Wrist injuries (we've earned this)
Instead of writing about any of the good suggestions I got, I'm going to post on something that actually worries me this time. As of this writing we've got two starters (Boog and Dero) and one guy who was slated to be a starter (Mather) all with some degree of wrist injury. I'll try to avoid the cliches (I think we all have heard a wrist injury saps a player's power for a pretty long time).
The wrist is made up of the distal ends of the bones of the forearm and eight carpal bones. It's encased in a series of ligaments that form a layer of connective tissue wrapping around the wrist, along with a series of ligaments that connect the carpal bones to one another. The ligaments really do most of the work, and this allows for a huge range of motion.
Wrist injuries come in a few main types. Bone fractures are breaks in the bones that make up the wrist. Sprains are injuries to the ligamentous sheath of the wrist (usually an incomplete or complete tear). Strains are injuries to the muscles, however since the primary muscles are further up the forearm, there aren't really any common wrist strains.
A broken wrist usually means one of a few specific bones. The most common fracture is to the distal forearm.
Depending on the exact nature of the fracture, the distal forearm fracture is actually the best wrist break to have. This is because it's actually an arm bone that is broken, and it often heals just fine and in a relatively short amount of time with a caste. More severe forearm fractures require some form of fixation either a plate and screws attached directly to the bone itself or an external fixator. Evan Longoria had a similar fracture (pictured above is a Colles radius fracture, his was a fracture of the tip of the ulna, even less serious) late last season and he was back in time for the playoffs. Yadier Molina probably had a similar injury in 2007 when his wrist was broken by a foul ball.
More significant problems arise when you break bones in the jumbled bunch (the carpals) above the forearm. These bones are tightly connected to one another, and a break rarely occurs without some amount of displacement. Pain during movement is what limits players' power and it can last for a long time after the original break.
via www.ucgc.org
(The first metacarpal is the base of the thumb, the tip of the ulna is that bump on the outside of your wrist)
This is is exactly what happened to Joe Mather, who broke the hamate bone of his wrist in 2008 and had surgery to remove it (probably the whole bone). Apparently this surgery didn't do the trick as he had a second less specific wrist surgery to end his 2009 season. The removal of a broken wrist bone is necessary in some cases to avoid complications resulting from the lack of blood supply to the carpal bones. Even if this isn't the case, the bones usually take longer than normal to heal because of this lack. Mather's wrist is scary because of the lingering nature of his problems. For all we know he could have nerve damage or necrosis.
Wrist sprains occur in any of the four main ligaments that form the sheath of the wrist (one is on top, one bottom, and one on either side), or in one of a number of smaller ligaments that stabilize the joint. They are just like other sprains and are treated with wraps and time.
As an aside, Brendan Ryan hand a cortisone injection in his wrist. Cortisone is a corticosteroid that suppresses the immune system and is used to combat inflammation (a painful immune response). I really can't find any information on Ryan's reputed history of wrist problems, but cortisone doesn't exactly cure anything, so depending on if this is arthritic or ligamentous, it could easily crop up again.
Mark DeRosa strained a tendon in his wrist (tendons connect muscle to bone, ligaments connect bones to other bones), and has not played in just under a week. This injury is probably of a lingering nature as even the day after the trade (June 28) he had his left wrist heavily taped.
In any case it's probably nothing too scary and should be fine in a few days.
9 recs |
93 comments
Comments
Good post!
Nice overview of the more common wrist injuries. I see a number of these types of injuries weekly in my practice and you’ve pretty much nailed it. Usually nothing serious if it’s just a sprain/strain, though, as you pointed out, those can hang around for weeks or months. Anyway, just thought I’d offer my take on a well-written post. I’m definitely not an orthopedic surgeon, but have always been interested in orthopedics; especially sports medicine. Good job on the xrays, too. Go Cards! and hurry back DeRosa!
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 6, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you a health care professional
I’m just wondering…this is a great article by the way
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 6, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I used to be a Rad-Tech, so x-ray films are my specialty,
now I’m going to school to eventually become an actual doctor.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 6, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ptsh
“doctor” – wtf is that?
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 6, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Luck!
and go into Radiology. Or Ophthalmology. Or Dermatology. Or basically anything but Primary care or ER.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 6, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But don't you want to be like the Doctors on ER?
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 7, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if they'd pay me as well as George Clooney.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 7, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For you basketball fans out there
a break of a carpal is similar to what is going on with Yao ming right now…he has repeatedly broken a tarsal(foot’s version of the carpals)(he broke his navicular)twice now and this last time it is not healing well…lots of pressure on these bones for basketball players, just as there is a lot of pressure on the carpals for batters…this is why a carpal fracture can be such a devastating injury for a hitter, it may never heal properly and it saps the active stability(the ability to stabilize hand and allow it to have a large range of motion)
derek lee fractured his distal radius and ulna, and it could be said that he hasn’t been the same since…this is why i am worried about joe mather, but not about boog and derosa…wrist fractures can really sap a players power and often the effects linger
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 6, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, "foot injury" gets thrown out for a ton of different problems,
from plantar fascitis to stress fracturing. It’s basically the same way that “wrist injury” gets thrown around.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 6, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2009: The Year of the Wrist
Much like 2006 was The Year of the Oblique (which, before then, I had never heard of).
Great article by the way. Let’s hope that Ryan, DeRo and Mather all come back healthy.
TLR: Please start Colby!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great stuff hazel
but this is the Cards medical staff who’s handling all these injuries. i don’t trust one damn thing they do. they’ve burned us way too many times before. i wouldn’t be shocked at all if DeRo ends up coming back too soon, then requiring surgery to fix whatever is wrong with his wrist. it’s happened before & it will happen again till the FO cleans house & gets some real Dr’s in who know what they are doing.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 6, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
more info
as we have talked about before, a strain s/a DeRosa’s is graded on severity from mild(grade1) to moderate(grade 2) to severe(grade 3). The severity is based on the damage done to the structure and thus the time frame for return is affected by the severity of the injury. Grade 1 type injuries typically result in minimal to no lost time. Grade 2’s can be anywhere from 5 days to a couple weeks. Grade 3’s can require anywhere from 3 to 12 weeks or even longer (These are general numbers, time frames for different areas of the body could be different).
Wrist injuries s/a these we are dealing with are typically dealt with as we have seen- rest, ice, and anti-inflammatory drugs s/a ibuprofen. If this approach doesn’t work, the next step is corticosteriod injections with immobilization. And the final step, if all else fails, is surgery.
Where we (Physical Therapists) come in for these types of inflammation is in strengthening the surrounding musculature and helping to eliminate the inflammation. Also, figuring out why Boog (and DeRo is his is recurring) is having a repetitive injury and correcting the impairment is a key in preventing further damage. There are steps that could be taken, beyond just icing, that would help decrease the swelling and hopefully decrease these athletes time away from the game.
Aside- I concur that corticosteroids do not typically heal the pathology. But, that is not the goal of corticosteroids. They are administered to eliminate the inflammation and allow the natural healing process to do its thing. Part of the problem in Boog’s situation is the amount of time required for the condition to resolve after the injection is administered. He should be immobilized for a couple of weeks, not a few days. So, even if the injection is eliminating the inflammation in the joint, he is going right back to doing the activity that is causing the inflammation. Get it? Its a vicious cycle.
Hazel, how far along toward becoming an MD are you? I’m less than a year away from my DPT.
Those of you who warn against becoming a primary care physician- keep on the lookout for Direct Access to physical therapy. If it ever fully comes, you can skip going to a Dr and being diagnosed with “knee pain” and go straight to a PT who can actually help you. I would suggest that you contact your congressman about this, but, there are site rules against such things ;)
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 6, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
scoot, i feel like we have had this conversation before
i’m also less than a year away from my DPT…in fact i started my last semester of classes today(done with class forever Oct. 7th)
and yay direct access
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 6, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we have discussed before
I’m on a clinical right now in fayetteville, nc. Got 2 more weeks here, then a semester of class and I am done with class forever (except CE). How much clinical experience do you have? For me, that has been where all the real learning comes in – theres only so much you can learn in the classroom
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 6, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
10 weeks total so far
24 more weeks to go starting in october
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 6, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
8 last summer
8 more this summer, of which this week is the 7th.
18 more starting in January for me.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 13, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never heard of direct access.
Sounds like an idea with merit. Does it have any effect on scope of practice? How does it work? Whose idea is it?
I’m doing post-bac science work to get into med school (my undergrad degree is in Literature), but luckily my scholarship is still working.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 6, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A patient can walk directly into a PT clinic if they have a musculoskeletal problem without referal
PT does an eval and makes a diagnosis based on their clinical findings, and then treat from there
If the PT finds something that requires the attention of a physician(disease process, findings that don’t match up with musculoskeltal problems) then they refer to the appropriate M.D
Its basically the american physical therapy association that is pushing it because lets face it, it is good for the PT profession…but it is also allows for efficient and effective patient care and causes patients to not have to go to the doctor when they have a shoulder pain…the doc more than likely will send them to a PT…Direct access saves a step and a saves the patient money
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 6, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
what he said pretty much covers it.
Shame that few people know about it. Most states have some form of direct access currently, however it is not the form that the APTA is pushing for. For instance, I am in North Carolina right now and the direct access here is, a patient can walk in off the street and get an initial evaluation, which they pay for out of their own pocket. If the PT determines that they would benefit from PT, he has to send them to a Dr to get a script for treatment. That form of direct access doesn’t really get the intended results of saving the patient the expense of a trip to the Dr. In fact, it is more expensive as they have to pay for the initial out of pocket instead of the insurance company covering it.
My recommendation to you, since you are going to be a physician, is be aware of the laws wherever you are practicing, and perhaps you can help out your patients and us PTs by educating them on direct access.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 6, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can the PT order other diagnostics, XR, CT, MRI, etc.?
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 6, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope
have to rely on special tests to diagnose. Hopefully one day we will progress to being able to order that stuff. We have to take diagnostic imaging in school and let me tell you, we see tons of patients that have had a wasted X-ray because the MD just wanted to make sure nothing was broke. A lot of them would have benefitted a lot more from an MRI. There are criteria in place (Ottawa Ankle rules, Ottawa knee rules, etc.) that, if a pt meets those criteria, they would be immediately referred back to the physician for X-ray/MRI.
Currently the only PT’s that I am aware of that are able to order diagnostic imaging are military PT’s. They can also prescribe some basic NSAIDs. Of course, they have to justify all that they do to grumpy military people, so that limits some of what they do.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 6, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Superfluous imaging is a real problem.
It happens all the time in every radiology department that I’ve been through. It’s not entirely MD’s either. I know back in high school I tore up my ankle and I went to the doctor to get an X-ray, and I was going to get it because my foot was f’ing killing me. Sometimes patients really want to get X-rayed despite the obvious needlessness of the exams and the risks. If people knew what they were doing they’d give it a rest.
It’s getting worse now because CT’s of exams get ordered rather than plain films for liability reasons, never mind the exponentially higher radiation doses.
Has anyone seen my soapbox?
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(I think you're standing on it.)
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 7, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many times, too, insurance companies have some blame.
I’ve had several times I wanted to order a CT or MRI on a patient that I knew didn’t have a fracture and thus did not need plain xrays. But, the insurance companies required me to order plain films before they would authorize the CT/MRI. It’s pretty ridiculous at times.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, so true.
Shoulder injuries are the stupidest- the indications are so much different between strains and breaks and dislocations, yet no one gets an MRI without getting radiated first for insurance purposes.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to further drive home your point about unneccessary images
and what is wrong with our health care system. Saw a medicaid pt today that we had been treating for about a month for knee pain. She hasn’t had knee pain for the last month. Special tests show she has no structural problems with her knee. However, she reported that the Doctor sent her for an MRI yesterday of her knee. We discharged her from therapy because she has met all of her goals and has restored function. But, thanks to this Dr, a completely unneccessary $1500 plus diagnostic test was performed at the expense of the taxpayers.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 11, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haz, scoot & vols
Thanks for the info about wrists.
Regarding PT and direct access, I work as a Fraud Investigator for a large health insurer. I believe Direct Access is ane efficient path to treatment and legitimate way to control costs. The Licensed PT’s I meet seem to be very good and very goal-oriented, which can lead to dramatic improvements in patient health.
What you may not have observed in clinical rotations is the proliferation of non-PT’s doing PT work. Many Chiropractors and Podiatrists are “enhancing” their practices by hiring PT assistants and other semi-pros to do massage, excercises, elecrical stim etc. Frequently, the only PT plan is to maximize reimbursement, with patients returning for months or years without discharge.
The APTA might do well to address these abuses of the name of PT, as patients get the idea that PT doesn’t work, and payers become distrustful of the billers of PT.
Sorry to be a cloud- my job can sometimes bring out the cynic. Best of luck in your careers, and thanks again for the info.
by baked mcbride on Jul 7, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chiropractic really needs to clean house,
not that all of them are quacks (just many), but there is some real nonsense that goes on.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
billion
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was almost a chiropractor
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 7, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can go a couple of ways with this
the civil way: “I’m glad you chose to go a different direction.”
the smart ass way: “that explains a lot!”
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
neither one is wrong
i really almost was one. my family pushed hard for it to happen, even offering to pay for college. of course that’s the only college they would pay for. we have been lucky to find a few really good ones that aren’t quacks. and two of them offered to sponsor me once i graduated.
but my fear of germs & touching other people simply wouldn’t allow it. the thought of adjusting someone who hasn’t had a shower seriously makes me ill.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 7, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you got issues, brah
4B - beer baseball bands blog
DeRosa>MB
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i feel for my shrink, i really do
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 7, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry to hear that
your fears may be well founded though. . . I’ve had some smelly patients.
There’s even a guy in my class that smells like he has never even heard of this invention they call “deodorant.”
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh, i think i'm better off
people are nasty. they really are. i don’t know how so many of can walk around all dirty & greasy.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 7, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd just like to offer my condolences as well.
Sometimes I wish my parents had given me a bit more structure, but that’s definitely too much of a sometimes good thing.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 8, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why are you all sorry for me?
what am i missing?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 9, 2009 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I invented the philly cheesestek pizza.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 7, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good pie
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 7, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for that
and any PTA who may claim to be a PT and treat without a PT first performing an eval is at risk for losing their license and their livelihood(IMHO, they should). What some chiropractors do is somewhat close to a portion of what PT’s offer. But, the whole foundation of that practice is questionable at best. But, I digress, before I step on any toes.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea that is unadulterated BS
IF the APTA found out…all hell would break loose on them and the chiros allowing it to happen
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 7, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs/Braves fan checking in...
DeRo has taped his left wrist since his days with the Braves. (IIRC, at one time he did both, but now just does the left.) I don’t think it has anything to do with a wrist injury while swinging the bat (he says this is the first time it has ever happened to him). It is more likely just protection against grounders taking bad hops and hitting him in the wrist. Either that, or he just wants a remnant of his football days. :-)
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jul 6, 2009 8:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're probably the authority.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 6, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one query
isn’t a fractured scaphoid the most common wrist fracture (not the distal forearm)? I only know this because I did mine playing volleyball a few years ago…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2009 6:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Partially true.
Hamate fractures in the general population are very rare (I think it’s 2% of all wrist fractures), but in baseball the bat rocks against the hamate during the swing, and the hamate is vulnerable to foul balls and HBPs, so among baseball players the hamate probably rivals the scaphoid (this is really beside the point).
The Colles fracture and other forearm fractures are more common than scaphoid or other carpal bone fractures (by far), but they aren’t considered “wrist fractures” because anatomically they are breaks of the forearm. If you pointed to the pain, most people would consider that your wrist, but anatomically a wrist fracture occurs to one of the carpal bones.
Here’s some info on that, but you can see from the first line that she makes it clear that by wrist she means “carpals”.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
you may be right. Scaphoid fractures can also be missed on film early on. Tenderness in the “anatomical snuff box” is often a sign of scaphoid fracture.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anatomic snuff box
has always been one of my favorite anatomy terms for some reason.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 7, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite has always been the Xiphoid Process.
Ever since first grade when I thought it was something from Star Trek.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fun with anatomy
and the carpals~ Some Lovers Try Positions That They Can’t Handle!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or So Long To Pinky, Here Comes The Thumb...
My favorite acronym is probably the one with the cranial nerves. But I won’t go there.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Jul 12, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ours was
Stop Letting Tom Petty Talk To Caucasian Hookers.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm guessing that acronym doesn't make it in any anat/phys books.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
post-call scrambled thoughts.
since last time I have graduated medical school and am now a bonefide orthopedic surgery resident. I can weigh in on more of this later but quick hits as follows:
- our health care system certainly has lots of issues and tons of stuff gets done simply to cover yourself liability-wise in our fine litiginous society
- distal forearm fractures (radius, ulna, “Colles”, etc) really are not difficult to heal/fix or rehab from compared to “wrist” (carpal bones) or ligamentous injury… can be way worse
- scaphoid (one of the carpals and a comparable to Mather’s hamate) is classically a really hard one to get over because the blood supply to the bone is very tenuous. for the bone to heal it needs good nutrition, flow, etc, and if you’re unlucky enough to break it at this “watershed” area than you’re faced with some hard decisions.
- If you decide to treat it “conservatively” you immobilize the joint for a prolonged period and get serial radiology exams and you keep your fingers crossed that things start fusing back together. This healing process can either go to “union” (hooray – good as new), “malunion” (didn’t heal in the right position), or “nonunion” (didn’t heal, isn’t going to heal. This typically means you’ve got at minimum a layer almost of dead or devitalized bone abutting another dead or devitalized layer… causing persistent pain/dysfunction/disability).
- Sometimes a player will opt for foregoing the “maybe this will heal on it’s own” phase and go straight to the OR where they will try to roughen up the edges and oppose them more precisely, helping generate better blood flow and then often fixing them back together with a screw that (hopefully) can remain. When Hazel talked about having to remove part of the bone that could either be that that bony portion is dead (infection risk, arthritis risk) or it could have failed either conservative therapy or an initial surgery. sometimes they heal but the screw causes too much discomfort or biomechanical dysruption on its own. One would not have to remove the bone to restore blood to the surrounding area though.
- ligamentous injuries are scary in the wrist. count me as being very concerned regarding our guys trying to play through these injuries. one swing can undo a lot of healing time.
This is not coming out in any sort of coherent progression. I’ll try to weigh in on specific questions later.
by ribbij on Jul 7, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I broke my scaph about 8 years ago
My right wrist is still a bit weak when it comes to being bent backwards. I have to wear a strap round it when playing volleyball as it can’t take much pressure without it being painful (for a while last year after a blocked a hard ball I couldn’t do press-ups on a flat hand either). It’s fine day to day but if I take a hard-hit ball on it without a wrist strap on it can really hurt for a while. I expect I’ll probably have this problem for a few years yet…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How aggressive was your PT regimen?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 8, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's a PT regimen?
if you mean physical training, I go to the gym about 3 or 4 times a week, play or train volleyball maybe 2-3 time a week tops. I play at a decent level by UK standards (3rd division of the national league) but I supsect it would be only very low level college standard in the US. I do all sorts in the gym – bit of cycling, bit of rowing, bit of lifting (not a lot of weight really as I’m v skinny), bit of resistance stuff.
If you mean physical therapy, I never had any. I went to the hospital about 3 or 4 days (!) after I broke my scaph (I thought I’d just badly sprained it at first, stupidly, even though I heard a crack after I fell – I even carried on playing on it for about 30 mins after). I got a cast on my arm for a couple of months and then went back and they took it off. End of story, really.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2009 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and how is it now?
Can you move it as/ comparably well to your other hand? Are your forearms about the same size?
If you continue to have pain, you may want to ask your Dr to refer you to a PT so that you don’t, in your words “have this problem for a few years”
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 9, 2009 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what do you make of Derosa going on the DL?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
DeRosa>MB
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'd rather him go now (retractive to last week)
and just get him back for the start of the second half. I still think that we are still going to be well within contention regardless of what happens in milwaukee and chicago. Barring a complete meltdown (i.e. 0-7 in the next 7 games) we should be in decent shape to hang around for the rest of the season.
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 7, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
If the initial reports were true- that this is a strain, then he’s probably going to need an additional good week of resting it. The DL stint is retroactive, so that’s two weeks plus the ASB which should be enough for a strain. If it’s more serious or something other than initially reported it could be longer- you’re looking at a Kyle Lohse recovery time minus all the pitching rehab as the next step up in seriousness. There’s really very little to go on, and it’s impossible to tell if they’re just being cautious or if their evaluation has turned up something new (or if this was the plan all along). I lean toward saying this will really, actually be cleared up by the time he gets back from this DL stint because muscle just heals faster and more completely.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have that feeling too
I think they are just going to be cautious with it
4B - beer baseball bands blog
DeRosa>MB
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crap. This is what I feared
But i’m glad they’re disabling him. Here’s one guy that won’t be surprised if he’s not ready at 15 days.
Give me a broken bone over a moderate/severe ligamentous injury any day of the week. If he tore a soft tissue structure in his wrist (and was already taping it up in Cleveland- leading to believe there were previous insults) I am pretty pessimistic he’ll be normal at all this year
by ribbij on Jul 7, 2009 5:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'd just like to say generally,
I’m shocked at all the medical personnel that showed up for this thread. I had no idea the number and qualifications in the VEB readership. I’m probably among the least qualified of anyone here to write about this, so thanks everyone.
P.S. Anyone want to write me a Med School recommendation letter?
