The All Star Game: This time, jokes about it counting are almost quaint
In one sense, Albert Pujols managed to please nobody in his stint at the Home Run Derby. He didn't win it, and he also intentionally messed with his swing in order to hit more home runs. But I enjoyed it—he lost in an interesting way, and heroics undertaken in the course of making it to the second round are still heroics, and come with the requisite sigh of relief and standing ovation. (Also, I have to say that it's much more fun in person, although I've heard people say just the opposite. Watching the flight of the ball without the inevitable camera issues gives you a real understanding of the scope of these home runs, which, even in our brave post-McGwire/Sosa era, are enormous. I get bored, like everybody else, with the third hour of HRD coverage on TV, but there's something bracing about being there.)
The one observation I took from the derby is this: It is awesome, in the causing-awe sense, to think that Albert Pujols, who currently leads the league in home runs, can take a swing that is more powerful than the one he uses in-game. When he started lifting his front leg and immediately sent one into the back of the stands in center it was like that moment in The Princess Bride where Inigo Montoya and Westley both reveal they've been fighting left-handed.
Tonight: The National League goes for their first victory, if I'm hearing a very confident John Kruk predict the AL win correctly, in a hundred thousand years.
Really, what's there to say about the All Star game? It's an exhibition, and its tie to reality is more arbitrary than an it-was-all-a-dream ending, but it's just viscerally exciting to see a lineup begin H. Ramirez, Utley, Pujols. The game itself isn't what I appreciate about the all star game, though; it's the way it begins the mythologizing process.
When I was a kid I was a basketball fan first, and, just before the internet would have made it a matter of a few minutes' Googling, I dove into the history nearly as much as I did the regular season. Michael Jordan was the best, but he was also my personal connection to the lineage of generational icons that had come before him, who I read about in stingily paragraphed books for kids—the faceless stars of the Boston Celtics through Mikan and Chamberlain and Larry-and-Magic all led to this one guy who I could see humiliate Bryon Russell with my own two eyes. Somewhere, at this very moment, some similarly obsessive-compulsive eight year-old is reciting this same list with Shaq and LeBron added to the end.
And part of that came from All Star Weekend, which, for my money, is still the best of the major sports' all star events. I wore out all of the VHS tapes they'd sell me, but my favorites recounted the dunk contests, in which my heroes were made into Regular People Just Like You. I'll never forget it: the solemn-voiced announcer would intone about Spud Webb or Dominique Wilkins, and in the meantime the other players would push each other around with the athlete's all-purpose good-natured-shrug and film the dunks with their own cameras. It's ridiculous, but as an elementary schooler, collecting these guys' replica jerseys, that was my favorite part.
So it was good to see that happening today; Ryan Franklin sat at the end of the bench, accosting his daughters with his beard, Hated Ryan Braun (I'm sorry, guys, but I just can't hate anybody who looks that much like Buster Keaton) met Fielder at the dugout and hung out with his kid...
I worry a lot that today's all stars, with expansion and steroids and the diffuseness of our collective attentions, won't have the same larger than life position in childhood sports fandom that they did when I forced the issue with NBA Superstars Vol. One. But luckily I've read enough Bill James to know that's one of those old-ballplayers-never-die complaints that every generation forces on the next one. As long as new baseball fans get the All Star game, as long as it's still exciting to see all these regional heroes come together in a big crossover episode and act simultaneously like regular people and superhuman sports-playing machines and machings, it'll be worth it.
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607 comments
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Comments
Wow
Considering I got my first name (Keaton) from him, I cant believe I’ve never noticed the resemblance between Braun and Buster Keaton.
P.S.
I still hate RB
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Jul 14, 2009 4:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still hate RB
Seems a little harsh. I realise he can be overly verbose and long-winded, and only does one blog per week, but I like him…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'm assuming he was referring to Ryan Braun?
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 14, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Felonius was joking
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 14, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notise realise spelled with the S.
Nice one Felonius.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Felonius is British, so it’s natural for him. Even though you’d think his name should be Felonious.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's just into the Latin
I’ve done a bit of Latin in my time… but I can control it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i always assumed
it was a t monk reference. but how that i see that spelling, i have no idea
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 14, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is an old poker alias
but I do like jazz/blues music a lot (not Thelonius in particular but I like him a lot). It struck me as a kinda cool pun when I came up with it years ago, felony/theft/poker thing really. I spelt it felonius (instead of felonious) after Mr Monk.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
he spelled his name “thelonious”

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 14, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm you're right...
must’ve been some other clever reason, I guess. British spelling, there :-)
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Latin dude
I tried to help you out up there. You took the name from Pope Felonius the IV who reigned from 645-657 AD and had started his religious life in a monastery founded by St. Benedict, hence the “monk.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's british?
What a jerk.
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 15, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still love RB
eliminate in 2nd half. NL sucks… but has much more potential
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2009 5:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
iS IT JUST ME
or does anybody else think Ryan Braun has the weirdest eyes?
by ridgesee on Jul 14, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He must have long eyelashes or something like that. I've noticed that too.
There is just something weird about his face. I could see lots and lots of teenage girls thinking he’s gorgeous. To his credit, he’s clearly prettier than Buster Keaton.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Braun as bishounen?
I just threw up in my mouth.
We’re not saying he’s in Twilight, are we?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but could Braun survive the front side of a house falling down around him...
and really why shouldn’t he try?
Also, Pineiro gets the MLB eyelashes award, although the mustache counters the overall effect.
by phesto on Jul 14, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does have weird eyes.
The Cubs fan that came over to chat when we were playing the Brewers said that they call Braun “Crazy Eyes”. I can definitely see why!
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 14, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're like a bug's eyes.
it’s so creepy.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apert syndrome
(see google)
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, he has a disorder?
for some reason now i feel chastised. my bad.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he doesn't.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, he has a disorder
maybe not that one, but he definitely has something wrong with him
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 14, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the offspring bonding in the background
was … neat. In the ‘if these kids go into baseball, they’ll be BFF’ kind of way. Like looking at our 2019 draft class.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kurkjian and that Phillips guy downtown right now
If anyone wants to have a word with them.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 8:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and now M+M're quoting Bernie
Greeeaat.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillips booed
hahaha. He was right until he said the Cubs might win the division by 4-5 games.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i went to school with a guy named
Fernando mentoya…and a guy named Nii. by then end of the yr im sure they were tired of Lines from the respective movies that their names remind me of..
Go into the forest and get a shruberry..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2009 8:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll be at the game tonight
in the Red Bird Club. Before the game I will be at the landing to witness “baseball heaven,” and to catch the parade (presented by Chevy). I am more excited about the hoopla surrounding the event than the game itself, but I think that it will be a good time!
If you hear a girl screaming when Pujols comes out, that’s me.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you actually a girl?
Or do you just scream like one when you see Pujols?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am actually a girl...
weird, but I think there might be a few of us on here…
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's weird at all
As a matter of fact, I embrace the opposite sex and I’d like to re-iterate my long standing opposition to segregation.
by sdrone on Jul 14, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Drone, I think the vast majority of us thoroughly enjoy embracing the opposite sex.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
handsy bunch, aren't we
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
coming from "the pain guy"
that’s a cryptic and somewhat scary comment ;)
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
ahahahahhaha
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
can’t wait to try this out at the bar.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the free promotion of 'Baseball Heaven,' tca...
now tell me this…did our clever kazoo handouts sell you on it or the various print and radio ads and event listings?
I once shot a man just to see him die...then I got distracted and missed it.
by TheDuke32 on Jul 14, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Princess Bride Reference=Rec
really, i think the only times i rec are when a princess bride reference is thrown out
The fact that he lifted his leg more than usual at one point but didn’t pull the trigger gave me time to prepare myself for the massive blast that ensued…my wife kept saying that he was barely hitting them out…i had to explain to her that hitting them to center field is different than pulling them down the line
i finally got her to look at the distances ESPN was giving to show that hitting a shot into Big Mac land is great, but hitting a shot 20 rows deep into left-center is greater
Having said all that, Fielder hit one of the longest homeruns i have ever seen last night…and i know hamilton hit some further last year, but the one prince hit into the tunnel in right just seemed longer because it never occurred to me that a ball could be hit there
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 14, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Same here
A very nice post, with my thoughts echoing Dan’s sentiments…
But I definitely had the full smile and an audible “Heh” when thinking of Montoya and Westley changing hands.
Well done!
by soil_illini on Jul 14, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn
I was gonna go downtown to catch Mike and Mike but didn’t. Now Gibby is gonna be there.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
listened to them this morning
steve phillips is still a tool
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 14, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Gibby
When Mike of Mike & Mike asked him what he thinks of “all of the armor guys wear up to bat these days,” Gibby said: “Oh I could break it.”
And I don’t doubt him at all.
by santiagofish on Jul 14, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
amen
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite quote was about guys who used to crowd the plate against him
“and would wind up getting themselves hit.”
by Ray Lankford on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's used that one forever
and I still chuckle every time that I hear it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember an interview once
with some dude that was part of a charity event that Gibby pitched in. This was many years after he retired too. The guy said that Gibby threw him three high “Seeya Laters” and he went and sat down. He said he never so happy to strike out in his life.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the fear of Gibby in McCarver
That’s a great sound bite.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Quick Question:
How long has the Home Run Derby been featured as part of the All-Star Game?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 14, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
According to Sporcle,
since 1985.
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 14, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh well hell
The best home runs of Cardinals / St. Louis / Albert are just scattered all over the SportsCenter runs. The best I got where they’re all together was BBTN.
Stupid ratings bait.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and who else is pissed off that Albert's defense is being downplayed again?
[raises hand]
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know he's great defensively pretty much wherever he's played, but
hes a transcendent offensive player. Great doesn’t even begin to describe his ability with a bat in his hand. Yeah, he’s the best defensive 1b in the league, but he’s going to wind up being the best hitter the game has seen since Babe Ruth.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
It’s just ridiculous that Albert has worked so hard to be a complete ballplayer, and no one acknowledges it.
In other words, the casual fan thinks Albert = Ryan Howard.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN just ran a video article about why Pujols was the Perfect player
And they did go over his defense also
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
balanced coverage, shocking
Thanks. Link or was it on the tube?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is great
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.
Is this a FanShot yet?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it was Jim Palmer with that quote...
not some nobody. Not some one year wonder. Not some 1-3 time All-Star. A Hall-of-Fame Pitcher.
by stlfan on Jul 14, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sig'd.
"The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you."--ESPN
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ewww not ESPN
as above. My mistake not attributing correctly. The MLA police will get me.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's being downplayed...it just doesn't get ratings
Timmy K’s article at the WWL.com yesterday had both baserunning and defense factored into it as well as Jim Palmer saying he’d “walk him every time” or some such crap. This quote alone should get Jim Palmer thrown out of the HOF — I thought HOF’s were supposed to compete with the best, not put them on first base?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last I checked, the object of the game was to win.
And I’m pretty sure that pitching to Albert is not a very good way to win a game.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The hugely researched article on VEB states it the other way...
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I am saying is this.
If the #4 hitter is basically crap (which ours has been most of the year), then I would put Albert on base and take my chances with some dude hitting .220 that strikes out in 1/2 his ab’s.
Now, if Luddy continues to hit the ball, then I would change my tune.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um
as chuck b pointed out in his article, if the #4 hitter is a replacement level hitter, then walking Albert Pujols every single time is still a losing proposition because you’re giving the other team a free baserunner.
In fact, you’re better off pitching to him most of the time because he’ll make an out nearly half the time, even at his superstar level, and you stay out of big innings — if he does get a hit, only 1/6 of those are going to be home runs, the others will have him on base somewhere and you facing the replacement level cleanup hitter — that’s not a whole lot worse than just walking him and you have the possibility of getting him out.
All I’m saying is that pitching around him does a disservice to your team nearly all of the time.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That article was well done
but for most of the year, the Cardinals have been the exception to the rule. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure walking albert has resulted in the better outcome(for the pitcher) more times than the lesser. I wonder if the occasional 2,3, or 4 run homer will skew numbers and hide the numerous strikeouts, GIDP’s, weak popups, ect.
Hopefully Ludwick keeps on pace for 30+ hrs and makes the point mute.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
moot
sorry, I’m that guy.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like to think of the point
as losing it’s ability to speak, thus becoming mute
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It could be
Moooooooooot.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moot is correct
but I’ve always thought that mute also makes some (strictly objective) sense too, even though it’s not a recognised phrase…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 14, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go re-read the analysis for a minute
Chuck used the stats from the players for this year in his analysis, and then compared those wOBA numbers with the analysis from The Book, and came up with exactly two scenarios where it’s a sure win for the other team to walk Pujols:
- Runners on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs in the inning – 3.3 % gain for the other team.
- Runner on 2nd and two outs – 0.4% gain for the other team.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other words
It really doesn’t matter if Luddy is above replacement level or not, it still doesn’t make sense to walk Albert Pujols unless those two situations are presented.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I somewhat understand the sentiment
and hate when other teams walk him, I just don’t completely buy into it. Some of it might be because a lot of the things like wOBA are either over my head or I have no interest in or both. Most of it is because I grew up playing the game and there are so many factors involved that simply can’t be measured. I don’t know how many of you guys played above little league, and I’m not saying you didn’t, but it’s just something that has to be experienced.
Most pitchers, whether it works out or not, give themselves a better chance for success if they aren’t terrified of the pitcher they are facing
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot of things that work
at the high school and even college levels that don’t work at the major league level. You can beat teams in high school simply by out executing them when bunting guys over, making routine outs, hitting cut-off men, and taking walks. The margin for error of those things becomes so small at the big league level that those things, while important, won’t allow a team with a large disparity in talent to overcome that disparity simply by execution.
In my home state there’s a high school coach that will nearly always, ALWAYS bunt a runner from first over to second if there’s nobody out. It’s like clockwork. He’s also won 500 some games, 5 or 6 state titles, and is in the coaching Hall of Fame. His teams simply execute their gameplan better than the other team, giving them a decided edge at the high school level.
Back to the question at hand: at the big league level, it simply doesn’t make sense to put guys on base that you don’t have to put there most of the time, regardless of how good that hitter is and how poor the hitters behind him, because all of those hitters are major league hitters, the guys that other teams used to pitch around back in high school. Sure, some hitters are better than others, just like at every level, but considering the disparity in talent is so small, it makes no sense to give the other team a small advantage that doesn’t improve your win expectancy, no matter how your pitcher “feels” about it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
Here’s a link to the aforementioned post by chuck b.
I quote:
The only scenario when it definitely makes sense to walk even an Albert Pujols-like hitter (setting aside any platoon splits) is if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs in the inning. A walk in this circumstance favors the pitching team by 3.3% (notice there’s no potential for a double play here). The effect is somewhat different in the bottom of the ninth, as you might expect, but our discussion here deals with every other inning scenario.
The Book reaches the conclusion that it almost never makes sense to intentionally walk a hitter, even Pujols, w/ no one out. With one out, a team should never intentionally walk a hitter if doing so advances the lead runner. With 2 out, the walk only makes sense to Pujols if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd.
That’s statistical analysis that flies in the face of Jim Palmer’s “gut-instinct”.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A league average hitter
not a replacement level hitter. But thanks for the shout out.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yah
I goofed that up. However, I do wonder how the analysis would go with three replacement level hitters behind Albert. How often would it be advantageous then? I still think it’s going to be a lot smaller than a lot of people would intuitively think.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I-forget-who-authored-it article actually went through the numbers and not "intuition" coming up with a different conclusion
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i had a comment in the above thread
where I looked at every time in which albert was walked, evaluated it against criteria for “should he have been walked”, and then evaluated the impact. IBB’ing Pujols at times where the book says not to IBB him cost other teams a ton of runs more than expected, at the time of the article.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had a bet with a friend of mine back in 2003
when Bonds was killing the league that walking him as much as pitchers did was not advantageous to their team. I wasn’t into sabermetrics then, so I tracked the number of times he was walked, noted time, score, and situation of each walk, and then looked at how many times the Giants scored a run in the innings that Bonds was walked. The result was something like 50 more runs over the course of the second half of the season that would have been expected had Bonds been allowed to hit in those situations. Sabermetrically, the analysis wasn’t correct, but I did win the bet, lol.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can you really rely on "expected" runs?
I expected Ankiel and Duncan not to suck this bad.
I’m not trying to pick a fight, respect your vast research and analysis, and don’t discredit it. I also have more Ludwick & Co Outs after walks than Runs after walks. perhaps they just burn a deeper memory?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course you have more 4, 5, 6 batter outs after walks than runs.
do you know of any batters with a .500+ OBP?
Albert doesn’t have a .500+ OBP either; so, if he had been pitched to in those circumstances, he would have made more outs than run-scoring plays. you’re making the wrong comparison.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my method was simple
I extrapolated out the inning based on the probability of two things happening the likelihood of those things occurring (his OBP was a sick .520 at the time):
- 48% of the time Bonds makes an out.
- 52% of the time he reaches base.
Like I said, it’s not exactly going to pass a sabercentric science test, but it goes to show how stupid it really is to pitch around on player that much, regardless of how many other hitters are behind him. I know it’s not “intuitive”, but some statistical findings aren’t intuitive. This is one of those findings.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point is
even with ankiel and duncan suckign so bad, we’ve scored more runs than we would have with league average guys behind him in the lineup.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goold on SC
sorry about the spam. SC makes me froth. (Yet I keep watching it…)
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not much for the Derby or the All-Star game
But I would pay good money to watch Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun take a long walk off the Cliffs of Insanity, shirts untucked.
by meat on Jul 14, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
lol!
I have started calling it the “Mostly All-Star and Ryan Braun Game”
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All-Stars and the Deputy
Gold star for the deputy.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why the deputy meme?
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After Braun's comments, Brewers' GM Doug Melvin was quoted as saying:
“I’ll be glad to have Ryan help if he wants to. I’ll give him a badge and he can be my deputy.”
by santiagofish on Jul 14, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I have "I Shot the Sherriff" in my head
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could do much worse
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol...
I thought it might be like, Cause he is the mayor of douchebagville!
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
links
Braun: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/49985032.html
Melvin: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/50090917.html
Braun says he’s sowwy: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/50182477.html
Kiss and make up: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/50141392.html
Of course the Milwaukee press then speculated on Braun going cold right after:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/50684547.html
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun on Pujols (source: MLB.com "Pujols at center of All-Star festivities")
Yeah," said Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun, “and it should be. It’s his city. He’s done so much for the city. I know what a great person he is. I know what he’s done off the field as well. So it should be. It should be a celebration of how great he is as a player and as a person. He’s a great ambassador for Major League Baseball. He’s the best player we have in our game today, and he deserves all the accolades and all the attention and success he’s received.”
Yes, Cardinals fans — that’s Ryan Braun, object of so much of your scorn. Braun, the slugging star of the rival Brewers, is hitting cleanup for the National League team on Tuesday night. He’s a legitimately great hitter in his own right. But even he marvels at Pujols.
“Playing this game every day, recognizing how difficult it is to have success and be consistent, when you look at the numbers that he’s put up, it’s incredible,” Braun said.
by astrostl on Jul 14, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but you forgot part of the article:
"Playing this game every day, recognizing how difficult it is to have success and be consistent, when you look at the numbers that he’s put up, it’s incredible," Braun said, prior to untucking and then removing his shirt.
by goodymobb on Jul 14, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is a great hitter
no question. and i’m sure he’s got some stuff figured out. broken clock, etc
he’s still a douche
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 14, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What a douche
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jul 14, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thankfully Braun is starting
Because if he were a reserve, there would be a chance he faces Papelbon with the game on the line. Hundreds of thousands could die from douchebag toxicity watching that scene play out.
by olddomination on Jul 14, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 10 recs
Douchebag toxicity - nice one!
I actually LOLed.
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 14, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with cardgirl
That was nice and very appropriate….oughta show that to my fiance(she’s a lifelong Red Sox fan).
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way...Pujols says he will take a PEDtest every day...
and if he is caught, will pay all the money he has ever made to the Cards.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cardinals/2009-07-12-pujols-cover_N.htm
What’s insane is there are still people who don’t believe he is clean…
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What’s insane is there are still people who don’t believe he is clean…
It isn’t that all insane. He is a major league baseball player
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
each day/month/season that passes I become more confident that he’s clean, but I still dread someday finding out he isn’t.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 14, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also a link to this on Fark.com
Intersting to see some of the comments.
by Toledo_STL_fanatic on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, I actually found it through Fark.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's insane
I mean, look at the numbers he puts up.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers are consistant.
He didn’t just spike one day. The numbers are proof that he IS clean.
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jul 14, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
Rather naive way of looking at things considering all the players that have tested positive. I won’t feel safe® in my assumption that Albert is clean until the rest of those names from 2003 leak.
That said, I hope Albert is clean. I would actually be stunned if he wasn’t. Anyone else, I’d be like, “Of course he’s using PEDs.” Even though he’s been really outspoken about this, and even though he’s a man of faith, and even though he seems like an upstanding citizen, he’s still human. And human beings lie, they cheat, they steal.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea why there's
a® thing next to the word “safe.” Clearly I did something.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming you put parentheses around your R?
by ducttape16 on Jul 14, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
did it again. I was trying to safe/safer, but instead I registered a word.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought maybe you were trademarking the word "safe"
for you own personal use…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're only safe if you're Safe(r).
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
/slaps forehead
Doesn’t work in the subject line.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The internet is out to get you.
Clearly you need to do penance of some sort. I suggest opening a Twitter account, speaking in lolcat for the next couple of days, and making some generous internet-dollar donations to VEB.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in ur thred. lol @ ur comentz
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what happens when we let women in our blogs.
The whole thing falls apart.
I kid Spants. I kid.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(making Eckstreem voodoo doll)
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering what that stabbing pain in my abdomen was.
Apparently it isn’t the Mexican food I ate last night.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOES!
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jul 14, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Code isn't just a surprisingly okay Pearl Jam record.
Anything that requires code can’t be used in the subject line. No bold, italics, links, symbols, anything. It’s one of the strangest things about the SBN software. I would love to be able to just link to something in the subject line, rather than have to do it in the body, when I probably don’t have anything to say.
Overflow up, subject line, link.
Rather than
Overflow up, subject line
Sorry for the bitching, but it’s something that pisses me off on a semi-regular basis.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jul 14, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I *hate* not being able to use italics in the subject line.
See there? It would have been really nice to use italics there, but SBN with their stupid idiotic rules, man…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you just skipped
the subject line, right?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bingo.
write your message in the body, bold it, and link it. it looks the same.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that is clever.
If only there was a way to duplicate the amount of space between the subject and the main body.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a test.
is this the same space as between the subject line and the main body? i suspect it is bigger.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, so no.
i was just curious.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed and been annoyed by that.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this has annoyed me as well.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Cubs fan who hates Pujols here, his numbers are great but they aren’t SOO great that they could be tainted. If you look at the list of all-time single season slugging leaders, Pujols falls short of the roid fested 90s/00s players and is in line with players like Frank Thomas and Jim Thome.
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 14, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are easily
so great that they could be tainted. but when you look a his track record, he’s either been juicing for decades or he’s just something special
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 14, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pujols virtue is his consistency. his comps for consistent high level performance
are people like jimmie foxx and joe dimaggio. single season slugging records are not what makes one person great or not.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets trade Pujols this off season, then
Foxx fell off. I’m convinced that Joe D is just alright if he didn’t play in NYC
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not sure if you're convinced you're funny or if you're a troll.
if it’s the first, you’re not. if it’s the second, please stop.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, just felt egged on a lot today
by people who don’t seem to read well/don’t get a joke
will stop
and by sorry, not. glad some people could get something. Just saying, hard to realize greatness until you see it in retrospect. Then, its too late sometimes. But still stand by saying that “this guy is good, here are the numbers” as opposed to “here are the numbers, this guy is good”. Pujols is obviously in the latter. Sorry to offend. If anything, I want him in STL as a person, even if he stops hitting tomorrow.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's an insanity based on not watching him play
rant ahoy. Scouts passed over him because he was overweight. And a weight lifting magazine actually criticized him for doing a regimen that maximizes power over the speed needed for a ballplayer.
He’s a big boned kid who worked hard, keeps working hard, and if he were on steroids he’d hit the ball like Prince Veg, instead of his self-avowed “line drive hitter with powah.” What’s more, I don’t think he’s had an injury that would invite PEDs to speed recovery.
If they’re only looking at the numbers, yeah, there’ll be questions. But it seems like Cards fans are the only ones who are patient enough to watch Albert’s utterly consistent career and do a simple eye-check.
If we’re all wrong about him, well, the first person Albert’s lying to would be himself.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh
Albert being fat and not a legendary hitter in JUCO—-then being plopped into the MLB as a ready made HOFer a year later as a lean hitting machine is evidence that he didn’t use? Not so much.
If I had to pick I’d say he didn’t use, and I’d venture to say he’s definitely not using now. That said I wouldn’t be shocked if it came out that he had….and you know what, I don’t care.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jut for the record
he hit better than .500 his Jr year in high school and walked 55 times in 88 PAs his Senior year and made All State both years. In JuCo he hit .461 with 22 hrs.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
The key with Albert is that he could always hit but was a chunky, roly poly, bad body with no position. Then after one year in the minors he comes into spring training built like a brick wall. I’m not saying he did use, just that there are physical signs that many could attribute to something fishy.
/dodges shoes and rocks…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, this has always been a lingering
doubt in my mind. however, i trust albert. i’ve been burned so many times before on this, but i trust albert.
plus, after that SI article a while back i’d be heartbroken if it ever came out he used.
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we've all
really bought into “he was a fat kid” logic for why he wasn’t drafted, but I don’t think he was really that fat:

I do wish he’d bring back the mustache, though:

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ahaha, who said they'd have nightmares if Albert had a stache?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After he's done being the face of the All Star game
I’m hoping he joins the mustache brigade
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't look fat to me, either.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was more about the potential of him to get fat.
He has a body type that probably requires a lot of work to keep the pounds off.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
an andruw jones
if you will
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
by BVHeck on Jul 16, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the window for me too
Especially his ultimatum that he’s making it this year or he’s not going to play baseball at all.
However, despite his being married and with a step-child at the time, he was also really young. Males of his age haven’t developed their OMS* yet. Cards fans watched him gain that here in StL, so we’re witness to whether that arc was natural or not.
* VEB term: Old Man Strength
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I may be in the minority here, but his ultimatum seems a little fishy. Rafael Palmeiro came out and said he’d never taken anything ever, period (paraphrase). Then he got busted later. I hope Albert’s not using, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he were.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ultimatum, I gotta say, makes perfect sense
When none of the scouts are biting and there’s a new wife and special-needs child at home. Not exactly a stable career path. It may just have been a tale grown in the telling.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 15, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
There’s a lot of rumors saying coaches would walk him out of protest thinking he was older. Aside from that, I couldn’t possibly care less about HS stats, they are meaningless. Andrew McCutchen hit .709 his senior season with 16 bombs in 55 ABs.
And it’s pretty much the same in JUCO, entire teams have hit .430 and one Kade Johnson put up 38 bombs…
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't care about how he hit
why did you mention it?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
I care about his hitting ability. I don’t care that he hit .500. That means nothing. I care about the talent, and HS/JUCO stats do not measure that.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To each their own
but his stats impress me. I think he wasn’t drafted b/c of the age thing, the jeans modeling, and the fact that front offices (esp ten years ago) made lots and lots of mistakes.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie Cutler hit .622 in HS
Point being you can pull out scores of guys with HS stats that are outrageous and JUCO stats like that.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, not was I was saying
I’m saying if people were wondering where his power was coming from, there is evidence in his body type that he’s got the bones to build muscle naturally. Unclear on my part. Besides, when was he lean? Point being, it’s not like he matured into an adult weight and size that was stick-like then ballooned overnight. It’s the same reason I’d count out Prince — the possibility goes down when you account for his body type and his genes.
…if you don’t care, why be upset about it?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
#1. I don’t care if he used in ‘99 or whatever. It’s not like I’m actively rooting for him to get caught, quite the opposite, but it just wasn’t a big deal then. I’d be 100x more pissed off that the sportswriters would crucify him when it’d be ridiculous.
#2. It would be naive to think with 100% certainty that he bulked all natural. Did anyone think A-Rod went from stick to monster? Anyone think Alex Sanchez has the body type of a ‘roider? Again I would wager that he didn’t, but to rule out the possibility is just naive. I know it’s nitpicking, but that’s my signature…
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
different circumstances, but...
A-Rod and a number of others allegedly used to get back from injuries. As I said, I don’t think (correct me if I’m off) that Albert’s had any injuries that would invite PEDs. Other than, say, something in the realm of a cortisone shot for the pain.
The other possibility is using to bulk up, which is what I’m addressing specifically. Probably totally unclearly.
Everything else about Albert’s game — his baseball IQ and his reflexes are observable skills, and in some cases scientifically documented. I mean, people have to have a prompt to say these things besides “oh, everybody did it”. That’s the only thing I can think of: Albert’s power.
It would be fantastic to be able to see how someone = same age/gender/body type/diet and physical activity bulks up, just to compare. Except finding a body builder who doesn’t use might be even more difficult.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
This guy juiced. This guy too. Larry Friggin Bigbie. Body type isn’t a very good explanation.
That and Pujols has gone from this to this. Note: this is absolutely 0 evidence that he did juice, in fact that’s exactly what happens when people weight lift, I’m just pointing out that if it did come out that he had used, sportswriters would use that confirmation bias as evidence and no one would call them on it.
And as dumb as Roger Clemens is, he’s actually right on how impossible it is to prove a negative. But that’s my point, it can’t be proved he didn’t.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
a guy whose uni has gotten baggier and maybe put on 10 lbs of muscle. It’s not a Bondsian transformation.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His forearms are bigger
as is his core, but it looks like he went from being 21 years old to 29 years old.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His forearms
were already big, too. It’s not like he had slender, delicate wrists and suddenly has Uggla-arms. He looks like a dude who works out. A lot.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't mean to pile on to you joker
but the two pictures are at different angles, so that skews it a bit too. It’s difficult to come up with comparisons using freely available pictures like that and those aren’t too bad. You can definitely tell he’s bigger and stronger-looking, but it’s not as if he’s the Incredible Hulk or something. Probably just enough to arouse suspicion in this day and age, which of course was your point.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is exactly the point
People went back and saw the A-Rod “changes” and confirmation biased their asses off. Did anyone see Manny Ramirez bulk up? Alex Sanchez? The point of the Pujols comparison was that it looks like he juiced way more than Larry Bigbie…when we KNOW that Bigbie did. Body type comparisons are flawed to the core unless it is Bondsian.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I don't know what the point was in the first place!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
The whole steroid issue has become very difficult to have a rational discussion about because of all the things that have been brought up in this thread, and more. I can barely even be bothered to talk about it anymore with people.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of weight, did ryan howard lose . . . oh, i don't know
like FIFTY POUNDS?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he's definitely juicing.
:)
On a more serious note, I have a similar body type to Pujols. I have to run a lot to keep my wieght under 200 lbs and I am 6 feet tall.
The advantage of this body type, however, is that muscle is pretty easy to put on. I have gone from a max bench press of 220 in December to 280 right now, and that is just by using weights at home with no personal trainer. I have cut my body fat percentage in half since then too.
What I am trying to say is pretty simple. Pujols is not and never was long and lanky like ARod or Bonds. He is stout and stocky. Strength is probably pretty easy for him to gain, but so is weight.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
word
That’s all I’m saying. There could be a number of other reasons why people say he’s doing steroids, but the most common prompt — a power surge — seems the flimsiest to me… and the product of too little information about Albert presented to the casual fan, until fairly recently.
I’m only addressing the crap people spout when they have no evidence and are pissed off that he’s just gone yard and stolen their team’s lead.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 15, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and there's something else I intended to add
but it’s gotten busy and it’s slipped my mind. fail.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because he says he's clean
…and seems willing to put his ass on the line doesn’t mean he is. There is no test for HGH, and I remember reading that part of the reason Balco existed was because they were able make designer drugs that were ahead of the league’s tests.
I’m not saying that Albert is dirty, in fact I don’t believe that at all, it’s just that he’s a ML baseball player. Fair or not, I don’t think he or any other one can be trusted right now. Personally I’ve stopped caring…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That part about him maybe leaving just gave me chills
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, I never thought in a million years that A Rod was on PEDS – he was such a great player from the get go; Manny? No-he looked like such an unfit slob out there. Sammy Sosa vehemently denied it. So did that Palmiero guy. So did Roger Clemens, and on and on. There was a time I SO looked forward to A Rod surpassing Bonds in home runs. Now I hope he doesn’t One tainted record is more than enough for me.
I take Pujols at his word – and hope that he is telling the truth. I’m telling you, I would be crushed, absolutely crushed if he did use PEDs. It’s too bad that every player gets questioned, fairly or unfairly, but that’s where we’re at.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
Sammy Sosa publicly said he’d take a PED test anytime anywhere and then one day Rick Reilly showed up with a cup and Sammy flipped out on him. So…….don’t always take these grand statements of innocence by professional athletes (any of them) for anything more than what they are.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Sosa just flipped out
because of Reilly’s douchiness.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Sosa's defense...
…if some reporter came up to me and confronted me asked me to take a piss test while I was partly naked and prepping/winding down from a game (I don’t remember which in this case) I’d be pretty pissed. I’m also sure that Reilly was completely kind about it too…wait, no probably not.
I’m glad you and i see eye to eye (hey that rhymed!) on Rick Reilly. Personally, I think he’s a self-righteous and pretentious twit who is also a hack writer. Why he has such appeal, I have no idea. He basically has two can stories: The Indignant “I Can’t BELIEVE This!”® and The This is So Sad and Uplifting and Inspirational®, and in both he works in forced attempts at humor in the form of the weird simile.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to
see people are getting use of my® mistake.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well in this case...
I’m doing it to denote that Reilly basically has two story template and because he’s so famous they might as well be copyrighted.
I really had no intention of Chitown-ing you, spants. However your struggles with the copyright auto-format were somewhat amusing.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple things I thought interesting that don't have to do with PEDs...
First, about how careful he is to protect his image and not leave himself open to tabloid treatment:
“If we’re in a hotel and a woman gets on the elevator by herself, I’ll wait for the next one,” Pujols says. "People have their agenda. You have to be careful who you can trust.
“It’s the same thing with pictures. I’ll have my picture taken on the field, but not off the field. Nowadays with photo technology, you can do so many things.”
Imagine feeling as though you need to be that careful. I’m not saying he does need to be that careful, but he clearly worries that much about people taking advantage of him.
This part I just love:
“I see teams take their jerseys out when the game is over,” he says. “To me, that’s not professional. I don’t care what you do when you get off the field, but don’t do it on the field. You don’t want kids to see negative things.”
Heh heh heh…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers' bellies have traumatized many a young child
Please donate to the Fund for Untucking Cure.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
prince fielder's belly is pretty traumatizing
even while tucked in. It’s like he has a baby shoggoth under there, wriggling, every time he swings.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I had to Wikipedia that
Not much Lovecraft to speak of in my geek resume. You have won the thread as far as I’m concerned if we’re talking about creepy imagery.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you gotta have some cthulu in your repertoire
You never know when you need a giant tentacle monster.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY
Is this thing not rec’d all to the curved edge of space and back?
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jul 14, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
afraid of the Elder things
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that really needs a...
for kids on the end.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 14, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AHA
I was trying to think of a verb. Clearly my mistake.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only problem I have with that statement is
That in the true letter of the law Pujols doesn’t wear his uni correctly either during the game. Not that I am defending what the Brewers do, the only time I like them is when they beat the Cubs, we still own those bitches since the 82 WS. But don’t bust somebody when you’re not doin it true to form yourself.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What part does he wear incorrectly?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna
guess he hates the baggy pants. Albert’s pants have gotten baggier at the calf/shoe area over the years. But other than thatt – and Albert’s far from the worst – he’s quite professional in his uniform.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn him
and his black undershirt!!!!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwt2Z3llAr0
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't been doing
that as much this year. Welley has been.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The correct way to wear a uni is with your pants rolled and tucked into stirrup socks
Not dragging the ground. I didn’t say that I hated it, but if you’re going to go after somebody else over what they do AFTER a win, then make sure you have your ducks in a row first. Something about throwing rocks in glass houses.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rules?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tradition if nothing else
the players started getting lazy about it 10 years ago or so. Boog’s is the true traditional look. I think that the trend of today looks tacky, but tacky is kind of the norm anymore for a whole of things. I don’t really care what they do, it won’t change if I do care. I’m just saying that you don’t say stuff like that over something innocuous like pulling their jerseys out after a win. It is After the game, and not they are mooning the losing team. Nor are they taking their shirts off and running laps like around the stadium. Like I said, you don’t throw rocks in glass houses, sooner or later something will come back to haunt you.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you admit there isn't a correct way, then?
(I agree that Ryan’s style looks better, I just disagree any player should be told how to wear his pants.)
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will admit that there is no uniform code
but Albert was taking about respecting the uniform. It’s a matter of perspective.
From my perspective even Albert doesn’t wear it in a traditional style, but nobody’s gonna call him on it
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there may not be a code
but i think its a proper judge of character
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoa whoa whoa
long pants shows lack of character? What definition of the word character are you looking to use?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the lack of character that doesn't appreciate the awesomeness
of stirrups, and shortpants
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
see his comment at bottom of page.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The true
traditional look is to have collared shirts, short-brimmed hats, and really baggy pants tucked into socks.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaaaaah the Cy Young look
Boy those woulda been fun to wear to…full wool unis..makes sweat run down my crack to just think about.
I really don’t type stuff to get everybody into a full blown discussion…it just happens that way.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll forward your message to Pujols
to get off your lawn. players should wear their uniforms however makes them feel comfortable. With all due resepect, and I am saying “with all due respect”, get over it
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This whole thing is blown way outta proportion
How this got turned into a three-headed monster is beyond me….to reiterate…..I don’t care one way or the other
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is that the correct way though?
I grew up playing in the 80’s and early 90’s…and this is what we wore:

If a ML baseball player wants to wear big baggy pants, then they can. I personally don’t care…they’re paid to play baseball and however they do that, within the general guidelines of baseball rules of course, is fine with me. These guys are individuals and until someone passes an NFL style uniform law they can do whatever they want.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way that look is totally ridiculous looking back on it
I love the neither up nor down pants. The zero belt was always odd too.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would be correct on that
Those were also those nasty double-knit polyester uniforms that made ya sweat like a whore in church on Easter Sunday and didn’t soak up any of it. We wore this style in Babe Ruth league but wore Boog’s style in Little League.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhh, those were the days...
We must have played in about the same era. I remember those style uni’s fondly. In H.S., we had uni’s that looked like the early 80’s Pirates – bright yellow shirts, black pants, yellow really-high cut stirrups. Nice.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 14, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember the mosquitoes well
we also had those stupid little caps that looked like a beany with a bill
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We always had the cheap, mesh-backed trucker's caps
with screen-printed letters on the front that peeled off after about 2 games.
"Baseball has been good to me since I quit trying to play it." - Whitey Herzog
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 14, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had those in LL
We had the other in Babe Ruth and HS
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is this right?
![]()
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, boog.
why don’t more players wear high socks?
The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Tigers' throwback unis looked awesome
I was at the Arch to check out the little exhibit of theirs, and man, wool unis! Crazy.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to go to a slightly
higher cut stirrup.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about his wrist bands?
it doesn’t seem very traditional to absorb your elbow sweat.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of apples and oranges though
The pants thing has to do with convention. I understand and even sympathize with what you’re saying even if I don’t agree. But once upon a time baseball players didn’t wear gloves. The stirrups weren’t always there either. There used to be ridiculous collars on baseball uniforms. That is just part of the times and has more to do with comfort than anything else. The shirt-untucking is celebration, they only do it when they win. I really don’t see this as a “glass houses” matter.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only a "glass houses" matter in that if he does it too much over little things
Somebody is gonna throw it back at him over something big. You call it karma if you want to. He already had to eat his words over Ryan Howard winning the MVP award in a year that they didn’t make the playoffs and then Albert did it last year.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(sigh)
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't sigh spants
I’ll shut up now
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
I think I slightly agree with you, in that Albert sometimes strikes me as someone who gets a little too indignant about some things.
The Howard-MVP thing is interesting to me because there are so many facets to it, and it’s all so silly. I’m not talking about you here, I’m just venting about that issue in general. People gave him so much flack for it, but there are scores of sportswriters who say the exact same thing. And since when do players’ opinions of who should get the MVP award have anything to do with who deserves it? Albert has the right to be wrong about the playoff thing. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t accept it in ’08. He clearly deserved it in ’08 and I think he also deserved it in ’06, and the fact that he was wrong about the playoffs argument (in my opinion) has nothing to do with either case. Anyway, rant over, sorry.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it was best summed by my high-fashion low baseball friend who asked
“why do some players get to wear their pants high, and why do some have to wear their pants low”
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like we need to get Bruno on the case.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the shirt untucking isn't a "style"
It’s a (deliberate) act.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
it isn’t like DD is allowed to play the whole game with that shirt untucked
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 14, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should stop picturing the aerodynamics of that.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 15, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Albert
On the untucking thing I’m right there with you until…“You don’t want kids to see negative things.”
How does jersey untucking compare to f-bombs on the field, dipping, ball scratching, PED users, a manager with a DUI, occasional brawls, anything on MTV (which just makes you a moron), Cubs fans, a stadium named after beer, and so on and so forth…
But yeah, untucking your jersey ruins American youth…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that part is silly. I'm not going to attach moral weight to whether or not your jersey is tucked in or something.
I just like the thinly veiled reference to a certain divisional rival.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he likes them much
He almost got into with their whole damn dugout IIRC.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 14, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he better study up
The Brewers are good at brawlin’.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Albert has some serious beef behind him too.
Who in the world would really want to fight LaRue? He’s got old-man strength, plus he’s a cowboy. He wrestles cattle in the offseason for fun, so putting Fielder on the ground should come second-nature.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
must rec for mental picture alone
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
screwed that up. I meant Jim Dwyer
wasn’t he fat?
And what about Terry Pendleton? I don’t recall him being slim. And I think he was trying to wear the baggy pants.
by Expatcardfan on Jul 14, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steer-tying him
with the straps from his shin guards would be hilarious.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have you ever tried wrestling with someone
built like fielder. you cant get a grip on them unless you have long arms like and ape. They just roll you off of them.
by ridgesee on Jul 14, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
larue vs counsell would be awesome
counsell apparently does MMA in the off-season, and Larue is Larue.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
might've just been an English issue
He couldn’t find a polite way to say ‘douchey’.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 14, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the stadium
..was named after a person, not a beer. I will acknowledge the link between morons and MTV.
by Toledo_STL_fanatic on Jul 14, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More significantly
I like the Brewers slam about the shirts. Hahah.
by sdrone on Jul 14, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Enjoy the game...
Hope anyone who is lucky enough to be at the game tonight enjoys it …..I had the pleasure of being in attendence the last time St.Louis held the All Star game when I was a kid in 1966 and it was such a blast to see all those great players and not only that….but to see AL players and uniforms in person! ….that was something you ONLY saw on the NBC game of the week, or if you were lucky, as I was the next two years, in the World Series ! The main thing I remember from that game in 1966 …Brooks Robinson and the HEAT…it was one of those 106 degree humid and hot day games in STL…..but man?….it was fun.. Enjoy St. Louis
by Timbo02 on Jul 14, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm convinced
that had Pujols just done the leg kick the whole time, he wins the derby and does a better job of preserving his swing, since he would never do that in a game.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OT
i find it hard to accept, but I agreed with Al re Molina’s lack of running. He has been doing that a lot lately. It also gives (maybe) some insight into the Rolen-TLR spat that Rolen did not get the same carte blanche that TLR clearly gives some players. Divisive thing for the insecure and totalitarian.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jul 14, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the doghouse is a pretty deep hole
Al, imo, was still unprofessional as a team broadcaster, because they could have easily waited for another break in the game and show a replay and calmly talk about it. Instead he exploded before the dust had settled, on what was a high point for the Cards.
But man, TLR’s tunnel-vision is intense. I think he just doesn’t do well verbally, instead evaluates physical actions. “Communication” doesn’t seem to be a priority in his press conferences. It surprises me that he pursued law. Maybe so he could have a language he could speak…? Boy, that can’t end well for a lot of ballplayers.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

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