Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: RSL Soapbox for Real Salt Lake Fans!

Cardinals Trade Value



Over at Fangraphs, Dave Cameron is doing a MLB Trade Value Series.  I'm going to attempt to do a top ten in trade value list for the Cardinals organization.  This is not a prospect list; if you want to see one of those and all the discussion that goes along with on, check out Erik's Mid Season Prospect Rankings over at Future Redbirds.  This is a subjective look at how valuable our top assets would be on the trade market.  Dave Cameron says it better than me:

Essentially, the idea is to take all the information that goes into encapsulating a player’s value to an organization - his present skills, his future potential, how long he’s under club control, the expected cost of paying him over that time, and the risks involved with projecting his future performances - and figure out which players currently have the most trade value in baseball.

 

Basically, the better their place on this list, the more we'd expect to get in return if we traded them.  I will add that I also took positional saturation into consideration for my rankings(We have a ton of LH hitting OF, so Ank and Dunc aren't as valuable as they would be if we didn't have any in our system)   So, without further ado, here is my list.  * indicates who I consider untouchable...no injured players included

1.  Albert Pujols*--This is a no-brainer.  He's the best player in baseball, signed for 2 and a half more years(includes option year) and is getting paid at a below-market value.  Obviously, if we traded him this year, we would expect the other team's entire farm system in return, plus the hottest women(or men for those ladies reading) in the team's respective city.

2.  Colby Rasmus*--He'll be super cheap for at least the next two years(he'll probably be a super-two), then be arbitration eligible, which would still be a good deal for any club.  He plays GG caliber defense in a premium position, and has some serious offensive upside.  Basically, he is they type of piece you build a team around.

3.  Adam Wainwright*--Ace in the making(may already be there) signed to a team friendly contract through 2011, with options in '12 and '13 that, based on current performance, are also at a discounted rate($9mil and $12mil, respectively).  He also looks to be a workhorse(I'm gonna write off last season's DL as a freak injury).  I'm always going to rate a proven pitcher high on these lists because, as we all know, TINSTAAPP, so having proven pitching is incredibly valuable.

4.  Brett Wallace--Young, cost controlled talent with major upside is always going to be a valuable asset.  Add to that his potential of sticking at third, and he is even more valuable.  IMHO, you can always find a 1B or LF with offensive upside; 3B, not so easy to find(Exhibit A=Joe Thurston).  He's not untouchable because of the chances of him not sticking at third, and therefore being blocked by the best player on the planet.  If he had a little more pop, he might be above Waino on the list, but as is, he still a very valuable asset.

5.  Yadier Molina--Best defensive catcher in baseball bar none.  Also shows a real ability to call games and handle a pitching staff.  Last two seasons, he has shown the ablitity to handle the bat, which makes him much more valuable.  He's still young and is signed to a team friendly contract until 2012. 

6.  Shelby Miller--Some of you are not going to agree with this one, and to be honest, I'm not sure I even agree.  He hasn't thrown a professional pitch(heck, he hasn't even signed yet), there's TINSTAAPP to deal with, and he hasn't thrown a professional pitch.  Still, he is a potential #1 pitcher that throws 97 with nice movement and has a out pitch in his curveball.  Learning the changeup will really make his value as a starter soar.  I know he can't be traded till a year after he signs, but I guarantee he is one of the first guys other team will ask about in trade talks next year.

7.  Clayton Mortensen

8.  Mitchell Boggs--Both of these pitchers are potential #3's in a rotation.  They are young, can and will eat up innings, and have been moderately successful at AAA(Boggs has even had some success at the ML level).  I put Mort above because he is one year closer to arbitration and FA.

9.  Jason Motte--He throws really hard, but lacks a secondary pitch.  If he figures the slider out, he would soar up this chart, as that would make him a closer candidate(he already is really, that would just solidify it).  Best thing about him may be the command that he has shown.  I would like to put him higher, but with only one pitch, his ceiling is probably set-up man(and yes I realize that often set-up men are in higher leverage situations than closers, but other GM don't seem to realize that)

10.  Daniel Descalso--Middle infield prospects that can handle the bat, and play average to slightly above average defense are valuable and hard to come by(especially in the Cardinal org.)  I may be letting myself get Niko'd(getting hopes up only to have them dashed next season), but I think this guy could be guarding the keystone in St. Louis as early as next season, and I think he could be there for a while.  Cost-controlled and young, he showed some real pop in AA with a ISO of .208 and an acceptable walk rate.  His BABIP is a tad high, but if he can hit .300 with some pop and good defense, he's a pretty valuable piece.  Even moreso if he can keep his OBP in the .370 range like it was at AA and has been thus far at AAA.

HM(in no order): Lance Lynn, Peter Kozma, Francisco Samuel, Jess Todd(almost made it), Aaron Luna, Tyler Henley

Oh crap!  I completely forgot about Daryl Jones.  He'd probably slot in at #7.  Leadoff man potential in the Carl Crawford mold.  Still young and has shown a really advance batting eye.  I would much rather have a player who has a good eye and is developing power than a player with good power who is developing a good eye.

Thoughts?

3 recs  |  Comment 69 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Intersting idea

I would personally put Yadier in front of Wallace (when you consider defense and position, the gap in hitting would have to be monumental to make Wallace better), and I would probably add Lohse in there too. An above average starter signed below market value to a long term deal is a somewhat valuable commodity. And of course Ludwick has to be included; he’s a 3-4 WAR player who isn’t making much money at all.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 15, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yea

i’d be ok with switching yadi and wallace…but loshe isn’t on my list, his no trade clause makes me think he would make the other team sweeten his deal somehow, and his contract could be bad in two years…completely spaced on luddy

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lohse?

no way. and i’m not sure he was signed below market value

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Jul 15, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NTC. Also.

Doesn’t make him an impossible trade, but you’d have to give him a reason to waive it.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jul 15, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 guys who should be on this list
  1. Ryan Ludwick would probably be #4 on my list behind Albert, Adam, and Colby.
  2. Daryl Jones would be around #7 or #8. (Ok, so you added him at the bottom — I missed that)
  3. Kyle McClellan would be knock Descalso off the list easily. The fact that he could be stretched back into a starter and also has the stuff to close at some point would make him a valuable trade commodity — much more valuable than Motte, who is much older and one dimensional.

Molina should be ahead of Wallace, imo, just considering position, defense, and his ability to hit for league average when position adjusted. On the list of “Untouchables”, though, he would rank a close second to Albert as long as TLR is in the clubhouse.

I love this idea and we should re-evaluate this the week before the deadline in case anything changes in the next couple of weeks.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 15, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with molina

I love yadi to death but I dont think his trade value is as high as you might think. First off teams that already have a C are out of the mix lowering his value. I think he is extremely valuable to the cards but not in a trade.

by el_hombre on Jul 15, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just what i was thinkin

Molina’s value to other teams would be the highest in the offseason when a team would be looking for a catcher unlike in the middle unless there are a ton of injuries

by KyleW on Jul 15, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

The Blue Jays wouldn’t be interested in Molina because they have a catcher? I disagree. The only teams I can think of that wouldn’t be interested in Yadi are the O’s, Twins, Braves, Indians, and Dodgers. I fully believe he would have value to nearly every other team.

Look at the contract that Matheny got from the Giants a few years back…then consider that Yadi is younger, better with the bat, and half the cost of that for another 3 years. Thats a lot of value…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 15, 2009 12:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

There is a problem in general

with teams needing to have openings for any established players, and not just for Yadi.

Even with Albert, you need a place for him. I know, you’d make room for Albert, but teams might rather spend their trading resources patching a bigger hole.

Let’s take Albert. The Phillies already have Howard. The Brewers already have Fielder. The Astros Berkman. If I’m GM of the Phillies, 1B is probably not the main position I’m looking for a player. Yeah, I could try flipping Howard for something else, but it is easier to just trade for that in the first place.

Over in the AL, they also have the DH to squeeze people in, but talent tends to accumulate on that end of the defensive spectrum, so it does not totally help. For example, The Yankees have a star first baseman, and they have a glut of DH types. The Red Sox, too, are set at first and DH.

What you need for any established player is for the other team to have a clear hole with established stars.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The more I think on it,

the more I question Pujols being ranked first, at least if we are talking about making a trade deadline deal with a contender.

Of the contenders, most are set at first:

Boston, New York, Tampa, Detroit, Chicago (AL), Minnesota, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Houston, and Chicago (NL) are unlikely to be looking for first basemen. Yes, Albert would be an upgrade, in some cases quite a bit, but the these teams have established (often expensive) first basemen they are unlikely to replace. (Yes, Derek Lee is not very good anymore, but I doubt the Cubs are going to replace him this season).

Texas probably doesn’t want to block Smoak, so they might not be interested. Florida has first base prospects and scrimps on payroll, so I don’t see them as being interested.

So that leaves both of the Los Angeles teams, and Seattle if you see them as a contender. I guess if only three contenders are interested in trading for Pujols right now, I have trouble saying he has the highest value.

I’m not sure what we’d get if we played this game with non-contenders, but my guess is most would take Rasmus or Wallace over Pujols.

So while Albert is the best player in baseball, I’m not sure at this moment if he has the highest trade value.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this wasn't really about value in this trade market per se

its just who i think would bring back the most value in a trade…and someone would find a place to put pujols if we decided we wanted to trade him and we would expect a hefty hefty return

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I understand

But it got me thinking, and it raised some interesting issues, in terms of supply and demand and openings. I wasn’t trying to argue with you as much as I was musing about how odd it was that while Pujols is an awesome player there probably are not that many teams who really would want to trade for him right now.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh and boston would certainly move youk to third

and bring in pujols to play first…lowell is done as a difference making player in their opinion…they are looking at rolen right now

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh god I would kick a puppy.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'd kick a mozeliak

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd kick a

LaRussa

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jul 16, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought about that

But I thought I had heard someplace that there were some concerns that Youk has lost some of his defense at third and was turning into more of a first baseman.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we were offering pujols I can guarrantee every team would be very interested.

To say a contender wouldn’t bend over backwards to scoop him up and find a spot for a guy who is as clutch as can possibly be and isn’t that relatively expensive for 2 more years is just not true. Who says if Youk or some established 1B has to stay that Pujols can’t go back to 3rd? I’d put him at 3B if for some reason there were NO other options or LF, or 2B even…I don’t care you find a spot for him.

by ADMDrayson on Jul 15, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His arm?

I would think Pujols is pretty much locked in at 1B now. I’m not sure what shape his elbow’s in (obviously it’s not bothering him), but since he never opted to have Tommy John, I’m not sure he’s in good shape to be throwing across the diamond as much as a 3B would have to.

by mtalken on Jul 15, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Albert moved to first because of his arm. If he could play somewhere else, he would be doing it. IF Tony could play Albert at 3B and Duncan at 1B, he’d be doing it.

And I think the number of teams that will take on that much more payroll is pretty limited. Yeah, his contract is a good value, but it’s still money, and you have to have the payroll flexibility.

Yeah, it makes sense in the abstract, but teams live in the real world. So let’s say you are the Brewers. What do you do with Albert? He takes first, you put Fielder in LF, move Braun to RF, and pray no one hits any balls to the OF corners? Good luck fielding a defense containing three first basemen, two out of position.

A problem with first basemen is they don’t move to other positions well….

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

red sox, dodgers, rangers

they would all take him methinks

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear everything you're saying...

and there’s some logic to it, but I think you are way wrong. Pujols is easily the BEST player in baseball, and likely has a minimum of 4 or 5 more years at his current level of production left in him. The marketing value he would bring to a team easily offsets his salary, and the on field value he brings is irreplaceable. There are three teams I can think of that wouldn’t fall all over themselves at the chance to get him…San Diego (Gonzalez and cheap org.), Minnesota (Morneau and cheap org.) and the Yankees…wait, make that two teams.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 15, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you don't get the next 4-5 years

You get 2.

And while the Yankees have the cash, but I doubt either Albert or Tex want to be full-time DHs, and Tex probably has a no trade clause, so I doubt it would work.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get that...

but a receiving team has to be thinking extension out of the gate. Players like Pujols come along once a generation, if that. I’m not sure you can actually measure his value. I stand by the two teams above as the only ones that wouldn’t……..

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 16, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SI reported that he told Tony he was ready to play 3B if that's where the team needed him.

Thankfully, Tony said no.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 20, 2009 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but

that doesnt mean that tlr would actually risk AP’s elbow

by KyleW on Jul 20, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I think if a team had a chance at acquiring Pujols then their “clog” at first base suddenly opens up. Justin Smoak is going to block Pujols?

by flipthebird on Jul 15, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all

The issue isn’t “Gee, would I rather play Justin Smoak or Albert Pujols?”

It’s more complex. A GM must ask:

“Do I want six years of cost controlled Justin Smoak, AND all of the other cost controlled prospects I am trading for Pujols, AND all of the other players I could get for the money I am paying Albert, AND all of the other players I would have been able to afford had I kept the other cost controlled prospects, or do I want Albert Pujols for maybe two years?”

This is going to depend on your balance sheet, your strength on the field, how many holes you have to fill, and what you think of all the players you are giving up.

And your own personal financial situation—you have to know that if you pull the trigger and make this deal, and Pujols snaps his tendon a month after you acquire him and needs Tommy John surgery, and the players you traded all excel, you’re not going to look too good.

Yeah, a GM might still make this deal, depending on all of the above. But it’s a lot more complex than “Does Justin Smoak block Pujols?”

And if your current first baseman has a no-trade clause, good luck unclogging him for fair value, if at all.

by tarakas on Jul 16, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols replacing Howard (or fielder for that matter)

Would result in a much higher net gain than almost anyone else you could acquire.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 16, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

The issue isn’t “On paper, does this make sense?” The issue is “Do real life teams with star first basemen and gaping holes in other places pick up another star first baseman?” Typically no.

In a situation like the Yankees, they did this with Jeter and A-rod, and one of them switched positions. But with Tex they can’t do this. And I bet he has a no-trade clause. So what do they do with two first basemen? I can’t see either of them accepting be a “half-player” and DH.

What was the last team with a star first basemen who picked up another one?

by tarakas on Jul 16, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying that

But that is his reputation among pitching coaches, so that means he does have value as a possible starting pitcher. Jason Motte does not, is older, and hasn’t been that much better than KMac this year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 16, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cool Post

But yeah, Ludwick needs to be in there.

Also, teams are always looking for bullpen help, and Franklin is effective and affordable, with a nice option for next year. He’s not a “name,” but a lot of teams would probably be happy to put him in their pen. The same thing goes for the lefties in the pen—someone is always looking for another effective LOOGY.

Also, Skip may have more value than you’d think. He’s a bit of a tweener in the OF, but he gets on base, plays all 3 OF positions and second base, and is a lefthanded bat. He’s not a star, but a lot of teams could use him, especially as a backup/bench player.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

franklin could go on my HM

i still think everyone on the list would bring back more value than franklin

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan deserves to be on the list

His value wouldn’t be as a left fielder. It would be as a Designated Hitter for an American League team. He has high upside and could provide a cheap bat with power in their lineup or off the bench.

by JWO on Jul 15, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

bat?

Duncan? No value whatsoever right now. Maybe if the bat warms up….

by cdb on Jul 15, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, Duncan has limited value now.

Slow footed sluggers who maybe can rake but have little in the way of defensive value tend not to be hard to find. AAA is full of them. Unlike many of them, Duncan does have a history of success in the majors. But unlike many of them, he has had injury problems and not really performed well for quite awhile now. And his past history probably makes him a bit more expensive than a 27-year old AAA masher with limited MLB service time.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with all of that...

except the slow footed part. Duncan has at least average speed…not acceleration, but running speed.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 15, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

further...

One of my biggest hopes in the offseason was that Ankiel and/or Duncan would hit well enough early to drum up some trade value. Thinking that Mather would replace their production…not working out so well.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 15, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he hasn't it for any real power this year

his value is super low for me…two years ago maybe…but not now

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i almost gave him one

its iffy…i guess i could just see him getting traded before the other three i “untouchabled”

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who/how...

do you replace him? Pagnozzi? If you consider positional saturation, you got to consider positional desaturation. Which makes me think…I Brendan Ryan close to being on this list?

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 15, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point

we don’t have any catcher in our system…we’d have to get a ML ready catcher back to make the deal…and whats the point of making that deal

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chris Carpenter?

For fear of jinxing him I won’t say much…but he ranks 4th in MLB in opponent OPS among SP’s with over 80 innings at the break….I know he’s expensive, injury prone and getting old, but if the list is to rank how much you’d get in a trade for a player, there is no way Carp can’t be on that list…and I’d say he’d be top 5 easily.

by TheFranchise9 on Jul 15, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yea i whiffed on that one

described where i would put him below

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't put Carpenter

waaaaaaaaaaay too much of an injury risk, plus he’s old and not cheap.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 16, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The More I Think On It

We almost need 2 lists.

One is rating players with value if the other team is a “Seller,” or someone in the process of rebuilding. Unless they intend to flip them, players like Skip or Franklin or Yadi or Miller probably don’t have much value to these teams, but they would love Wallace or Jones. Albert’s value probably drops, too, as he’d likely be gone before they contend again.

On the other hand, a “buyer”—someone trying to win now—probably sees little value in Jones, but might really want Miller, Franklin, or Skip.

by tarakas on Jul 15, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 15, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea..i was looking generally at what a player would bring back in terms of value

i think albert would bring more from a buyer than colby would from a seller…and yadi would bring more from a buyer than jones would from a seller…does that make sense

if a 100 is the highest value you can get back in a trade, then yadi would be closer to 100 than jones regardless of what team is getting him

hope that makes sense…i like the idea of two different list, though i’m afraid the sellers list would become a glorified prospect list

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My untouchables are:

Pujols..of course, if we traded pujols even for an entire farm organization and all the hottest women in the town…(only interesting if it was L.A. and you’d have to count the entire metro area) I’d no longer be a Cardinal fan. I’d lose all faith in our team and give up baseball altogether.

Anyways moving on: Colby, Wainwright, Carpenter, and Yadi would be untouchable..even if offered someone really good for them, their talent and Cardinalness makes me say keep them until retirement. I’m not yet attached to Colby on the retirement part but he has way too much promise and is cheap.

I want Carp after done pitching to take Duncan’s place as pitching coach in the future.

by ADMDrayson on Jul 15, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Teams can't trade for Shelby Miller

until next June so I don’t think he belongs on the list at all. Additionally, I’d say that Jones and Motte should be above Mortensen and Boggs.

by chuckb on Jul 15, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yea i mentioned that

i wouldn’t be mad if he weren’t on there…but a year from now he will be on this list no doubt

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm always going to rate the value of a starter over a reliever

if motte had a good slider, i’d put him in the top 5

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller isn't even signed yet, is he?

or is that even an issue?

Cardinal fanatic since '82

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 15, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no he's not

i mentioned that but i am assuming we will sign him eventually…we better at least

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea

right after i posted i realize i had forgotten about carpenter alltogether

and i forgot ludwick to obviously…i thought about cardinals outfielders and all i thought of was the three lefties, not sure how i forgot luddy

I’d put carp at #6 in the list and luddy somewhere in the 4-7 range…carp’s contract and injury concerns bring his value down…plus he’s on the wrong side of 30…luddy really does have a lot of value, but is about to start getting pretty expensive

still won’t put loshe on hear…no trade clause means another team would have to do something to sweeten it for him, which brings his value down…and i’m not sure he’s really that much below market value

mcclellan’s walk rate and FIP are kinda scary…but he does have some value…i’d be ok with him getting an HM

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 15, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well apparently the Phils

just signed Pedro. So I would say the likelihood of us getting Halladay may have increased just a little bit. Maybe some of this value will be leaving pretty soon.

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Jul 15, 2009 10:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

they continue to claim,

time and again, that this will have no effect on their bid for halladay. if you believe the phillies organization, that is.

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Jul 16, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I assumed

that they were either hanging the Halladay thing out there to make Pedro cheaper or Pedro to make it seem like they didn’t really need Halladay. But that might have just been me hoping for Halladay in a Cards uni.

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Jul 16, 2009 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Pedro signing has minimal effect...

on the Phil’s likelihood of going after Halladay. Pedro is at best a #4 starter, and even with him the Phil’s are short on starting pitching. I didn’t see the $ on the deal…I’m guessing $2.5M or less.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jul 16, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i heard 1 mil

might turn into a really prescient signing

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 16, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, 1 mil, with another 1.5 mil in incentives reported on BTM

"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 16, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, he's starting out on the DL!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jul 16, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DL stint allows rehab starts

instead of sending him to FLA to play with the recently drafted class of rookies. Then again, this could be the Phillies Matt Clement experiment.

by ubeddie on Jul 16, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also find it interesting

Only 5 of the top 10 are currently playing in St. Louis. Everybody else is down on the farm. Is this a good thing, or simply a reflection of the fact that farm guys have higher trade value because they are low cost and controlled for several years?

by JWO on Jul 17, 2009 8:30 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

more the latter was my thinking

even if a player is just slightly above average, being cost-controlled and young makes his value soar above other players IMHO

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 17, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Start posting about the Cardinals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small
2010 Hot Stove Post #1: CHONE hitter projections

Recent FanPosts

Avatar_small
How to EASILY make tables for Fanposts
Arch_small
Number 15
Small
Some thoughts on Holliday (and potential replacements)
Small
Ok let me try this again...
Knights-09_small
Disenchanted Blue Jays Fan Looking For A New Team
Painterlance_small
The Holliday Dilemma (Rocks Fan Perpsective)
375830-r1-025-11_011_small
Anybody read Bob Gibson's new book yet?
Flanders_small
Yadi2first
Small
40 Man Question..

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Jack_benny_small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bender1_small azruavatar

Adam1_small chuckb

Kid-a-bear_small the red baron