Cardinals acquire Mark DeRosa for Chris Perez, PTBNL
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:12 PM EDT
376 comments
ESPN is reporting it's a done deal. DeRosa's a league average bat and a career defensive negative at third base; Chris Perez is probably the best of the three Young Right-Handed Relievers. He's a big price to pay.
Now that we've had a moment to digest I'll take off the Drudge flashers and say that I was off base in suggesting that DeRosa is strictly league average. He'll get on base in front of Pujols, which is wonderful, and after a few years at this new talent level, even in hitter's parks, it's probably fair to assume that he'll maintain it for the four months it'll matter to us.
And his versatility—well, needless to say that his handedness and the fact that another manager has already moved him into the outfield have gotten Tony all faklempt. On the Cardinals, with their left-handed surplus in the outfield, he is peculiarly valuable as a left fielder.
He's an upgrade. But I disagree with the idea that Perez is fungible, even given the volume of hard-throwing right-handers the Cardinals are sitting on at this moment. McClellan and Motte aren't lighting things up in June or this season, either, and while Todd is a fine relief prospect he isn't half the prospect Chris Perez was exactly one year before the Cardinals gave up on him. Perez has better stuff, both scouted and observed, and better numbers at every level than the players he will be replaced by.
This is a nice message trade, and since I've defended La Russa throughout the 13 Pitcher Spectacular it would be inconsistent for me to say that keeping the team On Board is suddenly unimportant. And If the Cardinals get to the playoffs this year the deal can be said in some way to have worked, like it did when they traded for Chuck Finley. But four years from now this will be remembered as the Chris Perez trade.
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This has to make a few Cubs fans a little steamed
:)
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
by KYCards on Jun 27, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
try
most cubs fans are steamed. They had quite the little love affair with DeRosa.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Jun 27, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually yes.
One of my co-workers stated he would buy a Cardinal’s Jersey if DeRose became a Cardinal. I already texted him on it.
by Evilfrog on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we are a little bummed to say the least
but we are also consoled by what you guys gave up for 3/5 of a season for him. He’s a great guy and you will love the attitude he brings to the table
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sir
your sig will give me nightmares tonight.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jun 27, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
things that make you go...
[that noise that they make on Blue-Collar Comedy Tour]
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Jun 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well take comfort...
in the fact that Albert is contractually-obligated to be a Cardinal in 2011. Cub fan delusion has made the impossible possible…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 28, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sent my cubs buddies a text immediately
Are you serious?!?! Fuck!
was their answer
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 27, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My buddy
“That’s fucking stupid.” hahhahahahahah
by redbirddude on Jun 28, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more texts to cub-fan-friends
i live in chicago and my boss, and everyone, really bleed small bear blue. and yeah they loved that guy big time. we actually had a conversation going on that i’m not sure is suitable to reprint(type) anywhere, but the gist is this: not exactly the same as the cubs acquiring endmonds … on the other side of that its not the same as the cubs acquiring miles either ….
by staticard on Jun 28, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Booo!
Derosa Hooray but to give up Perez for Derosa? I would rather see him go for Holliday but I guess Billy Beane was delsuional enough to think he could net Wallace for Holliday.
In the long run we are probably better off.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on Jun 27, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
boooo Holliday
my opinion
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have to disagree
with p much the entirety of that post
by prophetjohn on Jun 27, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
with the disagreement.
DeRosa can fill an empty platoon at 3rd, 2nd, or in the OF on any given day.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Jun 27, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a career defensive negative
at 2B and 3B, he’s coming off a career year as a 33 year-old middle infielder… this just isn’t the kind of player I’d want to get in exchange for the top prospect in a bullpen that isn’t as stacked as we thought it to be. It just strikes me as a panic deal.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree with the disagreement with the disagreement.
If we could have figured out a way to move Ankiel instead of Ludwick to get Holliday, I would rather have seen that deal and waited to see what happens with Glaus. My guess is that he sees all of Skips AB’s against Lefties and the rest at 3b with a few more in LF.
by rlgosnell on Jun 27, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is a minus defender in the infield
i can’t disagree with facts.
but perez is not the best of motte/kmac/perez. and with the amount of depth we have (it’s actually a lot) perez is chump change for the boost derosa will provide, both on the field and in the clubhouse.
perez wasn’t even pitching that much lately. except yesterday presumably to give the indians one last look. fortunately he impressed
by prophetjohn on Jun 27, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you going by UZR?
He’s plus in the OF and not particiularly brutal at third – even above average in ‘08 and ’07. And he’s got a career 900 ops against lefties. Do you not think a couple extra wins will be useful this year, or do you not think he’ll deliver?
by guayzimi on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
he’s not a true talent .800 OPS guy—which I admittedly can’t back up—and I think Perez is too high a price for one, even one and a half wins for this 2009 team.
DeRosa is an upgrade in 2009, but I don’t know if it’s one I make.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's more like 2-3 wins...
given that he’ll be taking at bats from Thursty and Duncan/Ankiel… Keep in mind Tony has been playing these clowns against lefties. No more of that now.
by guayzimi on Jun 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa is versatile
but he can only replace one of Thurston or Dunc/Ankiel
by ubeddie on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that high
That’s about what Derosa is worth over a full season. He probably adds a full team to the team, maybe a little more.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know he plays a lot of positions, but a full team?
