days off coming up (minus a few innings for the All Star catcher) I see know reason to take him out against the 2nd place team.

The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series

by Walking Underwear on Jul 9, 2009 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"no reason"

too early

The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series

by Walking Underwear on Jul 9, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hoffpauir should start every game vs. a LHSP

However, I fear that we’ll get Skippy as the starting second baseman.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Works for me.

I’m starting to question the wisdom of Colby at #2. He gets so many XBHs it’s making it too easy for teams to walk Albert with a base open. Maybe Hoffpauir #2 and Colby 5?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 9, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Walking Albert is a good thing for us.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it is but

I would rather Colby be 4th (vs RHP) or 5th (vs LHP). Mainly because I think he should start stealing bases too, right now I feel he is red lighted on the base paths with Pujols behind him.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Jul 9, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You sound like Al Hrbosky

That’s not a good thing

by mysterui on Jul 9, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn you are good

No Molina day off, but right on the money otherwise. I’ll even give you that if you knew Molina was in there you would have bumped him to sixth and switched Hoffpauir/Barden

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How are we only 5th in OPS from the 9th spot?

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 9, 2009 5:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We have a .591 OPS in the 9 spot and .656 in the 8 spot….figure that one out ;)

The Dodgers have a .597 OPS from the 9 spot, the Padres have a .596 and I only found those randomly (not sure how to get team standings for splits on BR). My only explanation is that if you PH for someone in the 9 slot I think it counts in that split. So other teams PHs are making up for their pitchers over our position player.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Jul 9, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

That’s terrible!

Of course, Tony did bat the pitcher 9th for quite awhile this season. But still – you’d hope our hitters had made up for it.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 9, 2009 9:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Could it be because Thurston spent a lot of time there?

The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series

by Walking Underwear on Jul 9, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I gotta think he's better than the average pitcher

Although I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t :)

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 9, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is

the NL Avg for Pitchers is .359 OPS his OBP is over .300. Problem is, as I pointed out above, I beleive pinch hitting for the pitcher counts towards the 9 slot, double switches would put a player there too. Those players make up enough ground for their pitchers.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Jul 9, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

because we haven't been batting the pitcher 8th as often?

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It really looks like Albert

is doing some sort of dance in that picture.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 9, 2009 8:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he looks awesome

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 9, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yet ridiculous

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 9, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Awesomely Ridiculous

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Jul 9, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ridiculously Awesome

"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols

by cardzfan24 on Jul 9, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Both work -

because Albert is both ridiculous and awesome!

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 9, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just goes to show

that we don’t have much offense other than Albert. If it weren’t for Pujols, we’d be really screwed.

That said, this team is pretty predictable. They can’t hit lefties for crap, they make guys with high ERAs look like Cy Young (a good recent example is Homer Bailey of the Reds), DunKan and AnKiel (pretty self-explanatory), and they struggle against big-name pitchers.

TLR: Please bench DunKan and AnKiel!

by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 9, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A counting stat I'm curious about

We’re below average on the first pitch and yet we’ve put more first pitches in play than any other team in the NL.

I wonder if there is a way to get how many times a club has reached certain counts: 3-2, 2-2, 2-1, 0-2. With Ankiel in our lineup, I have to think that we’d be close to leading the league in 0-2 counts faced as batters.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 9:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think I can figure that out...

…let me dig and I’ll see if it is illuminating. Great idea.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty simple to do, actually:

Via baseball-reference, here

MIL – 596 PAs
CIN – 579 PAs
PIT – 572 PAs
CHC – 569 PAs
STL – 567 PAs

Surprisingly, we have reached 0-2 the fewest times in the division (didn’t parse the entire NL or MLB). Instead of that being a positive, I think its more a reflection of the fact that we put more pitches in play early in the count than anyone in MLB.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder how often we've been 1-0 or 2-0, too.

With our philosophy of hacking at the first pitch and all.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2nd in div. in getting to 2-0, 3rd in getting to 1-0

We are 2nd to last in the NL in P/PA (3.65).

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and, if you take out Pujols

who accounts for 24% of the team’s total walks, we surely drop a lot farther than middle of the pack

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's true

Pujols probably goes 1-0 with great frequency.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Houston?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 9, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who cares about Houston

sorry.

556 PAs @ 0-2

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

just curious. Thanks.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 9, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When is the year going to come when we have to bitch about having 6 teams in the division?

That could really suck. Guess we better enjoy kicking those down

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hate this

its bad enough that the NL has more teams than the AL (making it more likely that Yankee and Red Sox fans are going to boast about making the playoffs), but why can’t Major League Baseball figure this out? Milwaukee back to the AL Central, KC to the AL West. It is so simple.

by Expatcardfan on Jul 9, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

because of the odd number of teams that would be left...

in each league (15 and 15). Requiring that at least two teams be off every night, or play interleague all season. As for me, I think it would be cool to have one roving interleague matchup all season.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 9, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Contraction in the next few years?

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

Toronto comes to mind. That D.C. experiment is well on track to fail for the third time in three tries. It does make one wonder why MLB didn’t just let the Expos die.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Certainly isn't enough talent & revenue

to support 30 ML teams

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe

by gocards62 on Jul 9, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Florida has no biz having two teams

neither does DC. the Jays are in a world of financial hurt. that’s 4 teams off the top of my head that probably shouldn’t still be in existence. give me more time & i can totally figure this out.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jul 9, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like that idea cardzfanbub

and let that be the extent of inter-league play

by ridgesee on Jul 9, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

get rid of the 2 weeks of interleague play mid-season. With 30 teams I would think you could play 165? interleague games/season which I think is 11 per team.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 9, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

just curious:

does anybody know how they came up with a 162 game schedule in the first place? and wasn’t it 156 before that, which seems equally arbitrary?

by Expatcardfan on Jul 9, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no

the old schedule was 154 games

by ridgesee on Jul 9, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

works for me

screw these “interleague weekends”, and just let random matchups happen, now that we’ve broken down the interleague crap.

Or, either add/contract teams, have 28 or 32 teams, and go back to the 2 division/no wildcard format. I really like that idea.

by Expatcardfan on Jul 9, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Add 2 teams

Break each league into 4 divisions of 4 teams. No wild cards.

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Jul 9, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't work

There has to be an even number of teams in each league or else teams have three off nights in a row a few times a year.

So they HAVE figured it out…

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you have to be able to work out the 2 and 4 game serieses

to make it work. i ain’t backing down from this one. as much as i don’t like the 2 and 4 game deals, its a long season. they’re ok

by Expatcardfan on Jul 9, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

baseball-reference

has a nice table Teams Pitches Batting under the advanced team batting tab which shows individual players against league averages. you can sort on the various columns to see who is above/below league average.

One interesting stat was that 18% of the balls that Albert sees are IBB.

by ubeddie on Jul 9, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strauss tweets...

…and the Faberge Egg Propagandists cringe:

Asked about the price tag for Halladay, a club source said: “Give Ricciardi all our minor-league rosters and let him circle any 5 names.”

Link: http://twitter.com/JoeStrauss/status/2543260697

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i would be fine with 1 from each team

or is DJ still AA? then no

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Jul 9, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still can't figure this out

Unless we are just driving up the bidding price to keep Chicago and Milwuakee away. There’s so much speculation about what it would take — the “morans” on the PD board are saying it starts with Wainwright and Rasmus. I just don’t buy that, and not just because it comes from the PD board. However, when I read speculation like this – ANY 5 minor leaguers – I don’t know what to think.

The ONLY way I give up that much talent is if Halladay has agreed to a 2 year extention at the same pay rate. That way, we get more Doc, and although it may make cash flow a bit tight, it can also be used to entice Albert to stay (“We are committed to winning because we have 3 of the game’s best SPs in our rotation”) Is that a stupid idea? I’m not thinking that clearly this morning.

by Ray Lankford on Jul 9, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it starts with Wainwright and Rasmus,

it ends right then and there. That’s the P-D forums being the P-D forums.

Still, “any five prospects” is such a steep price. It would obliterate the system and deprive us of the young, cost-controlled players necessary to extending Albert Pujols.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols is going to extend

with cost control players.

by OperaCard on Jul 9, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I read this like nine times

And I still don’t understand.

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol cause it makes no sense....

by FunkeeC on Jul 9, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cryptic, isn't it?

