More Holliday Chatter
by chuckb on Jun 28, 2009 2:00 AM EDT
in News
214 comments
It’s been said – here and many other places – that there is no real way to provide "protection" for Pujols. It doesn’t matter who hits 4th, the other team would much rather, ceteris paribus, pitch to that player than to Pujols. Whether it’s Matt Holliday or Matt Damon doesn’t make a lot of difference in terms of Pujols seeing good pitches to hit. The best way to "protect" Pujols, is to get runners on base when he comes to the plate. This forces teams to either pitch to Pujols w/ runners on base – when he’s most dangerous – or put an additional runner on base for the cleanup hitter. And again, as long as that hitter is about league average or better , the team that intentionally walks Pujols to get to that hitter is going to be hurt more than helped over the long run.
So far this season, the Cards best players have been Pujols, Rasmus, Molina, and Ryan. These 4 should be set in the lineup at 1B, CF, C, and SS , respectively for the remainder of the season. RF, LF, 3B, and 2B have been problems either b/c of offense (RF, 3B), defense (2B), or both (LF). The other thing that’s notable about our offensive struggles is that we have been downright horrid against lefthanders (.228/.308/.359). Our biggest culprits against southpaws have been Skip (.235/.291/.255), li’l Dunc (.242/.299/.371), Rasmus (.128/.226/.191), and Ankiel (.226/.268/.302). None of that should surprise anyone. Our 4 main left handed hitters have been horrendous against lefties. There is no doubt that the hitter we acquire should be a right handed hitter and clearly we need someone who can play the OF and allow at least 2 of those lefties to sit against the southpaws.
However, by focusing on outfield only players such as Matt Holliday, the team is ignoring its problems at 3B and 2B. Yes, we might get Troy Glaus back and he may play some and may be somewhat effective. In the meantime, we run out Joe Thurston (.302 wOBA) or Khalil Greene (.288). Both have been replacement level or below this season. Yes, I realize that we all love Skip’s spunk. He is first on the team’s grit-ometer and #1 in our hearts but he’s killing the team defensively and when a lefty is on the mound. Wouldn’t it be nice to have someone (other than Tyler Greene or Brian Barden) who could man the keystone when a lefty is on the mound? Does Matt Holliday offer that? Can Holliday play 3B?
When looking at trade targets, then, we need to be looking for a right handed hitter and preferably one who can play multiple positions. They also have to be playing for a team who is out of it, or near out of it, and whose team will soon be sellers. The candidates:
- Matt Holliday – A’s: Holliday’s a great hitter and, yes, I know about his infamous home/road splits. He’s still been a 2 win player in the first half while playing, by most people’s estimation, poorly in a pitcher’s park in the tougher league. Still, he costs more as well – the p-d says Ludwick, a right handed reliever, and a prospect. The problems are that he can’t play 2B or 3B and doesn’t even replace Ankiel or Duncan in the OF.
- Mark DeRosa – Indians: DeRosa will probably cost us someone like Perez or Boggs which is unlikely to cost the team any wins over the rest of the season. DeRosa plays 2B, 3B, and the OF, though historically DeRosa has not been a good infielder. DeRosa has a career wOBA of .336, though he’s been above that every season since 2005. DeRosa has destroyed lefties over his career (.305/.375/.488) and has averaged 3 WAR for the last 3 seasons. He would replace one of the replacement level 3B until Glaus gets back (should it happen), could play 2B or LF against lefties – thereby replacing one of the awful lefthanded hitters at those positions – and be worth 1.5 wins at a minimum for the rest of the season. Since he’s replacing replacement level players, that’s a gain of 1.5 wins. He’s also a free agent at the end of the season.
- Ty Wigginton – Orioles: No, he’s not a sexy name and yes, he’s signed for next season at $3.5 M. I seriously doubt that he would cost us more than Boggs or P.J. Walters, however. For his career, he’s been a lefty killer (.288/.361/.501) and, like DeRosa, he’s played 2B, 3B, and LF. Unlike DeRosa he’s only been below average at 3B but, more recently, he’s been better than 4-5 years ago. He’s probably at most a 2 win player for a full season, though he was worth 3.1 last year, so it’s probably a net gain of about 1 win or so over the last half of this year. He does, however, provide insurance at 3B next year in case Wallace or Freese aren’t ready to take the job full-time.
- Felipe Lopez – D-backs: LB made the case for Lopez a couple of weeks ago. His platoon splits aren’t as good as DeRosa’s or Wigginton’s (.274/.328/.393) but he’d be a damned sight better than the guys we’re running out there now. He can play 2B and 3B adequately and, as we know, has played some OF. He’s been worth 1.6 WAR for the D-backs so far this season and was worth 1.7 as a Cardinal over the last 2 months of last season so maybe it’s conceivable that he could be worth a win and a half this season as well. He’d cost next to nothing to acquire so we wouldn’t be out any wins this season.
- Scott Hairston – Padres: Hairston has really put it together this season. He has a .391 wOBA and has been worth 1.7 wins for the Padres while playing CF. He destroys lefties (.290/.343/.547 for his career) and came up as a 2B. This will never happen, however. He’s having perhaps a career year and is still under team control for 2 more seasons, thus making him pretty expensive. He hasn’t played 2B since 2004 and has never played 3B at the big league level.
- Freddy Sanchez – Pirates: Like several of the others, Sanchez mauls lefties (.352/.388/.501 for his career). Sanchez is just a good hitter. He’s had LD rates of 24.5%, 27.5%, 22.5%, 24.3%, and 22.7% over the last 5 seasons. He’s been above average at 2B and 3B and, though he’s never played the OF as a major leaguer, there’s little doubt in my mind that he could. He averaged being worth 3.9 wins from 2005-2007 and has been worth 2 wins this first half. He could certainly be worth 1.5 – 2 wins over the last half of the season. Would he cost much more than a right handed reliever? How about Perez and Jon Jay? Why not? The team has an $8M option on Sanchez for 2010 or he becomes a free agent. The main reason why this trade is unlikely is that Sanchez also plays in the NL Central but, if you ask me, that’s more likely to come back to bite us 3-4 years later than for the Pirates to care this year or next. Let’s face it – they’re not competing for a division title this year or next. The more I think of this, the more I like it.
Holliday was a 6 win player last season so it’s not unreasonable to believe that he might be worth 3 wins over the 2nd half of the season. Pretty good. However, Ludwick’s healthy now and was a 5.6 win player last season. Is it unreasonable to think that he’ll be worth 2 wins over the 2nd half? There’s virtually no difference defensively between Holliday and Ludwick, except for the fact that Holliday hasn’t played RF well…ever. I’d say that Holliday is worth no more than 1.5 wins more than Ludwick over the rest of the season and it’s probably closer to 1 win that the team gains – and that’s assuming that the reliever we trade (Motte, Perez, or McClellan) is replacement level over the last 3 months. I don’t care about the salary bump b/c we’re taking on half of it and Holliday’s a free agent at the end of the season. Do I want to resign him? Absolutely not. We’re going to need every $ we’ve got to extend Pujols. Ludwick will come at half the price of Holliday over the next 2 seasons. We can do better.
To those who would say – "We should only trade for Holliday if we can sign him to an extension!" Why would we, knowing that we’re going to have to come up w/ $25+M for Pujols soon, and knowing that we still owe Carp and Lohse for $10M+ for the next couple of seasons, give Holliday a contract in the neighborhood of 5 years, $75 M or more. 5 years probably isn’t enough for what he’s going to get. He’s probably going to get something like 6-7 years and $100-120M. When we have Ludwick, Duncan, Rasmus, Jay, Jones, Mather – why would we give Holliday that kind of money? Hell, we could sign DeRosa to a 2 year contract worth $12-15 M and let him play LF if we wanted, thereby saving some money for Pujols. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have Pujols than Holliday. He makes much more sense as a rental than as purchase, if you ask me.
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i say we trade for derosa.
just sayin’. ; )
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jun 28, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's a stupid idea
never gonna happen.
and we’d have to give up motte and wainwright to get him
pass the kool aid
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your crazy
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're. . . you're crazy man
I like you but you’re crazy
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel tired.
Is very bad to steal A-Pu's rum...is very bad.
by Power Slurve on Jun 28, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've got a f'in dart in your neck!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa for Perez?
Cleveland would laugh at us and then hang up the phone.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ahahaha . . .
how ironic.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like a free ride when you've already paid.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet the Cubs
would trade Bradley even up for De Rosa and eat half of Bradley’s salary.
by ridgesee on Jun 28, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kinda feel bad for chuck b
obviously put a lot of work into this and mo took the wind out of his sails
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 2:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's still pretty freaking aweseom
i love this site, i really do.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
i was looking for this place for a while. stltoday.com/cards and the cards’ official site are really bad places to discuss the cards
and i much more enjoy the posts by the mods or whatever you wanna call them on here than the guys from the PD who get paid to do the same thing
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this gem over at the cards' official site:
would almost be willing to bet that the PTBNL will be brendan ryan
now, correct me if i’m wrong, but wouldn’t that kind of completely violate the rules by which the player to be named later operates?
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jun 28, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and get rid of of our only .300 hitter who is not named Albert Pujols
violating the whole point of this trade . . . haha.
AHHH, I’m in such a giddy mood now. I will miss Chris Perez, though. There’s no doubt about that. At least he’s going to an AL team, though, where we won’t have to fear revenge too much. But I love trading him at this time. I’ve feared that he was going to go down the Reyes road with Dunc and LaRussa, so we might as well deal him while he has value.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it is a _great_ post.
the trade makes it sorta moot, but it’s cool musing about what might have been.
for me, one of the coolest things about this trade is the fact that derosa was on a lot of people’s lists, and we snagged him anyway.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
by ilrosso on Jun 28, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I guess Jayson Stark was saying he was going to Atlanta a few days ago,
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jun 28, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the club, DeRo
I’m ecstatic we picked him up. A little bummed to see Perez go, but that’s the nature of the business. Much more excited to see DeRosa coming than Perez going.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 3:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Perez is still developing
and probably didn’t fit into the LaDunc machine. great trade as long as the ptbnl is not too significant
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 3:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Antonelli says he is...
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he did
that’s part of his job description
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the PTBNL in the Sabathia trade was very good
Of course DeRosa isn’t in the same caliber as Sabathia in terms of talent or reputation, so the haul is obviously going to be much less. I would be okay with Jay as the PTBNL.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
they wanted a starter so I’m guessing it’s most likely to be a starter, or someone who could be a starter
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez can have wicked movement
on his pitches at times. I look for him to be good sooner or later. I kinda’ hated to see him go. Immediate needs prevail though, I guess. I can see why Cleveland wanted him though.
by ridgesee on Jun 28, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will miss Perez
he was a ton of fun to watch, but the velocity dropoff and the walk rate were rather worrisome
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My wife said that a Derosa T-shirt is the only Cardinals t-shirt she would ever wear
(She is a Cub fan, as I have mentioned about a zillion times)
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 28, 2009 3:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The De Rosa trade
mean one more good looking woman will be coming to town. His wife is a beauty. Used to do a little cook program with Mark Lempke’s wife down in Atlanta and boy is she a sweet thing.
by ridgesee on Jun 28, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want a Cardinals Derosa jersey to wear around wrigleyville
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys, just letting you know
Driveline Mechanics is publishing a series of articles on this trade. Kyle Boddy did a mechanics analysis of Perez, and TucsonRoyal did a PITCHfx profile. I will have an article about the deal from the Cardinals perspective up by tomorrow afternoon.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 3:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
waiting on the ptbnl
before i put my seal of approval. but they had to do something. I still don’t like the names being involved for holliday, and what it would cost to end up trying to keep him, although the 2 picks would be nice. of what is left i would rather have wiggy than anyone, I like getting guys that were in division and espically if they were casted away. Derosa will enjoy beating on the cubs, after the got rid of him to make room for milton bradley. Wiggy was cast aside by houston this winter to because they didn’t want to give him about a 1.5 million dollar raise. I like that extra little motivation, yes i know some say a pro shouldn’t need that, but i think it helps.
"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"
by elirock83 on Jun 28, 2009 4:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I agree
I’m in Virginia and get to see the Orioles a lot on our cable (MASN) channel. Wigginton strikes me as a very capable professionalhitter; something we just don’t have enough of on this roster. He can play 2b also.
by BCinVA on Jun 28, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still a Great Post
Even with the DeRosa move having already been made, b/c the logic against chasing Holliday is so strong and because the other options considered by Chuck still exist. Who wouldn’t like to add a Freddy Sanchez as well?
I can’t recall, but wasn’t #7 given to Mather in ST, which seemed to indicate he’d put a lock on 3B – turns out #7 is going to a 3B-man after all (at least sometimes).
Other mysteries remain. TL
by BKKCard on Jun 28, 2009 5:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez is amazing
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Freddy Sanchez and Jack Wilson as my DP
combo. They are insane. Neither can really hit for much power or average from time to time but man, they can slap some mean leather.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of Course, signing Sanchez
would mean less playing time for Pujols.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Average?
Sanchez won a batting title, didn’t he?
by TNTinCO on Jun 28, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One season
He’s got a balky shoulder that can flair up and send his slap hitting average into a tailspin.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he is hitting .317
With ~.170 ISO, not exactly slap hitting.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 28, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't realize Hairston...
was doing so well… Everything the D-Backs trade away turns to gold. Seriously, has there been a bigger letdown from a set of prospects… ever?
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 6:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Valverde turned out pretty well
and Justin Upton remains pretty damn promising. If they cash in on those two (which they already did Valverde) in a span of about 4 years, that’s better than a hefty chunk of teams out there. Hell, it’s arguably better than us.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Deal Moz
I liked Perez and his potential, but I never saw him fufilling that full potential with the organization. DeRosa was the player we needed right now and we got him! Hopefully this ends the Holliday discussion for good.
No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.
by RunninRedbird on Jun 28, 2009 6:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully
This will not be the last move. I am glad we made this one, but I hope this is just the start.
by nybirdfan on Jun 28, 2009 8:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha
that comment takes me back to our reactions to the Ronnie Belliard deal way back when.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope this season ends the same way too
No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.
by RunninRedbird on Jun 28, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they sign him to an extension
This is the type of solid major leaguer that Tony loves to have — very versatile. Will get 500 ABs playing 5 positions. I assume he’ll be a fixture at 3B for the reminder of the season, but if they can sign him for 2-3 year extension, gives Tony a lot of options. This guy is a winner, too. No surprise that subbing Milton Bradley who has no character for DeRosa who helped them get to playoffs has turned out badly for Cubbbies.
Feels like the new Secret Weapon with a little bit more pop.
I don’t think this takes the Holliday trade off the table though. I suspect that they are pushing very hard for this as well. Given his status, I don’t see the Cards giving up much. Beane is a magician, but with a little of three months left in the season and Boras as the agent, why would you give up a ton of talent. I think the question is better framed as to what the draft choices might be worth. I can see giving up two ML pitchers for a chance at some upside in the draft.
Just win
by The Duke on Jun 28, 2009 8:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's already 34
I would rather offer him Arby and keep him for 1 more year or take the draft picks.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just Win
My prism is always what does it take to make the playoffs while Albert is still here. I get that he is 33, but in my opinion the whole focus for each of the next 5-7 years should be, how do we get to the playoffs. You’ve got to give Albert a chance to win in his prime. In a normal world, paying up for DeRosa might not be the right answer, but I think for the way this team is constructed now and is likely to be constructed, then he is a great fit for a couple years.
That is why I want Peavy as well. We’ve got a gaggle of 40 man roster players who we can’t keep and SD is looking to upgrade everywhere. The lack of hitting becomes a lesser issue with a very strong rotation.
Just win
by The Duke on Jun 28, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is that 34 year old Derosa likely won't be very good in the next couple of seasons
Derosa.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Arbitration. If he takes it, great. Another year of DeRosa. If he doesn’t, great. A compensatory draft pick.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 28, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is my view also
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best way to "protect" Pujols, is to get runners on base when he comes to the plate.
Can I get an amen?
Also: Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
Nice work, chuck. (It’d be great to raid the Pirates… at least they’ll stop beating us with that player.)
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 8:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
multi-men
can’t say it enough, which is also why i repeat myself over and over, bat apu 4th
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 28, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1/2 of an amen
I don’t want to re-open a can of worms, but the pre-protection only works if there is some semblance of a post-protection. The problem is that we are getting league last production at #4 and not league average.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jun 28, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa
The PD says the Tribe has til the end of the ‘minor league’ season to pick the PTBNL suggesting to me its a minor leaguer
while I’ve commented in the past that DeRosa had an unrepeatable career year last season (an OPS 100 points above his prior career average if memory serves), he still constitutes a major upgrade on our bench and over the current candidates at 3b. He also put up solid numbers in a fairly spacious ballpark this year
viewing the movement of supersubs from last year — Miles to the Cubs, DeRosa to the Cards — clearly a net gain for the Cards
by vances law on Jun 28, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so can we send Duncan to Memphis
and HE can be the PTBNL…
I want to be the no-talent ass clown!
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 28, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still hoping it's Wellemeyer
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on Jun 28, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNL
“As for the player to be named, Shapiro repeated what he said last summer, when the Indians traded CC Sabathia to the Brewers in a trade that eventually netted Brantley as the player to be named.
“It’s an important piece for us,” Shapiro said. “That’s a structure that we’ve felt has worked well for us in past trades, in times where we’ve acquired guys like Coco Crisp and Michael Brantley. It’s a piece that adds significant value for us.”
Don’t expect tha PTBNL to be some scrub throw-in.
by MickS on Jun 28, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It'll be Scott Gorgen...
no big deal.
gz
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
there’s no way its a Wallace, Jones, or Boggs type (at least I’m hoping not on Boggs). The only player I think there’s a slim chance it might be — and it would bum me out out big time — is Todd. Of course Shapiro says its an important piece, what is he supposed to say: “Its an insignificant piece that adds no discernible value to the team…”
by mattyp on Jun 28, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jay
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Craig?
No longer patiently awaiting. Raz has arrived.
by RunninRedbird on Jun 28, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardinal players lost as PTBNLs since 2000
Chris Lambert
Luis Martinez
Chris Narveson
Mike Crudale
John Novinsky
Mike Mathews
Mike Wodnicki
Jared Blasnell
Jason Karnuth
Coco Crisp
Seth Davidson
Eliezer Alfonso
Matt Parker
Seth Davidson
One can’t be terribly concerned looking at the history.
It’ll be Gorgen or something similar.
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Crisp
is actually pretty good. But who are these other guys? JK…kind of.
by Cardinals645 on Jun 28, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read somewhere
that the PTBNL is at least least two years away. That should eliminate any talk of Wallace, Jones, or Descalso being the guy. At least, I hope it does. I hope it isn’t Samuel. The best news is that, according to Bernie, this puts at end to all the Holliday talk. If Billy Beane wants Wallace he should build a time machine and redo his 2008 first round pick.
by nmstar on Jun 28, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ridiculousness.
ESPN is in fact covering yesterday’s game with a scorecard of Twins vs. Albert Pujols.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just think of it as a three way trade
Cardinals get:
Mark Derosa from the Cubs
Luis Perdoma from the Indians (lost via Rule V)
Indians get:
Kerry Wood from the Cubs
Anthony Reyes form the Cardinals
Chris Perez from the Cardinals
PTBNL from the Cardinals
Cubs get:
Aaron Fucking Miles form the Cardinals
Way to go, Hendry!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 12 recs
and Milton Bradley...
not that that has worked out especially well.
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not form one of the three teams though
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yabut...
didn’t Hendry specifically trade DeRosa to free up money for Bradley? I thought he even stated that in order to get more left-handed power (Bradley), DeRosa’s salary had to go.
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
but then it’d be a four way trade with nobody giving anything to the rangers.
He’s still a FA signing in my alt-world.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's cool...
just saying it’s not as terrible for the Cubs as only receiving Miles. But then Bradley is awful, and he has $25 million left on his deal, so maybe it’s even worse.
Also, Rangers got Tanner Scheppers as comp pick for Bradley…
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
Never thought of it that way…
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm definitely stealing this
to piss off my cubs fan friends on facebook
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this trade
I don’t think Perez is going to develop into the closer that he is projected to. Depends on the PTBNL though.
by cowcards on Jun 28, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Perez wasn’t impressing me a great deal (b/c of his command issues), and they weren’t using him much. Seems like a good trade to me. I just hope the PTBNL isn’t Wallace.
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it was Wallace
he would have been the centerpiece of this trade, not a PTBNL. The effin Indians would have named him right now!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 28, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Wallace..
he’s been on a tear lately. When 3-4 last night with a HR and a double
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
by stltrav09 on Jun 28, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I nominate Welley for the PTBNL
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on Jun 28, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I co-sign this statement
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this mean the end of Joe Thurston at 3B?
I like the guy but he’s not an everyday player. I do think he is a good guy to have on the bench though.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
by stltrav09 on Jun 28, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hopefully
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God willing
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 28, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
after yet another bone headed move on the base paths, it damn well better be
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derosa Salary..
Any word if the Tribe sent any cash over or will the Cards be paying the remainder of his salary?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
by stltrav09 on Jun 28, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't know for sure...
but it’s a virtual certainty that the Cards are paying all of it (less than $3 million).
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PD
His salary is $5.5 million this season, and the Cardinals will cover the prorated remainder of his contract.
by dugmartsch on Jun 28, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why I like this trade:
Good luck, Chris, but that scares the crap out of me.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Per Bernie on Twitter
Mark DeRosa playing LF and batting cleanup today
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 28, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Glad to see
we’ve solved that 3B problem
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 28, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yea i know....
I’m guessing Ludwick sits again, while Thursty Joe gets yet another start
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 28, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy fucking shit.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Skip 4
K. Greene 5
Albert 3
DeRosa 7
Ludwick 9
Ankiel 8
LaRue 2
Pinero 1
T. Greene 6
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeesh, K-bot in the 2 spot
Ugh, that’s rough. I’d rather see Ludwick up there.
Skip
Luddy Buddy
Albert
The Rose
Ankiel
K-Bot
LaRue
Pinata
Laid Back Greene
I know whom to call for a hole in my roof or a whole new roof.
by lightbulb on Jun 28, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's about what I would guess
Though I would have Ankiel sitting instead of Rasmus. DeRosa more than likely hasn’t even had a chance to go over signs and take ground balls with the infield. But you still want him in the line up the first day..
by Evilfrog on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Ankiel is hot
remember? Al and Dan told us so on Friday!
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know, he really is...
Smell the Glove
by emrfg8 on Jun 28, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something I havent' seen mentioned
is that DeRosa is not a particularly good defender at any position. His UZR/150 at 3B is -16.3 for this season so far and he is -7.7 there for his career. Other career numbers are:
2B -7.5
SS -8.4
RF 21.3
I don’t like giving TLR a guy who plays multiple IF positions poorly, but at least he can hit.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 28, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll give him time with Oquendo before passing judgment
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason
I doubt a 34 year old is going to get significantly better from being with any coach for a few weeks. Dude has been playing defense for 20 years he is what he is.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 28, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pinata bites his thumb at you
As does skippy.
But – point taken.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
call me crazy...
but I haven’t noticed the cardinals defense being responsible for a ton of losses. That offense, though, has been absolutely atrocious
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 28, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 28, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
how many (dozens) of times have you noticed a hit through the infield that Skip dives for and misses. Most people only notice the errors or obvious misplays, but the ones fielders can’t get to hurt just as bad.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 28, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Errors almost always “give up more” than simply allowing a single.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a beautiful statement
It’s great that you have strong opinions, but it would help if you occasionally had a clue.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 28, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
only if
it’s a two base error or more
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip Schumaker at 2B
is one of the lesser worries for St. Louis
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
all this defense stuff doesn’t seem to matter much when Pujols is the only guy driving in runs
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
apologies to
Tyler Green’s noggin
"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jun 28, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
the defense stuff matters more when Pujols is the only guy driving in runs. Having a replacement level player like Skip playing everyday at any position is an issue for a team that hopes to contend.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 28, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MIF memories
At least Skip slides and the balls goes under his glove. With Eck and Miles, the glove is still three feet away.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jun 28, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you haven't watched a lot fo joe fucking thurston have you?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thurston's UZR/150...
is -6.8. DeRosa is a much better hitter than Thurston and therefore an upgrade.
Also, if Glaus comes back. DeRo can move to Left, platoon with Shu at 2B and spell Glaus once in a while.
by jdubya on Jun 28, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While bad so far,
he was solid gold last year at 3B, projecting to a +2 win guy over 150 games.
I think this speaks to the need to take UZR over 3-year averages (affecting your bad 3B numbers this year and my good ones from 2007 and 2008).
I know whom to call for a hole in my roof or a whole new roof.
by lightbulb on Jun 28, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reply fail
Replying to giveml.
I know whom to call for a hole in my roof or a whole new roof.
by lightbulb on Jun 28, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been above average...
at third in the recent past (‘08 and ’07)… It’s impossible to say how he’ll be this year at 3rd.
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Are we headed for another set of three?
Billy Mays found dead. Why couldn’t it have been the ShamWow guy?
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
one and the same
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 28, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carleton Sheets...
is checking himself into the hospital now…
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the day
the infomercial died.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can't remember if i cried, when i read about his widowed bride...
the day the informercial died
I want to be the no-talent ass clown!
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 28, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about
Carradine? one more to go…
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I consider Billy Mays the third
Ed McMahon was just old, not too much of a shocker.
Though Farrah had cancer, she still died at a young-ish age, just like MJ and Mays.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
olney says done deal
if wallace is available and if A’s include a reliever (maybe wuertz, bailey, ziegler, or springer)
Pujols/Holliday = world series
From Buster Olney’s (insider) blog, this morning:
St. Louis may not be finished dealing because the Cards have been casting big nets in trade talks this week. They have had conversations with Oakland about Matt Holliday and probably could get a deal done if they agree to part with young infielder Brett Wallace. They could use a veteran reliever now that Chris perez has been dealt.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=ol ney_buster
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 28, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That sounds awful
I might cry if it happens.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd hope Moz would be fired
and the summarily flogged in the town square if he let Bean get the better of him like that.
You can’t trade for Holliday if you are going to give away your cheap, young talented players that allow you to sign big $ contracts like that.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
3 months of holliday, 1 very good reliever + 2 draft picks
thats a decent haul + i bet a pairing of pujols/holliday intriigues them enough to maybe sign here long term
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 28, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would he sign a 6 year
club controlled extension?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That not enough
for a top prospect who will likely be in the big leagues next year.
Signing him long term would make the deal worse, as it would not cost only more money but would be stupid because they can offer him the same amount of money in 4 months and not have to give up Brett Wallace.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they could sign derosa
or get 2 draft picks when derosa hits free agency. plus freese/raig are going nowhere. plus i think tyler green has some decent upside. Its not like the situation is horrible if wallace is traded
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 28, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would they rather pay for a 35 year old 3B
than have a cost-controlled, young, talented one for 6 years?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are u kidding me?
please tell me you are
by nmstar on Jun 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This guy is an A's fan...
Click on his profile. Of course that sounds good to him…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 28, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This makes my heart hurt
I know whom to call for a hole in my roof or a whole new roof.
by lightbulb on Jun 28, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way we'd ever make that trade
but if we did give up Wallace for a Holliday rental, I would burn Busch III to the ground
/hyperbole
but I probably would demand Mo’s pink slip in person if I ever ran into him
by mattyp on Jun 28, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like the thoughtful, deliberate, and smart F.O. philosophy has given in to mob rule
The P-D forum mob is running the F.O. This is like a nightmare. If this is true, every nice thing I’ve ever said about Mo will be rescinded. At this rate, we’ll have no Faberge Eggs, only a barren farm system with no impact prospects. Why get rid of Jocketty and his archaic approach if this is what you are going to be doing? I’m not wild about the DeRosa deal, but I can live with it because he is a very useful player for a club that very well could contend for the World Series this season. However, if we then make a trade that includes our best position prospect for a three-month rental and a veteran reliever, it is setting us back for 2010, and I’m decidedly not okay with that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 28, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy fucking shit
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah...
Don’t trade the Walrus for a rental! We’re not talking about a semi-fungible, raw RH reliever…we’re talking about a 25-30 HR bat who can hit for average and get on base. Positionless? Yes…but aren’t the Cards better off at least waiting until the Tusked One plays in the show? Couldn’t that raise his trade value further? NO TRADING WALRUS!!!
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
people wanting to make the big trade to get Holliday and the excitement that follows a big trade. But I am concerned on mortgaging our future (Wallace) for a rental we can’t afford when it comes time to resign.
I think making smaller (affordable) moves to improve this team will prove fiscally wise. It will show Albert that we are trying to win and not bankrupt our farm system in the process. It also keeps the warchest open to pay Mr Albert when the time arises.
I believe our farm system is what will keep Pujols here. If we make smart moves that are fiscally and baseball smart we will be fine. What we don’t need is high priced veterans that are mediocre but have huge name recognition.
by Riney on Jun 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what is your opinion on mortgagng the future
just my assumption but it seems A’s would want wallace and not much else. Is that better or worse than giving up a haul of 3 players. i dont know i guess it depends on who it is (among jones, jay, anderson, boggs, mortensen, motte, hill, etc)
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why should they give up that much
for a high-dollar free agent to be who can’t generate a .800+ plus OPS away from Coors? I have no doubt Billy Beane wishes a do-over on last year’s draft but giving up Wallace for Holliday would be simply a horrible move. Especially since as you note our 3B depth has vanished before our eyes and Wallace is the only one standing and he can really rake?
by nmstar on Jun 28, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If
we did trade for Holliday and didn’t resign him, next year we would trade away another set of prospects for “protection” for Pujols again. Then in 2 years we won’t have young talent and Pujols may be gone.
by Riney on Jun 28, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AND WE'D BE LIVING IN A VAN
DOWN BY THE RIVER!!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm okay with trading wallace IF
we re-sign Pujols to a long contract. I’m in the camp that believes Wallace is destined for 1B/DH
by dcfcblues on Jun 28, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like todd might be one of the ptbnl
wow nice deal indians if true
Cardinals Acquire Mark DeRosa
By Eddie Schmid [June 28 at 11:15am CST]
SUNDAY, 11:15am: Jon Paul Morosi has written about a couple possible PTBNLs for the Indians:
“One official with knowledge of the transaction said minor league right-handers Jess Todd and Francisco Samuel are on the list of possibilities. It’s not known if other players are on the list agreed upon by the clubs. But Todd and Samuel are hard throwers who could fit into Cleveland’s bullpen next year. And anyone who has watched the Indians play recently is aware that they have an immediate need for power arms at the end of the game.”
Morosi notes Todd has a 2.73 ERA in 28 Triple-A appearances with one big league game this season. The PTBNL will be received on or before September 1.
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 28, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ouch
they did show a picture of Todd in Perez’s place so that could be a possible link
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if true, then it's a bad deal for the Cards.....
I would think MO is better then dealing away a major talent like Todd or Samuel….. man I hope it’s not true.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree IMO todd/perez were the 2 best
up and coming relievers, but dont give up both
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 28, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
That would be a very poor trade. Perez plus a lower level prospect, I could accept, but Perez and Destroyer…Heavens no.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 28, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That guy is a tool...
Todd has more value than Perez. And why not just name him now if it’s him?
by guayzimi on Jun 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I doubt it’s a top ten guy. Otherwise, he’d be in their system ASAP.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
They know what Todd can do, they wouldn’t wait til the end of the year. He could probably help out their major league club right now
by riotmute on Jun 28, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
wasn’t there speculation that the quality of the player made available would be tied to Derosa signing a contract extension. I guess if we put Todd on the list we were willing to give him up (unwisely imo), but at least this would give us a potential out for protecting Todd, as he would surely have to be on the “better name” list if the speculation is true. Whether the FO would forego a Derosa extension to protect Todd is another matter, however.
by mattyp on Jun 28, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's Todd or Samuel
we failed at this deal.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even if it's Todd/Samuel
it’s still 2 relievers given up. Right handed relievers are a dime a dozen. Our organization seems rather adept at drafting them.
by dcfcblues on Jun 28, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-1..... quantity doesn't equate to quality
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 28, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relievers like Perez, Samuel and Todd
are a dime a dozen, and this organization knows how to find them. You create a surplus of something and then you trade from it to help the big club.
by dcfcblues on Jun 28, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the DeRosa trade will help Ludwick mentally.
Maybe he can relax a bit now and just start hitting the ball.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 28, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well he can't really play any worst
Can he?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a trick question?
No one can play worse than worst.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
takes us back to the
“Could Joel Pineiro throw a sinker so good that not even Joel Pineiro could put it into the gap? " of last week.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure he can....
but I don’t want my mind to go there…… it’s a very dark place and the doctor is out of town for the week.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 28, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hasn't worked so far
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elias Ranking
I looked over the current Ranking for DeRosa. By switching leagues he stays a B but moved lower down the ladder. Still in good command of it though.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking Of
We need to pray to the GOB’s that Glaus comes back strong for the reason that he is still a Type A FA by a long shot.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what happens
if the two teams can’t agree on a ptbnl?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
arbitrator?
besides…. both sides have to agree to the list before the trade can be done. I just don’t want Todd on that list to begin with.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 28, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't believe they would give up Perez and Todd for a rental
by riotmute on Jun 28, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would be pretty dumb
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they've already agreed upon a PTBNL
there’s a list
by hangingfromatree on Jun 28, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well they should just tell us then
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
and ruin several weeks of nerve wracking chatter here…… surely you jest?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 28, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Negative
The players who are on the list who don’t end up being traded don’t need to know the organization “doesn’t believe in them”.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 28, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I keed I keed
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It must suck to get traded
Especially your first time. One day you are chilling at your house the next day the boss tells you are moving to Cleveland.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he can bunk up with A Reyes?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless you got traded from the Nats to a team w/ a pulse
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jun 28, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone know what channel the game is on?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what game?
We’re facing a lefty …
by hangingfromatree on Jun 28, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sundays are Game days!!!!
KSDK, right?
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 28, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I go out of town for a weekend and the cardinals front office starts acting like a big market team…3.1 mil for a 16 year old? thats just crazy, but judging from the kid’s swing in BP, it might pay off in the distant future
And Derosa? i wanted it to happen, but i never thought it would…i was at a family reunion all weekend…my brother-in-law is a bug Cubs fan…we were watching BBTN when they broke the news, and he sat still and quiet, visibly shaken for about 15 minutes…it was classic
His biggest problem is that the reason the cubs traded Derosa was basically to be able to afford milton bradley…and then the cardinals get him
great weekend
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 28, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what's the over/under
on how many times Ankiel K’s today?
by hangingfromatree on Jun 28, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Derosa looks pretty good in red
by hangingfromatree on Jun 28, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good first step.
I would still like to see another move before I’ll feel good about this team. At the least, someone like Lopez costs little and would improve 2nd base defensively (trading an extreme liability for a regular one: UZR/150 of 4 this season but -8 last year) and offensively against lhp. While allowing Skip to play LF full time vs rhp, upgrading that position defensively and offensively as well. I know some folks don’t like Skip’s bat in left field, but we’d be putting more, better bats on the field. Surely that is more important than matching positional profiles.
Obviously others (Sanchez, Wigginton) would be even better. Still an infield with Lopez (2B) and DeRosa (3B) might not be a defensive dream, but it gets a number of our scrubs off the field, and with Ryan continuing his hoover-vac impression at short, is something I could live with.
-- Aidan Sonoda
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - 4/9/09
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
by Aidan Sonoda on Jun 28, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No Kearns?
I’ll even buy the bag of balls.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 28, 2009 9:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe if we all chip in
we can buy them some fungo bats too?
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 29, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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