It was a great selection of awesome.
by battlekow on Jun 27, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hah
*win
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa's OPS over the last three and half years...
.812 TEX
.792 CHN
.857 CHN
.799 CLE
Seems like an .800 OPS guy is exactly what he is.
by indakind on Jun 27, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The OPS is good,
but the fact that he will be one of the team leaders in OBP from day one is the real upgrade, IMHO.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 27, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed completely
we have to look at this relative to our team. to our FIRST PLACE team. if the pitching keeps up, a player like DeRosa could mean what a player like Kinsler means to the Rangers (completely subjective, but you get the point).
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he is
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't we also get a draft pick
if we offer arbitration? Someone was saying he’s eligible for this offseason, right?
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably
worth pointing out that while BIS UZR isn’t a fan, STATs UZR likes him quite a bit (though it’s a couple of years old now). Fun with defensive stats. Different data sets, same methodology gets you different answers. Presumably the Cardinals are using super UUZR or whatever the proprietary metric is these days. Also, like has been pointed out, ZiPS has him at a .350 wOBA for the rest of the year which is solidly above average.
by haltz on Jun 28, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like his D
personally
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
panic fully justified
and long overdue.
by Mike G on Jun 28, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
Perez is hardly a good prospect. As a reliever his potential impact is already pretty low; when you combine that with a drop in velocity and worsened command, he doesn’t look very good right now.
Also, Derosa is significantly better than a league average bat. ZIPS projects a .352 wOBA the rest of the year. If you figure that he would get 350 at bats the rest of the season, he would be worth roughly 7 runs above average with the bat. His defense is bad, but not terrible, probably -5 runs over a full season or -3 runs the rest of the way. If he add in replacement level and the positional adjustment, he projects to be roughly a 1.5 WAR player the rest of the way. Thurston is basically replacement level, so I would call this a pretty sizable upgrade. Plus he can play second and would drastically help our lineup against lefties.
Good deal… for who we gave up, it is much better than a Holliday trade IMO.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 27, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus
He can actually get on base a bit. 2-hole in front of Pujols?
by mikedallas45 on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But don't forget
there’s also a PTBNL as part of the deal. Could it be one of Jay or Jones? Hope not, but we were obviously the ones looking to pull the trigger, so I think you have to think we gave up more.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jay and Jones are on different levels
of prospect value.
Jones wouldn’t be a thrown in, he’d be a big part of the story if his name was even on the list.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNL are basically never that prominent
It’s probably a pick of like 3 ’08 draftees.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I like this.
I had high hopes for Perez, but if we can hang onto Motte, I think we won this trade
I want to be the no-talent ass clown!
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 27, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
especially
if we can re-sign franklin to a cheap deal.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stoked
The more I saw Perez pitch this year the more I saw him playing out of the Cardinals’ future. Motte has become effective. Whether or not he becomes our closer down the line is to be determind.. Maybe our set-up man of the future.
Glad it was Perez to go and not Motte.
Stoked we got DeRosa. Hope the PTBNL isn’t anyone amazing. Doubt it’d be Wallace or Darryl Jones.
Hope we can re-sign DeRosa. I’d begin talking contracts with him STAT
by Ghosty on Jun 27, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Offer arb
Leave the gun, take the cannolis and the draft picks.
by mikedallas45 on Jun 27, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so keep him til he's 36!
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNLs
rarely are anyone amazing. Probably some A ball live arm type.
by mikedallas45 on Jun 27, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Indians got a pretty good PTBNL out of the Brewers last year, so don't be so sure
It was a great selection of awesome.
by battlekow on Jun 27, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck Sholwalter says he will be a “darned good player.”
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 27, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't we still owe a PTBNL to San Diego?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jun 28, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Forgot about him. Like Worrell, now on the DL, though not for the season.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jun 28, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the short term...
I think it could be a plus, considering our offense.
But in the long run? Definitely a negative unless Todd/Riefer/Samuel, etc. pan out quickly.
I like Chris Perez as much as anyone, but his walk rate wasn’t improving that much, despite the appreciable K’s.
All in all questionable, but a great trade if we make the playoffs and one or two of our relief prospects pan out.
by Cardinals645 on Jun 27, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 27, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm torn
really loved YP, but i feared he was turning into the second coming of ARey under Dave. you could tell how he was used Tony clearly had more confidence in AP than him. so i’m sad to see him go, and i wish him the best up here in ohio.
but i’m happy we got DeRo. especially if it marks the end of joe f’ing thurston.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2009 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'd hope
tony had more faith in pujols than perez. they’re in different situations, though
by prophetjohn on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh, me too
so is that considered a Pujolsian slip?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no...
Pujolsian Slips occur on plastic on-deck circles during rainy games
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Jun 27, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's never speak of that again
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FLAGGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And don’t make me start calling you names.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 28, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez looked like a different pitcher this year,
and not a good one. Mechanical changes robbing him of velocity and control, he could figure it our and be a good fastball/slider guy, or he could be Blain Boyer and a million other RH relievers. I’m willing to take the field in that bet.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 27, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll take the field in that bet as well
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
by bmorgan on Jun 28, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Reyes
is the first person I thought of when I thought of Perez too. Coincidently we trade Perez to Cleveland…
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Jun 27, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet this will be better for Perez
Somehow he got on Tony’s badside (it looks like). Who knows for sure.
Welcome DeRosa!
by spfldbird on Jun 28, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
We don’t have someone we can call Young Pitcher anymore! Bummer.
But hooray DeRosa!
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to quit
calling Motte AP. It’s very confusing. If anything, he’d be AS.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HS
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So who goes down or out from the MIF brigade?
Just about has to be Thurston, doesn’t it?
by StanTheManFan on Jun 27, 2009 11:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
God I hope so...
but I fear it will be Tyler…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 27, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be unfortunate.
but unsurprising.
by Cardinals645 on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not Thurston
I promise you they’d demote T. Greene and BR before him.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right
but my messed up logic says it has to be Thurston, unless they have faith in DeRosa at SS. I mean, if T Greene goes down, doesn’t that make Ryan the everyday SS?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 28, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it'd be insane to demote Ryan.
His numbers right now are too good to justify any sort of demotion. And LaRussa seems to like him, which helps.
I’m guessing Greene will be the one to go. Although, I agree that it should be Thurston.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woohoo
The best part is that this should mean no Ludwick for Holliday! Said to see Perez leave. I hope the best for him. But with his loss of velocity it wouldn’t surprise me if he was hurt.
by Evilfrog on Jun 27, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
honestly
if this trade is Holliday and Perez for Ludwick, second prospect, and DeRosa it makes me happier than the trade as a whole. Here’s hoping Moz doesn’t go the extra mile.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hm?
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 27, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if this trade
means they don’t spring for matt holliday, I’ll accept it.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm with you danup
like you i have some reservations about this trade, but i think it’s a lot more sensible than the purported trade for holliday. if this forestalls the holliday trade, that’s yet another argument in its favor.
whatever derosa’s shortcomings, he is very clearly an upgrade over thurston/barden/greene/etc etc — the guys he’s replacing have been so weak that he’s worth a win and a half if he just hits his norms, and if he performs well he could be worth as many as 3 wins. and he also makes the cardinals a better playoff team, if they get there. so he could have a big near-term impact. the move has some risk, but at least there’s clear upside.
having said that, i think perez has a chance to be a terrific pitcher — a big-time closer. i don’t get the indifference to the loss of perez that many people on the board are showing. but the cards do have a pair of flamethrowers at double A, and they’ve got motte in stl and todd at memphis . . . . they can compensate for the loss. but it is a big loss. they invested a 1st-round pick in the guy, and he got the majors in 2 years and has shown flashes of dominance. he’s still learning to pitch; i think there’s a very good chance he’ll get it figured out and have a very successful career.
by lboros on Jun 28, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me I liked Perez
But not Perez with Duncan as a coach. After his “fixes” this spring Perez lost 2-4 mph off his FB and managed to have his control worsen at the same time.
I think he will be good, but never could have been here.
by DriverZn on Jun 28, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely agree
sell while high. we’ve learned from that mistake from Reyes.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sell while high?
Maybe not such a good idea. “I’ll send you Albert Pujols for a bag of Funyuns”
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't see it as indifference
so much as trading from a position of strength. As you mentioned, Motte, Todd, McC, etc. make this a move that strengthens the club without exposing another weakness.
Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals
www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com
by MilCardFan on Jun 28, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure we won't get Holiday
That Holiday press release is probably what pushed this deal. I think this is a great trade. They will trade Ankiel or they get nothing for him.
by OperaCard on Jun 28, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Holliday
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty sure he was talking about the inn
they were trying to score a deal to stay at holiday inn, but settled for super 8
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 3:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
but the wick needs to get his act together
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 27, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they probably talked to the P-D
Because they wanted Cleveland to feel a little heat.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glaus
I assume this means the odds are that Glaus isn’t going to be back this year.
by thepainguy on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was probably the case anyway...
but DeRosa can play 2nd and the corner outfield spots as well. I would hope Khalil continues to see time at 3rd while DeRosa is used mainly in the outfield. Less Duncan and Ankiel can only be a good thing…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
find cd another home
kg at 3rd with skip and dero swapping left field and 2nd
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually read a really interesting article about Glaus
how there is talk that Mo might ship him out at the deadline as a DH or 1B. Apparently his hitting recovery is going pretty smoothly; it’s mainly his arm that’s struggling.
If that’s true, this could be a great chance to land a couple prospects without doing any damage to our current team. Win win, really.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 28, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No trade?
I thought Glaus had to approve any trades? I am guessing that he would approve to increase his FA value.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jun 28, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he has a chance to play, he'll agree to a trade I'm sure
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 28, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would be stellar...
I liked Santa, but yeah, he can’t play 1b or DH here obv so he’s redundant overhead.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jun 28, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"career defensive...
negative" at third. I think he’s hovering around league average at third – according to UZR he was above average two of the previous three years – and he’ll deliver an ops+ of 100-110. For 2009, Cardinal third sackers have an ops+ in the mid-70s. This is a two-win move, which is huge for this team in this division.
by guayzimi on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very happy with this deal
Perez may have the most talent of any of our RH relievers but he is also the least polished. Furthermore, RH relief is a strength throughout the system…so Perez’ long term contribution can likely be filled by others.
DeRosa has really matured into a fine player the last three + years. Also, DeRosa just kills the ball at Wrigley (.858 OPS).
by indakind on Jun 27, 2009 11:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but against cubs pitching?
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 27, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly not
but he should be able to give the Cards a scouting report on their staff and lineup and he is certainly comfortable against NL Central ptiching in general.
by indakind on Jun 27, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
May regret this down the line
but I think this was very important to the season. I love DeRosa, sadly I also loved Perez.
by TheBirds on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jess Todd, Francisco Samuel, Eduardo Sanchez, Adam Reifer, etc, etc
There are plenty of right handed relievers to replace Perez. Francisco Samuel basically IS Chris Perez. Great pitches, no command. For a club that desperately needed help against LHP, I just don’t understand how anyone can not be pleased with this deal.
The defensive concerns are overblown given that he’s replacing some poor defenders at 3B. Not to mention that he might be replacing the LF lefties with Khalil Greene manning 3B against LHP.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 27, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The depth
is what gives this trade potential to be great.
But if we don’t make the playoffs, this is a push at best, and I don’t think DeRosa guarantees us a spot.
by Cardinals645 on Jun 27, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In truth
scouts are saying the same kind of stuff about Adam Reifer and Francisco Samuel NOW that they said about Chris Perez 2 years ago. They all have closer stuff and questionable command.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 27, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Perez is redundant for the Cards. His long term contribution can easily be replaced by others. I would not be surprised to see the Cards offer DeRosa a two year extension because he really fills a need not only this year but going forward as well. The Cards sorely lack RH power bats at every level.
by indakind on Jun 27, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, despite what the radar guns and scouts say,
Perez has yet to pick himself up off of the floor of replacement-level. His walk-splosion this season has just not been pretty.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Samuel IS Perez
in the same way that my Ford Fusion IS a race car. They both drive around in circles on a regular basis—I’ve been known to get lost—but one is doing a better job at a much higher level than the other one.
Given the can’t-miss tag ascribed to Perez all the way up, and the way that he’s apparently missed, I’m hesitant to hold up a bunch of guys with worse track records as a way of suggesting that the Cardinals’ not altogether steady bullpen is flush with depth. Perez is a victim of the Tony La Russa walk-in bullpen, not some invisible regression.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i don't get that last sentence...
… Perez has always struggled command. how is that TLR’s fault?
by kindred on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he looks bad
because he’s been invisible for half the season, not because he’s walked 2 1/2 more batters than you’d have expected him to from his rookie year.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez...
… is like the 4th best RH reliever on the team, and he’s throw 24 innings this year. Motte has only thrown 27. i don’t think his problem was under-use.
and he might’ve gotten more high-leverage chances if he didn’t BB more than half a batter an inning.
by kindred on Jun 27, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got to disagree
he has fallen off because Motte, Franklin, and McClellan all have done a better job than he did. Granted, I believe that recently he has looked better than McClellan. But I do not think that Motte is going to continue to give up the home runs he has in the lats few weeks.
by Evilfrog on Jun 27, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Perez is a victim of never developing command
and losing 2 miles off your fastball. And your wrong if you think Francisco Samuel doesn’t have the same kind of stuff and equally same idea (or lack thereof) as to where said stuff is going. They’re both fastball slider guys. Difference: Perez was drafted out of college, Samuel is from Latin America.
And Adam Reifer’s scouting reports are just like Chris Perez’s as well. The difference there is a previous arm injury.
There were always questions about Perez’s command. . . always. And given this organizations track record for improving command in their prospects (i.e. they aren’t good at it), I’m not sure we should really be surprised that he’s struggling.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a year younger than perez
and he’s walked 28 batters in 31 AA innings so far. Worse numbers at every level. I don’t buy the comparison.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see much difference between a player that's
walking 6 per 9 IP in the minors (Perez) versus a player that’s walking 9 per 9IP in the minors. That level of lack of command isn’t worthy of distinguishing between the two. Especially when they have comparable K rates. Neither pitcher knows where the ball is going.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 27, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one player makes the majors,
the other one is Blake King (who is actually having a better year than Samuel. So let me get back to you with that dismissive comparison player. Greg Miller?)
by DanUpBaby on Jun 27, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree
with DanUp regarding the similarities between Perez and Samuel.
I’m not sure Perez’ control was as bad as Samuel’s, though he certainly never improved much.
Ah, he just beat me to it, re: Samuel’s numbers aren’t as good. At 21 Perez burned through A, and was tearing up AA. Though, there’s time for Samuel to dominate AA in the 2nd half, it’s not a sure thing.
Still, I think if the puts us in the playoffs, and Todd pitches well in the majors next year, it’s a good deal.
by Cardinals645 on Jun 27, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm willing to bet his velocity comes back once he gets away from Duncan
Will be an interesting test.
by DriverZn on Jun 28, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put your internet dollars where your keyboard USB hookup is.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 28, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
just like Anthony Reyes velocity went up when he left Duncan?
