TLR = #1

I certainly cannot disagree with the link. Nice to see somebody from outside the organization feel the same way.

8 months ago SoonerfanTU 21 comments 0 recs |

Comments

Yah

But he also has Dusty Baker in the top 10, so grains of salt are necessary :-)

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 31, 2009 8:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

2 days later the p-d runs an article by Rick Hummel entitled Dusty Baker’s managing wins it for Cincinnati Reds — against LaRussa’s Cards. Now, I’m one who believes that players, not managers, win and lose games. Nevertheless, I love irony.

by chuckb on Jun 2, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The number one manager in baseball did the following today:

PH for the third baseman, thus removing said third baseman from the game for the day
Remove the PH for a defensive sub, thus removing said PH from the game for the day

He burned two players in one AB.

Oh, did I mention this was in the FIFTH INNING?

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on May 31, 2009 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I still don't think that move was that bad

the main issue is, because we’re carrying a horrible short bench, long relievers we aren’t using, and about 50 middle infielders, that double-switch really restricted our options the rest of the game. So it wasn’t the move I dislike, it’s more that the roster construction that screwed things up…

Not letting Barden hit in a very high leverage AB seemed sensible.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 1, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, either way

You have to be pissed at something regarding that AB. Whether it was the decision to burn two position players at once (which is what I’m pissed at) or the decision to do so with such a short bench (which is what you’re pissed at), there was something wrong about it.

What I say is, why not just let Rasmus PH and then go play CF? Then you still have Duncan’s bat for later in the game.

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Jun 1, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But Rasmus isn't a proven veteran (TM)

still, I can buy into that…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 31, 2009 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is so you.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Jun 1, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The fact that

Manny Acta was listed at #27 tells you all you need to know about this list. Joe Torre’s being at #5 tells you something as well.

by chuckb on Jun 2, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What does it tell you?

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 2, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Manny Acta is a good manager who has a very crappy team

Joe Torre is a bad manager with a good rep (hmm) and a very good team.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Jun 2, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Hard to measure guys like that.....

I think Torre is better than you give him credit for though. A bad manager? I don’t think he was very good when he was in STL, and I think he probably needs a certain type of team, but no way of really telling, since he has managed the Yanks and Dodgers, two fairly talent-laden teams.

Acta doesn’t do much for me.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 2, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Acta doesn’t do much for me.

Well given that he is the only manager who seems to actually respect and utilize sabermetric principles, instead of “their gut”, I can see why.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Jun 3, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And on the flip side.....

Maybe that is why YOU think so highly of him.

HOW somebody manages isn’t a factor in this. Results are. If a manager finds a way to manage from his house, and he wins, he should be high on the list.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Results are the way to judge managers?

The players win the games, not managers. If you want to determine best manager by results, just look at the standings at the end of the year.

Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."

by all4tookie on Jun 3, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"HOW somebody manages isn’t a factor in this. Results are. "

so when manny acta does his best with the steaming pile they call the nats, only the results matter?

and when joe torre gets the most expensive baseball team of all time and wins a lot, only the results matter?

so, the fact that manny acta has a rotation without anybody on it who would get more than a spot start in St. Louis and which up until a week ago had danny f-ing cabrera on it, doesn’t get factored in at all?

and the fact that torre succeeded with pitchers like, oh say, roger clemens and andy pettite, doesn’t weigh in your analysis?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Jun 3, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would you judge a 3B or SS or CF or ANYONE based on winning percentage??

Then why would you do it for managers, who certainly have a far smaller impact on game outcomes than players?

Just because winning is the most easily identifiable way to measure a manager DOES NOT make it a good way, at all.

Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."

by all4tookie on Jun 3, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say the best measure would be

career win/loss record, season-by-season, against the projections (say, CHONE or something) for the roster at the start of the year. You’d obviously have to weight any mid-season acquisitions/losses too (i.e. Yost shouldn’t get credit for the fact his team traded for one of the best starters in baseball last year).

Also, I’d think career win/loss record vs pythagorean would be telling. The ability of a manager to micromanage his team to wins in close games (something TLR’s supposed to be good at) would presumably be reflected in his teams consistently beating their pythag (or is my thinking here flawed?).

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I bet

if we used this method, you’d probably find that managers are much of a muchness, at least in the short term. I’m guessing you need 10+ seasons to be pretty sure of anything, so it probably only really works on guys like TLR who’ve been in the game a while.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Jun 4, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yost shouldn't get any credit for the Brewers last year

Because they fired him midseason because he was one of the worst managers ever.

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Jun 4, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How does one measure how good of a manager a manager is?

It’s always been my impression that talented players win games. TLR wins when he has talent and loses when he doesn’t. Torre wins when he has talent and loses when he doesn’t. Acta loses when he doesn’t have talent. Lou Pineilla wins when he has talent and loses when he doesn’t. I’ve never really liked shallow articles like this one, which don’t even have any sort of analysis as to whether or not the manager’s decisions were good ones. What do their PHers hit? What is their pythag record? It’s an easy analysis to do, so why doesn’t the Globe—or some other newspaper—do it?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jun 3, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs