Thursday miscellany
by chuckb on Jun 4, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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PrintWe may see the return of Mitch Boggs but, in looking at his AAA numbers, it’s not at all clear that he’ll be called up. It may be Danup’s favorite Blake Hawksworth or even Clayton Mortensen , both of whom are outpitching Boggs at Memphis. Hawksworth, in particular, has done a much better job of throwing strikes than Boggs and could get the call. Or they could decide to call up a hitter (they wouldn’t really get rid of the 8 man pen, would they?) and go w/ Thompson as the fill-in while Lohse heals. I don’t really see the point of keeping Thompson on the roster but, as long as he’s there, I suppose I’d rather have him take 3-4 starts while Lohse sits and have the extra hitter on the bench than leave him to rot for another 17 days in the pen while we watch Todd Wellemeyer pinch hit.
There’s been a lot of talk on the state of the third base position, and rightly so, but we mustn’t forget the "contributions" that the Cards’ outfielders have made to the current slump. Here are some of the peripheral numbers for the Cards’ outfielders during the month of May.
| BB% | K% | BA | OBP | SLG | wOBA | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Skip | 3.0 | 10.4 | .313 | .333 | .479 | .348 |
| Ludwick | 14.0 | 20.9 | .186 | .321 | .395 | .325 |
| Rasmus | 3.4 | 21.2 | .212 | .256 | .447 | .302 |
| Stavinoha | 2.3 | 9.3 | .256 | .267 | .419 | .298 |
| Duncan | 8.3 | 22.7 | .227 | .289 | .386 | .296 |
| Robinson | 0.0 | 8.0 | .240 | .231 | .280 | .230 |
| Ankiel | 5.0 | 36.8 | .105 | .190 | .158 | .172 |
Quite clearly, Ankiel’s numbers are putrid. His OPS is lower than 5 of the 7’s slugging %. Horrendous doesn’t begin to describe it. Ludwick’s numbers look worse than they should, primarily b/c he was hurt by a ridiculous .161 BABIP. In fact, it’s reasonable to argue that Ludwick had the best month of the 7 despite his .186 batting average. Aside from those particular numbers, what stands out? To me, it’s clearly the (what’s the most awful word for awful?) atrocious (?) walk rates of everyone except Ludwick. Even Rasmus, whose walk rate was a solid 13.2% in April, saw his sink by nearly 10%. At least he managed to have the highest slugging percentage of the group, thus making his month appear to be relatively strong – at least compared to Duncan and Ankiel.
So what was different in Rasmus’ approach in April and May? The big difference, which should come as no surprise to anyone, is that Rasmus swung at many more pitches outside the strike zone in May than in April. In April, he swung at just 16.2% of the pitches he saw outside the zone. In May, that percentage increased by nearly 10% to 25.7%. He swung at more pitches overall, and swung and missed more frequently in May. Clearly, when he made contact, he made much better contact in May than April, but he needs to regain his patience at the plate. The skeptics among us (Al, I’m looking at you) would say that Rasmus is doing too much swinging for the fences. I actually caught him channeling Cecil Cooper ("home runs are rally killers!") the other day when I heard him complain that Rasmus was hitting too many home runs. Hey Al, if he doesn’t hit ‘em, who will?
It hasn’t been Duncan. It hasn’t been Ankiel and Ludwick spent half the month on the DL. Now, I expect Ludwick to improve and I expect Rasmus to improve. Will Duncan regain his power stroke this year? I’m not so sure. Ankiel surely can’t get any worse. Hopefully he can get straightened out (for his sake as much as the team’s) and become at least a quasi-productive player for the team. The other thing to remember is that, while Rasmus is a plus defensive player, neither Duncan nor Ankiel help the team much defensively. If they’re not hitting, they’re not really productive at all. The point is that we can’t forget the outfield’s offensive ineptitude when discussing the team’s fecklessness at the plate. It’s not just about the hot corner.
Please tell me that I imagined Brendan Ryan getting thrown out trying to steal third down 3 runs in the bottom of the 7th. That was a hallucination, right? A bad dream? That didn’t really happen, did it?
There’s a good post from Eric Seidman over at fangraphs on Jim Edmonds’ case for the HOF. It’s definitely worth a read. I realize some Cards’ fans are pissed that he went and played for the Cubs when he could’ve chosen retirement and some are pissed about that stupid feud that Tony started last year, but Jimmy was a great ballplayer for the bulk of the 8 seasons he spent w/ the birds on the bat. Is he worthy of the Hall? I’m not sure. My heart says "yes" but my head says he’s probably just not quite good enough.
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I have come to similar conclusions yesterday that I put up in my fanpost
Most notably about Ankiel. He has no value for this team currently. He is not even close to replacement level as a corner outfielder. Like you said with Colby at least he has defense to fall back onto. A big problem of Colby’s is that he is hitting lefties poorly. Hopefully if his minor league numbers are any indication it is just a fluke. (.275/.371/.455/.826 in Minor’s vs Lefties)
I am getting close to my breaking point of no return with Ankiel. He is currently not adding anything to the team but actually taking away wins.
Maybe we should just pray for Mather’s health to return
Number since he has come off the DL
19 AB’s 8 H’s 2 2B’s 1 HR 5 RBI’s 1 BB 4 SO
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Colby's had a horrible BABIP vs lefties
in his tiny sample. I don’t think his approach is that bad against them (he doesn’t seem to have the serious endemic problems vs LHP that, say, Dunc or Ankiel have – in Dunc’s case, he can’t lay off any slider/breaking ball down and away from a southpaw).
Ankiel’s been a streaky hitter his whole career. He’s also been hurt, badly, this year, and probably came back onto the roster too soon. I’m going to give him another month before I start throwing him under a bus. He’s still been above replacement level this year (by a whole 0.1 runs, woohoo!) according to fangraphs, and I think his glove is a +ve in a corner spot. Most of his peripherals are up around his career numbers, he’s just not hitting with any power. I’m going to believe that that’s a correctable flaw. Of course, it could just be that pitchers have a more refined approach to him this year following the observation that he’s mostly guessing up there (and has been all of his career) and can’t lay off high fastballs or good breaking stuff.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Ankiel had a couple...
of hard hit balls last night. He smoked a one-hopper at Phillips, and then hit that double in the 9th. Maybe I’m reaching, but I found some reassurance in those two at-bats.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
But doesn't he typically...
have a nice at-bat when we’re down by 8 runs and the at-bat is low-leverage?
Can he actually have a good at-bat in a 2-2 game with the game on the line?
I'm not real big on the...
“clutch” factor. Though Ankiel has a history that suggest he doesn’t handle pressure well. The shot to Phillips was while the game was still close, and it was definitely blistered.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
that one-hopper to Phillips was a missile
I think I saw a small super nova when his glove absorbed the blow and knocked his body back.
That out, Pujol’s line drive that was caught by the warning track, and Ludwick’s missile that almost got Albert doubled off, were some of the hardest hit outs I’ve ever seen. They weren’t even your garden variety line drives to 3rd, just heat seaking missiles.
There seemed to be other well struck balls throughout the night that just weren’t falling as well. I don’t know if those falling for hits would have won the game, but it might have at least made it a game.
Ludwick
It seems he has tattooed quite a few balls since coming off the DL…right at fielders. He drilled a couple opposite field shots earlier in the series vs. Cincy. This, of course, made me openly mutter “What?!” when Al started criticizing Ludwick for not taking a rehab stint to get his timing down. Ludwick has tattooed the ball right at defenders on numerous occasions since coming back.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Al wouldn't understand the concept of BABIP
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He would take the time to learn
if someone told him it was another possible way to rip on Rasmus
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
He complitmented Ryan's play
and it sounded like he really had to force it. I bet he was jumping for joy when Ryan got thrown out at 3B.
I'm going to probably say no to Jimmy Baseball in the HOF
my all-time favourite Cardinal. I just can’t help but feel that he wasn’t a real monster for quite long enough.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
On the subject of Jimmy Baseball and the HOF,
chuckb summed up my feelings as well – my heart says “yes”, but my head isn’t quite so sure.
I'd like to have seen him hit 20-25...
more homeruns in RF for somebody this year to get his total up over 400. If he could have somehow managed 120 hits he’d have crossed the 2,000 mark there. I know that both of those fall short of the “magic” numbers, but coupled with his reign as the best centerfielder in baseball for a handful of years they could very well be enough. It would take the arguement from “he didn’t even get ____ hits/HR’s” to “he had ____ hits/HR’s while playing excellent defense at a premium position.”
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I would like to have seen him
continue to play CF and hit those 20 bombs this year — then all of his homers would have come as a centerfielder, and he would have been more than good enough defensively to handle the assignment. With some of the starting CF’s in the National League this year, I can’t believer that nobody has given him a shot to play.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I think you're right...
I just thought I might have a tough enough time making my case for 20+HR’s and 120+hits that I didn’t want to argue over whether he can still play center. You take that one, and I’ll handle the offensive side.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I know Tony/Edmonds have burnt some bridges
but at the moment, heck, I can’t believe WE couldn’t find a role for him, despite his lefty-ness, at least off the bench…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Also seems odd the Cubs spent all that money on Bradley
I can’t see him being that much better than Edmonds would’ve been, this year.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
considering how well Jimmy is thought of in the clubhouse, he’s been way worse, and for more money than what Jimmy would have cost them. Plus, had they not wanted Bradley, they’d still have Derosa and might have even held on to Jason Marquis, who apparently needs contract year motivation to turn into Mr. Hyde.
Jim Hendry, your 2008 GM of the Year!!!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Bradley has started heating up a little
and I’m sure his bat will come around. Still, picking up ANOTHER asshole to add to Zambrano, Soriano et al makes it that much easier to root against them…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about Bradley, but
they DFA’ed the gatordate machine
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i don't think the cubs need to worry though.
i’m sure he’ll be healthy for the next 30 months.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
considering how well Jimmy is thought of in the clubhouse, he’s been way worse
They’re not the same player offensively/defensively/positionally, but assuming they are – if you’re the GM how much would the difference between your perception of Jed and Bradley’s respective clubhouse presences be worth to you per year?
14 Grits...
and maybe a pair of JeterEyes. Only 2 real dollars though.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Probably
at least the couple of million more that Bradley is making this year.
With respect to Jim Leyland, I think that clubhouse cancers DO effect how ballclubs deal with losing streaks and struggles on the field, especially when you have too many knuckleheads in your clubhouse.
I can think of a more than few teams that have had more talent than the Cardinals the last couple of years and haven’t won as much. True, they haven’t had Pujols, but I think you have to credit Pujols, Yadi, and WW for keeping things focused on the positive in the locker room and not dwelling on negative things, undressing umpires, and assaulting Gatorade machines. You would never see Albert or Yadi destroy a Gatorade machine or go after an umpire so hard they blow out a knee. They are focused on the business at hand each and every day and put their best effort out on the field every night. Other players respect that and in turn follow their lead. I think that LaRussa should get credit for some of this, but that he gets credit for way too much of it in the grand scheme of things.
The Cubs have a couple of good clubhouse guys on the team. Ryan Dempster has always been lauded as one, and so has Derrek Lee. But you can’t overcome 2 or 3 knuckleheads like Big Z, Bradley, and Soriano, especially when your manager has been known to throw temper tantrums as well, even though he’s by all accounts a great baseball man.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I don't know
Yadi taking his catching gear off and leaving it an ump’s feet last year after getting tossed was priceless.
That's true, but all that was for a purpose
He was backing up his pitcher, who was getting miserably squeezed in that game, and Yadi said later that that umpire in particular really squeezed the zone against the Cardinals.
If Zambrano could sit down and give me a reasonable explanation for destroying that Gatorade machine, I’d be glad to apologize, I just don’t think that he can.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I'm not disagreeing
I don’t think there is much room for that kind of attitude in the game.
Sometimes I almost wish someone would show a little fire. When Nick Stavinoha is our biggest non-Albert threat in the lineup someone needs to fire these guys up.
Also, just because it’s fun to watch, here’s the link.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=2689415
Did he get suspended for that? I can’t even remember now.
I was curious, so I looked it up - he was fined but not suspended
Link
That was pretty entertaining to watch.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 4, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh this one is way more entertaining and funny
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
that’s awesome. I really love dempster now, even with that stupid glove flick…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That was awesome,
I had forgotten all about that. I especially liked how Yadi untucked his shirt as he walked back to the dugout. Not only f*** you to the umpire, but to the Brewers as well.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
indeed
fourstick:
I think you have to credit Pujols, Yadi, and WW for keeping things focused on the positive
I note that the biggest blowups out of the Cards are always about whether the game is being played right. Start disrespecting the game, and… you won’t like ‘em when they’re angry.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
On a kinda digression
I do feel, despite being much more in the stathead camp than a baseball traditionalist, that we’ve perhaps gone too far the other way in terms of UNDER-valuing things like team chemistry, and the effect of trouble-makers or unhappy players, on the performance of baseball teams. Just from an entirely subjective point of view, it has to have some effect.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I can agree with that
Just think of your own work environment. If it is overly negative work place work quality will go down. If you don’t dread going to work and enjoy your co workers than you will most likely perform better.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t doubt that there’s a performance difference between chewing gum and chewing tobacco, but if something is significant I think it should be possible to measure. Take clubhouse presence, for example: if a bad apple goes from one team to another, his original team “should” improve while the new one suffers.
Careful, now.
Does the name Milton Bradley mean anything to you?
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your assessment...
But its really hard to measure. The old team would have to replace the player with a comparable talent. How often does that happen considering the cases we usually talk about are big names? Too many lurking variables to make a judgment, IMO.
I tend to think chemistry is overrated (think of articles post WS claiming teams “came together”), but its effects probably aren’t negligible. I just don’t know how to measure it.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
But its really hard to measure. The old team would have to replace the player with a comparable talent.
Why? You can look at individual or team performance for everyone but them, or the person they’re replacing; if the hypothesis is that they’re affecting others’ performance, looking at just the “others” will result in less dilution. Barry Bonds and his happy-go-lucky identically-performing twin are a constant, and could be safely eliminated from the equation as an individual component.
Because...
The person you replace the “cancer” with could have an impact as well, not to mention the effects of aging, injury, sample size and whatever else the team has once the “cancer” is gone (or added). You are right though the old team would have to replace the player with a comparable talent. isn’t exactly right – but I just think there are too many things that change from year to year team to team to be able to correctly attribute causality.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Agreed on all the variables, but I think it’s not unfair to assume that if a bad-attitude player is alleged to have a big negative influence and they’re replaced with a good-attitude player, a difference should be seen. Once someone even gets that far we can sweat the details.
No, I don't think that's ever going to be possible
too many variables, and the sample sizes involved would likely be pretty small as well. It’s just not possible to do any sort of vaguely scientific comparison on such a nebulous factor.
If you just look at “how good player X is when player Y is/isn’t in his team” you could be looking at random fluctuations (i.e. sample size issues), an injury, a change in approach, the fact his dog’s just died, basically dozens of factors. The whole coincidence/causality thing again – it’d be absolutely impossible to link the two things together.
Same thing applies on a team-wide level; teams go on winning or losing streaks all the time, even with the same set of personnel. How on earth can we link one event (behaviour of a player/morale behind the scenes) with their performance, with any sort of accuracy? Absolutely no way.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Stats and Sabermetrics have a place in the game
but to say that only measurable factors affect the game is just as naive as somebody saying that all of your favorite numbers mean about as much as a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on
That sounds like a very meaningful painting to me.
Just like this one.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh my god.
How did you find that?
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
My little sister told me about that artist.
He is awesome. I always forget his name though. I love the combination of excellent classical realism skills and ridiculous tongue-in-cheek popart.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Also
the description is amazing and dispels any fear about the artist’s level of seriousness. Rockefeller, Hearst, and Morgan? And he doesn’t even mention the T-Rex just standing there!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
It's like something
from Brock Sampson’s dreams.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t doubt that there’s a performance difference between chewing gum and chewing tobacco, but if something is significant I think it should be possible to measure. Take clubhouse presence, for example: if a bad apple goes from one team to another, his original team "should" improve while the new one suffers.
I count 1 “that”
you didn’t say it directly, but what other conclusion am I supposed to come to after reading your opinion?
I conceded – as you quote – that a player chewing gum compared to tobacco could have an impact on baseball performance. What more can I say?
You’re throwing “significant” out of the sentence, and that’s a huge adjective. Could shoes make a difference? Yes. High-carb lunches? Yep. But if I ever tell you something is a BIG DEAL and I can’t show you, then I don’t expect you to believe me.
God is a big deal and you can't show him to me.
Whether you believe in him or not, religion has accounted for more wars as well as more selfless acts than any single factor in history.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I'm not sure if I hate or love this argument.
So that makes it a good post.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
“Selfless acts” are gonna be a hard lookup, but war isn’t – just start cracking the history books. Whether or not God exists, if religion is the cited cause then there you go: proof.
NOPE.
You proved religion exists, but not God.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
So? The point wasn’t proving God, it was correlating cause and effect: religion = wars. Same thing as correlating cause and effect with, say, clubhouse presence except there’s nothing of substance on the right side of the equals sign.
OK.
If you work with a guy that you really don’t care about one way or the other, how likely are you to help him out if he needs it? I think that can be one of the biggest benefits of clubhouse harmony. Didn’t Carp identify AW’s arm-slot problem and help him run off a subsequent string of shut-down starts? If there were no chemistry between AW and Carp, then Carp would care less about AW’s arm slot and just let him throw till his arm fell off.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Great example with Waino and Carp! It can be shown, though: Wainwright arm slot & performance both before & after. It was a big deal, it was all over the press, and I would also think that similar observation-based turnarounds would be similarly vaunted. The workplace example makes a lot of sense in the workplace, but I think offices rely WAY more on teamwork than baseball teams. I consider it a largely individual sport, played on teams.
does this mean God = WAR
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Judging by his WAR numbers,
He’s a HOF for sure.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Similar to Chuck Norris's
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
How well would you play....
if your girlfriend dumped you the night before. How well would you play if you have discovered alcoholism?
OTOH, how well would you play if somebody taught you a new pitch that does some devastating things coming out of your hand? OR, how well would you play if you changed your swing and added 5 mph of bathead speed? Granted, statistics would eventually catch up and measure the difference, but they just don’t tell the whole story when it comes to prediction.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Granted, statistics would eventually catch up and measure the difference, but they just don’t tell the whole story when it comes to prediction.
aaaaand I didn’t say that they do.
Maybe Jimmy didn't hit an key offense markers but he has a lot of Gold Gloves.
Ozzie got in because of his glove more than his offense. Couldn’t Jimmy do the same?
How can your last name be baseball and your not in the HOF?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
Easy, have your first name be Donnie or Jimmy
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
A couple relevant links
Historical WAR (per Rally) and a CF analysis at BBS. He’d probably have my vote.
Historical WAR
I plotted it in the fanshots compared to other hall of fame players.
by JBrew on Jun 4, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Awesome stuff..
Question: is that against the average HOF batter? Did BtB give position by position HOF breakdowns? It would be interesting to see how he stacks up to the rest.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Yeah
its the average and “replacement” HOF batter, with the note of since 1955. The Historical WAR database only goes back that far so it was all there was. I’m not attached to the replacement line, but decided to include it.
When I first made the average HOF plot, I had intentions of splitting for each position but as it stands there are only 38 players total. I didn’t really want to split it down to only a few players at each position but might look at that again.
Three runs will be enough for Carp tonight
with this putrid offense, we’re still a .500 club.
With an offense (see April), we’re NL champs.
Your choice, Mo.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
good call
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Jun 5, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Looks like Todd is up and Lohse to the DL according to FR
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
YAY! Todd!
I find it wierd we’re burning a 40-man position (I don’t think he needed to be protected this off-season, or am I wrong?) on Todd when we’ve seemingly not called up a Craig/Wallace-type bat at some point in the last month (presumably partly due to 40-man issues). But still. I like Todd a lot. I think he’s potentially an actually useful long man (i.e. when Thompson/Welly/Pinata can’t get out of the 4th/5th inning, Todd, with his starter’s pedigree and, so far in AAA, closer’s stuff, might be an above-replacement level bridge to the 7th/8th/9th).
That said, STILL 8 f’ing pitchers in the pen. It’s more defensible when one of your starters is Thompson and the 8th bullpen guy (Todd) might actually see some action, and be above replacement level, though. I still don’t like it but I think, at least in the short term, it’s not terrible.
Todd’s FIP from the pen this year in AAA has been Motte-esque. Our bullpen could be pretty awesome next year, and for less than $5m…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Todd
I too am looking forward to seeing him pitch in StL (assuming he will).
But, even with Lohse’s DL, Welley’s struggles, etc., I’m still not terribly concerned about the pitching.
I’m more interested in if/how Lohse’s injury will impact the search for more O
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point
Our bullpen could be pretty awesome next year, and for less than $5m…
Which is less than we’d be paying this guy right now for his incredibly mediocre season so far.
I continue to be amazed at how that team can win while overpaying so many guys by wide margins.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Yeah
next year by the looks of it:
Perez – $0.5m
Motte – $0.5m
KMac – $0.5m
Todd – $0.5m
Boyer – not sure what he’s making, I think he’ll be in arb? If so, probably not a lot over the minimum…
Reyes – $1.5m
random other LOOGY/miller option/manning/garcia – probably league minimum-ish
Total is ~ $5m, and, frankly, if we use Reyes exclusively vs lefties, Boyer mainly vs righties (when he’s not mopping up, or gets converted to a starter) and get a reasonable 2nd LOOGY, I’d say that could well be one of the better pens in MLB, certainly in the top half.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
What would it take to re-sign Franklin?
That man really deserves his due after the great start he has had. He is as lights-out as anyone in baseball this year.
I have always liked the guy, and apparently he really loves the closer role. If we could get him for another year at $5 million or so, I would be just fine with that. I know some of the statheads around here might kill me, but I really think a bit of veteran leadership might keep all the youngsters in the pen from running too wild.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I've never minded franklin that much
but I think $5m is way too much to pay for a guy who might not be that good in the pen. He’s had (including 2009) two good years plus one bad year in St Louis, and has been poor before that. However, there does seem to be some suggestion that his 2009 improvement is a “real” sign of a change in skillset (i.e. adding the cut FB and cutting out some of his crappier pitches from last year’s box of tricks), and that, maybe like Springer, he’s having a bit of a late-career effective period in StL.
I’d take him back on a cheaper contract but I’m not so sure we need him, and $5m seems too much when we let a better pitcher (Springer) walk for less this year.
I do agree to some extent that an older player in the pen isn’t a bad idea, although by next year KMac will have 2 full years of MLB experience… I’d probably rather look at someone else of similar experience but better track record if it’s going to cost $5m; there’s always effective arms out there, even late into spring training.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Josh Kinney
could replace Franklin next year for the league minimum and you didn’t include him above. I’d rather take that $5M and invest it in the rotation by adding another #2 starter to the mix via trade or free agency. Obviously $5M won’t do it probably, but if you add that to another $7M or so that will be coming off the books, you could conceivably sign a John Lackey to a three year deal depending on the market. That would be a lot better investment than paying $5M to Franklin, imo.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
He he
see below re:Kinney. I’m generally of the opinion that if you’re gonna pay $5m+ to a reliever, he’d better be an elite one. Not sure Franklin falls into that category…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
sometimes you don’t end up getting what you pay for either, referencing my link above.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
That's true of any FA player though
not especially relievers, AFAIK. I think Fuentes will eventually be a good closer in LA, mind you. I just don’t think he was worth the money they (or we) offered.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Franklin has $2.75M club option for 2010
my guess is they pick it up, and one of our righties listed above is traded at some point this year.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
if his success continues
that’s probably closer to a fair price for the club. I’d probably pick that up.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
buyout of .25M so really, it's 2.5M
so half of the aforementioned amounts.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
no doubt
like somebody said, having a veteren (I’m sorry, but Kmac won’t be a veteren yet) in the bullpen helps more than numbers will show. Relieving is just as much mental as it is physical, and somebody like Franklin can go a long way in stabilizing young relievers.
at least pay his beard league minimum
Wow, I was too lazy to look up Franklinstein's contract status
that club option should be a no-brainer if he continues his performance.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I think the team should offer...
league minimum right now to get rid of his chin hair! It’s some of the worst I’ve seen on a pro athelete.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Except supposedly...
Sampson looked good…at least Delilah (sp?) thought so.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I'm curious.
Are you basing that on anything, or just what we always hear from old-time baseball people? I promise I’m not trying to be snide; I’m honestly curious if there’s any sort of measurable effect you’re aware of, or just the standard “veteran presence” chestnut.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
just chestnut
and having been in the situation. Sometimes, being a young pitcher, it can be more helpful to hear things from another player, as opposed to from a coach. There are intangible aspects to this game that have no measurable effect. I think I’ve seen people on here talking about some sort of “clutch hitting” calculation, but don’t know enough about sabermetrics to know where it comes from, or if there is one for pitching. I’m not trying to be snide, either, but sometimes it does seem like people forget about the human element of the game.
Human?
Tell that to la maquina, and prepared to be eliminated.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
You mean HUMANS play this game?
I thought the box scores were just simulated by the PECOTA computer…. ;-)
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure the history of baseball was just for the purpose of creating raw data for PECOTA
Back in the late 1800’s some smart people realized eventually, maybe after 100 years, we’d have powerful calculating machines and could finally simulate baseball instead of actually having people play it. In the mean time, they decided it would be best to collect some in vivo stuff for baseline purposes, etc.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
people look up to others with more experience
that effect is unquantifiable
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Imagine yourself at age 22-25, you’re dragging in a half million dollars or so every year. You have NO good examples to follow. I can see how that can easily become an inmates-running-the-prison scenario.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I like the idea also of a verteran guy in the bullpen
Bullpen guys are like a whole separate part of the team. Think about they don’t even sit with the team during the game. Somebody has to teach these kids how to give a post game interview
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Franklin's Option
We have a club option of $2.75MM, I believe, for next season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Also....
I forgot Kinney. Add one more potentially good righty (who could maybe do the Springer “ROOGY” routine), who I think could come back and be effective even this year…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Linky
RB (you must start reading his riverfront times column daily) had a link to Todd’s home town paper:
http://www.kilgorenewsherald.com/news/2009/0603/Sports/027.html
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Mather
Does anyone think the Cards will forgo the trade market for now and call up Mather to have a go at 3rd?
The reason I ask is that although I believe Mo was serious about making a deal to fill 3rd, I’m guessing Lohse’s situation puts a crimp in that plan.
I don't see why a SP going down with a seemingly temporary injury changes anything about our third base/outfield hitting woes
I’d like to see Mather up at some point, IF he starts hitting again, to platoon with Skip Schumaker in LF. Keep Ank and possibly Duncan on board as 4th/5th OFers/pinch-hitting options/starters if either gets hot again, have Schu as backup 2B, Ryan starting at SS, Thurston starting at 2B vs righties, Barden starting at 2B vs lefties and backing up the SS role, and DeRosa/Beltre/Atkins/whoever starting at 3B. And one less frigging pitcher in the bullpen…
If there’s any way at all that SF will trade Matt Cain for something that doesn’t cripple our farm system (I’d let Wallace and maybe even Jones go, in the right deal) I’d like to get him, too, but that’s not really related to Lohse getting hurt.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I was assuming that Mo
would’ve used pitching to get a 3rd sacker. But, I could very well be wrong about that.
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the likely guys to trade for 3B would be RP or AAA starters
I guess Boggs might’ve been on the table, but with our lack of SP depth, maybe not.
Looks like Cleveland are asking for Motte/Perez for DeRo (though we could possibly get by with a Salas/Todd type, or maybe Reifer + a starter). I reckon the other teams who could give us a 3B are mostly looking for pitching (Seattle, Colorado). So you’re probably right, but we have enough C-level pitching depth in the minors to get away with keeping Boggs I’d have thought.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, I am totally fine with Motte/Perez for DeRosa.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I'm not...
I just don’t think he’s that big of an upgrade to be giving away an effective reliever who may have closer stuff who is already helping your team. I’d be fine with giving up someone like Reifer, Salas, or Kinney, but not Motte or Perez.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
agreed fourstick
if we are going to package one of those two off in a deal for a rental player, I’d rather go with someone who has a higher potential ceiling, has a better chance of returning the draft pick(s) of top tier FAs, and one that could really impact our team in the Cleanup/5 hole.
Yes, I’m talking about this guy.
Our outfield production is atrocious, as is our lefty splits. personally, he’s who I want, and I’d rather let Thurston/Barden and or a Memphis call-up (Mather-starting to heat up, Wallace, Freese) play the hot-corner.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but there is no way we get Holliday for Perez or Motte.
While I do agree that Perez is quite a bounty for DeRosa, he is certainly a Type B free agent and marginally a Type A, so we wouldn’t just be trading for DeRosa. We would be trading for DeRosa and a draft pick or two. Also, we would be trading from a real position of strength (RH relief).
I don’t think our bullpen performance would suffer as a whole if we were to replace Motte or Perez with Todd.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I didn't allude that Motte or Perez would be enough
but simply stated that if one of those two were to be involved in a trade, I’d want reciprocal “ceilings” coming back. I do understand that Beane would need something ‘else’ than one of those two, fwiw.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't have any desire to acquire Holiday...
our OF hitting will come around. Ludwick IS a .900 OPS guy IMO, Duncan and Ankiel should return to their .850 OPS status and Rasmus will gradually make his way up to .800 OPS. Holiday is currently at .804, though he’ll probably finish better than that. The fact that he’s not much better than any of our first four options IMO, and that he will cost another $8M or so this year + significant talent to acquire I don’t think he offers enough in return…draft picks or no. If Mather is healthy again he may be a better hitter and defender than Holiday AND be able to fill in at third.
Bottom line I think Holiday is a product of Coors field and while he’s an above average corner OFer he’s not the elite hitter he’s been in the past.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I don't think Dunc and Ank are necessarily true-talent .850 OPS guys.
maybe dunc, at a push.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
You may be right...
but Ank had a .849 OPS coming into this season, and that included some prolonged slumps last year, and Duncan had a .884 OPS prior to last season. Both are missing their power strokes right now, and Ank’s may be because pitchers have adjusted to him, but I think they both have multiple years at .850 OPS’s in their future.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
and coming into this season,
Matt Holiday is a CAREER .949 OPS with 3 silver slugger awards…‘Coors effect’ be damned, this online community is always very wary of small sample sizes. I for one feel basing two months of 2009 as indicators of what he will do for the remainder of this year is a bit ridiculous.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Holliday career home/away splits:
Home: .350/.418/.631/1.049
Away: .281/.350/.456/.805
Both samples are >1500 PAs, so I don’t think you can damn the Coors effect.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Don't most good hitters
outside of those who play at Petco, have better numbers at home?
his ((away X 2) + home)) / 3 = .304/.373/.514/.880
I don’t know why I did this, but even if it means nothing, I feel like i have created something
Well, picking a few of my favorite hitters:
Albert:
H: .338/.434/.628/1.062 (holy sht)
A: .332/.420/.624/1.044 (holy sht)
Arod:
H: .313/.394/.595/.989
A: .298/.384/.561/.945
Miggy
H: .316/.389/.549/.938
A: .307/.376/.535/.912
Not saying my 3 cherry-picked sample is representative, but their numbers are slightly lower away, nothing like the “BA at home = OBP on the road” type disparity for Holliday. Can’t imagine discrepancy like his is anywhere near normal for someone that doesn’t play in a park with a huge (or tiny) park factor.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Yes...
But they aren’t 200 points of OPS better at home, that would be ridiculous. His slugging is nearly .200 points better at Coors than on the road. There’s something to be said for the Coors effect, even after the humidor.
Also, his away line from above is nearly exactly what he’s hitting this year. Coincidence? Probably, given the small sample size from this year. But a truly alarming one for anyone in a non-hitters park that wants to deal for him.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Oakland is a very pitcher friendly park
big OF, lots of foul territory, somewhat dead air.
Here you go..included an explanation
Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road.
A rate higher than 1.000 favors the hitter. Below 1.000 favors the pitcher.
PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))
Oakland: 0.868
Busch III: 0.937
Coors: 1.401
2009 data only.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
so...
0.937-0.868 = 0.069
1.069 X his current line: (avg/obp/slg/ops/ops+)
.290/.392/.467/.859/125
by STLRegalia on Jun 4, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
looks good to me.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That's an extremely simplistic calculation...
I like it, but if that’s the case his OPS in Oakland would be about .470 or so. You also aren’t adjusting for changing leagues, which makes a big difference as well.
It’s not nearly that low. I would guess that if he’s true to his splits he would hit a little bit better than he’s hitting in Oakland this season if he were traded to St. Louis.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
he would hit a little bit better than he’s hitting in Oakland this season if he were traded to St. Louis.
that’s the point I was trying to get accross by manipulating the numbers. .859 OPS sounds good right about now, with room for improvement
Ok...
but let’s look at marginal upgrades for a minute.
I think we can get someone like Matt Cain for the same package that we’re going to have to give up to get Matt Holliday. He represents a much larger marginal upgrade to the rotation than Holliday does to the offense. We also get to keep him much longer than one year.
I also think we could find a third baseman that could help us more than Holliday’s marginal upgrade in LF.
I think we could upgrade at second base, moving Skippy back to LF where he belongs, for about what it would cost to get Matt Holliday.
See what I mean? A 3 WAR player upgrading a 2 WAR position is worth 1 WAR more, but a 3 WAR player upgrading a replacement level player, and we have a few of those starting right now, is worth a full 3 wins. I would rather go after that guy.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I didn't say I was right...
but I do believe both parts to be true. I don’t think Holliday is measurably better than any of our top four outfielders (maybe five is Mather is healthy), and we don’t have to give up our best prospect and 2-3 other decent prospects while paying $8-9 million for those five.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Holliday
is better than all our OF, with the possible exception of Ludwick. I still hate the idea of trading for him, though.
He’s unquestionably measurably better than Ankiel and Duncan, at the very least.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced...
his barely over .800 OPS away from Coors Field leaves me quite skeptical till he proves he’s a .850 OPS hitter elsewhere. He is probably a better hitter than Ankiel (mainly due to OBP), and fielder than Duncan, but he’s not significantly/measurably IMO than either of them.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Well
as mentioned above, most hitters OPS ~.050 less away from home than they do at home. So if we assume a park-neutral road environment for Holliday’s career (not true as he’s spent a lot of it in LA, SF and San Diego, all very good pitchers’ parks), his “true” OPS might be in the .850 region.
Rick’s career OPS is .793 (which over-rates him as his OBP is low; his wOBA, .341 is barely above league average) and he’s fallen off the face of the earth as a hitter this year (and the end of last). Ank is, per UZR, a below average fielder (to the tune of 7 runs/season) in the OF, although most of that’s in CF (he is a -ve in the corners too, but in a small sample size), so he could be average or even slightly above as a LF or RF, but, so far, he’s a below average fielder.
Dunc’s career OPS is .830, pretty solid, with a .357 wOBA. However, he gives all that back in the field, as he’s 8 or 9 runs below average in either corner spot over a decent sample size (and pretty terrible to watch, too).
Holliday, then, is a much better hitter than either in his career, and a slightly better hitter than either if we allow for the “Coors effect” by taking his road OPS and giving it a small bump due to the fact that players routinely hit worse on the road. He’s also an above-average fielder (worth 8 runs/season more than the average LF), making him a better gloveman (so far) than either Ankiel or Duncan. So, he’s a better hitter and a better fielder, as per the numbers.
Even if we use the (largely unfair) method of assuming his career road OPS will be what he’ll manage outside of Coors, he’s a slightly better hitter than Ankiel, and a slightly worse hitter than Dunc, but he’s already nearly 2 wins better than Duncan in the field, more than making up the hitting difference.
So yeah, Holliday’s way better than them, even in the most pessimistic review of his talents.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Betting on
“multiple years at .850 OPS” for Ankiel would be, I think, a great way to lose a lot of money.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 4, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
It all depends on...
whether his slump has been due to injury or to pitcher adjustments. .850 is probably on the high end of what he will do, but I think he’s got enough power to slug close to .525 regularly…and I think he can maintain a .325 OBP.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
And, while I like Joey Bombs...
there is absolutely no way in hell we can assume we will be as good a hitter and/or fielder as the All-Star Holliday.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Please
don’t imply the fact that Holliday was an all-star automatically makes him a great player.
He’s pretty good. He looks even better right now, since all our OF is either slumping, hurt, or both. BUT, for what he would cost, how in the world would he help this team win at least 4 or 5 more games?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
just sayin, maybe we need to practice what we preach...
first, i love Ryan Ludwick, but, I’m trying to be completely objective here, but we are very quick to defend his ‘ability’ and his ‘status’ on the merits of his all-star selection and silver slugger award. But, I’m not able to say that Matt Holiday is a better due to his multiple accolades as a Silver Slugger and All-Star berths? I’m projecting a bit here, and I know it, but I’d say the vast majority of this community feels Ludwick is an above average player, one we’d like to keep due to great value, high ceiling, and overall class. Now, given the merits of his accomplishments, and given those of Matt Holliday, am I wrong saying that RIGHT NOW, Matt Holiday is a more proven hitter than Ryan Ludwick, and therefore may offer us greater protection in the cleanup spot? Personally, I like my opinion on this matter, but I understand that’s my opinion.
And for the record, I have avoided the conversation of ‘cost’ because to be absolutely honest, I have no clue what it would take to get him. I started on this dialogue because the comment you made about giving up Motte or Perez (solely) for DeRosa. I personally felt that if you are going to include one of those prime value, high ceiling contributors of the present and future, I’d like to do so in an exchange that could potentially net more reciprocal ‘talent’ and/or ceiling. There absolutely is a prohibitive cost, if the return to get him is too high.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 4, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Point taken.
I think the arguement is a pretty simple one really. I believe a more subtle move to address a need may help the team more. You believe getting the best hitter available would help the team more. Both sides have lots of merit.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Just FYI
Ludwick was an All-Star and a Silver Slugger while playing in a much more difficult home park than Holliday. Have you seen Ludwick’s splits at Coors field?
.692/.667/1.615/2.282
Obviously that’s only 15 AB’s…but you get my overall point….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Put me on board
with no thank you. I like DeRosa, and think he would be a nice addition, but I think six years of either one of those guys is more valuable than four months of DeRo.
However, DeRo is kind of a cool nickname, so I may have to rethink my position.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ReBa is almost as cool
so you have that going for you
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Ooh, that's true.
Except then every time I heard it I would think of Reba McIntyre’s (spelling?), television show, and then I would have to punch myself in the face for bringing it up. So, think I’ll have to pass.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Cain
outside of Pujols and Rasmus, I’d seriously consider everyone else of value if Cain was being offered
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd even consider...
players with little or no value.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
outfield
responding in fragments here…
…I don’t expect that Cards to anything about the collective outfield slump except tough it out until they (hopefully) start heating up
I’d even accept league average production from them at this point
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 4, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
That’s the difference between the 3B and OF situations, I think. The team needs an upgrade at third, I think, whereas in the outfield, there’s enough talent already there. Ludwick and Rasmus alone make it one of the better OFs in the game; either get one of Duncan/ Ankiel going, or bring back the Bombinator when he’s ready, and things start to look really good. I’m not sure there’s really an in-house solution to 3B.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Mather is back to hitting
2 hits, one a HR last night. He’s hot: call him up before he cools off, Barden’s doing nothing.
Our offensive offensive ineptitude
This might actually be a topic for a FanPost, but I noticed an alarming trend in regards to our less than potent offense.
It is no secret that we have lacked offensive potency for a while, but our ability to score (especially in bunches) has been nonexistent since the series beginning May 12 at Pittsburgh.
In the 21 games that have transpired starting May 12, the Cards have managed just TWO innings scoring three runs or more. By my count, that is a paltry 1.1% of our innings (2 of 183, as home wins only have 8). I don’t have the data in front of me for what league averages are for 3+ run innings, but 1.1% is certainly woeful.
The two innings:
Tuesday: Stav scored 2 on a misplayed “2B” and came around to score on a wild pitch
5/26: Colby and WW homered and Skip hit an RBI single
Somehow we have managed to go 10-11 in these games, but if the trend continues our pitchers better be untouchable.
If anyone has any resources to look at frequency of 3+ run innings across the league or historically without manually parsing game data, your help is much appreciated. Is a 3-R HR too much to ask for??
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
The Brewers
Have scored 3+ runs in 11 innings over that time frame (or about 6% of their innings) while going 13-8. Moreover, they had a multitude of 4- 5- and 6-run innings, of which we managed zero. Our last 4 run inning was on May 7.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
That's just utterly bizarre.
Offensive struggles are one thing, but to realise that the team hasn’t hit a single 3 run homer for the better part of a month is just almost impossible to imagine. That’s the sort of thing that even terrible offensive teams luck into regularly.
Really strange.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The last 3+ HR we hit was on 4/25...
Albert’s GS against the Cubs. Seriously, WTF! How is that possible??
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
nobody gets on base
not all that strange. .299 obp for the month of may.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 4, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
eesh.
That .299 was good for last in the NL. .688 monthly OPS? That’s like sending 9 Joe McEwing’s up there.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I lol'ed
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Is Skip having a good year
because everyone else is sucking? or because he’s going to be a solid offensive player going forward? what’s it going to take to get B_G Mac to come out of hiding and take over as the hitting coach? surely he could do better than, be aggressive be be aggressive McRae? I know the hitting coach doesn’t have a huge effect, but he seems to have helped Skip.
Skip's having a good year
because he’s a reasonable hitter. He’s been pretty consistent, year-to-year, since making the big leagues. I think he’s an .800 OPS guy going forward, especially if his exposure to LHP is limited.
He’s also a + defender in LF, and a liability at 2B, so I’m moving towards the idea of shifting him back to his best position…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
But
Him staying at 2B allows the OF prospects to work their way up. What would have happened with Colby if Skip stayed in the OF? I think the experiment has worked out and he’s only going to get better at 2B. Skip hasn’t been bad against lefties so far this year. He’s been limited in his exposure to them, but he’s still getting on base at a .351 clip against them (higher than against righties)
I think the transition is working, too.
He made a solid play last night, and is making better throws to first (especially compared to the guy that would replace him at second). He has SO much more value as a .800 OPS 2 bagger than a .800 OPS left fielder.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I understand the concept of positional adjustments and comparative values, but I wonder
If a team has a unique enough situation, does that kind of thinking cause problems? If a team has enough offense from the rest of their lineup, they can totally afford to have Pedro Feliz as their 3B, even though he hits comparatively worse than most 3B. So, if our lineup was constructed a certain way, we could afford to just put Skip at LF (assuming he’s not blocking DJ Tools yet or anything like that). A lineup in a game does not take positional adjustments into account or anything, the players just go to bat and it’s entirely separate from where they play defense, strictly speaking. So I wonder if the positional value-influenced thinking that is prevalent on the web these days has somewhat skewed peoples’ perception of roster construction in certain ways? Just a thought, I am not disparaging cardzfanbub’s comment at all.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
unless
Barden/Thurston is going to hit better than Skip going forward, keeping Skip at 2B provides an in-house answer at 2B, a position of much change in the past, and saves the organization money to put towards ______.
I don’t think that has anything to do with what you’re saying, just my thoughts on the situation.
That is not true
Thurston/Barden will be at least average at 2B while Schumaker is horrible at 2B. So even if they don’t hit as good as Schumaker when you factor in the glove they don’t have to be even that close.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally
I rank defense just under walk rate’s as the most important thing for a ball player to posses. My reasoning is that even when you are in a slump that happens to everyone at least you have your defense to fall back on. The same thing about a good steady walk rate.
Defense + Walk Rate = Steady value throughout a season
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, walk rate is lauded as being slump-proof, but I question that.
Isn’t Colby in a bit of a walk slump right now? Come to think of it, isn’t our entire outfield (minus Luddy) in a walk slump right now?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Exactly what I was thinking
I also wonder how luck-proof walk rate is? I seem to remember some giddiness at how many walks Ankiel was taking, once upon a time…
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Colby is a noob so he doesn't count
I am talking about players that have shown they have down it repeatedly over multiple seasons
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the point is that,
while average, slg, etc. could fluctuate wildly between seasons, walk rate is going to be pretty consistent. Thats not saying its going to be the same month to month, but walk rate in one year is going to be much more predictive of walk rate in the next whereas avg, slg, whatever won’t correlate as well.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I see walk rate as a skill
While AVG and SLG are also skills they also have higher variance rates due to so many other facts
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
variance, theres the word I wanted.
nice.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Walk Rate
Judging by that, we need to completely abolish batting average from our lexicon entirely and not even track that stat at all.
I like it.
It is amazing to me how just a few hits can affect average:
over a season (500 PAs), just 12 texas leaguers, seeing-eye ground balls, duckfarts, wingnuts, whatever, is the difference between .275 and .300
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Thanks Crash
You hear all week?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Humpbacks, swinging bunts, tricklers,
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
My thinking on Skip
it’s maybe a bit early to bale on 2B because, like you say, to the naked eye he’s actually looked OK. On the other hand, his range is bad and isn’t going to get any better – if he was getting to balls and booting them/making bad throws I’d think there was room for improvement on his basic skillset, but I just don’t see how he’ll learn a quicker first-step/more athleticism. He’ll probably hit for an .800 OPS, though, which would play OK in LF (where he’s a positive fielder, and where our other LH option, Duncan, is a similar, arguably slightly better hitter, but a much worse fielder) but only really brings him up to replacement level at 2B.
Basically, I’m saying he’s a good LF but probably a pretty bad 2B going forward, and we have some decent internal 2B options (Thursty/Bard platoon) that could probably do better, AS WELL AS a gaping hole in LF where Dunc continues to be pretty mediocre. I’m not saying we should dump Dunc, or Ank, just yet, but consider starting Schu more often in LF (where an .800 OPS plays fine anyhow).
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I was kinda coming around to something like this
only you said it better than I would have. I can envision that, at the end of the year, Skip could have had higher value in LF for the team than 2B.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
what about next year and the year after that
when players like Wallace or Jones or Jay are ready to come up?
I'll grant that completely
In fact I’m starting to worry that we won’t find something to do with Skip and he will end up making their situations difficult unfairly. I am very excited for those two, especially Jones because I am finally admitting to myself that Wallace is not a sure bet to actually end up as a major league third baseman with us.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
What would have happened with Colby if Skip stayed in the OF?
I think he’d be an everyday AAA player and we’d have him team-controlled for more prime years.
I think it’s a crappy system for the players, but I’d aim to consider any financial edge as a GM.
Outfield help?
Apparrently Matt Holliday is ok with a trade. He hasn’t been lighting it up in Oakland, but He’s righthanded and in the final year of his contract. Depending on what Billy Beano would ask for him, would he be worth a gamble? Or does Haren/Mulder still sting too much to deal with Oakland?
Really?
Apparrently Matt Holliday is ok with a trade.
Funny you should say that…I just overheard him talking to his agent, Scott Boras:
“Get me out of Oakland!!! I want to go back to Coors Field!!! Please!!! I’ll do anything!!!”
Ugh, enough with the Matt Holliday talk unless he’s going to come here and play 3B.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
If skip can play 2B why can't he play 3B?
seriously though, package Ankiel in the deal with a couple minor league pitchers and that leaves you an OF of Holliday, Rasmus, Ludwick with Duncan off the bench. Lineup of (OPS) :
Schumaker (.768)
Rasmus (.752)
Pujols (1.149)
Holliday (.804)
Ludwick (.771)
Thurston (.812)
Molina (.702)
Pitcher
Ryan (.721)
might produce at a better clip than what’s currently out there.
Why would Oakland want Ankiel?
he’s crap right now, and I’m guessing will only be a type B unless he turns it on for the remainder of the year. I know he’s cheap, but I think Jon Jay or Allen Craig would have more value to the A’s than Ankiel.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
just tell the A's
you can have the pitchers you want, but you also have take Ankiel. he’s in a contract year too, so they are saving money this year & next.
Again
Why would we just give them a bunch of minor league starters, one of the areas that our farm system is traditionally weak, and then just throw in Rick Ankiel for the hell of it? That doesn’t make much sense at all. It’s not like we’re dumping a tremendously amount of salary by trading Rick.
They would ask for Wallace, Ludwick, Perez/Motte, Jay, Jones, and Anderson, probably in that order. They are stacked to the gills with starting pitching but will need some help with position players as their rotation starts to round into shape in the next couple of years.
Hell, why not just trade them Rick Ankiel for Adam Kennedy and move Skip back to LF? We’re already paying Kennedy and he’s out OPSing Holliday this season….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
your crazy man, I like you, but your crazy
I just think is might be worth it to kick the tires and see what they ask for. The majority of people seem to be down on Ankiel, so I just threw him out there. I know they won’t be able to pull the wool over Beane’s eye’s, but who knows, maybe a reasonable trade could result. if not, no harm, no foul.
I think there are much better deals to be had
If we’re going to trade our one prized trade chip, which is Wallace, and that’s almost certainly going to be the beginning and end of any discussions for Matt Holliday.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
and that would be fine with me
if Mo asked, and they said Wallace, then I wouldn’t want the deal. I’m just curious, more than anything, about what Beane would ask for. Holliday hasn’t been tearing the cover off the ball so he’s not really in a sell high position.
He shouldn't be in a sell high mode
but I think this is one of those times when the player’s name is going to up the value of any deal a bit. Just my .02 on the issue.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh...
and the Kennedy thing was a total joke, btw. He apparently only hits worth a shit when he’s playing in the AL west.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Skip would probably be better at 3B than 2B
his lack of range and agility wouldn’t be such a factor and the things he’s good at (decent reactions, decent at catching hard-hit drives, strong arm) would play better at that spot. I guess we’d have tried him at third instead of 2nd in the spring if we’d not been apparently stacked at that position, and it might not be a crazy idea for him to move there in the future, but I really can’t see a second wierd-ass positional switch for the cobbler in the same year.
Also, our LFers are currently producing jack-squat, and Duncan is a liability there in the field. See where this is heading???
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I like that idea
put skip at third!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly I am a little suprised it hasn't happened yet
He can’t be any worst than he is at 2B
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
plus he has the arm to do it so why not?
put brendan ryan at SS (or tyler greene if somehow he gets called up), shift the 3B platoon to a 2B platoon, and there ya go! maybe skip can get some tutelage from Oquendo and be the next secret weapon
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
All I know at 2B
Skip has a negative value to the team. He is offense is not good enough to make up for how bad he is at defense at 2B. I want to find daily or even month to month UZR data but I don’t know where to find it I would like to see his progress at 2B
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
To me that's the key...
what does May look like compared to April. In my minds’ eye he has improved substantially…but what do the numbers say?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
the numbers are whispering in my ear
move Skip to third!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
it was an oddly loud whisper
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think there is any way...
they ask that of Skip this season. Skip still prefers the outfield AFAIK. MAYBE they try it in the offseason if the 3B situation is still a ?…but I still doubt it.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I may be completely off base
but isn’t third a little bit easier to play than second? or are Skip’s reflexes just not fast enough to get those line drives down the line?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
third's a bit easier yeah
and I think his skill-set plays a bit better there, just from observation. I say we keep moving him round the diamond until we find a spot he can stick at :-)
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
why not
he can’t really be confused much more than he already is
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
His Bat is not the problem
His glove is currently negative 10 runs so far in this season. I honestly believed going into the season he would be negative 30 runs with the glove. He looks like he is proving me to be right with about a third of the season over with.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That's kind of scary
I will just keep telling myself he’s improving, small sample size, players-aren’t-walking-statsheets, first out at third, small ball, RBIWinsSacrificeBunt and whatever other lies and half-truths I need to in order to feel better about it.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
gin. also.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Yes, a stiff Americano or Negroni would be good right now.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
JustWatchAlbertJustWatchAlbertJustWatchAlbert
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
At least.
Defensively speaking only, of course.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I guess I just don't see it
maybe it would be more noticeable if the team was scoring more than 2 runs/game
I tend to agree
that, by eye, he hasn’t looked too bad. He doesn’t get to a lot of balls that a good 2B would lay a glove on, but his basics (throwing, catching, glovework) at the position don’t look THAT bad. I guess I just haven’t seen the (total estimate) TWENTY-odd plays that Schu hasn’t made this year that an average 2B would need to make, in order for him to be -10 runs with the glove.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, but here's the rub:
he’s missed those 20 plays in, what, 55 games? Are you telling me you recall each of those games well enough to say that Skip hasn’t let through one grounder every two games?
Does he look all that bad? No. Then again, neither does Derek Jeter playing shortstop, but we know for a fact that he is, in fact, hurting his team in the field.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Its what I don't remember seeing that sticks out...
Like getting to a ball in short right field. TAKE THAT, SCIENCE!
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Sweet!
He’s turned his career around! Best shortstop ever.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yes cause 36 years olds get better on defense
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
chipper jones says "FU VEP."
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Not better...
grittier.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Ladies and Gentleman, we have a Gordon Beckham Sighting!
Sox DFA Betemit, promote Beckham
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Yeah, I'm very interested in that
I’ll have to watch a game or 2.
yeah, that betemit trade worked out about as well as expected by everybody except maybe the sox.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Beckham
My husband is taking his nephew to the Sox game this afternoon and is very excited to see Beckham play. Interested to get the full report.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by ChiTown CardFan on Jun 4, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Beckham was at AAA Charlotte,
So depending on game and travel times, its unclear whether he would be available to play today. Even if he is, likely not going to be in anything other than maybe a PH or defensive sub role.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I watched the Reds, Brewers
series almost in it’s entirety this past weekend and Nix and Hanagan looked completely over matched by Brewer’s pitching (In fact the whole team looked weak) then they come to St Louis and look like a couple of all stars. go figure.
TLR vs Twitter
TLR apparently won his suit against twitter for somebody impersonating him. Some of it would be hilarious were it not, you know, dragging dead players into it. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/EE6F33724CD83215862575CB0005FF0A?OpenDocument
There are screenshots of it somewhere.
RIP David Carradine
hung himself in a hotel room in bangkok
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
damn
can’t believe it, I didn’t even think this was real first. RIP
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I was pretty shocked at saddened by this news.
I mean, talk about an ignoble end. I liked David Carradine, and that is a pretty creepy and bizarre way for somebody you like to die. Furthermore, I heard he was dead and had no idea of the circumstances until I looked it up online. I assume he had died at home of a heart attack or something else normal like that.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
And a repeated spelling fail.
Samurai.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but they are supposed to fall upon their swords, aren't they?
The funny part in his profile is that the guy is actually Irish and Native American. Not a drop of Asian blood in him.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Seppuku fail
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
it's pretty unbelievable
It’s hard to really comment on because I still kind of can’t believe it. Talk about being blindsided.
RIP.
Do you
think this was a case of autoerotic asphyxiation?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
There's a comment
over at my blog that suggests it may have been. Ew.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard they are actually not sure it was suicide or not
Apparently he had tied up his genitals too. So it could of been something sexual that went wrong.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
when the plot thickens with this one, it really thickens. I had not heard anything about that.
Though, I read that he was naked. I had just assumed it was on drugs or decided to die naked. Ugh. This just gets worse and worse.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
he was in Thailand
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a red flag
There are only so many reasons somebody with money would go to Thailand voluntarily.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
where's akaitori when ya need him
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn't he working on a movie in Thailand??
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That would be one of the possible reasons
but the others that come to mind are way more icky.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
And I just looked it up
he was filming a movie.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
doesn't really change things much
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
True
but at least he had a reason to be in Thailand. If somebody just goes to Thailand I half expect that person to be a sex tourist until proven otherwise.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
when in Thailand...
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Barton got called up last night and played in Atlanta
You guys probably already know this.
I was watching the Cubs game . He pinch ran. Then got caught stealing. Then played right field. Yeah, right field believe it or not.
he looked scrawnier than i remember
and his helmet didn’t go flying off, which is probably why he got caught stealing. even though it looked like he might have got there.
we could really use him right now
a right-handed outfield bat with some patience at the plate and a decent glove. As opposed to a kinda-crappy right-handed reliever…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
he's not eating well in Georgia?
Geez.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Going right back down too I bet
Considering that they just added Nate McClouth..
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I wish Tony would look at these numbers:
Since May 24th last 10 games,
Rasmus is hitting .321/.345/.714/1.059 w/ 2 HRs
Duncan is hitting .242/.306/.364/.669 w/ 1 HR
Rick is hitting .136/.174/.273/.447
And for comparison
Skippy is .316/.366/.368/.734
Can anyone explain why you don’t start one of your hottest bats every single day?
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Duncan's hit a HR in the last 10 games?
How did I miss that?
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
May 26th
in an 8-1 thomping of the Brew Crew http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIL/MIL200905260.shtml
HR: N Stavinoha (1, off J Suppan; 2nd inn, 0 on, 2 outs to Deep LF); C Duncan (4, off S McClung; 6th inn, 1 on, 2 outs to Deep CF-RF); A Wainwright (1, off J Suppan; 4th inn, 0 on, 2 outs to Deep LF-CF); C Rasmus (5, off J Suppan; 4th inn, 0 on, 0 outs to Deep CF).
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Man
I even watched (most of) that game. Too many Franklins, not enough brain cells…
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Yeah, I can explain.
Three letters: T.L.R.
You must expect—and even embrace—the bizarre. Don’t try to analyze these things in greater depth; that way lies madness.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 4, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
We can't have it both ways
castigate TLR for playing small sample-size matchups, then chastise him for not starting a player entirely base on his hitting stats for the last 7 or 8 games he’s started. But I take your point.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
the columnist, or the race car guy?
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha.
Totally with you on that one. Actually, I would have been with you either way, but I wanted to know exactly whom I was directing my hatred at today.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops.
That last sentence should read “…to know at whom exactly I was directing my hatred today.”
Grammatical failure for me.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Still wish
I had that patented. Think of all the tee shirt sales I’m missing out on. Like, three, at least.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone else think he is getting show cased for a trade?
Cause Todd is exactly what we have a surplus of, RHP
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
uh...yea i do
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
they gotta prove...
that he’s “major-league ready”
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He has been destroying AAA with a Sub 2.0 FIP
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
wow!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
really the only sensible explanation.
what we need now is someone to absorb innings in low leverage relief. i’m struggling to figure out why todd is better than a lot of options not on the 40-man (walters, boggs, the hawk, etc.). this makes sense. todd for derosa sounds about right.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I'm going to pretend...
like they are calling him up to take Motte’s place, make Motte the closer and put Franklin on the block. I like Franklin well enough, and I believe the cutter is the difference, but I like the idea of a pen that has Motte, Todd and Perez in it for multiple years.
If Todd shows well is Perez below both he and Motte on the depth chart?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
You don't fuck with a good thing
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I almost...
went with my wife being a good thing, but…probably not appropriate.
You’re probably right, and it would make more sense to make Todd available than Franklin…thing is we could save $3M+ (chump change I realize), have a very good late inning reliever for six years cost controlled, and probably get more in return if we trade Franklin.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Until Perez gets his walk rate under control
I don’t think you can use him in high leverage innings.
I really..
don’t see much reason for Todd to be called up. Maybe showcasing him as trade bait?
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yknow
it is interesting
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
OT: What is your favorite stat to judge players?
I am curious what stat do you guys look at when evaluating players? Like when I look at hitters I first look at their walk rate. I feel that a hitter that walks a lot is most important thing for an offense. For Relief Pitchers I always look at their K/BB rate. 2.0 is the minimum I put for a decent player. Starting pitching can be a little trickier but I normally look at WHIP to see how many guys they are putting on base.
Stat Whore
sort of embarrassing
but I’m still trying to wrap my mind around wOBA. my big victory from last season was understanding BABIP, at first I just thought it sounded retarded
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
wOBA is a weighted onbase + slugging system
Just remember
.300 = bad
.340 = average
.400 = good
OBP + SLG = Flawed
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you just throw OPS under the bus like that?
I mean, I wouldn’t say it is completely flawed… also, what about OPS+? where’s the best place to get OPS+ stats?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Best place
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
duh
I knew that
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
We had a discussion about this the other day..... I think SleepyCA
Because OBP is actually more valuable than SLG
If you had a team full of .400 OBP + .400 SLG vs .300OBP + .500SLG both would be .800 OPS
But the .400 OBP would score about 100 more runs in a season
(someone smarter chime in)
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
the stat is good at showing the peeps who both slug and get on base a lot
I guess it’s not as good at measuring the difference between middle of the pack offensive players though I suppose
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was me who mentioned that the other day
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
OPS treats a point of slugging the same as a point of OBP, when a point of OBP is more condusive to run scoring
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
OBP + SLG = Flawed
I think that’s overstating things a bit. Plus I’ve actually seen mainstream sports journalists and broadcasters use it, and they even put it on the scoreboard at Chase Field. I prefer wOBA myself, but even though it slightly pains me to say it I think pairing with league-average OBP (~.335) rather than AVG (as Baseball Prospectus’ EqA does) was a well-intentioned mistake as it pertains to public acceptance. OPS has the benefit of 1000 being really good, and that’s an easy number.
http://www.basement-dwellers.com/2008/06/why-do-i-keep-using-ops.html
That article has a graph that attempts to report the accuracy of wOBA, OPS, AVG, SLG, and all sorts of other things including variations on OPS which analyze and adjust the importance of the on-base side of it. Look at how close OPS and wOBA are. Highly recommended reading!
I’ll post some highlights here too:
…MLB team offense totals, 2005-2007…Numbers closer to 1.0 indicate a closer relationship between runs scored and the statistic in question
AVG: 0.7244
OBP: 0.8340
OPS: 0.9231
wOBA: 0.9350
You forgot:
Dirt on uniform: 0.9357
Jawline: 0.9457
Heart: 0.9662
“Something special”: 0.9488
Grit: 0.9951 (!!!)
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
there ya go
OPS ain’t so bad
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I would like to see how they compare among players with...
Similar OPS’s but large differences between their OBP and SLG percentages
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There are always outliers. I’d like to see that too, but I think his point is sufficiently made about how close OPS and wOBA are with regard to general performance.
I normally use OPS for its simplicity
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Like you say, there ARE outliers
so it’s important to examine the ACTUAL slash lines, or look at wOBA or something.
Actual case in point: Ankiel OPSed something half decent against LHP last year (despite looking mostly clueless against lefties), I think it was like .750 or something off the top of my head. HOWEVER, when you look a bit closer, it was powered by a (probably unsustainable) high slugging % (likely cracked a few dingers than his FB% would predict, or got a bit lucky on BIP or something), and his OBP vs LHP was like .280 or something similarly awful. So a bit more detailed look at the numbers would demonstrate that Ank actually IS pretty crap at hitting lefties…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If you looked at Ank’s wOBA vs LHP would you have drawn a different conclusion? That’s a sample size issue, and checking that first would cast a proper light on either wOBA or OPS. The slash line sure is easy to read, though.
I use wOBA by default; that’s my go-to all-in-one offensive stat. I wouldn’t call OPS out, though, as it’s pretty damn simple and pretty damn accurate. I think that looking down our noses at OPS is a great way to keep stat-haters looking down their noses at us and OPS is already cracking the mainstream.
How does wOBA not have a perfect correlation?
The numbers are based off of the average run value of each event in a given year. In theory, league wOBA should match up perfectly with runs scored.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
Are wOBA and GPA the same thing, just weighted differently?
I like how closely wOBA is scaled to OBP (which I’m sure is part of the point). I think the average OBP and wOBA tend to hover around .330 or so.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
wOBA uses linear weights, GPA is simply (OBP*1.8+SLG)/4 with (optional?) park adjustments. If someone has an OBP of .400 and a SLG of .600, their GPA would be .720+.600/4, which is .330 or “totally awesome” expressed in BA. wOBA is perfectly scaled to OBP; for any given year, league average wOBA will be EXACTLY equal to league average OBP.
Wow, so they're actually a lot different then.
And I didn’t know that wOBA was actually scaled to OBP exactly, I just knew that they intended it to be a similar scale to OBP. Oh yeah, and I forgot that GPA was intended to resemble BA moreso than OBP. Maybe someday I’ll actually read one of the SABR-type books, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to just ask people on VEB.
Thanks!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
big fan of WHIP
just seems like a really simple and objective way to see if they are a good pitcher or not.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
the major flaw with WHIP....
is that a single is weighted equally to a home run….you can pitch 9 innings and give up 9 homeruns and have a WHIP of 1.00…..I’m a big fan of OPS and OPS against
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
OPS is too flawed for me
I just rather have a stat line. I even use OPS when I explain things to people since it is easy but it is not weighted.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed...but its easier to explain that wOBA
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel ya
We just got some people to start using OPS I don’t want to tell them it is outdated now
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I think that's a big issue
OPS is winning people over, so why mess with a good thing? Now if only we could get them to stop pronouncing it as if it’s an acronym…
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Nope
but I also don’t say “opps” because opps is not a word. Whip is a word. Oddly enough you never hear people pronounce ERA as a word, even though era is totally a word. Maybe it’s because era is actually relevant to a lot of baseball discussions, and that’s just too confusing.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Huh
OK, maybe I’m off base. I had never heard of anybody actually pronouncing OPS until people started making fun of the ESPN guys doing it. So I assumed nobody actually pronounced it. The feeling I got was that their pronouncing it was like a metaphor for how not “with it” they were or something.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Wait Wait Wait
People say OPS like OPuS? I just say the letters out
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I have never heard somebody say it like "opus"
Only “ops”. WHIP is not just an acronym, it’s an acronym that is actually a real word, unlike say, SONAR which was not a word until it was made into one by virtue of being an acronym. So I think WHIP is the only baseball initialism that really makes sense as an acronym. It’s just too hard not to pronounce it. It’s also four letters long and has a W, so it’s a lot harder to say by spelling it out.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Same - O P S
I don’t like you guys because you are different!
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Hey, we have to have some standards here
Can’t let the rabble just do whatever they want now can we.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
I always say
O P S
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, you do, in fact, know me.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
god, i love a good pronuncation discussion
here’s one for the database connoisseurs…
SQL = pronounced “sequel” or S-Q-L
Sequel is a specific database database product
SQL is a standard. Or something free like my s q l.
Please, keep up.
ok, that last part was a joke.
S Q L
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
I always say
E-R-A
O-P-S
and
hhhwhip.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
hhhhhhwhooo RRR UUU???
And how is a raven like a writing desk, anyway?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Just say that wOBA is OPS with slugging and OBP wieghed properly
That’s sorta the truth :)
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
is it ok to say
Woba?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't he a character in Star Wars?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
what I was thinking
it sounded like a star wars character of some sort
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
how is it said then?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll just say
Woba for short
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally say "woba"
O-P-S, E-R-A and whip.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked OPS just a week before
And I’d never ever seen a graph of WAR
but Woba’s probably my favorite stat
when it comes to hitting Woba’s where it’s at!
And that’s the way that I’m going to stay,
I like it even better than EqA, that’s my Woba
W-O-B-A Woba,
Wo wo wo wo Wobaaa
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
good one!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
WHIP
has the same problems that ERA has, in that it’s defense-dependent. It seems useful at first, but only until you realise that it’s controlled by all the same things we’ve been trying to clean out of all our other stats.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it is nearly as flawed as...
ERA. An errant throw to first, that would have ended the inning gets followed by two singles a walk and a double – 0 earned runs (maybe-I still don’t fully understand the scoring on this) but the 4 baserunners still count against WHIP.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Is it AS flawed? No.
But still flawed. It’s the old Jeff Suppan argument all over again. In front of the Cardinal defense, his WHIP, along with all his other traditional statistics, would be better, simply because more plays were made behind him. Every single that gets by Rickie Weeks affects his WHIP, thus, the problem.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
so you'd just go with FIP?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the easiest, yes.
I wish things like tRA and whatnot weren’t so damned complicated; we’re finally getting to the point that we can measure and quantify all outcomes, but the resulting algorithm is so fucking dense that only an MIT graduate really gets how the whole thing works.
But really, just moving from defense-dependent to -independent is a quantum leap forward. Oh, boy.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hooray!
I was hoping someone got it, at least.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I sure didn't
heh
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
FIP is 90% there, and it's super easy to calculate
so yes
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
I don't think you can look at...
one stat and judge a pitcher. I probably look at WHIP for a quick feel of how good a pitcher is. Most of the time you can categorize pretty well with WHIP, IMO.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
That is my general feeling also
WHIP isn’t the end all stat but it is a good one for me to look at it. If a pitcher has a low WHIP than he is more than likely a good pitcher
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
my new stat will be
FWHIP!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
fwip just sounds cool
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
fwwwwipppp
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a fwwwwwwip of 1.0000
Impressed?
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
VERY impressed
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
good point
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You should avoid using WHIP for two reasons
1) It credits pitchers with how many hits they allow and that is largely not under a pitchers control.
2) It treats a homer the same as a single, when it’s clear that a homer is much, much worse.
You might as well look at FIP. It’s a much better statistic for judging how good a pitcher is as it properly weighs all things that a pitcher can control.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
Well it's close
tRA is the best, but it’s a bitch to calculate
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
tRA certainly seems to have a lot of quality input, but I still haven’t seen a showdown between it FIP. That’s the reason Fangraphs uses FIP for pitcher WAR:
“That doesn’t mean that we’re set in our ways and that these win values will never be improved upon. If and when a new metric like tRA is proven to be significantly more effective in valuing pitchers (and I’m hopeful that it will be, given more data exploration on the topic), we won’t be standing here as guardians of the infallibility of FIP”
I think tRA is statcorner exclusive
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn't hard to calculate
It just takes awhile. I’m going to throw up a post at BtB soon using my own home brewed version of tRA.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
I thought I heard that tRA was more predictive or something?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
It's more involved
but not as statistically sound as FIP
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
COME ON man!
I was just getting used to WHIP!
Now you’ll say I should get started on something wFIP+ or something.
EqwFIP3*+
That’s “third order equivalent weighted fielding independent pitching plus”
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
>snort< i can’t believe you cited to “third order equivalent weighted fielding independent pitching plus.” that’s not even park-, season-, humidity-, wind-speed-, or stadium-attendance-adjusted.
n00b.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Psh
All those things have to do with baseball games played in a real stadium, “outside” where bears are. I am of course talking about Pure Baseball stats, which only applies to simulations. Get back to me when you’ve spent a little more time in your mother’s basement simulating real baseball, and not out there in the world watching baseball games!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 4, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have actually always wondered about statium attendance and home field advantage
It is harder to account for in baseball but in every other sport where the field is the same it could be weighted.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder about humidity and lighting effects
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder about boobs.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
why limit yourself to just boobs?
women have all kinds of wonderful things for us gents to wonder about
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
I thought the other day
that the crowd at Busch seriously lacks the energy the 04-05 teams had at Busch and wondered if that really does have an effect on a game.
I know it can’t be scientifically proven, but would all outcomes of games be the same if they played in empty stadiums?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
Look at other sports where teams have huge Home Loss splits
Like look at KU at basketball. They almost never lose at home but can be beaten on the road.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
This should be an interesting discussion...
Depends on what I am judging them for.
For hitters, I usually use wOBA or EQA (even though I know it understates OBP). My latest fad is trying to understand BaseRuns better.
For defense, pick ’em. Some iteration of UZR probably.
Pitchers: I tend to like FIP, though I know it has its disadvantages. Its just easy to understand. K/9 for starters and WHIP is up there too. I tend to forget the league bias when looking at plain K rates, so league adjusted pitching stats are helpful.
For All-Star/MVP votes, I like wPA – shows what the player contributed to team success a little more clearly.
For HOF – Rally’s WAR or anything that justifiable rates Cardinals high.
Is that nerdy enough?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I think the problem with UZR is that we abuse it
We look at small samples too much and use it is to predict future events. I think it takes like two seasons worth of data to make any good reseasonable guess to future defensive events
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
just want to make sure that
wPA is the same as WPA
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
say wPA three times fast and this guy appears
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
My favourites
For hitters, OBP. Cuts right to the heart of things. How good are you at not making an out? There are plenty of others that are good, of course, but that gives me at least an idea of what sort of player I’m looking at.
For pitchers, I’m a sucker for the K/BB as well. FIP, of course, is the simplest stat to look at.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Fielder's choices
count as outs, as do errors. No problem there.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess they do.
I never really looked into OBP. Just assumed if you were standing on 1st 2nd or 3rd, after you batted, it went towards your OBP.
Won/loss record...
batting average, and saves ALL THE WAY!!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
You forgot the three most important things
R, B, and I!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
More specifically,
GW RBI
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
That redundant
because RBI are what win games. Not clogging up the bases.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
TEH RITE ANSER IS I DONT UZE STATS I JUST UZE MY EYZE.
IF YOU WACHED REAL BASEBAL GAYMES INSTED OF STAING IN UR MOMZ BAESEMET, U WOUDN’T NEED STOOPID STATZ.
I CAN TELL WHO IZ GOOD AN WHO ISNT JUST BY LOOKIN.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
RBIs!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I have question.
How the he** is Albert supposed to hit with runners on base, if Colby keeps on hitting homeruns in front of him?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
And now I see Flimtotheflam
used the exact same joke 3 posts above me. Oh well, I guess it is ok. I think this one is going to evolve into the newest “the Giants need a lefthanded 1st baseman” line anyway.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 4, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
ABs all the way
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 4, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I would of started a fanpost if I knew this thead was so popular
Maybe I still will with some definitions of the most popular stats
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You should just start a "statistical anaylsis thread"
that way anyone who has question can have them answered.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
There was one last year
I understood approximately 21% of it.
sounds good to me
I like philosophising about stats
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I like all the stats
even the old school ones
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Tying the thread together
wouldn’t it have made more sense for the Braves to sign Jim Edmonds at $1 M this year than trade 3 prospects for Nate McLouth’s contract the next 3 years?
probably
I was surprised that no one signed him anyway
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Sign Jim Edmonds over Garret Anderson, yes
Dumb baseball move, IMO
Also, Frank Wren isn’t making any friends with some of Atlanta’s die-hard. First, he runs Smoltz outta town, now he drops Glavine.
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Beyond the Box Score just reviewed the trade
Braves came out ahead by $12 million dollars over the life of the players
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Meaning that Nate McLouth will be worth $12 M more
over the next 10 years or that his contract will cost less. Cause the second is a big fat ‘no duh!’.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Worth more than $12M more in value over his contract
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm reading it and am I to assume they believe McLouth is a $15 M/year player
for the next 4 years of his contract?
They owe him $22 M for the rest of his contract. What is his total value over the next 4 years.
Contrasting that against the prospects that would be worth $22 M but likely would only cost $10 M total during arbitration years.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I said I'm reading it
What I’m saying I would like to see is:
Nate McLouth value (in dollars) over next 4 years
Nate McLouth contract over next 4 years ($22 M)
Minor League players value over arbitration years
Minor League players cost over arbitration years (estimated)
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The way I'm understanding it is
that Nate McLouth is being paid $22 M for 4 years but will be worth $60 M over the same stretch. That is a net value of $38 M, not $ 32.
The minor league players only expect to be worth $20 M in value over their careers, but it doesn’t say what their expected cost would be over the lifetime of their careers or even during their arbitration years. Maybe that is inherent in the calculations he came up with the total value.
I’m guessing the $32 is prorated to remove part of this season.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the prospects arbitration is a non factor
It can’t be that much where it would really factor in. McLouth’s contract ends in 2012 or just around the time these prospects possibly would be reaching their first Arbitration.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That is flat out amazing that
we already know exactly how much Nate McLouth is going to be worth over the next 4 years.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Somebody give us a fucking job running a team already
LMAO
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i prefer win-win-win negotiations
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 4, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that anything like
alright-alright-alright negotiations? ’Cause those are my favourites.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What's cooler than being cool?
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Ankiels May?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 4, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
BURN!
Incineration! You are the insult master!
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice
just call ankiel the iceman
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
ICE COLD!!!!
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Russ Springer ain't faring so well
WHIP of 2.02, ERA near 7
as a contrast, Motte has a WHIP of 1.06 and an ERA under 3
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions
That is beautiful...
but I hope Springer rebounds
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 4, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like he had a rough May
Cause I know he was doing excellent at the beginning of the season
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
I had him on two of my fantasy teams, he was doing so well that I didn’t bother to check up on him for a while. might explain my precipitous drop.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He was lucky when he was here
and I, for one, didn’t think his skillset was likely to repeat with another great year this time round. He just stopped giving up HR on flyballs for two years, pretty much (although his K/BB improved a bit, he didn’t suddenly become Mariano Rivera overnight, after a mediocre career). I was glad we didn’t give him, like, $5m or something.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Braden Looper, on the other hand...
wouldn’t have minded signing him again
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Looper hasn't even been replacement level this year
ie Not as good as Puppy Kicker
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
ah
guess I was under the wrong impression.
yup, .275 babip and not a very good fwhip
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Looper, Thompson, Pinero
are all really the same pitcher. I would just keep the cheapest one and buy a bat.
superstition alert
I’m dropping Ankiel from my fantasy team, he will now start hitting
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
Awesome. Question:
I have a 2006 WS highlight DVD, commentated by Billy Bob Thornton. Any reason why? Is he from StL?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Yeah
CNNSI: Q&A w/ Billy Bob Thornton
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
clip
SI: Baseball is a big part of your fabric. How did you become a Cardinals fan? Thornton:The farm club for the Cardinals, the Arkansas Travelers, played in Little Rock, where I grew up. I saw a lot of people coming through there. Keith Hernandez. Jose Cruz. We were just all Cardinals fans because we didn’t have a our own major league team, so St. Louis was the closest one to us and our farm club was there. Everybody in Arkansas is a Cardinals fan.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome, thanks.
I especially liked the part talking about the Cardinals’ eyes and the Sox’ winning spirit.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Yep
I’m from Little Rock originally….most people are Cards fans there. Watching the late 80’s, early 90’s guys was amazing…Zeile, Gilkey, the one and only Geronimo Pena.
half my family lives in Arkansas
Billy Bob is actually from the town my grandparents live in, Malvern, 30 min south of Little Rock. i might find myself in the LR area soon if things don’t turn around here in ohio.
most are in fact Cards fans. but not all the cable companies have FSNMW which sucks.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
damn
wish I was at home watching that!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This season is starting to wear on me.
This team is too frustrating to watch this year, I’m tired of watching guys play positions they can’t handle. I’m tired of a billion relievers and MIFers. I’m tired of no rehab stints after going on the DL. I’m tired of seeing Colby and Ludwick Benched. I’m tired of hearing Holliday’s name.
Still, I believe somehow June will be a good month for the Cards.
I just try to think of how awesome we'd be if things went how they're supposed to, dadgummit!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
I must admit I kinda feel the same
we’ve been tied or one game out of first for much of the last fortnight, and yet I don’t feel anywhere near as positive about this team as I did with ouor (inferior) team at about this time last year. Maybe I’m getting old…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, everyone, just to put it out there:
this is a really good thread. You want to get someone to join VEB, just point them toward this.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
I am curious how VEB compares to other SB Nation Blogs
It seems like every day we have 400 posts on the blog before the game thread even starts. The quality seems to be pretty good for the most part.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly VEB is the best internet community I have ever been part of
I have been on the internet since my 9600 Baud modem suffering BBS’s
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh I remember when I upgraded to a 56K modem
My god it was fast. I was dominating at quake.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I too remember those days
going onto BBS with Telex, looking for 256 color pr0n
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not a big fan of the eleventy billion trade proposals
but otherwise, I agree.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1 on that
Seriously people don’t even propose anything that hasn’t been talked to death. I like fanposts that at least bring something to the table or if you are going to talk about something that has already been discussed heavily. At least add some stats and additional info to localize the talks
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, those can be annoying
but Flim’s post, my post, my other post :), Felonious’ post, Giveml’s post are all well though out and generally add something new to the table.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
Yes
but I think a lot of these are people that just haven’t been here and aren’t sure how to get involved. And there’s not near as many of those here as there are at some of the other SBNation blogs that I look at every few days or so.
I would rather have eleventy billion trade proposals as long as they aren’t eleventy billion trade proposals about how we should go get Matt Holliday.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
agreed & approve
i’m sick of the holliday trades. let. it. die.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 4, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You just know as soon as we stop talking about it
MO’s gonna make that trade and the shockwaves from the collective VEB faceplant will irreparably damage Busch Stadium’s foundation.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
I know trades are going to happen this season
I can almost guarantee it. I have been meaning to make a fan post of it but we have over 50+ guys that are going to be exposed to the Rule 5 draft with less than 10 spots open by next season.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
After the viva's fanpost about roster management the other day
I’m working on the same type of thing. Want to combine resources?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
the Adam Dunn trade, however
I could live with
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
the trade proposals are rather pointless
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade talk is fine with me I guess, but I’ll be damned if I don’t see a prospect-for-dude trade every time I look which doesn’t consider any or all of the following:
- the potential cost savings of a controlled prospect (e.g. pay 400k, get 20M in performance)
- the fact that the acquisition still needs to be paid (it might be market rate or worse)
- for better or worse, they’ll be around for their contract length (e.g. a few months or 4+ years)
So…WALLACE FOR PEAVY??
By far the best online community I've been a part of
Very few trolls here that just flame for any ol’ reason, which is just fine by me.
Arguments backed up by evidence supporting them, statistical analysis, and just overall great knowledge about the game, it’s history, and the Cardinals in general.
Just wish that pesky lboros would show up a little more often around here. I miss his posts a lot, even though I think that DanUp does a great job.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I wish larry would even say hi more just in comments
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
True
We all know he’s reading because he does chime in occasionally. His work for the Maple Street deal was great this year though.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
The post count here isn't the thing
it’s the quality.
BCB has 700 posts before 9am, esp. if, for instance, a rookie pitcher has a no hitter through seven, then the closer and the “OMG HE’s AWSUM” guy who everyone thinks SHOULD be a closer blows a 4 run lead (including walking in a run), then they lose in extra innings and I’m cheering the TV set.
But I digress.
Heh heh heh
You’re right, I hate the Cubs!
Wait… what were we talking about?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
A lot of the credit goes to you guys: The Moderators
You put up quality stuff every day we can comment on. But also you don’t really impose rules on the board. I went over to Lookout Landing and put up an OT: Topic in the main thread about Beltre. Than was scolded for talking about something other than the main thread topic.
I think things should just unfold and let OT things develop. It creates good board chemistry something that can’t really shown by stats. Now honestly though we seem to be blessed by the lack of complete idiots for the most part.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Original credit on that one goes to Larry.
He always took a remarkably hands-off approach to the blog, letting it take care of itself, unless something went really, really wrong. I don’t know about the other mods, but I’ve always tried to carry forward that laissez-faire attitude, rather than control what everyone is talking about.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we are lucky we are Saint Louis Cardinals fan
Cause that is where a lot of comes from, imo. This town just loves baseball.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
so larry is like the ayn rand of the intertubes?
the INVISIBLE HAND has made this thread great!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I completely resent that.
I am, in fact, an, idiot.
if you can’t trust a southern lawyer cooking a kosher meal in a dumpster,
well, then, the world has grown far too cynical
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 4, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But are you a COMPLETE idiot?
Regular idiots are encouraged around here. They have been letting me post for years.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
complete idiot
Needs to have a deep GIF library for every situation
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
From Lookout Landing
He used to comment here once in a while and has a shit ton of Gifs.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
still sneaks into threads at BtB. smart guy.
i like our visitors. sky and harry have good contributions.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
You should hang out at BtB more
Great place for general baseball discussion
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
No GIF's for me
I just do half ass Photo Chops to whore out for recs.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always liked how daily threads here are sort of a combination of
“topic(s) of the day” and “mostly but not entirely baseball-focused interweb hang-out”. It’s a fun place to waste (way too much) time during the day.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
If he were to get his GED, would he have to wait for the draft?
Per MLBTR (too long for block?)
Bryce Harper, 16-Year-Old Phenom
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 4 at 10:15am CST]
Tom Verducci of SI.com introduces us to a 16-year-old so tantalizing multiple MLB scouting directors say he would be a top-five pick if eligible for this year’s draft. Bryce Harper, a high school sophomore, has drawn comparisons to Justin Upton, Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr.. The entire article’s worth reading, but here are some of the reasons Harper’s attracting so much attention:
He hit the longest home run in Tropicana Field history, at 502 feet.
He’s reportedly hit balls as far as 570 feet.
His throws have been clocked at 96 mph.
He’s fast enough to have scored from second on six wild pitches this year.
Scott Boras is one of Harper’s advisers, so look for big demands once he’s drafted. That won’t likely happen until 2011, but his parents would like Harper to be available in next year’s draft. It would be hard not to think highly of your skill if you were labeled the “LeBron James of baseball,” and Harper has no shortage of ambition.
He wants to reach the majors by the time he’s 18 or 19.
Among his goals: “to be in the Hall of Fame” and to “be considered the greatest baseball player of all time.”
sidenote
That’s a good baseball name.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Sounds like
a soap-opera name.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Man I bet that kid
is having a LOT more fun in high school than I did, if you know what I mean.
Is there any truth to that old line..
That aluminum bats turn singles into doubles, but one can actually hit a HR farther with a solid wood bat?
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Don't know,
but it shouldn’t be true. The additional weight of the wood bat would help, but the lighter weight of the aluminum bat would allow for faster swing speeds, and the superior surface hardness of the bat in question should generate a higher coefficient of restitution.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
I would think it’s just a lot easier to generate more force from increasing velocity rather than increasing mass (F = ma). Think about the space shuttle; all it took was a piece of foam to damage it, it was just traveling a crazy speed. I know this is sloppy science but the principle is still sound I think.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
+1
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Exit speed of most aluminum bats
is around 5-10 mph faster than it would be with a traditional wood bat. They’ve been trying to adapt metal bats so that the exit speeds are the same and it’s getting close. It’s still not the same as a wood bat — you can still muscle a ball off the handle for a base hit where that ball would shatter a wood bat, but it’s getting better.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i think COR
has more to do with the trampoline effect of the surface, no the hardness. so the ability to flex and return to ready-state quickly would create more velocity.
SI says his bat speed
is over 100mph. NOw, that’s probably with aluminum.
I'm sure that it is
but the thing is that the aluminum bats nowadays have a 3 ounce weight difference just like the wood bats that most big leaguers used, and this kid is only 16. If he’s got a 100 mph batspeed with aluminum right now, he’s probably going to have around that with wood as an 18 or 19 year old I would bet.
Also, from the batting cage pictures, it looks like he trains and hits BP with wood.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
according to a study of home runs at the International Power Showcase by Greg Rybarcyzk, the metal bats produced about 10% more distance than their wood counterparts.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, thats huge.
Twss. Wood might have more mass, but its not better. TWSS.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Sorry, "The Office" humor. Got turned on to Michael Schur after reading FJM.
twss.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I know what it is
I was responding to TheBirds comment
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
Good thing they allow idiots here, oops
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
OK, judging by those comparisons
I’m gonna go ahead and assume this kid is African American?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Nope.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I am stunned
Of course now that I google the guy I remember who he is.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
Some words, and some video.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Jun 4, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how the thread got really quiet
and everyone went to go watch the video.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
Yeah, I remember that video now
I see with my eyes that Bryce Harper is a baseball player, I don’t need no stinking numbers to prove it!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
That is some serious bat speed
and he’s got the timing device with his front foot that keeps his weight back until his hands are already coming forward. That’s going to make him awful tough to fool on breaking pitches I would think.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Just keep him
off of locomotives and away from loose women.
And no playing catch in tall grass at a county fair either!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What..........
Oh I see what you did there
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
After watching the video
wow…that is some serious bat speed.
Just let the kid play, man!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
my opinion is that JED will make the HOF
he’ll be remembered for all the nice sensational plays, doing well in the playoffs, hitting home runs, etc.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions
whether he should or not is another question
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll have the answer for you in a little bit
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
So that McCutchen kid for Pittsburgh can FLY...
Just what we needed, an even better version of Nyjer “I fucking own the Cardinals” Morgan in their lineup…
V, b.
OT: Organizing a VEB get together
I just wanted to hear some feedback. I was going to try to organize a VEB get together in August. I have a free hotel room on August 15th and I know a few other VEBer’s signed up on that deal that for a free hotel I posted than. I was going to wait it was a little closer to put up a fanpost about it. I am rather cheap so I was going to post how to get best the hotel rates for that date for others. I figured we all could go the night game on the 15th than go the day game the next day. We can get tickets for the day after on the 16th cheap if we all show early and get the 550 deal, Two grab bag tickets for $11
Stat Whore
P.S I was also going to design a new VEB T-Shirt before than
Not a fan of the current one (no offense)
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I've a
been meaning to write the sequel to this post the last two weeks.
If you want it, though, it’s all yours.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
I never even saw that thread
I thought about the all inclusive part but for some reason that day is more expensive
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Wish I wasn't all the way on the east coast...
That sounds like quite the night. On the flip side, if anyone is going to be in NY in a couple weeks for the Mets series, round one is on me.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I would appreciate any help
But I would very much trying to do it as much as possible on the cheap side so as many people could go as possible. I could probably find hotels room for under $60(including tax) each for everyone else. I know my room will be huge though. It is a King Sized bed plus a couch and a whole another room. It is the largest room at the Wyndham Mayfair.
Tickets I would try to do on the cheap also. I know their is a lot of buy one get one free promotions out there. I also know a promotion by Mobil where you can win free club room tickets for the 15th. I figure if we all enter at least one of us will win that too.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Scoreboard patio for that game are $108 a piece
Some people (like me) see all-inclusive as more of a challenge than anything, and always get their moneys worth.
I’d be interested to know if anyone has a connection to group sales, though.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
I would totally prefer if we had an area to ourselves
In this economy though I know people would think anything $100 would be a lot of money
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I have been to only one game in Box seats
It just happened to be greatest WPA performance of Pujols career (3HR’s vs Cincy on Easter)
I am a fan of unlimited booze and food. Especially in August when it can get hot as hell.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I can go through 50 bucks worth of beer and nachos by the 5th inning.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
seriously? probably the first. I like getting there as soon as the gates open.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I'm in for that if others are
for sure.
I usually make it down to a game in August every single year, so it might as well be with the VEB crew, at least then I’ll get some intelligent baseball conversation.
One suggestion though: If you’re going to make T-Shirts, how about allowing us to customize them with a screenname printed on the back like a jersey? That would be kinda sweet in a high school club type of way, at least we’d know who everyone was.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I thought about that
Or just putting Viva El Birdos on the back with the numbers 67
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
or simply put a Nametag built into the shirt
Where everyone could simply write in their name. A little crude but would be easier than customization
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, For those in Missouri but not in Saint Louis
I know Amtrak is running 50% off rates for in state travel
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I am really curious how everyone is like in real life
I am about as goofy
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm about
as bitchy.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
I will still argue with just about anyone if I think I have a point...
but a lot less so when I’m drinking….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I'm much shorter in real life
And just as clever.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
i'm even more sexy & briliant in real life
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Hard to be less.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
to each their own
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
you would
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
That’s the opposite of me. I hate arguing sober, but I’ll do it drunk
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
we should start some sort of business
like maybe a law firm or something…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I guess I'll take the cases that can't be won
You’ll take the cases that can be. My argument will be (as drunk me) “Either you’re for or against us, terrorist.” That will win maybe 30% of my cases
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
I'm about as random
who is going to organize this VEB day on Aug. 15th, anyway
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I will put together intial Fanpost soon
For different ticket ideas and hotels. Their is a lot of promotions out there that I would like to get feedback. I don’t pay full price for anything and would like to get tickets for at least half off.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds great!
keep us fanposted
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
so apparently
Troy Glaus is reporting that he feels worse now than he did before having the surgery
that sounds like good news
not
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
My tea leaves told me this would happen
And so far, this method has been more accurate than trusting anything we’ve been getting from the organization, injury wise.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 4, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
somebody greater than pujols?
sorry about link, just copy and paste. Am I the last person to hear about this kid
Look up
We are having a full blown discussion about him
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently today you are
We were all just reading about him and discussion him above. The SI story by Verducci is eye opening.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
dude
he’s 16 yo
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Goold is reporting Boyer DFA'ed
from Twitter:
Blaine Boyer’s 5 innings of labor had that Brad Thompson feel to it. Pitch until your spent, pack for Memphis the next day. Boyer DFA’d.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
wow! we turned a legitimate ML OF into 15 innings of crap!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Seems like a Dick move to me
I don’t understand it
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that is the most informative post of Joe Strauss career
The Cardinals have designated reliever Blaine Boyer for assignment in order to make roster room for just-promoted reliever Jess Todd. The move falls the day after Boyer worked three innings in Wednesday’s 9-3 loss to the Cincinnati Reds.
Boyer, acquired from the Atlanta Braves in April for outfielder Brian Barton, had no remaining options. The Cardinals have seven days to release, trade or attempt to pass Boyer through waivers. Boyer can either accept an assignment or request free agency.
Manager Tony La Russa indicated the club will likely disable starting pitcher Kyle Lohse. La Russa indicated Brad Thompson would inherit Lohse’s turn in the rotation Monday against the Colorado Rockies. Because infielder Joe Thurston is soon expected to leave the club for 2-3 days to attend the birth of he and his wife’s child, the club is expected to at least temporarily promote an infielder to Lohse’s roster spot. Shortstop Tyler Greene and Joe Mather, once considered this spring the leader in the clubhouse as opening day third baseman, are leading candidates to receive that promotion.
Joel Pineiro just completed his first bullpen session since experiencing acute back spasms last week in San Francisco. A determination is pending on his status for this weekend.
The Cardinals will attempt to gain a split tonight in their four-game series against the Reds with the following lineup:
2B Skip Schumaker
CF Colby Rasmus
1B Albert Pujols
RF Ryan Ludwick
LF Rick Ankiel
C Yadier Molina
3B Joe Thurston
P Chris Carpenter
SS Brendan Ryan
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
except boyer didn't pitch three innings yesterday
he pitched five
and this really makes the trade for boyer look terrible. boggs/walters/todd/mortensen/hawksworth/kinney could have easily filled the 16.1 innings he pitched for the cards.
I'm really thinking
that there was some issue with Barton
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Barton has like .550 OPS so far this year
Not exactly lighting the world on fire
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Tony can't have someone with more degrees than him in the dugout?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Gah
Why not just DL Lohse now and bring up an extra bat? It’s like they think we get extra points for winning with a short bench.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
I heard LaRussa is going to just go with 24 guys on the roster to prove a point that he can
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He's already done that for 2 weeks...
does he really need to prove it that much more?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
What in the holy hell is going on?
This literally makes no sense at all unless they think he’s actually going to pass waivers. We’ve now burnt an option on Jess Todd and Shane Robinson when we could have just called up Barton and given Thompson all of Boyer’s innings. Why is Todd getting promoted now, why can’t they just wait on Lohse being DL’d to call him up?
I can understand Thurston leaving and stuff and that wouldn’t be near as much of a problem if we weren’t already carrying 13 pitchers.
I hate to be glib, but maybe Soonerfan can explain this to me, because I do not understand WTF is going on with our roster anymore. Seriously, I’m not digging at you Sooner, but what possible reason would they have for this?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
you can't unmake past decisions; the FO should make the best decisions going forward
Barton ain’t walking through that door (thank jebus). Reyes ain’t walking in that door (ditto).
If the FO thinks the team will be better by having Todd in the bullpen, and by DFA’ing Boyer, then it should do so. If the team thinks Thompson is the best fill-in starter for Lohse, I’m ok with that.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 4, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's the thing though WMT
If you’re not going to give Boyer more than 15 mop up innings to prove that he’s the same guy he was when he was first called up, then you shouldn’t have traded away a useful player for him and then had to burn an option on a similarly talented young outfielder a week later.
I agree that you can’t unmake past decisions, but throwing good money after bad is one way to lose a lot more than you bargained for too.
We’ve now burnt player options on two potentially useful young players so that we could have Blaine Boyer throw 15 innings, run with 13 pitchers without using one for two weeks, and put more players on the 40 man when we’re already going to have issues with the 40 man roster after the offseason. In terms of developing useful, cheap talent, these are some really, really poor decisions in my view.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 4, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We just disagree on the premises of your argument
I am fine with the Boyer for Barton trade. First, Barton was a rule 5 castoff (the other team didn’t even want him on their 40-man) that wasn’t hitting at all in AAA. He was what he was – an expendable, no-power corner outfielder who had reached his peak, which was really more of a molehill. So, we disagree that Barton was all that “useful.” I certainly don’t think he was any more “useful” than Stav, Robinson, or Mather (just listing other RH outfielders at Memphis).
Second, we’ve DFA’d Boyer but it doesn’t mean we’ve lost him completely (though we may have, time will tell). Boyer has got some talent (mid-90’s fastball and I’ve seen him break off some good curves). But if the FO thinks Boyer has a better chance of making it through waivers (over, say, PK) then you drop Boyer. I’m fine with PK over Boyer – the FO should not keep Boyer simply because they just got him if they feel that PK is better than Boyer now (i.e. it’s like sunk costs).
Lastly, about burning options, I don’t know that I care. Did Todd or Robinson have to be put on the 40-man at the end of this year anyway? If so, I don’t know that we’ve created any more issues than what already existed. It’s not like Robinson (who is fungible) is Colby and we want to keep him from arbitration or something. And if Todd deserves a call-up because the FO thinks he can pitch better than Boyer and help the team win games, then I’m fine with burning his option — that’s what options are there for (in fact, I agree, I think Todd is a better bet to help this team win games the rest of this year).
In any event, you just take as objective fact things that I don’t agree with (which is fine, btw). For example:
I don’t know that it takes more than 16 innings (and all the bullpen sessions) to figure out what Boyer has got. And I certainly don’t want to lose games figuring it out just because he was traded for an utterly fungible commodity like Barton.
I don’t think that “burning” Shane Robinson’s option was bad. I like Shane but he’s a 5th outfielder/pinch runner/defensive replacement etc. No loss.
I don’t see where the Cards are throwing good money after bad.
I’m fine with burning player options if it helps the team win more games – I don’t assess that not burning those options (like, say, with Colby) was worth much, if anything.
I don’t see where the Cards are not developing useful, cheap talent.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 4, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Silver Lining Dept: Love the lineup
2B Skip Schumaker
CF Colby Rasmus
1B Albert Pujols
RF Ryan Ludwick
LF Rick Ankiel
C Yadier Molina
3B Joe Thurston
P Chris Carpenter
SS Brendan Ryan
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
That's my favorite lineup. Good times.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 4, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too, esp. with Carp.
Ank and Dunc is pick your poison
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I'm an Ank fan so I'm fine with Dunc sitting
Dunc should be a backup 1b, DH in interleague, pinch hitter, and occasional LF when someone else NEEDS a break. Colby, Ank, and Lud should be starting every day – that’s a great defensive outfield and, while Rick is slumping (as are many right now), I think he’ll start hitting better soon (can’t hit much worse).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 4, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
at least Ank plays better D
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Brian Barden is so dehydrated, he can't cry anymore
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 4, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sit Ank, start Dunc
and I love this lineup…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Me too.
At least Dunc gets on base.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Even in LF?
Hmm…
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Sounds good.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Luddy's in LF?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
fer sher
He’s -10 in center, but left is a crapload easir to play
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
I don't think
he makes anything look easy. His routes are basically zig-zags.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Beautiful
That’s my favorite lineup this year. Perfect symmetry.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
You know, it's not like we could use Brian Barton right now
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
be serious. there's no room for a right-handed outfielder with an ops over .400.
or should i say wOBA(?(wubba-wubba??)) over .280. or whatever.
who can hit.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
indeed
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The value we've now gotten for Anthon Reyes and Brian Barton is staggering.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
A Rule 5 guy traded for a DFA
and an inkured SP traded for a Rule 5 loss.
Circle of life. And roster spots.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
What was the value of keeping them?
By the time he was traded, Reyes had little value and he hasn’t changed my mind on that with the Indians.
Also, let’s see if Boyer leaves via FA before we say anything. He may have a “deal” to accept assignment so that Dunc can work his magic on him and he can be a starter next year.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 4, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
We took the guy we got for him
and gave him away.
His value was literally nothing. I have a hard time believing any player not named Rico Washington has a value of nothing.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
My point was that Reyes and Barton didn't have "staggering" values...
so the fact that we now have nothing isn’t all that big of a loss. Also, I’m not going to say (yet) that we have nothing to show for Barton because we haven’t completely lost Boyer yet.
5th outfielder/corner outfielders who’ve reached their peak with little power (like Barton) just don’t have much currency (and he wasn’t hitting at all when he was traded). I liked him as a person and player but he’s a dime-a-dozen guy.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 4, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Reasons I like Twitter, #27:
boxcar_fritz@dgoold any word on who replaces him?
MatthewHLeach@boxcar_fritz Todd.
boxcar_fritz@MatthewHLeach So Lohse isn’t going on the DL?
MatthewHLeach@boxcar_fritz Not yet. Soon. Story to come. Lots of machinations.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
"machinations?" makes it sound like cardinal richelieu is running the FO.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 4, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was not a fan of Twitter
until I saw that Tony LaRussa told it to get off his lawn. Now I’m intrigued.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I am relatively new to the intricacies of roster management and transaction rules..
but I’ll be damned if any of this makes an ounce of sense.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
It doesn't
although someone around here looks around
MIGHT spend 10,000 words trying to explain it to me….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I bet we get something back for Boyer
He is not that horrible. Someone will want him enough to make a trade for him. Maybe we can get a Barton equivalent back
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
nice
waste of barton
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What the fuck?!?
So, in the last year we’ve managed to have, at one time or another, Reyes, Barton, Perdomo, Tyler Herron, Brian Barton, and Boyer, and now we’ve given them all away for jack shit?
If this is true, that Barton deal was a complete joke. What the hell are they doing?
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
paging soonerfan
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever they want.
Since nobody holds them accountable or asks questions.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you packaged all those guys together...what might you get?
I’m going to start the bidding with a solar-powered calculator, a stapler (but no staples), and a package of yellow sticky notes.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 4, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
700+ comments for a daily thread
Nice going, VEB!
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
What is more impressive is that
It is mostly baseball related
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
overflow pregame, i can get on board that train
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Get Chrome
and you’ll never be begging for an overflow thread again…
Thank me later Alex…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I'm on firefox and it's smooth as ice
Just joking about the traffic.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
Firefox is buggy with me on VEB
Chrome is smooth though
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
For IE users
which IE 8 is supposed to fix…or so they tell me.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
well if you are still using IE
dont you deserve a laggy thread anyway =]
by FunkeeC on Jun 4, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
some people don't have a choice at work though
because Microsoft is an evil company and apparently most businesses have yet to understand the awesomeness of a free browser.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
About once a day I have an issue at work
which could be resolved by our customers switching to ff, but they’re not allowed to. it’s infuriating.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
very true
we still use IE 6 here at work and many work related sites dont work well without it. but being the nerd i am, i have installed FF for personal browsing….
IE6 needs to be taken out back and shot
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is pre-tabs
Browsing the internet was horrible pre-tabs
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I love tabbed browsing so much
I want to take it behind the middle school and get it pregnant!
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damn I love that show.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 4, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wish I could rec these last two comments more than once
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 4, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How did I ever surf the net without it?
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Several years ago,
a buddy of mine used to make fun of me for having 10 tabs open at once. Tabbed browsing has completely changed my internet experience. Now if Mozilla would only release a Fennec for BlackBerrys I’d be set.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
my work is just now getting IE 7
haven’t had tabs at my day job, it feels like it’s from 10 years ago or something
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
i use FF too
and at about 700 comments everything starts to slow down
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
It is much better at home
but I’m on a mac here and a citrix client at work, so that’s not surprising.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
i've used chrome and FF
chrome seems to work best. But Im on a very crappy laptop with a 802.11b connection. I need the overflows
I'm using Iron
very nice
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I left this thread a couple of hours ago
then just came back to look through new posts. As fast as I was scrolling down and posting the odd reply, more comments were being added at the bottom and I wasn’t actually getting anywhere. Like the King Canute of blogging. Or something.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys can thank me for Todd's promotion
my sister is in OK City this weekend, and is going to the game tomorrow night. Of course she was going to get me an autograph from Todd, and it was going to say "be careful, or jess Todd will destroy VEB ".
I am only slightly upset at his promotion.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Thurston is going to be gone a few games soon
his wife is expecting any day now.
Pineiro suffering from back spasms still.
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
err, negative on that Pineiro comment, I read it wrong
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
I suck at reading
this was all already posted, please ignore
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
Can't she just give birth at the stadium?
The Cardinals have a great medical staff
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Her child would sadly be given a clean bill of health
only to find itself in and out of the pediatricians office for the next 3 years.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
RJ is 4 innings away from #300
Giants up 2-0
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
all 300 people at Nationals stadium are chanting Randy
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
and Renteria with a throwing error
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
and it comes back to bite him in the ass after a double by Nick Johnson
the game is on MLB Network for those who want to watch
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
with all the stuff going on, it's nice to see FSNMW pregame has their priorities straight
yes, by all means lets talk about BP & not the shitty roster management.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
wrong actually
They brought him up yesterday and sent him back down already today
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like their roster management is about as good as ours
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The difference?
They traded for an All-Star outfielder to replace Barton. We called up Shane Robinson…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
"All Star"
is used pretty loosely in his case, to be fair.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 4, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
At least their minor league team is like a 30 minute drive away
Their AAAA guys wouldn’t ever have to move
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Congrats RJ on #300
Even if you were a pretty big asshole by all accounts throughout your career
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
by Cuttah on Jun 4, 2009 7:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He won't even smile for #300
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
did you know you stole spants sig?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
I did not
I usually don’t read other peoples sigs. But I will change it
TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."
You don't need to change it.
Carp is awesome.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 4, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
24th player ever to reach 300 wins
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
first one to punch a cameraman immediately after?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Already found a way to get $20 off tickets, $1 Big mack land tickets, and $50 All Inclusive tickets
Stat Whore
How are you so awesome?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Actually it is $50 off so some are as low as $38
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I will post details in the game day thread so it doesn't get lost away
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
that is fricking awesome
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Because I got skills
So easy to hack away
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 4, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure
We really need one too, We are close to 900 comments
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone should just make a fanpost
I am currently too lazy
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 4, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
THERE IS NO GAME THREAD
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
What's worse than Dan and Al?
Rick Horton and Al. Seriously, we don’t even have a play-by-play guy…
V, b.
I was thinking that this duo is the worst ever provided by FSN
And not only that, it looks like Colby Rasmus is going to get torn a new one tonight. Put these two together…ugh
Brought to you by Karl's Jr.
Colby better not hit a HR the first time up
that will really tick em off
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
8 pitch inning for Carp
let’s go get some runs!
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