Just Wanted Some Input

I had a Cards fan tell me that Zack Grienke is over hyped. To which I replied, "If he was in your system, I wouldn't hear the end of it."

Now I want to know what you guys would think if ZG was in your system. Would you be excited? Herald him as the second coming of Bob Gibson? Would he be a better prospect than Colby Rasmus? Where does he fit in?

I value the opinion's of educated Cards fans like yourselves, not the mind-boggling fools that give Cards fans a bad name here in the Royals viewing area.

5 months ago 306008 11 comments 0 recs |

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if zack greinke were in our system, i'd turn cartwheels down the street.

so would pretty much everybody else on this board. i wouldn’t call zack a prospect really.

i’d have a hard time comparing him to colby. colby seems like a perennial 5-6 win player. i’d probably prefer him to greinke just because he’s a CF and not a pitcher, thus not nearly as likely to lose time to the DL. on the other hand, greinke has been worth 4.7 wins just so far this season. i don’t think he continues at quite this pace, but he’s still a cy young contender (favorite?) this year at 7-8 wins by the end of the season. If I thought he was a perennial 7-8 win pitcher, i’d sure say that he’s better than rasmus. but he could definitely be a 5-6 win pitcher for many seasons.

i wouldn’t compare him to gibby, just because gibby is special. he put up eight consecutive seasons without an FIP over 2.83. greinke just doesn’t have a track record like that. maybe he turns out that way, but it’s too soon to make that comp.

there are homers in every single fanbase. don’t take one guy to heart. we’re generally a pretty good lot.

i think most of us would agree there’s a lot to like about the KC system, certainly more than there was to like 4-5 years ago.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 18, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

lol to the first line

4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 18, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

how could he be overhyped? he is the best pitcher in the majors right now

4B - beer baseball bands blog
history tells us again and again how GOB points out the folly of man

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 18, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks to you guys who have posted.

I tossed out some names just to see some comps… I was talking about prospect status a few years ago. I should have been more clear.

I was also wondering what a better pitching coach (for instance, Duncan?) would do with ZG? What kind of effect who that have? And what kind of effect would changing leagues and facing a pitcher every 9 batters have?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Jun 18, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

there's been lots of research done on the varying effects of changing leagues

with regards the DH etc. I don’t think Greinke’s season so far is indicative of his true talent, he’s not THIS good but I think he’s got to be one of the top 10, perhaps even top 5 pitchers in baseball going forward. Honestly, I’m not really sure what Duncan could do for him. Dunc’s successes over the years seem to be taking overlooked pitchers (often with mediocre stuff) and turning them into pretty effective groundball machines. Greinke has awesome stuff, already has pretty excellent control, and is a bit more flyball-orientated than your average Duncan project – I’m not sure he could teach him anything really.

I would swap anyone on our roster or in our organisation, with the possible exception of Colby Rasmus (and obviously Pujols) for Greinke. The only pitchers I would rather have (not taking contracts into account at all) are Santana, Lincecum, Halladay, maybe Sabbathia and maybe a healthy Webb.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 18, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, you can't overlook the carpenter example. dunc has in the past coached other

ace types, as well, but you’re right, his forte is mediocre pitchers.

dunc’s only real advantage for greinke would be in helping him through any slumps or lost effectiveness. so, if greinke struggled after the ASB or at the start of 2010, i could see dunc being a useful coach to greinke.

but right now, i agree, you don’t mess with success.

now, if he could work on turning soria back into a member of the rotation . . . .

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 18, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I lived in KC during the 2004 summer of Greinkemania

First off there is no doubt that he is a different kind of pitcher. I remember reading that in one of his rookie year starts, his slowest pitch was about 68mph and his fastest at about 95, and that he hit all but about 4 speeds in between. Again, like others have said, Duncan isn’t a raw talent kind of pitching coach, but a veteran feasibility expert, which goes back to his Dave Stewart/Bob Welch days when you really start looking back.

What I think would be more interesting is to see the effect of a veteran ace on the staff with Greinke (i.e, a Carpenter/Kile, heck, maybe Andy Benes) to give some STL examples, in regards to his approach and game preparation. I think that has a lot to do with the mindset of young players, and with pitchers, honestly, there are probably only about 10-15 starters in the league at any given time that fit this mold.

And if he were in St. Louis, there would be shrines erected in his honor. Plus, isn’t he just a natural ballplayer who actually would be an above average hitting pitcher?

by Expatcardfan on Jun 20, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greinke

threw a curve at 50mph during a game, I think. Crazy.

Anyway, ZG’s talent level reminds me of Rick Ankiel’s as a pitcher. ’Cept Ankiel went nuts and forgot how to pitch, and we know the story from there.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Jun 21, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so . . . what you're saying is that zach should start taking BP, just in case?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 22, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Greinke were a Cardinal

He’d probably be second only to Albert in total mancrushes. Rasmus would be a contender based on his good rookie performance and our expectations of him going forward, but Greinke’s personality would decide it once and for all. He has supplied an inordinate amount of fantastic quotes and anecdotes at a very young age. I would like to see some funny quote comps to see how he stacks up against some of the greats.

There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".

by mattybobo on Jun 19, 2009 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Again, thanks for all the opinions

It seems as though you caught us as we were playing horrible baseball… although that seems to be fairly consistent with Royals teams of the past. I’ve enjoyed the good opinions from you guys. Good luck to you the rest of your season.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Jun 23, 2009 8:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs