Geography and Fan Support
by kindred on May 28, 2009 5:24 PM EDT
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The above map shows the geographical distribution of fan support for MLB teams. I thought it was interesting when I saw it and thought I would share. A quick note: gray areas are those in which there were not enough respondents to give them a color. Some of that may be because those areas are sparsely populated. So I think it's safe to color in places like Southern Missouri and Northern Arkansas as Cardinal country, even though the areas on this map are gray. In the Mountain West (outside of the Denver region) such extrapolation may be more difficult, and in fact baseball may simply not as much reach in those places.
A few thoughts: look at the base of support for the Braves. Considering that they are a relatively new team (moved to Atlanta in 1966), the coverage is impressive. But much of it may have come at the expense of the Cardinals. Until the Braves moved to Atlanta, the Cardinals were the southern-most team in MLB. Not too long before that, they were also the western-most team. That, combined with the reach of KMOX, created many Cardinal fans in the South and West. My father, for example, grew up a Cardinals fan in Raleigh, NC because he could listen to the games every night (having Musial and Red and then Gibson and Brock on those teams could't've hurt either). Granted, the plural of "anecdote" isn't "data," but I get the impression that my father's experience was not rare.
However, as more teams moved South and West, and as expansion put teams in places like Kansas City and Houston, a large part of the Cardinals fanbase was cut out. This process largely occurred in the 1960s and 1970s, but it may have had the greatest effect on the children of the 1980s. By then, the teams that had moved in the 1960s and '70s had largely settled, and the "KMOX effect" that had been so prevalent earlier in the century gave way to the "Superstation effect" by which children in the South could watch and follow the Braves on TBS (and those in the Northern Midwest could follow the Cubs on WGN). The parents may have remained Cardinals fans (or not), but their children would be drawn to the Braves, or the Royals, or the Astros, or the Cubs. Further expansion into Florida and Colorado regionalized fan bases even further.
The Cardinals still have a very large geographical population; at a glance, it even appears to be larger than the Cubs' footprint. It has long been a point of pride for the franchise that the team unified a "Cardinal Nation" that stretched all across the United States. But the territorial reach of that Nation is nothing like it used to be. This may be to the detriment of the team, as the opportunities for marketing and merchandising have grown steadily over time, just as the regional reach of the club has shrunk. But it's certainly been good for MLB overall, since greater regional engagement with fanbases have raised the profile of the sport in the South and West, which are now some of the richest regions of the country.
Anyway, I just thought the map was interesting. I have long been interested in what I call the "Sociology of Baseball" and how it has changed and reflected national trends over time.
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I love this type of thing.
"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter
Hate to rain on your parade, guys
but I’m pretty sure that’s RedSox green.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions
They could be talking about the one by the "n' in "Houston"
Why they had to use 4 barely distinguishable shades of green on this map is a different question entirely.
Something near and dear to my heart as well
I’m a nut for geography (or any macro-cultural aspect) and baseball. I also think KMOX’s influence and benefit to the Cards over the years doesn’t get enough talk. Thanks for posting something on the topic.
"Every epoch dreams its successor" - Jules Michelet
by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 28, 2009 7:58 PM EDT reply actions
for those interested in spreading the Cardinal fanbase
follow the link and go through the 5 steps – it takes about 2 minutes total.
I tried but
the stupid thing keeps telling me O’Fallon, IL doesn’t exist. (And yes I tried O Fallon, OFallon, Ofallon, etc.)
Can not undervalue the effect of TBS
When I lived in Clovis NM for the early part of the 90s the only games I got to watch were Braves games. Most of the kids I went to school with were Braves fan. Though, that Map haves them as Ranger fans. Stuff changes after 15 years I guess.
Yeah, even growing up here in St. Louis, the Braves were my second favorite team
Thanks to TBS, I watched a bunch of Braves games in the early 1990’s.
The combination of some relatively lousy Cardinals teams and the ability to watch the Braves certainly caused me to root for the Braves come postseason time (until 1996, anyway).
Salt Lake City
is a rainbow.
I grew up in Oklahoma. Would have been hard pressed to pick one team growing up, though I leaned to either the Cardinals or the Rangers…more to the Cardinals and Jack Buck. There was an AM station in Ponca City that carried the Cardinals, and were proud to claim “since 1929” (or something like that) in their ads.
Anyone see that purple dot
in south central Illinois? It’s relatively even north-south-wise to the “point” of the Mississippi River Bend. It’s close to where I live but not THAT close . . . it’s somewhere around Vandalia, I think.
Well, at least they’re supporting the White Sox and not the Brewers or Cubs, I guess. But I just find that . . . odd. I dunno.
"The world is getting to be such a dangerous place, a man is lucky to get out of it alive." -- W.C. Fields
internet surveys are imprecise...
… but that IS odd. i’ve spent a lot of time in that general region. in fact, i have to drive through Vidalia when i drive from my former home to get to Busch. that’s Cardinal country, for sure.
I like how a branch of our territory pushes almost up to the White Sox turf
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
That line separating orange and green in Illinois
runs right through where I grew up. It’s hell out on the front lines.
Another downstater
This George Will quote describes growing up near the orange/green line and the consequences of choosing orange:
I grew up in Champaign, Illinois, midway between Chicago and St. Louis. At an age too tender for life-shaping decisions, I made one. While all my friends were becoming Cardinals fans, I became a Cub fan. My friends, happily rooting for Stan Musial, Red Schoendienst, and other great Redbirds, grew up cheerfully convinced that the world is a benign place, so of course, they became liberals. Rooting for the Cubs in the late 1940s and early 1950s, I became gloomy, pessimistic, morose, dyspeptic and conservative.
(from a speech at Washington U in 1998)
www.mpgillusion.com
I knew there was a reason I didn't like George Will
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah that makes no sense at all
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Sure it makes sense
It’s supposed to be a fun way of poking fun at liberals and calling them naive. After all, if you were a Cardinals fan during those years then all was right in the world. That said, George Will is kind of an old fogey. He recently wrote a column that, among other things, complained about people who play videogames and wear blue jeans. So he’s not for everyone.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
This is pretty cool
I love stuff like this. One thing that makes me wanna puke though is the Red Sox shade of green in Nebraska! What a bandwagon full of crap!
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
Former minor league affiliates
I’ve been squinting to see if there are any hints of Cardinal green in Louisville, Columbus, or Houston where there were long time Cardinal minor league teams. Can’t see much. Here’s the full list.
David Halberstam’s book on the 1964 Cardinals (and Yankees) does a great job describing how KMOX helped build the broad West & South fan base.
And I can attest to meeting some North Carolina Cardinals fans who grew up on KMOX and had never been to St. Louis.
Just like with electoral maps, you have to avoid equating the size of the color with the number of people. That said, I’m still surprised by the thin Yankee sliver, the thinner Mets sliver, and the large Red Sox swath…..
www.mpgillusion.com
squint no more
1) Reporting from the ground in Louisville, not alot of Cardinal support in Derby City – except for Pitino’s Cardinals. Minor league attendance record set here when Louisville was long-time Card AAA affiliate and the baseball stadium houses awesome photos from the 80s minor leaguers – Herr, Pendleton, et al. But with Cards gone to Memphis and Reds taking over here, Louisville has returned mostly to their roots – the Reds – only 87 miles from Great American BallPark.
2) KMOX certainly was the primary reason for Cardinal fan dominance but another huge factor was the Brewery which had huge marketing campaigns selling the twin towers – Budweiser and the Redbirds. The Brewery loaded up every tavern in the middle of America with promo items like schedule calendars, pennants and other freebies. My grandpa’s tavern in So Illinois was like a Cardinal museum.
3) We Kentucky folks are not crazy about anything Duke – even if you are a professor and spent time in Michigan and Chicago. But we give you a pass because of your love for Cardinals. In far western Kentucky (solidly represented on map) children are often baptized in the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, The Wildcats and the Redbirds. Just kidding – but barely. Only the Cardinals could unite Dookies and Wildcats.
shades of blue
aha! – now we are all represented – devil blue (ncgostl), sky blue (kindred) and big blue (hinkster) – this wildcat could not resist jabbing ncgostl after reading his duke profile – and now I get to jab kindred for being a dreaded tar heel – but anyway, back to baseball…..nice post kindred, good comment ncgostl and we can all thank God we are not cubbie blue
it's not sky blue...
… it’s carolina blue. we had it first, then god saw it and liked it enough to cover the world in it. ;)
thanks for the props.
Gotta love it when you run across a 'Heels fan, huh?
I went to the Tourney game against LSU this year…most fun I’ve ever had. Then again, I’ve not been to a Cards game yet…
One (brief) nod to Carolina.....
Even though I’m a Duke guy (who lives in Chapel Hill, btw), I was definitely a Tyler Hansbrough fan—partly the Missouri connection, and partly the fact that he stuck around to try to win another championship rather than go pro. I respect that. He’s a class act.
And, as Hinkster said, thank God we are not cubbie blue….
www.mpgillusion.com
Way underrepresenting southern and southeastern Iowa
A ton of Cards fans down there. And, frankly, I’m surprised that Des Moines, despite having the I-Cubs, is so Cubs-heavy. It’s undoubtedly a majority Cubs town, but I figured there’d be larger pockets of other clubs’ fans: Cards, White Sox, Twins, Royals, and Brewers.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
cheating
Since I’m in North Carolina for the summer, I’m gonna use my address here to take the survey, see if I can have an effect on the map!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Ozzie Smith rookie card pic gets a vote from me
Even if it is in the yellow and brown.
by Expatcardfan on May 29, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm
not as many cardinals fans in the Quad Cities as I would have thought.
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
interesting
growing up the quad cities made me a Cards fan even when I moved other places. Seems everyone was either a Cards or Cubs fan.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 31, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
very few other teams, maybe a few white sox fans but not many
4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 1, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i tired to get a green spot in ohio
but i think they just lumped me in with the tribe fans
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
This isn't accurate
The Marlins look like the dominate fandom in Florida, when it is common knowledge that the most popular team in Florida is the Yankees. As a New Englander, I know that Connecticut is weighted in favor of the Yankees over the Red Sox. This map just shows that more Red Sox fans fill out silly internet surveys than Yankee fans.
If you have a problem with something on the map, it’s probably misleading.
That has to be taken into account when viewing. And are there really so few Mets fans?
Still some really cool stuff though.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
wow i can see my house from here
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
I think my favorite is what is going on in, what is that, Salt Lake City?
I would like to see this population weighted, with voter turnout, etc. But I’m not willing to spend enough time at claritas.com or the bls.gov or whatever website you’d have to use.
Check out this map
This map lets you choose an area and then see the statistical breakdown—so you can see what is going on in Salt Lake City and how many votes it is based on.
<a href=" http://www.commoncensus.org/sports_hotspot.php?sport=2" >
www.mpgillusion.com
I think the most interesting thing is to see the difference between the sports
Cards – big geography
Rams – tiny geography
Another interesting one to compare is Rangers versus Cowboys in Dallas.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 31, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions
Lots of great stuff here
Salt Lake City stands out as probably the weirdest city, but Vegas and whatever New Mexico city that is (Santa Fe? Albuquerque?) are also interesting semi-regional cases.
As I said above, I love how we get so close to the Chicago area. Could be some weird sampling issues, but it’s still cool.
Mets fans? What Mets fans?
I like the Jackson Pollock-esque splatters of random colors across certain regions. The upper part of the Braves nation has the best one, there’s also a neat one in Marlins territory.
What is up with all the Cubs fans in Louisiana? Is there a minor league team I don’t know about?
Lastly, I really like how the Dodgers/Angels/Padres territories are relatively orderly whereas the Giants/A’s area is a lot more wonky.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
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