Drafting a Masterpiece
Well, the game didn't go so well last night, but I'm much more optimistic about the draft.
I've already committed my thoughts on the walkoff that Motte gave up to paper(well, technically, to bandwidth), this morning, so I'm not going to rehash that whole deal. The offense continues to struggle, but I was actually encouraged by what I saw from them last night. This wasn't getting shut down by a career minor leaguer; Josh Johnson is a hell of a pitcher, and the Cards put quite a few runners on base against him. Then again, my cautious optimism should probably also come with a qualifier, as they were unable to put the knockout punch on Johnson early, and there were still several innings in there that if you went to get a beer at the wrong moment, you likely thought the Marlins were being allowed to bat twice in a row. So baby steps, I suppose.
I do, however, have quite a bit to say about the draft, and what the direction the Cardinals took may mean in the long run. I shall attempt to keep it brief, as the draft starts back up in a little over an hour, but we all know that brevity is not my strong suit. We'll see how it goes, I suppose.
First off, I have to tell you, I think the prime time draft thing was a complete and utter disaster. What am I basing this on? Honestly, very little, as I haven't seen any sort of ratings numbers or anything, but last year, I switched with lb so that I could have draft day, and ended up with a double header and the draft all on the same day. I feel tethered to my computer now, but nothing like that particular afternoon. Still, even with not one, but two Cardinal games on that same day, the morning thread had over a hundred comments, and the draft thread after the Cards took Wallace at 13 had almost 300. (By the way, I had completely forgotten that last year's draft fell squarely in the middle of what I like to refer to as VEB's "David Bowie period.")
Last night's draft thread, on the other hand, garnered a measly 62 comments. First off, I'm curious if any of you have any insight; was the draft coverage here not as good this year, was it because several other places were doing live draft things, or what? Largely, though, I think the evening time slot is just terrible for the draft. I don't know why I think that, only that I do.
Onward to the actual picks themselves: first off, let me tell you how excited I am that the Cards took Shelby Miller. Was he my first choice? No, nor was he my second choice, honestly. I was on the badwagons of Chad James, the high school lefty who went one spot ahead of the Cardinals to the Marlins (Couple more days like yesterday, and I could really start to dislike the Marlins), and Matt Hobgood, who went off the board way earlier than I expected, to the Orioles at #5. But frankly, the main reason I wasn't all over Miller was because I didn't think there was any possible way he reached the Cardinals' drafting spot. Miller was the second highest rated high school righty, right after Jake Turner, and I hadn't heard constant talk of signability with Miller, so I believed he would be gone several spots before the Cardinals.
Funny thing is, when Miller was there, I barely even noticed. I was still upset by the Marlins/ James fiasco, and was loudly cursing the people of Florida with all the wrath I could conjure up- and trust me, it's a pretty shocking amount. I was certain that, with Purke and Matzek and Turner and Wheeler and James all gone, the Cards were going to end up with, oh, say, Rex Brothers, and I was prepared to be pissed. No offense to Mr. Brothers, who is a lovely human being and a hell of a dancer, I'm sure, but I see him as a reliever down the road, and just not the sort of game-changing talent I was hoping for.
But then- wonder of wonders!- the Cardinals called out the name of the other wunderkind, the one I had completely forgotten about, and I completely forgot how angry I was supposed to be.
So, what's so great about this guy? (As I am so fond of asking)
Miller has probably the most electric arm in the draft, outside of that Strasburg kid.
What Miller brings to the table for the Cardinals is that classic, front-end starter stuff, something this system has been badly lacking for quite some time. I like the term smoke artist, personally; just has a nice ring to it, you know? His fastball is clocked consistently in the 93-94 range, and has been as high as 98. He pairs the heater with a curve that is wicked nasty at times, though it isn't at all consistent at this point. You want a comp? Easy. Kerry Wood. Tall, thin, with off the charts stuff. Can you tell I really like this kid?
There are some issues, of course, as Miller's command isn't a strength (also sort of Wood-like, no?), and he doesn't have a changeup to speak of at this point. Of course, the lack of a changeup isn't really all that surprising; very few high schoolers in general have much of a change of pace anyway. It is the kind of thing you want to keep an eye one, though.
The other thing I love about Miller, after reading Rick Hummel's piece on the Cards' first day draft picks, is his attitude. Some might complain about him being overly cocky, or perhaps even arrogant, but I like that. At eighteen years old, how many of us were anything but convinced of our own invincibility? And pardon my french, but I like a little bit of Fuck You in my pitchers. It's the reason I love it when Motte throws a fastball and follows it off the mound, snatching the ball out of the air when the catcher throws it back to him. Miller is eager to get into pro ball, eager to start moving up the ranks, and eager to start blowing hitters away. Cocky? Absolutely. But as a Cardinal phenom righty from an earlier age once said, "It ain't bragging if you can do it."
There's some video of Miller over at the MLB draft page, but not nearly enough for me to make any real call on his mechanics. I like what I see of his tempo, and his arm action looks good from that short little clip, but it isn't nearly enough to draw real conclusions. So, I won't.
Even more exciting than who Miller is, though, is what Miller represents. In spite of how irritating I found Strauss' recent piece about the scouting department, there were some accurate criticisms contained therein. The Cardinals, in recent years, have shied away from just these sorts of picks, and the results are pretty easy to see. There are plenty of Lance Lynn type starters in the system, guys who are very good bets to contribute, but aren't going to sit on top of a rotation. Shelby Miller is that monster talent that so many of us (myself included), have been stumping for the Cardinals to take. Luhnow himself, when asked about the surprising direction in the first round, had this to say:
"I felt like this was a year we could take some younger kids and some higher risks and ... let our system and our own people do what they do best, which is to take raw material that has a really high upside and turn it into a finished product."
That's just the sort of philosophy the Cards need to take at this point, I think. They've built up some real depth at several positions, and the impact of a single miss at this point isn't going to make or break the system. When Luhnow began running the draft, that wasn't the case at all.
So what do I think about the other two picks the Cards made last night? Well, I'm certainly not as excited about them as I am Miller, but each has something to offer, I think. Robert Stock, the catcher out of USC, may have the most intriguing background of any player in the draft this year; he was essentially Bryce Harper before Bryce Harper was Bryce Harper. Stock left high school early to attend USC, only to find college pitching harder to eat up. He's a catcher, he hits from the left side, has outstanding athleticism, can hit 95 off the mound, and already has three years of college under his belt at age 19. What's not to like?
Apparently, the Cardinals are going to give Stock the chance to catch first, and convert him to pitching full time only if it looks like he isn't going to cut it with the bat. To me, that's probably the best approach they can take: as a pitcher, he would have a great arm and a solid breaking ball, but as a catcher, he offers a package that you rarely see behind the plate. Much like Blake Murphy from last year's draft, Stock could easily be described as a five-tool catcher, a phrase that, to be honest, barely exists in the English language.
Bottom line on Stock, I'm not sure this was the best player available when the Cardinals picked, but I have to give them points for the outside the box nature of the pick. This one has the potential to pay off in a big, big way, or be just another failed experiment.
As for Joe Kelly, I really like him, though he isn't a slam dunk, by any means. His numbers are ugly, and he's always been more hittable than someone who throws as hard as he does should be, but there's no question about the kind of talent he has. He throws just as hard, if not harder, than what Miller does, and has a breaking ball that rates a plus as well. He even has a nice little changeup, though in what little game footage I've been able to dig up, I've only seen about two of them. I profiled Kelly briefly a couple of weeks ago, and thought he would make a good 2nd round selection, as the Cardinals have had success drafting hard throwing college relievers. To get him in the 3rd is just a bonus.
Draft is getting ready to start up again, so I'm going to cut this short, but so far, I have to say I really, really like what the Cardinals have done. They brought in some huge upside with both Miller and Stock, and a pitcher in Kelly who, depending on what they want to do, could either start or relieve. (For the moment, it looks like they're wanting him to start, but I still see him as a 'pen arm in the long run. Just my opinion, though.)
I'll try to keep this updated as more picks come in.
And with their fourth round pick, the Cards take Scott Bittle, he of the freak cutter. Good pick here, though this is an awful lot of pitchers. Still, I'm beginning to look mighty smart on this draft. (Read what I wrote under Craig Fritsch)
Fifth round: Cards take Ryan Jackson, shortstop out of Miami. Good pick, as he was thought to go in the 2nd or 3rd round by most sources.
Virgil Hill is the sixth rounder, out of Los Angeles Mission College. I know absolutely nothing about this guy; I'll see what I can dig up.
Alright, Virgil Hill is a center fielder with a power/ speed combo, who put up some monster numbers for a small school. He was selected by the Athletics last year in the 32nd round. Good, good upside pick here. Sort of like a small school version of the Reds' Drew Stubbs, if you ask me.
Seventh round- Cards take Kyle Conley, a senior right fielder out of the U of Washington. Blech. He's a big, lumbering guy with a lot of power, but big holes in his swing and little speed. Will likely move to left or first base down the line. Awesome. We just drafted a right-handed Chris Duncan. I say again, blech.
Eighth round- Jason Stidham, SS, Florida State University Got to say, I'm surprised he has time to play baseball in between making all those Transporter movies.
Tampa Bay just took my boy Brett Nommensen at the end of the eighth round. I'm going to go crawl into a bottle of scotch.
Ninth round- Nick McCully, RHP, Coastal Carolina U Alright, enough with the college righties already! Maybe a nice high school third baseman, break up the monotony a little?
Tenth round- Cards take Hector Hernandez, a LHP out of the Puerto Rico Baseball Academy. A high school lefty? That will break up the monotony quite nicely, thank you very much.
Eleventh round- Allen Ahmady, 1B, Fresno State. Tremendous on base skills and ability to hit for average, but less pop than you typically look for in a first baseman. I like the kid, saw him in one of the regional rounds. A little undersized- 5'11", 195.
Round 12- Patrick Daugherty, LHP, Pearl River community college.
Round 13- Matt Carpenter, 3B, Texas Christian University
And that's it for me for right now, everybody. I'll try to update this some more this evening, after the rest of the picks are in, but I've got stuff I have to do now. Take care.
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I'm really having a problem wrapping my
head around the reviews of Stock. You say he’s a “five-tool catcher” and yet you and everyone else seems to think he’s got a Tom Pagnozzi bat at best. Are you just assuming the catching thing will fail and you’re actually only excited about his pitching?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 10, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions
Five tool
I didn’t say he is a five tool catcher, I said he could be. The thing is, Stock was a tremendous hitter coming out of high school, but has struggled badly in college. He has all the athletic gifts in the world, and he’s only nineteen, so he could very well still turn it around.
Remember, at 19, most kids are finishing their freshman years of college. Stock was just drafted at 19 as a college junior.
You can't teach a hammer to love nails.
by the red baron on Jun 10, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
just curious,
has he shown any improvement over those three years in college, or did he just struggle getting the hang of college pitching at all?
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
his stats are actually available on the USC web page
Got a little better his sophomore year, but nothing to be excited about.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
Thanks for the clarification,
though to be pedantic about it, saying “could easily be described as” means you think it is a legitimate description now, or at least that’s how most readers would interpret that phrase.
Assuming the guy does progress with the bat, does he have any potential for a change of positions?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 10, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
stock would likely have been a top ten pick if he'd stayed in high school and been drafted as a senior
i’m high on this pick – remember, this kid was playing very young in the PAC-10 (arguably best baseball conference) and in the cape cod league and more than holding his own. He hit .300 as an 18 year old in the Pac-10; by all accounts is a good defensive catcher; is a good pitcher with starting potential if he can’t catch; and is still young. I’m on the bandwagon based on what I know so far (hopefully he signs).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 10, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think it's a pretty interesting sounding pick.
You gotta like that he is a catcher, which is sort of a valuable position, and if the whole catching thing doesn’t work out he’s actually also a good pitcher, instead of a guy who can pitch.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
I don't mind drafting lots of pitchers...
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions
Surely you mean,
“draughting lots of pitchers.”
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 10, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Shelby Miller
Genuine Draught?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 10, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
A rec for you.
Damn, I’m getting thirsty and I’m still hours away from doing anything about it.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 10, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
or that
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm really excited about this guy.
obviously the cardinals now have to sign him, but he does sound pretty eager to play, so hopefully he’s pretty signable.
i have a question: right now, how many pitches does the guy legitimately have? i know he has a 5/6 fastball, and a 5/6 curve. however, i’m a little fuzzy after that. he obviously throws a change-up, but i’m assuming it’s not very good right now? quoting the kid himself,
My best pitch has always been my fastball. I throw my 4-seam the hardest, I’ve gotten up to 98 mph on it, but I usually sit around 94-95 mph. I throw a circle changeup that’s pretty good and fools a lot of hitters, and in terms of throwing people off guard, it’s probably my best pitch for that and it sits around 80 mph. I’ve got a 12-6 curve that has pretty good bite to it that I throw around 75-76 mph, up to about about 78 mph. Then I throw a 2-seam, inside to righties, outside to lefties, that’s got pretty good movement and clocks around 91 mph. Those are the four pitches I work with, but right now I’m working with a slider and have thrown it a couple of times in a game; it’s got pretty good cut to it, but I really don’t use it that much. I know I’ll use it more as I get older, though.
i’ve never heard anyone else talk about his two-seamer or his slider, so i’m also assuming these pitches are in their development stages? can anyone else shed some insight here for me? i know he’s kind of being his own publicist here, but he makes it sound like he’s got 4 pitches.
as for the whole primetime draft thing: i don’t think it’s a very good idea, simply because of the interference with the actual baseball games happening that same evening.
the nba, nfl, and nhl drafts are all during the offseasons of their particular sports. the nba and nhl drafts occur a couple of weeks after the playoffs for their sports end, allowing people to be drawn in by the playoffs and then have a couple of weeks to build up an interest in the draft. i don’t think a system like that would work for baseball (the whole doing it in the offseason thing), but if they’re going to try to make their draft a big deal, i would assign the draft its own day (maybe a friday night), heavily advertise it the week leading up to the draft, and not play any baseball games on that particular night.
i think it’s a good idea to try and make the draft into a bigger deal than it is. developing the fans’ interest in the draft would help the game, i think, as it would hopefully lead to the minor leagues being followed by a larger portion of the fanbase as those fans watched the players they had seen drafted work up their team’s system.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
none of the scouts talk about anything but his fastball (really fast) and his curve (a little wild)
so I’m guessing these other pitches are works in progress. i have heard talk of him having a lot of natural downward movement on his fastball, so I imagine a two-seam (esp. given the coaching predilections here) and a change would be reasonable pitches to add.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I saw something about his change in one report the other day
but I think they said he hardly ever uses it, despite the fact it looked OK. Might be BS though.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing about the MLB draft
Is that it sort of has to be where it is because you want the college draftees to be able to move into the low minors. If you put it after the season, the graduated seniors (both college and high school) will have sat around and wasted months and months. It’s awkward, but there’s not much you can do about it, I don’t think.
yeah, exactly what i was thinking.
the whole doing it during the baseball offseason wouldn’t work, like i said. but moving it to a night during the season solely dedicated to the draft would be a good idea, i think. maybe during the all-star weekend, as salti cracker recommended below.
cardinals are the things with feathers that perch within the soul.
looks like virgil hill got drafted in the 35th last year and didn't sign.
went back for another year of junior college.
Here’s a blurb from the Oakland site. Mind you, it’s a year old.
Virgil Hill is the son of two former US Olympic silver medalists: Virgil Hill, who won his medal as a boxer in 1984, and Denean Howard-Hill, who earned her medal as part of the US 4×400-meter relay team. Hill Sr. was a WBA light-heavyweight champion boxer and went 44-3 with 21 career knockouts during his illustrious career. Virgil Hill Jr. was a three-sport start in high school, running track and playing football in addition to baseball at Valencia High School. He played in the same junior college conference as A’s sixth-round pick Tyreace House. Hill batted .391 for Los Angeles Mission Community College in his first season of junior college baseball.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
and more.
some video courtesy mlb.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Without looking TOO closely, I like his swing
One thing I noticed is that he has very a quiet lower half, which I tend to think of as a good thing.
OK, I'm officially making progress as a baseball fan
because I thought the same thing about his swing and lower body.
My question is; why do you tend to think of that as a good thing? I’m sure there is a mechanical reason but mechanics aren’t exactly my forte.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
I just think that timing is harder with a big leg kick
That’s not to say it can’t be done (see: Rodriguez, Alex), but I just think it simplifies things to keep your lower half pretty quiet. I would guess that repeating a swing with a lot of excess lower body motion is probably more difficult as well. I’m not a hitting coach either, mind you. That’s just my two pennies.
Saw Virgil Hill Sr. take a body punch from Roy Jones Jr.
I believe it broke three of his ribs! Most gruesome body shot I’ve ever seen in my life!
Sunday Night Draft
There are a few problems with having the draft where it is. First of all its in the middle of the season when games are being played. Second, it is held in the middle of the week. Third, it concurs with two other sports finals. My suggestion would be to have it on a Sunday and not schedule a Sunday night game of the week. That way they would not have anything else diverting attention away from it. Another suggestion I would offer is to have it on one of the off days of the All-Star break. I also think they should make the draft international.
by Salti Cracker on Jun 10, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
here's to replacing that head
with a plump christmas goose!
and we better win before december comes along!
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
Judging by your draft report RB
I really like the Bittle pick. Seems like a classic high-upside risk to take, especially that low in the draft. His numbers suggest he should’ve gone in the top-30, I guess the shoulder thing with the Yankees and the fact that he’s not your classic stud (reliever without any real heat) maybe counted against him but, depending on how that cutter works out as he marches up the ranks, I get the feeling he could be a real + pitcher out of the bullpen in less than 2 years.
There was another guy I remember doing pretty well in relief utilising nothing but a high-80s cutter, can’t remember his name, played a bit for the yankees I think…
I remain to be sold on stock, but the rest of the top 4 picks look great.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
Pretty solid draft so far
Addressing some needs (top-end pitching, middle infield) and taking high-upside potential players as well.
I sure hope the organization can sign Shelby Miller — he looks like a guy who knows how to pitch and is developing pitches as a high school senior. If he can control the curveball and develop a solid change-up, that should be enough to get him into a big league rotation.
Not sure what to think about Stock. The previous USC catcher was a lefty kid from Iowa (I’m friends with his older brother), Jeff Clement, and he set some Division I HR records while he was there, and has since struggled to find it at the major league level in limited opportunities. Stock hasn’t been very impressive with the bat in college but much more impressive as a pitcher. He has a ton of upside obviously, he just seems like the type of guy who never fully makes it for one reason or another.
I’m a big fan of the Kelly and Bittle picks — I think both are major league type arms and might both be closer types before it’s all said and done. I just hope there’s nothing seriously wrong with Bittle’s shoulder. From what RB says, he sounds like he’s got a Mo Rivera type cut fastball although it’s not thrown as hard.
I’m not sure that I understand the Ryan Jackson pick. I think he was a good value in the 5th round, but isn’t he basically a guy that we already have a ton of in our farm system? I mean Kozma, Tyler Greene, Brendan Ryan, Daniel Descalso, and Niko Vasquez are all similar players to Jackson in that they are all pretty good defensively and have some deficiencies with the bat. Not that it’s bad to have a ton of high tool SS in your system, but I’d have like to have seen us take a middle infielder with upside potential with the bat for once…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I agree about
the Jackson pick. It’s redundant. Of course, that’s when trades happen.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Not that it’s bad to have a ton of high tool SS in your system, but I’d have like to have seen us take a middle infielder with upside potential with the bat for once…
Dunno much about the talent at that end of the draft, but maybe there wasn’t one? I’m guessing HS/college middle infielders with significant pop are not getting all the way down to the 5th round.
I still like the “draft the best player available” idea, and, even though as you rightly said we’ve got a lot of D-first, no-bat MIFs in the system, if RB’s right and Jackson’s a 2nd or 3rd round talent, can’t hurt to grab him in the 5th. At the very worst, he’s very projectable because of his glove, and could advance pretty quick, so he’s probably a good trade piece…
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, totally
I think it had to have been a “wait, this guy’s still there?” type of selection as “best player available”.
Thing is, I wonder if the organization hasn’t soured on Kozma. I know he’s still young, but Jackson is just one year older than he is and those two will probably be competing for a job at some point in the next two years and they profile to be the same type of player.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i think you have to give kozma at least another season. with HS talent, it just takes
a long time to mature. i’d hate to think the club is giving up on him. and his recent (though maybe ill-thought out promotion) suggests they’re still high on him.
SS is, like starting pitching or catching, a place where it never hurts to have a redundancy. I’d much rather see us pull in 5 SS in a draft than 5 corner outfielders. if you’re an ok SS you have the range and the arm to play anywhere.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Kozma's promotion
When players get unexpected promotions like that, isn’t there also often speculation that it’s a “sink or swim” move? Couldn’t it be a sign that they’re anxious to figure out how long they should wait with Koz? Or am I blowing that out of proportion?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
i think you'll like jason stidham (8th rd. pick) then.
lacks real ss range, but a nice bat if he sticks at 2b or 3b.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Agreed
I do like him — looks like he has some pop but won’t probably stay at SS according to his scouting reports. My post went up before I saw that pick announced. I also like the Virgil Hill pick a lot: great pedigree, high upside, numbers to match; could be John Jay with a better bat, maybe?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
probably a good comp. screams "athlete." one of these guys who played football and track.
i hope stidham doesn’t end up as jarret hoffpauir, though; or kyle conley as nick stavinoha.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Can we please start using the Hubie Brown form of analysis?
“Now, I’m the Cardinals. I have Pete Kozma at AA Springfield with the slash stats of .203/.281/.254 for an OPS of .535. You are drafting in the fifth round and Ryan Jackson from the University of Miami is still on the board. Your system has projected him as a second or third round pick, yet he has fallen into your lap in this, Round 5, of the draft. He is a defensive wizard, not to be confused with the defensive Wizard who has occasional, inconsistent pop with the bat. You’ve just deepened your talent pool at a crucial middle-of-the-diamond position with a player many valued two or three rounds ahead of where you got him.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
why not the tony brand?
“hmmm. why can’t we get any veteran prospects?”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
As soon as I heard about Bittle
I thought “he’s one of those guys with similar funny names that Baron profiled a while ago” and turns out I was right. Stoffel, Tootle, and Bittle. It sounds like a nursery rhyme or something. Did one of those three stand out?
Also, I love Virgil Hill because, as I mentioned in the Future Redbirds chat, his name is Virgil and he’s descended from two Olympians. This makes him a Classical upside pick.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 10, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Sounds like a great double play combination.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Sounds like Ryan Jackson's a good pick too
going against the high-risk, high-upside thing; apparently the guy’s got a supreme glove at SS and so should end up, at the very least, turning into Cesar Izturis/Brendan Ryan, something like that, even if his bat doesn’t come to much in the adult ranks. Not a bad talent to grab int he 5th round for an organisation short on MIF talent, seems like he’s more or less a lock to get to the bigs eventually….
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
too much risk?
Seems like there is a lot of high risk picks, mixed in with a couple low potential picks.
What happened to our team?
we need risk
we’ve got a lot of so-so prospects that don’t project more than average players. We could probably just about fill a roster with home grown, average talent in a couple of years, but such a team is only going to go .500…. Some high upside talent was needed this year.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
We need the high-upside guys
We’ve got a ton of middling talent providing depth in the system right now — so much, in fact, that trading some of it almost makes no sense because we can’t get any return back. With the farm system in this stage, it’s good to take a shot at some high-risk, high-reward type players in this draft since those are generally the guys that make the biggest impact down the road.
Also, I would say that some of our risk has been tempered with selections like Joe Kelly, Ryan Jackson, and two other college right-handed pitchers. That’s not too much different than what we’ve done in previous drafts.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Mo/Lunhow have built a solid foundation
We have a lot of guys who are serviceable, which means we don’t have to go to the scrap heap with as much regularity as we did during the setting sun period of the Jocketty Era. We have some solid contributors and have added a lot of depth. Now, we can start taking some shots at these high-upside guys that could be figureheads in the birds-on-the-bat for a decade. This is doubly exciting for me since they’ll probably come through Des Moines at some point to face the I-Cubs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
fair enough....
just seems to me that the high risk pitching prospects are very scary. we haven’t cranked out a pitching prospect in ages. probably for reasons mentioned above…
What happened to our team?
You aren't going to uncover many Ace types
unless you draft high risk. Low risk + top of the rotation starters = Top 5 picks, and the Cardinals are never bad enough to get one of those picks.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
by dcfcblues on Jun 10, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Draft Coverage
Why they had it conflict with dozens of MLB games is beyond me. I have followed the draft build-up in a very superficial manner, which is probably more than most baseball fans. Yet, even I was not going to watch the draft with the Cards playing an actual baseball game. It’s silly. Last year, I followed the first day on MLB.com all day. This year, I brought up FutureRedbirds.net after the thrilling conclusion to the Pens/Wings Game 6. If MLB let me organize the draft, I would have it on Saturday morning through early afternoon, leading into the FOX Game of the Week. But, hey, that’s just me. I love the whole roll-out-of-bed-and-watch nature of the NFL draft and think that MLB could learn from what the NFL have done. Is there a reason that the MLB draft is on a Tuesday?
I’m pretty excited about the first day’s picks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Agreed
This year, I brought up FutureRedbirds.net after the thrilling conclusion to the Pens/Wings Game 6.
Best hockey game I’ve seen in a long, long time. I hope Game 7 lives up to the hype on Friday night!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
And, hopefully this year Ed Wilson is doing a split-screen severe thunderstorm analysis
I understand that tornadoes are dangerous. (After all, I’ve seen “Twister.”) But, how on earth do you justify a split-screen of hockey? It makes the game unwatchable because you cannot see the puck. And during Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals, no less! I care deeply for my fellow Iowans not situated in Polk County, but wouldn’t a scrawl along the lines of “WARNING! TORNADO CITED IN GREENE COUNTY! TAKE COVER, IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIVELIHOOD!” have sufficed?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It should have
listen here Ed if you are reading this, If I want to watch the telley instead of taking cover in a tornado, well that is my right as an American. I should also be able to watch the programing I want instead of an over analysis of tornadic activity.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
RB, concerning your question about why the draft thread here did not get alot of attention;
There were a lot of people that comment here at Future Redbirds following Erik’s live draft coverage (thought I saw you commenting over there as well). That’s probably a huge reason there was less commentary over here.
plus
the game was going on at the same time
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
also, jeez, we're not all hyperventilating prospect geeks.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I know I'm not.
I’m much more casual in my prospect fandom.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Must be a girl thing..
Every guy I know is concerned about his prospects 24/7
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
by all4tookie on Jun 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yes
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with basically everything said in this article.
I’m glad to see the Cards take risks, since the main criticism of the system is the lack of potential stars.
I like the Stock pick, and I’ll be ok with whatever the end up doing with him as long as it isn’t making him a reliever.
Whats the scoop on Hector Hernandez??
I like the idea, just don’t know anything about him.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
You might have seen this
And it’s actually the opposite of informative, I just thought it was funny. In the Future Redbirds chat somebody noted Hernandez was a lefty and was from Puerto Rico, and wondered if he was “Jaime Garcia part 2” or something like that. Jaime Garcia, however, is Mexican.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
born in mexico
he’s actually a US citizen though, and went to high school in Texas.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
I think I actually did know that
I remember that they interviewed his dad on his major league debut, it was pretty cool to see.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
erik says he throws an 88-90 mph sinker. projects as a starter.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
SINKER???? PITCH-TO-CONTACT??
GET THIS BOY A PEN, DAMN IT! IF HE’S STILL IN PUERTO RICO, WE ARE PLAYING IN FL AND HE CAN START TONIGHT!
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
I havent really had the chance to look at this years draft outside of Miller
please someone tell me that we have pitchers that are going to be more than just relievers
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
of course. some of them are going to be outright busts.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Jun 10, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did folks see this on Rotowire?
“Kyle Lohse is expected to miss a minimum of four weeks and could be out through the All-Star break.”
We all knew there was going to bad news; this was the first info I’d heard about how bad (or how uncertain…).
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 10, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
too early to restart the Sign Ben Sheets petition?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
by STLRegalia on Jun 10, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
once the draft is over
Go for it!!!!!
by ultimatecardinalfan on Jun 10, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Since the compensation portion of the draft is over
can we sign him today?
by ubeddie on Jun 10, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Is this draft coverage live?
How do they make the decisions on their pick in like 10 seconds?
First round was broadcast on the MLB network
And each team had like 3 minutes to make a choice. After the first couple rounds, I imagine each time has a huge list of prospects and just picks from the top of the list as it goes on. It’s a deep draft, and unlike the NFL and NBA its advantageous to draft to talent rather than need, so its easier to pick faster, especially in the later rounds (only X factor being signability).
Of course, that’s just my take on it. I was wrong once before, so there’s a chance (albeit small) it could happen again.
Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."
What are the chances
that Dave Duncan wants the Cardinals to sign Paul Byrd?
How did the pig corner the breakfast market?
Lineup
2B Skip Schumaker
LF Chris Duncan
1B Albert Pujols
CF Colby Rasmus
RF Rick Ankiel
C Yadier Molina
3B Tyler Greene
P Adam Wainwright
SS Brendan Ryan
he's RHB
and we play against LHP 3 of the next 4 days, apparently. According to the P-D.
As absurd as I thought the “if we acquire Holliday, TLR will just platoon him” argument was, I now find myself thinking there may be some truth to it.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
if only Luddy historivally hit righties better than lefties
if only
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
holy fucking shit.
"I usually don’t read other peoples sigs." -Cuttah
by Alxfritz on Jun 10, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

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