In Which the Author Holds Forth, at Great Length, With Much Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth
Alright. First off, let's get it out of the way: I'm an angry dude this morning. And I just want to put this out there for Mr. DanUp: next time you want to wave your magic wand and magically regress one of our players, how about you don't? Just write about something else, okay? Maybe you could predict Todd Wellemeyer is clearly on track to turn into Nolan Ryan or something, rather than how he's just about due to give up a couple of long balls. We clear? Good stuff.
Now, to talk briefly about the game itself.
I've already ranted and raved once today about the deployment of the bullpen, and I'm not going to go into it again. However, I do have one thing that's really bugging me this morning, and since you are my semi-captive audience (in the sense that you're pretty much stuck with whatever I write, unless you choose to go elsewhere), I'm going to fill your digital ears with my anger.
The problem that I have is with the quality of at-bats that were taken in the ninth inning last night. Most of us were there, and I'm sure recall the situation: six runs down, the Cards load the bases of Matt Capps, then proceed to go quietly the rest of the way by flailing wildly at a bunch of junk.
Colby Rasmus led off the inning, singling on three pitches. He took a ball, fouled off a pretty good pitch, then got his base hit, nearly killing Adam LaRoche with the bathead at the same time. Joe Thurston then comes up in a pinch-hitting role and works a walk on five pitches. Outstanding plate appearance, really, as it was becoming clear that Capps, who is just coming off an injury, didn't have real solid command of his repertoire. So rather than trying to hit something that wasn't going to favour him, Thursty Joe just took what he was given, and trotted on down to first base. Good job, Joe.
And while I'm thinking about it, can I stop and bitch about something else? With Thurston at the plate, Rasmus took second base. It was classified as defensive indifference. I know it's an accepted part of the game, but I effing hate defensive indifference. Honestly, how the fuck is that even a rule? Say a team is down ten runs in the eighth, and they obviously just want to go home. So the hitters for the team that's down just go up and swing at everything, no matter where the pitch is. When a guy strikes out, does the pitcher not get credit for the strikeout due to hitter's indifference? No, he doesn't. You play the game to the end, to the 27th out. It's one of the beautiful things about baseball, the fact that you can't just run out the clock. You have to play to the end. So how in the hell is defensive indifference a thing? And I'm not just saying this because I think it's a shame that Colby won't get credit for the steal. I think it should always be a stolen base if a guy takes the base. You want to complain about it hurting your stats, catchers? Then throw him out. Otherwise, quit bitching because you just didn't feel like playing the game. Ugh.
Anyhow, back to the ninth inning. After Thurston walks, up comes Duncan. And what does Duncan do? Well, Chris did what he usually does, and put up an outstanding plate appearance. Took a ball, fouled off a couple, took a couple more to run the count to 3-2, fouled off two more pitches, and then took ball four. Outstanding job, Dunc. I know I give you a lot of shit about your histrionics in the field, but that was a beautiful at-bat. Just beautiful.
So here we have a pitcher, coming back from an injury, whose control seems a little suspect, to say the least. He has walked the bases loaded with no outs, and at the very least is looking as if he's having trouble putting hitters away.
And what do the Cardinals do with this golden opportunity? Do they make a game of it? Do they cash in a couple of those runners, turn that six run deficit into something that maybe makes the Pirates sweat it a little bit?
No. No they do not.
Instead, Tyler Greene comes to the plate and strikes out swinging on four pitches. Capps didn't throw him a single fastball in the PA; four sliders in a row. Swinging strike, foul, ball, swinging strike. Of the four, I think one was a strike. One.
So here comes Jason LaRue. Hey, he's a catcher, right? He should at least be able to look at the pitcher and see the signs of a guy who's a little off, right? LaRue, apparently eager to prove that he does not, in fact, know anything about pitchers, strikes out on three pitches. Two sliders, two swings, two fouls, and then a high fastball that LaRue can't catch up to. Swing, swing, swing. Just hopeless.
The last hope for the Cardinals is Shane Robinson, gritmeister extraordinaire. Surely he can gut out a tough at-bat, no? One of those David Eckstein specials, where he gets two strikes, then fouls off half a dozen pitches before shooting one into right field?
First pitch: Slider, swinging strike.
Second pitch: Slider, taken for a ball.
Third pitch: Fastball, pop fly to right field.
Game over.
So, just to review: Matt Capps is struggling with his control, struggling to really put guys away, and the three guys who come up to bat with the bases loaded all swing at the first pitch. What's even worse, though, is this: those three hitter saw ten total pitches, eight of which went for strikes. Of those eight, how many do you think were called strikes?
The answer: zero.
That's right. Matt Capps threw ten pitches to end the game, and not one of them was called a strike. The only two pitches of those ten that weren't swung at were called balls.
Now, you could certainly argue that the hitters doing all this hacking were also terrible hitters, so maybe that's the reason, and you would have a point. Not to say they're all terrible hitters, but you've got two guys with about a week and a half of ML experience between them, and a backup catcher. Let's face it: that's not exactly a recipe for success.
But what I keep coming back to, and I'm sure you're tired of hearing about it by now, is the approach that we hear preached for hitters in those situations. We hear the mantra of aggressiveness, of swinging at the first good pitch you see, because you may not see another. La Russa, in particular, has been very vocal about the kind of aggressive at-bats he wants to see in RBI situations.
Okay, so let me just say my piece here, and then we can all get back to our lives. First off, I have a pretty serious problem with the idea that you may only see one good pitch in an RBI situation. No, I don't have any numbers to throw at you. But just look at it logically for a second. The premise that is always advanced here is that in a situation with runners on base, the pitcher is only going to give you one good pitch to hit, then just junk you to death with crap out of the zone.
