Not having a game after the break is weird
Two, two, two posts in one:
First: this is where the brief game recap would go, if the Cardinals had had a brief game last night. Instead, a brief, structurally gimmicky second half Q and A: Guy Who Hasn't Watched the Cardinals This Year Reads their Baseball Reference page, asks some obvious questions.
GUY: What's OPS+?
DAN: Let's... let's skip ahead a few questions.
GUY: Alright, alright. So Joe Thurston is at third, and he sucks on offense and is a second baseman, and Skip Schumaker is at second and he sucks on defense and is really a left fielder, and Chris Duncan is in left and he sucks—
DAN: For now. You're pretty smug for a fictional construct who just learned what OPS+ is.
GUY: Yeah, sure. For now. So why not move Joe Thurston to second, Skip to left, Dunc to, I don't know, Memphis? Barden or somebody can make up a lot of runs on defense by pushing Thirdston and Duncan off the field.
DAN: Because Skip is The Second Baseman. And at the risk of getting too Monty Python about it, he's getting better; his UZR/150 has continued its descent from -30, his offense has pushed him over replacement level, and his presence at second is no longer the visiting announcer running joke of choice. It's faint praise, but right now he's fielding like Dan Uggla, who is a real, live second baseman, and he's hitting a little better than most.
Knowing what we do now—that the top three guys on the Cardinals' depth chart at third would be completely ineffective for more than half of the season, that neither Duncan nor Ankiel would outhit the ex-fourth outfielder—it makes sense to align the defense that way. If nothing else it's more aesthetically pleasing to watch Thurston hit .200 at second, a light-hitting position.
But the Cardinals didn't know that, for whatever reason, and it's not like Schumaker's keystone adventure is totally without benefit. Skip and Thurston may both be one, one and a half win players at second, but Schumaker is the unknown quantity; there's more room at the upper end of his projections than there is for the one win fill-ins the Cardinals usually throw at second at the last minute. If his defense continues to improve, or even if it doesn't, he fills the hole, instead of patching it, while the Cardinals see what their high-risk second base prospects, like Daniel Descalso and Aaron Luna, do over more than one season. Skip's not young, but he looks like a useful part next year, which is more than can be said for the average Cardinals second baseman in July.
GUY: I guess. So, the vaunted La Russa bench. It's not looking good from here. That's a lot of sub-replacement-level at-bats. 734, to be exact, if you count from Ankiel at number nine all the way down to the first guy who doesn't suck, Jarrett Hoffpauir.
DAN: Yeah. Yeah, it's really too bad, because the Cardinals have finally behaved well, depth-wise, and gotten dumped on for their good deed. All those minor league depth guys, Stavinoha, Robinson, Freese, have finally heeded the call and stunk up the joint; only Hoffpauir has shown up, although since he is now a 2009 Cardinal Bench Player just give him a few minutes. This is no way to reinforce good habits; it's like Chuck E. Cheese offering to steal tokens from kids in exchange for good report cards.
Is there hope on the horizon? Only in the form of The Mean. Stavinoha's not very good, but he's probably not this bad—same for Tyler Greene and Brian Barden. Khalil Greene is a long shot, but even if he doesn't return his stint will become a smaller piece of the pie as the year goes on. And either Ankiel's hurt or my watch is stopped; whether it means he'll recover on the DL or over this time off, I don't know, but nobody's as bad as he's been in July, not even an injured Rick Ankiel.
GUY: Okay. So where to from here? Ludwick seems to have taken the Holliday talk to heart; he's having an alright year.
DAN: Only recently. But all it's taken is a remarkable start to July to push his OPS higher than Holliday's; it's amazing how much concenrated lost-season a half a month with a 1.200 OPS can pick up.
This is a team, as the best MV3 squads were, with a lot of easily definable holes. (It's not as good, but the shape is the same.) And if one must have a flawed contender, I think that's the one to get. Better performance from the sinkholes at third, one corner of the outfield, and the fifth member of the rotation—even if it's still not very good—will make the kind of major difference that a team of average players would need to hunt down Roy Halladay to find. Some of it will happen internally, as Ankiel or Duncan shake out positively or negatively and somebody replaces Todd Wellemeyer. Externally the DeRosa injury hurt, because regardless of whether or not it was worth the Indians' take it was a perfect move in this direction, making major improvements at third, on the bench, and in the outfield. If he can come back at full strength, it's a real patch on a lot of the Cardinals' worst issues.
This team can get better; more significantly for Cardinals fans wary of trading Brett Wallace, it doesn't have to blow up at the deadline to do it.
GUY: Who's Brett Wallace?
DAN: Try Future Redbirds.
#
Two: Recently SBN's central division writers—Your Host; Stephen Higdon at Crawfish Boxes; Kyle Lobner at Brew Crew Ball, Slyde at Red Reporter, Al Yellon at Bleed Cubbie Blue, and Charlie Wilmoth at Bucs Dugout—got together for an NL Central roundtable, moderated by Sky Kalkman of Beyond the Box Score. The second half was about, well, the second half. Here it is:
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): What surprising story lines from the first half of the season have shaped the standings the most?
Stephen Higdon (Astros): I think the thing that has by far shaped the standings and been the biggest surprise is the Cubs early season woes. I know a number of times at TCB, I have sort have marveled how the Astros, as terribly as they've played, are some how still somewhere in the NL Central hunt and it just doesn't make sense. The thing that has sort of been the defining element of the NL Central is inconsistency. No one has managed to eek out an sizable lead, nor has there been any really distinct separation of basement dwellers and contenders. While I doubt that it will remain that way through out the second half (as the BtB Power Rankings certainly indicate), the standings, as they are now, certainly make for an interesting July and Augustósomething I feel few would have predicted in March for the Central.
Kyle Lobner (Brewers): For the Brewers, three major disappointments and one major surprise have shaped the season. In the early going this season, Rickie Weeks was the straw that stirred the drink for the Brewers, but when he went down with a torn tendon sheath in his wrist, the Brewers were left with a hole at second base and in their leadoff spot. They've used no less than five players in the leadoff spot since, and have yet to find the answer. Across the bag at shortstop, J.J. Hardy's complete inability to hit has left the Brewers searching for hitting, which isn't a problem the team was anticipating. Hardy is hitting just .226 with a sub .300 OBP and limited power. Thankfully, his defense balances some of it out. Finally, the sudden and precipitous decline of Manny Parra left a major hole in the rotation that the Brewers weren't prepared to replace, but hopefully spending some time in the minors straightened him out.
On the positive side, the Brewers have gotten more than anyone could have asked for from Casey McGehee, who has gone from waiver wire castoff to NL ROTY candidate in about two months.
Slyde (Reds): I think the Cubs and Cardinals are the two surprise stories of the year for the NL Central. Personally, I didn't expect the Cubs to be as good as the media was anointing them to be, but I expected them to be a lot better than they have been. I think the injury to Aramis Ramirez really hurt them beyond what they probably imagined it would and the poor performance of Rich Harden has to be a surprise. The Cardinals are a surprise not necessarily because they are winning, but because of how they've done it this year. They were outstanding offensively to start the season, but have been carried by their pitching of late. I guess I should stop being surprised when a team with Albert Pujols does well, but I really didn't expect the Cardinals to be much better than a .500 team this year. Perhaps they'll fall back, but every time I think they're going to slip up, they seem to keep chugging.
Al Yellon (Cubs): The Cubs' woes are well known. Frankly, i put a lot of the blame for this on Jim Hendry, who, along with Lou Piniella, apparently decided that the reason the Cubs lost the 2008 NLDS to the Dodgers was that they weren't lefthanded enough. That wasn't the reason, but the Cubs dropped the popular and productive Mark DeRosa and added Milton Bradley, who has been horrendous most of the first half. Bradley's been a bit better lately, but Adam Dunn would have been a better free-agent signing. I didn't think this was a better team than last year's going in, so maybe it's not a surprise the Cubs are struggling, but I did expect better than .500 play.
Charlie Wilmoth (Pirates): I can't disagree with everyone who's been surprised by the Cubs (and I'd add Alfonso Soriano's poor start to their long list of troubles), but the excellent return of Chris Carpenter from injury, along with some really great performances by other Cardinals pitchers (Ryan Franklin, Joel Pineiro, Trever Miller) have to rank up there as well. I suppose surprisingly good Cardinal pitching barely qualifies as a real surprise anymore, though--it seems like every year they have a Kyle Lohse or a Todd Wellemeyer who comes out of nowhere.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Which of those surprises are most likely to continue throughout the rest of the season? I.e. which are flukes and which are for real?
Kyle Lobner (Brewers): Well, obviously Rickie Weeks isn't going to come back. Aside from that, the Brewers hope J.J. Hardy's luck will even out, Manny Parra is straightened out and Casey McGehee stays hot. Of the three, McGehee is probably the least likely to maintain his current pace. If Manny Parra doesn't come back strong and the Brewers don't make a move, they could pitch themselves out of contention.
Al Yellon (Cubs): I'd have to expect that Bradley will come back to at least somewhat close to his previous performance. I doubt he'll come up to the standard he set with the Rangers last year -- much of which was accomplished as a DH -- but if he can even split the difference between 2008 and first-half 2009, it will help. I'd like to see the Cubs try him at leadoff, since he isn't driving in runs but is leading the team in OBA.
Charlie Wilmoth (Pirates): Casey McGehee is a huge fluke; his OPS right now is 150 points higher than any untranslated OPS he's ever posted at any stop, in the majors or the minors. He should regress enormously in the second half. I think Soriano will probably bounce back to a degree, but not as much as Cubs fans might hope--he has often looked very sluggish. Still, I expect the Cubs to recover somewhat and give the Cardinals a strong race. Aramis Ramirez's return will help a lot.
Dan Moore (Cardinals): The Cardinals have spent the bulk of the season with such luminaries as Joe Thurston and Skip Schumaker as the offensive second banana. With Colby Rasmus hitting home runs and last year's surprise, Ryan Ludwick, finally finding his bat, that won't be an issue. The Cardinals will have a hitter on either side of Albert Pujols in the second half, but it might still only be two of them.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Which big local stories aren't getting as much attention from the national media? Should they be?
Stephen Higdon (Astros): I think the big story for the Astros has been Michael Bourn's outstanding bounce back at the plate. Although he is starting to come back down to earth in the AVG department, his near .360 OBP has been a true boon for the Astros and something that I myself would have never predicted. He has been fairly efficent on the basepaths and in spite of his UZR rating, most defensive metrics have him pegged as one of the better CF in the NL, and it is something you never hear mentioned in the national media. Not that I blame them because it's not like there is much of a reason to pay attention to things that are happening here in the Bayou City on the baseball diamond.
Other noteworthy tidbits would probably be the Astros tremendous struggle to keep the bullpen healthy and the way that LaTroy Hawkins has established himself as a more than capable back-end of the bullpen pitcher in the wake of Valverde's six week hiatus following a calf strain. If the Astros are going to be sellers at the deadline (something I don't think will happen given the bunched standings in the Central) I would imagine that Hawkins will be a prime target for teams looking for someone to help anchor their bullpen; yet he's someone who I hear nothing about, but maybe things will change as the trade deadline gets closer.
Kyle Lobner (Brewers): At the moment, I think the national media is too steadfast in the belief that the Brewers will implode if they don't make a move. Certainly, the Brewer starting rotation struggled through June and early July, but Manny Parra pitched well in his return from AAA and Dave Bush could be back on July 20. If Bush comes back strong, the Brewers would be back to their opening day rotation, which led them to a 33-24 start. They'll do their due dilligence on guys like Roy Halladay, Javier Vazquez et al, but there's a pretty good possibility that this team could contend for a playoff spot without moving anyone.
Al Yellon (Cubs): Best-kept secret in the National League is Randy Wells -- who the Cubs thought so little of a year ago that they let him go in the Rule 5 draft to the Blue Jays. Thanks, Toronto, for sending him back. He's made 11 starts, all but one of them good, and should have three more wins because the bullpen blew games for him (or the Cubs failed to score). He's a genuine Rookie of the Year candidate.
Slyde (Reds): I'm not sure if everyone knows about Joey Votto outside of his "stress-related issues." He's 36 PAs short of qualifying for batting rate stats, but if he did, he'd be 1st in AVG, 3rd in OBP, and 4th in SLG. Also there is the dramatic improvement to the Reds pitching and defense this season. I'd guess that most people still figure the Reds are an offense first team, but they've been getting it done more on the other side of the ball this year. They are middle of the pack in ERA, but given their ballpark, that is a definite step up. Of course, outside of Votto, they can't actually do anything positive on offense to take advantage of the better pitching.
Dan Moore (Cardinals): Rick Ankiel's not a national story now that he's fulfilled the movie narrativeóhe came back, he was very successful for a year, end of national media attention. But he's more or less fallen off the face of the earth this year; if the season ended today, his OPS would be 40 points lower than it was in 2000, his one brilliant season on the mound. He's stayed in the lineup almost by default, because Chris Duncan is hitting nearly as poorly and plays defense like a converted linebacker, but recently he admitted to a lingering injury from that brutal outfield-wall collision. It's a big local story, but it doesn't fit into the Rick Ankiel Narrative.
Sky Kalkman (Moderator): How about ending with one bold prediction we won't hold you accountable for if you're wrong, but we'll worship at your feet for if it comes true?
Al Yellon (Cubs): Alfonso Soriano goes on one of his patented hot streaks, carries the Cubs for a month, and they win the division by five games.
Stephen Higdon (Astros): Cecil Cooper gets fired if the Astros drop more than 2 of their first five series after the break...Manny Acta, keep your phone close.
Slyde (Reds): The Reds trade for both Matt Holliday and Roy Halladay. A confused Dusty Baker bats Halladay fourth and Holliday 9th. When questioned about it, he responds that he actually meant to bat Halladay 2nd so that he could bunt runners over and waste outs in front of Joey Votto.
Charlie Wilmoth (Pirates): Albert Pujols wins the Triple Crown.
Kyle Lobner (Brewers): The division comes down to the last week to ten days of the season, and four teams are within 5-7 games of first place when the season ends.
Dan Moore (Cardinals): Rick Ankiel comes out of the bullpen on the last day of the season, with Todd Wellemeyer on the ropes, and clinches the division championship with a 12-6 curveball across the outside corner.
1 recs |
146 comments
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Comments
on the last point, i have thought more than once - -
right now, could rick ankiel be any worse a reliever than a left fielder? and the answer is probably yes. but it crosses my mind.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've wondered myself
if Ank has thought about pitching again out of frustration from not hitting.
by from First to Third on Jul 17, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
only if he pitches from the outfield
will he be better
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 17, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Leave it to the BCB writer...
to predict glory for his beloved boys in blue. Everyone else was either objective or humorous. The Cubs aren’t winning any division by 5 games…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 17, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I laughed when I read it
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jul 17, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...
I should have said intentionally humorous.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 17, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the Cubs fans I know
And I know a few, from growing up in central Illinois, are just now coming around to acknowledging that this division may not be the foregone conclusion they thought it to be. Painting with the broad brush here, but I couldn’t believe how many of them were so confident about it from the outset.
I mean, I’d have had them as the favorite too and they still very well may win, but baseball is a funny game. You’d think Cubs fans, of all people, would know that. I’d think they could also see that the team was built for 2007 and 2008 as much as anything. Doesn’t mean that the window closes instantly, just means time isn’t their friend at all.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 17, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
being in west central il
in a 50/50 cards/cubs area, some think that would be a defendable and factual statement.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
by elirock83 on Jul 17, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you obviously don't get it
to be a cubs writer is to exist in a fantasy land completely divorced from any sort of objective reality where other teams exist and play baseball. other teams don’t have bad luck. they don’t lose key players for entire months or even seasons. and they especially don’t have the dates with destiny that the small bears do.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 17, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to be anything with the flubs is to exist in a fantasy land
i’m so thankful i’m a Cardinals fan. so very, very thankful.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but they are not as bad as their playing right now
I mean… they suck!
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree...
I just find it hilarious that he’s not only predicting they will win the division, but by FIVE games. It’s delusion at its best. The only way the Cubs gain eight games on the Cardinals in just over two months is if we lose a major piece or two. In my opinion at least…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 17, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
I made sure not to mention any names. I may have been referring to Joe Thurston. Or Rick Ankiel.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 17, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in which case the question is "a major piece" of what?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the mods have informed me i'm not allowed to answer this question
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't underestimate the impact Thurston has
Ripping on him is what keeps VEB sane.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did Dan have a bad experience at Chuck E Cheese's?
Dan Uggla, who is a real, live second baseman
Shocked! I am shocked to hear this!
Nice work Dan.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2009 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my only bad experience at chuck e. cheese
was when they removed the last of their pinball machines. a catastrophe, if ever there was one.
by DanUpBaby on Jul 17, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have many memories as a young robot
but when I was about 9 I was eating pizza at Chuck E. Cheese and didn’t chew enough (or something). The cheese just stretched as I swallowed all the way down to my stomach. For a 9 year old, it was a very disconcerting feeling.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 17, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that wasn't cheese
how disconcerting is that?
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 17, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've never seen the inside of a chuck e cheese
true story
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Showbiz Pizza is where we went in my day
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 17, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was sad when I realized the name had changed.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where a kid can be a kid!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like your sig
just noticed it now
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Restraining orders require you to stay at least 200 yards away from one at all times
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That makes two of us
though I used to go to birthday parties at a pizza joint in St. Louis in the ‘60s that had a player piano…it may have been a Shakey’s pizza parlor.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 17, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wells a ROY candidate?
Please…
Nelly > Dunc
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 17, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he's the 3rd best rookie pitcher in the NL
so yes, that’s using the word candidate loosely.
Players ahead of Wells for ROY (pitchers and hitters)
1. Rasmus
2. Hanson
3. Happ
by dcfcblues on Jul 17, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McClutchen (sp?) ?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 17, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i believe
it’s McCutcheon
but you may have just stumbled upon a good nickname for him
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not -- it's McCutchen
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 17, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I was mistaken on this
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 17, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd say i was pretty close
one silent vowel away
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCutchen has only
been up the last 6 weeks or so hasn’t he?
by mopack on Jul 17, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's been uo since
at least may or so if not april
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 18, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
June 4th was his major league debut
called up the day they traded McLouth
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 18, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happ and Hanson have gotten amazingly lucky
Their FIP’s are in the high 4’s. Jordan Zimmerman on the other hand…
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 17, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, the Pirates
When asked to give a prediction for the second half, he made a prediction about a Cardinals player
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
noticed that too.
it probably sounded better than “we will trade away most of our remaining players with any value and fight the astros for last place.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a few Astros friends and they refuse to accept that the shitty position they're in
Or at least, they’ll be in very soon. Aging vets and no farm, mixed with limited budget = years of shittiness to come
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the Pirates rebuliding plan
Selling high on players like Morgan and McClouth, while getting some young guys with potential… if only they would bring up Ian Snell.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind seeing
what it would take to get him. If the price is right, it could have some nice upside
by mopack on Jul 18, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he's basically an average starter
Which is a pretty big upgrade over Welly/Thompson. Also, going by his stuff and some isolated performances (like his 17 K game in AAA this year), he appears to have some upside left.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 18, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he should've made a prediction about those two Indian players
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 18, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: wooooooo
i just scored tix to monday’s game at minute maid
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
congrats!
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 17, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my
cubs fan friends are usually delusional when it comes to comparing the baby bears to the rest of baseball but have been quite quiet recently. i think in part to realization that merry was talking about. though they do keep talking about this 17 out of 20 streak that is going to fall out of the heavens and give them the division….but even they admit, not by 5 games.
"A slick way to out-figure a person is to get him figuring you figure he's figuring you're figuring he'll figure you aren't really figuring what you want him to figure you figure." ~ Whitey Herzog
by birdsonabat on Jul 17, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or they just gave up
and jumped off the bandwagon
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
by BVHeck on Jul 20, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Story
Girlfriend drives home for the weekend… Friday night plans foiled.
Best Buddy A has to work all weekend… Friday night plans foiled.
Best Buddy B is in Cali for 2 weeks… Friday night plans foiled.
Chick from work is out of town with friends… Friday night plans foiled.
Call up Best Buddy C, visit Stub Hub, find seats, we each drive 3 hours from different directions to watch Carp kickoff the second half for my first in-person game of the year.
Friday night saved.
by soil_illini on Jul 17, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Friday night saved? priceless.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 18, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but really
what is OPS+?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i have no freaking clue
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think
it’s like OPS and then a little more
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so OPSBIPWAR?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my head just exploded
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was
TEGOPSWAR
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 17, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can only assume it's an object oriented version of OPS
but i’m waiting for OPS#
by brackenthebox on Jul 17, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lulz
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OPS++
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
12... in the case of Rick Ankiel
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Julio Lugo?
rumors are that the Red Sox are going to release him. Does anyone think it might be a good idea to pick him up for the league min? He’s decent offensively and couldn’t be any worse than Joe Thurston.
by DJ87 on Jul 17, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
According to MLBTradeRumors
We have inquired. Link.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just read that too
and am kinda like wtf? don’t we have enough “forgot how to play baseball stars” on the team.
But it would cost next to nothing in money and prospects, but the guy just has seemed to have lost it.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
by elirock83 on Jul 17, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it seems like he can get on base at a decent clip
.350 or so. I assume if the report is true, it’s the “cheap back-up plan” kind of inquiry. Or at least I hope so.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
He’d be the 5th best hitter on our team right now. Of course it appears as though he’s playing defense while simultaneously trying to conceal that he crapped his pants for the whole year, but if Oquendo has 1/10 the magic touch some people in these internets seem to think we can turn him into a gold glover!
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 17, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the Cards in on all of these shortstops
I can’t help but think that the Blue Jays are requiring Brendan Ryan in any deal for Halladay
by mysterui on Jul 17, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus, Lugo?
Well, can he hit LHP anyway?
by goodymobb on Jul 17, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the Phillies
are asking too much for Miguel Cairo.
by the Tewk on Jul 17, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
the problem is, he won’t replace joe. he’s a SS. Tony is under the stupid impression joe is a 3rdbaseman. joe is like a cockroach. there’s nothing you can do to get rid of him. even dropping a nuke on him. he already survived MO trading for DeRo. case in point TLR starting DeRo in left his first game after the trade when MO specifically said DeRo would play at 3rd! i’m convinced he’ll haunt us for years to come. at least as long as Tony’s around. which will be for as long as he wants.
if anything he’d replace Boog or Skippy. two guys he really shouldn’t. Skippy maybe, but only if he’s moved back to LF. a spot many have pointed out in the past he really shouldn’t be a regular in.
so again, no.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Lugo to SS and Boog to 3b?
by OCCardsFan on Jul 17, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boog's D is better no?
so it makes no sence to replace him right?
i could be wrong, but unless he moves Skippy to LF & takes over 2nd i don’t see how he makes the team better. and i fully expect me to be wrong.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
boog's best position is shortstop
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 18, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thurston = the new Miles
the way you talk about him. It makes it seem as though Joe Thurston is Tony’s new Aaron Miles – a crappy infield who he shows undying devotion to for no reason. I’m not sure it has reached that yet, at least I hope not.
by DJ87 on Jul 17, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm afraid it's worse, much, much worse
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not the same
at least Miles had a decent batting avg and was a switch-hitter
by the Tewk on Jul 17, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lugo was released already
i think it’s worth thinking about
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well,
DFAed to be exact
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big difference there
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 17, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
only for a week or so
i don’t they’re going to be able to trade him unless they eat a huge portion of his salary. so, he’ll most certainly go on waivers and we claim him
or we trade him for matt carpenter or some other non factor low minor leaguer
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but how many other teams will think "hey, free SS"? we're at almost the very end
of the list. iirc, he gets shopped to all the other AL teams first, starting with the weakest. then the NL teams, starting with the weakest by record. we’re what, 3rd by record in the NL? so, if 26 other teams don’t want a free SS, we can get him.
we’d have to trade something for him.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't trade matt carpenter
He just got drafted this year.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 17, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah, forgot about that
but you get the idea
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he sounds okay
I don’t think he would be much better than Thurston or Greene, but at least he’s a righty and can hit a little. Also, he’s been playing in the AL East in each of the past couple of years, so he will likely improve with a move to little league er… the NL Central.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear all the time
about how much tougher the AL is, especially the East, but is there any actual data that shows that players actually perform any differently? I am not saying there isn’t, I just can’t think of any players who left the AL East and became significantly better players in the NL.
Manny was pretty ridiculous last year in his brief time in the NL, but Manny probably has a number of two-month streaks like that over his career. Johan Santana has actually had higher FIPs in the NL. I mean, last I checked Scott Rolen was in the hunt for a batting title. That Jason Bay guy is doing pretty well too.
If you have a link or something I think it would be interesting to check out.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 17, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I can tell you is the AL has done signficantly better against the NL
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/5/31/890800/graph-of-the-day-interleague
Most people agree that the difference in league talent is around 10 wins or so. I wouldn’t be outlandish to say that a good portion of that is because of better hitting.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 18, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lugo? No thanks
He’ll be another Izturis.
Nelly > Dunc
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 18, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, except, you know, the total opposite and in a completely different situation.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 18, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup
Schumaker, 2B
Rasmus, CF
Pujols, 1B
Ludwick, RF
Duncan, LF
Molina, C
Thurston, 3B
Carpenter, P
Ryan, SS
by OCCardsFan on Jul 17, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lineup WIN
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm sorry, nobody wins when thurston starts
stop it gdm! just fucking stop it! the horse is dead! let him rest in peace!
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonight's lineups
per P-D:
DIAMONDBACKS:
Lopez, 2B
Drew, SS
Upton, RF
Reynolds, 3B
Montero, C
Parra, LF
Young, CF
Whitesell, 1B
Garland, P
CARDINALS:
Shoemaker, 2B
Colby-wan, CF
El Hombre, 1B
Studwick, RF
Chris “…sigh…” Duncan, LF
Yadi, C
Thursty, 3B
“Jesus Was A” Carpenter, P
Boog, SS
by santiagofish on Jul 17, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
uh, doh
Brought to you by the Department of Redun….never mind.
by santiagofish on Jul 17, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least Stavinoah isn't playing
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the game hasn't started yet
i’ve got a feeling dunc is going to sneeze and next thing we know, stavi has infected his way into the starting line-up
by BirdsonFire on Jul 17, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the Ark spelling
of his name?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 17, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
noah's ark
stavinoha
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
concerning rotoworld post.
Derosa says he will need surgery on his tendon/ligament (think i’ve seen both?) sheath. Says it “may” wait till the off-season.
Odds on Derosa returning this week to be mostly ineffective for 4-5 games and then returning to the DL for the rest of the season: 3-2.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
based on . . .
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where's
our money back guaranteed
i’m not 100% satisfied. the ptbnl better not be jess todd
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sound like you've been through this before
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous....
Now I’m beginning to doubt Cleveland’s knowledge of this injury. Not only that, Cleveland gets a possible closer, Jess Todd/Francisco Samuel for nothing because DeRosa is a free agent after this year.
Did we get screwed or what?
I think we have to go after Holliday now, not Halladay.
'Stay Thursty My Friends' - Tony LaRussa
by The_teague on Jul 17, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we will undoubtedly sign DeRosa to try to save face
Then he will fail to come back with any sort of power next year…
by OCCardsFan on Jul 17, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the Cards will learn from the Glaus debacle...
and try to keep tabs on their signings. If they do sign DeRosa again after this year, he needs to have that surgery immediately after we sign him. As well as strength training so as to make sure he can still swing with authority…
He may not get signed until he passes a physical anyways…
'Stay Thursty My Friends' - Tony LaRussa
by The_teague on Jul 17, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think all chances of signing derosa except as a late offseason low-cost pickup
disappeared. just say no to signing guys recovering from wrist injuries.
also, we will now get no draft picks from derosa, because we won’t offer him arbitration. what he would get in arbitration would be ridiculous if he’s really going to be out/ineffective for the first large chunk of the season — which you probably have to assume after wrist surgery.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and now rotoworld says derosa says he feels really good
and wants to play tomorrow.
translation: surgery within the week?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tom, you're making me cry
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fear not
derosa will be beaned in his first at bat and forced to retire
by BirdsonFire on Jul 17, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea why...
But this almost made me choke on my delicious dinner.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 17, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a "haha" way...
Not a bad way…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 17, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know what i do when i feel like crying, VEP?
i drink.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 17, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the Cards will learn from the Mulder debacle
and not sign Glaus.
"Every epoch dreams its successor" - Jules Michelet
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 17, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We got Bottenfielded.
"Every epoch dreams its successor" - Jules Michelet
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 17, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottenfield'd!!!!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 17, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind at all if we gave up samuel
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 18, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
who knows if he ever gets his control
of course if we never get a hit out of mark derosa, that’s a pretty steep price
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 18, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the GOB's want Thurston to play everday...
Seriously, there have been like 6 third baseman injured in front of Thurston.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 17, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if we just call 3B, Second Shortstop...maybe we can keep someone there without injury...
'Stay Thursty My Friends' - Tony LaRussa
by The_teague on Jul 17, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me, Tallstop
'Stay Thursty My Friends' - Tony LaRussa
by The_teague on Jul 17, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why they are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling
bastards
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 17, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More likely
that he will come back too soon, suck pretty miserably, say he is fine, and then after an extended period of suckitude will admit he was hurting the whole time. I’ve seen this movie before.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 17, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was great,
and Sylde’s answer for the Reds also cracked me up.
"I will grow a mustache bigger than Wyatt Earp's if we keep winning," - Adam Wainwright
by Beware the Molinas on Jul 17, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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