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm a clinical molecular geneticist too
but I know v little about bones :-)
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were more qualified
I wouldn’t mind writing you one. But, being just a student myself, I don’t think it would do you much good.
As far as writing stuff like this, I wrote up one previously on the ulnar nerve transposition that Pujols had this offseason. It took me quite bit of time as I did it all evidence based and had to search for articles. I may look up some more evidence to back up what we’ve laid out here so far.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
VEB
has a lot of intelligent people. It’s great.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 7, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, explain Vivaelpujols then.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say ALL intelligent people.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 7, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH BURN
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2009 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A "pop"
Paletta did not examine DeRosa immediately after the initial injury, which the player said included a "pop" within the wrist. The Cardinals scheduled Monday’s follow-up exam while the team was in Cincinnati last weekend.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 7, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"Paletta did not examine DeRosa immediately after the initial injury, which the player said included a "pop" within the wrist. The Cardinals scheduled Monday’s follow-up exam while the team was in Cincinnati last weekend."
Instead, Paletta followed his usual procedure of having a monkey examine the player and come up with a diagnosis and treatment plan.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 7, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That should have been a reply
to StLHugo, by the way. How do you get text and quotes in the red box in the middle of a comment?
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 7, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you just highlight the text from your comment you want to quote and then push the button right between the comment box and the title box with the blue quotation marks.
Then it boxes them up.
You can also do it manually with < block quote> your quote </block quote> with no spaces.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 7, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
That helped
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 7, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OR...
type bq.
then type what ever you want after it
so “Tom is an asshole”
becomes
Tom is an asshole
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 8, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
hey!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 8, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it that doesn't deserve a rec, i don't know what does
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 9, 2009 3:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bq didn't work for me
how are you using that shorthand? I tried bq inside the <> and I tried it outside just to make sure
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 9, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post--and speaking of wrist injuries
I was at Fenway last night. It was Nomar Garciaparra’s first trip back to Fenway since being traded in 2004.
Nomar had a Hall of Fame start to his career, but got sidelined by chronic wrist problems after getting hit by a pitch in 1999. Early in the 2001 season, he underwent surgery for a split wrist tendon. The results of the surgery were not great, and he’s been on and off the DL since then, mostly with problems related to said wrist. His power also decreased over time (some may point to possible PED usage, but the chronic wrist injury also played a big role).
by olddomination on Jul 7, 2009 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
extensor sheath info
There are six synovial sheaths on the back side of the wrist. The reason we have these are to reduce friction for the extensor tendons as they travel down to their respective attachment locations. It is not uncommon for synovial cysts to form around the extensor sheaths, and can even “communicate” with them. These cysts are usually no big deal and have absolutely nothing to do with what DeRo has going on. I’ve looked for about an hour for further information on injuries to the sheaths and I cant find anything of value that would relate to what DeRosa has going on.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 7, 2009 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
asked one of my professors about it
he said he’s only had one pt. ever with derosa’s type of injury
took that pt about 4 weeks…so all star break may be a little early
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 7, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minor update:
After listening to DeRosa’s pregame interview, I heard him say “tear” in the “sheath” that “holds ligaments together”

There are a number of sheaths labeled, but the common sheath is the large one that starts just below the transverse carpal ligament and extends under it and into the hand. He could also be referring to the transverse carpal ligament itself. Just speculating now- deep structures of the hand are well out of my area of expertise.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 8, 2009 12:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
those are all flexor sheaths
I haven’t heard if his injury is a flexor or extensor sheath. I assumed extensor (back of the hand) just because they seem to be more prominent. But, I don’t know. I wish I could find an image of the extensor sheaths. They really are an amazing piece of anatomy. I am feeling just as inadequate about information on this thing as you are. I am going to ask the Occupational Therapist at the clinic I am currently working in about this thing tomorrow and see if I can get some more info. My luck, I was at a different clinic today w/ no OT’s so I had no one to ask.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 8, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this it?

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 9, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes it is
but that is not the image that i have seen in text books. In the one I am used to looking at, the sheaths are much more uniform.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 9, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well i found it with a quick google image search
probably a more refined one could find the picture you wanted
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 10, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ooh, that's neat
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 16, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
has anyone...
had surgery to remove a ganglion cyst on the top of the wrist? i had surgery 4 months ago and im still getting swollen and stuff after working out. i was told it be 6 months til i felt normal. but the swelling seems a bit too much. does anyone know if thats normal?
by cardsforever on Jul 14, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by 



















