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Sometimes the other pitcher is just really, really good

San Francisco Giants starting pitcher Tim Lincecum is hungry like the wolf during the fifth inning of a baseball game Monday, June 29, 2009, in St. Louis. Lincecum threw a two-hitter in the Giants' 10-0 victory. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

More photos » by Jeff Roberson - AP

San Francisco Giants starting pitcher Tim Lincecum is hungry like the wolf during the fifth inning of a baseball game Monday, June 29, 2009, in St. Louis. Lincecum threw a two-hitter in the Giants' 10-0 victory. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

Nothing to be done—it's not often a game that seems so lopsided at the start, featuring a slumping team and a lopsided pitching matchup et cetera, actually ends up so lopsided. Brad Thompson seems like the ideal underdog in this kind of thing; he's not much but he's rarely beaten into the ground, and even in tonight's game he, uh, minimized the damage, to the extent of his abilities. Too many singles, an enormous home run, but just one walk; in another configuration that might not be four runs. 

But the Cardinals would still lose. I hate to mention the no-hitter, but Lincecum's having a just-about-perfect season so far. His ESPN season projection: 35 starts, 246 innings, 285 strikeouts, 60 walks, nine home runs. That's right: style guide rules dictate that I spell out the number of home runs he allows in 246 innings. That's a good omen, unless he's stepping in against your team's stunned lineup. 

I don't profess to know who we'll still be talking about 20 years from now, certainly not when it comes to pitchers, but Lincecum looks the part. He's wholly unique as a character, from his little league mound presence to his wild Gashouse Gang delivery, but statistically he's a perennial—tons of strikeouts, no walks, no home runs. You can't ask for anything more than that. Like I said: I don't want to jinx it, but for the last year and a half he's pitched like a poor man's Pedro Martinez. Nothing this team could do about that. 

After the jump: Mark DeRosa energizes the team, Clayton Mortensen has a bad day, and in a very special episode Joe Thurston reveals that he suffers from baselexia, and has been hiding it all along because he didn't think the gang would understand (even though they really do!) 

Star-divide

DeRosa's leaping catch, sandwiched between standing ovations two and three on his first night in curtain call country, requires me to invoke the exceptions-proving-the-rule clause of sportswriter stubbornness. That beautiful play aside, he's currently 0-7 in two unattractive Cardinals losses since the team fed Chris Perez into the Miklasz Care-o-meter. Of course this means nothing, and of course nobody thinks it does. Which is a fine way to start writing about a subject. 

Anyway, it seems like we're very open, as a rule, to glossing over early failings to help an Energizing Trade narrative along; if the Cardinals struggle for another two weeks and then take off we'll still happily credit it to DeRosa's account, is all I'm saying. It's a good thing that we do, too, because otherwise season recaps would be considerably less interesting. 

Our last Energizing Trade is almost too recent for me to recap—it's Jeff Weaver, riding in to save the day by not pitching all that well and then finally pitching pretty well in the playoffs. It was a different trade than this one, to be sure; it could be lauded because it was low risk, converting two good months from toolsy Terry Evans into a starting pitcher, and derided because it was low reward. But it was made with the same idea in mind, the new blood at a rough spot kick-starting a moribund team. Here's Some Blog on the occasion of the trade:

it does not strain the imagination to suggest that weaver might come in here, make 16 starts, turn in 9 or 10 quality starts and win 7 games. none of the cardinals' competitors in the division is likely to add a better pitcher than that; in what currently looms as a tight three- or four-way race for the division, weaver has a chance to make a real difference.

and then on August 3, after Weaves and the Cardinals got blitzed 16-8 by the Phils, midway through one of their famous multi-game losing streak:

i've seen all i need to of weaver; the experiment failed. he was worth a look, but these early blowouts sap morale, and the cards appear to have reached the limit of theirs. weaver's next turn comes monday in cincinnati, the first game of an important series; the cardinals simply can't afford to send him out there.

common sense dictates that his slot should go to wainwright, but it remains la russa's policy to run other, less competent pitchers out there.

(That last sentence is irrelevant, but I left it in because it's classic lboros x-acto knife prose. My rendition of that thought would require three sentences, eleven em-dashes, and a day-late qualification of my earlier position.)

As we know, here in the future, the Cardinals sent Weaver back out there, and he had his best start of the season, striking out seven in six innings to run the team's modest winning streak to three games. Then they got blown out 10-3. (That just was not a team that could Get Started—it was tuned for frustration, a lot like this one.)

Weaver didn't get the team going; one guy doesn't turn a mediocre team into one capable of meteoric winning streaks. But they went 8-7 when he started, and he replaced Sidney Ponson, who had not appeared in a game the Cardinals won since the end of May at that point. Weaver didn't pitch long enough to make quality starts, but even what he did, improbably as he did it, was enough to make that real difference. The Cardinals won the division by a game and a half. 

Weaver and DeRosa and everybody this side of Will Clark can't make a team win eight in a row for the Gipper, or get everyone into shape with a well-placed montage. But if they play better than the mess they replace, and the division's close enough, they can certainly take the credit for it. I won't blame them. 

#

Does someone want to explain this at-bat to Gameday? 

SPD BRK PFX PITCH RESULT
89 7" 12" Fastball Called Strike
86 8" 5" Changeup Swinging Strike
87 7" 7" Changeup Ball
87 7" 4" Changeup Foul
91 7" 11" Fastball Stop doing that!

Juan Uribe homers (2) on a fly ball to left field.

There's Mortensen's problem, right there: 89 mile an hour fastball, 86 mile an hour changeup(?), consecutive pitches. To make things worse, 49 of his 50 pitches were classified as either fastball (ranging from 89 to 93) or changeup (ranging from 82 to 86). Some—maybe even most—of those pitches were probably sliders, but few of them did much of what Dizzy Dean would call sludding, and when they weren't the change of speeds wasn't enough to throw anybody off the scent. (His two strikeouts were against Pablo Sandoval, who will swing at anything and in that at-bat did, and Andres Torres, who swung at two of the worst consecutive pitches I have ever seen a non-pitcher wave at.)

I'm not about to judge a guy on one outing, but he's 24 right now, and the idea when the Cardinals reached for him back in 2007 was that he was only a few years away from shoring up the bottom of the rotation on the cheap. Back then I whined about the bizarre tactic of intentionally drafting back-of-the-rotation guys, who usually seem to show up, uninvited, on their own accord, and I'm still worried about the efficacy of that idea when I see Mortensen now. Now's the time the Cardinals were preparing for when they drafted him; hopefully he's ready for it. 

#

Bill James Online's main draw is getting to read The Man Himself write incisively and accurately about all things baseball once or twice a week, but it has a sideline in exotic statistics, and one of them attempts to quantify how many bases a player adds or subtracts from the team till by virtue of his baserunning. It passes the first rule of statistical thumb: the players who you would expect to be really good at it are really good at it. 

Scott Rolen, for example—here we take off our hats for a moment of solemn reverence—he's really good at it. This year he's taken twelve extra bases and made just two extra outs. In 2004, when he was at the height of his powers, he took nineteen and was only caught once, for a grand total of 26 bases the average runner wouldn't be expected to have. 

Joe Thurston, for example—he's really not good at it. He's a daring, speedy baserunner; he's taken eight extra bases so far, and gone from second to home four times out of six chances. He Makes Things Happen, and if he had just kept his head down and done that he would still be assembling a cult utility-infield following. But he's already made five outs that the average baserunner wouldn't be expected to make. The final analysis rates him, already, at -6; Bill James Online sadly does not allow anti-leaderboards, but I'd be hard-pressed to think of anybody who weighs less than 270 pounds who would already be in that range. 

It would be exciting if his outs came in the course of, well, Making Things Happen, but the weird thing is that just the opposite is true; they come on some of the most mundane plays imaginable, plays in which baserunning risk is the last thing on anybody's mind, up to and including the team playing defense.

His last gaffe was probably not game-altering—let's not humor ourselves, Joe Nathan was coming in—and it was almost excusable, coming as it did after LaRue and Oquendo had a sign mixup. But it just wasn't a situation in which you expect a major league baseball player to even be threatened, and that is what makes it so unspeakably frustrating to see it playing out over and over. I've just never seen anything like it. 

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Backe is dreadful

at least weaver has some talent.

Backe’s only talent is as a punchbag for albert. Which is kinda cool, though…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

what he said.

by kyle3776 on Jun 30, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GOTTA

agree what was it 17 strike outs the other night in triple A?

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Jun 30, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes it was

And now there’s no way we’d get him, being in-division rivals and him being all strikey-outey and whatnot.

by mojowo11 on Jun 30, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed the to no-no in terms of trading potential game changing players within the division,

regardless of how bad they are performing. Does Brad Penny sound at all reasonable? I heard the BoSox aren’t as interested in trading him as they were a couple weeks ago, due to his recent good pitching and the question marks surrounding Smoltz. Do you guys think this would be a good pick up that wouldnt cost too much?

by sleeple55 on Jun 30, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't this the spot

where someone makes the obligatory “Ben Sheets” comment?

by Anonymous Communist on Jun 30, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe

by gocards62 on Jun 30, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Troy Glaus!

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

a thought about Weaver the elder

Cards fail to pull come-from-behind win against Dodgers for pennant.
Dodgers win WS.
Jeff gets ring #2.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i could get used to a world where jeff weaver and so taguchi have two WS rings

and a-rod has none.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 30, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

YES.

Just found this in my cache.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 2, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BRINGING UP WEAVER

i actually wore my 2006 championship hat into work today, took alot of flack from the remaining and always cynical royals fans in my office for wearing it and of course they brought up the 85 world series…i have a blown up picture of the blown call at my desk as well as a pennant that says the cardinals won in 85 dont know where my parents got that one

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Jun 30, 2009 8:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That is truly awesome dude

the funny thing is… that I have always heard Royal’s fans talk about that series more than Cardinal fans complain about it. Of course that does not mean much considering my exposure to Royals and cardinal fans talking to each other about the 85 series. I was born in 86 so I have no memory of it. But my father who was born in Kansas City but grew up in St. Louis and had the prudence and wisdom to be a Red Bird faithful follower, talks about that series from time to time. But he hardly whines about it.

The Redbirds are of the highest priority to me... As it should be

by ANDYAK47 on Jun 30, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of the royals,

Has anyone seen the Youtube video royals by mail? INSTANT classic……

by sleeple55 on Jun 30, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would like to rec the caption for the picture.

Well done.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i laughed so hard

a little bit of coffee came out of my nose.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Jun 30, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

it made the loss sting a little less

by prophetjohn on Jun 30, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think "baselexia" merits a rec.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 30, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you all say you rec'd it, but i only see 1 rec

mmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As long as we trot out Welley and PK

we’re gonna lose two games per week.

Only scoring 2 RPG doesn’t give us much of a chance in the remaining three either.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe

by gocards62 on Jun 30, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Colonel and the Brad Wonder

Colonel: 88.2 IP/5.68 ERA/1.703 WHIP/111 H/11 HR
Wonder: 48 IP/4.69 ERA/1.271 WHIP/49 H/5 HR

I’m not, nor have I ever been, a big fan of Thompson, but lumping together with Colonel version 2009 is entirely unfair to the Boy Wonder. His ERA is nearly a full point better and his WHIP is 0.400 better. He has been a much better pitcher than Colonel and that is why he deserves to stay in the rotation once Lohse returns.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FIP

Wonderbrad: 4.77
Wellemeyer: 4.87

Not really a huge difference. I would take Welly going forward because he at least has had some success as a starter. Actually, I want Snell.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you have FIP for Thompson since he began starting?

I’d be interested to see that. I hesitated even posting the full Thompson line because he was horrible out of the ’pen and appears to be much more effective as a starter.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His career line as a starter, per Baseball Reference:

157.1 IP, 20 HR, 45 UIBB, 59 K, 13 HBP.

That translates to a 5.21 FIP.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you translate 2009?

While I agree that his career is more indicative of expected future performance, he hasn’t been all that horrendous this year. Or so it seems. That line, per ESPN.com, (which seem likely to make me stand corrected):

33.1 IP, 4 HR, 10 BB, 9 K, ?? HBP

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That translates to a 5.12 FIP

Could be more or less depending on intentional walks and hit batsmen.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, I was wrong.

And Welley was right. Or, something. Maybe those 111 hits allowed have taken such a toll on my subconscious that I can’t believe that the Colonel has pitched better than his ERA suggests? Allow me to wave the battle flag for sending WonderBrad to Memphis upon Lohse’s activation…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I look forward to the day

when the myth of Brad Thompson the starter officially dies. Brad Thompson should not be on this team next year. We have guys who can do his job just as well that won’t be getting arbitration money.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sure we do.

Garcia? out. Boggs? sucking at AAA. Mort? sucking with big club. Who’s left?

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really do like Boggs.

He was pretty impressive when he was up with the big club. I don’t know if it as hangover from being demoted or what, but he really hasn’t been very good since being sent down to AAA. Maybe a call-up would get his juices flowing again.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boggs was superior to Welley at the time of his demotion.

I hate that he is still down while PK and Welley have rotation spots.

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jun 30, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mort has one ML appearance

i don’t think it’s really fair to assess him yet

by prophetjohn on Jun 30, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Garcia

will return next season.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jun 30, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mort? really?

Glad he was given a fair shot before you decided he sucks

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the sheer obviousness of this post..

…I am going to rec this. Why oh why is this team bound and determined to keep Brad Thompson around? I know I know the team seems to win games behind him, but that logic is tired and stupid and frankly should just die one of these days.

Thompson has, for all intents and purposes, one real pitch. He throws some kind of crappy slutter kind of thing and flips a changeup in there here and there, but by and large he’s got a sinker. Only, that sinker does not sink with any kind of interesting sinkitude. We are not talking about a Roy Halladay or Brandon Webb or Derek Lowe bowling ball, or even a Joel Pineiro brick ball…we’re talking about a ball that simply dips some because it feels it has nothing better to do, or perhaps it is so afraid of the bat that it tries to get out of the way.

Said sinker does induce a fair number of grounders, probably because hitters are so overjoyed to see a 12 year old on the mound they forget to swing normally or something like that. This sinker and the combination of minus-secondary pitches has resulted in a pitcher who has a K-rate that is inspiring only in its remarkable uninspiring-ness.

  • Career: 4.10
  • 2009: 2.81(gah!)

This man simply refuses to miss bats. Now, he doesn’t walk people that much either, but because of his ultra pitch-to-contact ways his career FIP is every bit of 4.92. This man is utterly, completely, and otherworldly mediocre. Why must he be here? Is it inconceivable that Mitchell Boggs couldn’t do at least as well and perhaps better? Maybe not even Boggs…just some random dude? Brad Thompson, bless his heart, is not a ML caliber starting pitcher and should not, for any reason, take the roster spot of any of this organizations more talented arms. It’s not because Thompson is a bad man or horseshit or whatever…it’s just that he’s such a daggone known mediocrity, and I hate known mediocrities almost as much as I hate Joakim Noah or the weird infomercial dude who knows government programs and dresses like the Riddler.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   4 recs

rec'd.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jun 30, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the guy

I really have a strong negative reaction to him. No idea why.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because he is a fraud,

who preys on credulous fools and old people?

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jun 30, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is not all fraud

I have skimmed over his book before and saw some decent ideas. Your best bet is just to check it out at your library.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I must have been thinking of Ken Trudeau.

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jun 30, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mor flags!@ mor fun!@

that dude creeps me out. he looks like a creature from a horror film.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if they wanted an old man to be their new mascot

why didn’t they just get a real old man, instead of some dude in a bad getup?

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 30, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The most irritating athlete in the world...

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops.

I was trying to put a pic of Noah in that white suit on draft night making an ass of himself, but the pic was huge so I took it out…i also forgot to delete the post. Me fail.

Anyway here’s the link to the picture…JOAKIM BEING JOAKIM

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wanted to say this last night.....

But I wasn’t around until really late.

I’m not trying to pick a fight, or start a war, but the news we are getting on Colby and his stomach is EXACTLY the reason why it is lame to criticize the lineup on any given night. Not one person on this board, with all the connections and links to St. Louis and the ball team, mentioned anything being wrong with Colby, yet that has most likely been the reason he has missed some games recently.

We don’t know all the teams’ information on a day-to-day basis. Nobody does except those that run the team, and those that play on the team. I’m not trying to toot my own horn and say I was right, it isn’t about that. My entire point on the lineups is that we just don’t know everyday what is going on with injuries and illnesses. Ryan’s wrist played out the same way. And other injuries did earlier this year.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 30, 2009 9:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Which is why

after all the talk about transparency from the front office two years ago re: injuries after the non-stop Mulder, Rolen, Edmonds, and Carpenter disasters, the secrecy continues to frustrate many.

They devote a segment of the radio pregame to the injury report, and yet Colby’s condition, which has kept him out two games, was never mentioned. Nor was his ankle condition when that kept him out. Just not good PR in my book.

(also, Colby is rapidly turning into JD Drew.)

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Why let another team know that Colby can’t PH that day? Wouldn’t it be better…..on day-to-day type injuries, to keep the other team in the dark?

IMO, the FO doesn’t owe the fans or the media any explanation on injuries, until a guy hits the DL.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 30, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Colby still pinch hit

Replace the word “fans” with “customers” and I believe they do.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

but I am actually going to have to agree with Sooner on this one. Best thing for the fans is to win games. If you can deke the other manager into a favorable pitching matchup by trotting a guy into the on-deck circle who is actually too injured to hit, then that trumps everything else.

Of course, they do have a place for guys too injured to hit – I think it’s called the DL.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jun 30, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"DL? Is that Latin? I'm not sure what you're talking about..."

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

“Rasmus is day to day with an upset stomach, but is availble to pinch hit.”

Takes ten seconds to say and clears up everything.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe they should publicize the next pitch

that we are going to throw so fans arent “in the dark”…give me a break.

by UNCDubya on Jun 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apt comparison.

That is exactly the same thing.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jun 30, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

TLR's buddy Belichek always gets hit with this same sort of stuff...

I’m not a Patriots fan, but I certainly agree with his philosophy that the less the media and his opponents know about his players injury status the better. Sooner is right on this.

by VinegarBend on Jun 30, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate the JD Drew reference but I'll admit I'm concerned

about the way this injury is described. He’s “eating too late” and it “rests on his stomach” not to mention the word hernia has been thrown around. I just hope this isn’t something worse.

As far as complaining about lineups, I think we can still do that even if we later find out that a player’s hurt but the complaining needs to come with these injury caveats. That doesn’t really bother me. We’re fans — TLR certainly isn’t losing sleep over it.

My problem with La Russa is less about the day to day lineup and more about the poor lineup construction with horrible OBP guys batting in front of Albert on a regular basis and playing “hitters” who aren’t hitting rather than weaker hitters who are better defenders (i.e. Rick/Dunc & Colby).

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you regarding Colby, AZ.

I was completely shocked to hear rumors about him pouting last year. Now, he has been benched with poor eating habits?

I hope he doesn’t turn out to be one of those “talents that could”.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Radio Pregame

FWIW, the “injury report” portion of the radio pregame show is matched in worthlessness only by every other part of the radio pre-game show that precedes the real announcers. A 15-second injury report that generally tells how many of hte opponents’ players are on the DL, and only occasionally names them makes me laugh with derision almost as much as the “Who’s On Top” portion of the pre-game show that devotes a full 20-seconds to telling you where the Cardinals are in the standings. Each with :30 spots before and after the show portions, of course.

I have heard better pre-game segments before high school basketball games.

/rant

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FLAG'D!!!!!!

(for last line)

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Jun 30, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is a fair point.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Entirely fair

But, pinch hitting Ryan instead of Ludwick against Arizona was a horrible decision. TLR knew less than the VEB community on that one. I was going to type that I’ll call it a wash, but I don’t. That managing decision was the equivalent of a Rick Ankiel PA. Horrendous.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A

highatal hernia is not a career ending injury. Its just Colby’s reminder to live in the real world, and that no matter how you try to make it seem, there is pressure out there. Considering the nature of the problem, and who is handling it, you shouldn’t be surprised that there are mysteries. Something to remember, Ankiel has to show some skills at this point in order to have any value in a trade. Someone in the front office may be trying to create more space without defaming Colby to get said playing time. There is an appearance of more medical bungling, but that could just be a cover to this purpose. This is just wild speculation though.

On Liceum. He can’t last. Enjoy him while he’s here.

by OperaCard on Jun 30, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

That was…well it was something.

Care to elaborate on why Lincecum won’t last? His delivery is a marvel of biomechanical efficiency.

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, I'm no expert

but I absolutely love Lincecum’s delivery. He uses his entire body to throw the ball. As crazy as it looks, it seems pretty efficient to me.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

predicting a young pitcher won't last

is like predicting I won’t win the lottery twice in a row the day after my numbers come up; if you don’t have a specific reason for bringing it up it just sounds kind of obvious. Given the spotty track record of predicting pitchers based on the perfection of their mechanics or lack thereof I’m hesitant to say Lincecum’s more likely than anybody else to break down.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kolfax

As wiry and efficient as he is, he is still getting his release points on his fastball and slider “confused”. Arm too straight. Its great while it lasts. This is also a description of virtuosity. MLB has become a “Roman Colosseum” event in the last 20 years. Public expectation will drive him to injury. 250 innings will kill him. Think rock star. Sorry. I could be wrong. But that is unlikely.

by OperaCard on Jun 30, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That may be the single most disjointed post I've ever read.

And I’m pretty good at writing disjointed posts.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ECkStream

We all loved Sandy in his day. He appeared to be the model of efficiency. Our hearts were broken to learn that his wonderful curve had destroyed his elbow. The virtuosity that he displayed wasn’t in accordance with his god given body. Look around. See who is surviving and why.

by OperaCard on Jun 30, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You live out west?

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

Dude, my name is right above your post. And you still misspelled it. Are you the guy holding up the “Morans” sign from the other day’s thread?

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The plot thickens...

westcoastbirdwatcher once called fourstick “fourskin,” then blamed it on his spell check. Heh.

by BTown Birds fan on Jun 30, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sure am glad that d-bag Mr Redbird isn't around anymore.

wait… what?

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

What a tool

I hated that guy

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Jun 30, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry about the miss spellings

I had a client looking over my should. Sandy Koufax , hall of fame pitcher, and Eckstreem it is. I wrote about Liriano’s adjustments in recent days and also Santana’s so check the other threads if you’re interested. Lets hope the Tim has a long career in SF.
My experience suggests that a straight arm release of a slider will eventually destroy the elbow. Thats only my experience though.

by OperaCard on Jul 1, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This rambling bullshit routine

is really annoying. I give it another week.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's partially my fault for engaging him.

My bad. I find it entertaining, but I’m sure it unnecessarily clogs the thread.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The wonderful curve,

and 250 pitches in a single game. Three straight games on short rest, etc.

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jun 30, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This sure seems west coastian in origin to me...

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

for what it's worth

there’s no evidence for that on the administrative end, and wcbw’s previous sockpuppets were considerably easier to spot. So long as OperaCard remains a good citizen—if also a speculative one—I’d hate for him to be prematurely tarred with that brush.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

WCBW

I always enjoyed his prose. It was sort of like someone was translating the Riddler’s diatribes from a Batman comic book that was written in French in which the Riddler was terrorizing the Saint Louis (“san louie”) Cardinaux. Why he got the boot is fuzzy to me right now.

I don’t mean to suggest that OperaCard should be censored or anything.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BGH

From what I read yesterday. He seemed to like Lohse at 40 million and some guy by the name of Boros who campaigned heavily against it didn’t. He also seemed to be suggesting the Cardinals were headed toward a Farm based system a year ago. No one seem to agree. He also predicted a pay roll of 91 million which wasn’t popular either apparently. He was wacky though. An obvious personality disorder.

by OperaCard on Jun 30, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

You’re definitely him.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The "disjointed" one above

starting with “Kolfax” did it for me.

by goodymobb on Jun 30, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me, too

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this oughta be good

i’m gonna go make some popcorn.

by _pistol_ on Jun 30, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or, if I may translate:

“I am he, the man of which you speak!”

by mojowo11 on Jun 30, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

verily

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jun 30, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i know WCBW, and this dude is no WCBW

sorry to rain on the parade, but this guy/gal ain’t even close

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you keep saying that

was he your alter ego?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This Game Illustrates

the hitting woes of several Cardinal players. It is one thing to get shut down by a good pitcher but it is another thiing to miss pitches by a foot or so. The Cardinals are a station to station team and they have to many players that swing for the HR all the time. Games like this make me really miss the traditional small ball with a true leadoff hitter and a true clean-up hitter.

The constant line-up switching, in my opinion, is part of the problem and yes some of it is out of necessity but most of it is Tony trying to play the odds. This team needs a set line-up but will never have it as long as LaRussa is the mgr.

Defense wins games and there have been several instances this past week where it really hurt. Duncan is getting the most of his ability in LF but the truth is that he cannot cover the ground or make the throws and Schumaker is playing out of position. I think they need to start stabilizing everything by putting the best defensive team on the field – it sure doesn’t seem like it could hurt their offense much!

by Warcard on Jun 30, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

defense with a healthy team

Is the best defensive line up?

schu lf
rasmus cf
ludwick rf
derosa 3b
tgreen ss
ryan 2b
albert 1b
molina c

by nybirdfan on Jun 30, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

all your exclamations

I think there’s something up with DeRosa. Damn your sig!

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again:

That’s what she said.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jun 30, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

still very funny

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was nothing wrong with the lineup yesterday

and I’m not convinced there’s anything inherently wrong with TLR’s “lineup tinkering”. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence that hitters do worse when they’re moved around a lineup. After the first inning it doesn’t really matter hugely anyway; you bat when it’s your turn and the order is relatively meaningless (as long as you bunch your better hitters together).

Whilst I disagree with some of TLR’s in-game decisions and think the 13 pitcher thing is stupid and may have already cost us a few runs, I think the “lineup tinkering”, as much as anything, is trying to get the best out of a group that is overwhelmingly composed of mediocre players. So far, we’ve got nothing out of our 2B or 3B groups, we have light-hitting short-stops, a guy with mental issues, and a bunch of outfielders who are all hitting well below what would’ve been projected at the start of the year. It’s hard to just run out the same team night-in, night-out when we have so many problems and players hitting well below themselves.

We also have a number of players with extreme platoon splits, hence the need for radically different lineups on a night-by-night basis depending on which arm the opposition starting pitcher throws with…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

This one is not on Tony at all. Lincecum is just amazing, and our hitters suck. La Russa lineups have actually looked pretty good that past couple of weeks. As long as Raz, Derosa, Pujols, Luddy and Schumaker are in the 1-5 spots, I’ll be fine.

Oh by the way, gdm, I just realized Thurston sucks. Can you post the bear?

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's finally batting Ankiel lower

Which is a good development. However, he should never bat K-Greene or Ankiel in the no. 2 slot. Ever. And every time he does so, it is a poor managerial decision. (For what it’s worth, I am also not a big fan of Rasmus batting there, given his low walk rate, either.) Moving forward, I would hope that the 1-2-3 of the order would be Skippy vs. RHP/Ryan vs. LHP, DeRosa, Pujols.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind Duncan in the 2 hole

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but DeRosa is probably the best bet

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind Duncan, either

However, I am quickly warming up to sending him to AAA to play every day or trading for Shelley as a righty power bat off the bench. I’m only half-kidding…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see:

Schu
Dunc
Pujols
Ludwick
DeRosa
Rasmus
Yadi
P
Ryan

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That defense sucks to much

You can’t have Derosa, Dunc and Schu all in the lineup on the same day.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that much worse than:
  • Duncan, LF
  • Schu, 2B
  • Thurston, 3B?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something is going to suck

no matter what.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want to see

Schu
Lud
Pu
Raz
DeRo
Dunc
Yadi
P
Ryan

I still don’t understand why TLR is so willing to put struggling guys in the 2-hole to “get them pitches to hit,” but reluctant to do so with Luddy.

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Jun 30, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HAVE TO

agree they did that with Edmonds why not with Ludwick

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Jun 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is Shane Robinson doing in triple A

I likes his spunk. Maybe if we gave him a chance up in the big leagues he would learn something. His defense and speed would def be an upgrade from anything we currently have. Of course the problem is that he provides no power but then again neither does Duncan or Ankiel… Idk I am tired of waiting for Duncan and Ankiel, supposedly mistake hitters he can run into home runs from time to time do nothing but put up horrible to mediocre numbers. horrible in Ankiels place. Both of those guys have no chance against good pitchers it seems. At least that holds true so far this year. More and more I wish that Yadier would bat cleanup, but who knows. He would probably ground into more double plays there. but he is a great candidate for hitting and running. Idk, tired of the anemic offense. something more than just derosa coming in needs to be done in my opinion and maybe it is just shaking up the lineup a bit

The Redbirds are of the highest priority to me... As it should be

by ANDYAK47 on Jun 30, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if rasmus can't stay in the field, it might be worth considering

bringing up jay or robinson just for their defense. if we’re not going to have good offensive production, we should at least have good defense, and we have two plus defenders at AAA.

for now, i’m happy enough with an ankiel-rasmus-ludwick OF or a derosa-rasmus-ludwick OF. dunc is doing better at getting on base that ludwick or ankiel, but it’s probably not enough to justify keeping him in starts regularly.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 30, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Duncan in the no. 2 slot versus RHP

DeRosa career OBP vs. RHP: .336; vs. LHP: .374
Duncan career OBP vs. RHP: .369; vs. LHP: .269

Then it’s decided. DeRosa bats second vs. LHP and Duncan bats second vs. RHP. Glad we had this talk. Did you want to tell Tony or should I?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we can and should throw career numbers out of the window

he is not the same player at all

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

meaning duncan's career numbers

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2009:

Duncan’s OBP vs. RHP: .350

Cardinals’ OBP vs. LHP as a team: .330

So, going by 2009 numbers, Duncan should bat 2nd vs. LHP.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan's OBP

vs. LHP in 2009 is .299. I would think DeRosa is the obvious choice to hit 2nd vs. LHP with Luddy hitting 4th.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jun 30, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that was a...

typo.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jun 30, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. Typo

I meant versus “RHP.” My mistake.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are talking about OBP...

not power. Duncan still has a good batting eye even though he hits like a MIF these days. 2009 OBP vs. RHP = .350, Derosa’s 2009 OBP vs. RHP = .324 (.409 vs. LHP!!!).

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jun 30, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh by the way, gdm, I just realized Thurston sucks. Can you post the bear?

OH NOES! You were like the strongest Thursty advocate on this forum. I feel a bit sorry for him now – I might have to start defending him against all the Thursty hatin’ to make me feel a bit better….

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, he's walking at a 13% clip and his BABIP is .277

He’s only been slightly below average on offense and defense, and his current prorated WAR is a little over 1.

Still, he’s been playing like shit for 2 months and he’s made so many stupid baserunning mistakes.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

actually I’m more than happy with him as a backup – I don’t think his defence is QUITE as bad as it’s looked so far, and he’s possibly as good an option at 2B as Skippy is. He really shouldn’t ever be playing 3B for a major league team, though.

I also really feel Barden’s worth another chance. I’d bring him up for Greene. If we persist with this ludicrous line of not going out and getting a right-handed OF bat, Barden can make a few non-embarassing starts at 3B when DeRosa moves to LF against LHP.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade?

Matt Holliday for Ankiel, Joe Thurston, Clay Mortenson(sp?) & Tony LaRussa

the secret weapon takes over

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jun 30, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I've been a Thurston defender at times too

And I still think he probably has the ability to be a more valuable player than most of us would give him credit for. Still, the problem with him, in my mind, lies in his aggravating tendency to make errors that 95% of high school kids manage to avoid. How much they cost the team in runs and wins is almost secondary to how easily some of these things could be avoided. Well, Dan said it better than I ever could.

by Merry CRasmus on Jun 30, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

O M F G

i never thought i’d live to see this day. i’m just,,just,,,so,,,,happy viva that you’ve finally seen the light.

no,,,no,,these aren’t tears of sadness. these are tears of joy. your wish, is my command.

Yo MO!

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW I agree about the defense, though

Thurston should not be playing 3B at all from now on. We need to find a 2B somewhere (Durham?) and I think Schu should be in the OF. Duncan should be playing in AAA until he proves he can play in the major leagues anymore; if he’s not hitting with any power, he’s useless. And (braces self for backlash) I DO think that nepotism has a lot to do with it.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are entirely correct

but there is about as much chance of that happening as of Tony being spotted at Morton’s Steak House chomping on a filet.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jun 30, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

++ danup

very well written (again… i love this site…) – my favorite passage:

Of course this means nothing, and of course nobody thinks it does. Which is a fine way to start writing about a subject.

just smacks of Twain……

by cdb on Jun 30, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

samuel

i have been trying to think of a writer who danup seems like…and i think twain is perfect

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"into the Miklasz Care-o-meter"

I’m going to go ahead and give that one the gold star for today.

by bobeans on Jun 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wrote a post for Driveline about Lincecum's dominance last night

Here are some relevant graphs:

…Flight Paths


…Strike Zone plot.

Looks like our strikezone judgment was horrible again. We took way to many called strikes on pitches right down the middle, and swung at pitches out of the zone.

2 Hits… 2 Goddamn Hits?

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Our lefties are feeble

I don’t get as upset about the called strikes in the middle of the zone — although I’m curious if any of those were strike 3 — since I’d like to see the team take some pitches more often.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to my data, we had no strikeouts looking

I watched the game, and I swear there was at least one.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ludwick

on the close call punch-out by the ump, right?

by mattyp on Jun 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right, I missed it

That pitch was borderline though, so I’m not to angry at that.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Normally I agree

But against a pitcher like Lincecum, who was clearly on his game, it’s probably best to “swing at the first good strike” like Tony always says.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baby Dunk looked like a little leaguer last night in the batters box

he was so over matched it wasn’t funny. dude had no chance last night.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I watched the first two innings

then went to bed, predicting a no-no. I was only half joking, and only 2 hits out…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as strikezone judgment goes

the sequence that sticks out in my mind was Duncan’s first PA: Swings at a pitch at his shoestrings, stares at a fastball right down the middle with his bat on his shoulder, takes a pitch outside and in the dirt, then swings at a pitch at his chin. I wouldn’t be surprised if the the highest and lowest orange dots in that chart representing swinging strikes both came in that one Duncan’s AB. He looked absolutely hapless and pathetic, and he needs to be in Memphis until he is hitting (or at least not missing balls by a GD foot)

by mattyp on Jun 30, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can almost guarantee the highest one is his

and if the lowest isn’t then it’s at least one of the next two lowest, all in the same PA

by mattyp on Jun 30, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that at bat was appalling

I really can’t see how he’s still on the roster. He’s a terrible defender, has been out with a career-threatening injury and MAJOR surgery, and is now more than TWO YEARS removed from his only period of relevance as a baseball player (and that was only for 6 months or so – end of 06 and start of 07). His eye is half-decent but I still feel he gets fooled on breaking stuff and is hopeless against LHP. Most damningly of all, he’s hit (I think) 1 HR in the last month and a half.

It really isn’t a “slump”. This is the player Dunc is, right now. He’s been injured and he’s worthless (with his bad defence and only so-so OBP for a LF) if he’s not hitting HR occasionally. He needs to be in AAA. And in answer to the inevitable “who else plays if not him?” question, we need to get someone externally. A rental bat in the OF, and it doesn’t even have to be an expensive one. Just get a league-average OF in the last year of a contract from a non-contending team. There’s at least like a dozen of them, and some of them will be sold off for a bag of balls. I just do not know what’s taking us so long to get this done…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about Dunn...

the good hitting version of Duncan?

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jun 30, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there anything to this?

Everyone (not just Cards’ fans) seems to think Dunn will be gone, but why would WAS get rid of him? Wasn’t he wicked-cheap?

Kearns might be a decent get along the rental lines you’re talking.

by goodymobb on Jun 30, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WAS would be good team if they could pitch

They have a Top 5 offense in all of baseball. Crazy I know

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think there's anything to it...

nor anyway it will happen. Washington might get rid of him to save $5M this season and $12M next while bringing back some decent talent in return…unless they think they will be competitive next season.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jun 30, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

K

that’s kinda what I thought….just seemed like all the experts and talking heads are all about trading Adam Dunn but it doesn’t really have legs.

And the Nats have pretty solid young pitching, they are just, well, young.

by goodymobb on Jun 30, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kearns

I thought that he could be an interesting OF platoon option for us. Kind of. For whatever reason, he has really fallen off as an offensive player over the last couple of years. He posted a line of .217/.311/.316/.627 in 2008 and .197/.330/.322/.652 this year. Could he could play LF versus LHP for us allow for us to have an OF alignment that is two-thirds right-handed. His career splits versus LHP are: .266/.392/.426/.818. In 2008, they were not good: 99 PA/.153/.273/.224/.496. This year, he has again hit for a horrendously awful BA versus LHP, but his OBP is awesome in only 52 PAs: .158 BA/.385/.263/.648. His downward spiral has included his performance vs. LHP and it leaves me to suspect that Allen Craig could manage a line like that in terms of OPS against LHP.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 30, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yuck...

I didn’t know he fell off that much. Yeah, I’d hate to give up much (if anything) for those numbers but we really do need to do something to address our deficiency vs. LHP (and that “something” should, under no circumstances, involve playing Tyler Greene and/or Brendan Ryan in the OF simply to get another RH bat into the lineup).

by goodymobb on Jun 30, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who is this Allen Craig of which you speak?

BGH, you know as well as I do that there is no way that we promote a right-handed power-hitting corner outfielder. Especially because he is raking AAA pitching right now. It just doesn’t make sense.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 30, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because there is no way

he could play LF to Dunc’s high standards.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jun 30, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's on the DL right now.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 30, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't say goddamn on the air!

Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.

by Solanus on Jun 30, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By my count

The Cardinals swung at 10 of the 34 pitches obviously outside the strike zone marked above. That’s a 29.4% out of zone swing . If you guy by where the strikes were being called, it looks to me like the Cardinals swung at 21 of the 52 total pitches outside the umpire’s strike zone. That would be a 40.4 out of zone swing %.

Ridiculous!

by stlfan on Jun 30, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and... when does the hitting coach do something about this?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hitting coach

what’s that?

How did the pig corner the breakfast market?

by STLRegalia on Jun 30, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard rumors they existed

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, here's my question

If the team simply does not hit, like at all, for an extended period of time (except when the Marlins insist on hanging breaking balls to Ank for two days and the opponent is the Royals) when does the hitting coach get held accountable? I mean, I honestly have no idea exactly how much a hitting coach does or what McRae actually preaches or anything like that, but if your main job is to help the team hit and no one hits, aren’t you supposed to at least get a stern look or something???

VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i gave up calling for Hal to be fired last year

as long as TLR is here, HAL will be here. and as long as guys like Luddy say he’s helped them with their swing, he’ll be here.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think.

The cardinals are afraid of him. Remember his tirade with the Royals. He will completely destroy the clubhouse and probably injure somebody if he is fired.

by cdc81 on Jun 30, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously?

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Jun 30, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off Topic - Derosa Trade

Not sure if everyone saw this but I imagine people did b/c this site is pretty informed but I will bring up again.

Todd & Samuel are rumored to be on the PTBL list sent to Cleveland. Todd & Perez seems to be a high bounty to pay for Derosa.. Including Todd would change my opinion of the deal from good to we gave up too too much.

by njnick on Jun 30, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

conspiracy theory!

LaRussa tells DeRo he’ll be playing to suck for a few weeks so the PTBNL won’t be too valuable.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i heard a rumor that the cards are picking the PTBNL

is that true at all…cause that just seems bassackwards to me

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have heard so much BS when it comes to PTBNL

Like Bernie talking about it tieing to the fact if we sign him to the extension or not. Which is not even really possible unless we sign him by 12/28. Because a PTBNL has to be decided in 6 months and must switch leagues. It is more likely they will have decided by the end of minor league system.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This PTBNL...

has to be named by September from what I’ve read.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jun 30, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

PTBNL is seriously wierd

I mean, who the hell thought it up? What’s the point?

I quite like it, because it sort of fosters confusion and controversy and interest, but it’s one of the wierdest phenomena in sports IMO…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Allows teams to do more in depth scouting

Most other sports don’t have such deep minor league systems such as baseball

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably went something like this...

“We have to get this deal done now!”

“Well, we’re still looking. We still like these five guys in addition to the guy we’ve already settled on”

“Okay. There’s no way you’re getting these two, but you can have your pick of the other three.”

“Can we just do the deal and decide which guy later?”

And then the PTBNL was born.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on Jun 30, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One time

A guy was trade for a PTBNL but the other team couldn’t decide what they wanted back and the same guy was the PTBNL

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

someone is going to name their kid PTBNL

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are cooler names:

Link

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha

I love nerd talk

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love that one

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

only on VEB

would you see a comic about a SQL injection attack. Love it.

youneverknow

by floodOfLove on Jun 30, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You really love it if you are the acquiring team

Unless it is a player who is going to help you right now, you might as well put off the decision as long as possible. What if one of the three players on the list blows out his elbow during the six months? Plus you get to see more development from each of the players which gives you a better idea of their potential. If it is Todd for example, you get to see how this reliever thing works out.

by OCCardsFan on Jun 30, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mo said that he gave Cleveland

a list of player and that they would chose from that list by the end of the minor league season.

by RiverRat on Jun 30, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is how it usually works

"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang

by bmorgan on Jun 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

/Chitown'd

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Jun 30, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fer serius

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

just a lot later than everyone else.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jun 30, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

just popping in

to rec the last two comments in this thread. you two should take this on vaudeville.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on Jun 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

One more off topic

Reading over at Athletics Nation to get a feel for the Holliday trades and I noticed that after AK’s hot start his OPS is under 600 in June. Ah, justification.

by njnick on Jun 30, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

colby is on my yahoo fantasy team

and on the updated player profiles, it says the test yesterday did confirm that colby has a hiatal hernia and gastritis…it also says that colby says he’ll be ready to play tonight

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ankiel said he was ready to play after his stomach injury too

How did that work out again?

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

touche

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WebMD
If gastritis is left untreated, it can lead to a severe loss in blood, or in some cases increase the risk of developing stomach cancer.

(Ok, so they’re treating it….)

A hiatal hernia occurs when part of your stomach bulges upward out of your belly and into your chest cavity. There are three main types of hiatal hernia: sliding, paraesophageal, and mixed. A sliding hiatal hernia is generally not a serious condition. Paraesophageal and mixed hiatal hernias may get worse and are more serious.

So basically… lots of Tums and lay off the five alarm chili. If it’s more serious, he should be in a hospital.

My uneducated guess is they took no chances and made sure it wasn’t something like appendicitis.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Gammons saying that dye and rios may be available

i figure dye would cost a lot less than holliday…he can hit but not a great defender

anyone think the cards front office has any more moves up their sleeves

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Rios is availabe, we have to pounce

His skillset is that of a poor mans Holliday. Dye sucks.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rios is signed too long

09:$5.9M, 10:$9.7M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M

2015? GTFO

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea

i was thinking that gammons was crazy saying they would trade rios…it was cost an ark to get him

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought you said "it [would] cost an ANK to get him"

I was like, SIGN ME UP!

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer

by jd is legend on Jun 30, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i do

I’d rather see rios the dye, for the simple fact of defense

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Jun 30, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dye has a much better contract

09:$11.5M, 10:$12M mutual option ($1M buyout)

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude is a 133+ OPS player

How is that below average?

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok

Who cares about OPS? His wOBA’s the past 3 years have a .343, .376 and .388 over the past 3 years. ZIPS projects him to have a .376 wOBA the rest of this year, making him 24 runs above average offensively.

His defense is terrible. His UZR/150’s over the past three year’s in right are -21.5, -21.4 and -11.9. Even if you conclude that his improvement this year isn’t just the result of random variation and actually represents a legitamite improvement in skills; or you stick by your range theory, that he won’t be as bad in Stl., he is still a -15 defender at best.

If you combine that with the positional adjustment for playing right, he becomes almost exactly a league average player.

So you’re right, now below average, but not above average either. He’s certainly not worth his contract the next 2 years, plus what it would take to get him.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I honestly think in STL in LF

His range would be closer to -8 to -10 runs per 150. Chris Duncan has much worst range the Dye and is only a -8 UZR/150

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will try

Chris Duncan has a RF/9 of 1.4 in LF and has a -1.7 RngR in UZR in 446 Inn
Jermaine Dye has a RF/9 of 2.2 in RF and has a -5.5 RngR in UZR in 550 inn

Jermaine Dye has a 100 more innings than Duncan but has nearly 4 runs worst in terms of range even though he has better range than Duncan.

Than when you look at the CF’s to the side of each of them

Cardinals CF
Colby and Rick both have RF/9 of 2.8 which puts them in the top third of baseball in terms of range in CF

White CF
The main White Sox CFer is Brian Anderson. He has a 2.3 RF/9 which puts him in the lower quarter of baseball in terms of range for CF.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

When I watch ChiSox games, Dye honestly often looks like

Yadi in the outfield sometimes. He has really regressed.

Now, that said, if you want his offense for left field or something you know Kenny Williams will take your young guys.

by sdrone on Jun 30, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I’m living in Chicago these days and Dye is really ugly in RF, even more so than Dunc is in LF.

by mojowo11 on Jun 30, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I talk to Sox guys

They tell me he doesn’t look that bad but just has zero range

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that's what I mean

It’s not that he’s a bumbling fool like Duncan sometimes can be, it’s just that he’s painfully slow and gets to almost nothing.

by mojowo11 on Jun 30, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing about Dye

Is that if you look at his UZR numbers he looks one of the worst OFer’s in baseball in regards to defense. But if you dig a little deeper you see it is not as bad as first glance. Almost all of his negative value is tied into his range. He is probably comparable to Duncan in the field. The White Sox have no good CFer’s with any range to help Dye out. While our CFer’s have amazing range. So he would be poor in the OF but not as bad as his numbers say so.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would not mind having dye

if he is replacing duncan in left…then obviously we become a better team

i bet kenny williams wants more than he’s worth in return though

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would too

Dye is a fan favorite

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope we're not taking all the teams' fan favorites

Some of them suck.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jun 30, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats a really interesting point

i still think dye is too expensive, though, and it would cost a decent prospect to land him…

Rios is a pipe dream. I still call BS that the Jays want to trade him, that would make Ricciardi utterly nuts – sign a young guy to a huge, long-term contract and then cut bait on him after THREE MONTHS of slightly poor play?!? No way.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 30, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure that that kind of stuff doesn't really affect UZR ratings

I don’t remember the source, but I think it was someone legitimate.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It totally does

UZR is based upon your range, arm, and errors

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see how that could be possibly

Especially in the OF. What if Colby ran over and caught a ball in Duncan’s zone? Does that count for Duncan, Colby, or no one?

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would actually be the opposite

UZR is based off of zones, so if Duncan misses a play in his zone (meaning, Rasmus makes a play in Duncan’s zone), Duncan would lose points off of his rating.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, Tango said that Zones don't overlap

So this is a moot point anyway.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jun 30, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

perez

MSNBC quote:

White Sox 6, Indians 3: Nice Indians’ debut for Chris Perez: He hit the first two batters he faced, walked the bases loaded and then gave up a fielder’s choice, an RBI double, a wild pitch and run-scoring single. One of the guys he hit — Alexei Ramirez — took it in the head and had to leave the game. Congratulations, Mark Shapiro and Eric Wedge! After fifteen years of respectability, you have finally brought the Indians back around full-circle to “Major League” territory, complete with Rick Vaughn on the mound.

by cdb on Jun 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ha

yea just saw the highlights…he looked incredibly nervous

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

was it you that used that joke last night?

cause if not…then you’re a theif

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and by theif i mean thief

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it was me

But I still feel like a whore reusing my own joke

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i say do it

dane cook does it all the time

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and then he laughs at his own jokes

which are, as you said, repackaged from his (or others’) previous jokes.

by goodymobb on Jun 30, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think he's hilarious

i meant it as a compliment

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Jun 30, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This guy is a real piece of work...

http://www.letsgotribe.com/2009/6/29/930042/game-78-white-sox-6-indians-3#comments

Scroll down 1/3 of the way to the rec’d comment in green.

I’ve never seen someone so in love with a line.

by guayzimi on Jun 30, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply