All's well to ending Todd Wellemeyer?
Is it time to demote Todd Wellemeyer?
I'm not sure it makes sense to have this conversation with the backup starter already in the rotation—it's a little like worrying about tire tread with the donut spare on—but Wellemeyer's game log is uniquely and unceasingly bad; it's hard to pick out a single stretch of any particular length that's cause for optimism. His run at the end of May, where he went 2-1, struck out and walked eleven, and didn't allow a home run?
Speaking of not allowing home runs—you remember this quote from back in May, when we were younger, so much younger than today?
"Total, absolute, chaotic randomness," said Todd Wellemeyer, winning the hearts of the statistically minded. "All we do is try to keep the ball down. Sometimes you give up home runs. Sometimes they hit line drives. Sometimes they go right at people. Sometimes they get underneath the line drives and they're home runs. That's all there is to it."
I loved it at the time and I still do now; if Khalil Greene weren't on this roster it would have no competition for the strangest, most out-of-character athlete quote to escape from the 2009 Cardinals. But back then it was news because he'd allowed zero home runs in April, and four in May; now it's news because he's allowed seven in his last four starts. The half a walk per nine he's gained from last year, the half a strikeout he's lost—moving back toward some home run mean is bad news for a pitcher who's already on the ropes.
What he's got on his side, at this point, is little but a lack of striking options. On the big league roster when Lohse comes back will be WonderBrad, Kyle McClellan, who has been the Cardinals' primary set-up man, and Blake Hawksworth, who was excellent (finally) in the minors but hasn't been called upon much in St. Louis. In AAA there's Clay Mortensen, who is already 24 and probably as ready as he'll be but not exactly lighting the Pacific Coast League afire, and P.J. Walters and Mitchell Boggs, who've already had their turns and have not impressed in their return visits to Memphis.
It's not a group that inspires an immediate and permanent change, and the whole situation brings to mind the disastrous full-season tryouts of Brett Tomko and Kip Wells, two more guys with good stuff and a summer in St. Louis they'll always remember for extreme, ceaseless hittability. (Speaking of which: Wellemeyer's BABIP is still inflated, and his FIP is still below five, but this is not the resume on which a pleasant, lasting career in a starting rotation is built.)
But upside be damned there are enough players at the margins, presumably even more able to struggle through the season—and either faster or, as the red baron contends, at least less haphazardly—than Wellemeyer to make sticking to him without trying the other options a poor use of the Cardinals' resources.
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It is time.
I can’t take any more of this.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Jun 23, 2009 7:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is clearly something wrong with Wellemeyer
His velocity is down and his control has gotten worse; those things tend to be caused by injury or other mechanical problems. He should either be on the DL or in the minors right now working on whatever is wrong with him. Right now, he is clearly not helping the club at all by being on the staff.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 7:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Demote Him
Really annoying quote in the Post this morning from Wellemeyer, like there seems to be after every bad start. Always something to the effect of “Nothing went my way, what are you gonna do?”
What we’re going to do is call up Mitchell Boggs and stop conceding every fifth game. Wellemeyer can take over Hawkworth’s role on the team and if Boggs can get through 5 innings giving up 3 runs of less, he’s an improvement. Not a good one but you have a chance.
by riotmute on Jun 23, 2009 7:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
smacks of kip wells
and his charlie brown routine to me.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jun 23, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he can't be demoted
w/o clearing waivers first. Calling up Boggs would mean demoting Kinney or Perez — not a huge problem, IMO, but Wellemeyer goes into the pen. The other option would be putting Wellemeyer on the DL if he’s hurt.
by chuckb on Jun 23, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or trying to get Welley through waivers
Or trading him to Toronto. They could use me at this point.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot about Blake
Welly turns into the 1 inning long relief
by ubeddie on Jun 23, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Wellemeyer to Memphis would be easy (and rec'd)
Dave Duncan- Todd is your arm tired?
Todd Wellemeyer- Umm… I guess so?
Dave Duncan- Ok then it’s settled, Tired Arm. 15 day DL trip. Report to Memphis for rest and a rehab stint.
by salukihoops on Jun 23, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WELLEMEYER
has been nothing but frustration for me, every game that i have seen him as the probably starter i just pray we have enough offense to win the game, and seeing as we just left KC which that sunday game was amazing to be at, the mets are not the royals…
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on Jun 23, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
These Mets are the Royals
Reyes, Beltran and Delgado are on the DL and Wellemeyer still gets hit all over the place.
by ubeddie on Jun 23, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remain in the entirely unconcerned group regarding Welly
seriously.
He’s our fifth starter when everyone’s fit. Fifth starters, as a group, totally suck. As with pinata last year, we’re completely over-reacting to the fact that OUR fifth starter sucks. He’s still about average for a fifth starter.
Yep, he’s lost about 1mph in average FB velocity, which is fairly important, but he’s not pitched THAT much worse than last year, taken as a whole – half a K less, half a BB more, as Dan says – it’s significant, but I think there’s an argument that he just maybe over-achieved a bit last year.
I wouldn’t be aversed to seeing Boggs up in his stead, and I think Welly might be better off as a long man (perhaps) or given some time in AAA to work through a few things (his repertoire has changed a bit this year too – he’s been throwing that curve and change a bit more, maybe thanks to his inability to pitch to lefties and the fact that other teams have been stuffing their lineups full of them), but really, I’m not losing a lot of sleep at the fact that our fifth starter is about a league average fifth starter (in fact, a bit above). You could just as easily complain about the fact that our number 2 (Waino) is, as per his 2009 results, a below-average major league #2.
If pinata hadn’t become effective all of a sudden this’d be more of an issue but seriously guys, most of our AAA pitchers are likely no better than Wellemeyer and he’s our #5. Fifth SPs suck. I am surprised we’re not used to that fact by now…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 8:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably right about the Memphis 4
but I still think if Boggs was given more than a couple regular turns in the rotation he would show to be more effective than Wellemeyer is right now.
What’s the latest on Lohse?
by paposse on Jun 23, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lohse is apparently feeling better
has a personal target of something like July 20th I think I read, most other reports have said shortly after the ASB.
You might be right on Boggs – I like what I see so far from Mitchell and I want to keep him (i.e. not trade him away for DeRosa etc) but he’s not been great in AAA this year. He might be better and I wouldn’t mind making that move, but, in all honesty, I don’t see it being a big upgrade over Welly. Walters and Mortensen really don’t excite me much (though I think PJ could be a useful reliever if he can shorten his warm-up; both his change and his slider look like + pitches, I think it’s just location and his mediocre fastball that let him down in extended starts).
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rest of the "5th starters" in our division:
Cubs:
Wells (3.02 FIP, not gonna last) & Marshall (4.82 FIP)
Astros:
Take your pick of Paulino (4.82 FIP), Ortiz (4.50 FIP, injured) or Moehler (5.54 FIP), although one of these guys is their 4th starter (i.e. Pineiro).
Brewers:
Again take your pick – Suppan, Looper, Bush or Parra – all have FIPs over 5, Bush is the worst at 5.83 FIP so let’s call him #5.
Reds:
Micah Owings (5.10 FIP) – you could argue he’s moved ahead of Bronson Arroyo (5.42 FIP) in the pecking order.
Pirates:
Jeff Karstens (5.21 FIP).
Our current opponents (Mets):
Tim Redding (4.84 FIP)
FOR COMPARISON: Todd Wellemeyer, 2009 season, 4.85 FIP.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still, a 4.85 FIP is hardly good, and it is probably what we could expect from Boggs/Walters
The difference is that those two might have a future on this club, while Welly almost certainly doesn’t. Also, as I mentioned above, there are signs pointing to a physical problem with Wellemeyer that could be improved on the DL or in the minors.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He isn't saying it's good.
He is saying it sucks. Because he is our 5th starter. And they suck.
Chances he makes it through wavers? I’ll say about 0%. He could easily be pick up by the Brewers and improve their rotation.
by Evilfrog on Jun 23, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
DL or bullpen then
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, sure
I think it’s fine to bring up Boggs for Welly’s starts, as I said in the original post; I just don’t think he’s likely to be that much better.
I still don’t think having a poor SP as your 5th starter is that big of a problem; I’m not saying we shouldn’t do everything in our power to correct it, but just that people should get this in perspective.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
But Welly is just a slightly above average 5th starter, while Boggs/Walters/Mortensen could end up being better than that it the future.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But also realize
TLR and Dunc shouldn’t be comparing him to those guys, he should be comparing him to Thompson, Boggs, Walters, Hawksworth and Mortenson. (And maybe he’s still better, but just saying..)
by paposse on Jun 23, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather fix 5th starter than 13th pitcher v extra bench player issue
by ubeddie on Jun 23, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what is the "fix"?
2 win pitchers don’t just grow on trees. None of the guys who might be freely available (Paul Byrd, Odalis Perez, Pedro) are likely to be substantial improvements, and all will cost money that we could be paying to a 3B or a RH OF…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try the kids
If the alternative is to expect to lose every fifth start, then try something. The kids (PJ, Boggs, Hawk) are on the 40 man roster and a demotion to the pen might be the kick in the ass Welly needs. Welly looked like he didn’t really care that a bunch of AAAA players were smacking him around.
by ubeddie on Jun 23, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not against doing that
but it’s facile to believe that replacing welly with boggs will “fix” the situation. I like Boggs, a lot, but realistically he’s going to be a career mid-to-back of the rotation starter, and he’s likely no better than a decent #5 now. I mean, he might be better than welly but I wouldn’t bank on it. Most projections reckon he’s going to be just above replacement level, which is what wellemeyer’s been so far.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fix is probably the wrong term
I am in favor of Attempting a Fix versus Standing Pat. Boggs might not be much better than a decent #5 but has the potential to be an improvement over Welly current effort.
by ubeddie on Jun 23, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's probably fair
I like Boggs, like I said. Still, I’d give Welly a couple more starts to see if he can turn things around. I think right now he probably has more chance of becoming useful at the major league level in the short term, but I agree it’s probably close. Shame there’s no garcia this year…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Boggs has potential to be a whole lot worse as well
Remember the 22/13 BB/K ratio of yesteryear?
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 23, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
Hawksworth’s been a nobody at the high minors far beyond the point when he ceased to be a prospect (I realise he’s been better this year), and Walters, Mortensen and Boggs have all struggled this year to be productive pitchers at AAA. They’re good for 6th and 7th starter depth, but I just don’t see these guys magically becoming average MLB starters overnight.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I don't think we should expect to lose Welly vs. Redding
Certainly he is overmatched against the front of the rotation guys, but if a majority of his starts are against back-end guys its not much worse than a 50-50 proposition
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. When he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting." Brian Bannister
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh.
it’s too easy to just say all fifth starters suck so its ok that welly sucks…we can improve over welly with either boggs or mortensen in my opinion….so why not do it…its about maximizing your roster ability and potential
whether or not 5th starters are supposed to suck is irrelevant…what is relevant is that we can upgrade our fifth starter very easily
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference between between Wellemeyer and the kids
is that they can learn NOT to suck in AAA. I put forth the same sediment as Felonius Monk last time Welly sucked. As long as the match-ups are correct, every fifth game is their worst pitcher against our worst pitcher. We have won at least 6 games Welly has pitched, so it’s not a Kip Wells (or Anthony Reyes) situation where we are losing every time he’s out there. Is he doing good? No. But he did do okay last year, so let’s see if he can turn it around before we let the kids go out and possibly suck too (which is worse if they can’t recover from it [cough, Anthony Reyes,cough].
by thp0344 on Jun 23, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we can upgrade our fifth starter very easily
As you said, that’s “in your opinion”. Welly has the potential to be better (as he showed last year) and isn’t too bad (as I said) for a #5 guy. Boggs and Mortensen have both been mediocre at AAA both this year and at times in the past. I like Boggs, like I’ve said, but it’s not a slam dunk that he’s any better than THIS version of Welly right now. His ZiPS projection for the rest of the season is really bad, worse than Welly’s, and although that’s based partly on his poor performance last year, I just don’t think you can say “Boggs/Mort are upgrades over Welly right now”. It’s just not that clear cut.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 24, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few FWIWs from attending the game last night:
1. Is Boog officially now everyone’s favorite player, in the “Non-rookie, Non-Pujols” division?
2. Albert was hitting moonshots in BP – easily in the second deck. Just monsters. We are going to be talking about this guy for a few more years, methinks.
3. Just how bad is his elbow? A couple times between innings and when T. Greene entered the game it was almost like a game to see if he could throw it past the defenders during warmups. He was throwing short-hop bullets…makes me think he is feeling pretty good.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. When he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting." Brian Bannister
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 8:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1) No, I like him a lot (especially cause he went to my friends high school), but I would have to say I still like Carp, Waino and Luddy better
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, crap, should have qualified "non-pitcher" too..
0.5*Carp > 2*Boog
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. When he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting." Brian Bannister
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luddy, Molina THEN Ryan
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I miss something last night?
Did Ryan make a running catch in the left field corner?
by sdrone on Jun 23, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan has been a fav of mine for awhile
but he is not my favorite.
I have been a fan of Ryan’s since he was in Memphis and “had no future with the Cards”. I always saw him as a wash with Eckstein (though I doubt he will ever match Eckstein’s peak) but I also really enjoyed watching Eck play so I was stuck with following Ryan at Memphis. But I didn’t buy a Ryan jersey I bought a Molina one. Molina is by far my favorite Cardinal right now, though if it came down to losing Albert or Molina I would rather lose Yadi. Albert just isn’t in my list of “favorites” since to me he is more of an entity that makes the others what they are, it is weird but I consider Albert to be THE Cardinals not just A Cardinal if you know what I mean. After Molina is probably Wainwright who I have been a fan of since his first AB HR in early 06 and then probably Ryan.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jun 23, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan =

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he isn't
He’s actually athletic.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
Eckstein never came close to Ryan’s defensive ability. If Boog can maintain his OBP at this level he is an EXCELLENT long-term answer at short…unfortunately I have my doubts.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 23, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno if he's *quite* as good defensively as he's looked either
but nonetheless he’s looking like he belongs at the major league level. An above-average defensive SS & 2B with a replacement level bat is still a useful thing to have. Also, I believe he hits lefties pretty well – I’d argue that (from a platoon standpoint) that’s more useful than having a similar fielder with no platoon split; we can more or less protect him vs righties and use him heavily when a lefty’s on the mound. He’ll probably end up being more valuable in that scenario than he would as a mediocre hitter from both sides would be.
And his GORP is OFF THE CHARTS.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grit Over Replacement Player?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOU KNOW IT
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where can I find this picture, unedited?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check RB's River Front Blog
Their is a water mark on it but can be edited out
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still like this one best

Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about a brave little toaster
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those eyes stare into my soul
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just noticed how Duncan's hand is all jacked up
Looks like he is about to start the reactor on Mars
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get your ass to Mars!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like this?

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
by jacksonian on Jun 23, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh wow
I wonder if he likes his women trashy or demure? And does he meet Kuato?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kuato?
Isn’t he a 2nd year pitcher with the Reds?
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he ain't grit worthy
but that is an outstanding pic
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 23, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#1
I think it’s easy for Ryan to endear himself to the fans because he’s un an underdog and a hustler. Cards fans more than any other seems to appreciate that. On top of that he’s becoming a contributor. I no longer think “automatic out” when he steps to the plate. I don’t know if he has a higher ceiling than what he’s doing for us right now but he definately stepped up when KG had to go to AAA. Go Brendon!
"I don't take no anesthetic. Did Lincoln ask for any girlie gas when they blowed his head off?"
by boba schrute on Jun 23, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not mine
He’s certainly growing on me, but he has a long way to go to pass Wainwright and Rasmus, among others
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 23, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. nah,
that’s waino. including the pujols and rookie divisions.
2. who?
3. better than the last several years, but he’ll probably need tj surgery in the next few years
by prophetjohn on Jun 23, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the caption on the photo
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I realise rosenthal's a douche
but did anyone notice the rotoworld thread on the left of the main page, that glaus might be starting a rehab assignment soon but still can’t throw from 90 feet? What do we make of that?
I’m not at all sure about trading him away – I can’t see that any team will give up anything for less than half a season of a recently-injured 1B/DH who might not hit as well as he did in ’08….
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 9:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he becomes.....
the righthanded power bat off the bench that a Mather or Freese were suppose to be.
Gonna be tough to get and keep his timing just pinch hitting, but if he can hit, he just about has to be on the roster. I really don’t see a team dealing for him, as he isn’t going to have proven much, if anything, by the deadline.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 23, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
kinda hard to have him JUST as a pinch hitter, though. I’m guessing if he can’t throw from 3B he won’t be able to throw from LF either. I suppose he could play 1B for Pujols on his occasional days off, and then just pinch hit once a night for the pitcher or whoever in a double-switch.
I can’t really see how the source of that article is simply suggesting that because he can’t throw 90 feet NOW that he won’t be able to do it after a month or so on a rehab assignment – I’m kinda hoping that this is a good sign for Glaus, but I can’t really work it out from the story…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he also has a no-trade clause
so we might HAVE to have him as a power hitting pinch hitter (if he indeed has any power left)
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still he'd just be a pinch hitter for a while
If he can contribute with the bat while doing his arm-strengthening work, then that’s great.
The gravy is that it’d almost certainly mean the bullpen would go back to 7 arms.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
by liam on Jun 23, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh you silly man
A 7 man bullpen? That’s crazy talk! Nobody has a 7 man bullpen, it’s… wait, what’s that you say? We didn’t always carry 13 pitchers on the roster? Damn you Tony! Up is down and left is right, nothing makes sense anymore…
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind having his
.958 career vs LHP
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading deadline isn't a factor
Teams won’t claim Glaus and his salary if he is placed on revocable waivers after July 31st, so he can be traded easily between now and the Aug 31st for post season roster purposes.
by ubeddie on Jun 23, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glaus still has a full no-trade clause, right?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 23, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OTOH, he'd surely waive it to be a full-time 1B/Dh somewhere
rather than sit on the bench and pinch hit once a day, right?
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 23, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think so
The 2009 plot thickens… I wonder which teams might be interested?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst Teams OPS for DH's
Red Sox .696
Angels .730
Tigers .740
1B
Dodgers .717
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has Loney really been that bad?
Anyway, I would think somebody would be interested. Trading Glaus to the Angels would just be funny.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured out our problem...
our 1B is too good. (Dodgers and BoSox probably the best two teams in baseball).
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 23, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
There does seem to be a correlation there!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
UKOLISS has done pretty well for Boston last I checked.
If you don’t know how to spell it…butcher it!!!
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 23, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially considering...
looming free agency. He could make himself many millions of dollars with a strong/healthy second half.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Jun 23, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need him at 3rd...
bad. 680 ops for 3rd baseman and 681 vs. LHP… Maybe he could relay it to the pitcher on his throws to first.
by guayzimi on Jun 23, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three Nights in August, redux?
Maybe TLR is planning to have him flip the ball to Boog for the throw to first, a la the dangerous Pujols-in-left experiment from Three Nights in August…
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Jun 23, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cringed when I read that...
VivaElBirdos...Scoring less, but more frequently since approximately 1903.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 23, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF he comes back healthy and IF we trade for DeRosa
How about an IF of
Glaus
KBot (assuming (stupidly) that his 4-game renaissance is legit)
DeRosa
Pujols
against lefties?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 23, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, I'd take KBot at 50% of his current rate with the stick.
Plus he actually looks pretty good at 3b.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 23, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really like any of our internal options
Part of me says, start plugging them in and see what happens, however, Welley is still good for a decent start every other game and we are 7-6 when he takes the mound on the year.
That’s not bad..
As long as he doesn’t completely lose the ability to go 6 and give up 2, I think you just need to keep him where he is until Lohse returns.
by boilertiger on Jun 23, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kind of agree w/ you on this
at this point, it is essential to limit the rotation to one fill-in guy. Let Lohse get back and start throwing, then make the call for Colonel vs. PuppyKicker as both will have 1-3 more starts to show from. If the Colonel does continue along this path, then PK stays in the rotation, and Lohse essentially replaces Welley.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 23, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's assuming
that Thompson doesn’t pitch worse than Wellemeyer over that same period of time. That’s certainly a possibility since Brad’s career FIP is worse than Welley’s current one.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welemeyer
The league is batting .316 against him (lefties higher than that) he allowed 14 runners on base last night against a AAAA ball club. I personally would like to see some other option with the younger pitchers.
Who knows, might catch lighting in a bottle. At least you can’t do much worse and you will be looking at prospects.
by ridgesee on Jun 23, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
His WHIP last night was 2.471 (!)
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OUCH
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Colonel
I would argue that Wellemeyer has been substantially worse this year than last. It makes me wonder what last year’s workload did to him physically. As noted above, he seems to have symptoms of an underlying injury: drop in fastball speed and a little less control. (Not that Wellemeyer ever had great control.) Last year, The Colonel pitched 191.2 innings in his first full season as a starter. His previous career high was 79.1 in 2007 when the Cards plucked the discarded Royals reliever off of the scrap heap and began having him start. In fact, from 2003 through 2007, he had thrown a total of 240.6 innings. In 2008 and 2009, he has tossed 277.3 innings.
Last year, he struck out 6.29 batters per 9 innings. This year, he’s K-ing 5.53. Last year, he walked 2.91 batters per 9 innings; this year, 3.75. Not surprisingly, his K/BB rate fell from 2.16 last season to 1.47 this season. His falling K rate appears to be indicative of a loss of stuff as he has already allowed 107 hits this season in 86.1 innings pitched. (This number is in bold face on Baseball Reference, which leads me to conclude he has allowed the most hits in the league.) For context, last year Wellemeyer allowed 178 hits in his 191.2 innings pitched. If Wellemeyer throws 191 innings this season, he is on pace to surrender 224 hits. Not surprisingly with the uptick in walks and the leap in hits allowed, Wellemeyer’s WHIP is astronomically high, going from 1.252 last year to 1.656 this year.
There’s no question that Wellemeyer’s 3.71 ERA did not represent his 4.51 FIP. However, who expected a 4.85 FIP and 5.53 ERA as the 2009 regression? I think there is unquestionably reason for concern. However, if we look to the 2008 staff, haven’t Wellemeyer and Jo-El merely switch roles? The problem, of course, with this suggestion is that the overperforming Jo-El Pineiro does not have the K rate of 2008 Wellemeyer. It makes me wonder how much longer it can be until we have two starter getting peppered around the yard every fifth day.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
but don’t forget we’ve also “swapped” Braden Looper for Chris Carpenter this year. That’s pretty substantial.
I wonder if Pineiro’s success might be (to some extent) sustainable this year – even if he regresses quite a lot, Welly’s been better than 08 Pinata and Pineiro’s been better than 08 Welly, so far. I’m guessing every one of our five rotation spots will be more productive this year than last. Waino was worth about 2-ish wins last year (Carp’s nearly beat that already I think), Lohse was worth about 3 (Waino will hopefully beat that, or at least be near), Welly was worth about 1.5 (Lohse should hopefully beat that, even with his injury lay-off), Looper was also worth about 1.5 (Pineiro is on track to beat that, even if he regresses a bit) and Pinata was worth less than 1 (Welly’s on track to be about a 1-win pitcher this year).
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just by having Waino and Carp healthy, the rotation as a whole will be worth more wins, IMO
However, Lohse missing extended time will reduce his value. I think Pineiro and Wellemeyer combined will be about equal to last season when all is said and done. I base this on my belief that Pineiro is not going to maintain his current performance/luck levels. I also think that, if Wellemeyer is not injured (which I think he probably is), he will get a bit better. I don’t know where he is going to pick up velocity on his fastball, though, which means my belief may be off-base as to The Colonel.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if pineiro regresses back to his pitching of last year for the rest of the season
he will still end up being about an average pitcher. He’s going to have to absolutely fall off a cliff and become a below-replacement-level pitcher the rest of the way to wind up being as bad (over the course of the year) as he was last year. He’s already worth over 2 wins. If Wellemeyer doesn’t get injured he’s likely to post a similar WAR total to last year simply due to the fact that he missed some time with injuries last year – of course, this doesn’t factor in the production of his replacements last year, but as this was mostly Boggs and Parisi (both of whom were below replacement level in 08) I think you could argue he’s on track to be almost as valuable over all.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about Wellemeyer's injury last season
You’re probably right about his WAR, if he makes all of his starts. Looking at Pineiro’s line this season, I’m shocked at how similar it is to Wellemeyer’s from last year, minus the strikeout rate (as I said above). Maybe he can keep it going. As always, time will tell. The Wellemeyer situation will work itself out in the end. These things tend to do just that. If he winds up on the DL, then we’ll see what his replacements have as compared to him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pinata's been so valuable this year
because of the lack of HR (HR/9 = 0.22 so far). Of course, he’s been uber-lucky in that respect and it won’t continue. But I’m kinda hoping the K/BB ratio is real (it’s more that he’s cut out the BBs by attacking the zone with his cutter, rather than K’ing more, IMO, so I think that’s repeatable) which should at least make him average the rest of the way.
We’ve all pilloried the pinata contract but, in actual fact, even if his HR rate regresses to the norm, he’ll end up being worth it at this rate…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pillorying the Contract
I’ve done as much as anyone. What foresight Mo has to know that Pineiro would be positively horrendous in 2008, but then be one of the top pitchers in the NL (in terms of WAR) in the second year of his contract and to pay him accordingly. Brilliant…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Pineiro’s been better than 08 Welly, so far."
Pineiro is 7th in NL starting pitcher WAR. For those that care about that sort of thing.
I found that astounding. Wow
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
by jacksonian on Jun 23, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially given that
Fangraphs’ WAR seems designed to underrate guys like pineiro.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 23, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His mechanics are different
Everything has been done to reduce stress on his elbow. He is stepping through and getting to far forward to throw a successful slider. Since his fastball is weaker, all off his speed pitches are less effective. When you get to far forward on your release, hitters can time you so much better. He would have to throw 25% change ups just to defend that position.
by OperaCard on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the workload issue is a good point
Another example would be Ryan Dempster. He’s not as sharp as he was last year.
I also wonder if part of this is scouting; teams have a better understanding of what he’s trying to do.
by sdrone on Jun 23, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Felonius and boilertiger
As a fifth starter, we shouldn’t expect moonbeams out of ass good. He’s better than avg as a 5. As boilertiger points out, Welley will throw a decent game from time to time. What more can you ask of a 5th starter?
Dare I say that it’s almost common knowledge that a dude who substabtially ups his innings one year comes back to the pack stuff-wise the next?
I like the build from within philosophy a whole bunch, but the guys we have at AAA are from the “building depth in the system” days. In other words, if those guys are “the future,” well, I just got depressed. The true pitching upside guys have just begun to be drafted. Until they develop, I don’t think we can expect much impact from our system’s starting pitchers.
Given all that, I say the Birds should ride the Colonel until he completely breaks down, kinda like my first car.
by Scarecrow7775 on Jun 23, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
scary part being
is if Pineiro goes back to being a #5, then we have 2 guys that barely should be in the rotation
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
scary part for Milwaukee being
that they have FOUR of those guys right now. But they’re somehow still in this race. Crazy. If, for any reason, Gallardo goes down, they’re toast…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it time to panic?
Kent Brockman: Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it’s time for our viewers to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?
Professor: Yes I would, Kent.
Obviously it hasn’t been fun to watch Wellemeyer this year, but I think a big question is whether we can afford his 5th starter production going forward. Thompson is filling in for Lohse for at least a few more starts, and Piñeiro is doing a Wellemeyer 2008 impression as the surprisingly effective starter. I have no idea what to expect from Lohse when he comes back. Is this an injury that could hamper his pitching, or is he a good bet to just heal up and be effective again? I’d say, then, that at least 2 other members of our rotation are somewhat question-mark-ish and maybe it is a good idea to do something about Wellemeyer soon. But as fifth starters go he’s not exactly the worst thing in the world.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Department of the Treasury Field
I’ve now watched two televised games of the Mets’ new stadium. I have come to the conclusion that is ugly in a boring way. I hate the black outfield walls. The inner architecture sticks out to me as dull in an unaesthetically pleasing way. I also hate their “Inaugural Season” jersey patch. It is ugly and looks like a Domino’s Pizza ad. If I were a New York taxpayer, I’d be very angry that they used my money for such an ugly monstrosity. Of those in the community who have visited the other new stadium in New York City, what did you think of it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't been in the new one
but I went to a yankee game about this time last year, with the new stadium almost finished, and I had a nose around, as best I could with all the security fences etc. It looked pretty impressive from the outside.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 23, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Citi is actually quite nice when you are there
The outfield walls are definitely a point of contention, but the concourse and amenities are great. The entire stadium is pretty intimate – the upper deck provides great views – with the exception of a couple sections of obstructed view seats.
The patch, though, is totally bush. That style is like a theme at the park. They are the Mets, lets not forget.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. When he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting." Brian Bannister
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might make a trip in August
What with the Francis Bacon exhibition at the MoMA and the Cardinals playing a pair at The Treasury…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did somebody say Francis Bacon?

There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bacon picture is gone.
Leaving aside general issues of whether it was in good taste, as someone who reads VEB at work, that’s not something I’d like popping up on my screen.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 23, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good taste? Try great taste.
Seriously, what’s better than bacon?
"It starts at the top with the manager."
-- Clint Hurdle, when asked what's behind the Colorado Rockies winning 17 of 18 games
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I haven't eaten bacon in years
on general principles of health.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Jun 23, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Robots don't believe in moderation?
Besides, I would think that the grease would be good for some of your robotic joints and whatnot.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
give the robot a bacon baconburger
I’m off to go find some bacon
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FLAGGED!!!!!!!!!!!1
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its about time you showed up
"It starts at the top with the manager."
-- Clint Hurdle, when asked what's behind the Colorado Rockies winning 17 of 18 games
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hehe. Probably fair enough.
Apologies for any offence caused.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 24, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may not be a New York taxpayer
but if you’re a tax payer at all, your money may still be going to the stadiums name.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 23, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Which is why I want the name changed to “Department of the Treasury Field.” We could then call it “The Treasury” for short. And, we could replace their ugly patch with something featuring this:

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The Trez"
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 23, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it just me
But getting a stadium named after a Business especially a financial one is a kiss of death?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrigley is still doing okay, last I checked
by mojowo11 on Jun 23, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrigley and Busch were both after people
not companies, at least that is my understanding of both names.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Jun 23, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I remember a story about how Busch (the original....Sportsman's) was named.
And it wasn’t originally after Augie. Something like they wanted to name it after one of their beers but were not allowed by major league baseball so Augie said “okay, we’ll name it Busch, and just kinda act like it’s named after me”.
I’m paraphrasing…………to an extent and wikipedia and google are no help to me right now.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 23, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty correct
The commish shot down Budweiser Stadium, so they named it Busch. Then, about two years later, they introduced Busch Bavarian Beer.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 24, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
As dangerous a game it was, TARP actually seems to have worked as intended and the government is actually going to get a profit on this one, not to mention banks are paying back much much faster than anticipated. The “stimulus” package on the other hand ugggggh…
People I’ve talked to about Citi say it’s kinda blah as well, I think I’m going to be in New York sometime this summer so I’ll have to check it out. It’s been hit or miss on New Yankee stadium. No matter what the number of HRs still remains a joke.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 23, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on TARP
I’m still holding out hope the the stimulus is going to pay long term dividends, even though it was sold as a short term stimulus. I think the problem here mainly lies in the fact that the new administration simply didn’t have the personnel in place to properly execute the stimulus package when it was passed and I still don’t think they have enough people to vet proposed projects as stimulus worthy. When Joe Biden is personally vetting projects in Kansas, as he said on Meet the Press a week or so ago, that’s a huge problem. There should be lower level personnel vetting the projects with HUD leaders giving the go ahead, not the vice president.
Did we need the stimulus? Yes, I think we did. Would having coupled it with health care reforms been a much, much better opportunity? Yes, it would have. Would that bill have ever gotten out of the House under Nancy Pelosi? No — she doesn’t have the political clout to steer center-right Dems into voting for a health care package.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad this isn't a political blog
because I’m sure we could go back and forth all day. I shall restrain myself though.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once I start I can't stop
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty much the heroin of blog posts
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 23, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was Star Trek references?
Maybe that’s just my own personal blog heroin…
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
and I get the feeling I would be outnumbered here, so it’s probably in my best interest to go get some lunch.
mmmm…lunch
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i suggest jimmy johns
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
by jacksonian on Jun 23, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I went with Hardee's
And as I was biting into my delicious Western Thick Burger, I thought to myself: why does the commercial for the western thick burger feature an Eastern woman?
Oh well. It was tasty
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's
a cookbook author and she hosts Top Chef.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and is amazingly HOTTTTT!!!
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 23, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't she
Salman Rushdie’s ex-wife too?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Padma is
And let write, in the faint hope that a Hardee’s ad buyer is watching, that they need to ditch the ad with the guy eating a burger that replaced the Padma ad.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I had Jimmy Johns yesterday
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Love Jimmy John’s
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" - Jeff Francouer
by jd is legend on Jun 23, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know how you feel
Although I have to say that, when the inevitable dalliances into politics occur, even if they are serious and not entirely in jest, VEB’s system of check and balances usually intervenes before anything really bad happens. And in this instance, we see some very levelheaded and intelligent opinions rather than ad hominem attacks or infantile sloganeering. So kudos, VEB.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one thing I want to say
Is if you guys are interested in political stuff check out
Nate Silver formally of Baseball Prospectus runs it. It is Politic’s by the numbers which I enjoy.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It used to be about the numbers.
Now it just seems like propaganda.
mmmm….bacon.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 23, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest, I've never given it much of an extended look
It’s always been obvious whom Silver roots for, so even though it seems very technical and numbers based, I can’t get past a pre-existing skepticism about what he might have to say. Furthermore, I waste too much time on political sites and blogs anyway and don’t really need to follow yet another.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am a Cardinal Fan
Does that mean I can’t rip on the Cardinal’s?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all
First of all, I don’t think baseball is even comparable to politics. Despite the passions that we display about sports, the consequences of baseball outcomes pale in comparison to political outcomes, so there is simply more at stake and politics is much more serious business. I would think it is easier to be objective about something that is entertainment than about something that matters as much as politics. That’s a personal bias of mine, probably.
But my main point was supposed to be that, even if FiveThirtyEight is totally capable of being objective, there is enough evidence to the contrary that I have not given the site its admittedly fair due. But that’s not much of a loss in my opinion because I’m perfectly happy getting similar information from other sources. I wish people like Silver, who are ostensibly committed to “by the numbers” style analysis, would leave the partisan stuff and just focus on the numbers. It’s not that I completely 100% doubt his analysis, it’s just that I know the site is enough of a liberal-leaning one that I’m not particularly interested.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll leave the actual political content alone and just say,
I think baseball is extremely comparable to politics. There are tons of people all over the news and airwaves who basically do nothing but spout age-old fallacies and bullshit conventional wisdom. And there are tons of people like the Stl PD boards who do nothing but drink the kool-aid from a particular side and regurgitate the talking points without a hint of critical thinking or rationality. And I don’t think Silver is one of them in either case.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 23, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is my view also
Nate also goes pretty in depth about his methodology in most of his work. I just don’t get the vibe he skew’s his data.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I never said he skews his data
Some people seem to think he does. At some point I built up enough doubt of Silver that I decided not to bother reading him, that’s all. I’m mostly just uninterested, I don’t have anything against the guy.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just sounds like
You don’t like Silver not because you think he skews his data but because you don’t like the results
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly I've never seen many of his results
I followed him a little bit during the election but he couldn’t compete with the other stuff that I was more interested in. There are only so many interweb political sites I have time for, and the combination of things I described led to me just feeling very meh about him.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think most of the similarities are superficial
the same could be said about any part of human life that tends towards tribal behavior—food preferences, musical taste, nationality, etc. etc. etc.
I just mean that sports and baseball, in terms of their real-world effects, are different enough that I don’t like comparing them very much. There’s the old phrase “elections matter”; this is a wise saying. Just look at the presidencies of Roosevelt, Johnson, Reagan, etc. They profoundly and broadly impact the course of history itself. Baseball, on the other hand, is a game. It’s entertainment. We get all worked up about the World Series, but a few months later it’s old news and we’re trying for this year.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the politics actually matter that much, however,
and I don’t think the similarities are superficial when almost everything about the behavior is the same.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 23, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what is wrong with political discourse right now
It’s constantly about deciding which way the “country” is headed, but very little is decided at a national level. Presidential candidates don’t usually even visit half the states more than once. It’s about special interest groups and minorities that represent the middle 1/3 of the voters. The country isn’t right leaning or left leaning — it’s pretty much in the middle — which is why a Congress with a huge Democratic majority in either house can’t get far left policies passed: The Jim Webb’s of the world won’t vote for things like this since they are center-right Democrats. I personally don’t have a problem for this because guys like that simply stand up for what they and their constituents believe in and that’s the highest form of representative government.
I like to watch Fox News, well, the news portion anyway (Hannity and O’Reilly I can’t stand — blowhards), because it helps me get perspective on how the far right thinks. I would consider myself a moderate progressive, I voted for Obama, but would have voted for McCain in 2000 had he won the nomination (and before he started his hard right pandering).
The biggest issue for me is that very rarely do you see a politician come out and say what he thinks because it can be taken completely out of context and he’ll get killed in one demographic or another and it will be reported as “news” when it’s just opinion. I don’t like the politicization of the news media and we’ve lost a ton of journalistic integrity due to pandering to one side or another and the meddling of news company ownership in how stories are run. There isn’t a paper of record anymore, there’s one for the right and one for the left. It’s upsetting because democracy really shouldn’t work this way yet it does in almost every post-industrial country.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
I pretty much agree with your points.
Although I wonder how much the internet and plain old dissatisfaction will disrupt the news media, especially newspapers. I really don’t think the forecasts of papers all but dying out are that unrealistic. I think eventually the combination of superior information sources and widespread frustration at the slanted coverage will doom them if they don’t do something drastic to correct their overreach.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how you think this makes it better
Although I wonder how much the internet and plain old dissatisfaction will disrupt the news media, especially newspapers. I really don’t think the forecasts of papers all but dying out are that unrealistic. I think eventually the combination of superior information sources and widespread frustration at the slanted coverage will doom them if they don’t do something drastic to correct their overreach.
Most bloggers have little to no credibility, so they can be labeled as partisan. Those that do have credibility end up getting labeled anyway. This discussion started with you stating the you don’t read Silver’s blog, which is one of the more neutral sites out there, because you perceive it to have left leaning bias. How, then, does Silver contradict your feelings toward his site if he’s just reporting what his analysis tells him, which looks biased to you because you don’t necessarily agree with it.
We’ve become a culture of non-critical thinkers and we love to hear someone agree with us, which is why people like Olbermann, O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck attract so many viewers and listeners. It’s fun to hear someone blather to you about how you’re getting screwed by the other guy and pander directly to your personal feelings. There’s no level-headed discourse anymore, just talking points, commentators screaming at the television and congressman swearing at opponents on the floor of the House and Senate. It’s sad that people can’t sit through more than one good speech a year that lasts longer than 45 minutes (State of the Union).
I personally enjoy Rachel Maddow’s show (although if I told a card carrying Republican that I’d be labeled a “liberal” which I’m not). She keeps things on point and doesn’t have any issue with giving it to Democrats that aren’t living up to promises and statements that they’ve made. John Stewart and Steven Colbert are also great at exposing hypocrisy’s on both sides of the isle — although they’ve both been labeled as purely liberal partisan’s as well. I don’t always agree with everything those three people say or report, but that’s good, because not everyone in America agrees with me and we need to be able to look at things from different perspectives than our own to develop good policy decisions.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I wasn’t really thinking in terms of Silver anymore, but that is of course a very good point. Perhaps I should revisit my (admitted) preconceptions about Silver. One of my main points, however, is that there is a wealth of good stuff out there and I don’t really feel like I’m missing out all that much by not reading his stuff. But I will try to be more openminded about him in particular.
What I meant about the internet and all that is that it’s so much easier to find other sources of information now. With a newspaper, you sit down and read the paper. You feel like you’re informed about what’s going on. But more and more people are realizing that they can’t rely on a single source like that anymore. Editorializing has bled into the news reporting so much that it’s almost indistinguishable. The internet at least offers a much wider and more easily accessible range of choices. It would be a pain to subscribe to ten different newspapers and decide for yourself which ones had the best reporting about which topic, but it’s a cinch to do much the same with the internet. The convenience of getting all your news from one source, a paper, has been counteracted by the biased reporting. The internet offers the best of both worlds. It is convenient, and with more choices it is easier to find a variety of sources and viewpoints, so you can decide for yourself who makes the most sense.
As for blogs and the like, there is of course rampant partisanship, but I didn’t really mean opinion blogs when I was talking about news sources.
Again, I agree with you about most of your political points. The level of discourse is frightening. I have had some painful conversations with people my age about politics. One of the reasons these tangents are so easy to get into at VEB is that the level of discourse tends to very high no matter what the content. It is very gratifying to be able to have these kinds of conversations with people daily, even if it does distract from baseball.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What website could survive without the newspapers?
Almost every political blog, which offers opinions and deconstructs press releases and articles and columns, is filled with links to mainstream media reporting. I don’t see a way for blogs to exist without newspapers. This goes for news and sports coverage. Even our own, blessed VEB is reliant on the access that the P-D beat writers have to the players, coaches, and front office. Sure, we could never cite to the P-D and just do statistical analysis and observation based on watching broadcasts, but we would have no insight into trades, managerial rationale, front office workings, etc.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get that point
But I guess I’m more optimistic than most that other “legitimate” news sources will start springing up. I can see a future where a reporter from a fully online source breaks a story, or gets to ask a question at some news conference, etc. etc. As the previously existing mainstream sources lose credibility, couldn’t replacements start to cut into that? So far as press credentials, stuff like that? Maybe I’m being unrealistic.
Also, I’m not thinking only of “blogs” and the like becoming news sources, I’m thinking of actual, direct news sources other than the big boys of the newspapers and networks.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
imagine VEB members asking Tony questions at post-game news conferences
How long would we last?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
by jacksonian on Jun 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wouldn't understand most of the questions anyway
Tony, have you by any chance looked at any of the defense-independent measures of Wellemeyer’s performance? Do you think maybe he can expect some helpful regression as his bee-ey-bee-aye-pee shifts back towards league average?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't say it
bah-bip?
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yahoo News
does all it’s own reporting, for the most part. I also think that mattybobo is right on one subject: I do think that a lot more freelance journalists are going t o be doing investigative reporting by contract and for various websites in the future instead of mainstream newspapers. Yahoo could easy afford to pay for in-depth investigative journalism and then sell that content to major newspapers and such. It will be a much better way to go for journalists as well, I think.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'm thinking of
Thanks for doing a much better job of providing actual examples than I did!
Blogs are one thing, but there will be more actual news sources and reporting, independent of the currently establish mainstream media, more and more in the future.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just waiting for Google News
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a Google News...
Or am I not getting something?
It’s mostly a Drudge Report-style approach, taking stories from a variety of sources.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
It’s basically like The Note, Drudge, etc. You can search specific subjects and get alerts. It is basically a search engine of various other news sites. What I meant, and did not at all convey, is that I am waiting for Google to start its own news site with its own independent reporting.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pessimistic that that will ever happen
As with their waffling to the government of China shows, they really have absolutely no need or want to provide a news source and I think they realize the implications that could have on the rest of their business, particularly advertisements.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you're right about that
The China stuff has been very disappointing. On the other hand I have practically come to assume that there will eventually be a Google everything.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not afraid of the collapse of the main stream media in general
I am afraid of the more in depth reporting such as the illegal wire taps by the NY.
You are right though about the decline of political discourse in America. It just seems like people are looking for someone to pander to them about their own agenda.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I am afraid of the more in depth reporting such as the illegal wire taps by the NY.
In this particular case, we’ve already lost. The LA Times was the best at this and it’s in the process of being completely neutered from doing anything investigative. There’s a reason why Chevy Chase’s “Fletch” worked at the Times: he was an investigative reporter and that’s what the Times is known for.
I think there are some decent blogs for this, the problem is that most of them focus on celebrity gossip and bullshit like that instead of issues that really matter.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You watch PBS Frontline
They are probably the best in depth reporting not in Print in America
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes -- I don't miss many episodes of Frontline
Dan Rather Reports on HDNet and Bill Moyers Journal on PBS are also both excellent for this type of journalism.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shows like these make me less afraid
While Print in general is going into decline shows like these are actually showing stronger support.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only watch
The News Hour with Jim Lehrer. Of course, I don’t have cable. (Don’t be mad, fourstick.) I love the fact that they have a five-minute roundtable with experts in a subject area rather than a 30-second segment with a reporter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PBS 4 Life
No Cable either
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would really like to help you out with that
If you’d only let me :-)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Chevy Chase's 'Fletch'"
I prefer Gregory McDonald’s “Fletch” to describe the character. I love the films, don’t get me wrong, but the books are absolutely wonderful. It’s sort of like comparing Bogey to the printed pages of Hammett and Chandler. I’ll take the books.
This reminded me of an interview I saw on Bill Moyer’s Journal with David Simon, the creator of “The Wire.” He said that the lack of investigative reporting in newspapers would be the downfall of good governance at the local levels in America because there were no reporters with institutional knowledge reporting on the interworkings of city and state government. Here’s the quote:
BILL MOYERS: I read something you recently told “The Guardian,” in London: “Oh, to be a state or local official in America…” without newspapers. “It’s got to be one of the great dreams in the history of American corruption.”
DAVID SIMON: Well, I was being a little hyperbolic. But-
BILL MOYERS: But it’s happening. I mean, it’s becoming true.
DAVID SIMON: Yes. It absolutely is, it absolutely is. To find out what’s going on in my own city I often find myself at a bar somewhere taking, writing stuff down on a cocktail napkin that a police lieutenant or some school teacher tells me. Because these institutions are no longer being covered by beat reporters who are looking for the systemic. It doesn’t exist anymore.
And this is not all the Internet.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great link.
thanks.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once Again
Why “The Wire” is the best show ever
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
As media companies become more “profit driven” they have moved away from local level journalism and onto stories that generate sales. Nobody wants to hear about systemic government problems at the local level unless they involve rampant scandal (via sex, money, or crime). You’d be better off as a mayor of governor to just do nothing than to subject yourself to a possible firing squad of scandal.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that interview.
David Simon is a smart guy who’s all over the place. His stuff about the war on drugs affecting not just citizens but also the composition of the police force was very interesting.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 23, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree
We have the system we have. Because of inertia, nothing really changes. We are like McGrupp and have to tend our sheep no matter what happens. Sheep gotta be tended no matter who is in charge, and the sheep eat grass, doesn’t change.
by ckeiner on Jun 23, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not on my lawn, they don't
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 24, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know some people think it leans to far left
But Dem’s are in power and currently more popular.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My problem is that they're clearly not objective
so I have a hard time trusting their numbers, non Presidential results not with standing.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 23, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read it often
And I pretty much hate all govt officials. I don’t really pick up bad skew’s of numbers. I think Nate is pretty honest.
That is like saying CHONE numbers are skewed to the Red’s. What’s the point? Most of Nate’s work is projection work with polls.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the truth of the matter is
there is no “far left” in America… it is either moderate or far right
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True Dat
America doesn’t know what Left wing is. America only had Central and Right Wing. Just look at Europe for a true left wing.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Russia,
Politics discusses you!
"It starts at the top with the manager."
-- Clint Hurdle, when asked what's behind the Colorado Rockies winning 17 of 18 games
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Except, uh, in most of the rest of the world
the wings are reversed. heheh.
by sdrone on Jun 23, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just made me think of nationalized healthcare
i’m scared
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I love about this debate:
- The opposition states that the government can’t afford a federal “single payer” plan to ensure that everyone who doesn’t have coverage can get it and those who don’t want coverage from their work can receive it.
- The insurance industry states that it can’t survive because it can’t compete with a single payer federal plan.
These are both opponent views and also are both complete paradoxes of one another. If the government started a single payer plan that covered everyone who isn’t covered and had electable coverage for those who want it either the government plan survives (and makes money) or the insurance industry is forced to compete, sparking a wave of innovation in treatment, research, and cost reduction for patients which would make us all better off.
If the insurance industry can’t compete with a federal plan that is only affordable when the plan pays for itself, then they’ve been making money hand over fist simply by not covering people who pay monthly premiums — a clear conflict of interest. The less care I provide to people who pay for it, the more money I make. The insurance industry should be looking to save money on the other side by reducing costs for care, standardizing medical recording practices, negotiating for cheaper rates from doctors and health clinics, but it’s far cheaper and easier for them to screw the people that don’t have the money or political willpower to fight them.
This is a terrible system that needs reform. When the opposition to reform is in charge of a system that is rewarded for not paying claims and not covering patients who have paid premiums and who expect care, and then claims that the government can’t afford to fix it those claims fall on deaf ears to me.
I’m not saying a single payer federal system is the answer, perhaps better oversight is, or federally run hospitals that don’t need to turn a profit.
I do think that we’d be better off economically if people could afford to pursue better jobs and better work if they weren’t tied to employer benefit packages. I know I would be better off if I could pay a competitive rate for insurance on my own and reap the benefits of my employers plan as increased salary.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This country needs health care reform above everything right now
Most people don’t realize the most expensive thing Bush did when he was in Office was not the two wars but actually the prescription bill act. Healthcare is going to bankrupt this nation if it is not gotten under control.
I am favor of National Health Care if we can model it after one of the many other quality National Health Care systems. I am just scared this nation is so corrupt that it will not be done right. Speaking of Nate Silver posted a great post about just that. How when you receive more PAC money you are less likely to vote for a Nationalized health care system.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to have health care
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until you get sick and they find a reason to drop you
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad experience?
I’ve had an apendectomy (sp?), spent a week in ICU & Intermediate care at Loyola Hospital after a skull fracture that was followed by 10 days at the Rehab Institute of Chicago for physical and speech therapy, a broken wrist, a dislocated knee cap, and numerous other sprains and sicknesses, but have never had any problem with any insurance I’ve ever had. I’m not saying you can’t get screwed over, but as long as you pay your premiums and monitor your deductible you should be fine.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Illinois, as in most states I am aware of
you cannot be dropped due to claims. You can only be dropped if the company exits the entire state.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 23, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's less about being
dropped and more about the very, very, very fine print. I sincerely hope you never have to find out the hard way what your insurance company won’t cover.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
been there too
but I won’t go into detail. I’ll just sum it up: preexisting condition.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know enough to talk intelligently on the situation
all I know is that the less the government runs the better off I feel. I owe my hospital a good chunk of change, and with a high risk pregnant wife am only going to owe more, but the last thing I want is a hospital ran by the government, with a bureaucrat deciding which procedures and surgeries, ect, are worthy.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you rather have an Insurance company deceide
One that could which drop you for no specific reason only to save money?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we need to stop
so without going into detail, yes
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*bangs head against desk*
Back to baseball, mother effers!
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 23, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For real.
This is ridiculous.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TLR FOR PRESIDENT 2012
LA RUSSA ME GUSTA!!!
"It starts at the top with the manager."
-- Clint Hurdle, when asked what's behind the Colorado Rockies winning 17 of 18 games
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he better choose Oquendo for a running mate
to get the Latino vote
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the reason why that argument really doesn't stand on it's merits
When your insurance company decides to not cover you, you have very little recourse other than to sue them, which is a timely affair and will cost you much more than the actual medical bills most of the time, because they are second only to big tobacco in spending on outside legal services as an industry. Also, you basically never get a reason why you’ve been refused coverage or why you’ve been dropped by the insurance company that you’ve paid tons of premiums to.
If you were on a government plan similar to the one in England, not only are they very unlikely to not cover you, they’re also going to have to provide with a verifiable reason for not allowing you the procedure, which you can have medically thrown out by your own doctor and a second opinion.
Even without a single payer option, like they have in most of Europe, you would still be able to put a face on who is denying you coverage and have rights as a taxpayer to have them discuss it with you and give you alternative options for coverage. If you don’t like it, you can speak with your vote and try to convince others to vote with you. You have a voice and a person to talk to about it with a federal plan, currently you have nothing but a faceless adjuster, a faceless corporation, and their faceless lawyers to complain to.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where do you get your information about European Healthcare?
(honest question)
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, where do you get your information regarding American healthcare?
Because most of it is flat-out wrong.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 23, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't asking in a smart ass way
and I’m just talking from my personal experience and understand that’s a small sample size
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only on VEB
can we bring sample size into a healthcare discussion! I LOVE this place.
I understand your frustration. As an insurance agent, I have lots of clients put into the same “pickle”, and I’m not sure what the solution is.
However I have friends both in England and Canada that are ex-pats, and they absolutely loathe their healt care systems.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jun 23, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have the sides reversed
I want nothing to do with national healthcare
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was an excellent piece
in The New Yorker (I think) about the English health care system and how it evolved from the reconstruction after WWII. When you read about how some of this stuff is done in other countries, you really look at the American system and see how fucked up it is.
The world leader in science, industry, and universities really shouldn’t be 47th in the world in health care.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which ranking are you referring to?
And what are the criteria?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're below
Latvia in infant mortality. Go USA!
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mainly bevcause we do a much better job of reporting it.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
by SleepyCA on Jun 23, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a libertarian I can agree with your sentiment,
but you have to try to sound less naive and callous. Dozens of people literally die for lack of insurance every day. The system is an abomination of subsidies and disorganized state and federal programs. Health care reform does not necessarily equal nationalized health care, and to call it that is red-baiting bullshit.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 23, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a baseball game in a couple hours guys
Can we focus on that? I would hate to see these political discussions creep in around VEB on a “more than once” basis. There are plenty of other forums to debate your well-intentioned points.
"It starts at the top with the manager."
-- Clint Hurdle, when asked what's behind the Colorado Rockies winning 17 of 18 games
by all4tookie on Jun 23, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swing a little libertarian every now and then
I think it would interesting to see the HIRDORP (Health Insurance Related Deaths Over Repalcement Plan) for each country, park adjusted for population of course. I would almost wager the US would be towards, if not at, the top.
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is,
we survive all the bad cancers at much higher rates than everyone else. Everyone.
The problem is we have 20-60,000 extra deaths from bullshit deaths like untreated trauma, etc.
Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.
Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU
by hazel on Jun 23, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that doesn't make any sense.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 23, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a far left
but they have no voice and numbers are microscopic.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 23, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the media would never cover them
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems awfully vague
But, I think a lot of this “far one way or another” is relative to one’s own position. People tend to associate with people who think similarly to them, therefore skewing what is either “moderate” or “normal”. Therefore if someone is different in the other direction then they seem to be much more “extreme” than they might actually be.
Typically, a person feels what they believe is often moderate or much closer to it than might actually be true. I’m sure Rush Limbaugh has followers who feel he’s the most fair and moderate person out there. Does that make it true? No, but it’s all based on perception.
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 23, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't even have a steady Anti-War voice in Congress
Outside of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 23, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's funny
because I just had my recording of Y & R cut off because of a presidential address…
kidding…I hope
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what doesn't make sense about it?
perhaps there are multiple definitions… our media tells us that some things are far left, when they are really moderate. if you look at the definition through a lens of world politics, the people that the news are calling extreme liberals or “far left” are actually moderates in a global sense.
that’s all I got, back to baseball…
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"back to baseball"
One thing I definitely agree with 100%!
I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.
by Tackle Box on Jun 23, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the lens of world politics can easily become a strawman
All left-right comparison are relative. The “global” senses of those terms are no more “true” or “eternal” than the particular ones. Since American political conventions are the ones that matter most, I have no problem with our definitions of “far left” differing from that of Venezuela or France. It does make for interesting conversation though.
I mean, I LOVE BACON AND ALBERT PUJOLS. LET’S BEAT THE METS WOOHOO!!!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying
we’re a little insulated from the rest of the world. and the rest of the world knows this.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to live like the rest of the world
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was basically my original point
It is important to be aware of the different political situations around the world, but it shouldn’t become some we base our own standards on. And I wasn’t trying to accuse anybody of doing the same, I was just continuing to talk about politics because it is BLOG HEROIN WHY CAN’T I STOP???
I tend to be sensitive to that kind of thinking, it leads to things like transnational law taking precedence over the Constitution, stuff like that.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
not saying to alter you standards, just to be aware of political stances
4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 23, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it does.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are fewer
polls to look at right now.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on Jun 23, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it's not too hard to hand pick a poll
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 23, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read it every day
I just hope the politics itself doesn’t totally divest into number crunching and “special interest groups”. Wait, that’s already happened.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read FiveThirtyEight every day, too
Nate Silver’s baseball work actually led to me doing very rudimentary numbers analysis for a good friend of mine’s run for the statehouse, which he won. (I’m not claiming that my analysis was the reason.) I think that the numbers work in baseball can definitely be applied to politics (as well as other areas). I think that Silver’s Election Eve projections were very accurate and I found his work very, very interesting. I also love the international political analysis on the site.
I didn’t mean to spur a political debate with Department of the Treasury Field. I just prefer the name and the logo. (I love the federal government’s department logos stylistically.) For what it’s worth, I also held out hope for the logo being put on Man U’s uniforms.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 23, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet the Man U fans were pretty pissed about that stuff
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 23, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I work at Citi and can guarantee you
that none of the Taxpayer money is going toward naming the stadium. Not that any of you would believe me anyway.
Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
by stlhulsey on Jun 23, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the government has a majority stake in your company
I find that to be a hard argument to believe.
It does look like some of these banks will be paying the taxpayer back at a profit, so that’s a good thing.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 23, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The money was Escrowed
before the housing bust. The commitment to naming rights was agreed upon early, and the money was set aside. So all payments to the Mets are coming from the escrow account, which TARP money doesn’t touch.
Albert Pujols is ridiculous.
by stlhulsey on Jun 23, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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