The All Star Game: This time, jokes about it counting are almost quaint
by DanUpBaby on Jul 14, 2009 4:01 AM EDT
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PrintIn one sense, Albert Pujols managed to please nobody in his stint at the Home Run Derby. He didn't win it, and he also intentionally messed with his swing in order to hit more home runs. But I enjoyed it—he lost in an interesting way, and heroics undertaken in the course of making it to the second round are still heroics, and come with the requisite sigh of relief and standing ovation. (Also, I have to say that it's much more fun in person, although I've heard people say just the opposite. Watching the flight of the ball without the inevitable camera issues gives you a real understanding of the scope of these home runs, which, even in our brave post-McGwire/Sosa era, are enormous. I get bored, like everybody else, with the third hour of HRD coverage on TV, but there's something bracing about being there.)
The one observation I took from the derby is this: It is awesome, in the causing-awe sense, to think that Albert Pujols, who currently leads the league in home runs, can take a swing that is more powerful than the one he uses in-game. When he started lifting his front leg and immediately sent one into the back of the stands in center it was like that moment in The Princess Bride where Inigo Montoya and Westley both reveal they've been fighting left-handed.
Tonight: The National League goes for their first victory, if I'm hearing a very confident John Kruk predict the AL win correctly, in a hundred thousand years.
Really, what's there to say about the All Star game? It's an exhibition, and its tie to reality is more arbitrary than an it-was-all-a-dream ending, but it's just viscerally exciting to see a lineup begin H. Ramirez, Utley, Pujols. The game itself isn't what I appreciate about the all star game, though; it's the way it begins the mythologizing process.
When I was a kid I was a basketball fan first, and, just before the internet would have made it a matter of a few minutes' Googling, I dove into the history nearly as much as I did the regular season. Michael Jordan was the best, but he was also my personal connection to the lineage of generational icons that had come before him, who I read about in stingily paragraphed books for kids—the faceless stars of the Boston Celtics through Mikan and Chamberlain and Larry-and-Magic all led to this one guy who I could see humiliate Bryon Russell with my own two eyes. Somewhere, at this very moment, some similarly obsessive-compulsive eight year-old is reciting this same list with Shaq and LeBron added to the end.
And part of that came from All Star Weekend, which, for my money, is still the best of the major sports' all star events. I wore out all of the VHS tapes they'd sell me, but my favorites recounted the dunk contests, in which my heroes were made into Regular People Just Like You. I'll never forget it: the solemn-voiced announcer would intone about Spud Webb or Dominique Wilkins, and in the meantime the other players would push each other around with the athlete's all-purpose good-natured-shrug and film the dunks with their own cameras. It's ridiculous, but as an elementary schooler, collecting these guys' replica jerseys, that was my favorite part.
So it was good to see that happening today; Ryan Franklin sat at the end of the bench, accosting his daughters with his beard, Hated Ryan Braun (I'm sorry, guys, but I just can't hate anybody who looks that much like Buster Keaton) met Fielder at the dugout and hung out with his kid...
I worry a lot that today's all stars, with expansion and steroids and the diffuseness of our collective attentions, won't have the same larger than life position in childhood sports fandom that they did when I forced the issue with NBA Superstars Vol. One. But luckily I've read enough Bill James to know that's one of those old-ballplayers-never-die complaints that every generation forces on the next one. As long as new baseball fans get the All Star game, as long as it's still exciting to see all these regional heroes come together in a big crossover episode and act simultaneously like regular people and superhuman sports-playing machines and machings, it'll be worth it.
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Wow
Considering I got my first name (Keaton) from him, I cant believe I’ve never noticed the resemblance between Braun and Buster Keaton.
P.S.
I still hate RB
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
I still hate RB
Seems a little harsh. I realise he can be overly verbose and long-winded, and only does one blog per week, but I like him…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'm pretty sure Felonius was joking
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 14, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Notise realise spelled with the S.
Nice one Felonius.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Well
Felonius is British, so it’s natural for him. Even though you’d think his name should be Felonious.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
He's just into the Latin
I’ve done a bit of Latin in my time… but I can control it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i always assumed
it was a t monk reference. but how that i see that spelling, i have no idea
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It is an old poker alias
but I do like jazz/blues music a lot (not Thelonius in particular but I like him a lot). It struck me as a kinda cool pun when I came up with it years ago, felony/theft/poker thing really. I spelt it felonius (instead of felonious) after Mr Monk.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
but
he spelled his name “thelonious”
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
hmmm you're right...
must’ve been some other clever reason, I guess. British spelling, there :-)
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It's Latin dude
I tried to help you out up there. You took the name from Pope Felonius the IV who reigned from 645-657 AD and had started his religious life in a monastery founded by St. Benedict, hence the “monk.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
still love RB
eliminate in 2nd half. NL sucks… but has much more potential
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:13 AM EDT reply actions
He must have long eyelashes or something like that. I've noticed that too.
There is just something weird about his face. I could see lots and lots of teenage girls thinking he’s gorgeous. To his credit, he’s clearly prettier than Buster Keaton.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Ryan Braun as bishounen?
I just threw up in my mouth.
We’re not saying he’s in Twilight, are we?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
but could Braun survive the front side of a house falling down around him...
and really why shouldn’t he try?
Also, Pineiro gets the MLB eyelashes award, although the mustache counters the overall effect.
He does have weird eyes.
The Cubs fan that came over to chat when we were playing the Brewers said that they call Braun “Crazy Eyes”. I can definitely see why!
they're like a bug's eyes.
it’s so creepy.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Apert syndrome
(see google)
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, he has a disorder?
for some reason now i feel chastised. my bad.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
No he doesn't.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
oh, he has a disorder
maybe not that one, but he definitely has something wrong with him
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
the offspring bonding in the background
was … neat. In the ‘if these kids go into baseball, they’ll be BFF’ kind of way. Like looking at our 2019 draft class.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Kurkjian and that Phillips guy downtown right now
If anyone wants to have a word with them.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and now M+M're quoting Bernie
Greeeaat.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Phillips booed
hahaha. He was right until he said the Cubs might win the division by 4-5 games.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i went to school with a guy named
Fernando mentoya…and a guy named Nii. by then end of the yr im sure they were tired of Lines from the respective movies that their names remind me of..
Go into the forest and get a shruberry..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
I'll be at the game tonight
in the Red Bird Club. Before the game I will be at the landing to witness “baseball heaven,” and to catch the parade (presented by Chevy). I am more excited about the hoopla surrounding the event than the game itself, but I think that it will be a good time!
If you hear a girl screaming when Pujols comes out, that’s me.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
Are you actually a girl?
Or do you just scream like one when you see Pujols?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I am actually a girl...
weird, but I think there might be a few of us on here…
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's weird at all
As a matter of fact, I embrace the opposite sex and I’d like to re-iterate my long standing opposition to segregation.
by sdrone on Jul 14, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Drone, I think the vast majority of us thoroughly enjoy embracing the opposite sex.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
handsy bunch, aren't we
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
coming from "the pain guy"
that’s a cryptic and somewhat scary comment ;)
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
hahaha
can’t wait to try this out at the bar.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Thanks for the free promotion of 'Baseball Heaven,' tca...
now tell me this…did our clever kazoo handouts sell you on it or the various print and radio ads and event listings?
I once shot a man just to see him die...then I got distracted and missed it.
Princess Bride Reference=Rec
really, i think the only times i rec are when a princess bride reference is thrown out
The fact that he lifted his leg more than usual at one point but didn’t pull the trigger gave me time to prepare myself for the massive blast that ensued…my wife kept saying that he was barely hitting them out…i had to explain to her that hitting them to center field is different than pulling them down the line
i finally got her to look at the distances ESPN was giving to show that hitting a shot into Big Mac land is great, but hitting a shot 20 rows deep into left-center is greater
Having said all that, Fielder hit one of the longest homeruns i have ever seen last night…and i know hamilton hit some further last year, but the one prince hit into the tunnel in right just seemed longer because it never occurred to me that a ball could be hit there
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Same here
A very nice post, with my thoughts echoing Dan’s sentiments…
But I definitely had the full smile and an audible “Heh” when thinking of Montoya and Westley changing hands.
Well done!
by soil_illini on Jul 14, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
damn
I was gonna go downtown to catch Mike and Mike but didn’t. Now Gibby is gonna be there.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
listened to them this morning
steve phillips is still a tool
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 14, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Gibby
When Mike of Mike & Mike asked him what he thinks of “all of the armor guys wear up to bat these days,” Gibby said: “Oh I could break it.”
And I don’t doubt him at all.
amen
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
My favorite quote was about guys who used to crowd the plate against him
“and would wind up getting themselves hit.”
by Ray Lankford on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
He's used that one forever
and I still chuckle every time that I hear it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I remember an interview once
with some dude that was part of a charity event that Gibby pitched in. This was many years after he retired too. The guy said that Gibby threw him three high “Seeya Laters” and he went and sat down. He said he never so happy to strike out in his life.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
the fear of Gibby in McCarver
That’s a great sound bite.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Quick Question:
How long has the Home Run Derby been featured as part of the All-Star Game?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh well hell
The best home runs of Cardinals / St. Louis / Albert are just scattered all over the SportsCenter runs. The best I got where they’re all together was BBTN.
Stupid ratings bait.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and who else is pissed off that Albert's defense is being downplayed again?
[raises hand]
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I know he's great defensively pretty much wherever he's played, but
hes a transcendent offensive player. Great doesn’t even begin to describe his ability with a bat in his hand. Yeah, he’s the best defensive 1b in the league, but he’s going to wind up being the best hitter the game has seen since Babe Ruth.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
indeed
It’s just ridiculous that Albert has worked so hard to be a complete ballplayer, and no one acknowledges it.
In other words, the casual fan thinks Albert = Ryan Howard.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
ESPN just ran a video article about why Pujols was the Perfect player
And they did go over his defense also
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
balanced coverage, shocking
Thanks. Link or was it on the tube?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
this is great
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.
Is this a FanShot yet?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And it was Jim Palmer with that quote...
not some nobody. Not some one year wonder. Not some 1-3 time All-Star. A Hall-of-Fame Pitcher.
ewww not ESPN
as above. My mistake not attributing correctly. The MLA police will get me.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I don't think it's being downplayed...it just doesn't get ratings
Timmy K’s article at the WWL.com yesterday had both baserunning and defense factored into it as well as Jim Palmer saying he’d “walk him every time” or some such crap. This quote alone should get Jim Palmer thrown out of the HOF — I thought HOF’s were supposed to compete with the best, not put them on first base?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Last I checked, the object of the game was to win.
And I’m pretty sure that pitching to Albert is not a very good way to win a game.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
All I am saying is this.
If the #4 hitter is basically crap (which ours has been most of the year), then I would put Albert on base and take my chances with some dude hitting .220 that strikes out in 1/2 his ab’s.
Now, if Luddy continues to hit the ball, then I would change my tune.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Um
as chuck b pointed out in his article, if the #4 hitter is a replacement level hitter, then walking Albert Pujols every single time is still a losing proposition because you’re giving the other team a free baserunner.
In fact, you’re better off pitching to him most of the time because he’ll make an out nearly half the time, even at his superstar level, and you stay out of big innings — if he does get a hit, only 1/6 of those are going to be home runs, the others will have him on base somewhere and you facing the replacement level cleanup hitter — that’s not a whole lot worse than just walking him and you have the possibility of getting him out.
All I’m saying is that pitching around him does a disservice to your team nearly all of the time.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
That article was well done
but for most of the year, the Cardinals have been the exception to the rule. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure walking albert has resulted in the better outcome(for the pitcher) more times than the lesser. I wonder if the occasional 2,3, or 4 run homer will skew numbers and hide the numerous strikeouts, GIDP’s, weak popups, ect.
Hopefully Ludwick keeps on pace for 30+ hrs and makes the point mute.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
I like to think of the point
as losing it’s ability to speak, thus becoming mute
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Moot is correct
but I’ve always thought that mute also makes some (strictly objective) sense too, even though it’s not a recognised phrase…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Go re-read the analysis for a minute
Chuck used the stats from the players for this year in his analysis, and then compared those wOBA numbers with the analysis from The Book, and came up with exactly two scenarios where it’s a sure win for the other team to walk Pujols:
- Runners on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs in the inning – 3.3 % gain for the other team.
- Runner on 2nd and two outs – 0.4% gain for the other team.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
In other words
It really doesn’t matter if Luddy is above replacement level or not, it still doesn’t make sense to walk Albert Pujols unless those two situations are presented.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I somewhat understand the sentiment
and hate when other teams walk him, I just don’t completely buy into it. Some of it might be because a lot of the things like wOBA are either over my head or I have no interest in or both. Most of it is because I grew up playing the game and there are so many factors involved that simply can’t be measured. I don’t know how many of you guys played above little league, and I’m not saying you didn’t, but it’s just something that has to be experienced.
Most pitchers, whether it works out or not, give themselves a better chance for success if they aren’t terrified of the pitcher they are facing
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
There are a lot of things that work
at the high school and even college levels that don’t work at the major league level. You can beat teams in high school simply by out executing them when bunting guys over, making routine outs, hitting cut-off men, and taking walks. The margin for error of those things becomes so small at the big league level that those things, while important, won’t allow a team with a large disparity in talent to overcome that disparity simply by execution.
In my home state there’s a high school coach that will nearly always, ALWAYS bunt a runner from first over to second if there’s nobody out. It’s like clockwork. He’s also won 500 some games, 5 or 6 state titles, and is in the coaching Hall of Fame. His teams simply execute their gameplan better than the other team, giving them a decided edge at the high school level.
Back to the question at hand: at the big league level, it simply doesn’t make sense to put guys on base that you don’t have to put there most of the time, regardless of how good that hitter is and how poor the hitters behind him, because all of those hitters are major league hitters, the guys that other teams used to pitch around back in high school. Sure, some hitters are better than others, just like at every level, but considering the disparity in talent is so small, it makes no sense to give the other team a small advantage that doesn’t improve your win expectancy, no matter how your pitcher “feels” about it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
FWIW
Here’s a link to the aforementioned post by chuck b.
I quote:
The only scenario when it definitely makes sense to walk even an Albert Pujols-like hitter (setting aside any platoon splits) is if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs in the inning. A walk in this circumstance favors the pitching team by 3.3% (notice there’s no potential for a double play here). The effect is somewhat different in the bottom of the ninth, as you might expect, but our discussion here deals with every other inning scenario.
The Book reaches the conclusion that it almost never makes sense to intentionally walk a hitter, even Pujols, w/ no one out. With one out, a team should never intentionally walk a hitter if doing so advances the lead runner. With 2 out, the walk only makes sense to Pujols if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd.
That’s statistical analysis that flies in the face of Jim Palmer’s “gut-instinct”.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
yah
I goofed that up. However, I do wonder how the analysis would go with three replacement level hitters behind Albert. How often would it be advantageous then? I still think it’s going to be a lot smaller than a lot of people would intuitively think.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
And I-forget-who-authored-it article actually went through the numbers and not "intuition" coming up with a different conclusion
Not afraid to nitpick
i had a comment in the above thread
where I looked at every time in which albert was walked, evaluated it against criteria for “should he have been walked”, and then evaluated the impact. IBB’ing Pujols at times where the book says not to IBB him cost other teams a ton of runs more than expected, at the time of the article.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
I had a bet with a friend of mine back in 2003
when Bonds was killing the league that walking him as much as pitchers did was not advantageous to their team. I wasn’t into sabermetrics then, so I tracked the number of times he was walked, noted time, score, and situation of each walk, and then looked at how many times the Giants scored a run in the innings that Bonds was walked. The result was something like 50 more runs over the course of the second half of the season that would have been expected had Bonds been allowed to hit in those situations. Sabermetrically, the analysis wasn’t correct, but I did win the bet, lol.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
can you really rely on "expected" runs?
I expected Ankiel and Duncan not to suck this bad.
I’m not trying to pick a fight, respect your vast research and analysis, and don’t discredit it. I also have more Ludwick & Co Outs after walks than Runs after walks. perhaps they just burn a deeper memory?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
of course you have more 4, 5, 6 batter outs after walks than runs.
do you know of any batters with a .500+ OBP?
Albert doesn’t have a .500+ OBP either; so, if he had been pitched to in those circumstances, he would have made more outs than run-scoring plays. you’re making the wrong comparison.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
my method was simple
I extrapolated out the inning based on the probability of two things happening the likelihood of those things occurring (his OBP was a sick .520 at the time):
- 48% of the time Bonds makes an out.
- 52% of the time he reaches base.
Like I said, it’s not exactly going to pass a sabercentric science test, but it goes to show how stupid it really is to pitch around on player that much, regardless of how many other hitters are behind him. I know it’s not “intuitive”, but some statistical findings aren’t intuitive. This is one of those findings.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
the point is
even with ankiel and duncan suckign so bad, we’ve scored more runs than we would have with league average guys behind him in the lineup.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
Goold on SC
sorry about the spam. SC makes me froth. (Yet I keep watching it…)
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm not much for the Derby or the All-Star game
But I would pay good money to watch Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun take a long walk off the Cliffs of Insanity, shirts untucked.
by meat on Jul 14, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
lol!
I have started calling it the “Mostly All-Star and Ryan Braun Game”
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
All-Stars and the Deputy
Gold star for the deputy.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Why the deputy meme?
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
After Braun's comments, Brewers' GM Doug Melvin was quoted as saying:
“I’ll be glad to have Ryan help if he wants to. I’ll give him a badge and he can be my deputy.”
by santiagofish on Jul 14, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Now I have "I Shot the Sherriff" in my head
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
You could do much worse
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
lol...
I thought it might be like, Cause he is the mayor of douchebagville!
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
links
Braun: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/49985032.html
Melvin: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/50090917.html
Braun says he’s sowwy: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/50182477.html
Kiss and make up: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/50141392.html
Of course the Milwaukee press then speculated on Braun going cold right after:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/50684547.html
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Braun on Pujols (source: MLB.com "Pujols at center of All-Star festivities")
Yeah," said Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun, “and it should be. It’s his city. He’s done so much for the city. I know what a great person he is. I know what he’s done off the field as well. So it should be. It should be a celebration of how great he is as a player and as a person. He’s a great ambassador for Major League Baseball. He’s the best player we have in our game today, and he deserves all the accolades and all the attention and success he’s received.”
Yes, Cardinals fans — that’s Ryan Braun, object of so much of your scorn. Braun, the slugging star of the rival Brewers, is hitting cleanup for the National League team on Tuesday night. He’s a legitimately great hitter in his own right. But even he marvels at Pujols.
“Playing this game every day, recognizing how difficult it is to have success and be consistent, when you look at the numbers that he’s put up, it’s incredible,” Braun said.
I agree, but you forgot part of the article:
"Playing this game every day, recognizing how difficult it is to have success and be consistent, when you look at the numbers that he’s put up, it’s incredible," Braun said, prior to untucking and then removing his shirt.
he is a great hitter
no question. and i’m sure he’s got some stuff figured out. broken clock, etc
he’s still a douche
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 14, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thankfully Braun is starting
Because if he were a reserve, there would be a chance he faces Papelbon with the game on the line. Hundreds of thousands could die from douchebag toxicity watching that scene play out.
by olddomination on Jul 14, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 10 recs
Douchebag toxicity - nice one!
I actually LOLed.
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 14, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with cardgirl
That was nice and very appropriate….oughta show that to my fiance(she’s a lifelong Red Sox fan).
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way...Pujols says he will take a PEDtest every day...
and if he is caught, will pay all the money he has ever made to the Cards.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cardinals/2009-07-12-pujols-cover_N.htm
What’s insane is there are still people who don’t believe he is clean…
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
What’s insane is there are still people who don’t believe he is clean…
It isn’t that all insane. He is a major league baseball player
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah...
each day/month/season that passes I become more confident that he’s clean, but I still dread someday finding out he isn’t.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 14, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Also a link to this on Fark.com
Intersting to see some of the comments.
by Toledo_STL_fanatic on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
yea, I actually found it through Fark.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that's insane
I mean, look at the numbers he puts up.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
The numbers are consistant.
He didn’t just spike one day. The numbers are proof that he IS clean.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh...
Rather naive way of looking at things considering all the players that have tested positive. I won’t feel safe® in my assumption that Albert is clean until the rest of those names from 2003 leak.
That said, I hope Albert is clean. I would actually be stunned if he wasn’t. Anyone else, I’d be like, “Of course he’s using PEDs.” Even though he’s been really outspoken about this, and even though he’s a man of faith, and even though he seems like an upstanding citizen, he’s still human. And human beings lie, they cheat, they steal.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I have no idea why there's
a® thing next to the word “safe.” Clearly I did something.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Yep.
did it again. I was trying to safe/safer, but instead I registered a word.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I thought maybe you were trademarking the word "safe"
for you own personal use…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
You're only safe if you're Safe(r).
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
/slaps forehead
Doesn’t work in the subject line.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The internet is out to get you.
Clearly you need to do penance of some sort. I suggest opening a Twitter account, speaking in lolcat for the next couple of days, and making some generous internet-dollar donations to VEB.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'm in ur thred. lol @ ur comentz
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
This is what happens when we let women in our blogs.
The whole thing falls apart.
I kid Spants. I kid.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
(making Eckstreem voodoo doll)
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I was wondering what that stabbing pain in my abdomen was.
Apparently it isn’t the Mexican food I ate last night.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
NOES!
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jul 14, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No Code isn't just a surprisingly okay Pearl Jam record.
Anything that requires code can’t be used in the subject line. No bold, italics, links, symbols, anything. It’s one of the strangest things about the SBN software. I would love to be able to just link to something in the subject line, rather than have to do it in the body, when I probably don’t have anything to say.
Overflow up, subject line, link.
Rather than
Overflow up, subject line
Sorry for the bitching, but it’s something that pisses me off on a semi-regular basis.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jul 14, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I *hate* not being able to use italics in the subject line.
See there? It would have been really nice to use italics there, but SBN with their stupid idiotic rules, man…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
you just skipped
the subject line, right?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
bingo.
write your message in the body, bold it, and link it. it looks the same.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
This is a test.
is this the same space as between the subject line and the main body? i suspect it is bigger.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
yeah, so no.
i was just curious.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed and been annoyed by that.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
this has annoyed me as well.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
+1
Cubs fan who hates Pujols here, his numbers are great but they aren’t SOO great that they could be tainted. If you look at the list of all-time single season slugging leaders, Pujols falls short of the roid fested 90s/00s players and is in line with players like Frank Thomas and Jim Thome.
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 14, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
they are easily
so great that they could be tainted. but when you look a his track record, he’s either been juicing for decades or he’s just something special
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
pujols virtue is his consistency. his comps for consistent high level performance
are people like jimmie foxx and joe dimaggio. single season slugging records are not what makes one person great or not.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
lets trade Pujols this off season, then
Foxx fell off. I’m convinced that Joe D is just alright if he didn’t play in NYC
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not sure if you're convinced you're funny or if you're a troll.
if it’s the first, you’re not. if it’s the second, please stop.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
sorry, just felt egged on a lot today
by people who don’t seem to read well/don’t get a joke
will stop
and by sorry, not. glad some people could get something. Just saying, hard to realize greatness until you see it in retrospect. Then, its too late sometimes. But still stand by saying that “this guy is good, here are the numbers” as opposed to “here are the numbers, this guy is good”. Pujols is obviously in the latter. Sorry to offend. If anything, I want him in STL as a person, even if he stops hitting tomorrow.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
it's an insanity based on not watching him play
rant ahoy. Scouts passed over him because he was overweight. And a weight lifting magazine actually criticized him for doing a regimen that maximizes power over the speed needed for a ballplayer.
He’s a big boned kid who worked hard, keeps working hard, and if he were on steroids he’d hit the ball like Prince Veg, instead of his self-avowed “line drive hitter with powah.” What’s more, I don’t think he’s had an injury that would invite PEDs to speed recovery.
If they’re only looking at the numbers, yeah, there’ll be questions. But it seems like Cards fans are the only ones who are patient enough to watch Albert’s utterly consistent career and do a simple eye-check.
If we’re all wrong about him, well, the first person Albert’s lying to would be himself.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Uhhh
Albert being fat and not a legendary hitter in JUCO—-then being plopped into the MLB as a ready made HOFer a year later as a lean hitting machine is evidence that he didn’t use? Not so much.
If I had to pick I’d say he didn’t use, and I’d venture to say he’s definitely not using now. That said I wouldn’t be shocked if it came out that he had….and you know what, I don’t care.
Not afraid to nitpick
Jut for the record
he hit better than .500 his Jr year in high school and walked 55 times in 88 PAs his Senior year and made All State both years. In JuCo he hit .461 with 22 hrs.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Yes
The key with Albert is that he could always hit but was a chunky, roly poly, bad body with no position. Then after one year in the minors he comes into spring training built like a brick wall. I’m not saying he did use, just that there are physical signs that many could attribute to something fishy.
/dodges shoes and rocks…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, this has always been a lingering
doubt in my mind. however, i trust albert. i’ve been burned so many times before on this, but i trust albert.
plus, after that SI article a while back i’d be heartbroken if it ever came out he used.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
I think we've all
really bought into “he was a fat kid” logic for why he wasn’t drafted, but I don’t think he was really that fat:
I do wish he’d bring back the mustache, though:
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ahaha, who said they'd have nightmares if Albert had a stache?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
After he's done being the face of the All Star game
I’m hoping he joins the mustache brigade
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
He doesn't look fat to me, either.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I think it was more about the potential of him to get fat.
He has a body type that probably requires a lot of work to keep the pounds off.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
that's the window for me too
Especially his ultimatum that he’s making it this year or he’s not going to play baseball at all.
However, despite his being married and with a step-child at the time, he was also really young. Males of his age haven’t developed their OMS* yet. Cards fans watched him gain that here in StL, so we’re witness to whether that arc was natural or not.
* VEB term: Old Man Strength
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Honestly
I may be in the minority here, but his ultimatum seems a little fishy. Rafael Palmeiro came out and said he’d never taken anything ever, period (paraphrase). Then he got busted later. I hope Albert’s not using, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he were.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
the ultimatum, I gotta say, makes perfect sense
When none of the scouts are biting and there’s a new wife and special-needs child at home. Not exactly a stable career path. It may just have been a tale grown in the telling.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
And
There’s a lot of rumors saying coaches would walk him out of protest thinking he was older. Aside from that, I couldn’t possibly care less about HS stats, they are meaningless. Andrew McCutchen hit .709 his senior season with 16 bombs in 55 ABs.
And it’s pretty much the same in JUCO, entire teams have hit .430 and one Kade Johnson put up 38 bombs…
Not afraid to nitpick
If you don't care about how he hit
why did you mention it?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Ha
I care about his hitting ability. I don’t care that he hit .500. That means nothing. I care about the talent, and HS/JUCO stats do not measure that.
Not afraid to nitpick
To each their own
but his stats impress me. I think he wasn’t drafted b/c of the age thing, the jeans modeling, and the fact that front offices (esp ten years ago) made lots and lots of mistakes.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Charlie Cutler hit .622 in HS
Point being you can pull out scores of guys with HS stats that are outrageous and JUCO stats like that.
Not afraid to nitpick
no, not was I was saying
I’m saying if people were wondering where his power was coming from, there is evidence in his body type that he’s got the bones to build muscle naturally. Unclear on my part. Besides, when was he lean? Point being, it’s not like he matured into an adult weight and size that was stick-like then ballooned overnight. It’s the same reason I’d count out Prince — the possibility goes down when you account for his body type and his genes.
…if you don’t care, why be upset about it?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Well
#1. I don’t care if he used in ‘99 or whatever. It’s not like I’m actively rooting for him to get caught, quite the opposite, but it just wasn’t a big deal then. I’d be 100x more pissed off that the sportswriters would crucify him when it’d be ridiculous.
#2. It would be naive to think with 100% certainty that he bulked all natural. Did anyone think A-Rod went from stick to monster? Anyone think Alex Sanchez has the body type of a ‘roider? Again I would wager that he didn’t, but to rule out the possibility is just naive. I know it’s nitpicking, but that’s my signature…
Not afraid to nitpick
different circumstances, but...
A-Rod and a number of others allegedly used to get back from injuries. As I said, I don’t think (correct me if I’m off) that Albert’s had any injuries that would invite PEDs. Other than, say, something in the realm of a cortisone shot for the pain.
The other possibility is using to bulk up, which is what I’m addressing specifically. Probably totally unclearly.
Everything else about Albert’s game — his baseball IQ and his reflexes are observable skills, and in some cases scientifically documented. I mean, people have to have a prompt to say these things besides “oh, everybody did it”. That’s the only thing I can think of: Albert’s power.
It would be fantastic to be able to see how someone = same age/gender/body type/diet and physical activity bulks up, just to compare. Except finding a body builder who doesn’t use might be even more difficult.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Again
This guy juiced. This guy too. Larry Friggin Bigbie. Body type isn’t a very good explanation.
That and Pujols has gone from this to this. Note: this is absolutely 0 evidence that he did juice, in fact that’s exactly what happens when people weight lift, I’m just pointing out that if it did come out that he had used, sportswriters would use that confirmation bias as evidence and no one would call them on it.
And as dumb as Roger Clemens is, he’s actually right on how impossible it is to prove a negative. But that’s my point, it can’t be proved he didn’t.
Not afraid to nitpick
I see
a guy whose uni has gotten baggier and maybe put on 10 lbs of muscle. It’s not a Bondsian transformation.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
His forearms are bigger
as is his core, but it looks like he went from being 21 years old to 29 years old.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
His forearms
were already big, too. It’s not like he had slender, delicate wrists and suddenly has Uggla-arms. He looks like a dude who works out. A lot.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Don't mean to pile on to you joker
but the two pictures are at different angles, so that skews it a bit too. It’s difficult to come up with comparisons using freely available pictures like that and those aren’t too bad. You can definitely tell he’s bigger and stronger-looking, but it’s not as if he’s the Incredible Hulk or something. Probably just enough to arouse suspicion in this day and age, which of course was your point.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
That is exactly the point
People went back and saw the A-Rod “changes” and confirmation biased their asses off. Did anyone see Manny Ramirez bulk up? Alex Sanchez? The point of the Pujols comparison was that it looks like he juiced way more than Larry Bigbie…when we KNOW that Bigbie did. Body type comparisons are flawed to the core unless it is Bondsian.
Not afraid to nitpick
Now I don't know what the point was in the first place!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Yup.
The whole steroid issue has become very difficult to have a rational discussion about because of all the things that have been brought up in this thread, and more. I can barely even be bothered to talk about it anymore with people.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
speaking of weight, did ryan howard lose . . . oh, i don't know
like FIFTY POUNDS?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Yeah, he's definitely juicing.
:)
On a more serious note, I have a similar body type to Pujols. I have to run a lot to keep my wieght under 200 lbs and I am 6 feet tall.
The advantage of this body type, however, is that muscle is pretty easy to put on. I have gone from a max bench press of 220 in December to 280 right now, and that is just by using weights at home with no personal trainer. I have cut my body fat percentage in half since then too.
What I am trying to say is pretty simple. Pujols is not and never was long and lanky like ARod or Bonds. He is stout and stocky. Strength is probably pretty easy for him to gain, but so is weight.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
word
That’s all I’m saying. There could be a number of other reasons why people say he’s doing steroids, but the most common prompt — a power surge — seems the flimsiest to me… and the product of too little information about Albert presented to the casual fan, until fairly recently.
I’m only addressing the crap people spout when they have no evidence and are pissed off that he’s just gone yard and stolen their team’s lead.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and there's something else I intended to add
but it’s gotten busy and it’s slipped my mind. fail.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Just because he says he's clean
…and seems willing to put his ass on the line doesn’t mean he is. There is no test for HGH, and I remember reading that part of the reason Balco existed was because they were able make designer drugs that were ahead of the league’s tests.
I’m not saying that Albert is dirty, in fact I don’t believe that at all, it’s just that he’s a ML baseball player. Fair or not, I don’t think he or any other one can be trusted right now. Personally I’ve stopped caring…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
That part about him maybe leaving just gave me chills
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, I never thought in a million years that A Rod was on PEDS – he was such a great player from the get go; Manny? No-he looked like such an unfit slob out there. Sammy Sosa vehemently denied it. So did that Palmiero guy. So did Roger Clemens, and on and on. There was a time I SO looked forward to A Rod surpassing Bonds in home runs. Now I hope he doesn’t One tainted record is more than enough for me.
I take Pujols at his word – and hope that he is telling the truth. I’m telling you, I would be crushed, absolutely crushed if he did use PEDs. It’s too bad that every player gets questioned, fairly or unfairly, but that’s where we’re at.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
For what it's worth
Sammy Sosa publicly said he’d take a PED test anytime anywhere and then one day Rick Reilly showed up with a cup and Sammy flipped out on him. So…….don’t always take these grand statements of innocence by professional athletes (any of them) for anything more than what they are.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
Maybe Sosa just flipped out
because of Reilly’s douchiness.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
In Sosa's defense...
…if some reporter came up to me and confronted me asked me to take a piss test while I was partly naked and prepping/winding down from a game (I don’t remember which in this case) I’d be pretty pissed. I’m also sure that Reilly was completely kind about it too…wait, no probably not.
I’m glad you and i see eye to eye (hey that rhymed!) on Rick Reilly. Personally, I think he’s a self-righteous and pretentious twit who is also a hack writer. Why he has such appeal, I have no idea. He basically has two can stories: The Indignant “I Can’t BELIEVE This!”® and The This is So Sad and Uplifting and Inspirational®, and in both he works in forced attempts at humor in the form of the weird simile.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad to
see people are getting use of my® mistake.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Well in this case...
I’m doing it to denote that Reilly basically has two story template and because he’s so famous they might as well be copyrighted.
I really had no intention of Chitown-ing you, spants. However your struggles with the copyright auto-format were somewhat amusing.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
A couple things I thought interesting that don't have to do with PEDs...
First, about how careful he is to protect his image and not leave himself open to tabloid treatment:
“If we’re in a hotel and a woman gets on the elevator by herself, I’ll wait for the next one,” Pujols says. "People have their agenda. You have to be careful who you can trust.
“It’s the same thing with pictures. I’ll have my picture taken on the field, but not off the field. Nowadays with photo technology, you can do so many things.”
Imagine feeling as though you need to be that careful. I’m not saying he does need to be that careful, but he clearly worries that much about people taking advantage of him.
This part I just love:
“I see teams take their jerseys out when the game is over,” he says. “To me, that’s not professional. I don’t care what you do when you get off the field, but don’t do it on the field. You don’t want kids to see negative things.”
Heh heh heh…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Brewers' bellies have traumatized many a young child
Please donate to the Fund for Untucking Cure.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
prince fielder's belly is pretty traumatizing
even while tucked in. It’s like he has a baby shoggoth under there, wriggling, every time he swings.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I had to Wikipedia that
Not much Lovecraft to speak of in my geek resume. You have won the thread as far as I’m concerned if we’re talking about creepy imagery.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
you gotta have some cthulu in your repertoire
You never know when you need a giant tentacle monster.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY
Is this thing not rec’d all to the curved edge of space and back?
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jul 14, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
afraid of the Elder things
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
that really needs a...
for kids on the end.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 14, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
AHA
I was trying to think of a verb. Clearly my mistake.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The only problem I have with that statement is
That in the true letter of the law Pujols doesn’t wear his uni correctly either during the game. Not that I am defending what the Brewers do, the only time I like them is when they beat the Cubs, we still own those bitches since the 82 WS. But don’t bust somebody when you’re not doin it true to form yourself.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
What part does he wear incorrectly?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'm gonna
guess he hates the baggy pants. Albert’s pants have gotten baggier at the calf/shoe area over the years. But other than thatt – and Albert’s far from the worst – he’s quite professional in his uniform.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwt2Z3llAr0
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He hasn't been doing
that as much this year. Welley has been.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
The correct way to wear a uni is with your pants rolled and tucked into stirrup socks
Not dragging the ground. I didn’t say that I hated it, but if you’re going to go after somebody else over what they do AFTER a win, then make sure you have your ducks in a row first. Something about throwing rocks in glass houses.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
tradition if nothing else
the players started getting lazy about it 10 years ago or so. Boog’s is the true traditional look. I think that the trend of today looks tacky, but tacky is kind of the norm anymore for a whole of things. I don’t really care what they do, it won’t change if I do care. I’m just saying that you don’t say stuff like that over something innocuous like pulling their jerseys out after a win. It is After the game, and not they are mooning the losing team. Nor are they taking their shirts off and running laps like around the stadium. Like I said, you don’t throw rocks in glass houses, sooner or later something will come back to haunt you.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
So you admit there isn't a correct way, then?
(I agree that Ryan’s style looks better, I just disagree any player should be told how to wear his pants.)
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
I will admit that there is no uniform code
but Albert was taking about respecting the uniform. It’s a matter of perspective.
From my perspective even Albert doesn’t wear it in a traditional style, but nobody’s gonna call him on it
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
there may not be a code
but i think its a proper judge of character
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
whoa whoa whoa
long pants shows lack of character? What definition of the word character are you looking to use?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
the lack of character that doesn't appreciate the awesomeness
of stirrups, and shortpants
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
see his comment at bottom of page.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
The true
traditional look is to have collared shirts, short-brimmed hats, and really baggy pants tucked into socks.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Aaaaaah the Cy Young look
Boy those woulda been fun to wear to…full wool unis..makes sweat run down my crack to just think about.
I really don’t type stuff to get everybody into a full blown discussion…it just happens that way.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll forward your message to Pujols
to get off your lawn. players should wear their uniforms however makes them feel comfortable. With all due resepect, and I am saying “with all due respect”, get over it
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
This whole thing is blown way outta proportion
How this got turned into a three-headed monster is beyond me….to reiterate…..I don’t care one way or the other
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is that the correct way though?
I grew up playing in the 80’s and early 90’s…and this is what we wore:
If a ML baseball player wants to wear big baggy pants, then they can. I personally don’t care…they’re paid to play baseball and however they do that, within the general guidelines of baseball rules of course, is fine with me. These guys are individuals and until someone passes an NFL style uniform law they can do whatever they want.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way that look is totally ridiculous looking back on it
I love the neither up nor down pants. The zero belt was always odd too.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You would be correct on that
Those were also those nasty double-knit polyester uniforms that made ya sweat like a whore in church on Easter Sunday and didn’t soak up any of it. We wore this style in Babe Ruth league but wore Boog’s style in Little League.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhhh, those were the days...
We must have played in about the same era. I remember those style uni’s fondly. In H.S., we had uni’s that looked like the early 80’s Pirates – bright yellow shirts, black pants, yellow really-high cut stirrups. Nice.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 14, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember the mosquitoes well
we also had those stupid little caps that looked like a beany with a bill
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We always had the cheap, mesh-backed trucker's caps
with screen-printed letters on the front that peeled off after about 2 games.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 14, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We had those in LL
We had the other in Babe Ruth and HS
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
is this right?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
ah, boog.
why don’t more players wear high socks?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
the Tigers' throwback unis looked awesome
I was at the Arch to check out the little exhibit of theirs, and man, wool unis! Crazy.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He needs to go to a slightly
higher cut stirrup.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
what about his wrist bands?
it doesn’t seem very traditional to absorb your elbow sweat.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
Kind of apples and oranges though
The pants thing has to do with convention. I understand and even sympathize with what you’re saying even if I don’t agree. But once upon a time baseball players didn’t wear gloves. The stirrups weren’t always there either. There used to be ridiculous collars on baseball uniforms. That is just part of the times and has more to do with comfort than anything else. The shirt-untucking is celebration, they only do it when they win. I really don’t see this as a “glass houses” matter.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's only a "glass houses" matter in that if he does it too much over little things
Somebody is gonna throw it back at him over something big. You call it karma if you want to. He already had to eat his words over Ryan Howard winning the MVP award in a year that they didn’t make the playoffs and then Albert did it last year.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
(sigh)
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Don't sigh spants
I’ll shut up now
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I think I slightly agree with you, in that Albert sometimes strikes me as someone who gets a little too indignant about some things.
The Howard-MVP thing is interesting to me because there are so many facets to it, and it’s all so silly. I’m not talking about you here, I’m just venting about that issue in general. People gave him so much flack for it, but there are scores of sportswriters who say the exact same thing. And since when do players’ opinions of who should get the MVP award have anything to do with who deserves it? Albert has the right to be wrong about the playoff thing. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t accept it in ’08. He clearly deserved it in ’08 and I think he also deserved it in ’06, and the fact that he was wrong about the playoffs argument (in my opinion) has nothing to do with either case. Anyway, rant over, sorry.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i think it was best summed by my high-fashion low baseball friend who asked
“why do some players get to wear their pants high, and why do some have to wear their pants low”
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
the shirt untucking isn't a "style"
It’s a (deliberate) act.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
exactly
it isn’t like DD is allowed to play the whole game with that shirt untucked
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I should stop picturing the aerodynamics of that.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Oh Albert
On the untucking thing I’m right there with you until…“You don’t want kids to see negative things.”
How does jersey untucking compare to f-bombs on the field, dipping, ball scratching, PED users, a manager with a DUI, occasional brawls, anything on MTV (which just makes you a moron), Cubs fans, a stadium named after beer, and so on and so forth…
But yeah, untucking your jersey ruins American youth…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that part is silly. I'm not going to attach moral weight to whether or not your jersey is tucked in or something.
I just like the thinly veiled reference to a certain divisional rival.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't think he likes them much
He almost got into with their whole damn dugout IIRC.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
he better study up
The Brewers are good at brawlin’.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Hey, Albert has some serious beef behind him too.
Who in the world would really want to fight LaRue? He’s got old-man strength, plus he’s a cowboy. He wrestles cattle in the offseason for fun, so putting Fielder on the ground should come second-nature.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
must rec for mental picture alone
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
screwed that up. I meant Jim Dwyer
wasn’t he fat?
And what about Terry Pendleton? I don’t recall him being slim. And I think he was trying to wear the baggy pants.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Steer-tying him
with the straps from his shin guards would be hilarious.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
have you ever tried wrestling with someone
built like fielder. you cant get a grip on them unless you have long arms like and ape. They just roll you off of them.
larue vs counsell would be awesome
counsell apparently does MMA in the off-season, and Larue is Larue.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
might've just been an English issue
He couldn’t find a polite way to say ‘douchey’.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I believe the stadium
..was named after a person, not a beer. I will acknowledge the link between morons and MTV.
by Toledo_STL_fanatic on Jul 14, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
More significantly
I like the Brewers slam about the shirts. Hahah.
Enjoy the game...
Hope anyone who is lucky enough to be at the game tonight enjoys it …..I had the pleasure of being in attendence the last time St.Louis held the All Star game when I was a kid in 1966 and it was such a blast to see all those great players and not only that….but to see AL players and uniforms in person! ….that was something you ONLY saw on the NBC game of the week, or if you were lucky, as I was the next two years, in the World Series ! The main thing I remember from that game in 1966 …Brooks Robinson and the HEAT…it was one of those 106 degree humid and hot day games in STL…..but man?….it was fun.. Enjoy St. Louis
I'm convinced
that had Pujols just done the leg kick the whole time, he wins the derby and does a better job of preserving his swing, since he would never do that in a game.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
OT
i find it hard to accept, but I agreed with Al re Molina’s lack of running. He has been doing that a lot lately. It also gives (maybe) some insight into the Rolen-TLR spat that Rolen did not get the same carte blanche that TLR clearly gives some players. Divisive thing for the insecure and totalitarian.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
the doghouse is a pretty deep hole
Al, imo, was still unprofessional as a team broadcaster, because they could have easily waited for another break in the game and show a replay and calmly talk about it. Instead he exploded before the dust had settled, on what was a high point for the Cards.
But man, TLR’s tunnel-vision is intense. I think he just doesn’t do well verbally, instead evaluates physical actions. “Communication” doesn’t seem to be a priority in his press conferences. It surprises me that he pursued law. Maybe so he could have a language he could speak…? Boy, that can’t end well for a lot of ballplayers.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
sum up: I love Yadi, but Al was right.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Surprised there isn't a fanpost about this
It’s been all the rage on STL sports radio, or it was yesterday.
I still haven’t actually HEARD Al’s on-air reaction, but his side of the argument seems sound to me.
+1...haven't heard it either
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Al got all wound up...
…because on a weak pop up Molina just sort of trotted out of the box. Al seems to think every single baseball player should always sprint, b/c that’s what men did when men were men and not sissy weaklings, or something. He wasn’t exactly wrong, but Al is Al.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't say anything like that.
I’m all for anybody that really doesn’t like Al, but he makes an ass out of himself often enough on his own without our help.
He said repeatedly that it was inexcusable for Molina to walk halfway down the line holding his bat in his hand when the ball was in the air. He also said that he didn’t expect him to sprint, but he could display a modicum of effort.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
yep.
It was confused because the guys in the truck took a while to show the actual shot of Yadi’s stroll. The attention was pretty much on the Cubs’ play, or lack thereof.
“Exploded” would be a good way to put it.
I’d love to hear from someone who was there, to be honest.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Um...
Perhaps I’ve not made myself clear, so I’ll rephrase…
Al got wound up because on a weak pop up Molina just sort of trotted out the box…this was meant to be a statement of fact.
Al seems to think…no he didn’t say it in that context, he just seems to imply it whenever he decries a perceived lack of hustle and backs that up with some kind anecdote about the good ole days. This was meant to be more of a commentary on Al’s genera broadcasting point-of-view.
Rereading my OP, I see that wasn’t made particularly clear. On a related note, I suck…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
much ado about nothing....
Isn’t this something teamates will address in “kangaroo court” if they feel it is worthy? Maybe Yadi realize the funds are low for the end of the year party?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 14, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to sit in on a session of that.
I bet it would kick ass.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
minutes from a court.....
Questioner: "Yadi, why didn’t you run out that pop-fly, man?
Yadi: "You try running to first after taking 8 pitches in the dirt….. the padding, they help…. but it don’t protect “everthing”….. ya know?…..
Questioner: “Yadi, why didn’t you drop the bat?”
Yadi: “Too much pine tar I guess….. sticks like crazy”
Judge: (puts beer down first)…$500 fines…. next?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 14, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I dunno if that'd happen
from what I understand, Yadi is more or less the Defacto captain of the team in the clubhouse (along with Albert), I’m pretty sure he’d be too influential for the other guys to get on his back, unless he did something REALLY bad.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha, Ha, Al. See you in Kansas City.
That’s where the last FSN guy that upset LaRussa ended up.
Bah-Bye, Al!
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
oh, well if it means al loses his job on fsnmw,
i think i can support he and tony getting in a row.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Pain in my head but
Al was ri…ri…ri…righ….ok, you get the idea.
Molina didn’t make the effort to get close to 1B, which could have led to a dropped pop-up double play, which is what the Cubs did (drop the pop-up).
Al has been pointing out Molina’s complete lack of hustle on anything not hit completely out of the infield. Molina is slow as dirt but I think he really plays that up. Some of his ‘infield hits’ should actually end up being hits, but he seemingly doesn’t try at all.
I love Yadi and ultimately don’t care if he runs hard but I will say it’s very frustrating from time to time to see him literally walking to 1B.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
As I said on this topic yesterday
It was the way that he called him out on the air and his subsequent ramblings in the media about it that have pissed me off. If he’s right then he doesn’t need to keep justifying it to everybody, he should just shut up and leave it alone. It’s like Tony is hurting his pride by calling him out for the way he chastised a player on national TV. Get over it Al, just go do your job. Tony nearly always defends players from media criticism, especially those who are leaders in his clubhouse, and Yadi is one of those. I’m not saying Molina was right in his actions, he wasn’t, but to make this a three day media circus is ridiculous.
His ragging on Rasmus all season has been incomprehensible to most of us and I think a lot of us here feel that this is just an extension of that. The kid might win Rookie of the Year for fuck’s sake, but to Al he’s still just a rookie.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Al / Rasmus
Al was being harsh on Colby at the start of the year, but he’s been calling for Rasmus to be in the starting line-up everyday for a while — usually, starting with one of his typical, “In my mind…”
It is time for this to be put to rest
As a general rule, I don’t like to be in Al’s corner. I don’t think he’s been all that out of line in his observation here. As you mention, Al has been harsher on Rasmus many more times, and in most cases for less IMO. Yet this fairly accurate critique on Yadi is what raises Tony’s ire.
It is definitely time to let it go though, for both of them. Unfortunately they both, in my view, have a bit of havetogetthelastword in them so there is potential this is going to get pretty stupid. Tony has been berating the press corps pretty consistently over the years. If I know Al, and I think I do, I think he views himself a little above the scribes with pen and paper. I’m sure this hurts his ego that he gets the same treatment, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him take advantage of any chances to work in some petty jabs where he can.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 14, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
well nobody asked tony
About Rasmus lack of hustle. Tony wouldn’t have known Al said anything if a reported didn’t ask him about it later.
It was a caller
on his KTRS Sunday show. And Tony didn’t know what play Al was talking about, he just didn’t think Al should rip on Molina period.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Maybe Tony's
just sick of Al like the rest of us, and this is how he’s finally expressing it.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
understandable.
I’m not TLR’s biggest fan, but Al is a grade-A tool.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
didn't Tony also say that this wasn't the first time AL had aripped a player ?
I actually read it as Tony having a certain rookie’s back.
Gah, now I can’t find the quote!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Missed that
If so, kudos to him. Either way though this has already been made to be a bigger deal than it probably should, and I’d hate for it to drag out any longer.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 14, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Albert does the same thing
Probably my first ever post on this blog was a mini-rant about the etiquette of booing. I said that I booed the crap out of Albert one time in person because he dogged it down to first base. Anthony Reyes’ debut up in Milwaukee, late in the game Pujols hits a double play grounder on the hit-and-run. Taguchi slides hard into 2B and fully takes out the second baseman. The fielder recovers from the play and still has time to throw out Albert at first because Pujols barely jogged down the line.
I think the world of Albert and Yadier is pretty high on my list of people that need to exempted from random, reactionary criticism. But both of them need to completely run out groundballs and plays of the above mentioned nature. I’m not saying running full-tilt, just a solid pace down the line.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
I get all the years confused and mixed together
but what year was it that Pujols had a bum leg for awhile and was told not to run hard?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
yeah, the hammy
Let’s not even get into whether Yadier is hiding an injury. That’s a -100 for Yadi in that case.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Al / Molina
There was a play recently where somebody barrelled into Molina at the plate (I think it was one of the Twins), and Al said a couple times that Molina “punched” the guy in the subsequet pile-up. It looked to me like Yadi more just leaned/pushed on the guy, so somehow it didn’t surprise me when Al made a big deal about his running on the pop-up.
The issue here
is really about Yadi’s musculature. He has spent his whole life in the crouch. Because of his game calling abilities being superior to LaRue, he isn’t getting much rest. He’s also starting to show the signs of muscle cramping and gathering that are the precursors to “ham and groin” pulls. If he were to press to his highest speed every time, he would be on crutches, all for the 1/10 weird play. Yadi is one of the guys that is carrying the ball club and Tony is very aware of this and the risks. He is pooped, and it will only get worse now that Lohse is back. Another preferred customer.
ASG bonuses
Huh, Google spit this out in an unrelated search.
All Star Game bonuses for each St. Louis player: $50,000.
(Seems to be the mode… either that or $25K.)
All Star players who were paid more than that:
125K
Roy Halladay
100K
Carlos Beltran
Torii Hunter
Francisco Rodriguez
Johan Santana
75K
Ted Lilly
Jason Marquis
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think each Cardinal player has that written in their contract actually
$50,000 bonus for making the All-Star Game. Doesn’t Albert donate his to charity every year too? I was thinking I heard that somewhere.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
yep, that's what the article says
Dunno about the donation, but that sounds like Albert.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
They paid Jason Marquis that much?!!!!
I wish they had given him that to stay home
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions
The Rox have the Cubs to thank for that one
That’s the provision in the contract that he signed with them.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
so this is all the Cubbies' fault. much is made clear.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
everything is.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Do the Rockies have to honor that obligation if
the Cubbies are in bankruptcy?
On a related note, I think I am going to bankrupt until Monday or Tuesday. I really just don’t feel like paying my bills this week. Oh I have enough money to pay them but I just don’t want to.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
MLBTraderumors.com says Penny might be available
His FIP isn’t anything to write home about, but he was worth 2 wins over the first half of the season playing in the toughest division in baseball
Tyler Greene straight up too much?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
umm i just looked at my proposal...and even i think its too much
Allen Craig or steve hill….really i don’t know…what would be too much…I just want Wellenmeyer gone
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
my sarcasm/irony meter might be broken.
i thought the tyler greene for brad penny straight up trade thing was tongue in cheek.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
at first i was serious
then i realized how stupid that was
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
can i trade them our broken bryan anderson? i'd totally do that.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I just can't get into the all star festivities
To me it is just an exhibition. I’d agree it is better than any of the other all star games, but that’s a low bar to cross for me. All I can think about during these things is how I can’t wait for the real games in a few days. I know the players need a little time off, but I sure don’t!
I’m probably a little weird that way, but the prevailing mood for me is one of impatience.
Thats kind of how I normally feel
but it being in Saint Louis this year, I’ve been pretty geeked about it.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Rain Out Potential
The weather map looks ugly around game time tonight. Not saying it’s going to happen, but if it does- who gets home field advantage in the world series if there’s a rain-out? Would they replay the game tomorrow? Would Bud Selig’s head explode trying to figure it out?
SF CARDS FAN
it's automatically a tie. and the world series gets played in milwaukee. all seven games.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He'd overreact in some way I'm sure
He’s probably end up moving the All-Star game to Hawaii and the entire playoffs to Australia or something. No more rainouts, dammit!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
it doesn't rain in siberia does it?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
A comment from the original post, and how great I think Albert Pujols is
I don’t think he’s that great of a player. Now, here is my defense:
I realize that there is every argument in the world that he is the greatest hitter ever. But, by the time he came in the league, I had about 15 years of baseball watching and obsession behind me, so to see a rookie come up who hits .300 and hits 30something homers, well, seen it a few times. And when he repeats it a few times, well, seen that too. Its only in retrospect that I’m now realizing what he has done in the last 8 or 9 years. But, as far as the mythical stature of All-Stars goes, somehow, because it was my formative years, I still think that Mattingly, Ripkin, Boggs, McGwire, and those newfangled kids, like Griffey, Biggio, Bagwell, Thomas, that they’re slightly less than that first group. And that Thome and Manny are overrated, and that Griffey really is the future. And these new kids like Albert, Vlad, and whoever are just good players doing their thing. I remain to be convinced about guys like Hanley, the Uptons, anybody on the left side of the Mets infield, and punks like Longoria (Alvin Davis was a kickass rookie once upon a time, also).
Age bias. But I’m starting to appreciate Albert.
you realize that Albert is one of the top 5 players of all time, right?
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm speachless.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I'm also having spelling issues. Ugh.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I'm peachless
which kinda sucks :-(
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure who's going to jump in on this one first
But I’ll just link to his Baseball-Reference page:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml
Look at his comparables at the bottom.
Or his HOF scores.
www.mpgillusion.com
And
His all time rankings through age 28 (despite fewer PAs than others on the count stats):
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_28_bat.shtml
www.mpgillusion.com
The numbers don't seem real
like it’s not possible someone is this consistently good.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
You appreciate Don Mattingly more than Albert?
holy fucking shit®
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
haha®
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
like i was trying to say
there is age bias. yes, I can read the numbers, and have watched the game, and quantitatively get around this. but impressionable youth get caught up on the heroes at their time of inception, and have a hard time letting go. this from a man trying to explain the Felix Jose debacle with somebody this weekend.
and I will always prefer shortpants and stirrups. It just looks better.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you still use a walkman
and tight roll your jeans?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I agree
about the stirrups, but it’s not a freaking character issue. Ty Cobb wore stirrups and they didn’t do jack to enhance his character.
As far as the Pujols stuff goes, I hope you realize what you’re witnessing before it’s too late.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
wade boggs? really? wade fricking boggs?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
WTF® spants, you registered “haha”? I use that one every day! Ugh!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
DAMN YOU for registering WTF!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
That didn't work.
AGAIN. I am having Major Issues® with formatting.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Damn You® for registering WTF®!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
DFA Duncan!® DFA Ankiel!® DFA Thurston!®
Ha, ha, ha!! just wait for the next game thread! I’ll be rich, RICH I tell you!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Oh yeah?
the truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark — macmanus®
Good luck ever posting on here again!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
that's already copyrighted.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Your mom is already copyrighted.®
booyah
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
stop copyrighting my mom!
also, i patented your mom!(p)
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
patent fail.
i need a good attorney.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Mattingly and Jackie Robinson have similar OPS+ numbers
and Jackie didn’t have to play against black people in the majors. nobody doubted him in the Hall of Fame.
I also think that you have to take the extremes of any analysis, and work back to reasonable levels. I consider this an extreme.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Check again
There was a significant influx of black players during Jackie’s career.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
Mattingly versus Robinson
Two reasons that the same ops+ needs to be interpreted carefully:
1) Robinson played most of his games at more demanding fielding positions (mostly 2B, also 3B, and OF); he played less than 20% at 1B. Mattingly played over 90% of his games at 1B.
2) Robinson started in the major leagues at the age of 28 and played through 37. Mattingly played from ages 21 to 34. Despite this difference in ages, Robinson has a higher ops+ than Mattingly (132 vs 127) over his career. And, if you look at the overlapping ages (28-34), there is no comparison: Mattingly’s ops+ averages to about 100 (and ranges from 81 to 133); Robinson’s averages to about 130 (and ranges from 111 to 154).
www.mpgillusion.com
Mattingly was limited by his left-handedness
I don’t like to limit players by the way they were born on how natural handed they were. And yet Mattingly overcame this, and did a few innings on the infield outside of 1st.
Jackie was probably a Schumaker like fill in. Pujols has shown he can play all over the field, largely because he’s right-handed. That’s just not fair to the lefties of the world.
I’m working on a racial segregation list of the majors for Spants. But didn’t some teams wait until almost the 60’s to break that barrier?
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you just compare
Jackie Robinson to Skip Schumaker?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
ok, just checked the numbers on that
apparently JR was better.
glad i checked the numbers on that, and not relied on intuition/feelings/anecdotes
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
wow.
i have a few intuitive jackie robinson comps, and none of them are skippy.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Luis Alicea?
Lou Beaudourx or however that is spelled?
I came up with Schu – forced to move around in his career. Maybe Pete Rose, if we accept he shouldn’t have played those last few years, even if it does take into account durability/douchiness.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
ignoring his defensive shifting, i'd pull ichiro off the top of my head.
high average, a lot of steals, modest power, perennial all-star.
luis alicea has a lifetime .260 average. not a good comp.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
steals don't win games
neither does average. we all know that walks and doubles win games. look up your OPS crap
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
okay . . . not sure why you're so hostile.
you weren’t asking of similar value, just a similar player.
but since you asked:
alicea lifetime ops – .715
jackie lifetime ops – .883
ichiro career ops so far – .810
i was probably giving jackie less credit than i should have with the ichiro comp. but picking non-all stars to compare to jackie is deeply unfair. he wasn’t some nobody 4th outfielder-utility guy. he was, in his own right, a terrific player, regardless of the color of his skin. he lead the league twice in SB, once in BA, and once in OBP.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
ops+, please
lets normalize for eras and ballparks
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
88 to 132 then.
I’m fairly certain you’re either not serious or high, though.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Ask and you shall receive
You can stop being a dick any time though, that would be great.
- Alicea (lifetime) = 88 OPS+
- Robinson (lifetime) = 132 OPS+
- Ichiro (lifetime) = 118 OPS+
It’s actually even more pronounced when you do that, and would be even more so if you took into account position played and the average player playing that position in that era. Robinson was the best second and third baseman offensively of his era.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
fuck off if you're gonna be an inflammatory douche
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
strong words
just trying to get some discussion on players who i intuitively thought were good/sucked, and those that weren’t.
Pujols = intuitively alright/numbers say God
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i think the problem here
is that albert is more than “intuitively alright,” at least for most people.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
i'm not
judge me. i don’t buy in quickly
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
you're not more than intuitively alright?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
you're not most people?
i figured that out. =)
no big deal if you have a different opinion, as indefensible as most of us think it is. you’re entitled to it. but it seems you’ve been a little snippy and snooty during this discussion. anyway, hopefully you can realize what you’re watching before apu is gone.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
as i said before, i'm starting to
just easier to see in retrospect than its happening. wondering how often that has happened in my baseball watching career.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
discussion is great
your tone during the discussing is belittling and just plain annoying
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
sorry about that
Again, I just wanted to spur something about how players did as opposed to how we thought they did, especially since we can now look back on these things.
I didn’t grow up in the Pujols age of greatness. He seems pretty good, the numbers seem to back this up. Wondering how much this is the first or last case we’ll see of this.
I don’t want to be belittled, either, for watching a few games.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
So
wouldn’t Mattingly have faced more right handed pitchers than left handed pitchers, thus giving him an innate advantage at the plate over someone like Robinson?
Also, comparing Jackie Robinson and Skip Schumaker is utterly ridiculous even by your standards. The man stole home NINETEEN times in his career!!!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i give that to old-timey windups
like how SB numbers have gone down in the last 20 years or so, since pitchers finally realized to slide-step/not wind up with a runner on 3rd
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
and Mattingly played in the TLR White Sox era
so I’m sure he faced his fair share of left handed relievers
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What does that have to do with Robinson facing more righties than lefties?
Or Mattingly facing more righties than lefties?
Um, nothing.
If you want to argue with yourself, please reply to your own comments.
Just for fun though:
- In 1286 plate appearances, Robinson faced left handed pitching in only 146 of them (11%). He hit .354/.417/.562/.978 in those PA’s.
- In 7721 career PA’s, Mattingly faced RHP in 4993 of them (65%). He hit .314/.366/.484/.850 in those PA’s.
I’d reckon to say that if 70% of Jackie Robinson’s PA’s had come against lefties, he’s likely to have had a much better career.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
small sample size for Robinson
I’d like to hear a final decision in this forum as to what a large enough sample size is
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
depends
on what you’re trying to determine
again. stop trying to provoke people
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
how
is being left handed a disadvantage for baseball players
mechanics aside, if pujols were a lefty, he’d be an even better hitter just for the splits
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Trying to explain anything to this guy
is futile.
As my buddy Bug says:
“Don’t argue with stupid people, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
trying
to sift through the condescending douchebaggery to find some meaning in this
it’s not working. care to elaborate?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
He's on a bad trip
We’re just trying to talk him down. Don’t freak him out!
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 14, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That's my quote
Not really, but still …
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
I don't need your list.
I’m very aware of how to put someone or something into historical perspective. You just want to bicker.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
wait...
you’re serious?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
similar batters through 28 who have been active in my lifetime
Ken Griffey Jr.
Juan Gonzalez
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
While Juan is on that list:
Here’s his age 28 comps:
1. Jimmie Foxx (870) *
2. Hank Aaron (863) *
3. Frank Robinson (857) *
4. Lou Gehrig (855) *
5. Ken Griffey (853)
6. Mickey Mantle (829) *
7. Joe DiMaggio (818) *
8. Juan Gonzalez (805)
9. Mel Ott (805) *
10. Hal Trosky (795)
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Also, should note that
Juan has an OPS+ of 135 or so; Albert is at 172 or so. They’re not comparable. Albert dominates Gonzalez by a wide margin.
Bill James points out that the best players actually have a “poor fit” when finding comparables.
This is true for Albert, who’s comps are all below 900. Gonzalez is close to 800.
www.mpgillusion.com
Also, while on steroids,
Juan Gon was a hell of a ballplayer. The fact that Albert blows him away says a lot.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
That was in my clipboard
about to be pasted. That’s some good company to be in.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 14, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
- pre segregation
- pre segregation
- pre segregation
- pre segregation
- who the hell is that? (assuming pre segregation)
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, that didn't work right
but you get the gist
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, no
I don’t.
How is Aaron pre-seg?
And his comps are some of the greatest players in the history of the sport!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Do you mean pre-desegregation?
Because Hank Aaron is black. So is Frank Robinson. So is Griffey Jr. (And Sr for that matter.)
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
i tried to list the actual numbers - formatting screwed up or something
I meant Gehrig, Ott, Dimaggio, Foxx, and Trosky.
Half of them are from a different era. That’s what I meant.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
There are two
distinct eras in terms of the type of game: dead ball era and live ball era. Then, there is the matter of segregation, which further complicates things, obviously.
All the players on that list are from the live ball era, and several of them are post-desegregation. So, basically, I have no idea what you’re talking about, other than pre-expatcardfan and post-expatcardfan.
Albert is a freaking baseball god. If you’re blind to that b/c of a bunch of nonsense, then so be it.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I don't think that you can count pre-seg numbers all that well
I don’t count them, personally.
And I still judge people based on the length of their pants.
And if you’re going to count those HOF people from pre-seg, you have to integrate the segregated players from that era (Negro League numbers)
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You're mixing arguments.
And for what? So, compare Albert to all your modern-day heroes. How does he compare?
I think you’re just looking to argue.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the point i wanted to make, and obviously i screwed this up
is that today’s all stars don’t have the mythic status of the guys of my childhood, regardless of ability or results. to me, not matter what happens, in my warped little world, Don Mattingly is the most dangerous hitter out there, Sam Horn is going to be a great DH, and that the future of the game’s pitching is Ben McDonald.
Albert just probably won’t be mythic to me, no matter what arguments you try to make. Just better than everybody else.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That's because you're not a child.
You’re still unreasonable, though. This is how Jim Rice ended up in the HoF. I hope you don’t have a vote.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Sandy Koufax was worthless in his early 30's
He somehow got in
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
(slaps forehead)
Anyone else got anything?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
good advice.
i quit.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
Heh. This reminds me. You want mythic?
Cubs games are often in the afternoon on Friday. I’m usually work at a particular site where there are quite a few Cubs fans, and we sometimes listen to the game.
There was some situation with the game close in whatever inning. Guy hitting 2nd grounds out. They’re all “HAHA now we just need 1 out!”
Me: “Pujols is up.”
Them: “Fu$$ you.”
Now that’s mythic. Opposing fans are scared of him even being up to bat.
see, this is what i'm talking about
like i believe, people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamppost – for support, not illumination
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
so you are one of the crowd who think that stats are not accurate
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
its all about the questions you start asking
I think Dale Murphy might be a good comp to Albert this year, and obviously Albert is blowing him out of the water so far. But, Murphy played on crap teams, was a good guy, had little lineup support. Same as Albert so far. What are the numbers on the chain effect of having Rolen – Edmonds-Pujols-Renteria (whatever order TLR decided to put them in that day) on overall numbers?
I don’t trust how most statistics are tallied, though. I just like tying them back to a source to CMA
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
well
just realize that you are watching one of the best players in baseball history next time you watch him. I don’t know what else to say to convince you that he is far better than any of the other players you mentioned. or maybe you are just not as into baseball as you were in the past? OPS+ is a solid stat, not sure why you are suspicious of it
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Albert won the MVP last year
Cesar Izturis and Adam Kennedy were regulars on that team, not to mention the amount of playing time Chris Duncan received. Chain effect be damned.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Three of Albert's best seasons
have come since 2004, including this season. You realize that the current Cardinal team would be dead last in the NL in runs scored if it weren’t for Albert Pujols? Currently we’re 6th in runs scored and Albert leads the league with 100 runs created. If you replace Pujols with a league average 1B’s runs created the Cardinals will have scored fewer runs than the Padres, who have an anemic offense and a great first baseman.
Are you getting a clue yet?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Comparing Dale Murphy
to Albert Pujols is at best a fruitless exercise and at worst a comparison worthy of electroshock therapy.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
You don't have to
but your opinion is not fact, so stop presenting it like it is.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
other people's opinions aren't fact, either
all comps are based on what somebody thinks the right comp set is. all stats are based in opinion. some people’s are just better and more widely accepted than others’
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
"all stats are based in opinion"
is, in my opinion, the dumbest thing I have ever read.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Homer J. Simpson will back me up, I think
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You're now relying
on a yellow cartoon to back up your theses? This can only end in tears.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i think this is all sarcasm.
it has to be.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
thank you
When all of us are trying to explain to our kids how good Pujols was, and how the best hitter in their day is leading the league for the last 5 years in SBLTG (I have no idea what that stands for – if I did, Bill James would give me a director position), and we’re looking back and possibly thinking that Pujols has just OK SBLTG numbers, but damn did he hit the ball hard and made good plays in the field, we could tell them that.
Just like Don Mattingly did for me.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that Don Mattingly
and Albert Pujols simply aren’t comparable players at all. They just aren’t, regardless of what you “remember” their performances don’t stack up.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Let us all stop feeding the troll.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
We're not saying they are
I guess I could define the word “fact” for you, but then you’d probably tell me that “facts” are only in the eye of the beholder or some such shit.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
hell yeah i am
watch a game on gameday. what is a changeup/vs 2-seamer/vs curve some days on that thing? and LD%? i hate that statistic. if a guy hits the ball hard all the time, then he hits the thing hard. Pujols hits the thing hard all the time, it seems like. The numbers back this up. Boom. Analysis complete. He can hit.
Just doesn’t seem to hit the ball as impressively as little me thought Steve Balboni hit the ball sometimes.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
ld/fb/gb%
are good for calculating luck and deviations from career norms
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Dude
I saw Steve Balboni play — he was no Albert Pujols. If you put them side-by-side against the same pitchers you’d get a far different result. Your memory is failing you.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
this--
I think Dale Murphy might be a good comp to Albert this year, and obviously Albert is blowing him out of the water so far.
—does not make sense.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
We're forced to do that since
the statistics of the players you mentioned do not support your argument.
by sdrone on Jul 14, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's not mythic to you
because you’re not looking back at his career yet, you’re looking at it while he’s still playing. Does Frank Thomas have mythic status for you because he had 5 great years in the mid-90’s? Because Frank Thomas was a much more dangerous hitter than Don Mattingly ever was in his prime, and I hate Frank Thomas.
If you were 110 years old and had witnessed Babe Ruth play, Ruth wouldn’t have “mythic” status to you because you had seen him play in person instead of crappy film reel footage and cruddy photos.
You’re talking about a matter of perception, which makes your “mythic” statement wrong when you look at it from a comparable perspective to other eras, including the current one.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
bingo
you hit the point also. All-Stars today just aren’t as cool to me as they used to be. I’m just happy that Wainwright and Carp aren’t pitching today, since STL has no chance of winning today.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ozzie Smith was way worse in OPS than Alan Trammell
one is mythic in my book one isn’t.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
DEFENSE
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Of course STL can't win today
They don’t play today, it’s the All Star Game! They start playing again this weekend.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
You seem to be in need of help
in the explanation of the obvious, judging by this entire thread you started. I’m just trying to do my part.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i am so confused.
i’m trying to form lucid arguments, but i didn’t ever think i’d have to argue this point, so my brain broke.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
yeah,
but griffey is a hall-of-famer and juan was a pretty good ball-player.
you said—
I don’t think he’s that great of a player.
—which is, in my mind, an indefensible argument. do you perhaps mean “he isn’t as great as people seem to think he is”? that would be a more arguable point. i still disagree with you.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
also,
he’s in the freaking top 10 in almost every offensive category through the first nine seasons. he’s had one of the very best first 9 seasons of any player in the history baseball ever.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
"so to see a rookie come up who hits .300 and hits 30something homers, well, seen it a few times. "
Not from the players you mentioned, you haven’t.
closest is Mattingly, but he misses the 30 HR mark. And that’s not counting his first year or 2 when he didn’t play a full season – but also didn’t hit .300.
So, what your saying is,
It’s not necessarily about how good these players are or were, but how you feel about them?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 14, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that's what he is going for here
which is basically his opinion is not based on reality
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think maybe
it is more a statement about the fantasy of youth. Even the greatest player in real life doesn’t match up to what you think is possible in those first few formative years.
I used to collect all my Wally Joyner, Daryl Strawberry, Doc Gooden, Jose Canseco, Will Clark……. cards thinking they were certainly destined for the HOF. Of course, I was too young to know better. I like it better the way it is now, when I am older, though. I certainly don’t have all the answers but when I see Albert Pujols play I KNOW I am seeing one of the best in my generation. I’ve come to the conclusion that I was an idiot with a short attention span when I was a kid, like most kids are. I think maybe he’s looking back to those days in his life with a little more fondness than I do with mine.
I think, maybe, this is where he is going with all this.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 14, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
that's a good way to put it
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
that is exactly where i was going
and i grew up hating the Mets, so Straw, Gooden, and hell, even Hernandez weren’t even in the subject line.
but I’d like to see Mookie vs. Willie in some sort of fan love competition
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't hold on to your childhood memories so tightly
that you lose sight of what is going on right in front of you. Presumably, you don’t still like to watch Sesame Street, read Berenstein Bears books, and play Chutes and Ladders even though these might be some of the first shows, books, games you were exposed to. You learn to appreciate things in different ways as you get older. Why should baseball be any different?
If you can’t see Albert Pujols for what he is, then that is a shame.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 14, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
you watched Sesame Street lately?
they have Tilly and the Wall and Paul Rudd doing things. Beats Letterman some days.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Admit it
You’re just bored out of your mind today, aren’t you? That’s what this is about.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 14, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
bored, yes
but also was thinking this weekend “are the players we used to think were good as good as we thought they were/are the players we thought were awesome suck as bad as they were?”
it started with Felix Jose. Work from there.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
are the players we used to think were good as good as we thought they were/are the players we thought were awesome suck as bad as they were?"
I’ve gone cross-eyed trying to figure out how to interpret this statement.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
yeah, i meant
suck players as sucky as we thought they were
I shouldn’t even try to edit anything once I get past about 6 words. I’m not a strong reader.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes and yes
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
illiteracy is nothing to mock
i have a form of autism, but I’m trying to function
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
but looking back now on what, getting up on 9 seasons of Pujols?
Damn, he is great. And if I started watching today, I might think he’s the greatest ever. I might also think that about Adrian Gonzalez and that kid in TB who isn’t Longoria. But not saying it won’t alter your watching of the game for a long time. Like how you get so sick of hearing your dad talk about Fred Lynn, Hermon Bostock, or Amos Otis.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Fred Lynn shouldn't be diminshed like that
I don’t really want to get involved in this mess of a discussion. But Fred Lynn was a hell of a player with a career wrecked due to injuries (most caused by his relentless pursuit of the baseball, physical limitations be damned). Shortly before they announced the recent HOF voting, I stated in a FanPost that if it weren’t for the procession of DL stints, Lynn would be considered a far superior player to Jim Rice.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
I agree. differences in injuries and things shouldn't hurt things
Think Mark Fydrich
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a good example
Fydrich was doomed from the start. He was a great story & personality, but he had no legitimate shot at an extended, successful career. Bill James did a great write-up in The New Historical Abstract about pitchers with below average strikeout rates.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
didn't somebody do a write up lately that Pineiro is basically a dead-ball HOF'er based on strikeouts?
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
DanUp
did. It was an excellent essay.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Excellent essay with a good name
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 14, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Note league averages for strikeouts in the deadball era
Get the book if you have a few dollars to spare. You might learn a few things and get some perspective (I know I did).
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
guessing batters feared K's more back then
and not working counts to get on base. Adam Dunn could probably avoid striking out every season if that were the concern. Not so sure about that guy from Texas, though.
But, that was a different era – live ball/segregated. A weird time for baseball, when depressions and world wars were the norm. Actually, maybe, a decent comp for today. Not to get political.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Fred Lynn
is one of my favorite alltime ballplayers and I never even liked the Red Sox. He was outstanding in every aspect of the game. He was clutch, Jim Rice was not in particular. He could be pitched to.
I looked it up. He is better than Amos Otis or Dusty Baker or Gary Matthews
but dangerously close to Chet Lemon
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
I don’t even know what to say about this.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's most of the Posnanski article
explaining that Pujols is ALREADY great. I can’t find the original article from Sports Illustrated, but here’s what Posnanski said (which leaves out what Bill James said)
FLAGGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
don't worry
i’m getting off your lawn now
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Albert has the highest career OPS of anyone in the National League in the history of the game
You can shut the fuck up.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 18, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
World Series HFA and the All-Star Game
This is my solution for determining HFA in the World Series. It is somewhat of a compromise of a few of the methods floating around that each of them by themselves are heavily flawed.
vr, Xei
i say we go back to alternating years
with a large enough sample size, it should be fair, assuming evenly distributed coin weighting
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
F to the YI
Right now, mlb.com has live coverage of the NL taking batting practice. I think this link will do it.
I can't seem to get it to work
despite having a subscription.
However, say what you want about the junior circuit, but their insignia is way better than ours…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
ah.
got it to work now. However, it’s just two Fox douchebags talking at the moment.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Albert going off about the PED accusations
and had about 47 Jesus Christ references in this interview with Costas.
I like the NL in this one.
The Wakefield factor being the issue. He will pitch in relieve with the opposition having plenty of quality pinch hitters. That ought to be enough. I curious to see if Albert takes the single to RH option in his first at bat against Holiday. It would be a good sign.
"single to RH option?"
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
yeah
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
is it really bad form?
i seam to be the only one who doesn’t think he’s WCBW, and every time i’ve mentioned he not & said something about it, i’m not being serious or angry at anyone who says he is. i haven’t seen anyone get upset about it, has anyone else?
WCBW was banned, therefore his IP address can’t register another ID right? dan, chuck, az or red can easily clear this up by checking his info right?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Well,
not if he has a new IP address.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
one thing that we have to remember, that guy had a HUGE ego
if he were back, he wouldn’t keep quite about it
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
This guy?
Aside from WCBW mysticism, I will say this. The Home Run Derby is not just a lot like a carnival mid-way game to fleece the foolish. It iS a carnival game to fleece the foolish! The carnies are ESPN and MLB. I watched a slow pitch beast stand up at SF’s park and hit 13 out on 20 swings out. 5 in a row splashing in the bay. Any one of those guys could have hit 40 hrs in the hardball contest, just by admitting that it wasn’t about baseball and heroism. I would wager strongly on that statement. The event really needs to be done from the mound. 25 pitches…….. hit what you can….where you can. Less stress for the athletes, more ingenuity for the hitter/ pitcher team. Albert wins that contest. Batting practice warm ups before the game were never intended to be a model for a competition. Not only is it harmful, it reveals that highly paid professional athletes can be made to look just like foolish farm boys trying to impress their girls. Sad in a way.
Maybe it's just me
but isn’t Griffey the only guy to hit one off the building behind Camden Yards? That was in the Derby.
The raw power is impressive to me, I just wish they’d stick with the “raw power” guys in this contest and do away with the Joe Mauer’s of the world.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Any possibillity
that the inclusion of Mauer, along with Inge, was an attempt at handicapping the competition a little bit. Do you believe that the Money interests in baseball aren’t interested in some of these player doing more before a world audience, maybe making it harder for a team like the Twins to keep him, instead of the media market giants in NY and LA, Chicago. How about feeding him to the water walking Pujols, who the big money teams really want to be sure moves up? There is a lot of business taking place in St Louis.
i believe Inge sucks
I want to see weight classes in the HR derby, like Ichiro vs. Eckstein, Fielder vs. whoever is fat in the other league, etc.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
do i believe the contest is mostly about money? no.
also, i believe babies are found under cabbage leaves.
come on. lose the conspiracy theory. it’s a mostly pointless exercise in watching famous baseball players hit balls. the world is moved by money. if this is shocking to you, i’m sorry. if bud selig could figure out a way of making money from having albert pujols and prince fielder play donkey basketball, he would.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
No
actually I think they just take the best home run hitters in each league and ask them if they’d like to compete in the home run derby on the Monday before the All Star Game. If anyone declines or is hurt (like Ibanez has been) they just take the next guy. I also think that some guys volunteer because they like doing things for fans — like Pujols did last night when he went all out in the swing off to get into the second round.
It’s also about introducing certain guys to a national fanbase — which would include someone like Joe Mauer who plays for the small market Twins.
Dude — it’s about promoting the game. That’s what this weekend is. Bud has done what he can to ruin it by making it seem like it counts for something meaningful and has ruined the “exhibition” portion of it by doing so.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Possibly.
I just noticed that the new Players Union head is evaluating the Merits of yet another collusion suit. Ha ha! Fun and games. I’m sure the Yankees hope to sign Mauer, since they paid his salary this year anyway.
Link?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Players union news should be
an easy google. The Yankee’s revenue sharing and luxury tax money comes in real handy in Minnesota spants. Should be that much in the kitty.
Just thought you could offer a link
since you offer so many words. And I fully understand revenue sharing.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Cool
Those were just a few sentences spants? There was an undeniable collusion. Provable? Thats why they use the arbitrators. One of the most recent ones was 283 million. A health sum. Polad had a habit of just absorbing revenue sharing and luxury tax money’s as profit. Everyone assumed that the he would breakdown and put a roof on the stadium. He died. Now the fun starts.
Neat at bat between Albert and Doc. I was surprised to see it go 3/1. Doc came in on the hands for the foul ball strike but Albert was too quick. That was a rocket shot and a great play at third. He did choose the single option in the next at bat but they were playing him for it. Such is life.
everybody who ordered cable so you could watch the HRD, raise your hand.
okay. now, how are the people being fleeced by ESPN and MLB? watching it on tv is free — or at least, unless you got cable just to watch it, it doesn’t cost any more than watching a baseball game.
the fans who pay to get in give money. but they’re not being tricked. they get to watch great players trying to hit home runs, which is pretty much what they were promised. i can think of much worse things people pay money to see.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Maybe he means
they’re being fleeced because it’s not truly an athletic achievement or event. It’s a sideshow. But I think most people know that.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
well, neither is pro wrestling or nascar, but they pay good money for that.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
i
watched it on the internet for free
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Me too.
And I connected my computer to my TV. So there.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
uh-oh. did you first obtain the express, written consent of major
league baseball? i think that might have been outside the scope of their “computer-based service.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
yeah, same
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Your complaint
is noted Tom. So hey, how would you like to try this ring toss. 3 for a dollar.
I believe the competition could be about anything. This format is designed to take 3 hrs, for promotional purposes. Its sucks as a test of skill. As WC noted any softball stud could hit 40 just by having the pitcher put a 2ft ark on the pitch. If you adopted that format one yr, you would never be invited back. Hamilton’s 70yr old pitcher did that for two rounds. When in fatigue he sped up, the Hr’s stopped immediately. Even Albert last night tried to do this, using a leg kick and arching pitch. Not enough practice unfortunately.
Who said it's a test of skill?
And who cares about “beer league softball studmuffin” and how many homers he can hit? You’re missing the point entirely: People want to watch great players do anything, just like people buy US Magazine to find out what porch Lindsey Lohan passed out on last weekend. Do you go to movies like “The Hangover” because of Ed Helm’s fantastic acting chops? No, you go to laugh your ass off. It’s supposed to be a sideshow, I don’t think anyone really cares about the “skill” portion of the evening — it’s entertainment for kids.
I don’t like Joe Morgan breaking down the contest as a battle of wits and skills either — it’s stupid. I just want to see some guys hit some dingers while Erin Andrews interviews players and my neighbors kids enjoy watching their favorite players hit home runs. Is that so much to ask? All-Star weekend is built around the young fans of the game getting to see all their heroes play against each other, that’s the whole point of it. Selig “making it count” was to keep those guys interested in the game itself instead of heading to their private jet after the 3rd inning. I think this has as much to do with the whole “every player should get to play” bullshit as it does anything else. It has nothing to do with the game being an exhibition.
I’d love to spice it up with some different angles on the Derby, but then I remember that it isn’t about me, it’s about the 12 year old kid who used to watch Griffey hit balls off of buildings and how thrilling that was at the time. Stop making everything a fucking conspiracy to bilk you out of your money or your time — if you feel that way then turn off the tube and play checkers or something.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I respect that.
You should have given that talk to Albert. I could tell he wasn’t taking it seriously.
Why should he?
You just said yourself that it isn’t something to be taken seriously, that Cliff Beerleaguer in softball could hit as many home runs as these guys?
I don’t understand your point other than the fact that you’re acting like this is some secret conspiracy to keep you from doing something more productive or to sneak a barrel full of monkeys into your basement while you’re watching the Derby. Get over yourself already.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Your becoming
argumentative 4. I like the competition. All I’m saying is make it one.
Again
IT ISN’T ABOUT YOU! Get over yourself already, it’s about the kids and selling you Gatorade and Ice Cream Sandwiches.
I’m done.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Sorry
to confuse everyone. I’m just assuming Halladay isn’t an idiot. The single to right option is probably what will be offered as a gambit in their competition. Albert is a team man too except it, a gambler if he doesn’t. This is a baseball “thing”. Hope this helps, and please make the appropriate comments if you recognize that.
Got it.
It was RH instead of RF that threw me off.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Thanks Spants
I didn’t catch that. RF is what was intended.
Albert.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 14, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
watching Albert on MLB Network
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
he says it would be ok if they tested him for steroids every day
he would give back all his money if he tested positive for steroids. would not do anything as stupid as steroids
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
he says the two records that won't be broken are the 56 game hitting streak and the 73 HR by Bonds
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He's just making the moment even more special
When he breaks both of them in the same AB
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Giving Ludwick mad props right now too
after being asked how he feels about being walked all the time.
he seems very very happy
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I know right?
Man, I will be crushed if we don’t resign him.
On a related note, I was listening to the ESPN Radio STL station and someone was talking about how Halladay got a HUGE reception in the parade bringing everyone to the statium. I guess all the fans were chanting “We want Halladay, We want Halladay!” Glad to see they’re paying attention!
he's unbelievably amazing
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He's now signing
autographs for a swarm of service men and women.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I can't wait until he cures cancer during his first PA tonight!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Peace in the Middle East
on his first play to his right!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Damn,
If I had known I would have signed up yesterday. Too late, maybe next year.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 14, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
for the autographs? or the military?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
WPA for tonight
NL – 20.09
AL – 12.67
Also,
Pujols – 4.83
Top 3 in AL order – 4.38
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
WPA & Leverage Index
I hope the NL smacks around the AL pitchers in the first few innings and makes the WPA graph look like Uluru (Ayers Rock = mesa).
FanGraphs for the uninitiated
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
I will actually be pretty surprised if the NL doesn't win this year
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Trever Hoffman was added to the roster
the ensure that it doesn’t happen. If I see the “all time saves leader” in the ninth again I’m swear I’m just going to bed so I can read about the inevitable ninth inning comeback by the AL in the morning paper.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
weird
Sheryl Crow used to live right by Willie McGee and knows him well
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions
my roomate used to date a girl who looked like Willie McGee
if #51 were a blond white girl.
It didn’t last.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
what I was thinking
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
the rest of us thought WTF also
and my buddy who pointed it out was a SF fan
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
some day it will make sense, in a moment of lucidity
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
thankfully, it made sense to my roommate
who decided that dating a young, blond, female Willie McGee lookalike wasn’t in his best interests, even if she did have a good personality
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
that's pretty creepy
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
lol yeah
We need some real games to discuss here. This is getting bizarre.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 14, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Money in my bank baby
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
pregame
what time does it start?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
there's been stuff on mlb network for a while now
I think it starts at 6 on Fox?
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
nope
starts at 7
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
There's stuff going on right now.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
thanks
yah i want to see the stuff on fox but 7 seemed late since thats game time right?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
I think the
game starts at 7:00. But it won’t really start at 7:00. They have to do intros and ceremonies.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Obama's ceremonial first pitch
isn’t supposed to be until about 7:35, so the actual first pitch will probably be closer to 8:00.
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 14, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
On a semi-related note...
Took my wife to Lambert Int’l Airport at about 3:30 for a 5:30 flight tonight. She just texted me (about 20 minutes ago) to tell me her flight was delayed so “the President’s plane can land.”
My wife got in
half hour ago. Must have beat the rush.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
Yeah, I was glad I dropped her off at like 3:30
and beat the crap getting home. Watching the AS pregame jazz comfortably at home.
Pedro Martinez is apparently signing with the Phillies
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 14, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions
Perhaps this takes them out of the Halladay sweepstakes?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Maybe, although they're not paying much for Martinez
(a pro-rated $5 million according to this article), and they could certainly use another starter in addition to him.
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 14, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4317708
“If the Phillies conclude a deal with Martinez, it will not keep them from continuing conversations with the Blue Jays about Roy Halladay, National League sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney.”
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/pedro-passes-physical-deal-expected-soon.html
“Martino reports the deal is worth around $1MM, with another $1.5MM in incentives. The Phillies are expected to make it all official with a press conference tomorrow.”
Also, has anybody linked to the WSJ article from today?
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB124752583441435271-lMyQjAxMDI5NDE3NDUxMjQ1Wj.html
If it works, it works. If not, we’ll try again.
Also, some love for Stan the Man at the Yahoo baseball blog
“Stan ‘The Man’ Musial, scheduled to be the centerpiece of tonight’s All-Star Game ceremonies, is the most underrated superstar in this history of sports.”
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 14, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions
Great article -- the man just doesn't get his due often enough outside of St. Louis
I especially like this fact:
He’s the only player in history to finish his career in the top 25 all-time in batting average, on-base percentage, slugging percentage, hits, doubles, triples, runs, homers and RBIs.
He’s probably the only player that will ever do that, just like Cy Young is the only guy who will ever win more than 500 games and Bonds is probably the only player who will ever have 500 HR’s and 500 SB’s.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i think ramirez has a chance at the 500 500 thing
i think he has more power to come…in fact…i think he may go 50 50 at some point
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Hanley is going to be on the mark for a lot of age records
It just seems that way, sometimes, to me
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He might
but he’ll probably have to move off of SS to have a shot at it, and I don’t think he’s ever going to be 50/50, or even 40/40. If he puts on that much muscle he won’t be running as much and he’ll be hitting down in the order and running a lot less as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
He has only 13 steals so far this season
so his chances of even being 30/30 are pretty slim.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
So,
Odds of Halladay walking Pujols in the 1st? That would be hilarious and awful to see.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
what i care about is the likelihood of albert taking roy to look at real estate tomorrow morning.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
i am almost to the point where i just say screw the future..lets win now
and then i immediately take it back
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
And then I say
screw THAT, get Halladay, lol. I know where you’re coming from.
Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals
www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com
Anyone catch
the shot of the snipers setting up on the roof—from the high centerfield camera (MLB.com)?
Wow, I know we were worried about Pujols getting hurt.
But that’s a bit over the top.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 14, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Obama
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
'twas a joke. i think.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I don't joke about Pujols' safety.
=)
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 14, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
believe what you will
I’m picking Franklin is the protected
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
really?!!??!?!?!
I tHoUgHt iT wAs SeCrEt SeRv1c3 4 dA mAnG
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
no prob
Cardinal fanatic since '82
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Got to peek into that world a few years back
When I was flying Chinooks in Germany we supported HMX-1 when then Pres Clinton came to Europe several times. It’s amazing what measures are taken to keep one man safe, and everyone involved in that exercise eats, sleeps, lives, and breathes ‘what ifs’. I was privileged to do some pre-mission site surveys for potential landing areas, etc., and it’s amazing what these guys think about and how every single thing, no matter how minute or trivial, could have a potential safety impact on the president.
Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals
www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com
maybe this shouldn't surprise me
but my mom is at the game and said 80% of the fans are Cards’ fans. i wonder if it’s like that at other ASGs
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Interesting....and good to hear!
I think that season ticket holders all get a crack at a pair and we know there’s a lot of Cards’ season ticket holders. Still, kinda surprising I guess because I think we all tend to look at events such as this as big corporate events where there’s no way Joe Fan would ever be so lucky as to be there.
according to ESPN
the rest of the world doesn’t get internet access or something. Boston is the best baseball town? Won’t believe it. The were one of the worst teams in the late 80’s (bringing back my old self) when they were lucky to get 15,000 fans a game.
I hate Boston.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
have you ever been to fenway?
hell of an atmosphere
best baseball town, though? getouttaheeyuh!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
dear god
i went once to take a tour. in February. and honestly, i was afraid of the people there.
I liked the WSJ article today that talked about how STL could stay competitve in this world of big vs. small markets, and how STL fans are the best.
I still vote for STL
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, how many of those are johnny-come-lately loudmouths?
Half the people there wouldn’t be caught dead in that place if they had the even the Yankees’ postseason record this century.
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