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The College Pitcher Fallacy Redux

 

I posted my views on the desirability of drafting a college pitcher vs. drafting a high school pitcher about a week ago, but I was traveling quite a bit and didn’t have to time to follow/rebut the conversation.  I wanted to have another go at it, so I figured I needed to do some additional research in order to make it worth anyone’s time to read it.

 

First, I want to address a couple of points that were raised in response to the original post.  I thought I actually addressed one of them, but I guess not since it didn’t seem to get through.  Maybe I am the only one who thinks it makes any sense.  That point would be that only measuring performance for the years a player is under team control is an incomplete analysis.  Obviously, the first sixish years are ones every team can count on and should be looked at closely, but my point is that the only chance the Cardinals have to obtain a top of the rotation starter is to develop and retain one.  If you are one of the small market teams that is going to lose every single player the minute they are eligible for free agency then it makes sense to look at those years only. 

 

I hope the Cardinals are a team that can make a run at retaining their best players.  If someone knows for a fact that they aren’t please tell me now so I can stop yammering and quit being a Cardinal fan.  After all, the Cardinals have signed Adam Wainwright through his first two free agent years, at least if you count club options.  I think the ability to have a Wainwright-type pitcher signed for what should be significantly below market for two additional years shows that the Cardinals are a team that needs to look beyond the team control years in making value assessments.  In fact, it is probably their only hope to be successful in the long run.    

 

I think it is particularly important to emphasize that strategy as the Cardinals have utterly failed to sign a top-tier free agent starting pitcher that was available on the open market.  I can’t remember a top starting pitcher that has ever signed with the Cardinals unless they were already on the team.  Chris Carpenter was a dumpster dive, Adam Wainwright was obtained via trade, Daryl Kile was also a trade, Matt Morris was a draft pick.  However, each of these pitchers has signed contracts to remain with the Cardinals and bypassed potential free agency.

 

Secondly, someone raised the issue that looking at the statistical leaders in an attempt to find out where the elite pitchers come from is somehow a small sample size issue.  I may be obtuse, but I don’t see how looking at a three-year running total of all innings pitched by all major league pitchers is a small sample problem just because you are only interested in who the best ones are.  Especially if you have already analyzed fifteen years of data to attempt to identify where top of the rotation starters come from and have data that supports the same conclusion.  Anyway, I digress. 

 

I have reviewed fangraphs WAR data for all MLB pitchers since 2002 and isolated a running group of pitchers that were the top 35 in WAR for each three year interval – e.g. 2002-2004, 2003-2005, 2004-2006, etc through the 2008 season.  It made sense to me that sustained success would win out over any single outstanding season.  The results clearly indicate to me that high school pitchers have significantly more upside than college pitchers and should be considered at least as desirable when making a draft decision. 

 

For each of the running three year intervals there were about twice as many HS pitchers in the top 35 as college pitchers in spite of the fact that there are on average about 50% more college pitchers are drafted and signed in each draft, especially in the first five rounds.  Of the top 35 starters in these five intervals two-thirds of the pitchers were consistently players drafted and signed out of high school while only one third were drafted out of college.  The percentage of WAR achieved by HS players ranged from 62.1% in 2002-2004 to 70.4% in 2004-2006.  For the most recent period, 2006-2008, HS pitchers accounted for 238.6 WAR while the college guys only earned 125.8.

 

When the comparison is limited just to pitchers drafted in the first round the results are very interesting.  In the first interval examined (2002-2004) there were more than twice as many 1st round college pitchers in the top 35 as there were HS pitchers with the college guys earning 89.9 WAR to only 40.3 for the HS kids.  However, the trend has been in favor of the HS guys as both the number of 1st round pitchers and their respective WAR are have increased substantially.  By 2006-2008, the roles were reversed with 60% of the first round picks represented being from HS and the WAR advantage being 82.1 to 44.6.  For the entire period from 2002 to 2008 there were 22 1st round picks from college and 25 from HS. 

 

Maybe all I succeed in doing here is showing my lack of statistical sophistication and wasting everyone’s time, but I think these data show that any club that bypasses HS pitchers in the draft in favor of college pitchers is missing out on a superior talent pool.  This may not prove that HS pitchers are better, but I don’t see how anyone can view this information and still believe it is a better idea to draft college pitchers.   Unless, of course, you are Pittsburgh, Kansas City, or some other hopeless small market team who can’t/won’t sign your best players.  By the way, Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, and Kyle Lohse were signed out of high school. 



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But...

don’t we need some more college pitchers turned middle relievers? Or haven’t you heard that we’ve got a really short bullpen? We can trade away position players with value to get middle relievers but we can’t keep them for long because they go bad after 5 inning performances. Heck, Todd went bad after less than 2 innings! We’ll run out of arms in the bullpen if we don’t draft college pitchers. Maybe we can get Pete Kozma to pitch middle relief!! If his BA agaisnt is anything like his current BA, we will be set for at least 5-10 solid mop up innings!!

/end sarcasm

Good post. I tend to agree. I’m kind of tired of the Cards system only developing relief pitchers and 5th starters.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Jun 7, 2009 9:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mmmmmm... Phallusy

Sorry. Couldn’t resist after the last fanpost :-)

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 10:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is why people complained about sample size.
When the comparison is limited just to pitchers drafted in the first round the results are very interesting. In the first interval examined (2002-2004) there were more than twice as many 1st round college pitchers in the top 35 as there were HS pitchers with the college guys earning 89.9 WAR to only 40.3 for the HS kids. However, the trend has been in favor of the HS guys as both the number of 1st round pitchers and their respective WAR are have increased substantially. By 2006-2008, the roles were reversed with 60% of the first round picks represented being from HS and the WAR advantage being 82.1 to 44.6. For the entire period from 2002 to 2008 there were 22 1st round picks from college and 25 from HS.

since nobody says “never draft a HS pitcher, period,” but they do say “you probably shouldn’t draft a HS pitcher in the first round,” I don’t think the analysis looking at college and HS pitchers, without considering the round in which they were drafted, addresses the issue. if a few 5th, 8th and 11th round HS pitchers are supplying value, it doesn’t tell you much about whether you’re better off drafting a HS pitcher in the first round.

what i do see is that your actual results relating to the FIRST ROUND draftees are not determinative. in one sample the college pitchers are more valuable and in another the HS pitchers are. i’m reluctant to call that a “trend” based on what you’ve presented. i don’t know anything about the 2003-05, 2004-2006, and 2005-07 groups, for instance.

maybe there’s more information that you relied on, but i can only look at what’s in your post. you only addressed first round draftees in one paragraph. given that that’s the crux of the argument — not whether one should EVER draft a high schooler — i’m not persuaded.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 8, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would have put the rest of the numbers in the original post

but I really suck at tables.

Here are all the data:

College:

2002-2004: 7 pitchers, 89.9 WAR
2003-2005: 5 pitchers, 69 WAR
2004-2006: 3 pitchers, 42.7 WAR
2005-2007: 3 pitchers, 33 WAR
2006-2008: 4 pitchers, 44.6 WAR

High School:

2002-2004: 3 pitchers, 40.3 WAR
2003-2005: 3 pitchers, 37.1 WAR
2004-2006: 6 pitchers, 75.6 WAR
2005-2007: 7 pitchers, 93.1 WAR
2006-2008: 6 pitchers, 82.1 WAR

Bear in mind that for the last twenty years 50% more college pitchers have been taken than HS pitchers and the trend is accelerating to a nearly 2-1 ratio in the last several years.

So, if you are looking for the very best pitchers in the first round of the draft recent data suggests that the HS picks are outperforming the college guys and if you are looking at the draft overall, it has been a trend for many years that a disproportionate amount of HS picks are becoming top line starters as compared to college picks.

I would still rather have a position player in the first round, but I just hope they are looking at all pitchers and making a valid decision rather than continuing the trend of, mistakenly, believing that college guys are a better pick. erik’s article at futureredbirds showed that the washout rate for HS 1st round pitchers from 90-99 was 70% and college pitchers were at 68%. The only real valid preference is if you just want a guy who will get to the big leagues quicker, even if he might not be as good.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jun 9, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Selection bias

To me, this trend tells me more about how good you have to be to be selected as a high school pitcher in the first round than it does about the quality of high school draftees versus college draftees.

In the end, it probably is more a matter of whether you want immediate help soon, or whether you want to take a more long term approach. I do wish they would just go to a wooden bat in college, though. It would make scouting so much easier.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jun 9, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why

don’t they use wooden bats? Seems like a bo-brainer of a decision, being that many go to college in the hopes of improving their draft status…. What is the reason for aluminum?

by cdb on Jun 11, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

money!

it is hard to break an aluminum bat

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 11, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

studies have shown

it’s cheaper for a program to use wood bats, though

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 11, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fascinating

really? I would have never thought that would be the case.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 11, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Proof!

I need proof!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jun 11, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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