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The 2010 Draft: How Many Picks can the Cards Have?



After reading Fourstick's excellent fanpost on the Cards future payroll obligations and the subsequent discussion, I found myself wondering about what kind of compensation could be heading the Cardinals way in the 2010 Draft. I'm not very familiar with the whole process, but I think I have a good grasp on it after doing some research. If I happen to miss something or make a mistake somewhere I'd appreciate the feedback. Here are the links to the sites I will be referencing in the post:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/free-agent-comp.html - This is an old post but it does a nice job of stating the rules for the draft compensation of free agents.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/elias-rankings.html - This post is a projection of Elias player rankings up to July 12th. Obviously these rankings can change and are just a projection, but it is a nice starting point for looking at the 2010 compensation possibilities.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/10/stats-used-for.html - This post gives a rundown of the stats used to compile the rankings.

Any salary information is taken from Cot's baseball contracts.

Star-divide

Matt Holliday - The controversial acquisition and free agent to potentially be. Assuming Holliday isn't extended before reaching free agency, which I think is a safe assumption, he will be a Type A free agent. His current projected score is 89.59 which would give him the highest score of any free agent. This means that even if he is signed by a team that signs another Type A free agent, the Cardinals would still receive the highest pick possible from that team. You may remember this past off season the Brewers were screwed out of the Yankees first round pick because Teixeira had a higher score than Sabathia. That can't happen to the Cards as long as Holliday's score remains at it's projected level.

Needless to say the Cardinals will offer Holliday arbitration. I'm not going to discuss the finances of him accepting, Fourstick has done a nice job with the money aspect already, I just want to look at the draft picks. After Holliday rejects arbitration and signs with another team the Cardinals will receive 2 draft picks as compensation. A first round pick (as long as Holliday signs with a team picking 16-30 overall, otherwise it becomes a 2nd round pick) and a supplemental round pick. Of the teams that are currently in the bottom 15 and therefore picking between 1-15 there are only a few that may make a run at Holliday. The Mets being the strongest possibility. I would think though, that outside of the Mets, the real contenders for Holliday would be picking in that 16-30 portion of the draft.

So the draft pick haul; a late first rounder and a supplemental pick.

Mark DeRosa - DeRosa's situation isn't quite as clear cut. According to the projections DeRosa is on the brink of being a Type A free agent, however he falls just short with a 69.39 score. Should he remain as a Type B free agent the Cardinals would receive a supplemental pick as compensation.

I think that it is possible that he could play himself into a type A free agent. Since his outfield reps will be limited with the Cards, his reps at position will go up and that along with his production should push him into the type A class. If DeRosa does reach type A status it could be an interesting off season. I think it would be easier for the Cards to re-sign him if he were to become a type A as the team signing him would have to consider the cost of losing the draft pick. This past off season non elite players saw their value on the free agent market reduced by being type A free agents. Perhaps this could allow the Cards to re-sign him for less than if he were a type B free agent.

For potential draft impact lets assume he plays his way into Type A and he walks. Due to DeRosa's versatility and age he will be one of the most sought after commodities on the market. This will also be because of his cost. He could be an impact signing that won't break the bank. This allows for many more teams to be potential suitors making it difficult to project where he may end up. Combine that with the fact that if he does become a type A free agent, he will be one of the lowest ranked type A players. This is impactful because any team that signs him and another Type A free agent, DeRosa would have the lower score and therefore the Cards would get a lower round pick as compensation. Due to all these factors, I would not count on receiving a first round pick for DeRosa should he walk in the off-season.

What I consider to be the most likely pick compensation would be a 2nd round pick (possibly a 3rd) and a supplemental pick.

Troy Glaus - This is a strange case. Because the rankings are based on the previous 2 years stats, Glaus is still a type A free agent in the projection with a 82.97 score. As time passes without him being on the field his score will shrink. It is possible that he could remain a Type A free agent.

There are lots of options for the front office here. The most important decision will be whether or not to offer him arbitration. I believe this decision will depend heavily on what happens with Holliday and DeRosa. lboros and fourstick had an excellent discussion in the comments of fourstick's fanpost. I don't want to rehash. Basically though, I can't imagine any situation where the Cards offer Glaus arbitration and he doesn't accept it. I can't imagine he would test the market after losing a year to injury at his age and expect to receive more than the 80% of his current contract that would be the minimum from accepting arbitration.

Final conclusion, no matter what free agent type Glaus is, the Cards will not be in a position to receive draft compensation.

Rick Ankiel - Ankiel has a score of 59.32 and is clinging to type B free agent life. Depending on if his current hot streak is a sign of things to come and the playing time situation in a crowded outfield, I'm not sure he holds onto this ranking. If he were to stay as a type B it would be an interesting decision on whether or not to offer arbitration. Again, this I think will depend on what happens with Holliday, but considering he isn't breaking the bank now, and I can't foresee a significant raise, the Cards could offer him arbitration. Due to Boras being his agent there is at least a decent chance that he would reject the offer. That could potentially net the Cards another supplemental round pick.

Compensation or no? I think this one is 50/50 on him keeping the ranking and declining arbitration. Can we get half a draft pick?

Joel Pineiro - According to the current projection Joel is not a type A or B free agent. However, if he continues to pitch well he should easily pitch himself into the type B range. His current score sits at 56.944 with the lowest B rated player being Brett Myers 58.088. He should be able to break through that threshold.

I think if he does become a type B free agent the Cards would almost have to offer him arbitration. If I am Joel Pineiro don't accept an arbitration offer. I think he is making himself a lot of money with the way he is pitching this year and this is his chance to cash in.

Compensation: A supplemental round pick.

Todd Wellemeyer - Welle comes in at 68.954 score and ranked as a type B free agent. Even with how bad he has been pitching, it should be pretty easy for him to hold onto his ranking. It seems like Tony will keep throwing him out there, so he will continue to pile up GS, INN and K, which will allow him to remain a type B free agent despite being pretty terrible this year.

How he finishes out the year will dictate what the Cardinals do with Welle. If he doesn't turn it around enough to appear to have value, I don't see anyway the Cards offer him arbitration. If he does turn it around, the Cards could offer him arbitration and run the risk of him accepting. I really can't imagine Welle not accepting arbitration if it's offered. Would he be able to get a 4 mil/yr contract on the open market? I don't see it happening, but stranger things have happened.

Draft compensation: I'd say a 5% chance of getting a supplemental pick out of it, but most likely nothing.

Trever Miller - Miller carries a score of 61.745 and a type B ranking. He is pretty firmly entrenched in the type B range and was a type B free agent last year (although he wasn't offered arbitration and his option was declined). From the Cardinals point of view this one should be pretty easy. Offer him arbitration and if he accepts great, he's still a relatively cheap and excellent LOOGY. If he rejects, well that's fine too as he would bring back a supplemental round pick.

Draft compensation: I think he'll probably be a Cardinal again next season, but if not a supplemental round pick is nice compensation for a low cost LOOGY.

Ryan Franklin - There is no way the Cardinals don't pick up his option, but on the chance that some paper work gets messed up or something, I'll take a look at it. Franklin has a score of 67.603 and would be a type A free agent. He is very close to the Type A/B cutoff. His ranking will only continue to climb though as he continues to rack up saves. There is very little chance he would fall to a type B.

None of this matters though, as the only way he would become a free agent would be for the Cards to decline his option. They would not decline the option and then offer arbitration. It would be foolish, because if Franklin accepted, he would be awarded more money than his option is worth. The only way they could possibly offer him arbitration would be if they pissed him off so much that he never wanted to pitch for the Cards again, and they knew that. If that's the case, then they would receive a supplemental pick and either a late first round or early second round pick. I would tend to think that it would end up being a second round pick because Franklin would be the kind of guy a bad team would sign. None of that matters though because the Cards are picking up his option.

Draft compensation: None in 2010, but it could be real interesting what happens for 2011.

 

That takes care of all the potential free agents that have the possibility of becoming Type A or B free agents. Worst case scenario, all these guys leave in a realistic fashion and this is what the cards end up with:

2 First round picks (their own, Holliday)

4 Supplemental Picks (Holliday, DeRosa, Pineiro, Miller) +the possibilty of a 5th from Ankiel.

2 Second round picks (their own, DeRosa)

 

That's 8 picks in approximately the first 80 picks (assuming the number of supplemental picks is about the same as in 09). That's a nice way to restock the system. Also, if the unthinkable happens and the Cards don't sign Shelby Miller, there would be another first round pick for compensation there. I don't want to talk about that though.

I have no idea what next years draft talent looks like. I'll leave it up to the future redbirds people to talk about that stuff.

Comment 33 comments  |  8 recs  | 

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very good rundown.

i’m hoping that dewitt will spend the money to keep holliday whilst still maintaining enough coin in the coffers to re-sign/extend pujols’ contract.

i that doesn’t happen, however, i see the cardinals getting a good number of picks to restock the farm system.

thanks for the post.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 26, 2009 11:12 PM EDT reply actions  

interesting...

one thing about Glaus, the 80% doesn’t apply to free agent arbitration (Article XX section B(3)). Not that it matters. I’m sure they won’t offer.

Acquire Wlad!!!

by guayzimi on Jul 26, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions  

interesting indeed

Thanks for the input about the 80% not being applicable. I wonder how many cases exist where a player has accpeted arbitration and ended up with a paycut. I also wonder how that would impact the clubs decision to offer arbitration.

by stickman179 on Jul 26, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

a very good rundown of the elias ranko

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 26, 2009 11:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

oops

I somehow missed Rick Ankiel. He’s a type B free agent as well. I’ll go back and edit the post to include him.

by stickman179 on Jul 26, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

a very good rundown of the elias rankings.

Thanks.

I do have some concerns about glaus and derosa in terms of health. Derosa says he’ll get his wrist surgery in the offseason. Shoulder injuries can be very debilitating. If we’re serious about keeping holliday, working 3b with internal prospects like freese mather, craig, or descalso may make more sense. Even letting both Glaus and Derosa walk after offering arb and signing another FA like chone figgins or beltre might make more financial sense.

David freese’s rehab just became very important.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 26, 2009 11:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

sorry - "after offering arb TO DEROSA."

Not glaus. I agree about refusing an offer to glaus.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 26, 2009 11:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

figgins and beltre

Figgins is right on the edge of being a type A free agent. In the current projection he is the highest ranked type B, but Mike Lowell is barely in front of him. He could end up being a type A, and I wouldn’t want to give up a 1st round pick for Figgins. Beltre is solidly a B, so that would seem like a more viable option.

by stickman179 on Jul 26, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

3B

Assuming Holliday is the number one priority—I think he affects what happens at 3B. If Holliday does resign, I see the Cardinals offering Arb to DeRosa (due to higher sign-ability to other teams and associated cost) and if he accepts, all is done at 3B. If not, you make him and Glaus (and maybe Beltre) an offer you can live with and see if one accepts. If not, go with Freese/Mather/Craig and look for that Arkansas kid in the draft.

If Holliday does not resign, I could see us going after Glaus and DeRosa, with DeRosa being slotted as a LFer or 2Ber with Skip and Glaus filling the other sides. In this instance, you still offer DeRosa arb, and try to work out deals with both.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Jul 27, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that you have to lock up Derosa or give Arbitration to Glaus

We don’t want another fiasco that could possibly give Thurston more playing time(Kidding…maybe)!

Signing Derosa to a 2-3 year deal would make sense to me. If Freese or someone else proves they can man 3rd and hit relatively well, then stick him somewhere else. If Derosa get’s away, then judge whether Glaus is able to go through next year without any troublesome injuries.

Plan C is Beltre or Mora if we are so desperate.

Man, with this outfield, need to get rid of that Rasmus guy. :)

by Taskmaster on Jul 27, 2009 12:06 AM EDT reply actions  

what if it's a straight choice between signing Holliday or DeRosa?

We likely can’t afford both unless there’s a significant bump in payroll from 2011 onwards and/or we dump some payroll by trading away some other pieces/not extending carpenter in his 2012 option.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2009 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is what fanposts are supposed to be

rec’d. Good job.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2009 6:33 AM EDT reply actions  

agreed great read

I believe this is what is not being looked at right now about the trades we have made. We have an opportunity to either sign some valuable pieces for next and still shed salary, and the possibility to re-stock our farm a little.

Nice, but where does Julio Lugo sit at?

by from First to Third on Jul 27, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

O nevermind

I finally found him, bleh. He might be a decent pick-up for depth next year.

by from First to Third on Jul 27, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's under contract for next year already

and we’re still not paying him

The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.

by RasRoY on Jul 27, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not so confident about DeRo making type A...

I know he’s on the cusp…but he’s almost 3 points behind Blake, and I don’t see any of the guys on that list falling behind him unless Hardy gets benched in Milwaukee. I’d cross out that extra 2nd round pick if it were me. As for the rest of it…Great Post!!

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 27, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Troy Glaus is a possibilty

Glaus should lose value pretty quickly as everyone he is ranked against adds stats and he doesn’t. I do think it’ll be close for DeRosa. His versatility actually really hurts him in the rankings because only the total chances at his designated position count. Currently that is still second base even though he hasn’t played it all year. By the end of the season that should change to 3rd base, so for the entire first half of this season he hasn’t added any value in the field.

by stickman179 on Jul 27, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess he's a possibility...

but he’s got a LONG ways to fall to get down to where DeRo is. What may be more likely is that Glaus, Hardy or Tejada are traded to an AL team. I wonder when the determination is made for position…not till year end?

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 27, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

My worry about this is that the Cards won't offer arbitration to someone

Not Holliday, that is, surely they wouldn’t be THAT stupid. But they have shown a tendency to not offer some folks that everyone expected them to offer.

In my worst nightmare Welly and Glaus are offered arbitration and both accept while no offer is made to DeRosa, Miller, Piniero and Holliday. (Go ahead, please flag me for pessimism)

by ArkansasTravs on Jul 27, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

flagged, haha

"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial

by Shi on Jul 27, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow...

How bassackward would that be. Offer arby to the two guys that are likely to accept, but probably aren’t wanted. Then don’t offer it to 4 guys you’d have to be THRILLED to get back on one year deals. Unfortunately this isn’t out of the realm of possibility. Though I’m not sure what guys we failed to offer arby to that we really regret at this point…surely not Looper.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 27, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

True,

I wouldn’t have wanted Looper back, and there certainly would have been the fear that he might accept. Still, I recall lots of gnashing of teeth ’round these parts last Nov. when nobody was offered arb and the club effectively passed up extra picks.

by ArkansasTravs on Jul 27, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

We should've offered Looper

but we were right to not offer to Springer. He’d have accepted and we’d have been on the hook for 4-5m for an ageing, average reliever.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 28, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Some of these guys may take less than market value

The opportunity to play for an appreciative fanbase and with Albert Pujols might be enough to convince players like Holliday to take a (minor) discount. I’d be a happy panda if Holliday decides he likes the birds enough to accept a contract for $10M annually, and play here for another 3-4 years.

by JWO on Jul 28, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

that is completely unrealistic

Holliday’s worth more than twice that. He may like it here but there’s no way he’s taking a large pay CUT to play in St Louis. The absolute minimum we’d get him for is $15m/yr, and that would have to be a LONG contract. I think he’ll probably cost nearer 20.

I am yet to believe this “St Louis effect” really exists. I think some players might take a slight cut to play on the west coast, but do we really think that multi-millionaire ballplayers are really clamouring to live in Missouri? Really? Our fanbase is great, and playing with #5 is always going to be nice, but you could say the same with a lot of the fans on the West Coast (which is surely a nicer place to live if you have money), New York (less so the fanbase, but the money and the locale is better) or Boston. Do people really seriously think that Holliday is going to play here for 5 yrs/$75m if the Yankees offer him 6 yrs/$120m?

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 29, 2009 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Have to agree

15 million is as realistically low as we can get for Holliday. Just having the Yankees in the bidding might drive the price up 2-3 million by itself.

Man, with this outfield, need to get rid of that Rasmus guy. :)

by Taskmaster on Jul 29, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

it may be

a little unrealistic – but I don’t think so much as you make out. They aren’t taking a pay cut to LIVE in missouri. They are taking a pay cut to play there. I could imagine, as a baseball player who is expected to perform at the highest level for 82 games in one stadium – many of which are meaningless games, that a stadium full of appreciative fans could be worth a 10% cut. Some people are solely motivated by money – others less so. So if one player who really likes the game and has plenty of money already is offered a contract for 30 mill over three years in st louis or 33 mil over three years in KC – I could see the player choosing StL. Not all players, but some I am sure would. And not just for the fan support but the chance to compete for a pennant virually every year. I don’t think it is that far fetched.

by cdb on Jul 29, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes but

then what would prevent him from taking more money from the yankees if he is just worried about competing every year?

by KyleW on Jul 30, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Our fans are nice

but other teams compete every year, have more money, and would claim to have equally great fans (at least from the home team’s perspective). If I wasn’t a Cards fan, and I was a ball player, arguably I’d maybe rather play at Fenway, or Dodger Stadium (or, if I was keen on the $ and really demanded to be on a constant contender, Yankee Stadium) than Busch.

We don’t sell out every game; Boston do.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 4, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Boston also has much smaller capacity

we’ve outsold Boston this year, and have in most previous years.

All of this depends on the players’ attitude. Some like the relatively friendly local media that we have in StL. Some just want more attention. Some just want to play, and some would actually prefer relative anonymity, all things equal.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

# of additional picks received as compensation....one, a 1s, (supplemental)

matt—-offered arb but re-signs multi-year w/stl, as lohse did, for the same reason (wants to be a cardinal)—no picks
mark—-playing through an injury, pre-surgery. offered arb, but signs an incentives laden multi-year extension w/stl—no picks
troy—-no arb offer—no picks
rickey—-with matt extended and colby as the affordable alternative, no arb offer—no picks
joel—-offered arb, but chooses to chase a multi-year on the market, declines and signs elsewhere—a sandwich pick (type B)
todd—-no arb offer—no pick
trever—-offered arb, re-signs w/stl—no pick
frankie—-club option accepted—no pick
khalil—-no arb offered, not a type A or B—no pick
jason—-no arb offered, allowed to walk, not a type A or B—no pick

by ball in play on Jul 31, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

quite possibly

which would be a bit disappointing in a way. We really need to re-stock the farm, but I want DeRo and Holliday back in a big way (well, I could do without Holliday if we spent the cash elsewhere, I guess). Miller’s the one I really hope turns down arby and walks…

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Aug 4, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

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