To me, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If a pitcher has men on base, shouldn't he have to throw more good pitches, instead of less, in order to avoid compounding his problems by walking more hitters on or possibly even forcing in a run? We hear, usually from the same bad media people and old school baseball types, that the best protection for a player is to have men on base in front of him. See, now that I agree with. You want pitchers to have to pitch to Albert Pujols? Put two men on in front of him, so that the opposition has nowhere to put him, unless they're comfortable loading the bases. Do you see the problem?
The problem is that the above two statements, made by the same people, often within the same game, cancel each other out.
Statement A: The best protection is men on base. You force the pitcher to pitch to a guy, since they don't want to walk him. He'll see better pitches to hit.
Statement B: With men on base, a pitcher is less likely to throw you anything to hit, so you'd better jump on the first good pitch you see.
So which one is it? Does a player see more or less hittable pitches with men on base? I go with choice A, personally; with the bases occupied, you force pitchers to either be less fine to avoid possibly making the situation worse, or, well, throw less strikes and make the situation worse.
The second problem that I really have with this is the idea that somehow a hitter needs to change his approach depending on the situation. Why is it that managers seem to want their players going away from their strengths with the game on the line?
Now, I'm not saying that every player should be up there taking pitches and working the count all the time. Obviously, I consider that the ideal, but there are plenty of different approaches a hitter can take and be successful at what he does. There are hitters who have outrageous numbers when they swing early in the count; those guys should probably swing early in the count more often. The point is that a player has to find the approach that works best for him. Why, in the most important moments in a game, would you ever want that player to change the approach that has the best chance of producing a positive outcome?
I think the problem all boils down to this: managers (well, quite a lot of them, anyway), seem to think that different outcomes are more desirable in different situations. Now, is that true? A little bit, yes. A double with the bases loaded is certainly better than a walk. But, and this is the real key, a walk is successful. A hit by pitch is successful. Anything that isn't an out, regardless of the situation, is successful. Is it as successful as a double in the gap? No, but it's still infinitely preferable to failure.
So let me just put it out there, in a very clear and to the point way. Tony, if you're listening, write this down on one of your index cards. Any other managers who may be eavesdropping, feel free to take note as well.
The point of a plate appearance is NOT to get a hit. The point of a plate appearance is to avoid making an out.
I know, it doesn't seem like a big thing, but it really is. It's mostly accepted in baseball by now that a walk is as good as a hit. The one time that doesn't seem to be the case is in RBI situations. When a hitter has a chance to drive in runners, it seems as if suddenly the rules change, and a guy had better be hacking, trying to put one in the gap somewhere.
On a quick side note about this, Ricky Horton desperately needs to learn this point. His complaining about things like bunting for a base hit with two outs is really beginning to wear on me. He seems to think that a guy coming up with two outs shouldn't ever try to bunt, because, um, well, I'm not really sure why. Again, if the bunt is successful, it's exactly the same as a line drive base hit. Yet Horton will trumpet one as a triumph of batsmanship, while the other isn't smart baseball, even though they both have the exact same outcome. Again, repeat it with me, Ricky: any plate appearance that results in a player getting on base is a successful one. Regardless of how it was done. If the bunt has a good chance of being successful, then it's a good play. How is this really so difficult to comprehend?
So how about it, guys? How about we simply agree that a player, no matter what the situation, should take the best possible approach to a plate appearance that he can? If he comes up with men on first and third and walks, that's a success. The man behind him then has the bases loaded. And don't give me the bullshit about the table being set, that now there's no reason for him to stand up there and take pitches. Hey, if he walks, it's still a run, right? And isn't that the point? I know we all love the excitement of the big hit, but the big hit is a result of proper process, not changing the way you play the game because the situation is different.
Alright. I think I'm all out of vitriol now. You know, I was planning on doing another draft report today, but I think this has turned out long enough already. (Can I get someone in the back to help me out with a that's what she said?) So dig in.
Have a lovely day, all. I shall have a game thread up around, say, 5:00?
Oh, and just because I'm in such a rotten mood today (and also because I've now been watching Alice Cooper videos since grabbing one for a column yesterday), I bring you a bit of angry music to really get you in the mood to thrash some Pirates.
154 comments
|
recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
great
now we have a stav infection while trying to fight pirates, great!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
fresh fruits will keep the scurvy away
argh
by BirdsonFire on May 13, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
this is what our system can produce? Nick Stavinoha?
ALLEN FUCKING CRAIG ALREADY!
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
who would force us to play a IF in the outfield or have Duncan in right
sadly, i dont think there are many good options w/o mather healty/hitting
While Craig isn't a natural OF'er
he plays it in Memphis and he’s no worse defensively than Nick Stavinoha.
Craig goes to 3rd, Skip goes to RF, Thurston goes to 2B.
Holy hell, it’s like a real team with players playing where they are supposed to!!!!
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
hahah
yes well you know he wouldnt play an inning of 3b even if he did get called up, but i take your point
I just watched these two play a four-game series in Des Moines
Stavinoha is a horrible first baseman, defensively. The worst play he made last weekend was on Sunday. There was a pop foul back behind first base, in foul ground. I was sitting about twenty rows away from Stavi on this play, mind you. The ball’s trajectory put it for a landing about 20 feet from where the infield dirt ends, on the warning track. Stavinoha runs out, about ten feet from where the dirt ends and yells at the top of his lungs, “I GOT IT!” He looks up, discovers how badly he misjudged the ball, and stumbles, trying to correct. Too late, the ball landed right behind him on the track. It was embarassing.
I went into the weekend with little-to-no expectations for Craig the OFer, but I was pleasantly surprised. He tracked the ball pretty well off of the bat throughout the series, with one exception, which was a poor play on a shot to the wall. (I consider this the toughest play, but Craigh didn’t look any worse than Shorey who was a comedy of misplays in RF.) But, he also made a very nice diving play, robbing a double right on the left field foul line, smearing the line and kicking up chalk. It is my opinion that Craig is far superior to Stavinoha in the OF.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
bgh -- i meant to ask this over on FR -- with all the OF we have why is
SHOREY getting time in the OF?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I don't know...
Maybe they don’t want to rush any of the youngsters with an aggressive promotion? I think that Mather’s injury and Robinson’s promotion probably precipitated Shorey’s everyday status.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
They did "precipitate" it,
but they also forced the skipper’s hand.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I agree with Hardcore
Stavinoha has played nothing but 1st base this year. In fact it’s been back into last year that he has played any outfield. Craig make more sense.
Not to mention...
add another player to the 40 man, and use up an option on a guy that MAY only spend a week with the team in 2009
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Does it really matter?
Brett Wallace is the 3B of the future. If Allen Craig gets passed up by Joe Thurston and Brian Barden at age 24, what are we hoarding him for?
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it matters if we're talking about...
only a week. Craig will be a useful Major Leaguer IMO, and options aren’t something that should be thrown away, nor are 40 man roster spots…of course this all assumes that Craig won’t require protection from Rule 5 this fall.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
He's slumping pretty badly right now
.664 OPS
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I just can't handle the idea that our OF rotation
is
Chris Duncan
Colby Rasmus
Shane Robinson
Nick Stavinoha
Even with Rasmus, outside of Duncan there is ZERO power in that group and they’ll be making up 2/3rds of the OF for the next 10 days.
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Ankiel is due back...
next Thursday, and it seems he should be ready to go. That leaves seven games to muddle through with these guys. Not ideal, but not necessarily calling for drastic measures.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I'm not sure I see how promoting one of our slightly better than average
prospects as a drastic measure.
To each his own.
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
because it doesn't happen...
in a bubble, but has repercussions on the business side. I think it’s a fine line, and you and I happen to be on different sides.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
And this is why...
all those “when are we going to trade one of our OFers, like Ankiel?” comments are so off base. Our supposed plethora of depth isn’t all that great when none of the Memphis OFers are hitting worth a shit.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 13, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Without Ankiel
if players played their real positions, our OF depth is:
Chris Duncan
Colby Rasmus
Ryan Ludwick
Skip Schumaker
It just so happens that Ryan got hurt yesterday but we still have 3 MLB caliber OF’ers on the current 25 man roster and 6 MLB caliber 2Bmen as well.
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
so the solution is to never trade anyone, because we might need them after they're
gone? when would we be deep enough in the outfield to trade from strength?
i don’t think we should trade ankiel just for the sake of trading him. but we could and should do so if we were able to get a good player in an area of need (like the middle infield or starting pitching).
to put it in perspective, right now our team has three outfielders who could easily be worth 2 or more wins above replacement in the course of a whole season (ludwick, dunc, ankiel). rasmus has tremendous potential. as do several others (jay, for instance).
do we have ONE second baseman who is above replacement value? do we have ONE shortstop who is above replacement value? maybe yes, but it’s sure not clear to me at this point. our starting pitching is very thin as well. even without injuries, we were playing the “nick stavinohas” of the middle infield on a daily basis.
it doesn’t make sense to say that we must have so much outfield depth that we can sustain having ludwick, mather, AND ankiel become injured without having to resort to replacement level players like stavinoha or robinson, but to let the rest of the field work with replacement level players on a daily basis.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Craig's a third baseman
he could play right
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 13, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He plays LF for Memphis
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I blame danup also.
This was an inherently unclear statement, and one which clearly misled Todd Wellemeyer, who is known to be a twitterating Internetiliterati. He’s obviously reading this site on his laptop in the dugout. The offending quote:
Go Wellemeyer! Win the Battle of Who Could Regress.
Now, DanUp was unclear in this phrase as to what it meant to “win” this battle. Is it a battle TO regress and allow MORE homers? or a battle NOT to regress and continue to allow FEW homers?
Clearly the Todalion was confused. He saved up a finale that involved allowing two homers in one inning, just to ‘win’ this competition.
Come on, grad student! Make that prose sharper!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Assuming this is a reference to Ben Folds
and the lyrics “the Battle of Who Could Care Less” I have to agree with you. In fact, the song lyric makes it clear that the winner of said battle is the one who “cares less” the most (or cares least); therefore the Colonel, ever wanting to win battles as is his wont, naturally assumed that to win the Battle of Who Could Regress, one must regress the most (or give up home runs). So this is clearly Dan’s fault for encouraging Todd-a-Lion to suck last night.
For shame. Have you no sense of decency, Dan?
I blame myself.
Clearly something in his upbringing led to this, unless, maybe it is our whole education system that is to blame.
oh, that makes me sad, momup.
i have no doubt you did everything you could in raising dan.
me, i blame television. but the schools, yes, it could be the schools.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I love Ben Folds
right up to and through Songs for Silverman. The more recent effort than that (Way to Normal) was lacking – or maybe my tastes are changing, I don’t know.
the Pirates really deserve a thrashing after yesterday's debacle
and we deserve to be pissed about how we played, all around (well, APu, you are probably the exception). the mantra of having aggressive plate appearances is too simple of an idea… what happened to mixing that with some patience at the plate? I seem to recall we were very good at that at the beginning of ‘08… why should we change a good thing and adopt a useless philosophy and start hitting like the diamondbacks? sure, not everyone is putting up bad PAs (Rasmus, Duncan, and Thurston come to mind) but even Albert has been seen pressing at some points this season, that’s very un-Albert-like of him (but maybe it is creating more home runs?). I would really like to see better plate discipline, asap… as far as Welley goes, that’s another thing that I liked better about last season. he seemed WAY more aggressive in his pitching style (which makes me hope that he’s not actually injured somehow). Anyway, I could ramble like this for a very long while, but congrats to PK with getting away with planking a pirate last night
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions
Great point about fielder's indifference
Another example — we count stats even when some position player comes in to pitch in a blowout. Just last week the Reds brought in their SS Janish to pitch and he proceeded to give up five runs including a blast to Fielder. Why should this home run count, but Colby’s stolen base not?
Btw, position players pitching apparently drives Harrold Reynolds nuts. He couldn’t shut up about it despite the other in studio analysts explaining that it is stupid to waste your bullpen in a blowout loss. Reynolds was sure there must be somebody who need some work.
He must be the only one
because pretty much everyone I talk to loves when a position player comes in to pitch. One of my friends called me to alert me the Swisher was pitching earlier this season. I promptly paid attention to that game for the next inning.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
Harold Reynolds
should be the one looking for work, imo.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
In fairness to Shane O'Mack
He hit that ball on the screws. It was smoked to left field and Moss (who apparently went home to a nice rendition of Whatever Lola Wants) was playing him perfectly.
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 1:40 PM EDT reply actions
Boy RB.......
I wish I had some pictures of Ferris Wheels for you to sooth your soul.
I feel your pain.
Yeah, he (like the rest of us) needs it.

The thought that I have is that the season is over. And that everybody in the game; a fan, a coach, a player, a manager, front office, scouts...surrender. They say, "that's enough," especially after a game like this. But then Christmas comes, New Years, contracts are signed, trades are made, free agents are signed; and then baseball, like the rose beneath the April snow will force it's way to the front again. And we'll have the fever once more.
-Jack
dang
it’s even bluish purple
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree except,
I agree with almost all of what you said RB. However, I disagree about the bunting being as good as a line drive base hit. Of course, in a vacuum, the results are the same therefore they are equal. That being said, when you bunt, you limit your possibilities. You can basically have one of three outcomes.
1. Bunt base hit
2. Bunt into an out
3. Bunt, fielding error, extra bases.
With a normal swining approach you have much more potential to
1. Get into scoring position or
2. Hit a home run.
Now, this obviously comes with some qualifications. You have to think about the likeliness of the outcome. Bunts that include an error and extra bases are rare. However, doubles, triples and home runs are not rare. Thus, I think a full swing approach is much more appropriate with two outs, because after doing a risk reward analysis I would think it is worth the chance of having a more positive outcome.
The other qualification is the batter and where you are in the lineup. If Chris Duncan is up with two outs, I think bunting is stupid because he is more likely to get out attempting It and he is also able to put up a HR. If it is Chone Figgins, a bunt seems like a good option because the likely hood of him doing something better than that is small.
Finally, lineup position affects this. If you are hitting right before the pitcher, I would say bunt your way on and see what we can do. I hate having the pitcher lead off innings.
extra bases are rare on bunts for sure...
but in some situations a player has greater likelihood of REACHING BASE if he can lay down a decent bunt than if he is swinging away. Truthfully, and maybe it’s just me, I think some players should attempt bunt singles more often…particularly light-hitting lefty speedsters. I’m looking at you Thurston and Skip.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
yeah...
but less so than Skip and Thurston. Rasmus has some power and is a better hitter.
Edmonds put down a few bunt base hits back in the day.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Edmonds did it against the shift, though
When teams would shift him towards RF, he’d bunt one down the 3B line for the easy base hit.
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
probably true...
I watched very few games before this year…didn’t have cable. I still think some players should take more advantage of their speed, especially leading off, or when the defense is playing back.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
I just
want to see people on base when Albert bats. I don’t care how they get there.
Classic underachiever.
by spants on May 13, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like last night's awesome 1st 2 hitters!!
oh wait….
(note: i have no problem w/ skip vs RHP, but to lead him off vs LHP is insane)
FWIW
Skip really isn’t all that fast. Thurston and Ryan have much better footspeed. I think people think Skip is fast simply because he’s a major leaguer who’d 5 foot nothing and has little power, so he must be fast, otherwise how did he get here. I’m not labeling you, just people in general when they see a smallish player and just assume that he must be able to run at a high rate of speed.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
i think one of the best ways, though not often practiced, to make bunts work out favorably
would be to attempt them in unexpected places. Ankiel seems like a good candidate. no one will play him to bunt, the infield will be deep. he has decent speed. I’d recommend it in a circumstance where he’s just not likely to make a hit (say against a hard throwing lefty — randy johnson, for instance).z
i like the reminder about jimmy bunting.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Statement A
“So which one is it? Does a player see more or less hittable pitches with men on base? I go with choice A, personally; with the bases occupied, you force pitchers to either be less fine to avoid possibly making the situation worse, or, well, throw less strikes and make the situation worse.”
Isnt that why TLR wants them to be aggressive in that situation, because he also agrees with Stmt A, that a hitter will see more strikes? I agree with what you are saying, different situations call for different actions, but I believe you agreeing with Stmt A is exactly why TLR wants them to be aggressive.
The problem with that approach last night is that the pitcher was all over the place and “the approach” probably should have been modified.
OK, I'm confused...
I thought the Baron was saying that TLR promotes aggressiveness in those situations because you will see fewer strikes (i.e. you might not see another good pitch to hit, so jump on the first opportunity). And it seems like you’re arguing that TLR promotes aggressiveness in those situations because you’ll see more strikes (i.e. don’t be afraid to swing at a good pitch because you know they’ll be coming in the strike zone). So it seems to me that one of you is giving a correct representation of Tony’s thought process, and one is assigning the wrong argument to Tony.
by mattybobo on May 13, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That may be,
but it’s still wrong. In a 6 run game, you really should be looking for a fastball you can smoke and if you don’t get it, you should be taking at least one strike. This is even more apparent when the pitcher in question just walked two straight hitters and doesn’t seem to have his usual control and he’s only used to having to throw 10-15 pitches in an outing. The longer you can string him out in the ninth, the better opportunity you have for a big inning as he gets tired or forces his manager to go to a lesser reliever.
Your potential run while standing at the plate means nothing in the context of the situation. The only way you mean anything is if you don’t make an out. Hitting a grand slam, like it seemed Greene was trying to do, still leaves your team 2 runs short of tying the game. Working a walk there is nearly as good as hitting a granny — you extend the inning and allow the run-before-the-tying-run to get to the plate.
I disagree that hitters should be looking to hit the first pitch they see in that situation unless they’re sitting dead red on that pitch, and even then they should probably be taking at least one strike. Even a great hitter is going to make an out 65-70% of the time when they put the ball in play, so why not make him throw you a pitch that you will clobber 60% of the time? Flailing through sliders isn’t being aggressive, it’s being stupid — it’s like those three hitters took a look at Ankiel’s AB’s late and close from 2008 and modeled their behavior after his.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I agree that when the batter in-the-hole has to score, you need to be focusing on a good AB, not a 6-run HR
With Greene, though, every swing he takes looks like he is swinging for the upper deck. I don’t think that’s going to change.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Then he shouldn't be swinging
That’s kinda my point. He’s an all or nothing hitter, so he should be taking two strikes in that situation. Doesn’t Tony have a “take” sign or something? I guess he probably does, but since he wants players to be aggressive he wouldn’t dream of taking the bat out of Greene’s hands.
If that’s not going to change, then perhaps he’s just not going to make it as a big leaguer.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I agree 100% that he should be more patient
T-Greene is a strikeout machine and always has been one. That’s how he swings. I think that the “aggressiveness” philosophy should be tabled when it comes to him. They need him less aggressive and more selective and should be working on it with him. That situation last night was exhibit A as to why. I think we need to be careful, though, about making philosophical broad strokes based on players who are violent free swingers, like Greene. The point I didn’t make in my overly short two-sentence post is that Greene would have taken those swings with the bases empty or loaded. It’s his nature. I agree wholeheartedly that if he doesn’t make strides in his approach, he is not a big leaguer.
Let me be clear that I am a firm believer in selective PAs being a more effective approach to offense and with RB’s analysis to that effect, as well as yours. However, drawing conclusions based on three PAs on a Monday night in Pittsburgh where two of those were by guys that haven’t spent much time with the big club, is a bit hasty for my taste. I watched the games over the past couple/few weeks, too, and I recognize this is a larger problem than just these three. I just want to look up how PAs went for other batsmen, as well, and see if the positive outcomes outweigh the negative outcomes.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm not trying to judge Greene or Robinson
I judge Larue because he’s been around the block and should know better.
I agree that it would be hasty to judge those players based on the limited opportunities that they’ve had at this level, but you also have to look at their track records. Part of the reason that Greene has struggled up to this point in his career is that his plate discipline is horrible. It’s something that he needs to change in order to make a stride forward in his career and he hasn’t done that. Robinson has been a high-contact free swinger at the minor league level, but he still should know that he needs to work the count in that situation. Not doing so is poor discipline. Yes, he hit the ball hard, but with two outs you should be taking a strike.
I know that you know all of this, my point is that I’m not judging them based on two AB’s, I’m analyzing them by what they’ve done and what they’re track record is and trying to decide if they were selfishly swinging away last night or if they just don’t have the discipline to take a good at-bat in a late game situation. Regardless, neither situation really bodes well for them making it at this level.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Well put
Part of the reason that Greene has struggled up to this point in his career is that his plate discipline is horrible. It’s something that he needs to change in order to make a stride forward in his career and he hasn’t done that. Robinson has been a high-contact free swinger at the minor league level…
This sums up why I, too, am very skeptical as to their MLB futures.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
isn't the key that with the bases loaded you can afford to fall behind in the count?
a pitcher is less likely to follow up on an 0-2 count with two junk pitches when the bases are loaded, because he won’t want to risk walking in that run. he won’t paint the corners with as much liberty as he would with first base open.
basically, the loaded bases upend the usual balance of power in pitcher’s counts and hitter’s counts.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Absolutely
Less balls in the dirt and off the plate. There is nowhere to put the batter, so there is a smaller repertoire and target area for the pitcher.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The one in which the ball was never heard from again
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Great Picture
You can see Pujols just ready to destroy that pitch. I wonder if he sees pitches and just knows he’s going to knock the shit out of them?
The thought that I have is that the season is over. And that everybody in the game; a fan, a coach, a player, a manager, front office, scouts...surrender. They say, "that's enough," especially after a game like this. But then Christmas comes, New Years, contracts are signed, trades are made, free agents are signed; and then baseball, like the rose beneath the April snow will force it's way to the front again. And we'll have the fever once more.
-Jack
isn't that called the
Chuck Norris Effect?….. no, I’m sorry… that’s when the bad guys looks into Chuck Norris eyes.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 13, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
pujols is amazed that the cover stays on the ball
he thinks the ball must be doing ’roids
I'm amazed
that the ball is almost 1/3 of the way to the plate and Albert’s hips aren’t even squared yet! My GOB he’s so quick!
A friend of mine was analyzing his swing on old fashioned VHS tape slo mo (8 frames per second), and Albert squares his hips so fast that in on frame he went from something like the above position to his hips being completely squared to the ball. He’s a freak.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
PNC Park
I don’t know if Busch has added this to the stadium this year but PNC Park shows the pitchFX on the side boards where the pitchers pitch count normally is. After the pitch is thrown and before the next pitch, they tell you the velocity leaving hand, at the plate, the horizontal break and the vertical movement.
Groovey stuff, man.
by Hardcore Legend on May 13, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
That is insane
MAN why can’t broadcasts put that on the screen.
I agree
How awesome would it be to have that on the FS Midwest broadcast and on the Busch scoreboard?
I realize the FS Midwest is unlikely, since it (apparently) took a plea from Bernie to get OBP on the screen. Can you imagine The Mad Hungarian trying to learn what the numbers mean? I’m sure he would find fault with it, just like those who are for counting pitches. “When I played, we didn’t need to measure what a pitch did. We just knew it was good.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that's what she said
good stuff as usual Red. i’m too tired to be mad anymore. i’ve seen this act before & i’m not sure i have it in my to watch it unfold once again.
this is a reminder of what we are all watching. another great start slipping away & turning into a nightmare. i can’t get it outta my head.
i know, i know, it’s early. there’s a lot of baseball left to be played. the team can fight through it. but man,,,,i’m just so tried of watching them have to fight through everything those bastards GOB’s throw at them. nothing ever comes easy for the Cardinals. and i know, nothing in this world worth having comes easy. but at what point do you just say enough is enough? at what point does the none stop fighting become too much? i’m just so tired of fighting.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
i like bunnies
Az is so lucky.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
injury bug has us again
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't know
how many of you read Bird Land by Derrick Goold, but today’s read was pretty good. Albert is amazing.
Classic underachiever.
i read that earlier, dude is is alright.
i think they might just have to pick up that option on his contract.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
Saw Alice Cooper open for the Stones
a few years ago…GREAT SHOW!! It was at Churchill Downs, pretty wild place to see a concert!
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
This is an A+ awesome post
I love it. 100% correct and much needed.
Lineup per the PD
Skip Schumaker 2b
Shane Robinson rf
Albert Pujols 1b
Chris Duncan lf
Yadier Molina c
Colby Rasmus cf
Khalil Greene ss
Joe Thurston 3b
Joel Pineiro p
I’m not loving Sugar Shane in the 2 spot
not too bad of a lineup all things considered
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm guessing shane hits #2 to get him "started" in the big leagues, but i'd rather see razza there.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I think Shane should be hitting 9
Less pressure, plus hopefully generate as many possible baserunners for Albert as possible.
I'd like to see this
cobbler
razzle
mang
dunc
yada
thursty
spicoli
p
shades
p
shades
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
well crap
I would edit out that last part…
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Against a righty, tom s. is right
Why on earth wouldn’t you put two of your better OBP guys in front of Pujols? Rasmus should absolutely be batting second, based on skill. Getting Pujols PAs with runners on will be integral to weathering this injury storm. Robinson in the #2 slot does not accomplish this. I’d bat him #9, following the logic of getting people on in front of Pujols, because I hope he’ll be more effective than the pitcher (but I’m not certain he will).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah
I like robinson batting 9th
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
so i guess the fact that Rasmus actually gets on base in front of albert is lost on the skipper. /sigh
he can't get over the rookie thing
or something… not sure why he doesn’t just put rasmus there
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
where the fuck is barden?
i quit
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
exactly
beat ya
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on May 13, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Barden
Where is he? I understand we are facing a righty tonight, but Tony is basically selecting Robinson over Barden tonight, by putting Skip at 2B and TooShort in RF. I’ve got to think Barden at 3B, Thurston at 2B and Skip in RF is our better Defensive allignment, as well as Offensive opportunity.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on May 13, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
skip will not be playing the outfield
it would completely screw him up.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on May 13, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i just don't agree
the guy has played there for the last how many years? These are not beer-league softball players, they are pros, and I’ve got to think Schu can handle a few games in the OF.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on May 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
he can handle the outfield, I agree
he would get screwed up going back to second
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on May 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
if it would screw him up or not, but I think if they’re going to keep Skip at 2b, they need to stay committed to it until they determine that it’s a failure.
this is the season, for me...
I knew the team could win on all cylinders. I wanted to see if they could grind it out after some losing streaks and bad luck. But not TOO much bad luck, geez. Till they do that, I don’t know if this squad is for real. It’s like Schrödinger’s Redbirds with fewer cats.
Not that it matters this early, but the Cards are 1 up on the Reds and Brewers, and 1.5 up on the Cubs. (Naturally the “national” media thinks this is a comfortable lead.)
Thursday to Thursday:
pit, crew, crew, crew, on the seventh day Albert rested, small bears, small bears, small bears.
After that it’s KC, KC, KC, then up to old Miller for crew, crew, crew.
…so who thinks that’ll end well!
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
And the Brew Crew are playing well
It’s going to be a tough slog, without question, but, in the end, it will all come down to pitching. Hopefully, the rushing back of Carp has a positive rather than catastrophic result and we can play .500 over the next two weeks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
defense
It worries me, as well.
Though I admit it’s a relief that at least some of the bullpen anxieties have been assuaged. Kind of, thanks TLR for depleting those late-innings franklins.
The good news is this year it’s less likely we’ll be Comedy Central. Stay frosty, NL East, we’ll keep that wild card warm over here.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
this is baseball
I know better to try and predict this stuff
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
s'true
But this is what I’m waiting to see, before going on a, hmm, bender.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
with great risk comes great reward.
it’s daunting but if we turn it around and take both series against the brewers and against the cubs, we’ll be in a very nice spot.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on May 13, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
who knows
maybe the brew crew will go on a losing streak, they owe us some karma from last year
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Recipe for success?
What do you mean 2 AA players and a backup catcher isn’t a recipe for success? But John Mozeliak said we were good. He said it would be okay. He said he invented youth. He said he has an unlimited supply of AA players that will lead us all the way to the same finish as last year….4th place.
Timely hitting, timely hitting, timely hitting…we did NONE of it last year and we sucked last night. That’s what happens when you force youth onto the field because there is no other alternative within the organization to fill the holes. Don’t worry though, Bill D made an extra 100k this week on the interest of his money that he’s hoarding away…who needs a Ball Park village for an All Star game when you can build a softball field.
They seriously need to take a hatchet to these fucking puppet stringed management and build a club to win. There’s no reason…NO reason…not the Cubs, no the Brewers, not the Reds, Pirates or Astros…NO REASON why this division couldn’t be won with a 50 million a year payroll.
Suck my ass Billy D.
building a club to win
they have the second best record in the national league and are in first place in their division. i know there are a lot of games left, but if at some point ankiel, ludwick, glaus, etc are all healthy the lineup will be one of the best in baseball.
not to mention they will go down as the NL...
team of the decade. Only Boston can claim a better 2000’s than the Cards.
Momma’s made two posts in the two months she/he’s been here, and both predicted the Cards to finish 4th.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
notice how posts like this get dumped on here
and then there are no replies from the dumper
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Cards Talk
Is where you post this type of drivel.
by indakind on May 13, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
People who complain
about the payroll never seem to point to examples to who should have been signed or exactly how the money should have been allocated with market examples.
BEN SHEETS
i dun told ya already.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
This ownership group sucks
I hate these bastards who brought upon us one of the greatest eras of Cardinals baseball, by putting out an extremely competitive team annually.
Sports Illustrated is clearly on Bill Dewitts puppet strings, what with rating him the 3rd best owner in MLB.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
Was that stream-of-consciousness STLToday venting?
That’s what happens when you force youth onto the field because there is no other alternative within the organization to fill the holes.
Rasmus with men on: .372/.417/.488/.905
Rasmus with RISP: .385/.393/.500
Joe Thuston (he of 63 MLB PAs before this year) with RISP: .346/.452/.385/.952
Brian Barden (he of 84 MLB PAs before this year) with men on: .286/.360/.286/.646
Maybe you meant something else by “timely hitting” from our “youth?”
As for the club doing “NONE” of the “timely hitting” last season. Our .282 BA with runners on was the fifth-best in all of baseball and our .276 BA with RISP was 8th highest in all of baseball. To top it off, our .276 BA with RISP and 2 outs was the best in the majors.
Your statment “on other alternative within the organization to fill holes,” I have no idea what on God’s green earth you are talking about. “Within the organization” inherently means minor league players. Every franchise in MLB would be in the same situation if two of their starting outfielders went to the DL. Furthermore, Tyler Greene was called up when Khalil Greene couldn’t play due to injury and after Brendan Ryan went to the DL. Again, every other franchise in baseball would call up a player from their minor league system if their starter were out and then the backup went down.
This is a baseless rant. I understand your frustration with injuries. I share them. But blaming ownership for the fact that Troy Glaus injured his shoulder, Brendan Ryan strained his hamstring, and Ryan Ludwick strained his hamstring is ludicrous.
Furthermore, our youth on the staff has done very well. Motte has pitched extremely well after his Opening Week problems. Perez has been very effective. Mitchell Boggs has pitched well, too, since being thrown in the MLB fire.
If you have a legitimate beef, then make your argument. Don’t sling this slop with nothing to back it up.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Timely hitting isn't a skill
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on May 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
mommafailed
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on May 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
if you're this concerned about winning the division while we are IN FACT
winning the division, should we be concerned about your health if we slip into, say, second place?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
It's going to be a rough stretch
Between the injuries and struggling starters, it’s not going to be a fun time. We’ve only got a one game lead on Cincy and Milwaukee, and the Cubbies are just 1 1/2 back. Luddy’s injury could not have come at a worse time.
We’ll just have to wait and see, and that sounds not-so-good. I’ll be having my puke bag sit next to me for a few games (just in case).
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
you really have your mind made up about this
eh?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If Carp comes back and is healthy, we'll be OK.
it’s a tough division, but don’t hang your head just yet.
+1
Let’s wait until we actually have a losing record before we start puking.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on May 13, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
are we not in first place?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
this analsysis is kinda tired and rage driven...
one of the reason i use websites like this is cuz they tend to be more user based than newspapers (in that they give the readers what they want)…dunno about all of you guys…but i’d rather just here analysis not rage
it’s a long season…don’t give yourself a heart attack in may b/c we’ve had our first rough patch…
talk to me at the all star break with your rage…then at least it might be deserved rage
I can't speak for the whole group...
but I don’t have a problem with this post. It was a good analysis of a fundamental problem in our hitters’ (perhaps manager’s) approach. Maybe that’s just because I agree with RB on all points.
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
Agree
Nothing wrong with this post. I agree wholeheartedly with RB’s point about defensive indifference as well. It’s pointless.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on May 13, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
When can people finally start living in the moment in baseball.
Yeah, the season is long, but you don’t have to wait till late in the season to give a shit.
did you read the article?
It was rage at stupid decisions. Which is always appreciated.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
We need a hero
We need a hero. I am hoping we find one by the end of the night. Hopefully someone strong and fast. With our upcoming schedule he needs to be fresh for the fight.
Stat Whore
You think it'll take a superman?
Or are you thinking more of a fiery steed type?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I disagree
Where’s the street-wise Hercules?
Or does he have a no-trade clause?
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
sadly
i think he’s suspended.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
too much testosterone, huh
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I didn't like when Greene bunted w/ 2 outs and welly on deck.
I don’t think it really improves his chances of getting on base bunting rather than swinging, and in this case you definitely choose the method of getting on base that can be the most productive. If the pitcher doesn’t want to throw you strikes, then take a walk, but if the pitcher throws a hittable pitch it’s better to swing and potentially get an XBH. Welly may sneak one through the infield and Greene could score from second if he hits a double, but I doubt Welly will drive on into the gap that allows Greene to score from second.
To be fair, Greene could always swipe a base, but we all know that if Greene is standing on first when Welly is at the plate they aren’t going to risk having the pitcher lead off the inning.
Bottom line, some gain from not bunting, almost no benefit. Even if the defense it totally not expecting it I’ve seen it fail all the time.
instead of hitting.
i know I’m just going to have to deal w/ people who don’t understand what I’m trying to say because I did such a poor job of it. Just bracing for it.
On a positive note...
Rasmus looks like the real deal. All of his plate discipline stats are above average, he looks like he is an excellent defender, and even though the power isn’t there at all yet, he is still managing to be decent hitter.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
I think we'll see plenty of pop from him this season
12-15 HR’s wouldn’t be bad at all.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
by RunninRedbird on May 13, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone else excited for the Hockey game tonight.
I haven’t given up on the Cards, but it just feels like something special is going to happen in that game.
Zimmerman
0-3 with 2 BB’s, in the 9th. The streak ends at 30
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...and I'm wanting an Allen Craig call-up!
dang
was rooting for the guy
4B - beer baseball bands blog
rocknroll ain't noise pollution
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 13, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
On not making an out
I guess it depends upon how one defines success. Not hitting into a double play is also, to a degree, a success. However, simply saying not making an out is an optimal result defies the underlying theory of OPS. I think the real question to be asked: is swinging at a suboptimal pitch (ie, one not out of the strike zone) better than trying to draw the walk? I think the answer to that is a lot closer to “it depends” then suggested by what you write.
that seems like a very unlikely set of circumstances
but i think you are talking about a very small sample of PA’s. The basic BABIP for any one hitter indicates that a ball put in play has a 30-35% chance of not making an out. and that’s on all pitches including excellent ones. the babip on out-of-zone pitches has got to be much lower, except for a handful of remarkable out-of-zone hitters.
i don’t know the exact BABIP on OOZ pitches, but multiplying that BABIP times the run expectancy of a hit . . . . There have to be very few hitters who can so reliably get an extra-base hit on an OOZ pitch to make that make sense. The run expectancy of a homer is what? like 1.44? Lets imagine a ridiculously good hitter hits 20% of all OOZ pitches out of the park, your run expectancy would still be .288. Consider that against the run expectancy of a reasonably sure walk.
I say this thinking that we are talking about taking a pitch with three balls in the count. whatever benefit of swinging at the OOZ pitch in a pitcher’s count has to be completely nullified by the likelihood that working the count is going to make you more likely to see a better pitch later in the count.
you’d really have to have a sick hitter who specialized in hitting slightly outside the zone pitches out of the park, or a crazy power hitter with a huge uppercut swing that digs for low balls and slams them out of the park all the time to make that make sense. but for 99% of players, i think RB is right.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I agree
if the premise is, say, 3 balls and a strike. Or three balls and no strikes. But what if the count is, say, 1-2 or 2-2? Or even 1-1? Maybe the disagreement here is that there is an assumption that the reliever is off the rails, and the only thing preventing the walk is swinging at a pitch. Eeven if true, and we get 1 or 2 batters who walk, either the pitcher will get yanked or he’ll start throwing strikes. SOMEONE will have to start swinging because they will not walk in 6 runs.
Yes, someone will have to start swinging
but I’m old school enough to agree that, unless you are Albert or someone with similar talent, you should NEVER swing at the first pitch when your team is down multiple runs late, ESPECIALLY, when the opposing pitcher has just walked the previous two batters.
Sadly, for me at least, it seems that taking until you have at least one strike has gone the way of catching fly balls with both hands!
by ArkansasTravs on May 13, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
like i said, if you're in a pitcher's count, you should take the pitch -- taking a ball makes one more
likely to see actual good strikes, right? why swing at an OOZ pitch on 1-2? you’re going to likely see a better pitch at 2-2.
again, there are probably weird pitcher-batter matchups that are exceptions to this, but i doubt that as a general rule it makes sense to swing at a ball.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
uh
talk about crazy. Come talk to me when our 20 rookies this season have either a) sub 5 era b) hit above .250.
It’s a pretty low threshold to hold them to…and 90% of our illustrious rookies won’t even make this cut. The point is, the guys on the field are not BIG LEAGUE players. They are not ready. Most of them probably never will be. Colby, okay. Brett Wallace eventually. Thurston and Barden and Greene…they will become distant names of the past sooner than later…and these are the folks that John M protected so vigorously…do I need to remind you? Remind you of a team that was in contention at the allstar break and got nothing to bolster the lineup from the front office. Instead the corporate motto was we’re not going to sacrifice our youth/ farm system for the sake of making a move. Well JM didn’t. He protected them alright…and look at them go.
As for the timely hitting, throw all the stats you want…we won 83 fucking games you asstard. We finished 4th. We didn’t have the talent to win…and still don’t.

by 






