Reminds some (me included) of WCBW to some extent.

by goodymobb on Jul 9, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Makes sense to me

the team needs cost controlled players to afford Pujols’ next contract.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 9, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

and enough with the Opera/WCBW comparisons. We get it. He/she has to be getting annoyed with that reply every single time. I would.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Thank you, I completely agree

Let the dude’s weirdness stand on its own

by OCCardsFan on Jul 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

That just seemed odd

Because it’s an exact repeat of the last sentence of the post he/she is responding, too.

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I read it as one of those

“Yeah, I agree with you” posts. The merit of those type of posts is questionable for sure, but let’s not take him to task for saying as much in different words.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

101 ESPN

that idea got started on baseball tonight on 101 ESPN monday night when this all started

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Jul 9, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What idea?

Rasmus and Wainwright as the starting point?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Jul 9, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wainwright and Rasmus

would have me switching bird colors mighty fast. What can some 1991 Ozzie baseball coins fetch on eBay?

That’s laughable.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has anyone read

Olney’s article on Halladay? I’m not an ESPN Insider, so I can’t get Inside…

by santiagofish on Jul 9, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nothing we haven't already talked about...

Just that “the price tag is going to hurt” and a re-post of what Joe Strauss said about any 5 guys.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One interesting note, though:

Mark Mulder, the veteran left-hander pitcher who has spent the last eight months working on his flexibility and his mechanics, has informed his agent, Gregg Clifton, that he feels like he’s 95 percent of the way back and will be ready to audition for scouts in the next week to ten days. Mulder’s goal is to be pitching in the big leagues quickly. “He feels that strong right now,” said Clifton. Mulder last pitched in a big league game almost a year ago to the day — July 9, 2009. He has a career record of 103-60, with a 4.18 ERA, and started the All-Star Game for the AL in 2003.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"95 percent of the way back..."

Haven’t we heard something in that spirit before?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oleny has a man-crush on Mulder

All year long, even since last winter, Buster Olney has talked about how Mark Mulder is the biggest bargain out there and will be ready to pitch ASAP.

Olney seems to be trying to save face at this point, and he’s just working as a hype machine for Gregg Clifton who will always say that Mulder is big league ready just to draw attention to his client.

by salukihoops on Jul 9, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, mulder's now declared

Himself ready three (four?) Times in the last year. Each time olney’s been there to say what a great chance it is. Olney was also telling us earlier in the year that tom gordon and eric gagne could be great investments iirc.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I like Buster but ....

sometimes I wonder if he isn’t having fever induced hallucinations

by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 9, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"When Mulder comes back from his injury, that'll be like trading for an ace starter"

by Ray Lankford on Jul 9, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you know Ray

it really isn’t!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 9, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fine, but "We kept payroll down so that we have flexibility to add during the season -- keeping the powder dry"

by Ray Lankford on Jul 9, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you know Ray

we really did!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 9, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, "that's because we are committed to putting a competitive team on the field - one that's going to go out there and compete."

by Ray Lankford on Jul 10, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kind of wish Mulder would just hang it up

I feel sort of bad for him at this point…the guy clearly WANTS to come back and has worked his butt off to get there, but I really don’t think it’s happening. The guy’s shoulder has to look like a bird’s nest post-hurricane.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is a disturbing analogy to say the least

None the less true tho

by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 9, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Descalso and Wallace vs. Lefties

Wallace this season vs. LH: .943 OPS
Descalso this season vs. LH: .899 OPS

I know I brought up calling up Wallace and Descalso yesterday, but today’s post made me curious about there splits vs. lefties, and they look pretty decent, granted in just under 100 PA for both players.

They both were born within a couple months of Colby’s birthdate, so they’re not extremely young (all 3 players will be 23 by the end of October).

Their MLE OPS’s are in the .675 range, and they seem to be the type of professional hitters who could muster a .700 OPS at the ML level, which would be an upgrade over what we currently have in LF and 3B. By the way, Wallace’s MLE OPS over the last 28 days is .799.

Then when you shift Schu back to LF, put Descalso at 2B, and Wallace at 3B, you upgrade the defense at 2 of these 3 positions.

I know that this starts their arb clocks, and neither are on the 40-man. But if you want to put the best team on the field, without giving up the farm in trade, and surround Albert in a prime year with bats that are at least competent, this is the move I’d make.

by pitchingandefense on Jul 9, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting Idea

But, I don’t see it happening. First-place teams don’t call up well-performing prospects, install them everyday, and stick with them through struggles. (I recognize that they would, at a minimum be as good offensively as any of Ankiel, Duncan, and Thurston.) There’s an aversion to doing that, for whatever reason, and I’m certain TLR would not stand for it.

Also, their splits vs. LHP for this year aren’t very large samples, so they may or may not be indicative of their true talent level. I believe that Wallace is still figuring out AAA pitching and Descalso has just wet his Future Redbird beak in the waters of AAA; so, let them play out the summer in AAA. I think it is in the organization’s interest to let each finish out the year in Memphis and then see what they have next Spring, allowing them to compete for a spot on the roster.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 9, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see it happening either

But I think this would be the best lineup the organization could produce right now.

Given the fact that we’ve got black holes in the lineup while Albert and now Raz carry this team, we are a strange contending club that is in first despite no production from 3B and LF. If we are sticking with these players through their struggles, then sticking with two upside rookies through their struggles wouldn’t seem too bad, especially when it upgrades the D in LF and 2B.

I agree that the samples vs. LH are small, I just found them interesting and intriguing. Also, at his age I think Descalso capable of making the jump from AA to ML. It’s been done before.

My favorite idea is to trade for Dunn. But the Natinals have said they’re going to keep him, rather than flip him for some young, cost-controlled players. That is a well run organization.

by pitchingandefense on Jul 9, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a little off your topic but something Ive been confused about

Many have talked about Wallace’s defense as a road block to him playing 3b in the bigs. Yet everytime you hear or read a response from Wallace, he sounds very confident about his defense. I just keep wondering who’s right. I’ve really never gotten a chance to see for myself. Meanwhile, the majority of his playing time in AAA has been at third. My point is, if he is a servicable glove at the hot corner, then it just seems like a stubborn respect for seniority on the part of management that he’s not given a chance to show what he can do. The fact that he’s the same age as Colby and has shown the ability to rake everywhere seems to lend credibbility to his desire to play, and many other’s desire to see him called up.

The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series

by Walking Underwear on Jul 9, 2009 11:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Most players are confident.

See: Ankiel, Rick. He might be more cocky than confident, though.

I think Wallace’s 3B-play won’t be as bad as Duncan’s in LF, but will still be below average. If he’s a beast with the bat, it should make up for it.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 9, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would tell you my addiction to the Cardinals and VeB has no impact on my work performance

Peers and superiors might not agree

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

after reading my own comment I'd like to ammend a little

I should say it WOULD seem like a stubborn respect for seniority IF 3b continues to be a whole in the lineup AND he’s not given an opportunity.

The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series

by Walking Underwear on Jul 9, 2009 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

How much worse than Thurston can he be?

I know Thursty is being played out of position, but how much worse can Wallace be? And by calling up both Wallace and Descalso, and putting Schu in LF, you’ve got your entire lineup playing their natural positions. Wallace would then be your only negative defender, helping the pitchers. And Barden could replace Wallace in the late innings if his defense is truly bad.

by pitchingandefense on Jul 9, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All the people "in the know"

say Wallace is fine at 3b. His reaction time is excellent, and he has a great arm. He just lacks in the range department. His minor league coaches seem to say that he is getting better every day and he has lost about 15 pounds.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What player is going to come out and say "I suck at my job?"

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I could imagine Zack Greinke saying that randomly, in so many words.

The guy is a quote gold mine.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 9, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

orlando cabrera

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 9, 2009 12:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

we should hold them in AAA ball until they're at least 30

that gives us a solid 7 years until the arbitration clock starts. then, once their skills start declining, we’ll be able to sign them to long term contracts at age 34.

by Expatcardfan on Jul 9, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

watching "Baseball Wives"

On E! since I happen to be at home today. I’m laughing at the “fans can be sucky” section because the examples are Philly and NYC.

Feeling like a big voyeur. Sweet!

Ashley Eckstein on, either way.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 9, 2009 10:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i like the new mobile posting

i think i have an idea for a t shirt for viva. get nine pictures of cardinals with different facial hairs and put them in a tic tac formation. than do some pop art colors with them. the only problem is finding good pics to start with.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 9, 2009 11:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

I definitely think its time for a new VEB shirt

there was talk awhile ago of soliciting designs and holding a derby, but it never materialized (I even worked a little on a design before I discovered I suck at design software). Anyway, I’d definitely buy one if it turned out better than the current VEB shirt.

by mattyp on Jul 9, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I tried to start a contest

I think it didn’t materialize because lboros was super-busy at the time and nobody else really wanted to grab the reins.

I’d still buy a VEB shirt, though. I just need a good one to buy.

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd enter the contest

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe we should take it up with the boss men, then

HEY BOSS MEN! What do you think about having a t-shirt contest?

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The biggest factor with the offense is whether they are trailing

Tied or with the lead (and this is including last night’s game, which was the most atypical of the year), the team averages 0.60 runs an inning, above league average (275 runs scored in 458 innings).

Trailing, the team averages, the team averages 0.36 runs an inning, last in all of baseball (106 runs scored in 297 innings).

In addition, the difference (or drop-off) between the run production batting when tied/winning and trailing is the largest in the league.

Last night’s game was unusual in that it was the first time the Cardinals made up a deficit of any kind (in this case, a 1-0 Milwaukee lead) only to lose the game. Plus, they scored 4 runs in the 3 innings they started down a run. Unfortunately, one of those innings was the 9th.

by olddomination on Jul 9, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

While I agree that we have had some major suckitude when trailing..

There is some selection bias here. We are more likely to be behind when the opposing team and pitcher is better than (or outperforming) us, thus we are less likely to score runs. On the flip side, we are likely to be leading or tied against worse teams and pitchers, making it easier to score runs.

It is concerning that once we are down we are nearly always out, but at least a portion of that can be explained by merely getting consistently beat by better foes and taking care of business lesser competition.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's true for the rest of the league as well . . .

Selection bias could explain the absolute differences, but it wouldn’t account for the difference in ranks.

I wonder how much of it could be explained by our ineptitude against lefties (a case where the selection bias might affect the cardinals more strongly than other teams).

by brackenthebox on Jul 9, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It could account for some of the difference in ranks

because schedules aren’t balanced. I guess that is what I was trying to get at here in less than clear terms:

portion of that can be explained by merely getting consistently beat (sic) by better foes and taking care of business (against) lesser competition

This is just a hypothesis – our SoS is actually below league average. Still, SoS doesn’t account for batters’ quality of pitchers faced.

Even considering all of this bias in that sample, it is pretty clear that we can’t muster anything from behind. TWSS.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to do it.

That’s what she said.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 9, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we can’t muster anything from behind. TWSS.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I have to do it."

TWSS?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 9, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree. the facts are obviously right

But the rationale may not be.anybody run a lhp v. Rhp split on those results?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

My mistake

It was the SECOND time all year the Cardinals made up a deficit only to lose. They did it in San Francisco, also making up a 1-0 deficit only to lose a 3-1 lead.

by olddomination on Jul 9, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did anyone notice

Rasmus leaning way out on his right side and then swaying back for the swing? A Hal McRae timing mechanism? Say it ain’t so!!!

I have a small quibble with Motte. Son you have two outs and two strikes, stop the show for a minute and do your job. Larry and Mo will wait.
Colby’s preparation to take an at bat against Hoffman, whats that about?
With the count 3 and 1, Duncan would start a swing against a garbage truck if you backed one in.
Trevor Hoffman has a 20/25 mph effective speed range. As wide as anyone. He won’t let you time him. He is also unlikely to throw a strike unless you make him. Can someone just stroke a single?

by OperaCard on Jul 9, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Watching birds?

I don’t suppose you could be a little more, um, specific?

