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St. Louis Cardinals' Mark DeRosa (7) celebrates with teammates Nick Stavinoha (19), Skip Schumaker (55) and Albert Pujols (5) after hitting a three-run home run in the eighth inning against the Los Angeles Dodgers in a baseball game, Tuesday, July 28, 2009 in St. Louis. The Cardinals beat the Dodgers 10-0.(AP Photo/Tom Gannam)

More photos » by Tom Gannam - AP

3 months ago: St. Louis Cardinals' Mark DeRosa (7) celebrates with teammates Nick Stavinoha (19), Skip Schumaker (55) and Albert Pujols (5) after hitting a three-run home run in the eighth inning against the Los Angeles Dodgers in a baseball game, Tuesday, July 28, 2009 in St. Louis. The Cardinals beat the Dodgers 10-0.(AP Photo/Tom Gannam)

Hey, everyone. Apologies for the late post; if I had known my morning was going to be as busy as it has been, I would have made sure and done this last night during the game.

Speaking of the game, wasn't that fun? I honestly don't remember the last time the Cardinals could boast of an offense this intimidating; I'm pretty sure you have to go back to the juggernaut of 2004. Even the 2005 team, the one I personally thought had the best chance of winning it all, had the occasional lineup struggle, mostly due to the fact Abraham Nunez made the vast majority of the starts at third base that year. This offense now, though, wow. Just wow.

There's been a lot of talk since Matt Holliday was acquired about extending him, about resigning DeRosa, about bringing back Pineiro; basically the sort of talk you hear when fans decide money does in fact grow on trees. Sadly, it does not, but the front office and ownership have also been very upfront about their desire to hang on to at least some of these guys; given the recent state of affairs in Cardinal Town, one must take their words at roughly face value.

By trading away such large chunks of their future, the Cardinals have done two things. One, they've proven their commitment to putting a winning product on the field to a portion of the fan base that had questioned said dedication, and two, they've removed several of their future avenues to continue with those winning ways. However, I do think the Cards currently have the pieces in place to build a team which will not only contend for the next few years, but should be a solid championship bet virtually every season for quite some time. Here's my own personal road map to ensuring at least the first part of the next decade looks more like the 2000s than the 1990s.

Star-divide

  • First things first: Bill DeWitt and Co. have to be willing to step up to the plate financially. They did so this season, taking on additional salary after attendance proved better than initial forecasts, but that isn't enough. By making the moves they've made this year, ownership has put themselves in a position where in order to compete, they're going to have to raise payroll. The only other option is to let all their arbitration-eligible players walk and hope Jeff Luhnow can blow the doors off the next draft with the resulting windfall, but I somehow doubt that's an avenue this group is looking to go down. If the Cardinals are serious about keeping Matt Holliday around while also resigning Pujols (and the resigning Pujols part really goes without saying; this organization stands to lose too much if Albert walks), they're going to have to be willing to bump payroll into the $100-110 million range. I don't know how feasible that really is from a financial standpoint, but I can tell you from a baseball standpoint, it's going to be an absolute necessity. 
  • Now for the actual baseball moves themselves. Sign Matt Holliday to a long-term deal, using the contract JD Drew received from the Red Sox a couple years ago as a guide. Holliday's numbers are better than Drew's, but that deal was signed in a very different world, plus the Coor's Field effect on Holliday's career stats. Something in the five year, $70-80 million range; if Holliday insists on a truly titanic deal, more the eight year, $100 million plus variety, thank him for his services and put a bunch of your free agent money into the drafting budget, because you're going to need it. You have to offer arbitration to Holliday at the very least; those picks are far too valuable to simply let them walk away. 
  • Offer Mark DeRosa arbitration. I know a lot of people are hoping to see DeRosa on a multi-year deal, and frankly, he probably deserves one based on his level of play the past few years. Nonetheless, facts is facts, and DeRosa is moving into his mid-30s, and handing out big money contracts for multiple years to guys firmly in their declining years is a losing proposition. I realise DeRosa has actually gotten better as he's moved past what would normally be a player's peak years, but that won't hold forever. If he accepts arbitration, you've got a great situation; a gifted offensive player on a one-year deal. But we've seen the Cardinals in the past get tied to long-term deals with players who are falling off the cliff, and brother, it ain't pretty. 
  • Arbitration for Joel Pineiro. Have I mentioned before how much the details of the Kyle Lohse deal hurt me? Funny that I would ever mourn the team's inability to at least consider a multi-year deal for Joel Pineiro, but such are the times we live in. Personally, I would be very hesitant to give Jo-El a longer deal, as we've heard this song before, but I also do honestly believe Pineiro has become a better pitcher. He won't maintain the level of success he's currently having, but I also don't expect to see El Pinata return any time soon, either. A guy with his mechanics and track record of durability, who can put up numbers even a step or two down from what he's accomplished this season is a remarkably valuable commodity. No way Joel accepts the arby offer; he'll get a three or four year deal from someone. There's also no way you can afford to give him that deal yourself, even with a sizable payroll bump. It would be possible in 2010, but look ahead a couple of years, when so many of your other young core players are getting expensive, and it simply isn't feasible. We'll always have 2009, Joel. 
  • After you get Holliday's contract done, extend Albert. I've said in the past that the chatter about Holliday proving something to Albert and changing the dynamic of those negotiations is mostly bullshit, but still, every little bit helps. Ride the wave of good feeling a Matt Holliday extension would provide, and use the opportunity to get Pujols locked up as well. I can't see Albert pushing for an A-Rod sort of contract, despite being A-Rod's better; I'm thinking something more along the lines of Mark Texeira's contract from the Yankees, especially money wise. If the contract has to go ten years, do it. You don't let a guy that so defines your franchise to a large portion of your fan base walk unless you absolutely have to, especially when it's a position player. 
  • Sign Ludwick to a three year deal. This one's interesting to me, as Luddy is still in his cost-controlled years, but he's also going nowhere but up. His 2008 season is probably out of reach, but the numbers he's putting up this year are certainly in play every year of that contract, I think. By signing him after this year, you avoid being forced up and up and up by the arbitration process; Ludwick gets the financial security that means so much by it being guaranteed money, and the Cardinals can lock him in to a contract that helps them stay competitive. Three years, say, $21-24 million. That gives Luhnow and the minor league guys three years to turn Wagner Mateo or Kyle Conley or Virgil Hill or Jon Edwards or some other kid into a big time right field prospect. My money's on Mateo long-term, but probably not in three years. There may be a little transition period there, but that's okay. Regardless, this contract locks up Ludwick's production at a reasonable rate, while giving the farm system a definite time frame to fill a need. After that, offer Luddy arbitration and take the picks when he goes elsewhere. (If, of course, the arby process hasn't been changed by then.) 
  • I think you need to offer Rick Ankiel arbitration. I'm afraid he'll accept and the Cards will be stuck with him, but hopefully he'll play well enough down the stretch that some team signs him to a reasonable two-year deal. The draft pick you would get for Rick is too valuable to just let it go, I think, especially after losing so much minor league talent this year. If he accepts, just trade him as soon as possible, for anything. 
  • Consider signing Rasmus to a long-term deal during the 2010 season. Think Evan Longoria here. I know Colby's been struggling of late, and is still understandably adjusting to major league ball, but the kid is a future star. He's already the best defensive center fielder in the game, and his offense, while inconsistent this year, has always been the most heralded part of his toolset. You're giving up lots of that precious cost-controlled time, but as with Ludwick, locking in a top-tier player at a price that works for the organisation. 
  • With Holliday signed, Daryl Jones needs to be traded. This really hurts me to say, as I'm a huge fan of DJ Tools, but let's face it: Jones isn't Matt Holliday, and isn't going to be. I think he'll be an impact player, but he isn't taking Holliday's job away from him. Now I'm sure you're probably thinking, "Well, yeah, but he's young, cheap, and would be one of the best fourth outfielders in the game!" To which I say, that's true, but here's my theory on that issue: the value of Daryl Jones as a fourth outfielder is less than the value of Daryl Jones as a trade chip. He's the last real blue-chip prospect in the system (and even he does have a few warts), at least until some of the new guys really begin to make their names known, and the Cardinals have quite a few other guys capable of being very good extra outfielders. You're probably looking for a lefty, so Jon Jay or Tyler Henley are the likeliest candidates; my money is on Henley stepping in and being that guy. In the end, my valuation works like this: Daryl Jones as a fourth OF is worth less than Tyler Henley as a fourth outfielder PLUS the return on Daryl Jones in a trade. 
  • In dealing Daryl Jones, the target needs to be a young stud pitcher, either a prospect or a 0-3 guy. Clay Buchholz is the guy I'm looking at as a model, though he's not necessarily a good fit specifically here.The Sawx are willing to move him, as he's apparently part of the package they're offering for Roy Halladay, but I'm not sure Jones would be a great fit for them, and I think they would only move Buchholz for a big time talent haul. That's the type of guy you need to get, though. The Cardinals are already locked in to three starters for the next few years, and aren't going to be able to afford to pay for even averagish production, much less top-flight production; you need to use your best trade chip to get one guy you really believe in to step in to the rotation next year at the back end and let him develop from there. The price will probably be Jones + a mid-level prospect, and I'm okay with that. 
  • A note about this young pitcher: I believe both Jaime Garcia and Mitchell Boggs can develop into good starters, given time. So why not just use those two, instead of moving DJ to bring in a guy? I don't think betting on Garcia to handle a full starter's load next season is a very good idea, and Boggs has yet to prove he can pitch well consistently, rather than oscillating wildly between potential #3 guy and candidate for Triple A middle relief. Garcia in the bullpen next season, working on his stamina and acclimating to the big leagues, Boggs or Hawksworth as the #5 starter and Lance Lynn stashed at Memphis as a #6/7 would be an ideal situation, I think. 
  • Skip Schumaker should be dealt as well. I know he's a managerial favourite, and has done yeoman's work this year turning himself into a decent second baseman, but Skip is also approaching the point when he's no longer cheap, and his age is no longer a real plus. And even as much as Skip has improved at the keystone, he's still a minus defender, if only a small one. Daniel Descalso, the Cardinals' second base prospect currently raking at Memphis, could match Schumaker's production numbers pretty closely, I believe, if only because he wouldn't have to overcome the runs Skip gives back with the glove. On the contrary, I've seen DD play a few times, and to my eye he's a plus defender. I think second base next year should be a time-share between Julio Lugo, who's already under contract and being paid for by Boston, and Descalso. 
  • In dealing Skip, the target should be, most likely, relief help. The Cards raided the pantry pretty well this season to bring in Khalil Greene and DeRosa, and while there's plenty more bullpen help still on the farm, you hate to not have a safety net if some of those guys struggle on exposure to the big leagues. You want a guy who's still young and cheap in exchange for Skip, but someone with a couple seasons under their belt, just so there's an established track record to work off of. 
  • Shelby Miller must be signed. The Cardinals need a blue-chip guy, if only to help prop up what is going to be a very weak system after this year's talent drain, but they also need MIller specifically to turn into the guy they think he can be. By the time Miller gets to the high minors, Carpenter will likely be gone, Kyle Lohse will be on his way out, and Adam Wainwright will be the expensive staff ace. The Cards have plenty of guys who look like they could pitch at the ML level in a rotation, but none with a really exciting, dominant package. With big deals for Albert, Holliday, Rasmus, Wainer, and probably Molina on the books, the Cardinals won't be able to afford to buy one, either, so they're going to need a young stud. Miller should be that guy. 
  • Not too long ago, I believe it was Azru over at Future Redbirds who postulated the Cardinals will likely see some conservative drafts the next  couple years to help restock things after losing so much talent this year. I think that's the exact wrong strategy to take. The Cards will likely be locking themselves into most of their starters for the next couple years, and there are still plenty of bench type guys in the system, so the early picks need to remain aggressive. The value difference, even if only in a trade scenario, between a Pete Kozma or Adam Ottavino and a Shelby Miller is hard to overstate. Even if Miller struggles early on in his pro career, he'll be insanely sought after, simply due to the possible upside if he puts it all together. On the flip side, what do you honestly think the Cardinals could get for Kozma right now, even though he's moved very quickly through the system and is playing better than several other first-rounders from the same draft? As useful as Kozma could end up being, the perceived lack of star upside there is going to depress his trade value, no matter how well he's played so far. 
  • Brendan Ryan is your shortstop the next couple of years. Particularly with the offensive firepower the Cards are boasting currently, you can absolutely afford to have a glove guy at short. (That's not to devalue Brendan's bat, either; he's become a decent major league hitter, but what we've seen so far is probably about his ceiling with the bat.) Particularly if you replace Skip with Lugo/ Descalso next season, the middle infield could save a whole lot of runs for the pitching staff. 
  • Third base is a tough one. The ideal, of course, would be for DeRosa to accept arbitration for next season, offering the Cards another year to try and figure out a long-term solution, but I honestly think someone offers him a multi-year deal. As it stands now, I think you have to repeat this spring's competition, with David Freese and Joe Mather competing for playing time. (Allen Craig should be in the mix as well, but I kind of doubt he will be.) If it looks as if one of those guys is going to hold down the job, great. If not, then they'll serve only as a stopgap until Mo can figure something else out. The alternative would be to try and get some hot corner help when moving Schumaker, but I'm not sure how feasible that is. Honestly, if the Cardinals go into next season with only third base as a position of real concern, I think we should all count our blessings after how badly the oufield and left side of the infield blew up this year. 
  • Luhnow and his crew must continue to draft plenty of relief candidates. It may seem to run counter to what I said earlier about drafting aggressively, but just look at how much value the Cards have gotten out of the minor league relievers of late. The bullpen this year has been a mild strength, and has cost virtually nothing. Drafting guys who closed in college, potential fast risers like Joe Kelly and Scott Bittle, may not be particularly exciting, but is a sound strategy for keeping costs down. With the big contracts for the power bats, the bullpen is going to have to continue to be very cost-effective. The only way to keep it that way is to grow your own relievers. 

So that's the course of action I would map out for the Cardinals over the next two offseasons. I think this is the year you need to get deals done with Pujols, Holliday, and Ludwick, while reaping the draft pick windfall from the departing free agents. You deal away a blocked high-octane prospect in order to get a future building block, and move a solid role player before he gets expensive and free up a spot for another top prospect.

If the Cardinals did these things, they would have the best outfield in baseball, a defensively outstanding infield with potential for solid contributions on offense, a rotation that could come close to equaling this year's production, and a bullpen that should be a mild strength again while not siphoning money. The Cardinals do this, and I think we could see another run in 2010-2015 like we had in 2000-2005. Of course, then they'll finally win the series in '16 after their newest trade acquisitiion, Madison Bumgarner, blows out his shoulder and is replaced in the rotation by by Colin Balester, only to see the whole thing come off the rails in 2017.

The Baron's Playlist for the 29th of July, 2009

"Waterfall" - Quintron

"Cannibal Resource" - The Dirty Projectors

"Twilight Galaxies" - Metric

"Somebody Pick Up My Pieces" - Bettye LaVette

10 recs  |  Comment 550 comments

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great post.

fantastic.

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice post...

in other news, Phils give up slightly more than Perez + Todd to get reigning AL Cy.

I’m off to cry in my beer…

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Im not familiar w/ other team's ML system as I am w/ the Cards but

if thats true then that is mighty depressing. On the other hand, boy does Derosa look good swinging the bat.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

naw.

it’s definitely plenty more. Knapp was worth a LOT.

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They just shut him down...

due to pain in his shoulder. Carrasco is a somewhat better prospect than Mortensen, but Marson and Donald are something akin to Kozma and Anderson, if more advanced.

Not sure what an equivalent trade would have looked like… Maybe Todd + Perez + Kozma + Anderson? That seems like a weaker package, but only by a little bit.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that sounds about right.

but i think two projected ML starters is worth a bit more than two projected ML relievers.

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

the real killer to me is that Lee costs less than $2 million for the remainder of ‘09, AND HE’S SIGNED FOR $8 MILLION IN 2010. And then you get the draft picks.

Kudos to that weasel JP Ricciardi for not being low-balled.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh, yeah, you've gotta say that kinda sucks

and, realistically, that haul is not much more than we gave up for Holliday, either. I’m guessing we could’ve thrown in Kozma (would we even need to do that?) to the Holliday haul to get Lee. Obviously, offence was our big need but Lee for $8m next year would make us an absolute powerhouse, even without Holliday…

I don’t think Toronto can shift Halladay this year now.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure Halladay is staying in Toronto now

which is fine by me, I was afraid he was going to Philly. Even still, the Phillies are a lot scarier with Lee.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope Halladay doesn't end up with the Red Sox now

"It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again." - Terence Mann.

by TurdFerguson on Jul 29, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that would suck

But I doubt it’s going to happen. The Jays GM is asking for too much, I think. He said publicly he wanted something done by yesterday, which may have just been a gimmick to get his phone ringing, but I bet Halladay isn’t moving.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yay!

RB lives! This was a great post as well.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Another great post RB

late afternoon post…mmmm guess the comments count will be about 300 by game time.

No play list or did I miss something?

Craig is hitting lights out in Memphis….. he needs a chance in the Show someday…. hopefully with Birds on the Bat.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is that when RB's next post is going to be?

=)

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yellow card (j/k)

He may be late….. but it’s always worth the wait.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just thinking about this in the shower this morning

about ‘building from within’. Yes, I just set you all up with that one.

If we hadn’t been in the TLR/Jocketty “if it moves, trade it for something older”, our lineup of drafted players/minor league FAs would be:

CF – Colby Rasmus
RF – JD Drew
1B – Albert Pujols
LF – Ryan Ludwick
2B – Placido Polanco
SS – Jack Wilson
C – Yadier Molina
3B – Brett Wallace?

Our pitching would be absolute garbage, with Wainwright still in Atlanta, although we’d still have He Who Not Be Named and possibly still have Carpenter but it was an interesting mental exercise.

It was prompted by thinking about all the talent the Dodgers have just given away that last 10 years.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But at the same time

We’d never trade for Renteria and never not-sign him and never have Rasmus…

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 29, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

but the point is that for everything about how awful our farm system was and that we need to trade prospects to get proven talent, holding off on that, we’d have a pretty talented lineup.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm half kidding

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 29, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Renteria trade was a very good one.

Trading for a young guy entering the prime of his career. Smart move.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 29, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

U Can Ferget Wilson Now....

…he’s a Mariner.

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wilson, Snell to M’s for Clement, Ronny Cedeno, and 3 minor league pitchers

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So much for Pitt not selling low.

Pitt got raped unless those 3 pitching prospects are any good.

Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.

by Red Blazer on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's actually a surprisingly good haul for pitt, imo.

they might not have been able to pick up wilson’s option with their budget. wilson was being paid pretty much what he was worth, so he was no real bargain there.

snell was persona non grata – in a club with some surprisingly good pitching this year. they traded two non-factors for someone who will be a reasonable and cheap 1b for years to come, an unimpressive fill-in at ss, and some middling pitching depth.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know nothing of the Ms minors. I do know that Snell has talent.

Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.

by Red Blazer on Jul 29, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the point is that it's a what-if, i believe...

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The JD Drew trade is the one I would not lump into the typical category.

Same with Rolen <> Glaus

Both of those were vet for vet exchanges with teams trying to exchange problems or trade a surplus for a need. Not all trades are bad and we have made some good one. However, trading youth for experience when both are of roughly equal talent levels is not a good business strategy.

by DriverZn on Jul 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Drew

trade wasn’t exactly vet for vet. We got A LOT back in that trade, including a certain double-A pitcher named Adam Wainwright.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you know the FO has its

own roadmap, probably (hopefully) with a lot of overlap with yours. Damn, I’d love to be fly on the wall when Moz & co. are discussing those options.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 29, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So the Phillies picked up Lee...

And the Mariners got Wilson and Snell…

Already a busy day in the Bigs.

OT Story: Had a dream last night where I was on the Sacramento AAA Affiliate of the A’s and my locker was right next to Brett Wallace. He told me he was disappointed he got traded and because of it, he’s gonna put on another 20 pounds of muscle.

I have some fucked up dreams.

I'm the guy that does his job, you must be the other guy.

by The_teague on Jul 29, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude would be HUGE w/ another 20lbs of muscle.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

better than dreaming about taco bell's bacon potato burrito,

then seconds later throwing up

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2009 5:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much how I feel

I am hoping DeRosa becomes a Type A by the end of season. This will pretty much give us leverage in negotations if he he doesn’t accept arbitration.

I for one am still holding out hope for Glaus to come back healthy this season. I would love to see him get hot for August, Sept, and the Playoff’s. Maybe by the Playoff’s he can throw across the Diamond. Cause I really want him to rebuild his 3B value in the worst way so we can get those 2 draft picks for him. Their is no good 3B what so ever this offseason on the Free Agent Market.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 3:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am worried about the Cardinals conserative approach to offering Arbitration

I want the draft picks in the worst way but I am afraid they won’t offer Arbitration. I think you missed Trevor Miller also. He should be a Type B free agent. Which is perfect. A Type A is a horrible thing for a reliever to be.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't include him,

but honestly, I kind of hope he’s back next year. The Cards do have a couple possible lefty relievers on the way in the persons of Tyler Norrick and Sam Freeman, but I’m not sure either will be ready for primetime next season. Another one year deal for Miller would be just about perfect.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember when Ring was a cant miss Mets prospect.

TINSTAAPP

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't Ring the prospect in Moneyball

That Kenny Williams took over Blanton?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanton went 24 - Ring went 18

Curiosly enough – Matt Cain went 25. What was Beane thinking?

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cain was a HS pitcher

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That explains it.

Though my what was Beane thinking was a joke.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

at good old Houston High

in Memphis. Used to love playing them in the Regionals.

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The first round of that draft was loaded btw

The Pirates continued being the Pirates by taking Bryan Bulliington over BJ Upton.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I remember a bunch of names from that draft

Kazmir, Hermida, Upton, Greinke, Fielder, Hamels, Francis, Loney, Khalil…

Shit

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Saunders - Denard Span

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mediocrity, I fear....

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glaus is useless to us

if he can’t throw. I’m hoping against hope that a marginal AL team gets desperate and trades us picks & cash or something for him as a DH.

I don’t think they should offer him arb—I suspect his shoulder is just totally shot and he’s never going to play third in the majors again.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't think you could trade draft picks in MLB

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your sentiment, nota.

If Khalil kontinues to kill the ball, then he may be worth something too. Maybe we can get a couple of minor league relievers out of them and restock our thinning bullpen help.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

really?

shows how much attention I pay to the draft….

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

Yeah, you can’t trade picks.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give Glaus to Oakland

I’d give him to Oakland and pay the difference in salary for the return of a certain right-hander who can handle the 8th inning and loves the Cardinals.

by birdo rojo on Jul 29, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and they build Ballpark Village.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

You mean they aren’t going to start that tomorrow?

I think there may actually be a chance something like this happens. His salary is pretty much a sunk cost they can’t do anything with if they want someone in return. It’s only a few million left for this year as we’ve already paid over half of it so far.

by birdo rojo on Jul 29, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be neat to get Springer back. I'm all for it...

Glaus would probably not except arb to play in Oak so Billy might get some more picks.

Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.

by Red Blazer on Jul 29, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

woo hoo

Welcome back to missouri for me! and welcome back to having my own, non-pirated internet and 42 in flat screen to watch the new toys run around on every night. Man I love FSN!

Now just keep your fingers crossed for me that my laptop doesn’t crap out before I get it straightened out!

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jul 29, 2009 3:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You picked a nice day to come home.

Some fine weather.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

been back a couple of days

cable guy just hooked the internet back up earlier today though. Weather hasn’t been bad, neither has watching some not so close cards games. I’ve got tickets to sunday’s game and I can’t wait to see this team in person! I’ve felt so out of the loop for the last couple of weeks.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jul 29, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

very good thoughts here.

i agree with most – some, like offering arb to ankiel, i would not have said on my own, but i can see the logic there.

two thoughts:

can descalso be a 3b option? he’s played there before. i know his defensive virtue is in turning double plays like he’s being paid per pivot, but we could end up in the same position as last year with freese and mather hurt and the club not trusting craig enough to offer him the spot. descalso is probably a better option at third than skippy. at least, if we try to convince skippy he’s going to be a third baseman this march, his head will explode.

did we get a lot of value from our relief prospects because relief prospects are truly valuable, or because relief prospects were what we had? i would also contend that our bullpen this year has been a weak spot, rather than a strength (although you might say it’s because our main prospects were traded away). the main lights are actually our non-farm based relievers (franklin, reyes, miller). i would discourage drafting relievers in the early rounds because their value is so low going forward; even if they are relative draft successes, the value they provide is still low. also, failed starting prospects (see: norrick, tyler; ottavino, adam [in progress]) may turn into ok relief projects. failed relievers just get released. i will disagree with you on that point.

but most of the rest is hard to argue with. dj tools — is he a fit with san francisco? lots of pitching talent, weak offense.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

When you asked about San Fran,

with a guy nicknamed Tools, I thought you were going in a very different direction.

As for the drafting relievers, part of what I like about the strategy is that guys who close in college are remarkably close to the majors. You can always get a quick turnaround from those guys. Kelly and Bittle, both of the guys the Cards drafted this year, could very well make their way to the majors sometime in the second half of next year, I’ll bet. It’s a situation where you can build a war chest rather quickly.

And when I said value, I didn’t only mean trade wise. I meant the relievers the Cardinals have kept, as well. Look at how much some other teams are paying for relief help (remember the Cubs’ bullpen spending spree a couple years back?), and the Cardinals are getting good production from their guys for essentially free.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

relievers also make good mid season trade chips

Their actual value gets the biggest boost mid season of any position,imo

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot who wrote it, but someone over at FR made a very good point about drafting relievers.

Lunhow basically funded our entire trading system for ’09 with drafts from ’07 and ’08. Basically, in two years of drafting, he landed enough talent to net us one of the best LF in all of baseball, as well as an extremely versatile and talented bat to play 3b.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree 100% on College Closers

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i still disagree on "good production." we are 23rd for FIP from our relievers in the majors.

our best relievers by FIP are Mitch Boggs in a small sample, ryan franklin, trever miller, dennys reyes, and brad thompson.

we have a very decent K/BB rate, but one of the worst HR/9 rates.

by WAR, our best relievers are franklin, miller, and reyes. our best home-grown reliever is kyle mcclellan, currently worth 0.1 WAR. next best – blaine boyer. everybody else is either at or below replacement value. kinney and motte are both worth – 0.4 wins.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man, how did Mo justify trading both Perez and Todd

I won’t blame him for going after the guys he did, but he needs to learn how to haggle other GMs down to more reasonable packages.

by TheBirds on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you assume he didn't try?

I’m still combing through the printout of my wire tap. I’ll let you know what I see.

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where does this leave guys like

Hoffpaiur and Mather Role players (my assumption), or possible trade prospects?

Great post, but I think the chances of the Cards offering Rick arbitration is 50/50. I know TLR loves him, but with guys like Mather (assuming he gets healthy) around to take a bench role, it’s a cheaper alternative than an arbtration-eligible Ankiel.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Springfield

The problem with offering him Arbitration is that he will get over $15M

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And with his injuries

He’d more than likely take it

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont see anyway he does not take it.

He can spend a year trying to reestablish himself in the hopes that he lands one more big contract.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I know

And if he does, it pretty much guarantees that either Holliday or DeRo don’t get re-signed.

But let’s assume the Cards have Monopoly money, and have a lineup that includes a healthy Glaus, DeRosa, Pujols, Holliday, and Thudstick.

Damn, just damn…

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Dero plays 2nd in your fantasy lineup?

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Think about it

Who would you pick that you could get to 3rd base with one swing of the bat? Who can’t really bring the thunder but is really good with their hands? Who can really handle the stick? And excels when the bags are packed?

And if you’re asking who the pitcher and the catcher are, get out of my fantasy.

Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Somehow,

I feel as if this comment should be both rec’d and flagged.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SUCCESS!!

Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I think about that too much

I’ll have to step outside and have a smoke.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

would he really?

i’m not really all that familiar with the ins and outs of arbitration but that seems absurd

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought that was just for pre-free agency arbitration?

or have I got it the wrong way round? I thought he could potentially make any amount.

I still think it’s worth offering to Glaus IF his shoulder is fixed and IF DeRo doesn’t accept arby/can’t be re-signed relatively cheaply. Even $12m would be cheap for a healthy Glaus, and we’ll have that money to spare according to RB’s plan above (sign Holliday, let everyone else walk, trade DJ Tools for a 4th starter).

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want Glaus back

Cause I don’t want to see his draft picks go away for nothing

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that is true for the FA arb situation..

..seem to recall someone posting that around here in the last few days

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Google, here I come, results soon

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“A Club may submit a salary figure for salary arbitration that is at least 80% of the Player’s previous year’s salary and earned performance bonuses (and at least 70% of his salary and earned performance bonuses two years previous). A Club may submit a salary arbitration figure without regard to the [80% provision] above if the figure submitted is with respect to a Player who, in the immediately preceding year, won a salary arbitration which increased the Player’s prior year’s salary by in excess of 50%”

So it looks like FAs are subject to the minimum of at least 80%, but only if they didn’t get at least a 50% raise in salary from arb the year before, which would exclude most first time free agents.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Article XX section B3

If the Player accepts the offer to arbitrate, he shall be a signed
player for the next season and the parties will conduct a salary arbitration
proceeding under Article VI; provided, however, that the
rules concerning maximum salary reduction set forth in Article VI
shall be inapplicable and the parties shall be required to exchange
figures on the last day established for the exchange of salary arbitration
figures under Article VI.

by stickman179 on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome, thanks

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he and scott rolen are working on a vaudeville act where they compete to show who has

the most limited range of motion in their shoulders.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So if there is no chance he doesn't take arbitration,

why don’t we just offer him a low-ball contract next season? $7M with a $12M 2010 option and a $2M buyout or something (provided he can play 3B for sure next season).

15=/=25

by hazel on Jul 29, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wainwright has the best curve in the league?

I was screwing around on FG yesterday and I think A.D.A.M. had the highest CB/WPA (or some other measure… i get letters mixed up and FG is very very slow for me this morning.)
i thought that was pretty awesome.

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pitch linear weights

It doesn’t necessarily mean it has the best curveball, but it does (theoretically) mean he has the most effective curveball.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

epic

I applaude you

I am hoping Derosa will accept arb and play 3B for us… they are really going to have to up payroll, but I think with this team on the field there will be plenty going to see them play.

I am sort of thinking that Mozeliak is even more underrated than we thought

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am not happy with him

Todd will be missed

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how many more home runs do you want him to hit?

I don’t want to disrespect you, but Jess Todd might be missed

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watching the cards now with Holliday and Derosa is so much different than a month ago. Its a comforting feeling knowing that they can explode for 3-4 runs in an inning at anytime. I dont know, its hard to express but i just feel like they are gonna hit. For instance, though Billingsley shut us down for 5 innings, I knew the Cards bat were eventually going to get him. Probably doesnt hurt that Adam was throwing a shut out but I know some of you feel the same way.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

before all this tradestorming, when we were down by three in the later innings I pretty much wrote it off as a loss. now, I’m excited to watch every second

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+2004

they look dangerous as hell all of a sudden, the Phillies series notwithstanding.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We had the wrong pitchers for the Philly series

if that were Carp, Waino, and Joel then we don’t get smoked in those two games. Or at least the likelihood goes down considerably.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in the future Moz will be judged

on how Perez, Todd, Wallace, and Mort do with their new teams. Personally I’d love it for once somebody got the better of Billy “Ringless” Beane.

If we win a pennant this year it’ll be worth it IMHO, mostly cause I don’t follow the minors and get attached to those guys.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree sorta

A lot changes if the Cards win the WS this year and sign both Dero and Holliday to extensions.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First part, yes.

Second part, no. Signing DeRosa and Holliday is independent of the trades. Each was a free agent after the season and could have been signed as such. The trades only got you whatever time the players are with your team this season.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you believe that each players time in STL has no impact on their decision.

I dont believe that. Rolen/Edmonds/McGwire have said in the past that there decision to sign extensions had a lot to do w/ the comfort level of playing in STL. How much this matters, I dont know, but it does matter. Now the Cards have an upper hand in signing Dero & Holliday.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that is one of the most overused cliches ever.

Every player is going to say they signed somewhere because they loved it there after they sign. And maybe a guy does take a little less. How much? Is there a percentage I can put on it? CC apparently loved it in Milwaukee last year, yet I still see him in pinstripes every couple days on Sports Center.

Maybe it does matter. Somehow, though, I doubt it matter half as much as people think.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I cant give you an exact percentage.

But if you played somewhere and you were comfortable wouldnt you value that over an unknown?

The Yankees blew the Brewers’ contract out of the water. Same thing could happen with Holliday, I guess.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edgar Renteria

Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"

by RiverRat on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's true if the money gap

between the place the player likes (Milwaukee in your example) and the place that’s offering ridiculous money that sets your family up for at least three generations is cavernous. If it’s close, I think comfort and familiarity might play a bigger role.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That may be entirely true.

The problem is, there’s really no way of knowing how much a guy likes it somewhere, and how much he’s willing to leave on the table because of it.

It’s literally like taking all the problems with results-oriented thinking, and then making the original equation something you can’t possibly predict.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very true

Because each person has a differnt set of values that will make that determination for them. Hopefully, Holliday and DeRosa like it here so much they’ll be willing to play for free. :)

I would. But since I have a shoulder impingement and a possible torn rotator cuff, I’m thinking I can get a 3/30 deal from Mo.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

especially from the outside, when every single player (whose name doesn't

rhyme with “bran smell”) tells the media how much they LOVE the city they’re in right now. then when moved tell the world how much they LOVE their new city (see mark derosa’s comments on chicago, cleveland, and st. louis – the guy is overflowing with geographical affection).

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they do?

felipe lopez was a mid-season acquisition who didn’t sign. jeff weaver didn’t sign.

and if some (or many) midseason acquisitions do sign, is that because the person signed wanted to play in “baseball heaven” or because the cards gave him a decent offer?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he might be referring to big impact guys

like McGwire, Edmonds, Rolen, etc

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was.

But I knew Lopez was going to come up. Forgot about Weaver.

Im not saying the Cards are not going to have to pay to sign these players but I do think having on board for 2 months will help that situation. If Dero or Holliday are planning on playing for top dollar, then no, the Cards will probably not resign them. Regardless, I still think having them on board for 2 months will help in resigning them.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rolen got chased out of philly, essentially. and people tend

to sign 8y/$90M deals, especially back in 2002. what kind of discount did he give us?

jimmy got a 6y $57M deal in 2001, after an off year in Anaheim. there wasn’t a discount there.

mcgwire signed a deal for a substantial raise and came to STL to work with his long-time manager from oakland.

the only thing this tells me is that if you pay players $10M a year, they will play for you.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They were signed.

Holliday is coming to STL to work for his not so secret admirer.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we'll see.

the related factor that i think is much bigger is that the cards will have a month or so of exclusive negotiation time. in that time, the cards can make offers like — “here’s a five-year deal for $80M. don’t like it? ok, but you take the chance the economy crashes, jason bay spends some extra time flirting with a lot of teams, the braves trade nate mclouth to the yankees for phil hughes, or something else happens to disrupt the market. your choice.”

that window of negotiation is very important, probably moreso than whether he “fits” in our clubhouse. we have a window where we offer him real dollars and his agent can only say “you MIGHT get $XX dollars from boston/new york/etc.”

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many impact free agents

have the Cards signed who they hadn’t traded for first?

by JeffD on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it is totally player independent

What was the gap between Boston and the Cardinals on Renteria? $5MM? Obviously, he was very comfortable here, yet he still headed eastward.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 29, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was like

4 years, $36 million versus
4 years, $40 million

I could be WAY off on the numbers, though

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC, and I may not,

there ended up being a $2million difference in the offers. Two mil is still two mil, I guess.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes and No

I could see it make a difference if you get a ring with a team

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or what about this?

What if a player comes here and absolutely hates it? Does that make the trade worse somehow? You simply cannot assign any sort of meaningful value to something so vague.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it'd be funny, wouldn't it

if Matt really likes Manny and listened to all those boos…

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny ha ha

or funny odd?

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're correct that you cannot assign meaningful value to it

but that doesn’t mean the value doesn’t exist.

by JeffD on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'd rather move rosy to 2nd, mov e skip, and use freese or greene at 3rd.

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Jul 29, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two things

1) RB’s post is an example of how consistently amazed I am by the amount of thought and time some people on VEB are willing to invest in the Cardinals. As opposed to people like myself, whose contributions are mainly along the lines of Big Lebowski quotes and “Woooooo YADI!”

2) A question. Does making it all the way to the World Series one season create an amount of additional revenue significant enough to increase payroll the next season? If nothing else it brings in additional attendance, and then there’s also money to be made off people buying new T-shirts saying “World Series Champs WOOOOO suck it Cubs!” Is this just a drop in the bucket, though?

by Andyfantastic on Jul 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, making the world series will increase revenue hugely

you’re talking in the $50m bracket. Someone worked out somewhere that the average post-season appearance = about 25 mill; I suspect that doesn’t include the running costs of the stadium etc. which would reduce it a bit, but a guaranteed world series spot means probably 8-10 more home games, for which the tickets will be uber-expensive, as well as a TON more revenue from concessions, t-shirts, memorabilia etc.

So yeah, it’s super valuable.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT: The number of recs for a green comment

As I mentioned in last night’s final game thread, I’d like to propose the idea to the admins of the site that the number of recs required to turn a comment into the sexy, ego-boosting green color should be raised one notch to 6, thereby requiring any comment to be Serious before turning green and also raising the standards to which we hold ourselves (but mostly the Serious thing).

And no, I don’t work for whichever gas station it is that the commercials are actually for.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

That would me Mobil On The Run

Hand it to their marketing guys, I’ll have that name burned into my neurons forever. Along with a certain casino that I believe may be Home Of The Loosest Slots.

by Andyfantastic on Jul 29, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or that awful

“Mountains Win Again” song from the recent past.

by Holliday in the Sun on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or the infamous

If you come down to the President Casino, you’re gonna have some fun.

Pre-si-dent Casino…

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theoretical Question

What if the jingle had been Five…is a serious numbah?

Would you still be making this motion to the committee?

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trick Question

Ditka is God. (sorry in advance… it just seemed to fit)

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you had to choose between a hurricane, or Ditka

who wins the fight?

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahh...

But what if the Hurricane is named Hurricane Ditka?

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The jingle never would have caught on probably

The power of alliteration is required to make Six Serious.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ooohh, I like this idea.

Sadly, I don’t have the capacity to change such a thing, as far as I know, anyway. I think Dan might; he’s the masthead editor now. That would be awesome.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent

This will be easily my greatest contribution to the VEB community.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I won't have FSMW

Is this infamous commercial on youtube or something?

by sdrone on Jul 29, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I pray you listen to me on this

It is, but DO NOT watch it. At first, it will irritate you, and you will think, meh, no big deal.

Then, you’ll watch it again, with a “hey, I can quit watching this anytime I want to” mentality.

Then, you’ll find yourself taking extra long lunches, watching the video over and over.

Soon, you’ll be driving out at two in the morning, looking for free wi-fi to watch it.

Then, when you’re homeless, your family has left you, and all you have is that commercial, maybe, just MAYBE, you’ll remember this warning and get the help you so desperately need.

But you are an adult, responsible for your own actions, so May Mobil have mercy on your soul…

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   4 recs

it wasn't serious enough.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hanging head in sorrow

I have a good 12 step program.

It’s doubly serious.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm just wondering why there hasn't been more backlash

for them pretty much blatantly ripping off The Lonely Island’s “Just Two Guys”

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, I just watched that video

and they don’t really seem that similar at ALL to me.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you kidding me?

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

Not at all. Seriously, this and this look the same to you?

Other than the concept of two guys rapping, which has never been done before.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and / or "we like sportz"

they even call it an OTR “digital short”

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because

They’re clearly parodying the Lonely Island. That’s why it says “An OTR Digital Short” at the beginning of the video.

Parodying =/= Ripping off

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

poorly done parody as an advertisement = ripping off IMB

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not poorly done.

It’s a total ear worm.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, so it's parody.

But it’s a poor parody. The two guys videos are funny because of the completely awkward dynamic of the two “rappers.” The Mobil OTR video is completely different in its form and style, besides the rapping bit. Whatever. I hardly see it as a rip-off.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not a rip-off specifically of the "Two Guys" videos

It’s a parody of The Lonely Island in general. They have a whole rap album, not just one song. Jizz in My Pants is a faux-rap song not based on awkwardness. Same with Like a Boss. Same with Lazy Sunday. They’re just spinning off of the concept of The Lonely Island in general.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But JIMP

is funny. 6 just makes me want to…GO TO MOBIL ON THE RUN!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! It works….THE COMMERCIAL SERVES ITS PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JIMP is amazing

My second favorite song on the album is Sax Man.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's Funny

But I’d rather rollup smooth and punch you in the jeans.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

Philles announcers about Toronto:
"Well they go out West after this series, this weekend, against the Tampa Bay Rays"

by RiverRat on Jul 29, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

let get serious about this

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's serious....

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 29, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the curse of Scotty...

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice Post

I agree with most of what you say, except I would not go 10 years on a contract for Pujols, or almost anyone. Pujols is awesome and they need to sign him, but not for 10 years. There is just no way of knowing how he will age, and players often decline fast in their 30s. And they could spend over $100 million for nothing.

Carlos Beltran, for example, was seen as a safe signing in 2005—a tremendous athlete with a history of excellent health and in his prime. Now at 32, Beltran has no cartilage left in his knees and is signed through 2011. I bet the Mets are glad he was not signed until age 40.

Meanwhile, superstar Vladimir Guerrero is 34 and a shell of the player he used to be. Do you think the Angels wish they had guaranteed him 6 more years?

Bagwell was declining by 34, done at 36.

Todd Helton, 35, quit being special as a player at 33. He is owed $40 million by the Rockies for the next two seasons. Do you think they wish they had him for 3 more?

Do you think the Yankees wished they guaranteed Don Mattingly big money until he was 40? (he quit being good before he was 30). George Brett quit being good at 37.

It is too hard to know how a player will age.

I’d give Albert big money for 5 years, at bigger annual values than I would over 10 years. And I’d even give him player options that vested at certain numbers of at bats. But guaranteeing him $23 million a year until 40 could easily end up with a bad situation.

by tarakas on Jul 29, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

pujols is different.

i’m not saying he won’t break down, or somehow not be worth the length of time, but he’s never played for another team, and because of what he means to this fanbase, he SHOULD never play for another team. and if it means financially mortgaging the team for a year or two because of it, so be it.

right or wrong, that’s how it i feel.

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, he is worth financially mortgaging the team for a year or two

But if he is done as a useful player at 35, is he worth mortgaging the team for FIVE years? And I guess, I don’t a situation where that ends up being the last half decade of his legacy, that he ends up as the guy whose performance and contract kept the Cardinals out of contention for half a decade. That would be a lousy way for the greatest player of his generation to end up.

I’m betting you could get him for fewer years at more dollars.

by tarakas on Jul 29, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm kinda with you here taraks

I think we SERIOUSLY over-rate what Pujols is likely to do in his late-30s. Sure, he could carry on being a perennial MVP as he is now, but the likelihood is that this is his peak. 2 or 3 more years of this sort of production is possible, but by the end of an 8-yr extension I could easily see him being league average or even worse. I’d love to lock him up until he’s 37, 38 or whatever but not for a huge raise – I could go something like 8yr/$150, but these $200m contracts people are bandying about sound like a bad idea to me…

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

bah

Albert Pujols will still be OPSing 1.100 when he’s 47

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

left handed

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he might drop below 1.000 at age 50

but not much (.985)

He figures if Julio Franco can play as long as he did, why can’t he contribute until he’s old enough to collect social security? (assuming it still exists)

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In all seriousness, and this may be a bit irrational,

but Pujols is one of those trancendent players that really can’t be compared to anybody but guys like Williams, Aaron, Mays, and Musial. This may come back to haunt me, but I think he will be a very productive hitter till he gets tired of hitting. His power may fade a bit, but the guy can hit line-drive doubles till he’s 45 unless he has some sort of catastrophic injury. I think he is like Tony Gwynn with power and without the fat. Tony could probably still hit major league pitching if he wanted to.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

seriously

I think, barring major injury, the guy could well OPS .900 at 35….he plays 1B which helps.

Anyway, speaking of transcendent…

Career OPS leaders

Ruth 1.1638
Williams 1.1155
Gehrig 1.0798
Pujols 1.0544

note, of course, that Pujols is the first righty on that list…..(let that sink in for a second)

AFAIC Pujols should be able to ask for and get 8 years. He’s 29 FFS!

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes he plays first....

But the level of acceptable offensive performance at first is the highest of any position in baseball, and first basemen tend to age very poorly, so it is a mixed blessing.

by tarakas on Jul 29, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, yeah

But at age 29 people were saying the same thing about Vladimir Guerrero and Frank Thomas.

To me, Frank Thomas is always a very worrisome comp to Pujols. Franchise/epic talent first baseman, awesome eye, more walks than strikeouts, hit for an incredible average, and had great power. At 28 and 29 he had hit .349 and .347 and from age 25-29 had averaged about 40 HR a year. His numbers look a lot like Albert’s.

He had season like that again. Ever. I’m sure the Sox are glad they didn’t sign him until 40. Or 35.

To use your players as examples, the last really big year Mays had was at 35. Musial had a big season at 37, and then again at 41, but from 38-40 was not great. Aaron did star until 39, and Williams pretty much cranked until the end.

Albert is a singular talent, and he may age exceptionally well. But COUNTING ON it seems like a poor idea.

by tarakas on Jul 29, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops

I meant to say Frank Thomas had one big season after the age of 29….

by tarakas on Jul 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we sign Frank Thomas to a minor league contract?

Let him find his stroke and bring him up when we expand the rosters.

Then if he hits we can carry him on the bench for the post season if and when we lock up a spot.

Would be a nice bat off the bench late in the game.

Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.

by Red Blazer on Jul 29, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt he wants to play that badly

And if he does it will likely cost more significantly more than the pro-rated league minimum….Ray Durham, on the other hand…

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frank didn't have monster seasons

but he was always a solid hitter. His body was a bit different from Pujols and he obviously didn’t play D as well. The Big Hurt could probably still DH for Oakland

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is Pujols' perfect comp.

(as a hitter.)

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Fact That People Have Mostly Forgotten

that Frank Thomas at 29 looked like the monster hitter of his generation is an example of how fast players can fade. At 29 Thomas was a can’t miss hall of famer/once a generation hitter.

Now, someone actually posts that he had no monster seasons? That’s almost all he had until he was 30. The problem is, from 30 on, his play was so unexceptional, many forgot what he had been. You can’t count on players maintaining a high level of performance.

by tarakas on Jul 30, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

last few years

You would be overpaying Pujols those last few unproductive years as he ages in order to have him wear the Cards uniform when he is hitting his 3000 hit or 900th home run. Or look at it like a backloaded contract, he is way underpaid now and would be making it up at age 37-38.

Also I would think that the Time Value of Money would be brought up in this disussion along with inflation and all that jazz.

by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Jul 29, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The issue is

Are you going to overpay him for 2 years, or are you going to overpay him for 5, or are you going to pay him a ton for years he is not even contributing (like Bagwell).

That is hard to know.

by tarakas on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's called risk.

And in terms of sabermetric value, it may not make sense to take that risk. But in business terms (marketing, history, etc), it makes a lot of sense.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed,

Signing Albert to a contract now that virtually guarantees that he’ll end his career as a Card is different from your normal production/value judgement. You may very well, in fact almost certainly will, be paying him more than he’s “worth” (as a player) at age 37, 38, 39, but he’s being underpaid now and will continue to generate non-game benefits and even income as the franchise player in those latter years.

by ArkansasTravs on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with the assumption

that you have to sign him for the rest of career now or you will lose him.

If you sign him for six years, why are you going to lose him after that? Can’t you resign him then? I’m missing something.

Or is the issue that he’ll refuse a shorter contract. Why does everyone assume he’ll insist on more than 5-6 years? Players very rarely sign contracts longer than that. So, if he asks for 10 years at an annual value of $24 million a year, does that mean he has no interest in 5 years at $28 million a year, plus a player option for 30 million if he gets 500 plate appearances in the last year? That’s a very nice contract offer.

As far as business sense goes, if Albert is done as a productive player at 35, paying him $25 million a year for five more years is terrible business, any way you look at it. Fielding an uncompetitive team saddled with most of its payroll going to an unproductive player is not good business, and losing for 5 straight years isn’t going to bring out fans.

I guess at the end of the day, I’m a CARDINALS fan.

by tarakas on Jul 30, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upcoming series with the Astros

The Cubs-Astros series so far has DECIMATED the Astros pitching. First there was the 13 inning affair on Monday, then Oswalt left the game after 1.2 IP yesterday, and right now the Cubs are up 9-0 with Hampton still pitching in the 4th inning. And apparently the guy who pitched in relief of Oswalt on Tuesday, Wesley Wright, went to the hospital after the game with appendicitis.

The Astros bullpen is going to be absolutely worn down over the coming days, and Friday they come to town against the Cards. Perhaps they’ll call up some arms from AAA? Hard to know—do they even have anyone marginally useful in AAA? But the good news is that our new awesome offense is on a collision course with one super-tired pitching staff. And I think we owe the Astros one for that series in Houston.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No Oswalt, No Berkman,

A shot bullpen, and shot confidence after being hammered by the Cubs.

Revenge will be had.

THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wright had dehydration, not appendicitis

anyway, yeah, the Stros aren’t going to make much out of their traditional second half push missing both Oswalt and Berkman.

The Brewers have no pitching. It’s us and the Cubs for the division title, and I don’t think the Cubs can hang with our new offense.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They can if

Soriano stays hot and Dempster and Lilly come back 100%. I still like the Cards chances over the Cubs, but they’re still a good team.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I’ve thought, and said, all along it was between us and them. And I still think they’re a VERY good team.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Basically, the Cardinals patched all their holes, while the Cubs are filling theirs by waiting for their problems to fix themselves. We just have to hope that they don’t.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's the Cubs

something goofy will happen

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dempster stank last night

and Lilly will be out for a little while….Harden is as fragile as Carp, Zambrano and Wells are solid, but I still like our four-man rotation better than their five-man at the moment.

They need Bradley to start killing the ball….that’d be like us getting a fistful of homers out of Ankiel all of a sudden.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Bradley will have a serious meltdown

as Sep approaches. He just has a fragile psyche, and seems like he’s one pitch from going into the crowd a la Slapshot.

And yeah, Dempster was horrid, Z has been up and down, and apparently you can only pitch Harden every other Tuesday night on the road or he gives up 11 runs in 2 innings.

I like the position the Cards are in, to be sure, but as much as I want to, I can’t discount the Flubbies.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Terrble signing by Hendry.

Game Board is going to be an anchor around the Cubs necks for 3 years.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

unless they trade him to the Pirates

for McClutchen (sp?)

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

Thats not enough – Duke will have to be included.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it really was

Glad he did it, though.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Z is always liable to punch some sort of inanimate object

and put himself on the DL down the stretch.

Z is another one of those guys I used to want to see with the Birds on the Bat on his chest, but not any more….

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You made an important point that cuts both ways

“Harden is as fragile as Carp.” Flip that around and you’ve got what a Cubs fan might say about our rotation.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

can't argue with that

….now I want to post the picture of the drunken Cubs fan who fell into the basket from the game thread last night here as I way of not thinking about the possibility of Carp going to the DL again….

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except...

We have a propensity to be shut down by no-name pitchers. Albeit this is a new lineup!

by OldieWan on Jul 29, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see that happening now

Too much quality hitting top to bottom. When Thurston, Ank, and Dunc were in the lneup that was almost a guaranteed 12 automatic outs, usually one right after the other. Now, not so much.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It looks like the organization will increase payroll this offseason.

The reason it wasn’t increased much THIS offseason was because of the projected ticket sales (less than 3 million tickets sold) and of course the declining econmy. Well… the projections were way off .. it appears as if Cardinals baseball is recession-proof.

I think we’ll re-sign BOTH DeRosa and Holliday at market value. These guys are enjoying themselves and will love St. Louis by the time it’s all said and done. Yeah, yeah I know this whole thing is overplayed but you can’t ignore it. DeRosa has made his money.. he wants a ring. I predict he signs a club-friendly deal. I just hope we don’t sign DeRosa to a big contract (~4years). Two years with a club option would be nice 1 year would be even better.

Pineiro will get big bucks if he wants it and I don’t think he’ll be worth what he gets paid. The only chance the Cards get him back is if management convinces him he is only good so long as Dave Duncan is by his side.

THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think DeRosa might get something like 2/20 somewhere

I doubt anyone offers him 3 unless it’s for very little money more than the typical 2 yr deal. I could see a few folks being interested at 2/16, one or two prepared to go 2/20, and maybe an offer like 3/22 would actually get it done for more guaranteed years. Again, I’d go to 3/22, I just wouldn’t want to guarantee the guy more than about $20m.

2/16 would be an absolute steal and we can’t let him go if he’s that cheap. He’ll probably provide that value in one season….

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2/16 would be unbelievable.

I would think Dero would have more suitors than Holliday b/c of price but I dont think any team is going to break the bank for him. 3/30 is a possibility, I think.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I'd have to pass, with a heavy heart

not sure we could afford to pay 37-year-old DeRosa $10m in 2012.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing not very much

it’s a fairly minor surgery, I think, to repair the tendon sheath. Providing it’s successful, I can’t see it affecting him for more than 4 or 5 months. But I am certainly no expert. At least we’ll know (by the time we have to offer arby/consider re-signing him) that it’s been a success.

On e gamble would be to offer an extension BEFORE he has the surgery, saying “here’s $12m for the next two years, take it or leave it, but if the surgery doesn’t go well you might not make any money at all next year…”.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's an interesting idea

A low-base, high-ceiling incentive-based deal might not be totally out of the question. I’m guessing he’ll get guaranteed money somewhere, though.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it would take a nose dive

for Dero not to get guaranteed money over a 2 or 3 year contract.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Surgery

But isn’t the injury the same that had the Red Sox sitting Ortiz out for lack of production and the Brewers trading for a 2nd basemen?

Any doctors in the house?

by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thought Ortiz was different

in that he had a complete tear or separation (same with Weeks) but DeRo’s is just a strain/partial tear that can’t get any worse.

Could be off on that, though.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are correct on that

Ortiz had a complete tear of the sheath and Dero’s is called a tear but is more like a strain/partial tear.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Even a blind squirrel like me finds an acorn every now and then.

Thanks!!

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ENGAGE!!!

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

[starts baking pies]

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 30, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what kind of pie? coconut cream is always a winner

and who’s making the brownies?

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post

I agree with almost all of it, but I have a couple of caveats:

  • I don’t see any team wanting to part with a young pitching prospect for Daryl Jones or Jones/Schumaker. Outfield prospects like Jones aren’t all that rare and top pitching prospects are. I think the team would be better off keeping him in case of an injury to any of the outfielders on the roster since he can play all three outfield positions well. Prospect for prospect trades rarely ever happen, so unless you’re dealing Jones for a veteran third baseman with juice left in his bat or a veteran 3rd starter with innings-eater stuff, I say keep him.
  • I think you have to offer DeRosa at least a two year deal. He’s on his way to hitting 25+ homers this season, SOMEBODY is going to offer him at least a two year deal making way more per annum than what he’ll likely get in arbitration. In my post on payroll obligations I theorized offering him a 2Y$16M deal, but I don’t think that 2Y$20M or 3Y$25M is really out of the question.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would be happy with 2/20

I also agree about Tools. No way the Sawx give us Buccholz for him. I’d like to make a multi-player tilt at someone like Slowey or Cain but realistically I don’t think we have the pieces for that.

Also, the free agent market is FULL of potentially cheap, potentially signable on 1 year deal starters, and not a great deal of 3Bs. If we can’t get DeRo and Glaus isn’t viable, I’d be happy to trade Tools for someone who can handle 3B and get someone like Duschsherer or Penny for <$10m to be our 4th starter.

But yeah, I’m pretty high on DeRosa too. His versatility alone is worth a great deal (we likely won’t have much depth in AAA next year so a solid right-handed hitter who can play every position on the field except C, SS and CF is very valuable to us).

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't get me wrong

I love Albert. But I’d rather sign him for 5 years at $28 million a year than 10 years at $23 million a year. Hey, if after 5 years, he is still great, you can always resign him.

by tarakas on Jul 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As someone who...

cursed the name Wesley Wright for walking the Cubs back into yesterday’s game, let me be the first to apologize:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4363008

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post RB

A sensible path forward; let’s hope Moz and DeWitt are thinking along these lines as well. I think you’re absolutely right that the draft strategy going forward needs to remain aggressive if we manage to resign Holliday and/or DeRosa. On Albert’s contract, though, I agree w/tarakas above — I’d try 6-7 years for Albert, maybe 8 if I had to, but 10 years is too much for a guy about to turn 30, even someone as good as AP.

Can’t believe the Tribe gave up Lee to the Phils for so little. With Lee/Hamels as a 1-2 and their offense, the Phils will be tough to beat in the playoffs.

by DCRedbird on Jul 29, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Extra tidbit here
Consider signing Rasmus to a long-term deal during the 2010 season. Think Evan Longoria here.

As it turns out, Rasmus is represented by the same agent as Longoria. Fingers crossed.

Not that Rasmus would sign a deal that team-friendly — Longoria was signed only three days after being promoted so that he would have no performance as leverage. I imagine the Rays said, “Here’s millions of dollars, take it or leave it — just keep in mind that if you flop or get injured, you’ll never see 7 digits.” Crafty Rays.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agent: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!"

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who knew that "W" stood for "The Who"?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fool me once, strike one

Fool me twice, strike…three…

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw him a few months ago..

Doing his sleepingwalking thing. It was amazing.

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a very very perplexing move by Longoria

That guy is an absolute monster and is signed for pennies on the dollar.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW, for VEB day,

if that ever happens, a nice way to save a quick 10 bucks is to enter the coupon code AAA when purchasing the tickets. This makes SRO tickets $6 and bleachers seats $12.

Also, 12 is the cut-off for group discounts.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 3:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Chicag Sun-Times....

….says Josh Fields (just sent down to AAA) wants out of Chicago. Shuold we trade for him to nail down 3rd base for the next cowever many years?
:=8.

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

nah... don't the Cards have too many 3b as it is?

Fields doesn’t strike me as being better than Craig….. but I’m not a stat guy.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Young...

…and has power – strikes out a lot, though. He’s pretty much done in Chicago, OzGui pretty mooch chewed him up and spat him out.
:=8/

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm, interesting.

Fields is the guy the Cardinals wanted to draft in the first round of 2004, and then scrambled to decide between Phil Hughes and Chris Lambert when the White Sox took him. He hasn’t adjusted to the big leagues yet, but he’s still quite athletic. Might be worth taking a flier on, but I wouldn’t consider him a long-term solution by any means.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ughhhhh....

….we chose Chris Lambert over Phil Hughes??? Gosh, we suck…
:=8P

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup.

Also took Tyler Greene over Clay Buchholz after having Buchholz in Busch Stadium for a private workout three days before the draft and passed over Chase Utley way back in the day. The history of Cardinal drafts is a rather dark one at times.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols is our trump card though

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Utley wasn't considered a monster prospect coming out of college though, was he?

I thought he went in like the 30-somethingth pick….

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope.

Cardinal picked 13th, took Shaun Boyd, Utley went 19th.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shaun Boyd!

:=8(

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oil Can's son.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Guess He Was...

…pint-sized…
;=8)

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

®

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2009 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All depends on what the asking price is...

It looks to me like Beckham might be their starter at 3B for a while, unless they move him back over to SS, which doesn’t seem likely to me. If they are truly done with Fields and we can pick him up for a minor C grade prospect — similar to what we did with Anthony Reyes, then I’m all for it. I’m just not sure he’s ever going to hit well enough to man 3B at the big league level — he strikes out way to much and doesn’t look to have 30 HR power.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 29, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kenny Williams told him and Brian Anderson

that if they weren’t gonna play them at the top level he’d trade them.

I assume “he’s quite athletic” means “his 3b defense is bad.”

by sdrone on Jul 29, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great, great post RB

I think you articulated a lot of my opinions there. I’d really like to see us pick up DeRosa for two years if we can, but I agree that the arby offer & potentially letting him walk if someone comes in with a big multi-year deal is sensible. What would you do with Glaus? No-one seems keen on offering him arby, but my feeling is that if he’s healthy and if there’s a good chance he costs ~$12m that we should make that offer (if we can’t get DeRosa). I’m not convinced he WILL actually be healthy by next spring, but I do feel we need someone not named Freese or Thurston to play third base next year.

As someone said above, the situation with Miller (Trever) is also pretty favourable – we can offer arby, and if he says no, we get a pick. Lovely. I’d still probably consider offering him a contract as he’s been so good this year, but realistically I imagine the surplus value of a supplemental pick (~$3m or so is it?) means it makes more sense to take the pick and just sign another LOOGY.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why not try to trade Daryl Jones for a third baseman?

Personally I want to see DeRosa playing third for a couple more years, that guy is just fun. But Jones > 3B seems logical, doesn’t it?

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Josh Fields?

:=8/

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or We Cud...

…wait for Joey Bombs

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he's going to be an adequate 3B going forward

it was a bit of a desperation move this year. Also, with a couple of wrist surgeries, I think he’s an increasingly long shot to even be a productive hitter again :-(

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hence the Question..

…about Josh Fields

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Got to Say Hence!

;=8)

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 29, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not a fan of trading Jones

he’s LH, which suddenly isn’t a problem for our OF.

He’s a nice piece to have assuming Ludwick goes down with another injury, something he’s prone to do.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

RB discussed moving DJ for pitching, then later said we might need a third baseman, so it seemed like a natural suggestion.

It is weird seeing the big league club get so right handed so quickly….I think we got used to having several LH bats over the past several years.

Anybody know who the highest switch hitter in the organization is right now?

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Julio Marley. Very high.

You can't teach a hammer to love nails.

by the red baron on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rooms with Reifer and Hooker, yes?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MV3 (ca. 2004) = Tri-Young (ca.2009)?
10. Um, has Wainwright put himself in the Cy Young conversation? With all the talk of his arm slot and the lack of use of his fastball, Wainwright has settled into a groove (fastball early, curveball later) and has steadily climbed his way into the league leaders are several of the Cy Young indicators. Wainwright is tied for the NL lead with 12 wins, locking Ws with Jason Marquis and Matt Cain. Wainwright’s ERA is seventh at 2.80. Cain is the only one with as many wins and a better ERA. On ESPN.com, the stat mavens there keep track of what they call the "Cy Predictor", an equation devised by Bill James and Rob Neyer. Wainwright is fifth on that list, and fourth when you subtract the reliever ranked ahead of him.

An article recently on ESPN.com about the mystical barrier of 100 pitches showed that Wainwright also, entering his 111-pitch win Tuesday night, ranked sixth in the majors with a 106.9 pitches per start.

From Goold’s 10 @10.

Carp – tra: 2.73/tra+: 142
Pineiro – 2.91/138
Waino – 3.80/119

This marks the first time we have had 3 pitchers above the tra+ 118 cutoff for ace status. Three aces, folks!

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

tRA is an adjusted measurement of pitching performance. it's still controversial, but i can't get

on fangraphs right now, so it’ll have to do.

tRA+ is a scaled measure where 100 is league average (same as ERA+ or OPS+). so that means that if you have a tRA of 90, you’re below average. a tRA of 110 is above average.

somebody did some interesting work on statcorner.com and drew lines for what constitutes a #1, #2, #3, etc. pitcher. 118 is the cutoff between #1 and #2 status. 130 is the average for a staff ace.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

bah. confused?
if you have a tRA of 90, you’re below average. a tRA of 110 is above average.

should read “if you have a tRA+ of 90, you’re below average. a tRA+ of 110 is above average.”

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got that part

but what’s tRA itself? What’s it measure?

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a link to Statcorner for you

link

Best description I’ve seen of what tRA measures. It’s kinda like ERA or FIP, but it’s much more pitching independent than stats like ERA, ERA+, or WHIP which rely on defense more, and factors in more stuff than FIP does, which underrates ground ball pitchers like Piniero.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 29, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

basically, it seeks to be an improvement on FIP.

it gives a run expectancy to each of various pitcher-controlled events (BB, K, LD, GB, IFB, OFB, HBP, HR) and takes the incidence of each of these occurrences and scales to a roughly-ERA like measure.

midway through this, i see fourstick has given a link. follow it and see if it makes sense.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sort of

statistics make me dizzy.

I didn’t need that to tell me that our top 3 are having killer years, but it’s nice to have better tools to measure exactly how killerific they’ve been….and it’s interesting to see a statistical argument that says that Pineiro is an ace. Ha!

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If someone not named Lincecum

wins the Cy Young, I’ll be shocked. He’s on pace to strikeout 300+, has a sub-2.50 ERA and will probably net at least the same number of wins he had last year (18), when he won the Cy Young.

He currently leads or shares the league lead in K’s, CG’s, and shutouts. He’s 11-3 and will get another 13 starts or so for a contending ballclub.

Danny Haren deserves a lot of run though, because he’s probably been the best pitcher in baseball this season, with Lincecum, Carp, Greinke, and Halladay all in the conversation. But he won’t win it because his team never scores in runs for him when he pitches.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 29, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true -- i don't think that barring a meltdown by either party that we're REALLY in on that

award. we might get some votes for these guys, but a card is not going to win the cy young. unless somebody turns into april-may zach greinke for august-september.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Cliff Lee likely now a Phillie

So, another dominant lefty to try to get by once we make the playoffs. Also, according to Rotoworld, Roy Halladay is now a lefty:

“Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi says that he expects Roy Halladay to be a Blue Jay for the remainder of this season, and through the end of his contract in 2010 as well. “I would have to talk to ownership, but I personally would be less inclined to trade him in the offseason,” Ricciardi said. “I would think let’s put our best foot forward in 2010. We expect to get our injured pitchers back and let’s try to win.” Some of Ricciardi’s statements could be an effort to get leverage in trade talks, but it certainly appears that there’s a chance that Toronto will keep its ace lefty past the trade deadline and beyond."

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

he's THAT good.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with most all of that.....

Except, maybe, signing Luddy to a deal. I still think if we plan to resign AP and Holliday, and possibly DeRosa, we really need to move Luddy for a cost controlled player at another position. Surely we can find another OF to take over RF. Whether that is a healthy Ankiel, a FA, or a combo of guys like Mather, Skip, Craig, or whomever.

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Luddy in red!

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If thats the case

I want another guy whose last name promotes as much nicknames as Ludwicks. Studwick, Ropewick, Glovewick etc.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not sign him to a deal

and then trade him? I think he’d be sought after more if teams knew what he was going to cost over the next couple of seasons. If he has another monster year like 2008 in 2010, you’re looking at a guy who might make more than Holliday in his Arb3 season AND we’d be trading a guy who can OPS over 1.000 and is able to be cost-controlled. Unless the return for Ludwick is something like Clay Bucholz good, I say we keep him.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

many = much

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OT: who was wanting Wlad?

I’m seeing reports that the Reds have Wlad.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

is there a trade dealine thread somewhere that I missed...?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ricciardi's self imposed

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

?

On VEB

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Ricciardi had a deadline he was going to trade Halladay by – I believe it has passed.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

a trade deadline *thread*

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

whoops

I misread that badly. I didnt pick up thread at all.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would have definitely...

given Wlad a shot.

He was a beast at Tacoma. Not sure what to make of the 26-year-old reliever Jocketty sent to Seattle. Lookout Landing is underwhelmed, but his numbers are quite good.

I would have thought he’d be a good insurance policy against a Holliday departure. He has massive power but can’t hit a major league breaking pitch to save his life.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good plans

I like the plan. Just one minor point. I’m not sure Ankiel will be a type B free agent. So, you can safely not offer arbitration and let him walk. Other than that, sounds like a plan for a winner.

by stickman179 on Jul 29, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OT: other points I am pondering

1. Cliff Lee has moved from Cleveland to Philadelphia.
Chew on that for a bit.
Move up or move down?

2. How badly are the Nationals screwing up the Adam Dunn HR vs. wins race?

3. “Schumaker” I understand. “Eckstein” was despicable but an easy in-the-moment mistake. When will media people not in St. Louis learn to pronounce “Ludwick”??

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i don't think ronald ludwig minds at all if people mispronounce his name.

look at cody ramos. he doesn’t come home crying every time somebody calls him cobie, does he?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i cannot do the umlauts

but i do like a konig ludwig hefeweizen

especially during the summer

by BirdsonFire on Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dunkel hefeweizen?

And where can a guy get some to try?

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing beats a good hefe in the summer

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moo Cow prefers the hefers

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Hefers"?

Is that like “shemales”?

by santiagofish on Jul 29, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he meant heifer,

which is a female cow that has yet to give birth. at least, that’s the technical definition down on the farm.

"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial

by Shi on Jul 29, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

I just left out the ‘i’ to run with it…

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take a shot

1. Great move for Philly, especially when you juxtapose it against what Toronto was asking for for Halladay. Will be interesting to see how Lee reacts to the Philly fans.

2. As much as they’ve screwed up a bobble head night, the Natinals uniform fiasco, and their pitching staff, that’s a wandering, lifeless asteroid in their universe of suckitude.

3. My dad and I jokingly refer to him as Loodvick, because we know it’ll never happen.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. let me rephrase

Cleveland to Philadelphia.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Cliff Lee says, "all things considered, i'd rather be in philadelphia."

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd for

“Who the fuck still uses a payphone?”

Had I been drinking beer, it would have been on my keyboard via my nose

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Had I been drinking a Franklin, it would have been on my keyboard via my nose

Fixed.

by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Franklin sucks

Just thought I’d get that out of the way during warm ups

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

RE: #2

Take this sentence:

How badly are the Nationals screwing up the Adam Dunn HR vs. wins race?

Delete everything beyond the word “up,” insert any random set of words, and then answer VERY VERY BADLY. That’s your answer. Except if you were to write “—losing?” Because they’re not screwing that up AT ALL!

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 29, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You just said Word Up.

One of my favorite songs of all time.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My husband

always mispronounced that name. He got sick of my eye-rolls and stopped. He still doesn’t say the “ck” as hard as he should, though.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you can get away with a pure German pronunciation

of Ludwig. The prevalence of hard G’s at the end is kinda sad.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and to think I was actually going to change my avatar

I should have known better

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 29, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should never change your avatar.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rack em

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2009 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

M's and Pirates make a swap...

M’s get Ian Snell and Jack Wilson

Pirates get Jeff Clement, Ronny Cedeno, Brett Lorin, Aaron Pribanic, and Nathan Adcock

Dave Cameron on the subject: LINKY

Interesting trade…Huntington gets out from under that weird Wilson contract (which seems insane given his lack of hitting skills and PITT’s payroll limitations, but he is a great glove man and is give or take a 2 win player) and gets rid of Snell, who seemed to have no future there anymore. In return they get some interesting talent w/ Clement and the three pitchers.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tonight's lineup

Via P-D:

1. Julio Lugo, 2B
2. Mark DeRosa, 3B
3. Albert Pujols, 1B
4. Matt Holliday, LF
5. Ryan Ludwick, CF
6. Nick Stavinoha, RF
7. Yadier Molina, C
8. Brendan Ryan, SS
9. Joel Pineiro, P

by santiagofish on Jul 29, 2009 5:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What the fuck?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh man

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you've got to be kidding me....

He had decided to live forever, or to die in the attempt

by slash2049 on Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why cant Rasums start against a lefty?

Im done with Stavinoha.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well...

dicky pulled his groin and cheese did take some cortisone injections the other day…

by BirdsonFire on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

now I'm worried about cheese

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Piniero better allow only about 3 fly balls

to get around that piss poor defense.

by TheBirds on Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

seems to be about the norm with him.

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy balls.

Stavinoha? What? Ludwick in CF? What? What?

head explodes

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

stand down.

i was afraid of this. i think this is what happens when rasmus’s heel and ankiel’s groin start barking simultaneously. i don’t think this is tony la russa’s fever dream lineup.

if these injuries don’t look likely to relent soon, can we see jon jay soon as a defensive replacement in center? or at least replace stav with allen craig?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently Colby's recovery isn't over,

despite him playing last night. We need the infection to go back to Memphis in place of Craig.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it has to be

no way TLR would sacrifice that much defense just to get Stavinoha in the lineup

by dcfcblues on Jul 29, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. TLR is not worried about getting starts for Fat Miles.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough,

But Colby-Wan’s heel seems to be a lingering deal. Maybe they should look to DL him and bring up someone, so Ludwick doesn’t have to play center.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we'll see what happens.

i really don’t see the downside of adding jay to the roster and replacing stavinoha.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, no, not Jay

We need a pitcher, not a belly itcher!!

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it is all injury.....

Ras is 5 for his last 50. Kershaw kills lefties. Coupled with the injury, you get this lineup.

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you have successfully argued that tony is dumber than i think he is.

congratulations.

sorry, adding nick stavinoha’s sucktastic defense and bat to this lineup and diminishing our centerfield defense does not make this move make sense as a platoon split move. that is pretty clearly a net negative for this team.

but i’m open to convincing if you want to try to show me that tony makes dumb-ass moves based on small sample sizes and underestimating defensive contributions.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

is Ludwick that atrocious of a CF?

He’s looked pretty damn good in RF recently….if both Ank & Ras are hurting, I don’t think it’s an terrible idea to rest em both, and give the 4th OFer a spot start with the major leagues’ most extreme GB pitcher on the mound.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's not atrocious. he doesn't have enough time in CF to make conclusions.

he’s probably not worse than ankiel (like a -5 run CF) but the step down from colby is pretty substantial.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there anyway to shade Luddy over towards right to help cover Stav

and have Brendan cover shallow left and toward the line while playing SS as well.

 Fuck it. Let’s hope that the Angels in the Outfield show up and give us some help tonite.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

an angel would throw out it's back trying to lift Stavi.

not even the power of a little boy’s dream can help him out there.

by TheBirds on Jul 29, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan

Almost looks like a softball rover out there half the time anyway. I am amazed by how deep he’s able to play and still finish plays off with his arm. Eckstein would have no chance where Ryan sets up most of the time. Zero.

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 29, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

5th OFer...

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why not skip in center?

i’ve never seen him play a game in center, is he that bad?

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lefty v lefty matchup

Is my guess. I bet Skip comes in once we pound young Kershaw into the mound with our right handed heavy awesomeness.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh of course

kershaw’s a lefty. brainfail! thanks for clearing that up haha

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was considered a legit CF

as a minor league superprospect, but that was a number of injuries ago. I think he’ll be adequate.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 29, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, long term

this lineup is goofy, but for one game I can buy it due to short term injury. Ludwick can cover ground in the outfield and has a plus arm (at least from RF) so for one or two games I don’t see this as a big deal. Stav is marginally better than Dunc, but at least he can put the ball in play.

I guess I can live for this tonight, because the other option would be DeRo in the OF and Thurston at 3rd.

I’ll take Stav or Thurston 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You probably mean

“Stav over Thurston,” yes?

by santiagofish on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, my bad

Over, for the love of God, Stav OVER Thurston.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can say that 5 for 50 means nothing.....

Since some book told you so. I think it is reflective of a slump. Slump + hurt foot + tough lefty = bench time, where I come from.

Since when do we need Vince and Willie in the OF during a Pineiro start?

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On 2nd thought, you are right.

Colby isn’t in a slump b/c he is 5 for his last 50 (something you all would beat Ankiel, Duncan, or Thurston into the ground about).

He is in a slump b/c during those 50 AB’s, he has looked like hammered goat crap. How bout that?

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said before

you don’t watch the games, so I’d expect this kind of response.

Over his last 58 PAs (the 50 ABs you came up with) he has 5 hits, 7 walks and only 12 strikeouts. Meaning, of the 58 PAs during his slump he has put the ball in play or reached base 46 times.

That’s some seriously shitty luck.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think it is

you must not like Corky Ramos

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was fine yesterday.....

I’m not saying he is “healed”, just saying he could play if Tony wanted him to.

Seems like a good spot to sacrifice a little D, and try to get a hit or two out of Stavi, while resting two “hurting” CF’s.

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

but Stavinoha is so bad that he shouldn’t be playing. I’d rather have Skip play than Stav

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh.....

And I have no problem with Raz. I think he has the potential to be very good in time.

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When he "earns" it, right?

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Earns being good?!?

Sure.

There are 3 things the average man thinks he can do better than everybody else: build a fire, run a motel, and manage a baseball team.
-- Rocky Bridges

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said [Rasmus] should have to earn it this year.

He’s earned it.

-You, June 10, 2009

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Delightful.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

June 10th was a bad day for my craw

Lots of foreign objects lodged in there. TWSS?

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somewhere, in the bowels of Busch Stadium

TLR is laughing evilly.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to direct you all...

to this comment.

Sometime I hate being right.

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Jul 29, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a gift...

What can I say?

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Jul 29, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's like you have inside information

Are you really Opera Card?

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, you guys were both on the money.

Scary.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who called Stavinoha

Starting this morning?

by OldieWan on Jul 29, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LukeMP1186

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well if you ever want to field a crappy defensive outfield

do it with Pineiro’s groundball tendencies on the mound. That said, I’m not sure having Stavinoha rather than Rasmus or Ankiel is really an upgrade.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Steve Phillips didn't know what he meant

when he said it

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sigh

please be healthy, Colby.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope this is just b/c of the lefty on the mound

…and not b/c of one of the following

  • Rasmus hurt worse than thought
  • TLR giving up on Rasmus

Any of the above is a possibility.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 29, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't see the latter

But with the Paletta school of Medical Buffoonery running the show, the former isn’t out of the realm of possibility

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

prospects for a win now player.

We could have traded for Lee and called up Craig. And would have been a better team for it this year and next.

by TheBirds on Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cards Rotation + Lee + Craig

does not equal

Cards Rotation + Boggs + Holliday

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure does...

we’re going to be the only team in baseball to give up a top 25 prospect, watch…

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lets just say we are dead set on trading Wallace

If we packaged the prospects we traded for Holliday in the DeRosa trade so that they would throw in Lee, how could they say no to Todd, Perez, Wallace, Mortenson, and Peterson.

Man, all those guys we gave up….depressing.

by TheBirds on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm happy with the moves we made

Our hitting was handicapping us a hell of a lot more than our pitching was

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you have Carp, Waino, Piniero, Lohse, Lee

for conceivably 2 years straight. The difference between Holliday and Craig doesn’t seem all too important.

by TheBirds on Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You only need four starters for the post season.

We needed offense badly.

Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.

by Red Blazer on Jul 29, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's tough...

Holliday is exactly what we need, but Lee is signed at a reasonable price for next year.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if we couldn't have really used a SP as well.

Upgrading over Welly/Boggs/Hawk adds a lot of wins as well.

I think the deal breaker is that Lee is signed for an extra year.

by TheBirds on Jul 29, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey hey hey

props for quintron!

by tomsteele on Jul 29, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Look at the pic of Lugo on the

Cardinals’ homepage. Scary.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Boy, he looks like

he’s either trying to deadlift 6000 pounds, or the switch that prevents homicidal tendencies in 99% of the population just went on the fritz.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know he looks like

he’s gonna throw that ball through whatever it meets, person, glove, brickwall…..

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 29, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he will murder you

with his eyes

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh

=

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lugo looks like he just tore out someones heart: 'WAAAAAAAAaaAAAAA'

Like something out of a Kung Fu Movie.

I'm the guy that does his job, you must be the other guy.

by The_teague on Jul 29, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lugo is

Bubbles?

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm afraid so.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If only there was a pic of Bubbles' face after his friend took the hotshot...

then it would be a dead ringer

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Well, the weather has made my decision for me

Raining here in Little Rock, so I am hotel room bound awaiting the dolcet summer voices of Dan and Al.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

so i apparently lied to you last week about watching the Cards in Ark

I guess it’s just my weird family who can’t get the birds. we got a new dude on here who lives in LR & gets FSNMW on Dish.

so, sorry about that.

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2009 6:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get it on DirecTV

in Clarksville. Cable systems, however, almost all have FSSW.

by ArkansasTravs on Jul 30, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really need to find more activities...

to kill time between class and Cardinals games…

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Jul 29, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh, drink

Hello?!

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OH SNAP

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 29, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BOOM

And a rec. Well played

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep... not bad....

my crass answer deserved that…..

My apologies Luke.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha...

You have no reason to apologize man. I can always take a joke…

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Jul 29, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just making sure......

good to know….. sometimes it’s hard to remember who is “safe” around here.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know what you mean...

But 99.9% of what I add to this site is stupid jokes, for the sole purpose of coming up with a gem now and then. So I appreciate all the bad jokes…

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on Jul 29, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's like we're twins.....

That’s all I’m good for….. jokes…… egg on my face comments….. and occasional fact here or there.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My VEB alter egos!

Sweet!!

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you guys are clearly ripping me off

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2009 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If anyone can take something, it's you.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WTF, when did my mom create an SBN account?

and why did she choose Luke to be her name? Is Luke really my father?

"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin

by all4tookie on Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boggs is pitching friday

But I think Yes he will come back. He just homered in back to back games

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few doubles in there, too, I think.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He'd be a nice Thurston replacement

for August.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If

he can handle it, I wholeheartedly agree.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 29, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a big if

but yeah, I agree

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you forgot "effing"

Man I hope he’s on the good meds now.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

doesn't memphis have like 18 home runs over the last three games?

when khalil, tyler, and allen craig ALL get two HRs in a game, is it because they’re really good or because they just played against the kip wells of AAA?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 29, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so did allen craig

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 29, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, tricky call on KG

I hope for his long term health, but maybe with the pressure off for him to be an everyday player, maybe he can be a productive guy off the bench.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Predict the last big trade before the deadline

I’d like to see what the members on the board think, and whether or not the Cards get Russ Springer.

I thought Halladay was a foregone conclusion, but Ricciardi has way overplayed his hand and/or over estimated what the market would bare for RH.

I think it’s Victor Martinez to the Red Sox.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that seems like a good bet

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Astros...

will do something stupid. This is a golden opportunity to dump the Lee contract, but of course they won’t do it.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who would take it?

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

giants?

could they afford it?

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know that many teams

outside NY, Bos, or Chi could afford that albatross of a deal.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just thinking about Houston...

they could get a nice haul for Oswalt (pre-injury), Lee, Valverde, and Tejada. Instead they just go on existing in this 83 win purgatory… The Cubs are getting in to this space and the Reds will probably take the plunge under Jocketty. We’re lucky our competitors are so poorly run.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that is seemingly what every other NL team has done too

over the last couple of years, so it’s not that big of a deal. When in Rome.

Plus we have the best team in the division now.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not the Dodgers

which is what is scary.

The Dodgers have held onto a ton of young talent and even threw some away (Werth).

The Dodgers are going to be good for a very long time.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

though they still have three more days to unload for Halladay.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I was more thinking...

about taking on monstrously bad contracts and then continually doubling down on a bad bet instead of starting over.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not take all of it...

I would think the Giants would be all over Lee if he were available.

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would love to have Springer back. We should have got him in the orginal trade for Holliday.

But Beane probably would want DJ for him.

Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.

by Red Blazer on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Done and Done

Put up the VEB Get Together and T-Shirt fanposts

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

cool

I am kind of doubting I can go, but I will check it out anyways…

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Over their last 50 ABs

Rasmus
5 Hits, 6 Runs, (0 HR/ 0 2Bs)7 BBs, 12 SO, 1 GDP

Ankiel
15 Hits, 6 Runs, (2 HR/4 2Bs), 3 BBs, 9 SO, 1 GDP

Pujols
11 Hits, 8 Runs, (2 HR/1 2Bs), 7 BBs, 5 SO, 4 GDP

Molina
13 Hits, 6 Runs, (0 HR/ 0 2Bs), 5 BBs, 5 SO, 5 GDP

So, if the point of the game is scoring runs, despite being in an awful slump, he’s been as productive as Rick Ankiel inspite of Rick Ankiel having the best 20 AB stretch of the last season and a half.

Rick Ankiel’s last 20 ABs have seen him hit 2 HR, 3 2Bs and score 4 of his 6 runs to go along with 10 of his 15 hits. Meaning, he went 5 for 30 before that.

So, SoonerFan, even though you selectively decided to ignore the 3 games Rasmus played in before these last 50 ABs (58 PAs) that he homered in each of them, I hope you can appreciate how awful Rick Ankiel has been and how flukish his last 4 games have been to put him ‘heads and shoulders’ above Colby Rasmus.

Looks to me like that young whippersnapper Ankiel needs to learn some patience at the plate.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

It’s definitely time to sit Pujols down and get a hot bat in there. Rick can probably play first base right?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 29, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wainwright was swinging the bat well.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Naw, he just makes the plays look hard

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 29, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's a leader in the projections

for the Gold Shin-guard.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what about RBI

how many for each of these guys in that span?

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but Ankiel made that great catch that one time!!!!!!

/sarcasm

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 29, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW...He hasn't figured out that half of making a logical argument...

…is making sure that it doesn’t also cut against you. For example saying Player X (who we’ll call Cody, b/c that’s what TLR thinks his real-life stand in’s name is) shouldn’t play b/c they’ve had 50 unsuccessful AB’s only makes sense if Cody is struggling, but other random players like Dick, Al, and Yoda (codenames of course) are hitting the cover off the ball.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 29, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you'll never guess

which cardinal is on the cover of espn mag this week:

by rannpb on Jul 29, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thurston.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

from the article:

“Molina is a throwback, a catcher in the grittiest sense of the word. He’s a master of an art driven underground by a collective lust for the long ball. In the early 1980s, when offense exploded and home runs became all the rage, many clubs started signing catchers for their skills at the plate rather than those behind it. In the ‘90s, Mike Piazza became the poster boy, and the nuances of the position began to fade. But no catcher can drive in as many runs as he can prevent. The stat geeks have yet to master next-level fielding metrics for catchers, so Molina’s defensive prowess is more anecdotal than measured, but his pickoff and caught-stealing numbers are telling. It all began in 2002, when, by his own account, he picked 26 runners off the bases at Single-A Peoria (the team didn’t keep that stat). In 2007, his fourth season in the big leagues, he threw out an astonishing 50% of the runners attempting to steal (the league average was 22%). But it wasn’t until last season, when he batted a career-high .304 and his offense brought attention to his defense, that he finally won a Gold Glove. "

by rannpb on Jul 29, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His grit level just went up!

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

awesome

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 29, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hell yeah.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weird

the best cathcers in baseball all have last names that start with M: Mauer, Martinez, McCann, Molina

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matheny

dude.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing he was talking current

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was a general "dude"

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meritek...

Mierzynski, Mosada… There are a bunch of ’em…

Please take this comment in the spirit it was intended.

by guayzimi on Jul 29, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two of those guys suck (one as a baseball player, the other as a dude.)

and one is really, really old.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't have time to read through all the comments

but shouldn’t we offer glaus arby as well..if he accepts, we have him on a one year deal and solves our third base problem…of course, i am assuming he gets healthy over the break…which i know may not happen…may be too big a risk…i think i just talked myself out of it

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Glaus will have to require another shoulder surgery

so we would be offering arbitration to a player who likely won’t play until June at the earliest.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where was the 2nd surgery reported?

I missed that. I thought he was out in his rehab stint due to back spasms.

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He still can't throw a baseball

Something needs to get fixed, again.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's some debate

as to what the salary he’d get would be. apparently in some situations (not sure if glaus fits them) the minimum he can receive is 80% of his current deal, which leaves us paying 12 mil for him.. i’d MUCH rather pay even as much as 8 mil for DeRo

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you guys think about the Mariners deal?

Or did I miss it already.

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 29, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good trade for the Pirates, IMO

They got some interesting pieces back for two players they really didn’t need that much…well, let me rephrase…Jack Wilson earns his money with his glove, but he is also on the wrong side of 30. Ian Snell has pretty much quit on Pittsburgh (or maybe it goes the other way I don’t really know the specifics) and prob. has no future there.

Anyway, Clement has his warts, but does have some use as a really good platoon-type hitter. Those pitchers have some ability, and they got three of them so you have to figure they’ll get something out of one or two of them.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 29, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was in Boston last night

Adam Kennedy was raking. He’s playing third for the A’s and looks very comfortable. Looked very quick with the bat. Hard to believe he went to the AL and started hitting. His knee must have been a problem for us.

Saw Buchholz pitch. Great 12-6 curveball and the guy has a heater. But he could not get his fastball over if his life depended on it. Was missing the target by 4-6 inches on every fastball. Strikes were completely random. Had to throw curve after curve.

Threw a lot of pitches. Have to say I liked him. His fastball has pop. If he can harness it, with that great 12-6 curve, he’ll be a winner. Red Sox let him stay out there for 105 pitches in 6 innings. He really labored, but think he’ll be good someday.

Cust is a funny looking guy.

Youkilis gets better every time I see him. Big Papi off to a bad start but has some nice numbers and a lot of walks, so the league is still careful.

Just win

by The Duke on Jul 29, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think hating Tony LaRussa

and having to play LF also didn’t make him feel very comfortable.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is it ethical to flag this comment

just for:

Youkilis gets better every time I see him

?

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jul 29, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but better at what, I wonder...

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

eating?

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eating what, I wonder...

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does it annoy anyone else

that we didn’t go ahead and sign Springer in the offseason?

I

by riotmute on Jul 29, 2009 7:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

meh

with the glut of RH arms we had coming in, it wouldn’t have made too much sense. having him now wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world, though.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

People sleep peacably in their beds at night because rough men stand at the ready to do violence on their behalf--George Orwell.

by MilCardFan on Jul 29, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rice HOF ceremony

Also in Boston last night, Rice had his number retired. Lot of luminaries on hand. Very nice speech thanking the fans and Jackie Robinson. Lynn, Fisk, Dewey Evans, Eck, and several others on hand. Prevailing wisdom up here is that Rice suffered from steroids comparables and that if the players of 80s and 90s hadn’t of jacked their stats, he would have been in earlier.

They showed Jim Rice highlights all night. Guy looked very intimidating in his prime.

Just win

by The Duke on Jul 29, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

good stuff per usual red

but isn’t it a little soon to be plotting out what the Cards could do? i don’t know, a big part of me is worried this new O isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, and the rotation is going to fall apart.

and you know what really pisses me off? we could have traded ARay for Cliff Lee in the not to distant past.

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2009 6:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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