Our hitters: The GRIT factor UPDATE

by mysterui on Jul 28, 2009 3:58 PM EDT

This is my first FanPost, so excuse me if I mess something up. In today's VEB discussion, there was a link to the Royals Review idea of the GRIT Average. I decided to do the same thing for our hitters this year.

The NEW equation for GRIT is:

(Age x 10)+(BA x 100)+(BARISP x 100)+(CS*10)+(Positions Played*10)+(Inches below 6' *10)+(Sac Flys*10)+(Sac hits*10)+(HBP*10)+Bonus

Bonuses

Better fielder than hitter +30

Good clubhouse guy +20

Team leader +20

Plays injured +30

And to scale to BA, EqGRIT is your raw GRIT average x .600. Here are the new results:

Name	EqGRIT
Albert Pujols	0.331
Khalil Greene	0.326
Joe Thurston	0.325
Brendan Ryan	0.323
Ryan Ludwick	0.313
Jason LaRue	0.311
Yadier Molina	0.310
Julio Lugo	0.306
Rick Ankiel	0.304
Skip Schumaker	0.304
Mark DeRosa	0.301
Brian Barden	0.290
Matt Holliday	0.288
Jarrett Hoffpauir	0.285
Corky Ramos	0.270
Nick Stavinoha	0.254
Shane Robinson	0.248
Tyler Greene	0.243
David Freese	0.227

For good measure, here's David Eckstein's 2005 season with the Cardinals and Aaron Miles' 2006 season with the Cards

David Eckstein 2005	0.526
Aaron Miles 2006	0.401

This new iteration of the formula, I feel, incorporates MANY more of the "gritty" stats than the one before. Sac flys, sac hits, and HBP? Very gritty. Multiple positions played and short? SO gritty. By adding in the sac stats and HBP, David Eckstein's grittiness in 2005 shines through with an astonishing .526 mark! I'd wager a guess that that is one of the grittiest seasons of all time! Keep in mind that these are only Cardinals' stats, so DeRosa, Lugo, and Holliday don't have the counting stats that the other players do. If you extrapolate for a full season, I would think that DeRosa would come up much, much grittier. I have him down for playing 4 positions (1B, 2B, 3B, OF).

Thoughts? Improvements?

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Comments

Haha.

I’m really surprised to see Albert up there.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 28, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions

Pujols is the best at everything

F%#& Billy Beane. Actually... I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 28, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Albert is just good at everything

So I guess grittiness comes easily to him.
Man, Eckstein’s 2005 was awesome.
I’m not worried about Ramos, he’s still very young.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions

yeah

but tab was never the same player after the elbow in the head from the brazilian at the ’94 world cup… woke up in the hospital the next day

great game up to that point… 0-0…

without our best player… our spirit was crushed

ramos was washed up at that point… quite possibly could have been the best us player ever if that hadn’t happened

by BirdsonFire on Jul 28, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions

I remember that very vividly

Freaking Leonardo and his damn Brazilian-ness.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions

he is now gooch's manager at ac milan

by BirdsonFire on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I think I remember seeing that elbow too

He really clocked him.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions

i think we must factor height/weight in also

if you are 5’4 and play in MLB, you are gritty as hell.

"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial

by Shi on Jul 28, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions

I like this..

one of the bonuses should be inches below/(above) six feet * 5. This would obviously hurt a guy like Pujols…but he doesn’t have to overcome a height impairment.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 28, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions

right,

but his uber-agressiveness on the basepaths, as showcased last night, more than make up for his unfortunate height.

"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial

by Shi on Jul 28, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Height=grit

I’m surprised the Cards haven’t gone after this guy.

5’3, 145. Yep, that’s right. 5’3, 145. Keep in mind these things are sometimes inflated.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions

He doesn't seem to have much of a platoon split

Looks like an everyday guy to me

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

speaking of which

shouldn’t there be a +10 for being a platoon player? they always seem grittier.

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 29, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions

That's a good point

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Is that

a KFC bucket on his head?

"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey.
The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
- Phillies pitcher Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

by saveferris on Jul 29, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

don't you mean Cody Ramos?

Schumaker: "Finally, we get a middle-of-the-order hitter!"

DeRosa: "I guess I was just an appetizer."

by tehzachatak on Jul 28, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions

But,

was Eckstein’s 2005 better than Miles’s 2008? Can we factor for number of positions played?

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 28, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions

You're right

A position player pitching is as gritty as you can get

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 28, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Missing stats

Headfirst slides into first base
Running after a BB
HBP/PA
Uniform laundering bills

I just thought had a thought. You could get hit by a pitch, run to first at full speed, and dive into the bag and make The Grittiest Play Of All Time.

by Andyfantastic on Jul 28, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs

What if the pitch breaks a bone, and you run to first with the bone sticking through the skin

and then dive headfirst into the bag…..is that Super, Extra Bonus Points?

"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 28, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Only if you run fast enough...

that your helmet falls off.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 28, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

but not fast enough

that your pants fall down

by ridgesee on Jul 28, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I used to knock my helmet off on purpose so i could be like rex "hustler".

And I would dive into first base….And I would cover my helmet, batting gloves and whatever else in pine tar. Do I get to be gritty?

by cdc81 on Jul 29, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Boog had a chance tonight.

Only it wasn’t broken. Pretty gritty though.

by cdc81 on Jul 31, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions

haha that's hilarious. the question is who is the most likely player for this epic feat?

Skip?
Aaron Rowand?
Eckstein?
Mike Fontenot?

by kalmavet on Jul 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

this is awesome

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions

You should also add height

F%#& Billy Beane. Actually... I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions

jason la rue

got his #1 rating for showing up half drunk one game and caught 6 innings before he realized he wasn’t wearing a cup and jock strap until the plate umpire kicked him in the crotch trying to avoid a wild pitch.

by ridgesee on Jul 28, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions

this is awesome

Larue quite clearly has the highest GRIT factor.

ps Corky Ramos? haahahahahhahahahahah!!!

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 28, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions

It's Gotta Be....

….that gritty pornstache!
;=8)

I hate Jason Marquis!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 28, 2009 11:03 PM EDT reply actions

I agree.

Facial hair, particularly over the top facial hair, has a huge impact on the GRIT level.

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson

by davethebutcher on Jul 30, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm afraid that our current mustachioed team would skew the results

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 30, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions

On the pitching side.

Gritty = Throwing at the head(Zambrano). And pitching with a bloody sock.(Schilling)…. and beating up robin ventura(Ryan)… and throwing a bat at Mike Piazza(Clemens).

by cdc81 on Jul 29, 2009 3:51 AM EDT reply actions

One rate stat I like for grit

Is sac fly per selfish home run.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions

We poke fun, but Miles really was that gritty.

He saved two guys in a hostage situation by beating the shit out of an armed gunman. I am NOT making this up.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Now THATS gritty

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/15/sports/plus-exhibition-baseball-houston-gunman-s-threat-prompted-action-minor-leaguer.html

by SGFCardinals on Jul 29, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, that was a pretty awesome story

I never found anything to dislike Aaron Miles for, he was just overexposed. He was far from a terrible player to have around.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I miss that little guy.

Can he be our head GRIT coach or something?

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson

by davethebutcher on Jul 30, 2009 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Brew Crew Ball

Did a few things on this awhile back…..

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2008/7/8/567604/the-unified-theory-of-grit

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2008/7/17/573908/quantifying-grit-brewers-k

by mtalken on Jul 29, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions

that all-grit team sounds like an idea...

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 29, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I knew I had seen something like this from BrewCrewBall

Kendall is clearly the grittiest player on that team.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Hilarious idea, nice work, and rec'd

Also, I just thought had a thought. You could get hit by a pitch, run to first at
full speed, and dive into the bag and make The Grittiest Play Of All Time.

by kalmavet on Jul 29, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions

er that was actually my cousin's thought

by kalmavet on Jul 29, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

scratch that he was quoting andy above. my bad haha. oy vei

by kalmavet on Jul 29, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Seriously,

I know Tim Mc Carver gets a lot of flack on VEB for his comments as an announcer on TV broadcast but you would have to include him on an all time gritty Cardinal team. He would run Molina a good race.

by ridgesee on Jul 29, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions

this is amazing.

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 29, 2009 8:55 PM EDT reply actions

Even after the update Pujols is still amazing.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions

ridiculously amazing

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 30, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions

one day they'll keep stats on percentage of dirty uniform area

Then there’ll be competing indexes with one giving extra weight for dirt on the ass and the other for dirt on the chest.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 30, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions

Adjusted, of course,

for material, since we don’t want to compare cotton from 1940 with synthetics from 2010.

Adjusted Soil to Area INdex, or STAIN+

www.mpgillusion.com

by ncgostl on Jul 30, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

Sholdn't it be steal attemtps and not CS?

The grit comes from trying to put pressure on the pitcher, right? Not necessarily just from being willing to be thrown out.

You shouldn’t penalize guys for actually suceeding at stealing.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 30, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions

Albert at the top just isn't right...

you gotta penalize for the opposite of grit stats like HRs, IBBs, SLG.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Aug 1, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions

A couple additional factors....

First off, I agree with Valatan that CS isn’t really a grit category, whereas steal attempts would be better.

Also, I think singles are gritty whereas doubles and home runs aren’t, so a good way to punish players who are too good to be gritty would be putting BA divided by Slugging in there somewhere. Therefore, someone with a BA of .280 but only a slugging of say, .320 would be rewarded vs. a .330 / .600 type of line like Pujols typically puts up.

Furthermore, I think clutch hitting is gritty, so instead of adding both BA and BARISP, I think this should be another ratio, putting BARISP over BA, because batting .240 but coming up with a .310 BARISP line is gritty too, in my mind.

Overall though, I like where this is going, and I think another potential bonus could involve facial hair. Aaron Miles sported the goatee, Kendall pretty much always looks like he stopped shaving 3 days ago (how does he always look like he has 3 days growth? Did he get confused in the electric razor aisle and buy a beard trimmer instead?) and I would say Skip has gotten exponentially more gritty since he’s been sporting the ’stache.