The Hot (Stove) Corner

My first question is why Wallace and not Craig?

Craig is already at AAA and hitting well, correct? This way you do what’s good now and maybe what’s good for a few years down the road (not starting the Wallace clock yet).

by sdrone on May 28, 2009 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The organization giving up on Craig-as-3Bman is mind-boggling to me

However, their mindset toward A.C. has been made crystal clear in the wake of the Freese and Mather injuries. They didn’t even start Craig at third once; rather, they called up Wallace. Look, no one is as anxious for the Wallace Era to begin as me, but, right now, in 2009, shouldn’t A.C. be getting reps at third in the PCL with an eye toward a June call-up just to take an inventory of what we have in him during a time of great need?

[Mozeliak, Lunhow, and TLR all sneer and in unison exlcaim, “No!”, shutting up our young VEB poster.]

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree 100%

Craig should’ve been the corner infield/outfield utility man who SHOULD’VE been in StL from the start of the season, instead of having a clusterfuck of middle-infield mediocrities for TLR to tinker with…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 28, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

I don’t understand it

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Craig is not hitting that well

not enough to really warrant a call up

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the season as a whole, no he isn't hitting

But, the last week or so he has been white hot: 3 HR and 12-for-30 (.400 BA). Most of his starts have been at first, but why not call him up and see what he can do? I think his defense has been unfairly characterized as bad and he merits at least consideration from the organization as a stopgap at the hot corner. The point is moot, though, as I pointed out above, it is clear that the organization does not include Craig in its third base plans.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roster management is one reason

The 40 man roster is already going to be an issue next year. Have to play things smart the rest of the season.

Not to mention, we have enough rooks in the lineup and on the roster. This team really probably needs to add a vet to the mix at 3B, not ANOTHER young guy.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention, we have enough rooks in the lineup and on the roster. This team really probably needs to add a vet to the mix at 3B, not ANOTHER young guy.

We’ve got plenty of veterans. The Rays did OK this year with a bunch of young players. I can’t see the reason for the fixation on “experience”. I’d rather just have “good”.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 28, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well.....

If you don’t see the reason, there is no need for me to explain it to you. It matters though, and not just in baseball. Doc Rivers complained all year about losing P.J. Brown, Posey, and Cassell, and replacing them with young guys.

Can you win with a young roster? Sure. But at some point, it behooves you to have some experience on the roster. Even our “vets” have relatively limited ML experience.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Proven Veterans

I suppose those would be K-Greene, Pujols, Yadi, Pineiro, Lohse, and Franklin?

Last year, I suppose it would have been (in addition to those listed above): Kennedy, Izturis, Isringhausen, Villone, and Springer?

I prefer to think of players as good or bad rather than veterans or young, I think.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I might include.....

Ankiel and Luddy. Playing experience-wise, not so much, but they’ve been around the game. LaRue. I’m not saying it has to be Old Man River, but if you take two equally talented players, give me the one with a little bit of ML experience over one that is making is debut. TLR can work around having a couple of rooks in the lineup, but if you add another one, dang…..can’t really hide them at that point.

Craig is not a better hitter than Rasmus, and we see how his season is going. Why bring up another rookie that probably isn’t going to hitany better than Thurston/Barden, and certainly isn’t the fielder they are? We just going to keep running rookie 3B out there until we run out of options? Freese, Barden, Thurston, Ryan, T. Greene…..Craig, Wallace? When does it stop? Who is playing 3B for QC’s?

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

equally talented players

thats not what is being discussed in this conversation is it? whats being discussed is having a younger player that is potentially better and keeping the vet around because of nothing other than the fact he is a veteran.

by UNCDubya on May 28, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.....

What is being discussed is should be look to yet ANOTHER rookie to help fix our lineup problems, or should we look at obtaining a vet.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again

I’d rather just have the best player. Right now (or, indeed, earlier in the year) I feel we could’ve done better having an actual third baseman (and good RH hitter) on the team, like Craig, instead of playing middle infielders at third base.

I agree with you that the best solution to our third base issues is external (either DeRosa or Beltre, maybe Atkins) and we should go out and make a trade, but that’s no excuse for not playing the best available option at third base until that trade is made (there might be internal factors that we’re not party to which means those trades are not possible or advisable – such as the teams in question asking for too much in return).

I can’t see how having 5 (or at times SIX) middle infielders on the roster this year can be a good thing, when there’s a corner infield/outfield guy in the minors who’s got a better bat than any of them, who is a right-handed hitter (something we’ve BADLY missed all year, and especially since ludwick went down). That’s just terrible roster construction.

I don’t think basketball is a good example as a comparison to baseball. One is a team sport, one is pretty much an individual sport. I don’t really see how it’s relevant whether a guy is a veteran or a younger player, to me it’s all about how GOOD they are, and saying

If you don’t see the reason, there is no need for me to explain it to you

is totally nonsensical. We have plenty of older players on our team. I don’t see why we should particularly hamstring ourselves in a search for any sort of talent by restricting it to apparently arbitrary things like age and MLB service time. I’d rather have DeRosa, Beltre or Atkins, not because they’re veterans, but because they’re likely better players than any of our internal options at this point. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be trying Craig (a rookie) instead of Thurston or Barden (another two rookies/guys with minimal MLB service time), though.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 5:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like a mix

I think a mixture of vets and young ‘ems is preferable for stability. IMHO, for every Rays, there are a bunch a other examples of young talented teams that fizzled after a few months of promising play. I think some examples are probably Minnesota for a while (although they finally broke through), Milwaukee (same as MN), KC and one year w/Pena managing. As was reported in the PD (sorry can’t find the link right now), Cards used 10 rookies in the first 29 games more than any other team, and rookies have taken 249/999 of the at-bats as of May 10.
Of course, I am not pining for bad veteran influences such as Milton Bradley or Tiny Z. Small Bears seem to get a disproportional number of head cases, e.g. LeTroy “umpire conspiracy theory” Hawkings, anyone? But I think vets who take smart at bats would be great.
BTW, I am so glad Stavinoha is doing so well. I totally trashed him for his poor at bats last year, but it seems like he has really developed some good plate discipline. He reminds me of Skip who took a while to start getting good at bats.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on May 28, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He hit 2 homeruns yesterday

Just sayin’.

by cloistermaximus on May 28, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he did well in ST

so if we had made him the 3B from the start…

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say Wallace

is as ready as Craig is and has a higher ceiling. I, too, would have liked to have seen Craig get more of a chance entering the season but Wallace has caught up.

by chuckb on May 28, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Higher ceiling

and a higher floor.

The Personal Finance Playbook.

by Toddius on May 28, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"higher floor"

anyone else see the irony in this?

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on May 28, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. But I undestand and that's what counts right?

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

economics term

see minimum wage

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm so sick of the STL media making Luhnow out to be the bad guy

From Bernie’s article explaining why they won’t make a move, “Vice president of player development Jeff Luhnow will object to any deal that requires the bartering of his precious Faberge Eggs, which is the name I’ve given to the Cardinals’ long list of breathlessly hyped prospects.”

Really? What is this based on? Has Luhnow said he doesn’t want any prospects traded? Did he block the trade of Barton?

It is so silly. Because the guy has worked on developing a farm system full of prospects, now he is so in love with them that he won’t allow any of them to be traded. I highly doubt that Luhnow is so narrow-minded.

And what is wrong with him hyping the minor league prospects anyway? Bernie remarks about how amazing the team’s performance has been. How many rookies have been playing? Shouldn’t at least some of that credit go to Luhnow?

by OCCardsFan on May 28, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bernie's piece was unfair, in my opinion

He basically paints Lunhow as a (Faberge) egg head, sitting in a dark room, petting affiliate baseball cards from promotional days, and murmuring about his “pretties.” It is unfair and ridiculous. We dealt two relievers for K-Greene, a move that now looks awful. Notice how Bernie excludes this but blames Mo for bringing K-Greene into the fold.

I’m also getting sick and tired of the revisionist historian that Bernie has become. Just who, exactly, could the Cards have brought in last season that would have made them a playoff contender? The asking prices from clubs for relievers were astronomical, as evidenced by the fact that no team made a deal for a reliever that was supposedly on the block. “Depending on the deal” or “for the right player” are a common refrain in the VEB Community, and rightly so. Should we have given up three prospects (one of whom being Jason Motte) for two months of Ohman? No, we should not have and I don’t think Mo or Lunhow should be faulted for making the right decision in the face of absurd demands at the trade deadling last season.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh...

The Khalil trade is kind of a wash right now in terms of talent. One of the relievers that we sent got hurt and other one hasn’t been any better than the 5 other guys who were ahead of him on the totem pole of RH relievers in the Cardinal system. In terms of the $$$ spent, it’s been a bad deal to this point in the season, no question, but it’s not like we had a lot of options to improve the middle infield this offseason. Nobody saw the Jason Bartlett offensive explosion coming, Jack Wilson hasn’t been very good, and nobody realistically wanted to start the season with Ryan or Greene at the SS position. Hopefully Khalil can get out of his head and figure some things out down the stretch of the season, otherwise he’s looking at taking a minor league deal this offseason. That should be enough motivation to get him cracking away.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was in favor of the K-Greene deal when it was made

I think it was a classic buy low situation where we gave up players without too much value for someone whose upside seemed to me to be pretty high. After Spring Training, I was certain it was the right decision. The regular season has been a different story entirely, but I’m not going to beat up the organization for making the deal, which I was cautiously optimistic about at the time it was made. That said, I have to wonder why the Cards don’t include a mental evaluation with their physical. I also wonder how many teams do. (All of this is predicated on my assumption that the CBA is silent on the subject.)

I merely bring up this trade as evidence that Lunhow is open to dealing prospects—two for K-Greene—and to point out how Bernie conveniently leaves this out of a column on the subject in which he unfairly (in my mind) paints a caricature of Lunhow.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you have faith in their phsyical evaluations too?

This is why the K Greene situation worries me. They can’t manage Ankiel in the baseball equivalent of a fender bender…

Throw in a few million dollars to upgrade the medical corps, maybe we could have accurate physical evaluations before we acquire players, and the means to keep them healthy while we have them.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not to mention

putting a guy on the DL unnecessarily a la Ludwick. that blunder seems to be getting no press at all.

by Walking Underwear on May 28, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

First for everything

Normally, they keep a guy languishing forever, then put him on the DL. The one time they are quick about a DL move, they could have waited and had him back earlier this week. But with such a shorthanded bench, they didn’t have the option.

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on May 28, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You asked some good questions today

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is still too early to evaluate the trade

But Gregerson is pitching for the MLB team jumping straight from AA. He probably wouldn’t be in our bullpen right now, but it seems that he has some value — likely more value longterm to the Padres than Greene will provide this year to the Cards.

by OCCardsFan on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course that's true

~~likely more value longterm to the Padres than Greene will provide this year to the Cards.~~

But the fact is that Gregerson probably provides more longterm value to the Padres than he would to the Cardinals too, who have Perez, Todd, Motte, Reifer, Salas, Samuel — shit, how many right handed relievers do you need? We left Perdomo unprotected for the same reasons.

Gregerson may provide more long term value to the Pads, but if he wasn’t going to provide much value to the Cardinals, he’s not much to give up for a guy who looked primed for a nice comeback season after the spring. It’s too bad it hasn’t turned out that way, but I don’t see Gregerson becoming a top set up man or a shut down closer or even being better than our other minor league options over the long haul.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm...

Luke Gregerson has an FIP of 2.89 and has been worth 0.5 WAR. Greene right now is sitting at minus 0.4 WAR. Gregerson is younger, cheaper, and is under the team’s control for this year + 5. We didn’t know all this at the time but, as of right now, it’s hard for me to see that the trade has been a wash. So far, they’ve clearly come out ahead.

by chuckb on May 28, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm...

Is Gregerson doing that with the Cardinals if they don’t make the trade? No, he’s not, he’s doing it in Springfield or Memphis, taking up relief appearances from guys like Todd and Samuel, who the organization clearly believes are better pitchers. We have tons of right handed relievers, we didn’t know how good Gregerson was at the time, and we were willing to roll the dice on Khalil Greene to see if he could make an improvement.

It’s MAY!!! What if Greene comes out and hits like 2007 Khalil from the ASB on, and Gregerson regresses to a 4.50 FIP the rest of the way? Stranger things have happened…

I’m ok with trading a commodity from our system (RH reliever) for a chance at a better than league average SS. At this point I don’t think you can call either team a winner — so it’s a wash.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again

I didn’t say the trade shouldn’t be made or that things might get better from our standpoint or worse from theirs. If you’d like to say that it’s too soon to evaluate the trade, I’m ok w/ that although most Cards’ fans declared it a solid victory for us before it was announced. To me, though, it’s tough to argue that, as of May 28, the Padres aren’t better off than we are as a result.

by chuckb on May 28, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you chuck...

I still think the trade was a VERY worthwhile gamble that made sense for both teams. Right now it’s the Pads are the clear winners (in money and in talent), and I don’t see that changing…not that it can’t.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think there's a disagreement, per se

I believe all of us were in favor of rolling the dice on Greene and giving up Gregerson was an acceptable loss to do it. I also don’t see how anyone could say that at this date, we got the better end of that deal. I also think all of us would say it is far to early to review the deal conclusively in hindsight.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's too early to review

and given on the attitude then and the talent we gave up, I’ll call it a wash until Greene is completely unproductive for us.

I get tired of the “did we win or did we lose” black and white crap that comes with trades. Most end up being shades of gray. The whole thing with Rolen/Glaus annoys me too. We got a better year out of Glaus last year than the Jays are probably going to get out of two years of Scott Rolen — had we known ahead of time that Glaus would be hurt for all of 2009 we wouldn’t have picked up his option and we’d have a clear win on our hands. Can’t both teams win a trade? It seems both Texas and Cincy got good ends of the Volquez/Hamilton deal does it not?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rolen/Glaus

Don’t forget that TLR essentially cast Rolen out of Cardinal Nation before that deal was made.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We didn't excercise his option...

he did.

I get your point, but I don’t see the harm in looking back at a trade and saying we lost/won. All trades are a gamble, and often the clear winner up front isn’t the winner when all is said and done. I’d do either trade a hundred times over, but the fact is in the end we may have came out on the losing end in both deals.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But all trades aren't a "gamble"

Some trades are, like Glaus and Rolen was basically a “who’s going to be healthier” gamble. Glaus was last year and Rolen has been this year. Are we any better off with Rolen than with Glaus in 2008? No. Are we better off with Rolen rather than Glaus in 2009? Maybe, but there’s no way to know for sure if he’d be hitting as well as he is and playing healthy if he was still in St. Louis.

Some trades are moving players from a position of depth to acquire a player that fills a hole. We have a depth of right-handed relievers in the minors of which four are considered to be better pitchers than Gregerson, so he was expendable. We didn’t have a single viable SS candidate with league average potential at the time of the Greene trade and I’d argue that we still don’t have that player in our farm system. So we dealt from depth to acquire Greene and took on his salary so we didn’t have to give up any players from our farm system that could provide us with useful innings or at-bats. I don’t see how that’s a “gamble”. Did we gamble that Greene would recover? Yes. But that has nothing to do with the trade being a gamble — we could have kept Gregerson and played Ryan at SS and Gregerson would still be in the minor leagues behind four other guys. It also doesn’t mean that San Diego wins the trade because Gregerson has been so well in a relief role for them. Last I checked, Motte and Perez were doing pretty well for our bullpen and Todd and Samuel are pitching well at AAA and AA, respectively.

It was a good gamble on the Cardinals’ part to bet that Greene could turn it around. Any trade where we give up the 5th best of 5 minor league relievers to acquire a SS that has hit 20+ HR in the Show is going to ultimately be a wash no matter how well the reliever pitches for the other team.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inconsistencies

I don’t see how that’s a "gamble". Did we gamble that Greene would recover? Yes.

So your basically saying we did gamble on his bat returning to 2005 form.

But all trades aren’t a “gamble”
Some trades are, like Glaus and Rolen was basically a "who’s going to be healthier" gamble.

Once again we did gamble on who was going to be healthy longer and produce the most

Note: I did like the K. Greene trade at the time, we had no way of knowing about his psychological issues at that time

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personnel moves

Every personnel move in baseball is a gamble. Every signing, release, drafting, and trade. You’re gambling on a laundry list of future events happening or not happening.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You missed the point

We’re gambling on Greene returning to form, but the trade itself was not a gamble — trading Gregerson for any SS that could play above replacement level would have been a justifiable move.

Once again we did gamble on who was going to be healthy longer and produce the most

No, we didn’t! They don’t play the same position do they? They weren’t essentially the same player before all their injuries, were they? There’s a HUGE difference between the Glaus/Rolen trade and the Greene/Worrell/Gregerson trade. We didn’t have any use for Worrell or Gregerson at the time and had plenty of talent to replace them in our farm system. That’s not a gamble, that’s trading from depth to acquire help at a position in which you don’t have depth.

San Diego was looking to dump Greene’s salary, so in terms of what they wanted to get out of the trade, they win as soon as Greene’s salary is off the books. What they got in return was irrelevant to them, they just didn’t want to pay him for 2009. If we look at everything as Win and Lose than San Diego won before playing an inning because they got exactly what they wanted.

I don’t care who was going to be healthy longer and who will produce the most over time. If we’re going to do that, then lets compare all the minor league relievers that were ahead of Gregerson on the depth chart for the Cardinals with him over the next 4 seasons and add them up with Greene’s numbers for this season and see who “wins”.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So the Glaus/Rolen trade

wasn’t a gamble? We just traded the same player for the same player? No the trade was a gamble because both had injury plagued seasons. We were gambling that Glaus would be healthy and contribute and be more productive than Rolen would have been.

We’re gambling on Greene returning to form, but the trade itself was not a gamble

The trade was a gamble, what if motte/perez had been injured, wouldnt Gregerson had been valuable, we were gambling that those two wouldnt be hurt and they would perform well

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

betting thousands of dollars...

on a favorite to win is a justifiable move provided you have the depth finanically to do it. That doesn’t mean it’s not a gamble. I wouldn’t consider this trade to be on par with the Glaus/Rolen trade (a lot less money and useful players), but it was a gamble. We gave away one (perhaps two) major league relievers who will play for the minimum for 3 seasons, and may have nothing to show for it other than $6M less in our bank account. You can call it a justifiable move…I’ll call it a justifiable gamble.

Gamble – to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance:

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So if Gregerson were still in our farm system...

likely setting up or closing in AAA he wouldn’t have any value to us? It was a gamble…if only a slight one. The one risk was that Khalil would hit this year like last, and play subpar defense…as it turns out (though there is still lots of time) we lost a potential back end RH reliever (not to mention Worrell) and $6M on this gamble…Take me back to December, and I’d do it again in a heartbeat.

I’d go all-in on 4 aces everytime…doesn’t mean I can’t lose.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The difference is that

Greene still has more value to us in terms of a potential turn around than Gregerson would have in AAA right now. Why? One is on the big league roster and one isn’t. One is a commodity that is scarce in our minor league system and one represents a commodity which we have a ton of.

That’s assuming Gregerson was setting up at the AAA level and I’m not sure that he would be. That’s making a very big assumption that he moves up in the Cardinals organization — he’s only in the big leagues for the Padres because Worrell got hurt and they don’t have any other good RH relief pitchers in their system.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

right now...

Greene is anything but a commodity, and there are probably 3 or four players that can play at his current level in our system (Ryan, Greene, Barden, Descalso, Solano). He still has the potential to turn things around, but to be honest I don’t see it happening.

Anyway…I’m done here we can agree to disagree if you like.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

every trade is a “gamble.” Just like every draft pick, every free agent signing, every roster move, every managerial move, every decision by the 3rd base coach, every pitch, every swing. Heck, even standing on the on-deck circle can be risky.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Standing in the on-deck circle can be risky...

…when Aaron Miles is at the bat.

Poor Juan Encarnacion…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was at that game

still shudder every time i think about it

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was there, too.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same

I can still hear the ball hitting Juan in the face. Scary stuff.

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on May 28, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man, climbing out of

bed in the morning is a gamble …

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 28, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good thing i don't get outta bed till after noon then

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on May 28, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I miss Luke

I knew he was gone cause he had such a dominant Winter League. The most impressive part of Luke’s game so far this year is his high swing and miss %.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bernie just likes to cater

to the morons on his forum.

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not really cater

he likes to stir up discussion on his forums, cater to them enough to keep them there but also post enough crap to get them to complain and argue with each other. Just look at the whole Duncan defense thing, he shows Dunc as an “average” defender while others bash him for every single misplay, bernie just seems to encourage it sometimes, but it does two things for him. First it draws in viewers for the site’s ads and secondly it brings in listeners to his show for more ad revenue, the guy knows how to make money and he is doing just that.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we could have put together a package to get Harden

I was shock at how little the Cubs gave up for him. Granted he is once again on the DL. But even with the time he has been out for the Cubs he has given them a huge upgrade.

by Evilfrog on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What did the fish give up...

to get Rhodes last year? That’s the one guy I thought we should’ve grabbed up…may not have made much difference in the long run, but he would have been an upgrade over Villone/Flores.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that I am defending Bernie

But I wondered last year why we couldn’t’ve gotten Arthur Rhodes from Seattle. Was Gaby Hernandez (#5 in 2008 for FL by Baseball America) too much to give up by the fish? Some might disagree, but I would have traded one of our pitching prospects for Rhodes, but not Motte or Perez.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on May 28, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The new posts on Bernie's forums are making me glad I don't read it that often anymore

someone asked him who the “Faberge Eggs” were that Lunhow was protecting and he just skirted the question, yet managed to drop Bryan Anderson’s name and then proceeded to mention how he has garnered now trade interest at all and he wants us to just “trust him” on that since he won’t give up his sources. Really tired of Bernie’s “I’m better than you” attitude sometimes, I know why he does it but that doesn’t stop me from being tired of it enough to quit even reading his good posts.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, today's column was just stupid. I wish Bernie would

decide which of his personas to run with … the thoughtful analyst who works hard to keep things in perspective, or the pot-stirring sports populist who echoes the worst axe-grinders on the P-D forums. It makes me dizzy watching him bounce back and forth.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You said it, brotha'

Choose a side and stick with it, Bernie!

by cardsgirl95 on May 28, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I said above I think he does both to garner readers/listners

He provides the stats and info and such for the people like us, so we still read his articles at least occasionally while he provides the other side to spark discussions on his forums and his show thus pulling in the less stat inclined.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are most likely correct,

but it still annoys me when he does the pot-stirring thing. DGoold manages to write engaging stuff without catering to the lowest common denominator (so to speak).

by cardsgirl95 on May 28, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes but Goold probably has a lower readership following

Goold strikes me as the guy that is bound to work for BP or BA full time at some point or become a front office type guy. He is the backbone of the Cards staff right now where Bernie is the flashy outside that pulls people in. I would rather read Goold any day of the week but I doubt the PD would say that Goold is more valuable to their bottom line than Bernie, which is a sad thought.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

never thought I’d hear Bernie described as “Flashy.” Shiny, maybe, but that just the constant film of perspiration covering his face.

by mattyp on May 28, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Goold

is a journalist. Bernie is a columnist.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

I think spants nailed it right there.

by cardsgirl95 on May 28, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bernie is a feckless hack

that’s probably why. His articles are pathetic.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 28, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has Bernie made any appearances

on the Cardinals Live shows this season? I haven’t seen him. Maybe Bernie’s crap is getting so old that even FSM doesn’t want anything to do with him. You know that maybe you need to change the way you do things when that bastion of broadcasting excellence turns up their noses at you.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on May 28, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, no PD sports guys had contracts renewed by FSM

Bernie mentioned it in passing on his new radio show a couple of weeks back.

Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals

www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com

by MilCardFan on May 28, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd do you one better Chuck...

Why not try and pry Bedard away from the Mariners, being that he also is a free agent at the end of the year, while getting them to throw in Beltre and his contract as a salary dump. I really don’t think they can realistically contend over the long haul this year considering how much all their offensive players are struggling, so they’d be better to flip those two guys for some prospects and see what happens.

If we’re talking about heading to the World Series this year, this would be the deal to make, in my opinion. We get an elite defensive 3B who may yet turn it around with the bat, and #2+ starter who also happens to be a lefthander, to bolster the rotation. We would probably have to part with one of Wallace or Jones, along with another pitcher or possibly one of our 3B prospects, like Freese or Craig to get both guys, and our payroll would go up $15M for the rest of the year, but I think it’s worth it considering the state of the rest of the NL right now. You have one team that could be considered elite, the Dodgers (assuming Manny comes back and hits like Manny) and a bunch of teams that all have significant weaknesses (pitching depth, bullpen, offensively mutilated by injuries). Adding both of those players puts helps us rise to the top to contend this year, and all the money comes off the books next year to keep our payroll flexibility going into the offseason.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

I say nay

to any deal for a left-handed pitcher that’s either a #2 or co-ace. Just on general principle.

If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.

by the red baron on May 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why would that be?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

You just

snapped my foul mood. Thanks.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

great,,,,

well now i know what my nightmares will be about tonight

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on May 28, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think we need Bedard.....

Not right now any ways.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather.....

go get Peavy if he can be had without giving up Wallace or Rasmus (which seems possible given what the Padres are said to have agreed to take from the White Sox). Then fill the 3B spot from within (with one of Craig, Freese or Wallace) and go with a middle infield platoon of T. Greene, B. Ryan and Schumaker. This would give the Cardinals a young team as far as position players go, a very strong starting rotation that is under contract for the next few years, provide insurance should Carp suffer yet another injury, and make us the favorites in the division for the next several years while bolstering our chances of making the playoffs this year. Now maybe this isn’t financially feasible but that is not a primary concern of mine. Besides, the revenue from this year’s All-Star Game and multiple playoff appearances in the near future should offset the cost to ownership and maybe even help finance El Hombre’s contract extension. It would certainly indicate a desire to win now and in the near future.

by CURVEBALL on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would not want Peavy for LaRue

That’s right I said it. He is overpaid and will not be worth it down the road. Great this year but every other year the contract will become an albatross.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beat me to it.

What does everyone think it would take to get both Beltre and Bedard in (I believe) the last years of their contracts (don’t feel like checking Cot’s right now)?

by stlfan on May 28, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IM NOT SOLD!!

honestly i would rather see freddy sanchez the adrian beltre, yes beltre has pop but not enough, id rather see a .300 + hitter put in there and not to mention sanchez would fit TLR’s style in versatility, might take a bit more to get him and a bit more salary but to me his 6.1m a year is worth the hits he will get

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would love Freeddie Sanchez

but how would he do at third. Also, I would like to see Craig get his chance. Wallace I like, but no I don’t think he is major league ready and would strike out a ton. Next year he might be the man.

by ridgesee on May 28, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HOW SOON YOU

forget he was a starting 3rd baseman for a while with the pirates, hes also played short and second. and hes a above average fielder anywhere he plays

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he'd also cost 5x as much as Beltre

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

looking at fangraphs UZR/150 rates for his career

he is actually about league average fielding 2b, q quite horrible SS in only like 36 games started in his whole career but his best fielding stats show up when he plays 3b

problem is he hasnt played anything other than 2b since 2007, so one shouldn’t assume that he still has the same skills there

by FunkeeC on May 28, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone else getting a TOLAXOR vibe?

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on May 28, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

me

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

krippledmaster made a Fanpost

about Mo doing a chat with fans today. Ought to be interesting. I thought I’d cross-link to the Fanpost so everyone has a heads up.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This brings up a topic that I've seen discussed some but still don't really understand - insurance

Is Glaus’ salary covered by an insurance policy? He didn’t play at all (even in spring training) – is that a fairly general condition for recovering salary through an insurance policy, or was that specific to Bagwell several years ago when he thought he could play but the Astros wanted to hold him out and collect the insurance? Do teams have an insurance policy for pretty much all players, or are some deemed to have too big of a salary and too much injury risk to be insurable?

by BTown Birds fan on May 28, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think

that they only have insurance on really large contracts. I think there was some discussion about that with Carpenter last year and how even if they did have it, they don’t add that into the payroll or anything. I might be wrong of course, but I think thats what was figured out with Carp.

by JBagKY on May 28, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was 2 years ago, not last year.

by JBagKY on May 28, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right

We had a similar conversation about Juan E. The Cardinals only insure pitchers.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bletre might be the answer

We don’t want to rush Wallace, I am firmly in the mindset that next year he will be ready, but needs the time against advanced pitching in AAA that he is getting right now.

Craig seems like a decent idea, but if they were unwilling to give him the shot out of ST, then I doubt they would now.

So, if we can make the move for Beltre without giving up any of the top prospects, I am all for it.

by JBagKY on May 28, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I STILL

think sanchez is the way to go instead of beltre, id rather have a consistent bat then a non consistent power source

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pirates aren't going to move in....

Within the division. And if they do, they’ll ask for far more than he is worth.

I’m not sold that Beltre is the answer either. I don’t want to trade for somebody else that isn’t hitting. I’d rather go find somebody having a good, or decent year already.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pirates have

done it before and not to mention they have a ton of unrestricted free agents it wouldnt take as much as people are thinking, give em freese or someone else at third

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unrestricted.....

What is this, the NBA/NFL?

They’ve talked about moving Sanchez before, and have always asked for a ton, and obviously they’ve never moved him. I also recall Sanchez wanting to stick around Pittsburg, but could be wrong on that. I don’t think this is even an option. I like Sanchez, though I think we need more of a power bat.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

New signature, inaccurate

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." – Manager Bobby Bragan

Let’s say the oven is set to 350 degrees. An ice bucket is likely around 32 degrees. The average temperature between the two is going to be (350 + 32) / 2 = 191 degrees Fahrenheit. I wouldn’t call that “perfectly comfortable.”

(This is a shot at Bragan, not necessarily you)

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on May 28, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

Awesome.

Made me chuckle.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Say you were...

a general manager and had the choice between signing a 26-year-old with six years of experience and a career BA of .350 over 3,000 ABs and a 26-year-old with six years of experience and a career BA of .250 over 3,000 ABs. According to the percentage people, you would sign the .350 hitter.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

that's almost a yogi-ism.

I’m guessing bragan meant “bucket of boiling water and a bucket of ice water”, but was just too eloquent to actually say what he meant ;)

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 28, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they dont need freese

they have andy laroche, Sanchez is not their third baseman, so he would not open up a hole there. It would likely take Daryl Jones + Jess Todd to land Sanchez

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pirates have

done it before

Under different, stupid, management. Neil Huntington has his shit figured out.

(I think that’s his name, right?)

Anyway, Sanchez isn’t very good…he’s a slappy singles hitter who doesn’t play third base. Beltre WILL hit better, because his track record is an .800 OPS hitter, give or take 10 points, and an ace fielder.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

/UGLY POST

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sanchez "isn't very good"? I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion...

Not the answer to the Cardinals’ needs, but a good ballplayer nonetheless.

V, b.

by LukeMP1186 on May 28, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well..

…he doesn’t walk much and doesn’t hit for power. Therefore, he has to maintain a high batting average to be any kind of productive hitter. This season, he’s posted a .384 BABIP, so an unusually high number of his balls in play have been hits. That’s luck or flukishly good playing, and neither is a sustainable skill. He’s been basically a full time player since 2005, and his OPS has been only slighty better or below average for 2nd basemen every year but one, and that was in 2006 when he won the batting title and had a very good year. His most recent full year of play saw him post a ghastly .669 OPS. He’s probably no better than a hair above average defensively.

To me, a below average hitter and an OKatbest fielder isn’t a very good player. Maybe I’m crazy, but I doubt it.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nicely done

by FunkeeC on May 28, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah the pirates have done it before

but who do you think we are, the Cubbies?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on May 28, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that damn BGH guy stealing my thunder

hours before I even get here.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on May 28, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pirates trading within the division

However, this fellow might be the reason why they wouldn’t do so again.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

POINT

goes to you sir, but for the right package it might happen again, lets not forget they wouldnt have been able to afford ramirez, same with sanchez, and the pirates have been losing for so long it might not matter lol

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They aren't run by an incompetant GM anymore either

and have been stockpiling good minor league talent the last couple of years. They play in one of the better parks in the National League and if they can start winning games the fans will turn out. Pirate fans are notoriously fickle, but they’ll show up to watch a winning team, especially in that park.

I don’t see them trading Sanchez in the division unless they get some prime meat back in return, and I’m also not sure I totally believe in his bat either. He had an Adam Kennedy-like .669 OPS in 2008. He is hitting this year, but I’d rather buy low on a guy like Beltre than overpay for someone like Sanchez.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

point

well taken but kennedy just never seemed to like being in st louis or with tony, sanchez coulve just had a down year, and beltre is such a risk hitting, we need something solid and consistent

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe? Is that you, Joe?

we need something solid and consistent

Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."

by all4tookie on May 28, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

love the sig

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 28, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Solid and consistent?

That doesn’t really describe Freddy Sanchez though does it? He had a .669 OPS last year with over 600 PA’s!! How is that “consistent”? Beltre has been a more consistent offensive player, in a better league, than Sanchez has been and he provides more pop, plays better defense at 3B, and will cost less in trade.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's consistently bad...

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 28, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The .669 OPS is not "solid"

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sanchez

played the entire year last year with a bad shoulder. So, that already qualifies him as a grit contender.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on May 28, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pirates are the Cubs AAAA team

I would doubt heavily a trade between any other team and the pirates could happen within the division.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nooooooooooooo on walters

he is worth his wait in gold if solely for his ability to embarrass alfonso soriano.

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

whoops, weight

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wait works too

if you don’t mind being patient

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on May 28, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice post Chuck. Also RB what is with the mating Italian Greyhounds on the kitchen table?

I like what RB is suggesting to fix the team. The only problems I have with his plan would be dealing Shoe Maker. He has been a good leadoff hitter. Say what you will about him walking but it seems every other game he has 2 or 3 hits. He also has a little pop in his bat.

Also I would start Ankiel over Duncan and let Duncan be the fourth outfielder.

Now with that being said I really like the final line-up offered by RB. Especially the Defense. If we got Beltre I would leave skip at 2B. If you want to plug in Wallace I like the TGreene/Ryan/Pujols group as a better option to offset the Defense of Wallace.

Overall it looks like all we need is a 3B. Until we get one I think Tony will continue to play Thruston so he can make that point. Maybe that is why Tony puts him out there so that MO and the front office are tortured to death by Thurstons play and finally go out and get Tony a 3B.

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I still say DeRosa is the way to go

If only for his versatility and knowledge of NL Central pitchers. He can spell our outfielders and second basemen if we need him to, as well. IF the price is right…

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on May 28, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

derosa problem

hes 34 and tailing off, sanchez(31) has the better bat and is just as versatile, im sure freddy has played outfield at some point lol
not to mention its only a 600000 difference in salary

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're looking for a one-year placeholder

I wouldn’t want to add a 31-year-old (even if that 31-year-old is only signed through his Age 32 season). With Freese and Wallace, you have a competition brewing for third next Spring. No need to block either of those options. DeRosa is more versatile and only under contract through the end of this season. What’s more, if Glaus does come back, DeRosa is a viable platoon partner at second with Skippy as well as LF with Duncan.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sanchez

would be a viable platoon with skip, greene and glaus as well, TLR philosphy dont let the recently injured play full time out of the gate, good options here i will agree derosa and sanchez are the best though

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we get it...

you like Sanchez.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And you don't like Beltre

despite the fact that he’s considerably better at baseball

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 28, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Beltre just fine

I assume you were referring to the post I commented on though…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on May 28, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

derosa is the way to go

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brett Wallace is a bad idea right now.

He’s not hitting well enough to offset his terrible glove but more importantly, this club does not need another left handed bat. Beltre, if he remembers how to hit, would seriously help in that regard. Wallace doesn’t represent an upgrade worth starting his arb clock imo.

If you take on most of Beltre’s salary, you could probably get by swapping some of our AAA starters for him. Seattle has nothing in the way of advanced pitching (mediocre or not) and the addition of a Clayton Mortensen or Mitchell Boggs would probably be appealing though not enough in and of itself.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 28, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Starting his arb clock?

That is the worst argument imo. Do you plan on him trying out in 2010 for the position in Spring Training? Well what if he makes it on the team out of ST? He is a super two and we only have him for 5 years. But if he comes up now we would have him the rest of the season PLUS 2010 and 2011. Since he would not have enough playing time (130 games) this year to qualify for a super two.

In regards to his defense. From my understanding his glove and arm are fine but just has poor range. Do you think more reps in Memphis will improve his range? I don’t. He is a big dude and will be a big dude. In retrospect his defense will most likely get worst while his range shortens.

The only reason not to bring Wallace is if his Bat is not ready for The Show.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1) We’ve got to be realistic about the money. I don’t think Wallace is ready now. I’m not certain if Wallace will be ready in 2010. So if we decide to use Freese or Craig or Barden or whoever for 2 months, we’ve now saved ourselves another super two status.

2) I still have major reservations about his range. I’m just not sure how he’s going to stay at 3rd. And that impacts his value to the club during a callup.

3) I don’t think the bat is ready for the show. Even if it was close to ready, I’d rather have a right-handed power threat like Beltre (given a reasonable price tag).

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 28, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Devil's Advocate

What if the Cardinals cannot get Beltre or another righty-hitting 3rd baseman? What if Glaus doesn’t return this year (you know, like a trade, but without having to make a trade!)? Do you just let the Thurston/Barden combo ride? I’m not sure I’m comfortable with that, at least offensively.

For the record, I’m worried that even if Walrus comes up and mashes, he may be a Ryan Braun type liability. That 2007 Brew Crew absolutely killed themselves with poor defense, and Braun was part of their problem. Do you think it’s possible that Wallace could be that useless with the leather?

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Wallace's range is really that bad

If Wallace comes up that is pretty much the end for K Greene cause he will not be able to cover the defensive liability that is Wallace. Wallace would have to be paired up with a SS with great range such as Ryan. That is the reason I don’t expect Wallace to get called up anytime soon. Cause the organization isn’t ready to give up K Greene yet.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you on his bat

I don’t think he is ready to be called up yet. He is not walking enough in Memphis so far. I just don’t think the Arbitration is really an issue. If he came up now and made it on this team till the end of the year at 3B. Than I think he would win be 2010 starting 3B regardless.

The only argument I think you can use for Arbitration is if you think it will take an entire year of AAA for Wallace till he gets called up. Literally getting called up for the first time a year from now.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course all my excitement over Beltre

could be taken away, if they were able to work out a deal for Brandon Wood. That would be awesome. They guy really needs the chance, but would TLR give it is the question.

by JBagKY on May 28, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

but it seems that FO believes the future 3B solution is some Walrus/Freese/Mather/Barden combo. Until everyone in this mix is healthly and playing, there isn’t going to be any movement to fill the ML spot from outside the organization.

Besides aren’t the Halos difficult trading partners? Wouldn’t they demand a high price for one of their super prospects?

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song: Reason to Believe

by gocards62 on May 28, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Halos still remenber Bottenfield for JimED

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on May 28, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't like that trade at first

I was wrong. Really wrong.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is Wood a ROOKIE or a VETERAN?

I can’t decide what I think about trading for him until I know!

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 28, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only played in 71 games

between 2007-2009
Link to his B-R page

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great piece on Carp and Cards on FanGraphs...

here

Mang Says...
"There is no "I" in team, or in B g Mac Land, either."

by all4tookie on May 28, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great to put Carp's performance into perspective

I don’t get this:

The success of the Cardinals is certainly married to the production levels of Albert Pujols and Ryan Ludwick, but Carpenter stabilizes the starting rotation and adds a proven ace to the mix. If he cannot stay healthy, the team is not very likely to reach the postseason.

Our success is as dependent on our starting pitching as it is on the Pujols/Ludwick combo, as evidenced by the 2008 season when Pujols had another otherworldly season (1.114 OPS) and Ludwick had a breakout season (.966 OPS). In fact, I’d argue that our success depends as much on Wainwright/Carp making 50 starts as Pujols/Ludwick producing a la 2008.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree on Beltre

if he’s available, he’s simply the best 3B option out there. Atkins and DeRosa might have slightly better offensive numbers in recent years, but they’ve garnered them primarily in two extreme hitters’ parks, whilst Beltre’s totals have been somewhat suppressed in comparison in Seattle. I’m going to say he’s probably a similar hitter at this point in his career to DeRo/Atkins. He’s right-handed. He’s also a Rolen quality defensive player, one of the best defenders in the league, and uber-consistent at it, too. If the cost of the three options in prospects is relatively similar (I don’t think any of them will take too much to land) then Beltre is the best. I’d absolutely love to see him in the BoB as an excellent rental option.

I also feel that DeRo’s usefulness has declined a bit now it seems likely Glaus won’t be back – he’d be signed as a pure 3B and start there for the rest of the year; that means his excellent versatility (ability to be our 2nd OF RHB, ability to play 2B vs LHP etc.) won’t be worth anything.

Atkins is probably the guy who I’m least excited about, although he may also be the cheapest, in prospects. His hitting’s severely over-valued by the Coors effect (most of his value comes from his power, not his OBP – big red flag there) and he’s a poor defender. I’m going to vote no on atkins, unless Beltre/DeRosa aren’t available and we can pick up Garrett for next-to-nothing.

I’d happily give up a vaguely meaningful prospect plus a throw-in for Beltre.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 28, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Beltre is worth it just for his glove, and the fact that he’s an actual big leaguer. And, if he gets hot at the plate (and who knows, playing around Pujols he might see some pitches), then that’s just some delicious gravy.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree regarding using DeRosa's versatility.

Don’t forget that we just payed Joe Thurston in left field. NEVER forget who our manager is. LaRussa would drool all over his lineup card with DeRosa, Ryan, Thurston, Skippy, and Barden all on the roster. Imagine the possibilities

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on May 28, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Derosa would stand a good chance...

to play LF against a lefty, especially if we had him right now with Luddy out. How much longer is Mather going to be out?

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Second part to that question

Once healthy, how much longer ’til Mather is a productive hitter?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrist injuries tend to take at least a season to recover from

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus, Mather had wrist surgery last season...

and, now, again this season.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe

this year’s was just to remove a small cyst. Last year’s was a full-on repair.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right,

but it still makes me pessimistic about Joey Bombs in 2009. 2010 may be the next time we see him in STL.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

we’re definitely not seeing him this year. At least we shouldn’t.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he may

never make it back to StL.

The Personal Finance Playbook.

by Toddius on May 28, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't say that

don’t ever say that

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on May 28, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been watching Wallace the past few days

And I can confirm he is not ready. He’s striking out (swing and miss) on off-speed pitches, high fastballs, and he defense is pretty shitty. The one thing I can say is that he has a great arm (his throws to first are absolute bullets with NO arc) and the sound of the ball coming off his bat is intense.

Wait on this guy. Let him develop. I’d say Barden and company are better options right now.

by cloistermaximus on May 28, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about Beltre

his offensive decline screams “former PED user”

but then again, that’s never stopped the Cardinals before.

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Man...just looking over his #'s

He had one hell of a 2004. I mean, that was truly a Pujolsian year minus the lackluster OBP

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if he is a former PED user,

he can still field exceptionally well and hit well enough to more than justify playing him every day. He’s a valuable player, especially for a club currently playing Joe Thurston at 3B.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is still America

We like second chances. We don’t like crappy 3rd baseman who run into outs.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

LMAO

Oquendo wavied him to 3rd. I happen to like players that pick up the 3rd base coach.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or our future star CF.

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It all depends...

hit well enough to more than justify playing him every day

on whether he’s the nearly .800 OPS hitter he was from 2006-2008 or the .562 OPS guy he is in 2009. There was never a defender that could justify a .562 OPS…especially not at 3B or for $13M (or the $8-9M he is still owed).

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

04 Was insane

He hit like batshit crazy that season.

With that said, he’s an average hitter and a superb fielder. He probably is worth between 10-15 runs defensively alone. His hitting will be a step up from Thurston, for sure. Thurston is garbage.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not

high on Beltre’s hitting. But I like his glove, for sure.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i looked it up

‘09 numbers: .212/.245/.317
holy shit, he’s been awful.

by _pistol_ on May 28, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

I just don’t see him “returning to form.” If we trade for him, I will happily eat crow to be wrong.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be hard pressed to give up anything...

or to pay much of his salary. I’d like to be proven wrong, but Barden is a plus defender who appears to be a better hitter than Beltre right now (not to mention several Million dollars cheaper). I can’t ignore two month long slumps that are absolutely horrid…of course I don’t know his batted ball data or BABIP…

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His

BABIP is .243. In ‘08 it was .279. It hasn’t been over .300 since his final year with the Dodgers. For his career it’s .291.

His wOBA is .247. Last year it was .336!

His ISO is .106. Last year it was .191. The highest it’s been with the M’s is .297 in ’07.

Current walk rate is 4.1%. His career walk rate is 7.2%. Last year’s walk rate was 8.3%.

His K rate is right around career average.

So, he’s hitting into some bad luck, but he’s also taking way fewer walks and his power is lacking. I don’t know what to make of this other than he’s bound to “regress to the mean.” But he could just be fading. This is his 12th season.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That

ISO with the M’s should read .207 instead of .297. His ISO in 2004 was .294.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also of note:

09 line drive rate is 4.5% lower than career rate.
09 ground ball rate is over 3% greater than career rate.
09 fly ball rate is in line with career numbers.

The kicker:
09 HR/fly ball rate is at 4.8%, a whopping 8.5% lower than his career rate.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His plate

discipline looks worse as well. His O-swing% is nearly 10 points higher than his career average. He’s seeing the same pitches, too. His Swing% is higher than ever as well.

I don’t know what to make of Beltre. His luck is bad, but his batting skills also appear to be eroding.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

there some sort of middle ground between the two

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm thinking

that if his luck changed, he’d maybe have an OPS of .700.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't see Beltre helping much.....

Unless he starts hitting again, or we find a bat to play SS. While our defense keeps getting blasted by posters, it is apparently good enough for our staff to keep throwing well. I’d rather fix the lineup first.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good point...

recent losses have not been due to runs allowed, but to runs scored (lack thereof).

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Unless he starts hitting again"

which given his track record, we should expect him to do.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 28, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disclaimer: Completely Impossible

But for the past few days I’ve been thinking of what kind of package could be put together to pry Longoria from TB. It would have to be centered around Wallace, I would imagine, and include plenty of ML talent.

Wallace, Anderson, Dunc, Motte/Perez, & Boggs? I have no idea what the Rays would think of this, but a guy can still dream right?

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!

by RunninRedbird on May 28, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He

is there young Pujols. Obviously he isn’t on the Hall-of-Fame track (yet), but there is no way they part with him, not when they’re just starting to get fans.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh.

That “there” should be a “their.”

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Ryan Zimmerman, then?

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Similar issue,

except the Nats are not really attracting fans. But Zimmerman is the player who could pull them in.

I’d love to have Zimmerman or Longoria. But it is not going to happen.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

Zimmerman is the one player we actually like out here in DC. But at least the Nats suck and aren’t exactly the brightest front office, so its at least an idea.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He would be more obtainable

then Longoria.

Zimmerman might could be had for a package of something like Wallace, Jones, and Boggs.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

just the idea of Pujols/Zimmerman anchoring the lineup for a few years is pretty appealing

I know it’ll never happen, but nice to think about.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Wallace

will be a better big league hitter than Zimmerman, though Zimmerman has a much better glove.

The Personal Finance Playbook.

by Toddius on May 28, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

On top of that, He’s got a ridiculously team-friendly contract. He’s just quickly becoming my new favorite non-Cardinal.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!

by RunninRedbird on May 28, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

didn't he sign some long term deal after about a week in the majors?

Looked like a lot of money at the time, looks like an absolute steal right now?

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He did.

It does look like a steal.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

9 years, $44 million if everything goes to plan. Just ridiculous.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!

by RunninRedbird on May 28, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scott Boras just threw up in his mouth a little

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

eff

scott boras, stupid yankee management loving mother effer, pardon the french

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

its alright

You can use whatever words you need when discussing Scott Boras. We’re all friends here.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DIDNT

Know if that was too much even though he gave us ankiel fairly cheap lol

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holy ****, that is one heck of a contract

He officially went from near impossible to impossible to get.

Who am I kidding, he was always impossible to get, but wow did the Rays make a smart deal there.

by TheBirds on May 28, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

as a young 20 something

would you rather play for league minimum and hope you stay healthy in order to get a monster contract, or get a guaranteed multi-million dollar contract and work your way towards an even bigger one?

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It will most likely

be restructured if he keeps playing as well as he does

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

reply

FAIL

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's ok

it makes me feel important

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I could answer your question

i would go with the guaranteed money just so you dont have to worry about performing really well to get that multi year deal and if you perform out of your mind get a new contract with more money

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

its a curious question, though

What would everybody think about going out to get a good, young 3b and trading some prospects for him? Good ones don’t come free, but are we this certain that Wallace is our guy by next year?

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

eh

may or may not i would like to see someone go after something for at least this season, what about edwin encarnacion once he comes off the DL…discuss

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not always a big fan of trading within the division

But, when does he come off the DL?

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HES ON

15 day DL for a wrist fracture

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

also

what about the likes of hank blalock

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Horrible, horrible defender

That’s what I think of Blalock, and that’s why he’s a DH now.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

alright

lol just figured the hitting might turn around in a new atmosphere, just someone else that might be on the trading block

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He also hasn't been able to stay healthy

for most of his big league career. I think his bat is pretty good, but I think he’s headed for a long bout of DH or 1B for the rest of his career and neither of those help out current situation.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blaylock came to mind, too

But again left quickly. Defense issues, afraid of the Arlington effect on his numbers. See: Bradley, Milton

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

one more player

brandon inge?

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's going to be awkward putting his locker next to Wainwright

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

LOL

you remember that wicked curveball i threw? glad your on my team now arent you

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cannot

say it wouldnt be a bad idea though, speakin on versatility

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just looked at his numbers

I didn’t realize how much he hates getting on base. But, he still has 2-4 seasons left in him, gives versatility (which would send TLR’s heart aflutter), and if we’ve seen anything in the last 1+ seasons, the team is working at forcing plate discipline. Could be a rub-off effect. Depends on the price tag, maybe.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea but...

hes got good pop, especially for being in comerica park, and last i knew fairly solid defensively, plays catcher, 3b, OF

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think i would mind seeing Inge

But, it is Thursday. And I change my mind/contradict myself at least 5 times a day.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW

.367 obp this year so far, .902 ops

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw that he's being above average this year

Don’t know if that’s good or bad. Is there any realisticness to this at all?

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dont know

possible option though since the tigers have always talked about getting rid of him somehow

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inge would be interesting...

and by interesting I mean:

Do we have to carry a backup catcher if we have him on the roster? Or can we just dispense with that nonsense and put a halfway productive player in that spot?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmmmm...

I like the sound of that. If we were to cut Lastache who would be left with cool/odd facial hair? Just Franklin?

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Motte.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahhh..

we’ll be okay.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

most of the bullpen

Except for YP, who keeps his party in the back.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BLASPHEMY!!!

nobody can replace Fu man Larue….NOBODY!

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OT: zambrano's ejection

quite the uproar over at bcb over big z’s ejection yesterday. mainly a discussion of how mlb needs to get a handle on overly dramatic, confrontational umps

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with them somewhat

Z is a diva and as such he made more of the situation than it should have been, but before he was thrown out I didn’t see much that was his fault besides questioning the call. The ump escalated, not controlled, that situation.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree too

i’ve been getting really sick of the delayed, emphatic calls by umps and the confrontations with players. perhaps the other side of this is that the mlb needs to do a better job of controling players and managers

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

Zambrano is bound to lose playing time because of his temper, the guy is a big baby

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could you imagine a game where Bradley, Zambrano and Piniella all blow up and get ejected?

That would be a lot of fun to watch.

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

now that would be funny as hell!

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they lose another 8 straight,

this might actually happen…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Watched the video on YouTube

and I have to say, that while Z is a jerk and deserved to be tossed (if for nothing else than the charge at the ump he made), the ump definitely initiated contact. I read their arguments and the quote from the Minor League Umpire and I can’t see any way that the ump wasn’t escalating the event yesterday.

by JBagKY on May 28, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The ump

shouldn’t have stepped toward Zambrano. Zambrano kept stepping away and the ump would just get closer again. It’s one thing for the ump to hold his ground. It’s another thing to try to take more territory.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I stick it here

because I happen to be reading it the same time I am watching ESPN show the event in the Boston/Minn game Thurs night… wherein both catchers and both managers got tossed in the same inning… all by the home plate ump.

by the Tewk on May 29, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that was a joke

he was just called up & he totally tried to make a name for himself. pathetic. he should never ump again.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on May 29, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMO

Piniella should have walked onto the field and slapped Zambrano. At some point that team had to make him accountable for the money they are paying him.

Then again, as a Cards fan I’m glad he didn’t. heh.

I’ll leave out the fact that Zambrano can’t manage to be right on the call of a play 1 foot away from his eyes.

by sdrone on May 28, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lou,

was too busy laughing in the background

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lou doesn't walk that fast

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My question is why everyone hates the Gatorade machine in the dug out

Dempster destroyed it one Tuesday after sucking it up against the Pirates. Now Z goes after it with a bat. I guess it just means job security for the guy in charge of replacing them.

by birdo rojo on May 28, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe they know something about Gatorade

that we don’t?

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard that Gatorade jug was a whore

Was fooling around with the the whole team. That is why the Cub’s are in a slump. They have syphlysis.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

/Anna Benson joke

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one else as entertained as I?

I kept reading my own line and keep cracking up

(((Amused Easily)))

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm very much entertained haha!

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on May 28, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah it was a good line

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on May 28, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

misspelled a word but yeah, it was funny!

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i say go for it!

not very year do u have a realistic chance of winning the pennant…….from what ive seen the door is open this year, if we can get beltre and bedard as one year rentals without losing wallace and rasmus…. well i say pull the trigger……..beltre will be better than what we have now and bedard gives us a lefty in the rotation

by olesmokey on May 28, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i refer to the post above

mark mulder

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not every lefty

turns out like mulder

by olesmokey on May 28, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

HOPE NOT!!!

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

without a lefter starter

post season opponents can set their roster accordingly

by olesmokey on May 28, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

reply please

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's next to the action button

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2006 Cardinals did not have a lefty starter

Handedness is subordinate to ability to pitch well. Or dumb ass luck.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

WHAT ABOUT

the 2 lefties in the bullpen? if the right hander is mowing the lefties down put in the lefties to counter the line up and make the other manager make some moves

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

fun article

with quotes from a coupla cardinals….

http://www.wisn.com/cnn-news/19586075/detail.html

by cdb on May 28, 2009 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

BY GHOSTS

Larussa means when he sees double after a bit of liqour lol

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so Lohse is not pitching tomorrow night...

who pitches then?

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

PINIERO

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

everyone moves up cause of the off day

by huts04 on May 28, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zimmerman

would obviously be a great fit for the Cards – great 3B and great bat behind Pujols. I wonder if there is anyway that the Cards could put together enough to get him and how much would the Cards be willing to give up?

by Warcard on May 28, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nats just resigned him

He’s going nowhere anytime soon.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but,

The Nats have a lot of needs. We have a glut of RH relievers. If you replace Zimmerman with Wallace and throw them some pitching maybe it gets done.

They will have Strasuburg next year and if the get some depth in the bullpen maybe they can win some games.

Some of our farmhands have to be better than what they are playing at the Major League leve right now.

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They wouldn't have signed him to extension if they didn't want him

That’s just common sense. They want to build something, and they plan on having Zimmerman as the core of that rebuilding.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't necessarily agree with that...

signing him long term (and for less than he would probably get as a FA) makes him a lot more attractive in a trade than having him be a pending FA. I would agree that a team normally doesn’t sign a player long term that they are planning on letting go…but I don’t think it eliminates the possibility.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

strangely, pitching is probably the one thing the Nats don't need

It doesn’t look good until you realize their entire starting rotation is under 25, and is about to get bolstered (maybe) by Strasborg. They do need some outfielders, but apparently they’re big on their 2007 draft class to come up and make an impact (2 of those pitchers are already up now, including the next great hope in ZimermaNN). Wallace and Jones would be interesting prospects to them, but sadly, I just don’t see it happening.

Its pretty amazing this year seeing how adding Adam Dunn behind Zimmerman has helped Zimm – he’s a different hitter with a bit of protection.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they absolutely need relief pitching

they have the worst bullpen in baseball by far

but relief pitchers won’t land you Ryan Zimmerman

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zimmerman would be awesome.

Where does he hit in the line-up?

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

would hit 4th

in StL, I would imagine

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 28, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like him at #2

but it ain’t happening. I think the trade starts with Wallace and Jones, and probably includes one of Motte/Perez, and some minor league pitching. We pretty much have to empty the farm to get Zimm, I’d think. Rasmus might land him without much else, though, which probably wouldn’t be the worst trade in the world, given our depth at CF. Still, Zimmerman’s a pipe dream.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

would love to get Zimmerman...

but doesn’t he have injury concerns? or was it an isolated incident

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's the face of the franchise

they aren’t trading him

by tdawg on May 28, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

also (unfortunately) true

They’ll probably be able to get above-market value for Nick Johnson here in the next month (if their FO can figure out how to do anything right), and start loading up the farm system from that.

But we can dream, right? I like dreams.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would like this guy

He has a current OPS of .291/.403/.449/.852 with .308 BABIP, with a good eye 1.68 BB/K rate. Did I mention he can play SS, 2B, and 3B all with an above average to great glove. He is a Free Agent next year and makes only $1.1M this year.

Who’s that guy?

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not a bad idea

He is on his way for a career year, my only problem with him is his track record. Hes only hit above .270 once, and that was 5 years ago, although it might not be such a bad idea to give up jaime garcia or another low ceiling pitching prospect

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he is a player to keep an eye on regardless

Next year’s FA class at SS is just pathetic. He has a good glove regardless and can play multiple positions. His bat being so good this year is just a boost. I might have to look at the Blue Jay’s board to see what they say about him.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To tell you the truth

I dont think hes been that much better than T. Greene. He’s having a career year so far but his other years, 2004 excluded, hes hit around .260 which is not that much better than Greene

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why is Garcia a low ceiling prospect?

because of the injury?

I think Jaime is considered to be a #3 type pitcher with #2 potential. TJ surgery is no reason to cut him loose.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I concur

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beltre, according to the PD Boards

Beltre F’ING SVCKS!!! He STRIKES OUT SOOOO MUCH!!! His batting average is SSSSOOOOO Low!!! FVCK HIM LOLz.

But seriously, Beltre would be as good an option as any. The M’s and their new GM Jeff Zzugyokofiajldkuoifjalkjsdfl have sort of changed direction it seems and are trying to clear out all the bad contracts and evaluate their players more intelligently. Beltre is on his way out, I would imagine, because of his age and his contract, but he’s really a much better player than people give him credit because he’s an ace fielder and an average hitter. That’s nothing to spit at.

I’d also be interested in Garrett Atkins, who has been the victim of a .211 BABIP to this point, if he could be had cheaply. His OPS has seen a decline over the past several years, which makes me a bit nervous, but I’m reasonably certain he’ll hit for more power and be more of a threat than Brioe Barston. In a perfect world, STL would have a real third baseman, Barden would be the utility IFer, and Thurston would be elsewhere. Alas, we do not live in said world. Oh, and in said world Hanley Ramirez would be the SS and Tim Lincecum and C.C. would be in our rotation too…

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ID MUCH RATHER

see inge then atkins, atkins is a product of thin air, inge is playing in a pitchers park and putting up solid numbers

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"colonel sanders

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atkins does have a significant HOME/ROAD split, but how much of that is Coors Field and how much of that is simply a normal home/road difference is ambiguous. Coors is such a strange environment in so many ways that we’ll never really know until you pull him out of there.

As for Inge, I’m leery about acquiring any player in the middle of a career year. Inge has never posted an OBP higher than .340 in the major leagues, and he’s currently at .367. That screams unsustainable to me. 22% of his fly balls have left the yard, as compared to roughly 10% for the rest of his career. That means either he’s getting lucky on his fly balls, or he’s simply hitting fly balls harder and farther than ever. Neither is likely to continue.

BTW…Inge’s career OPS is lower than Atkins AWAY OPS. So, despite being a “product of thin air” Atkins has still had a better career than Inge.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

GUESS

it comes to im not a huge fan of atkins

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"colonel sanders

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

were looking for a rental what are the salaries for both the players like?

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"colonel sanders

by DESTROYER on May 28, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atkins is currently on a one-year, $7M deal.

Inge will not be a free agent.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

While all that is true...

you fail to mention the glove. Inge is an above average-elite defender — Atkins might be the worst third baseman in the National League defensively. There’s probably 2 wins of difference just in defense alone between those two, more than enough to make up for the difference in their career average bat.

I don’t think Inge is going anywhere as long at the Tigers are in first place though.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So what you're saying is that Kansas City needs to hurry up and get hot...

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They could wait until after June 21st to get hot...

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was responding to DESTROYER's post

I’ve advocated in several posts in this thread that Beltre is THE guy they need to target. However, given that Atkins is in a contract year, he may be available and wouldn’t be the worst alternative if the FO wants to go outside the organization, and assuming MO simply wanted to upgrade the offense. As you said, Inge probably not available, so he’s not even worth discussing. In my post, I was trying to put both Inge’s and Atkins’s offensive numbers in context. I have not advocated that one is better than the other…I think as a total package I would agree with you. But Inge is not as good of a hitter as Atkins, and that was all I was trying to say.

Here’s the real question…I wonder what the overall difference between Barden and Atkins would be? I feel Barden is a better player than Thurston and should get the majority of AB’s over there. For what it’s worth, and it’s not worth much given the inexact nature of UZR, Barden has been roughly a .5 WAR player to this point, while Atkins has been -1.1. Atkins has to be due for an offensive revival, and would presumably wind up about a 0-1 WAR player by the end of the season, right? Would Barden be better or worse? I really don’t know…Hmmm…Wow that was a tangent…

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atkins blows

he is entirely a creation of Coors Field. Ask the A’s how they like their Matt Holliday investment. Atkins’ career road OPS is .735 and he has huge home park advantages every season of his career.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on May 29, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inge is a decent glove too

from what I recall. Atkins is approaching butcher-level at 3B.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wallace

After watching Wallace the last three games here in Portland it doesn’t look like he will ever pass as a 3rd baseman. He has a hard time going to either side for groundballs. Jose Oquendo has his work cut out for him. Also looks like he is pressing at the plate. The pitchers he is striking out against wouldn’t make the Memphis staff. Keep your fingers crossed.

by redbirdz on May 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you going to tonight's game?

I have an extra ticket down in section 112, Row M right behind home plate.

by cloistermaximus on May 28, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

because 3 games in Portland

can really tell you everything about whether or not a guy can handle a position in the long term.

If Skip can play 2nd base, Wallace can play 3rd.

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy there shooter!

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on May 28, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the jury is still out

on whether Skip can play 2B

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on May 29, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wonder if he'd be better defensively at third?

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 29, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's gotta be DeRosa, right?

1) He’s right handed
2) He kills LHP
3) He kills pitching in the NL Central
4) He is a 1 year rental
5) He can play 3B
6) He can play LF
7) Despite having a down-ish April/May, he’s still got more pop than what we got.
8) DID I MENTION HE IS RIGHT HANDED!?!?!?!?! AND KILLS LHP!?!?!?!?!?!
9) Joe Morgan says he can throw a football over those mountains.

DeRosa’s a no-brainer. He’s only owed about $5 M left this year and then he walks.

For me, unless they plan on getting a 3B for the next 5 years, DeRosa is the perfect fit. He can be the everyday 3B against RHP, start in LF or 2B vs LHP and Tony can play musical chairs with him all over the diamond.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 28, 2009 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs

Rec'd

for the uncle Rico reference alone.

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

He would satisfy everyone.

He’s a utility guy, TLR satisfied.
He’s a good player, VEB satisfied.
He’s a veteran, SoonerfanTU satisfied :P

What’s the hold up? (Oh, they’re asking for Rasmus? I see….)

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on May 28, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

:)

I do think DeRosa is the best option right now, for alot of reasons.

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW, DeRosa can play 2b too.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on May 28, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what I was thinking

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said that.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 28, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah.

So, I’m supposed to read the ENITRE post before I respond to it?

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on May 28, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I'm all for DeRosa

And I’d prefer the move sooner to later. He’s tailor-made for TLR. If Glaus comes back, DeRosa can play 2B or LF vs. lefties.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

makes the most sense

to me. But, whats the cost? Reports are Indians want major league ready pitching. What do we have that we can give them. We already gave them Reyes last year, maybe they’d take Thompson this year?

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 28, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but I doubt it

How happy I would be to send Das WunderBrad off, never to be heard from again. I’d say that Boggs is the likelier MLB-ready pitcher (even with his recent struggles).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would think that Boggs would be the guy they'd ask about to

Mo says they asked about a “Motte or Perez” type. Would Adam Reifer be to much for him? I don’t think so, but maybe Reifer is better than I thought.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on May 28, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see why we would hesitate if...

Boggs, Walters, or Hawksworth was the centerpiece of the deal. I think I’d be okay with Riefer, too.

"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs

by cardzfanbub on May 28, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to keep Boggs

I think he’s better than advertised…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 5:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man, I really don't want the Carss to give up Reifer

maybe I am crazy, but I can see him being THE closer of the future. He has that great fastball, and a plus slider. His control just has to be better than Perez’s too ( yes, I am not looking at his BB/9 anymore, it might ruin my fantasy).

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on May 28, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reifer

probably won’t get it done. I’m not sure how good the prospective career of your average minor league reliever who’s dominated at A ball is, but I bet a lot of Reifer-esque youngsters flame out and never amount to much. Reifer plus a low-ceiling triple A guy (Hawksworth?) would be a good deal for us IMO.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on May 29, 2009 5:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have finally come around to the idea of adding Derosa.

Like you said HL it is the best fit for a short term replacement. If Glaus does come back he can play elsewhere. Now if we only had a time machine and could go back to 1982 and kidnap Mike Schmidt we would be a lock for the playoffs this year.

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone following the Moz Chat on MLB.com?

It just started..

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the link

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

These are the dumbest questions

I have asked 8 questions so far all original and not asking questions I already know his answer too

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you just got one in!

good question too

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I figured they would have to recognize me

If I just kept asking questions

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bs answer, though

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There all BS pretty much

Except the Jaime Garcia one

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i tried to ask a follow-up

what about todd’s skillset makes him better suited for the pen?

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very frustrating answers from MO

My bet is they don’t like his height.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never undestood why most teams are so stuck on size.

I mean, if we has oswalt, would we have put him in the pen?

by DriverZn on May 28, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lincecum?

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Astros have gotten a number of great, smaller pitchers

Because other teams seems to take a pass.

Oswalt
Hampton (pre-injury)
Wagner

And yes Lincecum is another great example.

by DriverZn on May 28, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wagner was the other immediate thing that came to mind

And also, Pedro?

Note: I don’t think we should get Pedro.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The page isn't working for me

my internet stops responding when i load the page

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If someone could paraphrase the good Q and A's that would be helpful

My office has a firewall up for this thing and I can’t seem to get around it.

SF CARDS FAN

by norlanski on May 28, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he responded lance lynn to a question about future aces

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has anyone asked him about the draft?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whats the point?

You know he will not make a comment about it

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hope not!

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 29, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly not a lot to say

But at least he isn’t getting attacked like with the Joe Struass chats

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice question on The Destroyer F2tF

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was a good question

He just said that Jon Jay and Allen Craig were swinging the bat well recently and might get called up this year.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We can only hope Craig gets the call (assuming he continues to hit)

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am huge Craig and Jay fanboys

You think LaRussa would like them. They both got extended spring training looks cause how good their bats were in ST

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

And then neither hit for the first month in Memphis.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Much like K. Greene

Dude was hitting so well in ST that he opened the season as the cleanup guy. :(

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable." - Manager Bobby Bragan

by SoonerfanTU on May 28, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he is gone

Didn’t even make it an hour

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone just asked what will happen to Stavinfection when Ludwick and Rick

get back in shape.

Like they are sitting around eating donuts.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 28, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And just like that the Chat is over.

30 minutes and what, 10 questions?

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The length was lame

But, it’s cool that he does this fairly regularly.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"All moves will be decided tomorrow"

Gee, I hope not.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 28, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right

“All moves will be ~~decided~~ announced tomorrow” is more like it.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As soon as he made that comment

I knew all of them would be BS. So I just asked questions about players in the Minors and the upcoming rule 5 draft.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I sent him a message that didn't get posted

asking
“Why must the team carry 2 long relievers and 6 middle infielders? Is it that imperative that at any moment we have 3 RH shortstops on the roster? I know Tony makes the lineups but you control the roster. Couldn’t we use another RH OF’er or a late inning reliever more wisely than all the redundancy?”

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 28, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TLR is trying to make a point

“see, Mo, I told you we needed Matt Holiday”

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I asked ones about minor leaguers

Some examples:

“2011, Tyler Greene or Pete Kozma?”
“Why did the organization give up on Allen Craig as a third baseman?”
“Are you scared about Jess Todd destroying you?”
“Do you think that Matt Pagnozzi could hit .225 in High-A ball?”

Only one of those is fake.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Pagnozzi one?

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Even though Pagnozzi only hit .193 during High-A days. As an aside, Pagnozzi has never hit over .236 in the minors.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jason Motte

part duex ?

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His arm didn't impress me in DSM

He wasn’t throwing lasers down to second and had second base swiped on him a couple/few times. Plus, TLR has designated Pagnozzi the Cards’ third-string catcher (which is absurd to me).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is crazy

but he can’t be any worse than Einar was, and that is the only positive thing I can say about that situation.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on May 28, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we already have that

there is already another catcher turned pitcher in the minors, whos name I can’t seem to remember atm

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Casey Mulligan

and David Carpenter too.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on May 29, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

chris perez was a catcher at one point in college, as well.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 29, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Luhnow better

Especially when the questions are asked by like minded people like VEBer’s.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Luhnow's are good

the only problem being, if you took his word about every prospect, we’d have a team full of future HOFers by 2011.

I like his excitement about them though, it’s contagious.

TRADE FOR DEROSA!!!

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs," Carpenter said. "That is a fact."

by Cuttah on May 28, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally, I don't see the harm in giving Craig at least a passing shot.

Why not give him a few AB’s at the hot corner? At least we will know what we have in the system before we go get somebody in a trade we may regret.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on May 28, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Their treatment of Craig makes no sense to me

I think that his defense is underrated. I mean, we have Joe Thurston playing third base on a regular basis. He nearly gets Pujols killed every other throw to first.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he really does

kick puppies?

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 28, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is he

worse than wallace?

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on May 28, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's different

better range (although still below average) but a lessor arm. I’d rate him the better defender.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that would be conducting due dilligence

not a strong suit of the redbirds

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on May 28, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Craig shoud develop a nagging injury of some sort.

That would not only guarantee his call-up, but also a starting job. We all know you can’t heal from injury unless you play through it.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on May 28, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

But it makes to much sense to happen.

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cardinal Beat

La Russa and Ryan at odds…over ghosts

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Loved that peice

I almost posted it myself.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on May 28, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a little melancholy

TLR’s quote made me think ‘pitchers’.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brendan is silly

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doghouse

here he comes.

by sdrone on May 28, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ask a stupid question

Nice deadpan.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

deadpan is my bread and butter

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

on Khalil's opinion of his anxiety issues:

…“but offered no indication of his thinking on the situation”

?

thanks for the link, I thought Brendan might be being clever

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's classic shirtlicker

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mother ship touch of death for Pineiro

According to baseball-reference.com, he could become the first pitcher since Greg Maddux in 1995 to have five straight starts without allowing a walk or a home run.

by STLRegalia on May 28, 2009 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

pinaddux

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yet another reason i love the VEB board

on an off day, there are 300+ comments here

on the Nationals board – 33

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well

they are the Nationals

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what would they talk about?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would talk about how great Adam Dunn is

And how much value we are getting for $10MM.

I’d also be celebrating the release of Cabrera.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 28, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and the Zimmermans

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zimmerman(n)s

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

desert island league and you can only have one?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I take a gamble

and go with the YP

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I go with the hitter.

"If I prepare myself, my stuff is good and I'm going to get outs. That is a fact." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on May 28, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's probably the correct choice

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

easily the hitter

Lots of ruined arms out there. Watching Zimmerman(3b), this guy is the real deal.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam Dunn is one of those guys i always thought was overrated

Until getting to see him play regularly. The guy can destroy a ball, works counts, and is an offensive machine, and has definitely made Zimmerman a better hitter. Watching him play in the field, though, is the reason I’m thankful for Chris Duncan.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who cares if he can hit?

the only reason he does hit that baseball so damn hard is because he hates it

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on May 28, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

if only Elijah Dukes felt the same way about baseballs as he does ex-girlfriends

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

while i realize you were mostly being funny

but dukes was hitting damn well until his injury

by FunkeeC on May 28, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to go ahead and repost a post on Adam Dunn

I wrote this on a thread about Adam Dunn several months back. I like my writing here…

I’m reasonably certain…

…that Mr. Dunn spent last week breaking every single bat he could find and kicking puppies, all while peeing on pieces of apple pie and American flags. He then found his mom and hit her with a mallet. He didn’t swing it though, because that reminds him of baseball, which he hates.

The week before he went to a local pitching/hitting/training center (a la Balls and Strikes if you’re from the St. Louis area) and punched every single person there merely for playing and liking baseball. He then took all of the folding chairs out because, well, that’s what you do when you’re mad. Right?

“Your Holiness, I’m Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal.”-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:47 PM EST

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on May 28, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Random Question

Anyone think Dunc could possibly work his turn-around magic on Cabrera?

by birdo rojo on May 28, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

He just sucks and is most likely injured

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on May 28, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One Blaine Boyer

at a time, please.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on May 28, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

heh

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

Worth a shot. He supposedly has mechanical issues, but Carp is the local guy there. Teach him a 2-seamer and to pitch to contact, Cabrera is not a lost cause.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and after Jeff Weaver, I'm willing to believe anything

Except creationism. But Duncan could probably convince me of that, too.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

on the first day, there was the sinker?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 28, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the first day, the fastball

that’s why the catcher flashes the number 1.

It’s right out of the Old Testament book of Doubleday, Verse 1, Chapter 1.

Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals

www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com

by MilCardFan on May 28, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Precipitous velocity decline,

explosive walk rate increase.

fail

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on May 28, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even w/o a velo decline

he would still be Daniel Cabrera. I watched him dig too many holes for the O’s over the years. Pass.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 28, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or how can they be playing in Syracuse.

Isn’t there still snow on the ground up there?

by nybirdfan on May 28, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and letting Teddy win the president's race

And of course the team screws up and spells it “Rossevelt”. The Nats are the worst franchise ever. Actually went to the game last weekend with a couple of old Montreal fans. They were in shock.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yah

my spell check is terrible at times, but heres what they have done this season…messed up jerseys, messed up zimmerman(pitcher) name on bat, and the teddy R. fiasco…they have poor poor quality going on right now

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on May 28, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can only talk

about Strausburg for so long

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Nick Johnson trade rumors

On the other hand, Randy Johnson is coming to DC for his 300th win. Might have to get tickets for that.

by Expatcardfan on May 28, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

y'know

I hate it when the Brewers untuck their shirts. glad they didn’t have to do that

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 28, 2009 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Theres an article

from their perspective.
Link

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That guy

makes Strauss look competent. That’s a terrible piece of journalism.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on May 28, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

the way he writes you would think that Albert stands at the plate and beats his chest while pointing at the pitcher

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring" -Rogers Hornsby

by stlwcards on May 28, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Incoherent would be a kind description.

by cardsgirl95 on May 29, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

SIGN HIM UP FOR THE STL-PD!!!

He can do a chat with insipid commenters and gregarious replies, yes?

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on May 29, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well....

Then again, the Gashouse Gang clowned. Ozzie Smith flipped. Al Hrabosky stomped. Albert Pujols, maybe the best hitter since Ted Williams, chest thumps and points skyward.

Albert’s is a spiritual celebration, Ozzie’s was pregame, and Al’s was intimidation to try to win a game.

Shirt untucking, to me, is disrespectful to the game, not just the team you are doing it in front of. That’s why I don’t like it. It doesn’t matter if the Brewers, Cubs, or Pirates do it or how relevant they are in the standings. It’s just not something professionals should do.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!

by RunninRedbird on May 28, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like how they try to compare shirt untucking

to Ozzie’s back flip… FAIL

4B - beer baseball bands blog
"OOHHHHH!!!! He knocked out the I in Big Mac Land!!"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 29, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or Pujols' acknowledging God; that was a really bizarre comparison.

by BTown Birds fan on May 29, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't bother me

If it bothers the Cards..well then don’t lose. Of the two K-Rods dance dance revolution he does at the end of a save is worse than untucking the jerseys

by Harknights on May 28, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no, it isn't.

and this dude’s bad hair is worse than bernies, which is actually pretty cool.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on May 29, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not this guy?

Joe Crede from the ~~White Sox~~ Twins.

Better option than what is down on the farm, short term, contract is a 1 yr/2.5 mil contract. Back issues seem to be okay, and I don’t see Minnesota having the pitching to stay in the AL Central race.

Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals

www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com

by MilCardFan on May 28, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

we seem to have lost track of the big question

which stand in 3rd baseman is cheapest? can you say atkins?

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on May 28, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How is he cheaper than Crede?

Not trying to be a smart ass, I’m just not familiar with his contract numbers. It can’t be better than Crede’s when taking into consideration the bat that Crede provides, can it?

Thoughts on the Vikings, Buckeyes, and Cardinals

www.purplebuckeye.blogspot.com

by MilCardFan on May 28, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone watching the Rebirds v Beavers game?

i think they’ve shown every woman in attendance. apparently the director used to work for wgn.

Redbirds up 4-0 bottom of the 3rd btw.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

by gdm426 on May 28, 2009 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did they show an ugly son of a bitch in a faded cards cap?

That was me.

by cloistermaximus on May 29, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So...Wallace isn't in the game tonight for Memphis.

I know it is probably nothing more than a day off but my mind can’t help to wander over to the “maybe they will call him up this weekend pasture”.

"Rasmus doesn't hit lefties. Instead he bashes them over the head with their own bleeding arm he just raced to the mound to rip off before the ball arrives to the plate. He then smashes that baseball with the pitchers bloody arm over the wall because he does not hit lefites he bashes them." Ted Lilly

by Red Blazer on May 28, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs