Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Free Agency 2010

The Cardinals have 5 key players that will be eligible for free agency in 2010 and those players currently command a combined salary of approximately 31.5 million.  Three of those players are position players (K. Greene, Ankiel, Glaus) and two players are pitchers (Wellemeyer & Pinero).  That 31.5 million is a huge chunk of the total payroll and another 4 million comes off the books from Adam Kennedy's contract.  Additionally, the Cards are currently approximately 10 million under the overall salary high water mark.  To make a long story short, the upcoming free agency will provide the Cards a great oppportunity to re-shape the roster.  That re-shaping might simply be resigning some or all of the Cardinal free agents or that re-shaping could mean that the current free agents are allowed to walk allowing them to spend the money in a different manner.  Thirty five million is a lot of money and the decisions about how to move forward will no doubt have a huge bearing on the future of the Cards.  Ideas on how they should utilize these resources is the parameter for discussion in this thread.

I believe that the Cards are in a position where they might should let all five of the pending free agents walk or if possible move them in a trade this summer.  I like Ankiel but Duncan is here to stay, Rasmus is your CF'der of the future and you need Ludwick's RH bat in the line-up.  Glaus is a good player but I am not sure if Glaus gives you more production than Barden and Thurston plus Glaus commands a huge salary.  K.Greene has potential but he is not hitting and he is not as good defensively as T. Greene or Ryan.  Bottom line is that I think you see all three of those guys being traded or allowed to walk.

In my mind pitching is the weak link.  Wainright and Lohose are good enough at the top of the rotation but Wellemeyer or Pinero can probably be replaced with a young pitcher from within the organization, and I just don't think that either is good enough for what the Cards need - a frontline starter.  I think you count on Carpenter as your #5 and hope for better, but you find a cheap young #4 to go along with Wainright and Lohose and you sign the very best free agent starting pitcher possible to strengthen this staff.  In my mind, this improves the team more than signing any of the Cards current free agents. 

Signing a frontline starting pitcher should be a high priority, but. priority #1 should be to re-structure Pujols' contract and make him a lifetime Cardinal.  Ankiel, Glaus and K. Greene are good players, but they can be replaced - there is no replacement for Albert!

 

 

 

 

 

Comment 85 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

The Cards also have to pay

a $4 million dollar bonus to Rolen next season

"Greene over to Schumaker, on to first! Double Play!!"

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on May 6, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Didn't Toronto send $1.8M to off set the $4M

I don’t know how they do the books though

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

E) Not enough information.

We need to see more than a month worth of Khalil’s performance to know what we can expect going forward.

We need to see Carpenter be healthy for a majority of the season to decide how much we need starting pitching.

We also need to see the progress of our home-grown starters to get our best guess on who will be a valid starter for next season (e.g., how Garcia heals, how Boggs responds to his starts this year, whether Mortensen continues his success at AAA).

I think the argument for resigning glaus and ankiel is almost non-existent.

My gut instinct is that we should resign none of our players who become free agents in November, but we probably need to wait till late in the season to answer these important questions.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on May 6, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I would agree with all of this...

is Garcia expected to pitch towards the end of the year…or is he out till 2010?

I don’t see how you bring Glaus back unless it’s a 1yr/$5M deal. Ankiel will command WAY too much money, and won’t justify supplanting Rasmus, Ludwick or Duncan. Whether or not to bring Khalil back has less to do with his performance and more to do with Ryan and T. Greene’s performances IMO. At this point I don’t see Welley or Piniero coming back.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 7, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have an option on Franklin too

For $2.75M club option ($0.25M buyout)

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I think everyone of them should walk

The Free Agent market is awful weak next year. I wish we could upgrade at SS but their is nothing really out there. I think our best bet is to make some kind of trade this season or during the off season to fill in some holes. We have a LOT of players that are going to have to be on the 40 man roster next year. Try to package quantity for some quality.

I think if we are patching all our free agents with home grown options than we should spend the money on a pitcher. Here is a list of free agent pitchers next year that I think our quality.

Erik Bedard SEA
Doug Davis ARZ
Justin Duchscherer OAK
Kelvim Escobar LAA
Rich Harden CHC
Tim Hudson * ATL $12M club option ($1M buyout)
Randy Johnson SF
John Lackey LAA
Brett Myers PHI
Brad Penny BOS
Andy Pettitte NYY
John Smoltz BOS
Jarrod Washburn SEA
Ben Sheets

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

BEN SHEETS

had to do it

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on May 6, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's see

Bedard would be a signing I would be happy with, but I think some trades would better suit us. Trading for Michael Young would be great.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except Michael Young makes $16M a year till 2013

I would rather put that money towards something else.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And he is worth about half of that going forward

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 6, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

ugh, no to Young

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 8, 2009 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

NO WASHBURN

but that is actually a quality list of names. Myers is a guy who I think would thrive outside of Philly. Also, guys like Millwood and Padilla are underrated due to Arlington and Texas’ crappy defense. It would be nice to get Harden or Bedard, but they would likely be too expensive and have too much injury risk.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 6, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't want Myers

Harden as you rightly say is a big injury risk. One guy I wouldn’t mind rolling the dice on if he’s cheap (due to his injury record) is Duchscherer. Duke seems to me like the sort of pitcher who’d fit in well with our ethos, although his 2008 was a bit of a BABIP fluke, he could be solid #2/3 in the NL I think, but I wouldn’t want him for more than 2 years at $10m per. Realistically he might get more from someone else.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 8, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand the dislike of Myers

His career K:BB ratio is 2.38 and when he is good, it’s in the 3’s. The only thing that makes him bad is a propensity to give up a lot of homers. However, that can easily be explained by his home ballpark. His GB/FB ratio is a solid 1.47, and he has only allowed 32.2% FB’s, however his career HR/FB is 15.3, which is abnormally high for a pitcher. League average is around 10 and his mark should regress to that once he goes to an extreme pitchers park like Busch.

With a regressed HR/FB, a reasonable projection would put his FIP in the mid to high 3’s. Over 200 innings that would make him a 4-4.5 WAR player. Also he is only 29 and has been very durable his entire career.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 9, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lefty would be nice

Bedard has top of the rotation potential and is a lefty. It all depends on how Garcia recovers.

by ultimatecardinalfan on May 6, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are any of those pichers not injury risks?

sems like a lot of pitchers with the “injury prone” or “recently injured” label

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on May 7, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hard to know who will be ready next year.....

But I wouldn’t mind trotting out a lineup of:

Skip 2B
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Ludwick RF
Wallace 3B
Duncan LF
Molina C
Ryan/T. Greene SS

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on May 6, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I just wish we could get a better SS

But their just isn’t any good options for a good fielding SS that can field

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one can field ss these days.

Not even the good fielding guys. :)
But if you replace the latter “field” with “hit,” I agree with your sentiments completely.

by aNdrOss on May 6, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

there isn't a

good free agent shortstop available, but I bet the brewers shop Hardy in the off season. he will be a free agent at the end of the 2010 season, and take quite a bit to acquire, he surely will be worth a look.

HE SAID WITH A SMIRK

by Dave Barry on May 6, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greene will probably be resigned

if he has a solid year, and no player in the organization shows that he can be a regular. the free agent class at short is weak.

by ultimatecardinalfan on May 6, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they shop Hardy

the first name in the conversation is probably Rasmus if you’re the Brewers. They’ll have to get the Cardinals to overpay as well because of the whole “trading in the same division” thing.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the 5 years of Rasmus versus 1 year of Hardy

would tilt that deal too much. I really have no idea what they’ll do.

by ol Pete on May 7, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

They'll need a CF, 3B, or pitching prospect in return

Wallace would be the guy, but he may not be able to stay at 3rd base. They already have Fielder locked up at 1B so they’re in the same situation there as the Cards.

FWIW, Hardy is a 4 WAR player at SS, while Rasmus could be a 3 WAR player in CF if he reaches his potential. I don’t like that deal either, but if we’re trading for Hardy, we’re going to have to give up quite a bit as he’s one of the top 4 players at the SS position in all of baseball.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would hope

rasmus is much better than 3 WAR in CF in the future. Given his on-base ability, and his defense, he should be a 3 win player this year (he’s been worth half a win so far, in limited playing time).

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 7, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm simply talking about 2010

I don’t expect him to be a 5-6 win player immediately. In his first full year starting in CF I would be happy with 3 – 3.5 WAR out of him next year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

As sleepy said

I’d hope that, even next year, he’s worth more than 3-3.5 WAR. We really need him to be up in the 4-5 WAR region ideally. Ank was worth more than 3 wins last year if I recall, and I think we’re hoping he pans out better than 08 Ank.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 8, 2009 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

2008 Rick Ankiel

~ 2 WAR

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 8, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's where he ended up.

But that was after putting up a .593 OPS over his last 77 PA’s. And that includes the period in which he was hurt and playing in LF, where his UZR/150 was -56 and he lost ~5 defensive runs in his last 130 innings of playing time.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 8, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

I doubt that he is really -10 in center. He looks a lot better than that when he plays, and the sample size last year was really small.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 9, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that's a small sample size

but I’m not sure he’s much better than that. He takes horrible routes to balls and seems to misjudge a lot of balls that are hit right at him. Also, I think that we’re seeing that he’s probably not the .850 OPS hitter that we thought he was at the beginning of last year either. Couple all of that with a propensity to get hurt, and he’s not going to be worth more than 2-2.5 wins to any team on the free agent market.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 12, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd bet that rick's "true talent"

and the numbers he actually puts up are probably as disparate as any player, ever. I could seriously see him alternating between injury-free .700 OPS and 1.000 OPS seasons the next 3-4 years. Or anything in between, and I’d be shocked if anyone could guess his OPS within 50 points for all 4 years.

If I was considering an advanced degree in sports psychology, his performance would certainly be on my short list for thesis subjects.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 13, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

within the division as you said and the years would make it pretty hard

CF – Cam says he loves playing here and its unlike anywhere he’s played, maybe he comes back for a year. Chris Duffy can play the field with the best of them but may not hit well enough, but he might. Lorenzo Cain is possible, but he’s young and a leg injury probably rules that out since he won’t have time to develop. 3B – Hall is here for another year, Gamel has the ability but not the consistency and the org hasn’t given up. They have a couple guys who could be decent as well in the minors and on the bench. Pitching is what they really need. They have a swarm of guys at the lower levels and a handful of guys at the upper who could be 5ish… and Jeffress. I don’t follow the Cards minors a lot, but seems like the team wouldn’t want to give up a near ready middle of the rotation guy.

by ol Pete on May 7, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're right on that front

But even if they did, I think they’d have to give up that plus a couple of other prospects to make that deal work. I just don’t see it getting done being that it’s inside the division.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rasmus could be much higher than a 3 WAR player in center

That’s basically the production he is putting up this, and his power hasn’t come around yet.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 8, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you take Rasmus current numbers

and project them over a full year (with him playing CF the entire time) he looks something like a 3 WAR player.

Batting: -6 runs
Fielding: +13 runs
Replacement: +20 runs
Positional Adj.: +3 runs

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 8, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

And his hitting hasn’t been close to what we can expect from him in a year or two.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 8, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

or even this year.

He’s much, much better than he’s looked so far. He’ll get hot here pretty soon and make up a lot of lost ground. I’ll be shocked if he ends the season with an OPS under .800.

(but I still think he should have spent a couple of months in AAA this year.)

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 8, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

With those other 7 bats, I just want a SS that can field and hit above .250. Good place to save some money.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on May 7, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

I’d rather go after a proper 2B and stick with Ryan as a glove-first SS.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 8, 2009 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Glaus

The one thing about Glaus, is if this is an injury-riddled year, we might be able to get him for another year at a cheap price for him to get him back into the “highly-paid” free agent class. I wouldn’t mind that at all considering Wallace still might be a year away from being a starter. So if we can get him at a hefty discount, I wouldn’t complain at all. I’d rather see Barden at second base anyway; that’d be a pretty strong hitting infield made up of all infielders.

As for SS, who are the FA short stops out there? Not saying I want to re-sign Greene, but is there anyone out there worth signing? Please say, yes . . . I’m getting tired of this whole SS charade.

Wellemeyer and Pineiro I’d definitely let go . . . unless they sign for nickels. But honestly, if Pineiro keeps up a season like this, we all know he’s going to get some absurdly overpriced contract, so who am I kidding?

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on May 6, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

i disagree.

we should see wallace in AAA this year. unless he progresses much more slowly than I think he will, we need to get him in the majors by next year. he’s not showing any signs currently of slowing as he proceeds through the system.

wallace has a pair of contradictory factors in play right now: with more practice, his technical skills at 3b will improve; as he ages, his speed and range will probably decline. not many people project him as a serious 3b option; still fewer think he can make it there long term. it may very well be that we have only a few years where he will be young enough to play the spot with agility. we need to maximize those years.

and re: wallace and flim’s concern about good defensive SS’s — maybe that’s the sop that will make having tyler or ryan at SS next year. if having an excellent range SS alongside a poor range 3b allows us to put a hulking 3b bat in the lineup, the weak bat of the defensive specialist doesn’t look so bad.

keep that film of tyler greene fielding that grounder far to the third base line in your head as you think about our lineup for 2009.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on May 6, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's a good point

I’m willing to see it out, just like how I’m willing to see how Glaus does over the course of this year. But yeah, if he’s going to cost a lot, his and Greene’s money could reel in a pretty solid pitcher.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on May 7, 2009 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think too many people

are putting to much faith in Wallace slugging at a major league. His strikeout rate is a little alarming even at AA and he is having trouble maintaining a .250 batting average.

If and when Wallace can get to the major leagues he might be another Dave Kingman..long home runs but not often enough and very little elsewise. Not saying this is the case but saying it very well could be.

by ridgesee on May 6, 2009 6:52 PM EDT reply actions  

his K rate is very high in a small sample partially because he has stopped getting pitches to hit.

he sees the same thing (not to make an unfair comparison) that pujols faces. and he sometimes responds the same way — by reaching for pitches out of the zone.

note that, while his K rate has shot up, the rate of walks has shot up as well. in fact his bb/k rate is HIGHER this year than last.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on May 6, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lots of SO's, low average, tons of power....

Sound alot like Ryan Howard

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!

by RunninRedbird on May 6, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

how about this stat

as of today, wallace hasn’t hit an infield fly ball yet this year…

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 7, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're right

hitting .266 with a .400 OBP and 5 HR in 24 games is huge problem. His K/BB is 2:1, so he walks quite a bit in addition to striking out. He’s getting pitched around an awful lot from the look of things and he’s still putting up an .863 OPS in less than 40 games at the AA level. Power is usually the last thing to come to player when he switches levels so I’m not that worried about Wallace just yet. His plate discipline is still fantastic, which is one thing that translates well from the minors to the big leagues — just look at Rasmus’ career minor league OBP and his OBP so far in the big leagues for a good reference to that.

According to your evaluation, Stephen Hill might be the best player in the Cardinal organization: hitting .342 with a .696 SLG in 79 AB’s!!!

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

well, Steven Hill might BE the best player in the org

next to allen craig, of course.

Totally agree on plate discipline, though. A great pure hitter with good plate discipline is really something special.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 7, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's certainly got my attention

Plenty of good offensive players on that Springfield squad right now, that’s for sure. If they could only get some pitching to go along with all those bats….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's wierd

Because Wallace’s walk totals weren’t that impressive last year.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 8, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

sort of.

his walk rates were fine- nearly 10% – but he had a fairly insane propensity to get HBP last year. he was walked 19 times, HBP 13 times, and K’d 39 times. So when you consider (W + HBP), or when you just look at his OBP – BA, as opposed to his W%, he seems elite. Last year the (HBP+BB)/PA rate was about 14%, which, when coupled with a .337 BA, is impressive; this year, the (BB+HBP)/PA rate is close to 25%, which is almost bonds-like (bonds was 18.7% for his career).

OTOH, getting HBP that often is a very scary thing, and I’d think it would tend to lead to short careers and/or seasons lost with broken wrists/ribs/skulls. Though AFAICR Biggio managed to avoid major injury while being HBP as often as possible, and utley is adept at it as well.

FWIW, if you adjust for “luck” on wallace’s minorleaguesplits page, he has a .293 BA with a .427 OBP. Granted we have no idea what algorithm they use for that adjustment, but even if you don’t do any adjusting, his OBP is still over .400.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 8, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it's just me....

But doesn’t his body type resemble Paste from the Jersey team in the original Bases Loaded? That could also be why teams throw at him so much — I remember it being really REALLY hard to not throw at Paste while playing my buddies in Bases Loaded back in the day.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 8, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think luck just normalizes BABIP

Also, I’m not sure if getting HBP is a skill. For some players (like Utley and Biggio) it is, but I don’t know if you can say it is a skill after ~150 at bats.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 8, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a function of a lot of things

but the point stands: Had the pitch not hit him, it would have been called a ball and he may walk in that AB or get a good pitch to hit later on in the AB. You can’t adjust it as a skill, but considering he takes up the entire left handed batters box, I can see how he could get hit quite a bit, especially considering that he doesn’t move quickly to get out of the way. A bit like a left handed hitting Don Baylor…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 12, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Wallace's bat...

was considered to be a high average bat. Lot’s of line drives and stuff. I could swear I read something last year about him being voted as the most likely to hit for average out of the draft (or something along those lines).

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 7, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was

I think he’s just struggling right now and getting walked that much probably isn’t helping. He was projected as a guy who could hit around .290 to .300, but he will have a lot of K’s. He’s not projected to be a “three true outcomes” type of player (walk, slug, strikeout), but with his ISoP at ASU and in the minors he’ll be a productive player even if he is.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Glaus is a good player but I am not sure if Glaus gives you more production than Barden and Thurston plus Glaus commands a huge salary.”

This is placing way too much stock in production over the last month rather than what they’ve done over, say, the last 3 years.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 6, 2009 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

While true

I also think that any production at all is better than what Glaus has given us this year and I really don’t think it would be a good idea to pony up the kind of money he’ll command in free agency just to see him on the shelf for parts or all of 2010. He just can’t seem to stay healthy and I’d hate to see us pony up multi-millions to sign him when there are fairly decent internal options like Wallace, Craig, and Freese.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm inclined to think that Glaus on a muli-year deal is a bad idea

but if it’s a one-year $10M outlay, I might take that gamble. He was a 5 WAR player last year and I’m not sure I see Craig or Wallace as more than league average their first year in the league. (I’m not, and never really have been, a Freese believer.)

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 7, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would hope that we'd get a better discount than that

especially if he doesn’t play at all this year. 1Y$10M wouldn’t be such a bad thing, I agree, but if we keep the rest of the offense intact, add a SS that can hit and field as well as an average major leaguer, I’d rather spend the $10M on a FA starting pitcher like Bedard, Davis, or Sheets. Then give Wallace, Freese, Craig, and Barden (maybe Mather too?) a shot to win the 3B job. If Barden could be a 2 WAR player with the bat he’ll be around 3.5 WAR with his defense at 3B, and it seems like Craig and Freese are also pretty good defenders there.

He was a 5 WAR player last year, but I don’t anticipate his defense being that good since it really hasn’t been that good at any other time in his career.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

His defense was only good because he committed a rediculously low ammount of errors

his RngR was pretty much the same as it’s always been.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 8, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

definitely agree

of course, it’s also {barden/thurston + $10M} or so, vs what glaus gives. I’m really interested in seeing what barden does the rest of the year. If he can be a .750 OPS player, he’ll be worth at least 3 wins, which is about what glaus should be expected to do in the future.

Now, the ONLY reason I believe Barden has a shot at that level of performance is his off-season surgery, and the ensuing performance boost (which I think is mostly illusion, though he’s actually somehow been unlucky on BABIP). But I do believe he has a shot at doing it.

Thurston, not so much, though they’ll both be better than “expected” if platooned heavily like they have been.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 7, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

btw fun fact about the Thurston's

there have been 2 players with the last name of Thurston in MLB history. The first player’s name was “Sloppy”, the other “Joe”.

If this was a fighter squadron, I think we’d have a call sign.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 7, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Manwich?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

oh my

well done.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 8, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

While I think the sentiment that Barden+Manwich>Glaus is totally wrong,

the org has three other good reasons not to sign a third baseman.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on May 7, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

four

don’t give up on Mather so soon.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 8, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Since we're talking about money coming off the books...

we should probably look at built-in/arbitration raises.

Contract raises
Carpenter + $500K
Lohse + $1.75M
Molina + $1M
Wainwright + $2.05M
Reyes + $1M
Total + $6.3M

Arb raises (SWAG)
Ludwick – $5M (3.7M to 9M for second year arb)
Duncan – $2M (.825M to 3M for second year arb)
Schumaker – $1.5M (.43M to 2M for first year arb)
Total + $8.5M – this could be way off

Total raises $14.8M

That’s pretty well half of your expiring contracts. Which includes Miller, Larue and Franklin.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 7, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

I think you’re pretty darn close to about what the raises will be, although the club might get Luddy to sign a long term deal that would decrease their obligation to him next year. Not sure if I’d be in favor of that or not. The team should let the rest of those guys go to arbitration.

That still leaves about $15M left of this years payroll (depending on attendance and revenues, it may go up) left to improve the team at SS and 3B and add a starting pitcher. If Tyler Greene or Ryan could become the SS and Craig/Barden/Thurston/Wallace/Mather is able to win the job at 3B the team could go out and look at getting an ace FA pitcher. Who knows, maybe Jones makes the leap this year and makes Duncan expendable, and we can then trade him for a starting pitcher.

The point is, we have a lot of options for this upcoming offseason, and there will probably be fewer bidders this year than last because of the attendance fiasco and ballooning payroll in New York and the fact that a lot of small market teams are going to be hurt by attendance this year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that NYY

spending all that money this year on Tex and CC kinda takes them out of the market…at least for starting pitching…that should help.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 7, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know...

I put that in there:

because of the attendance fiasco and ballooning payroll in New York

I include both the Mets and the Yankees in that because their attendance is down and their payrolls are going to go up over the next 2-3 seasons immensely.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 7, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

who could even pay up for a prime pitcher at this point?

i doubt boston would — they have a lot of internal options and a good staff. penny and smoltz are going to pan out or wash out. in the former case, i don’t see why boston’d pay up to resign them; in the latter, they’d have no use.

detroit and houston need to cut payroll, not add to it. atlanta has good internal options and is tied down to some big money names. the white sox and cleveland may end up really needing arms, but i don’t know if they have the money for them.

i can see philly, the cubs (who can do nothing to improve but spend money now), the dodgers, maybe seattle or san francisco spending on FA pitchers, maybe the angels if some of the injuries to their staff are long-term. the cardinals are in pretty good shape to be competitive on the FA pitcher market.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on May 7, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good points

I don’t see San Fran being a player for starting pitchers when they have so many internal options. They’re going to have to worry more about the escalating costs of the guys that they have currently, and they have Bumgarner in the minors yet.

Philly, Seattle, and the Angels will probably be players and it’s hard to tell what the Dodgers are going to do because they have so many swing men in their bullpen who could be stretched out as starters.

FWIW, there always seems to be a team that comes out of the woodwork and throws money after some players each offseason. It’s hard to tell who that team would be in the current environment, but I’ll throw out Cleveland and Baltimore as opportunistic buyers in the pitching market because both clubs are pretty well set on offense for the near future and are short on pitching.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 8, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

i would go along with these numbers, too, though obviously the arb raise for schumaker

will be somewhat dependent on how he fits in at second. if by the second half he’s an acrobatic second baseman who turns double plays in his sleep, he’ll make more. if he flops at 2b and is relegated to 5th OF status, then he probably makes six figures. but the safe bet is that he’ll end up somewhere in the middle, in which case $2M sounds about right.

duncan and ludwick’s arb raises will be dependent on performance and health. but the numbers sound good.

this is pretty low on the totem pole, but PK got arb this year. i doubt he’d be in line for a tremendous raise, even if he has a good year and even if we retain him (neither of which seems likely).

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on May 7, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

techincally...

Thompson avoided arb…I don’t know that the team will offer him arb this fall. More likely non-tender and see what happens. There are too many guys (Mort, Boggs, Walters, Hawksworth, Garcia) that could fill the swingman role for free.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 7, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Differed Money on the Payroll

I know that $2M of Carp’s salary is differed and $3M of Pujols is also
Lohse’s raise can be anywhere from the $1.75 or only 500K increase depending on how you counted his bonus.

Scout.com Forum has an excellent Payroll Matrix up

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 7, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bottom Line

Someone please tell me if my math is close to correct: approximately 14 million due to built in increases – approximately 31.5 million obligated to current free agents – 4 million off the books from Kennedy’s contract – approximately 2 million Rolen obligation.

Assuming that they don’t resign any of the current free agents and assuming that they don’t trade any of the players due to receive an increase, I am guessing that the difference is somewhere around 18-20 million.

by Warcard on May 7, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

obviously completely depends on the economy...

but on the surface I’d say that is right.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 7, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some Names to Consider

Matt Holliday will be a Free Agent, though agent Scott Boras will require too much money, and not sure a LF is the Cardinals needs right now. But Holliday has been mentioned a couple of times as wanting to play for the Cardinals (likes the baseball town feel).

As for 3rdbasemen, Garret Atkins of the Rockies will be available for trade, and the price should be low.

The Cardinals need a SS, possibly a 3b (unless internal options work out this year) and at least one quality Starting Pitcher in my estimation

by Redhawk on May 8, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Stay a million miles away from garrett atkins

IMHO

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 8, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of the free agents that we have will walk

Ank, Glaus, Welly, and K. Greene will probably all go. They’ll all ask for too much money that the Cards won’t be willing to pay. Of those four guys, I can only see Welly MAYBE coming back. I have a feeling that Pineiro will want to come back and will sign a deal.

We are still left without a SS, and I guess Thursty could go there. Platoon him with Ryan and T. Greene, and I think we’ll be okay. Khalil is proving to me that even a big-name shortstop doesn’t produce as good as you’d like him to.

Not sure who we’ll go after, but at this point, it’s way too early to tell.

Welcome to Baseball Heaven.

by zoomzoomj88 on May 8, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

649494__1__small
Hall of WAR: Part 2

Recent FanPosts

N1046613005_8392_small
Our 2010-2011 strays
Dsc01844_small
Cardinals take the Governor's Joplin Challenge, will help build 35 homes for torando victims
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals of All-Time - Relief Pitching Edition
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals of All-Time - Starting Pitching Edition
Small
Two Trades That Set the Cards Back in the 70s
Nyc_small
Cardinals Offense vs. Reds Offense - 2012
Nyc_small
Cardinals Rotation vs. Reds Rotation - 2012
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Center Fielders
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Corner Outfielders

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols