choosing up sides
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
258 comments
howdy gang; i'll be sitting in today and friday while danup takes his annual leave of the pixels. i got nothing to say about the team this morning that you don’t already know; start hitting soon, boys. please?
the amateur draft starts tonight with rounds 1 through 3, plus a couple of sandwich rounds; i’ll post a comment thread for that, and a concurrent one for the baseball game against florida. i won’t be on hand tonight to update the picks on the front page as they’re made, so if anybody with keys to the blog has a chance to do that, go for it. and thank you.
this will be the 5th luhnow-run draft; that’s a lot of drafts for one guy. according to Baseball America’s executive database, only three scouting directors have run more drafts for the cardinal franchise -- marty maier, fred mcalister (rip), and george silvey. and maier’s were non-consecutive, which leaves silvey and mcalister -- both franchise legends -- as the only two men with longer uninterrupted stints than luhnow at the head of the draft.
there’s still plenty of room for argument about how effectively luhnow has drafted. he’s already had 10 draftees get to the majors -- rasmus, greene, boggs, stavinoha, and garcia from the 2005 draft; perez, walters, luke gregerson, and sugar shane from ’06; todd from ’07 -- but none has been around long enough to establish how good a big-leaguer he will be. the pundits give luhnow good marks -- since he started drafting, the cardinals’ farm system ranking (according to the likes of baseball america, keith law, and kevin goldstein) has jumped from at or near the bottom in 2005 to the top 10 this year. but there are a lot of doubters too, as joe strauss documented in his p-d article on sunday:
Late to the organization's greater emphasis on quantitative analysis, manager Tony La Russa openly has questioned the level of "experimentation" within player development and scouting under Luhnow.
Said La Russa: "What you can look at is: Who did you take? Who did you have the chance to take? What guys get to the big leagues? And of the guys who reach the big leagues, who are impressive? They're fair questions to ask."
Another organization member is blunter still: "There is very little down there, very little. We haven't drafted players you build a team around. We draft guys who may one day help. That's not opinion; that's fact."
anybody want to guess who the anonymous speaker of the last quote is? i'll bet you a number-one draft pick it’s dave duncan . . . . whichever "jocketty holdover" did say it, that comment made me laugh. in the years immediately before luhnow took over, the cardinals didn’t draft players you could build a triple A team around, much less a big-league club. during the dying days of jocketty’s tenure, he’d look down at the memphis roster for a short-term fill-in and his best options would be washed-out 30ish hitters like scott seabol, brian daubach, or timo perez, or mound journeymen like brian falkenborg and kelvin jimenez. the top "prospects" drafted late on jocketty’s watch, such as travis hanson and reid gorecki, didn’t even rise to the level of replacement players.
so it’s a fact -- not an opinion -- that the farm system is stocked with vastly more promise than it was when luhnow took over. he’s been procuring players for four years now, and in that time he’s brought into the organization two likely major-league regulars (colby rasmus and brett wallace), several others who are possible regulars or semi-regulars (daryl jones, pete kozma, tyler greene, bryan anderson), a bunch of others who have bench-player potential (most notably allen craig, john jay, tyler henley, daniel descalso), and a passel of guys with a good chance to stick somewhere as a reliever or mid- to back-rotation starter (mitch boggs, jaime garcia, lance lynn, clay mortensen, chris perez, jess todd, luke gregerson, francisco samuel, fernando salas). that’s not including anybody who’s presently at class A or below (ie, nearly the entire 2008 draft class), nor toolsy caribbean signees like roberto de la cruz and eduardo sanchez and gerardo mannbel.
let’s place that haul alongside the production of previous four-year spans:
| 2005-08 | 2001-04 | 1997-00 | 1993-96 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| STARS | ???? | dan haren | albert pujols jd drew |
matt morris |
| REGULARS | probably 3 to 5 | skip schumaker | adam kennedy yadi molina jack wilson chris duncan coco crisp rick ankiel |
placido polanco alan benes braden looper |
| PART-TIMERS | possibly 8 to 10 | kyle mclellan joe mather brad thompson daric barton brendan ryan anthony reyes jason motte |
bud smith mike crudale pablo ozuna |
eli marrero jay witasick cliff polite britt reames chris richard kerry robinson brent butler |
in this chart, the "regulars" category includes starting pitchers who earne a regular rotation spot, plus closers; "part-timers" includes non-closers in the bullpen. i didn’t bother to list replacement-level players (such as stavinoha and shane robinson), who are legion in all the 4-year periods and of absolutely no interest.
what immediately jumps out at me is that the cardinals drafted their asses off in the late 1990s -- and thereby set up the dynasty of the 2000s. between 1997 and 2000 they brought 8 everyday players into the organization, or 2 per year. they drafted an entire up-the-middle core -- yadi behind the plate; kennedy and wilson in the middle infield; crisp in center -- plus a pitcher with ace potential (ankiel) and two mvp-type hitters (pujols and drew). even though they squandered some of the talent (crisp and wilson were both dealt for half-season rentals, and ankiel you know about), the cardinals added an extraordinary amount of value to their portfolio during those years. we don’t think of the 2000s dynasty as being draft-built, but it really was -- their good drafts in the last half of the 1990s yielded albert pujols and matt morris plus (via trade) edgar renteria, jim edmonds, and scott rolen.
could the 2005-08 draft cohort turn out to be as productive as 97-00? not likely, but not impossible. if we’re lucky, rasmus and/or wallace might eventually fit into the "star" category; they might be the two most promising position players the cardinals have drafted since pujols (although wallace’s early showing at memphis -- 4 walks, 21 strikeouts, .088 isolated power in 91 at-bats -- does give me slight pause). daryl jones could turn into coco crisp, and pete kozma could grow up to be jack wilson (a player he was compared to at the time he was drafted); so could tyler greene, for that matter. there might be a closer (perez) and/or a rotation regular or two in the group. . . . in an extremely lucky scenario, there might be 8 everyday players (including a star or two) to come out of luhnow’s first four drafts. more likely the group will produce 3 to 5 regulars plus some bench depth; a good, not great, haul.
will the cardinals be able to build a contending team around these guys? too soon to tell; ask me again when luhnow’s preparing for his 8th or 9th draft . . . . .
Red Baron Note: Hey, gang, Aaron here. I'm going to be covering the draft as it happens over at the RFT, and I'll try to keep the draft thread here updated too whenever a pick is made. I'll probably save the heavy analysis, but I will make sure at least the names and maybe a link or a couple of sentences is put up.
Also, I know Erik is doing a liveblog over at FR via the CoverItLive software, so be sure to check that out as well. Lord, I love draft day.
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great post, LB...
… i do wonder if the FO’s strategy has changed a bit over the last few years. Luhnow inherited a system that was terrible, and perhaps the right course of action at the time to was to build depth rather than swinging for the fences. especially considering that in most of those drafts, the Cards had very late picks.
now that there is at least some depth at pretty much every position, and a few high-risk/reward gambles besides, perhaps the organization will be less prone to make a Kozma-like pick in the early rounds. although, i don’t like rolling the dice in first couple of rounds; i’d rather them take “safer” picks (e.g. Wallace-types) there but save some bullets for the later rounds.
maybe the best strategy is to preserve the depth by drafting safe-ish in the early rounds, and gamble with the later rounds + Latin signees.
by kindred on Jun 9, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it would be nice to see them go for high ceiling this year
instead of a predictable, signable pick. because of the $$$ invested in a 1st-rounder, there’s got to be pressure on the scouting director to pick somebody who winds up helping the big-league club in some fashion.
i do think they made the right call in trying to stock the system with fast-moving players who could rapidly become big-league ready -- not as easy as it sounds, and they have succeeded in that objective.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how the organization allocates resources for the U.S. amateur draft vs. Latin American signings
Only recently have the Cards moved into the southern hemisphere. They made a couple of signings last year and there have been reports that the Cards offered Mateo about $4MM.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 9, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Southern hemisphere?
The Cards have a big presence in South America?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its those damn
New Zealand ball players…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jun 9, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We may be onto something here.
I wonder if the transition from Crickett to baseball would be that hard. They use wooden bats too. Maybe we have just discovered a gold mine of new talent.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a cricket fan
apparently a few years back australian wicketkeeper Adam Gilchrist was approached about trying baseball when he retired by someone or other (can’t really remember who, but it was definitely a news story). The wicketkeeper is the equivalent of the catcher, and usually thus not a particularly good batting player, Gilchrist modernised the role in the 90s and 00s (analogous to all the good-hitting short stops who appeared in the Cal Ripken Jr wake) by being a truly great batsman. I guess he’d never have got very far as a baseball player in his 30s, however!
I don’t think there is much cross-over at all in the two sports, even in terms of basic skills. The only example I can think of is that there are a few baseball-background “fielding coaches” in cricket (the australians have/had one) who emphasised hard, flat throws (the sort a CF makes to the cut-off man) rather than the more aerial ones cricketers traditionally made, which I guess has had some impact on modern fielding.
Cricketer Ed Smith wrote a great book called “Playing Hardball” about the fact that a lot of cricketers are baseball fans, I believe he tried out for a team (not seriously, for the purposes of the book) in ST.
And yes, I realise your post was tongue-in-cheek :-).
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 9, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there's a year
where they go over slot, this would be a good one seeing as how few high picks we have compared to recent years.
I’m pretty excited about what might go down tonight, a lot of the mocks have some very talented athletes falling to us due to bonus demands.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Jun 9, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who was running the draft in the late 90s?
I’m also curious about the team pres, etc.
by sdrone on Jun 9, 2009 9:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
according to baseball america
ed creech ran the 1997 draft (which produced adam kennedy and rick ankiel)
marty maier ran the 98 draft (jd drew and jack wilson)
mozeliak ran the 1999 and 2000 drafts (duncan, crisp, pujols, molina)
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess if Mo doesn't work out at GM
he can go back to running drafts
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder who Mo thinks his best pick was?
by njnick on Jun 9, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks, mo!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Player Development...
I think is the wild card. Are the Cards drafting talent and not developing it? The draft is more correlated to future success than player development, but it still can mean the difference between bench player and star.
Let’s consider someone like Raul Ibanez, 36th round pick in 1992, vs. Delmon Young, 1st round pick in 2003. Did everyone just miss on Ibanez, or did he get developed correctly? Did everyone miss in the opposite direction on Young, or did he not get the correct development tools? Hard to say.
It’s easy to credit Pujols as a draft find, because he made the big league club so quickly. But what about a late-round find such as Jason Motte? Was that a great pick, or did they just develop him well?
I also think that there is a disconnect between what is expected (especially of pitchers) at the minor league level and what is expected at the major league level, and this might be skewing some of the draft results as well. Classic mechanics, pitching to contact, whatever philosophy they decide on they should make it uniform across levels.
Anywho, random thoughts aside, great post. Here’s hoping some top talent falls because of cost and we are there to pick it up.
by sdangler on Jun 9, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jason Motte was a catcher, right?
So I think they lucked out on him. Good point overall though. Player development is crucial.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel & Motte
I discount them from a draft perspective, since they were drafted as very different positions than what they are now.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 9, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what you're saying...
but Ank made it through the ranks pretty quickly and absolutely dominated upon making the big leagues. I don’t discount the pick AT ALL! I don’t want to think anymore about what might have been, so that’s all I’m saying.
I agree on the Motte pick.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear what you are saying
I think that Pitcher Ankiel was a great selection. I just don’t view it as an everyday player draft. For me, I guess, I prefer three years of everyday starting for a player to be considered that. But, that’s me being choosy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 9, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
excellent read on the situation, lb
too early too call, but it’s silly to say luhnow helped spur some much needed change.
godfather of futureredbirds.net
by erik on Jun 9, 2009 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is silly really the word you meant to use there?
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jun 9, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or maybe didn't help spur?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably some Iowa slang
that we don’t know about.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 9, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't fourstick from Iowa...
translation please.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or bgh
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or liam.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 9, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he does live in between Chicago and St Louis
so that works
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm from Iowa
but unfortunately can’t help on that one. Silly has always meant silly to me.
by birdo rojo on Jun 9, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the disgruntled jocketty holdover?
I was trying to figure out who that was from Strauss’ article. The anonymous source reminded me of a New York Times article quoting an official in the Bush White House. LaRussa’s comments were on the record so it wasn’t him. As far as I know, all the disgruntled Jocketty partisans from the front office have left the organization. So one is left scratching his head … D. Duncan then is as good a candidate as any. Whoever is was spouted Bush era propaganda. Reminded me of a pre-invasion Rumsfeld, “We know for a fact Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and where he is hiding them.”
by jjray on Jun 9, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Top 3 draft pics 2000-2004
These are the years where the wheels came off for Jocketty’s drafting and ultimate destruction of the Cards minor league system. A poster over at futureredbirds.com compiled a list of the Cards top 3 picks from 200-2004. The list is frightening.
http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/06/06/daily-farm-report-6609/comment-page-1/#comment-8543
by jjray on Jun 9, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And when you consider
that the two best picks in that span were traded for one Mark Mulder, it shows you how much bad drafts + bad trades can set your farm system back 5 years.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 9, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could it be Mozeliak?
Why couldn’t it be is a better question.
by boilertiger on Jun 9, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mozeliak
That would be odd. Walt Jocketty was fired largely for interorganizational warfare with Luhnow. JMo got the GM job by promising to make peace within the organization and work with Luhnow. I find it inconceivable that JMo is now anonymously taking swipes at Luhnow. It can’t be him. As JMo has a large say in who is drafted in the first few rounds, it’s hard for him to distance himself completely from the minor league system. It’s not Mozeliak.
by jjray on Jun 9, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoever it is
it’s disturbing, because it means there are still people inside the organization who are rooting for luhnow to fail.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.....
Just means they don’t buy into the system.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 9, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little healthy skepticism never hurts at all.
I think people should be a bit more tolerant of opposiong viewpoints, instead of running people off because they aren’t “in sync” with the system.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
OTOH, such disagreements should take place behind closed doors, not in the newspaper.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 9, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and given the recent history of this franchise
and the open antagonism between the jocketty and luhnow camps, i’m not sure this represents “healthy” debate. i hope it does -- but i suspect that it represents something else.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anything but "healthy"
Any time you have someone operating behind the cloak of anonymity to take pot shots at the greater organization’s strategy or direction, you are in trouble. I don’t mean to drag politics into this, but it is the most easily area where this occurs. You can look at a campaign and, generally, the one with the most anonymous critics in stories is the loser. (That’s a non-partisan, campaign nuts-and-bolts observation.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 9, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The issue with the quote has presented
Another organization member is blunter still: "There is very little down there, very little. We haven’t drafted players you build a team around. We draft guys who may one day help. That’s not opinion; that’s fact.
Is that it doesn’t mention what context it was presented in. If someone asked someone who can we bring up right now to fix the offense this is a very true statement. Who playing in Memphis is the type of player we can build a team around?
Wallace would be the only person that comes to mind. And he has been in Memphis for what, two weeks now? The only other person who has been in memphis for the last few years that is that type of player is Rasmus…
If the question was asked if you see any players that could be the type of player to build around comming up in the next few years…
Then yeah, it is a little disturbing. But without a source, and the context I think that quote is just classic Strauss.
by Evilfrog on Jun 9, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's safe to say
that there are some members of the organization that remain opposed to Luhnow’s method of operation and priorities. The talk of a front office schism has died down in the media, but it’s still prevalent in reality.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 9, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
defining "build around" as 4-5 WAR player
Mather could have been one of those. Still could be, if he gets healthy, but I’m not holding my breath.
Rasmus is that kind of player, probably. Jones might be, as well. Wallace could be.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 9, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jayson Werth didn't break out till age 28.
That’s still the player that Mather most reminds me of.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 9, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The context is very interesting on this one - maybe they weren't trying to
One very realistic scenario (imo) is that they weren’t necessarily trying to draft the players that you build teams around. That type of player is incredibly hard to find and the I’m guessing the success rate is about the only thing lower than the Cards current batting average.
I think there’s a very good chance that the team was just trying to build something of a farm system for the first couple of years by taking lots of guys that were more predictable and had a better chance of doing something – at the expense of a high ceiling. In effect, get a lot of mediocre talent in place so there would be something in the cupboard to pull from. In my opinion, that would have been a very good approach given how bankrupt the farm system was 5 years ago.
If this is true, I can only hope they start to blend in some of the high ceiling players over the next couple of years to attempt to take the system to the next level, now that a relatively stable foundation has been laid.
by birdo rojo on Jun 9, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a respectful request
to leave unnecessary political analogies out of the discussion. thank you.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 9, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, that's a fair request
we’re united in our baseball allegiances on this site; let’s not let political allegiances divide us
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec
Couldn’t have said it better myself
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 9, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I'm not piling on
I just wanted to point out that I feel the same way. The issue for me, personally, isn’t so much using politics in general as an analogy, but the use of specific people. I’ve been guilty of this in the past, mostly in jest. I’ve made an effort to be more conscientious about it.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 9, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sound like Warren Taft!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 9, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, lay off the guy!
No personal attacks!
BTW, did you hear what the Pope had to say about the Boyer-Todd fiasco? What a … I’ll be over here, shutting my mouth now.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jun 9, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You look like Warren Taft!
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 9, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that is just uncalled for
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this straight, you people are offended because I wrote the words “Bush administration” and “Donald Rumsfeld”? The post said, “it reminded me … .” I truthfully related my thoughts on reading the Strauss article. My mind related Strauss’ article to politics (because essentially it is inter office politics). Why should you care one way or the other about what a poster’s thoughts are on the Bush Administration? It is not a direct ad hominem attack on a poster on this board nor an individual in our community. Yet, the mere mention of these names offends? Fine.
by jjray on Jun 9, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on jj
it’s a longstanding rule on the site -- no politics. people don’t come here for that.
for what it’s worth, you and i come from the same side of the political fence -- i’m no fan of the bush admin either. but i know i would enjoy this site less if casual political-themed commentary became a regular part of it (even commentary i agreed with). i visit other sites for that sort of thing.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't say i was offended
i simply requested that unnecessary politics be left out of discussion. your comments weren’t innocuous, either: you use the word propaganda and subsequently make reference to donald rumsfeld’s pre-invasion stance regarding wmd. i’m a leftist but would rather we keep politics of all types off this site. its better for discussion as everyone still feels welcome and we keep the focus on baseball.
its not a big deal and i’m not suggesting i’m perfect. lets just keep discussion centered on baseball.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 9, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
besides
why would we want to be reminded of those guys?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
must fight urge to comment...
…ok it passed
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone should go back and read the quote from "the other organization member"
then they should go read spant’s sig.
I think it is quite clear who that quote came from.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Things are better.. but we cannot count on the draft
To bring us impact players and produce all of the top tier talent on our roster. It is absolutely essential to draft well (just as it is in the NFL) but for different reasons.
If we are talking about winning right now (which is what Larussa and Duncan should and would be concerned about) then Lunhow has not helped them out too much yet. However, if he allows us to start making INTELLIGENT trades with some of his prospects.. then this organization can start moving in the right direction again.
It’s great to have assets in our organization but we need to start taking some of them and harvesting them for profits (ie. Major League wins).
by boilertiger on Jun 9, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't look now...
but Jocketty’s first two picks with the Reds, Yader Alonso and Zach Stewart, both drafted in 2008, are in double-A and thriving.
by guayzimi on Jun 9, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's true...
but look at the team he took over as well. He’s drafting much higher with the Reds than he ever did with the Cardinals, and the Reds’ farm system was stocked full of young talent already when he got there. Guys like Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Phillips, Keppinger, Encarnacion, and Dickerson were already in AA or at the big league level when Jockett arrived in Cincy, and they still haven’t vied for a division title, although they should be ready to contend in the next couple of seasons I would think.
He’s also traded away players without getting much in return. He got Volquez for Hamilton (good trade for both sides), but didn’t get much in return for trading Griffey (not that much could be expected). He also got next to nothing for Dunn except a #5 starter/pinch hitter in Micah Owings.
I’ll buy that Jock is doing a good job when he doesn’t trade away both Alonso and Stewart for veterans.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 9, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the volquez trade was wayne krivsky's
if i recall correctly
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
not even a fair comparison, since the reds will be getting better players because they haven’t been doing well
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jocketty had good drafts
with the Cards when solid people below him made the picks. I wish Walt Jocketty well at Cincy (except when they play the Cards) but have no regrets that he was fired. The Cards are mid-market team and have to rely on player development to succeed long term. Funny thing about Jocketty when he went to Cincy, he adopted tactics he fought here championed by Luhnow. Jock is said to have brought in a quant guy for the minor league system and spent significant sums in Latin American player acquisition. Perhaps Walt has now adapted to the new order.
by jjray on Jun 9, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's also fair to point out
that luhnow’s top 2 picks from 2008 are at triple A and double A, respectively . . . .
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also fair to point out...
that Wallace’s numbers may be a bit worrisome, but the guy is at AAA at the age of 22. He is only a bit older than Colby at the same level. Colby struggled to get used to AAA pitching. Let’s give Wallace some time. I’m sure he will right the ship and free the Scottish people from tyranny very soon.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
those worried about Wallace's numbers after less than 100 PA in AAA
are just looking for something to be worried about…dude will hit…if he is still mightily struggling after 250 PA then you can consider worrying but c’mon everyone not named Pujols has struggled for 100 PA’s before…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Yeah, I'm a loser...
by nomar34 on Jun 9, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
given he was demolishing AA i'm going to put it down to small sample size
and maybe a bit of pressing at the higher level.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 9, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only was he demolishing AA pitching
he also was getting the Albert Pujols treatment down there. So, he was having to succeed while not getting much to hit and was doing just fine.
I, for one, am not concerned in the least bit about him right now.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wonder if he will stick at third
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now THAT
is a legitimate concern.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jun 9, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
otherwise he is a huge trade chip
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think how awesome the salty vets will be
he turns those two prospects into!
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alonso has an OPS of .619 in AA
It’s only 8 games, but he’s nowhere near thriving
by Glowsticks on Jun 9, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Chips
I think it is important to note how many guys were dealt to acquire key members of those great teams as a direct result of the draft.
Looper helped get Renteria
Kennedy as part of the Edmonds trade
Crisp for Finley… the list goes on (etc, etc.)
As I look at the list, the only guy who was a true regret is Haren. At the time I thought it was a good trade myself. Most of the prospects the Cardinals traded brought back even better players in return. It will be interesting to see from the 2005-8 drafts if they can turn those picks into upgrades as Jocketty tended to do. They have to show a willingness to pull the trigger and accept a risk at some point… don’t they?
by Salti Cracker on Jun 9, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice look
Thanks Iboros for a first rate look at the Cards draft history going into this draft. I have consistently found more cogent analysis here than at any other source. Bravo.
The Cardinals have drafted reasonably well recently. Looking at the last ten years, the name that stands out of course is Pujols; he is the supernova in that constellation. But finding players like him is pure luck, and we can thank our lucky (super) stars the Cardinals had it that year. Let’s hope they have some this year too.
by deweydell on Jun 9, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If the post-season is a "crapshoot"...
then the MLB draft is akin to using a Ouija board… so many prospects don’t make The Show; and guys who were drafted in the 13th round (El Hombre) or selected as a “favor” (Mike Piazza) wind up with Hall Of Fame-worthy careers.
I am of the camp that There Ain’t So Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect (they get hurt far too often somewhere along the way). Having said that, it’s also imperative that clubs develop their own starting pitchers… it’s far too expensive to build a staff through trades and the free-agent market! How to do that? I sure dunno!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jun 9, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Strasburg is as close to a sure thing as you're ever gonna get, IMO (pitching-wise)
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 9, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm no scouting whiz
but it doesn’t take a genius to see that a guy who can touch triple digits with good command and breaking stuff should easily transition to the majors.
There are health risks, but don’t those exist with any pitcher.
People like to use Prior as an example of a big time bust that was labeled a sure thing. But the guy could pitch when he was healthy. There are many other big league pitchers who go down as soon as they are signed anyways (Cardinals should know plenty about that),
by TheBirds on Jun 9, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, shit...
Prior damned near pitched the Cubs to the World Series in 2003. He was effective for parts of other seasons. His body exploded, true, but had the Cubs remembered how to field and gotten over the Bartman shit and won a ring, don’t you think the Cubs would have been more than happy with picking Prior? I do.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 9, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
REPLY FAIL
I was trying to say that the Cubs would have been more than happy with Prior had they won a ring in 2003, which they damn near did except that Alex Gonzalez forgot how to field ground balls and Dusty Baker left Prior in too long.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 9, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, I love me some LB!!!
Thanks for the spot-start LB. You are the honorary puppy-kicker of the day!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if he brings bad joojoo like he did last time, my world won't make any sence
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does the draft usually start this late?
Or did they decide to move it into prime time this year?
by saladdays on Jun 9, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
last year it was on during the day
because i DVR’d it on ESPN while at work…Keith Law and i believe Jim Callis did the color commentary on the players…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jun 9, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not usually this late
but apparently someone at MLB decided it would be a great idea to move the draft telecast into prime-time (or real close to it overlapping in to it a bit) because they’d definitely get better ratings going up against notorious ratings disasters like 8 different ML baseball games, game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals and game 2 or 3 of the NBA Finals (I can’t remember which game it is since the NBA takes off like a week between each game).
The ratings for the draft should be through the roof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy to do.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what
there’s other sports going on right now besides baseball?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
reply fail. meant to say “what, there’s other sports going on right now besides baseball?”
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that what you said?
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The second
version has a comma.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 9, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is anyone else seeing this comment by me twice?
I was just reading some posts further down and up pops that little black box on the bottom right that says there’s a new post by…….Tackle Box.
But, I’m Tackle Box…….
And it was the same comment I left for CFiC. And it won’t let me respond to it. I click “reply” on the other one and it shows up here, making me wonder if I’m the only one who can see it?
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just got double-posted (at least on my screen)
Didn’t happen like it usually does, either
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 9, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's been some technical issues I think
this page looks different than it did earlier
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it didn't show the comment I made about lb's post
weird
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the site screwing up earlier too
that’s why i haven’t posted today, i couldn’t. i just assumed sbnation was having problems.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my browser is malfunctioning
sorry
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have played basketball my entire life...
and I was horrendous at baseball. I am a hopeless addict of college basketball.
But I think I would rather watch paint dry as watch an NBA game.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
as a fan of the game itself, how can you not be impressed by some of the things they do in the league? The gameplay and strategy is different, but it has to be. you can be an average to slighly below average college player and get by with grit, a term we’ve all come to love here, but that doesn’t work in the NBA because they are all, for the most part, super athletes. Baseball is my favorite, followed by football, but the NBA, IMO, has the best athletes.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is very wierd
I had a whole paragraph with this post, now it’s just showing the title X 2
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's definitely something up with this site.
twice, it hasn’t allowed me to post saying to try again in a few minutes or something. I had a reply show up at the bottom of the page and then when I refreshed, it was gone.
Not a good day for this stuff with the draft about 3 hours away.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now my full posts are up
I blame this lb guy. I’m fairly new to VEB and all he ever seems to bring about are problems. I don’t even know what lboros is supposed to be. a pound of oreo cookies?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can't enjoy the Bulls/Celtics series this year
I’m not sure what to say.
There’s been some good playoff basketball this year. Yes, it does get dragged out. But basketball is a bit more physically demanding than baseball.
by sdrone on Jun 9, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the NBA
I just wish they’d clean up the officiating. It’s horrendous. I mean, the NFL has some bad officiating, but at least they review things and get calls right MOST of the time — the NBA star system is just out of control, imo. Getting some younger officials would help, but that’s not the whole problem. The biggest issue to me is that you have 3 different sets of officials, none of which work together in the regular season, officiating a 7 game playoff series! It doesn’t make any sense. Have one crew work every game of a 7 game series, that way the players and coached know what to expect and the series is called consistently.
That’s the great thing about the NHL and the MLB — you rarely see hockey officials and umpires effecting the outcome of the games, but you do see this in the NFL and the NBA quite often.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 9, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention it's only on the MLB network
something many of us don’t get. including yours truly.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say I LOVE Dan, Chuck, Aaron!
probably more than a grown man should…but there is something so calm and soothing about a LB post that was desperately needed after the last four days!!! thank you, Larry…top notch as always!
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jun 9, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tony's quote
do you think he is referring to Porcello when he says “Who did you have the chance to take?” and in doing such is poking at DeWitt more than Luhnow? (sorry for bringing this up on draft day)
To me Strauss always has a way of framing a response to create discussion, which is part of his job, rather than explain positions. If you read the dduncan quote as it refers to starting pitchers, is the quote that far off? Plenty of back of the rotation and bullpen guys, but no ace since Matt Morris. If you read it in the context of the team as a whole, then dduncan is wrong.
by ubeddie on Jun 9, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
We had an ace in Danny Haren and I think that Duncan is still sore that he was dealt for Mark Mulder, as he didn’t support the deal at the time.
I’d much rather have built the bullpen the way we have for 2009 than go looking for anonymous castoffs from other teams to cobble it together while wasting millions doing so. I still think that Boggs, Mortenson, and Garcia have potential to help the big club as middle to back of the rotation starters. We have 2 ace types at the big league level, so why should we continue to risk drafting them when we can fill the system with productive position players instead? It seems to me that we need around 13 position players (or 12 if you’re Tony) to field a solid major league roster, but only 5 starting pitchers. I’d rather go fishing on the free agent market for pitching than pay draft picks crazy sums of money — I would think that Duncan would feel the same considering his track record.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 9, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for some reason
i thought Duncan supported the Haren/Mulder trade at the time. getting a proven veteran who threw lots of groudballs for a young kid who elevated pitches to get strikeouts and flyballs…maybe i misremember.
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jun 9, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope...
supposedly the only disagreement he and TLR ever had.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony has been quoted as saying Dunc was against it
I can’t find the article but I remember Tony saying this was trade was the biggest point of disagreement they’ve ever had. Dunc was sure Haren was a future Ace and was very much against it. Tony admitted he missed the call on that one to.
by birdo rojo on Jun 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
people are way over-reacting on the TLR quote
as per usual.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 9, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I don’t think it’s so much questioning the drafting, scouting, and player development as it is just asking if we could have done better looking back on it. I do think that those are fair questions to ask, actually, and there needs to be some tension between management and the coaches or neither are doing their job very well, imo.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 9, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
until they start making moves based on what he says to the press
i do not get too worked up about anything that comes out of his mouth…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jun 9, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the TLR quote is fair
the anonymous quote sounds like sour grapes to me
by lboros on Jun 9, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the TLR quote is more than fair
I think it is dead on. This is why I want the team to go over slot and at least put forth an effort to sign someone who might, just might, project as a superstar.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one...
who is really looking forward to RB’s analysis of the first three picks tomorrow morning/afternoon? For some reason I feel it we’ll be more thorough and balanced than all the others that will be out there.
Don’t make me wait too long, RB!!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I shall try not to.
Also, I’ll be doing the draft live over at the Rundown this evening, if you’d like my immediate reactions. I don’t guarantee anything resembling thorough or balanced, though, as I just had a wisdom tooth pulled and am all hopped up on painkillers at the moment.
I consider it a grand experiment.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jun 9, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to follow along...
however, I’ll be lucky to see much of the game, or keep an eye on who the Cards pick up. Good luck with the healing…beware of the dry socket!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually,
I’m not sure there’s enough socket to be worried about it getting dry; this is one of those wisdom teeth that had to be cut down to and then chiselled out of the jawbone. So, there’s that.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jun 9, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally,
I plan on taking tomorrow morning off, because I assume RB’s post will be so in-depth and astute, that it will take me 2 hours to read it and two more hours to comprehend it.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would you need to "take time off" to do that?
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 9, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I plan on doing all of that...
at work.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had a lote of Vicodine and wine
after I got my wisdom teeth out. I ended up crying during Cheaper By The Dozen.
Not one of my proudest moments.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 9, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
You sir...
have been rec’d
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even get painpills and that is not the worst part
I went the Dentist just for a regular cleaning. Than he decided that day to take my teeth out. My teeth were already out and grown. I had no problems with him. I didn’t get mine drilled out I got mine pulled out. I seriously thought he was going to break my jaw cause that is what he was using for leverage to pull my teeth out.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 9, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You were conscious?
They knocked me out with the good drugs.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 9, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was conscious
I just got shots all over my mouth to numb it. But I could still feel the pressure of him using my jaw as leverage.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 9, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine
were cut out. Maybe that’s why I got knocked out.
I’ve had A LOT of dental work done. I know that sensation you describe. It’s creepy.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 9, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have to have one cut out too
i’m putting it off. i have no desire to be knocked out ever.
i’ve had two wisdome teeth pulled just like flim, numbed up the gums & pulled them right out. that wasn’t so bad.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had one cut out
not a big deal… root canals, on the other hand…
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had
3 root canals. Only one was horrific. The worst part is keeping your mouth open that long, and the recovery from the wisdom teeth removal was worse.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 9, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had one root canal
really didn;t think it was that big of a deal. Kind of overblown in my opinion.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 9, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've only done the..
knock out drugs when I got my wisdom teeth pulled…but I’d do it again in a heartbeat!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same here
and hell yes I would do it again! I am not so sure that the nurse who took care of me that day would agree with me though.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW: Kevin Goldstein's take on the Cards pick
19. St. Louis Cardinals: This is one of the more fascinating picks in the second half of the round. Jeff Lunhow and his staff play it as close to the vest as any front office in the game. Some have them looking at high school bats, some have them taking classic college performers like Tim Wheeler, and if Kyle Gibson drops this far, he’ll have to be considered. That’s all the stuff that makes sense, but the crazy whispers involve them acting like the big-market team they technically are and making a splash with a signability pick. Matt Purke can’t drop forever… or can he?
Pick: Matt Purke, LHP, Klein HS (TX)
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 9, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh noooo....
Do we really need another flat bill?
by guayzimi on Jun 9, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al just twitched
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 9, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt Purke is the guy,
but for a different reason entirely. I actually think the Cards may very well take one of those signability, high-ceiling picks this year, but I don’t think they’re going to be too keen on Purke’s mechanics, which are very, very high stress. I love the kid’s talent, but if he and, say, Chad James, another hard-throwing HS lefty, are both still available, I would take James in a heartbeat.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jun 9, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chad James sounds good to me, who has all the expertise gleaned from reading his MLB.com scouting report.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Jun 9, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Law is supposedly saying...
that Crow and Scheppers may fall out of the first round due to signability….PLEASE LET ONE OF THEM FALL TO 19!!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
link...
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
question
How many of the available impact players are Boras clients?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 9, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A lot - consensus this is his biggest draft ever.
From an article on Deadspin:
This year, Boras could represent five of the top 10 picks, Strasburg being the jewel of the bunch.
It’s a great article, definitely worth the read. Paints a clearer picture of who Boras really is and what his role is.
Why Scott Boras isn’t as evil as you think he is
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 9, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice link
I’m more concerned, hmm, not so much with Boras, as how many impact players are going to be drafted and then end up not signing. I mean, surely that affects economic decisions made by the ballclub? Even if I personally think they do have to pull the trigger one of these days and take a risk….
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 9, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That anonymous quote
It’s odd that someone would make that comment. There is clearly progress. Whether there is enough progress is up for debate, and that is fair, but to say there is “very little there” when in years past you were picking from a litany of guys like John Gall and Travis Smith….well it strikes me that there is an agenda there. Dare I say it even suggests someone might even not be on board with the build from within philosophy altogether?
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 9, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
tried to post this early
but it’s nice to have a voice of reason about the minor league system and how it is being built up again. just because mozeliak hasn’t made a trade yet he is being made into a scapegoat. the roster management is a definite concern though. I guess they are just trying to get as many guys as possible some major league experience this season.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i think mo's done some dumb things, but the farm isn't one of them.
-Kyle Lohse’s 2nd contract
-Joel Pineiro’s contract
- turning A. Reyes into Luis Perdomo into $50K
- turning Brian Barton into Blaine Boyer into nothing
Those are, at least to varying degrees, fairly called mistakes.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 9, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
they are
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have to add releasing Adam Kennedy
Cause even though Skip is hitting decent his glove is so bad he actually has a negative value
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 9, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think he had a choice there...
too bad we couldn’t have got whoever it was Tampa got from Oakland, but there was no way AK could stay under TLR.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree and I blame AK more for that than LaRussa.
Kennedy was bad, real bad for a while and when his playing time was diminished, it seemed as if he couldn’t handle it and asked for a trade.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's both their faults
AK for sucking & demanding a trade, and Tony being so upset Mini Me wasn’t brought back for a stupid high salary, he kicked & screamed & healed his breath till MO dumped AK.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did?
I somehow missed that part.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, it was well reported Tony wanted AK gone, and he got his wish
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, he wanted him gone
that’s different than what you said.
But, i guess perception is unique to the individual.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was being sarcastic
and i stole that line from HL anyway. he said that about Tony in the past & i found it very, very funny.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I see.
wasn’t aware. my bad.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no worries
.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't like the release of kennedy.
i didn’t like it and i said it at the time.
i lay that more at tony’s feet, though. if he really sincerely couldn’t play nice with adam, then mo was in a bind.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 9, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was kinda Tony's fault
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Respectfully disagree w/Lohse contract
He played well, was an ace minus last year and really stabilized the rotation behind Wainwright. After the FO let guys like Suppan and Morris walk, there was a fair amount of discontent among the fan base, and there was a lot of (still is) discontent, fairly or not, about how competitive the Cardinals want to be, as long as they get their 3 mil fans.
4 yrs/40m is the going rate for a #3 rotation guy; and it was reasonable (still is) to call Lohse a 2 plus or 1 minus guy when healthy. I liked the deal and thought it was a good move to keep a productive player.
Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals
www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com
by MilCardFan on Jun 9, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 years to any pitcher is a bad idea
I would never give any pitcher a deal over 3 years unless you were buying out arbitration years. I think they did over pay for his services especially how the market unfolded. You might say no one could of say that. But it is his job to know these kind of things.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 9, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you'd give up ever having a free agent big name pitcher?
by sdrone on Jun 9, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free Agent Pitcher's almost never work out especially for 4 years
The last one to work out well was Gil Meche
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 9, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Derek Lowe worked out just fine
Johan Santana will probably work out well for the Mets — they’ll get about three years of production out of him in 1.5 seasons or so. Roy Halladay seems to be doing just fine in his second contract…
I see what your saying economically, but I have to disagree with limiting all pitchers to 3 years. If you’re doing that you can’t get any of the top tier free agent pitchers, which means you have to draft them, and drafting a stud and having him top out as being a stud works out less often than just giving a free agent ace the big $$$.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 9, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
the teams that award 5-year deals know that they rarely work out that well. They may be thinking of that contract as a 3-year deal with 2 years of deferred salary at the back end.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree that 4 years tends to work out poorly
but how do we fill a rotation with at least one top tier pitcher without signing longer deals? i’m not disagreeing with you, just curious about your preferred approach.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 9, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
understandable.
i will note that one of the jobs of the GM is to make unpopular but undoubtedly correct decisions — releasing Suppan and Morris were CLEARLY the right decision. add to that Miles . . . who else am I missing here?
we’ve gotten burned far more as an organization by re-signing players who had sentimental value than not. in fact, that’s one thing mozeliak generally does better than jocketty.
the only player I wish we would have kept on after his release this decade was grudzelianek. there’s a hindsight is 20/20 element there.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 9, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure...
that one is all hindsight. I think there was a pretty broad uproar at the time, even by knowledgable baseball people.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i meant more on my part, in a spirit of honesty.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 9, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is this...
honesty you speak of?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
that’s the least by far of those 4 points
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you believe that had we let him go on the open market he gets ANYWHERE close to that contract?
3/36 at best
by FunkeeC on Jun 9, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that case,
we’re paying him $4M for one more season.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 9, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
but we didn’t know that at the time. I was one who thought the deal was too rich when it was signed, and WAY too rich a couple of months later.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
by 2+ or 1-...
do you mean a top of the rotation starter? I don’t think a reasonable (non-agent) person would call Lohse that. He is a solid #3, and can fill in as a #2, but he’s no where close to a #1 pitcher.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1- is a bit zealous
I s’pose. But whether he’s a good #2 or #3, I still contend he was money well spent.
Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals
www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com
by MilCardFan on Jun 9, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Posted this over at minorleagueball.com but seems appropriate here also
Quantifying signing a Draftee Earlier than Later
What kind of difference in value do you think their is between signing a draftee right after the draft or negotiating till August? How much more valuable is it to a team to sign a player earlier and allow them to get into the system faster? Allowing a player to play rookie play his first season till having to wait till 2010 to play his first stint at organized ball.
I think a good example is the Cardinals Brett Wallace. He was signed quickly and than went on to have a good second half of baseball and than a good season of Winterball in AZ. What kind of value did the Cardinal’s gain by signing Wallace earlier and getting that first half season out of the way? It could be argued that by doing it they will get Wallace a half season sooner if they didn’t.
My whole point is that if additional value is gained by signing a player earlier. Wouldn’t a draftee before he actually starts playing top value be immediately after he got drafted? So does it make sense to over pay a draftee early to get him playing soon as possible?
I don’t know the answer to these questions but would like to hear your guys thoughts.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 9, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Conserative Picks vs High Value picks
I think the Organization made the right choice at the time to restock the farm with a lot of low risk/low upside picks. But their is problems with this idea that is going to be shown this December. We are going to have over 50 close to 60 guys exposed to the Rule 5 draft. When your minor system’s value is in C prospects than you risk losing them in future years through the Rule 5 draft.
While Concentrating on high value/high risk picks less succeed but the ones that do have higher value. So you also have less guys that you are forced to protect for the Rule 5 draft.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 9, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who is responsible?
-If the front office says all off-season they believe they have a team that contend
-Said team starts the season 10 games over .500
-Then goes the next 34 games, 14-20
So, who is responsible? Someone has to be.
If it’s the players, stop making fringe roster moves. Make real lineup changes to improve your chances to win. Move players off the 25 man roster that aren’t helping the team in any real way.
If it’s the manager, hold him accountable for making poor use of the roster resources he has or for publicly flogging certain players while seeming to give others a free pass.
The poor play falls on someone. Maybe it’s a combination of both. But continually playing Wellemeyer, Ankiel and Duncan and expecting any of the 3 to suddenly change the fate of the team seems to be turning a blind eye to what is really happening on the field.
LaRussa is the player’s boss, Mozeliak is LaRussa’s boss. If neither seems willing to actually bring about positive changes to the big league team, their boss needs to step in.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
that's my biggest complaint
is the bizarre roster use over this season and the last
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically
2 1/2 games behind the lead is pretty much the definition of “being a contender”.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our Pythag is 30-28, 2 games over .500
over the course of the season ‘d be 84 wins. That’s average, at best.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
average...
but contending as promised.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who get's the credit when the team performs well?
Tony does, because he has way of making a team seem to overachieve( I do not nec. agree with this), so Tony should also get the blame when things aren’t going so well.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been struggling with the concept...
of TLR’s influence on performance the last couple of years. Sure he gets the best out of some marginal players, but (especially this season) he seems to be finding a way to make the team underachieve at every turn.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but Tony doesn't get credit around here.
Plenty of people (myself included, although not quite as vehemently as others) understand that the managers influence (especially in winning games) is much less than what it was thought of for so long.
So, if most people around here don’t give him credit for the success, should he be blamed for the failures?
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Short answer?
No. Long answer? Yes.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know (knew?) the answer to the question before I asked it.
I just thought it was worth asking for some reason.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 10, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I waver on this
I really do think that the players should get most of the credit, and most of the blame. I also think that Tony goes way out there sometimes in an attempt to make sure his fingerprints are all over the game. The way I look at it is if he is willing to continue to put multiple players who are slumping horribly/obviously injured in the lineup at the same time (like he has way too often these last two years), he should get more of a blame for the losses than other managers would.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 10, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't want to start a pissing war...
but does Mo have the cajones to give it to TLR (if that is the proper course of action)? I guess what I’m saying is…who is really the boss? On paper it’s Mo…in my perception it’s TLR.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got the impression last year
especially last year, that LaRussa had lost a little of his power. He’s railed about the “impact bat” and the “proven closer” but Mo hasn’t gotten them. Maybe he tried, but did he try (or have the support of ownership’s money) the same way Jocketty did when LaRussa made his demands?
I think LaRussa has (for the most part) learned he needs to accept the young guys because that’s really all he’s gonna be seeing for the foreseeable future. And that wasn’t the case when Jock was in town.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how accurate our perceptions are
More than a few people around here seem to imagine that there are massive conflicts between LaRussa/Duncan on one hand and Mo/Lunhow on the other hand, and that whenever a veteran gets cut or rookie gets brought up, it’s somehow Mo sticking it to LaRussa, or if a rookie/prospect gets released or veteran added it’s Mo giving in to La Russa.
I would not be entirely surprised if these so called “conflicts” are completely overblown and the organization’s decision process is much more collaborative.
by bailorg on Jun 9, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus batting cleanup tonight
Cards Lineup tonight vs. FLA:
Schumaker 4
Duncan 7
Pujols 3
Rasmus 8
Ankiel 9
Molina 2
T. Greene 5
Carpenter 1
Ryan 6
by Glowsticks on Jun 9, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense
What doesn’t make sense is that Duncan and Ankiel keep getting higher positions in the order, guaranteeing two of our worst hitters more ABs than other players.
Also makes no sense that Ludwick is not playing, again.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick and ankiel are hitting about the same
since comming back from the DL. Makes no sense why they weren’t in Memphis before returning to the team.
Hopefully Rasmus can help that clean up spot.
Im okay with Duncan in the 2 hole only due to his past history in the 2 hole. As far as Ankiel’s spot in the order. Well, the 4 guys behind him aren’t doing to much so far. I guess Ryan there maybe…
by Evilfrog on Jun 9, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick also needs to play
because he has a much better chance of being with this team past July 30th.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Also, I personally have more faith extra playing time will help him where I feel nothing positive in regards to Ankiel “coming out of it”.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
at least Ank and Dunc aren't back to back
that just kills me.
Ludwick is the most important guy to get going on this team by far, and of course he isn’t playing.
by TheBirds on Jun 9, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weird
no Luddy
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
should be used to it by now
but the guy needs to be playing, neither Dunc or Ank are as good
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I lost track of the OF rotation
my only hope for tonight is that they are facing a good pitcher who throws hard and is right handed. That plus Carp should equal a victory and an offensive explosion for a 4-2 win
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
VEB hates me today
I guess if I want anything I write to be shared with the public, I need to say it all in the title
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see it
the thing just isn’t working very well today, I’ve had the same issues
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OF Rotation
Since 5/29 (Luddy’s first game back), OF starts:
Ankiel 8
Duncan 7
Ludwick 9
Rasmus 6
Schumaker 1 (9 at 2B)
Stavinoha 2
WPA:
Ankiel -.605 (two positive games v nine negative ones)
Duncan -.046 (one game @ +.221 v eight @ +.001 or worse)
Ludwick -.654 (1 positive v 9 negative)
Rasmus +.146 (5 positive v 5 negative)
Schumaker -.124 (3 positive v 7 negative)
Stavinoha +.240 (1 ph AB @ +.234, neutral otherwise – neutral may not be very sexy, but it sure beats a daily dose of suck)
I agree that Ludwick is probably the best option (of Rick/Dunc/Luddy) going forward, but he could use a game on the bench.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jun 9, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we really need him to step it up
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it doesn't get much more rotational than that.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luddy vs. Johnson - 0-3 with 2Ks
Ankiel vs Johnson – 1-2 with a BB
Obviously Ankiel is the better choice tonight
by Glowsticks on Jun 9, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TLR?
Is that you?
I knew you read this…not for advice (obviously), but for constructive criticism you can then promply disregard.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, let's put the worse OF defender we got in LF in a big OF
makes perfect fucking sense.
if i’m Ludwick, i call my agent & demand a trade. it’s flat out bullshit the two headed scrubs of Dick & Duck get to start over him.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Left field in Land Shark is not big at all
Very Short Fence.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well yeah if he plays right on the line
it’s still a big OF & he has no business starting over Ludwick
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't look now
but the scrubs are a game behind (along with ’natti)
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Small Bears and WPA
Over the past 30 days, the worst WPA by hitters goes to our hometown St. Louis Cardinals ( -3.48). 2nd worst? The Cubs @ -3.06.
That said, their pitching has posted a +3.06, which is the 2nd best in all of baseball in the same timeframe, behind the Rangers (Cards 6th @ +1.98). Both numbers appear to be heavily influenced by “clutchiness”, as the Redbirds actually have the 2nd best WPA/LI (WPA with the game state removed, basically raw pitching results converted to WPA) with the Small Bears 4th.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
by Solanus on Jun 9, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much is Luhnow's fault though?
For not signing high ceiling picks? Porcello is a great example – the Cardinals didn’t take him, presumably because they didn’t want to pay him. Instead taking Kozma. And wasn’t there some other case they drafted a guy pretty high, but couldn’t sign him.
Stuff like that isn’t his fault, but the Cardinals being, well, cheap.
by DiscoJer on Jun 9, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're thinking of Kyle Russell from Texas.
They drafted him in 2007 in the 4th round. He had been hyped up since he was the College HR king but had major signability concerns and hadn’t proven he could hit with a wood bat (I think he had actually failed pretty miserably in the Cape Cod League or something).
So, they drafted him in the 4th and he held out for 1st round money then either went back to school or played independent ball somewhere because he “got a bad vide” and then got drafted last year in the 3rd round by the Dodgers and currently he’s in the Midwest League (low A) and hitting homeruns (15) and striking out a lot (72 times in 56 games or 239 PA). He’s got a line of .286, .364, .586, .950 but he’s also 23 years old in low A and should be killing the ball there. He should get promoted soon, so it’ll be interesting to see how he handles A+ pitching at the very least, but he should be in AA by the end of the year to have any real idea how good he’ll be.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haf forgotten all about him
thanks for the info there
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jeff said in the past Dewitt told him not to draft Porcello
so yeah, they went cheap just like a lot of other teams did with Porcello
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon thinks Pedro is the answer
How much longer are they going to let this guy mail it in?
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 9, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Vintage Gordo
He always makes me think — “Yup, Jeff, NOBODY else would have thought of that….”
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 9, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but what's the question?
Because it can’t be “who is the best option to solve our pitching worries”.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who should i vote for?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 9, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which OF'er is going to get bumped?
Daryl Jones is likely to be promoted to AAA Memphis on or around July 2nd. He’ll likely go into the starting lineup, as they wouldn’t promote the team’s likely future leadoff hitter to have him sit the bench.
That means at MLB and AAA, there is going to have to be a shift in the rosters. Who gets bumped out?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe they are giving Ank his last chances now
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allen Craig to STL? or is he at 1B?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they are DFA'ing Boyer, going with the 7 man 'pen and promoting Craig.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 9, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I see...
Mather coming up before Craig…40 man roster concerns and all.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I truly believe mather has the potential to be a star.
by TheBirds on Jun 9, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As do I...
I was very glad to know that his poor April could be tied to a wrist injury. The guy is incredibly athletic for a big man. I think he could be an everyday player OPSing in the .825 – .850 range.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the outfield would be more appropriately aligned
as
CF Rasmus
LF Jones
RF Ludwick
by t7rick on Jun 9, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
for the record
I love night games that start at 6pm CT. wish they all started at 6
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wish they all started...
at whatever time was most convenient for me. Tonight 6:00 is good.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no kidding.
Sometimes that 9pm central start for West Coast games works out perfectly for me.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 9, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have softball from 6-7
so a 7:00 start would be better for me tonight.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 9, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry
you won’t miss a lot of offense from the Cards, so you have that going for you.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the game could be in the 7th by the time he turns in
w/ Carp pitching, though.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 9, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or...
you’re likely to miss the only two runs we score tonight…in the first inning.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 9, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
breaking tweets.
kyle lohse out till AT LEAST ASB. puppy kicker as starter pro tempore.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 9, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
over under on # of puppy kicker starts before replacement:
2
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 9, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
by who? Boggs?
Mort? you think they’ll really do that? i don’t.
i’m not surprised about Kyle. they said last week he’d be out at least a month. so pushing him past the ASB is something i was already thinking they would do.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 9, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shit!
how could that injury be that bad? probably because they didn’t let him heal up first?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been trying to tell ya
he has thrown his last pitch for the Cardinals
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 9, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatevs
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This way if he ever does throw well for the Cards again, it will be happy, happy times
The way injuries have ravaged this team, I am not going to tempt the GOBs, even if he does have 3 years left on that contract.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 10, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just checked the score
WHERE THE HELL IS RASMUS?! ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??!!!
They x-rayed my head and didn't find anything.
Dizzy Dean
by DizzyDean on Jun 12, 2009 8:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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