The state of the staff
Only the Braves’ starting pitching has been better than the Cards so far this season, Wellemeyer’s futility notwithstanding. The pen hasn’t been quite so good, as we found out Friday night, but if the starters continue to pitch well, it may not have to be. Our starters have thrown more than 67% of the team’s innings so far this year and have an FIP of 3.67. Our pen’s FIP is almost a run per game higher than the starters at 4.53 – 12th in the NL. See for yourself:
| S-Inn | R-Inn | S-Inn% | S-FIP | R-FIP | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ari | 326 | 172 | 65 | 4.50 | 3.81 |
| Atl | 318.2 | 158.1 | 67 | 3.53 | 3.61 |
| Chc | 315.1 | 142.2 | 69 | 4.12 | 4.86 |
| Cin | 330 | 159 | 67 | 4.70 | 4.11 |
| Col | 313 | 160 | 66 | 4.25 | 4.19 |
| Fla | 309.1 | 199 | 61 | 4.46 | 4.13 |
| Hou | 301 | 179.2 | 63 | 4.32 | 4.90 |
| LAD | 319.2 | 190.1 | 63 | 3.83 | 3.88 |
| Mil | 319.1 | 165.1 | 66 | 5.15 | 3.74 |
| NYM | 308.1 | 165.1 | 65 | 4.10 | 3.61 |
| Phi | 301.2 | 173.1 | 64 | 5.30 | 4.46 |
| Pit | 327.1 | 141.1 | 70 | 4.54 | 4.84 |
| SDG | 306.1 | 175.2 | 64 | 4.40 | 4.23 |
| SFG | 315 | 155.1 | 67 | 3.88 | 4.09 |
| StL | 329.1 | 160.2 | 67 | 3.67 | 4.53 |
| Wsh | 295 | 178.2 | 62 | 5.01 | 4.70 |
The bottom line is that, compared to most of the other NL teams, we’re getting a lot out of our starters. They’re pitching relatively deep into games and pitching quite well, by and large. But the success of Carpenter, Pineiro and, of late, Wainwright tends to mask the problems that the bullpen has had. If you look at their ERAs, most of them don’t look too bad. However, if you look a little deeper at their peripherals you’ll notice that some of them – particularly Franklin, McClellan, and Perez – haven’t pitched quite as well as we’d like to believe.
| K/9 | BB/9 | BABIP | FIP | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Motte | 7.54 | 3.57 | .286 | 2.79 |
| Franklin | 6.86 | 2.14 | .188 | 3.71 |
| Thompson | 3.68 | 1.23 | .298 | 3.82 |
| Boyer | 4.96 | 2.76 | .260 | 3.94 |
| McClellan | 6.92 | 4.85 | .196 | 4.33 |
| Reyes | 9.82 | 4.30 | .321 | 4.37 |
| Miller | 9.00 | 2.40 | .287 | 4.54 |
| Perez | 11.21 | 7.13 | .264 | 4.84 |
There’s no way that Franklin’s or McClellan’s BABIP will be sustainable throughout the season and Perez has to get that walk rate down if he’s going to get meaningful innings going forward. On the bright side, I’m starting to believe that Jason Motte, Friday night’s meltdown notwithstanding, is the real deal. I hope I’m right.
Related to the bullpen, perhaps someone out there can help me understand this. On Friday, we DFA’d Blaine Boyer – a guy we traded Brian Barton for just a month ago and a pitcher who’s better than at least Brad Thompson and possibly 1 or 2 other guys in the pen – so that we could recall Jess Todd from Memphis. He’s pitching well at Memphis and is going to help our pen, right? Um….no. The plan from the beginning is to call Todd up FOR 1 GAME ONLY!!!!! To do this, we have to add him to our 40 man roster, thus leaving only 1 spot vacant, AND start his arbitration clock. We did this so that he could pitch 1 game in relief – in a game we lost 11-4. After that one game, we send him back to Memphis – again, this was the plan all along – and recall starter Blake Hawksworth, who’s been pitching well for the Redbirds. Rather than having him start in Lohse’s spot Monday, he goes into the pen and reliever Brad Thompson will take Lohse’s start instead. Now, Hawksworth ostensibly couldn’t be called up a day early b/c he last pitched on May 31. Then we used him for 2 innings on June 6. Could we not have used him for the 1.2 innings that Todd pitched on June 5 and kept the space vacant on the 40 man roster? Could we not have kept Boyer on the roster 1 more game and kept the space vacant on the 40 man roster? What in God’s name is going on? And still, despite the fact that our starters are throwing more than 2/3 of the innings – a greater % than at least 9 other NL teams – we still insist on keeping 8 relievers in the pen while allowing Wainwright and Wellemeyer to pinch hit! Some of this absolutely defies explanation. There was absolutely no need to add Todd to the 40 man roster or start his clock. We could have used Boyer Friday night or DFA’d him and called up Hawksworth and used him instead. I know it’s tantamount to heresy to question the Cards’ roster management but some of this is absolutely absurd! And yet somehow we’re 7 over .500! Wow!
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145 comments
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Comments
We are actually 2 games back of the Brewers
so, feel free to question the roster management.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2009 2:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
when the Cards do not make the playoffs, it won't be because of injuries
or the misdiagnosis of injured players. it won’t be because they can’t score runs, it won’t be because MO won’t make a big trade, or any trade for that matter. it won’t be because they can’t hold leads, or pitch well enough to get any leads. it will be because TLR & MO royally fucked up the roster management. which of course has lead all of their current problems not injury related. this whole Boyer/Barton/Todd/Hawksworth fiasco, the 45 man pen, and Colby being benched for Dick & Dunk are the biggest sins that are right now costing them much needed wins.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 7, 2009 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big trade?
What big trade is going to fix the team? Is adding Matt Holliday at a King’s ransom really going to suddenly make the team score 6 runs a game? Is Mark Derosa?
The team is honestly a starting pitcher and 2 good bats away from being a World Series team. If they can’t get those (and they can’t), trading Daryl Jones, Chris Perez or Mitchell Boggs for a 6 month rental isn’t worth it.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1M
The team is honestly a starting pitcher and 2 good bats away from being a World Series team.
Short term: I’m ready to swap Boggs for Welly in the rotation.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on Jun 7, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boggs should've stayed in there
possibly since last year!
My Cards Blog - We're in and out of First & it's June
by dylaninthewall on Jun 7, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think welly's looked too bad
his start last night was fine. He was really unlucky that the two dingers he happened to give were after a couple of walks, and I didn’t think either of them were especially bad pitches (the first, in particular, I was AMAZED to see go out – when stewart hit it I was thinking it was a lazy, high fly to 2B…). Walks are obviously hurting him but with a bit more luck last night he could’ve pitched the same game and given up 2 ER in 7 innings and we’d all be saying “Welly’s coming round again”. If having wellemeyer’s production as our 5th starter is our biggest worry, we’re doing OK.
Unfortunately, our anemic offence is the big worry. I’m not really sure how we solve that.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And as regards the roster management.
I’m pretty much speechless. Frankly, it’s been so bad (and it’s such a facile side of the game) I really don’t trust the management at all anymore. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that it displays a pretty concerning lack of basic knowledge of how to manage a team.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is funny.....
Have they “lacked this knowledge” for 30 years, or did they just forget sometime recently?
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 7, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Old age + alcohol
will kill brain cells.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Have they "lacked this knowledge" for 30 years
TLR, I guess so.
Mozeliak has only been GM two years, so I guess not.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention the game has changed considerably
since Moneyball and Revenue Sharing. Walt Sr. flat out admitted he can’t be tricky anymore because of rev sharing.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jun 7, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Questioning the logic
How “unlucky” is it that when he doesn’t have good control and walks people, and then doesn’t have good control and gets a couple dingers off of him? Sounds like poor pitching.
by stlfan on Jun 7, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
We need a SP and a couple of bats. Keep Luds and Rasmus in the OF after that I don’t care who they get to play LF as long as he can hit. Get us a 3B with some pop. He doesn’t have to be the next Mike Schmidt just better than what we have now with a decent glove.
I want Boggs up. I don’t know why they have been screwing around with the roster when the easiest thing to do when Lohse went down would have been to bring up Boggs. He did fine filling in for Carp why not Lohse?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, they are only two players away from the world series
too bad those players are Ruth & Gehrig
i totally agree with you & everyone else that states giving up king’s ransom for a rental is the biggest of bad moves MO can make. i was simply saying that’s not going to be one of the reason why they won’t make the playoffs, but some fans & media will spin it as such. sorry for the confusion, i thought i made my point clearer than that.
a big trade isn’t going to happen. no one wants what the Cards want to give up. they all want Colby, YP, ASauce, Walrus, Jay, etc. players the Cards cannot afford to give up. while the Cards should be trying to dump Ank, Dunk, Skippy etc, they can’t unless they include one or more of their prime prospects. and doing that like i already said, would be a fail of epic proportions.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 7, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have two big problems.
1: Pinero and Wellemeyer won’t sustain their performance over the season. Pinero is basically the same pitcher as Thompson but more expensive. Neither strike anyone out and neither really walk anyone. So its all up to the defense when either is on the mound.
2: Duncan and Ankiel are looking like one year wonders. We build a team around a slugging OF, and thats not what we have gotten so far. The OF OPS of (.778, .771, .753, and .668) averages out to what you would expect from a SS/2B. Whats worse is 2 of them are sub-par defensive players.
We build this team around a healthy Glaus and productive OF. We have neither so far. I think its reasonable to expect Ludwick to turn it around and get going. Rasmus was starting to look good in CF before his playing time got cut. We just have to hope one of Duncan, Ankiel, or Stav can be average in LF.
3B is a problem, not a problem of design but one of injury. Our primary, backup and 2nd Backup are all hurt. I don’t see how you predict this going into the season. That said our fill in has been serviceable on offense.
SS was expected to be a strength, but has fallen back to average. We can debate if out expectations were reasonable or not, but we spent money to try to upgrade the position. It didn’t work out.
The Pen is not going to be a make or break item for this team. Perez is as likely to get his BB/9 down as Franklin is to implode. We should have 3-4 useful relievers out of the pile for the games where we get to the 6th with any sort of lead. The problem will be getting to that point.
by DriverZn on Jun 7, 2009 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice to be optimistic
but poor roster management, make that staggeringly baffling management, is still a serious problem. not so much because it affects this year’s team, but because of the talent judgments it reflects.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 7, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
to bring up what warcard already posted:
Comments by Mozeliak in Burwell article this morning seem to indicate that all is well in Card Nation. Mo says he does not understand why everyone is so anxious for the Cards to make a move. He says that you would think the team is in last place instead of first place with all of the criticism.
Well, John, I hope you’ve been watching the last two games. THAT is why. We need to keep first place, not enjoy the fact that we were once there.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 7, 2009 4:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2 games shouldn't be the indicator
and, normally, I would be on the same page w/ Mo here. I think fans panic too quickly . My main concern is that I really don’t see any way that Ankiel’s going to start developing any patience at the plate and I don’t see any way that Duncan’s going to regain his power. Therefore, they’re both a waste of a spot in the batting order. Combine that w/ the lack of production we’re getting from 3rd base and, short of Glaus returning and playing as he did last year, this team’s going to have big trouble scoring runs all season.
by chuckb on Jun 7, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny how a month or so ago the last thing we were worried about was offense..
It would be interesting to take a look at all the positive comments we use to throw at the offense.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we coasted
on rookies not being “booked” by the opposition. failure of all but schu and apu (+maybe boog) to make adjustments is killing the offense. we can’t get by bringing in new people (rookie of the month or not) if they don’t sustain.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 7, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. I guess once the scouting reports made the rounds it was bound to end.
As much as I rail on Thruston at least he looks like he is making adjustments.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree on thursty
adjusting better than rick-dick with equivalent playing tme
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 7, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the problem
is we have two many of these “needs to make adjustments to succeed” players. We need someone who actually knows how to play from the get-go. I do commend him for working on it, but there’s no past evidence to prove he’s going to turn into anything that will win games for us.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 7, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay
I guess that should’ve read past two “weeks.” I mean, honestly, it hasn’t only been the past two games. That really wasn’t my point. My point with the “past two games” was more that “if you’ve been watching the past two games it should be glaringly obvious that we need to fix this team.”
Comment was put up with haste. Guess I should’ve explained myself better.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 7, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charley Dressen, Dodger's manager, was once down by about eight runs in the 7th. He told the team,. . .
. . .just hold ‘um right here. "I’ll think of something!"
Seems that’s the spirt of the team’s inexplicable roster juggling and the faith in in Dick & Dunc. I don’t see the games, but I listen daily, and it appears the team is completely listless. They executve poorly, do not seem aggressive. Other than Carp’s starts, they seem to be waiting to be kicked about. . . and are not disapponted for long.
Christ, even fi there WERE to be a fire sale now, on the 25 man roster outside of five or six obvious players, who would even draw any interest?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jun 7, 2009 4:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Showcase
The latest movements must be related to showcasing talent at ML level. I feel a big move coming, but think it will be Peavy, not a bat. Its my guess they want to sit tight for Glaus return. Otherwise I am at a loss as to why we are doing this.
If it is Peavy, I’m ok with trying to win 1-0 every night and hoping for some combo of Luddy/Ankiel returns to form/Glaus returns/cheap rental.
Just win
by The Duke on Jun 7, 2009 6:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well if it is a showcase then it sucked...Todd and Hawksworth both got lit up. Ank and Dunc still are sucking.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would NEVER take on Peavy's salary
by Walking Underwear on Jun 7, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I don't think so either but are there other arms available that we could get for less money?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly think they have just enough starting pitching
If the damn offense were producing like last year I’d have no problem going to the playoffs with a 3-man rotation of Carp, Waino, and Lohse assuming they’re all healthy. I do like the idea of bringing in Boggs to take over Wellemeyer’s starts.
by Walking Underwear on Jun 7, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Boggs should be up regardless with Lohse down we need him and if they don't resign Piniero,
I would think he gets Joels’ spot in the rotation next year.
Wellemeyer is okay as a fifth starter. He isn’t terrible although some games he looks that way but that’s just baseball.
I wonder how Wellemeyer would look in the pen now after starting for almost 2 years.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wellemeyer's contract expires this season too.
I don’t really think they’ll try to sign either one of them but I could be wrong. And I think Piniero has looked better than Welly this season. But that’s just my opinion. He has given the team more quality starts I think. But your right Boggs should be in right now.
by Walking Underwear on Jun 7, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thougt Welley had a year or two of arbitration left?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong but I thought he was a free agent at years end
by Walking Underwear on Jun 7, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just checked it out your right , I'm wrong...
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blech.
Just, blech.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 7, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Duncan, I don't think
will ever hit with much power. Watch him hit. He hits entirely with his arms. He looks like a big strong kid that just walked on a baseball diamond knowing nothing about how to hit and the coach calls him over and says, "hey kid, you’re a big guy,grab a bat, we need a long one.
Watch his lower body, the hips, legs. nothing ever moves. just the arms and a little twist of the waist. Never seen anybody hit like that except a few pitchers.
He must really have strong hands and arms though to hit one as far as he does occassionally.
by ridgesee on Jun 7, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think someone pointed out once that due to his surgery it might take awhile for his strength to come back.
When that happens it will be like trading for an all-star 40 homerun guy without giving anything up.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Similar to drafting somenone named Kozma and passing on someone named Porcello . . .
Whoops, according to Mo we don’t talk about that one. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jun 7, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was funny.
He knows Lunhow screwed the pooch on that one.
Lunhow said he doesn’t like to approach Dewit with such high risk costly investments in players. Maybe we need a new draft Tzar who has some balls.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. I was waiting for that...
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just dropped Duncan
in fantasy so he will probably start to hit like a madman. It’s my contribution to the offensive effort.
My Cards Blog - We're in and out of First & it's June
by dylaninthewall on Jun 7, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He moves his hips.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would anyone covet any of the Cards outfielders not named Rasums, and he ain't playing.
Is it possible our best players are on the bench. One only can hope they ain’t on the field!
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jun 7, 2009 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and why not?
Rasmus is 7 for his last 18 and hasn’t started in, what, the last 3 games. Article on the PD today lauding Ankiel for a 5 game hitting streak, in which he has a grand total of 5 hits. Sure, Dick may be coming around a little bit with a few extra base hits, but I do not understand completely ignoring that Raz was starting to get going and then suddenly he finds himself on the bench. I mean, come on, even Al noticed the other night that Raz is swinging a hot bat right now. Why doesn’t TLR notice that??
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jun 7, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bright side to this mess...
For all the Tony haters that want to see him go if Mo doesn’t get him what he needs he won’t resign for next year.
The down side is that if this continues we can kiss Pujols goodbye.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't tease me like that
TLR will be back unless the Reds collapse and WJ fires Dusty. No way does anybody in ownership have the balls to let TLR walk and he won’t quit.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be great wouldn't it?
Tony in Cincy then Albert gets sprung and signs up with his old manager. That would be a nightmare scenario.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't understand it.
And don’t think I haven’t tried, but the 8 man bullpen is incomprehensible.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 7, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can understand it to a point.
The season is a marathon. It may not seem helpful now but when we get down to the last quarter of the season you don’t want your arms worn out.
I can live with the octo-pen. It works when you have a starting 3B and 3 adequate Outfielders.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is what memphis is for
decent relievers would help too
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 7, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't understand it over the last week.....
You never will.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 7, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need 8 men in the bullen
to get blown out?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 7, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Over the last week
Miller, Franklin & Perez have combined for 4 innings. And we continue to start arby clocks on AAA pitchers by calling them up for mop up duty when we have a mop-up pitcher (Thompson) on the roster and a AAA starter whose clock is already started and who’s been effective already this year (Boggs). It’s just inexplicable.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and we've DFAed a mop-up type pitcher who we traded a productive (in 08) right-handed OF for...
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not inexplicable, I think you pretty much just explained it.
Inexcusable, definitely!!!
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 7, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which of the guys we've called up.....
Are more than warm bodies? None of those guys project to do much in the majors.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 7, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd is supposed to be an ML quality reliever in a year or so if not sooner.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay.....
And he likely won’t be better than Motte or K-Mac, and probably not better than Perez.
And based on what I saw the other night, I wouldn’t be so sure. His stuff sure seemed questionable to me, but that was the first time I’ve seen him.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 7, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd probably had a case of nerves. I would have.
Didn’t he also stike out two batters? Not to bad for a guy who was drafted last year.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And KMac's been pretty poor this year
Perez likewise.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily there are these things called stats
to look at if you don;t know what you;re talking about.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 7, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
kind of like you said last year
about Motte.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd.
I don’t think Hawksworth will amount to anything, really, but Todd has the chance to be pretty good. I’m happy having Todd on the roster and think it was possibly fair enough to call him up. But then, why dump Boyer? Is one appearance from Todd really worth starting his clock, if the apparent idea ALL ALONG was to have hawksworth come up? Couldn’t we have just kept Boyer to pitch a couple of innings in a blowout?
It just all seems a bit seat-of-the-pants to me. Calling up Todd was fair enough, PERHAPS calling up Hawksworth after a long outing for Todd would be OK IF we didn’t have 8 sodding relievers anyhow (some of whom hardly ever pitch), but then if you add the DFA of Boyer to the mix it’s just dreadful. We’ve DFAed a guy we traded a vaguely useful player for, and started the arby clocks of two AAA guys, just to pitch a couple of low-leverage mop up innings in blowouts. Couldn’t miller or perez just have done that, given their low workload and the fact they’re not trusted to pitch very often when a game is on the line? I just don’t see how there’s any consistent thinking on this, I can’t find an explanation for it that doesn’t seem far-fetched unless its “they’ve mismanaged it badly”.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the boyer situation
is totally incomprehensible
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 7, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+Q
Why the hell do you throw away a reliever with decent stuff and some ML experience? He could have done what Hawksworth did very easily.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
the management of the roster is befuddling… As for the arb clock, if Todd isn’t on the active roster, he won’t be accumulating service days… unless he’s quickly recalled. In any case, being called up in June and now sent back down means he’s unlikely to be a super-2.
That said, I generally agree something fishy is going on. Maybe Boyer was caught with a needle in his a** or something.
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is making me dizzy
Great look at the pitching staff and the foibles of roster management. Thanks Chuckb. The Boyer – Todd debacle, the lack of any meaningful front office involvement and the insistence of carrying 13 pitchers through what is arguably the worst offensive meltdown since the mid seventies makes you wonder if the wheels are coming off here. To top it off, Mozliak, who usually says all the right things, is quoted commenting “we’re in a pretty good place.” What is he smoking?
It’s true that adding Beltre or Holliday won’t “fix” the Cardinals offense, if by that you mean turning them into the ‘27 Yankees. But it would take a fool to suggest that plugging in either of those guys into the hole behind Pujols won’t help. In terms of what we would give up prospect wise – that’s Mo’s job to marginalize. Most of the price should come from relieving Seattle or Oakland of their salaries. Of course, we’ll need to trade good people to get either of those guys, but that’s roster management too. Baseball rules dictate that we can’t keep everybody. As an incredible example, we kept Brian Barton on the 25 man roster all last year, balancing that roster in the middle of a pennet race to do so, only to give him away for nothing this April.
Mozliak needs to get going, or let the fans know why. This team is pissing away some very good pitching; you can not win scoring 2+ runs a game. It’s a long season alright, but loses in June count every bit as much as the ones in September.
by deweydell on Jun 7, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
being fair to Mo
coming out and saying “Yeah, we’re absolutely DESPERATE to sign a bat, any bat, PLEASE WE NEED A BAT” in the media is not the ideal way to approach dealing effectively with other GMs for offensive help.
Besides, we ARE in a pretty good place – 2 games ouot and 2nd in the division to a team whose pitching I still think is going to implode sooner or later.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"What in God’s name is going on?"
I don’t know, but it has angered the GOB.
I mean, when you’re sitting in the seats, eating your nachos, nursing your franklin, and the PA comes on for a full minute to explain the shift/double-switch/welcome to the rookie who’s about to be fed into a woodchipper, and you think to yourself, does he sound as confused as I feel? …. there might be something wrong with roster management.
How are we supposed to trust that the team’s going to go out and get the right tools guy if they can’t even manage their existing toolbox?
And the GOB have mercy on our souls if #5 is thinking the same damn thing.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 7, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is, btw not to say
That weird roster moves are wrong altogether. There is a whole generation of Cardinals fans who don’t know anything else, and we’ve done pretty well. But: ask ye the little children, they too are confused.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 7, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the roster management has been so idiotic over the past month+
that i think soonerfanTU would even have to question tony and MO…bad decision after bad decision
I do take some umbrage with what hardcore said at the beginning of the comments..i think this team is one hitter away from making the playoffs(the hitter may even be on the team if ludwick can round into form and rasmsu would play everyday), but still one hitter from making the playoffs…i think we showed in 2006 that if you make the playoffs, anything can happen when it comes to the world series
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 7, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I think we need a full time LF and 3B.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just keep hoping Mo finds that impact bat
Though to be honest I really don’t have any faith in him. I just think he’s made more blunders than good decisions so far since taking the reigns. Sticking out in my mind is loosing any value they might have gotten from Anthony Reyes(Perdomo) and now Barton being shipped for what exactly? Kahlil Greene; bad move. I feel like next he’s gonna trade too much for the likes of Garret Atkins.
by Walking Underwear on Jun 7, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The only holes to fit an impact bat,
are 3B and LF/RF if you intend on keeping Ludwick in either LF or RF. I guess we could get a slugging SS or 2B but those are few and most won’t come cheap. On top of that then we still have a hole at 3B and LF.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could pick up Beltre and Holliday.
As long as they don’t give up anything more than quantity for either player.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nail on the head there
Given past history, Mozliak is fully capable of overpaying for the like of Atkins or DeRosa. That’s why he needs to trade for an IMPACT BAT. Read Holliday or Belre. Someone who puts fear into the hearts of the Cubbies and keeps the Brewers shirts tucked in. Someone who puts a smile on Albert’s face.
Don’t say it can’t happen – I’ve seen it happen.
by deweydell on Jun 7, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed
but opposing GM’s now a days aren’t just giving players up…they want quality prospects and a good haul to please their fanbase…and deals with billy beane scare the bejeezus out of me…he is well versed in the art of the hoodwink
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 7, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like when he gave up Rich Harden for a load of garbage last year?
beane’s done well in the past but he’s made some so-so trades in recent years. I wouldn’t especially be worried about dealing with him solely based on Moneyball and Mulder.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both of those players are obtainable. I hope that is what Mo is working on right now.
I will assume he is working his but off trying to fill our holes. If nothing has changed in a month then I guess we are standing pat.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and beltre's not really an impact bat
he’s likely not a better hitter than our current 3B platoon, at least by much. He’s maybe a tiny upgrade w the bat and a big upgrade w the glove, though.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre doesn't have to be the big bat if you net Holliday. He just need to play D and contribute what he can.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre + Holliday is a pipe dream
and would probably cost a huge chunk of our farm system…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would it?
I mean as long as it is quantity then it would be okay. We have a glut of support type players. Time to make some room for the upcoming draft and get us some bats.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
News flash
Beltre and Holliday aren’t getting traded for “support type players.”
And guess what, the teams giving them up are well aware that they too could benefit from the players being type A/B.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 7, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, Holliday also nets us two first round draft picks.
Assuming he turns down arb and doesn’t get hurt.
So does derosa, probably. Both of them are “win now, win later, too” moves.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The beauty of our farm system is our depth. Trading for Beltre and Holliday would likely wipe out all of our close to ML ready players and set us back at least in a year in regards to our organizational development.
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The +1 was meant for Felonius Monks' original comment. Damn reply button stacking me behind others!
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who needs a reply button when a reply button is broken.
Also what are we going to do with all these fast track support type players in another year and not enough spots on the 40 man? Time to cull the heard a bit. It is healthy to do so.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does everyone here understand...
that we are likely not in command of all the facts?
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't that Bush's defense for 7 years?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 7, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a follow up joke in there somewhere if I could just place my finger on it...
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
These guys don't understand that.....
They think they know EVERYTHING they need to know, from the outside.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 7, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that is true.
I think what “these guys” and I are saying is that given the facts at hand, there is no logical explanation for the way the roster has been managed and the decisions that have been made.
We are not completely ignoring the possibility that there is some influence or other facts we are not privy to that has impacted these decisions; we are merely opining that the likelihood of such information existing and existing in such a way to warrant the moves made is zero or approaching zero.
Judging the situation by considering all the facts at hand and then attempting to quantify the likelihood of unknown material information is the only way to judge any scenario. Otherwise any decision made by anyone in authority with access to insider information (TLR, MO, Obama, my mother, etc.) could be written off by saying, “Well, he/she must have some reason for doing this!”, granting virtual infallibility. Knowing my mother (and TLR), infallibility is simply not the case.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 7, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Very well explained
rec’d.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
It’s like a black box. I mean, you can throw your hands up and say It’s a black box! It’s mysterious! But if you put cows in and get artichokes, there might be something amiss.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 7, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. I hope this makes sense a month from now.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd still like a proper 3B
but I also feel there might be value in a short-term, short-sighted but CHEAP move for an average-ish corner outfielder. Not to be an “impact bat” but just to give us one more option, someone who can hit LHP a little bit (something we still can’t do) and maybe be a small upgrade over dunc/ank in the OF. I’d be well up for enquiring about Austin Kearns (since Nats players seem to be en vogue at the moment). He’s only a so-so hitter, but he’s acceptable, he plays either corner spot extremely well on defence and he’s right handed (decent record vs LHP). He likely wouldn’t cost much (say, a mediocre pitching prospect) to get as a rental. I don’t see how a low-cost, low-ceiling move like this can’t be a benefit to the team when it’s obvious Duncan and Ankiel are absolutely hopeless at the moment.
Then, as I said, I’d make a “proper” move (i.e. deal something meaningful) to get a 3B of some ability. If we can give up Perez + mediocre prospect for DeRosa or Beltre, and maybe something like Ottavino + garbage prospect for Kearns I think that’d be a real short-term shot in the arm, and doesn’t really cost anything meaningful to the team. This division is just asking to be won this year, it’d be a shame if we procrastinated for a couple more months, waiting on good news from Glaus that may never come, waiting for Ank/Dunc’s bats to come around, and slipped out of it.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe that is what Mo is waiting on.
You see what the best bat you can get is available at either LF or 3B and then address the second of the two after that “big bat” falls in place.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would seem reasonable.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup
Skip
Rasmus
Pujols
Ankiel
Duncan
Molina
Thurston
Ryan
Pineiro
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 7, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a relief
I was afraid he might start Ludwick or something.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cause we know
Ludwick can’t hit RH fastball pitchers.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and, given he's been spanking the ball the last few days
it wouldn’t do to have him AND rasmus in the team….
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great!
Rasmus is back. But Ankiel in the 4 spot doesn’t excite me. Hopefully he grabs his hittin bat today.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
in his defence
i think ank’s approach and results have come around a little this past week. Because his glove is serviceable, i’ve mor confidence in getting something out of him than dunc at the moment. I don’t ever want to see either of them against left-handed pitching, though. Get a f’ing RHB in the OF Mo…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully he grabs Ludwick's bat (although I'd rather see Ludwick playing)
it seemed to help earlier in the season
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 7, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahem...
Joe Thurston, on call to return to California for the birth of his first child, still is here and in the lineup at third base. "I’m sure they’re kind of anxious about it," said La Russa, who expects Thurston to be leaving at almost any moment. Thurston’s anxiety may be showing in that he is one for his last 11.
Why put him in the game if he may leave at any moment?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who wrote that?
Specifically, who wrote “Thurston’s anxiety may be showing that he is one for his last 11.” Gotta be Gordo or Strauss. Yuck.
I know whom to call for a hole in my roof or a whole new roof.
by lightbulb on Jun 7, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and according to our HOF writer...
Going 5-for-18 makes you the ‘lone bright spot’.
Sorry Chuck, you’re overruled by Rick Hummel. Ankiel is fine. He took one walk.
I know whom to call for a hole in my roof or a whole new roof.
by lightbulb on Jun 7, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hummel has some skills...
He almost makes me believe Ank is gonna turn it around real soon. I hope he is right.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Hummel.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is the difference between.....
Starting him, and having to bring Barden in the game in the 5th, vs starting Barden, and Thurston leaving in the 5th?
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 7, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Thurston is waiting for a phone call to hop on a plane,
do you really think his head is in the game?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
de la rosa has good peripherals and very good stuff. his 2009 era apparently is experiencing the double-whammy of coors and Bad Luck.
by greenback06 on Jun 7, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His luck just got better. He is pitching against us.
Although I hope we finally break out of this slump today.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if tlr et al having been watching the same team play that i have
then we should be starting luddy, raz, and somebody else in the outfield everyday. i am also not so sure that that the other outfielder shouldn’t be schu with greene and rayn and thurston manning the infield. cd and rick-dick have not earned their playing time, it’s all wishful, back to the future thinking with them.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 7, 2009 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
but I don’t envy TLR’s position right now. Duncan, besides being his best friends’ son, seems to be one of those guys that sacrifices everything to his team (I would say playing with a bulging disk in his back earns him that respect). Ankiels’ also been through a lot with TLR and has worked his butt off to be in the position he is in now. While playing them might not be the best everyday lineup (especially both of them at the same time) it’s hard to tell either of these guys that they suck and they’re not going to play anymore. It’s going to take some more time (or a big trade) to transition away from them.
Disclaimer: I’m not saying it’s right, just acknowledging the humanistic aspect of TLR’s job.
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still have to fault TLR for deciding
to favor guys not performing over guys who have persevered just as much or more and work just as hard or harder. He is making over four million dollars a year to make the decisions – he needs to make the right ones more often.
I am waiting for the obligatory apology for Duncan’s poor performance over the last six weeks being due to some sort of physical problem.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree he has to take some heat for it, just saying it's not as easy as some make it out to be.
Francona’s dealing with the same kind of situation in Boston (bigger player, bigger dropoff). The excitement over Ortiz’s homerun last night reminded me of “Little Big League” when Billy got excited about the seeing-eye single!
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like most of us are on the same page,
that we need to trade for a middle of the order hitter. But I’ve been getting confused over the past week by people who agree with this and don’t want Holliday. He’s the best guy out there who’s available, he plays a position we need production out of, and we shouldn’t have to give either of our top 2 prospects for him (still including Rasmus). I read a comment earlier that said we shouldn’t give up “anything more than quantity” in order to get Beltre and Holliday. This isn’t the way it works. To get Holliday is going to take D. Jones or Motte (hopefully not both!) plus a starting prospect and another player. Is it worth it? If Carp and Pujols stay healthy the rest of the year, I would say yes.
Here’s the way I’m looking at it right now: our two star players are playing great and we have some holes around them. We have a deep farm system with a lot of guys who are similiar to each other. We have to capitalize on Carp and Pujols’ production while it lasts and make a move that can use our farm system to win now without crippling it for the future, which we can easily do. Why are some people against this?
If we don’t make moves and Pujols walks, I’m afraid of us turning into the Twins: a team that’s always competive because of their good young players, but never makes any noise in the playoffs because they’re always one player short. That’s not good enough for me, and it’s not good enough for the Cardinals organization.
As far as the Jesse Todd situation goes, I’m going to try to assume that he got sent down after one day because he threw way more pitches than he should’ve thrown and wouldn’t have been available for 2-3 days. I think the 40 man roster situation is moot in his case because we would have had to add him at the end of year anyways in order to protect him the Rule V draft.
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree, but
djones, motte etc as part of a package for 3-4 months of holiday is not worth it unless they eat salary. same way with kgreene, mo paid too much in players to also take on all the salary.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 7, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
If Holliday gets us into the playoffs, one home game should pay the amount of Hollidays’ contract (this is what Dewitt should be considering). And if this move makes Pujols believe in the front office enough to sign a team-friendly deal (which will still be 20+ mil/year) how much is worth to ownership then?
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention we get two draft picks unless the some pulls a Yankee move
and signs him after signing to other tpye a free agents. That would suck.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
Holliday is on pace for a ~6 WAR season. Duncan and Ankiel are both looking like average players, at best (<2 WAR), so Holliday would be about a 3 WAR boost over the rest of the season. He’ll cost about $8M for the rest of the season, and when he leaves, he’ll be worth 2 draft picks. And he’ll sell tickets and jerseys at the ballpark. He’s expensive, but you get what you pay for in this case, I think.
Unless they are extremely confident in Joe Mather coming back, or unless Beane is asking for the world, Holliday has to be the target.
DeRosa should also be a target, but only if he’s cheap.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday also might be suceptible to the "home team discount" and want to stay a Cardinal.
That wouldn’t be horrible.
With him Rasmus and Ludwick under control for the next few years you could afford to lose a Daryl Jones.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 7, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have any scott boras
client’s done that?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they hire Boras for a reason
I can’t think that getting less money is that reason
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 7, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure I can agree
with the assumptoin that Holliday would get PT in place of Ankiel and Duncan. They neither one have any real trade value, so unless they get hurt they will be on the team. If they are on the team they will play. Ludwick and Rasmus would feel the squeeze at least as much as Ankiel and Duncan.
I don’t really want to give up much for a partial season of Holliday because:
1. that will shoot the team’s payroll wad and be the only move of significance that would happen
2. next year we will have the same problem, but will be missing whatever we gave up for the rental.
3. the best case compensation scenario is a late first round pick and a sandwich pick, but the comp could easily turn into a sandwich pick and a second round pick or worse. Any help would be years away if ever.
I still think it makes more sense to obtain someone who will be around for a few years unless the price is VERY cheap for Holliday. I also think a quality starter would be equally valuable to the team’s chances.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the only move we make
is a net +3 WAR move, I’ll take it. Not many pitchers would give a boost like that. Peavy might be 3, probably more like 2, but he’d be even more expensive in terms of both money and prospects.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only a plus three move
if TLR’s faves get less playing time as a result. I don’t see anything in his history to indicate he would diminish Ank and Dunc’s PT. Rasmus is a 1.8 WAR player so far this year and Ludwick will probably be about a 3-4 WAR player if he ever gets to play regularly.
And then there is still next year to consider.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adding more average players to our average lineup makes no sense.
1.Derosa and other comparable players will not cause us to make the playoffs.
2. A impact player who will be under the Cards’ control for 2+ years will cost us much more than Holliday will (probably Rasmus)
3. TLR is not playing Ankiel/ Duncan over Ludwick/Rasmus a whole lot. He’s rotating them basically the same way he has handled his outfielders for years to keep them fresh. Rasmus might suffer a little bit, but Ludwick won’t in the stretch run (refer to last year). If Rasmus starts consistently hitting, he should be in the same position.
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recall saying
anything about DeRosa – I don’t support that deal either. Below average defender who is getting older.
Of course an impact player who will be under control for 2+ years will cost more and it should as it will return more. I don’t see any basis for saying it couldn’t be done without including Rasmus.
Given that Rasmus and Ludwick are both clearly outperforming either Duncan or Ankiel, I think most objective people would disagree that Ank/Dunc should get the PT they are getting. Plus, I don’t ever recall TLR rotating any player who is the reigning Silver Slugger. He talks a lot about performance earning PT, but it just isn’t true.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it doesnt' include Rasmus, it has to start with Wallace AND Motte.
There’s not a lot of guys who are made available to begin with who are impact players with multiple years left under control. In those rare situations, the deal has to be one that is too good to pass up. If that deal doesn’t include Rasmus, the team we’re dealing with will have to be convinced that Wallace is going to be an All-Star hitter AND Motte is going to be a good closer. We would also have to include a couple of other guys to get it done. That would strip us of a lot of flexibility in our system as well as cost us 2 of our top 3 prospects, which might be worth it depending on who it is we trade for (I don’t know of anybody that is available that matches our needs, as well as being impact player/ 2+ more years of team control).
As far as Ludwick being rotated, he has played more than anybody else when he has been healthy. We all must remember he has been injury-prone in the past and he was very successful last year in the same kind of situation. If he gets a day off every 4 or 5 days, I don’t really have a problem with that as long as he plays more towards the end of the season.
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why?
the braves didn’t pay that much for 3 years of Mclouth. Why would we pay that much for 3 months of Holliday?
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not for Holliday.
Talking about what it would take to secure an impact player who has multiple years of control left or multiple years on their contract left.
by thp0344 on Jun 7, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find the whole
discussion of who it will take to get whom to be pretty fruitless. We can all cite examples of players who were gotten for various levels of value. The important thing is to be a Cardinal fan for the duration not just to be an impulse buyer for this year.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 7, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arb clock & room on the 40 man roster
Todd’s callup has the same impact on his Arb clock and the 40 man roster as a September call up. Even if Todd stayed all year on the 25 man roster, it is doubtful he would be a super two at this date in the season. I can agree with you on the starting his arb clock early issue if you are arguing that Todd should not have seen the majors this year, including a September call up or an injury fill-in.
by ubeddie on Jun 8, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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