Chris Duncan has been TRADED (OFFICIAL).
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT
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PrintChris Duncan has been traded to the Boston Red Sox for the charred remains of Julio Lugo. No links yet.
Lugo was a disliked player in Boston because of his inability to perform at the level he did in Tampa Bay. He will likely go onto the bench or may even replace the futile Brendan Ryan at SS, but Lord..I hope not. He also has the opportunity to go into a platoon with Skip vs LHP as Lugo hits them at a pretty good clip this season.
EDIT: I was right, Joe Strauss was wrong.
[azruavatar edit] To Summarize.
HL posted this morning that Chris Duncan had been traded to the Red Sox for Lugo. All the specifics (players & teams) were right from the start. There was a lot of noise about this upsetting TLR and DD.
John Marecek twittered that CDuncan had been optioned to Memphis (with his consent).
The Red Sox traded some minor leaguers for one of the LaRoche brothers from Pitt.
John Heyman twittered that meant the CDuncan trade was in jeopardy.
The deal was confirmed by Bernie on his forum and twittered.
Joe Strauss commited seppuku.*
*Kidding.
The Red Sox are paying all of Lugo's contract and the Cardinals get him for the pro-rated league minimum.
Matthew Leach is now reporting that there is a PTBNL from the Cardinals involved.
[end update]
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There is a baseball god
Wonders how Duncan made it this many years on the team. I sure hope this doesn’t mean Brendan Ryan is going to have to sit down now
bad move if we assume Lugo's salary
$13M for 1 1/2 yrs? Ouch!
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
He was DFA'd
Sawx fans weigh in on his DFA.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Jul 22, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't say
but apparently it is a bigger deal than just this.
There is word that Tony and Dave are none-to-pleased and there is a dust up about it.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
FWIW – John Marecek is twittering that they may be optioning Duncan.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I wouldn't discredit the idea that he was traded
and Dave/Tony went apeshit and instead Mo is forced to option Chris to Memphis instead.
Which, may be a masterstroke by Moz as it shows Dave/Tony’s true feelings about Chris. They are given a guy who can hit LHP and play 2B or be a valuable PH and they chose family.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because it's you, Hardcore, I believe you.
However, this altered the trajectory of my entire day. I have a brief and two hearings to prep for and now I’m continuously refreshing Cardinal Beat, Leach’s blog, the Official Site, MLB Trade Rumors, and the Cards page on stltoday.com.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This could explain why
Goold’s 10 @ 10 isn’t up yet.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Somebody call the waa-mbulance
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This could be the final straw, though.
If D. Dunc and TLR are really that upset, I wouldn’t expect them to back next year.
And if they are, I don't want them back.
Look, I understand supporting your kid/the kid of a co-worker, but if that gets in the way of making intelligent decisions then a line has been crossed.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 22, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cards won't finish in the top 2 in the division next year.....
(assuming we don’t land a stud this offseason), if we lose TLR/Duncan.
STL doesn’t have the type of roster where we can just go “let them play”. We aren’t a very good team this year, on paper, yet we are in first place, and have been for much of the year. IMO, that is b/c of TLR/Duncan. I don’t think somebody like Oquendo could step in and win with this roster. I really don’t.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I do.
but not with you. I’m on your side.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
yeah, i'll take action too.
most.absurd.statement.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Absolutely.....
IF it plays out that way, we can discuss it during the offseason. I’ll definitely be game to throw a bit of money down on it.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but we will probably have a better team next year
the players win the games dude
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about that, but ...
I don’t really care at this point. I’ve never really enjoyed TLR baseball, anyway. I’ve seen enough of Oquendo in the manager’s seat to know I would rather watch his team play. It will depend on hitting/pitching coaches that he gets.
Wouldn't that be something if TLR quit mid-season over this?
and Oquendo took over the reins.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
And we ended up winning 110 games
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
that would rock
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hitting coaches may be the least important man on the team.....
That is why they come and go like the seasons.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Except for Hal McRae
But I get what you’re saying.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
give me a break dude
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
Well it’s you so I know you are.
Here’s why this team has won games:
#Albert Pujols is freaking awesome. It doesn’t take a genius to pencil him into the lineup whenever he’s able to play.
#Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright are really good. Again, it doesn’t take a genius to start those guys.
#Joel Pineiro has been brilliant. You can give Duncan credit for helping Piniero transition into a sinkerballer-type, but will Joel, now that he’s had some success as a sinkerballer, try to go back to his old style if Duncan leaves? Doubtful…
#Ryan Franklin has been really good, but a lot of that is due to a really advantageous BABIP. I’ll give him one thing…he throws a ton of strikes and it does seem like people have a hard time hitting him squarely, so to some degree his BABIP could stay low…but regardless his results have been better than his pitching.
That’s the key right there. They have one hitter who is so good that all the offense needs is some help from Rasmus/Ludwick/DeRosa/Molina and they can score enough runs for their excellent pitchers. Said excellent pitchers keep the opponent down, and Franklin comes in and does his thing late.
Do you honestly believe the stubborn insisitence on using a 13-man pen (but only using 12 of them), the Skip Experiment (which is going better, but was a failed one for most of the season to this point), the blatant favoritism towards Ankiel and Duncan even though both are trash right now, and some of the other themes that have controlled TLR’s managing this season has been the main factor in this team being in first place? I mean, really, is that what you honestly think? Because if you do, you are the shining example of confirmation bias at best and absolutely delusional at worst.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 22, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck, use the preview button, jackass...
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 22, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I was about to admonish you
for using such a harsh tone with someone who was simply trying to comment, when I saw you were swearing at yourself.
Carry on.
by arch support on Jul 22, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
hey, man.
get a little feel for the culture and atmosphere of the blog before arguing with people.
as odd as it may sound, “franklin sucks” is basically a meme that has been going on all year long here at veb. basically, people seem to be afraid to admit he’s doing well because then the GOB will strike and he will regress to his mean performance over his career, which has kind of sucked.
so, yeah. there you go.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
I'm gonna go ahead and answer calmly
I think our success has more to do with the starting pitching than Tony’s handling of the roster. Sometimes his use of the bullpen is just baffling. I know he has a reputation for “getting the most” but I just don’t see it this year.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
the more I read the other post (lboros also commented)
The more I think it’s like this:
TLR runs players not-named-Albert into the ground instead of sending them to the DL
↓
players break down
↓
TLR has to juggle rotations to replace them
↓
TLR is praised for making a lot out of a little
+ Albert is ridiculous
= ridiculousity.
Just a theory.
…too much math?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 22, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Good luck, Chris
I hope you figure it out again / get healthy.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Jul 22, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions
Why would they trade for Lugo?
If if Duncan is a minus, isn’t Lugo as well? Why would they piss off Tony and Dave for Lugo?
Lugo at least has an OBP of .350 or so
Something this team desperately needs
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Lugo vs LHP
.333 and a .850 OPS.
Of course, BR.com splits isn’t working and I had to go off of ESPN.com
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So he's slugging .526 against LHP?!
Or is that his BA and OPS?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It says OPS
what are you talking about?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He thought the first number was OBP maybe?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yeah
Because I was talking about OBP.
I was gonna say!!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If Ryan goes down, there's really no backup at SS
Lugo’s not a great option there but unless everyone wants Round 2 of Tyler Greene, Lugo would be a backup.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I would
but LaRussa might play Lugo in center now.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
my head hurts
It must be Cardinals baseball… new millennium…
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 22, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
okay that makes sense
and JD, you are right. I didn’t realize Ryan was as inept offensively as his stats show him to be
In that case
I’ll take it - as long as he is not regularly taking bats (well-taking the glove away really) away from a healthy BR. Removing the option for LaRussa to put Duncan in the lineup is a nice advantage to this deal, however.
Can't Lugo play 3rd?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Lugo has lost more than a step
He used to have good range, but at this point he is a defensive liability at short. He can play, but you don’t want him starting there for any extended period of time. I think putting him at second makes more sense, and 3rd might be worth looking into.
by schlafly seasonal on Jul 22, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
IF Lugo can be average, then Brendon Ryan could play 2B and Skip could go back to the OF. That would make our team much better. So far this year LF has been way less than average so far this year. THis was a great move in my opinion. As long as Wallace isnt the ptbnl
"I don't take no anesthetic. Did Lincoln ask for any girlie gas when they blowed his head off?"
by boba schrute on Jul 22, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does everybody want to move Ryan to 2B?
The kid is well above average defensively at SS. Lugo has been well below average in the field this year, and even his better years he was just average defensively. Ryan has earned SS. Put Lugo at 2B against LHP, and leave Skip there against RHP.
I don't get that either
Its much similar to move the aging SS who has lost a step or two at second than the young, great defensive SS there. I still think Lugo will start at mostly 3rd or LF, or middle infield later in the game.
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
I meant to say simpler not similar
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
are you kidding?
there is not a fucking chance wallace is the ptbnl
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 22, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
holy fucking shit
©
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 22, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Adam LaRoche has also been traded, but
that is another matter.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions
Where to?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Dunno
he is not in the lineup today and they are saying he has been moved.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as the Pirates are selling everyone off
Can’t we get Sanchez or Snell?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Brendan Ryan is just as good as Sanchez
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not like Sanchez would be replacing him
Sanchez could play anywhere on the diamond. BR would still get his time (as long as he’s not in TLR’s doghouse)
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Man
Sanchez must have has a bad hitting year recently or something and that clouded my opinion of him. I had no idea he was hitting that well.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He had a bad shoulder
it’s all cleared up now.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I didn’t think he was that good offensively
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No one seems to know
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The problem with Google Reader
When they simply update a previously-read post, it doesn’t show up on your screen as new.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
MLBTR posted that it was the Sox at 11:15
My comment and bgh’s comment were before then
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not in the lineup today
and the clubhouse is abuzz with talk of it but I don’t think it’s come out where just yet.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
So maybe the Cards are
involved in some hot 3-way action with the BoSox and Pirates?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Sox get LaRoche, Pirates get Dunc, Cards get Bay.
I’m just speculating here……
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
Cards get Lowell?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Oooooo!!!
I like that better!!!
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
Makes more sense too
Pirates dump one 1B, get another
Red Sox dump 3B, get 1B, move Youk to 3B
Cards move LF/1B, get 3B, move DeRosa to LF
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
well then we got screwed
Obviously the Pirates just acquired Duncan so they can eventually flip him for Lincecum and/or Cain
this may be the most disturbing comment in this thread...
And Chris Duncan was the only one without facial hair!!
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Sox picked up LaRoche
That makes me think that Duncan was optioned instead. Maybe a deal was in place and TLR and DD got so upset that it fell through. No way the Sox would need Duncan AND LaRoche.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't for the life of me
figure out what Dunc could possibly offer the BoSox. I just don’t buy these rumors because the Sox aren’t that stupid.
Are they?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That is my initial feeling
Especially since the rumor is that it’s possibly an option. Kinda hard to say for sure right now.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Unless we're underestimating the level of Boston's desperation to get rid of Lugo.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
that's it
Lugo was DFA’d, and they just wanted something back.
The Sox need backup OF because of the injury histories of Drew and Baldelli. Most likely they will drop Kotsay, who has been their 4th/5th OF.
by schlafly seasonal on Jul 22, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice name by the way
I have a summer kolsch left in my fridge that I’m drinking tonight.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Can I get a link, please?
So, LaRoche to Boston? Duncan may or may not have been traded?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
It didn't work
Sorry to be a pain.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
trade rumors is reporting it
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
How would Lugo look at 3B?
I know he’s been rough at SS lately, but would you rather have him or DeRosa at 3B?
Here is what I can gather
- Chris Duncan WAS traded to Boston last night. So much so that he told family and friends.
- Things may or may not have fallen apart. Word is Tony and Dave were so mad about it they threatened to quit.
- Today, word is Chris is still on the move but maybe just being optioned to Memphis.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
I have a hard time believing that
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 22, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If that's true
I wish the following two things had happened:
1. Like I said earlier, someone had called the waaaaa-mbulance
2. Mo had called Tony and Dave on their bluff. Is the Cardinals organization a professional one? If so, then we don’t need coaches who aren’t acting like professionals. This is a business, not a family.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if this is true . . .
maybe Tony will watch his mouth from now on.
On with the (good) youth movement!
From whence did you gather it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That would be pretty obviously petulant, wouldn't it?
Besides, if C. Dunc is so “unfairly treated” in St. Louis, wouldn’t people that cared about his career want him to get a fair shake in a new place?
Here's what I can gather:
You don’t know what the heck is going on, and all future non-linked trade posts should be ignored.
I've now heard this exact chain of events from
two independent sources of information.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Two independent sources of information that didn't hear it here?
Because it seems like these things loop back to VEB this morning.
To pre-empt
No, I’m not willing to share who told me. They are people that would be apprised of the situation from different avenues of information.
I’ll hang the above statement on my credibility and leave it to everyone to decide what they’d like to believe.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
".. and I will defy any court order to reveal my sources and go into hiding if necessary…"
by ubeddie on Jul 22, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll have to trust you.
Hell, the P-D gets away with saying “sources,” so why can’t you? I think this shines a really bad light on the organization, though. This is starting to sound like the same kind of pissing match that went on within the Rams organization, and it destroyed them. The last two years have been full of these GM vs. Manager/Pitching Coach showdowns. TLR and D. Dunc are clearly not on-board with the organizational direction. It’s time for this to be resolved already.
oh, no, i wouldn't expect you to say the "who."
to clarify, tony and duncan were so mad they threatened to quit?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
+1
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
well they would lose in the PR department
no fans would side with them over this.
Bill & MO should have let them go & they may regret not doing it. i seriously can’t believe they didn’t. seriously, what combo could tell their GM & Owner if they trade a player they will quit, and not only keep their jobs, but said player also doesn’t get traded?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
I kind of wish they would have been fired now.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 22, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
mo should be talking
with SW’s agent and finding out who he’d want as pitching coach, and fire both their asses. The tail can’t be allowed to wag the dog.
I'm sorry...
SW? Am I an idiot for not knowing who you’re talking about?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha
I’m an idiot. Thanks.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems to be contagious around here
I caught a fierce case yesterday
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
me too
thanks for all you’ve done for the team, tony, but you wore out your welcome a while ago
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
they wouldn't have been fired, they would have quit
because they would rather have a guy who can’t preform on the team over one who can.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
That's why Mo should have called their bluff
If they threatened to quit then Mo says “Fine, we don’t want to deal with your shit anymore anyways.” See how they respond.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
wow. pathetic.
that’s really sad. thank goodness we didn’t draft shelley as well, huh?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Shelley is good
He leads AAA in HR’s
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
well, he was sent down to AAA from the yanks,
which would have been hard to do in this organization. all i meant was that we’d be dealing with two players who we couldn’t touch because of their dad.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
If a trade fell through because our manager and pitching coach threw hissy fits
then if I’m MO, I say, “don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”
Mo’s job: manage the roster
Tony’s job: manage the players on the roster
Dave’s job: manage the pitchers on the roster
by Ray Lankford on Jul 22, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I kind of agree.. I like TLR and Daddy Dunc
and when people call for them to be gone…I ask..who better? But, They don’t own the team..Dewitt, etc has not made TLR the manager/GM…so butt out. If this is true then that is very bad.
There's no question that they are both amazingly talented coaches
But maybe that’s the problem. They have been used to the front office kowtowing to their every desire that they get all bent out of shape when the organization wants to go in a new direction.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 22, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Question is who better?
Do we role the dice on a unproven commodity in overall team management with Oquendo…or do we try and woo away someone like Maddon.
Manny Acta is looking for work I think
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
acta is the man.
run him by pujols, and see what albert says.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
albert doesn't have a clue
he’s a good hitter, but i doubt he’s the brightest cookie in the shed
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Based on ...
His baseball intelligence seems to be quite high, as his play attests. This is really an unsubstantiated cheap shot.
yeah
he’s brilliant on the field. i don’t see how that necessarily translates to business brilliance and assessment of managerial skills
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
What does business brilliance have to do with being a field manager?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
it has to do with
selecting one
as for being one. hell i think albert would make a great manager. probably not a great gm, though
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
honestly, i'd prefer that he dedicated his thought processes
to “how am i going to embarrass the next pitcher that i face?” as opposed to “what is adam dunn’s real wins-above-replacement value?” and “how reliable is UZR in estimating defensive skill?” and “how many B/B+ prospects would i need to make this deal?”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
OH, I think we all know Albert's position on that
Albert has clearly stated what he thinks about UZR and whether or not it is predictive, and his position is basically that
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
pretty much
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
But, clearly,
baseball knowledge is involved in the process of selecting one. It isn’t determiniative. But the field manager’s main job is to manage the players. The more knowledgable players certainly would have something to say about the various prospective managers.
Divorcing ‘business/managerial knowledge’ from what the particular business actually does, IMO, absolutely destroyed American business.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
nah
mo and luhnow are good examples of the contrary. especially luhnow
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Those two are business executives
they are not field managers. And consulting stakeholders about personnel decisions is not letting them determine them.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
i’m not saying albert wouldn’t make a good field manager. a field manager doesn’t hire a field manager
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
And I'm not saying that albert should have final authority
But I’m also saying that it wouldn’t be crazy to talk to him, either.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
obviously
we should make sure he’s as happy as we can. but he’s one of the last people to accurately make the best decision, i think. now if albert won’t play for jesus himeself, all bets are off. i’m consulting albert on a personal level more than a managerial one
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
As Valatan just pointed out ...
how does business skill translate to managerial choice? If you are looking for someone to identify who would be best suited to manage a baseball team, then I would want someone with a high level of baseball intelligence.
Now, if you are talking about a GM, maybe your ploy works. Then again, you say that he doesn’t deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt on his intelligence, but it is clearly ok to show an obvious prejudice against his intelligence because he’s a baseball player?
It was a cheap shot, and it wasn’t warranted.
you say this because...?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
his love of tlr
is suspect
but mainly because i don’t have reason to believe that he’s the best person to be giving input on situations like this. i’d rather leave it to an educated business man. he may not be dumb or anything, but i don’t see any reason to him the benefit of the doubt the smart enough to have a say in managerial decisions
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Managing the baseball team is a skill based on baseball knowledge
not business knowledge.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Considering it could have a major impact on Albert re-signing...
I’d say his input is pretty damn valuable.
V, b.
i agree with this
i don’t think anyone is going to come close to tlr in guaranteeing he resigns. i also don’t think player input is the best strategy in choosing a manager
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it doesn't hurt to make sure the best player ever
is on board though.
i don’t think TLR leaving means Albert leaves though. especially if they would have left today because of Chris. would he prefer to only play for TLR? of course. but that’s only because he has a good relationship with him now. but that doesn’t mean he’s the only manager he’ll ever play for.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
I'm not sure what his relationship...
with the SW is like, but suffice to say they’ve worked together for 9 seasons now.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I vote the secret weapon
but only because he’s so familiar with the guys on the team and already has their respect, knows their tendancies, etc. I think he’s a no-brainer if change the guard mid-season.
I guess I’d be open to Acta or Maddon (who isn’t going anywhere, IMO) in the offseason. In all honesty, I think LaRussa and Dunc are gone after this season.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 22, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Think he'd grow a mustache upon assuming the position?
It’d be like having Groucho Marx for a manager!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'll take whoever Albert wants
I’m half-serious. I assume Albert will want Secret Weapon though. If so, I wouldn’t do anything to anger the Mang.
god
this team’s management is such a joke
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Anyone else....
wish Dave and Tony had been that adamant about not trading Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?
by dcfcblues on Jul 22, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If only his name were Dan Duncan :(
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The way I remember it ...
Duncan and LaRussa were busy telling us how Haren was little better than a high-end Thompson.
duncan was really against that trade, iirc.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
The way I remember it
there was a huge rift between the two over Haren, with Duncan wanting to keep him, and La Russa not minding having him traded. Might have to do with why Jocketty was traded.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
My bad.
I thought the two were in sync, as I know Duncan was clearly advocating that the Cardinals needed Mulder. Perhaps, he wasn’t happy about losing Haren to get him. I don’t remember that part. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry.
tony was later quoted as saying that was the biggest rift they'd ever had.
dave wanted to keep haren.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
i feel your pain
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Apparently some people don't like Chris Duncan
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
haha rec'd
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 22, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That's ridiculous
After 2006, how can you hate Chris Duncan if you’re a Cardinals fan? After all, it’s not entirely his fault that he is still being trotted out to bat this season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah different Chris Duncan
I figured this guy was politically linked guy but apparently he is just a bmx rider.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
so when do we find out exactly what happened here?
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
If its on the internet... it has to be true, right?
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 22, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please please be true be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please please be true be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please please be true be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please please be true be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 22, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
The front office stuff
who knows. That information was a little less clear. But what was clear is that Chris Duncan told family members last night he was traded to Boston. That is from the horses mouth…not that any of his family members are horses.
Maybe Tony had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. Maybe Boston decided to back out and get their 1B from Pittsburgh instead. But John Marecek who works for 550 KTRS also believed something was going on because Kyle Lohse was on this morning and talked about Chris Duncan in the past tense. John believes Chris may be getting optioned instead.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions
Kyle Lohse
“Not going to get too deep into it. He was our teammate and we had his back when he was here…”
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
What was the question?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
listening to that now
Sure did say in past tense
by creativereason on Jul 22, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Link to the interview
http://www.insidestlaudio.com/ITD_Audio/DuncanLohse.mp3
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If true, that makes this story even funnier...
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1031894
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
oh, okay.
wow. nepotism be damned, huh?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
way to go HC.....
nice job…… now if we can only find the details.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
that article cites this post as its main source. The world is going to implode!
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That guy should be fired
If he’s putting up blogs like this as facts regarding transactions. That’s just beyond stupid.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Good
As we have discussed at length, this should have happened a while ago. Duncan should not be making PAs in a Cardinals uniform this season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
so, now, not only the guys in the truck read VEB,
but the front office does as well?
is him being optioned to memphis better or worse than trading him for julio lugo?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Hi Guys in the Truck
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 22, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
Lugo had some use as a platoon partner for Skip and as a backup for Ryan. Either way the Chris Duncan baseball black hole is not a factor anymore.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 22, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Now we just have the Rick Ankiel/Nick Stavinoha baseball black hole.
Does this move really improve the team? It sure as hell doesn’t fix LF.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
derosa to LF - barden at third.
it’s an improvement of sorts, when you consider + defense at third.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
yeah. I suppose.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
Yeah right
Thurston at 3rd
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
i think thurston is wearing out his welcome.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
no comment
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
I'd say it depends on who replaces him on the 25-man
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
what the hell?
this came out of nowhere. so, has he actually been traded? do we actually know yet? also, i wonder if TLR and Daddy Dunc went “apeshit” over a hypothetical trade whether or not that’s gonna be a huge problem in working with Mozeliak now.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Duncan has now been officially sent to Memphis
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
Mmmm
Ribs
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
this is very very strange.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
and so ends this chapter of our long national nightmare
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 22, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Check this out
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
Whoops
Didn’t realize mstreeter above had linked the same site. Ignore.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm curious.
Hardcore, how/where did you initially hear this?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
agreed. how did this start?
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 22, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would he reveal his source?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i didn't ask for his source
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, i wasn't expecting him to say
‘so and so told me,’ or whatever. i guess…well, maybe it was a dumb question. i just was curious.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
its not a dumb question
perfectly reasonable to ask for more explanation
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 22, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
the way I see it.
HL doesn’t look to start shit like this for no reason. So, for that much, I’m inclined to believe it. But, even so, azruavatar has stated above he’s heard the exact same thing from two other sources so whether i know who the source is or not, these are two guys who aren’t out to stir shit up and I’ll take at face value on something like this.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
plus, i can see that happening. it makes some sense.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
to clarify my intent by asking,
i didn’t at all disbelieve HL or az. they’re prominent members of the community, in whom i would be very much surprised if they just posted some random made-up crap.
the whole question was a matter of curiousity. i was expecting something like “a member of the cardinals organization” or “a media member.” something like that. after thinking about the way in which i phrased it, perhaps i made it sound as if i was prying or disbelieving.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
yeah,
i read that. my post was just clarifying my intent in asking the question, because we got off on the tangent of your guys’ credibility, which i wanted to make sure no one thought was the reason i had initially asked the question.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Family members/friends
and media members are telling the same story and they two don’t know each other personally.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
it started with the demise of a hitter
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it started with a bionic neck
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a brisk day in Colorado
when a young boy, just coming of age on that very day saw things go terribly, terribly wrong.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
pics or it didn't happen
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/03/14/sports/14yankees_CAX.ready.html
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
we can only hope!
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 22, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Be careful what you say, because the question goes directly to Mo evidently for confirmation...
Just a joke following:
I heard we just traded TLR and D Dunc to Nats for the Washington Monument and Lincoln Memorial.
I dunno what the hell is going on. This **** is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S.
Crazy stuff.
So anyway, who’s going to replace Duncan? Hopefuly it’s someone equally dramatic, like Wallace.
Amaury Marti
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Why isn't this guy in the mix?
All he does is knock the cover off the ball. Is there something really wrong with his game that I don’t know about?
I'd rather move Lugo to 2nd and keep Ryan at SS
but that’s just my opinion.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
Ryan has been MUCH better defensively by all accounts.
I’ll keep the defense at SS. Move the bat to 2B.
The worst thing about this is people are going to take it out on Chris
It’s not his fault any of this happened. Something changed overnight. He’s going to Memphis now. Everyone will try to say things like ‘the organization bends over for Tony’s favorite son Chris’ or ‘Chrissy gets playing time because of who he is’ but none of that is his fault.
He’s just a regular ballplayer who is now going to the minor leagues because he is struggling. Hopefully he finds whatever it is he losses and gets his career going again.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 12:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
that's the other side of the outburst quote
Charges of nepotism cut both ways. LaDunc may be screwing with his career more than helping it.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
+1
I think to much was expected of him this year. He should arguably be on the DL not playing.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a good point...
…It’s not really Duncan’s fault that he’s just not the player he was between his call-up in 2006 and during the first part of 2007. He’s had some signifcant issues between then and now.
The problem is that he’s a in a serious black hole of stink right now, and yet for some reason he was still playing. Again, what is Duncan supposed to do? Refuse to play when penciled into the lineup? Option himself by getting on a plane and flying down to Memphis voluntarily?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 22, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Great point.
It’s not really C. Dunc’s fault that LaRussa and D. Dunc seem to be blind about his current results. I still think that a smart father would want to see the kid get a fair shot somewhere else. Playing for your dad, at any level, comes with the undue perception that you’re receiving biased treatment because of your last name.
If the kid really has ability, then he should be fine making it in another organization. The only reason they should feel that he needs a babysitter is if they question his ability to stick somewhere else.
One thing about TLR's hissy fit the other day.
Part of it was correct. Duncan gets an unfair shake in this town. Now, he’s not helped by TLR constantly doing stuff like this. It’s all unfair to Chris. Honestly, the best thing for him would be to get traded somewhere out of this division.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
I kind of hope he gets traded within the division
It’s alot easier to win games when you only have to get 23 or 24 outs and 3 or 4 are guaranteed before the game starts
/low blow
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I for one am happy that we didn't trade Duncan for Lugo
Lugo is DFAed and I would of been upset if we traded another OFer with options and cheap years left for a player that will be essentially free if you just wait.
Stat Whore
Just to clarify...
Lugo is only free if he clears waivers. My guess is the Cards aren’t the only team that offered the BoSox something in return (see Mets).
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
My guess is Khalil is the one coming up for Duncan
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
and no replacement player.
it’s either gonna be barden or craig, i’d imagine. barden for 3b could bump derosa into left. nobody really wants to see stav and ankiel in left at this point. craig would probably just take turns at lf.
the delay would suggest craig as a possibility, since they’d need to discuss adding him to the 40-man.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Except Leach did mention Glaus as a possibility
No idea if that is a hint or pure supposition on his part.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 22, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
OT: LaRoche Trade
Speier reports that the Pirates receive pitcher Hunter Strickland and shortstop Argenis Diaz for LaRoche. via MLBTR
....my quick smells like french toast...
Good move for the Pirates
Strickland is 21, and has had some nice K:BB ratios in the low minors. Diaz is really a non-prospect, but he’s 23 with some room to improve. Besides, LaRoche is below average and is being paid a lot.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 22, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
We get no better,
and are no worse off after that move.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
Get a little better defensively
on the left side of the infield.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
and a little better defensively in LF with derosa there. even if his d is just average.
barden has been in better form in memphis recently, if that’s worth anything.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
You and I both know
that Barden is playing LF. :D
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Barden isn't going to start at 3B.....
unless we face a lefty.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
I figure
vs LHP – Barden at 3rd, DeRo in LF
vs RHP – DeRo at 3rd, Ank in LF or DeRo in LF and Thruston at 3rd.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
whoa whoa whoa
the numbers of post in this thread say yes, but. are you ficking serious?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Just like to post a couple things here.
Since we no longer have to fight about chris duncan being in the lineup.
Duncan 2006 slash lines: .293/.363/.589
Chris Duncan WAR (2006) in 90 games: 2.0
Final standings NL Central
STL 83-78 —
HOU 82-80 1.5
I have a feeling we don’t see Chris again this year. next year is up in the air. but as much as the last two years have been hard on him and hard on the fans, I think it’s an apt time to remember some good things.
Also, this.
Pujols 2007 pre-All Star Break: .310/.411/.516/.927
Duncan 2007 pre-All Star Break: .288/.380/.547/.927
Thanks, Chris. Get better.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Chris carried the team into the ASB
while Albert had a bizarre start to the season. If Duncan could have kept it up, he’d never have had to worry about getting sent down.
His body just couldn’t take the beating it did playing out of position.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
And we'll always have the WS trophy dry hump, Chris
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
This is a good recap.
I’ve never been a Duncan-basher. I’ve always hoped we saw the pre-07 Duncan return. Personally, I thought it would be best if he regained that form, and was then turned into trade-bait. I don’t think any player gets a fair shake working for his dad, except maybe Cal Ripken. Then again, Cal is a certified HOFer, and C. Dunc was never going to be that.
I hope the kid gets better, but I seriously wonder if he will ever be able to get over such a drastic injury. Then again, if this organization was ever honest about an injury, maybe the resentment wouldn’t have built up towards the kid in the first place.
i agree...
… and if he does get better by resting in the off-season, he can still be a cheap .800+ OPS guy for this team for several more years.
i’m very happy he wasn’t traded for Lugo.
Can someone explain this
This is per stltoday.com
Duncan had to agree to the move because of his amount of service time at the major league level.
I thought he had one of the three club options left? Added to 40 man in 9/05, option used in 06, dl’d in 07, option used in 08.
Once you acquire enough service time
The player has to agree to go down to the minors. The same can said of Thompson
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
correct
per page 78 of the Basic Agreement
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
My understanding is...
that it takes five years service time to be able to reject assignments, and Duncan doesn’t have that.
Dunno what that statement is about…
When Chris was optioned last time
anyone remember the reaction of LaRussa and Dave? I was under the impression that Mozeliak had to champion having him demoted.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions
and he was right back up a week later right?
that’s what i just don’t get about this. if Bill & MO said he had to go, and Tony & Dave said no again, Tony & Dave would be looking for a job right now right? hence my confusion, i just don’t get why the FO would put up with them if they keep putting their personal feelings above the good of the team.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
but just like now, there were better players who should have been called up instead of him
am i right?
something just does not feel right to me.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Mo might flex his muscles this time
Glaus has to be activated soon and is being paid 15 times what CDunc makes as a major leaguer. The best thing for Mo to do would be to keep CDunc in Memphis until September, then only call him up if he is hitting.
Anyone wonder why Shelley Duncan didn't have a problem getting kicked from the majors?
Could it be the pitching coach on the team?
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
uh
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Chris really was optioned
because he refused to grow a ’stache
by saladdays on Jul 22, 2009 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm taking the Lugo stuff out of the first post
so that this can be just about Chris being optioned.
I restated it many times in the comments section.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
I guess we better be careful
Tony might sue the whole intertubes for this one.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
oh
well this is just dumb
i’m glad that dunc got optioned, but for barden? the fuck is the point?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
WOW that was anti-climatic
I was so excited about Dunc being traded to the BoSox for Lugo, and maybe it was part of a bigger deal. Now it is Chris is optioned for Barden. Whooppie!
Sadly, ...
this thread has been MUCH more exciting than watching this team’s pathetic attempts to play baseball lately.
Uhh,
at least. I haven’t been too excited about watching the flailing at the plate all season. I can’t come up with a single reason why Todd Wellemeyer even puts on a uniform. Watching them is a constant reminder that overexpansion has degraded the talent in baseball.
The speed with which this reached 250+ comments must be some sort of VEB Fanpost record.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
This thread
is like Colby Rasmus’ worst nightmare.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
I'll take the liberty of connecting a few dots
Maybe this is a situation where this has been an internal debate for quite some time (whether to send him down or even DL him). Up to now, Mo’s been losing (or at least restraining himself) but the answer has become more and more obvious to all but the coaching staff. Tony has clearly been digging in. Getting everyone to agree to this is clearly impossible. The only card Mo has left then is to find a deal. Any deal. He does, or at least says he does. Presto!!! Going to Memphis isn’t such a bad idea after all. It may cause temper tantrums and bad feelings, but what needs to happen happens.
I have no idea if this is what happened, but it doesn’t seem that unlikely.
it's certainly possible that Mo gave TLR/Duncs a choice...
… my question is why would Boston want Duncan? i know they DFA’d Lugo so they aren’t going to get anything much for him, but i don’t understand why they’d want Dunc at all.
Put him in AAA
and see if he’s healthy next year.
Which is what the Cards should have done to begin with.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
FWIW
This story may not be over with Chris’s optioning.
The Red Sox almost certainly wouldn’t be after Chris because of what he can do tomorrow. It’d be for what he can do a few weeks from now or a month later. Sending him to AAA while he’s still in the Cardinals org doesn’t preclude them from trading him to Boston. It just means that if Boston (or another club) wanted him for their AAA team, now THEY don’t have to be the ones to option him. Remember that the option isn’t official until Barden arrives in Houston because the club doesn’t want to be short handed.
This is speculative on my part and not direct information from anyone close to the situation.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I was just about to say the same thing
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
why does it matter who options him?
just so they don’t have to add him to their 25 man roster initially?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
but if they just picked up laroche -- he's a LH 1b, right? isn't dunc redundant now?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
one more year of arb.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
He is a FA...
and in my opinion, since Lowell’s hip MIGHT get worse, they definitely need a platoon partner to go with LaRoche.
I’m sure Theo will buy that.
Before I give this any credence
I still need to know why the hell the BoSox would have any interest whatsoever in Dunc. That’s the most mind-blowing thing about this AFAIAC.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the same reason he's still on the team
at one point, for however brief a period, he was a good hitter with plus power. The BoSox have a great medical staff (imo) so why not acquire a hitter like Duncan when he’d essentially be free.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
They get Chris Duncan
we get Lugo before he gets completely DFA’d and we agree to take on a little of his contract, I imagine. They eat most of it for Chris Duncan in return.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't see anything
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
Neither Duncan nor Larussa would have really quit
because you’ll never get hired as a manager again if you quit a first place ballclub because a player hitting .200 gets traded.
They blustered and huffed and puffed but ultimately it would have been a bluff. Or a death kneel to their careers.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 3:00 PM EDT reply actions
It would've been extremely arrogant...
but giving who we’re talking about, you can’t dismiss the possibility that they were serious.
Jon Heyman
cards# have looked at lugo. chris duncan for lugo was discussed. but laroche trade may end that.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions
That is what im talking bout in my post...
because TLR was against trading dunc we lost out on trading him at all…
You didn't sell the info
for random 1970’s Cardinal VHS tapes?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
have you two already talked about the tapes?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Aww, I feel quite warm to see two like-minded people coming together.
We should definitely set up a VEB dating service.
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
I apparently forgot Michael was the one I got the 1985 tapes from to begin with!
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were the Red Sox
I would much rather have Andy LaRoche than Duncan. And if they were wanting Duncan to play first basemen. … why would you?
But would you rather have both?
I dont know about Duncan at first either. I was at the game at Kauffman Stadium when Ludwick hit the grand slam. Duncan ended up playing first at the end cuz we were leading by a ton. He made a very very ugly error at first base where he didn’t even touch the ball. I wish I could show you how ugly if you don’t know what play I’m talking about.
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
If the chain of events that happened are true
and LaDuncan turned MO into their bitch, then we have officially hit rock bottom in terms of organizational hierarchy. I have been a supporter of LaDuncan because i think they both work magic(Duncan moreso, but i realize its a packaged deal), but now I have changed my mind. This needs to be their last season; we can’t be held hostage by nepotism and irrational loyalty to sub-par players. Wellenmeyer over better options in the minors..duncan and ankiel over rasmus at times…continual use of thurston until just recently…it all brings us down as a team
the clouded organizational structure cannot be good for team morale/communication…it’s been that way since dewitt made the decision to get rid of jocketty and kept larussa…the schism may be unbridgeable after last night
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
It's been that way since Luhnow joined the organization
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
true, but at least jocketty held it at bay
there is no shield now…its like tony has free range to do whatever he wants
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Jocketty was on TLR's side so TLR had an advocate
that situation has changed
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
TLR and Duncs protest would be warranted if Mo were trading Pujols...but not CDunc...
other than being family there is no way a manager and pitching coach should take such a stand over someone performing at level dunc is. I don’t care if we were trading for C. Dunc for a C. Dunc Topps baseball card, they should not take that stand.
did we miss out
on getting lugo because of TLR and Dunc dragging their feet? I know lugo is not a prized possession but that would be absolutley nuts.
i doubt it
i think they were pissed duncan was traded..so that is why the trade stopped
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
i wouldn't call
not having Lugo on the team “missed out” more like “lucked out”. I prefer Barden. But as as a player and a contract.
What about Lugo at League Min?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That is not really my point...
if the front office wanted to get lugo for dunc and could not because of TLR that is messed up…
lugo has been a hot mess on defense all year
and it’s been corroborated both by UZR, which has him at -43 runs per 150, and by people who watch him, who say he’s just lost it. There’s a reason the Cardinals could have traded Chris Duncan to get him—it’s that he’s basically Chris Duncan.
Perhaps Lugo...
could play second.
He’d be as bad as skip in the field and as good at getting on base. Then Skip could fill the Duncan role in left, which would be an upgrade.
If only against LHP
it would be an upgrade.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Deals still possible with the Red Sox
From MLBTR:
Boston’s big acquisition could be a prelude to more moves
and
GM Theo Epstein said in a conference call this afternoon that his team will continue to be “very active” in discussions
Not saying they’d still trade for Duncan, but its still possible.
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
asked about the lugo-duncan failed trade, joe strauss says:
JDS: Any truth to the rumor that TLR and Duncan (The Elder) threatened to quit over the proposed trade of Duncan (The Younger) to Boston?
The team is in the middle of a division race. The team doesn’t need this distraction. Especially when the player at the heart of the controversy has been horrible.
Joe Strauss: I don’t have that information. A source, perhaps?
“I don’t have that information”? not exactly the same as “don’t be ridiculous, no.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Additionally...
Cougar2011: Joe, someone on Cards Talk is saying that the Cardinals had lined up a trade that would have sent Duncan to Boston. Everyone and their brother know this is some made up stuff by a poster with too much time on his hands, but why not see if a credible source has a take on it. Do you believe it is true?
Joe Strauss: It’s hard to address stuff floated by people with pretend names who don’t even site “industry” or “club” sources. [b]It doesn’t mean it’s wrong, just that I wouldn’t bank on it.[/b] Derrick Goold is in Houston and may have more direct insight on the suggestion.
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
...site (sic) "industry" or "club" sources...
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Mr. "Strauss" -- if that is your real name.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I would be really surprised, ...
if any of the local sportswriters broach this subject. Given LaRussa’s and Duncan’s attitudes with the media, it would be pretty tough on his/her career to take them on on this one.
oh how i hate cards talk
joe has his head in the sand if he didn’t hear about this
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Joe doesn't like blogs
this isn’t new and shouldn’t surprise anyone. It’s the same derisive tone he has for anyone who thinks the farm system isn’t total crap.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Somebody call in Ken Rosenthal while we're at it
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
i will say Hardcore has posted some legit stuff on FR. I wouldn't discount his sources.
FR actually gets a lot of scoops.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Honestly
That is why I believed him. FR in the past has known before any links were out of impending minor league moves
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i remember being skeptical about the "todd to the bullpen" move, b/c it made no
sense to me, and then it was announced hours later. can’t argue with success.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Yeah, ...
heaven forbid Straus actually attempt to substantiate it for himself before deriding it. He’s a REAL journalist, so he doesn’t have to look into these things. REAL journalists get to sit and pick random questions to answer with generic answers.
I'm not really worried about what JSL!!!1! thinks
apparently being vague is ok as long as you put ‘industry’ or ‘club’ sources in front of it.
How about this one, Joe?
“Media’ sources corroborated a story that sources ‘close to the player’ originally stated that Chris Duncan was lined up to be traded to Boston. So much so that family members were considering travel arrangements.”
Oh yeah, and then there is that whole Jon Heyman thing.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It's pretty clear who Joe is plugged into
Once the guys that wear a uniform to work have something to say about this, Joe will have a story. I don’t think it will be long. It will be yet another shot at Mo and company under the guise of club sources of course, but we’ll have TLR and Dad’s PG version thoughts on the matter. As if we couldn’t figure that out anyway.
I noticed Bernie called off the dogs on his forum. I think he knows there is something going on, but of course this is going to need a high threshold of substantive support and people going on the record for him to wade into the pool. I think he went to bat for you as much as he could at the time though.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 22, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It's official
Duncan has been traded for Julio Lugo.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions
you left out the best bit!!
Will be announced soon…
give VEB some credit.
-B
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
As much crap as Bernie takes here
And I have personally expressed my displeasure with the “Faberge Egg Propogandist” line with him, I think he is good at his job and generally a decent person from what I can tell.
He was calling off the dogs when his minions started piling on Hardcore earlier. I was checking to see what type of confirmation he was giving, if any. When he did that, I wondered if he knew a little more than he let on…but it didn’t cross the threshold where he could say it.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 22, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I like him on his Radio show
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's important ...
that he wait for the official story in his position. I’m not criticizing HL’s work here, but Bernie is in a different position. I don’t think he should print rumors in his role. So, kudos to both Bernie and HL.
Exactly
and I said that in his thread early this morning.
He has responsibilities to make sure things are 100% confirmed.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
absolutely
those guys are at a disadvantage when it comes to stuff like this. Bernie understands that and works hard to overcome it and still provides value in many different ways. Strauss just resents it and throws cheap shots.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 22, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
what thread was HL getting ripped?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
never mind, i found it
idiots
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
cards talk = idiots
that was redundant.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
i don't know why, but i just wanted to see what they were saying
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Thanks for breaking this HL
Great scoop.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 22, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't thank me.
Someone else deserves the credit.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks gdm!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 22, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, yeah
The sources, both big and small, deserve the credit.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
awesome job.
kind of exciting to have one of veb’s own “break the story.”
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
i know
i feel like an insider now!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I think it is a feather in this sites cap
And you certainly didn’t have to bring it here.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 22, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed.
Yet more proof of the value of a truly independent media. Good job!
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So doesn't this trade make Thurston
redundant?
We now have a 3B (Barden) and a 2B/SS (Lugo).
Are we returning Thursty from whence he came?
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FUCK YOU JOE STRAUSS
AWESOME.
Great work, HL.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 22, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 14 recs
Thank goodness someone said it.
He can go eat a big fat one.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I told him to eat it
on the PD forums but edited it. Does that count?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I am curious how the money situation works out
If we get him for league min than I will rethink this trade. Lugo is signed in 2010 also
Stat Whore
we have him for league-minimum this year and next...
… pro-rated league-minimum for this year.
i guess this means that DeRosa moves to LF.
$13M for the next 1 1/2 years
I don’t know how much the Cards are on the hook for
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
i can't believe they ate the whole thing.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
that's a spicy meataball!
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 22, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, check out this quote mlbtr
“WOW what a steal of a deal for the Red Sox. Duncan is one of the least played and most under rated guys out there. Watch him mash with a change of scenery.”
Almost as misguided as this Red Socks Poster...
Clay [Buchholz] could be traded for more than just the three named above..
For instance:
Josh Hamilton
Grady Sizemore
Ryan Howard/Chase Utley
Either Upton Brother
Brian McCann
Lance Berkman (His versatility and overall production are underestimated b/c nobody cares about the Astros)
A bunch of pitchers:
Lincecum, Hamels, Verlander to name 3 right off the top of the melon…
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish the kid luck, but ...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Least played?! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
He's certainly under-rated.
Nobody rates him.
And there’s a reason.
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
seems odd that the poster's screenname was TLR2009 ;)
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 22, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard that Boston are picking up his entire contract.
What does this mean for Brian Barden? Any chance that Thurston can go to Memphis? Would we be that lucky?
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Mo...
is sticking it to TLR finally. You’ll play the guys I give you to play, and you’ll like it!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Awesome work HL...
Very long time reader but seldom poster…this could be the best scoop job I’ve seen here.
poor guy. what a tease.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
yes. "red sox suck, huh, shelley?"
also, what are the odds on dunc turning his head sharply as he exits the plane and hitting 15 HR in August for Pawtucket.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Ha
Hardcore Legend outscooped the STL media
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
it's kind of like "all the president's men" but with baseball!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I think the less we all learned today is
score one for people with fake names.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions
That's ok
I thought your real name was Axel!
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Fritz is Eddie Murphy! Everything makes sense now!
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
If I were called Legend
I’d name my child Hardcore in your honour.
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The deal was settled last night.
Per Strauss, who finally believes this isn’t a myth, they had to wait for Lugo to clear waivers.
w/r/t the rest of the noise about TLR/DD we may never get the full story there.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I hope the print guys really go after them
about this. There is smoke there.
Tony comes out Monday and rips the media about Duncan. Not even 24 hours later, Duncan was traded.
This is where the ‘access’ they protect comes into play. Find out what happened with Dave and Tony.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
and the Sox are paying Lugo's salary
Wow.
Think Mo can throw in a bonus for Theo: Joe Thurston????
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
Why did they have to wait for the waivers?
It’s before the trade deadline.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
If it happens before he clears waivers
they have to send money and get it okayed by Selig’s office. Probably easier to just wait out the waivers at this point.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
If Lugo cleared waivers
wouldn’t he be free to sign with any team? In which case, why would we have to trade Duncan for him? I’m relying on Cot’s contracts info for my interpretation and I will admit I’m confused.
That would cost us more money
because we would have to pay him minimum. We are paying him nothing, right?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought they said Boston was picking up his entire salary
pro-rated min would only be if we signed him after he was DFA’d, no?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I'm wrong about this
and you are correct. I’m never good with the technicalities of rosters.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
that's definitely the missing piece here.
since HL’s original report came way ahead of the media, that lends a lot of credence to the TLR/DD tiff.
come on, let’s get some real journalist work done here!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I think my head just exploded
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 22, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kudos to Mo
for making moves (DeRosa, Lugo). He’s trying.
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by gocards62 on Jul 22, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully
this will work out as well as the last reclamation project we got from Boston (specifically his 2009 levels).
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
at least we aren't paying Lugo
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
will the Cards actually have a real MIF now?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
why you,,,,,
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
mad props, hl
living up to your username
not the best move, but maybe some chemistry can change. definitely an offensive upgrade either way. watch duncan go on a tear now, lol
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Moz rolled the dice
Duncan might never get his power back. He has a high chance of getting reinjured and never playing again. His defense is much worst than any defensive stats show.
He got a half decent hitting MIFer for league min for 2 more years
Stat Whore
Holding onto Chris Duncan was a gamble with his value
As low as the value is now. It could get worst if he re hurts himself and never returns to baseball.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, is it True that Duncan was Traded?
All StlCardinals says is that Duncan was sent to Memphis and Barden was recalled.
Help me as I try to catch up here.
Yes
He was optioned to Memphis and then traded to Boston for Julio Lugo. The Cardinals are paying just the minimum for Lugo.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/red-sox-cards-swap-lugo-duncan.html
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
mozeliak seems like a good guess.
i think this is a huge shot across the TLR bow.
mo says “i am running this ship, not you.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I leave for a few freakin hours
and WWL reports actual moves.
…Steve Phillips likes it, LOL.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I couldn't be sure, though
Because it was all AL-centered, and Mr. Tool doesn’t believe in proper nouns.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Best of luck, Chris.
Hopefully being out of the (unfortunate) spotlight and getting a fresh start will be good for him. I hope he’s not hurt and makes his way back to the bigs.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Of course, the best way to get out of the spotlight is a move to Boston
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I don't think anyone will say he is only there
because of Tito.
And that helps him. He fails or succeeds on his own merit, without being questioned.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He'll be in pawtucket to start, i think
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
But still these are the Red Sox
This is one spotlight to another. Not to mention his nationwide spotlight just grew by 100 thanks to his amount of ESPN coverage he’ll be getting.
On with the (good) youth movement!
besides, it sets up the epic future battle of the Duncans
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
score one for the HPGF!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
so are Dave & Tony quitting?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
inquiring minds want to know.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
My question
Barden is up for Duncan. When Lugo arrives, who goes down? Barden back down? Stavinoha? Walters?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
i think this is right. i wonder if barden ever got on a plane.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
They drove him up 55 North for awhile
Than turned around when he fell asleep and starting to go South on 55
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
did they put a sack on his head?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
No
He just got caught sleeping on the job
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
they must've used the van
That’s why they waited till Fredbird was available.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
this whole post is *epic*
All I got to add is: HI, GUYS IN THE TRUCK.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
lol...
HI JOE STRAUSS!!!
YOU SUCK MO’S LOW HANGING FRUIT!!!
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 22, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
In a related story, older brother Shelley Duncan tells Chris "You Suck"
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1031894
Come on, some one else has to find the humor in this now. No offense to that kid.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
Lets not talk about this subject
It has been brought up before and caused a major stir of problems
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I remember, but in a way that makes it all the funnier,
since as I recall someone predicted just such a situation.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
Just saying
People got banned cause some thought it was funny while others did not
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
it got out of hand. That was a really weird one.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
indeed
The only reason I bring it up is because I was the guy that brought it up the 2nd time.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Got banned? Must’ve invoked some pretty strong emotions. Seems kinda silly over such a little thing.
lb, thought that some were laughing at the kid's expense,
others (including myself for full disclosure) disagreed.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
So...
Schumaker LF
Lugo 2B
Pujols 1B
Ludwick RF
DeRosa 3B
Rasmus CF
Molina C
Pitcher P
Ryan SS
???
Vs. Lefties at least?
or just about everyday?
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
I'm betting we see Lugo in LF
at some point in time.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
For sure
My guess is 8/4
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear he's taking
Rasmus’ spot in center. Something about being versatile.
On with the (good) youth movement!
PTBNL?
Per @MatthewHLeach: Red Sox officially announced it. Duncan and PTBNL to BOS for Lugo and cash considerations.
HL, any confirmation of the PTBNL?
Do you have the link for that?
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
Is this the comment we were supposed to see?
Looks like the people with "fake names" and no "club" sources out-scooped you, huh Strauss?
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
Actually, you know who it could be....
Khalil Greene.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i could live with that
a free player and a salary dump
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
He's still on the DL
and you can’t trade players on the DL.
Boston needs a SS and if the Cardinals pick up his contract, he might be worth the risk.
That’s all speculation.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
If Lugo is all we get for Glaus, I’ll be disappointed. I feel like he could get us more back.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
We'd get salary cap room.
And can maybe finally sign some free agency talent.
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
baseball doesn't haver a salary cap
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Well techincally
Their is a Luxury Tax after a certain amont
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
We're not in danger of getting that high of a salary
The limit is over 160 million so thats all the explanation you need.
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
salary cap? you must be looking for the NFL forums.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
That's the word I'm looking for.
Sorry for the confusion.
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 22, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If you trade Glaus just to dump his salary
you have the room to add a player this year that is making $13 M in 2009.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
ROY HALLADAY
BRILLIANT!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 22, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BEN SHEETS
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 22, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we offer Glaus arbitration
he’ll take it, I’m certain.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends if he can come back strong or not
If not than absolutely yes, But it is awfully weak 3B market
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure any team would give up a first rounder for Glaus anyway
So it would really be useless, I’d take the salary dump and he would probly accept arbitration, as HL said
The poster formerly known as JoeyBombs.
Glaus...
… is by far the best 3B FA next year. DeRosa is the second best. after that it’s… Geoff Blum. somebody would sign Glaus and pay him a lot if he’s healthy.
Isn't Adrian Beltre
a free agent next year?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
even if he doesn't accept arbitration
no team will sign him at the risk of losing a first round draft pick.
ah shit
this was looking to be a nice trade, too
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
wait, WHAT?
we gave up two players for lugo?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
it will not be anyone of real consequence
but now they are throwing in $ and a C prospect. Blech.
godfather of futureredbirds.net
How much $
and which catching prospect… Hopefuly not the one I am thinking of.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
C level prospect
not a catching prospect.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
really i'm not that worried
probably just some organizational filler guy
godfather of futureredbirds.net
Exactly.
The only cash we send, I believe, is Duncan’s contract…if that.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The fanpost has been edited to include a summary of the events as they transpired.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Thanks.
That helps a ton. Coming into this info late, it was getting difficult to discern with about 500 comments.
by The Misery Boys on Jul 22, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Good for Duncan. He needs to be out of the so called "nepotism spot light".
I’m sure Dave and Tony know this is best for Chris.
On the flip side we don’t have to watch him play LF and now he can DH in the AL like he was always meant to do.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
+1
This might be a great move for Chris’s career.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
he'll never see the majors...
… he’s blocked by Papi, Lowell, LaRoche, and Youk. even if LaRoche and Lowell are gone after this season the BoSox will sign somebody better than Dunc to play 1B.
even DH?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it's a gamble
That Chris has not yet recovered / adjusted from his surgery. If really post-recovery Duncan is better than old Papi, the Sox’s gamble pays off.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
You know
the most visited post in my might-as-wellbe-defunct blog’s history is when I found the pic of Duncan humping the trophey and standing around topless with his dad in a leather coat for no particular reason.
Remember his ridiculous second half in 06?
And remember when he was playing RF in the World Series and a fly ball hit him square in the chest?
I’m really going to miss the big lug.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
My favorite here
we need pitching. so why did we pick up an ineffective outfielder? this feels like the 1980 red sox all over again.
They need pitching? Since WHEN?!?!?!? The Sox offense has been getting worse by the day since May, and they look to have two guys (Papi and Lowell) who were instrumental in their last title run and are now completely washed up. If anything, they should be TRADING pitching for someone like Dunn, who could DH and put up the numbers that Papi used to.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Most commented-on fanpost ever?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 22, 2009 9:23 PM EDT reply actions
These grapes are SOUR!
I don’t know if this has been posted ealier, but here are Dunc the Elder’s comments in the Post Dispatch article about his son being traded:
“The way I look at it is he was traded for a player who had very little (leverage) … he was designated for assignment,” Duncan said. "It’s highly unusual for a major-league roster player to be traded for somebody like that. So somebody wanted to get him out of the organization, and they’ve accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.
How could he not be upset. Fair or not, it had to be really hard for him to have to listen to his son be bashed every day. Heck, I get mad when I feel like my kid is singled out in little league. But the thing is, this is a huge business with a lot of money on the table. Dunc wasnt making as much as a lot of players, but at almost a million dollars, you hope to get something. As hard as it is for him, Chris was not performing well enough to be on the major league team. I’m really happy with the trade. Lugo may not be that great anymore but he has a lot more upside for us. Duncan had nothing left to give. Lugo can give us some more flexibility. He can either play SS or 2B and let Skip go back into the OF. That alon makes us a much better team.
"I don't take no anesthetic. Did Lincoln ask for any girlie gas when they blowed his head off?"
by boba schrute on Jul 22, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand the natural tendancy to support your son
but as a professional, you have to draw the line at making public statements against your employer’s correct decision to cut bait with him.
“Somebody wanted to get him out of the organization?” Well Dave, as you well know, we try to put together a roster full of productive players. Maybe its Tony’s fault for playing him. Maybe its Mo’s fault for not putting him in AAA, but for gawd’s sake please don’t act like someone had an ax to grind and they took it out on Chris. He just wasn’t producing. Its not a nefarious plot to undermine your father-son relationship.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 23, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
this comment got to me as well
you are right dave, it is highly unusual to trade a mlb caliber player for someone like lugo. unfortunately, chris hasn’t been mlb caliber it quite some time and was only on a major league roster due to a certain manger’s misguided attempt at loyalty.
there is a difference between being upset and weaving conspiracy tales through the media. this is ridiculous and i hope somebody in the organization calls tony and dave out on this. i usually don’t like bernie that much but his article today was much appreciated.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
holy cow
how did I miss this today??? Stupid clinical ending! Stupid 14 and 15 year old taking my computer!
Definitely interesting news. . . I have nothing of value to add.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
This was not a wavier trade.
On the Cardinals request, Lugo was pulled back, otherwise we would have had to wait our turn. This is a BD conflict resolution move that nets him a 13 million dollar check with the contract, while resolving any confusion that might exist between BD/MO TL/DD relationship.
It is cash flow convenient. Any accumulated worth by Lugo as a ball player is now a cardinal profit. If he functions on an easy to look good team.(a hit on occasion)…….its money in the bank. This is pure BD at work. The sweet profit motive.
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