2009 Draft Preview #7
I don't really have a whole lot to say about the ballgame last night, choosing instead to subscribe to the axiom our mothers repeated endlessly to us as children, the one about what you should do when you don't have anything nice to say.
Let's face it: the Cards played ugly, weak baseball against a Phillies team that came in extremely hot, and the results were predictable. What most stood out, of course, was the poor quality of the plate appearances for the Cardinals. After all, they did get shut down by Joe F. Blanton (and yes, the F stands for what you think it does), and his slow, straight fastball of wonder. And before anyone says it, yes, Blanton did a relatively nice job of locating his pitches. Nonetheless, the big culprit in the game was the hacktastic performance of El Birdos at El Plato. One would hope those sorts of results would put to rest all this talk of hitters needing to be aggressive we get from both manager and media, but somehow I doubt it. Sigh.
Oh, and can we all just agree that if any of us ever see Jayson Werth out in public, it is our civic duty as St. Louisans to slash his tires? I remember a couple of seasons back, there was a fair amount of talk 'round these here parts about trying to pick up Werth. If you were one of the people on that bandwagon (honestly, I don't recall my position, though I think I was in favour of it), then you get a gold star for prescience. Congratulations.
Anyhow, enough about that. Does it suck to lose? Sure does. Does it make me think the sky is falling? Not any more than I normally do. The Cards are facing their first bona fide slump of the year; now let's see if they can pull themselves out of it. Ordinarily, one would look at the next opponent, see that it's Pittsburgh, and thank the powers that be for the slump buster, but we've all seen what happens when the Pirates come to town recently. Blech.
Onward to my next round of draft prospect reports. Today we'll be taking a look at a slate of three left-handed pitchers out of college programs, a draft demographic that I think could very likely attract the Cardinals' interest this year, given the organisational need for lefties.
And check it out; I've even remembered to include the links to parts 1-6!
- Part 1- College Righties
- Part 2- Prep Arms
- Part 3- College Shortstops
- Part 4- College Closers
- Part 5- The Indy Leaguers
- Part 6- College Outfielders
Huh. Now that I look at it, I've gone awfully heavy on the college players, haven't I? Oh, well, the Cards pick mostly collegians anyway; why shouldn't I profile more of them?
Before I get started here, I would like to point you toward the excellent college player updates that fewgoodcards is doing again this year over at Future Redbirds. Pretty much every collegian who really matters as far as the draft is tracked over there every Monday, making it one of the most convenient resources for the draft-obsessed, such as myself.
Mike Minor, LHP, Vanderbilt University
DOB: 26th December, 1987
6'4", 195 lbs.
So, what's so great about this guy?
You guys remember Brian Matusz, the left-handed pitching prospect out of San Diego State last year? Well, if you're looking for the most similar pitcher in this year's draft, it just might be Mike Minor. Matusz probably had Minor in the velocity department, by a couple miles at the most, but otherwise, they're remarkably similar pitchers.
Your classic pitchability left-hander, Minor throws his fastball comfortably in the 90, 91 mph range, and has touched up to about 93 at times. His heater has that extra little squiggle that lefties always seem to have, allowing him to minimize hard contact. Minor's changeup may be his best pitch, and is probably already a legitimate out pitch, at least against right-handed hitters. He throws it with the same arm speed and release point as his fastball, and it has solid depth and fade. His command of both his fastball and changeup have allowed him to strike out right around a batter per inning in his college career, while walking less than 2.5 hitters per 9 innings.
Minor doesn't have a really good breaking ball at this point, though he does throw two that are usable at least. His slider has long been his go-to breaker, and it has tight rotation, but not a whole lot of depth. Last year, while pitching for Team USA in the qualifying rounds, he started tinkering around with more of a curveball, and while it's still loose and a little sloppy as of now, it has the potential to become the better breaking ball in the long term.
One of Minor's best qualities in college has been his ability to limit the longball, a testament to his ability to finish pitches and create movement. He gave up less than 1HR/9IP in both his freshman and sophomore seasons.
This spring, Minor hasn't been quite as impressive as he was thought to be coming in. His record stands at 4-4, 3.93, with a 79:24 strikeout to walk ratio in 73 innings. The strikeout rate is a little higher this year, which is promising, but the walks are up just a shade as well. He's probably been passed by Rex Brothers as the top college lefty in this year's draft, but is still easily a first round talent. If he's around at 19 (and I believe he likely will be), I could certainly see the Cardinals taking him. He reminds me a bit of another lefty out of Vanderbilt, Jeremy Sowers, one of my pet prospects who has had trouble translating his minor league track record of success into major league victories. Both are tall, lanky lefties with good but not overpowering stuff who command the zone remarkably well.
Minor's Draft Video (by the way, MLB, if you're listening, can we please get embeddable video, at least on the draft tracker? Pretty please?)
Andrew Oliver, LHP, Oklahoma State University
DOB: 3rd December, 1987
6'4", 205 lbs.
So, what's so great about this guy?
If Minor is the pitchability, finesse lefty of this draft, and Rex Brothers is the raw, stuff heavy guy, then Oliver splits the difference, marking the midpoint between the two.
Oliver's stuff is solid, starting with a fastball that he works to all corners of the zone at 88-93, with a little more in the tank if he needs it. He's very impressive working off the fastball, as he can throw it down in the zone working to contact, then elevate it to throw it by hitters late in the count. Over at Brewerfan, they compare him to Chuck Finley, and I think that's a pretty good comparison. Unlike Finley, though, Oliver doesn't have great complimentary pitches yet. He throws both a changeup and a breaking ball, but neither one is really a consistent weapon at this time. I say breaking ball because it can morph from a curve to a slider, and is pretty slurvy either way. The times I've managed to see him on video, it looked more like a curveball, but regardless of which way he chooses to try and develop it, the thing is going to need a fair amount of work.
The changeup is a little better, with good arm action, but it's fairly flat. If he telegraphs it even a little, it tends to get hit. Hard. Personally, looking at his arm action, I would be interested in seeing what Oliver could do with a split-finger pitch, but that's just me.
The other thing that stands out about Oliver is that he's in a little bit of an odd situation. He recently won a court case against the NCAA and got reinstates at Oklahoma State, after there was some question as to whether he violated rules in talking to advisors. It's sort of complicated, honestly, but it all boils down to this: Oliver is pitching now, the lawsuit seems to have maybe affected his performance this spring, and he is now a Scott Boras advisee. So, you know.
With the complications, I fully expect Oliver to still be on the board at 19 as well. He came into the spring ranked right behind Mike Minor as the top college lefty, with some pundits actually having him a little higher. (I liked Minor a shade better, just because of the outstanding walk rates, but they're both remarkable pitchers.) He would certainly be a more difficult and involved signing, one would think, but a team drafting him could very well be getting a #2 starter for years to come.
Here's a pretty great scouting video of him over at Baseball Beginnings, which I just found while looking for video of Mr. Oliver. Good, good stuff.
Rex Brothers, LHP, Lipscomb University
DOB: 18th December, 1987
6'1", 205 lbs.
So, what's so great about this guy?
First off, how weird is it that probably the three best left-handed pitchers in this draft were all born within a month of each other? That's just odd.
Anyway, while both Minor and Oliver have been hurt by their performances this spring, Rex Brothers is a serious helium guy. He came into the season rated the 77th best prospect by Baseball America, but is now seen as an almost sure-fire first rounder, and maybe the first college lefty off the board.
Brothers has a big, big arm, especially for a lefty, working consistently in the low- to mid-90s, topping out as high as 97. He sits comfortably at about 93, and can hold that velocity deep into games. It's a four seam fastball, and features explosive, riding life that makes his heater a swing-and-miss offering at times. His best pitch, though, may be his slider. The term wipeout is thrown around a lot, but it certainly applies to the pitch in this case. Brothers' slider come in in the mid-80s, and has a hard, late break that makes it almost unhittable, especially when he locates it for strikes. With two pitches that already rate as pluses and have the potential to be even better, Brothers has the best repertoire of any of the lefties in this group.
What he doesn't have, though, is the same kind of pitchability the other two do. Brothers lacks a changeup, as he really hasn't needed one to this point in college. His control and command are also both below average, though he has made significant strides in that area, which is the biggest reason he has shot up the draft boards so dramatically. No longer strictly a thrower, Brothers is learning that velocity isn't everything, and isn't leaning on trying to simply throw everything by hitters when he gets into trouble. If he continues to mature and develop, he could turn into a dominant pitcher.
Brothers isn't real big, at only 6'1", though he is solidly built, and I wonder if his rather small stature, combined with a two-pitch repertoire and middling command, might make some teams look at him as a better candidate for relief. Sort of a lefty Jess Todd, if you will. Or maybe just a little like Daniel Schlereth from last year's draft.
Sadly, I can't offer you any video of Brothers, nor can I give you even a first-hand report of seeing him, as I haven't been able to find anything on him. The other two I've gotten a few looks at, at least, this spring, but Brothers, I suppose because he's out of a smaller school like Lipscomb, is much harder to find.
All three of these pitchers represent a possibility for the Cardinals at 19, though I doubt that all three will get there. I expect probably two of the three, though which two I wouldn't hazard to guess. The Cards' organisation has a serious weakness in left-handed starting pitching, and any of these three pitchers would obviously offer outstanding positional value in that regard.
We know that the Cardinals did have some interest in Christian Friedrich last year (or at least we have reports that they did, so take that for whatever it may be worth), but liked the bat of Wallace too much to pass up. Still, the profile of Friedrich fits well with what the Cards need, so we can transfer that over to this year's class. If another college lefty with the ability to stick at starting comes their way, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see one of these guys popped.
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what better time than now
to turn around our losing ways vs. the Pirates?
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions
I don't know why
but I love following the minors and hate following draft prospects. I think part of it is that I just don’t care too much about guys outside our system. Maybe it is a progressive thing, I want to understand the minor league system first before getting into college and high school and maybe it is a sense of being overwhelmed. I don’t know.
Anyone else that likes the Minors but just can’t get into draft talk?
I don’t mean to tell you not to post the previews but for some reason I just can’t read past the opening part even though I would like to. I would like to have a personal draft board for draft day of my top 10 for the Cards or something but I just can’t seem to do that.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 6, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I am overwhelmed...
but this is a good first glimpse of who might be a cardinal, and who we should talk about targeting… with that said, when is this draft thing? I hope to go to another river bandits game this year, maybe I’ll catch one this weekend.
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love
for the Cards to have a solid #2/#3ish lefty starter. Were they to go this route, which of these three do you think they would take? I have my doubts that Brothers would make it in this Duncanization…how did you put it…“a four seam fastball, and features explosive, riding life that makes his heater a swing-and-miss offering at times.” Am I totally off-base on this?
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill
Of the three,
I believe Oliver has the repertoire most conducive to generating groundball outs, but I won’t swear to it. Minor would likely be the choice of the stat wing, as his ratios, K/BB and the like, are probably the strongest.
Personally, Oliver would probably be my choice. I really like him. Of course, I also would prefer Matt Purke to any of them, but I don’t think that’s really a very likely scenario.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on May 6, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I am holding out hopefor Gibson
the Mizzou guys have been pretty good of late, bout time we got one of em. His fastball might not be the best in the world, but who needs one of those round these parts anyway?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
His fastball will come once someone speeds up his delivery
Unbelievably slow body tempo—-the arm speed is there and he’s slowly filling out. It’s coming. And if/when he figures out how to dial up 94 5 6 instead of 92 93 it’s pretty much game over. There’s just no chance you could account for that slider, 95 AND a good changeup (average my ass, it’s consistently a 60 change when he throws it).
(Side note: he’s also horrifyingly bad at holding runners, it’s onethousandone-onethousandtwo-go every time every pitch out of the stretch…it’s a joke.)
Not afraid to nitpick
Joe Blanton's middle name is Frank?
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
I think it's Freddie
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
it could be that he shares one with me
Farris
My brain has shut down completely so my butt is doing all the thinking.
maybe it's Felix
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Short for Francis.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on May 6, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Most mock drafts I've seen
have us taking Minor at #19. Obviously this fills an organizational need, but are there other players you expect to be on the board at this spot that the Cardinals would be better off taking RB?
The good college middle infielders in this draft seem to be going in the top 12 so the Cards probably won’t have a chance to grab any of them.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
It's too bad
Grant Green would be a nice get.
Since I know nothing about these guys (although I actually saw at least Minor's name on a couple mock drafts here and there)
I will just say that, should we end up taking Minor, it might be the right choice simply because he has the most pun-able name of the three. Brothers takes second place, with Oliver third.
The graphics folks at FS Midwest agree
Did anyone else notice their extensive punning of “Wain” or “Waino” last night? It really stuck out to me for some reason.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Puns like that seem to be mandatory
I expect to see something like “Waino looks to ’wright the ship against [opponent]”
As I peer into the flow of time through my dark talents I also foresee…
Minor Thing: Cards first round pick promoted… Minor Leaguer: Lefty pitcher shoots up the ranks… Gold Minor: Cardinals draft pick makes good on potential… Brothers smothers: strikes out 9 in 8-inning effort… He Ain’t Heavy, He’s Brothers… Oliver And Company: Cardinals’ 2009 draftees make progress… etc. etc.
my concern about Minor
is that he might be a career minor leaguer
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean...
“career Minor leaguer”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nah
not what I meant… that’s a little too obvious for me
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
when Oliver gives up a homerun
it goes “Please sir, I want some more!”
I have changed my mind, I want Oliver drafted by the Cards
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on May 6, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please sir I want some more
lol, rec
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
3 HR to 2
The Cards mashed 3 homers last night to the Phillies’ 2. However, the Phils amassed 4 runs off of the long-ball while the Redbirds tallied 3, due to all of their HR being solo shots. Not that this made a tremendous difference in the run count and final score—a single run—but, the timing of Werth’s 3-run blast was deflating. Right after an improbable (I consider all of Yadi’s homers to be “improbable”) Yadi blast cut the lead to one, Wainwright was unable to wriggle out a RISP jam, getting scalded with Werth’s upper deck blast which erased our offense’s efforts in reducing a 4-0 lead to a single run. That said, their lineup bludgeoned the Duncanites to death over two games. What a brutal show of force by the defending champs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this is where clutch stuff becomes important
our timing with the homers was off, but then again, it’s mostly random anyway… still, I think we can all agree that the Phillies are known to be more “clutch”
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
it seems to me that that is the way it is
we have a lot of hitters who are not that clutch… I could be way off base though
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
over at fangraphs
it has the Phillies at 3.12 clutch rating, and the Cards as .75
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
4.99 to 2.52 WPA
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
OT
You going to any of the Memphis – Iowa series this weekend, bgh?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I am indeed, sir
My girlfriend’s mom works for MidAmerican so we have the company employee tickets for Friday and Sunday behind the Cubs’ dugout (4th or 5th row). I am excited. I may shoot for seats behind the Redbirds’ dugout for Saturday night, or, maybe endure the setting sun and sit down by the Redbirds’ ’pen.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Very nice
I’m going to be there on Friday night for sure, not sure where we’re sitting yet, but I might just grab some GA tickets and sit out by the scoreboard. Was thinking about hitting up the High Life for a beer and a burger pre-game if you’re interested…
Probably won’t be there Saturday or Sunday, stupid wedding planning! :-(
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I'll need to see what our pre-game show will consist of, but I'd be up for a $2 beer before entering the land of $7 beers
Your email still fourstick@gmail.com?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
hit me up with an email on Friday and we’ll figure out the pre-game…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Hmmm
Shane Robinson may be plucked from Memphis in favor of St. Louis, should the Cards decide Ankiel needs more time. So, I guess Robinson will be in Des Moines this weekend.
If Ankiel is going to need a week or so to recover, then carrying 13 pitchers on the roster would likely force a move. A candidate could be Shane Robinson, who is hitting .375 with a .434 on-base percentage. Robinson is set to come off the Class AAA disabled list and would have to be added to the 40-man roster.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He is already off the disabled list
He played yesterday and today already
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
DFR
I’ve missed my DFRs the last few days. (Unacceptable, I know.) I was unaware of this. Didn’t Goold have him on the DL only yesterday in his 10@10 (which I have not missed any day)?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I just checked the Box Score of Memphis Game today
And saw he was back. So was Salas. Todd and Salas is going to make a good 1 and 2 combo in the bullpen
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Good to know
Hopefully, I will witness the Salas-Todd combo this weekend…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty Good Today
3.0 IP 2H 1BB 2SO 0ER
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
OT , (but not really, it is baseball related)
going to my first weekday game in years. Anyone know of any decent parking within walking distance of the park? And by decent, I mean like free.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
woh
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What a slouch
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Comparisons
Wainwright: 123
Lohse: 133
Pineiro: 132
MLB Leaderboard:
1. Greinke (KCR) 1170
2. Santana (NYM) 392
3. Haren (ARI) 315
4. Cueto (CIN) 274
5. Jurrjens (ATL) 226
6. Bedard (SEA) 196
7. Rodriguez (HOU) 195
8. Billingsley (LAD) 193
9. Duke (PIT) 188
10. Braden (OAK) 178
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
yay
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It's scary...
when a player in real life, is better than my created character in 09 The Show.
of the pitchers likely to fall to us, i think oliver sounds pretty cool.
and i think it’s probably likely we’ll end up with a draftee who is
a) a pitcher
b) left-handed
c) coming out of college
so, odds are, somewhere on this page is the next cards draft pick.
Saved the best for last, RB?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
slow, straight fastball of wonder
great stuff as usual Red. after watching that game last night, i felt like i spent 3 1/2 hours banging my head against a brick wall.
anyone read Gould’s 10@10 today? #3 is about Russ sending the club two of his new A’s cleats to hang in Franky & Wano’s lockers. that’s like, weird isn’t it?
Gould also wrote this about TRL’s reasons for having a short bench. i still don’t understand why they are taking a chance with Rick. for the life of me i can’t understand why they are playing with fire & not DL’ing him already. and why can’t they see putting Skippy back in the OF is a bad idea? isn’t MO supposed to be smarter than this?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
maybe rick has some kind of no DL clause in his contract
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
This is so LaRussa
St. Louis Cardinals infielder Brian Barden, a superb glove with the journeyman flecks of gray in his hair, was validated as a 28-years-old rookie this week by winning the league’s rookie of the month award. He crossed paths with manager Tony La Russa outside the team’s clubhouse Monday and got what passes for congratulations in May.
"Rookie of the month!" La Russa said.
"Thanks, skipper," Barden said.
"But," La Russa said walking into the clubhouse, "that was last month."
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Barden won ROTM with like 10 ABs
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
he's quite the comedian
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Once you figure out what a joke everything is, being the Comedian's the only thing that makes sense

Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
nice
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by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That is awesome
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
why am i the only one to rec that?
it’s awesome
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
hey team!
Just signed up, this is my first post… been following for over a year though, love the insight!
Does anyone know where I could find batting/on-base averages split out by leverage? I’ve been getting the feeling that Thursty is this year’s Ankiel — stats you wouldn’t kick out of bed, but nothing when you really need it.
Baseball reference and Fangraphs both have situational hitting stats
Such as Late and Close and such.
I haven’t seen a site yet that has them split by leverage index however.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Uber-Site Baseball-Reference.com
Here are Thurston’s. Not by leverage. I, too, have never seen such a split breakdown (hint, hint Fangraphs).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Never seen it by leverage?
Literally under the “clutch stats” section is “Leverage”.
Not afraid to nitpick
Good Lord
I looked right at it. Maybe I do need new glasses. My eyes have been going bad, spending all my time in my mom’s basement and all…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
But those aren't split out by
leverage index, like I’ve seen done for relievers. That’s what he’s looking for I believe.
The only way to do such a thing would be to look at WPA for AB’s occurring from the 7th inning on I would guess.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
true
but can I look them up AB by AB and determine what the leverage was for each specific AB? Like if I was creating a database of leverage situations in the 7th inning with a leverage of 1.8 or higher for certain hitters? No, I can’t. When he says “broken out” I’m assuming that’s what he’s referring to: being able to drill down and look at the actual AB by AB.
When dealing with small sample sizes like this for leverage situations, it would be advantageous to be able to see who the pitcher was, whether the hitter was pinch hitting, the hitter’s success level off of that pitcher, and so on.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
You are correct sir
His OPS in high lvg situations is .508.
Late and Close it’s even lower.
WPA seems to back it up
His current WPA is +0.17; taking Leverage Index out of the picture bumps it up to +0.28, meaning that his performance in higher pressure situations has been lacking.
He does have company – LaRue, Skippy, Ankiel, & Tyler
The most clutch – Duncan, Albert, Luddy, & Yadi
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
Good to stop lurking
I don’t know exactly what you are looking for but Fangrahps has Leverage Index’s when you go to the players page and click on Play Logs
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 6, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I missed it...
or it’s assumed, but are all of these guys seniors. You make the comment about Oliver being hard to sign…is that in a he has another year (two) of eligibility or he might go all indy league?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
the word way...
is supposed to be in there somewhere.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
being a boras "advisee" i think.
boras often demands high bonuses for his ‘advisees’ and threatens to have them play another year, either in college or indy leagues (done with aaron crow last year). oliver is a junior so he could pitch another year at college or go to the indy leagues.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Dunno if you meant it like that
But Crow (and Scheppers) weren’t/aren’t Boras guys.
Not afraid to nitpick
crow is represented by the hendricks brothers. sorry for any confusion.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
tonight's lineup
1. Brian Barden, 3B
2. Joe Thurston, 2B
3. Albert Pujols, 1B
4. Ryan Ludwick, RF
5. Yadier Molina, C
6. Chris Duncan, LF
7. Khalil Greene, SS
8. Mitchell Boggs, P
9. Colby Rasmus, CF
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
Pitchers hit eighth!
n/t
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
KG's back... hmmm
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rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
and pitcher bats 8th!
I feel nostalgic
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rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this lineup, I think
Of course, if we have PAs like we’ve been having, the order won’t really matter. I hope TLR gives a good talk about being more aggressive at the plate before the game.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
how about we try not to be like the DBacks
and show some patience at the plate?
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rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I thought I evidenced my sarcasm by referencing our horrible PAs over the last few games before demanding a pre-game pep talk from The Comedian TLR about aggressiveness at the bat.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
I’m being very dry today
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever happened to damage in the 2nd spot
I’m not sold on Thursty 2nd. I’d rather see Colby or Dunc there.
I just don't understand TLR's infatuation with Thurston
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
Maybe he had too many pretzels.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on May 6, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I get it
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
he's not bad?
would you rather have tyler greene play?
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rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather he not start 95% of the games
He’s not an everyday player, and he’s getting overexposed.
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
This is a good lineup vs a lefty
The only lefty hitter at the top is Thruston, who is on fire… I like it.
Two lefty OF’s had to play and they are batting 6th and 9th… This is a good way to stash these lefty vs left matchups lower in the order.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Tony LaRussa is the best manager in baseball.
thrustin thurston!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I like "Go-Go-Joe Thurston"
I thought of it after I watched his foolish baserunning errors last night on the Official Site.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 6, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
thursty's on fire?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
Cards played ugly, weak baseball
We scored 7 runs with 3 HRs… Ugly? Sure. Weak? Not too bad.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
yeah
3 home runs is not that weak… too bad wainer didn’t show up last night
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 6, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions

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