Joel Pineiro pitches old enough to vote for Rutherford Hayes
What's there to say about Joel Pineiro? His success is consistent with the way he's pitched—the results he's gotten are commensurate with the things he's done—but the things he's doing are unimaginable over the course of an entire season. Strikeouts per nine: 3.75; strikeouts to walks: 4.0. That just doesn't look like something a major league pitcher can do now. I have a list, hot off the Baseball-Reference presses: here are the last ten seasons in which a starting pitcher has struck out fewer than four batters a game and had a K:BB of more than four:
- Carlos Silva 2005 (3.39, 7.89)
- Bob Tewksbury 1992 (3.52, 4.55)
- La Marr Hoyt 1985 (3.55, 4.15)
- (I think you should take a breath here, because time travel can be disconcerting the first time you do it.)
- Babe Adams 1920 (2.87, 4.67)
- Babe Adams 1919 (3.14, 4.00)
- Christy Mathewson 1913 (2.74, 4.43)
- Addie Joss 1908 (3.60, 4.33)
- Deacon Phillippe 1903 (3.83, 4.24)
- Jesse Tannehill 1902 (3.90, 4.00)
- Cy Young 1901 (3.83, 4.27)
Of all the ways to become a first-rank pitcher, this is obviously the rarest and the most difficult to maintain; it is pitching without a margin for error, without any buffer for poor ball-in-play luck. Even Greg Maddux got that half a walk per nine innings tacked back on eventually, and he had the added benefit of being able to strike batters out when absolutely necessary.
I don't believe that this new Joel Pineiro is workable in the long term—it's astonishing that he's even doing it in the medium term. He is a new pitcher, and probably a good one, but even Tewk, the ultimate late control bloomer, could only keep his walk rate this low for a year or too. But if he gets out of the season with his numbers looking something like this I don't envy John Mozeliak at all.
#
How much better does this offense look with Ryan Ludwick producing in the middle of it? Up to now Albert Pujols has stood on the bases after driving in runs more or less because of societal pressure to conform; to suddenly have that .458 OBP put to good use on occasion is like, uh, trading for a leadoff man without getting rid of anybody, it certainly is. It's like—and I hope La Russa sees this, gets intrigued with the arbitrary name of the concept, and doesn't touch the lineup any more, save for plugging in the prodigal outfielders as necessary—having three leadoff hitters!
Of course, that late inning rally gets stomped out and we feel a lot worse about the offense. This team getting confounded by Manny Parra, whose walks-to-Pineiro's-walks ratio is well over five, is just about the least surprising thing there is, but it was good to see the Cardinals finally taking advantage of second base, perhaps the most obvious and least utilized platoon this side of Strat-o-Matic baseball. Skip Schumaker still can't hit lefties, and getting his glove off the field—which is difficult in a logistical sense, because it's made of solid iron—is additional incentive to pick his spots, namely the ones in which he has an OBP of .379.
Any second baseman, even Joe Thurston, is going to be an improvement on both offense and defense against left-handed pitchers. Which is why it's been so frustrating, even more frustrating than the thirteen pitchers, for me, to see Schumaker start against the following pitchers:
- Mike Hampton
- Wandy Rodriguez
- Zach Duke
- Barry Zito (twice!)
- Cliff Lee (???)
- Johan Santana (in left field!)
- Glen Perkins
- Francisco Liriano
4 recs |
259 comments
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Comments
And there it is:
The Greatest Headline in the History of the Internets.
’grats, Dan.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 7:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Everyone Help the Cow
Celebrate Cow Appreciation Day! by going to Chic-fil-A dressed as a Cow and receive free chicken!
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 10, 2009 7:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's all in the 'stache
I’m glad for him the good guys scored 5 in the 8th or he might have gone postal picking up his 10th loss.
Our pitchers must cringe when they realize their next start will be against a lefty.
by paposse on Jul 10, 2009 8:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mustachioed
That word is something I have been trying to work into normal conversation for years, and now I can finally do it.
The mustachioed Joel Pineiro was amazing yesterday. He is such an improvement over the non-mustachioed burden on the rotation that he was last year.
I want to send the Cardinals pitching staff some mustache wax and get some handlebars going for the second half of the season.
by graffin on Jul 10, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious what the rule is on the mustache...
does Welley have to shave his and start over with the poor performance the other day? Do you keep it growing as long as you make a quality start? If it’s a superstition thing I think Welley has to shave his…
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm perplexed by C Dunc's sudden clean-shave
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did that
earlier this season, too.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect girlfriend
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the suspicion
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought azru said there was a guy in his office whose sister was
dating him — i think i got the details wrong, but it was something about dunc’s gf being related to a coworker.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 10, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dating the sister/cousin of a co-worker
something like that. . .they got defensive about his shoddy defense in a hurry.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 10, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will pay extra money for a ticket to a game with Cards pitchers in handlebars
by Schnurdog on Jul 10, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pay up!
Josh Kinney needs some pocket change!
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a handlebar
According to the AMI ( American Mustache Institute), that is a horseshoe mustache.
http://www.americanmustacheinstitute.org/MustacheStyles.aspx
by graffin on Jul 10, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's an "American Mustache Institute"?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 10, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
It’s there just in case you needed proof that this is the best damn country on Earth.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
of course
We can’t have our citizens running amok with random mustaches! There must be rules, and a governing body to set guidelines.
by graffin on Jul 10, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they actually are planning something for the All Star Game
It’s on their facebook or something.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected
thanks AMI for educating the world
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is this performance considered unsustainable?
I assume if he has found some magic formula then he can keep doing it. Is the logic that batters will adjust or that this type of line is simply not achievable in the long run like Dimaggio’s hit streak? On the BABIP issue, if he is getting people to bang the ball into the dirt on every at-bat shouldn’t his BABIP be lower generally. I would think that at this extreme of sinkerballing that BABIP would be lower.
He would need to do it for a few more months before I think this is the new Piniero, but unless he gets hurt, then I don’t see why he can’t keep this up.
Just win
by The Duke on Jul 10, 2009 8:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its not that his BABIP is out of line...
…in fact, at .290, it’s just about average. What is making him so good is that his HR/FB ratio is 3.5% – 2nd in the majors behind Zach Grienke. League average is ~10%. In addition, his GB/FB ratio is 2.73, also first in the majors. So not only is he allowing the fewest FB of any pitcher, those FBs are flying out at the 2nd lowest rate.
It is up for question just how sustainable a 2.73 GB/FB ratio is (he is miles ahead of the rest of the ML there), but even so that 3.5% HR/FB is more extreme than Mountain Dew flavored Doritos.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well someone has to lead the league in fewest FB
Im glad that the pine man has answered the call.
by brindled on Jul 10, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely. Obviously not upset about it.
But he doesn’t just lead the league – he blows it away. His 2.73 GB/FB is 3.7 standard deviations from the 1.25 mean. Only 7 of 90 qualified starters crack a 2:1 ratio, with the 2nd place guy (Aaron Cook) at 2.28.
For you other nerds out there, his 3.5% HR/FB is 1.9 stdev from the mean of 10.0%.
The Great Jo-el, the angels did say
Was to certain poor Brewers in a field as they played
In a field where they played and no one went deep
On a hot summer’s day one game short of a sweep
Jo-el, Jo-el, Jo-el, Jo-el
Born is the King of Sinkerball Hell
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 14 recs
If Brandon Webb were not injured
then his numbers wouldn’t seem so different from another sinker baller. Plus Webb’s HR numbers are a little tainted by his home park.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1692&position=P#advanced
by enoscountry on Jul 10, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see Joel turn into Brandon Webb vHealthyv2.0...
But I just don’t see how he can maintain these rates. Webb’s career K/9 is >7 and even with after a hefty Chase Field discount >10% of his flyballs went for HRs. I’m not saying he is going back to our old Pinata with his new sinker, but I don’t think we can expect him to keep turning back the clock to 1968.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bless you
for finally finding an awesome way to fit in a Noel/Joel pun.
Also, those groundball/flyball/homerun ratios are pretty outstanding. He’s basically the Albert Pujols of getting balls to stay on the damn ground or not do anything if they don’t.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know as sports fans, and especially baseball fans,
we can’t help it, but I think that this is very much a case of “Don’t look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth”
by cardfanndeboonies on Jul 10, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe someone did the analysis...
previously, and even if you increased his HR/FB% to the league avg. it wouldn’t effect his numbers that greatly. Perhaps the very low FB% is unsustainable, but he is an extreme GB pitcher with a VERY heavy sinker. Not only is this pitch hard to hit into the air, but it’s even harder to hit a line drive off of. To me the big concern is that he loses what has been pinpoint accuracy and/or his sinker starts to level off.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the question
I think if he can keep hitting the strike zone, he’ll just keep going. And i love how few pithces he uses to do it.
Just win
by The Duke on Jul 10, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mozeliak and Pineiro
If I am Mozeliak, and if Pineiro keeps this up (Which is the bigger “if” by the way? That I transmogrify into Mozeliak, or Pineiro keeps this up?). . . I would show him a list of statistics from Woody Williams, Jeff Suppan, Braden Looper, and Jeff Weaver in their last year in St. Louis, then their following year with a different club, offer him about 60% of market value and not blink.
BUT!!!!!
Of course, this would probably offend Joel, considering Lohse got 4 years and 40 million for having something like half the season Pineiro is looking to have. . .
Damn that Lohse deal.
by EddieHarsch on Jul 10, 2009 8:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still like the Lohse deal
if he hadn’t hit by a pitch he would still be pitching and at this time I want him to replace Welly and not Thompson in the rotation but either way he hasn’t been bad and has been consistent. Pineiro has been good before and then downright horrid (as a reliever mainly), and last year was average at best. I like having a guy that can be that consistent middle man and that is what I think Lohse is. That doesn’t mean I don’t like having Pineiro too and I like his signing after 07 as well.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jul 10, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawksworth to the Rotation
Personally, I’d rather see Wellemeyer and Thompson both replaced when Lohse come back.
HL brought up the discussion of replacing Wellemeyer with one of the minor league starters at Future Redbirds.
Wellemeyer 2009 FIP in 100 IP: 4.90
Thompson 2009 FIP in 53 IP: 5.07
Walters MLE FIP in 73.2 IP: 4.10
Mortensen MLE FIP in 92 IP: 5.25
Ottavino MLE FIP in 77.1 IP: 5.40
Boggs MLE FIP in 55 IP: 5.03
Hawksworth MLE FIP in 62.1 IP: 4.00
MacLane MLE FIP in 96.1 IP: 4.81
Hawksworth has also, at AAA, posted great K/BB ratios (this year) and limited the opponents’ hit totals. And he’s already on the active 25 man roster.
by pitchingandefense on Jul 10, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seems logical enough to me
which is why we probably won’t see it. I agree though, we have “at least as serviceable” alternatives to Welle and Thompson in-house.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What could it hurt to try?
Give Hawk a few trips through the rotation and let Welly regroup for a couple weeks. If Hawk performs better than Welly has to this point (which I think he’s very capable of), then you have Welly in reserve as your extra starter in case of injury.
Additionally, if Hawk performs well, you can pencil him in as the fifth starter in 2010, and potentially answers a question for next season.
by pitchingandefense on Jul 10, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are on the same page
but again, I just don’t see it happening.
I think the logic is, look, you know what you have in Welley and even though he supposedly “turned a corner” or “found something in his mechanics” prior to this last blow-up, there’s really nothing to be optimistic about with him.
Ditto Thompson, who despite his boyish features, has been here forever. I think you know him well enough too.
It certainly can’t hurt anything, as it’s very unlikely that pretty much anyone (in particular Hawk or Boggs) couldn’t at least go 5-6 innings while coughing up 4-5 runs.
If they’re against removing the Thompson/Welley abomination, I would at least like to see a shorter leash (which, to TLR’s credit, he’s shown lately) when a starter looks horrendous early. I mean, we’ve got 36 pitchers or something…and we basically only use Franklin, Motte, Miller (usually too early), and KMac.
There’s no reason not to plan to split the innings when Welley/Thompson is slated to start. You could use the same approach with one of the other alternatives (Hawk, Boggs, et al.)…i.e., you’d basically tell one of your long guys (probably KMac) to be ready to go 2-3 innings every 5th day and just piece together several extended appearances for your relievers in those games.
There’s nothing in the rulebook that says you can’t use your relievers for multiple hitters (or, god forbid, multiple innings). I think one of the things that frustrates fans the most about TLR is that he seems to have these throwaway days where every decision he makes at least on the surface appears to NOT be in the interest of winning that day’s game.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wellemeyer in many metrics
has either been the worst or in the worst 10 pitchers in all of Major League Baseball this year.
As I said in my prompt: Is there no pitcher in our entire system that can be better than THE WORST PITCHER IN BASEBALL?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone else feel like...
KMac will have the same collapse this season as last? He has pitched an awful lot, and often for multiple innings.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think a collapse is predictable based on innings.
But his results do not match his peripherals. His walk rate is 150% of his walk rate last season yet his ERA is more than a run lower. He is giving up fewer hits, but that’s almost entirely a result of depressed BABIP. He could easily explode at any moment.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 10, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BLASPHEMY!
or, god forbid, multiple innings
HOW DARE YOU!
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the Lohse deal
Isn’t this year or even next year, it’s 3 years from now.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 10, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he hadn’t hit by a pitch he would still be pitching and at this time I want him to replace Welly and not Thompson in the rotation but either way he hasn’t been bad and has been consistent.
That’s not really the point though. Lohse is now under contract for 3 more years after this, he’s on the wrong side of 30, and his contract (which they signed before allowing the market to play out) would have been a hindrance to signing Lowe if they pursued that (which I’m not sure they did one way or the other). So yes, Kyle Lohse is a decent pitcher and yes he would certainly help…but that does not mean the contract was a good one.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pineiro
Man, he’s somethin’ else. A lot of the time, he’s had great games and the offense hasn’t been able to back him up, or he and the offense both struggle. I’m not sure what to think on if Pineiro will be back after this season or not, but I’d rather have Joel than Welly.
TLR: Please bench DunKan and AnKiel!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I propose new nickname: "Dead ball" Pineiro
‘cause this stuff he’s doing is just WACKED.
by sdrone on Jul 10, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or a name that hearkens back to the Jazz Age
like F. Scott Piniero?
by mattyp on Jul 10, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
both good ideas
but I’m stuck on a Tinkerbell-variant of Sinkerbell, or something close.
I must admit that it is not of the caliber of “Colby-wan”, which leads me to my only question from yesterday, would anyone besides Tony LaRussa ever pinch hit a backup catcher for a Jedi?
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jul 10, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sinkerbell is pretty good.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but I think he plans on
riding piggyback on Colby while forcing him to run through a swamp and levitate an airplane during the ASB, just to keep his competitive fires burning.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 10, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree about Skip starting against LHP
He should never start at 2B against a lefty. But he was/is a better option than either Duncan or Ankiel so therefore he should have been starting in LF against LHP over either of the auto-outs. With the reoccurring Infection we do now have a better option…but while the Infection was quarantined in MEM, Skip was our best LF option. Unfortunately, TLR kept running Ank and Dunc or both (oh! the horror!) out there against LHP because “Skip is a 2B now, damnit!”
by indakind on Jul 10, 2009 9:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1, good point
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jul 10, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Colby?
I dont’ think Colby is exempt from getting the “don’t play against lefties” argument. He’s got a .508 OPS against lefties….granted we don’t have much better options in CF (it’s not like Ank’s OPS aginst lefties is much higher), but that OPS is worse than Skip’s.
by woodfeld on Jul 10, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
but you take the defense. Colby always brings that to the table at least. Plus, I’ve gotta believe that as he matures in the bigs, he’ll be alright against the lefties (his minor league splits vs. LH weren’t too bad, were they?).
He’s an integral part of this club’s present and future and he’s not a guy you need to get into the habit of platooning just because he bats from the left side. Move him around in the lineup vs. lefties maybe, but he needs to be in there, IMO.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
Oh I definitely agree that he’s the best option we have (defense and still young enough to improve on his ability to hit lefties), but still a .508 OPS is as bad as it gets.
by woodfeld on Jul 10, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BABIP!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't mean much
when those balls are weak ground balls or infield pop-ups.
As the season goes on I’m sure Rasmus will get more PAs from lefties. But he is still subject to being pinch hit for in key situations. (like yesterday).
by Evilfrog on Jul 10, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is handedness LD/FB/GB data out?
Or is that anecdotal?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sooner?
seriously this is a bullshit argument- unless you have actual evidence, which you don’t, there is plenty of evidence arrayed against you from his BABIP to his minor league splits, plus his fantastic defense. Who exactly would you platoon him with anyway?
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 10, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I say he should be platooned?
I said he should be subjected to pinched hit for in key situations. Like yesterdays game. When it is 1-1 in the 8th, against your division rival, when the win is the difference between being tied for 1st or being two games up. I didn’t even say he should always be pinched hit for in key situations. Just that he will be subject to it.
Data has to come from watching him play for this half season. I haven’t figured out where to find his LD% FB% and GB% vs Left handers. But i would be completely surprised if he LD% was even within a percentage point of his LD% against righters. He is strikes out at a 20.63% rate against lefties compared to a 16.6% rate against right handers. That at least supports that he sees RHP better.
Major League pitchers are better than minor League pitchers. And you don’t have to deal with LOOGYs in the minor leagues. These guys do one thing and one thing well, get left handed batters out.
As far as Defense goes give be 2 innings of Ankiel in center and a 1 run lead while on the road any day instead of 2 innings of Rasmus and a tie game. The run is way more important at that point in the game.
Im not suggesting he should be platooned. Just that there is no reason to be upset if he gets pinched hit for in key situations or rests for a game here and there if he hasn’t had any off days in awhile.
by Evilfrog on Jul 10, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody doubts he's better against RHP
he’s one of the best hitters in the league against righties. I just don’t believe his ineptness against lefties will continue and he should be given the chance to play his way out of it.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Furthermore
It’s not like anybody is gonna play better outfield defense than Colby in late innings.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention the fact that - unless he's pinch hit for in the bottom of the ninth -
he is the only ++ CF we have. i’d rather take a chance on him against a leftie and save our pinch hitters for other less competent lefties with less defensive skill.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 10, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
again
I’d rather have the lead with the negative defense on the road than be tied with the plus defense. The one maybe two CF plays that get made in the next 6 outs are far less important than the run.
If we are talking a whole game of defense I would rather have Rasmus out there than Ankiel. Or if we are already up I’d rather have Rasmus than Ankiel. But given the situation last night Im okay with the PH.
As long as we are not talking PHing Ludwick with Ryan.
by Evilfrog on Jul 10, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW...
I agree. I’m not sure that I would always PH Larue over taking a chance with Raz, but I get your point.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to get involved in the actual discussion
but the splits for previous years are available on minorleaguesplits.com
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 10, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like people on this site have been clamoring for months,
for a good RH bat to come off the bench to PH for our lefties in the late innings. Colby is subject to this, but I’d still argue he is less so because he is likely to be better than Jason LaRue (259/298/352/650) against them.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 10, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Including defense blah!
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jul 10, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Every epoch dreams its successor" - Jules Michelet
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 10, 2009 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
viva!
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the apple hurlers all grew facial hair
so the batters swing would be cooling on their mustaches.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Hurl your best apple, hurler!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I didn't realize how sinister he looks in this photo.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which one?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is that demonry?
Everyone flee!!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jul 10, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT- ASG FanPost?
I’ve been thinking about putting up a FanPost asking which of us are going to the various ASG events, plans for getting into and out of downtown, and generally reveling in the first StL ASG in 40-something years.
I’m not sure if this is FanPost worthy, or if the mods/editors/cat wranglers have something planned for the front page already.
Interest?
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2009 9:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stats?
Can you back that up with 6 paragraphs and no less than 7 line graphs and/or venn diagrams?
by paposse on Jul 10, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prolly not
but Google Maps might be involved.
/hangs head.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking to my dad last night
About the last ASG in Saint Louis. He was telling me how it was well over 100 degree’s that day and was unbearably hot. He was working for the post office than delivering stuff to the Stadium. He was telling me as how hot it was outside the stadium but it was 10x worst inside the stadium. Like walking through a wall of fire into hell. He was telling me how everyone was passing out from heat.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just put up the weather link for the ASG
Forecast says… thunderstorms! That’ll be interesting.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to FanFest today.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm FanFesting on Saturday
and, sigh, teaching a freakin’ night class during the Derby.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm meeting a robot for the futures game Sunday
and still hoping for derby tix. I want no part of the actual game, though.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're interested, I have a buddy trying to get rid of 2 Derby tix.
The seats are in LF bleachers, which I would think would be prime seating for the HR Derby.
I’m pretty sure he has them on eBay to see what they bring, but he’s fine going if he doesn’t like the bids.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not paying more than face value
out of principle and poorness.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't blame you.
Those things are obscenely expensive.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had a chance to
get Futures tickets, but was broke at the time. Should’ve borrowed some money from someone, dammit.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's futures game...
tickets all over ebay, and cheap.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have two and wont be able to go, if youre interested
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 10, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's still tons of tickets available.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 10, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The tickets get you into the oldltimers game
later too but that’s not my cup of tea.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 10, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the hosts are Mike & Mike from ESPN
and Agent Walker from the last season of 24 will be playing
by ubeddie on Jul 10, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have plans now.
I’m having my mom – and people – over for dinner for her birthday, which is Sunday.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If possible, let me know about autographs
I don’t know if the players at FanFest will sign anything or just the official program. I found some baseball cards from 1970 and it would be cool to have Killebrew and Jenkins sign their cards.
by ubeddie on Jul 10, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll try and find out.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading about
FanFest on stltoday.com. Found this quote:
Chicago Cubs fans will not want to miss an exhibit of Major League Baseball awards and trophies. It will be their only chance to see a World Series trophy in this lifetime.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jul 10, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have two tickets to AS Sunday with the Futures Game
if anyone is interested. Make an offer. Great Seats!
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 10, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one's taken it yet?
[surprised] I saw a lot of e-mail addresses there. Not in your spam filter?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I posted my email addy in the fanpost
and from FirsttoThird was the only one to respond. I’ll send the others an email to see if they are interested. good thinkin, yadi.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 10, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This might be a stupid question
But buying tickets to All-Star Sunday does not get you into FanFest, right?
by mysterui on Jul 10, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can.
depends on the package.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not, then.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Not a single that’s what… for this comment? I’m disappointed.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was on a tee, too.
I just sat there, watching it for like five minutes after I posted it… Just waiting… and waiting.
Eventually, I cried and questioned all of humanity.
Then I had a bacon sandwich and all was right.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jul 11, 2009 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
Pretty sure FanFest is a separate event, but maybe there’s a special package or something.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
only with the ticket strip
which includes a ticket to any date of FanFest, Sunday’s futures game, Monday HR derby and Tuesday All star game.
by ubeddie on Jul 10, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
Say I was sitting in Row 1 of Section 270 for the Home Run Derby, does anyone (hypothetically speaking of course) happen to know whether seats 1-4 would be more towards the fair territory section or more towards foul ground?
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 10, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
T-Shirt Designing Contest
So I put up a fanpost today for a VEB T-Shirt contest. I figured we are due for a new one. I hope you guys even put up a half assed effort for a design. I would like to have too many choices than just a few.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pineiro if he can keep it up
Is going to get paid this offseason. Lohse’s contract will be the matching point for him. Honestly their is no good Free Agent pitchers this year, The ones that are good have serious health concerns. Pineiro is about the only good and healthy pitcher with a sub 4.0 FIP this year that is going to be a free agent. Worst part is he might not even be a Type B Free Agent cause of all these loses.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he keeps it up
the wins will come and I can see him being a Type A.
by el_hombre on Jul 10, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he will not be a Type A
SP: Total games (total starts + 0.5 * total relief appearances), IP, Wins, W-L Percentage, ERA, Strikeouts for Elias Ranking
But Wellemeyer is already a Type B, Too bad he sucks so bad we can’t offer him arbitration
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome resource.
Thanks for posting. I’d been looking for something like that.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that sucks
thanks for that forumla and site…Strikeouts and win loss factor in way to much. What is the point of type A free agents if teams with poor win/loss can not produce type A SP
by el_hombre on Jul 10, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andy Pettitte
was .500 last year and go it so I was kinda going off that…
by el_hombre on Jul 10, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im confussed by your link
it says that as of 6/29/09 that Luddy is a Type A but Carl Crawford is a B?
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Jul 10, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that the Elias Rankings
are weird conglomerations of certain statistics not necessarily a direct reflection of their actual baseball value.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 10, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, It is compiled up of more than one season
Not just the current one
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's the next Carlos Silva!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like defense and last night's Boog highlights are
. Man I like this guy’s range and his arm is better than I thought.
by sdrone on Jul 10, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's been tremendous
He’s at his ceiling for me (.300/.340/.400) with +10 defense but it’s easy to say that and another thing entirely to realize how awesome a defender that is.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jul 10, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody watch the game?
It seems to me that 19 ground balls is a whole lot. How did our infield do…especially Mr. Brendan Ryan? I feel like he is developing into a real nice SS option for a couple more years.
by Schnurdog on Jul 10, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Look at the highlights on stlcardinals.com
Ryan is covering half of left field.
by sdrone on Jul 10, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
California originally?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've tried to figure it out..
…Best I can come up with is friends and family from childhood. Not by any means a VeB or Cardinals creation.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard he has a rep
For eating his boogers so that is how he got his name
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone posted earlier this year
that his parents thought he looked like Boog Powell.
by sdrone on Jul 10, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was liam
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/4/16/840208/game-10-open-thread-april-16-2009#14278653
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom of the rotation
Isn’t the idea of a decent farm system (which we seem to have now) that, at least, the #4 and #5 starters are provided for free? (Free = league minimum). Then you can pay for better guys on the top half, if you can’t get lucky enough/draft high enough/be skilled enough to produce them?
If I am Mo, I offer Pinero arbitration (if he is a Type A or B), and then pretend he doesn’t exist. If we were not willing to trade for Peavy because that gives us too many long-term pitching contracts, how can we even think about Joel?
Yes, he has performed like a good pitcher for half a year, and it may be somewhat sustainable…
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-pinerios-newfound-groundball-success-sustainable/
But, with the team budget that we have, it makes a lot more sense to let the pitchers in Memphis take Wellemeyer and PInero’s places, and try to get some infielders besides Pujols that are above replacement level.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Jul 10, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind Pineiro back at a reasonable price
But I’m with you on not breaking the bank. And go ahead and let Welly go.
Look at the numbers I posted in the “Mozeliak and Pineiro” discussion above. I think Hawksworth deserves a shot right now to replace Welly.
I don’t get into a bidding war for Pineiro though. Then you take a hard look at Garcia and Hawk for the #4 and #5 spots next year if there is no affordable #4 out there. And, as you pointed out, use your dollars on offense.
by pitchingandefense on Jul 10, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can bet Welly's
name is out there. His medical history is well known though. He had a good outing when he freed up his arm a little. I think it hurts him when he does. Joel won’t find any trouble finding a job. It won’t be here. Just my opinion.
by OperaCard on Jul 10, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lboros who?
not sure I’ve posted all year – but wow – DanUp with a F-ing home run every time out. Just solid.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Jul 10, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok...I'm might take some heat for this.
I’ve been thinking recently about Wallace and the possibility of trading him IF his defense really is AWFUL. Is there a possibility we could trade him for another young 3B prospect with defence capabilities? I don’t know that one exists, but I was thinking someone like Mat Gamel…however he is a) in the same division and b) not on an AL team where Wallace really fits. I also thought of Alex Gordon, but he has already wasted a couple of cost controlled years. Any thoughts?
by Schnurdog on Jul 10, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There's no chance of a 3B for 3B swap
Because think of the incentives… the other team would know that the reason that we’re trading Wallace is because of his defense deficiencies, so they would only send us back another player with some sort of deficiency as well, and then it’s not worth it.
Game theory….
by mysterui on Jul 10, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but not if he could move to 1B or DH
by Schnurdog on Jul 10, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we'd get value for Wallace.
Like mysterui said, the other team would know that the only reason we’re shopping/trading Wallace would be because we don’t see him fitting into OUR pipeline. To me, that would be enough leverage to really lowball for him.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with
Scnurdog’s proposal is that he’s looking for a 3B to 3B swap. With a slight alteration, however—trading for a package of young talent that includes a 3B, it could work, to a team for which Wallace could play DH or 1B.
Generally I have a real problem with the argument—which I see here all the time—that if your trading partners know you are desperate, that you will be fleeced. My response is that no, they won’t fleece you, as long as you don’t say yes to an inferior trade! If the other GM realizes that Moz, even though he’s in a bad situation, isn’t going to do something stupid, then the other GM is forced to make a deal on the merits for his own team, which, BTW, is all he’s really interested in anyway. That whole desperation argument is really better suited to true life-or-death situations, which MLB ain’t.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 10, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah!
No way this team would ever just trade a 3B for another 3B.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But there were equal incentives on both sides
Both were injury prone, and both had big contracts, and I’m not sure about Glaus, but Rolen didn’t get along with his manager
We’re not getting a defensive 3B + a pretty good bat for just a good bat
by mysterui on Jul 10, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen him (Wallace) play, but
I just don’t know if I buy how “AWFUL” his defense could really be. I mean, the dude has played 3B forever, supposedly he’s lost a few lbs (presumably to help his first step and subsequent range).
I’d venture a guess that there are worse fielding 3Bers in MLB right now than current Brett Wallace and if his bat lives up to the hype (and he’s raked at every level), it just doesn’t seem like such a big hangup to me.
I’m not necessarily advocating call him up now (he’s only a year removed from college, right?), but I’d be hard-pressed to move a projected impact bat like Wallace for a better defense, lighter hitting 3B prospect. We need impact offensive players because we have so many other guys who are defense-first (and sometimes second and third). I really hope the org gives Wallace a real shot at 3B.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't played 3B forever
If I recall correctly, this is his second year at third.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh really?
Shit. Still, does he really project as THAT horrendous? Like, Dan Uggla in the All-Star game-horrendous? Because if not, I think you can sacrifice some D for offense if you’ve got a big range SS playing alongside him.
I love defense, but you’ve gotta score runs to win games. Our org needs more impact bats. We’ve been beaten by too many teams scoring like 3 (or fewer) runs.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he needs more time in AAA
Maybe a Sept call up if he is still hiting but anything outside of that… No. Someone needs to get his ass into a fat camp after this season. If he can drop another 10-15lbs before Spring Training than he might have a shot at making this team out of ST.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
I never said we should call him up, like, yesterday. I’m just saying he’s a valuable piece and I’d hate for this label to preclude him from getting a shake at being our starting 3B of the future.
Again, I think there are certainly worse 3B in the majors than what Brett Wallace could be. I mean, look at Joe Thurston, who sees far, far too much time at third.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems harsh...
I understand he’s lost 15 lbs. already, and his build doesn’t look to be the type that would take well to weight loss. He’s not Prince (or Cecil) Fielder.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we just pause here
to remember the beauty of Uggla’s horrendous performance a year ago. A truly momentous evening for him. Only the Shark has a bigger choke to his name that I can remember. You almost felt sorry for him — almost.
Just win
by The Duke on Jul 10, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it Cook that was pitching?
He did an outstanding job of keeping things in check!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is Wallace even all that good?
Just looked at his numbers for the first time, and honestly, I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Does he look better in person or something?
by Expatcardfan on Jul 10, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, he should be that good
Remember he is only about a year out of college and hitting about .300 in AAA already. Not to mention he was a two-time triple crown winner in the PAC-10 and everyone who has seen him (not me unfortunately) says he can flat-out rake.
by nmstar on Jul 10, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I personally think he is that good...
But “hitting about .300 in AAA already” and “he was a two-time triple crown winner in the PAC-10” don’t tell us that he is going to be “that good”.
Joe Thurston’s resume:
2000 – Los Angeles Dodgers Minor League Player of the Year
2000 – California League All-Star SS
2002 – Baseball America 2nd team Minor League All-Star 2B
2002 – Triple-A All-Star 2B
2002 – Los Angeles Dodgers Minor League Player of the Year
2002 – Pacific League All-Star 2B
2002 – AAA Player of the Year
2006 – International League All-Star 2B
2008 – International League All-Star 2B
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he is good
Not just good, but really freakin good. He is just starting to hit at AAA – his numbers for the last few weeks are outstanding. He struggled at first in AAA. In his interview on the Post Dispatch website he blamed it on exactly what I had guessed: he got used to A and AA pitchers always challenging him so he was swinging at everything. After he hit like garbage for a month or so he realized that AAA pitchers are more like MLB pitchers and you have to be selective. He is back on track now, pretty much tearing the cover off the ball the last few weeks.
by rthorat on Jul 10, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if this game gets played today, it could be a sloppy field
Steady rain since 9am where I am (bout an hour west of wrigley). Supposed to rain til late this evening.
FYI for the VEB
The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series
by Walking Underwear on Jul 10, 2009 12:16 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
So it could be
a Saturday doubleheader followed by a Sunday doubleheader?
by stlfan on Jul 10, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post, great game
Just want to commend the site Manager and Editors for some amazing posts recently—this one was the latest in a line of several in which the quality of writing/thoughtfulness was matched only by the quality of Joel Piniero’s sinking fast-ish ball. Anytime you can work Pud Galvin into a post, and include time travel and mustaches, well, things are looking awfully good.
"When all's been said and done, I can say that all has been said and done."
-Steve "Lips" Kudlow, of Anvil
by redbird brain on Jul 10, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Tony is scrutinizing the weather report today?
If so, and a lengthy delay or even a postponement is possible, the team might be better served to have Thompson start today and push Carpenter back to tomorrow, when there is sure to be an uninterrupted game. I would think that a wasted Carpenter start would want to be avoided at all costs in this series.
by olddomination on Jul 10, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good thought.
I agree…you’d hate to waste a Carp start, especially vs. the Cubbies at Wrigley.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did something similar back in DC in May
Lohse was scheduled to start, then KMac was named starter before the game was postponed.
by ubeddie on Jul 10, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip's defense
It’s one thing to say skip plays a poor 2nd base, it’s another to say his glove is “made of solid iron.” Skip makes most plays that he gets a glove on. He’ll even make the occasional spectacular play (Nothing Brendan Ryan like, but still good nonetheless).
His range is where he becomes a defensive liability. I still don’t think it’s as bad as his UZR says. Remember this is a somewhat flawed statistic that doesn’t calculate shifts, how hard the ball is hit, what kind of hop it takes, etc.
Skip also makes the occasional errant throw.. thank God for that Gold Glove we have over at 1st.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
by stltrav09 on Jul 10, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mitchell Boggs sput a gem last night
8ip, 4 hits, 0 ER, 2 BB, 7K’s
He also hit a solo homerun!
Despite this, his ERA still sits over 5 for the season. Hopefully this is the start that turns it around for him down in Memphis. If he puts a string of good starts together he could find himself back in St. Louis.
Jess Todd got the save giving up 1 run on a solo HR. He struck out one.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
by stltrav09 on Jul 10, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lineups
per stldtoday.com:
ST. LOUIS
2B – Skip Schumaker
CF – Colby Rasmus
1B – Albert Pujols
RF – Ryan Ludwick
LF – Rick Ankiel
C – Yadier Molina
3B – Joe Thurston
SP – Chris Carpenter
SS – Brendan Ryan
CHICAGO CUBS
CF – Reed Johnson
SS – Ryan Theriot
RF – Kosuke Fukudome
1B – Derrek Lee
3B – Aramis Ramirez
LF – Alfonso Soriano
2B – Mike Fontenot
C – Koyie Hill
SP – Rich Harden
by santiagofish on Jul 10, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
harden v. carpenter: the battle of the talented and fragile.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 10, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just peeked in at BCB,
and there’s a string of posts about what Brad Thompson’s name would be if he were a girl. (They thought he was starting today instead of Carp, and Thompson’s photo makes him look like…well, this is well covered territory for VEB, innit?)
Pat and Chris are just two of many androgynnyms put forth.
by santiagofish on Jul 10, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've run across many forums
in which he has been referenced as a transvestite.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Run across"
I avoid such fora—or at least when I’m at work.
:)
by santiagofish on Jul 10, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me think
Brad Thompson => Puppy Kicker
Brad Thompson => a girl or a transvestite
I’ve got it – Cruella De Vil
Sorry about that Brad (and anyone else disgusted by that thought). The idea just ran through my head like a well-endowed female streaker and I had to check it out.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Melissa Etheridge
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm liking a strong Nordic name
Something that ends in -dottir.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thought (nothing terribly disgusting)
When I was in the Navy, we had a few instructors at my school that were officers in not much more than uniform only. They weren’t going to continue on to aircraft carriers or submarines; they were just there to teach us our advanced courses.
One of them was a very blockish, homely woman who was pretty much a dead ringer for the SNL character, so she immediately picked up the nickname “Enisgn Pat.” I’m sure she was a lovely person and a capable teacher, but I’ll be damned if I can remember anything else about her.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 10, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he looks like a Penellope
The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series
by Walking Underwear on Jul 10, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anybody been to the fan fest?
i was wanting to check it out since i don’t have tickets to the futures game, Home Run Derby, or ASG…. but people on the PD forums were saying that it was not worth $85.
I checked out the MLB website and it said that tickets were only $30 a piece… where are they getting $85? Or are they just a bunch of yahoos as usual?
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jesus....
I don’t think it costs 85 bucks. Season-ticket holders purchase tix for 25, face value is 30, and anyone can get a $5 off coupon from Taco Bell I believe.
Unless they just typed an “8” instead of a “2,” they really got hosed!
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
$30 bucks seems steep but I would pay it to check out at least SOMETHING from the ASG. However, I wasn’t going to go driving from Peoria to pay more for the ticket than the gas to get there.
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going down tomorrow.
I have no idea if it’s gonna be worth it, but I kinda felt the same way i.e., figured I should do SOMETHING All-star related.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you buy tickets at the gate?
or do you have to have them in hand when you arrive?
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno if you can get them at the gate
I assume you can, but you can also grab them online:
http://mlb.mlb.com/stl/fan_forum/asg/fanfest_tickets.jsp
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been the Fanfest many times
it is fun for seeing some of the exhibits if you’ve never seen them but it is basically a giant merchandise and collectibles event.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are the autograph lines insanely long?
And it looks like it’s more for kiddies than adults. Is that a fair assessment?
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are ridiculously long
and no, it’s just as fun for adults as kids. Some of the stuff like running the bases and batting cages are for kids but you can do stuff like make your own announcing tape, etc.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't have any kids (my wife and I)
and we will be joined by my Dad and maybe one of his friends from work. Is it really geared towards kids or is it something that my wife and I (we are both 26) would enjoy?
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind
i didnt all of the above post
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it means anything to you
I got 4 tickets in section 167 to the Futures game for $23 a pop. StubHub
by mysterui on Jul 10, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
thanks for the info… i’ll take that into consideration
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just curious though
did you price tickets to the homerun derby or the actual ASG?
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Much, much more expensive
HR Derby started at $175 while the ASG was in the $350 range.
I feel like I made a smart choice, being a poor college student
by mysterui on Jul 10, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
word from wrigley
tarp just went on the field
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
radar does not look promising
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dang it
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strauss was just reporting from the dugout on Bernie's show
that they were still going to make every effort to play this game… I know that lots of people don’t like Strauss, but that is what he said
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i don’t see how they can afford another rain out
back to back double headers? no way
there are a couple breaks, but it looks like it’ll rain off and on until about 10pm
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that bad
As soon as the current patch of rain passes in 30 minutes or so, it looks like the next patch will all go South or at least only be light rain. I think they will get this in.
by rthorat on Jul 10, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weather.com radar
looks like there will be an hour break or so and then rain again for a while, hour break more rain and so on until 10
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
back edge of the rain is over wrigley now
should start soon and rain should stay away til the end.. That’s per tom skilling at wgn who is pretty good
The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series
by Walking Underwear on Jul 10, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're pulling the tarp off now
The purpose of the exercise is to win the World Series
by Walking Underwear on Jul 10, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's been weird in Chicago
waaay more rain and clouds than usual this year
Nasty like Nas, Batman combined with Method Man
G. Rap hydraulics, supersonics call me Shark Man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bernie and Derrick Goold are talking about the Home Run Derby
Saying that because no one from the AL wants to do it, maybe Ichiro will… I’ve always read that he sacrificed the power for average, but I would actually love to see him in it
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that'd be awesome.
i remember a story i heard about ty cobb one time. his team mates were talking about babe ruth and the power the bambino had. ty cobb said something to the effect of “that’s nothing,” and went to show how anyone could hit home runs: he hit three the next game, astonishing his team mates. then he went back to his high average ways.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 10, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which I'm sure is shenanigans
If Cobb could really hit home runs on command then he’s an idiot for not having done that.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i think the thing is that cobb
thought hitting homeruns was bad baseball. he didn’t want to kill rallies, as it were.* he thought it took more skill to have a high average and get lots of hits.
*this is obviously sarcasm. hence my pointing it out as such.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 10, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm aside
there was a general disdain for homeruns by players that came before Ruth. McGraw didn’t believe they were good strategy and led to bad baseball being played.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, this.
anyhow, while the story is probably apocryphal, cobb did hit 5 home runs over the course of two games in 1925, per b-r. so, maybe the story has something to it? i don’t know. i just remember reading it in a book published in the 1950s about great baseball players. it was a really interesting read.
plus, cobb strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn’t hit home runs on purpose. crotchety racist.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 10, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See my post immediately below for a lot more stats.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
admission:
i read that link as soon as you posted it. ; )
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 10, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huge story about this very thing
Here. Very doubtful.
"I'll be glad to have Ryan [Braun] help if he wants to. I'll give him a badge and he can be my deputy." - Doug Melvin
by all4tookie on Jul 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ichiro should be allowed to hit the ball
and if he can make it around the bases before it lands, it counts as a HR.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a great idea!
They have 172 children in the outfield, and only 1 or 2 of them can actually catch a ball. They’re just like the Mets outfield. Ichiro would win.
Oh, and Danup-Charlos Silva? Really? Yikes!
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 10, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the canned footage at the beginning of the broadcasts
by Dan and Al. It makes no mention of the tarp being on the field.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so then we are going to be slightly delayed?
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Better to start delayed
Than to delay it in-game and lose Carpenter.
by olddomination on Jul 10, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No Bob Brenly with Len Kasper today?
It’s an actual former Cub! The homerism should be even more intolerable than usual!
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 10, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm looking forward to it... ughh
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 10, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok... so I have a (slight) rain delay off topic question that I want to ask
however, it could ride the fence in regards to the decorum of this website… it has to do with Urinal Etiquette in a guys bathroom…
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
now i'm curious.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 10, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok... well i have had a crappy VEB run these last couple of weeks so I guess I'll just ask....
What is it about guys older than about 40 and guys from other countries that they don’t observe the proper etiquette when at a bank of urinals?
I thought that the understood rule was that you go to the end of an empy bank of urinals when you approach (or at least one towards the end)
Then, if there is somebody already there… you go to the urinal which the farthest possible from the occupied one
If you are limited in that regard, you ALWAYS give the other guy a one urinal buffer zone…. ALWAYS!
If there is a crowd such that you cannot give that buffer zone… you always go to the one with either a wall or another empty urinal on the other side of the dude next to you
I constantly have guys come right up to the side of me while I’m in the bathroom when there is ample opportunity (i.e. no other occupied urinals) to give me breathing room
what do you guys think?
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the only way to objectively measure your Urinal etiquette
is to take the following quiz:
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is this work OK?
or should I wait till I get home?
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's work ok.
i got 5/6, fwiw.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got a 4 out of 6
missed the one about the door being better than the wall as well… missed another as well but i can’t remember which it was
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally work ok
I use it in my classes.
by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stop wearing your tube top in public.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 10, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tube tops would violate the dress code here at work
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love how big a deal the Cubs make of the '84 team...
They didn’t so much as win the pennant. Ahhh…low expectations.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 10, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
I savor every opportunity to watch a game on TV rather than MLB.TV, which completely locks down my crappy laptop.
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some still remember fondly
the summer of 69. When the didn’t even make the playoffs.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Though I'm not certain what the point...
…of a REC for a main-page post, I’ll give you one anyway, Dan. This was hilarious. My personal favorite was this quote:
Up to now Albert Pujols has stood on the bases after driving in runs more or less because of societal pressure to conform
Nice.
I find it interesting that RB compared Pineiro to a Jazz Age pitcher…now he’s a Gilded Age pitcher! Now all he has to do is curl up that mustache a little bit for a handle bar type look and grow out some of these:

For the non-history buffs out there, this handsome dude was named Ambrose Burnside. Yes, side-burns comes from his name. He was a horrible general during the Civil War, but in terms of facial hair there has never been anyone this innovative or historically important.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Burnside is one of many awesome-looking Civil War generals. My favorite will always be Sherman just because he looks like the most wiry, grizzled, cuss-ed sunuvabitch you’d ever have the pleasure to meet.
I also like how Dan used Hayes who, many forget, was an accomplished ballplayer. Ruthy “Mays” Hayes they called him. He didn’t have the great career or the all-around game that the Say Hey Kid had, but he was a speedy guy who played good outfield defense and developed a little power in the second half of his career.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
is there scotch?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jul 10, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fun with WPA
Leading off the 2nd inning of the April 27th contest against the Atlanta Braves, Joe Thurston drew a walk. At that point, in 77 plate appearances taken by Cardinals third basemen, they had amassed a WPA of +.544. Both of our major options were hitting very well, even leading to Barden winning the NL Rookie of the Month award.
From that point forward, our 3rd sackers have compiled a putrid -2.605 WPA over 265 PA’s. For comparison sake, our pitchers (a group normally associated with really shitty hitting compared to normal position players) have a combined WPA of -2.141 for the entire year (204 PA’s).
Without access to numbers broken down accurately, the actual position seems to be a productivity suck all by itself. Barden had a few excellent games at 2nd & SS, but was horrid at 3rd after the tipping point. Tyler Greene has a WPA of -1.00, but shortstop has been nearly league average despite him; I’m guessing he’s been stinking much more while playing the hot corner. (B. Ryan has been slightly above average on his own, but not enough to buoy both of the Greenes.)
I know that everyone is aware of the lack of hitting by Thurston, et al. It still is shocking to have the full weight of their ineptitude hit you in one shot.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jul 10, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say this is an awesome post
but I’m afraid someone might accidentally think the thing you’re talking about is awesome, and that’d be said.
Very vigorous post!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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