Trade Deadline Deals - Not this year, don't worry!

by stlfan on Jun 15, 2009 11:52 PM EDT Comment 25 comments

Within today's main post someone made an interesting point; or at least it seemed interesting to me. The poster asked the question (and I paraphrase) "When was the last time the Cardinals were sellers?" I figured that I would take a look at as many trades as I could for as long back as I could handle.

2009 season
December 4, 2008 - Traded 2 PTBNLs (Mark Worrell and Luke Gregorson) to San Diego for Khalil Greene. Buyers.

2008 season
July 26 - Traded Anthony Reyes to Cleveland for Luis Pedermo. Neither buyer nor seller.
January 14 - Traded Scott Rolen to Toronto for Troy Glaus. Neither buyer nor seller.
December 15, 2007 - Traded Jim Edmonds to San Diego for David Freese. Neither buyer nor seller. Seller, if I had to choose one there.

2007 season
July 31 - Traded a PTBNL (Sean Danielson) to Boston for Joel Pineiro. Buyers.
June 22 - Traded a PTBNL (Chris Lambert) to Detroit for Mike Maroth. Buyers.

2006 season
July 31 - Traded Rich Scalamandre to Atlanta for Jorge Sosa. Buyers.
July 30 - Traded Hector Luna to Cleveland for Ronnie Belliard. Buyers.
July 5 - Traded Terry Evans to Anaheim for Jeff Weaver. Buyers.
December 7, 2005 - Traded Ray King to Colorado for Larry Bigbie and Aaron Miles. Neither buyers nor sellers.

2005 season
December 18, 2004 - Traded Daric Barton, Kiko Calero, and Danny Haren (ouch) to Oakland for Mark Mulder. Buyers. (or so we thought...)

2004 season
August 6 - Traded Jason Burch and PTBNLs (Luis Martinez and Chris Narveson) to Colorado for Larry Walker. Buyers.
March 21 - Traded Matt Duff to Boston for Tony Womack. Buyers.
December 31, 2003 - Traded JD Drew and Eli Marrero to Atlanta for Jason Marquis, Ray King, and Adam Wainwright. Both buyers and sellers.
November 21, 2003 - Traded Tino Martinez to Tampa Bay for PTBNL (John-Paul Davis) and Evan Rust. Sellers. This is the first example I could find going back. Davis and Rust never made the bigs. Martinez went on to put up an .823 OPS for Tampa that year and hit 23 homers and had 20 doubles. This was a salary dump, BUT the big thing here is that it was in the offseason. It still was not a trade deadline dump.

Before that, the next salary dump/sale I could find was trading Dustin Hermanson to Boston for Dustin Brisson, Luis Alfonso Garcia, and Rick Asadoorian. None of them made the majors as well. Again, this was an off-season deal. (December 15th, 2002.)

The most recent trade deadline dump could be July 31, 2001 when we traded Jason Christiansen to San Francisco for Kevin Joseph. Joseph threw 11 innings in 2002, his only major league experience. The next season was his last in professional baseball. Jason Christiansen, at the time of the trade, had thrown 30 games for the Cardinals that season (and 21 the previous season in a partial season with the Cards). He was having a good year with the Birds on the Bat and finished even better with the Giants later.

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Edmonds was definitely a "sell"

or at least, a salary dump.

I miss hector luna. Please reacquire, mo.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Jun 16, 2009 3:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed, but you can't call it "sellers."

when he asked to leave town and we granted him the wish and because of declining age and injuries he had not given us “Jimmy Ballgame” numbers in a while.

by stlfan on Jun 16, 2009 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry...at least not COMPLETELY...

by stlfan on Jun 16, 2009 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jason Christiansen hurt a lot...

Case of selling when you should have been buying…they hold onto him, maybe they win the first series

by DiscoJer on Jun 16, 2009 4:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

especially since we had turned jack wilson into jason christiansen.

wouldn’t it have been nice in there to have a free home-grown SS for six or so years?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 16, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Edgar did fine

St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/

by vivaelpujols on Jun 17, 2009 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

jack wilson's value

not hating on edgar, but . . .

2004 WAR: 4.3 wins
2004 salary: $1.9M

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 17, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reyes transaction should be classified as a seller

I doubt that the Cards were targeting Perdomo and asked Cleveland what will it take to get him (definition of buyer in my mind). I would group Tino and Edmonds in the same category (both sellers).

by ubeddie on Jun 16, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Important Note:

The important thing to realize here though is that while the Reyes, Edmonds and Martinez trades were “seller” trades, they weren’t “throw in the towel” trades.

It’s been a long long time since the Cardinals were sellers in the sense that they’re giving up on a season and looking to rebuild. Especially considering the prospects that came back in all those trades, none of which were really considered impact prospects.

by mtalken on Jun 16, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Funny isn't it...

So many people complained about that JD Drew trade. That was a good trade.

So many people thought the Mulder trade was a great trade. That was a bad trade.

What will the consequences of next big trade be?

by Schnurdog on Jun 16, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i hated

the mulder trade because i thought we couldve traded someone other then Haren, but i liked Mulder as well, the jack wilson trade for christiansen was fair value i thought, but in essence the shortstop wouldve been better to keep, even though Renteria was worth getting to me, and Eckstein was the world series mvp

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Jun 16, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same, A lot of people thought it was a bad, bad deal at the time.

BP did a writeup of why it was a bad idea. Basically those that could look past Mulder’s “Wins” saw a pitcher that was in rapid decline. Haren on the other hand looked promising. The BP guys went so far as to predict that he would outperform Mulder in the very first year of the deal, he did. The rest is history.

When it comes to pitching there is no sure thing.

by DriverZn on Jun 20, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Surprising ....

Needless to say when I saw “Trade” in the headline I expected a weak one paragraph talking about who we should trade for. I am happy to see you actually put some work into this. Good Job.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 16, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Terry Evans!

man, I’m glad he never did anything.

"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah

by Alxfritz on Jun 16, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Mulder trade was the biggest bust

of any I’ve seen the Cards make in my 17 year lifetime. Dan Haren is now an ace for Arizona, and Mulder is a free agent who piled up a terrible record and ERA in St. Louis. It would’ve been alright if Mulder hadn’t gone down in 06…

Welcome to Baseball Heaven.

by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 16, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Mulder’s 4 seasons prior to coming to St. Louis looked like this, on average:

18-8 in 30 games started
5 complete games
2 shutouts
212 innings pitched
145:57 K:BB
1.211 WHIP

I would have taken 10% worse in all categories if he’d have stayed healthy for those four years.
4 complete games
1-2 shutouts
191 innings pitched
131:63 K:BB
1.33 WHIP

by stlfan on Jun 17, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's a reason the Cards don't sell

You’re a “seller” when you have a massive excess at a position, or you have totally fallen out of competition. The Cardinals are seldom in either of those positions.

Look at this as a very good thing.

by JWO on Jun 22, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would argue that the Cardinals should have sold in 05 and 04 when they were already 10 games ahead at the deadline

St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/

by vivaelpujols on Jun 23, 2009 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sold then? Why?

You’re looking to keep your dominance going, rather than diminish it. Any chance you have a shot at a title, you’ve got to take it. That’s the whole goal.

by stlfan on Jun 25, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Cards looked like a lock in 05

They shoulda sold their #5 starter as he wouldn’t have had an impact in the playoffs anyway. Guys like Jason Marquis are nice for regular season depth, but they don’t really help in the playoffs.

St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/

by vivaelpujols on Jun 25, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs