Thursday miscellany
by chuckb on Jun 4, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
in News
786 comments
We may see the return of Mitch Boggs but, in looking at his AAA numbers, it’s not at all clear that he’ll be called up. It may be Danup’s favorite Blake Hawksworth or even Clayton Mortensen , both of whom are outpitching Boggs at Memphis. Hawksworth, in particular, has done a much better job of throwing strikes than Boggs and could get the call. Or they could decide to call up a hitter (they wouldn’t really get rid of the 8 man pen, would they?) and go w/ Thompson as the fill-in while Lohse heals. I don’t really see the point of keeping Thompson on the roster but, as long as he’s there, I suppose I’d rather have him take 3-4 starts while Lohse sits and have the extra hitter on the bench than leave him to rot for another 17 days in the pen while we watch Todd Wellemeyer pinch hit.
There’s been a lot of talk on the state of the third base position, and rightly so, but we mustn’t forget the "contributions" that the Cards’ outfielders have made to the current slump. Here are some of the peripheral numbers for the Cards’ outfielders during the month of May.
| BB% | K% | BA | OBP | SLG | wOBA | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Skip | 3.0 | 10.4 | .313 | .333 | .479 | .348 |
| Ludwick | 14.0 | 20.9 | .186 | .321 | .395 | .325 |
| Rasmus | 3.4 | 21.2 | .212 | .256 | .447 | .302 |
| Stavinoha | 2.3 | 9.3 | .256 | .267 | .419 | .298 |
| Duncan | 8.3 | 22.7 | .227 | .289 | .386 | .296 |
| Robinson | 0.0 | 8.0 | .240 | .231 | .280 | .230 |
| Ankiel | 5.0 | 36.8 | .105 | .190 | .158 | .172 |
Quite clearly, Ankiel’s numbers are putrid. His OPS is lower than 5 of the 7’s slugging %. Horrendous doesn’t begin to describe it. Ludwick’s numbers look worse than they should, primarily b/c he was hurt by a ridiculous .161 BABIP. In fact, it’s reasonable to argue that Ludwick had the best month of the 7 despite his .186 batting average. Aside from those particular numbers, what stands out? To me, it’s clearly the (what’s the most awful word for awful?) atrocious (?) walk rates of everyone except Ludwick. Even Rasmus, whose walk rate was a solid 13.2% in April, saw his sink by nearly 10%. At least he managed to have the highest slugging percentage of the group, thus making his month appear to be relatively strong – at least compared to Duncan and Ankiel.
So what was different in Rasmus’ approach in April and May? The big difference, which should come as no surprise to anyone, is that Rasmus swung at many more pitches outside the strike zone in May than in April. In April, he swung at just 16.2% of the pitches he saw outside the zone. In May, that percentage increased by nearly 10% to 25.7%. He swung at more pitches overall, and swung and missed more frequently in May. Clearly, when he made contact, he made much better contact in May than April, but he needs to regain his patience at the plate. The skeptics among us (Al, I’m looking at you) would say that Rasmus is doing too much swinging for the fences. I actually caught him channeling Cecil Cooper ("home runs are rally killers!") the other day when I heard him complain that Rasmus was hitting too many home runs. Hey Al, if he doesn’t hit ‘em, who will?
It hasn’t been Duncan. It hasn’t been Ankiel and Ludwick spent half the month on the DL. Now, I expect Ludwick to improve and I expect Rasmus to improve. Will Duncan regain his power stroke this year? I’m not so sure. Ankiel surely can’t get any worse. Hopefully he can get straightened out (for his sake as much as the team’s) and become at least a quasi-productive player for the team. The other thing to remember is that, while Rasmus is a plus defensive player, neither Duncan nor Ankiel help the team much defensively. If they’re not hitting, they’re not really productive at all. The point is that we can’t forget the outfield’s offensive ineptitude when discussing the team’s fecklessness at the plate. It’s not just about the hot corner.
Please tell me that I imagined Brendan Ryan getting thrown out trying to steal third down 3 runs in the bottom of the 7th. That was a hallucination, right? A bad dream? That didn’t really happen, did it?
There’s a good post from Eric Seidman over at fangraphs on Jim Edmonds’ case for the HOF. It’s definitely worth a read. I realize some Cards’ fans are pissed that he went and played for the Cubs when he could’ve chosen retirement and some are pissed about that stupid feud that Tony started last year, but Jimmy was a great ballplayer for the bulk of the 8 seasons he spent w/ the birds on the bat. Is he worthy of the Hall? I’m not sure. My heart says "yes" but my head says he’s probably just not quite good enough.
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I have come to similar conclusions yesterday that I put up in my fanpost
Most notably about Ankiel. He has no value for this team currently. He is not even close to replacement level as a corner outfielder. Like you said with Colby at least he has defense to fall back onto. A big problem of Colby’s is that he is hitting lefties poorly. Hopefully if his minor league numbers are any indication it is just a fluke. (.275/.371/.455/.826 in Minor’s vs Lefties)
I am getting close to my breaking point of no return with Ankiel. He is currently not adding anything to the team but actually taking away wins.
Maybe we should just pray for Mather’s health to return
Number since he has come off the DL
19 AB’s 8 H’s 2 2B’s 1 HR 5 RBI’s 1 BB 4 SO
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Colby's had a horrible BABIP vs lefties
in his tiny sample. I don’t think his approach is that bad against them (he doesn’t seem to have the serious endemic problems vs LHP that, say, Dunc or Ankiel have – in Dunc’s case, he can’t lay off any slider/breaking ball down and away from a southpaw).
Ankiel’s been a streaky hitter his whole career. He’s also been hurt, badly, this year, and probably came back onto the roster too soon. I’m going to give him another month before I start throwing him under a bus. He’s still been above replacement level this year (by a whole 0.1 runs, woohoo!) according to fangraphs, and I think his glove is a +ve in a corner spot. Most of his peripherals are up around his career numbers, he’s just not hitting with any power. I’m going to believe that that’s a correctable flaw. Of course, it could just be that pitchers have a more refined approach to him this year following the observation that he’s mostly guessing up there (and has been all of his career) and can’t lay off high fastballs or good breaking stuff.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel had a couple...
of hard hit balls last night. He smoked a one-hopper at Phillips, and then hit that double in the 9th. Maybe I’m reaching, but I found some reassurance in those two at-bats.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But doesn't he typically...
have a nice at-bat when we’re down by 8 runs and the at-bat is low-leverage?
Can he actually have a good at-bat in a 2-2 game with the game on the line?
by VinegarBend on Jun 4, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not real big on the...
“clutch” factor. Though Ankiel has a history that suggest he doesn’t handle pressure well. The shot to Phillips was while the game was still close, and it was definitely blistered.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that one-hopper to Phillips was a missile
I think I saw a small super nova when his glove absorbed the blow and knocked his body back.
That out, Pujol’s line drive that was caught by the warning track, and Ludwick’s missile that almost got Albert doubled off, were some of the hardest hit outs I’ve ever seen. They weren’t even your garden variety line drives to 3rd, just heat seaking missiles.
There seemed to be other well struck balls throughout the night that just weren’t falling as well. I don’t know if those falling for hits would have won the game, but it might have at least made it a game.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick
It seems he has tattooed quite a few balls since coming off the DL…right at fielders. He drilled a couple opposite field shots earlier in the series vs. Cincy. This, of course, made me openly mutter “What?!” when Al started criticizing Ludwick for not taking a rehab stint to get his timing down. Ludwick has tattooed the ball right at defenders on numerous occasions since coming back.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 4, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al wouldn't understand the concept of BABIP
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would take the time to learn
if someone told him it was another possible way to rip on Rasmus
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He complitmented Ryan's play
and it sounded like he really had to force it. I bet he was jumping for joy when Ryan got thrown out at 3B.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to probably say no to Jimmy Baseball in the HOF
my all-time favourite Cardinal. I just can’t help but feel that he wasn’t a real monster for quite long enough.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
On the subject of Jimmy Baseball and the HOF,
chuckb summed up my feelings as well – my heart says “yes”, but my head isn’t quite so sure.
by cardsgirl95 on Jun 4, 2009 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to have seen him hit 20-25...
more homeruns in RF for somebody this year to get his total up over 400. If he could have somehow managed 120 hits he’d have crossed the 2,000 mark there. I know that both of those fall short of the “magic” numbers, but coupled with his reign as the best centerfielder in baseball for a handful of years they could very well be enough. It would take the arguement from “he didn’t even get ____ hits/HR’s” to “he had ____ hits/HR’s while playing excellent defense at a premium position.”
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to have seen him
continue to play CF and hit those 20 bombs this year — then all of his homers would have come as a centerfielder, and he would have been more than good enough defensively to handle the assignment. With some of the starting CF’s in the National League this year, I can’t believer that nobody has given him a shot to play.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right...
I just thought I might have a tough enough time making my case for 20+HR’s and 120+hits that I didn’t want to argue over whether he can still play center. You take that one, and I’ll handle the offensive side.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know Tony/Edmonds have burnt some bridges
but at the moment, heck, I can’t believe WE couldn’t find a role for him, despite his lefty-ness, at least off the bench…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also seems odd the Cubs spent all that money on Bradley
I can’t see him being that much better than Edmonds would’ve been, this year.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
considering how well Jimmy is thought of in the clubhouse, he’s been way worse, and for more money than what Jimmy would have cost them. Plus, had they not wanted Bradley, they’d still have Derosa and might have even held on to Jason Marquis, who apparently needs contract year motivation to turn into Mr. Hyde.
Jim Hendry, your 2008 GM of the Year!!!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley has started heating up a little
and I’m sure his bat will come around. Still, picking up ANOTHER asshole to add to Zambrano, Soriano et al makes it that much easier to root against them…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about Bradley, but
they DFA’ed the gatordate machine
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i don't think the cubs need to worry though.
i’m sure he’ll be healthy for the next 30 months.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering how well Jimmy is thought of in the clubhouse, he’s been way worse
They’re not the same player offensively/defensively/positionally, but assuming they are – if you’re the GM how much would the difference between your perception of Jed and Bradley’s respective clubhouse presences be worth to you per year?
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
14 Grits...
and maybe a pair of JeterEyes. Only 2 real dollars though.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
at least the couple of million more that Bradley is making this year.
With respect to Jim Leyland, I think that clubhouse cancers DO effect how ballclubs deal with losing streaks and struggles on the field, especially when you have too many knuckleheads in your clubhouse.
I can think of a more than few teams that have had more talent than the Cardinals the last couple of years and haven’t won as much. True, they haven’t had Pujols, but I think you have to credit Pujols, Yadi, and WW for keeping things focused on the positive in the locker room and not dwelling on negative things, undressing umpires, and assaulting Gatorade machines. You would never see Albert or Yadi destroy a Gatorade machine or go after an umpire so hard they blow out a knee. They are focused on the business at hand each and every day and put their best effort out on the field every night. Other players respect that and in turn follow their lead. I think that LaRussa should get credit for some of this, but that he gets credit for way too much of it in the grand scheme of things.
The Cubs have a couple of good clubhouse guys on the team. Ryan Dempster has always been lauded as one, and so has Derrek Lee. But you can’t overcome 2 or 3 knuckleheads like Big Z, Bradley, and Soriano, especially when your manager has been known to throw temper tantrums as well, even though he’s by all accounts a great baseball man.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Yadi taking his catching gear off and leaving it an ump’s feet last year after getting tossed was priceless.
by paposse on Jun 4, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true, but all that was for a purpose
He was backing up his pitcher, who was getting miserably squeezed in that game, and Yadi said later that that umpire in particular really squeezed the zone against the Cardinals.
If Zambrano could sit down and give me a reasonable explanation for destroying that Gatorade machine, I’d be glad to apologize, I just don’t think that he can.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not disagreeing
I don’t think there is much room for that kind of attitude in the game.
Sometimes I almost wish someone would show a little fire. When Nick Stavinoha is our biggest non-Albert threat in the lineup someone needs to fire these guys up.
Also, just because it’s fun to watch, here’s the link.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=2689415
Did he get suspended for that? I can’t even remember now.
by paposse on Jun 4, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was curious, so I looked it up - he was fined but not suspended
Link
That was pretty entertaining to watch.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 4, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh this one is way more entertaining and funny
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
that’s awesome. I really love dempster now, even with that stupid glove flick…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was awesome,
I had forgotten all about that. I especially liked how Yadi untucked his shirt as he walked back to the dugout. Not only f*** you to the umpire, but to the Brewers as well.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
fourstick:
I think you have to credit Pujols, Yadi, and WW for keeping things focused on the positive
I note that the biggest blowups out of the Cards are always about whether the game is being played right. Start disrespecting the game, and… you won’t like ‘em when they’re angry.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 4, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a kinda digression
I do feel, despite being much more in the stathead camp than a baseball traditionalist, that we’ve perhaps gone too far the other way in terms of UNDER-valuing things like team chemistry, and the effect of trouble-makers or unhappy players, on the performance of baseball teams. Just from an entirely subjective point of view, it has to have some effect.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with that
Just think of your own work environment. If it is overly negative work place work quality will go down. If you don’t dread going to work and enjoy your co workers than you will most likely perform better.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t doubt that there’s a performance difference between chewing gum and chewing tobacco, but if something is significant I think it should be possible to measure. Take clubhouse presence, for example: if a bad apple goes from one team to another, his original team “should” improve while the new one suffers.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful, now.
Does the name Milton Bradley mean anything to you?
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
how is Texas doing this year? how about the Cubs?
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your assessment...
But its really hard to measure. The old team would have to replace the player with a comparable talent. How often does that happen considering the cases we usually talk about are big names? Too many lurking variables to make a judgment, IMO.
I tend to think chemistry is overrated (think of articles post WS claiming teams “came together”), but its effects probably aren’t negligible. I just don’t know how to measure it.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But its really hard to measure. The old team would have to replace the player with a comparable talent.
Why? You can look at individual or team performance for everyone but them, or the person they’re replacing; if the hypothesis is that they’re affecting others’ performance, looking at just the “others” will result in less dilution. Barry Bonds and his happy-go-lucky identically-performing twin are a constant, and could be safely eliminated from the equation as an individual component.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because...
The person you replace the “cancer” with could have an impact as well, not to mention the effects of aging, injury, sample size and whatever else the team has once the “cancer” is gone (or added). You are right though the old team would have to replace the player with a comparable talent. isn’t exactly right – but I just think there are too many things that change from year to year team to team to be able to correctly attribute causality.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on all the variables, but I think it’s not unfair to assume that if a bad-attitude player is alleged to have a big negative influence and they’re replaced with a good-attitude player, a difference should be seen. Once someone even gets that far we can sweat the details.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I don't think that's ever going to be possible
too many variables, and the sample sizes involved would likely be pretty small as well. It’s just not possible to do any sort of vaguely scientific comparison on such a nebulous factor.
If you just look at “how good player X is when player Y is/isn’t in his team” you could be looking at random fluctuations (i.e. sample size issues), an injury, a change in approach, the fact his dog’s just died, basically dozens of factors. The whole coincidence/causality thing again – it’d be absolutely impossible to link the two things together.
Same thing applies on a team-wide level; teams go on winning or losing streaks all the time, even with the same set of personnel. How on earth can we link one event (behaviour of a player/morale behind the scenes) with their performance, with any sort of accuracy? Absolutely no way.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats and Sabermetrics have a place in the game
but to say that only measurable factors affect the game is just as naive as somebody saying that all of your favorite numbers mean about as much as a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds like a very meaningful painting to me.
Just like this one.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh my god.
How did you find that?
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My little sister told me about that artist.
He is awesome. I always forget his name though. I love the combination of excellent classical realism skills and ridiculous tongue-in-cheek popart.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
the description is amazing and dispels any fear about the artist’s level of seriousness. Rockefeller, Hearst, and Morgan? And he doesn’t even mention the T-Rex just standing there!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like something
from Brock Sampson’s dreams.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but to say that only measurable factors affect the game
I didn’t say that.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t doubt that there’s a performance difference between chewing gum and chewing tobacco, but if something is significant I think it should be possible to measure. Take clubhouse presence, for example: if a bad apple goes from one team to another, his original team "should" improve while the new one suffers.
I count 1 “that”
you didn’t say it directly, but what other conclusion am I supposed to come to after reading your opinion?
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I conceded – as you quote – that a player chewing gum compared to tobacco could have an impact on baseball performance. What more can I say?
You’re throwing “significant” out of the sentence, and that’s a huge adjective. Could shoes make a difference? Yes. High-carb lunches? Yep. But if I ever tell you something is a BIG DEAL and I can’t show you, then I don’t expect you to believe me.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God is a big deal and you can't show him to me.
Whether you believe in him or not, religion has accounted for more wars as well as more selfless acts than any single factor in history.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure if I hate or love this argument.
So that makes it a good post.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Selfless acts” are gonna be a hard lookup, but war isn’t – just start cracking the history books. Whether or not God exists, if religion is the cited cause then there you go: proof.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOPE.
You proved religion exists, but not God.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So? The point wasn’t proving God, it was correlating cause and effect: religion = wars. Same thing as correlating cause and effect with, say, clubhouse presence except there’s nothing of substance on the right side of the equals sign.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK.
If you work with a guy that you really don’t care about one way or the other, how likely are you to help him out if he needs it? I think that can be one of the biggest benefits of clubhouse harmony. Didn’t Carp identify AW’s arm-slot problem and help him run off a subsequent string of shut-down starts? If there were no chemistry between AW and Carp, then Carp would care less about AW’s arm slot and just let him throw till his arm fell off.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great example with Waino and Carp! It can be shown, though: Wainwright arm slot & performance both before & after. It was a big deal, it was all over the press, and I would also think that similar observation-based turnarounds would be similarly vaunted. The workplace example makes a lot of sense in the workplace, but I think offices rely WAY more on teamwork than baseball teams. I consider it a largely individual sport, played on teams.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does this mean God = WAR
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging by his WAR numbers,
He’s a HOF for sure.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Similar to Chuck Norris's
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How well would you play....
if your girlfriend dumped you the night before. How well would you play if you have discovered alcoholism?
OTOH, how well would you play if somebody taught you a new pitch that does some devastating things coming out of your hand? OR, how well would you play if you changed your swing and added 5 mph of bathead speed? Granted, statistics would eventually catch up and measure the difference, but they just don’t tell the whole story when it comes to prediction.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granted, statistics would eventually catch up and measure the difference, but they just don’t tell the whole story when it comes to prediction.
aaaaand I didn’t say that they do.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Jimmy didn't hit an key offense markers but he has a lot of Gold Gloves.
Ozzie got in because of his glove more than his offense. Couldn’t Jimmy do the same?
How can your last name be baseball and your not in the HOF?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 4, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy, have your first name be Donnie or Jimmy
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple relevant links
Historical WAR (per Rally) and a CF analysis at BBS. He’d probably have my vote.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Historical WAR
I plotted it in the fanshots compared to other hall of fame players.
by JBrew on Jun 4, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Awesome stuff..
Question: is that against the average HOF batter? Did BtB give position by position HOF breakdowns? It would be interesting to see how he stacks up to the rest.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
its the average and “replacement” HOF batter, with the note of since 1955. The Historical WAR database only goes back that far so it was all there was. I’m not attached to the replacement line, but decided to include it.
When I first made the average HOF plot, I had intentions of splitting for each position but as it stands there are only 38 players total. I didn’t really want to split it down to only a few players at each position but might look at that again.
by JBrew on Jun 4, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great stuff. Thanks.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three runs will be enough for Carp tonight
with this putrid offense, we’re still a .500 club.
With an offense (see April), we’re NL champs.
Your choice, Mo.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on Jun 4, 2009 8:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good call
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Jun 5, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like Todd is up and Lohse to the DL according to FR
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jun 4, 2009 8:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
YAY! Todd!
I find it wierd we’re burning a 40-man position (I don’t think he needed to be protected this off-season, or am I wrong?) on Todd when we’ve seemingly not called up a Craig/Wallace-type bat at some point in the last month (presumably partly due to 40-man issues). But still. I like Todd a lot. I think he’s potentially an actually useful long man (i.e. when Thompson/Welly/Pinata can’t get out of the 4th/5th inning, Todd, with his starter’s pedigree and, so far in AAA, closer’s stuff, might be an above-replacement level bridge to the 7th/8th/9th).
That said, STILL 8 f’ing pitchers in the pen. It’s more defensible when one of your starters is Thompson and the 8th bullpen guy (Todd) might actually see some action, and be above replacement level, though. I still don’t like it but I think, at least in the short term, it’s not terrible.
Todd’s FIP from the pen this year in AAA has been Motte-esque. Our bullpen could be pretty awesome next year, and for less than $5m…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd
I too am looking forward to seeing him pitch in StL (assuming he will).
But, even with Lohse’s DL, Welley’s struggles, etc., I’m still not terribly concerned about the pitching.
I’m more interested in if/how Lohse’s injury will impact the search for more O
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Our bullpen could be pretty awesome next year, and for less than $5m…
Which is less than we’d be paying this guy right now for his incredibly mediocre season so far.
I continue to be amazed at how that team can win while overpaying so many guys by wide margins.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
next year by the looks of it:
Perez – $0.5m
Motte – $0.5m
KMac – $0.5m
Todd – $0.5m
Boyer – not sure what he’s making, I think he’ll be in arb? If so, probably not a lot over the minimum…
Reyes – $1.5m
random other LOOGY/miller option/manning/garcia – probably league minimum-ish
Total is ~ $5m, and, frankly, if we use Reyes exclusively vs lefties, Boyer mainly vs righties (when he’s not mopping up, or gets converted to a starter) and get a reasonable 2nd LOOGY, I’d say that could well be one of the better pens in MLB, certainly in the top half.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would it take to re-sign Franklin?
That man really deserves his due after the great start he has had. He is as lights-out as anyone in baseball this year.
I have always liked the guy, and apparently he really loves the closer role. If we could get him for another year at $5 million or so, I would be just fine with that. I know some of the statheads around here might kill me, but I really think a bit of veteran leadership might keep all the youngsters in the pen from running too wild.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never minded franklin that much
but I think $5m is way too much to pay for a guy who might not be that good in the pen. He’s had (including 2009) two good years plus one bad year in St Louis, and has been poor before that. However, there does seem to be some suggestion that his 2009 improvement is a “real” sign of a change in skillset (i.e. adding the cut FB and cutting out some of his crappier pitches from last year’s box of tricks), and that, maybe like Springer, he’s having a bit of a late-career effective period in StL.
I’d take him back on a cheaper contract but I’m not so sure we need him, and $5m seems too much when we let a better pitcher (Springer) walk for less this year.
I do agree to some extent that an older player in the pen isn’t a bad idea, although by next year KMac will have 2 full years of MLB experience… I’d probably rather look at someone else of similar experience but better track record if it’s going to cost $5m; there’s always effective arms out there, even late into spring training.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Kinney
could replace Franklin next year for the league minimum and you didn’t include him above. I’d rather take that $5M and invest it in the rotation by adding another #2 starter to the mix via trade or free agency. Obviously $5M won’t do it probably, but if you add that to another $7M or so that will be coming off the books, you could conceivably sign a John Lackey to a three year deal depending on the market. That would be a lot better investment than paying $5M to Franklin, imo.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He he
see below re:Kinney. I’m generally of the opinion that if you’re gonna pay $5m+ to a reliever, he’d better be an elite one. Not sure Franklin falls into that category…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
sometimes you don’t end up getting what you pay for either, referencing my link above.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true of any FA player though
not especially relievers, AFAIK. I think Fuentes will eventually be a good closer in LA, mind you. I just don’t think he was worth the money they (or we) offered.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AFAIK?
as far as I ____?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhh...
I feel so enlightened.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Franklin has $2.75M club option for 2010
my guess is they pick it up, and one of our righties listed above is traded at some point this year.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if his success continues
that’s probably closer to a fair price for the club. I’d probably pick that up.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
buyout of .25M so really, it's 2.5M
so half of the aforementioned amounts.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
like somebody said, having a veteren (I’m sorry, but Kmac won’t be a veteren yet) in the bullpen helps more than numbers will show. Relieving is just as much mental as it is physical, and somebody like Franklin can go a long way in stabilizing young relievers.
at least pay his beard league minimum
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I was too lazy to look up Franklinstein's contract status
that club option should be a no-brainer if he continues his performance.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the team should offer...
league minimum right now to get rid of his chin hair! It’s some of the worst I’ve seen on a pro athelete.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except supposedly...
Sampson looked good…at least Delilah (sp?) thought so.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious.
Are you basing that on anything, or just what we always hear from old-time baseball people? I promise I’m not trying to be snide; I’m honestly curious if there’s any sort of measurable effect you’re aware of, or just the standard “veteran presence” chestnut.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just chestnut
and having been in the situation. Sometimes, being a young pitcher, it can be more helpful to hear things from another player, as opposed to from a coach. There are intangible aspects to this game that have no measurable effect. I think I’ve seen people on here talking about some sort of “clutch hitting” calculation, but don’t know enough about sabermetrics to know where it comes from, or if there is one for pitching. I’m not trying to be snide, either, but sometimes it does seem like people forget about the human element of the game.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Human?
Tell that to la maquina, and prepared to be eliminated.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean HUMANS play this game?
I thought the box scores were just simulated by the PECOTA computer…. ;-)
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure the history of baseball was just for the purpose of creating raw data for PECOTA
Back in the late 1800’s some smart people realized eventually, maybe after 100 years, we’d have powerful calculating machines and could finally simulate baseball instead of actually having people play it. In the mean time, they decided it would be best to collect some in vivo stuff for baseline purposes, etc.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
people look up to others with more experience
that effect is unquantifiable
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Imagine yourself at age 22-25, you’re dragging in a half million dollars or so every year. You have NO good examples to follow. I can see how that can easily become an inmates-running-the-prison scenario.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea also of a verteran guy in the bullpen
Bullpen guys are like a whole separate part of the team. Think about they don’t even sit with the team during the game. Somebody has to teach these kids how to give a post game interview
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Franklin's Option
We have a club option of $2.75MM, I believe, for next season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 4, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also....
I forgot Kinney. Add one more potentially good righty (who could maybe do the Springer “ROOGY” routine), who I think could come back and be effective even this year…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking forward to seeing him!
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=paX07004&position=P
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Linky
RB (you must start reading his riverfront times column daily) had a link to Todd’s home town paper:
http://www.kilgorenewsherald.com/news/2009/0603/Sports/027.html
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jun 4, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mather
Does anyone think the Cards will forgo the trade market for now and call up Mather to have a go at 3rd?
The reason I ask is that although I believe Mo was serious about making a deal to fill 3rd, I’m guessing Lohse’s situation puts a crimp in that plan.
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 8:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see why a SP going down with a seemingly temporary injury changes anything about our third base/outfield hitting woes
I’d like to see Mather up at some point, IF he starts hitting again, to platoon with Skip Schumaker in LF. Keep Ank and possibly Duncan on board as 4th/5th OFers/pinch-hitting options/starters if either gets hot again, have Schu as backup 2B, Ryan starting at SS, Thurston starting at 2B vs righties, Barden starting at 2B vs lefties and backing up the SS role, and DeRosa/Beltre/Atkins/whoever starting at 3B. And one less frigging pitcher in the bullpen…
If there’s any way at all that SF will trade Matt Cain for something that doesn’t cripple our farm system (I’d let Wallace and maybe even Jones go, in the right deal) I’d like to get him, too, but that’s not really related to Lohse getting hurt.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I was assuming that Mo
would’ve used pitching to get a 3rd sacker. But, I could very well be wrong about that.
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the likely guys to trade for 3B would be RP or AAA starters
I guess Boggs might’ve been on the table, but with our lack of SP depth, maybe not.
Looks like Cleveland are asking for Motte/Perez for DeRo (though we could possibly get by with a Salas/Todd type, or maybe Reifer + a starter). I reckon the other teams who could give us a 3B are mostly looking for pitching (Seattle, Colorado). So you’re probably right, but we have enough C-level pitching depth in the minors to get away with keeping Boggs I’d have thought.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I am totally fine with Motte/Perez for DeRosa.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not...
I just don’t think he’s that big of an upgrade to be giving away an effective reliever who may have closer stuff who is already helping your team. I’d be fine with giving up someone like Reifer, Salas, or Kinney, but not Motte or Perez.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed fourstick
if we are going to package one of those two off in a deal for a rental player, I’d rather go with someone who has a higher potential ceiling, has a better chance of returning the draft pick(s) of top tier FAs, and one that could really impact our team in the Cleanup/5 hole.
Yes, I’m talking about this guy.
Our outfield production is atrocious, as is our lefty splits. personally, he’s who I want, and I’d rather let Thurston/Barden and or a Memphis call-up (Mather-starting to heat up, Wallace, Freese) play the hot-corner.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like you beat me to it
by a couple minutes
(see below)
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but there is no way we get Holliday for Perez or Motte.
While I do agree that Perez is quite a bounty for DeRosa, he is certainly a Type B free agent and marginally a Type A, so we wouldn’t just be trading for DeRosa. We would be trading for DeRosa and a draft pick or two. Also, we would be trading from a real position of strength (RH relief).
I don’t think our bullpen performance would suffer as a whole if we were to replace Motte or Perez with Todd.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't allude that Motte or Perez would be enough
but simply stated that if one of those two were to be involved in a trade, I’d want reciprocal “ceilings” coming back. I do understand that Beane would need something ‘else’ than one of those two, fwiw.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have any desire to acquire Holiday...
our OF hitting will come around. Ludwick IS a .900 OPS guy IMO, Duncan and Ankiel should return to their .850 OPS status and Rasmus will gradually make his way up to .800 OPS. Holiday is currently at .804, though he’ll probably finish better than that. The fact that he’s not much better than any of our first four options IMO, and that he will cost another $8M or so this year + significant talent to acquire I don’t think he offers enough in return…draft picks or no. If Mather is healthy again he may be a better hitter and defender than Holiday AND be able to fill in at third.
Bottom line I think Holiday is a product of Coors field and while he’s an above average corner OFer he’s not the elite hitter he’s been in the past.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Dunc and Ank are necessarily true-talent .850 OPS guys.
maybe dunc, at a push.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right...
but Ank had a .849 OPS coming into this season, and that included some prolonged slumps last year, and Duncan had a .884 OPS prior to last season. Both are missing their power strokes right now, and Ank’s may be because pitchers have adjusted to him, but I think they both have multiple years at .850 OPS’s in their future.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and coming into this season,
Matt Holiday is a CAREER .949 OPS with 3 silver slugger awards…‘Coors effect’ be damned, this online community is always very wary of small sample sizes. I for one feel basing two months of 2009 as indicators of what he will do for the remainder of this year is a bit ridiculous.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Holliday career home/away splits:
Home: .350/.418/.631/1.049
Away: .281/.350/.456/.805
Both samples are >1500 PAs, so I don’t think you can damn the Coors effect.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't most good hitters
outside of those who play at Petco, have better numbers at home?
his ((away X 2) + home)) / 3 = .304/.373/.514/.880
I don’t know why I did this, but even if it means nothing, I feel like i have created something
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, picking a few of my favorite hitters:
Albert:
H: .338/.434/.628/1.062 (holy sht)
A: .332/.420/.624/1.044 (holy sht)
Arod:
H: .313/.394/.595/.989
A: .298/.384/.561/.945
Miggy
H: .316/.389/.549/.938
A: .307/.376/.535/.912
Not saying my 3 cherry-picked sample is representative, but their numbers are slightly lower away, nothing like the “BA at home = OBP on the road” type disparity for Holliday. Can’t imagine discrepancy like his is anywhere near normal for someone that doesn’t play in a park with a huge (or tiny) park factor.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
But they aren’t 200 points of OPS better at home, that would be ridiculous. His slugging is nearly .200 points better at Coors than on the road. There’s something to be said for the Coors effect, even after the humidor.
Also, his away line from above is nearly exactly what he’s hitting this year. Coincidence? Probably, given the small sample size from this year. But a truly alarming one for anyone in a non-hitters park that wants to deal for him.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just because I don't know
how is Oakland’s stadium rated? (I don’t even know what it’s called)
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oakland is a very pitcher friendly park
big OF, lots of foul territory, somewhat dead air.
by DriverZn on Jun 4, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go..included an explanation
Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road.
A rate higher than 1.000 favors the hitter. Below 1.000 favors the pitcher.
PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))
Oakland: 0.868
Busch III: 0.937
Coors: 1.401
2009 data only.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so...
0.937-0.868 = 0.069
1.069 X his current line: (avg/obp/slg/ops/ops+)
.290/.392/.467/.859/125
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
looks good to me.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an extremely simplistic calculation...
I like it, but if that’s the case his OPS in Oakland would be about .470 or so. You also aren’t adjusting for changing leagues, which makes a big difference as well.
It’s not nearly that low. I would guess that if he’s true to his splits he would hit a little bit better than he’s hitting in Oakland this season if he were traded to St. Louis.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would hit a little bit better than he’s hitting in Oakland this season if he were traded to St. Louis.
that’s the point I was trying to get accross by manipulating the numbers. .859 OPS sounds good right about now, with room for improvement
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
but let’s look at marginal upgrades for a minute.
I think we can get someone like Matt Cain for the same package that we’re going to have to give up to get Matt Holliday. He represents a much larger marginal upgrade to the rotation than Holliday does to the offense. We also get to keep him much longer than one year.
I also think we could find a third baseman that could help us more than Holliday’s marginal upgrade in LF.
I think we could upgrade at second base, moving Skippy back to LF where he belongs, for about what it would cost to get Matt Holliday.
See what I mean? A 3 WAR player upgrading a 2 WAR position is worth 1 WAR more, but a 3 WAR player upgrading a replacement level player, and we have a few of those starting right now, is worth a full 3 wins. I would rather go after that guy.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I was right...
but I do believe both parts to be true. I don’t think Holliday is measurably better than any of our top four outfielders (maybe five is Mather is healthy), and we don’t have to give up our best prospect and 2-3 other decent prospects while paying $8-9 million for those five.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday
is better than all our OF, with the possible exception of Ludwick. I still hate the idea of trading for him, though.
He’s unquestionably measurably better than Ankiel and Duncan, at the very least.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced...
his barely over .800 OPS away from Coors Field leaves me quite skeptical till he proves he’s a .850 OPS hitter elsewhere. He is probably a better hitter than Ankiel (mainly due to OBP), and fielder than Duncan, but he’s not significantly/measurably IMO than either of them.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
as mentioned above, most hitters OPS ~.050 less away from home than they do at home. So if we assume a park-neutral road environment for Holliday’s career (not true as he’s spent a lot of it in LA, SF and San Diego, all very good pitchers’ parks), his “true” OPS might be in the .850 region.
Rick’s career OPS is .793 (which over-rates him as his OBP is low; his wOBA, .341 is barely above league average) and he’s fallen off the face of the earth as a hitter this year (and the end of last). Ank is, per UZR, a below average fielder (to the tune of 7 runs/season) in the OF, although most of that’s in CF (he is a -ve in the corners too, but in a small sample size), so he could be average or even slightly above as a LF or RF, but, so far, he’s a below average fielder.
Dunc’s career OPS is .830, pretty solid, with a .357 wOBA. However, he gives all that back in the field, as he’s 8 or 9 runs below average in either corner spot over a decent sample size (and pretty terrible to watch, too).
Holliday, then, is a much better hitter than either in his career, and a slightly better hitter than either if we allow for the “Coors effect” by taking his road OPS and giving it a small bump due to the fact that players routinely hit worse on the road. He’s also an above-average fielder (worth 8 runs/season more than the average LF), making him a better gloveman (so far) than either Ankiel or Duncan. So, he’s a better hitter and a better fielder, as per the numbers.
Even if we use the (largely unfair) method of assuming his career road OPS will be what he’ll manage outside of Coors, he’s a slightly better hitter than Ankiel, and a slightly worse hitter than Dunc, but he’s already nearly 2 wins better than Duncan in the field, more than making up the hitting difference.
So yeah, Holliday’s way better than them, even in the most pessimistic review of his talents.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Betting on
“multiple years at .850 OPS” for Ankiel would be, I think, a great way to lose a lot of money.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 4, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
It all depends on...
whether his slump has been due to injury or to pitcher adjustments. .850 is probably on the high end of what he will do, but I think he’s got enough power to slug close to .525 regularly…and I think he can maintain a .325 OBP.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, while I like Joey Bombs...
there is absolutely no way in hell we can assume we will be as good a hitter and/or fielder as the All-Star Holliday.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please
don’t imply the fact that Holliday was an all-star automatically makes him a great player.
He’s pretty good. He looks even better right now, since all our OF is either slumping, hurt, or both. BUT, for what he would cost, how in the world would he help this team win at least 4 or 5 more games?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just sayin, maybe we need to practice what we preach...
first, i love Ryan Ludwick, but, I’m trying to be completely objective here, but we are very quick to defend his ‘ability’ and his ‘status’ on the merits of his all-star selection and silver slugger award. But, I’m not able to say that Matt Holiday is a better due to his multiple accolades as a Silver Slugger and All-Star berths? I’m projecting a bit here, and I know it, but I’d say the vast majority of this community feels Ludwick is an above average player, one we’d like to keep due to great value, high ceiling, and overall class. Now, given the merits of his accomplishments, and given those of Matt Holliday, am I wrong saying that RIGHT NOW, Matt Holiday is a more proven hitter than Ryan Ludwick, and therefore may offer us greater protection in the cleanup spot? Personally, I like my opinion on this matter, but I understand that’s my opinion.
And for the record, I have avoided the conversation of ‘cost’ because to be absolutely honest, I have no clue what it would take to get him. I started on this dialogue because the comment you made about giving up Motte or Perez (solely) for DeRosa. I personally felt that if you are going to include one of those prime value, high ceiling contributors of the present and future, I’d like to do so in an exchange that could potentially net more reciprocal ‘talent’ and/or ceiling. There absolutely is a prohibitive cost, if the return to get him is too high.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken.
I think the arguement is a pretty simple one really. I believe a more subtle move to address a need may help the team more. You believe getting the best hitter available would help the team more. Both sides have lots of merit.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just FYI
Ludwick was an All-Star and a Silver Slugger while playing in a much more difficult home park than Holliday. Have you seen Ludwick’s splits at Coors field?
.692/.667/1.615/2.282
Obviously that’s only 15 AB’s…but you get my overall point….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put me on board
with no thank you. I like DeRosa, and think he would be a nice addition, but I think six years of either one of those guys is more valuable than four months of DeRo.
However, DeRo is kind of a cool nickname, so I may have to rethink my position.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ReBa is almost as cool
so you have that going for you
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooh, that's true.
Except then every time I heard it I would think of Reba McIntyre’s (spelling?), television show, and then I would have to punch myself in the face for bringing it up. So, think I’ll have to pass.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain
outside of Pujols and Rasmus, I’d seriously consider everyone else of value if Cain was being offered
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd even consider...
players with little or no value.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
outfield
responding in fragments here…
…I don’t expect that Cards to anything about the collective outfield slump except tough it out until they (hopefully) start heating up
I’d even accept league average production from them at this point
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
That’s the difference between the 3B and OF situations, I think. The team needs an upgrade at third, I think, whereas in the outfield, there’s enough talent already there. Ludwick and Rasmus alone make it one of the better OFs in the game; either get one of Duncan/ Ankiel going, or bring back the Bombinator when he’s ready, and things start to look really good. I’m not sure there’s really an in-house solution to 3B.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mather is back to hitting
2 hits, one a HR last night. He’s hot: call him up before he cools off, Barden’s doing nothing.
by ridgesee on Jun 4, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our offensive offensive ineptitude
This might actually be a topic for a FanPost, but I noticed an alarming trend in regards to our less than potent offense.
It is no secret that we have lacked offensive potency for a while, but our ability to score (especially in bunches) has been nonexistent since the series beginning May 12 at Pittsburgh.
In the 21 games that have transpired starting May 12, the Cards have managed just TWO innings scoring three runs or more. By my count, that is a paltry 1.1% of our innings (2 of 183, as home wins only have 8). I don’t have the data in front of me for what league averages are for 3+ run innings, but 1.1% is certainly woeful.
The two innings:
Tuesday: Stav scored 2 on a misplayed “2B” and came around to score on a wild pitch
5/26: Colby and WW homered and Skip hit an RBI single
Somehow we have managed to go 10-11 in these games, but if the trend continues our pitchers better be untouchable.
If anyone has any resources to look at frequency of 3+ run innings across the league or historically without manually parsing game data, your help is much appreciated. Is a 3-R HR too much to ask for??
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers
Have scored 3+ runs in 11 innings over that time frame (or about 6% of their innings) while going 13-8. Moreover, they had a multitude of 4- 5- and 6-run innings, of which we managed zero. Our last 4 run inning was on May 7.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just utterly bizarre.
Offensive struggles are one thing, but to realise that the team hasn’t hit a single 3 run homer for the better part of a month is just almost impossible to imagine. That’s the sort of thing that even terrible offensive teams luck into regularly.
Really strange.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last 3+ HR we hit was on 4/25...
Albert’s GS against the Cubs. Seriously, WTF! How is that possible??
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody gets on base
not all that strange. .299 obp for the month of may.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 4, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eesh.
That .299 was good for last in the NL. .688 monthly OPS? That’s like sending 9 Joe McEwing’s up there.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I lol'ed
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Skip having a good year
because everyone else is sucking? or because he’s going to be a solid offensive player going forward? what’s it going to take to get B_G Mac to come out of hiding and take over as the hitting coach? surely he could do better than, be aggressive be be aggressive McRae? I know the hitting coach doesn’t have a huge effect, but he seems to have helped Skip.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Skip's having a good year
because he’s a reasonable hitter. He’s been pretty consistent, year-to-year, since making the big leagues. I think he’s an .800 OPS guy going forward, especially if his exposure to LHP is limited.
He’s also a + defender in LF, and a liability at 2B, so I’m moving towards the idea of shifting him back to his best position…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
Him staying at 2B allows the OF prospects to work their way up. What would have happened with Colby if Skip stayed in the OF? I think the experiment has worked out and he’s only going to get better at 2B. Skip hasn’t been bad against lefties so far this year. He’s been limited in his exposure to them, but he’s still getting on base at a .351 clip against them (higher than against righties)
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the transition is working, too.
He made a solid play last night, and is making better throws to first (especially compared to the guy that would replace him at second). He has SO much more value as a .800 OPS 2 bagger than a .800 OPS left fielder.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the concept of positional adjustments and comparative values, but I wonder
If a team has a unique enough situation, does that kind of thinking cause problems? If a team has enough offense from the rest of their lineup, they can totally afford to have Pedro Feliz as their 3B, even though he hits comparatively worse than most 3B. So, if our lineup was constructed a certain way, we could afford to just put Skip at LF (assuming he’s not blocking DJ Tools yet or anything like that). A lineup in a game does not take positional adjustments into account or anything, the players just go to bat and it’s entirely separate from where they play defense, strictly speaking. So I wonder if the positional value-influenced thinking that is prevalent on the web these days has somewhat skewed peoples’ perception of roster construction in certain ways? Just a thought, I am not disparaging cardzfanbub’s comment at all.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless
Barden/Thurston is going to hit better than Skip going forward, keeping Skip at 2B provides an in-house answer at 2B, a position of much change in the past, and saves the organization money to put towards ______.
I don’t think that has anything to do with what you’re saying, just my thoughts on the situation.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is not true
Thurston/Barden will be at least average at 2B while Schumaker is horrible at 2B. So even if they don’t hit as good as Schumaker when you factor in the glove they don’t have to be even that close.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
depends on how much you value 2B defense
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I rank defense just under walk rate’s as the most important thing for a ball player to posses. My reasoning is that even when you are in a slump that happens to everyone at least you have your defense to fall back on. The same thing about a good steady walk rate.
Defense + Walk Rate = Steady value throughout a season
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, walk rate is lauded as being slump-proof, but I question that.
Isn’t Colby in a bit of a walk slump right now? Come to think of it, isn’t our entire outfield (minus Luddy) in a walk slump right now?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what I was thinking
I also wonder how luck-proof walk rate is? I seem to remember some giddiness at how many walks Ankiel was taking, once upon a time…
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colby is a noob so he doesn't count
I am talking about players that have shown they have down it repeatedly over multiple seasons
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the point is that,
while average, slg, etc. could fluctuate wildly between seasons, walk rate is going to be pretty consistent. Thats not saying its going to be the same month to month, but walk rate in one year is going to be much more predictive of walk rate in the next whereas avg, slg, whatever won’t correlate as well.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see walk rate as a skill
While AVG and SLG are also skills they also have higher variance rates due to so many other facts
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
With walks, the only real factors besides the batter’s skill are quality of pitches/pitchers, and I guess the umpire and maybe some slight park effects for Coors or something.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
variance, theres the word I wanted.
nice.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walk Rate
Judging by that, we need to completely abolish batting average from our lexicon entirely and not even track that stat at all.
I like it.
by VinegarBend on Jun 4, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is amazing to me how just a few hits can affect average:
over a season (500 PAs), just 12 texas leaguers, seeing-eye ground balls, duckfarts, wingnuts, whatever, is the difference between .275 and .300
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Crash
You hear all week?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Humpbacks, swinging bunts, tricklers,
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thinking on Skip
it’s maybe a bit early to bale on 2B because, like you say, to the naked eye he’s actually looked OK. On the other hand, his range is bad and isn’t going to get any better – if he was getting to balls and booting them/making bad throws I’d think there was room for improvement on his basic skillset, but I just don’t see how he’ll learn a quicker first-step/more athleticism. He’ll probably hit for an .800 OPS, though, which would play OK in LF (where he’s a positive fielder, and where our other LH option, Duncan, is a similar, arguably slightly better hitter, but a much worse fielder) but only really brings him up to replacement level at 2B.
Basically, I’m saying he’s a good LF but probably a pretty bad 2B going forward, and we have some decent internal 2B options (Thursty/Bard platoon) that could probably do better, AS WELL AS a gaping hole in LF where Dunc continues to be pretty mediocre. I’m not saying we should dump Dunc, or Ank, just yet, but consider starting Schu more often in LF (where an .800 OPS plays fine anyhow).
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I was kinda coming around to something like this
only you said it better than I would have. I can envision that, at the end of the year, Skip could have had higher value in LF for the team than 2B.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about next year and the year after that
when players like Wallace or Jones or Jay are ready to come up?
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll grant that completely
In fact I’m starting to worry that we won’t find something to do with Skip and he will end up making their situations difficult unfairly. I am very excited for those two, especially Jones because I am finally admitting to myself that Wallace is not a sure bet to actually end up as a major league third baseman with us.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would have happened with Colby if Skip stayed in the OF?
I think he’d be an everyday AAA player and we’d have him team-controlled for more prime years.
I think it’s a crappy system for the players, but I’d aim to consider any financial edge as a GM.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and blog chaos would follow
He would have been called up after the injuries though, i would assume.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outfield help?
Apparrently Matt Holliday is ok with a trade. He hasn’t been lighting it up in Oakland, but He’s righthanded and in the final year of his contract. Depending on what Billy Beano would ask for him, would he be worth a gamble? Or does Haren/Mulder still sting too much to deal with Oakland?
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Apparrently Matt Holliday is ok with a trade.
Funny you should say that…I just overheard him talking to his agent, Scott Boras:
“Get me out of Oakland!!! I want to go back to Coors Field!!! Please!!! I’ll do anything!!!”
Ugh, enough with the Matt Holliday talk unless he’s going to come here and play 3B.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If skip can play 2B why can't he play 3B?
seriously though, package Ankiel in the deal with a couple minor league pitchers and that leaves you an OF of Holliday, Rasmus, Ludwick with Duncan off the bench. Lineup of (OPS) :
Schumaker (.768)
Rasmus (.752)
Pujols (1.149)
Holliday (.804)
Ludwick (.771)
Thurston (.812)
Molina (.702)
Pitcher
Ryan (.721)
might produce at a better clip than what’s currently out there.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would Oakland want Ankiel?
he’s crap right now, and I’m guessing will only be a type B unless he turns it on for the remainder of the year. I know he’s cheap, but I think Jon Jay or Allen Craig would have more value to the A’s than Ankiel.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just tell the A's
you can have the pitchers you want, but you also have take Ankiel. he’s in a contract year too, so they are saving money this year & next.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
Why would we just give them a bunch of minor league starters, one of the areas that our farm system is traditionally weak, and then just throw in Rick Ankiel for the hell of it? That doesn’t make much sense at all. It’s not like we’re dumping a tremendously amount of salary by trading Rick.
They would ask for Wallace, Ludwick, Perez/Motte, Jay, Jones, and Anderson, probably in that order. They are stacked to the gills with starting pitching but will need some help with position players as their rotation starts to round into shape in the next couple of years.
Hell, why not just trade them Rick Ankiel for Adam Kennedy and move Skip back to LF? We’re already paying Kennedy and he’s out OPSing Holliday this season….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your crazy man, I like you, but your crazy
I just think is might be worth it to kick the tires and see what they ask for. The majority of people seem to be down on Ankiel, so I just threw him out there. I know they won’t be able to pull the wool over Beane’s eye’s, but who knows, maybe a reasonable trade could result. if not, no harm, no foul.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there are much better deals to be had
If we’re going to trade our one prized trade chip, which is Wallace, and that’s almost certainly going to be the beginning and end of any discussions for Matt Holliday.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that would be fine with me
if Mo asked, and they said Wallace, then I wouldn’t want the deal. I’m just curious, more than anything, about what Beane would ask for. Holliday hasn’t been tearing the cover off the ball so he’s not really in a sell high position.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He shouldn't be in a sell high mode
but I think this is one of those times when the player’s name is going to up the value of any deal a bit. Just my .02 on the issue.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...
and the Kennedy thing was a total joke, btw. He apparently only hits worth a shit when he’s playing in the AL west.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip would probably be better at 3B than 2B
his lack of range and agility wouldn’t be such a factor and the things he’s good at (decent reactions, decent at catching hard-hit drives, strong arm) would play better at that spot. I guess we’d have tried him at third instead of 2nd in the spring if we’d not been apparently stacked at that position, and it might not be a crazy idea for him to move there in the future, but I really can’t see a second wierd-ass positional switch for the cobbler in the same year.
Also, our LFers are currently producing jack-squat, and Duncan is a liability there in the field. See where this is heading???
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that idea
put skip at third!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I am a little suprised it hasn't happened yet
He can’t be any worst than he is at 2B
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus he has the arm to do it so why not?
put brendan ryan at SS (or tyler greene if somehow he gets called up), shift the 3B platoon to a 2B platoon, and there ya go! maybe skip can get some tutelage from Oquendo and be the next secret weapon
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I know at 2B
Skip has a negative value to the team. He is offense is not good enough to make up for how bad he is at defense at 2B. I want to find daily or even month to month UZR data but I don’t know where to find it I would like to see his progress at 2B
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me that's the key...
what does May look like compared to April. In my minds’ eye he has improved substantially…but what do the numbers say?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the numbers are whispering in my ear
move Skip to third!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was an oddly loud whisper
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there is any way...
they ask that of Skip this season. Skip still prefers the outfield AFAIK. MAYBE they try it in the offseason if the 3B situation is still a ?…but I still doubt it.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be completely off base
but isn’t third a little bit easier to play than second? or are Skip’s reflexes just not fast enough to get those line drives down the line?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
third's a bit easier yeah
and I think his skill-set plays a bit better there, just from observation. I say we keep moving him round the diamond until we find a spot he can stick at :-)
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not
he can’t really be confused much more than he already is
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His Bat is not the problem
His glove is currently negative 10 runs so far in this season. I honestly believed going into the season he would be negative 30 runs with the glove. He looks like he is proving me to be right with about a third of the season over with.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's kind of scary
I will just keep telling myself he’s improving, small sample size, players-aren’t-walking-statsheets, first out at third, small ball, RBIWinsSacrificeBunt and whatever other lies and half-truths I need to in order to feel better about it.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gin. also.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, a stiff Americano or Negroni would be good right now.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JustWatchAlbertJustWatchAlbertJustWatchAlbert
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to disagree without numbers
but do you really think Skip has cost the team 10 runs?
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least.
Defensively speaking only, of course.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I just don't see it
maybe it would be more noticeable if the team was scoring more than 2 runs/game
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree
that, by eye, he hasn’t looked too bad. He doesn’t get to a lot of balls that a good 2B would lay a glove on, but his basics (throwing, catching, glovework) at the position don’t look THAT bad. I guess I just haven’t seen the (total estimate) TWENTY-odd plays that Schu hasn’t made this year that an average 2B would need to make, in order for him to be -10 runs with the glove.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, but here's the rub:
he’s missed those 20 plays in, what, 55 games? Are you telling me you recall each of those games well enough to say that Skip hasn’t let through one grounder every two games?
Does he look all that bad? No. Then again, neither does Derek Jeter playing shortstop, but we know for a fact that he is, in fact, hurting his team in the field.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do have a lot of facts
and that’s a fact
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its what I don't remember seeing that sticks out...
Like getting to a ball in short right field. TAKE THAT, SCIENCE!
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't look now on Jeter
2008: -0.5 UZR, -0.7 UZR/150
2009 (so far): 0.4 UZR, 3.0 UZR/150
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IT'S THE EYES
True Yankee.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet!
He’s turned his career around! Best shortstop ever.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes cause 36 years olds get better on defense
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chipper jones says "FU VEP."
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not better...
grittier.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ladies and Gentleman, we have a Gordon Beckham Sighting!
Sox DFA Betemit, promote Beckham
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my sox fan co-worker
just came in a few minutes ago grinning ear to ear
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm very interested in that
I’ll have to watch a game or 2.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that betemit trade worked out about as well as expected by everybody except maybe the sox.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beckham
My husband is taking his nephew to the Sox game this afternoon and is very excited to see Beckham play. Interested to get the full report.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by ChiTown CardFan on Jun 4, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Beckham was at AAA Charlotte,
So depending on game and travel times, its unclear whether he would be available to play today. Even if he is, likely not going to be in anything other than maybe a PH or defensive sub role.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the Reds, Brewers
series almost in it’s entirety this past weekend and Nix and Hanagan looked completely over matched by Brewer’s pitching (In fact the whole team looked weak) then they come to St Louis and look like a couple of all stars. go figure.
by ridgesee on Jun 4, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
TLR vs Twitter
TLR apparently won his suit against twitter for somebody impersonating him. Some of it would be hilarious were it not, you know, dragging dead players into it. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/EE6F33724CD83215862575CB0005FF0A?OpenDocument
There are screenshots of it somewhere.
by spencegrif on Jun 4, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Apparently won? I thought the suit was just filed.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RIP David Carradine
hung himself in a hotel room in bangkok
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
by Cuttah on Jun 4, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
damn
can’t believe it, I didn’t even think this was real first. RIP
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was pretty shocked at saddened by this news.
I mean, talk about an ignoble end. I liked David Carradine, and that is a pretty creepy and bizarre way for somebody you like to die. Furthermore, I heard he was dead and had no idea of the circumstances until I looked it up online. I assume he had died at home of a heart attack or something else normal like that.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't it better for samuri's to commit suicide?
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a repeated spelling fail.
Samurai.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but they are supposed to fall upon their swords, aren't they?
The funny part in his profile is that the guy is actually Irish and Native American. Not a drop of Asian blood in him.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seppuku fail
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's pretty unbelievable
It’s hard to really comment on because I still kind of can’t believe it. Talk about being blindsided.
RIP.
by TheBirds on Jun 4, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you
think this was a case of autoerotic asphyxiation?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 4, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a comment
over at my blog that suggests it may have been. Ew.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They edited it after the fact
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard they are actually not sure it was suicide or not
Apparently he had tied up his genitals too. So it could of been something sexual that went wrong.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
when the plot thickens with this one, it really thickens. I had not heard anything about that.
Though, I read that he was naked. I had just assumed it was on drugs or decided to die naked. Ugh. This just gets worse and worse.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was in Thailand
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a red flag
There are only so many reasons somebody with money would go to Thailand voluntarily.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where's akaitori when ya need him
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't he working on a movie in Thailand??
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be one of the possible reasons
but the others that come to mind are way more icky.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I just looked it up
he was filming a movie.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't really change things much
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
but at least he had a reason to be in Thailand. If somebody just goes to Thailand I half expect that person to be a sex tourist until proven otherwise.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when in Thailand...
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barton got called up last night and played in Atlanta
You guys probably already know this.
I was watching the Cubs game . He pinch ran. Then got caught stealing. Then played right field. Yeah, right field believe it or not.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he looked scrawnier than i remember
and his helmet didn’t go flying off, which is probably why he got caught stealing. even though it looked like he might have got there.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could really use him right now
a right-handed outfield bat with some patience at the plate and a decent glove. As opposed to a kinda-crappy right-handed reliever…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's not eating well in Georgia?
Geez.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 4, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going right back down too I bet
Considering that they just added Nate McClouth..
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish Tony would look at these numbers:
Since May 24th last 10 games,
Rasmus is hitting .321/.345/.714/1.059 w/ 2 HRs
Duncan is hitting .242/.306/.364/.669 w/ 1 HR
Rick is hitting .136/.174/.273/.447
And for comparison
Skippy is .316/.366/.368/.734
Can anyone explain why you don’t start one of your hottest bats every single day?
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jun 4, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Duncan's hit a HR in the last 10 games?
How did I miss that?
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
May 26th
in an 8-1 thomping of the Brew Crew http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIL/MIL200905260.shtml
HR: N Stavinoha (1, off J Suppan; 2nd inn, 0 on, 2 outs to Deep LF); C Duncan (4, off S McClung; 6th inn, 1 on, 2 outs to Deep CF-RF); A Wainwright (1, off J Suppan; 4th inn, 0 on, 2 outs to Deep LF-CF); C Rasmus (5, off J Suppan; 4th inn, 0 on, 0 outs to Deep CF).
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jun 4, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Video..
Here. I didn’t remember it either so I went looking.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man
I even watched (most of) that game. Too many Franklins, not enough brain cells…
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I can explain.
Three letters: T.L.R.
You must expect—and even embrace—the bizarre. Don’t try to analyze these things in greater depth; that way lies madness.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 4, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can't have it both ways
castigate TLR for playing small sample-size matchups, then chastise him for not starting a player entirely base on his hitting stats for the last 7 or 8 games he’s started. But I take your point.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the columnist, or the race car guy?
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha.
Totally with you on that one. Actually, I would have been with you either way, but I wanted to know exactly whom I was directing my hatred at today.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops.
That last sentence should read “…to know at whom exactly I was directing my hatred today.”
Grammatical failure for me.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Will Destroy Us All
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still wish
I had that patented. Think of all the tee shirt sales I’m missing out on. Like, three, at least.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else think he is getting show cased for a trade?
Cause Todd is exactly what we have a surplus of, RHP
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh...yea i do
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they gotta prove...
that he’s “major-league ready”
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has been destroying AAA with a Sub 2.0 FIP
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really the only sensible explanation.
what we need now is someone to absorb innings in low leverage relief. i’m struggling to figure out why todd is better than a lot of options not on the 40-man (walters, boggs, the hawk, etc.). this makes sense. todd for derosa sounds about right.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
with an 8-man ‘pen, we could kind of piggyback Thompson and Todd. Todd used to be a starter, so going a couple or 3 innings shouldn’t be too hard for him.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to pretend...
like they are calling him up to take Motte’s place, make Motte the closer and put Franklin on the block. I like Franklin well enough, and I believe the cutter is the difference, but I like the idea of a pen that has Motte, Todd and Perez in it for multiple years.
If Todd shows well is Perez below both he and Motte on the depth chart?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't fuck with a good thing
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost...
went with my wife being a good thing, but…probably not appropriate.
You’re probably right, and it would make more sense to make Todd available than Franklin…thing is we could save $3M+ (chump change I realize), have a very good late inning reliever for six years cost controlled, and probably get more in return if we trade Franklin.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until Perez gets his walk rate under control
I don’t think you can use him in high leverage innings.
by DriverZn on Jun 4, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really..
don’t see much reason for Todd to be called up. Maybe showcasing him as trade bait?
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yknow
it is interesting
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: What is your favorite stat to judge players?
I am curious what stat do you guys look at when evaluating players? Like when I look at hitters I first look at their walk rate. I feel that a hitter that walks a lot is most important thing for an offense. For Relief Pitchers I always look at their K/BB rate. 2.0 is the minimum I put for a decent player. Starting pitching can be a little trickier but I normally look at WHIP to see how many guys they are putting on base.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sort of embarrassing
but I’m still trying to wrap my mind around wOBA. my big victory from last season was understanding BABIP, at first I just thought it sounded retarded
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wOBA is a weighted onbase + slugging system
Just remember
.300 = bad
.340 = average
.400 = good
OBP + SLG = Flawed
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why do you just throw OPS under the bus like that?
I mean, I wouldn’t say it is completely flawed… also, what about OPS+? where’s the best place to get OPS+ stats?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best place
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
duh
I knew that
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had a discussion about this the other day..... I think SleepyCA
Because OBP is actually more valuable than SLG
If you had a team full of .400 OBP + .400 SLG vs .300OBP + .500SLG both would be .800 OPS
But the .400 OBP would score about 100 more runs in a season
(someone smarter chime in)
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the stat is good at showing the peeps who both slug and get on base a lot
I guess it’s not as good at measuring the difference between middle of the pack offensive players though I suppose
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was me who mentioned that the other day
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OPS treats a point of slugging the same as a point of OBP, when a point of OBP is more condusive to run scoring
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OBP + SLG = Flawed
I think that’s overstating things a bit. Plus I’ve actually seen mainstream sports journalists and broadcasters use it, and they even put it on the scoreboard at Chase Field. I prefer wOBA myself, but even though it slightly pains me to say it I think pairing with league-average OBP (~.335) rather than AVG (as Baseball Prospectus’ EqA does) was a well-intentioned mistake as it pertains to public acceptance. OPS has the benefit of 1000 being really good, and that’s an easy number.
http://www.basement-dwellers.com/2008/06/why-do-i-keep-using-ops.html
That article has a graph that attempts to report the accuracy of wOBA, OPS, AVG, SLG, and all sorts of other things including variations on OPS which analyze and adjust the importance of the on-base side of it. Look at how close OPS and wOBA are. Highly recommended reading!
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll post some highlights here too:
…MLB team offense totals, 2005-2007…Numbers closer to 1.0 indicate a closer relationship between runs scored and the statistic in question
AVG: 0.7244
OBP: 0.8340
OPS: 0.9231
wOBA: 0.9350
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot:
Dirt on uniform: 0.9357
Jawline: 0.9457
Heart: 0.9662
“Something special”: 0.9488
Grit: 0.9951 (!!!)
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And YOU forgot being a “gamer.” Sup, internet?! :D
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there ya go
OPS ain’t so bad
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see how they compare among players with...
Similar OPS’s but large differences between their OBP and SLG percentages
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are always outliers. I’d like to see that too, but I think his point is sufficiently made about how close OPS and wOBA are with regard to general performance.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I normally use OPS for its simplicity
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like you say, there ARE outliers
so it’s important to examine the ACTUAL slash lines, or look at wOBA or something.
Actual case in point: Ankiel OPSed something half decent against LHP last year (despite looking mostly clueless against lefties), I think it was like .750 or something off the top of my head. HOWEVER, when you look a bit closer, it was powered by a (probably unsustainable) high slugging % (likely cracked a few dingers than his FB% would predict, or got a bit lucky on BIP or something), and his OBP vs LHP was like .280 or something similarly awful. So a bit more detailed look at the numbers would demonstrate that Ank actually IS pretty crap at hitting lefties…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you looked at Ank’s wOBA vs LHP would you have drawn a different conclusion? That’s a sample size issue, and checking that first would cast a proper light on either wOBA or OPS. The slash line sure is easy to read, though.
I use wOBA by default; that’s my go-to all-in-one offensive stat. I wouldn’t call OPS out, though, as it’s pretty damn simple and pretty damn accurate. I think that looking down our noses at OPS is a great way to keep stat-haters looking down their noses at us and OPS is already cracking the mainstream.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does wOBA not have a perfect correlation?
The numbers are based off of the average run value of each event in a given year. In theory, league wOBA should match up perfectly with runs scored.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are wOBA and GPA the same thing, just weighted differently?
I like how closely wOBA is scaled to OBP (which I’m sure is part of the point). I think the average OBP and wOBA tend to hover around .330 or so.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wOBA uses linear weights, GPA is simply (OBP*1.8+SLG)/4 with (optional?) park adjustments. If someone has an OBP of .400 and a SLG of .600, their GPA would be .720+.600/4, which is .330 or “totally awesome” expressed in BA. wOBA is perfectly scaled to OBP; for any given year, league average wOBA will be EXACTLY equal to league average OBP.
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, so they're actually a lot different then.
And I didn’t know that wOBA was actually scaled to OBP exactly, I just knew that they intended it to be a similar scale to OBP. Oh yeah, and I forgot that GPA was intended to resemble BA moreso than OBP. Maybe someday I’ll actually read one of the SABR-type books, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to just ask people on VEB.
Thanks!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
big fan of WHIP
just seems like a really simple and objective way to see if they are a good pitcher or not.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the major flaw with WHIP....
is that a single is weighted equally to a home run….you can pitch 9 innings and give up 9 homeruns and have a WHIP of 1.00…..I’m a big fan of OPS and OPS against
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OPS is too flawed for me
I just rather have a stat line. I even use OPS when I explain things to people since it is easy but it is not weighted.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed...but its easier to explain that wOBA
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel ya
We just got some people to start using OPS I don’t want to tell them it is outdated now
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I think that's a big issue
OPS is winning people over, so why mess with a good thing? Now if only we could get them to stop pronouncing it as if it’s an acronym…
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
but I also don’t say “opps” because opps is not a word. Whip is a word. Oddly enough you never hear people pronounce ERA as a word, even though era is totally a word. Maybe it’s because era is actually relevant to a lot of baseball discussions, and that’s just too confusing.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh
OK, maybe I’m off base. I had never heard of anybody actually pronouncing OPS until people started making fun of the ESPN guys doing it. So I assumed nobody actually pronounced it. The feeling I got was that their pronouncing it was like a metaphor for how not “with it” they were or something.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait Wait Wait
People say OPS like OPuS? I just say the letters out
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno about “OPuS,” but I say it like “special ops” (operations).
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have never heard somebody say it like "opus"
Only “ops”. WHIP is not just an acronym, it’s an acronym that is actually a real word, unlike say, SONAR which was not a word until it was made into one by virtue of being an acronym. So I think WHIP is the only baseball initialism that really makes sense as an acronym. It’s just too hard not to pronounce it. It’s also four letters long and has a W, so it’s a lot harder to say by spelling it out.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same - O P S
I don’t like you guys because you are different!
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, we have to have some standards here
Can’t let the rabble just do whatever they want now can we.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always say
O P S
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is how I saw "OPP"
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you do, in fact, know me.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
god, i love a good pronuncation discussion
here’s one for the database connoisseurs…
SQL = pronounced “sequel” or S-Q-L
by _pistol_ on Jun 4, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SQL
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sequel is a specific database database product
SQL is a standard. Or something free like my s q l.
Please, keep up.
ok, that last part was a joke.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
S Q L
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always say
E-R-A
O-P-S
and
hhhwhip.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hhhhhhwhooo RRR UUU???
And how is a raven like a writing desk, anyway?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just say that wOBA is OPS with slugging and OBP wieghed properly
That’s sorta the truth :)
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it ok to say
Woba?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't he a character in Star Wars?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what I was thinking
it sounded like a star wars character of some sort
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes it sound funnier
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is it said then?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weighted on based average
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll just say
Woba for short
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally say "woba"
O-P-S, E-R-A and whip.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked OPS just a week before
And I’d never ever seen a graph of WAR
but Woba’s probably my favorite stat
when it comes to hitting Woba’s where it’s at!
And that’s the way that I’m going to stay,
I like it even better than EqA, that’s my Woba
W-O-B-A Woba,
Wo wo wo wo Wobaaa
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good one!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHIP
has the same problems that ERA has, in that it’s defense-dependent. It seems useful at first, but only until you realise that it’s controlled by all the same things we’ve been trying to clean out of all our other stats.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it is nearly as flawed as...
ERA. An errant throw to first, that would have ended the inning gets followed by two singles a walk and a double – 0 earned runs (maybe-I still don’t fully understand the scoring on this) but the 4 baserunners still count against WHIP.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it AS flawed? No.
But still flawed. It’s the old Jeff Suppan argument all over again. In front of the Cardinal defense, his WHIP, along with all his other traditional statistics, would be better, simply because more plays were made behind him. Every single that gets by Rickie Weeks affects his WHIP, thus, the problem.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you'd just go with FIP?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the easiest, yes.
I wish things like tRA and whatnot weren’t so damned complicated; we’re finally getting to the point that we can measure and quantify all outcomes, but the resulting algorithm is so fucking dense that only an MIT graduate really gets how the whole thing works.
But really, just moving from defense-dependent to -independent is a quantum leap forward. Oh, boy.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"oh boy"
hehehe…I know more people got that, but I rec anyway.
by stlfan on Jun 4, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray!
I was hoping someone got it, at least.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy ziggy.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sure didn't
heh
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FIP is 90% there, and it's super easy to calculate
so yes
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can look at...
one stat and judge a pitcher. I probably look at WHIP for a quick feel of how good a pitcher is. Most of the time you can categorize pretty well with WHIP, IMO.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is my general feeling also
WHIP isn’t the end all stat but it is a good one for me to look at it. If a pitcher has a low WHIP than he is more than likely a good pitcher
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my new stat will be
FWHIP!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fwip just sounds cool
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fwwwwipppp
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a fwwwwwwip of 1.0000
Impressed?
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
VERY impressed
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should avoid using WHIP for two reasons
1) It credits pitchers with how many hits they allow and that is largely not under a pitchers control.
2) It treats a homer the same as a single, when it’s clear that a homer is much, much worse.
You might as well look at FIP. It’s a much better statistic for judging how good a pitcher is as it properly weighs all things that a pitcher can control.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I <3 FIP but “properly weighs all things that a pitcher can control” are pretty strong words :)
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well it's close
tRA is the best, but it’s a bitch to calculate
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tRA certainly seems to have a lot of quality input, but I still haven’t seen a showdown between it FIP. That’s the reason Fangraphs uses FIP for pitcher WAR:
“That doesn’t mean that we’re set in our ways and that these win values will never be improved upon. If and when a new metric like tRA is proven to be significantly more effective in valuing pitchers (and I’m hopeful that it will be, given more data exploration on the topic), we won’t be standing here as guardians of the infallibility of FIP”
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think tRA is statcorner exclusive
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't hard to calculate
It just takes awhile. I’m going to throw up a post at BtB soon using my own home brewed version of tRA.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I heard that tRA was more predictive or something?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's more involved
but not as statistically sound as FIP
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
COME ON man!
I was just getting used to WHIP!
Now you’ll say I should get started on something wFIP+ or something.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EqwFIP3*+
That’s “third order equivalent weighted fielding independent pitching plus”
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
>snort< i can’t believe you cited to “third order equivalent weighted fielding independent pitching plus.” that’s not even park-, season-, humidity-, wind-speed-, or stadium-attendance-adjusted.
n00b.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Psh
All those things have to do with baseball games played in a real stadium, “outside” where bears are. I am of course talking about Pure Baseball stats, which only applies to simulations. Get back to me when you’ve spent a little more time in your mother’s basement simulating real baseball, and not out there in the world watching baseball games!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have actually always wondered about statium attendance and home field advantage
It is harder to account for in baseball but in every other sport where the field is the same it could be weighted.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder about humidity and lighting effects
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder about boobs.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And dinosaurs!
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why limit yourself to just boobs?
women have all kinds of wonderful things for us gents to wonder about
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 4, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the other day
that the crowd at Busch seriously lacks the energy the 04-05 teams had at Busch and wondered if that really does have an effect on a game.
I know it can’t be scientifically proven, but would all outcomes of games be the same if they played in empty stadiums?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at other sports where teams have huge Home Loss splits
Like look at KU at basketball. They almost never lose at home but can be beaten on the road.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This should be an interesting discussion...
Depends on what I am judging them for.
For hitters, I usually use wOBA or EQA (even though I know it understates OBP). My latest fad is trying to understand BaseRuns better.
For defense, pick ’em. Some iteration of UZR probably.
Pitchers: I tend to like FIP, though I know it has its disadvantages. Its just easy to understand. K/9 for starters and WHIP is up there too. I tend to forget the league bias when looking at plain K rates, so league adjusted pitching stats are helpful.
For All-Star/MVP votes, I like wPA – shows what the player contributed to team success a little more clearly.
For HOF – Rally’s WAR or anything that justifiable rates Cardinals high.
Is that nerdy enough?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the problem with UZR is that we abuse it
We look at small samples too much and use it is to predict future events. I think it takes like two seasons worth of data to make any good reseasonable guess to future defensive events
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reseasonable reasonable
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
100 percent agree
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just want to make sure that
wPA is the same as WPA
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
say wPA three times fast and this guy appears
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fuck
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favourites
For hitters, OBP. Cuts right to the heart of things. How good are you at not making an out? There are plenty of others that are good, of course, but that gives me at least an idea of what sort of player I’m looking at.
For pitchers, I’m a sucker for the K/BB as well. FIP, of course, is the simplest stat to look at.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if you ground into a FC?
you get on base, but have made an out?
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fielder's choices
count as outs, as do errors. No problem there.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess they do.
I never really looked into OBP. Just assumed if you were standing on 1st 2nd or 3rd, after you batted, it went towards your OBP.
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Won/loss record...
batting average, and saves ALL THE WAY!!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 4, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot the three most important things
R, B, and I!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More specifically,
GW RBI
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That redundant
because RBI are what win games. Not clogging up the bases.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TEH RITE ANSER IS I DONT UZE STATS I JUST UZE MY EYZE.
IF YOU WACHED REAL BASEBAL GAYMES INSTED OF STAING IN UR MOMZ BAESEMET, U WOUDN’T NEED STOOPID STATZ.
I CAN TELL WHO IZ GOOD AN WHO ISNT JUST BY LOOKIN.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
RBIs!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that guy
is a baseball player.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have question.
How the he** is Albert supposed to hit with runners on base, if Colby keeps on hitting homeruns in front of him?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And now I see Flimtotheflam
used the exact same joke 3 posts above me. Oh well, I guess it is ok. I think this one is going to evolve into the newest “the Giants need a lefthanded 1st baseman” line anyway.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 4, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ABs all the way
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 4, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basic/Advanced:
Pitching: K/BB, FIP
Hitting: OBP, wOBA
Fielding: NOTHING, UZR
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would of started a fanpost if I knew this thead was so popular
Maybe I still will with some definitions of the most popular stats
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should just start a "statistical anaylsis thread"
that way anyone who has question can have them answered.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was one last year
I understood approximately 21% of it.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds good to me
I like philosophising about stats
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wOBA, BABIP, FIP
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like all the stats
even the old school ones
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tying the thread together
wouldn’t it have made more sense for the Braves to sign Jim Edmonds at $1 M this year than trade 3 prospects for Nate McLouth’s contract the next 3 years?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
probably
I was surprised that no one signed him anyway
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Jim Edmonds over Garret Anderson, yes
Dumb baseball move, IMO
Also, Frank Wren isn’t making any friends with some of Atlanta’s die-hard. First, he runs Smoltz outta town, now he drops Glavine.
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beyond the Box Score just reviewed the trade
Braves came out ahead by $12 million dollars over the life of the players
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meaning that Nate McLouth will be worth $12 M more
over the next 10 years or that his contract will cost less. Cause the second is a big fat ‘no duh!’.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worth more than $12M more in value over his contract
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm reading it and am I to assume they believe McLouth is a $15 M/year player
for the next 4 years of his contract?
They owe him $22 M for the rest of his contract. What is his total value over the next 4 years.
Contrasting that against the prospects that would be worth $22 M but likely would only cost $10 M total during arbitration years.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said I'm reading it
What I’m saying I would like to see is:
Nate McLouth value (in dollars) over next 4 years
Nate McLouth contract over next 4 years ($22 M)
Minor League players value over arbitration years
Minor League players cost over arbitration years (estimated)
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I'm understanding it is
that Nate McLouth is being paid $22 M for 4 years but will be worth $60 M over the same stretch. That is a net value of $38 M, not $ 32.
The minor league players only expect to be worth $20 M in value over their careers, but it doesn’t say what their expected cost would be over the lifetime of their careers or even during their arbitration years. Maybe that is inherent in the calculations he came up with the total value.
I’m guessing the $32 is prorated to remove part of this season.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the prospects arbitration is a non factor
It can’t be that much where it would really factor in. McLouth’s contract ends in 2012 or just around the time these prospects possibly would be reaching their first Arbitration.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is flat out amazing that
we already know exactly how much Nate McLouth is going to be worth over the next 4 years.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody give us a fucking job running a team already
LMAO
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i prefer win-win-win negotiations
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 4, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that anything like
alright-alright-alright negotiations? ’Cause those are my favourites.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's cooler than being cool?
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiels May?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
BURN!
Incineration! You are the insult master!
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice
just call ankiel the iceman
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ICE COLD!!!!
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Russ Springer ain't faring so well
WHIP of 2.02, ERA near 7
as a contrast, Motte has a WHIP of 1.06 and an ERA under 3
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That is beautiful...
but I hope Springer rebounds
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like he had a rough May
Cause I know he was doing excellent at the beginning of the season
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
I had him on two of my fantasy teams, he was doing so well that I didn’t bother to check up on him for a while. might explain my precipitous drop.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was lucky when he was here
and I, for one, didn’t think his skillset was likely to repeat with another great year this time round. He just stopped giving up HR on flyballs for two years, pretty much (although his K/BB improved a bit, he didn’t suddenly become Mariano Rivera overnight, after a mediocre career). I was glad we didn’t give him, like, $5m or something.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braden Looper, on the other hand...
wouldn’t have minded signing him again
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looper hasn't even been replacement level this year
ie Not as good as Puppy Kicker
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah
guess I was under the wrong impression.
yup, .275 babip and not a very good fwhip
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looper, Thompson, Pinero
are all really the same pitcher. I would just keep the cheapest one and buy a bat.
by DriverZn on Jun 4, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
superstition alert
I’m dropping Ankiel from my fantasy team, he will now start hitting
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2006 Cardinals on MLB Network right now...
Season recap/documentary/highlight reel thing…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 4, 2009 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Awesome. Question:
I have a 2006 WS highlight DVD, commentated by Billy Bob Thornton. Any reason why? Is he from StL?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know where he's from...
but I know he’s a huge Cardinals fan…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 4, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
CNNSI: Q&A w/ Billy Bob Thornton
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
clip
SI: Baseball is a big part of your fabric. How did you become a Cardinals fan? Thornton:The farm club for the Cardinals, the Arkansas Travelers, played in Little Rock, where I grew up. I saw a lot of people coming through there. Keith Hernandez. Jose Cruz. We were just all Cardinals fans because we didn’t have a our own major league team, so St. Louis was the closest one to us and our farm club was there. Everybody in Arkansas is a Cardinals fan.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome, thanks.
I especially liked the part talking about the Cardinals’ eyes and the Sox’ winning spirit.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I’m from Little Rock originally….most people are Cards fans there. Watching the late 80’s, early 90’s guys was amazing…Zeile, Gilkey, the one and only Geronimo Pena.
by eglasier on Jun 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
half my family lives in Arkansas
Billy Bob is actually from the town my grandparents live in, Malvern, 30 min south of Little Rock. i might find myself in the LR area soon if things don’t turn around here in ohio.
most are in fact Cards fans. but not all the cable companies have FSNMW which sucks.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 4, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn
wish I was at home watching that!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit I hope it replays.
I need to DVR it.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This season is starting to wear on me.
This team is too frustrating to watch this year, I’m tired of watching guys play positions they can’t handle. I’m tired of a billion relievers and MIFers. I’m tired of no rehab stints after going on the DL. I’m tired of seeing Colby and Ludwick Benched. I’m tired of hearing Holliday’s name.
Still, I believe somehow June will be a good month for the Cards.
by TheBirds on Jun 4, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just try to think of how awesome we'd be if things went how they're supposed to, dadgummit!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must admit I kinda feel the same
we’ve been tied or one game out of first for much of the last fortnight, and yet I don’t feel anywhere near as positive about this team as I did with ouor (inferior) team at about this time last year. Maybe I’m getting old…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, everyone, just to put it out there:
this is a really good thread. You want to get someone to join VEB, just point them toward this.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am curious how VEB compares to other SB Nation Blogs
It seems like every day we have 400 posts on the blog before the game thread even starts. The quality seems to be pretty good for the most part.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The FanPosts are usually excellent also
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly VEB is the best internet community I have ever been part of
I have been on the internet since my 9600 Baud modem suffering BBS’s
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh I remember when I upgraded to a 56K modem
My god it was fast. I was dominating at quake.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too remember those days
going onto BBS with Telex, looking for 256 color pr0n
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big fan of the eleventy billion trade proposals
but otherwise, I agree.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1 on that
Seriously people don’t even propose anything that hasn’t been talked to death. I like fanposts that at least bring something to the table or if you are going to talk about something that has already been discussed heavily. At least add some stats and additional info to localize the talks
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, those can be annoying
but Flim’s post, my post, my other post :), Felonious’ post, Giveml’s post are all well though out and generally add something new to the table.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
but I think a lot of these are people that just haven’t been here and aren’t sure how to get involved. And there’s not near as many of those here as there are at some of the other SBNation blogs that I look at every few days or so.
I would rather have eleventy billion trade proposals as long as they aren’t eleventy billion trade proposals about how we should go get Matt Holliday.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed & approve
i’m sick of the holliday trades. let. it. die.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 4, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You just know as soon as we stop talking about it
MO’s gonna make that trade and the shockwaves from the collective VEB faceplant will irreparably damage Busch Stadium’s foundation.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know trades are going to happen this season
I can almost guarantee it. I have been meaning to make a fan post of it but we have over 50+ guys that are going to be exposed to the Rule 5 draft with less than 10 spots open by next season.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After the viva's fanpost about roster management the other day
I’m working on the same type of thing. Want to combine resources?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Adam Dunn trade, however
I could live with
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
the trade proposals are rather pointless
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade talk is fine with me I guess, but I’ll be damned if I don’t see a prospect-for-dude trade every time I look which doesn’t consider any or all of the following:
- the potential cost savings of a controlled prospect (e.g. pay 400k, get 20M in performance)
- the fact that the acquisition still needs to be paid (it might be market rate or worse)
- for better or worse, they’ll be around for their contract length (e.g. a few months or 4+ years)
So…WALLACE FOR PEAVY??
by astrostl on Jun 4, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yesh
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By far the best online community I've been a part of
Very few trolls here that just flame for any ol’ reason, which is just fine by me.
Arguments backed up by evidence supporting them, statistical analysis, and just overall great knowledge about the game, it’s history, and the Cardinals in general.
Just wish that pesky lboros would show up a little more often around here. I miss his posts a lot, even though I think that DanUp does a great job.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish larry would even say hi more just in comments
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
We all know he’s reading because he does chime in occasionally. His work for the Maple Street deal was great this year though.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The post count here isn't the thing
it’s the quality.
BCB has 700 posts before 9am, esp. if, for instance, a rookie pitcher has a no hitter through seven, then the closer and the “OMG HE’s AWSUM” guy who everyone thinks SHOULD be a closer blows a 4 run lead (including walking in a run), then they lose in extra innings and I’m cheering the TV set.
But I digress.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh heh heh
You’re right, I hate the Cubs!
Wait… what were we talking about?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of the credit goes to you guys: The Moderators
You put up quality stuff every day we can comment on. But also you don’t really impose rules on the board. I went over to Lookout Landing and put up an OT: Topic in the main thread about Beltre. Than was scolded for talking about something other than the main thread topic.
I think things should just unfold and let OT things develop. It creates good board chemistry something that can’t really shown by stats. Now honestly though we seem to be blessed by the lack of complete idiots for the most part.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Original credit on that one goes to Larry.
He always took a remarkably hands-off approach to the blog, letting it take care of itself, unless something went really, really wrong. I don’t know about the other mods, but I’ve always tried to carry forward that laissez-faire attitude, rather than control what everyone is talking about.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are lucky we are Saint Louis Cardinals fan
Cause that is where a lot of comes from, imo. This town just loves baseball.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so larry is like the ayn rand of the intertubes?
the INVISIBLE HAND has made this thread great!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely resent that.
I am, in fact, an, idiot.
if you can’t trust a southern lawyer cooking a kosher meal in a dumpster,
well, then, the world has grown far too cynical
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 4, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But are you a COMPLETE idiot?
Regular idiots are encouraged around here. They have been letting me post for years.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 4, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
complete idiot
Needs to have a deep GIF library for every situation
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we need more JI
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Lookout Landing
He used to comment here once in a while and has a shit ton of Gifs.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still sneaks into threads at BtB. smart guy.
i like our visitors. sky and harry have good contributions.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should hang out at BtB more
Great place for general baseball discussion
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Jun 4, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No GIF's for me
I just do half ass Photo Chops to whore out for recs.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always liked how daily threads here are sort of a combination of
“topic(s) of the day” and “mostly but not entirely baseball-focused interweb hang-out”. It’s a fun place to waste (way too much) time during the day.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope it is just you guys
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he were to get his GED, would he have to wait for the draft?
Per MLBTR (too long for block?)
Bryce Harper, 16-Year-Old Phenom
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 4 at 10:15am CST]
Tom Verducci of SI.com introduces us to a 16-year-old so tantalizing multiple MLB scouting directors say he would be a top-five pick if eligible for this year’s draft. Bryce Harper, a high school sophomore, has drawn comparisons to Justin Upton, Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr.. The entire article’s worth reading, but here are some of the reasons Harper’s attracting so much attention:
He hit the longest home run in Tropicana Field history, at 502 feet.
He’s reportedly hit balls as far as 570 feet.
His throws have been clocked at 96 mph.
He’s fast enough to have scored from second on six wild pitches this year.
Scott Boras is one of Harper’s advisers, so look for big demands once he’s drafted. That won’t likely happen until 2011, but his parents would like Harper to be available in next year’s draft. It would be hard not to think highly of your skill if you were labeled the “LeBron James of baseball,” and Harper has no shortage of ambition.
He wants to reach the majors by the time he’s 18 or 19.
Among his goals: “to be in the Hall of Fame” and to “be considered the greatest baseball player of all time.”
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sidenote
That’s a good baseball name.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 4, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like
a soap-opera name.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 4, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man I bet that kid
is having a LOT more fun in high school than I did, if you know what I mean.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder if those balls were hit with an aluminum bat or wood?
by SGFCardinals on Jun 4, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there any truth to that old line..
That aluminum bats turn singles into doubles, but one can actually hit a HR farther with a solid wood bat?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know,
but it shouldn’t be true. The additional weight of the wood bat would help, but the lighter weight of the aluminum bat would allow for faster swing speeds, and the superior surface hardness of the bat in question should generate a higher coefficient of restitution.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs