Pujols to 3rd
I believe that the Cardinals should move Albert Pujols to 3rd base. There, I said it. I figured it would be the easiest way to say it...to just come out and start with it. I believe that the Cardinals should move Albert to 3rd base because it would enable us to improve the third base position's production by adding a first baseman instead. It would also give the team a lot of flexibility defensively.
- I would assume that Pujols, within 2-3 years, would become a very good defender at third base. All the man does is impress in everything he puts his mind to doing.
- Defensively, Chris Duncan is a decent option at first base. In the outfield, where he currently roams, he is a bad to mediocre option at best.
- Defensively, Skip Schumaker is a good to great option in left field. At second base, where he currently roams, he is a bad option.
- Defensively, the Walrus, Brett Wallace, projects as a first baseman or a DH, not as he is currently being used at 3rd. Moving Pujols would allow Wallace to be brought up at some point and not have to worry nearly as much about playing defense. He could just, then, learn to rake the MLB pitchers.
Then, the Cardinals could go a myriad directions with trades.
- Adam Dunn has been mentioned elsewhere on the site as a trade option. He is in the same boat as Duncan defensively. Dunn brings a bigger name and a bigger bat than Duncan can give us, at least at the moment. I'd prefer to play him at first than clog up an already crowded outfield.
- Mark DeRosa has been rumored to be coming to St. Louis, most recently here. He would be a pretty good defender at 2nd base, which would be open by moving Skip back to the outfield. I think his bat projects much better as a second baseman than a 3rd baseman.
- Apparently Adrian Gonzalez could be on the block in SD, along with Jake Peavy. Adrian Gonzalez would pretty much keep the 1b defense the same as it is now...and add much more pop than we've seen at third since 2006 with Rolen reasonably healthy.
- Matt Holliday has been rumored to (and I paraphrase) "not caring about staying in Oakland." Holliday would represent a big bat in the lineup and the biggest name that could probably be gotten to appease Tony. Holliday is a plus defender. I am assuming that if Holliday is brought in, that one of our current outfielders, not named Ludwick or Rasmus, will be dealt as part of a package deal. I would be fine if both Duncan and Ankiel were sent off for Holliday, leaving us with a Ludwick, Rasmus, Holliday, Skip platoon out there.
I know that there are minuses to moving Pujols. The biggest, first and foremost problem is that nobody but Albert really knows what is up with his right arm. He seems to be healthy right now. I think that now is the time to do it, if there ever is a time. I believe that to keep Albert past 2011 the club will have to be competitive. Albert has expressed the desire to move to 3rd if it helps to keep the team competitive.
Thanks for reading, stlfan.
PS - I do not mind if this becomes the dumping ground of all trade discussion so that we can keep it all in one place...
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71 comments
Comments
wtf
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 10:25 PM EDT reply actions 13 recs
rec'd
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 4, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's all that was needed to be said
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jun 5, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dumb idea
this fanpost should be removed before you are crucified
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
by Cuttah on Jun 4, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I mean seriously,
you do realize his elbow is hanging on by a thread right? How do you plan on him making that throw from 3rd to 1st all game?
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
by Cuttah on Jun 4, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely
His elbow wouldn’t make it out of ST and then he’s lost for a full year.
by thepainguy on Jun 7, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nonononononononono
putting pujols at third would be a HUGE injurt risk.
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 4, 2009 10:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and that of course should say injury
and i do like the plan, but it’s NOT worth the risk.
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 4, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the elbow is the ONLY reason.....
Than he needs to just have the surgery. He should have cut short his season last year and gotten it done. He is going to need it one day anyways, and if after the surgery he is “100%”, why not a move to 3B?
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 4, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ummm....
why not a move to 3B?
because he is the best defensive first baseman in all of the land
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 4, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he'd likely be a damn good 3B
Right? No reason to think otherwise.
I’m not saying I’d do it, I’m just saying I wouldn’t NOT do it b/c he is Albert Pujols. I’m sure he’d like the challenge anyways.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 4, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
He’d most likely be average at third. He’s about +15 runs defensively at first, and the difference in positional adjustments is right about 15 runs. So average.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could make the adjustment.....
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 4, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlikely
Those adjustments are based on history. Guys who switch from 1st to third get a lot worse.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't he a really good 3rd baseman when he came up?
i’m not saying he should play there now, i’m just saying i remember him playing there early in his career & he was really good.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 4, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
He actually played some SS in the minors, I THINK.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 5, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
He’s a man approaching thirty who has bulked up a lot since his days playing third. His arm is attached by a band-aid and duct tape. Why do you think he could make the adjustment? Just saying “he could do it!” isn’t nearly enough. First base is the easiest position on the field, and as great as Albert is at it, it’s a whole different ball of wax going across the diamond.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 7, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't
he have tommy john over the off season?
by prophetjohn on Jun 4, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked this idea a lot better befire i clicked on it
Pujols should only go to third if he is running the bases
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 4, 2009 10:42 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
We've got ourselves a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 4, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean go to third briefly while ignoring the sign and going home.
+1
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 5, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And....
NO, NO, YES, NO
cuz it just can’t be said enough
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 4, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two reasons APu is not at LF or 3b and is instead on 1B
1. He’s a great defender at first
2. First basemen are less prone to get injured
NO, even if it means having anemic guys at 3B all year…
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
by Paulspike on Jun 4, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OFF TOPIC
is this game over or what? PPD? i’m waiting for the mlb.tv archive to pop up and…..nothing. not even a link like the game is still going on
by prophetjohn on Jun 4, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and if it's not obvious
i’d prefer to not know the outcome of the game yet
by prophetjohn on Jun 4, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the Birds game?
It’s over. And I just happened to see your follow-up post when I hit preview, so I deleted all the game details. But needless to say it was a fast game.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 4, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thx
i’ll just wait for the archive, then
by prophetjohn on Jun 4, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, that 55-run 9th inning sucked ass.
DFA Franklin!!! And Motte, and Perez, and McClellan, and most of all LaRue!!!
Also, I would never have guessed Ankiel would throw another wild pitch, but tonight just goes to show what I know!
Enjoy the game, prophetjohn.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 4, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I really don't think this should or would happen, but I'm curious -
What do we know about his arm (I don’t mean health, I mean strength and accuracy)? That’s obviously far more important at 3rd than 1st, and I have to confess I don’t have the slightest idea what his arm was supposed to be like in LF, not counting when it was injured and Renteria would come out to take soft tosses from him.
Is he supposed to have a gun? And is it an accurate gun?
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 4, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
YES
and while we are at it, we can move ankiel back to the mound
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 5, 2009 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and skip to the outfield and duncan to first and and and motte back to catcher
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Jun 5, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you know that Dave Duncan is Chris Duncan's father?
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 5, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really I always wondered why they showed dave after chris made a big boo boo in the field
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Jun 5, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally
We’ve found one thing every member of VEB can agree on (that this is a bad idea).
Or did Sooner say it would be a good idea (after surgery, I believe).
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 5, 2009 1:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's not go down that road again...
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 5, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha +1
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jun 5, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see it happen
if he could still play the position, and do it without increasing chance of injury.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 5, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not a video game league,
if pujols blows that elbow out it is far, far worse for us than Joe Thurston at third.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 5, 2009 1:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Love the idea
it really would open up a myriad of options… but unfortunately, the elbow is too big a risk.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 5, 2009 3:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a great idea
WIth one condition: we flip the baserunning around so that now runners run 3rd to 2nd to 1st to home.
Imagine all the left-handed middle infielders we’d need all of a sudden…
by mojowo11 on Jun 5, 2009 3:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And the "Ludwick to 2B" project begins in earnest...
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2009 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least Albert used to play 3rd though
it’s not as crazy as people are reacting.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 5, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think he could play third just fine
the main issue is that we don’t have an internal 1B replacement (unless we want to go out and get, I dunno, Dunn or something) and the main reason he’s not played third in recent years (other than having rolen/glaus) is his elbow. That’s not something ANYONE wants to f with, and rightly so.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love this idea
I think it is better for Pujols.
I think the throws he makes from first on various plays are just as risky as the throws from Third. At third, at least you square up for the most part and use the body. Of course, he won’t be able to make the charging bunt play or the long throw from behind the bag, but who cares. Honestly, if his arm was that bad, he’d be out by now.
Every night on the thread I read about people complaining about (insert name here) pulling Albert off the bag on bad throws. We’ve seen the Rolen/Choi debacle —that could easily happen with the reverse result.
Moving him to third opens up the possibilities for real lineup protection. I’d give up the store for Gonzalez and Peavy in that scenario. Hell,with that trade just tell albert to shovel pass all groundballs to ryan and have him make the throw. I’ll take my chances.
Just win
by The Duke on Jun 5, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't think we've enough on the farm to get Peavy AND Gonzo
Gonzo especially would require pretty much every meaningful prospect we have. And there’s the cash issue with peavy.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In an ideal
world, this would work.
In this world, I’d have to take tranquilizers to watch Albert play 3B with his arm injury.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 5, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I'd be okay with it IF
Albert’s arm wasn’t in bad shape.
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 5, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about everyone else
But I’m a nervous wreck everytime I watch Carp swing the bat now. I know I couldn’t handle watching Albert make those deep throws from foul territory over to first base. My heart wouldn’t last a week.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on Jun 5, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DUMB DUMB DUMB…who are you going to get to replace a gold glove first baseman, secondly what about Pujols elbow, the stress from those throws would surely tear it then we dont have a 3B or a proven 1B. not sensible at all.
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on Jun 5, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ALMOST as crazy as...
…Schumaker to 2nd.
I know whom to call for a hole in my roof or a whole new roof.
by lightbulb on Jun 5, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Because Schumaker was worth 8 wins in the OF and is an injury risk at 2nd...
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 5, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty shocked by these responses, personally
Didn’t Pujols have corrective surgery after last season? Hasn’t he said all along that he can play through it? Hasn’t he said all year that he is healthy? IF we can accept what Albert himself says as true, then there should not be that problem.
What are the responses if we accept “Pujols is healhty” as fact?
by stlfan on Jun 6, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mark Mulder said he was healthy,
Carl Pavano said he was healthy, JJ Putz said he was healthy, Shawn Merriman tried to play with TWO torn ligaments in his knee.
Athletes want to play, at any cost, and they often downplay or hide injuries.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 6, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols is , if nothing else, one tough SOB
the surgery was to relieve a nerve irritation, it did not repair the ligament. Sure, APu could probably play third, and play through the pain, but why take the chance of him tearing that ligament for good?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 6, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he had minor surgery
it was only to move a couple of nerves that were giving him a lot of pain… he still needs the big surgery
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 7, 2009 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And therein lies the rub...
See, I was under the impression that he had corrective surgery for the whole shebang.
by stlfan on Jun 7, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That surgery
is Tommy John and Pujols would miss a season.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 7, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, he'd miss 6 months.
IE if he got it done at the beginning of November, he’d miss a month.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jul 4, 2009 4:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
All the surgery did is help him manage the problem and reduce its impact in the short term.
It didn’t fix the problem.
by thepainguy on Jun 7, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my feeling on this
if it works, great, we can probably make a trade at 1B (or even move dunc there and get a proper LF) and add one or two marginal wins. If it goes wrong, we lose an 8+ win player, the best player in the game, and our only chance of making the post-season for the next three years, to a potentially serious injury. I think it’s kinda high-risk, low-reward. If we had a first baseman who was utterly mashing in the minors like Ryan Howard was the year before the phillies called him up, it might be worth a try I guess, but we don’t. We’re likely moving dunc in there (with his current bat, he’d still be a poor player regardless where we hide his glove) or trading for someone nowhere near as good as albert. PASS.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 7, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO!
Don’t get me wrong, the Thurston/Barden crew isn’t ideal.
But Pujols getting hurt making a throw to first?

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 7, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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