Oh wait…it didn’t.
by dcfcblues on Jun 28, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
apology accepted.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 27, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
good point
my thoughts exactly.
godfather of futureredbirds.net
by erik on Jun 28, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But who gets sent down?
If it’s Thurston, doesn’t Khalil pretty much become your every day 3B with DeRosa in the OF? I would rather see more Khalil and less Duncan/Ankiel. That said, I bet Tyler Greene gets the boot to Memphis again…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 27, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody has to get sent down...
… if we go back to 12 pitchers. otherwise, it’s probably Thurston. he’s completely redundant at this point. if not him, then Duncan, and Skip takes some reps in the OF.
by kindred on Jun 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I was assuming they would continue to go with 13 pitchers. But let’s just pray it’s Thurston…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 27, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the robot
When I heard we were getting derosa I was quite happy and still am… plus I have the feeling that he is the kinda guy that will thrive in a place like st. louis… I wonder how he feels about this all
The Redbirds are of the highest priority to me... As it should be
by ANDYAK47 on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can deal with this one
Perez’ walk rates were just unworkable. Yeah he’s got strikeout stuff, but his velo has come down a notch this year plus the walks keep piling up and at best they improve from 6+ to “borderline acceptable”. His ceiling has gotten dramatically lower for me in the past year and change as I’ve accepted he just wasn’t going to throw strikes.
For the rest of the year DeRosa projects as 6 runs above average, our 3B so far have been about -10 so we’re basically adding 1.5 wins with this one.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 27, 2009 11:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
two positives here...
1. this probably means we aren’t trading Luddy for Holliday
2. every jackass who wants Mo to overreact every time the team loses will shut up for a week or two.
by kindred on Jun 27, 2009 11:40 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Oh and #3 this might be the end of the 13 man pitching staff, hallefuckinglujah
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHA, none of these reasons SHOULD be good reasons to make a trade
but given the circumstances, I can’t help but see them as positives as well.
by TheBirds on Jun 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pass the kool aid
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 27, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it better be spiked
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's spiked with the tears of cub fans.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 27, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
one of my favorite
liquids
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 27, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the tears of unfathomable sadness are tasty
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Thursty, too?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jun 28, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope #1 is wrong, and i’ll do what i can to make #2 wrong.
by greenback06 on Jun 27, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
That would be awesome.
As a Cardinals fan in SoCal, my dad is the only Cardinals fan I know, and he IS one of THOSE fans (even writing into Joe Strauss just to complain, rather than ask a question).
Too bad he doesn’t like the trade. Damn it.
by Cardinals645 on Jun 27, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have preferred Holiday...
If you were going to give up Perez.
That said, I’m glad it’s Perez they gave up and not Motte. He just walked too many people, in the minors and the majors.
by DiscoJer on Jun 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why?
DeRosa has pretty much the exact same OPS this year as Holliday, he’s cheaper, can play damn near every position on the field at least halfway decently, and didn’t cost us Luddy, Wallace, or any of our other core players.
this is a much better deal.
by kindred on Jun 27, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my guess
billy b was trying to manipulate the holliday deal to an upper level prospect and cleveland wanted perez, so they blinked
at least i hope this is the way it looks in august
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 27, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday is a better player by far
But Derosa was cheaper, so I agreee.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 5:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cautiously optimistic about this one
I always hold my breath about the PTBNL, but as another poster stated it usually ends up being unwarranted.
by mattyp on Jun 27, 2009 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it...
That would be pretty quick. Probably Monday night…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 27, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking good for tomorrow
From the mothership announcement
DeRosa will wear uniform No. 7 and is expected to join the Cardinals in time for their Sunday game at home against the Twins.
by ubeddie on Jun 27, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected...
Sweet…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 27, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome.
I have tix.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Jun 27, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
flipping back & forth from the Rocks v A's & M's v Dodgers
and the A’s guys can’t stop saying enough good things about DeRo. the A’s are getting blown out so they really have nothing better to talk about. they also wondering if the rumored trade about getting Luddy for Matt is dead. (i hope so!) they love Matt btw.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2009 11:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt just came up with a chance to bring the A's a bit closer to the Rocks
and he weakly grounded out to SS. tolo had time to field it, spin & throw the ball into the dirty, and Matt was still out by 10 feet.
so yes, please let this deal mark the end of the Luddy for Matt deal.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a Chicago fan perspective:
Check out the threads @ Bleed Cubbie Blue. The posters there are crestfallen about this deal. Which, in my mind, makes it very sweet indeed.
This is going to make the team better NOW and that is a good thing.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
by p_lampe on Jun 27, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Link me, I'm lazy.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 27, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmm reading that feels good
It makes me happy that half of them think they have prospects.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 28, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hah
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 28, 2009 5:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Favorite post evar
Like all of you I have a sick feeling in my stomach
but there is two outcomes here:
1. DeRosa comes out and plays 3rd base for the Cards and help them win the central and the way Pujols is swinging the bat maybe the whole national league in the playoffs
OR
2. The cubs come out an use a distraction to help them come back to win the division and maybe a world series…lets not forget 2007 with the Barrett-Zambrano Fight….
“God watches over drunks and third baseman.”- Leo Durocher
by BelieveinBlue2314 on Jun 27, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions 0 recs
How did he even make that logical step?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2009 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait, you're looking for logic among Cubs fans?
Illogical
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
either way
For sheer entertainment value of Cubs v. Cardinals, this is a win. July 10, not that far away.
And here I was so mad at Cleveland failing to rock everyone but the Cards.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 27, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My date with the Cards at Wrigley on July 12
just got sweeter!
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Jun 27, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'll be interesting to see if the Cubs fans at Wrigley boo or cheer him
I always feel like this kind of thing is somewhat defining for a fanbase. Irrationally, probably, but there it is.
by mojowo11 on Jun 28, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They absolute should cheer him
He was traded, and had no say in it. I think the fans will greet him warmly, partly to show management their disgust.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jun 28, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's already played there this season
and they cheered him. That’s one of the reasons Milton Bradley got bent out of shape. He was pissed the fans cheered DeRosa (and Indian) while they booed him (MB) for doing something stupid.
FWIW, cubbie fans have a strange relationship with Mark DeRosa. He’s as close to cult status as it gets there for some odd reason.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 28, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all the better that we have him now
mwuhahahaha!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we don't win the World Series, we lose this deal
as is the case anytime you give up 4 years for 3 months of valuable players.
That said, Perez had to go. After LaRussa depantsed him on the mound in New York last week, he was in the doghouse. Once in the doghouse, only one man has made it out. And that was Brendan Ryan.
I’m happy to have Derosa, sad to see Perez go. The gauntlet has been laid down. LaRussa now has until the end of August to find a game in which the former QB Derosa can play every position on the field.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 27, 2009 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
exactly
My Cards Blog - We're in and out of First & it's June
by dylaninthewall on Jun 27, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"And that was Brendan Ryan"...
Classic…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 27, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one licks a shirt like Boog.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 27, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaRussa sure does force Mo's hand a lot
Rolen, Kennedy, and now Perez.
What can Mo Do, tony barely played the guy.
by TheBirds on Jun 27, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy threw...
almost as many innings as Motte and he’s walking almost 7 per 9. That doesn’t warrant heavier usage.
by guayzimi on Jun 27, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
they aren’t the same type of pitcher either. Perez has the quality stuff to pitch multiple innings, Motte is a thrower who should rarely be used for more than 2 hitters.
Perez is future closer material, he is just struggling this year either through injury or whatever. Like I said, he had to go.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 27, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Future closers don't walk that much....
If I can believe The Baseball Cube, his career minor league walk rate was 6 per 9 innings. Even what he did last year, not quit 5, was too high.
by DiscoJer on Jun 28, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we make the playoffs at all...
… we win the deal. especially if we barely sneak in. i would trade a middling relief pitcher for a chance at the playoffs every year if i had the option.
yeah, it’s possible that Perez figures it all out. but even if he does he’s still a relief pitcher; they’re the most fungible players in baseball. and if Perez doesn’t learn how to throw strikes, then he’s a middle reliever.
by kindred on Jun 27, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say utlility infielders
are pretty fungible too.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not ones that OPS .800...
… and .863 against LHP.
by kindred on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaron Miles was able to put up a .753 last year
.755 vs LHP.
You’d be surprised how easy it is to find one that is a .700+ OPS guy if you aren’t sending Joe Thurston out there every day.
That said, I’m glad we got DeRosa.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't say .700
i said .800.
maybe it’s easy to do, but Ryan, Thurston, Skip, and the Greenes can’t do it.
by kindred on Jun 28, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Thurston is a .700 OPS guy
At least this year…
And Aaron Miles is actually a .500 OPS guy this year.
by DiscoJer on Jun 28, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now...
…since Tony loves dogs, shouldn’t the doghouse be renamed the hunterhouse or something? Just thinking out loud here…
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mo
interview coming up on sportscenter
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 27, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rasmus, Pujols, DeRosa
still doesn’t have the same ring as Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds
My Cards Blog - We're in and out of First & it's June
by dylaninthewall on Jun 27, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It shouldn't.
He’s the utility infielder version of Chuck Finley.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 27, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope he has a better relationship with his wife than Chuck did
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not hard
I went to good ole wikipedia, and I hadn’t realized that not only did Tawny Kitaen beat Mr. Finley up, but she did it with a stiletto heel. Hardcore.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa, Pujols, Rasmus?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 28, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some reasons I like it
-We’re dead last in OPS against lefthanders in the NL, 2nd against righthanders. This addresses the former without hurting the latter.
- We’ll see how he is used, but I think and hope he is used at various positions. Every position he has played in the past is a position we count on a lefthanded bat.
- He is not a defensive star, but every position he can play (3rd, 2nd, LF) coincides with the positions we are weakest defensively…..by far.
- On the (hopefully rare) occasions he is on the bench, he immediately stops the assault by loogy’s we have had to endure. If it’s the 6th, 7th, 8th innings and DeRosa is sitting there in wait, teams are not going to be as quick to push the Ron Mahay’s of the world out there.
- I know we don’t like to talk about this, but it sends the message that Albert is looking for while limiting the long term risk. Not making light of what Perez could become, but contrast this with what it would take for other names floating around, and I think Mo walked the right balance between helping a first place with an obvious need while protecting your very top prospects.
- I think we should be able to offer DeRosa arb and feel ok with the result whether he accepts or not.
I worry because I still think Perez has a ton of upside, but I am less sure now that he’ll get there than I have been previously. I think he could be a very good closer if he gets his control in check.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 27, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this wasn't buying a shirt at macy's
this was bidding on ebay
i think it will look a good price as 7-31 approaches and buyers exceed sellers
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 28, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he does fit the team well...
… that’s for sure.
by kindred on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like it
I’m not generally a fan of losing young and cost-controlled talent for rentals. However, Perez’s issues this year haven’t just been a bit of young lumps….it’s been genuinely troubling to me. His command, never good, was tolerable when he was snapping off nasty sliders (sometimes) and throwing 94/5. That’s not the guy we’re seeing now. Is he hurt? Is he just bad? Is he rusty? I don’t know, but something isn’t right here. It does hurt a little bit to lose young guys with ability, but on the other hand RH relievers aren’t the hardest things in the world to replace either. To be completely honest I’m more worried about the PTBNL.
De Rosa won’t embarrass himself at any of several position on the field and can hit lefties, something that this team hasn’t done for years. Now, I’d be ticked if they went with some kind of 4-year deal or something, but in the short term this should be a big help. I like it.
Hey, if nothing else the Cubby faithful will see one of their favorite sons in the BOB.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 27, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is DeRosa a Type A or Type B
this off-season?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Solid B
per mlbtraderumors link for complete elias rankings
by ubeddie on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNL
may be tied to an extension for DeRosa.
http://twitter.com/miklasz/status/2367646143
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe I'm not twittering this trade!
My Cards Blog - We're in and out of First & it's June
by dylaninthewall on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
better be a very SHORT extension.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
By extension, I’m hoping no more than 2 years. I mean, part of DeRosa’s value is the fact that he can do okay at a couple of spots…but when he gets old and loses athleticism that number of positions shrinks quickly.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
an extension?
So we can sign a 34-year-old 2B/3B for additional years in exchange for another prospect? No thanks.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 28, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading the tweet
Bernie was talking out his ass. “I’m pretty sure…”
Which means “I have no clue, I’m just making things up…”
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seams to be the norm at the PD
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does this mean we can't trust his big mouth?
tip your waitresses, everybody
by DanUpBaby on Jun 28, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just the messenger
It’s likely a choice between two lists. Extension = List A, No Extension = List B. I doubt there’s a way where they don’t get another prospect. It’s just the caliber.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it gets better...
… we’d be giving up the draft pick by letting a Type B go as well.
that said, you have to offer him arb. if he accepts, that’s fine. if he doesn’t, that’s fine too.
by kindred on Jun 28, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
berthiume
cannot pronounce Perez, much less Mozeliak.
I misspell his name on purpose.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hahaha and he asks him
Which position he’ll be playing.
Wherever Tony wants to put him.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he did say the majority at 3rd
thurston better be on a bus to memphis
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thurston was surviving only on grit
And DeRosa has much better stubble. Bye bye, JoeJoe.
by mojowo11 on Jun 28, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good grief, how hard is it to say Mozeliak?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be photoshopped
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst. Photoshop. Evar
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mo is on baseball tonite
picture of mo is awful
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I call it two weeks ago
Here. That being said, I’m stoked, even though I’m sure a lot of people don’t like the idea of letting cost controled Perez go.
I think it’s the right move. Time might make me out to be an idiot.
Anyway. Woooooooooooo! No more offensive black hole at third!
by cloistermaximus on Jun 28, 2009 12:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
segue to Pujols highlights
I like it.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 12:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they're still using "Big Sweat"
“Gonna have to mop up that bag afterwards.”
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it should be noted
as everyone on BBTN raves about TLR using players at multiple positions, that part of the reason this happens is we a crapload of players that aren’t good enough to be everyday players. It’s as much necessity as it is TLR’s virtue.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's okay...
No one takes BBTN seriously anymore…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 28, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know
Thanks goodness for MLBN
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jun 28, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah no kidding
La Russa would juggle players anyway, but if you have just total crap at at least 3 spots on any given night you pretty much just have to throw darts at names for defensive alignment.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 28, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that we've agreed with each other
is the apocalypse tomorrow or the day after?
;o)
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did Eduardo Perez just say that Tyler Greene was saved
because he ‘bailed out of the way of that pitch’?
No shit!?! He got out of the way and that’s why it didn’t hit him as bad? Dynamite Drop in, Monty.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing.
What other choice is there? Smile pretty and see if it can knock all your teeth out?
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derosa
has 63 strikeouts. Duncan is second on the team now with 54 and Ankiel has 46.
Start Colby Rasmus
by indycardsfan05 on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh
i guess we forgot to mention that derosa has .800 ops
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
…so?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derosa has 29 walks...
Duncan is second on the team with 32. Derosa would be third, ahead of Thurston’s 25.
by DiscoJer on Jun 28, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they probably played less too
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im happy with the trade
adds a good clubhouse guy and injects some life into the batting lineup. Start Derosa at 3rd with T. Greene and Ryan up the middle
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Jun 28, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Albert Pujols is ridiculous
[Pujols] will keep them in play with authority.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this highlight reel of Albert is great
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eddie perez
thank you for telling us where every pitch was located during the AB. We wouldnt have bee nable to see that without your fumbling words.
by rlgosnell on Jun 28, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'll be disappointed if
kaheel is completely given up on at third.
start derosa in left until kaheel proves he can’t cut it
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Against LHP
DeRosa in left
Khalil at 3B.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al wins
Joel Goldberg loses.
Today I was telling the missus about the Holliday trade and she was like “Hey, Al lost! That other guy said they should get Holliday instead of DeRosa and now he was right instead of Al.”
Sadly, Al wins. :(
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll never hear the end of it now...
I bet Jimmy is texting him congratulations right now…
V, b.
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 28, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like it.
Much as I would prefer to trade Ank or Dunc right now, both of them suck, and may never recover any trade value. I doubt that Moz wanted to trade Perez but really, who else on the ML roster, apart from Albert, Yadi and a couple of the SPs even HAVE any trade value?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We get it, Mark DeRosa has an attractive wife.
No more pictures of her.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"Once again, Lou may have sparked the team"
Didn’t they just lose to the White Sox? What spark?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's why they said "may have"
Covers ass either way.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 28, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but bradley went 1 for 5
would have been an 0-fer if not for Lou
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 28, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's this guy?
Testicle-exploding shit storm, circa 7/12/08 - We will never forget!
by bjork24 on Jun 28, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mozeliak pulled the switcheroo
brilliant move on his part. That’s actually Kris Perez, low-level Cardinal batboy.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 28, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I've seen that picture for Perez before somewhere
not sure where though
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 28, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that looks like todd
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on Jun 28, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's straight off ESPN's MLB site
Testicle-exploding shit storm, circa 7/12/08 - We will never forget!
by bjork24 on Jun 28, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colby got him with the clippers
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
NOW the facial hair make sense!
They’re just going to put on a fake mustache and get on a plane to Cleveland.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is indeed Jess Todd
Testicle-exploding shit storm, circa 7/12/08 - We will never forget!
by bjork24 on Jun 28, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Jayson Werth went DDDDEEEEEPPPP today.
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
did you see the replays of the HRs in that deck
One was by Manny off Carp when he was a Jay. Manny’s expresssion was classic.
by rlgosnell on Jun 28, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mather
hmmmmmm
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2009 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've sat in those seats in Toronto
that is a BOMB.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How high is that?
I mean can you even see the damn field?
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's the deck that I was in when I was there
maybe 300 feet or so. Well, not really, but I’ve never been that high in the air above a game without the aid of an airplane.
by StanTheManFan on Jun 28, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
barely
you feel like you are looking straight down on the game.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 28, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNL
Hey this is a dumb question but it’s creating a knot in my stomach.. There’s no way that the PTBNL is Brett Wallace or Darryl Jones is it? Someone tell me something comforting.
by Ghosty on Jun 28, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
theres no way its wallace or jones
by rlgosnell on Jun 28, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, it’s possible in some legal sense. but it’s unlikely they bother with waiting if that’s the case. they’re pretty well-scouted by now and it’s not like seeing gary daley for a few weeks will change cleveland’s mind on wallace.
this is probably the wrong place to put this, but i think a lot of folks are in for a lot of disappointment with daryl jones.
by greenback06 on Jun 28, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree on DJ.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 28, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is Jon Jay or Allen Craig
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good guesses.
Bryan Anderson is on the DL right now too making him potentially a PTBNL candidate.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 28, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good trade.....
…if for no other reason that it provides extra angst in the life of Cubs fans here in Chicagoland and worldwide. This is the cherry on the sundae that has been the Scrubs’ season so far (Bradley’s predictable antics, the oft-delayed sale of the team, A-Ram’s injury, Z missing a team flight, etc.).
Sure, DeRo isn’t Rolen, Ken Boyer, Kenny Reitz, Pendleton, Tyson, Sizemore, Grudz, or [insert other better than league average ex-Cardinal here], but the move strengthens our offense, gives El Hombre some hope that the ownership and front office want to get back into the playoffs in a weak division, and somewhat solidifies the lineup.
by chicagojedi on Jun 28, 2009 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so is it too much to hope that this trade ends 1 of these 2 irritations?
1. 13 pitchers
OR
2. Joe Thurston
by kalmavet on Jun 28, 2009 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
13 pitchers
thurston does have some value despite how frustrating he is to watch. just when you want to trade him for 10 bats, he rips a triple to the gap
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
i’d much rather end the 13 pitchers
plus if this moves joe back to a utility role, he becomes less of a sore-spot
by kalmavet on Jun 28, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he hadn't been the worst baserunner...
I recall seeing then I might take this opportunity to defend him a little but. But he has, so I won’t.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 28, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is
Even after the triple, he’s still batting .230. He is also a serious threat to be picked off third base.
In other words, he’s still Joe Thurston.
I was really hoping that this guy would turn out to be useful. He isn’t, Time to pull the plug.
by StanTheManFan on Jun 28, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point being
that he is still more useful than a pitcher who doesn’t pitch
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More useful,
but also more harmful.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter