Theoretically we could just move Who to third, but I Don't Know
by DanUpBaby on May 29, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
439 comments
Once the trade talk begins it's tough to put it back into the tube—players who were just plain old average last week, faces in the Baseball Tonight crowd, become targets the next. To Adrian Beltre, the Best Case Scenario, and Mark DeRosa, Mr. Too Sensible to Happen, I briefly add two more boring choices: Kevin Kouzmanoff and Joe Crede. I've never been more excited about dinged-up third basemen with OBP issues.
Kouzmanoff is one of those guys who might have peaked in the minor leagues—as a 24 year-old in the Cleveland system he split time between AA and AAA (the pitching friendlier International League) and hit a combined .379/.437/.656, setting Travis Hafner fans' hearts aflutter. After that 2006 season the Indians turned him into Josh Barfield, who proceeded to fall off the face of the earth after his broad-based rookie year, and the Padres prepared for a big rookie season—he was 25 and considered major league ready—that never came.
In 2007 and 2008 he was basically an average hitter, which is not an attractive proposition when playing in Petco Park, and in 2009 he's joined Adrian Beltre in struggling mightily. But he's just about average defensively—the Fielding Bible and UZR peg him within five runs on opposite sides—and haven't the Cardinals earned, at this point, a he's-leaving-Petco-behind move that succeeds? (Kouzmanoff's home/away split is .690/.783, for what it's worth; there's that Petco effect again, poised to disappoint.)
Provided that his awful start to 2009 is a slump, and not the early signs of a long-term battle with anxiety, Kouzmanoff is a perfect gap-plugger; he's average all the way around, and while he lacks Adrian Beltre's upside prospect watchers will not soon forget that he hit .333 and .379 over the course of two minor league seasons.
His vices and virtues aside, we do know that the Kouz is on the trading block; the Padres are at the part of their fire sale where they offer $2.99 gasoline for three years, having moved from entertaining offers about Peavy to salary-dumping Jody Gerut in about a month, and Kouzmanoff, vaguely average, hitting his prime right now, is best utilized as a complimentary piece on a much better team. As an added bonus, the Cardinals would be prying him right out of the hands of the Bear-Cubs, who[se local sportswriters] are looking to make him the Harry Steinfeldt portion of their Sad Lexicon.
Joe Crede is more directly the poor man's Adrian Beltre; he's nearly as virtuosic with the glove, and similarly frustrating with the bat. But where Beltre frustrates in his inability to smash another 48 home runs, and has reeled off a few above-average seasons since, Joe Crede's halcyon days involved an OBP of .323 and 150 games played. Since then he's missed lots of pitches and wide swaths of season, caused by a fundamental lack of plate discipline and serious back problems repaired surgically, respectively.
But right now Crede's a member of the Twins, who are still just a few games off the division pace and are probably too busy riding Joe Mauer's visit to Ted Williamsburg to sell off starters for whom they have no immediate replacement. That said, should they struggle he'll be a prime target—he's on a one year contract, and his gimpy back means that he's most valuable to a team that isn't counting on him for 2010.
Unless the Cardinals can lure one of these prospective candidates to San Francisco in time for the sleep-addling 9:15 start, though, the options are a little more pedestrian: Joe Thurston and Brian Barden, who, for all their troubles, are still fighting for league average OPSes. Thurston, in particular, confuses me—the wrap on him throughout his career, the one that cut off his tenure as the top prospect in the Dodgers organization, was that he had no secondary skills to go with his high batting average.
Now, two months into the season, he's hitting .246/.353/.404, which is more Jack Cust than Juan Pierre. In May he's gone Full Branyan, .217/.338/.400. He—or Oquendo—thinks too much of his speed on the basepaths, and he shouldn't be playing third base every day, or even every other day. But he's earned his spot on the 25-man roster. May's been less charitable for Barden, who's down to .130/.200/.239 and who has actually played more this month than last, in spite of that stretch where he was the bench's invisible answer to Brad Thompson.
#
Meanwhile, that off day meant that we had plenty of time to prepare for Ludwick Day, the feast day on our holy calendar that marks the beginning of a period in which Albert Pujols is not intentionally walked twice a day. And with what did the P-D mark this occasion? Palm fronds? Candles? How about a momentary speculation about the end of Khalil Greene speculation?
The club remained in what one club official called a "fact-gathering" mode Thursday regarding the issues confronting shortstop Khalil Greene and possible responses to those issues. Mozeliak and manager Tony La Russa likely will discuss how to proceed tonight. Greene is struggling with an anxiety-related condition that increasingly weighs on his on-field performance. After projecting consecutive starts for the club's most significant off-season acquisition, La Russa reconsidered Wednesday against the Milwaukee Brewers and instead met with his player at length after leaving him out of the lineup.
I can't wait for some kind of resolution, however preliminary it may be, because at this point Khalil Greene's presence on the roster is impossible to analyze. Either the anxiety problems don't weigh on his performance, and have been extrapolated too readily from unclear wording in newspaper articles, or he's just not ready to play; even if it's something in between his presence on the roster doesn't make much sense until we know what the Cardinals know.
If nothing else, I hope that tomorrow, or in the next few days, we move from this state of total uncertainty. Pragmatically it's important because the Cardinals have hamstrung their bench already, with a sore outfielder and a long reliever. But really I just want to know that Khalil and the Cardinals have a plan to deal with a problem that's most frightening in its vagueness.
4 recs |
439 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
yay trades!
I really love trades. The gamble teams take in trying to receive more than they give up; the hugh injection old dudes can give a team as they briefly rediscover what they had in their youth versus the cliff dive crashing disappointment of trades that don’t work for one side or both. Also, how great is it to track the effect specific trades have years after the fact? All the what-ifs and the like. Trades are one of the great things about baseball. All the possibilities- it’s like going to the breakfast cereal aisle of the store when I was kid.
The Cards stink at 3rd. I think that’s no secret.
Briefly;
Crede- no, Kouz- no, Beltre- yes, bring thunder thighs up (you know Al, it really is)- maybe, DeRosa- maybe
I would really prefer for the Cards to focus on Beltre. He doesn’t need to hit 48 homers to improve the situation at 3rd. He’s got a nice glove and he can hit some.
Like Mr. UpBaby, the K. Greene situation gets more disturbing to me with each day. I’m still wondering, is his clinical anxiety or something more garden variety? I suppose that’s the question the team is (hopefully) dealing with.
by Scarecrow7775 on May 29, 2009 7:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Brandon Wood?
this idea got no traction yesterday? What package could we put together for LAA?
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on May 29, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have liked him
for a long time. He doesn’t get the playing time he deserves, but the angels seam to be a hard team to deal with. I really would like him at short. Imagine Wallace 3b, Wood ss, Zobrist 2b, and Pujols. Well, I can dream can’t I.
by nybirdfan on May 29, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh Wood is a ss
well, that changes everything. disregard my post.
Sure, why not give the LAA a ring as see what’s what. The system doesn’t look heavy in ss prospects, so why not?
by Scarecrow7775 on May 29, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is he good?
I know nothing about Wood, but looking at his numbers at baseballreference.com I would think it wouldn’t take much. I assume there is a large upside with him. What’s the word?
He’s obviously young so I’m not sure if he fits what the Cards are looking for. To make a midseasonish trade for young third baseman when the most buzz-worthy and fastest riser in the system is a third baseman- it just doesn’t add up for me.
by Scarecrow7775 on May 29, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is. Or, at least, he should be.
Wood is one of those guys whose top-end comps are hall of famers and people like that; he’s currently putting up a 1.007 OPS in Triple A this year. Good defensively, power is just off the charts, but has always struggled with low contact rates, and hasn’t yet been able to translate his minor league numbers into major league success.
Personally, I kind of think of him as Troy Glaus at shortstop. So yes, he could be a very, very impressive player. It’s very strange that the Angels seem so willing to let him just sort of hang around in limbo.
Problem is, no one can make a deal with the Angels for prospects. They don’t use the guys, but they never seem to move them for anything either. Really weird.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on May 29, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they don't use the guys, but they never seem to move them for anything either
gee, that sounds familiar.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on May 29, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
somewhere, brian anderson's ears are burning.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on May 29, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice title
Love the title, but what about moving What to third and I Don’t Know to second?
/sarcasm off
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 29, 2009 8:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's a nice whole article!
About every other paragraph I had to stop to consider the symbolism and references. hahah.
by sdrone on May 29, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I found the whole piece to be top-notch. Well done, Mr. Upbaby!
by cardsgirl95 on May 29, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So who's waiting on an All-Star tickets lottery e-mail today?
No whammies, no whammies, no whammies…
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on May 29, 2009 8:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Everyone's afraid of jinxing themselves, eh?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on May 29, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I apparently jinxed myself.
Damn.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on May 29, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to swap Greene's....now!!
Please…get on with it and place Khalil on the DL while the organization tries to figure out how to treat him (medication or trade or even walking papers).
Then please bring Tyler Greene back up. He sure looked like a major league SS during his time up. His glove is ready and his bat seemed to be settling in with so additional upside in the future. His defense alone keeps him on the team.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on May 29, 2009 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How about Mean Joe?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on May 29, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of Beltre
He will come around with the bat. He could hit 2nd or 5th or 7th you know Tony. He would cost dollars but should be fairly reasonable as far as prospects. DeRosa seams like a good second choice. The advantage there is that he might be some one we would want to keep. If he fits in the club house he would be a great guy to have on the bench next year. Yes I know he is in his walk year, but why not re-sign him. I also would like the Cards to make a move for a pitcher. Welley could be move to the pen. There is a very good chance they can win the NLCS. So GO FOR IT!
by nybirdfan on May 29, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A commenter yesterday
mentioned going after Erik Bedard and taking on Beltre’s contract as a throw-in. From what I understand, Bedard’s kind of a douche, though. Hopefully not Marquis-level douchery.
What about some combination of:
Wellemeyer
Boggs/Walters/Ottavino/Mortenson (choose 2)
Freese/Craig/Anderson (choose 1)
Adjust level of cash to taste.
by Anonymous Communist on May 29, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that it has been said ad nauseum
but if K Greene is having this much trouble, maybe they need to DL him and let them take the time to figure out whats going on. If its something mental, I think Dan or Red Baron or one of our great posters said, its not going to be fixed by one great play or one great game. Its something that takes time and patient, something that being on the active roster doesn’t allow for.
by JBagKY on May 29, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bernie's reporting today
Khalil is “either headed to the DL or may be headed out” Bernie’s PressBox forum
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on May 29, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That really is a shame. He is a great guy from what I have read about him.
He seems to have all the tools minus the mental aspect of this game.
I
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Khalil
He seems to be a bit of a lovable flake, which are always my favorite players.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was really excited about him, too...
but this is kind of inexcusable. I say just shoot him up with a dose or twenty of whatever magic sauce got Greinke’s head out of the sand. Maybe that’s harsh, but he is being payed quite a bit to mope around the dugout right now. Drugs, DL or whatever – I really do feel for him, but something’s got to happen.
by rowboat on May 29, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grienke
took a year off and got real help. that’s what K-Bot needs.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on May 29, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"real help" = Zoloft
Seriously, the dude’s on another planet right now.
by rowboat on May 29, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope he's not
“headed out” if that implies DFA’d. The man needs help, not to be abandoned by his organization. It would be a classless thing for the team to do.
by chuckb on May 29, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know where you are coming from chuck, but...
Is that the role of the organization? Or, is it the individual’s responsibility? For him to get the help he needs, he likely needs to be on the DL. If Khalil refuses to go onto the DL, what other choice do the Cardinals have? Sitting on the bench every day is of no help to him or the club. DFA’ing Khalil leaves him on his own as to treatment, to be sure, but it leaves him as such with about $6.5MM in his pocket, if I’m not mistaken. While my first inclination was to agree wholeheartedly with you, I don’t know that DFA’ing him is so classless on the Cardinals’ part. It’s a very tricky situation and we are in the dark on a lot of the important facts and circumstances surrounding it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he refuses a DL assignment
that might change things but the DL is an option and if the team chooses to DFA rather than DL, they should be publicly excoriated. You’re right that it makes no sense to give him a roster spot and then not use him. That’s why he belongs on the DL.
by chuckb on May 29, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the DL
But I thought that it should have been done when the P-D published revelations of him self-punishing (or, however Straussy worded it). He should not be using up a roster spot at this point in time and a DL stint would be best for all parties involved. Hopefully, that would be enough to get him the help he needs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does
the player have the option to refuse the DL???
by cdb on May 29, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In situations like this,
yes. For a broken leg, no.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that I
am encouraging such behavior, but haven’t the Cards FO fabricated injuries in the past – Izzy comes to mind….. That seems like a very fuzzy grayish-hued line to draw.
by cdb on May 29, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fabricated injuries?
is that related in any wat to fabriche eggs?
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy enough to fabricate
Buy a NERF cooler and have him punch it.
In all seriousness, I am sure any baseball player at any time is dealing with some sort of physical issue, be it soreness, tightness, etc… It’s not hard to come up with a semi-legitimate excuse. Getting the player to go along might be the problem.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 29, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, A stupid thing for them to do
He is statistically been one of the unluckiest players in baseball this year.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was, and still am, heartened by his walk rate
From 5.4% last season to 10.3% this season.
And, as you point out, his BABIP is over 40 points below his career average. This, with him on pace to set a career low for GB% and a career high for LD%.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could trade for Beltre's 4.1%BB walk rate this year
I didn’t even know it could go down that low
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's worse than Juan Encarnacion in '06!
(For those of you wondering, it was 5.1%.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can imagine there might be scenarios where being DFA'd is actually more helpful
As long as he’s with an organization he has some sort of obligation to that organization, and even if the club is very patient with a guy, the longer it takes him to recover the more he’s not helping the bottom line. For all we know he just needs to get out of baseball entirely for a while; maybe he just needs to take some time off and sort things out. If that is the case than it would free up the Cards to fill the gap and free up Khalil to work out his own problems, without the worry of hurting or causing a drag on the team he’s signed with. I hope it’s not that bad, but I have tried not to assume anything at all about the Greene situation, just like with Glaus. Hopefully it won’t come to that, but I can see how a DFA can be a good faith, no hard feelings, etc. etc. solution.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I hope he’s not "headed out" if that implies DFA’d. The man needs help, not to be abandoned by his organization. It would be a classless thing for the team to do.
by chuckb
I feel the same way but if he won’t try to help him self this is a business and the Cards will have to move on and let him go.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are in "fact-gathering mode"
sounds sort of big brother-esque
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greene's problem is that the keeps thinking double-plus ungood thoughts.
He needs to be re-educated.
Should I actually read that book someday? I have always loved Animal Farm, but 1984 has become such a cliche in many ways that I’ve been scared away from it.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worth the read
I know that it has been popularized but 1984 is a great book and is well worth your time. It’s vision of an anti-utopian future is chilling.
by indakind on May 29, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that it's still not required reading for high schoolers is kind of alarming.
by rowboat on May 29, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was required at my high school
and I’m glad it was. Great read.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on May 29, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never made it through 1984
and was a good student of Animal Farm, Ayn Rand, and various Aldous Huxley vehicles. probably should try and go back to it, though.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huxley is excellent
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't it a bit ironic to demand that the government require kids to read"1984"?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on May 29, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that like a salad fork on your wedding day or something?
/hates Canadians
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
rec’d
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best. Novel. Ever.
It’s a must-read. Even if you read it in high school – you should read it again because the underlying concepts (including Newspeak and the link between language and thought/senses) probably can’t be appreciated at that age.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 29, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should I actually read that book someday?
Absolutely. Great book.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on May 29, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
only read part of it
one of the classics that I missed while reading dungeons and dragons: forgotten realms books (not to mention the 3000 comics I collected until I turned 22 or so)
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GREENE'R PASTORS
i still think khalil can hit, once he gets over the anxiety issue, this type of thing requires patience, so a stint on the DL and away from the game for a while could work wonders…zack grienke ring a bell? and as for tyler greene im excited for this guy, i do agree he needs to be playing
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"colonel sanders
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A problem with placing K. Greene on the DL...
…he would have to agree to that move, since his “injury” isn’t of the garden-variety “hurt shoulder/back/knee/etc.” variety.
There’s a lot we don’t know about mental illnesses, but it is known that they are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Therapy can only help so much; after that, medication is the “next step”. Entirely too many people (ballplayers or no) think they can “deal” with mental issues without help. I hope, for his sake, Khalil gets psychiatric help whether he plays baseball or not.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on May 29, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
K.Greene rehab
Instead of sending Greene down to the minors for rehab, maybe we can send him to a MLB team that nobody cares about and there isn’t any pressure to succeed, like the Nationals or the Marlins.
That being said, I feel bad for Greene. I know that anxiety is not an easy thing to recover from, and that a lot of medications that they could give him would most likely take away from his reaction time at short.
by graffin on May 29, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure Nats or Fish will be better
I may be biased, by STL’s got to be one of the best towns for ballplayers. Booing Motte aside, I can think of very few recent examples where this town has gotten on a player. And specially not after finding out that K-bot’s got some issues. Furthermore, this town cares about baseball and their team. I think they are supportive to K-bot. So is it better to be in a town that does not care, or a town that cares?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 29, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a weird faith in the STL effect
Will Clark and Larry Walker, I’m looking at you.
And I’ll overlook Andres Gallaraga.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not all mental illness is caused by chemical imbalance.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on May 29, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but it is known that they are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.
There are so many different neurotransmitters and hormones that interact and influence brain and neural activity that saying chemical imbalances cause mental problems is like picking whose bullet killed a guy being shot by a 1000-member firing squad. It’s not necessarily a wrong conclusion, but it’s far more complicated than that. Hence the reason why the best results are achieved with a combination of psychotherapy and proper medication. However, as with everything scientific, that is a general trend and not necessarily relevant to one person. In that case, you’re dealing with a n=1 study.
Greene probably needs some time away and to sit down with a psychiatric professional, and then go from there. Medication may or may not be the best course in his case, and no amount of VEB amateur psychology should or is going to influence his decisions from here on out.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on May 29, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre's the guy - give it a try
We really need Abbot and Costello to reprise their ditty, given the Cardinals in 2009. Who’s on first is not a problem, as long as his elbow holds up; but what’s on second changes day to day, and what I don’t know on third sometimes makes my throat dry – I’m Thirsty for an answer. That answer, in my mind is Beltre. Although he’s pricey, Seattle has already paid him a third of his salary, and the cost in prospects should keep Ludlow happy. The Cardinals really need to make this deal; plugging Beltre into the lineup would be transforming. He may not hit 48 long balls, but his return to the National League and his liberation from playing half his games in a park that’s death to flying things would be huge. This is not to mention his defense, which is first rate.
Geez, go get this guy.
by deweydell on May 29, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm telling you, I think DeRosa is actually a better fit for our team in our lineup than Beltre.
And, if BRyan continues to play SS, we really don’t need a truly elite defensive 3B beside him. DeRosa is more than capable with the glove as well as providing a platoon RH bat in our LH heavy outfield.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on May 29, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to propose more outrage at
the continued nonsense that is the roster construction.
1) There are currently 8 relievers. Relief outings more than 2 innings:
Thompson – 1
Boyer – 0
Franklin – 0
McClellan – 0
Motte – 0
Reyes – 0
Miller – 0
Perez – 0
The Cardinals, as a team, have thrown the 6th FEWEST relief innings. If you listen to a broadcast, Dan and Al now routinely comment that relievers are being brought in because THEY NEED MORE WORK. It’s insanity and it’s gotten a free pass this season in the press. The BS about a longman at the beginning of the season obviously doesn’t apply. Worst case scenario: send down Thompson and release Charlie Manning from Memphis to make room. You don’t lose any player of value or use an option that hasn’t already been burned.
2) 5 middle infielders: Schumaker, Ryan, Barden, Thurston, Greene
Besides the fact that Greene has become a non-entity, there’s no reason to have this many slap hit guys on the club. The Cardinals really can’t find a better bat anywhere on the market? How much does it take to trade for an upgrade on the bench? Answer: Tony Gwynn, Jr. aka Shane Robinson. That’s it. The Cardinals can gripe about injuries or minor leaguers not performing but they’re cheating themselves on easy upgrades to the bench as well.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
AGREE
boyer just was a bad trade im still scratching my head on that, send him down or get rid of him, thompson should just be traded he really hasnt been spectacular. and as far as Green is it tyler or khalil your talking about
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"colonel sanders
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
At worst, he is a safety net.
At best, he could turn into a Wellemeyer-type guy over the next year or two. I see that potential in him. He has good stuff.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
You take flyers on guys who throw 95+
Barton wasn’t going to stick in StL.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on May 29, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I
understand the barton thing, i guess i just dont see the upside right now garnering last time i looked his ERA was still abouce 7
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His current performance doesn't show his "upside"
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boyerbl01.shtml
He has been all to hittable this season and even as “good” as he has been here he still has an ERA over 6 since the trade (it was over 40 before the trade, for a 10.80 season ERA). But since he came here he has a 7K/9 rate which is lower than his career rate of 8K/9 or his 2009 ATL rate of 13K/9. What has been his downfall this year is BBs, in ATL he had a 20BB/9 rate…think about that OVER 2 BBs and inning average. His K/BB rate is around 2 both here and for his career, he needs to get the walks down (currently at 3BB/9 which isn’t too bad) and avoid hard contact, he has 7 hits and only 1 HR since coming here so maybe he is turning things around. It also appears he has some lights out games and some horrid games. If he can harness his potential it is there, but that seems to be his biggest issue.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 29, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DAVE DUNCAN
usually preaches less strikeouts more groundballs which is why we need a defensive 3b
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right and Wrong
Duncan wants ground balls from non strikeout pitchers. Carpenter and to some extent Wainwright work by getting strikeouts because they have the stuff for it. Motte, Perez, etc. work that way too. Boyer as a reliever might be a strikeout pitcher or he may be a groundball pitcher, I don’t know for sure, but he still lives and dies by his command whether it is getting Ks or avoiding BBs. Duncan is much more of a ground ball guy with his starters though.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 29, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan is a pitch-count guy.
If Carp and Wainwright can strike guys out and keep their pitch counts down, then, great!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on May 29, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind the Boyer trade
but he should have replaced Thompson on the roster and not just been added to the mix.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it is probably
time to move a reliever down to AAA, and get another bench spot back. That said, the staff has only been throwing good for about 7-10 days. I have no problem with management waiting this out, and I also recognize that our staff, or parts of it, could bomb again, leaving the need for the extra reliever.
As for the 5 middle infielders…..you can’t look at it that way, b/c two of them are playing 3B. Are they naturally MI’s? Yes, but they aren’t playing that role on the current roster. And with Wallace not ready, Craig not a factor for whatever reason, Freese hurt, Mather hurt, and Glaus hurt, there are NO other options. So that is a big misleading, IMO.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Yes, I’d rather have Evan Longoria than Joe Thurston but these are (no pun intended) the cards we’re dealt. With a team that has two significant infield injuries, and a farm system with the future but not the present, you end up with Joe Thurstons and Brian Bardens.
And trading a 5th outfielder for an average middle reliever (Barton for Boyer)? Sounds like a reasonable risk to me.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The staff throwing well over the last 2 weeks probably distorts the total relief innings. It doesn’t distort the fact that TLR was NEVER using anyone as a long man even when things were bad. So the fault lies as much with the starters for not throwing enough innings during the bad stretch but also with LaRussa for not properly utilizing relievers in longer outings to get through those bad stretches. He needs to be more willing to let guys like McClellan, Boyer, Perez and Motte retire more than 1 or 2 batters.
You’re saying that there was not one single player on the trade market that would have been more helpful as a pinch hitter than having those 5 light hitting infielders on the bench? I’m calling baloney on that. The Cardinals have been willing to sacrifice the bench far too much this year between too many infielders and reactivating Ankiel too soon. It hurts the offense and it needs to be addressed.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why in the world.....
Would we have traded for somebody over the last couple of weeks, when we were waiting to find out on Glaus, waiting on Luddy to get healthy, waiting on the staff to do what it has done (allowing the extra pen guy to be sent down), etc?
You don’t make a trade the MINUTE something bad happens. The air is clearning, things are settling down, and it LOOKS like Mo is going to go find us somebody. But again, you can’t trade for a better bench guy, a guy that might not have a place on your roster in two weeks. Nobody is trading anybody yet anyways. Does it such that Rick and Luddy went down at the same time? Yes. Does it suck that at that same time, the rest of the team slumped? Yes. You cannot panic though. Mo played this the right way. This is where all that depth that some of you whine about comes into play. When guys go down with injuries, you don’t trade for someone, you bring guys like Stavi and Robinson up to fill the gap for a short time.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Az is not saying that we traded for a starting OFer or a starting 3Bman
What Az is saying is that we should have looked to add a PHer with pop to replace one of: Ryan/Thurston/Barden/T-Greene/Robinson/Stavinoha. Maybe even a wily veteran PHer…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
With a healthy roster, one of Duncan/Ankiel/Rasmus would be on the bench. Mather and/or Freese.
What “power hitting bench guy” was available, and made sense to add in the last couple of weeks?
Plus, I’d say guys like Barden and T. Greene both have plenty of pop off the bench. You aren’t going to find many 20+ HR types willing to ride pine.
We aren’t healthy and we have the 2nd best record in all of baseball. Let’s be patient, and be smart about this.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still agreeing
Getting Glaus back in August would have been ideal – there’s not much out there that is better on any level, and that’s before factoring in the cost of any trade or signing. And the outfield injury situation was unfortunate, but again – Memphis has a pretty solid stock of players. Not ML allstars yet, but certainly serviceable for a few weeks.
These next few weeks are when it gets interesting, I think. It seems pretty universally known that acquiring a league average to plus 3rd baseman will help this team a lot. And I’m still a bit intrigued over the whole stopgap vs. big name future idea on this. Probably easier to get the stopgap, and maybe better looking out on the next 5 years, but still something I think about.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we aren't healthy
Freese and Mather haven’t been healthy since Spring Training.
This isn’t a new development where we look around and go, “gosh Ankiel stubbed his toe”. We’ve lacked a decent RH bat off the bench since day 1. DeRosa certainly fits the bill. Adrian Beltre is available right now. Take your pick of guys on really bad teams.
And the line of thinking that Glaus was going to ride in and save the day is the same bullshit we get fed every year with injured players. When do we as fans finally wise up to the ploy. Players that have significant injuries on the Cardinals NEVER come back when expected. Mulder, Carpenter, Rolen, Ankiel, etc. It goes on and on and on. Glaus is merely the latest example in a long line of injuries that mysteriously don’t heal.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and if
Glaus does come back on, say Aug. 1, I’d expect him to OPS not much above .700 for the rest of the season.
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 29, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who is looking or expecting a 20-HR guy on the bench?
I don’t think anyone. I’d settle for an Eduardo Perez-type.
“C’mon, bgh, don’t bring me into this.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think J-Rod
But, those guys were kind of journeyman 40-man roster types. Hopefully, a few of the guys we have in the sub-25 years old crowd can become solid players. In all, if you’re league average at about all but 3 positions, and can be above league average at those, you have a shot, right?
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd argue that Barden
is as good a hitter as Perez. Slightly less power, maybe, but still.
I just don’t see that as a huge need. I think we need a righty starting OF/2B before a bench guy.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a Barden vs. LHP/Skip vs. RHP platoon would work just fine at 2B.
Or, if you like, Go-Go-Joe/Barden at 2B and add a new starter at 3B. I think that the Thurston/Barden combo at second would be worth about the same WAR as Skippy at second (when offense and defense are considered).
I guess I view the RHed power bat on the bench to be an OFer who can platoon with Duncan when the Cards face RHPers. I should have been more clear on that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I want Tyler Greene
back at SS, with Ryan at 2B. That is one fun-to-watch middle infield.
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 29, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I don’t think I have seen a MIF that I looked as forward to seeing since Renteria/Vina, not sure what makes those too so fun for me but it is something I enjoy. Then again I was always on the Ryan bandwagon when he was in the minors and I also hoped Greene would come out of Rasmus’ shadow and shine on his own.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 29, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes please. Greene and Ryan up the middle is solid.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only problem is who hits leadoff?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like skip,
but if it had to be these two playing every day, Ryan has shown greater patience and good OBP lately. (IMO)
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus.
Not Ryan under any circumstances.
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 29, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
During the month of May
Ryan has an OBP of .333 4 BB 2 K (30 PA)
Rasmus has an OBP of .262 3 BB 17K (82 PA)
Granted that’s a big difference in PA’s and Rasmus has a higher OPS, but Ryan looks to be shaping into a decent leadoff type guy.
(I realize this is a small sample size and understand the difference in projections, but I am not offended in anyway thus far with Ryan’s play)
Now he just needs to hang out with Jose Reyes during an off season and become even more EXCITING
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Ryan is shaping into a decent leadoff guy
At least, I’d rather have my leadoff guy have a higher OBP than .333. I will say that given his glove, and his rising OBP, he’s turning into a decent every day option.
I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain
by jd is legend on May 29, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but they are middle infielders with the bat
neither offer the pop that is looked for in a corner infielder/third baseman…so fo the point azru was making, yes, we do have 5 MI on our roster right now
it is something that can be corrected too…craig is starting to get hot in memphis….he plays a ok third base….and he’s a righty, which with this team of lefty reserves(sans barden) we could use the RH pop from a non MI
by VolsnCards5 on May 29, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh.....
But everybody wants to trade for Beltre who is slugging .317, or DeRosa who is barely slugging higher than Thurston and Barden?
This team has plenty of pop when it is healthy. AP. Luddy. Duncan/Ankiel. Greene/Barden have decent “power” numbers. Rasmus’ power has come around.
I want good players. I don’t care if they hit HR’s or not.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offense is very good when healthy...
…against right-handed pitching.
St. Louis Cardinals 2009 vs. LHP: .227/.321/.363/.684 (OPS bad enough to rank 14th in the NL vs. LHP)
DeRosa Career vs. LHP: .304/.373/.481/.855
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DEROSA!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree.....
But more than plugging DeRosa in at 3B, the bigger “fix” for that problem is to trade Skip for Duncan for a righthand hitting 2B or corner OF.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would say
duncan defensively getting better sometimes but is a true 1b and i dont see that position opening up anytime soon
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know where this thought is coming from
and He’s not RH, nor does he play 3B, but what would it take to get Dunn from the Nationals, and would he be worth it? His contract isn’t outrageous. His OBP and SLG are just what the team needs (no idea of his splits). Maybe a package with Dunn Light (Duncan)? I have no idea if he’s even on the block, but it’s washington, so who isn’t? I think I might like the idea of Pujols-Dunn in the 3-4.
anyone else mention this or think this? or am I just playing a video game in my head?
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes I think
our assumptions about Dunc and Skip are just so rosy that we assume we need those guys going forward. [I’m talking about the next 2-3 years, not the next 2-3 months.] To me, they are just young enough, just good enough, and just cheap enough to lull us into thinking it’s smart to keep them. But I don’t expect either of them to ever get better than they are right now. I wouldn’t be sad to see either go, as soon as Moz can get something decent for them.
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 29, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think skip will only help at 2B going forward
It’s like trading for a 2B, without trading for a 2B.
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else do we have that can lead off?
Colby is to entranced by hitting for power to try to hit for average and Ryan has not been consistent.
Yadi?
Tony doesn’t like to run in front of Pujols anyways. Yadi will never make it past 1B with his wheels unless he hits the gaps or leaves the yard.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think you have Rasmus pegged really wrong
Take a look at his Minor League numbers:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=rasmus001col
He has been over .340 OBP every season and over .360 for 3 out of the 4 seasons with a .366 career OBP. Sure he doesn’t “hit for average” but he takes his walks and still ends up on base, which is all you want from a leadoff hitter. He has a .305 OBP right now and is only hitting .232, if he can get his BA back up to around the .270 mark he normally sits at then he will have as good of an OBP as Schumaker does.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 29, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay. If Raz can dup his minor league success then I am all for him leading off but...
So far he is not doing that nor does it look like he will anytime soon(30k 12BB .305 OBP)
I am not knocking Raz because I love the kid and think he is uber talented but right now I am not seeing leadoff hitter.
Maybe we can get Ricky to come and teach him a thing or two heh?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Ricky anywhere near this team
Ricky can play, but I don’t want Ricky coaching. Ricky would probably convince Raz that Ricky should be in CF for the next couple of years. Raz doesn’t need Ricky.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LoL.
That would be a great short play.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ricky is just that kind of guy
Rickey told me so. By 7:30am this morning.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know it really is
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby
by stlwcards on May 29, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good info
thanks for the information about our relief innings thrown, azruavatar. That was really interesting. keep up the good work
by viktor on May 29, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The longman myth
This is what kills me. Ostensibly, WunderBrad is on the roster as a long reliever, yet he is never used in the longman role. It makes no sense, then, to have him on the 25-man roster when an extra bat could be on the bench. He and Blaine Boyer are redundant in that they won’t ever be tasked with pitching in a game that is not already decided for all intents and purposes. Both should not be in the bullpen. It makes no sense whatsoever.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's as much about protection as anything.....
Having a guy in the pen that can start if your starter gets injured in the 1st inning, can’t make a start the day of a game, or gets knocked out early.
That hasn’t happened, but if it does ONCE and you don’t have a guy like Thompson, your pen can be screwed up for awhile.
I agree that Boyer can probably fill that role, and I’m guessing one of the two gets sent down soon. No harm no foul.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Das WunderBrad is ostensibly TLR's "longman"
However, even when Lohse or Wellemeyer have been knocked out early in a game, he has not been used to fill the gap between the starter and the rest of the ’pen. If that is the reason you have him, then you should use him that way.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being a longman.....
Doesn’t mean coming into a game in the 4th inning, and finishing it. To me it doesn’t, at least.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It means coming in when a start gets knocked out early
Early, to me, is before the sixth inning. He then comes in to bridge that gap—whether it be two innings or four. So, when Wellemeyer leaves in the fourth vs. Pittsburgh, Thompson comes in to finish the fourth, pitch the fifth, and pitch the sixth. He could also come in during the first inning, if need be. I don’t think anyone would argue that a “long” appearance for a TLR reliever is more than three outs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you been watching the games lately?
I don’t know how many times lately I’ve seen a box score look something like this:
Wellemeyer 4.2
Thompson 0.2
Boyer 0.2
Motte 1.0
Miller 0.1
Perez 0.2
Franklin 1.0
only 1/3 joking
by stlfan on May 29, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
memphis is our protection.
if we need to run out our bullpen to cover for a poor start, then we have our bullpen take the hit. if they get exhausted, we do exactly what we when carp crashed and burned. we demote a couple of guys, and promote someone to absorb innings (walters or boggs) should they be needed the next day. when carp exited the game with pain in his side, we didn’t use a “long-man.” we used the whole bullpen.
and saying that being a long man doesn’t mean pitching the whole game is a bit pointless when azru has pointed out that there’s only been one game where any pitcher has pitched 2+ innings. whatever a long man means, it means more than two innings.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on May 29, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you keep Thompson around for that one time we get throttled?
And other than that let him sit in the bullpen and scratch his dick and tell fart jokes and kick puppies?
I’m sorry, but that’s a dumbfuck move and a dumbfuck of a way to waste a roster spot.
In those games, you’ve pretty much lost already. Tell Boyer to throw two+ innings, KMac to throw two and then mix and match the rest so you don’t wear someone out. You don’t waste a roster spot with a pitcher who doesn’t pitch, just waiting for that one time someone comes out in the first. They’ve spent a significant amount of time keeping an unnecessary component around, wasting a spot that could have gone to any semi-okay Memphis position player.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on May 29, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't what I said.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
about the 13 pitcher thing...
When we lost Carpenter during that long stretch of games with no off days it was simi-excusable. Our starters weren’t going deep. Boggs and Welly were giving us less than 5 innings.
But Carpenter is back, our starters have average 7.2 innings snice Jo-EL turned into supersinker groundballer strikeout no one. Can we drop a pitcher?
:glances around: And bring up T. Greeene?
by Evilfrog on May 29, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the team's roster construction
has been a disaster from day 1. I, for one, cannot keep track of who’s on the roster and who’s in Memphis. All I know is that we have about 43 relievers, most of whom we don’t need, and 119 middle infielders — most of whom are basically the same guy as all the others. It’s an absolutely horrid roster. Thompson should have never been on the roster and shouldn’t be there now. We probably don’t need 7 relievers. We certainly don’t need 8.
I can almost understand the necessity for having so many middle infielders considering that we’re platooning 2 at 3rd, although it’s still 1 too many, but I can’t understand the fact that they’ve never given Allen Craig a shot at 3rd. He pounded the ball in the spring, yet never got a shot, and now neither Barden nor Thurston have hit a loud foul in weeks and yet Craig still will get no consideration.
by chuckb on May 29, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to start a free Allen Craig movement
I don’t see how he couldn’t be valuable to us simply just against lefites either in the OF or 3B
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Freedom!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and if that doesn't work
we can all act out the mooning scene for the front office
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freedom! Wal-lace, Wal-lace, Wal-lace!!!
Oops. I mean… Cra-aig, Cra-aig, Cra-aig!!!
([Enter Scotch accent]:Ye canna’ be Brett Wallace. Brett Wallace’s thighs are fourteen cubits in diameter, and each one of ‘em weighs 95 stones! If he were here he’d crush the English Brewers with earthquakes created from running the bases and shuffling side ta side ta catch grounders.)
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I believe that's 'groonders', actually.
If you want to be really authentic, anyway.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on May 29, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FOLLOW ME! FOLLOW ME TO FREEDOM!
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on May 29, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Love Old Sportscenter commercials
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby
by stlwcards on May 29, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Barden hit a HR
vs the Cubs? I think I saw it in HD.
by Hardcore Legend on May 29, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I posed this question to Moz yesterday
before he scurried off the chat. Ok, so maybe he just had to go.
I think your programming, bot, was written by me.
by Hardcore Legend on May 29, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I've done my part.
I can only publish so many angry rants about the roster construction thinly disguised as analysis at a time, you know.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on May 29, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1) how did this not get a single rec from anybody else?
2) tony gwynn, jr? you’re being deeply unfair to poor shane.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on May 29, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DING, DING, DING
I’ve become increasingly frustrated with this roster limbo. Having so damn many pitchers forces bizarro moves like having Wagonmaker pinch hit or Wellemeyer go in to bunt, instead of just burning random bench player X. Has Brad Thompson pitched anytime recently? What is the point of having him? What does he do that Boyer couldn’t? I mean, I don’t think Boyer is a star or anything, but he’s certainly got better tools than Brad’s sinker-that-doesn’t-sink!
What on earth is the point of having Thurston AND Barden? Neither is particularly great or slated to be a future star for the BOB. Pick one!!!! They’re freaking utility IFers, probably the most replaceable position in all of baseball!!! I think Ryan is probably worth hanging on to b/c he’s a SS, but why were he and TYLER Greene on the roster together? Was TG the backup’s backup? It makes no sense to me.
The way this roster is constructed, I see two essentially redundant components. You could easily slash Thompson and Thurston (or Barden if you prefer, I just think that Barden is a hair better) and be no worse off. I don’t see how having Allen Craig as the placeholder at third is so horrible…I mean he may hit a double (horrors!!!) at some point!
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on May 29, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You really just don’t get it.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I think he absolutely does get it.
A little heavy on the exclamation points, but otherwise my thinking (and that of many others on this board).
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 29, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still on board here
Utility infielders are exactly that – utility infielders. In that the club was in a wait and see thing about Glaus, or any of the minor league 3b’s to see if they were ready to come up and contribute. They’re there to be adequate, and fill in until you either have your star or possible prospect ready. I think it is a testament to this team that its on top with its 40 man roster, not its starting lineup. Long season, injuries and slumps happen. But having the ability to call up a Nick Stavinoha or Tyler Greene, and not just leave us in tears is a pretty sweet luxury, and a sign of good things to come. Maybe a Freese or a Wallace develops into a +3b, but until then, let’s appreciate what we have.
Given recent news regarding Glaus, though, I think its time in the next couple of weeks to make a move at 3b for a mid-season fill-in.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
please enlighten us
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 29, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they just want to prove
that they can win the division with their hands tied behind their back?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
on a more serious note
the only way to defend (if we’re arguing) having so many pitchers in the bullpen is how lopsided the schedule is (we’ll be well over halfway done after the all star break, like last season).
I can’t think of any really good reasons for the infield glut (that somehow has no starting 3B or SS for that matter) is to sort of set up a team competition to see who gets to start, but it’s never that simple.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
that second section is missing a transition or something
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two points -
Perhaps we have “too many” relievers on the roster but our bullpen has been great this year. I read recently that our strand rate is awesome (unsustainably good, in fact). Let’s give credit where credit is due – the bullpen has been very good this year.
As far as the middle infielders, we’ve got a lot, and they’re all bleh, but what’s the option? We don’t have any corner infield/outfield bats worth a shit to take their place. Freese would be good but he’s injured. Ditto Mather. Maybe Craig but until the last few weeks he hadn’t hit for shit and isn’t on the 40-man. I’m all for a trade but for who? For what return?
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 29, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it will be crede
is anything more typical of the cardinals than picking up the poor-man’s version of the player they really want?
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on May 29, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how about Ank, Lud at 3rd?
what the heck? I bet Ank could do it.
by jdonels on May 29, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know this scares all of us, but
Pujols at 3rd, Dunc at 1st?
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or is Craig/Wallace at 3B more frightening?
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on May 29, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols Arm
is made out to be an accident waiting to happen and that he cannot handle the throws at 3B without significant risk to his arm. I watch him make relay throws, throws across the diamond and wonder if this is really true? Additionally, I am not so sure that the injury risk is not greater at 1B than at 3B. He has been ran over a couple if times.
His range is exceptional at 1B and he is very good there and you probably don’t want to mess that up, but moving him to 3B solves two problems – you solve your 3B problem and you get Duncan in a position where he will not be a defensive liability. It appears that Duncan is going to start somewhere – forget them trading him – so the best place for him is 1B.
by Warcard on May 29, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was against the TJ surgery a year or so ago
but am now wishing that would have happened. I’m guessing if he had got the elbow fixed they would have at least thought of it. Not sure it would have happened, but at least it could have been a conversation.
by birdo rojo on May 29, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His throws at 1B
don’t put near the amount of stress on his arm that throws from third base would. Imagine a ball deep in hole near the line where he’s gotta come up and gun it to first base — one throw like that could blow out his UCL and he’s gone for the next 12 months or so. Pujols is a GG caliber first baseman, so I don’t think that you mess with that.
There are good 3B out there and available, so we should look to make some type of deal soon or give Craig or Wallace a shot.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 29, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit man
that’s too logical! You gotta come up with something crazy to get management to change to current situation. Like finding Gary Bennett and converting him to 3B.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on May 29, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oquendo could just help Pujols with balls hit deep in the hole.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson
by davethebutcher on May 29, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so then he would coach 3rd for the other team too?
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
that way he could send their runners into easy outs at 3rd and home plate all the time!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on May 29, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can Skip play 3rd?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Move "Who" to third?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm against it, but
I read somewhere yesterday, maybe it was in the SI article about AP, that Albert volunteered to go to 3rd one time earlier when we had an injury there. Tony, wisely I think, told him thanks, but no.
by ArkansasTravs on May 29, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are both lefties
never seen a leftie at third
by ridgesee on May 29, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know right.
I know it has to do with the ability to set before throwing and throwing on the run when barehanding. But I think a good athletic lefthander would have some great range down the line.
by Evilfrog on May 29, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't Don Mattingly get some playing time at 3rd?
Unnatural, but it cold work.
/doesn’t think anybody on the Cards roster could make it work.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bet would be on Ankiel making the switch.
Maybe that would keep him from impaling himself on the OF wall.
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw it in little league.
if it works there, we can’t really put it past TLR to try it.
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like posting to the Nats board, btw
Almost makes me feel like a spy
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Beltre - Tyler Greene
Agree that Beltre is the best possibility at 3B – good defensively and might start hitting as he is a traditionally late starter.
Agree that K.Greene needs to go on DL and Tyler Greene needs to be recalled.
by Warcard on May 29, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i had a dream last nite that we had traded for beltre
i guess it was in my head because i read the SI.com article on trade right before i hit the hay, and the writer mentioned how beltre made a ton of sense for the cardinals
i also have this feeling in my soul(gut?) that beltre would be a better hitter for the birds on the bat…of course this is very similar to feeling i got when we traded for mulder…so it could just be indigestion from my SUPER OMLETTE
by VolsnCards5 on May 29, 2009 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had a dream that Dan Haren was a Cardinal
…with a 71/9 K/BB ratio and a WHIP of 0.90.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i like your dream better
but waking up from yours must have been a bitch
by VolsnCards5 on May 29, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Running through the Mark Mulder Era in my mind as the beginning of my day
It’s really awful. Just unbearable. Jocketty really jumped the shark on that one.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is not even 10 O Clock in the morning
And you have already ruined my day.
…. Than notices that Zambrano got suspended for 6 games
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also re-watch the video of his ejection and its aftermath
Him ejecting the umpire, throwing a ball into left field, slamming his glove in the dugout, and then taking a bat to the Gatorade dispenser is classic and will put a smile on your face.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THE BAD THING
its only one start right? MLB needs to step up the punishment for pitchers
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe
by gocards62 on May 29, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless, their intent was to make him miss a single start.
Hence the six-game length. I think punishing pitchers by starts or appearances would get tricky.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DEPENDS ON
if theyre a starter or relief, a 6 game ban to a relief pitcher is huge, a starter only 1 start, not enough for that tirade to be honest
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he still gets docked 6 game checks
which is a giant chunk of change for him, so it works out like it was intended to.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 29, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a fine on top of the lost wages
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All true and
in Zambrano’s case they also lose his bat off the bench for that span. Not a huge deal, but still.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on May 29, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine a Brad Thompson suspension.
It could take months for him to make six appearances…
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on May 29, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I had a dream during the offseason
that we somehow traded Troy Glaus for Jair Jurrjens. I guess Chipper Jones had a series of improbable accidents in my dream, like getting arrested for several hundred unsolved crimes in New York or falling into a bottomless pit of wonder, or thinking he was a chicken or something. Otherwise I don’t see how that trade would have ever happened. It still kicked ass though.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre redux
A couple of others positives on Beltre. He and Albert are big buddies. This would add to the Big Guys happiness quotient – always a good thing, but specially relevant as the Cards look to an extension. And, Beltre would signal to TLR and us fans, in a big way, that the front office is serious about improving the team.
by deweydell on May 29, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree about showing they want to improve the team
but not sure beltre would help with the AP extension…if we get beltre, we are not going to extend him(he’s a FA at the end of the year)…so not sure his friendship will help the AP extension…though, if you meant showing albert we are in it to win it will cause him to be more willing to extend, then yes, i agree
by VolsnCards5 on May 29, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THATS ONE THING
that scares me a ton Albert in a different uniform
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys do realize that Beltre is only has an OPS of .562
So if the plan is to make Khalil feel better about himself than I think this is a great plan.
He is unlucky but not that unlucky.
His PrOPS is .645 w/ Real OPS of .562 put him at -0.082 of unluckiness.
While K Greene has a PrOPS of .778 w/ Real OPS of .582 with the true test of bad luck at -0.196
I like Beltre’s glove too but I don’t think you guys have looked at his stats recently. Simply put he sucks. Don’t we have enough under achieving infielders. I think we have already got our quota for the year.
Did I mention he makes $12M this year?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As a team we are batting a .704 OPS at third.
Which is good for 20th in the league. Not good but I have seen worst.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Rockies fan too
I can attest to this.
by Redhawk on May 29, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Change of scenery argument
One could always hope that being on a contending team might bring back some life on the bat, e.g. Floppy last year. But I am sure there are plenty of counter-egs.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 29, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because 2 months of stats
outweights the 3 years before that? Over the rest of the season, ZiPS projects him to hit .253/.304/.424. That combined with his glove (and being right handed) would be a pretty sizable upgrade.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why can't it?
We’re not there watching Beltre play. Maybe he has lost a step, maybe his bat speed has decreased dramatically. Two months is a fairly good sample size for how the season is going for him. Did ZiPS plan for Ortiz to age dramatically in the off season? The two months seem to be enough for the Red Sox to sit him and outweight his last 5 years.
My point just being that unless the scouts and coaches watching Beltre are saying he’d swinging the bat well and is comfortable/healthy just not having success yet, then sure. Otherwise I don’t think it’s wrong to ignore two months of with a .562 ops.
by paposse on May 29, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wording failure.
I meant to say at the end, I don’t think it’s wrong to be scared/turned off by two months…
by paposse on May 29, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flim cited a statistical argument not a scouting one
I responded with a statistical one. I’m not a scout so I can’t speak to the rest but it’s just not that common for players at Beltre’s age & position to just lose it.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
even in the day and age
of PED use and subsequent testing.
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sure is common for second
baseman of his vintage to suddenly lose it, why not a 3B?
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 29, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
I’ve said it before, but Thurston profiles as a league average player. Beltre is probably a 3 WAR player. In the ammount of plate appearances that he would be replacing Thurston, he would be less than a full win upgrade.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 29, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think I asked this in the other thread when you said that
not sure if you answered as I can’t remember which thread it was (3B one I think) and it’s fallen off the board on the right. What rationale are you using to get Thurston as league average (“profiles”?). I think I’m probably under-rating him (I said in the thread I thought he was replacement level, which I think is probably doing him a disservice) but I think there’s significant doubt that he’s as good as average as a 3B going forward.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre has always been about an average hitter
He’ll do what he is statistically likely to do eventually.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on May 29, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody ever does what they're statistically likely to do
/econometrics’ed
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to point out
Beltre’s lifetime stats on the road. So not playing in two of the biggest pitchers parks
.287 /.338 /.492
by Harknights on May 29, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: I am dreading moving
I am in the process of moving and having a fire sale to get rid of stuff before I move. I just sold my bar that weighs like 600lbs. I really hope the people I sold it to are actually bring a couple people over. I am a little afraid honestly.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
moving sucks
Heading to a new city, or just changing bedrooms?
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfournately my new place will not be finished till the end of the summer
So I must do the unthinkable and move back in with my parents. It will be a sad day in my life even if it is only temporary
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does have its perks
Free room and board, free food, swimming pool, and cable. None of these things I currently have
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, if your mom is like mine
Homemade baked goods.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Step Mom is the best baker I have ever met
Sadly though I am in the process of dieting for my upcoming trip.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
food
never forget the food factor. I just talked to my dad this morning, whose parents are getting up in years and moved back in with him. He was telling me that grandpa was only going to get raisin bran for breakfast this morning, no waffles and bacon. You know what I had for breakfast this morning? A bottle of vitamin water.
Take advantage of the food.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear that
I have been living off dried oatmeal, can’s of beans, and protein shakes for awhile now
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my girlfriend and I at the time spent a couple of extra days home for Thanksgiving
Just due to the food. Kept joking all weekend that we weren’t leaving until we got more biscuits, and more stuffing. I’m sure dad thought we were fooling around or something when he heard the middle of the night noises coming from downstairs. We were raiding the fridge for leftovers. In retrospect, the leftovers really were better than fooling around with the ex.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
That’s cold. I mean, that’s like really, really cold. Damn. I’m actually feeling a little bad for the poor lass now.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on May 29, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not.
He said ‘ex.’
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
by spants on May 29, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nonetheless.
He just said that cold creamed cauliflower was more enjoyable than an intimate moment with a member of the opposite sex. That’s an insult to any human being, ex or no.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on May 29, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You obviously don't know this girl
19 drunken crazy texts from her the other night. 19. We hadn’t spoken in weeks.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
woh
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
double woh
that’s still better than anything i’ve had in years. how pathetic is that? really pathetic.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on May 29, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember, its as awkward for them as it is for you
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
That made me LOL. I am just happy I get along with them well and they have a big house. We work completely different shifts so I probably won’t even see them except on the weekends.
It is just explaining to girls that I live with my parents.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
revel in the geekiness of it for a bit
Find that niche market.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nineteen year olds?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just find college girls at home for the summer
And pretend that you are doing the same thing until your new lease starts.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 29, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Set up a schweeet computer in the basement
and blog your way to fame. You can save time by not actually watching baseball games.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
basement computer are overrated
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
by gdm426 on May 29, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t wait for some kind of resolution, however preliminary it may be, because at this point Khalil Greene’s presence on the roster is impossible to analyze. Either the anxiety problems don’t weigh on his performance, and have been extrapolated too readily from unclear wording in newspaper articles, or he’s just not ready to play; even if it’s something in between his presence on the roster doesn’t make much sense until we know what the Cardinals know.
If nothing else, I hope that tomorrow, or in the next few days, we move from this state of total uncertainty. Pragmatically it’s important because the Cardinals have hamstrung their bench already, with a sore outfielder and a long reliever. But really I just want to know that Khalil and the Cardinals have a plan to deal with a problem that’s most frightening in its vagueness.
The only “resolution” will be that KG will go on the DL or not. The Cards are legally precluded by HIPAA and other laws (and potentially the labor agreement) from letting us know what they know, including their plan (or KG’s plan) to deal with his medical condition. The situation is “vague” because it’s mandated that it be so.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 29, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good News of the Day
The Cardinals have a 64.70669% chance of making the Playoff’s while the Cub’s only have a 13.26164% chance
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on May 29, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would feel better about those numbers
if was late July or August….. but it still is nice to see.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 29, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
65% now and 65% in August
is the same likeliness of making the playoffs, so you shouldn’t care.
by TheBirds on May 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure ya should...
a lot more time to gain more or lose more…
by stlfan on May 29, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the baseball prospectus thingie?
I thought it was interesting how great a difference there was when I clicked the “adjust for PECOTA” link. Not sure how that all works, but it’s cool to see.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what the probability for the Cubs was at this time last year....
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know Dan it is like making a trade for a Cy Young winner without giving anything up
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 29, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
preferences at 3rd:
1. Glaus miraculous recovery
2. Allen Craig… wtf happened to our depth at 3B?
3. Derosa!
4. Beltre?
5. Crede
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what did happen to our young depth at 3rd?
Again, just more evidence that you can’t have enough players.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace – not ready yet (bad defense to boot, not gonna work well with this team right now)
Mather – wrist injuries are BAD!
Craig – they seem to think he can’t play 3rd
Freese – another FREAKIN INJURY!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not try Craig. He played 3B up until this year right?
How bad could he be?
He couldn’t be worse than Thruston could he?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I'm sayin
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is the logic of this ballclub to convert 3B to OFers and convert 2B to 3B
then to complete the circle, convert outfielders to 2B.
by TheBirds on May 29, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused...what happens to the converted 2B do the go back to 3B or then to CA and then Relief Pitching?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take two
I’m confused…what happens to the converted 2B do they then go back to 3B or to CA and then Relief Pitching?
"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly
by Red Blazer on May 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently Freese thinks
that since he was traded for Jim Edmonds, he had to “stay healthy” like Jim Edmonds.
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 29, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish some of our players could visit Ted Williamsburg soon.
Maybe next time we play in Philly? Can’t be that bad a drive. And it’s historic! I would even say patriotic.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 29, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IS IT BAD?
that someone at my work building has a chicago cubs license plate cover on the fron and i wrote in sharpie FUCK THE “chicago cubs”?
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
damn
cubs fans here in KC are arrogant, and just that fans in generel here have ripped off some of the letters i had on my back window that said,“got cardinals” it now looks like “go cdls”
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on May 29, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Living in KC
So has living in Kansas City made you realize how much Kansas Citians cling to ’85 and how much they still hate everything St. Louis?
by stlfan on May 29, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a Cubs thing to do, not a Cards thing
so if you want to be more like a Cubs fan and give the rest of us a bad name, then go ahead, otherwise yes it was bad.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on May 29, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree
it wasn’t a cubs thing or a cards thing. it was a jerk thing. there are many on both sides.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on May 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be pissed if somebody sharpie'd
my cards stuff in the office. Messing with in a way that doesn’t destroy is fine, but anything involving a sharpie, unless it’s a drunk friend who passed out in a common area, is no fun.
by STLRegalia on May 29, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so you're asking if vandalism is bad?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"