Worth the Wrist
by DanUpBaby on Jul 20, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
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PrintI'm fine with being a broken record if it involves running out of ways to say that a pitcher is having a startlingly good season: Joel Pineiro is moving into Norm Cash territory, or at least Esteban Loaiza territory, and he's shown no sign of angering the spirit of Christy Mathewson, currently in residence in his right arm or mustache. I can't remember the last time there was a clearly "right" pitch to make and he didn't make it; I can't remember the last time I expected him to.
He's getting Duncan results, but it is not a garden-variety Duncan performance; Pineiro isn't throwing sinkers into the ground, he's working with a U-shaped strike zone, hitting either edge of the Gameday box and otherwise working generously on the lower third of it. If he misses he misses outside, typically by a few inches. I don't plan on missing another Pineiro start; I just can't see anybody else pitching like this for some time, Joel included. Even Greg Maddux struck hitters out at his best.
Joe Thurston is hitting .228/.328/.339 right now; Brian Barden was even worse, and Khalil Greene homered yesterday but is, it must be said, on his second rehab assignment for the same reason; that would trouble if it were a physical injury, and it troubles when it isn't, too. I say all this first to make it clear that I am not against "rushing" Mark DeRosa back from his apparently inevitable surgery even if he doesn't hit like late-career Mark DeRosa in 2009. Even if you give Thurston his current rates—not the .550 OPS he's carried for the last two months—and give DeRosa his worst numbers since 2005, the one-for-one replacement is still worth a win or so over the course of the rest of the season.
Of course I'm hesitant to attribute DeRosa's o-fer start to his bum wrist; if there is one hobby-horse I've beaten dead over my years in blogging it's that I'm hesitant to attribute anything to anything, even if I have it in writing from his wrist that it's the reason he's struggled in two games. But it's fair to say, I think, that he has a known wrist injury; that playing through injuries is hard, wrist injuries doubly so; and that taking those two things into account, now is the time for all good Cardinals fans to be just concerned enough to ruin the occasion of removing Joe Thurston from the lineup.
Speaking of bum wrists, the Brewers have finally replaced Rickie Weeks, whose tendon sheaths are like the hinges on the jewel case that is his physical baseball talent. Enter Felipe Lopez, who handled his Cardinals-induced second chance perfectly by playing in Arizona. It's a good trade, so long as they never, ever play him at short; two C+ prospects for a guy who can get on base and kind of play second base is a fine deal for anybody, let alone a team that is stuck wondering when Casey McGehee and Craig Counsell, a minor league vet who was an average hitter in AAA and a 39 year-old defensive replacement, will stop hitting.
Like the DeRosa deal, it's a great example of fixing a number of problems with one small move, instead of trading the farm system for players who, in the interest of protecting the identity of my sources, I will call Vacation and Vocition. Lopez isn't as good or as versatile a player as DeRosa, but then Roque Mercedes, incredible name aside, is no Chris Perez.
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Pineiro looks like a telenovela star
I’m still glad that the Cardinals are holding together their legit 1-2-3 starters. That bodes well for a playoff run. I imagine that they are going to be making a run at some washed up diamond in the dumpster starting pitcher that everyone has forgotten about to fill out that #5 spot in the rotation.
I'm glad I am not the only person who got the reference.
¡Fernando, mi amigo!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Isn't this the time to consider trading him?
Will he ever have more value? Do we really need him next year at $48 million over 4 years. In the playoffs, wouldn’t he be a fifth wheel so to speak. Would love to load up on a couple or prospects.
Just win
Vacation in Rome is a great film
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
you know we're in first place, right?
Ummmm, we are trying to win toi the world series, right?
I’m utterly perplexed by this comment.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 20, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
people are always so worried
about the future here they often neglect the present.
On a semi-related note, I’m going to stop procrastinating tomorrow.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
yeah
we only have half a season of him left too, so we wouldn’t get much for him in a trade anyway, and he’s our best starter right now (go figure)
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Who wants to rent Pineiro for a half season?
I don’t know what we could get back for Joel, and certainly nobody with enough value to get us into the playoffs this year. Even if Pineiro regresses, it is better than Thompson, Wellemeyer or Garcia.
I know on some level this is me being greedy
but it’s frustrating to watch the Cardinals toss out three great pitchers, a good pitcher (Lohse) and then . . . Wellemeyer. If ever there was a time/year to try and break in one of the prospects, it’s now.
The bullpen rarely has to toss more than 2 innings a night and rarely on back to back days. The Cardinals are facing 2 open rotation positions this offseason and have one of those pending free agents turning into a pumpkin. Why are we not trying Mitchell Boggs (or Walters or Mortensen or maybe even Hawksworth) for the rest of the season?
In any event, Pineiro’s been spectacular despite a surprisingly bad W-L record. I don’t ascribe to W/L records by any means but when was the last time you saw someone with the 6th best tRA and 9th best FIP have a sub-500 record? It’s scary to think about giving him a contract because I question whether this kind of command and a 60% groundball rate is sustainable. That said, he’s been damn good this year.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
+1M
but it’s frustrating to watch the Cardinals toss out three great pitchers, a good pitcher (Lohse) and then . . . Wellemeyer. If ever there was a time/year to try and break in one of the prospects, it’s now.
I’m w/you AZ. Why not just make every fifth day “Relievers’ Day?” Have the pitcher goes once through the lineup. Use all the guys mentioned above first, then shift to the pen. I don’t see the Colonel or PK having roles in the future.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
Because TLR would want 14 pitchers
If we have reliever starts we would hear how taxing that is on the bullpen. Next thing you know Jimenez or some other ghost from bullpens past would be the 14th pitcher on the 25 man roster. /s
by creativereason on Jul 20, 2009 9:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree
I don’t understand the benefit of starting Wellemeyer. I would prefer a 4 man rotation than having him every 5th game. If we are going to accept a crappy outing every 5th start, why not let it be a young pitcher getting his legs under him?
ahaha
Funny thing is he got pissed about the W/L and decided to give himself Run Support.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
the run support told him he'll never pitch for PR
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Todd Wellemeyer is a Proven Veteran
who has a track record of one full season as an average big-league starter.
In all seriousness, though, I agree 100% with you, Az. It’s silliness. There is not much of an argument that any of those names listed would be any worse than Wellemeyer and it would unquestionably be in the best interest of the club going forward to make such a move. It’s a neutral move (at worst) this season with the possibility of reaping benefits in the future. Such a move should be made.
Isn’t Jo-El Pineiro’s W/L record exhibit AAAAAAAAAD that it is a ridiculous “statistic”?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm missing something here.
Why shouldn’t command be “sustainable”? That’s the whole point of reproducible mechanics. It is also exactly the skill that, for most pitchers, takes some time to grow. It is also one of the main reasons why guys like Maddux continue to be superstars even after their heaters, if any, aren’t so hot.
This isn’t to say that I favor a long-term deal for Pinata, but I don’t see why this particular part of his performance this year isn’t sustainable.
by StanTheManFan on Jul 20, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It's similar to last year where Ludwick
had something like a 27% LD rate. When you’re looking at stats like that, even when players have improved their skillset in a certain area, expecting them to be multiple deviations better than average isn’t a good assumption.
This is the same thing that happened with Ryan Franklin in 2007 when he walked just 1.24 per 9. Did he improve his mechanics there? Quite possibly. Does that 1.24 represent the best estimation of his true talent level. Probably not. In that instance, (and someone can correct me if I’m wrong) but I think you’d regress to career rates (the other option would be league averages but that doesn’t sound right).
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Ryan Franklin from 2007 to 2008
2007: 1.2 BB/9
2008: 3.4 BB/9
2009: 0.5 BB/9
Hopefully, the second half of 2009 is more ’07 in nature than ’08; otherwise, we might be in for a few gut-wrenching Izzy-esque outings.
Stats provided by Baseball-Reference.com. That’s Baseball-Reference.com, where I go for (almost) all of my statistical inquiries.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Stats provided by Baseball-Reference.com. That’s Baseball-Reference.com, where I go for (almost) all of my statistical inquiries.
Okay, how much are they paying you?
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
He's just trying to stoke the market so fangraphs will offer him more.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'm hoping 2nd 1/2 2009
is more 1st 1/2 2009. but i’m selfish
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
fangraphs did a review of
Pitchers who became extreme GB pitcher. They actually generally continued the GB trend. The question about walks is concerning, though, as is his hr rate.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 20, 2009 11:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1,
and to compare Piniero 2009 with his past years misses the fact that his whole approach to pitching has changed so much, and that his attitude toward the new approach is so positive, that he’s really a different guy out there.
I think what worries most of us, however, is the low K rates and low swing/miss numbers, that’s why stats-inclined fans are nervous. OTOH, by definition, projecting players based on statistical trends works in most cases, but it can’t predict outliers. So Joel appears to be our outlier at the moment and only time will tell if that will continue.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 20, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Well that's kind of the point of a statistical projection
I watch Pineiro pitch, and his control is fucking amazing. He hits his spot almost everytime, and seemingly refuses to throw balls. The question I then ask, is why didn’t he do this before? The answer is likely not that he thought pitching to contact was bad, it’s that he simply wasn’t as good as throwing strikes. Throwing strikes is a skill like anything else, however, like all skills it is subject to regression.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
true
I just dont think it is possible for him to not walk ANYONE in the second half
if he walks someone, he'll never play for Puerto Rico!
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 20, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
there is a skill called "learning how to pitch better"
Jo-el isn’t going to as good as he is now throughout the rest of his career, but, if he sticks with his new approach, which is completely different than his approach over the rest of his career, then it’s hard to justify regressing his numbers to his career lines.
Likewise, isn’t Franklin’s success this year, at least in part, based on his use of the cutter? He didn’t throw that pitch earlier in his career.
These guys are doing something that’s categorically different from what they’ve done before and statistical projections have to take into account changed circumstances. When they go back to doing what they did to copile those careers numbers, then we should expect a full regression.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 20, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I said "altogether"
I said that when a pitcher fundamentally changes his approach to pitching, including what pitches he’s throwing most of the time, then any good statistical projection must take that into account. To just say that he should regress to his career avgs, when the enviroment that produced those numbers is no longer the same, is also an error.
Is he always to be as good as he’s been so far this year? Very Doubtful. But if he keeps the new approach, I’m confident he’ll be better than he was when he was a 4seam/slider guy.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 20, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Right...
I’m not disagreeing. Just trying to clarify.
Expecting previous stats to predict the performance of a dude who’s vastly altered his game/approach and (likely) improved his skillset a bit is analogous to trying to project a guy’s batting stats when he just learned to hit left-handed from his entire career as a right-handed hitter.
Maybe it’s not that extreme of a comparison, but I can see the argument.
Correct me if I'm wrong, everybody
But the whole idea of regression takes into account part natural ability and part consistency of approach, right? It’s kind of like how nobody would bother using Ankiel’s hitting stats from his days as a pitcher to project him going forward. It’s not quite the same overall package anymore, so maybe past data doens’t help very much. If somebody changes something so dramatically as Piñeiro has, I’m starting to believe that maybe he really can be a bona fide good starter from now on.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
regressing
is really just describing the likelihood that a pattern will, ultimately, approach its mean with an increasing number of replicates, or a larger samples size. Take for example the infamous coin flip. Everyone knows that a balanced coin will land heads half the time. You go out to prove to yourself that this is the case. you flip ten times and THEY ARE ALL HEADS – YOUR COIN WILL WIN THE CY YOUNG THIS YEAR!!! Regression to to mean means that if you continue flipping (100 flips, 1000 flips, 10,000 flips) – you will ultimately find that it does land heads half the time.
Regression to the mean is a statistical term that can be confusing because when non-statisticians hear the word ‘regression’ they think of a decrease in performance. In fact the opposite can occur as well. If a pitcher has had a string of bad luck (and we are just talking about luck here, not skill), then they can ‘regress to the mean’ in a way that we see as good – walk rate goes down, stranded rate goes up…..
The real question is, what is the fella’s actual ‘mean’ level of production. And on a related note, can that mean shift with time, and by how much. This is the Piniero conundrum – has he actually improved that much or is this a blip on the regression (or progression) radar? Or both?
Well, I just meant the idea of regression as it usually applies in baseball discussions
I do like how you pointed out positive regression happens all the time. But tell that to Jay Bruce and he might start crying.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Well, his hand hurts right now.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, is he injured?
I wasn’t aware of any injury, I just thought he was having terrible luck this year.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He's also hitting literally no line drives
But his ISO is pretty good.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I think a broken hand means you're injured.
He broke it about a week ago in the outfield.
How ever his season was shaping up, is probably how it’s going to look at the end, because there’s not enough time to heal a broken hand and get any serious playing time in before the season ends.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
pretty sure
he was saying that he didn’t know he had a broken hand. maybe it’s a leap of faith, but i would guess he knows that player with a broken hand would probably find his way to the dl
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Well excuse me. I'll get off of your lawn.
Sorry.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
yeah,
get your fucking ball while you’re at it. i don’t want to see you around here again
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Can I grab my frisbee real quick too?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
doesn't pj have dogs?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Cardinals zombies?
I decided I would totally take Albert’s hands and Yadier’s feet. But only with a base stealer’s legs.
I don’t think I trust anybody’s shoulders on this team…
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the ghost of kip wells
is often seen round these parts
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It appears,
as a perfectly normal-looking ghost with moderate upside, but quickly turns into a nightmarish fiend whose thirst for walks and HRs is impossible to satisfy.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
I was trying to answer the question
as it pertains to baseball. Maybe I wasn’t as clear as I thought I was….. As I understand baseball’s ‘regression to the mean;’ the ‘regression’ part is not dependent at all on talent, while the ‘mean’ is. So regression is just probability, while the mean measures the level of talent.
I think I see what you mean now (no pun intended)
I thought you were being more general, because I thought that you thought that I didn’t get the term “regression” on a more basic level. It’s all good.
Although I’m not sure that how the term actually applies and how people often use it are really the same thing, but that might be way too tangential a conversation to bother with.
(Who am I kidding, no conversation is too tangential for VEB)
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Let's re-sign that quarter!
It’s F%$ing golden!
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
which is completely different than his approach over the rest of his career
Is it? We hear about these things when they work but to say that he’s never tried to throw a sinker before is overreaching what we know. We hear all the time that a player is doing something different (this exact same thing happened with Carlos Silva in 2007 where he changed some pitching mechanic and voila! — until he turned back into Carlos Silva the next year).
Has Pineiro gotten better? Sure, probably. But to act like we can take one aberrant year, assign a reason (even one that’s suggested and seems reasonable) and assume that he’s a new player altogether flys in the face of history. Pitchers can have aberrant performance years just like hitters.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 20, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. But you're just saying that..
we don’t yet know whether Pinata is truly different (because he’s got a new skill) or whether this is an aberration within the error bands of career performance.
I agree with you, but we’re not going to know whether Pinata is “truly different” until after the population is built.
Nevertheless, we can look for other evidence. For instance, if Pinata said something like “I don’t how I’m doing it, I guess I’m just in a groove” or he said “My arm just feels really good lately” then we’d think this was an aberration.
But we should give more credence to changed circumstances when the pitcher says he’s pitching differently, his pitch mix has changed substantially, and he has repeated that approach over almost twenty starts. Are his walks likely to go up? Probably. Are home runs allowed probably going up? Sure. But there’s enough room between his career numbers and his numbers now to say that he’ll more successful with his new approach than he was during the pre-new-approach days.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 20, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Contract Year
assign a reason (even one that’s suggested and seems reasonable)
Pitching Silva-like for Silva-like dollars and years. Joel turns 31 in Sept so a four year deal from Texas would be a great retirement plan.
Right
But to act like we can take one aberrant year, assign a reason (even one that’s suggested and seems reasonable) and assume that he’s a new player altogether flys in the face of history.
Didn’t this happen before with Pineiro? The last few months of his first year with the club, I seem to recall a big fuss about Piniero tipping his pitches. After that revalation, I seem to recall a lot of people (including F. Scott Pineiro himself) saying, “FIXED!” and expecting a new pitcher.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 20, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
On the other hand, though
the pitchFX data I’ve seen on his two-seamer seems to suggest it’s got nearly as much movement on it as Webb’s and Halladay’s. Whilst he’s nowhere near the pitcher that either of those guys are, I think it’s evidence that his skillset has genuinely changed. He just didn’t have that pitch (or at least, didn’t use it) last year, and it’s his biggest weapon this year. He’s never walked many, he’s just always given up a ton more contact in the air. Of course a 60% GB rate probably isn’t sustainable, but he’s going to keep that rate way over 50% IMO if he can keep pounding that sinker out there, and that’ll keep the HRs suppressed way below his career rate.
There’s real evidence for a change of skillset this year – he’s just not THIS good.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 21, 2009 5:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Over half the way to my predicted 15 wins for him
so I’m hoping the regression, if any, is minimal.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 20, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if part of the reason...
for his and Franklin’s improved control is ditching of pitches (change for Piniero and Slider for Franklin) that weren’t working and replacing them with better pitches (2-seamer for Jose and cutter for Franklin)…?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 20, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Guess I had the wrong pitches...
they both ditched their sliders and replaced with different fastballs.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 20, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That's funny...
wonder how that happened…?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 20, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Pineiro's progression.
In 2009:
In March/April, Pineiro had a .306 BAA and .802 OPS against, with a 6:6 (or 1:1) K:BB.
In May, Pineiro had a .281 BAA and .696 OPS against, with a 19:2 (or 9.5:1) K:BB.
In June, Pineiro had a .250 BAA and .573 OPS against, with a 17:4 (or 4.25:1) K:BB.
In July, Pineiro has a .195 BAA and .473 OPS against, with a 9:0 (INF) K:BB.
In addition, his WHIP has gone down each month from 1.367 to 1.154 to 1.059 to 0.696.
Seems like he’s getting better as the season goes on.
Based on the Pitch F/X data at Fangraphs, he is throwing a discernible two seam fastball (for the first time in his career) 1/5 of the time. He is using his four seam fastball much less (I’m guessing namely because there is now that difference between his two seamer and four seamer in terms of both velocity and movement.) He uses his change up more as well, leaving less time for his fairly ineffective slider and curve ball.
It sounds like a philosophical approach as well as consistency in his pitches, to me. It could be sustainable because of that.
We don't have pitch f/x data for his career.
We do have it for 2007-2009.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Pet peeve alert
Gameday is absolutely guessing on 2-seam vs. 4-seam. It’s trying to do it by movement and speed not the actual rotation. I’ve seen too many super slo-mo replays where their classifications were wrong on that to remotely trust that. Pineiro may or may not be throwing a new 2-seamer, but Gamedays’ classifications don’t prove that.
Not afraid to nitpick
Is fangraphs using the gameday classifications
or a homebrew concotion?
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I believe gameday
But it doesn’t matter either way. Trying to guess 4-seam vs. 2-seam based on movement and speed isn’t gonna happen.
Not afraid to nitpick
They use Biz
And being a guy who works with Pitch f/x data a reasonable ammount, I can say that Pineiro has in fact been throwing a lot more sinkers this year.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 21, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
no big deal
and I hate being negative nancy (debbie downer) because I think Pineiro really has changed things but I’ve seen that dog and pony show too many times to buy into lock, stock and barrel.
(did I miss any cliches in there?)
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
You have to take your cliches one day at a time.
Give 110%, but don’t try to do too much.
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 20, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Stay within yourself
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Never make the first or third out at third base
Actually, just try not to make outs, period…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
let the chips fall where they may.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
It is what it is
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I think that's gotta be the most abused cliche ever. It's pretty hard to not be true, since it's kind of one of the three classic laws of thought.
Imagine if athletes used other statements like that in interviews. “Well Bob, that’s the thing about pitching; the statements ‘A is B’ and ‘A is not B’ are mutually exclusive and cannot both be true at the same time.”
“It’s the ump’s call to make; it was either an out or it was not an out, and the middle position of it being neither is logically untenable.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Take it one day at a time
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Sounds like what Mr. Spock would say
were he a MLB pitcher.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 20, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Albert Pujols is ridiculous!
soon to be a cliche
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Trend analysis has been proven to be useless
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Tell that to Barry Bonds after he started taking roids....
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 20, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
He never took roids!
He just got a head inhancement
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't agree more
And I know I’ve said it before, but my pick to replace him would be Hawksworth.
MLE FIP this year of 3.93 in 66 IP at AAA, with a 2.74 K/BB ratio. And true to form, he posted a 3.96 FIP in 12 actual IP at the big league level. I know that it’s a ridiculously small sample, but I liked what I saw when he was on the mound. Good stuff, good control, and good mound presence. I’ve seen him in the past, and the 2009 version is much better, probably due to health.
He could, at a minimum, match Welly’s production. I think he could give you more. All while auditioning to fill a rotation spot next year at league minimum salary.
But I’d be happy with any of the AAA starters getting a chance.
by pitchingandefense on Jul 20, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
did he really throw 12 innings with the MLB team?
I only saw him pitch once, that I can remember, and he looked pretty bad, but apparently I missed 7 appearances or so.
A “Free” 5th starter with a ~4ish FIP would be pretty awesome.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
he's been pretty solid
his last several outings
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Hawksworth also fits the Duncan profile
Minor league career GB%: 46%.
For reference, Wainwright’s MLB career GB%: 47.5%.
Throws a fastball in the low 90s he keeps low in the zone with command. What more could Duncan want?
by pitchingandefense on Jul 20, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
nice work
hinges on the jewel case that is his physical baseball talent
Let’s hope Albert’s elbow is made of sterner stuff.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio
by cloistermaximus on Jul 20, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
the Cardinals' DL is brutal
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 20, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya know, if
Joel’s middle finger were raised just a little more, that whole pose suggests a whole different interpretation.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 20, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Somebody photoshop a huge Elizabethan collar on Joel, please
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
giving it a shot
Someone else can try.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 20, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Don't know why I thought this...
But I immediately wondered “is that Mark Mulder’s skull”?
I should be ashamed. And I am. A little.
Wait a sec, that's no soliloquy
he’s saying: “I see a little silhouetto of a man,
Scaramouche,scaramouche will you do the fandango”
anybody else seeing the resemblance?
by mattyp on Jul 20, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
he's just a poor boy, nobody loves him.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 20, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me,for me,for meeeeeeeeeeeeee
So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye.
So you think you can love me and leave me to die.
(now this song will be in my head all day and I’ll keep calling my cell phone from my office phone so I can hear my ring tone)
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee are the champions, my friend
and weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee’ll keep on fighting to the end….
Jo-El speaks to the Cubs
Buddy you’re a boy make a big noise
Playin’ in the street gonna be a big man some day
You got mud on yo’ face
You big disgrace
Kickin’ your can all over the place
We will we will rock you
We will we will rock you
Anybody else notice...
that Freese is on a rehab assignment? He went 2 for 2 yesterday and started to DP’s. Granted it was for GCL, but if his ankle was the reason for his slow start, and that’s behind him he could be a HUGE help down the stretch…on a related note I’m not expecting anything from Glaus unless it’s as a fill in for AP or a PHer. Looks like all that 3B depth we thought we had in March might actually become a reality.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
hopefully glaus will rake
and we can trade him to an AL team for their top prospect
probably wishful thinking
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 20, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Too bad the Royals have already traded their top prospects for Yuniesky Betancourt
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah and it
would probably also need to be a contender
and now that i think about it, i don’t think there’s any way glaus drives up his trade value that much in 11 days. if he’s even finished rehab yet
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 20, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Good chance he passes waivers
that adds another month.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
ooh
i dunno about all that
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
You don't think a guy
making 12.5M, coming off a shoulder surgery that’s kept him out all year to this point and is limited to basically being nothing but a DH wouldn’t pass through waivers?
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
Are they any AL teams desperate enough for a DH type?
I honestly don’t know. Maybe the Giants are looking for a rehabbing 1st baseman?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
1 problem with the Giants and Glaus
Glaus doesnt hit Left Handed.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
troy glaus-defense for league minimum?
seems like a pretty solid gamble to me. i’d pick him up if i were a gm
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
If they claim him off of waivers...
they pay the pro-rated portion of his salary. I think there are two different waiver processes, one that would make him a FA and one that would make him a minor leaguer…we would use the latter.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
if that's the case,
then i’m probably wrong. i was under the impression that once someone is placed on waivers, he can be claimed for league minimum. i’m really not that well-versed on the subject. in that case, it might be a risk worth taking. i like me some prospects
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
same process
but certain players who are veteran enough have to accept the assignment, if he doesn’t then he would be released and then a team could get him for prorated league min, if they claim him on waivers they get the salary too.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I'm certain the team would DL him...
before placing him on waivers IF he wouldn’t accept the assignment. I don’t see why he would accept the assignment, considering that he could potentially make a difference as a DH/1B somewhere.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
He is a Type A Free Agent
And will most likely end up the season that way. If he somehow has a strong end to the season he would not accept Arbitration. That would net 2 picks right there. That is a risk some might be willing to take.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 20, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
In my opinion
it might be worth offering him arb regardless.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Could go either way imo
It is a large risk for Cardinals though and they are risk prone
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 20, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Glaus is good and has a history of good OBP skills
Therefore, Dayton Moore wouldn’t want him.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But... he is also a crappy defender
(with the exception of last year)
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Pick your bench player
now pitching hitting – Troy Glaus
vs Nick Stavinoha or Khalil Greene or Brian Barden or Tyler Greene
Another positive is having Troy on the active roster in August forces either a reduction in the bullpen or Nick/Ankiel/Duncan to move off the active roster. Looking at the schedule I think the bullpen loses a reliever in August since there are five off days.
The interesting final factor
is how the roster is made up on August 31st. Cause if we’re lucky/good enough to make it to the playoffs, but do so having to use a 13 man pitching staff, I will poop a squirrel.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 20, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sorry
but I am now rooting for a 13 man pitching staff.
only if there are pictures
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i've got a camera
just putting it out there
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
when's the gdm documentary coming out?
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 21, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
we've had a set back due to lack of funding
damn economy
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
i'd settle for an AL team just paying his salary the rest of the year
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
my vote is "wishful thinking"
I will be gobsmacked if Glaus contributes anything positive to the team this year. If the guy still can’t throw across the diamond, let him stay on the fucking DL until he can. I just can’t fathom why he should be trying to play baseball at 50%.
If I were king I’d trade him to an AL team and see what kind of prospects we could get for him.
He probably ends up back on the DL in a couple of weeks...
me thinks.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
awesome sig.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 21, 2009 5:22 AM EDT up reply actions
We aren't going to be able to move Glaus.....
If he can hit, but can’t field, we have no choice but to use him off the bench as our “big gun” pinch hitter. Might be dangerous come playoff time. Also, he can DH in the WS.
Then we offer him arby, and either let him play 3B next year, or get the draft picks.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 20, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
1 and 2.....
I don’t see it going 6.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 20, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Who are we playing?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 20, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
sweet!!!
denkinger has long since retired, right?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 20, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how we're going all lboros here...
with the no caps.
We should do a LB tribute day where everyone posts in lower case…any posts using upper case to start sentences or for proper nouns gets deleted by the mods.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 20, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys can discuss whatever you want...
but my real question was about Freese and what he could mean for August and beyond.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 20, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
it's a good point, and thanks for
Pointing it out.
Not to be glib, but doesn’t it depend on how his rehab goes? Right now, if he can throw the ball across the diamond and get an OPS of .650 he’s got a job.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 20, 2009 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
definitely depends on how his rehab goes...
but I’ve got a lot more hope for him right now than Glaus.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Glaus is a power hitter
that strikes out a good bit ordinarily and with those kind of hitters it usually takes time to get the stroke going and they usually contribute little if not playing regular. It would surprise me if Glaus contributes much this year.
Albert Pujols, LD%, and BABIP
I was perusing through Albert Pujols’ stats on fangraphs, and something stood out to me: His BABIP is about .030 points lower than his career average! At first I thought, “Wow, that’s scary… what happens when that inevitably goes up?”
Then I looked at his LD%. His LD% this year is 15.4% with a career average of 19.7%, and his FB% is 47.7% with a career average of 39.5%.
What do these things mean? Does this mean that Albert Pujols is intentionally hitting more flyballs in order to hit more home runs? Whatever it is, something has changed in either Albert’s swing or Albert’s philosophy that is having him hit fewer line drives, more flyballs, and more home runs
Whatever it is, it's working
His HR/FB ratio is right online with his career averages, yet his ISO is way up because he has been able to hit more fly balls. His current .730!!!!!!!!! slugging might just be sustainable.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I think last year he was trying to perfect his high-average hitting, now this year without the painful nerve problem he is swinging for the fences a bit, with ridiculous results
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
so a reduction in LD rate...
coupled with an increase in FB rate can be a good thing? I’m having trouble making sense of that.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
for power hitters that get enough on their flyballs
every stat needs context, a .300 BA can be “empty” remember?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Did you watch the HR Derby?
It’s tougher for line drives (which Albert usually hits a lot of) to leave the ballpark. Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Josh Hamilton, and all of the people who do really well at the Derby tend to hit long fly balls rather than line drives
I totally get that...
it’s just that USUALLY a decrease in LD rates and an increase in FB rates is not a good thing. When you’re hitting those extra FB’s out of the ballpark…
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
interesting
there’s a pretty extreme variation between fangraphs and B-R on pujols’ LD/FB stats. B-R says 19.3% LD rate (55 of 285), while FG says 15.4% (44 of 285). IE B-R thinks Albert has 11 more LD’s than FG.
Per B-R, albert has 13 HR on LD so far this year, so my guess is that some of those may be considered FB by FG.
He’s also batting .343 on GB’s, which is really, really high, almost 100 points above average.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
Your absolutely right
I did the math before on Fangraphs numbers and it came back only 2 of his HR’s were Line Drives. I don’t trust their numbers at all. Also, the low BABIP is only because he has so many HR’s. If those HR’s were simply 2B he would have a very high BABIP>
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 20, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
what defines a LD vs a FB?
Looking at alberts HR angles: http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2009_50&type=hitter&sortm=elev_angle&sort=desc most of his HRs are in the 25 degree or above range, is that the cut off? Are the 13 HRs that fall below 25 degrees considered LD while the others are FBs?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
That .343 on GB's could be a result of line-drive velocity hits with low angles.
Early Hit F/X evidence shows that velocity off the bat is very important in determining the BABIP of ground balls.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
yeah, I've heard a rumor that albert hits the ball pretty hard sometimes ;)
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
John Garland
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if teams
are pitching him differently? Any pitch f/x’ers to the rescue?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
The 'Stros
They are at .500 and a mere 4 games behind us. Weren’t they ten under not so long ago?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I hate the Astros
Stop fucking defying Pythag
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
plus they always do well down the stretch
wish they would just go away
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
those guys are always a threat
they might just prove right (or at least not completely retarded) when i pegged them to finish 3rd in the division this year between the cards and brewers
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
In a way I hope the Astros keep defying logic
Because then maybe their organization will continue to think they’re close to making a run for it, and will doom their future even more with futile “win now” moves.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
they don't have much left to trade away I don't think
their top prospect is a good catcher in AA (I think) – I’m not sure they’ve got anyone else in the top 100…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 21, 2009 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions
ah yes
the familiar annual Astros 2nd half charge. I was looking at the standings last night and noticed that. We swept em once already this year, maybe we can do it again.
I'm hoping, especially since the Cubs just go to beat up on the Natinals.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
With Wandy and Oswalt in Games 2 and 3, respectively,
I’d be happy with winning the series. A sweep would make me ecstatic.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Good thing we've got our best lineup
out there tonight.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Damn Astros
I really hate the fact that they seem to play so well in the 2nd half. It’s bothersome to me because it encourages them to make really crappy moves thinking the formula works and because announcers always just assume the Astros have some kind of second half magic. I wish they’d just tank one year and everyone who get it through their heads that their management stinks at life.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Glaus Returns to be a Left Fielder
Can someone explain to me how it is easier to throw from LF than 3B?
Stat Whore
the logic (as i understand it)
is that ryan will run out to shallow left on these balls and act as a short cutoff man that glaus can just lob it to
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
we're just askin' for Boog to blow out *his* wrist
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
we have done it once before with Pujols and Renteria
Also with Rasmus or Ankiel in center you also ask them to run to LF and possibly throw anything in from out, the role Edmonds played that season.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
He won't have to throw as hard as often.
If he catches the ball at 3B, 90% of the time it’s on the ground and he has to throw across the diamond.
If he catches it in LF, he usually only has to hit the cutoff man with no real time table (on flyballs).
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 20, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's pretty much the Albert-in-LF...
…plan of 2004. He either just shot-puts it to Ryan or tosses it to Rasmus when applicable. chuckb talked about it yesterday, basically reaching the logical conclusion…if he can do this and hit okay, it’s still an upgrade of the Dick ’n Dunk pu pu platter.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh
double entendre!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Dick'n Dunk....
best.name.@.veb.EVER
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
no one could possibly know that
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Dick: "I bet I could throw a baseball over the Arch"
by Ray Lankford on Jul 20, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
someone witht the photoshopping magic
should investigate your statement
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
"he's no chris perez"
that is probably a compliment at this point, seein as chris perez hasn’t done a thing @ the major league level. i don’t get the love for him at all. sure, he was good in college and throws hard. so did ryan wagner. i’m all for minor league and college stats translating to the pros, but you also need some resiliency and he doesn’t seem to have it at all. any time he gets in any trouble he falls apart and lacks any type of composure to work his way out of a jam as far as i’ve seen. i’m more worried about the ptbnl than i am about giving up chris perez. he’ll be a free agent in a couple years and we can sign him then.
I feel ya the PTBNL
If it ends up being Jess Todd, I will be crushed. I think Perez is due for season ending surgery soon anyhow
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 20, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Please let it NOT be Todd
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Lots of objectivity fact there...
The dude’s problem is he’s wild as hell. When he gets in trouble he’s likely to walk people, true. However that’s because he’s more likely to walk people period!
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny story
a buddy of mine works for the Cardinals, and recently over a few cold ones, revealed to me the true origin of the shiner Luddy was sporting last week. It was not a result of tripping over his luggage. It was the result of an alcohol induced scuffle with Chris Carpenter.
haha, wow
i don’t think anyone bought into the luggage story. but he got that from carp?! i figured it was just some douche in a bar
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I hope it was his left hand
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 20, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
well,
assuming the story is true, it doesn’t seem to have affected him. i think it was luddy’s right eye, though, wasn’t it?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I find that more disconcerting than funny
They don’t all have to be best buds, but punching another teammate in the face doesn’t seem particularly helpful to the whole team concept. I’m not calling out Carp if this story is true, b/c who knows what Luddy did to deserve it.
Maybe Lud made fun of Carp's 'stache?
If so, that deserves a swift shot, at least in my mustache, er, eyes.
i agree
not like carp was ever one of my favorite cardinals, but yeah, what you said
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
he could be bullshitting me
but he seemed pretty serious, i’d say there is about a 75% chance it’s true.
studies have shown
that 80% of rumors are true :-) (no joke)
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time."
Brian Fantana
by Ray Lankford on Jul 20, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm afraid I must insist
on a little more detail before knowing what to think. What exactly does he mean by “scuffle”? To me that could mean a fight, or it could mean they were horsing around having fun and Luddy fell over. Why is everyone assuming it was a punch?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 20, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It didn’t look like a punch, did it? I just saw him on one of the postgames and it looked like a rugburn or something. Of course, that could easily be a result of a scuffle too. Probably as likely, or more, than tripping over luggage.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 20, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
lots of room for interpretation there, eh?
they could also have been scuffling, together, against a band of hooligans or something.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
but Aaron Miles is not on the team...
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Maybe it was a DDT.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 20, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Had to be a Stone Cold Stunner
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 20, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OH HELL YEAH
smashes two cans of beer together, spills all over face
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
thought it said
he had some cold stone creamery
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
also
if it was alcohol induced, it’s a lot less disconcerting then if they were sober.
i’d be lying if I said I never gotten in a drunken scuffle with a friend that ended in a shiner and the next day we laughed about it.
How funny
That two posts can be so alike
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 20, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you two are actually know each other in real life
That’d be awesome!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I am somewhat unconcerned
The only time I had a shiner in my life was from my best friend when we were drunk. Next day we were fine and joked about it.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 20, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, if that's the only context we have,
it sounds like boys will be boys. I was just reminiscing this weekend with a good buddy of mine in the Marines about how we used to drink fifths of rum and beat the shit out of each other, fight club style. Our wives were horrified to learn this.
But imagining Carp trying to punch someone is a good mental picture.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
can we start a fund to teach carp tae kwon do? something that doesn't
involve the hands? of course, he’d probably just tear a hammy then.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
can we start calling Carp "luggage" now?
That was Carpenter’s start, too. Maybe it was like “where’s my run support, bitch?”
…then Ludwick started going on his tear, hmmmm!
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Vegas odds on Rick Ankiel showing up at the ball park with a broken jaw: 5-1
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
If Carp was that mad about run support
he would have ripped Ank’s arms off and beat him with the bloody stumps by now.
I have a feeling that carp is kind of a douche
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
as long as he keeps pitching like that, he can do whatever he wants
It’s not like he’s broken any Gatorade machines.
That we know of.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
yeah
I don’t really care, as long as he is pitching like that… I don’t have to hang out with him, heh
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Exact opposite
he might be the least douchey guy in baseball.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 20, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is all conjecture at this point
I’ll always assume the puncher is more douchey than the punchee
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we have different definitions of
douchieness.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
I just don't see Luddy talking trash to Carp and getting punched
but all bets are off when you are drunk I suppose
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It's conditional
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 20, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
true
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree with this
based on clubhouse presence, the way he carries himself and other things that make this no better than speculation, i think he’s probably dumb as a rock, but a genuinely affable guy
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
nah, saw him at the macaroni grill w/ his wife
he’s not very douchey. Here’s a fanpost of someone running into carp and luddy at a bar, carp’s apparently the dbagerous one.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
i thought we determined that the OP was the
douchey one in that exchange?
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 20, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
dbagerousity is a tricky thing.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Eh, personally I wouldn't have
f’d with them in the first place. I don’t care about players off the field. Then again if I was a public figure I’m grown up enough to know people will be coming up to me all the time. I deal with the consequences of my actions.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Dealing with it
And enjoying it are two different things, especially when you’re out having a conversation at a bar.
I saw half the Blues team at a bar before the Derby and you could tell it wasn’t the right situation. On that note, with the qualifier of being “only” 6’4/6’5: Erik Johnson is the biggest human I’ve seen in person.
Not afraid to nitpick
I was just seeing
If it looked just as silly as " I have a feeling that Carpenter is kind of a douche" when typed out.
It does.
me too
he’s great for the team, but like i said, he was never one of my favorite cardinals
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
He needs to be cosistent with his punching motion.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Dave Concepcion had a wicked right hook.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 21, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice
My general rule of thumb is the read what the team says about any injury and just assume the exact opposite, so this would fit nicely into my worldview. Of course, if that is what went down I’d do the exact same thing in this case.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 20, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If that's true
I hope Carpenter swung with his left hand.
by Evilfrog on Jul 20, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe that's what got Ludwick hitting again
“Give me some run support, damn it!”
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 20, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think everyone's missing the key point of this
which is.
Did Carp punch him with his throwing hand?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I'm seeing a Kingpin-like accident
I guess Wellemeyer would have to take his rotation spot with a hook for a hand. Hey, it couldn’t be any worse!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 20, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
your buddy is full of shit
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
THROW MORE SINKERS?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
You can always THROW MORE SINKERS
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 20, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if this has been discussed before...
But does anyone else think it might be a shrewd move for the Cardinals to trade for Elijah Dukes?
Obviously he doesn’t fit in with the generally squeaky clean image that the Cardinals have, but he is right-handed, plays LF, is undervalued by his organization, has a more potent bat than Ankiel or Duncan, and isn’t playing through a wrist or shoulder injury.
The Nats just moved Milledge for Nyjer Morgan (more or less), so I think it’s fairly reasonable that we could get Dukes for little as well.
His Babip is a bit low (.293) given his LD% of 19.2, and his HR/FB rate is out of line with his career rate in a way that seems like he should have been hitting more HR.
His defense has been a mixed bag, but he should be decent and could probably use another change of scenery. In all fairness though, the Nationals organization itself is hardly a good role model for a guy learning to better manage his life.
He’s currently wasting away batting .324/.419/.622 for AAA Syracuse…
Does anyone else think this is worth exploring, or would we just be asking for trouble?
fuck.
elijah. dukes.
he would probably help the team, but jesus, i hate him
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i mean, the Nats had to bench him for a game for showing up late
The fact that he was signing autographs for a little league organization and got caught in traffic, called to say he was running 15 minutes late, and the fact it was an early game on Saturday shouldn’t get in the way of the fact that he was late, and has character issues.
Carp probably said “you dead, dog” to Ludwick.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 20, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't really care for the guy either but
i asked them over at federalbaseball.com and they told me…
As for what it would take? The Nationals’ got him for 1 minor league pitcher, Glenn Gibson (4th Round pick in ‘06) and his value probably hasn’t changed…
I’d hazard a guess that a SP would pry him away, although my sneaking suspicion is that a ML-ready RP type would do it too. Why? Because this team is not only more concerned about fielding a reasonable team this season when it flagrantly doesn’t matter, but they’re also incapable of judging value. Send over some 25-year-old in AA who got like a 1.50 ERA and they’ll pounce.
Where does he fit for you and what do you have to offer in the way of relievers and middle infielders?
....my quick smells like french toast...
while I kinda hate the guy
he is a major league hitter and has a well balanced offensive attack and is not too shabby at defense. interesting thought, although it would be weird if he was a cardinal
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
There’s some risk involved in his general personality and behavior, but from a baseball standpoint I think it would be incredibly hard to find a potentially available ballplayer that matches up so well with what the Cardinals need and can afford.
And next year’s potential lineup would be pretty amazing. Dukes-Rasmus-Pujols-Ludwick-Wallace-Molina-Skip-Pitcher-Ryan
by Cardinals645 on Jul 20, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this similar to what the Cubs mgmt team said
about Milton Bradley?
kinda what I was thinking
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Milton Bradley's Contract
$20M + option for third year
Dukes’ salary this year: ~$400k
by Cardinals645 on Jul 20, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, and while we're at it,
why don’ t we sign Barry Bonds and Rickey Henderson? Oh, and we can get Jeff Kent to play 2b. If we’re going to poison our chemistry, we might as well do it right.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Because
They’re all retired (or haven’t played in over a year).
by Cardinals645 on Jul 20, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Rickey can still play ball
Rickey could play in STL
by Expatcardfan on Jul 20, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If Bonds were right handed
I’d say sign him up for LF.
actually, now that I think about it, he would be replacing a left handed LF with poor defense. I don’t think I would be opposed to signing Barry Bonds. I’m sure TLR would love to.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
we can't sign Henderson though
Albert doesn’t want to lose the team lead in SB. It’s his goal to win the triple crown and lead his team in every offensive category.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
sure, and lets go get ryan braun and paplebaun
then we could corner the market on douche bags
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
I'm not sure the Nats would trade him
but yeah, I’d want him.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 21, 2009 5:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha! He hits the crap out of lefties
but he really has no playable position. Awful defensive player, even at first base. DH material.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
vai Twitter
Fox_Sports_MW
Cards lineup; Skip 2b, Stavinoha lf, Pujols 1b, Ludwick rf, Ankiel cf, Molina c, DeRosa 3b, Lohse p, Ryan ss
4 minutes ago from web
Good to see Rasmus sitting for Ankiel or Stav! Probably to keep Stav seeing the ball and Ankiel hit a ball to the warning track yesterday..or something…
stav 2nd
and dunkiel still hitting 5th
wat?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
where's our 12-sided die?
fyi — percent of position players in that lineup with a better ML OBP this year than stavinoha – 100%
Nick Stavinoha’s OBP for 2009 (ML only): .256
Kyle Lohse’s OBP for 2009: .333
Bonus factoid: Joel Pineiro’s obp for 2009: .268
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 20, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm okay
with raz getting a day off. but damnit, swap ankiel and derosa. continuing to put ank and dunc in the 5 hole is just retarded
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
how can rasmus be so tired after the all-star break that he needs a rest in CF three days into
the second half?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I'm too tired to complain
so i’m just going to assume Colby went to Jack in the box a little too late last night and his tummy hurts today
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
I dunno about Jack in the Box
But if it were White Castle I’d totally believe it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yes!
And they are SOOOOOOO much better than JitB.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Whataburger is the shit
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 20, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
especially the Taquitos around 2 am
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
i was already hungry, now i'm really hungry
i hate ohio’s FF options
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Perhaps he is being benched
Because he was just added along with the Walrus in a trade for a certain pitcher from Toronto…
/ducks quickly
SF CARDS FAN
/swings over your head, loses balance and almost falls down
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
/jump over john, belly flops on norlanski & starts the dog pile
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
FanFest autograph session
Colby was also signing autographs at Ballpark Village before the All star game. Both were exhausting.
Any lineup with Nick Stavinoha...
…playing anything other than PH is a bad one.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
you follow steve vai on twitter?
j/k
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
it seems to say "get us another manager, mo."
protest lineups are not for july when you’re 2 games in first. i’m not sure they’re for mid september when you’re six games out, but this is bullshit.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
would it be a protest for the trading deadline?
= is unschooled in professional passive-aggression
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm thinking--Adam Dunn?
what would he cost?
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
The collective sanity of the VEB community
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
I wouldn't mind getting him
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
much much more than the half-win he would add to our team.
net value so far
adam dunn: 0.8 WAR
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
This is when I don't buy fully into WAR
Adam Dunn over Dunkiel is worth more than half a win.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Really though?
Is it really absurd to believe that a player could be so atrocious defensively that they can almost completely cancel out all of their offensive capabilities? Dunn can’t run, can’t throw, drops the ball probably more than any OF’er, and has no real instincts in the OF.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he's raplacing Duncan!
They’re like the same player, only one can hit the shit out of the ball.
(Duncan is -0.2 WAR, so Dunn would be 1 win above him so far).
I also think Dunn’s D would improve with Ryan in front of him and Colby next to him. And by improve, I mean back to his -20 average UZR/150.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Dunn v. Ank & Duncan
Adam Dunn stats this season
.265/.402/.546/.947/91G/317 AB/43 R/83 H/24 HR/67 RBI
105 K/ 73 BB
Ankiel/Duncan Combined
.220/.302/.358/.660/484 AB/55 R/107 H/10 HR/54 RBI
121 K/ 58 BB
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
Yes please.
Although, we can be assured that Adam Dunn will only hit 16 more HRs this year.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 20, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
gotta admit, I'm rooting for that
39 or 41 would make me sad.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
.402 OBP!!
Power in the 2-hole!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 20, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
People have to catch the ball too
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not replacing just Duncan
He’s replacing the combined production of Dick ’n Dunk. Neither hits, but Ankiel can at least field.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And why is Dunn's replacement (13.0) higher than Duncan's (10.1)?
Somebody is cooking the books!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
playing time?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
SHENANIGANS!!!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 20, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 20, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nats have said
they’re not moving dunn
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
if so, that is just stupid
do the Nats really think they have a real chance to be in contention next year?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
who knows
i think there’s some sort of relationship between him and the gm
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
That can't be right
No manager would ever make that lineup on purpose. An OF of Stavinoha, Duncan, and Ankiel when Colby Rasmus is on your team? And in the opening game of a series, no less. This has to be a hoax.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Whoops
I misread. Sorry about that.
Now, let me adjust my complaint to, "Why on earth, in the fourth game post-All-Star Break would TLR sit Colby Rasmus against a RHP in favor of Nick Stavinoha and Rick Ankiel—on the day after the Official Site of all places has this headline: “”http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090719&content_id=5940434&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl" >Ankiel available despite sore shoulder; Cards wait and see after MRI reveals ‘some issues.’" Outside of sickness or injury, there is no acceptable explanation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Good Lord
A rough day. I can’t read or make a hyperlink, apparently.
Extra! Extra! Read all about it!
Ankiel available despite sore shoulder
Cards to wait and see after MRI reveals ‘some issues’
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
+1,
Plus, with a lefty going tomorrow, there’s a nonzero chance Raz will sit again. WTF?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
no duncan; ludwick.
but yes. it’s disgusting.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
now that would be a truly horrible outfield
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
nah
thurston dunc stav. ank is actually pretty good in the outfield
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Reasons it might make sense to give Raz a day off.....
He is 2 for his last 20 or so.
Rick has a HR and > .300 average against Moehler.
First game at the circus-field for Raz. Why not give him an extra day to shag flies out there.
Or the obvious, maybe his stomach is acting up today, or he is under the weather.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
20 AB's is a garbage sample size.
ankiel is just as bad over the same last several games.
pitcher-batter matchup stats are useless.
colby rasmus is much, much better in center. to suggest that rick ankiel is a better option than colby rasmus so colby can “learn” to play CF in a stadium is laughable.
maybe he is feeling ill. if not, playing colby over ankiel makes no sense.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
is this a petition
signed
i’ve been waiting for him to get off lawn all year
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
You really should try to land.....
the next MLB manager’s job that opens up.
So long as it isn’t in STL, you’d have my vote.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
You and fourstick should get together
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
because Sooner and I agree on so much.
For someone accusing me of being a jerk in a completely different thread, you’re sure acting like an asshole in this one.
Just because someone doesn’t agree with you and is willing to argue his point, doesn’t mean you have to be a prick about it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Do you REALLY not understand why we were so pissed off at you in that thread?
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 21, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
you should be a troll under somebody else's bridge.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 20, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, no, no.....
Mature is acting like you know more than a VERY sucessful man who has been managing MLB teams for what, 30 years or so?
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
www.tonylarussaisalwaysright.com is still available if you'd like to start a blog
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 20, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no, it isn't, actually
mature means many things, one of which is: “develop and work out fully in one’s mind”. IE take an objective look at the facts and attempt to determine the best course of action, given known information. Most “mature” thinkers don’t believe in fairy tales, and don’t assume that someone else knows what he’s doing because he’s been doing it a long time. In fact, they challenge those people, because by doing so, they might learn something.
Those who hide behind an appeal to authority as their only source of reason are, by definition, immature thinkers.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 20, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
can you please stop trying to pick a fight with everyone?
please?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
If we're sitting guys for going
2 for 18 (with 4 BBs during that timespan!) now, then Ankiel and Duncan should probably just go ahead and retire.
Hopefully he’s not feeling well (strange thing to type) and La Russa has just lost it.
(And it’s odd that replacing maybe hurt Rasmus is a guy who is definitly hurt.)
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Aren't they still floating
The Ankiel is still hurt theme?
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 20, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Since you don't watch the game
you would know that he has been robbed of 3 opposite field hits and was called out on 4 bogus strikeouts during that 20 AB stretch.
He’s also hitting linedrives to opposite field, as a opposed to Ankiel not making contact with a God Damn Thing except his ass with the bench after 4 pitches.
Cut these guys already. They are dead weight.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 20, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint
He is 2 for his last 20 or so.—-Rick has a HR and > .300 average against Moehler.
Rick Ankiel hasn’t had a hit since July 9th and only has two hits in all of July. Ank’s numbers vs. Moehler are based on being 2-6 against him. That’s 6 at bats. Six.
Besides that, it is likely that Ank would play anyway, so Colby is sort of being replaced by Stavinoha. The Infection is a very bad baseball player, his bomb the other night notwithstanding.
Or the obvious, maybe his stomach is acting up today, or he is under the weather.
Maybe. But neither you nor I have heard otherwise in this particular instance so to just sit back and say that “Oh, maybe he’s sick…that’s why!” is an intellectually lazy position that’s backed by shoddy guesswork and speculation. Wondering out loud why this team’s second best player will be pulling splinters out of his bum while two awful players play CF/LF in a frickin’ inner-division series OTOH is a legitimate question.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't seen it ever get any deeper than
TLR made the decision. TLR has won a lot of games. I trust TLR. You should too.
Then again, this move clearly doesn’t make sense on the surface. The only way you can rationalize it is by questioning whether there is something we don’t know. You can’t deal with the knowns and walk away believing that BOTH Ankiel and Stavinoha are better choices. Not possible. Not if you are being intellectually honest about it.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 20, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
So we should ALWAYS play the best players?
You have to manage the roster. That means not only giving Raz time off, perhaps in games where he might be more likely to fail than others, but ALSO putting your bench guys that will be getting those AB’s in a position to succeed.
You all are wasting your time arguing this b/c a) TLR isn’t being questioned by the FO, I guarantee you that, b) we as fans don’t have HALF of the information Tony does in making these daily decisions, and c) it isn’t going to change anything.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
Yes.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 20, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BS
And you know it.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
Yes.
We should always put the best team on the field.
It’s that fucking simple. If Stav NEEDS at bats (and he fucking does not) let him get them against a lefty tomorrow.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Why not against the righty.....
That gets lefties out better than he does righties?
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
Because reverse splits
are not predictive, to begin with.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
If you're afraid of the answer don't ask the question
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you bother commenting if all you're going to say is...
…Tony La Russa has information we don’t have so his moves cannot be questioned?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it is true.....
You guys are trying to make decisions without all the information. That is lame. Baseball isn’t like football or basketball. We as fans don’t “know” as much about the day to day goings on.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
WHO CARES????
Everyone can just start attaching a big asterik to their posts that says “This comment questions logic as it is currently understood without additional inside information from the St. Louis Cardinals, MLB or any of it’s affiliates.”
Sometimes there are good reasons to not play the best players. Sometimes TLR probably fucks up and plays the wrong guy. All the time, it doesn’t matter if people carp about it to each other, on a blog, in the paper, in an e-mail . . .
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Fuck man
We can discuss anything but Tony decision making?
Okay, let’s start the petition right now.
No more questioning TLR’s decisions!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 20, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Blindly following is the way to go
You don’t even have to attempt to think, or try to make sense of anything, anymore! How cool is that? You can pound Bud Lights all night long, and if you feel the need, you can mock knowingly any fool that takes the time to try to seriously understand why certain decision(s) are made. He’s won 2,500 games you know. How many have you won?
Just shut up and accept that the St. Louis Cardinals are, and have long been, a supremely efficient organization with no opportunities for improvement and leave it at that. I would recommend that Dan, RB, and Chuck put the same open threads out each week.
Monday – How awesome is Tony?
Tuesday – How awesome is Duncan (Dave)?
Wednesday – How awesome is Duncan (Chris)?
Thursday – How many pitchers should we have? That depends, how many do we have?
Friday – If anyone in the farm could help, they’d be called up by now. Why I trust the major league managers opinion on this (even though he hasn’t watched these guys since March), and you should too.
Saturday – Who listened to Dave Duncan this week (and got outs), and who didn’t (and didn’t)
Sunday – Another week of totally bitchin’ lineup construction in review
History has shown that blindly following leadership/widely accepted beliefs has been a resounding success. It has worked so well in all other walks of life, why not apply the same mentality to games too, and to these threads!
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 20, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
<blockquoteThursday – How many pitchers should we have? That depends, how many do we have?>
You sir, get a big, hearty rec
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 21, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus
has the 4th most PAs of all the cardinals. Behind Pujols, Skippy, and Yadi. This is after starting the first month as the 4th outfielder. If he is sitting there is a reason.
unfortunately, the "reason" may be because rick ankiel is 2-for-6 against this pitcher.
which is what matt leach indicates:
@JohnMarecek Numbers vs Moehler (though v.small sample size). If you’re going to play him at all, play him tonight.about 3 hours ago from TweetDeck in reply to JohnMarecek
or TLR may be in complete denial:
TLR on Duncan/Ankiel: "They’re both maybe not 100 percent physically, but they’re mostly just struggling to get something going. "
both from @matthewhleach on twitter.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
That doesn't really impress me
Who is he competing with? Players who have been so bad that they couldn’t earn a full time spot? Luddy, who was out for a while with an injury?
how can you have obvious and maybe describing the same thing in one sentence?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
It's always obvious...
that something “may be.” Except if that thing is impossible, or involves Ank doing something positive in a late and close situation.
IMHO...
I really believe that Pineiro is performing this way mainly due to his contract being up at the end of the year (the same way his performance improved to get a 2 year deal out from 1/2 season of work in STL).
I understand his approach is different, but I believe the contract year thing is the main drive in following through with his approach.
wake me up when dunc and/or dicky go on the dl or are dfa'd
it’s hibernating time!!
wake me up, before they go, go
because I dont wanna see em no mo
yeah, that sucks. I hope it doesnt get stuck in your head.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 20, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
Nick Stavinoha is an emblem of this organizations inability to acquire F.A.T. on the offensive side ball. He is 27. Awful on defense and offense and has not upside. They are a ton of guys like Ryan Langerhans, Austin Kearns, Chris Snelling, etc, who are capable of being league average outfielders and could be gotten for free. Currently, I have the Cardinals just behind the Cubs for the divisional lead and a 37% chance of making the playoffs. Even adding a league average player, 1 WAR over the rest of the season, would improve our odds to 45% and we would be slight division favorites. I don’t understand why Nick Stavinoha is getting playing time, and there isn’t SOMEONE who could offer any better production.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Allen Craig
I don’t expect Craig to be a worldbeater or anything, but why not give him a shot? This is really saying nothing, but I’d expect him to be an upgrade over what we are throwing out there now.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 20, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It comes down to this...
…when filling in holes in the roster, this organization has preferred known mediocrities over unknown players for as long as I remember. See Cairo, Miguel and Thompson, Brad and Gallego, Mike and Thurston, Joe. Everyone knows these guys aren’t that great, but at least their not-greatness is predictable.
Now, they could toss someone whose abilities are less clear and see what happens, but GASP that person could do worse. So they’re willing to settle for chicken shit when they could have chicken salad (but may have more shitty chicken shit). My position is you’ll never know what a guy like Allen Craig can really do until you toss him out there…after all, the dude may do better!
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
There is nobody in the game who could possibly be worse than Nick Stavinoha
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
To expand on that...
He has been worth -1.1 WAR in 139 plate appearances. In that same time, a chair, meaning literally a chair that played DH and had a .000 wOBA, would be worth -4 WAR; and that’s assuming that “he” wouldn’t get by a pitch or draw a walk once in a while. That means that Nick Stavinoha, at his current level of player, is as far away from being league average (2 WAR) as his from literally being a chair.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I’m pretty comfortable saying that the chair would take more walks.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 20, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch
Bernie: “So in that context, I guess Glaus in LF is worth a look. But why not give Nick Stavinoha more of a shot out there?”
I guess this answers THAT question.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
How much of a shot does he need, Bernie?
He’s in his late-20’s, has not shown plus power or on-base skills, and is a poor defender. He’s shown nothing to suggest he could develop into something better. He doesn’t have ANY plus skills AT ALL…
Bernie is a silly, silly man.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Um...me?
I’m nearly 39, have a fracture in my lower spine, bad knees, and run about as well as the field upon which I play…I think I may take more walks than Stav though…maybe.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
joe thurston begs to differ
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
I wasn't a fan of moving them earlier
but Craig or Wallace has got to be thought of for moving up soon… we need an extra bat
Brad Penny replace Wellemeyer?
Rumor is Brad Penny can be had for a B-level prospect. Is Tyler Greene a B-Level prospect?
Brad Penny isn’t great but as a 5th starter, he’s a crap-ton better the Welleysuck.
I’m in a particularly fired up mood today. Having the 3rd best hitter on the team benched in a lineup that hosts 3 guys who are a combined 2 for 45 will do that to you.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 20, 2009 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Penny has a 4.21 FIP playing in the AL West
ZIPS projects him to have a 4.28 FIP the rest of the season. That sounds fantastic to me.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 20, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It's stunning to me that exists
The cost of those betamax tapes must have been devastating.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 20, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
better question, what does boggs have to do to replace welley?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
damn
beat me to it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Pujols to appear on a reality TV show with Shaq?!?
That’s the story, anyway. The show is called Shaq Vs., and will have him competing against stars of other sports at their own sports. They’ve apparently lined up Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Phelps, Oscar De La Hoya, Serena Williams and Misty May-Treanor and Kerri Walsh in addition to The Mang.
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 20, 2009 6:34 PM EDT reply actions
Shaq Vs. (AKA Shaq finds new ways to embarrass himself.)
Any idiot would know that.
by The Classical on Jul 20, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
One wonders if he's playing against the starts of the NBA
or if he still considers himself an NBA star.
Although watching Serena Williams blow serves past him really isn’t going to be very entertaining.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Wasting time on the internets
Pineiro has the 6th best tRA+ in the bigs. Whoa.
Not afraid to nitpick
i took a look at his tra stats, along with others in a fanpost a month or so ago.
his tra+ has gone up 4 points since then. waino’s has gone up 10, i think. hard not to like that trend. if we could finally get the club to ditch wellemeyer in favor of a baby bird, we’d have one of the best rotations in the bigs, with two aces and a solid #2.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
There better be a good reason that Stavinoha AND Ankiel are in tonights starting lineup...
while Rasmus sits….
TLR is stupid if not…
'Stay Thursty My Friends' - Tony LaRussa
he really shouldn't have switched from depends
pampers simply don’t hold as much
I gave up a long home run in slow pitch softball and re-created that this weekend
Everybody got the joke.
by cloistermaximus on Jul 20, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Best. Video. Ever.
Okay, not really. But that was hilarious when it happened in real time. Such a sudden, violent outburst of anger.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 20, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i wish i could rec that a million times
why is it not green?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
twice in one night
poor guy’s FIP has increased almost 10% in one outing, 3.81 to 4.3ish. As of the third inning.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
eh?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i thought he was finished years ago
now he’s starting for the defending world champions. And, uh, having a good game (season) so far.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
Mr. Lopez has taken the long, torturous route all the way back from
Tommy John surgery. It’s taken him a VERY long time to make it back, and yes, he’s been effective. I hope it continues to work out for him. I have a soft spot for guys that never give up no matter how hard or how long it takes.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Waaaayyyy OT:
What’s the deal over at Rotoworld with this guy and this guy? And since when does this guy resemble a beefed up Chris Rock??
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 20, 2009 8:41 PM EDT reply actions
Well, ESPN has the same pics as Rotoworld, so are they twins born 4 years apart?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 20, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
the Gonzalez' are brothers
which should explain a bit of it. Edgar was a memphis redbird for a couple of years.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
Is it really so hard
to sit back and enjoy the game like some/most of us did in past years without trying to figure out a new stat to explain why one player is better than another or its better to see Pujols walked instead of pitched to? I mean seriously you have to see that there will never be a perfect stat to tell one player is better than another. This is why we have experienced scouts and player development personnel.
Yes.
Yes, it is so hard. So, so hard.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 21, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
you know, felonious, it really is.
IRIWSS?
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
I actually hate baseball
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 21, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This guy
has actually joined sbnation, has one comment, and this is it.
That was worthwhile.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 22, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
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