Oh and by the way, Hoffman does not have a 20/25 MPH speed range. His FBs are about 85-7 and his CUs are about 72-5. He also flips in a slider here and there at about 80ish. Unlikely to throw a strike? So you’re saying that a great professional pitcher can’t or doesn’t throw strikes and has only survived this long by getting guys to chase? That doesn’t make any logical sense.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What way is the 8206?

by OperaCard on Jul 9, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I confess...I have no idea what this means

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I normally like OC comments

but this time I even tried to google it to figure it out, and i got some political mumbo jumbo and “Fluorescence microscopy with diffraction resolution barrier broken by stimulated emission”

I may have never been more confused on VEB

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 9, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We loaded the bases against one of the better closers in the nl. That’s pretty good. And duncan gets a lot of walks for a guy who will swing at anything on 3-1.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 9, 2009 12:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Thats

because Tony is putting on the take sign at 3/2 half the time. Not many people walk after swinging at a 55 footer at 3/1 Tom. It usually means they’re pitch around you when you see that pitch. The number of times Duncan has got involved 3/1 on a bad pitch only to get doubled up or ground out on a pitch off the plate 3/2 gives me a queasy feeling.

by OperaCard on Jul 9, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is wrong.

in 13 PA’s that ended on the 3-1 pitch, duncan has 4 hits and 5 walks, giving him an almost .700 OBP on that single pitch.

in 24 PA’s where he ran the count up to 3-1 at at least one point, he has six hits and nine walks. he gets on base 2 out of every three times in all PA’s where the count runs to 3-1. he has only struck out once after the count goes to 3-1 this year.

now these are ridiculously small sample sizes, but that was your premise. your premise was wrong. by a lot.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 9, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

rec'd for proper usage of "a lot"

too much of an asshole?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 9, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

might not make logical sense

but I agree with OperaCard somewhat. Hitters should not be having the trouble with Hoffman that they are having. They do not make him throw strikes. He doesn’t throw that many strikes and most hitters get themselves out against him. His pitches doesn’t have much movement on them and he relies strickly on messing on a hitters timing.

On a night when he’s got pinpoint control, he can be effective, but last night he didn’t and the Cards got themselves out. Ryan’s bat was pitiful. Hoffman was off a little and he should have been beaten.

by ridgesee on Jul 9, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

His changeup drops

The reason people chase his changeup out of the zone is that it looks like a fastball in the bottom of the zone and then disappears. So it’s not just timing, it’s also location.

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His pitches don't have movement on them?

His changeup falls from the sky like the Kazakhstani air force trying to attack NORAD. He has an 80 changeup and has been doing the 86 mph rising cutter thing since at least 2002. For someone who hasn’t seen that before, it’s going to be nearly impossible to adjust to how unique he is. Did they take good at bats? Not so much, but that’s what Hoffman makes everyone do, not just the Cardinals.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 9, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good one Joker!!!

The point is, you beat him by taking what he is giving, not what you think your manly appetites require.

Did you notice Council just staring out at Motte’s histrionics. Wish we had that player in Red.

by OperaCard on Jul 9, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lineup

SS Brendan Ryan

CF Colby Rasmus

1B Albert Pujols

RF Ryan Ludwick

LF Nick Stavinoha

C Yadier Molina

2B Jarrett Hoffpauir

P Joel Pineiro

3B Brian Barden

No complaints from my perspective.

by OCCardsFan on Jul 9, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Duncan/Ankiel/Thurston free praise baby J

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 9, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

...until the 7th when Thurston becomes a defensive replacement in LF

and Duncan PHs for Rasmus

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

shudder

SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426

by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 9, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

man i miss joe mather

he’d look really good batting 5th playing left field in this lineup methinks

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 9, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

man i miss ~~joe mather~~ scott rolen

he’d look really good batting in the 5th playing ~~left field~~ 3B in this lineup methinks

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Wonder what Ricciardi will take for Rolen

Heard Steve Phillips (ugh!) on ESPN radio last night—said Jays GM is looking for prospects, esp. SP because they can’t afford FA pitching market.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe

by gocards62 on Jul 9, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard he would take TLR

and a b prospect

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 9, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and yes

I will rec this kind of comment every freakin time

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 9, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I miss DeRosa

And his insanely high OPS against lefties like Manny Parra.

Mark of Rose, we hardly knew ye!

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If his change up falls from the sky

like a Kazakhstani attack on Norad I believe I could see that and I can’t. I have watched him a lot this year and like I said, I can’t see much movement on his pitches. His pitches that are down to me look strait down from the time they leave his hand; not the bid dip you describe. However people see things differently. I was just saying for some reason I’m seeing much of what OperCard is seeing.

by ridgesee on Jul 9, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

pitch f/x can solve this for us

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorta

His changeup “rises” 6 inches less than his fastball at 11 mph different with perfect arm speed and similar spin. I would say my description is accurate.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 9, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

From what I saw last night...

his CU definitely died at the plate, Rhabosky compared it to Sutter’s splitter back in the day…falling out of the zone at the last minute.

Somehow I am sure I spelled both names wrong…but that’s all I’ve got.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 9, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not that the change breaks

It’s that it just doesn’t stay up like the fastball. It’s slower, so it falls more. But since he throws it with almost exactly the same release and spin, it’s damn near impossible to pick up the difference, and you find yourself swinging at what you thought was a fastball that you thought would be six inches higher than where it actually is.

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you can't see the movement on his changeup than you simply aren't watching

That changeup is one of the very best pitches in the history of baseball and it’s not surprising to me that people get fooled on it…he hides it brilliantly with his delivery and it drops like a brick.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome article ChuckB

thoroughly enjoyed the breakdown… on an off note, I’m pretty excited about Jarrett Hoffpauir so far… he’s already got some big hits and he has hardly played at the ML level yet

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How can Rhabosky

tell what his pitches is doing when he is in a booth 30 feet above the playing field. I will say this though, I can only see the pitches going and the hitter sees it coming, so obviously he sees something deceptive that i can’t see from TV.

Also since you mentioned Sutter, I watched his for years and he mystified me a little also by getting hitters out without throwing strikes. So who knows.

by ridgesee on Jul 9, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

reply fail x3

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next time you watch Hoffman

Try to guess fastball/changeup when it comes out of his hand which is basically what batters have to do. Not to toot my own horn but I’m usually pretty good at this, it’s just about impossible with him.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 9, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now that has to be the key joker

but to say that he has all this great movement that some are saying is bullshit. I do remember when he has a good fastball with movement , but I am not talking about the old Hoffman. He’is still tricky I know but I still say when he is not on top of his control, batters should not be letting him beat them.

by ridgesee on Jul 9, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because the changeup

is slower than the fastball, it drops. It has less vertical rise.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 9, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And still

Yes his changeup has great movement. And his fastball has unique movement.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 9, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know they have TV up there, right?

by sdrone on Jul 9, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I know he has tv up there

a 12 inch monitor. I have wide big screen, how about you

by ridgesee on Jul 9, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it impossible

to conceive that Hrabosky may have watched additional footage of Hoffman? Or watched him pre-game?

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 9, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

inconceivable.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 9, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

You're right.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 9, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Hr

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

may have been said

but when colby took that 85mph 2-0 fastball right down the middle against hoffman, i knew the game was over

Turning point in the inning, and therefore the game

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 9, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The turning point in the game

was when Wellemeyer went back out to pitch the 4th inning.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

The turning point in the game

was when Wellemeyer went ~~back~~ out to pitch ~~the 4th inning~~.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

you've been edited

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So why not call up Boggs?

or give Hawksworth the 5th SP spot?

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe

by gocards62 on Jul 9, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

at this point

I’d much rather have Boggs than Welley, unless he’s been struggling mightily

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same reason we didn't when Mulder and Kip Wells were ineffective

by DriverZn on Jul 9, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well those guys are shit...

…but these young’un whippersnappers might pitch worse and make everything fall apart!

/sarcasm

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

FEAR NOT!

Lohse has returned to save us all with competent pitching.

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well yea

but we still had a legit chance until that taken strike…it physically hurt me to watch that

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 9, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone have a lead on a place to watch the game online?

I will not only rec your post, but I pay you thirty internet dollars for this information.

by mojowo11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

in the fanshots section

someone posted something about a free mlb.tv trial, not sure if it’s legit or not

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's legit...

..but its for a specific week later in the month

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh

Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they try to ride the tide of interest that the ASG creates

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 9, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bah

first game this year with no Thurston, Duncan, or Ankiel (iirc) and I can’t watch. You have no idea how happy it would’ve made me to be able to watch a game without having to suffer, and curse, and throw shit through their at bats.

by mattyp on Jul 9, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs