The Home Run Derby, or, Take Good Care of My Hombre
by DanUpBaby on Jul 13, 2009 4:19 AM EDT
476 comments
I can't say I'm not nervous about Albert Pujols participating in the Home Run Derby. I'm nervous when I watch Albert Pujols do anything. My hypothetical sports car probably isn't going to get dinged when I pull through into the perfect spot at Wal-Mart, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to get that creeping-horror look in my eyes every time I look through the sliding doors and stare at it. Pujols is so irreplaceably, one-of-a-kind good at baseball that it's terrifying to watch him play baseball.
But even speaking as someone who had to watch Jim Edmonds's beautiful first half numbers get dulled by an ugly post-Derby 2003, I've convinced myself that I don't need to be any more worried than usual when I watch Albert Pujols tonight. Here's how I'm rationalizing it; I hope my tools for serenity now are useful to everybody else who watches Albert Pujols with wide, nervous-twitching eyes.
I'm going to offer these like religious proofs—the goal isn't that you buy all of them at once, but that at least one of them offers some comfort and allows you some method of wrapping your mind around the existential prospect of Albert Pujols hurting himself in something that doesn't even this-time-it-counts.
1. It's just batting practice. This is my go-to reassurance. Albert Pujols comes out to the field every afternoon and is greeted by a few thousand screaming fans who want nothing more than to see him crank home run after home run into Big Mac Land, maybe even spell their name with the remaining working letters. Back in the Bad Old Days (I liked them, but sportswriters have since informed me that there was something Tragic and Wrong about how much I loved the 1998 season) Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire, among other traitors to the game of baseball, had even more fans out there. They took batting practice with the express purpose of giving the fans a show, and they usually did. But as many ways as Big Mac managed to get injured, he didn't have to pull himself out of a BP session or the HRD. He had back problems, but never back-back-back problems.
Pujols is a real-and-true baseball player, and he probably doesn't go quite so directly for the personal-home-run-derby definition of batting practice. But nobody can resist putting on a show when they audience is already sitting there.
2. Lots of those slumps are really just regression to the mean. In-season they seem like slumps; why, Bobby Abreu hit 41 home runs in a single night and then only hit one in all of July! But he only hit one in April, too. If I gave you a list of derby champs with the years removed—better yet, someone less likely to be able to rearrange them in the correct order anyway—it would be extremely difficult to pick the year that each player hurt his swing by going a-derbying out from the rest of his career. The older players decline afterward, the guys in their prime keep on going... it's pretty typical.
Month-to-month slumps happen, even to Albert Pujols. If you've popped enough home runs to qualify for the derby, that slump probably hasn't happened yet, which means there's a pretty good chance it will happen later. Note: In spite of this, somebody is going to upbraid Brandon Inge for ruining his swing and not ending up with 40 home runs this year. I don't know why, but I do know.
3. Albert Pujols takes upwards of one million swings every day. This is one of those cognitive biases, I don't know which one—the one that says a watched pot will always boil over and scald you. Attribution bias, maybe? Anyway, Albert Pujols swings the bat at full speed all the time. He does this in tunnels, before the game, after the game, in MVP Baseball 2004 commercials. He rarely injures himself, and his slumps are rarely anything that Deidre Pujols can't coach him through. If he gets into a bad habit, he's usually able to perceive it.
One home run derby, one night of unchecked fence-swinging, is not going to be any more detrimental to his swing than any particularly successful session with Hal McRae. He's the most famous baseball player—sorry, the player most famous for playing baseball—in the world. He knows what it's like to receive curtain calls. It won't get to his head or his body to get a few more.
These are my reassurances, and I will be clinging to them. I hope they've helped you, too.
#
We were in the process of sitting down in our Futures Game seats when the grounds crew hopped over and took the—the pre-tarp(?) off of the real tarp. Welcome to the All Star game! (And this, on momup's birthday.) It was, nevertheless, an enjoyable experience, once we were able to experience it. There's not much scouting to be done at a game as contrived as this, an exhibition attended by few, spread out over several hours and a number of minor league levels, but I will say this: Brett Wallace looks notably less walrus-like than he did in our hurried Google Image Searches all these years ago. Summarizing that faint praise, I'll say that Brett Walrus: Third Base is no longer absurd on its face. He looks like a guy who plays third. (Also, he drew multiple walks. He learned his whole Futures Game skill-set from Joe Thurston.)
I got to see the legends and celebrities game, too. momup's pictures aren't yet off the camera but I will say that important figures in my first and fourth favorite sitcoms of all time clashed momentarily at first base. Also, Ozzie Smith still looks like he could play shortstop at a major league level.
All of this means that I'm watching the second game of the doubleheader now, so I'm low on insight, but it's a good time to say this: Ryan Ludwick is finally second on this team in OPS. Just in time for the break, like it was never a problem all along.
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Ludwick
I, for one, was never worried :-). He’s back on pace for 30+ HR, .800+ OPS, just like (I think) most of us thought he would at the start of the season.
Ankiel and Duncan, on the other hand…. Hmmm…. All I can say is, I hope DeRo and Glaus are back soon.
Roll on the ASG!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2009 5:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know injuries are big IFs but, what IF:
Our lineup looked something like:
Schumaker, LF
DeRosa, 2B
Pujols, 1B
Ludwick, RF
Rasmus, CF
Glaus, 3B
Molina, C
Pitcher
Ryan, SS
I just can’t wait to see that happen, though I figure LaRussa will switch Schu and DeRo positionally
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same thing we do every season, Pinky...
try to take over MLB!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Egad Brain!
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
poink, narf!
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 13, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not totally convinced...
that at this poing DeRo is a better 2-bagger than Schu. I’m not sure who’s the better LFer either.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UZR/150
I know UZR/150 is not fair to Schu right now with such a small sample size, but he is around a -14 at 2B and -.7 in LF for his career while DeRosa is around a -7 and -.1 respectively. Lets just say neither is that good of a defender (DeRosa is negative at everything except RF where he is over 21)
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
but Schu looked pretty bad at the start of the year, and has looked much better lately. I doubt Derosa (at 34) is a better defender now than he was in the past. Personally Schu’s offensive numbers look better at 2B, and Dero’s match up better with LF…I guess it shouldn’t matter when they’re in the same line-up…but it does to me.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right.
Schumaker has now improved in raw UZR for either 4 or 5 straight weeks. That means he’s actually measured better than average over the last month. It’s drowning in noise and all, and the first month of the season will be tough to recover from, but there’s hope.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Column
Talent aside, I think Albert is one of the smartest players in the game today. He knows its a long season and he wants more than anything to WIN. My prediction is he will come out, play the role of gracious host, bomb about 5HR and then sit back down to watch the other guys scramble for the “prize”.
My only concern would be if he gets to 8-9 Outs with 0 HRs. Then he might do something ill-advised…
by JWO on Jul 13, 2009 6:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
I am thinking he will do about 5-6 HRs in the first round, enough to ensure he moves to the 2nd, then he will attempt to get enough for the finals, but I doubt he will be heartbroken if he doesn’t make it and I hope he doesn’t pull a Josh Hamilton and just hit 30 for the fun of it…unless he does that in the final then I think it will be fun to watch him just demolish the other guy.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert's effort
I think that Albert is only in this out of obligation. In past derbies, we haven’t seen him really going out of his way to win it. The Home Run Derby is a nice place to see the surprise power hitter of the year, like Josh Hamilton last year, and gets boring when the predictable power hitter wins.
by graffin on Jul 13, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injury Smingery
CHICAGO – Cardinals outfielder Rick Ankiel on Sunday admitted to what many have suspected in recent weeks: He is playing with a right shoulder still affected by his May 4 collision with the Busch Stadium center field wall.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I bet if Ankiel could hit
He would be just fine
by riotmute on Jul 13, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
this sounds to me more like a:
“Hopefully I get on a hot-streak late in the season and can blame this prolonged slump on the shoulder injury. That way I can still make some millions this offseason.”
I would prefer that he was actually hurting, but the problem doesn’t seem to be his swing so much as pitch recognition.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why does this keep happening?
If you are injured, admit it and do rehab. Don’t play for a couple weeks and suck, and then say “Oh wait, I’m injured”. Why must players take on the Scott Rolen philosophy of never admitting you are hurt?
by graffin on Jul 13, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000000000000000000000000
YES. THIS.
We need someone in the clubhouse to whisper in players’ ears: Isringhausen. Isringhausen. Isringhausen.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why? Because competitors don't want to be accused of malingering.
Which is reasonable. Who wants to be compared to Mark Mulder and Matt Clement? Not that they were malingering either — their debilities were real enough — but when you get played millions to play baseball, and then don’t play, it doesn’t do your reputation any good.
But Rick, nobody is going to accuse you of malingering if you go on the DL and get this fixed, if it’s fixable. Really. It’s cool.
by StanTheManFan on Jul 13, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
The same team that stood by him for years while he was working out his control issues and then converting to an every day player is suddenly going to trade him for a fixable arm issue.
by graffin on Jul 13, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walt != Mo
Jocketty was the GM who stood by Ankiel. Not Mo. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mo did trade him or let him walk in the off year.
However; like most things in this world; this probably had more to do with money than anything else. If he misses half the season with a shoulder injury it could be the difference in millions. But if he is truly injured than more than likely he is just making it worse. This is something athletes fall victim to. They are so used to playing through pain that they will play through injury (two separate things). And pro Sports teams are all about drugging them up so they can play through the pain.
by Evilfrog on Jul 13, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think
that Ankiel would actually be able to get a job this offseason if it is revealed that he has been injured this whole time. Who wants to sign someone with his numbers if they are healthy?
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Jul 13, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand this, and I can't say I wouldn't try to do the same thing if I were a player
But at a certain point, you have to realize that, shit, I’m hurting the team. My concern for my reputation is hurting this team. Its selfishness disguised as toughness.
On the other hand, its not like we have a ton of options either. I suppose Stavie would platoon with Pumpkin (or Schu, because Pumpkin isn’t much better than Dick).
by Ray Lankford on Jul 13, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This falls under the category of no shit, sherlock.
Where was the team to call him out on this crap? It was PAINFULLY obvious to anyone with a brain for the last 2 months.
by rencelas on Jul 13, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
judging by how fashionable it is to hate on dick here
It’s safe to say it wasn’t even on the back of anybody’s minds.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still heart Dick
wait, that sounds bad…
Yeah, it’s easy to hate on him based on his craptacular performance this season. It’s painful to watch strikeout where he struggles to even foul a pitch off. I just can’t believe after how he raked in 07 AAA then the bigs and last year when he was healthy that this is really him. It sure looks like he’s hurt.
I’m probably the only one but I’m still rooting for him to regain that 07 level. But he needs to DL so he can have a rehab stint, not do at StL.
by paposse on Jul 13, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Rick Ankiel.
I have 2 Ankiel jerseys. I’ve liked him and pulled for him for years. But, when he’s batting .082 and OPBing less than most guy’s batting averages – yes, it did become pretty damn obvious he was screwed up. I’m hoping a nice long DL stint will help him back into healthy form.
by rencelas on Jul 13, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was fantastic to see Ozzie in a Cardinals dugout again
Mike and Mike are in Keiner Plaza right now, btw.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 8:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was pretty rad
The celebrity / legends game was far more interesting than I originally figured. The players all looked like they were having a really good time with it.
Plus Shawn Johnson did Ozzie’s trademark flip to first. It was cute.
by rencelas on Jul 13, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
niiiiice
Hey, Bud Selig’s in town right now. In case anyone wants to, say, tell him what they really think…
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe somebody could...
“pay him a visit” mob style.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was prolly a good thing TLR was outta town then
if Ozzie was in the dugout. Ya know, since they love each other soooo much and all.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why????
Why would you post that picture at the top?
- a bunch.
by paposse on Jul 13, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Futures
I missed it, did they get the whole game in? (Going to search interwebs for results now).
For those who were there or watched how did the Future Redbirds do?
by paposse on Jul 13, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
check out FR
today’s DFR recaps how those 3 did and yess they got the game in
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They played a 7 inning game, and got all of it in.
Wallace had 2 walks. Daryl Jones had a hit. Francisco Samuel didn’t pitch well.
This is what I remember after the eleventy hour rain delay. I may be off a bit.
by rencelas on Jul 13, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has Ryan been positioned out in left field a lot?
I live in CHicagoland so I don’t see the Cards regularly. I almost laughed out loud when they had him playing shallow left for several players over the weekend.
by sdrone on Jul 13, 2009 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Morgan
of course, made a lot out of that positioning last night saying how it restricted Brendan’s range, blah-blah-blah, etc. To me, it didn’t seem all that severe. It was a lot like Belliard used to play 2b, just on the other side of the diamond. And he seemed, as best I could tell, to only do it against RH power hitters (DLee, ARam, etc.).
I suppose that positioning does increase the length of some throws, etc., but Ryan’s got a strong arm and I don’t see how in the world playing farther away from someone hitting a ball hard to your right or left DECREASES your chances of getting to said ball.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if you've read the SI article on Earl Weaver
here but half of it seems like a description of TLR.
Weaver..
1. Used little index cards
2. huge believer in pitcher/batter matchups regardless of sample size
3. Mixed and matched to get the most out of any player
HOWEVER, Weaver was NOT….
1. a believer in bunting.
2. a believer in hit and run
He apparently hated giving up outs.
by sdrone on Jul 13, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+infinity on hating giving up outs
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd support swapping
the souls of Weaver and TLR right now. I loved Weaver’s book On Baseball, in which he explains the preciousness of your 27 outs and why throwing them away isn’t worth it. My favorite quote from him (probably a paraphrase):
“If you play for one run, that’s probably all you’re going to get.”
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 13, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sums up over managing and sacrificing, doesn't it?
And rather beautifully. I’m generally only in favor of playing for one run when a single run is all you need.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
There’s another great quote in that book, re the value of having power hitters in your lineup, i.e., being able to hit a three-run HR is so much better than having to “manufacture” runs all the time. Something like: “Why so many baseball people can’t seem to understand that is a mystery to me.”
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 13, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you're not guarranteed a 3 run dinger
granted that you’re not guarranteed anything, but take what you can get sometimes. I’m pretty sure Whitey made this work for a bunch of years here. But I digress, the way things were aren’t how they are now.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whiteyball wouldn't work in this era
It worked really well for only a couple of reasons in it’s time:
- Astroturf, which made fast players even faster.
- Huge, cavernous ballparks like Busch II (before the remodel), the Astrodome, Three Rivers Stadium, Veterans Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, and so on. You could much more easily create runs in the running game on turf at these fields than you could play for the three run homer, because you got a lot fewer three run homers in those days.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3. Three Doors Down sucks.
4. Today’s offensive levels.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree....
The main factor of Whiteyball, was simply getting on base, not the running game. That will score runs in any era.
by DiscoJer on Jul 13, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were in the top 5 in the league in OBP
for most of the Whitey era, but they were also in the top five in SB’s for most of the Whitey era as well. To say that the “main” factor didn’t revolve around overall team speed (which leads to great defense and a great running game) is misrepresenting what “Whiteyball” really was.
Name a team in the current era that leads the league in OBP and has 5 guys with 30+ steals? It simply doesn’t happen anymore.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I disagree
OBP is the most important factor when scoring runs, not stealing bases. Stealing bases might help, but high OBP was the reason they were successful.
And he even touched on this in one of his books. He bitched about Vince Coleman not getting on base enough.
by DiscoJer on Jul 13, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
why don’t the A’s win a ridiculous amount of games every year? They’re among the top 5 in OBP almost every season! It takes more than just OBP.
I’m not disagreeing the OBP is more important than stealing bases. However, you seem to be discounting the fact that most teams that lead the league in OBP also usually are among the tops in the league in slugging, HR, and extra base hits. This was even the case in most of the 80’s except for those Cardinal teams, who were consistently in the back 1/3 of the NL in homers and slugging, but led the league by a wide margin in SB’s. The SB’s helped offset the lack of XBH while making their defense fantastic for most of that era.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't there an article valuing Vince Coleman's stolen bases last year?
Essentially equating his SBs to SLG %?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
can’t remember where it was or who wrote it though. I think it was something linked to from VEB.
From what I remember, all of Vince’s steals, after subtracting his caught steals, actually increased his slugging by nearly .100 points or something like that. The original author made a more concrete case by finding the value of each stolen base based on attempt, but the final result was a boost to his overall slugging percentage.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did something like that with Rickey Henderson
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/4/18/415567/what-is-the-value-of-a-ste
I’m not sure if that was what you were thinking of. It was actually really rough and crude on my part, but it got some good discussion going. I realized coming away from that discussion that the whole key to it is the situational aspect of the steal…that the game presents many situations where the breakeven point may be in the low to mid 60s (possibly lower) as well as cases where it would be in the high 90’s.
In other words, saying a guy has to succeed 80% to break even isn’t really accurate. If a runner picks the right spots in a game, they could potentially be successful 2 out of 3 times and it could be a net gain.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 13, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember your analysis...
but it isn’t the one I’m thinking of. I don’t think it was done here at VEB, I believe it was done by one of the saber friendly sites, but I can’t remember which one and I can’t find it.
There has to be a way to chain together all the situations for steals to come up with one metric for measuring stolen bases and relating them to another rate stat though.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WPA should be useful for this.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On an individual basis, yes
But I’m talking about chaining together all of the possible stolen base situations and the value of the SB in that situation with varying degrees of success.
In other words, you’d have a constant for the value of each Situation (S) multiplied by a varying degree of success (10%, 20%, etc = D) all chained together to tell us the value of a steal in a particular situation (N)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see that article
Since it’s been a area I often wonder about.
I’ve thought perhaps you could go situation by situation, and deal with win expectancy changes by result to measure the net value for an individual. But I think that is way too simplistic even. There are some pretty nebulous items involved that may never be able to be accurately measured. Things like the potential to force a defensive error, ability to drive a more advantagous pitch count because of pitchouts/pitch selection, ability for the hitter to easier guess pitch coming (more fastballs), etc.
In short, I think it is an area that is currently undervalued but having substantive support for that position is difficult. Or at least, being able to quantify anything is difficult.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 13, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway, to clarify...
When “Whiteyball” worked (they did well), they led the league in OBP. 82,85, 87, they were first in the league in OBP (and in 81, which they had the best record, they were 2nd)
by DiscoJer on Jul 13, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the original definition and the current definition
may/may not be different but when the common public refers to whitey ball they mean small ball.
It’s like everybody kept mispronouncing carAmel so it eventually became accepted as both caramel and carmel. English is fun (no i’m not an english major or anything, I just hate inet nitpicking) you can change meanings of words, pronouncaitons, make shit up, etc.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really didn't think I was developing a big topic line
when I typed that.lol. I actually wasn’t referring to “smallball”. I was referring to the fact that Whitey would put on the hit and run or run and hit as it actually is, or bunt the guy over because of his confidence in his offense to finish the job.
True, they had an enormous park to hit in, and that’s what helped them win. Get a man on send him and slap the ball out of the infield and into the gap and let them run. But let’s face it, team speed isn’t what today’s teams are built on and the stolen base is a lost art form for the most part. Why is that? Because the talent pool isn’t what it was. I know this is getting off base but I have a point:a guy like Vince from 25 years ago doesn’t play baseball with his speed. He plays cornerback/wide reciever or running back/free safety and makes a lot more money a lot faster than baseball players do today.
As to what Vince did? in 1985 he got 170 hits and 50 walks and stole 110 bases. So half the time he got on, he was turning a walk or single into a double or a double into a triple. Now that is how you manufactured runs, especially with Willie hitting behind him. He also stole 107 bases in 86 and 109 in 87, now when was the last time you saw that.
Speakin of giant-assed parks, why San Diego doesn’t try to build a track team for that monstrosity of theirs is beyond me. They could run teams to death in there.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I'd like to know
more about comes from a remark that I heard from TLR right after THREE NIGHTS IN AUGUST came out. TLR, Buzz Bissinger and John Grisham (yes, THE J. Grisham) appeared in D.C. over the winter of 2005-2006 in an auditorium near George Washington University to talk about the book. There was a Q&A at the end, and one fan asked TLR why there are so few steals these days. TLR’s response was that Gene Mauch had figured out some techniques for holding the running game in check that had been gradually adopted throughout baseball. There was no fudging; essentially he said Mauch had figured out how to do it and that’s the reason.
I’ve never heard that anywhere else, but I’d be interested to know more about it.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 13, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Buzz Bissinger bit the questioner.
That’s what I heard.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've aways thought it's odd
the only thing TLR calls from the dugout is the running game. He trusts Yadi to call the pitches, but not to call pickoffs, holds, pitchouts, etc.
Maybe he does know something we don’t know.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think Yadi improvises on some of those pickoffs?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But how many catchers
actually have Yadi’s arm and intelligence? There aren’t that many of them. He is an elite as far as catchers go.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But of course.
And I’m sure Tony knows that.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I can agree with that
but you would have to get more than TLR’s opinion. I would like to get other managers to say it and then just how it works. I still say that the amount of money that can be made by players in other sports has a bit to do with it, overall.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy that.
The great basestealers are still getting 60-70 steals in a given year, they just aren’t running as much as they used to. If what TLR said was true, there would be a lower success rate for stolen bases league wide, not just a decrease in steal attempts.
The game has changed. Why would you run as much as those Cardinal teams did when you have 3-4 guys in your lineup that might hit 20 home runs? Moving from first to second at a 20% risk doesn’t make much sense when Pujols or Ludwick could drive one out of the yard and score you from first base. Clark was the only guy on those Cardinal teams to hit more than 20 homers in any of those seasons, but the 2009 Cardinals have 1 player who’s hit more homers at the break than Clark hit in any season as a Cardinal, and 2 others on track for 20 homers this season (Rasmus, Ludwick).
Gene Mauch may have figured something out, but you don’t see the slide step near as much now as you did then, so I don’t think that it’s just the pitchers — I think it has a lot more to do with the amount of home run hitters in the current game.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Clark hit 35 in 87 but you made a point there
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn!
that was the year I didn’t check, also his last year in St. Louis if I’m not mistaken.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't really answer you earlier
Okay You say that it doesn’t make much sense to steal 2nd with an 80% success rate if you have 3-4 guys that can hit a homer, I say that if you have a guy that has the ability to steal in front of them then do it. Because over, let’s say a 650 AB season Pujols is going to have to hit 65 homers to reach even a 10% chance of hitting one.
Your other hitters are maybe 3% each so all together not quite 20% of a chance of a homer. That leaves 80% for getting out and hitting something other than an HR. It takes a fast SOB to score from first as well as a gap or a down the line hit. So why not if they have the abilitiy to do it. It is much easier to score from second or third than from first.
A guy with a rep for stealing puts that much more pressure on the pitcher, that much more chance for a mistake. Pujols has an eighty percent success rate and he is not a speed demon. So somebody with some real speed and skill is that much better. Maybe it is outdated, but I think that it is missing from the game. But I will still maintain that we don’t have the total talent pool that we used to have for MLB.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 14, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Selig is buttering up St. Louis in Keiner Plaza.
And trying to justify the “this time it counts”. espn2.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel dirty.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Half way home...
1. 4th Place Pecota projected cards are 1st place in real and imaginary sabr standings (3rd order wins). I’m shocked by Pinata & waiting for Franklin to implode. Not shocked by Albert being albert and ludwick back on track,. Semi Shocked Ankiel and Duncans brutal season. Pleasantly semi-shocked Carp is back to being Carp.
2. lol @ the billion dollar cubs.
Tres. That’s spanish for 3
3. Three Doors Down sucks.
4. Anxious to see “who can’t handle the pressure down the stretch” or any other nonsense.
5. Walrus “looks like a X”, this buzz phrase is said usually half joking, however, this is massive cognitive bias…but it doesn’t exactly hurt being big and strong ;-)
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 9:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm assuming that's a reference to texts from last night
and if it is, i love it
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
by bmorgan on Jul 13, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup.
that site and Fmylife i check religiously on my iphone all day. I kinda like 3 doors down but it’s just funnier to leave it as/is.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
regardless of your affection for 3 doors down
texts from last night are a welcome distraction at any time. i laugh out loud every time i read that site.
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
by bmorgan on Jul 13, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(210): I guess what I’m trying to say is you’ve fucked more people than the economy.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Selig defending Albert Pujols
Oh man, we don’t need your help. What he says is right, how he says it makes it seem like he’s a car dealer and it’s a lemon.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bud as used car salesman
Selig can’t help being what he is (and what he was).
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 13, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SC will show a package of memorable Busch Stadium HRs
Speaking of DanUp’s 1.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One thing I noticed about the Walrus
When I saw him in Portland two months ago, I do remember that he had a hell of an arm. All of his throws to first during warmups were absolute seeds with no arc whatsoever.
Also, he kind of reminded me (body shape wise) of Lance Berkman. Maybe he’s slimed down a bit since then.
by cloistermaximus on Jul 13, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would settle for Wallace turning into Berkman.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
I would “settle” for that as well.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd settle for Nick Johnson minus injuries, plus ability to play passable third base
That seems to be what some scouts and the numbers are hinting at lately.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd "settle"
for that as well. The “minus injuries” part is pretty important, though.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the minus injuries part would be a huge plus.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm calling for a Mark Grace/John Olerud career
with a chance of showers.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Somebody tell me if I have this figured right
If W=Wallace, B=Berkman, and P=Pujols, and since Pujols is worth multiple players by himself, we have to multiply instead of add, then the formula would look something like this:
Where W=B, then BxP= the Killer BP’s? I wonder if that is how the two of them would treat Major League pitching if they were together? Something to drool over in your sleep or work or ….wherever.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will be pretty darn cool
if Walrus hit 2nd in front of Albert, with Colby either leading off (not my favorite spot for him) or hitting 4th (my preference).
Jon Jay can lead off.
That is one hell of a lineup, and I have nowhere to put Ludwick!!! 5th?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 13, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick batting 5th?
What an absolutely deplorable problem to have!!
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about...
DJ Tools hitting leadoff?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the kid can hit for avg and work the count for a walk
at this level…I don’t see why not.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a round-a-bout way...
Goldstein called him Carl Crawford with more walks according to AZ at futureredbirds…unfortunately the content is subscriber only at BP. I don’t think Jones will be ready at the start of 2010, but he could contribute next season.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That works for me, since Walrus
will no doubt bring good OB skills to the plate, but isn’t a base-stealing threat. My problem with Colby at #2 is that his base stealing skils are essentially put on the shelf.
What I’d really like to see is 2 high-OBP guys in front of Albert, and “damage” in the 2 spot be damned. Leadoff with Colby, use Schu at #2 against righties, Wallace at #4, Luddy 5, etc.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 13, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else ever picture Rasmus as Benjamin Franklin Rodriguez?
Better known as Benny the Jet from The Sandlot?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see Rasmus hitting lower
That way, after singles, he could steal more bases and allow us to leverage our singles hitters into a bit more of a run-producing threat. Two high-OBP guys in front Pujols would be ideal. It doesn’t matter if they can steal because they won’t be allowed to do so lest first base be made unoccupied and ripen Albert for the walking.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree to an extent.
But, don’t forget that Pujols hits lots of doubles too. It is nice to have enough speed to score from 1b on an extra-base hit.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 13, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
IIRC, line-up studies have shown that stolen bases are more valuable out of the 5th spot than out of the leadoff spot etc, assuming your lower half of the order is less likely to hit a home run.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"He's the most famous baseball player—sorry, the player most famous for playing baseball—in the world."
Well said.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on Jul 13, 2009 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I loved that line, and the “back back back” line as well.
Kinda like a kidney punch to Manny, Jeter, Damon and others.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three points from last nights game
1. What is up with the Brendan Ryan side arm flip throw to 1b? I don’t get to watch that many games, but I thought he had a pretty decent arm. It was especially notable on the play on Lee deep in the hole. Is he being lazy?
2. ESPN give me a break. Quit showing Wainwright’s hand getting hit by that ball going into 2b. It was nerve-racking enough the first time. But then you show it like 13 more times and now it is causing me worry.
3. I feel pretty confident that Adam Wainwright is a better hitter than Joe Thurston. Hitting one batter later against the same pitcher and WW’s PAs looked better than Thursty and had better results. I really think the key to second half success is seeing half as many or less PAs by Thurston. Got to get some production at 3b.
by OCCardsFan on Jul 13, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was trying to get rid of it quickly...
1. What is up with the Brendan Ryan side arm flip throw to 1b? I don’t get to watch that many games, but I thought he had a pretty decent arm. It was especially notable on the play on Lee deep in the hole. Is he being lazy?
That ball still had plenty of steam on it from deep in the hole. He has a great arm at the SS position, witness his webgems last week throwing from behind the third baseman to get an out.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still trying to figure Boog
Apparently he says he’s more comfortable slinging it. As long as his timing’s right, I don’t have a problem with it.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He definitely still got the out
It just looked like a bit of a lollipop to me and doesn’t seem fundamentally sound. But overall nothing to complain about with this defense. I just wasn’t sure if this sidearm thing is something he does often or not and what hte reasoning was.
by OCCardsFan on Jul 13, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just about every throw from Boog...
is sidearm, but he still gets plenty on it and is very accurate. Looks a bit ugly, but more than adequate.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Everyone turn off your inner little league coach. At this level, it only matters what works best for the player. And if that’s what works for Ryan, then that’s what works for Ryan.
by mojowo11 on Jul 13, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean
remaking deliveries, swings, and fundamental techniques at this level might not be the best use of resources?
by goodymobb on Jul 13, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
honing not remaking
I agree totally remaking a player is not wise, they got to this level somehow right?, but honing their skills, reminding them about fundamental base running and fielding is helpful and exactly what I think Oquendo does with the infield.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think throwing that way looks better
but I also sling it with mostly my wrist.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's how he throws
unless he’s got to really “gun” it; then he throws over-the-top…
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 13, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind
There are a lot of players at this level that sling it sidearm from there — most of the time they can be more accurate and get rid of the ball quicker doing it that way. Ozzie threw from 3/4 or sidearm nearly his entire career.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was because
Ozzie had a tear in his rotator cuff that he never had repaired. Right?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 13, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boog has a recurring wrist issue
Question – connected to his throwing preference?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think that would aggravate
is elbow more than his wrist, but who knows.
I think he’s said he feels his throws are more accurate by side-arming it.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
My comment barely makes sense. That’s what I get for “multitasking.”
I meant to say that I think throwing side-armed would aggravate his elbow more than his wrist, if it aggravates anything at all.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can make that jump
in my mind. maybe with the slinging motion there is less wrist flexion and with the over the top throw the wrist flexes more?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 13, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree with both y'all
Is there a doctor in da house?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a doctor
but a soon to be doctor of physical therapy. . .
I’d say I’m qualified to answer my own question.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 13, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be the exception
and not the norm, but throwing from a lower arm slot allows me to use my wrist more.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no evidence that I know of that throwing sidearm has any effect on the wrist.
As spants mentioned, elbows shred for it all the time- see Worrell, Mark; Neshek, Pat.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eckstein threw overhand.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Big throw!!!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ecks looked like he playing Hi-Li when he threw.
Used to crack me up, but it worked.
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He threw so hard
his feet came off the ground.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he'd damn near come out of his socks
on every throw.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Jul 13, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TLR vs Hungo
So looks like we have a good old fashion mud slinging match brewing during the ASB. They seem to be arguing about Hungo calling Molina out for not running out the dropped flyball by Soriano.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunaetely, I'm siding with Hungo on this one.
While I agree with TLR in that 1) Molina doesn’t have to run out every ground ball, hit ball, etc. and 2) that you don’t sprint out a pop up to shallow left field with the bases loaded (really, where are you going to go?), however carrying your bat while you are walking to the dugout is wrong. And Hungo rightfully pointed it out as something that shouldn’t be done.
LaRussa’s being defensive for no damn apparent reason. But we’ve seen it plenty of times before out of him.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jul 13, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. I think you should run out EVERY ground ball, flyball etc.
as hard as you can. These guys are professional athletes. They’ve got to run 60 f’ing feet once or twice (tops) every day. Then they can happily go back to the dugout and put their feet up for ten minutes. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that they run down every possible chance of getting on first. I’ve seen Molina get thrown out once or twice this year when he’s hit a routine GB, barely walked up the line, and then been thrown out by only a couple of steps after a fielder (3B or SS) has bobbled it. I reckon if a rookie (say, Rasmus) had done the same thing he’d be catching a lot more heat.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also: it was the Cubs.
Bobble is their middle name.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's their...
last name?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unprintable
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like a recipe for pulled hammies
to me. I am on the hustle end of the spectrum, but you can hustle without running out every batted ball “as hard as you can.” Whether this game seems easy to you or not, these guys perform at a professional level nearly every day and it does take a toll on their bodies. In most sure out scenarios running 80-90% is good enough to be in position to take advantage of a misplay.
I am on Hungos side on this one. I can’t believe TLR is going after his chief apologist.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 13, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a catcher, +1
In the adult leagues I play in you get to have a designated runner for pitchers and catchers…and we only play once a week fro 7 innings…can you imagine 150 professional games behind the plate?
Wasted effort.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
I always felt like I was much more likely to get hurt when I was dogging it. Hustle all the time, and your muscle memory takes over. Hustle half the time, and you open yourself up for stupid injuries.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so this is why we can't get rid of Joe Thurston?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you ever
play 162 games over six months? Plus, I don’t think running at 80-90% qualifies as dogging it.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 13, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wasn't running at all
he was walking back to the dugout with the bat in his hand.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
I guess I thought you were disagreeing with me….nvm
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 13, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is the point in busting it up the line there?
The bases are loaded, Ankiel’s basically standing on first base. It’d be like that douche bag who revs his engine and squeals his tires when there’s another red light about 50 yards away.
I’m not defending Molina here. By no means should he be still carrying his bat and heading toward the dugout. But, sprinting up the line when there isn’t going to be a play on him and there’s no chance in hell he’s going anywhere other than first. is a total waste of energy and falls under the category of “fake hustle”.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
aren't bases 90 ft
or am I missing the point?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think he's suggesting that rick ankiel charge the mound twice a day
and see if he gets more pitches to hit.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it
when a plan comes together
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like Tony probably already mentioned it,
and he feels like Hungo is stepping on his toes. We all know he loves hustle so obviously they are agreed; I’m sure it’s just a matter of style.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet Lou vs. Bitter Tony
How wonderful were the eighth inning field managerial maneuverings? Lou stashing Marshall in LF and then TLR waiting for him to come back to the mound and take the ball before sending in Hoffpauir (after making sure that Marshall would have to pitch to Jarrett). Sure, Jarrett had an awful PA, but that was really entertaining to watch.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed it
From reading the P-D it sounds like Tony sure did as well.
by paposse on Jul 13, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could have sworned I learned on this website
that rules were changed post-Whitey to eliminate that. But I’m glad managers can still do it. It’s great.
by sdrone on Jul 13, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it were in the AL...
Would PIniella have to put his DH in at LF, put the pitcher in the dugout, and then take the DH out and put the pitcher back on the mound?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. If you ever swap your DH for a position player, every position has to hit from there on out.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they were
at least, if Joe Morgan got it right. They said that the rules now are that if you bring a guy in to pitch, he has to throw to at least one batter.
In Whitey’s day you could apparently bring a LOOGY in to face a LHB, and if the opposing team pinch hit, you could send the loogy to LF, bring in a RHP to face the RHB, and then bring the LHP back in to face the next guy. Now if you bring him in he has to throw to one guy before he goes to the OF.
But I could have misinterpreted. I’m not aware of that rule and haven’t looked it up in a rule book, it’s just what the ESPN idiots said on the air.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A question I had last night:
Couldn’t Marshall just have thrown an intentional ball and then they could bring in Marmol on a 1-0 count to face Hoffpauir?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought you couldn't change pitchers in the middle of a PA
unless the pitcher was injured.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol was taken out Saturday
after throwing a wild pitch, 1-0 count.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that wasn't the first hitter that he faced
He had faced 5 hitters prior to Skip. What tom is saying is that if a pitcher comes in he must face one batter, for the entire at-bat, unless the pitcher is injured and has to come out for that reason. Marshall could not have thrown one pitch to Hoff and then be lifted for Marmol, he had to face that hitter.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of years ago when
Frank Robinson was managing the Nats, he would occasionally pull a pitcher in the middle of a plate appearance.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 13, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the rule in the Official Rule Book
Rule 3.05(a): The pitcher named in the batting order handed the umpire-in-chief, as provided in Rules 4.01 (a) and 4.01 (b), shall pitch to the first batter or any substitute batter until
such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the pitcher sustains injury or illness
which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, incapacitates him from pitching.
I’m not sure when this rule was put into the book, but that is the rule as stated, which would make your above scenario illegal.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know when this became the rule
but I certainly remembered it this way for a long time now. It may have been changed from the ’80’s. I do remember Whitey swapping left and right handed relievers between the mound and right field (at least that the spot I seem to recall him using) several times, but I don’t remember if he did it freely between pitch hitters, etc or had to follow the above rule.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 13, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like
this has been a rule for a long time — probably prior to Whitey. I do remember that he used to stash a lefty in right field, but it had more to do with carrying fewer pitchers than it did with a specific on-field advantage.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My sentiments on the Derby exactly
Edmonds career sort of went downhill after his HR Derby appearance, so this Albert appearance with is of concern considering he is The Franchise.
However, he knows how to avoid injuring his elbow after playing with it in much worse conditions for entire seasons.
Also, he’s pretty much obligated as the host to participate. If he gets hurt, you can’t second guess anyone for allowing him to participate.
by olddomination on Jul 13, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Career or season?
He was an 8 win player in 2004…
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 13, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his post concussion and leg issues
were the decline of Jed, not HR derby.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't worry too much about the HR derby thing
at least in terms of “ruining a guy’s swing” or something like that. It just seems like there’s an awful lot of post hoc ergo propter hoc going on. In fact, as an aside, I would love to see a list or index somewhere of just how many facets of traditional baseball wisdom are actually textbook examples of classic logical fallacies. You could probably teach an entire freshman undergraduate level philosophy class using nothing but baseball.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Edmonds aggravated
an existing shoulder condition in that Derby. I don’t think Pujols has any shoulder or upper body issues other than the six year old elbow problem.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 13, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't aware of that
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A rec and a hearty
“well done” for you, my friend, for getting both Latin and a discussion of logical fallacies into a discussion of hitting a projectile with a stick.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 13, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Knocks on wood*
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 13, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OT: Acta fired as Nats manager.
I guess the GM can’t fire himself for trading away Ryan Church and failing to sign any pitchers to help out the worst staff in the majors.
It’s sad when a manager gets the axe for something like this when it’s clearly a personnel problem — which is the GM’s domain.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd settle for bringing him in as a another bench coach
He’s one of the guys that’s very well versed in the saber methodology and uses it to his advantage, he just hasn’t had any talent, pitching or otherwise, to accomplish anything with it.
He’ll get another job someplace else I’m sure — his situation in Washington was anything but favorable. Too bad he won’t get a chance to manage Strasburg, since his team’s losing netted them the top pick in the draft.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just looking at the standings this morning
and couldn’t believe how bad they are….yeah even IF the manager can add 3 wins they’re still a shitty team.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 13, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the interim GM's defense
Acta wasn’t “his guy.” I believe that Bowden hired Acta, didn’t he? Nonetheless, it’s pretty silly. The bullpen has been uniformly horrible, no matter who Acta uses when. It’s basically like rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
But you’re replacing him with Jim Riggleman? He hasn’t won anywhere, ever. Why not just keep Acta and look to upgrade the roster? They are clearly an inferior team to everyone else in the league in talent alone, so your first step is to fire the manager? That just doesn’t make any sense to me. Upgrade the roster and give the man some players to manage and see how he does — if you don’t get any improvement, THEN fire him.
The GM’s incompetence is pretty unprecedented here. He could have signed any number of starting pitchers instead of signing someone like Adam Dunn, who is horrible defensively and plays outfield, where they have a lot of talented players. They’re pitching is atrocious, I find it hard to believe the Riggleman is going to change that, OR that he’s going to be “the guy” going forward. If they think that they can hire a better manager than Manny Acta with all the other bullshit that’s going on in their organization, they’re really sorely mistaken, imo.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
It’s part of a larger reality of baseball. Managers get too much credit when clubs win and too much blame when they lose. The Nationals organization has far more wrong with it than Manny Acta. In fact, Manny Acta might have been a factor that the organization had going for it before they axed him. I think the interim GM, or new GM, will hire a new manager in the offseason and that manager will manage the last place team in NL East next season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Riggleman can be thought of as an interim mgr
… and they try find a real manager in the offseason.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jul 13, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's fine
but how is the organization better because of that move? That’s my problem: They aren’t better off with Riggleman and the same players, so why not keep the manager, upgrade the roster in the offseason by bringing in pitching and losing the dead weight (Dmitri Young, etc.). It’s setting your organization back even more when you fire the manager because there’s now no consistency to how the organization is being run. It’s ludicrous to replace him midseason when the players actually like playing for him.
Look at the really successful baseball teams over the last 20 years. What do nearly all of them (save have in common? Consistency at the managerial positions, both GM and on field manager. The Twins, Braves, Cardinals, Angels, etc. all have long tenured managers. All of those managers are good ones as well, but how do we know that Acta isn’t as good as Ron Gardenhire unless he has similar talent to work with?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops
What do nearly all of them (save the big spenders like NYY, Red Sox, and Dodgers) have in common?
That’s how that should read.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with you
but the Colorado Rockies might.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 13, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing with either of you, but I wonder about something
It seems to me that when teams do worse than they’re expected to, they’re often due for some regression back to the mean, even if they’re a bad team to begin with. Now, at some point the front office will say enough is enough and fire the manager, but it takes a while to get to that point. Is it possible that manager firings tend to correspond, roughly, with a sort of “bottoming out” and that after that low-point the team simply has nowhere to go but up? Basically I’m wondering if some of these post-manager changeover surges are just regression to the mean.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about a different situation
The Rockies have all kinds of talent and were clearly underperforming their ability at the time the move was made. It’s worked out nicely for them, but I really doubt that Clint Hurdle was the reason they were underperforming the way that they were.
The Nationals have no pitching talent in the bullpen at all, they don’t have a starter that could crack the Cardinals rotation, and have only two above average defensive players on their current roster. I’m not sure how any of that is Manny Acta’s fault, just like I’m not sure how Colorado trading away their best player is Clint Hurdle’s fault.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
personality
it was reported that hurdle and tulo did not get along. Tulo has performed much better since hurdle left. The rockies bullpen (until closer huston street) has been rather questionable, and hurdle was generally too quick to pull the starters. Garret Atkins was atrocious at the plate early in the year (Ankiel level of suck….) yet hurdle repeatedly started him rather than the you and talented Ian Stewart. Generally, I agree that the manager does not play a huge role. But in this case, I would have to say that I think that Hurdle was costing them wins.
ps. I am leaving myself open to critique as I supplied no numbers to back up my claims. short on time…..
by cdb on Jul 13, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a couple of pitchers could easily crack the rotation
Todd Wellemeyer is pathetic
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Jul 13, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd Wellemeyer
currently isn’t in our rotation.
Here’s the Nats rotation.
Lannan would be the only guy I’d want right now out of their rotation, I’d take Jordan Zimmerman in the future, probably, as he is young and talented and just needs to put it together. The rest of their rotation is worse that Todd Wellemeyer. Do you think the Cardinals would win any games with 3 guys worse than Todd Wellemeyer starting every five games, coupled with the worst bullpen in all of baseball?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wellemeyer isnt?
I know he threw an inning from the pen yesterday but has he officially been removed from the rotation?
by OCCardsFan on Jul 13, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think so
he is currently announced as the starter for the 2 road game
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Jul 13, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear what you're saying
and yet, I wouldn’t be surprised if they play a bit better for Riggleman. Like I said, I know they are bad, but I don’t think they are .299 bad. I can’t help but wonder if some of the underperforming may be related to Manny’s nice guy personality. I like the guy and think he is a smart baseball guy, but his lack of fire may not be a good match for this team.
I think Manny could become a good manager, maybe even a great one, but I don’t think it was ever gonna work with THIS team.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jul 13, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason I thought Acta had been fired about 3 or 4 weeks ago...
wierd…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it had been hinted at for a while?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep,
there was an unofficial report a few weeks a go that mentioned he would be fired the following week
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jul 13, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was time for Manny to go
I know the Nats have serious issues (craptacular bullpen and their SP’s are YOUNG), but they should be playing at a better clip than .299. They find new ways to lose all the time, and I’ve got to put at least a little of that on Manny.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jul 13, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
If they give him a AAAA roster, how do they expect him to compete? I’ve yet to see any evidence that he was dragging the team down in any way. Politics, not being Bowden’s guy, the natural scapegoating of the manager that always happens in baseball are common if not logical reasons for managerial firings. The terrible team’s terrible winning percentage is not evidence of anything except that the players suck.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know the roster has a lot of holes
I just don’t think they are .299 bad. I think they should be winning more games than they are. I live in DC and read about ‘em every day, and it’s really almost comical how they find new/interesting ways to lose. Who knows, maybe its just that a large number of their players have absorbed a sort of ‘culture of losing’ mentality and it will continue w/ Riggleman and on into next year. Could be.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jul 13, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume when Acta replaces Jerry in NYN,
the mets won’t be beating the Nats heads in because of their superior roster and higher payroll, but because of their culture.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get it
The Nats roster SUCKS. I know, I read about it every day. I still think the Nats underperformed under Acta. I think he will be a good manager and is a great guy. He is just isn’t a good fit for this team.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jul 14, 2009 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Busch homerun package
Jim Edmonds walk off
Junior’s record
Ozzie’s big hit
…man, WWL is probably going to scatter these highlights. Bastards.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
McGwire's #62
It has to be shown, as a part of history.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McGwire's 70 should also be there as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the life of me I can't figure out when they're showing this
I’m giving up and going downtown.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly OT: Modified Jersey of the Day
I was at the early game yesterday, and while I really don’t want to talk about that, I did see a cub jersey that made me laugh.
Some guy was wearing a blue Soriano jersey, however where it was supposed to say “Soriano”, he had made a new name plate for it that said “Earn Your $”.
I chuckled.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jul 13, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nice
I’ve gotta say that he really got the crowd going a few times yesterday, what with his routine fly balls to the outfield and all.
It’s hard to say what annoys me most about Wrigley, but I think the fact that the entire crowd absolutely loses their collective mind anytime a Cub hits a popup, well, that is certainly up there.
by goodymobb on Jul 13, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sightlines
Besides the well-documented inebriation, I’d guess 1/3 of the seats at wrigley are under the cover of the upper deck. From down under, It’s impossible to see the ball once its 50 feet in the air, much less judge the trajectory.
I hate those covered seats, though I was happy enough to sit there Friday during the pregame rainstorm.
by baked mcbride on Jul 13, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Albert,
knowing the dangers and concerns, still hunts glory is both the “good and the bad”. Lets hope it doesn’t get “ugly”. Best case scenario is Albert beaten in the first round even though he shows well. He gets pissed and comes back on Friday to begin a relentless assault on “ALL” the records.
I don’t think the elbow is his vulnerability here. More like rib cage or wrists.
by OperaCard on Jul 13, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Albert's pursuit of glory?
Or, MLB and St. Louis ownership’s pursuit of television ratings and revenue?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 13, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert and his Agent
are playing a heady game here. They are exploring all manners and expressions of fame and legendary status, one for money, the other for a childhood explorations of “my hearts desire”. I believe I can see their purpose. It is likely DeWitt"s planning leaves him well protected and with some public sympathy concerning Albert’s future in the end. There is one variable that even DeWitt fears, and that is notoriety. Something that lingers, tarnishing his bronze statue in Cardinal Village for ages to come. If Albert becomes so monstrous in importance that DeWitt knows there is no sympathy to be had, and only the Red Sox’s Babe Ruth jinx or a Buckner “between the legs gaff” fame left to wear, he cowers and diverts his planning to include a face saving 250 million to Albert along with some supporting players. I would caution the hopeful, “never underestimate the power of the emperor”. He has a dark side.
by OperaCard on Jul 13, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Random baseball-related funny
Didn’t think this was really worthy of a fanpost and was too lazy to make a mere fanshot, so here are two funny links.
At the venerable Onion, there is a nice graphic about Pujols, split between his “strong side” and “weak side”. Example of his “weak side”: “Only the best hitter in one sport.”
At ShysterBall, Craig Calcaterra slipped in this gem about Blake Hawksworth while summarizing the first game of the double-header:
""Blake Hawksworth?" That doesn’t sound like a ballplayer. It sounds like a guest character from a four-episode arc of “Dynasty” or the male lead in some bodice-ripping romance novel or something. From the back cover: “Cattle baron Blake Hawksworth is used to getting his way. So he is baffled when Annie Jones, a feisty little hellion who steps between him and a bullet in the back, isn’t interested in becoming his latest plaything. If only he knew that Annie is really the Countess of Montevarchi — in disguise and on the run! — and that their fledgling relationship is a scandal-in-the-making!”
The laundry room book shelf at my apartment building is about 45-50% bodice rippers, and he totally nailed the style.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
Strong Side: “Makes contact every time he hits the ball”
Weak Side: “Can’t hit a home-run without the help of a big wooden bat”
That’s fantastic.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the Onion
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So funny.
Strong side: “Finds time to bond with fans by spraying screaming line drives into stands.”
Weak side: “Could show a little self-respect and not spread his legs so far apart in his stance.”
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
“Aside from the steroid report that is going to come out and tarnish all his accomplishments, he has no real weak side as a player.”
Har har.
by olddomination on Jul 13, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at this rate
Someone will spike Albert’s milkshake. It’s ridiculous, and in the bad way.
Deidre better hire some food security for when he’s on the road.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm suprised the Cards don't do that already
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 13, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't get the Onion, huh?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that particular bullet was weak.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was the only part that wasn't funny.
Sometimes the writers at the Onion think they have to throw in snarky little “whoa is it funny cause it’s true???” items like that to play “gotcha” with the audience. Sometimes it works and sometimes it falls flat.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps even funnier
Just found this while catching up on some Joe Posnanski.
His July 7th post discusses who the Royals should have kept between Luis Hernandez and Tony Peña Jr. Naturally, Joe makes a convincing case for keeping Hernandez and sending down Peña, and the Royals did the opposite. In trying to get across how bad Tony Peña Jr. really is, Joe delivers this half-paragraph:
“The thing that drives you nuts about Pena is that he’s like the Albert Pujols of bad offensive players — he de-excels (ex-excels? non-excels?) at all levels. He can’t hit, of course, and he hits for no power. But he also cannot bunt — I mean he’s an embarrassingly bad bunter. This is really hard to take. He can’t run at all. He will not allow a pitcher to walk him. You measure his bat speed by knots, and his swing is so long that Hollywood wants to release it as two different movies.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joan Wilder?
That was the end of Grogan… the man who killed my father, raped and murdered my sister, burned my ranch, shot my dog, and stole my Bible!
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 13, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ooh, she makes me hungry!
I’m glad somebody picked up the reference to Romancing The Stone. It was one of the first VHS tapes we bought when I was a kid and I can honestly say I’ve watched that movie over 60 times. (Not that it is a great accomplishment, just saying that it’s not exaggeration.)
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 14, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know
if the P-D website will be showing live coverage of the player interviews today? I thought I read somewhere (Goold?) that they’d be doing that today…
by santiagofish on Jul 13, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just found it.
It’s live on the P-D website now.
by santiagofish on Jul 13, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1. Reply fail.
2. Worst live feed ev-ah.
by santiagofish on Jul 13, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this homerun package is stupid
It’s only 3 HRs at a time. However! Last one was purely Albert’s, and they showed that beautiful night in Houston…..
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
er. ok, I didn't mean to post that.
Wrong homerun, sadly.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trib may make Cubs file bankruptcy
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I found this funny:
Such an approach would likely be taken to ensure the storied baseball team and related assets are free of liabilities
Cubs Liabilities? Does this mean that Alfonso Soriano is going to be a debt payment to some Tribune debtholder? I mean, he’s clearly a liability, both on the field and off.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im confused by this announcement
Chicago sports radio personalities are laughing at the possibility that bankruptcy would allow them some release from bad contracts like Soriano, Fukadome, and Bradley. I realize how stupid this sounds but surely that can’t happen right? If anything I would think all of their players, whether on the roster or in the system, would become free agents. Assuming bankruptcy translates to an innability to pay money owed to a party.
The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series
by Walking Underwear on Jul 13, 2009 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
no. player's union would not allow it. in similar bankruptcies, the company goes to the
union and says “can you help us out here? renegotiate the terms of the contract?” however, that works when you’re GM or United Air and having 25,000 assembly line workers or aircraft mechanics out of work when the business slashes jobs would be bad for the union too. when you have a handful of union members with jobs at stake, and the cubs aren’t actually going out of business, and even if they did, the players would find new positions elsewhere, the union has no interest in negotiating away the money its players have contracted for. the union would say, “stop printing newspapers and pay us our money.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant this as a joke...
but I’m not sure who the actual club could owe money to. Perhaps some debt related to the rooftop seating and the additional seats that were put in at Wrigley?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for many teams, it would be outstanding debt on the stadium.
i’m guessing wrigley is paid for by now. maybe just some ordinary business loans for years when the payroll and expenses exceeded revenues?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took it as buisness deals
what debts do they have owed to anyone? They haven’t built a stadium recently, but something along those lines
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Jul 13, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I don't really get that.
It’s very odd.
by sdrone on Jul 13, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WWL stop mentioning "Dan Haren" and "St. Louis" !
As in “started in” and “it would’ve been nice if he started”
/cry
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
whats the pitching rotation for this coming up weekend
is it carp, waino, and loshe/piniero?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 13, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I understood it was...
Carp, WW, Piniero, Lohse, Wellemyer. I can’t back that up, though.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No game on Thursday
Friday – Carp
Sat – WW
Sun – Lohse
Followed by Piniero and Welley.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jul 13, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh well, as Meatloaf said:
“Two out of three ain’t bad.”
I was hoping Piniero instead of Lohse since I’ve to tix to those three and I think Joel’s pitching better than Kyle right now.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 13, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo, Dan
on a different topic, I was sure hoping someone would hit it to Marshall last night
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
Although Marshall probably could handle a fly ball as well as Hoppy Soriano does. ;)
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 13, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even know they could do that
never seen a pitcher utilized that way before
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Used to be pretty common...
Okay, not common, but Whitey Herzog would do it from time to time.
by DiscoJer on Jul 13, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed the switch back
(and subsequent argument) and when Colby hit that drive to left I thought Marmol was out there. I couldn’t believe the fielder caught it (of course, he didn’t, really) till they showed the replay and I saw it was our old buddy Reed.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 13, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stupid rain
me and my buddies were in st louis for the futures game. had a really great time @ all the pre game festivities outside the stadium (definitely got a kick out of watching people do the home run derby) and then right when we sit down the rain comes in. we waited around til 4 but couldn’t stick it out any longer being that we live 3 hours away. such a shame, ever since i started playing fantasy baseball i’ve been dying to go to a futures game.
by lopey986 on Jul 13, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ankiel admits -- per rotoworld sidebar -- his shoulder still bothers him.
prepping us for a DL stint after the ASB? i promise not to be sad. jon jay? allen craig (now off the dl)?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unless D Ro is ready to play
I’m not sure this helps us anyway.
by sdrone on Jul 13, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to see how
Ank’s absence from games could do anything BUT help, by definition, as he is a sub-replacement-level player now.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 13, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel....
At this point I’m praying his problem IS the shoulder……and not anything that would be worse…..
by Timbo02 on Jul 13, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay -- is that good or bad
Albert just announced on the ESPN News Broadcast that Dave McKay isn’t throwing to him tonight. So instead of having his normal b/p pitcher, his is going with an unknown. Um, that worries me a bit since we all know the type of competitor he is.
Hopefully he goes out there, smiles a lot, and doesn’t make it to the second round. Just saying that I agree with everything Dan said.
I am so smart - S...M...R...T!
by gforce on Jul 13, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
unless albert announces he's going to stand at the plate in a kevlar vest
with a suit of medieval armor over it, not swing a bat, and not really breathe too much or with too much force, we’re gonna be nervous.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are people so nervous?
He’s not swimming the amazon or competing in the worlds strongest man contest. It’s just the home run derby.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
crosses fingers
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE'S JUST SWINGING A FUCKING BAT!!!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh?..
and what was DeRosa doing when HE got hurt?…….I’m just saying….
by Timbo02 on Jul 13, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shut him down till September. Swinging a bat is too dangerous.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 13, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like your style
BP says we have a 65% shot at making the playoffs. I for one like those odds! We shut down Albert with a phantom injury and then re-activate him just in time for October! The important part isn’t so much who replaces Albert, but that we don’t let Albert get all those pesky PAs.
In seriousness I understand the concern that people express about the derby, but I think it’s more of an irrational kind of thing. I am a bit nervous too but the more I think about it the more I am convinced that there’s not much to worry about. It just wouldn’t do for Albert to skip the derby when the All-Star game is in St. Louis, so it’s not like this was gonna be avoided.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not thinking
I’m being a fan, and I want nothing more than to turn on my DVR tonight, after back-to-back softball and wiffle ball games, and see Albert hit one out of the stadium, or maybe even through the arch
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you don't want baseball players
to play baseball out of fear of injury?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
home run derby isn't exactly baseball...
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's batting practice
I’m not concerned.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, he should be fine
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Albert's gotten
hurt it’s been on defense.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
except for the calf
either way, i side w/ the HR derby = batting practice crowd
by kalmavet on Jul 13, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True,
but there’s no running in HR Derby.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a lot more concerned
with him injuring himself on the basepaths than anything else.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or catching a Joe T. throw.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 13, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
perfect night for me?..
Albert hits ONE….about 525 ft…..and then loses in the first round…. sits down and becomes a cheerleader for the NL guys and just enjoys the evening…from the BENCH….
by Timbo02 on Jul 13, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or..
Albert wins this mother f’er with a 21 moonshot salute and uses the momentum to propel him to 30 more dingers on the back nine of the season.
by paposse on Jul 13, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
Lets enjoy watching the best player in baseball crank some homers in a glorified batting practice.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely!
Would LOVE to see that……. hey?…they guy IS the franchise and I’m happy and hoping that he does it up BIG TIME in his home stadium…..but come on folks?…..it’s not that outlandish to worry about the guy a bit…. it’s only human, and not any big deal…
My opinion at least…
by Timbo02 on Jul 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"it" may be human,
but I’m still not sold that “he” is.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm secretly hoping he has a Groucho Marx stache pasted on for the Derby
by paposse on Jul 13, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amen!
It would be unfair to the competition though. I mean, if Albert walks up there with a mustache the other guys will just give up. It’d be great cause he’d automatically win but it would be bad television, and you know Bud Selig would overreact somehow.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm hoping
that Pujols can’t rock the stache, like his teammates, due to all star publicity agreements, and will be flaunting one all second half
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not at all outlandish to worry about Pujols
But since this is a glorified batting practice, I’ll save my nail-biting for more stressful situations.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 13, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: horribly corny things Berman will spit out
Even money on “Kansas City, Here I Come!” for some moonshot.
by olddomination on Jul 13, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"That one's headed for the river!!!"
or “Here’s a souvenir for Ballpark Village!”
Wait, that 2nd one can’t happen, right?
by goodymobb on Jul 13, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What have they done with the land that some day may be Ballpark Village
but is not right now?
Does it look decent for the ASG?
www.mpgillusion.com
by ncgostl on Jul 13, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks decent
here’s what it normally looks like.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Considering that the balls will be hit to the east and south, I’m almost positive that this is will happen.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
East and South????
Isn’t the diamond oriented Northeast?
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Northeast to Southeast are the foul lines, essentially.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure?
They seem northeast to east in my mind.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I sit and think about it
I picture the right field line pointing southeast and the leftfield line pointing Northeast
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Gateway Arch is just to the left of Centerfield
and it faces directly West, so it would be directly East of the Busch III. So if CF is facing EAST, than the lines have to be at NE and SE because they are at a 90 degree angle.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
assuming that means what I said
that sounds about right
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not due north and east... I thoguht 64/40 was a due-east/west road.
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you and your embeded images
n/t
by brackenthebox on Jul 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
N/T as in Nice Try??
Is the photo not showin?
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no text
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
n/t means no text.
n/t
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
just kidding about your one-upping my gmaps link below with this much more useful image
by brackenthebox on Jul 13, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad...
lol, sorry, I was too busy in Photoshop addin’ some crappy lines and arrows to point out the orientation.
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think the RF line might run close to due east.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless
per my original comment, only foul balls will be headed West, so nobody will be hitting a homer anywhere near Kansas City, unless Superman makes the world spin backwards again….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His name
is Albert Pujols.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and albert pujols
is ridiculous.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous
I’m just glad that these reoccurring comments are helping to teach others on this blog how to spell the word correctly.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 14, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love this picture, btw
Is it yours or one you got off the web?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
web
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as we're talkin favorite photos of Busch...here's one I took.
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's really great!
sweet album.
i love the new stadium. i met someone the other day (probably in his 60s) who really didn’t like it, which struck me as odd.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks much
How can you NOT love the stadium?! Retro-classic feel and a fantastic team
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still like Busch II
more, but it’s strictly a nostalgia thing.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the new stadium plenty
and it’s a lot prettier than the old one and has better bathrooms and all that. But there was something about Busch II that you’re just not gonna see anymore. The fact that it was totally enclosed (no city skyline views) gave it kind of a Colosseum feel. It was a Colosseum for baseball, there was no distraction from the game unless you wanted to watch clouds or something. I kinda miss that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was so much louder, too
And I don’t like how many rules the new stadium has. I swear I’m told I’m doing something wrong every time I go to a game.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the P-D
the night of the great storm of aught-six, is my favorite
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love that picture
I had it as my wallpaper for the longest time (the kids still call it wallpaper, right?).
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 13, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the stadium for that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't get taken out by a dumpster I hope.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, fortunately I was not clobbered by flying dumpsters.
It was pretty crazy though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
The Jesus Effingham Christ cross is in there!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta love comin' from Northern Indiana to catch a Cards game...
I didn’t even know that Effing(ham) thing existed…kinda pops out at you when you’re on the Interstate.
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it's on the way to our cabin in IN
scared the shit out of my wife the first time she saw it around the bend on 70.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it bad that my immediate reaction was...
…and I quote…
“Jesus F*ckin’ Christ, that’s a huge God damned cross!”
I had all the right religious references, but I think they were a little improper.
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We wondered
if there’s an enormous Star of David somewhere in rural Isreal.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
I lived in Effingham for 11 years. They didnt construct the Cross until after I left though. I went back a few years ago and couldnt believe my eyes. That is quite possibly the largest Cross Ive ever seen.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 13, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a lot of family in T-town
that cross really is ginormous
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you throw up that album link
in a FanShot? It’s a lot easier to search for that stuff there in the future.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never done a Fanshot...how do I go about that?
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top right of the window
“New Fanshot”
Then click the “Link” tab and describe what you’re linking to in the subject and put the link in the link field.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, got it...
…I didn’t bother looking/reading before asking… Here it is
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's my desktop background
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 14, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
google maps to the rescue
Somewhere between north/east, and northeast/southeast
http://tinyurl.com/n8gl85
by brackenthebox on Jul 13, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BACKBACKBACKBACK
HE HIT THE ARCH WITH THAT ONE!!!!
over/under on the arch reference – 7:27 PM. Place your internet dollar wagers now.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 13, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mississippi River reference
Over/under wagering set at 7:34
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 13, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hit that one to Illinois!
haven’t read down, so sorry if this is a repeat
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just pray to God
He doesn’t try one of his oh-so-clever patented nicknames with “Pujols”.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 13, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
winnie the Pujols?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there will be Edwardsville, Alton, and Sauget mentionings.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wouldn't mind seeing this lineup regularly in the second half
Skip – LF/2B
Rasmus – CF
Pujols – 1B
Ludwick – RF
Molina – C
Derosa?/Glaus?/anyone but Thursty – 3B
Hoffpauier/whoever – 2B
P
B. Ryan – SS
ok, so this is not very scientific and there’s lot of interchangebility here, but I’d like to have these guys starting a lot
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Per Bernie w/ my own additions
Skip – LF/2B
Rasmus – CF
Pujols – 1B
Ludwick – RF
Molina – C
Derosa?/Glaus?/anyone but Thursty – 3B
Hoffpauier/whoever – 2B
P
B. Ryan – SS
Skip/DeRosa – LF
Colby – CF
Albert – 1B
Ludwick – RF
WALLACE – 3B
Yadi – C
Thursty/Hoff – 2B
Pitcher
Boog – SS
Swap DeRosa & Luddy in the OF—DeRosa is a better defender in RF. In the “double leadoff” DeRosa’s a definite RBI guy. Finally TLR’s platoons stay in place.
You can call up Craig or play Stav in the OF until DeRosa comes back.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on Jul 13, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So are we all writing off the return of Khalil???
Schumaker – LF
Rasmus – CF
Maching – 1B
Ludwick – RF
DeRosa – 3B
Molina – C
K. Greene – 2B
Pitcher
Ryan – SS
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
KGreene has bigger problems
than trying to make it back to ML. Hope the guy can get his life in order.
Also—Send Ank to DL and Duncan to Memphis
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on Jul 13, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good look at just how good Dan Haren is at Fangraphs
People who are clamoring for Halladay would do well to remember that the last time we traded for a big name pitcher, we gave up a guy that if we still had today, would make Halladay uneccessary. Trading the farm for Halladay looks good right now, but if we don’t win and wallace ends up being an all-star 3rd basement for the next 10 years, we have made a mistake
not saying i agree or disagree with getting halladay, just pointing out that the risks are huge
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 13, 2009 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
shut up shut up shut up.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha, i figured that would be people's response
still can’t watch him pitch…probably never will be able too
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 13, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who is this Dan Haren people keep talking about?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 13, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEVER SPEAK OF THIS AGAIN.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ rec, Some of the best trades and signs are the ones that don't hapen
Remember when we were trying to sign hampton?
Lots of people wanted to trade Rasmus last year, that would have sucked….
by DriverZn on Jul 13, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember the rasmus for peavy conversation?
Yikes.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WPA after fourteen weeks / All Star Break
per FanGraphs
Hitters
Team Total: -1.244 (8th in NL, 17th in majors)
Best 3: Pujols (4.832, 1st in MLB), Ludwick (1.390), Rasmus (.930)
Worst 3 (non-P): Ankiel ( -1.940, 4th worst in NL), T.Greene ( -.986), Thurston ( -.901) [PITCHERS: -2.378, Wellemeyer -.639]
Best lineup spot: 3rd (4.899); worst: 7th ( -2.149) [Thanks to Luddy, each of the first 4 spots in the order are above average. 1+2+4 = 1.143; 5+6+7+8+9 = -7.286; only Albert saves us from the abyss.]
Best WPA by (non-P) position: 1B (4.571); worst: 3B ( -2.067) [Pinch hitters + DH: -1.018]
Best single-game performance: Hoffpauir’s debut v CIN 7/3 (.468); worst: Ankiel on 6/18 v Tigers ( -.348)
Best Plate Appearance: Pujols’ Grand-slam v CIN 7/3 (.506); worst: Greene’s game-ending DP on 4/17 ( -.290)
Starters
Team Total: 1.930 (4th in NL, 8th in majors)
Best to worst: Carp (2.076, 6th in NL), Wainwright (1.707), Pineiro, Lohse, Boggs, Walters, Thompson, Welley ( -1.629, 2nd worst in NL)
Best single-game performance: Pineiro v NYN 6/23 (.550); worst: Wainwright vs PHI 5/5 ( -.419)
Relievers
Team Total: 2.855 (3rd in NL, 5th in majors)
Best to worst: Franklin (2.479, 4th in NL), McClellan, Miller, Perez, Motte, Boggs, Hawksworth, Todd, Mortensen, Welley, Reyes, Walters, Boyer, Thompson, Kinney ( -.637)
Best single-game performance: Franklin 5-out save 6/11 (.292); worst: Motte on Day 1 ( -.833)
Pitching
Who are we beating up: 8-hitters ( -2.235) & shortstops ( -1.999), plus pitchers ( -2.227)
Who is beating us up: 6-hole guys (1.143) & 3rd basemen (1.212)
Best inning – hitting: 3rd (1.248); pitching: 9th (1.709); overall: 3rd (2.645)
Worst inning – hitting: 2nd ( -3.165); pitching: 1st ( -1.123); overall: ( -1.727)
Last four weeks (3 games over .500): Batting 0.213, Starters 0.351, Relievers 0.948
Trending up: Pujols (1.792), Wainwright (1.011), Ludwick (.751), Franklin (.611), Schumaker (.565), Rasmus (.512), Pineiro (.505), McClellan (.425)
Trending down: Ankiel ( -1.135), Thompson ( -.760), Wellemeyer ( -.655), Thurston ( -.538)
Sunday’s main post by chuckb noted that the Cardinals are 25th in the majors in RAR by the bullpen, while the WPA numbers show the St. Louis relief core ranked 5th in the majors. What gives? Without digging through all of the numbers, I think it has a lot more to do with meaningful & non-meaningful runs.
RAR is trying to look at the complete picture, but is more interested in determining a pitcher’s ability to produce outs, regardless of the effect on individual wins or losses. WPA is trying to look at what did happen, instead of what should have happened given walks, strikeouts, and whatnot, then determine how events affected the game.
A programmer misspells a simple 10 character line of code that causes a financial meltdown and a score of Douglas firs fall over in a trackless forest. Which one was bigger and which one had more impact?
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 13, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
POTUS to join McCarve and Buck in the broadcast booth for ASG
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
can we leave opinions of the president off the boards?
if this was an “ugh” at McCarver or the fact that this probably means more talk, less baseball, I apologize. but i can see it getting to be an issue in the next couple days.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
you should see the comments on the P-D board regarding the POTUS throwing out the first pitch to Pujols. Wowsers.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jul 13, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet reading that sucks your brains right out
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
If they can’t leave politics out of my baseball broadcast then I can’t leave a 3 letter editorial comment about it out of my post.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if he just talks about baseball?
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Buck
was on either the Scott Van Pelt show or the Herd and said that he’s keeping it strictly throwing out the first pitch and baseball related
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do Fox's decsions
have to do with us?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if i wanted to read baseball geeks discussing politics
i’d be on 538
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 13, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really like that site.
/political discussion.
hey, btw, why have we been talking about this so much recently? i wish it could be avoided…
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame the democrats.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
/avoids saying anything.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you!!!
You Know Nothings scum!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you andrew jackson supporter.
curse you.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all about the balanced budget
and paying down the national debt!
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
zachary taylor all the way,
man. gosh.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rampant
James K Polk hate on this site is sickening.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
henry clay was better, imho.
btw, i hold a degree in political science, so these discussions are so hard not to get involved in. sigh
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Polk is my favorite prez ever
I don’t agree with all of his policies, but saying “I’m going to do these four things in my first term and not run again” and then actually doing that is awesome to me.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a matter of opinion
It’s that, while I think he should have a bit of fun, MAN are there more important things to do.
by sdrone on Jul 13, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one ever
complained when Bush threw out first pitches. Look, it’s tradition. Presidents have been doing this for a long time.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was cool that Bush threw out the first pitch
at Busch (2005 was it?) and I think it’s cool Obama is doing it now.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
If they decline, they’d be seen as stuffy. Especially Obama.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Every pres uses a teleprompter, every one gets involved in baseball.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
going away from the discussion
and down a dark road we are not supposed to travel, but I’m pretty sure Bush didn’t use a teleprompter. That is why we have all the hilarious takes of him stammering and stumbling over his thoughts, he wasn’t reading, he was actually speaking from his mind.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jul 13, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bag of worms!!!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever gone fishing?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with a bag full of worms, I should hope not
That just seems icky. I’ll take a can any day of the week.
by TheBirds on Jul 13, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I think Bush is a pretty smart guy who just suffered from a low level of dyslexia (that I do, too) and got words/thoughts out of order in his mind before he spoke which effed up a lot of his public speaking.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree with this
Everything that I’ve ever read about the guy, regardless of political affiliation, shows me that he’s a likable guy who’s also half an idiot.
I surprised anyone on this blog would be a Bush fan, considering how much we all hate people who “go from their gut” without considering a preponderance of evidence that informs for a contrary decision. That’s Bush to a T. I think his brother is much, much smarter than he is, but he’ll never get the opportunity to run for president now probably.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on guys.
this is becoming much more of a pattern than most of us would probably like. avoid the politics, please? don’t mean to sound like a broken record, nor to step on the toes of the more respected members of the community here, but i’d like my cardinals discussion sans politics.
otoh, it’s getting late and i may be taking this too seriously.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right on in your request that this stop.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 14, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obama's going to have
a hard time topping Bush. it’s one thing not to bounce it, it’s another to throw a strike
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope we can get PFX on Obama's stuff.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It'd be hilarious if he snapped off a 12-6.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's my dream
well I actually have two.
dream 1: throw the first pitch out and break off a curveball
dream 2: get to throw the first pitch out at Wrigley (hopefully against the cards), and come out with a cubs t-shirt on. grab the ball and then rip off the t-shirt to reveal my secret identity as a cards fan, to the many boos from the crowd, and then throw out the pitch (probably a curveball again)
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I heard Nixon threw a mean knuckler.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always said I'd throw a curve
if I threw out the 1st pitch.
You can’t lose. Unless it sails to the backstop, as long as it bounces at homeplate, it was a good pitch!
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I would request Molina
to get his thoughts on my 2-8 curveball. to see if there’s still hope
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
this just reads as HL doesn’t like Obama
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It reads as I'd prefer Musial throw out the first pitch
like Ted Williams, Yogi Berra and Willie Mays got to.
Instead, Musial will get his moment in the sun (FINALLY) and then get trumped by a politician…from Chicago.
Tomorrow should be all about Stan the Man. If Fox screws that up, I’ll be disappointed.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
barack obama in the broadcast booth has to do
with stan musial throwing a pitch? your intial comment was about the booth, not the pitch.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 13, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps we should leave it now.
We’ve spilled the Kool-aid for either side.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The discussion changed
and I was clearing up my opinion on the matter.
Being in the booth is worse because it further takes away from the game. Atleast someone won’t be in the booth promoting their movie but this isn’t much better.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Stan declined to throw.
He’s not exactly in great shape.
But yeah, Fox better give Stan his due.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like it's going to be nice
and last time Stan was asked to throw, he let Red do it for him, if I recall correctly.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't I read somewhere that they had adverts obscuring the cardinals retired numbers in LF?
Some bullshit, that.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then it should be all our living HOF'ers
Honestly, I can’t even remember the last time a politician threw out the 1st pitch at the ASG. I think it might have been GHWB when he was VP.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't president bush
throw it out once?
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He threw after 9/11, right?
and also at some Rangers games I think. Not sure if he did the ASG.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and he threw out the pitch to open the Nats stadium.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1st pitch in the 2001 WS
@ Yankee Stadium was a perfect strike. Probably the most famous presidential first pitch.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, okay.
he probably didn’t then. i must’ve saw the nats’ stadium open and the game after 9/11.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He definitely pitched somewhere during the '04 campaign.
I remember watching his pitch side-by-side with Kerry’s at Fenway. It wasn’t a pretty comparison.
by notmorganfreeman on Jul 13, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are
all going to be out there.
From all I have heard, the pregame sounds really, really cool.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least he's a Sox fan?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, I agree
politicians should stay away from throwing baseballs
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no comment
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just thought you misspelled Pujols
and was trying to figure out how we would play the game and be in the booth…
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols will hit most HRs
and lose…again.
He’s done that twice, right? Milwaukee and San Francisco.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Josh Hamilton
hit 28 I think in one round, and lost
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols
is going to hit 30 in the first round, go watch video of his pitcher and hit some balls off a tee, and then hit 35 the next round, and then…how many rounds are there again?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta make those adjustments between rounds.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 13, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should have campaigned to be his BP pitcher
my 68/73 mph fastball is just what he needs.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looking forward to it!
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No chance.
Josh Hamilton had a situation going that even he didn’t understand. His pitcher was throwing so slow, he was using a softball wrist pop or bounce that wouldn’t quite. In the finals, the old man that was throwing tired and mysteriously upped his tempo by at least 10 mph… nothing but line drives. He completely lost his rhythm. They had a exhibition in SF between Worth and Easton Slow pitch all stars this year. One lefty got up and splashed five straight balls into the water. One of the Righty’s hit it out of the stadium to left. Slow pitch style. If you cut the speed down enough to create ark, it isn’t that tough. Thats where the 28 came from, and why they disappeared for the money.
by OperaCard on Jul 13, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blasphemy!
you dare doubt Pujols!
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols derby pitcher revealed to be Amaury Marti.
At the last out of the final round they are planning to switch places, and Albert is going to throw one ball to Marti, who will hit it with a slice that allows it to curve over the outfield, reverse direction, make its way up the street and destroy Ryan Braun’s hotel room. Firefighters will discover the ball, charred but still recognizable inside the burned-out penthouse with a message attached, reading “considérese sustituido”- consider yourself deputized.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 13, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 9 recs
as a matter of curiosity,
are we going to have a home run derby “game” thread? i’m not really sure what the point of it would be—
omg, he hit that like 500 feet, roflcopter!!!
—so i’m not quite sure why i’m asking. it just seemed like it would be a cool place to discuss the players and “spend time” with the community on veb. like i said, not sure if it’s a good idea.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
never mind.
i’m assuming now that this is the thread we’ll do that in.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we will talk about how
Tony would have mis-managed the derby, how welleymeyer should be throwing the pitches to albert, how ankiel would have been out on 10 straight pitches, and how nice it is not to see thurston for a day.
by Evilfrog on Jul 13, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction
how ankiel would have been out on 10 straight pitches swung through 10 straight high fastballs at BP speed while cursing under his breath after each one….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
game threads are frequently OT anyway
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 13, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anybody in Springfield, IL interested in a good show Saturday?
sorry, I don’t know how to make it smaller.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's not what she said?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'm sure she'd know how.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can only hope
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jul 13, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup
per Bernie on the twitters:
1. Nelson Cruz, Texas
2. Prince Fielder, Milwaukee
3. Brandon Inge, Detroit
4. Adrian Gonzalez, San Diego
5. Carlos Pena, Tampa Bay
6. Ryan Howard, Philadelphia
7. Joe Mauer, Minnesota
8. Albert Pujols, Cardinals
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So sometime around 11 Pujols will actually bat?
ESPN has it on my guide as a 2 hour program. These things are never that quick.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd imagine
the first round will take an hour and a half.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, this article really surprised me.
TLR needs to calm down. TLR and Al in a mini feud? I don’t believe it.
by TheBirds on Jul 13, 2009 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love it.
Just for its ridiculousness.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I feel like I need some
Daily Show type footage of Al walking in from the bullpen or missing a break towards first base on a ball hit to the right side of the infield. I’m sure that this happened and probably happened more than once.
I think that Yadi thought that the ball had been called an infield fly on the play when it had not. In that case, he would have been called out regardless. I also think that he was frustrated for not coming through in the situation. These things happen. Both guys need to calm down.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Al can certainly be a hypocrite
I think he was probably more right than wrong in this case, but I agree this is a stupid thing to have drag on any longer.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 13, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem that I have with Al
is that he’s really great about doling out the criticism, but not so great about praising great play. See Rasmus, Colby from this year, and Ryan, Brendan from 2007. I don’t want this to devolve into a situation like what happened with the Cubs a few years back with Carey and Stone, and I feel like it could with Hungo simply because he’s headstrong and stubborn.
Even if he’s right, Al needs to realize that he wouldn’t have a job if it weren’t for the ball club, and that he needs to temper himself a bit when chastising veteran players like Molina who deserve the benefit of the doubt occasionally. I’m not saying what Molina did was right, but does calling him out from the broadcast booth make the play any more tolerable? This isn’t Little League Al, get over it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 13, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i definitely agree.
it’s become really hard to listen to al when he gets on his little “get off my lawn” trips. he seems to be incessantly negative towards certain players and only tempers his points (or lack thereof) after a period of extraordinary play by said individuals. he’s come around on colby, i hope, as lately he’s been much more positive towards razzums on a general level—which is good, because for a while there i thought al was beyond saving. not that he’s not in other areas, but that’s a different discussion.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 14, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting article by posnanski and bill james
over at SI today, talking about the all star game, and exhibitions in general… Poz takes on the idea of Albert getting hurt in the HR derby:
Joe: Funny you should say that. I’ve been in St. Louis for a couple of days, and I’ve already run into a handful of people who are worried — legitimately worried — that Albert Pujols will ruin his swing by participating in the home run derby. It’s actually hilarious if you think about. During the season we expect our favorite players to sacrifice their bodies in the most outrageous ways. Day game after a night game? Get in there! Catcher blocking home plate? Well, try to score anyway! Bases loaded? Well, turn up that fastball a little bit! We don’t want them to get hurt or out of sync, of course, but we don’t think much about it.
But as soon as it comes to an exhibition — an All-Star Game, the World Baseball Classic, exhibition football games — suddenly we’re scared to death. We don’t want these same athletes to leave their homes. Stay in bed. Put on a sweater. Make sure you’re wearing sunscreen.
the end of every half inning IS a turning point. -Evilfrog
by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2009 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Abreu really put the fear into everyone.
I can’t get behind all the paranoia, it’s just one day and I don’t remember anyone really getting injured from it.
by TheBirds on Jul 13, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
As DanUp noted, the reason the guys who were in the Derby in the past and had “bad” second halves is because they were playing out of their effing minds in the first half and regressed back to the players they actually were in the second half, for the most part.
Not very difficult to explain, but it probably wouldn’t sell very many papers.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 13, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Braun is SUCH a douche...
…just watching him on MLB Network makes me want to slash his tires.
by vexedtechie on Jul 13, 2009 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Could Baseball Tonight...
not go on location for the All-Star festivities?
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 13, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HR Derby Thread.
Is there going to be one or are we just going to overflow the hell out of this one?
by Ghostrider520 on Jul 13, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I second this notion, no game tonight, we need a HR Derby Thread
Dick and Dunk, the answer to your pitcher's problems...
by The_teague on Jul 13, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe someone should do a fanpost.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 13, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made one here
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Jul 13, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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